Reverend Ben Cooper  0:08  
Hello and welcome. Thank you for joining us here on our podcast at Elim church in Swanley. You're joining myself Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon pinch back this afternoon. Hi, Simon.

Simon Pinchbeck  0:17  
It's great to be here. Did

Reverend Ben Cooper  0:19  
you like did you like a little high? Oh, as a good little high on it.

Simon Pinchbeck  0:22  
My friends, you're going the right way and so

Reverend Ben Cooper  0:25  
gotta right way it's so good to have you with us here. You know, we push these podcasts out and we just asked if you will share them out wherever you are. whatever is going on in your life. You know, this is really important. We talk about real stuff with Simon is involved in real men for Christ. That's true right ministry that's been birthed that's coming out Simon has got a great testimony. He loves God he following Christ and that's what's so real about him. And I'm blessed to have him in my life and it's great that he's with us in this tiny little back room. You know of rain coming through the roof at Swanley

Simon Pinchbeck  1:00  
Table coffees great and the biscuits are great as well.

Reverend Ben Cooper  1:03  
I got your shopping trolley outside, you're ready to go. It's so good to have you with us. You know we love beer banter going on these podcasts we do. But one thing is for sure is that we love Jesus.

Simon Pinchbeck  1:13  
We love Jesus we and they say it's amazing then you know you mentioned the real men for Christ and just off the bat there are one of our last YouTube videos was with a guy called john Mancha. Now if you like football, you know Johnny Mancha was he was a Swindon Town, Tottenham but a big Westham player and amazing testimony Ben this guy and Are you full on for the Lord and and follow the old the old adage that if a man comes to focus on these old families come to follow them in price guff coming to coming to the Lord and he's great. If you get a chance, just look on YouTube. And remember Christ is some funny stories as well from this because he he

almost came out and been but but he declined,

Reverend Ben Cooper  2:08  
said hi.

Simon Pinchbeck  2:10  
Everything's on time. But jonk declared himself a Christian while he was still West Ham playing. And Harry Redknapp said to me, he said, Is this true? He said, he said, Yeah, he said, Well, you probably when you want a horse to win or something.

So yeah.

It's got a great testimony. And yeah, there's some of it. There's some real good stuff on there. The last video we did was about millionaires and up on our stories in prison ministry. So we've both been involved in prison ministry. And as tells a great story about when he was out in post war prison in South Africa, you know, so yeah, some real good stuff, encouraging stuff, and it really builds your faith up as well.

Reverend Ben Cooper  3:00  
So where can people Where can the listeners find you straight on YouTube?

Simon Pinchbeck  3:04  
Just go just go to YouTube real men for Christ. And we at the moment, we've got about 10-11 videos on there. A multitude of stuff.

Reverend Ben Cooper  3:14  
covering a multitude of sins are multitude the stuff

Simon Pinchbeck  3:18  
and stuff

Reverend Ben Cooper  3:19  
guys good tell on It's so good to have you with us today silent in that what we're gonna what we're going to talk about, firstly, we're not going to be about Jesus because He is the way the truth.

Simon Pinchbeck  3:27  
Yeah, totally. So what I was led to the sweet really, really, this is been really interesting, and it's really encouraged me and I've been excited to tell this. But it's about the body of Christ. Yes. And the army of God. Okay, and they're not the same, not the same. Right? Okay. So the body of Christ is the church isn't it? Yeah. But that includes every single aspect of the church Yeah, that's so you'll choose it'll include them pupil as yeah Sunday morning worries that worship the whole nine yards Yeah, the fish the leaders cookie. The whole nine yards. Yeah, the pastors the leaders and but it also includes men and women a strong faith it does

Reverend Ben Cooper  4:23  
Yeah, yeah. So

Simon Pinchbeck  4:26  
the army of God is

a men we're going to stick with men really mean women? Well, of course but yeah, stick for this morning we'll stick with a guy's the army God is coming out of something called a remnant. Now elaborate. Well, a remnant is God from our Bible. Yeah. See, through every all the Old Testament and all the New Testament, the Lord as always kept a remnant. So Amongst, amongst all the stuff that have been going on or amongst Order, order, mayhem has been going on amongst everything God has always

kept

a remnant of men and women who are faithful to Him, whose hearts are with him. Yes. So this is where he's getting his army from.

Reverend Ben Cooper  5:25  
And that's quite small, isn't it?

Simon Pinchbeck  5:26  
It's not big. It's not big. And it gets smaller. Yes. As

Reverend Ben Cooper  5:32  
as religious realize as being realized as religion grows. Yeah. As the the business model of Church and the organized church all grows, you suddenly realize when you have a crisis counseling happens, you realize that the remnant that there are real believers is very small. It's very small. Yeah, it's like a little it's like it's like a big onion, isn't it? You got a song and you start peeling back? Most likely you remember the dogs? Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck  6:01  
So one out one

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:02  
out one Hang on a minute Hang on a minute. So suddenly now this is really important to understand that it comes back to the 12 doesn't it look what Christ done with just the crazy 12 disciples look look look what was achieved with with them and through them and how to use them. These were real guys, weren't they? They was real guys their CVS didn't match up. You know proper, proper fellows fellows their CVS you like the church when the chosen

Simon Pinchbeck  6:33  
now I would I would have

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:34  
never chosen which are you and I were chosen to be to be to be followers of Kratos you wouldn't know you can't even put this into words.

Simon Pinchbeck  6:43  
Not what I did. You know what

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:44  
I did? Look at the characters the Sons of Thunder. Oh, yeah. The fisherman. The Brother's you can imagine first evangelist Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck  6:54  
thousand come to find you know,

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:56  
you can imagine what their their conversations must have been like they must have been fiery Roug, rough, you know, I mean, I didn't have moisturize a lot. I have to die me and a lot a day. I was just

Simon Pinchbeck  7:09  
put its needs muscling as far

Reverend Ben Cooper  7:10  
as you know, keeping up with church and trying to keep up with the culture of the church that we've bred we bred a load of limp men that lead Yeah, with our Come on. Let's not beat around you know, we need warriors. We need David's we need anointed leaders were getting critical. So if you

Simon Pinchbeck  7:27  
get into the Bible, you realize Yeah,

that God is always kept a remnant. Yes. Fool, no matter what you see man going on, you know, you look at in Jeremiah and in places that he's always had a remnant of, of men and women that are faithful to him with the hearts of totally and at least

Reverend Ben Cooper  7:51  
the heart, isn't it? Yeah. It's the heart. It's like David David's failings, but his heart was after God, the army of God is coming out of this room. Yeah. It's raised up for this time, at this

Simon Pinchbeck  8:04  
moment for such a time as this for such a time as this for where you're living. And where you're working

Reverend Ben Cooper  8:11  
praise God.

Simon Pinchbeck  8:14  
People suddenly think

to be this man of God, I have to go off and do this, that and the other. No, no, no,

Reverend Ben Cooper  8:24  
no, no, just stay where you are. Stay where you are. Follow Jesus. That is the most critical thing that anyone could ever do in our life is to be a Jesus follower. To follow Jesus Christ not the fourth gospel but that we're talking about the God of Israel listening following him through the Word of God

Simon Pinchbeck  8:45  
and don't run before him just be still be still and wait till him for him to open a door so he got you we can only give him our hearts We ain't got nothing else

Reverend Ben Cooper  8:56  
got nothing you can't buy your way through

Simon Pinchbeck  8:58  
and come by whatsoever so yeah works is like filthy rags and it

Reverend Ben Cooper  9:03  
is it's pointless it's point

Simon Pinchbeck  9:04  
so the Lord is looking for your heart is looking through all that stuff. He's looking through all the work you do order order ministry you think you're doing all that all the great stuff you've and he's looking your heart is looking for men or women maybe men have a different state men have a different state we don't see that so much these days. You know we read in the Bible you just said 12 men have a different state these men were were something else. We don't we we think of you know, the Whitworth so Wiggles, was that the Wesley's right yeah, these men? Yeah, you know, we all we get on it on a lot of the time on the TV or?

Reverend Ben Cooper  9:50  
Yes.

Simon Pinchbeck  9:51  
Then characters you know, you know, you know, yeah, you know, you name names

Reverend Ben Cooper  9:56  
without Yeah, well, you know, it's like, yeah, it's

Simon Pinchbeck  10:00  
But men who maybe bend down for into church

that's a big one in men who don't fit into the church. But no, they love the Lord. I want to do something for him. But but the Church says, No, you've got to, you've got to do it this way. You've got to be that way. And these fellas go, I can't, I can't do I can't

Reverend Ben Cooper  10:19  
I can't do that. I can't, I can't be shaped into the person you want to be. Because that's not my character. That's not me. If you don't take me as I am, I don't fit in. I don't fit. I don't fit in your club. I don't fit into the club. So to get disillusioned, again, disillusion or a church and your face gets knocked and your thoughts get knocked on you. Your upbringing where all these people have been brought up in church, and trying to be molded, I think it is dangerous to be brought up in religion. Because you get into this robotic programming where you've got this circuit board around you your program to do and to be when actually, I've got to be who I am. With all my failings, because it has crashed that died on the cross.

Simon Pinchbeck  11:04  
No one else no one else. See, I've got to be who I am. I just

Reverend Ben Cooper  11:07  
got to be I am.

Simon Pinchbeck  11:09  
In Christ in Christ. And Christ in me.

Reverend Ben Cooper  11:13  
Yes.

Simon Pinchbeck  11:14  
You know, I was in ministry for a number of years, because it's not just the churches. I tried, really to fit into that ministry. But was it

Reverend Ben Cooper  11:24  
exhausting? exhausting? Did you try to

Simon Pinchbeck  11:26  
fit it was frustrating. It was exhausting. And I couldn't understand.

Reverend Ben Cooper  11:31  
Yeah, I know, you know, feeling. So you've gone into this ministry and you it's this. It looks like good on the outside. And yeah, they're doing great things that you try to, to look and to be you try to mold yourself trying to mold myself to sell comandi. So the church? God, this is such a difficult thing to articulate. Because what we got is, is you got the potter in the world. You've got the potter. Yeah, right. I am a lot of old clay. I cannot do nothing without the Masters hands. But the religious hands try to mold me into something I'm not. And I'm trying to make myself into something I'm not. I'm trying to be someone that I'm not.

Simon Pinchbeck  12:19  
And God saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, Ben, I made you the way you are. Because you can reach and I love you. But because you can reach people that that

Reverend Ben Cooper  12:30  
person can't reach. But then you go, I've got to be molded into this church robot, I've got me I've got to be swept into this, it become almost like a program person. You're not happy, your faith isn't work and nothing's ticking the boxes in the church.

Simon Pinchbeck  12:48  
And I can understand I can understand a lot of stuff and confusion was shown to me you're not happy? You're not happy? Yeah. Is this there is is a frustration there? You know?

Reverend Ben Cooper  13:02  
Because the same frustration

Simon Pinchbeck  13:04  
can either plan for someone to come to faith they know there's not follow this plan, follow this step? No, because the Holy Spirit can go bang down

Reverend Ben Cooper  13:16  
You're in. And the thing is, we've been called in Korea before the very beginning of time. So what we got around the stand is that the church and religion will try to mold me into a goody two shoe, two shoes, you know, looking right smelling, right? all that sort of stuff, when actually, my character needs help. But whilst not dealing with my character is not dealing with my failings. It's not dealing with that. It's all external stuff. It's all external stuff. I'm really coming to the real heart of me, helping me to address the problems I've got helping me to live for Jesus trying to mend you

Simon Pinchbeck  13:53  
into their theology, their doctrine. ation, yeah, what fits

Reverend Ben Cooper  13:57  
for that culture, not

Simon Pinchbeck  13:59  
really looking at me looking at your work. You know, what can we you know, where can we use this guy? What's his gift to us? Well, yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:07  
I think you're an evangelist, or I think your pastor, we think we think when actually no, it's God.

Simon Pinchbeck  14:14  
What are the Lord saying?

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:15  
Yeah, I think there are a lot of a lot of people, a lot of men in ministry that shouldn't even be in the ministry that there is a lot of square pegs in round holes. So yeah, that is the truth. I see it all the time. And the thing is, they're there because there's a business model. And also they're there because they, they can speak well. But, and they can relate slightly. But what you got to understand that is God to anoint God called God. God gives the call and God gives the gift there. It's all that and we're in a world where, where the church is very opinionated, and we've got pastors leading churches that shouldn't be related. I got preachers that console preachers, you got evangelists, you've got all this stuff going on. And when sorry, when a crisis comes, and suddenly you see this shot on that close This happens when that happens. You get rocked in your face. You get knocked careful, yeah, you're not careful, you can get rocked in your face. So this remnant is very, very small. It's

Simon Pinchbeck  15:09  
very small. But this is what God's saying. And why is

Reverend Ben Cooper  15:12  
a remnant a remnant is someone that really believes in Jesus totally.

Simon Pinchbeck  15:16  
So what God's saying he's old enough with all this stuff, and he's calling men. He's calling men of action. Men of faith, true faith. real true. We're standing on a book, men who could stand on a word of God, but not a word of men. Yeah, the main difference was a huge difference in it. So the Word of God and we look at the word of man. If it doesn't align itself with a word of God, we don't even bother with it.

Reverend Ben Cooper  15:48  
man's word cannot align with God's word. Because God's word is spiritual. God's word is his food to the to the spirit to the inner us, but math and feeds the external to materialism free to the outside and what our eyes like the sugar coated candy stuff that everyone's attracted to, you know, this

Simon Pinchbeck  16:10  
this condition remnants gonna he's calling them out right now. So they're not coming out the politicians, the media, the journal salacious, none of that stuff.

Reverend Ben Cooper  16:23  
They're rough diamonds,

Simon Pinchbeck  16:24  
men who believe God's Word is true a day yesterday and forever.

Reverend Ben Cooper  16:28  
His Word never changes.

Simon Pinchbeck  16:30  
These guys aren't politically correct. Believe me?

Reverend Ben Cooper  16:34  
Correct? Correct. Exactly. There's no

Simon Pinchbeck  16:39  
correctness.

Reverend Ben Cooper  16:40  
That's true, because political agendas cannot line up with God's agenda. Because political agendas are completely different everywhere. Everywhere. God's word is the same yesterday, today and forever more. But political agendas, depending on what party you're with will be different. We think we're right. Because we're growing. We think we're right, because we're red. We think we're right, because we're blue. So their agenda is different in different but God's agenda. What is God's agenda? JOHN? 316.

Simon Pinchbeck  17:11  
Yeah, this is except his son, Jesus, except his son. Turn away from all the stuff you've been getting involved with in the world. Totally repent, except his Son, Jesus Christ said a word. So you said

Reverend Ben Cooper  17:26  
a word brother. You said repentance. Yeah. That's a foreign word. I haven't heard that word before.

Simon Pinchbeck  17:32  
Yeah, that's a word. Do you want a match?

Reverend Ben Cooper  17:34  
I haven't heard that word repentance. I've got a different gospel going on around certain areas. Grace, Grace has covered me.

Simon Pinchbeck  17:44  
Yeah. Well, it's true. You know, it's true. So you bend God is calling these men. What's he calling for? To stand up for his kingdom? To advance his kingdom to advance the kingdom to advance the kingdom and? And to take ground?

Reverend Ben Cooper  17:59  
Are we looking at the characters like you could say, Joshua, and Caleb,

Simon Pinchbeck  18:03  
these sort of characters? Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  18:05  
going mad, God is evil. But we're amongst a load of religious people that are bringing a bad report. And where I should have gotten a promised land in a handful of days, it's taken, they've taken me 40 years away from the promise

Simon Pinchbeck  18:18  
you were amongst guys who say we're going to do it this way. But these fellas Oh, no, that's right. We're doing it this way. This is the way to do it. God, you know, when we, these guys, this remnant, the Lord wants us to take ground. We want them to hold a grant. Unless is there's two different things that we can, we can take the ground, but it's holding the ground is is vitally important for the kingdom, because the Bible says the battle belongs to the Lord. And also the scripture says every place that the soul of your foot shall tread upon is your territory.

Reverend Ben Cooper  18:58  
So there is it spiritual, it's spiritual. Yeah, but I cannot address and deal with the spiritual in the natural but the outer layer of this remnant they're like where they've been covered or where they've been hidden. And God is raising up the remnant and then we started to see in different areas. Religion just deals with the fleshy things when the remnant of got a hold tight to the word

Simon Pinchbeck  19:22  
now I'm gonna align this because I you know, I'll be honest with you, I read this somewhere and I'll put my own slant on it but okay, but this will appeal to you or no will

bend June 6 1944.

d day, did it.

Yep. And the weather report was it was gonna be fine day but it wasn't it was. The weather was a bit a bit choppy here the weather the waves were coming up. So here we have an army a mast head. To move forward, yep. And what's the body of Christ doing? standing on the shoreline waving nice and say, yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  20:08  
Praise the Lord.. The skies

Simon Pinchbeck  20:10  
have been this. There's no bombers coming over. It's all fine. Praise the Lord. Go gotta go. We love you. God loves you guys who want to have a go. Yeah, we'll go. Yeah, I want to go and they'll jump into the bugs. Yes. Right. And I'll go off. They'll go off. What happens? What happens? storms start coming in. Yeah. And so a lot of guys will go water.

Reverend Ben Cooper  20:37  
didn't sign up for this

Simon Pinchbeck  20:39  
sign

Reverend Ben Cooper  20:40  
up for this sort of sign

Simon Pinchbeck  20:42  
up. Yeah. Oh,

Reverend Ben Cooper  20:46  
hang on a minute. I really don't

want to hang on a minute.

It's like, it's like David and Goliath. like David went up to take some sandwiches and that bit paraphrasing a bit talk to his brothers. And just check on his brothers But why was up with his brothers, suddenly, this big lump comes out across the other side of the valley. But then you got King Saul when you've got all the armor, and you've got all them guys. Now, it's like David, a young shepherd boy amongst all these fighting warriors. And that's what we've got at the moment, isn't it? It's like, loads of it looks good. Lots of armory is polished. swords claim, you know helmet of salvation on all that King soul standing, they're all looking good in the sunlight, that they're going to really give it to that that giant, they're gonna make use of it. But as soon as the enemy started voicing himself What happened? David was on his own. And

Simon Pinchbeck  21:45  
I've been to I've been to christian men's events where literally, you maybe have 1000 or so friends. Okay. And the call is who wants to get into the battle? And everybody just oh, wow, frosty afternoon?

Reverend Ben Cooper  22:07  
Tuesday afternoon. What did I say? What did they say? What was that?

Simon Pinchbeck  22:12  
So so so we have

taken the D day since then. We've got guys who suddenly are in a boat, but they're going I'm not getting in the landing craft. I can't

I can't get in and

get it. The storms. Yeah, too much to the troubles and worries too much. But then you've got guys who go, what I'll get into landing craft. I'll take the next step further. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. So they jump into the landing craft. I love a gun. But these fellows might not be properly trained. They might not know quite what they're going into. They might have had a huge breakfast that morning. Feeling not so great. You know, and when they jump out and they craft a sink. Yeah. You know, the the, the Americans on D day are trained in Sherman tanks in lakes to come out of the landing craft and go up. Yeah, because they hadn't. They hadn't. They hadn't taken account for it being a bit stormy. And when tanks came out, they were just filled with water and sank. Yeah, so you know, can everyone inside sadly. So this is where we are. we've, we've some of these fellows. They, they're keen, but then don't know what they're doing. Because we haven't prepared for the storm because they don't prepare for the storm. They're not properly trained. And so they sink because the

Reverend Ben Cooper  23:39  
church has taught me the sun's out. Because everyone

Simon Pinchbeck  23:41  
said, it's family days. It's

Reverend Ben Cooper  23:44  
lovely here. But then

Simon Pinchbeck  23:45  
so then you get guys who go on Okay, I'll make it to the shore. But what happens on the shoreline, but when the enemy sees these guys bounces? They're sitting on top. You're exactly right. And he's going to throw his fiercest weapons at a mini. Yeah. And he's going to pin him down. Yeah, and some of these guys are going to freeze Yeah, face down and kind of froze. I can't go any

Reverend Ben Cooper  24:16  
I can't go any further. I can't go

Simon Pinchbeck  24:18  
any further. Fear is

Reverend Ben Cooper  24:19  
nailed me. So from

Simon Pinchbeck  24:21  
a massive army, we're now getting into just a few first a few. Look up, look around and go with moving. We're moving and look around and their way to each other and go Yeah, let's go. This is not gonna worry me This is an enemy is like a roaring lion. But I know if I stand up to him, he's gonna he's defeated. And I know and if I stand up to him, the Lord's gonna be going to be with me. And so I was looking around and we get like minded men around them and they start to move and they start to move forward and I take in inches to start with them.

Reverend Ben Cooper  24:59  
That's that's important.

little steps, little steps little steps steps of faith

Simon Pinchbeck  25:06  
because inches might yards. Yeah yards might miles and there was a and they're not giving up that ground now,

Reverend Ben Cooper  25:14  
Not giving up the ground because now we're in the understanding that every place that the sole of my foot shall tread upon is my territory is your territory.

Simon Pinchbeck  25:21  
Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  25:22  
and it's only my territory cuz I'm going in faith and I'm not going in my own strength that's it. I'm going I'm going

Simon Pinchbeck  25:30  
I saw a film some years ago and they

Reverend Ben Cooper  25:36  
love the time enough sorry. Oh Crikey has

Simon Pinchbeck  25:38  
a story behind them

it's like Pinocchio seven

Reverend Ben Cooper  25:47  
Okay, yeah. Well

Simon Pinchbeck  25:50  
there was seven dimension was Yeah, yeah but the government side we can only meet at six Oh, yeah.

I'm not happy

Reverend Ben Cooper  26:02  
about that I've been on

Simon Pinchbeck  26:05  
any given Sunday.

Reverend Ben Cooper  26:07  
I've never seen it was about

Simon Pinchbeck  26:10  
American football team and the coach was output Chino, Tony d'amato is paraphrase what he said, he said, life is a game of inches. So much in a very so small lives again. And so taking this ground is is a matter of inches. And yeah, margin of error is so small, but, but. But faith, patience submission, in following Jesus Christ and following is what you say all the time, but it's about following following Jesus.

Reverend Ben Cooper  26:43  
Now that can be the hardest thing to do. Because you're battling outside stuff. You're trying to focus on Christ, and you've got all hell breaking out around you. And you're trying not to go back to your old ways. You're trying to focus you're, you're in this battle, you've got bullets coming over your head, and you're just trying to push in, you're trying to push in, push, just push it in, you think Come on, I got to get a little bit more, a little bit more just a bit more. Just Just come on Jesus Lord helped me to, to put one foot in front of the other side, it just helped me not

Simon Pinchbeck  27:13  
just you're hanging on by your finger. Some days, you know, we spoke about it on the coffee break about forgiving. And

I say that was a big, a big hurdle

for guises. Goodness. But that's long gone for

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:29  
the moment. But you want to deal with all this stuff in my head, trying to deal with it in my head and it don't only get to your head, it gets your heart, it gets your heart he can almost feel the poison creeping in. And you're trying to battle this. So you've got I've got inner bullets as well. Does that mean I've got you're trying to kill myself? So I'm fighting myself? I'd fight myself more than a fight because you know,

Simon Pinchbeck  27:51  
and and what people do I make the mistake of saying they say all the enemies on my case today? Yeah, no, no, yeah. He's planted that in your head, and he's gone on to someone else. He's gone down Costa and can't see you out. So you can take? Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  28:07  
because he left you with that. And you're struggling with it. So that's the that's what the enemy uses. He drops the seed. Yeah, he drops the seed. And it just bounces off. We just, they just go to and then I am the one grappling with it. Yeah. And that's like, God help me place Lord help me. And you're praying it for and you're trying to press through and you're tired and you're exhausted. And then the person or the issue that you're trying to deal with arises itself and you're, you're trying your battle in the enemy, you dislike it following Jesus takes faith.

Simon Pinchbeck  28:43  
This is what we're talking about. It takes fight with this remnant, see that all that stuff you're going through is another strengthening of your faith. And another test real it's a test. The Bible

Reverend Ben Cooper  28:56  
makes it very clear. and testing of your faith. And Jesus,

Simon Pinchbeck  29:00  
you'll direct the army. Yeah, it will direct them through the minefield. Yes, you'll direct them. Yeah. Beyond the machine gun fire. Yes. into every enemy, territory, and enemy territory.

And what

will you do? What does he want? And what does the Lord want? Then? He wants more songs. Yeah, he wants more songs. enemy territory.

Reverend Ben Cooper  29:22  
Yeah, you need to be a lot. He can't be asleep in religion. You can't be sleeping in the pews. You can't be listening to weak messages because if you're going into if you get dropped over enemy lines with a false gospel, you're in trouble. Either you better pull your trash out and give it a reserve you literally travel and you

Simon Pinchbeck  29:43  
know been that's one of the reasons why. Why we started real man for Christ because yeah, blessum I've been in churches and I've looked around and I've gone who could rely on it if the battle got and I'm not ready to go fierce right now. Fellas here that I could rely on you know so we need to look around and see who my journey oh yeah that guy what is or isn't that yeah yeah who on my journey with who's gonna know like I was described before like I was with the in the police with shields yes you need to rely on each call the left and the right

Reverend Ben Cooper  30:19  
they've got yeah they've got yeah they'll carry you there help you in time so when you're talking about going into enemy lines now that's like the spies were sent out yeah it's not as spies sent out is sent out into the promised land it's given you but in that land your enemies living as well so but

Simon Pinchbeck  30:39  
but the Lord God has made it clear that follow me on you defeat these people fear pretend in it fear I will take so all of a sudden we're in the enemy enemy territory oh wow you know so is the fear gonna overtake these guys,

Reverend Ben Cooper  30:55  
Joshua and Caleb said

Simon Pinchbeck  30:58  
we will move to different state. And it

Reverend Ben Cooper  31:00  
makes it very clear in the book of Numbers where where God said as for Caleb, he's got a different spirit

Simon Pinchbeck  31:08  
or a different spirit and these. So all of a sudden we've just got these few guys a few a few guys yet men have a different spirit. Men have a different state, we're moving forward, and they're claiming enemy territory. How do we? How do we hold that terror?

Reverend Ben Cooper  31:26  
You can't do it in the flesh. You cannot hold that in any way shape or form in the natural realm. The only way that you can hold that position is to be like a Joshua, someone that's got a different spirit, David a heart after God. You've got to be for God. Because you can't survive in the enemy territory in your natural self.

Simon Pinchbeck  31:51  
If the Lord wants more souls, what do we do? We have to disciple them guys who are like, yeah, we have to walk with them. Yeah, as you said, you know, in the in the spirit, we have to walk with them. Because if we don't, they kind of fall back into enemy hands. Oh, that's right. So we've got to take those souls. Yeah, they're the enemy for God. We've got to bring them on board with Christ. And then we've got to walk with them to make sure they're firmly established to make sure that they then go on to do the same thing as what were the exactly right

Reverend Ben Cooper  32:25  
in the multiplication. That's right in the New Testament. When Christ went into the garden, our guest similarly, this is really, really important. He said three times he said the same thing. Watch and pray that you do not fall into temptation. Temptation will leave Oh, who tempts me the tempter Yeah, the devil is a liar. He will tempt me so I've got to watch and pray. The more I watch and pray I'm watching out what was a watchman doing he is watching for what is watching for the enemy who's watching for the enemy. I'm watching you know what I'm watching spiritually. I'm discerning I'm trusting and when you look at what's happening COVID-19 before this hit the door COVID-19 of the church and Religion The church was making a massive noise it looked enormous around the world now split a different denominations, but now it's all been stripped back to just the remnant the remnant

Simon Pinchbeck  33:23  
yeah

Reverend Ben Cooper  33:24  
that's what I really believe what we're seeing in the world of the church is the remnant us are being even done that said a word expose that you What the What's happening is raised up you'll be raised at a remnant is being raised up the church is a lot

Simon Pinchbeck  33:42  
because there's so much fear out there. Exactly. And what it one what the Lord wants. He's looking at your heart and going here's a man. Yeah, yeah, perfect. Yeah, this perfect. He's trying to do his best he's trying to he's following my son Jesus Christ. And he's following Jesus. I can use this guy. Yeah, I can use him. And you know, I can use him so so we're we're looking after these feathers. The winning souls and when the after him so they don't fall back. We're snatching them out of the enemy's grip. That's right. And we're bringing them on board with the remnant now. Ben, every army as a supply chain, without chain, you're cut off, you ain't gonna make it you're not gonna make it. He ain't gonna make it you're not gonna make you'll be you'll be isolated to our faithful you are you're not to be isolated. You're gonna be starved out you're going to be you're going to be not connected. You're going to be an account on so as a as a remnant of God's army. What is God's supply chain? It's the prayer warriors that are praying, night and day for these people. advancement of the prairie children are nothing without these prayer, prayer warriors. These are the little old ladies in the church. Yeah, the guys that yeah, that just just want to be praying out there. Just be praying together, praying for the army, you know, see the remnant, the advances, we said that will be halted. You know, he wouldn't get anywhere without without a prayer science. But when you when you look at these big established churches and all that, where are the prayer meetings? I don't

Reverend Ben Cooper  35:32  
know. But where, where are the prayer meetings? You're talking about? Prayer with within the drum of prayer. You know, we've got guys and gals out there that are prayer warriors. Yeah. But you know, when you look when you look across the platform of all all different churches, when you look across the platform, is the prayer me in that is the boiler room. Supportive room. boiler room is a hot room, a boiler room takes effort, a boiler a prayer takes commitment, fashionable, fashionable,

Simon Pinchbeck  36:02  
not going to get your name in lights. No, no, you're not going to be you're doing

Reverend Ben Cooper  36:06  
it in the ones and the twos and the threes, or even on your own. You might be in a church, where you could be leading a prayer meeting or God is guiding you to prayer. And a prayer meeting is the is the meeting where you will not get hardly anyone.

Simon Pinchbeck  36:22  
And you be nameless and faceless. You won't you know you No one's giving you nothing.

Reverend Ben Cooper  36:26  
Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck  36:29  
Yeah, big old Pepsi in a can of coke or anything. But it's what's done in

Reverend Ben Cooper  36:35  
secret. It is what done in the quiet space. Without the lights, without the notoriety of being relentless in prayer. Even when you're going into that boiler room, you're going into that secret place of prayer, the ones and twos, and you're not straightaway seeing any results. But church puts Jesus like in a hole in the wall. Yeah. Put your card in. Tap out your one. Yeah. And it'll pop out. Instant stuff. Everything we live for now is instant. You can have instant Now. Now.

Now

everything is instant. But prayer is time. Prayer is dealing with not just the issue, it is dealing with you. Because as you pray, and you connect with God, you're you're having this connection with the Heavenly Father. So as you pray, you're praying in faith. Like we The Bible says, we we call the things that are not as though they are Yes. Now that takes faith. That's like you're praying for healing. you're praying for a family member to be saved. you're praying for a breakthrough an area of work, and it doesn't always happen at the spit. Well, it doesn't happen at the speed that that we want to think is you know, God's timing is his own time and isn't Yeah. And so you're 1,000,000% right, Ben, you know, victory is made in public here are on your knees in private. That's right, actually. And, and I would implore anyone listening out there to

Simon Pinchbeck  38:04  
the Bible calls it a secret closet, a private club, like you know, somewhere where you where you go is just you and the Lord. And just get on your knees and just pry out, prayed right, throw, throw and push through. I know and you'll you will be rewarded as your Spirit will come along. And that's right. And then you feel your spirit. Love because the father knows you're sick in his face if I were knows you're seeking Him. That's why

Reverend Ben Cooper  38:35  
a prayer meeting is the less attended service throughout the world of the church. You get the ones and the twos. You'll get the ones that will just just the remnant. Yeah, the friends find the remnant. And they're not the characters.

They're not the characters

Simon Pinchbeck  38:56  
doing they're not there. They're there. Yeah, faithful, faithful believers. They're faithful babies are not looking for likes glitz, glamour, they're not looking for titles. I wouldn't say I read a book by a guy called I've read a number of his books, actual photo fictional books, but they're called by a guy called Frank peretti. And he wrote one called piercing the darkness. And it was about our cohort of demons. Yeah. taken over a town. Yes, I can. I would have politicians. Yeah, they've taken over the the the the high school, the college, the teachers. And now they will say yeah, and I was working Yeah, together. And it really described all the different levels of demonic activity activity and demonic ranks if you're not Yeah. But the point I was making was that wary were Frank really caught. The point was that there was a small number of people in that town. Yeah. And there was angels that were fighting these demons. And, and, and the angels are gone. We need the prayer, the saints, we need the prayer, the saints, but neither prayer the saints for the power and the permission to go through that. So so he really sort of laid it out really, in a way that you could understand it. So we with prayer is so huge. It's It's so massive church

Transcribed by https://otter.ai