Reverend Ben (0s): Hello. And welcome. Thank you for joining us here. Our podcast today in Elim church in Swanley, you are joining myself. Reverend Ben Cooper and lovely leya. Today. We are going to be discussing all things, fluffy, all things, fluffy and lovely for Jesus. It's the end of the day. We've been speaking all day. We've been at work, but we're hearing the Podcast in the studio. We just want to say thank you for listening to everything we do. Please share everything out far and wide. And we welcome layer.
Leya (31s): I just want to point out that we are going to be having a really nice conversation tonight. It's gonna be about humour in Christianity Love versus Control all. And there are some children playing in the background. I can hear them outside the door, crying in the sunshine.
Reverend Ben (52s): Yes, I we're in the park. Yeah, Sunday's out where, yeah, it was a time 25 past five sun is out shining through the window there and we are living the dream. Leya (1m 3s): Just like, you know, we've had our shackles removed. They've had their shackles. Reverend Ben (1m 8s): Oh, good to know what there's a song. I don't know. I reckon a few people. I know this song, my shackles are gone. I'm free. I'm free. I am free. I won't sing it. God and got the voice for it today, but it's a real traditional song. There must be people listening to this show right now that know that song. My shackles are gone. Now our spirit it's free. It's a cracking song. Yeah. Hallelujah. Jesus. Leya (1m 32s): Well, that's what we're going to talk about tonight really? Because I, I think people can get, although it's really, really, really, really serious that we should concentrate on the sacrifice that Jesus made that bad. Reverend Ben (1m 46s): John three 16. Yeah, exactly. That really is important. But Leya (1m 51s): I do think personally that we can get a bit weighed down in that there are two sides to our life. And then the other side of our life is the joy of the Lord, Reverend Ben (2m 3s): Rarely on the part in there and kind of like just interrupt quite a shy person. So I dunno. Right. I forgot that. Leya (2m 12s): Have you got forgotten to press record again? Reverend Ben (2m 15s): No, we're okay. We're good. Yeah, that was all of the state have today. It's been funny for Viva started, got the press release. Leya (2m 24s): I was thinking, is this going to be a good thing to do a podcast on the last week I was thinking, is this a good thing to do a Podcast on our people gonna think I'm being really a Reverend Reverend Ben (2m 33s): No, no, no. Leya (2m 37s): Straight away. Ha. And I literally did it really. Yeah, Reverend Ben (2m 42s): No, he, you know what, obviously the world that I come from preaching and teaching and all that, there is, there's a real serious side of it. You know, the message, that message is our approach. And they're not always happy clappy, you know, they can be quiet, they can be quite heavy. But the other side to that, the joy of the Lord is my strength. Yeah. It's really important. Understand that joy is good. And especially where we sit in the world of code at the moment, it's really important. And some of the people we talk to are really down and worried in a and I get that, you know, anxious moments and all that, but we've got to remember, we got up, we got encourage one another. The joy of the Lord is my strength. That joy is powerful. We have the joy of God. We have the power of the Holy spirit. We are anointed. We are blessed and all that sort of stuff that we fully understand, but we also gotta be careful what you're talking about joy, and you're not, we're not being irreverent. We're not being unholy. You know, it's not, it's part of a part and parcel, isn't it? I know there's a time in church where we're really serious and we're really, really seeking him and that's that's right. But there is also a time, you know, joy. Leya (3m 48s): There's a time to weep and there's a time to laugh. She's in the world is the time to mourn. And there's a time to dance. As we said earlier, that's the goal is the answer is, yeah, please, please Reverend Ben (3m 59s): Clean before the Lord naked King David yet the scripture. Leya (4m 4s): Goodness man. Yeah. I hope it was walk. And his wife said, what are you doing? Reverend Ben (4m 7s): He said, I'll be a fall for Christ. I'm going to dance naked. Yeah. It's serious. I'm not messing about that scripture that as a hundred percent David danced before the Lord and it just went absolutely crazy. That's amazing. He got his flags out and he waved it. Any thoughts? That Anais was wild for the day. Leya (4m 28s): Oh, I love that. I love that. See so many people I think in other churches that I've. I know, I know, I know. I know. I know. I know, but I, I have been to other churches and christenings and it is all about like, Control through, you mentioned the word and I'm sorry, I'm getting it, get it over and done with it's all about Control. It really is Reverend Ben (4m 55s): It's. Yeah. Leya (4m 56s): But I do feel, you know, the IO with that to Jesus for what he did for me, but also I owe it to laugh and show joy. Yeah. And be a child because I am a child of God. And at the end of the day, what father doesn't find so much joy in their own children. A hundred percent. So definitely. Oh, walk down the street and I see kids on their bikes acting like their, you know, evil Knievel. Reverend Ben (5m 23s): Yeah. We're doing way to do it. Yeah. Leya (5m 25s): Yeah. And I'm like that little child thinks that he's the best, the best. And he's only three. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So what must God think of me? Reverend Ben (5m 36s): God loves us unconditionally. It's really important. What you're talking about to get joy in our spirit of God, to backpedal a minute broken about Control and then we get into religion and we can get really bogged down. And we have over the years where we can get weighed down where, you know, we're too frightened to be happy. You got to be careful. Don't people that are happy Understanding. And obviously people and brothers and sisters know that where we're from the world of it, the Pentecostal world Leya (6m 5s): Happy clappy. One always swinging from the chandelier. Reverend Ben (6m 10s): The way to come in and roller skates is like Starlight express in church stops and the Pentecostal churches roller skates. Leya (6m 20s): The first time I came in, you were in a homeless girl up. It was amazing, Reverend Ben (6m 24s): Absolutely bananas for you to do for Jesus. But it's really important that joy is the top of our agenda because we all live in, in very hard. In times, we get that. We understand that sometimes of being preached and what we teach and what we look at are very hard. And we have to look really carefully at the world. And we talk about the antichrist. So there's a lot of heavy, heavy stuff, and we've really got to encourage each other as well. I have a bit of a laugh just to, just to laugh because the laughter is good for the salmon. Leya (6m 53s): Good. Love to me. So that's okay. Reverend Ben (6m 56s): It's medicine. Laughter is medicine. It releases what it released his and all of that. The big one. Leya (7m 3s): Well that's natural chemicals that God put inside your beautiful body. Gosh, it releases it. The creation. No, we're not. We're not. We're sticking with Love. We are not doing the whole universe tonight. Okay. Really, really important. I have a question. Reverend Ben (7m 20s): Is it deep theological stuff? No. Leya (7m 23s): The mice Prater who did mice pray to Reverend Ben (7m 27s): Who? To my surprise. They pray to, I don't know who the mice pray to. Jesus. Jesus, and gosh, gosh, sorry. Good. He's scared. He's scared Leya (7m 38s): And have jokes for you. So I'll keep them, I'll keep them to a minimum and we'll keep going to go. But one of the things are our feeling is that I am, because you know my story, if you've lived some of the other Podcast that you've been involved in, I'm so new. So new to Christ. I am filled with so much joy at the moment. That's good. I'm bouncing off the walls, Reverend Ben (8m 2s): The thing. And that's really, that's really important to understand that as someone that is come in from the world and we know what I mean from that, without being tied with the religious brush, you ain't got to shake any drops off. He ain't gotta shake in the robotic. We ain't got deprogram you from religious. Talk to them that you just completely bang straight in, straight in. And, and that, that might sound a bit strange to people listening. Well, if you are in church and you are a born again, believer why in the past are very happy. Well, I am very happy, but what, what it means is we, we get bogged down on congregations, get bogged down with trying to live up to the religious bar. That is just impossible. That's the journey. That's the truth. You know, we can't make the bar when we can't do that. You know, Christ Christ set, the bar that's done, it's finished. He died one sacrifice once. And for all. So for yourself, come in, come in out of a straight out of the world, straight into Entergy's Australian, their Christianity, you are not tired with it. And that is really, it's really a great to know. Leya (9m 8s): Yeah, we've discussed that before. I'm not sure Reverend Ben (9m 11s): You're not tied with the religious stuff. Leya (9m 12s): Sometimes. I wonder if people trust the fact that I'm so happy about it, my life and so happy about the change in my life. And maybe they think that I'm not taking into light, the sacrifice that was made for me, but Oh my gosh, I feel that's so deep. Reverend Ben (9m 30s): You know, we know Love Jesus. We know, we know you love Jesus. We know you're born again. We know that you've made a commitment. You repent. We know all that stuff. We get all that. Leya (9m 40s): But if somebody new was coming into this church and they saw everybody seriously, deeply in prayer, they might think that that's all that faith and Christianity is about Reverend Ben (9m 51s): It could well do. And that's what religion does. And if you go to other different denominations, kava, kava, you speak different denominations. You will find yourself swinging and swinging that and jumped through to jump through it. S and it becomes, I went to a funeral of a really good friend of mine. It was a priest. And I gotta be honest up front of the living daylights out of me. Why? Because of the lack of a ritual that it went for, they all came in with great, big, long hats, all of that singing in the class swinging. Yeah, I know. No. And I'm sitting there thinking, wow, this is like, <inaudible>. Yeah. And I'm thinking this, what would the world think if they see all this? Because it was very, there was like, there was singing in Latin and all that, and I'll think, well, wait a minute. I don't even know much English, you know, singing in Latin, you know, swinging that about all of that. And you're thinking, well, this is really heavy. It's really heavy going. Yeah. Yeah. Leya (10m 54s): That's what I'm trying to get at really. Is it a newer person coming into it may feel it's completely alien and not something that they can make us. Reverend Ben (11m 3s): No, because church has bred a culture that isn't actually really real. Leya (11m 8s): The whole notion. Some people would believe that the whole notion of repentance is about guilt, but actually it's about free and easy. Reverend Ben (11m 18s): It's free yourself. It's freedom. It's about the enemy, right? Okay. Let's take this little story. Okay. Someone gets caught in an addiction. No one knows what the addiction is to get that again. I'm with them. They become born again, filter the spirit. They don't really talk about the addiction. And what happens is the enemy uses that. And that turns into guilt. He makes you feel guilty, but Christ I mate, the Bible says he wrote of the Bible to the father. The son Leya (11m 44s): Sit in somewhere when I dust to shell. Reverend Ben (11m 47s): No, there is now no condemnation for those that are in Christ. Jesus. So you're free. We are free. But what enemy does, he uses that? And he, the, the site let's say secret's in whatever it is. Yeah. He uses that to make us feel guilty. Christ can never doubt on the side of town. You can't laugh. You can't laugh. No, you, for everybody in this church knew what you was really up to or that's where the guilt comes in. Yeah. But the Bible says there is now no condemnation for those that are in Christ. Jesus. So I am free. Okay. Leya (12m 21s): Of course. I'm free, baby. We're free. That's why I'm so joyful. And it don't mean that I'm constantly walking around, laughing at people and stuff like that. That's not what I'm talking about. When I talk about him, it's about the bubble enjoy with inside you. Yeah. Yeah. Reverend Ben (12m 37s): You've got freedom. You recognize that. Leya (12m 39s): Or then the pure love that is FFS with me. That's how I feel. I feel like that is something that we need to bring out. Reverend Ben (12m 48s): The thing is as well about church life is people move about to different churches purely because, and also because they get bruised. So when you get bruised from one place to another place and this didn't happen and that didn't happen and you got rejected and this, you almost have the joy pushed out of you and then suddenly, and then you're printing really hard Leya (13m 9s): Because you're forced into a mold and they're trying to mold you're in the shape. Jesus' shape mold is the church shape mold. It's it's it's mold. I'm not trying to say that one church is better than in other. I've said that before that I believe that I have been to churches where it is about Control. And one thing that people say to me is you're a Bible basher and one personal say to me, that's brilliant. And I think, Oh, Love yeah, that's fantastic. Another personal site I can't get into God because of all of the things or the things that the churches have done talking about Wars, talking about, Control talking about centuries and centuries and making people feel terrible and or the deaths that have come as a result of it, nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Our saviour is to do a religion, is to do Reverend Ben (14m 0s): Sort of stuff. So to be joyful, it doesn't mean to say that we're not being a Reverend and we don't respect. And we don't follow what the word says on that side of things, on the serious side of it and all that. You know, it's really important that to understand that joy is powerful because joy breaks, joy breaks, fare, you know, laughter is good for your soul. It's good for your body. It's good for your wellbeing, but we're living in a nation that is so heavily pressed at the moment and the water, the side of breath. And you're just trying to find a joy moment. You're trying to find that joy point. And it's really important to understand that Christianity AE is powerful. It's life changing, but also we know the spiritual side of that as well. The implications of, of a tax and all that. But running along with that, the joy of the Lord is my strength to find peace, to find a place where you can sit and rest with, with Christ and just be, and the Bible says, be still and know that I'm gone. It's really important to understand that a lot, what Les was saying that is, someone comes in off the streets, they come straight in and see people pray in and all that. It could be a little bit daunting at first, depending if you're speaking in tongues and you've got heavenly language going on, Oh, hang on a moment. Leya (15m 14s): The ones got serious faces on their hands in the air. And you're like, this is alien and it's serious. And it's freaking me out. And that's what happened. That's what happened. That is what happened. Reverend Ben (15m 27s): The church has bred itself and made a culture that looked very strange. No, the Bible says that we are a peculiar people, but what we've got to be careful of is that we don't push people away because we look very strange and way. Leya (15m 41s): Yeah, we did. Yeah. But I would love to be wacky for Jesus. Reverend Ben (15m 46s): Let me correct. You all. Yeah. Leya (15m 52s): The thing is I'll sing and sing and dance with Jesus all the time. And I tell people and I'm proud of it. And I'm not ashamed to say that I have no shame for my love or my joy for Jesus. Reverend Ben (16m 2s): Because when you talk about joy, when, when you actually start to get joyful and you start to get in that position, fear just disappears. And you realize that it goes well. Leya (16m 12s): Is that awesome? Awesome quote from the Bible about no. Yeah. It was one of the first ones when the pandemic started it and it was about fear and perfect. Love Reverend Ben (16m 25s): Are you all token about the gospel of John talking about John? Perfect love. Casts out all fear. Yeah. Leya (16m 33s): Yeah. Perfect. Love can only bring you joy in it. Reverend Ben (16m 35s): I think Love so when you look at that text, perfect love casts out. All fear. The love of God, love the father, the son, the Holy spirit. It is so perfect. It pushes fare out the light. And we need to be careful with that because people go in it. People might say, well, I'm really fearful. Does that mean that I don't know. And I don't experience a love of God. No, that's not that that's not that because of that, you can lean into him. You've got to lean into Jesus. You got to lean into Christ. And what's really important is as we're talking about joy, we ain't going to give it no weight tonight, but, but fear runs very close with faith. It does because it's a natural control and the enemy uses the fear. But as strong as fear is, joy is as powerful because the scripture says the joy of the Lord is my strength, strength. So enjoy life in Christ in rest in peace. There is a strength that will just put fare underneath your feet, where it should sit. Leya (17m 38s): He wants to be part of any kind of who would, how would she man, a B part of any kind of faith or religion or anything that didn't bring them joy in? All it was about was controlled in. Why would they follow Jesus to read this really good? I can't really name of the book now, but they were talking about actual humour in the Bible. And they were saying that actually, when Jesus gave one at the wedding, turn them into one. Do you think everybody sat back and went or no? Jesus. Speaker 2 (18m 10s): Yeah. Wow. This is what she goes. Come on, come on. Leya (18m 17s): How many came in to your house? And she had turned, the tap bought were in Prosecco. Do you think you would be come to mind, installed a top for me to know the idea of the Planck in the eye as well? He was actually talking literally. Yeah. So at the time people would have found that really funny that that would have been. Reverend Ben (18m 37s): So when Christ done a lot of his teachings, it used stories and people would relate to the stories. And we know that there has to be because, you know, without going into it, there, there was times when there was humor, there was times in the Bible where you will find that there was joy at times in there. And what we've got to be careful of is, is that we don't look at Christianity and have that image of it stuck in the piousness, the piousness and the Island. And then you get the dogma. Then you're getting a fight in and in a corridor, in, and, and theological debates, Leya (19m 16s): Sort of looking back as stories that could be metaphors or fables. But actually when he was given the sermon on the Mount, he was talking about their lives. Reverend Ben (19m 27s): That's right. I often wonder about the Pharisees in the sector, says if they have read a Joyce bone in their body, what is a Pharisee? Oh, come on, come on. They were teachers, teachers of the law. They was, there was in a real hierarchy system. They was part of the synagogue. They was the top cheeses. They was the law givers. Those, the writers are the law. That was the scholars. I was the well educated, the well oiled, you know, the Pharisees and Sadducees. They loved the sound of their own voice. They would stand in pulpits today in those very well spoken. They had, they could hold themselves very well. And they looked like everything. Sorry. Leya (20m 12s): Some of the things that society is struggling with probably for the last hundred years has been the idea of being caught in a machine, right? Yeah. Reverend Ben (20m 21s): The church machine just Love Leya (20m 23s): As a machine society's expectations of being part of the machine Reverend Ben (20m 27s): The same again, get the raising the bar. Leya (20m 30s): It's Ben part of the machine money as being part of the machine, having a job, keeping up with the Joneses society's expectations of how to behave. And the thing about Jesus says he sets us free from that machine. Reverend Ben (20m 43s): He sets us free from all systems. All good, all fair, all down. Leya (20m 48s): And how does he do it? Cause he Love Reverend Ben (20m 51s): John three 16 for God. So loved the world. So in love, I love the is undescribable. I love without strings attached, no strings attached in Jesus, you know, forgiveness. How many times should I forgive seven 17, endless, endless, endless. You know, the, the joy of the Lord is our strength. It's really important to understand that that joy has powerful joys changes our, our emotions, our focus, you know, the world at the moment is, is so heavy at the moment. There's so much heaviness going on, you know, even a, in the corporate world of different places where we work and we go into everyday, the corporate world is very heavy at the moment. And people have got demands, putting the mama, mr. Working from home, or going back into work, traveling, commuting, you know, the fear. There's a lot of, of heavy stuff. And we got to remember that joy changes everything or the rules Leya (21m 48s): Of the stipulations at the moment. Do you know that, you know, this week they've made dancing in public places, illegal you can't Love you can Love I'm serious. Reverend Ben (22m 2s): Yeah. It's this, it's this straight out of number 10, number 10 with the blonde dead eye care worker. You're joking. Leya (22m 12s): They have made dancing illegal in public places. Reverend Ben (22m 16s): I know I'm dumb because you've danced with another person Leya (22m 19s): And you might give them COVID or, I mean, obviously you've got a social distance. I'm not saying people shouldn't social media. Reverend Ben (22m 27s): No, no. You've got to keep the measures. We understand the measures. We're happy with the measures. Yeah. But come on. So I can dance on their own. You can dance on your eyes. So if I was to go down as day with the mask and dance, as long as I'm to me as apart, I'll get away of it. Yeah. Leya (22m 40s): But if you go and dance, if you dance in a place with music above 86 decibels. Reverend Ben (22m 46s): Wow. So they're actually putting the limit now on the, on the volume, on the loud, how much control the decibels Leya (22m 53s): Expression? I mean, I know it's not the Bible, but Shakespeare said his music be the food of love play on that's. Right. We're talking about Love and I love Shakespeare. Reverend Ben (23m 2s): Hey, see what you see what you see happening when need to be very careful where in the UK, you know, we're all for their social measures. We're all for that. And, you know, respect and protect and all that. We understand all that. But then it feels like we're going into an area of military. Control like a real heavy dictatorship. Like when you talk about North Korea, about how that gently, gently, gently Leya (23m 25s): The economy go in both. Reverend Ben (23m 29s): So I can't dance on their way to the hole in the wall. When I save the paycheck. No, can't do that. You can't do that sandbox, dirty Oakey cocaine. Can't do none of it. You can do on your own, do in your own, in your house. Absolutely. More and more crackers as we told them. Leya (23m 47s): Yeah. But this is what I'm talking about is to control is the control that we're living in. And there's only in my life. There's only one thing that can stop that. Control. And that's me leaning into Jesus and seeking the love of God as a joy in my life to make this balance, because you've got to have balance. And if you haven't got the balance, it's like you were talking about in a sermon last week about structure, you've got to have a certain amount of structure, but you've got to have a certain amount of freedom. Otherwise we're just rolling. Reverend Ben (24m 14s): That's right. That's where our, I am probably the worst one for that. And not having structure because I was brought up with so much structure in the ministry. There was no freedom. So now I've let it the other way. The, almost the free for all. Yeah. Jesus loves us. Let's do it. We want to take a chance on it. Did. I mean, by now starting Leya (24m 34s): One of the, I know you don't like to know this, but you're also one of the kindest, nicest people, the pair of you and Chris, the, or you will do anything for anybody because you haven't got constraints. And the moment about the Love and when people come in to this specific church, I can eat, talk about this specific church. Cause it's my church that I go to everybody. I mean, when, when you first walk in, before the service starts, everybody's just smiling. Everybody is just, hello, welcome. Hello. Welcome. At the end of the service, everybody has used to hug each other and say, hello, how are you blessing? Or, you know, uncle Tom, sorry, tough pastor to pastor at someone's funeral. There was people wearing white culture because they wear and beautiful colors because for them <inaudible> to be with the Lord. You know what I mean? Goes home colon. Yeah. So it's not traditionally, it's not about an oppressive stamp of God pushing down on, you know? Cause when you, it's not about old Testament. Reverend Ben (25m 42s): When you look at Christ, when he called the 12, he said, come and follow me. So when you're following him, you're not under any law. That was, that was now to the cross. When you follow Jesus, you are a disciple and who the son sets free is free. Indeed. So freedom is key in Christianity, but then all of a sudden everything happens. And some of you find yourself in, in a legalistic church that is so regimented that you can't even smile because that's not biblical. You can't. If you become like frozen, then as time goes by and generations change in religious world, come in and it changes everything. So we'd got to be really careful as believers to keep joy, keep Joe in our hearts, baby, because we are free. And yet of course there are heavy times. There are all sorts of things breaking loose all, all day long. You know that that is what satanic oppression is. But above all of that, they know the joy of the Lord is my strength. So when I know who Christ is and when, when I realized that I am washed in the blood of Jesus and he died on the cross for me and his love is unconditional. And yeah, there might be problems breaking out in the house here, there, and everywhere work issues. There might be debt problems. It might be all sorts of things, but above it, we've got to just try and press into joy because joy is powerful. Joy changes, the human emotion. You know, we, we gotta be careful that we don't live all the time in religion. Religion is, you know, a lot of Lazarus, you know, it's dead, it's finished it, it smells, religion smells. It does. And it needs, it needs adjusting and changing, but joy is powerful. And then you talking about, Control going to be careful with this is Control and structure. His structure is really important because where do we see structure first in Genesis? God said, let there be. And there was, so there was a process, a structured process for the power of speech, for the power of speech. So when you look at, when you look at religious Control, it tells you, you can't when you look up structure and we've God, it tells you, you can. Amen. So there is a difference. So there is a, there is a difference and I fully understand how it is important to have a structure and the plan, but that can't go above what God has for us. Cause the Bible says in Jeremiah 29, verse 11, just the fruit one a little bit further, it says for on our plan for our note, the plans are had for you declares the Lord plans to give you a hope in the future, not to hide from it, hope and a future plan for you to prosper, blah, blah, blah. But then he says, if you follow me, blah, blah, blah, that's my Bible. Jesus said, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, he said, yeah, but the key to that text, right, is that when he says, when you follow me with all your heart, yeah. So it's, it's a heart. Your heart is your heart. It's the inner most being of your body, the power of, of the heart, you know, the inner us. And we have to go Leya (28m 50s): Complete sole. And the human's complete sale is made up of all of the once and then the needs and the insecurities. But also it's made up of all the joy to laughter and the care of love. And the brevity is made up in all of the silly, stupid things we do as well as all of those stupid and silly things that we do are about Jesus or I would done in just a really lighthearted, funny, stupid, silly way. Reverend Ben (29m 23s): That's right. Definitely. Leya (29m 25s): Father doesn't find joy in their kid. Ben a really stupid, silly little thing coming up with stupid, silly little comments. Do you know what I mean? And how can you have hope in a world that doesn't have Love in it doesn't have joy in it. What is there to hope for if there's no joy in it Reverend Ben (29m 43s): That that, that would hope changes everything. And then hope is very powerful. You know, you go for used to go into Hebrews 11, you know, faith as the substance of things hoped for. So it's really, really important that we're hoping right now that faith has the substance of old things that we are hoping for. It's our hope is powerful. Joy is powerful. Faith is powerful. So when we realize who we are in Christ and I'm not referring to what a lot of trans Atlantic ministers and preachers push on, Leya (30m 16s): We have people all over the world. <inaudible> Reverend Ben (30m 26s): Yeah. It's so we gotta be really, really careful because I keep emphasizing the word COVID that word is a very heavy word, what it stands for. But above that, as savior went to the cross, everything was now to the cross love now to them, to the cross. It wasn't them, Roman soldiers that forged them now as the blacksmiths and that wasn't then the, the, the, the strength of them. Now, it was the strength of our Christ chafe. So we've got so much to be happy about July for the town. And we got to be careful that we don't allow too much outside staff to invite the inner us. Leya (31m 2s): By the end of the day, the Bible says that we should wear a spiritual armor, not our actual clunky Reverend Ben (31m 11s): That's right. Leya (31m 12s): The dancing. Do you know what I mean? So you, you, you can't be free if you're under the control of pain, anxiety, guilt, and hate all the time. Yes. Reverend Ben (31m 24s): So much about Control isn't it Control, it Control everywhere. You know, but with her even going to buy a coffee, now I want to know your QR code kind of sucks. You go, where did it come from? Leya (31m 35s): But you know what I mean? Number one, this book, when you go to the pub, Reverend Ben (31m 38s): The pop, the pop the, or exactly. Yeah. You go and buy a coffee. You want to the little girl or the lock tight, and you've got to go write for rigmarole and to do this, do that inside of the leg measurement to our code. This, that sign that step in, I think common coffee's gone to college. Leya (31m 55s): Yeah. But the Lord delights that that's one thing I've been trapping. Seriously, trying to sign some of the Lord delights in us, Reverend Ben (32m 4s): Delight yourself in the Lord, delight yourself in the Lord, Jesus for a long you've just got a rest in Jesus. Jesus is the way, here's the way the truth in their life. No one comes to the father. Yeah. Leya (32m 16s): What choice of a word delight means to just be, as I kept saying to me, bubbling over with gladness and glean, beautiful way of putting it. Reverend Ben (32m 29s): You can't, you can't get anything more powerful, more spiritual than the word God. It's so powerful. Leya (32m 37s): The Gideon Bible that comes in a red cover, but most Bibles that you get, come in this big black book. Yeah. This big black book with lots of little tiny write in it. And a lot of people will find that oppressive to see that. But I am telling you, I want to tell you through this microphone and this wire going out to the rest of the world, that there is so much beauty in that book. Reverend Ben (33m 4s): Yeah. It is Leya (33m 6s): Shine. How can you let your light shine that so that other people can see you and know the Lord, if you're not feeling of joy and who wants to be part of a club that doesn't laugh at itself? Reverend Ben (33m 17s): Nah, you know what I'm here. Yeah. You can't be too serious. Is the difference between being serious and being Holy. You can be Holy and right. Living in the word of God. But the joy of it, there's a difference between it's. Cause what happens is when you're live in religion, you don't smile the smile. Leya (33m 38s): I mean, I'm not an evangelist. That's not me. But I do believe that when people talked to me about God, I've got, I cannot pay automatically put a smile on my face and don't put that smile on my face. God puts that smile on my face. I can't control the Gleevec I've got, but so is that a problem that's been happening in the world for the last 300 years that people see it as being a peer rhetorical way of controlling in people's lives. Is that why religion has gone out of our society because they don't see it as something to be joyous in, but to be constantly repenting and feeling terrible and being controlled by yeah. That was in our schools anymore. Is that why it's not an animal? Reverend Ben (34m 22s): I think there's a, quite a bit of spirituality. Leya (34m 26s): Very serious. I'm not to tell another Jesus joke. Yeah. Reverend Ben (34m 29s): Jesus Jacquelyn. But just, but I fully agree. Completely agree with you. But also the devil works in some areas. He wants to see if he can strip the word I got out, ease, ease, stripping that the life of a second life out of everything, because we've out the word. There is no point in living. So I fully understand what you're saying, but also there is a spiritual side to that where the enemy works through humanity as well as Christ worked for years. And he, and he uses agents to remove that. So there's the right side of what you're talking about. Then you've got the spiritual side where they, where the enemy is, is doing that as well. And just for anyone's reference, Psalms 37, verse four, it says, delight yourself in the Lord. And he will give you the desires of your heart. Some of seven of us, Leya (35m 21s): The desires of my heart are not to be controlled and oppressed, but to be joyous and dance like that, dude. Reverend Ben (35m 29s): <inaudible> what though what the real of someone else has spoke about before? No David King David, he died before the Lord dance before. Now Leya (35m 44s): The question, what is, what is the best way to study the Bible? Reverend Ben (35m 48s): I don't know. What is the best way to study the Bible? You Luke into it. Oh my gosh. You look into it. Oh gosh. These are so cheesy. Cheesy Christmas craft stuff is going on, but anybody, anyone wants to be really Holy and Reverend right now, Psalms 37 verse four. <inaudible> Nakano seriously. Look at that word, delight yourself in the Lord. That is beautiful. And he will give you the desires of your heart. Leya (36m 21s): It's I love it. That when the Bible talks about Jesus and God a lot of the time it relates it to light song. Love joy. I mean, that can't be ignored. And yet it seems to be by a lot of people and it don't get it. I mean, I, I do get it that there are people all over the world that being persecuted and that's Reverend Ben (36m 49s): Yeah. I can't use words Leya (36m 50s): Its to express how terrible that thing is. Sorry. The strength that they find in the joy of the Lord is the thing that keeps them going. The love that they find the support that they find in a father that delights in him. He is their song. Reverend Ben (37m 7s): Yeah. See you talk about song. You talk about worship. So that's, that's really powerful. Music is powerful. Music will put you into what, when you, when you look at what the enemy does with the music, econ almost put you into a trunk talking about that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, music is really powerful. Not for yourself. I've been a musician, you know the power of music. It's so music, there's two sides to it. So there's a worship side and we understand that Lucifer got kicked out of heaven because he wanted it. He wanted, he wanted to be worshiped. He was the worshiper. He was the chief of cheese Leya (37m 46s): <inaudible> he said, Reverend Ben (37m 51s): No, he's not down. That's right. Leya (37m 56s): Like yeah, Reverend Ben (38m 2s): No God no, no, no. It's about joy tonight. And then joy now down. Not in love with Jesus said to the, to the ones that was around. And he said, I see light. He said, I see Satan fall like lightning. Yeah. For imagine what that the noise is. Yeah. Like you can easily, you can almost picture it like in a Hollywood movie because of how they would, they would do that. Like lightly fell like lightning. So when Christ said that it, it ma it was obviously light lightening because it just so fast and he hit the earth and he left their life. Dust exploded everywhere. And the same with the fall. Leya (38m 41s): Oh yeah. Reverend Ben (38m 43s): <inaudible> Leya (38m 46s): Can I ask you a question? Did he fall straight to hell or the other? Reverend Ben (38m 49s): It felt, it felt to the earth. He felt, he said he in scripture says I see lightening for, I see Satan, sorry. I see Satan fall like lightening to the earth. So he ricocheted, he must've bounced a few times. Bang. You can imagine that candor, you can imagine this fallen angel or the common just to hit the art field. You can imagine what that must have been like what I've got a great scene from, from a movie or something like that Leya (39m 17s): That they'll know about this. I'm going to ask for the service, but also probably a stupid question to all what angels are for wings. And if we did the district, Satan of his wings Reverend Ben (39m 27s): Stripped him of his wings. Well, when you look at it, right, Leya (39m 31s): Otherwise he could have flown back up to heaven. Reverend Ben (39m 33s): Yeah. I'm going to throw it out. Yeah. So when you look at cherubims and you look at angels and angelic figures, there they are. They have, they have, they have wins when you look at the chair bins on the Ark of the covenant. Yeah. That'd be a good thing to talk about. So yeah, there are so, but when you see, when you see sites and you can see a lot of images at the moment, continue to with him, like the way they depict him when I draw him with wings on that. But whatever, a good dive into that. Cause that'd be a good subject to talk about when it's the site and fell lot lightning. Yeah. Leya (40m 4s): Cause that's another thing that I've noticed as well. We've Halloween coming up at the moment. I'm just driving to work yesterday, listening to radio four because of a bit of a spot and a that's the Swanley word for dweeb that's for you in Oregon. And basically there was a radio station on and on radio four and they were talking about poltergeists real life political first time at breakfast time in the UK, on the BBC radio, seriously talking about ghosts. And I was thinking, how can you talk about the fear? The ghost will bring in people reveling that excitement of that fear, but you can't talk about the love of Jesus on that radio show at that time. Reverend Ben (40m 51s): Oh, talk about it. The love of Christ, but you can talk about any occultic act Leya (40m 55s): Randomly. They won't talk about the Love of the fear that they have, where the repercussions, but the talk about fear itself. Reverend Ben (41m 3s): I talk about fear itself. Let me tell you this interesting story. The guy that I'm talking about doesn't he died and he was called down to glory. And when he first come into this church, he was really struggling. He was really puzzled and he was really upset and he was living at home on his own. His wife passed away and his son was living there as well. Talking about what you're talking about. Pope Paul, the guy spirits and the spirit world. And he said to me, he said, Ben. He said, I'll need you to come around my ass and price. He said, me and my son sitting in the front room and he said, we can hear this noise. Somebody started in the kitchen and suddenly we hear this crash bang, wallop. And he said, we're go in there. And the tins of beans and all that, whereas in the cupboards will be actually on the floor. That's not serious. This is serious. And I said, really so me and a misdirect, we prayed, we prayed, we prayed. And we prayed. And I said, look so it to take this Bible. I said, have you got a Bible on him? He said, no, I don't. I said, I can't say, take this Bible. I know on what we'd done. We turned to the Psalm 91, we read Psalm 91 in the church. He took it home and he read it that night. And then he'd sent me a text two hours or so later and said, you ain't going to believe it. Nothing at the moment. So what he done every night, he read Psalm 91 and they never had any more movement. So you're talking about poltergeists and how Hollywood dresses all of this up. And you're talking about Lucifer wings, their eye into their wings. You can going to go in the word of God and you will find a read about angels. And then you can study. Angel was in there, there are different mythologies out there and all sorts of things about angels. But when you look at angels in the word of God and you look at them, are the best place to go would be to look about what talked about the arc or the covenant, where, where it tells you what they was like under their wings and then, and all that sort of stuff. And you will trace all of that is really interesting. It was really interesting. But, but we talk when you talk about the spirit world, Paul, the world of how we guide and all that it is of the cultic activity. So very real. So even though they're talking about on a breakfast show in the morning, it's just like, they they'll accept that, but they don't accept Christ. Leya (43m 14s): Interesting to think about that. God you just made there, is that, what was it that drove out? Whatever it was, was the perfect life of the word of God. Say that again. The perfect Love of the word of God was the thing that was required to drive out whatever it was. That was Ben gentleman was expensive. Reverend Ben (43m 35s): Okay. So yeah. So what we have, we have the spirit world that the church doesn't really tap into it. It taps into the happy clappy, natural. Well, but there is a world that exists. There's a very dark, very spiritual, but we've got to remember is that we have authority over that. So we can't get ourselves into that area. If we, if we allowed ourselves to get into that dark place, we will be in a, quite a bit of a mess because it is dark. But what got to remember is, is that, is that the power and the love of God is greater than any of that. That's what you're speaking the word of God. So you're speaking the word of God, which is, Leya (44m 13s): It would be interesting if just for you people at home, if we could discuss this very concept. Yeah. Leading up to Halloween yes. In another Podcast what'd you think about that? Reverend Ben (44m 24s): And they would do that and we cover it. We cover all that. It's really, really, really important that we cover that. It, it really is, you know, because I Leya (44m 32s): See children taking joy in dressing up as Reverend Ben (44m 37s): Yeah. Yeah. We'll look at, we'll look at that. And we pull the relevant scriptures out regarding that, you know, we're talked about angel. We'll do that next time. Let's let's do that next time. We can go into that. We Love know the old Testament where it talks with the song. Leya (44m 51s): It's a bit too serious for the conversation. Love and joy. Reverend Ben (44m 57s): Yeah. I mean, let's keep it on. Leya (44m 60s): Let's keep it. Let's keep it on. Right. I've got another question for you. Reverend Ben (45m 4s): Oh, come on. Go ahead. Leya (45m 6s): If Mary had Jesus and Jesus was a little lamb, does that mean that Mary had the little lamb credit to MRH for that job? Reverend Ben (45m 16s): Goodness gracious. <inaudible> really, you know, Oh my God. There's a time for bad jokes. Ben Leya (45m 36s): Time to laugh. There's a time to dance. Reverend Ben (45m 41s): Oh my goodness. What to say? We've had good fun. It's been great. You know what else she'd got to finish on? What else we got? Leya (45m 49s): I just love the fact that, that the irreverence that sometimes we show makes us more relatable to the human brain is to have our brothers and sisters in it. The society that we serve, we reflect the community that we live in. We do that is so important for other people to see that and believe that they can be a part of it too, because you know, that is so, so important that when people enter the church, they're not turned away by the seriousness and the oppression of Control because Jesus lovely, beautiful Jesus, which is what pastor Tom used to say all the time. And I love that. He, he just delighted in us. Yeah. His last and most important thing that he said to us was love one another, as I have loved you. Reverend Ben (46m 55s): That's right. Leya (46m 57s): I don't remember him ever being oppressive or in Control of anyone. He was always welcoming. He went into the hallways and the buyer's waves. He went down the pub and pick people up and say, come with me. Do you know what I mean? Reverend Ben (47m 10s): Yeah, no. I got that. The people at the party. Yeah. He was a dude. He was a real day. He is the savior of the world. Leya (47m 21s): I hope that people realize that when I say that I so in respect. Yeah, of course, absolutely. In respect because I loved that. He was such a dude and the fact that he gave all the up for me. Reverend Ben (47m 34s): Oh, I mean he's mind blown, isn't it? It really is. When you really think about it is it is, it is amazing. You know, the love of God, humor and joy and hope all wrapped up in Christ, wrapped up in the word of God. Its wrapped up, arranged rapped up in Christ and we're just need to get in the word. And as we get in the word, the unwraps, you know, we get peace. We get joy understanding. Ah, so that, you know, I love Jesus. I love him. The power of God. Holy spirit. There's a side when we need to be really serious Reverend but we can still be joyous and be Reverend Leya (48m 10s): Sometimes. Sorry, I know you want to close, but I've got to say this. I've got two minutes to say it in. Okay. Sometimes I'm sharp when I'm, when I'm out and taking my photographs. I do have my driver, whatever. And I'll, I feel like God is having little jokes with me sometimes. So I'll say I'll God and God let that mood and come for out from behind that cloud so I can take a picture of it. And I stand there and he does it and I go, Reverend Ben (48m 38s): He's on my side. He's on my side. Leya (48m 40s): Yeah. I'll be driving along the road and I'll think, Oh God, to be with me, please, baby with me, please got to be with me. I need, I want to be more faithful. That's my constant prayer for the moment and our drive around the corner. And there will be the most beautiful sight I've sit in the world. And I think he's just weakened at me. Reverend Ben (48m 59s): There you go. There you go. Leya (49m 1s): You know, and those, the little signs that you God. So yeah, Reverend Ben (49m 4s): The signs that you got to take it, Leya (49m 6s): The lighting in me as I delight in him. Thank you. Reverend Ben (49m 10s): Thank you. That's it. And we want to thank you for joining with us for these few moments on this evening, the sun is dropping. Leya (49m 18s): The children are still playing outside Reverend Ben (49m 19s): The plane, you know, and we thank God for everything. And may God bless all of you that are listening to us wherever you may be in the world. Please share everything we do here. Even listening to myself Reverend Ben Cooper and layer this evening and we will catch you in a week or two. So we thank you so so much for listening and the comments please ping in, in our text emails, straight into Elim Swanley or find us or know all the usual social media platforms, but take care, stay safe. Fall in love with Jesus. Following Don said, Elvis has left the building. Thank you very much. Take care, stay safe. Keeping the word of God. It's so real. God bless.