Reverend Ben Cooper 0:01
Hello, welcome. Thank you for joining us here on our podcast at eating church in Swanee. You're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and Brian Scully. We are so pleased and glad that Brian has traveled all the way from his LinkedIn with his wife Meyer to join us as Brian will share some great stories. I've got a bit of a smile on my face here. You know, he's a lovely guy. You know, we love Brian. He's been preaching here for quite a while. And through, we got to meet Brian through Sandra, in the world of the persecuted church, and Brian's got a great story is going to share and I can't help smiling at this moment. And it's so good. So good to have you with us. Brian, thank you so much for coming all the way from his LinkedIn bit of a journey all the way through, wasn't it?
Brian Scully 0:43
Yeah, it's fine.
Unknown Speaker 0:45
Price God right. We are gonna listen to Brian's bit of a part of a testament and the things that he gets involved in in the in the world of mission that he's that he's involved in, in different places he's been to but Brian, can you tell us how you became a born again believer in Christ and set journey that there was a pattern? Okay, well, I was brought up Catholic, and you know, did all the things good Catholic boy should do because I was an altar boy, etc. And, but I became more and more disenchanted. And when I was 15, I kind of walked away. Okay, from the face. Yeah. strange thing was that I couldn't get rid of Jesus. Wow, totally, you know, right of everything else in it, but not Jesus and got rid of everything else. Yeah. So you said he was brought up as a Catholic? Oh, yeah. We were strict. We used to have to kneel down every night, say the rosary and so on, you know. Wow. So yeah, it was pretty good. Have you got any brothers and sisters? Yeah. Three brothers and three sisters. Okay. And, yeah. Where would you Where were you brought up, Brian? What web apps and I was actually born in India. I was part of all I'm Eurasian. You know, my father worked for a company called Burma shell. So we moved to China. And so, you know, and then I came here very early, when I was about nine, you know, but, of course, the Catholicism was the same in India, you could say, oh, let's see stricter in India. And so we just continued that when we came to England, you know, when founder, went to a local Catholic Church and so on. Okay, so you are Catholic, up until the age you was 15. I'd say I walked away. I got a bit disenchanted with it. Okay, you walked away or a small guy. And so what was the next part of your journey? Brian? Well, as I kind of left home and so on, I, I got into a kind of hippie lifestyle. You must remember, this is the sixth. Yes. Someone says, Do you remember the 60s? I said, and the answer is if you remember the 60s you when you weren't there.
Brian Scully 2:48
So this is a bit of a blur,
Unknown Speaker 2:50
a bit of a blur, but major things I do remember, I mean, I I got into all the bad stuff, you know, took drugs, etc. glues, including hallucinogenic drugs like LSD and so on. And you went on a pretty wild lifestyle. Okay. So from the age of 15, what time gap that you roughly had in between, like from 1516 when you You didn't jump straight into the hippie life? No, no, no, I did. I left home found a bed sitting and got a job. Yeah, but pretty soon I was sucked into that kind of lifestyle. I lived around Swiss Cottage it during this time. And so there was we went to clubs in discotheques and so on in pubs and met up with people in in bands, you know, and yeah, very first.
Brian Scully 3:43
It was easy just to get into that.
Unknown Speaker 3:44
Yeah, yeah, that's how I first started smoking pot of golden. Yeah. And people say it's no harm and pot and but actually, you don't stop it pot, you know, right in any way. And no, it's just an inroad into other. Yeah, exactly. You had a lucid genix. And you you had some real bad you had a really bad experience. She was telling me Yeah, I did. I did a one trip I went on it. It was it was literally how I thought I'd died and gone to hell. And I didn't come down off this trip and ended up in a psychiatric ward Ward where I was I received electric shock treatment. And, and
Brian Scully 4:20
sort of he was you them rival sort of ages. Oh,
Unknown Speaker 4:23
that was bad. 1819 I think 18 some? Something like that. Yeah, very, very young man. You'd come out of Catholicism. That was a shock coming out of that. And then and then someone offered you this alternative life that was joy, happiness. Yeah. You know, man, we're floating around commonweal. Yeah, that's right. How not live to dream. Now. The amazing thing is LSD, which isn't snitching. You think, you know, it was called a dose of perception. You know, one, one person called it You think you're hurting get heaven? Yeah, but actually you end up with hell. It's like the devil you know, he's Yes, she fly. Just top of the mountain. Yeah. And he throws you off the other side. That's right. A guy journey throws you off. And you're right to the debt that is almost, you feel that you're never going to return this right? Yeah. And I and I ended up in the psychiatric ward. And I should have learned my lesson but unfortunately, I didn't I came out or was okay. And, you know, behave myself for a bit but then, you know, gradually went back to my hippie lifestyle. I did all these hippie things you must understand. That was your life. He was living he was living that that along with overseas, it's easy to pick up any anything, any any drugs whatsoever. It's not and had a good time as well don't want to say it was all horror. I mean, he he tried to Marrakech united. Wow. So the Marrakesh Express.
Brian Scully 5:50
The hippie lifestyle
Unknown Speaker 5:52
lived on the Greek islands for six months or so. Wow. Yes. So you've really had a very powerful, unusual here, or when I say an unusual journey. Yeah, it's it's really not that unusual. I know. We're in the water the church now but exactly the same experiences a year with one thing or another. And God is always with us all the way throughout.
Unknown Speaker 6:12
Yeah. Isn't it? Absolutely amazing. When you
Unknown Speaker 6:14
see stages where use? Absolutely,
Unknown Speaker 6:18
yeah, well, I met my wife in 1968, something like that. And she wasn't a hippie like me, but she liked to go to the disco texts. Yeah, often. That's where I'm at. And then I and I think we got married in 7172. Yes, sorry.
Unknown Speaker 6:38
I should typical husband.
Unknown Speaker 6:40
Well, yeah, no problem. And
Unknown Speaker 6:43
I was still a bit of a hippie and went to Holland went to how sensibly to to, to find a job. And you
Unknown Speaker 6:52
ended up? Come on, I ended up.
Unknown Speaker 6:55
You're not gonna believe this in a Christian hostel in the middle of the red light district. Right. Really? Yeah. So we had this Christian hostel, which was cheap to stay in. Yeah. And we had girls in the window on either side. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Actually, one of them got baptized, you know, became a believer. But in the meantime, I kept bumping into Christians.
Unknown Speaker 7:16
There was a lot of postponement.
Unknown Speaker 7:19
Yeah, there was a place in, I think it's still there. It's a boat. It's on a canal. It's called the arc. And these people invited me to for dinner and stuff. And of course, you know, we, we didn't have much money. And of course, free dinner is great. But I had to put up with them. Sure, preaching the gospel. Let me say that again. To get free dinners. I had to put up with him preaching the gospel. I couldn't see I couldn't get rid of Jesus, Jesus, and then also the, they invited me to Bible studies and so on, okay. Anyway, one night, I was in this hostel. And for some strange reason, while I note was the Lord now the fear of God came upon me, you know, must have been everything they were preaching. Yeah. And I, I kind of thought what's gonna happen if I die, you know? And I thought I know what I'll do. I'll confess. The old Catholic, Catholic kicked in. Yeah. And then I went downstairs, and the only person I could confess to was this young lad. He was on the reception desk.
Unknown Speaker 8:33
He goes on.
Unknown Speaker 8:34
Yeah, exactly.
Unknown Speaker 8:38
He was like,
Unknown Speaker 8:40
but anyway, I felt, yeah, that's right sort of thing, you know. But the next day, I had a Bible, by the way, this day. Yeah. The next day, I decided to hitchhike to, to copan hate up to Denmark, because my wife was going to meet me in Denmark. Yes. I didn't get a job, by the way. So I've written my Bible at the side of the road, and I got everything mixed up, you know, dying to solve and you must be born again. So I got it all mixed up. And I thought, Oh, I must be prepared to die. If I, if I'm going to go to heaven. Yeah. So I set a kind of prayer. Right. Okay, Lord, I know I'm no good, but I know that I have to die now. Be prepared to die. So I'm ready. Take my life. And I don't know what happened. But I was slain in the spirit, you know. And I came to an eye, and everything was different. I could smell the feel the grass, like it was like velvet. I can smell flowers and trees. I thought, wow, I'm in heaven. It's happened to me. Isn't that interesting? Brian, you've had many trips, and I'm referring to better than any trip. That's what I'm saying. So with the power of God and the Holy Spirit, entered into a realm that you never went to before, as a young hippie, yeah, but that that lifestyle that we're talking about pre We are now is that's what that's what we're always looking for. Everyone was looking for that place of spiritual fulfillment. Yeah, in drug Sex, drugs and rock and roll. It never filled the gap. Yeah, but suddenly on the roadside, yeah, you had an experience that was just life changing. Absolutely. But I must mention that, you know, it didn't stop there. I felt everything that was rotten flowing out of me. And I was just overwhelmed with God's love with the love of God. I couldn't move. I was just shaking, shaking in the Spirit because it was overpowering. So all your early childhood is, as in kofler, cough cough medicine. Allah says, Oh, yeah, I'm just, you know, thinking about it. Brian on the roadside. So all the trouble that you went through in Catholicism, you went through as a young person in that you come out of the religion you went into the world of being a hippie, all that sort of stuff. Everything you lips, suddenly you fell all this? Yeah. Just disappearing from you at the roadside. Yeah, you felt the love of God just wrapping his arms around. You just you felt this. Yeah. Love of God. Yeah. But the strange thing was, I thought I was an iPod that died, you know, and was in heaven. And then I saw cards. Oh, what were the aging sickness going on? So cars can't beat that. Then, you know, so I thought, Well, I better get up to Copenhagen. Yeah. Well, I was gonna covenant then to meet my wife. She lived on an island. And I started hitting before I start good. Start hitchhiking proper. I got up to hitchhike and and this car drove up. And it was a Dutch hippie, would you? Oh.
Unknown Speaker 11:45
He said, Hey, man.
Unknown Speaker 11:48
I must have been so still Oh, my God. I started preaching as Jesus loves you.
Unknown Speaker 11:55
Faithful Wow, what you are. But
Unknown Speaker 11:58
he invited me into the car. Oh, really? Yeah. And I started telling him what just happened, you know, and I just couldn't keep it to myself. You can hold it down. turns out he's a Buddhist. All right. Okay. says, Wow, this is amazing. I can't do the Dutch accent. Yeah, my Guru has been trying to get this for 25 years.
Unknown Speaker 12:19
And suddenly, you're on the right side on it.
Unknown Speaker 12:21
Yeah. And I didn't know what he was talking about. Yeah, sure. But the strange thing was he took me home introduced me to his wife, who was a kind of Eurasian girl, you know, Indonesian Dutch. Okay. And she was going to visit the guru that night, him and her and her husband. They asked me to look after the little Sunday, and I think his name was beyond. Yeah, that's a bit strange for some total stranger. But anything I greet out on the
Unknown Speaker 12:45
road. So you
Unknown Speaker 12:46
babysit. And then Meantime, all I could talk about was
Unknown Speaker 12:51
always talking about cheese.
Unknown Speaker 12:53
Yeah, but anyway. Yeah. It's It was amazing. And that night, I had this tremendous feeling again, you know, and shaking and, and, you know, I presume talking in tongues all over to me, it was like I was just wasn't in control of. So you had
Unknown Speaker 13:10
this spiritual experience.
Unknown Speaker 13:12
Yeah. And then then the next day, I said, I have to go and they took me to the German border. Yeah. And I started hitchhiking and, and stopped after some about 100 meter. miles, you know, kilometers, whatever. Yeah. And opened my rucksack and they filled it full of food and fruit and stuff.
Unknown Speaker 13:32
Yeah. So they they sustained you on your journey.
Unknown Speaker 13:35
Yeah. And then I've gone up to my wife's house. Yes. And I didn't realize that completely changed apparently won't even ask her. She She didn't verify this. But apparently, I was just talking. I was just telling her and all the family, Jesus.
Unknown Speaker 13:51
Brian's on it again. Exposure have left that.
Unknown Speaker 13:54
And of course, it appeared that I was drunk. Yeah, it wasn't on drugs. I wasn't drunk. And I wasn't on drugs. But there's something about that in max. Yeah. These are drunk. Yes. And it's funny, because when I was talking to the preaching to the family, we're all we're all over. Same as Jesus loves you.
Unknown Speaker 14:13
So you could save
Unknown Speaker 14:14
her. Yeah. And then there was a knock on the door. And my brother went out. And there was this, these Jehovah's Witnesses. And he came back in and said, Brian, there's some of your friends. And I I went out to hi guys want to talk about a god, you know, and they ran off after a couple of thought I was bombing, I suppose. Yeah. And that's how it started.
Unknown Speaker 14:39
What an unusual journey. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 14:41
it will actually I
Unknown Speaker 14:43
because I'd only had the Catholic and Oh, I forgot to mention that. I previously been involved with a cult called the children of God. That's
Unknown Speaker 14:52
why to pick up on it. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 14:53
Yeah. So. So where
Unknown Speaker 14:55
did that slide into?
Unknown Speaker 14:56
Well, after I left home, and you know, I was Running a shop in Portobello Road called Kentucky Fried Chicken. KFC today. Yeah, and you know, and I was the manager, and it was the first time I've had a decent job for some time, you know, this was after my coming out of hospital, you know, and stuff like that. And one of these people came into the shop mericans and started singing to me, you know, started singing you got to be a baby to get to heaven. Jesus said, God, this is great, you know, and, and they were part of this group, which I later found out was a cult. Who
Unknown Speaker 15:35
got drawn into this. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 15:37
yeah. Unfortunately, I had to leave in the end, although it wasn't easy trying to leave them, you know, because Cold Stone like you leaving no. And later on all sorts of horrible stuff came out about them. We won't go into that. God, I won't go into that. To be fair, I just thought they were a bit crazy, you know? And yeah, their leader was a bit crazy and everything. I'll tell you one thing about cars, they all have one thing in common. They all usually have a leader. And the leaders word is final. Yeah. In fact, even if it totally conflicts with Scripture, and they claim to be Christians, yes. The leaders were overrules everything, including scripture. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 16:15
Yeah. And the altar,
Unknown Speaker 16:16
and they all have one thing in common. The leader says this, or the Prophet says that or, and you can't question in that for about just over a year. long enough. Yeah. I had to get out because I thought that these people are great. So wrong, so wrong, because even though I could see although I wasn't a hadn't been immersed in the Bible, even I could see it.
Unknown Speaker 16:40
So could we say the Spirit of God already working?
Unknown Speaker 16:42
Definitely, he will awaken in your eyes looking after me. He was taking care of Yeah. But after the experience of being born again in Holland, and you know, charging up to see my wife. I thought, oh, all I've had is the Catholic Church. Yeah. And this mad cold? Yes. I'll just be a Christian on my own. You know.
Unknown Speaker 17:05
Love it. I'll be a Christian.
Unknown Speaker 17:08
Easy. I mean, I thought, Oh, well, I'm going to pumps in witness to people in pumps and stuff like that. And sometimes that didn't work. One particular day, I remember telling this guy he's going to go to hell. And which point is this makes it up and give me a right hander. And I was fumbling Oh,
Unknown Speaker 17:26
my goodness.
Unknown Speaker 17:27
Talking about persecuted for Christ.
Unknown Speaker 17:30
No, just foolishness. That was
Unknown Speaker 17:34
a great big gorilla suddenly decides.
Unknown Speaker 17:38
Yeah, cuz I insulted his mate. Yeah. Funny enough, his mate came to church. But once more when I when I started going to church, which I did a few years after this experience and in just outside Amsterdam. So I want to encourage people out there if you don't, if you're not in a church do do join one. There's no perfect church, but you do need fellowship, you know, because it's very hard to exist as a believer on your own, you know, yeah, and sometimes, you know, you can go wrong. So you need people beside you to just say, Howard Hang on a minute. That's not quite right. You know, yeah. So too, you know, and you need fellowship. That's what the Bible says. So I would encourage anyone that's not in a church, but loves the Lord. Find a fellowship. Even if it's just a house church, you need fellowship. Yeah, that's my preaching over but you carry on my friend You carry on so good. So so we have you coming out of Catholicism you come up into you work in Kentucky Fried Chicken. And yeah. Can you backtrack a little bit and tell me that story that you told me off fair, where it can be on the counter? Is that because the people from the children of God they were all California and hippies, remember? Yeah, no, they're all bronze do. Yeah. And they came in, you know, they became familiar with me they started coming in every day and then they started going into the kitchen and helping themselves to the chicken. So I said to this one guy, he was kind of the leader his name was mash. Mash mash man, I don't know where they got their name. I don't know Gabi some old testament names like Caleb, you know? Anyway, so shouldn't you should you be doing those and not stealing? And he said, No, my brother The earth is the Lord's and everything in it. JOHN, john.
Unknown Speaker 19:28
manipulate your scripture. They get food.
Unknown Speaker 19:31
Yeah. And I
Unknown Speaker 19:32
kind of thought Oh, yeah, okay. Okay, let's get on with it. Oh my gosh. So out in the Catholic Church Kentucky Fried Chicken manage being a manager that for a while you met Colonel soldiers. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 19:43
And he actually came over
Unknown Speaker 19:46
to check out six shops and yards was one he chose actually had a picture of a taken with him which was put over the door. Yeah, over the you know, I wish I had it too. That didn't take Keep going with me when I left. Yeah. But yeah, so he's from the chicken shop. Yeah. To the front man. Yeah. Because he's sold his rights but also as a kind of, yeah, obviously most definitely. So, Catholic Church, chicken shop. You know, we all have been traveling. Come on, come on here. Have you ever heard of a actor called Richard Widmark? Yes. Well, they were going to shoot a film. He was shooting from gore Madigan in London. Okay. And they wanted to use the shop. Yeah. As as. So there was a day shoot in the shop. And all it was was was, he would come in the shop and say, get a chicken. Yeah, but but go to chicken walk out of the shop. And he was supposed to be following someone. Oh, yeah. Someone's following him. Yeah. Anyway, we're shooting this scene. And he came in Richard Widmark. Yeah. And we had a conversation and he says,
Unknown Speaker 21:01
How much did How much does this guy pay you?
Unknown Speaker 21:06
Meaning Kentucky Fried Chicken. Yes. And I told him, I said, Why that cheap bum?
Unknown Speaker 21:14
Probably he's getting million eight per game.
Unknown Speaker 21:17
So for the chicken shop, you've had a bit of a journey there. Yeah. So Catholic Church, hippy. Kentucky Fried Chicken occultic activity, then what happened? How did you come to be on these encounters? One day, obviously, the Lord said to me, look, because I was sitting there thinking, you know, what am I doing? You know, because my witnessing wasn't going very well. So I felt the Lord saying find a church. So how do I find a church? You know? Aren't they all a bit wonky? Yeah. So, so I had the yellow, remember the yellow. So I just looked at churches. So bringing up all these churches, goodness, and asking them what they believed. And it's an amazing exercise because you won't believe what some of them believe what they come up with, you know, like, they don't believe that in the Trinity or they told Jesus is the only way to salvation or they don't believe that Jesus is God. The son? Yes, Savior. Yeah. Not some bloke from Jerusalem or proc or something like that. And so, I found this church and they were some Do you know, and it was called city temple. Yeah, it was located in Holden. And I started going there. And they had a great preacher there called Brian Johansson, South African Gunny, he preached a solid, adulterated gospel. Yeah. And at this stage, my wife still wasn't a believer, but you know, yeah, I don't blame her because I put her off. Now. I can. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 22:54
That's a pretty common thing. I
Unknown Speaker 22:57
used to follow around the the flat with the Bible preaching to her. Oh, no, good.
Unknown Speaker 23:04
No, good.
Unknown Speaker 23:06
So yeah, so that didn't work. So one, so one day I just gave up so well, I felt the Lord saying to me Just be quiet. Yeah. Yeah. Which I did. And then one day, she just said, Can I come to church today? So she started coming to church with me and that's, that's how it happened a day. Yes. God, that's a typical example of how God saves people. Yes, you don't not not humanity. God work in his timings. It's all about him in his timings. He will provide your comfort. Yeah. Sometimes we try to rush things that we can't do that. All you can do is open your mouth when you're told to, and just speak the truth. Yeah. So So you started attending this church in Hoban, in when did you start preaching yourself? And how did that come around and get involved in the world of the persecuted that's all we are about a few years later before this now about 1982 a Chinese girl joined joined the church Chinese girl from Malaysia. And she said to me one day, Brian, I can't do a residency or we must go out and tell people about the Lord offer what are you crazy? Wow. But he actually got me door knocking you know, in the in the local area. So that sounds out traditional door knock Yeah. door knocking and mazing how people out there are so hungry. You know, we, we okay. We didn't get loads of people coming into the churches, but we met their needs. We prayed with them. So few people come to the Lord. Don't you
Unknown Speaker 24:39
just do what the scripture said?
Unknown Speaker 24:41
Yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 24:42
So you so you joined the church. He was out on the streets door knocking bit evangelism going on? Yeah. Then how did you get to travel and to do your Bible smuggling all in this sort of stuff, right. So one day about a couple of years later, but 84 I think later Later in the day This girl I told you about, she avoided me to her Chinese fellowship in the West End, and they were going to have lots of Chinese food and excellent. I thought great with a guest speaker. Yeah. And they had a guy speaking about the suffering church and how he he smuggled his Bibles into these communist countries like Russia and Romania and stuff. And I thought, Oh, that's that sounds interesting, you know? Yeah. So I went into it for all the wrong reasons, you know, sounded a bit adventurous. Yeah. Because you've got that adventurous spirit. You can, you can tell that from your journey of life traveling. Yeah, I think bolshie spirit, you know, yeah. I'm glad you said that. If there's something that's come off, we mustn't smuggle Bibles. But actually, in all these countries claim they don't ban Bibles. But in reality they. Yeah. So where was your first journey abroad?
Unknown Speaker 26:03
For Jesus?
Unknown Speaker 26:06
Yeah. Bible Yeah. to
Unknown Speaker 26:08
Romania, we would be taking 250 Bibles and to Romania. Was it an open trip? Or did you have to hide them somewhere was all you have to have? You had to hide him? He hid them under the floors of a caravan, you know, floor of character for the caravan. Yeah. And we. And again, we had some funny experiences, you know, they used to actually they knew people were smuggling Bibles because they drilled holes into the bottom of the caravan looking for Bibles, you know. And
Unknown Speaker 26:40
I heard a story that
Unknown Speaker 26:43
one Bible smuggling group, yeah, were related to me. It was really funny. They said, they went to a caravan site, and an English couple said, No, what did these people did they drilled holes in a caravan looking for people. smugglers.
Unknown Speaker 27:00
Here's this
Unknown Speaker 27:03
terrible scratching their chins, and they got Yeah, floor full of Bibles. But it's amazing how the Lord has outlawed works, because they they kept us at the border searching for some time. Then we went in, and we went driving early in the morning, and we saw some people in a field and and the person driving said it, they believers and we said, How do you know? I don't know. The Lord just told me they're believers. I don't know. We got to be very careful. Yeah. So we we had a little discussion. So let's go for it. So we walked into this field, and there's all these people suddenly stopped what they were doing, and looked at us in apprehension, we looked at them with what we do. We kept walking towards them. And we just went where Christians from the west and they all went, what, you know, some of them spoke English. They were Christians, too. And we all danced about hugging each other in this field about six o'clock in the move. Yeah, and they became our contacts. And I saw him for years after that he
Unknown Speaker 28:07
kept contact with him.
Unknown Speaker 28:08
Yeah. Because when I went back a
Unknown Speaker 28:12
couple of years later, and I, we needed to know about, you know, where we could take some of the aid we had with us. Okay, and there was a connection between Christians in those days in the in the communist countries, like, there was no division, whether they were Pentecostal, Baptist, even orthodox, they had no, there was no, no, they had an underground church, for instance, we were told, oh, there's a doctor on in the city call, you know, the chamber or there's a nurse and, you know, Christians so we could leave the aid with them, you know, whether it's medicines or whatever. So there was no nomination, no collusion, there was, no, they all love the Lord. They all, they all worshiped in their own way. But there was no us in them, you know, and that's the sad thing when freedom came to these countries. They all started arguing again, you know, it's so when freedom came, he actually destroyed it. To a, to a degree, the Unity was gone. Yeah, they all started fighting in like their own corner. Well, that's been my experience. Yeah, sure. My, it might be different in other countries. I don't. But I mean, yeah. Really sad. Really sad. It's very sad. I'm not saying you should get together with a cult or something. No, no, no, but I mean, okay, if you might have differences about how you serve community, no, one saying door always say door or, you know, pre rupture or post rupture. You know, there's all kinds of arguments that to make, those are not important. Listen, the only things important is that Do you love Jesus? Do you love Jesus is the only way by which men can be saved? Yes. Right. Yeah. Put your trust in the Lord. Right. That's the major thing. Yeah, if people started preaching something different, then I'll have a problem with it. I'm gonna start arguing about how you serve community, you know, whether you want to take long road, it's up to you like to wear jeans and T shirt. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So let's not start arguing about silly things. Right. But okay, obviously, you have to stand up against heresy but something different. Yeah, I get that. So you've, you've done a fantastic ride, coming up to where you are in ministry today. So, how many? How many countries? Did you go back to? Have you been back to those ones? Since? Yeah, I've been to Romania a few times. I went to Albania. In those days. Albania was like the North Korea of today. They were
Unknown Speaker 30:41
there was a really yeah.
Unknown Speaker 30:45
They had a dictator called Enver horcher. And he virtually massacre all Christians in the country. It's a terrible time. It was like started in the late 50s. Early 60s, we went on to live in into the 80s. And we didn't even know there was any Christians there. And but we got in, we got in. And we had to walk through no man's land to get to to Albania from
Unknown Speaker 31:10
Yugoslavia, the Malta experience.
Unknown Speaker 31:13
It was okay. I mean, they, they, you could only get into Paris, you had to get your visa through Paris in those days. And we went in and we were immediately put in a bus with minders. Right. And of course, they took us to work what they wanted us to see like factories, which were horrible because people were walking around with no arms and things in these factories. They look like something that the Victorian age, or they wanted us to go to a kindergarten and all these children about five, six years old, were totally indoctrinated, and they'd be standing there singing songs to their glorious leader and stuff like that. Okay, so anyway, I got fed up with this, and there was a girl of like mine, call Amanda. Yeah. She said, I know what, Brian, when we when we go in on the next. Every morning, they take you in the bus somewhere. You tell them you're sick. And I am your nurse, I have to look off to you. So I said, right. Okay. So Well, I suppose the Lord will forgive me in the middle. So then, when they were all gone, yeah, we sneaked out the hotel. Also bless the law directors and I said, we should go this way. And Amanda would say, No, I think the Lord, let's go this way. Walking into the hills, you know, and all of a sudden, and we took our process out, he took the crutches out and
Unknown Speaker 32:37
had them on show.
Unknown Speaker 32:38
Yeah, we took them out, you know. And, well, once we came to the country, they knew we were Christians anyway. But they kind of decided to ignore it. But we were walking along the street and there was an old lady sitting on a low wall in front of her house. And she she saw our crowd, and she went and she covered her mother hands and then blew a case and then put our hands over our heart and, and she ushered us to her and we ran up the stairs into her house in her home. And there were these two strapping boys with their families, their wives and children. And again, we said Are we were Christians from the west, and they said were Christians, too. We'd never been able to believe anyone would come to us. And it was an amazing, amazing senior interesting journey. You know, some of that on film, actually. Oh, yeah. The second time we've met. Yeah. So yeah. So of course, you can't kill God's Church now. And so they were secret believers. They're all over the place. And today, yes. Albania has a vibrant
Unknown Speaker 33:45
Church has a big, big mass and also,
Unknown Speaker 33:48
there's a big Muslim population. Yeah. So yes, I've been went to countries like that. And I went to North Korea, and and how is
Unknown Speaker 33:57
your experience in North Korea?
Unknown Speaker 33:59
Yeah, well, I'll just do a quick again about indoctrination. Yeah, that's a school and you can see this all the kids again singing praises to the dictator and all the rest of it. Yeah, for those all those that can't say this, Brian's got this fantastic black and white picture of these tiny little schoolchildren all been indoctrinated by and what else we got? They were doctrine ated there. Yeah. But then we said can we sing the song and they said, Okay, so we did started singing with two South African girls. Yeah. This old man you know, knick knack paddy wagon. Oh, cuz it's an action Song.
Unknown Speaker 34:40
Yes. So they engaged in that.
Unknown Speaker 34:42
Yeah, yeah. And so did some of the ladies the teachers. And so we said, Oh, can we sing another song? Of course, so he stopped a singing but it is a strong tower strong tower that people running on.
Unknown Speaker 34:59
My goodness, and they stayed. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 35:04
But unfortunately, our minders knew what we were singing since.
Unknown Speaker 35:09
So, is that your minders?
Unknown Speaker 35:11
Yeah, two binders? Yeah. Three minders.
Unknown Speaker 35:15
So they was protecting you this you can see what they're
Unknown Speaker 35:18
what they're all about. Yeah. So they weren't too pleased. And so that's the
Unknown Speaker 35:23
same score there. Right. That that colored one there.
Unknown Speaker 35:25
Yeah. Yeah. That's,
Unknown Speaker 35:26
that's how I got in. I actually started giving sweets out and they let us in. They would they didn't want to at first. This was what they call a collective farm. Yeah. And it has a picture of all the lovely wheat, that grind. But actually, there's nothing there's
Unknown Speaker 35:40
actually double. Yeah, it's just,
Unknown Speaker 35:42
it's all propaganda. propaganda.
Unknown Speaker 35:45
Visual, that doesn't actually.
Unknown Speaker 35:46
Yeah. And this picture of the divide between the nominee along with a bigger turnout ever Why is it? I can say that a large cut off of that and look at that soldier?
Unknown Speaker 35:56
Yeah, that's a North Korean guard.
Unknown Speaker 35:59
Border Guard. Yeah. And the other buildings behind there are America on the American side, in Well, they're in the middle. These are the buildings in the middle of between the Americans. And yeah, so these are like blue for those listening in light blue tin hearts. But they will have they used to have meetings in there. I think they still have might have the odd one between the the south and the north, you know? Yeah. And yeah, so very interesting pictures.
Unknown Speaker 36:28
Yeah. So what's out there, Brian, that that one
Unknown Speaker 36:30
moves? Well, every now and then we have to listen to a lot of propaganda. So this was actually in the building. Yeah. And there's a North Korean soldier and one of the minders, and she's giving us a spiel about how they're going to bash the Americans up if they ever try and invade. Okay, lies,
Unknown Speaker 36:49
it's all lies,
Unknown Speaker 36:50
propaganda and lies. Yeah, is nothing but amazing, really interest. But I want to tell you a lovely story that happened again, we had to watch ourselves because you, you're not allowed to just go out and start speaking to people. Yeah. But this was, but they got used to the idea that we were Christians by then they just said, Oh, you've got Christians and they claim to have you see they've got one official church. One, one church. Yeah. Which is like just a joke, because they have paid Christians to be the official hide Christians. And they take like tourists, they're like Russian tourists. Okay, but anyway, so we used to say, prayer time, prayer time while we're traveling. So we'd stop and pray. Usually at a little place with a small cafe they used to have these roadside, and again, for tourists, hot selling shoes, just nuts and stuff, you know. So we were praying, and I noticed this woman sitting on a wall is just shown to the left hand side of the picture. Yes. So I thought, Oh, I wonder she couldn't take our eyes off us. And so when up to one of the mind is that lady I showed you before, and I bought holiday nuts. Too many too many Chocolate Factory squirrels. And I said, oh, I've got too many of these. Can I give this woman some other my nuts? Ah, so the minder said she was the nicest of the mind. Yeah, she was she she said, Okay, so I gave it to her. And as you can see, she put the nuts in her bag. Oh, yeah, I got so then. Then. The woman said, the woman I gave her not to sit to the mind. Why did he do this? And the mind asked me and I said, Well tell I'm some crazy guy from England. You see. So she did and she smiled. And then the minder walked away. And I said, because you because God loves you? Yeah. Well, you have to do that quietly. But with that science with actually with that.
Unknown Speaker 38:47
She got it.
Unknown Speaker 38:48
And when we drove around the box, I got I took this photo from a really good pitch from the bus. Yeah, as we drove away, she never stopped waiting until he disappeared. So I believe that was the secret believer captured in time a secret reliever. Brian is a fascinating journey. And we've got a good good stuff to come back with us and to talk to us about we've reached the end of this podcast and Brian, we thank you so much for joining with us and being so open talking about your life and, and everything that you've gone through. And we just want to say thank you for coming. Thank you today. And we will catch you in another few weeks time and you can continue this, this great story of the journey of your life. And Brian, could you close in prayer if anybody's listening today? Anyone that is just searching Christianity? Could you close in prayer? Thank you. Thank you, Lord for this time. Lord, I pray your blessings on everyone that has been listening. I just want to say to the Bible says there's only one name under heaven by which man can be saved the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus says I am the way the truth and the life. Nobody goes to the Father except through me.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai