Reverend Ben Cooper  0:01  
Hello and welcome to our podcast at Elim church here in Swanley. We have myself and we have Leya with us today. Hello. I'm good I'm groovy kid. Are you I can you had a good day at work?

Leya  0:14  
I better get well. Yeah. very productive day. Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper  0:17  
very productive day.

Leya  0:18  
Yeah. Love those kind of days where you get locked down and you feel

Reverend Ben Cooper  0:21  
good at the end of it feel good? Yeah. It's great, isn't it? Yeah. So we just want to say thank you to everyone that's joining us here. As we just said, this is Elim church in Swanley. Please share everything that we're doing on social media. We've got live with us today we're looking at angels. And it is me. It is me. It's it's Reverend Ben Cooper, I should introduce as we always should do. And I don't really like titles, but there we go. It's just good for the way the system. That's why we did it. Thank you, for everyone listening. We really appreciate you guys all around the world, guys and gals, wherever you may be. We just pray that all as well in your life. And as we discuss these things, and remember where we are not experts in any of this field, we are just chatting. We're just chatting

Leya  1:08  
to people chatting about what we find in the Bible and asking each other.

Reverend Ben Cooper  1:12  
What do you think of that? What do you think about that?

Leya  1:14  
Yeah. And if other people ask those questions, as well, as well as maybe that's a good thing.

Reverend Ben Cooper  1:22  
minds open up the mind for thinking for understanding, you know of anyone that says they know everything about the law to tell you what cosh Wow, they are some clever dude. They don't know anything. Actually, they know nothing.

Leya  1:36  
Yeah. Plato said, the more I know, the less I know. And that's certainly the way I feel about that. That

Reverend Ben Cooper  1:42  
is so true. And that Yeah, I've thought to myself, the more I study, and I read the Bible, the more I realize, I

Leya  1:51  
Oh, yeah. The questions. The questions are, why

Reverend Ben Cooper  1:54  
the word just speaks to you the way the word just opens up, you read, you read a text. And one day, it's, it's just, it's a beautiful read. And then you go back a week, year later, and suddenly, it's electric. It changes all the time. But his word is the same yesterday, today and forever more. But the but just certain points in your life, when you really need the spiritual food. It pops up. It's like this design engine. And it's not just

Leya  2:20  
a point of absolute truth in your life, an absolute it's nothing striking you and saying this is the truth. Work with this. I don't know if you've experienced then that opens up all these questions, all these questions. I've done.

Reverend Ben Cooper  2:33  
This right there. The amount of times I've read the word, read it, read it, read it, read it. So just say Psalm 23. Read it over and over and over and over again. But then another one time, you'll read it, and it'll come alive like electric. And you'll think wow, and then you'll go back over it. It's not the same. Yeah. It's not to say that that God's word is working the same. But it was at that moment in your life. It was like the Holy Spirit. And the word just really spoke in a way that you've never seen no supernatural.

Leya  3:02  
It's like a living document. Because it works with you, and it works in you. So it's part of you, but it's a book. It's such a strange thing can't work it out. I think that's because it's Well, yes, the Word of God. And it's working in you

Reverend Ben Cooper  3:17  
working for for you and around you. It is just it is mind blowing.

Leya  3:24  
It's not like sitting reading a novel about somebody else's life and going. Oh, and that sad,

this is about my life.

Reverend Ben Cooper  3:32  
What do you think what he's got in it? It's got poetry. It's got. It's got violence. You've got love. This got me a whole book is just a story of a story of a story. And we're not talking about good night reading story. We're talking about life stories. We're talking about experiences. We're talking about testimonies. We're talking about the greatness guidance. It's got so much in a packed yet 66 books I just rammed full of Yeah. Good. Is, is good, as good as good as

Leya  4:03  
it is. and bad is somebody Yeah, which is what we're going to talk about. Today, we're continuing our discussion on angels. And the book that features angels, more than any other is the book of Revelation. Yes, it does. So that is about Christ's revelation. Aha base. I've been doing a little bit research.

Reverend Ben Cooper  4:28  
Research. This is good. Yeah. And the thing that

Leya  4:30  
we talked about before in our angels discussion was that Yeah, you should never worship an angel. No, and the angels are the servants of God. So I've never read Revelation before. And when I was a little bit shocked because I found out that there's, there's it again explains all the different kinds of angels. So as we said before, you've got the Cherubin. You've got the sarafem and then you've got the archangels and One of the archangels is an angel that is made completely advise.

Reverend Ben Cooper  5:04  
And when you try and work this out, Specsavers. Fellow wrote in Swanley flew out flew in the door, suddenly vision out Well, yeah. It is. It fact it's contact

Leya  5:22  
lens built mostly through the normal through the roof of heaven. I mean, the thing is he talks about he's got eyes all over the skin and inside his body. I know you try and work

Reverend Ben Cooper  5:35  
it out what is out inside the mouth? inside? Yeah, this is like, is beyond my beyond my thinking at this moment trying to work. And

Leya  5:47  
that's probably why it only literally says, oh, and there was an angel that was covered in ice. And then we move on to the next danger. Yeah, yeah, there's no explanation of what the angel does what its purpose is.

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:01  
What's fascinating, though,

Leya  6:02  
is fascinating. But I think that's part of the it's part of the thing of Well, you could never know what God was thinking you can never second guess. God give you no in the realms of understanding.

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:16  
Now you're never gonna you get people that specialize in a certain subject. And there's going to be people that listen to this will go Do you know what I can find a little bit more a bit of extra biblical knowledge on the outside what that could be? Tell me? Oh, yeah, tell me at all. Contact

Leya  6:29  
me. Yes. On Facebook, contact me and tell me what that is all about. Because I want to know, I'm the only layer Jane more on Facebook. Are you really?

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:37  
Yeah. Not in a glow?

Leya  6:40  
On Earth, on earth? on Facebook or on

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:43  
Facebook?

Leya  6:46  
Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:48  
God said, Let there be.

Leya  6:51  
No, this Bible was better than Facebook. This is the

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:55  
book you can't compare. Beautiful, Joking aside light. So when we're looking at angels, you know, they're there. It's mysterious as well, isn't it?

Leya  7:05  
It's mysterious. And it's mighty. The thing about the book of Revelation is in the book of Revelation are all the everything is cast aside. All of the sinful people, all of the globe is cast aside. And the people the things that cast aside and do all the repin Yeah, are angels. Yeah. And it's not one Angel. It's not like the angel of death. It's not like the Passover, when the angel of death. There were four different angels standing on the four points of the globe. Thank you. And they reap Armageddon, harvest, they reap Armageddon.

Reverend Ben Cooper  7:43  
So that's a big, so that's a word that you we don't really hear about in the world of the church. But you know, there's movies made of it. And you could not just pitch a Konya, these, these angelic beings like the battle of Armageddon, you Oh, my goodness,

Leya  7:57  
no, this first of all, they stand on the four points in the corner. Yeah. And one of them gets a great big size, and then reaps down all the people that aren't in the Lambs Book.

Reverend Ben Cooper  8:09  
That's right.

Leya  8:10  
And another one turns all the sea's into blood, blood, yeah. takes out all the vegetation takes, and they destroy everything. Oh, and these are the instruments the Lord instructed, instructed to destroy the world that he created in Genesis

Reverend Ben Cooper  8:26  
instructed by our God, the God of Israel.

Leya  8:31  
And when you read that, I read that, and I was a bit a little bit shocked.

Reverend Ben Cooper  8:35  
Yeah, because it's shocking.

Leya  8:37  
It's a after the flood. He said, I'll never do this again.

Reverend Ben Cooper  8:41  
But with now we're talking about the end of time. Yeah, we're talking about it's a different year, I understand what you're saying. And you look at that, and it's quite harrowing, is it to think that there are going to be people lost? Yeah, that

Leya  8:55  
anybody that has got the mark of the devil on them

Reverend Ben Cooper  8:57  
is and talking about the market, the devil where we sit right now 2020 coming out of the pandemic, that what month we're in October, you know, when you think where where are the markings and the control that's out there at the moment. You know, there's a lot of satanic oppression. So obviously, the Bible tells us no one knows the time or the hour when the covenant of the Lord, but the signs of the times and as we're talking about what we're talking about revelation, an angelic being and the battle of Armageddon and everything that goes along with that it does it does make you make your body tense does because it's real.

Leya  9:31  
It is real is gonna happen Ii is real, and I see it every day. Somebody came into work today with their hair, different color. And I said, Oh, your hair looks beautiful. Yeah, I've done it for Halloween. And I was like,

Reverend Ben Cooper  9:43  
oh, there we go. Well, Halloween is coming.

Leya  9:47  
And let's not forget, this is a tie where people supermarkets commercialize Yeah, people's paganism.

Reverend Ben Cooper  9:57  
Yes. Do you know what I mean? devil worshipping. Yeah. It's, it's an area that is very, very spiritual. But children are drawn into it with parents. Yeah. It is a battle that has been there for many, many years. And it is and it needs to be addressed. If you go into certain shops in a town at the moment and certain change you will quite easily find that they are selling spells all sorts of things very. We chipboard and we Yeah, yeah, they're they're they're selling some things that shouldn't even be but commercialism as just it will do what it's going to do to make money. Yeah, it will sell or

Leya  10:43  
sell your net is the devil.

Reverend Ben Cooper  10:45  
Exactly. commercialism, materialism debt, any area like that it will grab you. So we are living in very critical critical times spiritual times where we've got children going to be dressing up so knocking on doors, and it's made to look fine. Another festival. Let's have some music. Let's dress up. Let's have some sweets. Let's just have a laugh. But hidden on the the fabric of that it's satanic worship. Yeah, you're not going to get any other answer. If you study that. Come back and look at what it's about. Satan is at the top of the tree on that one.

Leya  11:21  
Yeah. Well, that's the thing because we've been doing revelation and it is about the battle between Jesus and the devil. I have been doing a bit of research good about Lucifer over the last three weeks. And I can tell you that he I felt his fingernails in my boots. I've explained it. Yeah. So the little bit of research I did was explained to me that 50% of

Reverend Ben Cooper  11:49  
Christians, yes, don't

Leya  11:50  
believe that the devil is real.

Reverend Ben Cooper  11:53  
That is correct.

Leya  11:54  
Yeah. So in my mind, if you're saying that the devil isn't

Reverend Ben Cooper  11:59  
real, yes, we know that God's creation, then why do you believe in God? Why do you believe in God? Yeah. Because I think what's happened over the years, the church hasn't addressed the issues it should have addressed. Yeah. So what what the church has done over the years is it hasn't taught the correct word of God. So what it has done is it has pressed the prosperity gospel, he has pressed a faith healing gospel, now we're sitting in a pandemic with fear is, is the pandemic. Fear is the pandemic. Fear is the devil's tome. And the fear is that devils tall. So what we have is a church that hasn't spoken correctly, and dealt with issues that have should have been dealt with. Rather, it has pushed a false gospel and other things that have gone along with that and other agendas. And suddenly, we find ourselves in a position of fear. So what we have is Christians, that not because of them, not because they're in this position, not because they put themselves in this position, but because the teachers haven't taught correctly. So it's not the ones sitting in the pews and the congregations because all they're getting is fed from whatever comes out. But then we say to ourselves, but I do have a responsibility to to get in God's word. So everything doesn't lie at the preacher. It does to a certain degree, because they have a lot to answer for when God calls them on because of what they say and what they had free will but you have free will free

Leya  13:27  
will. And that's what the devil plays on. I'm gonna go back to Genesis. Yeah. Genesis, free one, when the serpent went to eighth.

Reverend Ben Cooper  13:39  
Yes.

Leya  13:40  
So what he did was he planted that seed of doubt. against God, he sure. Did God actually say You shall not eat of the tree from the gods. Are you sure? Yeah. Are you sure? Are you sure? And that's the thing that the Lucifer does. Yeah. He comes to you and he whispers in your ear. And he Yeah, ask you are you sure about that? Are you sure I get a bit.

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:04  
Yeah, I'm gonna so the doubt

Leya  14:07  
Are you sure that you want to admit in front of a lot of people that you love God? Are you sure you show up?

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:15  
Yeah. When you look at the when you look at where we sit right now in a nation in the UK, it's the same thing coming across everywhere. Are you sure what what what what what was that confusion? wherever it's coming from causes panic.

Leya  14:34  
It does but it also hides the truth. So

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:37  
many Well, actually, it can't hide the truth. It can't hide the truth to that degree, but it it can it can try and push it away.

Leya  14:45  
Right? It's a smokescreen? Yes. for things to occur.

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:48  
Yes, that's the thing. So you spoke about serpent's eye revelations chapter 12 verse nine, it says the dragon was held down and the ancient serpent called The devil or Satan? Yeah, so we understand that he's a slippery fella, huh? He always will till the end of time. So we need to be careful because there is a battle but the battle belongs to the Lord. Exactly. And there are agents of Lucifer. It's very clear because if you look in revelations chapter 12, verses seven or nine, it says then war broke out in heaven, Michael and his angels

Leya  15:29  
10 times 10,000 angels behind him.

Reverend Ben Cooper  15:33  
But you think of this What's going on? War broke out in heaven, Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and the dragon and his angels fought back. Verse eight is critical, but he was not strong enough and they lost their place in heaven. So there was war in heaven. So when you really think about what went on and then you read in Luke chapter 10 verses 18 when Jesus said I saw Satan for like lightning from everyone I love that

Leya  16:06  
I know you love that I love that

Reverend Ben Cooper  16:08  
I love that because I can actually see this being just come in like lightning and I can hear the sound in my head right Nana hits the dirt. Yes, like jumps up in the air with all dust and you can imagine like a almost like a Hollywood film where a crater appears. Do you know what I mean? Like, was it Superman? kryptonite? Yeah.

Yeah, kryptonite was trying to do with

Leya  16:34  
Wanda What was that about? I think that's a Hollywood film.

Reverend Ben Cooper  16:39  
On a different gospel,

Leya  16:40  
but if you look at assiah 1412 to 15 that also talks about the fall in the event. So he says, how you are fallen from heaven all day star son of dawn. So this talks about Yeah, initially, when Lucifer Angel, yeah, the angel

Reverend Ben Cooper  16:58  
of God that was created by God for God. Yeah.

Leya  17:02  
He was created by God. It comes up in the book of Job Yes. has been somebody who tests people's faith. Yeah. And he he does some quite nasty things. Yeah. And but this book specific this chapter in OSI are specifically talks about how he actually fell. So basically, it says that he was the de star he was the son of dawn. How you were cut to the ground you who laid the nation's low so it's a power that he had when he was with God. Yeah. The day sighs as bright as the sun is the most beautiful angel that he had. Yeah, exactly. He was he was a chair of him. Because it then it says, I will ascend to heaven before the stars of God, I will set my throne on high. I will sit sit on the mountain of assembly in the far reaches of the North. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds I will make myself like the Most High. Those are the words that he said I will make myself like Yeah. I'll make myself like the most high that's what Satan said.

Lucifer said,

Reverend Ben Cooper  18:12  
Yeah, he wants to make himself

Leya  18:14  
number one. He wants to make himself higher than Jesus. So the sin here Yeah. being committed by an angel of the Lord. Yeah. Is jealousy pride hatred Yeah, everything Yeah, but then they say but you are brought down to the far reaches of the pit and we see the pit again in Revelations those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you Is this the man who made the earth tremble who shipped kingdoms you made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities God all the nations that are the kings of the nations line what glory he his own tomb but you are cost out Wow Yeah. Away from the gray grave like a load branch clothed with the slain those fears by the sword who go down to the stones of the pit like the dead body trampled over foot and it continues on heavy it continues on it tells you you will not be joined with your people by burial because you have destroyed your land. You have slain your people is just

Reverend Ben Cooper  19:25  
no structure then it

Leya  19:27  
Yeah, great thing because people you know need to look into that themselves. But yeah, it does. They relate to the fact that that that that Angel was actually an Eden as well. Yeah, he was chair of him in Eden. Yeah. Then he transformed into the serpent.

Reverend Ben Cooper  19:43  
That's correct. Frank, think about that for a moment. He was a chairman. He was created by God Yeah. So this this what baffles what don't bear for me

Leya  19:52  
does baffle me as well because the perfect you are in a perfect position. You are most loved

Reverend Ben Cooper  19:59  
God. created the angels. Yeah. So when God created, he definitely know that there was a little sneaky one in the batch. Definitely. When you think about

Leya  20:11  
that, about that pit, then, and we talk about that pit in Revelation, this is the beginning of the book. And this is the end of the episode, we cannot say

Reverend Ben Cooper  20:19  
that when God created the angelic hosts, he was not aware that one of them was going to get a little bit naughty. Absolutely. Because if we say that, then we say God isn't God a whole is infallible, he he knows he's before time, he's entirely created time he space, time and matter. He's the King of glory. So that is a bit. When I think about that God created these angelic beings. He knows one point somewhere in existence, there was this little fellow was going to rise up.

Leya  20:55  
There's no, there's no coincidence that the devil appears as a serpent in Genesis, the first book, The first and then as a serpent in Revelation, the last last book that overarching Yeah, threat and risk to our life, and us been saved. I mean, it pushes you to love God, because this is the thing. I've been looking through all these things. And basically, I'll know it every single mention of Satan in the Bible. And I'm not going to go through all now because this is not a library program.

Reverend Ben Cooper  21:37  
Interesting,

Leya  21:37  
but I found so many things started going wrong in my life, the more I looked into it, more things were going wrong. A car broke down. I've pulled a nerve in my neck. Couldn't afford this. I couldn't afford that things were happening. calamities at work

Reverend Ben Cooper  21:54  
influences from the outside

Leya  21:56  
what we got on my show, I stopped doing this research disappeared. It was like a shaft of light came down on me. Yeah, I randomly came on the radio that was all about God.

Reverend Ben Cooper  22:11  
Because when you study him, not that we give him any, any credence or any power whatsoever. But when you reference and you show the bad side, and you illuminate that and you light up what he really is, yeah, he doesn't want that now, because it's an angel of light he comes into mimic God into and all that sort of stuff. So I was looking into

Leya  22:34  
exorcisms and such in my look into it. Yeah. And my mom actually said to me, after my car back down, you need to stop looking at that stuff. Now, my mom's not a believer, yeah, she needs to stop looking at that stuff. Because she said he's in your life, and you need to stop.

Reverend Ben Cooper  22:51  
Seriously, she meant that best right now, what we got to remember is the Bible says that greater is He that is in me, then he that is in the wall,

Leya  23:01  
he that is in the world is Satan.

Reverend Ben Cooper  23:03  
Now we got

Leya  23:04  
to look at the book of Job, we know if you look at the book of Job, yeah, it says now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came amongst them also. And the LORD said unto Satan, when it comes down to Satan, Satan answered the Lord and said, from going to and fro in the earth,

Reverend Ben Cooper  23:25  
yeah.

Leya  23:26  
And from walking up and down. It is the They call him the prince of the earth. That's correct. They call him the prince of the earth. Yes, he is the one that walks among us. Yeah. And in us, you know, so many people don't realize when you think about the Last Supper, who did Satan get into?

Reverend Ben Cooper  23:46  
The man who had the cash? Yeah. And what does Jesus No, Jesus? No, exactly. could cut what 100%. So, but you don't hear the church really talking about that? Because when you talk about the Last Supper and the preparation on Christ, and if, when artists paint all that his whole glory is actually around that table amongst them. Satan was waiting in the wings. As soon as that time that opportune time, and he, his spirit entered straight into gently, you got to be so so careful. Now, the Bible makes it clear that as you just said, Greater is He that is in me, then he that is in the world, so that Christ is within us. But we've got to be careful of spiritual spiritual influence on the outside. Now, in the Word of God, Satan is mentioned really quite frequently, over and above other angelic beings. 29 times. He's referencing the Gospels and 25 of those times. Christ is speaking about him. Yeah. So if Christ is speaking about him, you've got to know What you're wrestling with, now the battle belongs to the Lord. But I, I have to understand where he came from what happened because when I start to know who he is and what he is and what he's about, then I can work out now I know why there's so much spiritual wickedness on the off we go. Got done that what why God doing anything? Yeah, actually Oh yeah, the right. It's like the rains have been handed over and that that's what we're looking at that way there is satanic oppression. And Satan has these agents in so many areas exactly when we've got to be careful. And when you say we're studying, we're not studying because we glorifying him. We're studying him. And we're looking at him. So we know where he is. He's reason. And if Jesus mentions in 25 times within the Gospels, and he's and he's mentioned, sorry, if Jesus talks about him 25 times, and it's 29 times that he's actually mentioned, I think I need to take some form of Stan ago. I just need to check and to make because if you don't believe in Satan, if you don't believe in hell, you actually don't believe in Christ because Christ dealt with the devil. Yeah, exactly. Many times. Exactly. Exactly. So if you extract him out? You got it? Yeah. No, you can't. You can't. What

Leya  26:33  
do you find is? I mean, God has a plan. Maybe his plan was that we see through reading the word about the story of Lucifer. Yeah, maybe we are allowed to say that even somebody who is as high as an angel control control could fall can fall victim to the sense of pride. Yeah, and jealousy and hatred, and wickedness, and see what becomes of that person if they don't repent. If they keep that if they celebrate that. And then like, gather the people around them, because I think we've all seen in our lives, certainly I have that hatred unites people.

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:15  
Yeah, most definitely more than love, which is so nice. All the staff, everybody likes

Leya  27:22  
to have a gossip about everybody else in the office. Yeah.

Everybody loves to stand outside KFC on that bench and gossip about their neighbors racism. Yeah. The pride a lot of people get together. And they have that mob mentality. Yeah. About how much they hate a certain kind of people or certain culture, certain

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:41  
religion or whatever, there might be a nice car that's like

Leya  27:45  
Satan with his, a baby.

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:51  
Angels when you think about high crime, that's, that's that dark, wickedness of the wickedness of the wickedness is where's that gonna come from? Yeah, exactly. It only comes from that one place.

Leya  28:05  
Why is one person going to decide to attack another person? unless they've got something else within them? Now

Reverend Ben Cooper  28:11  
the scripture says

Leya  28:13  
something in that way,

Reverend Ben Cooper  28:15  
the scripture says, at best, our battle is not against one another. Exactly. Our battle is in spiritual high places. Yeah. Lucifer uses humans against humans. So that we forget about the high places. Exactly. So humanity is against humanity. When Christ says our battle isn't against one another. You haven't got no beef with that person. But the battle is in the spirit realm. Yeah. But what Satan does he keeps everything on the natural realm.

Leya  28:46  
Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper  28:48  
Yeah. Human against human culture against

Leya  28:51  
you down yeah, yeah. country against country. So that you can't rise above and saw as on wings evasive. Yeah. So how can you saw when you're fighting against your neighbor?

Reverend Ben Cooper  29:04  
No, when you're fighting your neighbor, and you're fighting, you're you're on the level you're on and then we're not talking about military stuff we're talking about petty stuff isn't petty. It's a

Leya  29:16  
seed. It's a seed of something if we all approached each other with love Yeah, why Yeah, if we all approached each other and every shows with love and understanding and patient Hi, just something

Reverend Ben Cooper  29:33  
all my noise

Leya  29:34  
I pray for every day cuz I do have issues with that. Yeah.

I want an ice cream. Can you be the ice cream man?

Reverend Ben Cooper  29:40  
The ice cream? Yeah.

God. Lucifer. No.

Leya  29:48  
No, no, no. See, so 666

Sorry, sorry. Sorry. During a

Reverend Ben Cooper  29:53  
flight with that. Yeah.

Leya  29:55  
Yeah, we all dealt with each other in those petty squabbles. Yeah, in that That way in a loving way, then there wouldn't be any petty squabbles. But we don't. We start off arguing about that person's playing their music really loud. Yeah. And then the next thing is it's something else. And next thing, it's Emmaus, and then all of a sudden you hate them. And that's how that is how murders and crimes. Yeah, begin.

Reverend Ben Cooper  30:17  
We're humans. Yeah. It's like, to me, it's like

Leya  30:20  
no cylinder maniac, evil leader, like in films, it's human beings against human beings. And that's not scripture.

Reverend Ben Cooper  30:29  
That's not it's not scripture. It's like Darwinism. trample over, you're going to trample on, right, going into the worlds of that and the understanding of that, but natural selection, the survival of the fittest, you know, what you're going to do that is to travel on, on bigger and stronger, get down. So

Leya  30:47  
the thing about the devil is that the way that he works is he manipulates people through their fears? And through their doubts. Yeah, we're saying it's like when he when he goes to Jesus in the wilderness? And he says,

Reverend Ben Cooper  31:03  
Are you sure? Are you sure?

Leya  31:05  
Yeah. Does he say that? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. What if you say,

Reverend Ben Cooper  31:10  
if you say you are Yeah. If you say who paraphrasing, but if you say who you are, and you think who you are? Yeah, then the quote Psalm 91. Chuck himself off, and he will command his angel. Yeah. To capture you. Yeah, that come in the slide devil knows the word. And there's no, he knows the word now. We know now, right? Let's, let's let's, let's just grab this a second, right? The devil knows the word. He quotes the word he uses a word. He speaks out of Psalms 91. And he also speaks out of the book of Deuteronomy. So for him to know the word he had to be with the word. So when you so what I'm referring to in heavenly places? Yeah. Exactly. So when you bring all these scriptures together, he wants to be worshipped.

Leya  32:01  
He does. Now he says, He says, there has been an aide in the garden of God, every precious stone was thy covering.

Reverend Ben Cooper  32:11  
Yeah.

Leya  32:12  
So he was covered in jewels. He said he was covered in Topaz, diamonds, beryl, onyx, Jasper, sapphires, emeralds, gold, the workmanship, for tablets and the pipes were prepared for you, the day that you were created. That's what God says to him. You have been anointed, you're anointed, cherub, cherub. And I have set you so. And then you waste on a holy mountain, you will come and down in the midst of stone and fire. It goes on and on and on. And then he says, I will destroy you. A cover, covering cherub, in the midst of the stones of fire.

Reverend Ben Cooper  32:51  
So they come back to the same thing God created. God, no. Yeah. God allowed your fish.

Leya  33:00  
Yeah. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty. I'm like, wow, you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness. So when you cast you to the ground? Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper  33:13  
Where it says that your heart was lifted up because of your beauty. Hmm. That's when someone starts to elevate themselves. Yeah, that is pride. That is. Look at me. I can do it all me, Me. Me. Me. I'm beautiful.

Leya  33:27  
It's not typical. Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  33:30  
yeah, we're right. I'm right. I'm right. You know, there is so much to grasp and to get together into so much infinite information in the Word of God. Now we got to get this right in the Word of God. Yeah. is the story of the most evil, darkest angel

Leya  33:53  
that fell. What's interesting is that you're absolutely correct. You've got the Word of God. Then when you do your research, most of the myth of the devil is created by people who worship Him. And that is the frightening thing.

Reverend Ben Cooper  34:09  
That's the thing that not only harbor of lies,

Leya  34:12  
when I was looking at the thing, and people were saying, Well, I don't really relate him to be an evil or wicked,

Reverend Ben Cooper  34:19  
I think because of commercialism, and years of fluffing it up, because that's what he is telling you.

Leya  34:32  
watching these programs, and I was gonna

say, God is the only King. Oh, love Jesus. I love Jesus.

Reverend Ben Cooper  34:40  
Because when you look at this, now, who dresses him up like that himself?

Leya  34:45  
Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  34:46  
he dresses himself. Look, some magical mysterious, you know, when people talk about witchcraft? Yeah, but I'm a White Witch. I'm not really a black witch. For my White Witch Hunt. Little bit more softness all about love wine and a moment. You've been deceived. Yeah, it's so much fun.

Leya  35:06  
Okay. God never painted him as a red figure on his face, and a belly on his face on his stomach, a face on his head horns. God never painted him like that like that at all. No, that is a dragon is a serpent is a man. Yes. And that's it if people suspect us not. Definitely so I can read horned thing tattoo. But I have on my shoulder. Yeah. Which is terrible, by the way, is like, you know, a cheeky little devil. No, it's not.

Reverend Ben Cooper  35:37  
No, no,

Leya  35:38  
no, he's not, he will appear as someone as close as your brother.

Reverend Ben Cooper  35:43  
So when we when you look at that image, that image has been man made that images not just been man made but influenced by Lucifer himself, yeah, to play dress himself without a shadow of a doubt, to dress him up. And to put him into himself into a position now. God did not do that whatsoever. Without clear instruction in the word, what we're reading is actually what he was like and what he's like now there is no imagery of a pitchfork. Now, there is no image. There's none of that. It's not folklore, this has come out of stories that come out of Washington. So he has created this. He is he has fuel. That's what he wants. He wants to look like that's how he wants people to see you. Yeah, little cheeky thing. Oh, it's only that they

Leya  36:35  
believe that that will come on you. And the thing that's quite frightening is that if you look into medieval art, which is where we get a lot of references of church, they used to paint him as this this cheeky or red devil. Yes. So what scripture were they reading? Do you know me and these are the monks.

Reverend Ben Cooper  36:53  
That's right,

Leya  36:54  
that were created in the books because they were the only people that could read and write and paint in their way. Which is another thing altogether that we'll talk about another time about the elitism of aging.

Reverend Ben Cooper  37:06  
But yeah, when you look at that, the way that that he's been depicted and the way pictures tell the story of him and tattoos and artwork, and all that sort of stuff, you can think of so many places where you will see him. And it's almost like when you look at Hollywood movie and all that sort of stuff. He's He's the father allies. Yeah, he's Satan, they now have a way to put that

Leya  37:29  
I've had to start looking at things like I actually quite like a good scare. I like a good horror movie. I love a good horror movie. I love good horror. Okay, like a scary look. But I'm looking at now I'm thinking, honestly, after this three weeks of looking at it as correct. I believe that I should be looking at these things anymore. Now I do

this, I don't think I should be watching this

Reverend Ben Cooper  37:53  
you should have now that's the Holy Spirit. That is not Lucifer. That that is God bringing you the conviction and saying, layer we've done this study. We've looked at this. This is what and exactly Christ, the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, you cannot find comfort in horror. Yeah. I feel like there's comics or God is, I would say almost challenging you You're, you're being tested, and, and conviction and the Spirit of God is moving in you. And now you've got the freewill. Now, when I watch certain things on the telly, that's so true, or will I? Or will I just say no, I feel

Leya  38:30  
like another door has been opened for me. Just when I think I know God. I'm a Christian.

Reverend Ben Cooper  38:36  
Yeah.

Leya  38:39  
I'm a Christian. All of a sudden, I feel like oh, no, another door has been opened for me. Because now this week. Oh my goodness. I feel like the love that I've got is even deeper. Mr. I've been listening to praise and worship songs. Last night, I was I walked into the pub. I live in Kent, it was still open. Yeah, there's all right. And someone said to me, if she can, she can. She believes in Santa Claus. She believes in God. And I went, yeah, they went really? Are you a Christian? I said, God said would you want to do that for and I spent a summer that when I went because I'm in love with Jesus Christ.

Reverend Ben Cooper  39:22  
I love Jesus.

Leya  39:24  
And I felt like I'd put on armor.

Reverend Ben Cooper  39:27  
Bang. He was ready.

Leya  39:29  
Yeah. And then we sat discussed it for half an hour or whatever. And he said at the end of it after being like, taking the MC and such. After that. He said, to be honest with you. I'm proud of you. You found your peace. That's right. I found your way. And I feel like that's the way we've got to be. And interestingly, when you do read the books by exorcism, etc. They do say that the only answer is the word of God. The only answer why is your love for Jesus. The only way that

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