Reverend Ben Cooper  0:05  
Hello and welcome. Thank you for joining us here this morning on our podcast at alien church in Swanley. Thank you so much for joining us today and everything that we're speaking about across the world of the podcast platforms. We thank you so much for sharing everything on social media and and everywhere where we're putting out these podcasts and the video stuff that we're doing. We just want to say thank you this morning but we welcome Sandra this morning, and we're talking about the persecuted church Good morning Sandra. Good morning.

How are you today. I'm well thank you.

It's so good to have you with us and we just want to say thank you for coming and chatting again on our weekly catch up. I know we missed last week. You're busy. You've been in the world of teaching again but it's so good to have you with us. Thank you, Sandra. Okay. What do you have for us today.

Sandra Robson  0:53  
Well, we'll just remind people The last time I was here was North Korea. We were looking at North Korea. And that was number one on the world watch list, and we discuss the system of Tucci, which has really affected the whole way that North Korea operates, and how it's put pressure on Christians and banned Christianity because it's all about the worship of the leader, that's how it's ended up, and because it's all about and self, and the juicy, an idea of self and. Oh doing everything you know and providing everything and all these things we talked about. And then we've got about we had about the prison, and about the labor camps and that's where a lot of Christians are but we also talked about the miracles and how the church is growing there, and we didn't have quite enough time for the test now I was going to give about this North Korean, who was at a conference, I was at, and she's managed to get asylum and some years ago and she came to the conference to tell us a bit about what it was like in one of the prisons and how she ended up there, and how she became a Christian so I thought that might be interesting and encouraging to people to hear so. But what she said was that one of her family was found out to be a Christian, and they took the whole family. So it was her grandfather who they found out. And so, not only did her grandfather and that part but she also ended up in prison. And obviously she was very bitter. And she didn't understand why you know this has happened and she had nothing to do with it. And for a long time, she, you know felt quite sorry for herself. But at the end of the prison, she

saw that

was another lady and she noticed that this lady was very quiet, and she seemed to be muttering, and she thought she may be mad. But somehow, she found out this lady was a Christian. And she thought, well this lady's praying to go perhaps there is a maker. She'd never thought about Christianity didn't know anything about it. Really what it was about. But she in her misery, because she said well Lord either die or, you know, and just know nothing. And perhaps there is somebody who loves me perhaps there is a creator. Perhaps that is so and so she decided that she would start and praying to this creator, and she sort of said, Well, you know, if you are who you know powerful and everything. Perhaps you can get me out of this prison. And that's what happened. Why did you really say how that happened. But she then escaped to China. And she just still didn't really understand what had happened. And, but God in. It's just amazing, you know, as there are people there, and he directed these people, and she found a church and she went into this church and she said I want to find Jesus I'm looking for Jesus who is Jesus. And they gave her a Bible and she became Christian.

Reverend Ben Cooper  4:33  
So can I backtrack a moment. So, we're hearing of this story that this, this person in. In this situation, have never heard of Jesus before I never heard of Jesus Christ. yeah. Suddenly she finds within herself she wants to pray to call to if there is a God out there. Then she starts to pray and then suddenly doors start to open. Yeah. And then she gets a Bible. It's amazing how God speaks to people that have never even heard of Jesus Christ of Nazareth never even heard of the God of Israel, but suddenly have a dream suddenly have a revelation. How does this work. I know

we don't know who's so

Sandra Robson  5:20  
desperate and she said that she was still she, she thought, What's the point, what's the point in my life. She has sort of fought here I am in this terrible place. And what's the point in my life. Can I watch Sandra. Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  5:36  
that's what she does quite how and when you, when you say that what is the point in my life. We're hearing this so much at this moment, what is the purpose of my life. I know we're looking at this lady here but there are many people that will be listening to this, this podcast. And in the situation that we are in at this moment in this covid 19 pandemic and we're getting tired of hearing this word, COVID, but it, it really is making humanity look at itself and saying, What is the purpose of my life. And it's quite a harrowing question to ask isn't it. Yeah, because we've been going about what we've been going about life we've been having families in families our families are then suddenly like this lady said, What is the purpose of my life. And it makes you think so deep in the book of Java's Book of Acts it says in the last days I'll pour out my Spirit on all flesh. So coming back to this this lady that that can it can only be divine intervention, we know,

Sandra Robson  6:40  
and probably this lady who I told you about, who's the Christian. She said, perhaps she was praying for as well. Yeah, so, Christians there. Yeah, in these terrible places in the concentration camps and they're praying for those others. And God hears their prayer, as well as a man, how it works,

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:59  
how it works, we don't know. But the human mind can't understand the why. Okay.

Sandra Robson  7:05  
Yeah, and we obviously were praying,

as well but I probably didn't pay for this one because yeah I suppose. This has happened yeah

Reverend Ben Cooper  7:13  
yeah sure but

Sandra Robson  7:14  
for others, asked me to pay,

Reverend Ben Cooper  7:17  
and at this moment when we, when we're praying for the world of the persecuted church. There are people in exactly the same situation as this person. Absolutely.

Sandra Robson  7:26  
And, and prayers go through walls, and go yeah yeah I mean, they

Reverend Ben Cooper  7:32  
penetrate the darkness.

Sandra Robson  7:33  
Absolutely. There's no barbed wire there's, there's nothing. And so this is it. I mean, it was a blessing to hear from this lady but there be so many others that we just don't know about. And we can be touching those lives for the brown. Yes.

Reverend Ben Cooper  7:53  
And I say amazing.

Sandra Robson  7:54  
This is so important, and people keep saying, you know, so many times they said we felt that somebody was praying for us we felt arms as if arms were around as,

Reverend Ben Cooper  8:07  
that's really powerful is really powerful to say that we felt yeah someone praying for us. Yeah. And this is a common. A common word that we are hearing, isn't it, that I felt someone praying. Yeah, God spoke to me. And we have to come back to Jalan the book of Acts in the last days. I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh visions and dreams young men will have visions and dreams and our own you know sons and daughters and it's fantastic that scripture, how it speaks very clearly sons and daughters will have visions and dreams. The Book of Acts, and the book of Job. Yeah, so Sandra that was a fantastic story to share with us on this Elan podcast, and we are just about to open the door to Nigeria. Now, this is a nation that I am not familiar with at all. Okay. And the persecution that goes on in Nigeria. So, can you start to open up and just tell us what we have today.

Sandra Robson  9:09  
Okay,

well it's been going on a long time, and release international are one of the organizations that do have links there. And so if you want to know, you know, lots of detail about it, release international are the ones barnabus also as a focus of bonobos so some of these organizations that support the persecuted church have particular countries which they focus on, and they have. Yes, and partners, and they have people who particularly have made links. And so I'm going to be using a lot of today about release internationals material. And so, in Nigeria, it's not all Nigeria. Those, but the part that is particularly being affected is the central plateau and northern Nigeria.

Okay. It started

with northern Nigeria, it's now increased and is now also in the central part A called the plateau and Nigeria is a very big place, obviously, and at the moment, Nigeria is in the news for other reasons. Listeners might know about. And to do with police brutality. What we are looking at the persecution, and it is contentious because people have seen this as a political issue. And, you know, many people who come from Nigeria, that's how they view it. And, but there is particularly now oppress on Christians and Christians are being killed, and some reporters have said is getting close to a genocide. So, yes, because of the numbers that are being killed because of the villages being completely burned. It's like they want to,

to

eradicate Christians from that part of the country, and take it over and make it Islamic. That's what seems to be going on it's a religious extremism. If people want to compare this they compare it with what was going on in a rack

and ran with ISIS.

It's a similar thing

Reverend Ben Cooper  11:35  
pattern.

Sandra Robson  11:37  
Yes, and

they believe that they get some of these Islamic extremists believe and religious extremists believe that they are bringing in, and the, they're they're sort of not our Jesus but they call it, ice in it ISIS. Yeah, this idea of a Messiah, and they are wanting to bring that in and bring the their rules and Sharia law and these things, but it is complex and, and you've got bucco Ram, that you may have heard about particularly with the Chibok girls who were kidnapped some time ago that did hit the news did, and that's to do with education they don't believe that girls should be educated. And so, particularly they they target

schools. A lot of

Christian Schools have been targeted, and the girls have been kidnapped and teachers have been killed. Because they don't believe that it's right for women to be educated, but they are also upsetting other people they are also attacking other places as well another Christian villages

Reverend Ben Cooper  12:59  
founder Could I just pulled a moment when you, when you say attacking, attacking the villages and. So, that is a pretty common pattern that we see in many countries, isn't it. That churches up on villages are burned families are split up yeah schools are attacked. Yeah, it seems to be very brutal, there seems to be exactly an exact formula for the word persecution, is it seems that whether it's in career, whether it's in Nigeria, whether it's in Syria, whether it's wherever it may be, there seems to be a pattern that seems to follow the word persecution doesn't they're they're like families are broken down. People are poor families are destroyed lives are taken churches are burned villages are swept out on burn through. So, this pattern is can, and is seen across these nations isn't it it's a pattern, and we're now we're talking about these, these girls that was caught up in these atrocities. Not long ago, wasn't very long ago now was at when I was captured. But yeah, so it's so it's a pattern that I see that is very satanic.

Sandra Robson  14:16  
Yeah, so very

mild isn't, you know, Miss direction and sadly you know there are people who get involved with it for money and you know they're given money to do drawings, you know, so the Fulani herdsmen

how it started with them was the land, they felt that the land pushed out okay and that's where the political

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:37  
issue political stuff comes in

Sandra Robson  14:39  
as well. And. But now, in a lot of cases they're not calling them herdsmen, they're calling them Fulani militia now.

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:49  
So they're using the word militia.

Sandra Robson  14:51  
Yes, because it's got a lot more violence. That's a strong

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:55  
word militia.

Sandra Robson  14:57  
And they've particularly gone for pastors that killed a lot of pastors. They then cause the whole village to have to flee for their lives. And so there's a lot of displaced people. And a lot of people in camps. And of course, so that's another issue with COVID, and how do you get food to these

people.

Some people have had to flee, and they've settled somewhere, and then they've been attacked again. And they've had to flee again. Some people have had part, some of their family have been injured or killed. And then, they've they fleed from that. And then they've suffered more. And, you know, so it's a very sad, very in it. It's very heavy,

very difficult,

Reverend Ben Cooper  15:54  
very, very difficult conversation when we, when we sit across the table, we see each other's eyes and one of us can well up get a tear. But as you were about to say, it's really important that we get this information out, we get the testimonies out we we educate people and people educate us through the greatness of release international open doors and all the other ministries Barnabas fun. We need to hear these stories. Yeah, these facts that are happening so that what for so that the church can pray, amen. because prayer changes thing. Amen. Pray, we know we've spoken we all know listening and myself and Sandra know the power of prayer. So, it is the power of prayer that will come against all the militia come against the violence. And how do we pray into that as well. Sandra what what do we pray for Is there any guidance like for these for these ministries that they give us, obviously we pray for peace. We pray for doors to be open, we pray for salvation. So there is, when you look at what do we pray for there is a there is a big list isn't there. But the Bible makes it very clear, doesn't it because Jesus. Jesus was persecuted, and Christ said if they persecuted me so will will they persecute you. So we need to be very careful in the West that we understand that this is a biblical pattern, this is a, this this will happen. Even though we have the power of prayer persecution has to take place for scriptures to be fulfilled. Because in my world of being a Christian, I want peace and I want to be heard. You know that's that's the way I am I will please please Lord please Lord, yes, then we hear these stories these brutalities, that are happening all around the world and these pictures that Sandra has in this magazine in front of us. So we need to pray for peace but also I believe Sandra, that we need to pray for peace for ourselves. For us, that are discussing these conversations. For those that are involved in the world of the persecuted church for those missionaries that go out there. So, as we see and as we hear and as we engage Christ gives us strength and gives us the ability so we can carry on doing what we do. You know, which is two fold is too far because you said something very important earlier. It is heavy. But it needs to be spoken about. Yeah, it's really important.

Sandra Robson  18:30  
Yeah, I mean I have a lot of information on Nigeria and I have been looking at it for quite some time and we've had, and speakers from open doors, haven't we and we've had service from release international and they have told us about the situation that's been ongoing for some for a lot of years but it has particularly increased in I say the last five years. And, and so I was looking at things and I have, you know, I have stories about wonderful testimonies of widows and who've then gone on to open trauma centers and encourage other widows support other widows. But when I was praying about law said, I want you to tell the facts as they are today as hard as it is my people need to know what's going on, how it is. And so they can pray with understanding and awareness of the situation

now.

So, that is how we heard it from the Lord. And today, that these, these particular things he wants to bring out but in that. It's to it's to encourage, and it's to enable a man it's to equip. And because it says here, helping Nigeria's struggling believers and if you, as I said if you think that there's been like they thought there's peace and then they've had some move and this is happening, you know, it would Wouldn't it, I mean we're struggling with a situation that will change.

Reverend Ben Cooper  20:05  
COVID-19. Yeah,

Sandra Robson  20:08  
we know. And the thing that comes out is about forgiveness and praying and saying, Lord, Lord, help them continue to forgive remind them as hard as it is when they see all these things happening in their families being destroyed and villages being destroyed that they say love your enemies, and they, and I will tell you about the testimony. Yeah, on that love found enemies and then maybe 544. And that is a particular thing they say you know for the young people as they see things that they won't retaliate. That's the the goading of the enemy that's what he wants to do. And in some ways they say some of the reason for what's going on is because these villages are very peaceful, and they're easy targets and people aren't arming themselves. So they're easy to take over. Yeah. And so that's a challenge,

Reverend Ben Cooper  21:10  
David and Goliath. You come against me with spear and Javelin you come against me with, with everything, but I come in the name of the Lord. There is something powerful about coming in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And as we've said before, smiles. Yes, you know, when you look at these photos and these pictures are going that are before Sandra. I've digressed very slightly, but Sandy has led me into a subject to when you look at this magazine release International, and it's called voice of the persecuted Christians a great magazine now the lady on the front there. It says helping Nigerians Nigerian struggling believers. So, every picture that Sandra is brought to us here at Ealing church. We see very clearly that these Christians are being persecuted, have one common thing upon themselves, and that is their smile, they have joy. They have peace.

Sandra Robson  22:12  
Yeah, they weep. They don't know runs, but then they have joy, they do and they want to carry on. And they you know they want to still spread the gospel this.

Reverend Ben Cooper  22:25  
Look at these pictures and yeah this tree pride.

Sandra Robson  22:29  
I mean I,

I've heard this guy speaking.

Reverend Ben Cooper  22:33  
Okay, so what's his name Sandra fishable Yes. Oh, we're trying to pronounce that in a moment in

Sandra Robson  22:40  
kobashi, the bishop,

Reverend Ben Cooper  22:44  
the Archbishop of Nigeria, or is he a province might be a province. Okay, yeah. So what page is that on that's on page nine page nine of the latest yeah release international magazine. Yeah, you will find these stories,

Sandra Robson  23:00  
and I was going to recommend it's called neither bomb, nor bullet, and it says is biography his biography. He's the Archbishop of Johns. That's very is

john Joss j s

Reverend Ben Cooper  23:14  
j s, Josh,

Sandra Robson  23:15  
yeah. Amazing, amazing. I mean, you know, they they've tried to kill him several times. But he's escaped and miraculously escaped, there's, you know, I can't go into it all. But he was, you know, just inspiring and he said about how, you know, they must continue because of the blood of the martyrs of those who went and gave them the gospel. He said it's now their turn to stand for the gospel Well,

Reverend Ben Cooper  23:48  
there's a time to stand.

Sandra Robson  23:51  
So where should we go now. Um, yes so, so the partners in, you know, they need trauma centers, because of what's going on. There's a lot of widows, so there's loans for businesses, and that's what a lot of the Christian relief organizations are doing their. And so that's an encouragement, and that's building up their faith and putting those arms and love around them, and enabling them to make a living. So that's something that is

Reverend Ben Cooper  24:36  
every generation going on there's a bit of rebuilding going on this there's there's there's hope. Yeah, well there's always hope we know there's always hope because that's what the scripture says there's always hope. But that's great that so there's villages are being rebuilt, there's there's families coming back together.

Sandra Robson  24:54  
Yeah, keep build. Keep going,

Reverend Ben Cooper  24:57  
keep going, they don't give up their relentless yeah keep going.

Sandra Robson  25:00  
So I'll just read this bit, and this latest in the release about some things have happened to give you an idea of what's going on. So this happened in a village in the plateau state. And this is a pastor is a young pastor and been there just two years. And, and on sadly on the sixth of April, he was, he was killed. She was expecting her baby. And she had gone for an appointment she said farewell to her husband and that's the last time she saw him, or gods that day Fulani militants lonnis attacked the village. And, yeah, he was shot dead. And, and they talk to a 65 year old survivor. And he explained how he miraculously was saved. He said he lay down quietly as the Fulani about 10 of them. Speaking in their language, they went into my house and they killed my sons and and his wife too. And oh god. And so, and then they headed for that pastor's house. They called out to him and I had more shots and the men came back to where I was lying and walked away into the dark. They thought he was dead, but he wasn't. So he said he escaped. That's the sort of thing they're going through,

Reverend Ben Cooper  26:34  
it's brutal.

Sandra Robson  26:35  
Yeah, so they estimate that these militants have killed as many as 19,000 people in Nigeria. 9000 19,000 Yes,

Reverend Ben Cooper  26:51  
in that province in that area

Sandra Robson  26:53  
and that

plateau area. Yeah. And this year, despite lockdowns and curfews more than 300 Christians have been killed in Kaduna state. And another hundred in parts of plateau state. Last week of July and the beginning of August alone saw attacks on 17 villages with that more than 75 people dead, and a further 5000 displaced from their homes. The partner communist commented, we have seen well planned well orchestrated systematic attacks on Christian communities that have nothing to do with a fight for grazing lands. That's what I told you about.

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:37  
So that suits land is always over territory.

Sandra Robson  27:41  
Yeah, but he's saying that this is systematic now it's not just a fight.

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:46  
That's very spiritual, over, over territory.

Sandra Robson  27:49  
Yeah, these attacks are driven by an Islamic ideology aimed at destroying the infidels, and in many places displacing them from their communities, while the government is either by design, or our mission,

not watching

the political correct narrative which is easier for the international community to swallow, which suits the Nigerian government well is to blame desertification and climate change.

Reverend Ben Cooper  28:25  
sounder listening to the stories I just thank God. I was born in the UK. I was born in this, this part of the world. And I thank God for the missionaries that go out there. Thank God for release international for the stories that they bring back to us. And we must emphasize to everybody listening. It is the power of prayer. That will break the satanic strongholds in these nations. And when we hear about pastors being killed. Wives being taken children being shot, we, we just have to call on our God, the God of Israel. We call on God and many people listen to this. It's very harrowing harrowing, you know, it can be very emotionally draining, but we need to press on you know we are covered in cotton wall here in the UK. We are very well protected. We may say that there's a persecution upon us, you know locked down and everything like that but we are going through, nothing, absolutely nothing compared to what our brothers and sisters are in the persecuted church. sharp right to beaten families stripped back pastors targeted churches burnt down so for all of us listening in the UK. We need to pray that God will give us understanding God will give us peace, and God will open our eyes more because we are so comfortable. We are wrapped, we are wrapped in cotton wool. We really are and we really need to get into the Word of God more. We need to press into prayer more, you know, the biggest thing that we fight for over here is someone sitting my is someone that is sitting in my seat that Sunday. I've sat there for X amount of years you know but this needs to stop. We need to grab hold of Jesus and pray for our brothers, pastors abroad ministers or book abroad missionaries abroad in these areas of these villages that saundra is looking at at this moment. And we need to keep praying, we need to keep praying it's so important that the church in the West, we pray, and we pray, and we pray.

Okay, Sandra.

Sandra Robson  30:55  
Yeah, so he says that in asking the pastors in that area. And what he knows he says, Ask the person we asked for are for the pastors who are facing this challenge that they will be able to prove God's love in these tragedies Amen, while they equally try to stay alive so said Please pray for the pastors. And so, that's something we can do. So we can pray with greater understanding of the situation we can write to our MP. And, you know say to him about this situation and bringing up the agenda. So that's very important

Reverend Ben Cooper  31:35  
isn't it yeah right to local MP Yeah, mpgn, hazur, the parliament, bringing this to light. I know alien there's within the alien movement there is a representation of alien church, and the movement in the world of politics. So maybe we could link them up as well and we could, because that's very, very important so whatever denomination that we are in. It's really important as we approach MPs, and we asked them to look into this because this has been getting more headlines spaces in in Parliament over the years. It's starting to get more of more of a voice it's coming up, so we need to keep praying into that as well. So I just wanted to say that as Sandra mentioned, the politics on this it's really important to write in to the MP, and to get to get our word into the Houses of Parliament.

Sandra Robson  32:33  
Yeah. And as I was saying, and pass the ban yesterday they were looking at the bishop Treasurer's Report, and how far things that got on that, yes, and, and where it can go and I did contact my MP about particularly about the situation with the women, and widows, and he said that you know that they were looking at that. But we do need to pray about that that that will go forward, because the guy that was heading it up has resigned and they need to find somebody else and pray that a good person, or somebody well equipped, who can cope in these days because obviously there are a lot of pressures on them. And so when you do write to your MP open doors were particularly saying to encourage them and say thank you for the work that they're doing during COVID and how you appreciate it. And, and then to say about what the issue is, because they're under a lot of pressure and

a lot of

stress. So, we need to support them as well. And, as I say, when if you are able to, and they do have different projects and things which you can give to to support widows, to support trauma care centers. There are occasions when you can send cars of encouragement and support and for the bereaved and the suffering. And also, I will be listening online, on the fourth of November, to a guy that is a partner, out in Nigeria okay this name because of security reasons, if people want to know they can find out on the website of release International. But, you know, if you really do want firsthand information, and you do want this verified because as I say I know this is a contentious issue for quite a lot of people politically. So, you know, that will help. And, and, as I say it's about us thinking about forgiveness and just I seek in the Lord about that, even when we pray that we remember to pray for these, these militants who are misguided pray for the young ones that they don't get pulled into it because of money or being offered food at this time with COVID. There's a lot of different things. There's a lot of temptation. And so we really need to seek the Lord that for his body that they will continue. And the love will be there. And though they're hard pressed and they're grieving that will persevere and the gospel will continue. Amen. Thank God for the leaders such as Bishop of Josh, who is encouraging and that he will have the strength and the energy to support the our brothers and sisters where they're at and I thank God for the different partners that go out there and you know risking their lives. I just thank them thank the Lord for them. And just want to finish with this rose. Who is the widow of that pastor who was martyred back in April. Okay. And she says, Yeah, and she's given birth to her third daughter, and she named her patients because she says patients. Yes, she is determined to wait patiently on the Lord for strength, and to see his purpose in her loss, responding to the martyrdom of her husband she said the evil man think killing a pastor will stop the gospel, nothing will stop the gospel of Christ. My prayer is that his killers will get to know the Jesus I know I do forgive them. And I will pray that the Lord saves their sums.

Reverend Ben Cooper  36:33  
Amen. what a prayer. What a beautiful prayer to finish on this morning Sandra, we thank you for bringing so much to the table, and the effort, and the strain and the emotional things that you go through as well to to deliver what's got to be delivered even though we might have a 35 minute or 45 minute podcast once a week. We thank You for Your, your commitment to Jesus, we thank you for, for what you do here in Elian church, we just want to say thank you, Sandra, and our prayers and our heart is with all those around the world that are going through but Sandra thank you so much for joining us this morning, my god bless you and strengthen you and what a beautiful prayer to finish on. God bless you, Sandra. Thank you for listening. You've been listening to myself Reverend Ben Cooper and Sandra this morning here at Ealing church. Thank you so much. Please share everything we speak about, we will catch you very very soon next week on our podcast regarding the persecuted church. Thank you. Bye bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai