Reverend Ben Cooper  0:00  
Hello, and welcome to our podcast here at alien church in swanley. You're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper, and Simon Pinchbeck. We thank him so much for coming over. And we are talking about pride.

Simon Pinchbeck  0:13  
Yeah, we're talking about on the best.

Reverend Ben Cooper  0:17  
That's why it's such a short intro because we got the giggles and you can follow me Reverend Ben Cooper, we're talking about pride. And you can I am the best and it's all about me show. It's all about me. So

Simon Pinchbeck  0:28  
welcome to the Ben Cooper show. Welcome to the Reverend Ben Cooper show and yeah, you can you subscribe and throw money at me whenever you want to listen. Ben, it's great to be back. And listen, I forgot to tell you last time I left here. It was our Carnival atmosphere. I don't know what was going on Ben fireworks there was dancing girls, there was the drum major,

Reverend Ben Cooper  0:55  
just normal.

Simon Pinchbeck  0:57  
I said the sound was coming up. I said they're opening a new Primark store. Right next to the driving with prospering. KFC

Reverend Ben Cooper  1:06  
right next a cafe squeezed in between subway.

Simon Pinchbeck  1:09  
So omega book.

Reverend Ben Cooper  1:12  
Yeah. Yeah. Singing. Jesus. Thanks for coming. Sorry. You know, we're in crisis in the 30 days, we just started a 30 day lockdown. You know, the Lord is good. And it's just, you know, we're living in really treacherous times, and we're talking, you know, we have a laugh and all what we care about, but, you know, deep down we just, we just love Christ. And it is really hard, isn't it at the moment to keep pressing in. There's a lot of depression, a lot of worries, a lot of fears, a lot of battles, all sorts of things. But we're just gonna have a little chat about pride. That's that that's a big, that's a big eater.

Simon Pinchbeck  1:46  
It's some it's been, you know, I go around the world and around the world talking about men's problems discussing a Christian men and their biggest struggles and pride is obviously up there. It's right up there. Right. Really, and there's a man it's we are very prideful. Yeah. But Benny, you know, it's it's a sin that that the Lord hates more than many other sins. We deal with it. He says in Proverbs 616 is right at the start. He talks about lots of stuff that the that he hates. It's man with haughty eyes, pride that's comes right? why men tell us why that why God hates that sin of pride so much.

Reverend Ben Cooper  2:38  
Sort of about me, sort of. It's all about me, but it's all about me. It can't be about me. You know, humbling yourself humbling yourself but we're we're in a world where it's we want to be picked up we want to be we want to be lifted up we want to be lifted up and yeah, you're doing quite you want to fall and yeah, that has that is really good to have encouraging encouragement, but the encouragement is important but then suddenly you got to be careful that for that hang on a minute. Oh, oh, yeah. Oh, I get a lot of it. Okay. Oh, you gave a great sermon. You delivered this you delivered that you're doing so great. You know you are good and you start now Oh yeah, I've suddenly become or people are starting to know me My name is out and about

Simon Pinchbeck  3:24  
someone approached Charles Spurgeon you know the great great speaker and philosopher and teacher. And I said to him Oh, Mr. Spurgeon you really spoke well today. And his reply was I know I did because the devils just told me

Reverend Ben Cooper  3:39  
what a great quote that is.

Simon Pinchbeck  3:41  
And here we have Yeah, he's all he's just mentioned the enemy Yes. And pride was the enemy sin wasn't it but

Reverend Ben Cooper  3:48  
it was prior it was the enemy sin

Simon Pinchbeck  3:50  
before he was going to be on a par with god yeah. But he was he had everything anyway he was the most beautiful Yeah, you know handsome Miss light. Angel is a worship leader and yeah, he just wanted more he wanted more wanted more.

Reverend Ben Cooper  4:10  
And that that is I'm afraid to say that is or God you say that without so much as a part of life isn't it?

Simon Pinchbeck  4:20  
Well, it's simple in yourself before your self before gone it's being independent and gone stepping out

Reverend Ben Cooper  4:29  
concerning some goodness I don't need God doing God that naked naked

Simon Pinchbeck  4:35  
man that's where a lot of this this new wave theology this a woke yes stuff. That's where that's coming from. We don't need God God you stop there. This is all Yeah. as men we're going to do is ego is edging God out. And he definitely so yeah. It's really your own path. It's not following Jesus Christ

Reverend Ben Cooper  4:58  
ministries.

Simon Pinchbeck  4:59  
It's It's the all about me ministry but the thing is, in the kingdom of heaven is an upside down Kingdom in it.

Reverend Ben Cooper  5:08  
It completely is. It's it really is an upside down kingdom, you know, trying to humble yourself before the Lord. humble yourself before the Lord just coming to the Lord and saying God, so I can't do this without you know, in the world. Yeah, it's the opposite. It's the opposite. It's the opposite

Simon Pinchbeck  5:25  
everyone. Everything is geared towards everything.

Reverend Ben Cooper  5:29  
All the pyramid is geared towards towards the one the one you whoever it is that Yeah, I've made it many times we hear that I've made it I've done it. I've done this.

Simon Pinchbeck  5:39  
Well, I've built this what is what is the most played song of funerals when you do a few of them? I did it

Reverend Ben Cooper  5:45  
my way there you go. Yeah, it's you know, it's it's so true. I did it my way and you know what, it's so common in the world of church and ministry. People are lifting up people people are lifting up men and women are saying no look at them they're great. God must be with them all that

Simon Pinchbeck  6:09  
I've even heard it said in in church you know, I attended HDB for a number years when Nicky Gumbel is the vacant have even heard people say, Well, what does Nikki gamble say about it?

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:22  
That's right. Yeah. What do they say? What

Simon Pinchbeck  6:24  
do they say? What

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:24  
does this person what is Pastor say?

Simon Pinchbeck  6:27  
So you're stepping over God's Word to get the last

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:29  
word. Yeah. What does God say?

Simon Pinchbeck  6:31  
And if you're not careful if you don't keep a lid on it if you are that person Yeah, then the pyramid builds up to you then that's why the sudden you start believing in your own yes guy.

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:41  
Yeah, that's right.

Simon Pinchbeck  6:42  
You're a legend in your own lunchtime

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:44  
you are

Simon Pinchbeck  6:47  
and you start enjoying it.

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:49  
It feels good

Simon Pinchbeck  6:50  
you start getting people around you that will give you that

Reverend Ben Cooper  6:53  
start to worship you and start to elevate you and

Simon Pinchbeck  6:57  
you become an teachable spirit because yeah, you don't have people around you so and it's your life you know telling you where you're going wrong yeah one of them because I want to disagrees with you is out

Reverend Ben Cooper  7:08  
exactly yeah, that's so true. And anyone that disagrees you know,

Simon Pinchbeck  7:12  
yeah, with

Reverend Ben Cooper  7:14  
that they won't have them on board will they? It's got to be I got my wife is so classic, isn't it and you can think of so many situations you look at in church at church businesses all that that where there is so many narcissistic control freaks

Simon Pinchbeck  7:31  
even writers in narcissistic Yeah, ministries. Yeah. You see, all the time people post stuff on Facebook. People go Oh, that's great. That's one blow you might not even be saying anything about about Christianity. They might just be popping up doing something.

Reverend Ben Cooper  7:51  
Right. Oh, you're so good. You're so wonderful. Wow. Wow. And that that cannot just burn

Simon Pinchbeck  7:57  
okay for that confused if you're a bride and the but but the Bible tells us done it very clearly. That it that all that stuff. Be careful because it comes before a fall or a disgrace or whatever. So you So how many of these we see it tell the evangelist I mean, many times, yeah,

we've got enormous ministries, all of a sudden, bang, therefore, they've fallen.

Reverend Ben Cooper  8:28  
It's that it's really frightening. It's really frightening. But he got straight away I think of Daniel chapter six I think of the king in there. The king was looking at Daniel Daniel doing a great job in his office of work. And the king looked at him and he thought you know what, this guy is trustworthy. There's no corruption me he's got integrity, three major points that he had. That was really important. And the king was looking and saying you know what, he's a great guy basically. So the king was all for Daniel before he got thrown in launch into the lions den and the king was for him. But what happened was the ones that was around the king manipulated the king and how did they do that? They lifted the king up they said how King everyone's got to worship you worship you. I mean I said oh king live forever and there's nothing you know come on let's be honest when people lift you up or your great well done somewhere great tells me you got what a great guy you are. You're so good. We love your can we follow you and and can we help you? What can we do for you? Someone You're so good, you know? You can feel your chest been pumped up? I feel in the flesh wall.

Simon Pinchbeck  9:35  
I've been there and if you if you're not grounded and not come back, yeah, that ain't me. Without Jesus, I'm nothing without Jesus.

You know, well, tightening encouragement. Thank you so much.

Reverend Ben Cooper  9:46  
Thank you for the encouragement, but we've got to give God the glory. And we got to give God the glory

Simon Pinchbeck  9:51  
because here's the deal, right? Jesus Christ, yeah. He's a son of God. He's a son of God. Hallelujah pretty came down to serve yeah so humble yeah didn't come with a big could have come with a

Reverend Ben Cooper  10:10  
legend if it was left to the church to decide what it would be like yes sir ministers are my goodness you can imagine the angels are behind hearts pious playing around comes missed their eye areas or jailed up looking pumped up and you know a man comes in in a beautiful car chariots the lot the whole once the

Simon Pinchbeck  10:33  
whole nine yards yeah the

Reverend Ben Cooper  10:34  
whole nine yards with him but not with Jesus and Jesus,

Simon Pinchbeck  10:38  
not with Jesus stooped down any

Reverend Ben Cooper  10:41  
also Scripture tells us so low so he lowered himself and humbled himself.

Simon Pinchbeck  10:49  
And he's one point, you know, it said tells us in the scriptures one point, you know, he went through everything that as humans go through everything that we go through, he knew that he was going to have to enjoy. Yeah, yeah. That, that ridicule that persecution and that wife. And what did he do in the garden? hE hE,

Reverend Ben Cooper  11:12  
it goes Yes. 70 Yeah, tape this cut from me.

Simon Pinchbeck  11:17  
Not my not my will, but your will be done. My will. Is that is a prayer that I think every single one of us yet right every single day, not my will but not my agenda.

Reverend Ben Cooper  11:28  
My agenda is completely different the jizya agenda, and,

Simon Pinchbeck  11:35  
and he stooped even further by allowing himself to be now to a cross and die for us. And here's the thing without we, when we was talking a little bit before about, about early enemy sets, traps, sets, traps, lays a trap, and is God's own plan for this world was to allow his son to go through that. And the worst thing for Jesus, not only was he crucified with all the pain that came through them, but but there was a point they when he got all our sin, the father couldn't look at him. The father couldn't evolve and look at my son turned his face away. And the suggestion, and the separation quote, will never understand it whenever I was learning from it. You can't You can't i can't actually get there. I can't get to that point. I What do you got? You know, you just closed off on his daughter. Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  12:32  
yeah. Molly. Yeah. 22.

Simon Pinchbeck  12:37  
To not be able to look at your daughter.

Reverend Ben Cooper  12:38  
He can't go Look, he can't do that you can't have How'd you do? How do you do that? But not only that, what he was carrying the weight that he was carrying,

Simon Pinchbeck  12:48  
but is the Son of God. And he's done that for you. And he's done that for me and every person here in the world. He's done

Reverend Ben Cooper  12:57  
it for us. JOHN 316 For God so loved the world that He gave,

Simon Pinchbeck  13:01  
he gave his only son

Reverend Ben Cooper  13:02  
his one and only begotten son gave His one and only Son

Simon Pinchbeck  13:07  
and the the enemy for Yes,

Reverend Ben Cooper  13:09  
yes.

Simon Pinchbeck  13:10  
Well done. We've got it.

Reverend Ben Cooper  13:12  
Yeah. Hang on a minute. Free. Afraid Isaiah.

Simon Pinchbeck  13:17  
And it was probably even before that.

Reverend Ben Cooper  13:19  
It was Yeah. Gosh, it like

Simon Pinchbeck  13:22  
turn the Gosh, turn it on his head.

Reverend Ben Cooper  13:25  
His phone it stopped.

Simon Pinchbeck  13:28  
I mean, and the enemy things. Yes. Yes. Where are you remember the

in the Was it the line the witch in the wardrobe was when I was young was a slap in the face to cut his hair off. And all that they're all dancing and ciat Sally wouldn't must have been in the kingdom of darkness. Darkness. Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  13:49  
gosh, is quite. When you when you when you start talking about Christ and the cross it actually froze you it because you suddenly start to realize what that sacrifice was. But even though I see I can't I just can't get myself to that position. It's impossible to fully grasp and to fully understand what the Lord Christ went through for each and every one of us that might sing was not only now to that cross, but all those Oh knows you

Simon Pinchbeck  14:19  
call me calling you

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:20  
so boy. Darkness that covers you. Then now's did not hold him on that cross. That was love. Love kept him on the cross. And a sinner like me

Simon Pinchbeck  14:35  
and with us, you know without Jesus Christ. Yeah. The father can't look at us, Kenny. No, he can't. He can't look at his he can't, you know, because we were covered in that same

Reverend Ben Cooper  14:49  
covenant but by the blood of Jesus, by the blood of Jesus. So we're talking about pride. So how do I deal with pride? Well, firstly, it was now to the cross. It's done. Still, it's finished a price have been paid, but I've still gotta live and deal with it. And I can only deal with it for the power of God's word. I can only do it with God, I can only do it with God through God. You know, my, the price has been paid, I am free in the name of Jesus. I'm a child of the living God, I'm washed in the blood of Christ. But as I walk this terraform as I walk this earth, I've got to deal with pride. I've got I've got to deal with anger. I got to deal with unforgiveness. I've got devotees bag of stuff, guilt lost pride, you know, when you're dealing with pride, that is such a driver

Simon Pinchbeck  15:38  
bent dry fjord. so easily you will find that pride is a root of many mine is the root of anger. Yeah.

Did he say that about me? What did he say? They think they I think they are pride is that is the result of all the all the other stuff, you know? Yeah. Last Steven, you know, eight. Yeah. She's smarter than me. Well, you know, that may, two scriptures two scriptures or tap into the Gospels been. Matthew 2312 says this, he said, Whoever exalts himself will be humbled. But whoever humbles himself will be exalted. So you start believing your own press cocinas you start putting yourself out there, mate, and there's coming a time there's coming a time when you will be humbled,

Reverend Ben Cooper  16:34  
there will be a time, but that is scripture. Yeah. That is fact that is fact cast in stone. It is written in the Word of God. If I start elevating myself and start believing it and start it fuels me, and it starts to drive me and it starts to make me feel good and I start become almost invincible. I can do anything. It's all about me Show me Yeah, get ready.

Simon Pinchbeck  16:59  
Get ready. Get ready, get ready for the fall you're in trouble. I mean, traveling in a good place

Reverend Ben Cooper  17:04  
in a place it's all about me. It's all about me and I'm right. I'm right and I've built this up and I've done this and I'm that I can do this and I can I'm a jack of all trades and I can jump from this to that it's all me me me. Oh my goodness what a place to be in so dangerous but that the world

Simon Pinchbeck  17:25  
very easy to get to that the world

Reverend Ben Cooper  17:27  
that's what the world wants people to be. Yeah, very darwinistic and trample on the whoever

Simon Pinchbeck  17:35  
the world is a very self orientated the ice rock got

Reverend Ben Cooper  17:38  
to get to the top. If I don't get to the top I'm nobody. But

Simon Pinchbeck  17:41  
it's a world is a very humanistic place. Yeah, right now because it's telling you that you can do this. You can do everything. live your dream. Yeah. Live and live the dream. You can you can have everything. positive mental agent can tell you you can you can do it. You focus you visualize it? Yes, you can have it. Yeah. But Christ kingdom is not like that. Now that Christ says, Danny in Luke 14, there was a Jesus. He said, when you go to a wedding feast, don't sit at the head of the table. Because the guest of the wedding, a guy might come along and say that someone else has saved

Reverend Ben Cooper  18:20  
the bank cash in the bank,

Simon Pinchbeck  18:22  
and then you'll be invited out front. Yeah. He's saying this to us. It's it's an upside down case, upside down. And and I've got

Reverend Ben Cooper  18:33  
that must be really difficult to deal with. When you've been in the world as a man for Christ. And you've done and you've built this and you've achieved this and everyone has been going, well done. Well done. Well done. And suddenly you receive Christ as your Lord and Savior. And you've got to lay that down

Simon Pinchbeck  18:51  
is a great point. That's a great point. And

Reverend Ben Cooper  18:58  
I must that feel good. I've never been

Simon Pinchbeck  19:01  
it's all about me.

Now, I'm still I'm still trying to get to the top. Listen, I've dealt with a lot of guys and the the ones that find it hard, hardest to submit. Yeah, they believe in God. They believe in Jesus. But the ones that find it hardest to submit are the ones that are self made men. Yes. Because I build his idea. Yeah. No, he didn't know he didn't. I've got a great mate. Down in Ipswich, Andy and he got a huge business, massive business with farms and all sorts of different things. And he gave his life to the Lord following the Lord. And he's walking around one day and the Lord gave him this scripture.

Reverend Ben Cooper  19:53  
It's okay.

Simon Pinchbeck  19:54  
It said, he said to john 15 five, he said, Jesus said to him, You I am the vine, you have grafted into the vial. He said, But listen to this. You can do nothing apart from me. You can do nothing apart from me and he's lived his life that way ever since as he really Yeah, he completely, you know, complete terror. Yeah, complete turnaround,

Reverend Ben Cooper  20:17  
but he only came out because God spoke to him for fruit and it was scripture. It was scripture, it was spiritual conviction. The word convicted him. And yeah, there are a lot of people out there that have like, what what you've made it. But when you get to the top of the pole, you're clinging on for dear life because it's so greasy. You realize it's the most loneliest place on planet Earth.

Simon Pinchbeck  20:42  
But what next?

Reverend Ben Cooper  20:43  
What's next,

Simon Pinchbeck  20:44  
I saw What's next? I saw a program on the telly. It was a great program. Amazing program, a guy had spent nearly 20 years of his life plot planning and plotting how he was going to climb the sheer face of this mountain called El Capitan.

Reverend Ben Cooper  21:00  
Right. Okay,

Simon Pinchbeck  21:01  
this is an amazing mountain. Yeah. And, and so he done trials he done this or that his whole life was focused on climbing this mountain. No one had ever climbed it free style. First, we got no rights on offer yet. And they followed him and he did it. Yeah. He got to the top. And they said that's amazing. And he the look on his face was I've done it. What what makes what what next?

Reverend Ben Cooper  21:31  
What's next? Where's the next thing? Because it's feeling the ego and it's fueling self when when flesh can never be satisfied without the Spirit of God. But even when you got the spirit of god you're careful of the the flesh me doesn't still want the fuel of everybody else. And so you stick you're in a battle. You're in a battle because when when you're when you're following Christ, it's all about him. When you're following the world. It's all about you. Yeah, so there's a difference.

Simon Pinchbeck  22:02  
There's a massive differences. It's submission and obedience isn't yet yeah, you know. Jesus said on the way the life and the truth no one comes to the Father except through me. Amen.

Reverend Ben Cooper  22:16  
You ain't gonna do it. You ain't gonna do it your own way. Do not did it my way. Yeah, many people.

Simon Pinchbeck  22:22  
Whatever that get. Did you get

Reverend Ben Cooper  22:26  
you know what? There are many people in ministry that can sing that song. I did it my way. Yeah. And I did it. My wife

Simon Pinchbeck  22:33  
spoke about it before and I think so. It's a good point. And we will reiterate it if you step out. Yeah. of the umbrella of Jesus Christ.

Reverend Ben Cooper  22:42  
Yeah. Oh,

Simon Pinchbeck  22:43  
I start running before him.

Reverend Ben Cooper  22:45  
I've done it. I've done it. I've done it. I've done

Simon Pinchbeck  22:48  
it. Where's that leisure? Cheese to go off? He got it. I forgot it. But I'm not authorized to do that to do that. Because I never started it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You gotta get behind me. Yeah, follow me. Yeah, then we'll build something that's lasting. So followers were followers of followers running before him without saying Geez, what about this just finishes a great idea. jump on board.

Reverend Ben Cooper  23:16  
I'll get you on board Jesus, you know come and follow me Jays. Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck  23:20  
give me a few quid and in this pyramid

Reverend Ben Cooper  23:23  
at the top. Get me to the top.

Simon Pinchbeck  23:25  
So many people go. Oh, if you just get me to the top Jesus, I'll I'll pray for you all day. I remember. I remember a story about a fella he's trying to find a parking space in a car park it's Christmas time and he's saying Lord just give me a parking space. Just give me a parking space if you give me a parking space he said I'll come to church every single Sunday. I won't I won't deny you he said and right then and there a call back down and he pulls straight in pulled up the brain says Oh don't worry Jesus I found one myself

that's how we Oh

Reverend Ben Cooper  24:05  
yeah, I did it my way I did it my this is all about

it's all about me and lots of people that can take that scripture you know what Jesus says I am the way the truth and a life where people can put their own name in it. I am. Yeah, people say yeah, I can see people in my mind's eye this moment. I am the great I am you know, I mean, I've done it. It's me. It's me.

Simon Pinchbeck  24:26  
And to some extent if if they've been listening to

Reverend Ben Cooper  24:30  
Yeah, you can be very can all of us can be pulled into this area. Because it's it's the way the world and the world teaching and motivational speakers are in the church

Simon Pinchbeck  24:41  
knowing that you can

Reverend Ben Cooper  24:42  
do it. Yeah, you can do it. You can prosper.

Simon Pinchbeck  24:45  
You Can Overcome you can do this. You can

Reverend Ben Cooper  24:48  
be so careful. so careful. Who you listen to what church we go to, who we watch on on different channels. And you know, the best thing that we that anyone could ever do is just read the Word of God.

Simon Pinchbeck  25:02  
Basically, I've got a little booklet which I read by a guy called Derek Prince. You might it might have. Derek, is that? Correct? This is a great book. And he on the way on the back, it says the way up is down. So the way it

Reverend Ben Cooper  25:14  
is at the moment,

Simon Pinchbeck  25:16  
yeah, the way up is down. But they're great books. But what we said about books, yeah, don't put your hope in books. Put your hope in the book.

Reverend Ben Cooper  25:28  
But the thing is, so when you when you're talking about Derek Prince, there's a man that was a gifted, cold and chosen. Now what we have is a lot of people in leadership that are great businessmen and women, that can build the business model. And it's, that's where it's all about me. It's all about me. And we are missing. A dive is the right way to put this. We are missing generals. Now. We are missing great preachers of the gospel of Jesus Christ. You know where we're whittling out that the you know that you talk about that guy that Derek Prince and, and you can think of others. Dr. Martin Lloyd Jones and great

Simon Pinchbeck  26:07  
David Wilkerson,

Reverend Ben Cooper  26:09  
great men great men that would that you know that they were called. And they wasn't there for their own glorification there wasn't there for their their self. They you could tell that when they preach and when they spoke, and when I delivered, it was all about Jesus. I didn't speak about themselves or didn't speak about themselves, or in their books just as flowed from what they've been doing for Christ. But people go into it for their own gain.

Simon Pinchbeck  26:39  
I am. I heard a quote from Dwight L. Moody and the great evangelist. And he said, when I came into ministry, he said, I thought I was going to be reaching up for the presence and the prizes. He said, pretty soon I realized I had to reach down, because that's that were humanities. And we're not talking about being a doormat. Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:01  
no, no, he's not nothing to do. No, it's not that at all. Because there's strength

Simon Pinchbeck  27:04  
in humility. There's there's power is power in humanity. Now, where do we see that

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:09  
the greatest place ever is in the garden? Okay, seminar. Yeah. Yeah, not my will. But yours. I mean,

Simon Pinchbeck  27:19  
is the thing Jesus could call cohorts of angels. He could have done everything exactly.

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:24  
He could have stood up, but he could have just breathe,

Simon Pinchbeck  27:26  
because her father, I can't take this anymore. I'm coming on. And he could, he could have blown him on

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:33  
his arm. Yeah. And he could have just, yeah, I hear what he could have done, what he could have done. But what he did was the greatest act of power. The greatest act was just saying, Father, I'm trusting you, I'm

Simon Pinchbeck  27:47  
trusting you, I

Reverend Ben Cooper  27:48  
cannot do this in my own strength. So there we see that the human side of Christ, there we see in the garden, and we know and the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. So that was the word in the garden bound, sweating droplets of blood, not my will, but your will be done, you know. And at that moment, like you said, he could have taught heaven open. He could have just slightly, he could have just levitate and just, he could have just done what everyone do. He put the stars in the heaven with. He said, Let there be light. And there was, but at that point, he chose humility.

Simon Pinchbeck  28:30  
And so we've been following Jesus,

Reverend Ben Cooper  28:33  
what baccardo

Simon Pinchbeck  28:34  
this is what we call it, humble myself. Humble yourself.

Reverend Ben Cooper  28:37  
I do things that no one else sees me do. I don't want my name in life. I

Simon Pinchbeck  28:42  
don't want my name in lights.

Reverend Ben Cooper  28:43  
I just I just Jesus. What am I doing today?

Simon Pinchbeck  28:46  
Not that. We speak about them all the time, but a lot of them little little fellows with the Gideons Bibles. Yeah, they don't get an MBA. I don't get a round of applause. They don't get put on the TV promise, but I tell you something, the red carpet will be rolled out for them when they get a massive big cheer. That's where it is. So the Bible tells us clearly don't don't put your treasures on earth. Put your treasures in heaven where they will they won't rust, you know, and when we read books by so called Christian motivational speakers who tell us what you can lead your best life now you can overcome this. What are we talking about when we're talking about mortal

Reverend Ben Cooper  29:30  
world? Well, more of the world because that is the model of the world. It's about me. It's always about me, look at me, I am great. I will.

I will.

I will. I will

Simon Pinchbeck  29:42  
see what what happens is and what we really got to be careful of, I firmly believe is this that when we when we step out as a Christian, and sometimes if we step out in ministry, we step out most of the time with with the right intentions,

Reverend Ben Cooper  29:58  
you know, that's it. You starts with the right. godly, pure intention. I'm gonna follow Jesus. Yes. But then suddenly, over time,

yeah, the growth

there's an aspect of growth,

Simon Pinchbeck  30:14  
feeding your ego, right

Reverend Ben Cooper  30:18  
seven a day. Great message. We love your pastor.

Simon Pinchbeck  30:23  
And so what happens in we have to be careful that rebellion does yet set in our rebellion yesterday. God hates rebellion. This is akin to witchcraft. And it's a story in the Old Testament. I know you love the Old Testament. Oh, yeah, yeah. So we'll get back there. And there's a Korean member King aisyah. Yeah, yeah. Well, this was a man of God. And he relied on God, I think he was when he bout to use fight in the Syrians or something. But he relied on God. He relied on God. And God wiped him out before his eyes before his eyes. But then you had another battle. And he relied on himself. He didn't go to God. He was he the numbers were bigger,

Reverend Ben Cooper  31:06  
what a dangerous place. And he

Simon Pinchbeck  31:08  
went, I think he went to the Egyptians or somewhere and, and the Prophet, Hannah came over to him. I think it's in Second Corinthians 16. And said to him, you did not inquire of the Lord for this. You've done all this. And he died a miserable death in the valley. Oh, miserable death,

Reverend Ben Cooper  31:29  
the common loyalty Jesus, Lord, our Lord helped me to be more humble. Oh, and help me Jesus help. So

Simon Pinchbeck  31:35  
he was in complete rebellion. And the thing is, see, what is what is pride in the world means it means confidence in yourself. You've made

it made it your nice

Oh, for sure. Yeah, you know, you want by the Neato anyone

Reverend Ben Cooper  31:55  
now

Simon Pinchbeck  31:57  
to anyone. So but but, but in the Bible, following Jesus, we have to decrease

Reverend Ben Cooper  32:04  
so he can

Simon Pinchbeck  32:05  
increase, it's not a matter of, we have to increase so we can increase

Reverend Ben Cooper  32:11  
the opposite. The opposite is the hardest thing to do. And then that that, then five kicks in as well, doesn't it? Because you're not relying on yourself to do something, you are relying on Christ to guide you. And although he might be gifted naturally, where you can do certain things. But God doesn't want you to use your natural abilities. He wants to take you from your natural ability, and to be completely going by faith. So when you go by faith, pride has to go by if you are a self made man, trying to let pride go and go in faith rather than going pride and your own strength. That is a battle that is done. And the enemy will feel your flesh. Yeah, you you die before you can do it again. You don't before you can do it again. You can do it. You've built this,

Simon Pinchbeck  33:05  
you build it so

Reverend Ben Cooper  33:06  
that look how many businesses you're a urine. Look what you've done. Look how many employees you got. Look at your house, look where you live. Look, you can do this. But then to step back and go, Lord, I'm going to follow you by five. Yeah. Where are you sending me? When you get what do you want me to do? But when you hear what God wants you to do? He can hang on a minute. I don't think that'll work. That's it?

Simon Pinchbeck  33:30  
Yeah, I don't think that'll work.

Reverend Ben Cooper  33:32  
I don't think that's

Simon Pinchbeck  33:33  
lay it all down. What? Do you want me to sell all this stuff and then move on to something I want me

Reverend Ben Cooper  33:40  
to go to? You want me to go over there? I don't think it'll work. Or I think the Wi Fi works in that part of town a lot. Here's the thing when you leave your comfort zone,

Simon Pinchbeck  33:52  
we all remember in the Bible, the story of Abraham don't get and Abraham. Again, as we talked about David's a little bit earlier, Abraham wasn't a perfect guy. He was he slept with his maid servant the other day. Every time he went somewhere he called his wife, his sister, all that sort of stuff. This is Abraham, free fight.

Reverend Ben Cooper  34:14  
So in combat. Yeah. Think about that. When you pull these characters out the word of God. They are not the characters the church would choose.

Simon Pinchbeck  34:24  
No, no. So

Reverend Ben Cooper  34:26  
they are not. They are nowhere near it. But God chooses.

Simon Pinchbeck  34:31  
God chooses and he uses them. Because he knows a heart says that that's a heart thing. But with Abraham, there's daddy son Ishmael. Yeah. And he has his son Isaac. Now they're both his sons. But God said leibish, man, they because the blessing is Isaac. And if we relate that to our lives, yes, God's gonna tell you to put something down.

Reverend Ben Cooper  35:00  
put something down

Simon Pinchbeck  35:01  
in order. But automate this. I did this look, I would have put this down. Oh, God. We see many times where people have put things down only to pick them up again.

Reverend Ben Cooper  35:15  
Oh god back fishing.

Simon Pinchbeck  35:16  
Yeah. Yeah, I don't need to pick him up again. It's tough. But

Reverend Ben Cooper  35:21  
it feels that Lucifer Yeah, yeah, it fuels what you lay down that he kicked your eyes. So

Simon Pinchbeck  35:27  
you're laying there laying

Reverend Ben Cooper  35:29  
that down, and you're coming over to, and you come over today,

Simon Pinchbeck  35:33  
but they're not doing as well as you did or they'll never do that as well as your God, are you keeping a toe in that keep an end in that just to make sure it's gonna keep you wanting to go? Yeah, no, leave, lay down, lay down,

Reverend Ben Cooper  35:47  
lay it down.

Simon Pinchbeck  35:48  
And, you know, I was in a ministry for 10 years, tough to the great time and learned a lot during that period of time, you know. But in 2014, the Lord taught me to, you know, to walk away and no season. And it's difficult because, you know, we have meetings every week. We have prison meetings, we had meetings at the weekend, I was I was doing, you know, all I do is turn up. All of a sudden, I've got no means I've got you know, just and I'm chasing after and I started chasing after things. And I started running before the Lord. I started making my own ministry. I thought this is gonna work. I lost a lot of money. And it never went anywhere. He spent following Jesus and just taking your time and then we go and And what happened?

Reverend Ben Cooper  36:42  
Yeah, why is this fouled?

Simon Pinchbeck  36:44  
Your Why is it failed? But God,

Reverend Ben Cooper  36:47  
I've left that. I've done this. I've started this. I've lost untold amount of time, energy money. Why is it fouled? Because he said to the Prophet What are you doing over here?

Simon Pinchbeck  36:59  
What are you doing over there?

Reverend Ben Cooper  37:00  
I want you there

I want you over here so that way but but on air putting your finger so good idea, but we're alone but but I don't want you here I don't want you here that is that is really difficult, really difficult to deal with.

Simon Pinchbeck  37:17  
And so we we run before the law because the intention is is there is good but the but then the enemy will that the enemy fuels it and Miss directors and it will say you can

Reverend Ben Cooper  37:30  
build it Simon you can do this put some money into it. I imagine

Simon Pinchbeck  37:33  
do this bombing saga we DVDs that we this Yeah, you'll be you will belfie

Reverend Ben Cooper  37:40  
you're gonna make it. And not only that you can be famous you can Simon you will come on, come on. And you're going in your adrenalin, you're gaining your own strength and you're going in that when actually it takes more strength to lay it down.

Simon Pinchbeck  37:54  
The Lord says, You face before me

Reverend Ben Cooper  37:58  
and stay there

Simon Pinchbeck  37:58  
and stay there.

Reverend Ben Cooper  38:00  
But I alone, I don't mean to stay or false data. Just stay

Simon Pinchbeck  38:04  
in my Zico stay on his Facebook site land on his side for over 300 days, didn't he? Yes, he won't be asking you to do that. But for the day for us, it was a scam your face and humble yourself before me.

Reverend Ben Cooper  38:16  
Because we're in a world where you can have it now. Instant internet, there's no waiting and we are exhausted. You can see you humanity is exhausted and we're tired. Whether we're in in church or out of church, wherever we stand. we've exhausted ourselves because it's all about Darwinism. You know? You're going to do it you're going to do it the survival of the fittest

Simon Pinchbeck  38:41  
we've been indoctrinated with this. Self Help this Yeah, this motivational

Reverend Ben Cooper  38:48  
stuff you can

Simon Pinchbeck  38:49  
wear where you're told that you can do all this sort of stuff you can do everything you can achieve anything you want to achieve

Reverend Ben Cooper  38:57  
and then the motivational speakers that all pastors use, I can do all things through Christ. They take the scripture they manipulate the scripture Yeah, they back it up. They switch it about I spent hours getting it all together so check it

Simon Pinchbeck  39:13  
out content

Reverend Ben Cooper  39:14  
wow is quoting no is quoting a word from the pulpit. You can you can cast your bread upon the waters you are going to be rich you are more than a conqueror who find a friend you know your business is 2020 God has told me you are going to be a millionaire. Just so

Simon Pinchbeck  39:31  
you can do great things in Jesus did you know that? Did you know that john? Wow.

Reverend Ben Cooper  39:37  
It's about me.

Simon Pinchbeck  39:39  
Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper  39:39  
it's such a fine line. Is it such a fine line and yes, and I've made more mistakes I make more mistakes Yeah, Mama so many mistakes in my life solely mistakes and is still the guilt is still the enemy still drawing the guilt up, you know got the ball of guilt swinging around inside my chest all the time and you you're trying to grapple this time. I've got out make out. I've run before you have not listened to you. I've I've put every effort into that when he was the other side over there. And he was calling me I wasn't listening because I was going on adrenaline I've got on pride I was going on myself ego You know, we've got 70 ego artistic

Simon Pinchbeck  40:18  
and familiars. Information men bend as we come in to land on is for men. It's the pride is a difficult one. Why? Because is the is the deal with that we we think we can we can do this ourselves now. Yeah. You know, and big one, isn't it? You know?

Reverend Ben Cooper  40:37  
You're not difficult to deal with, isn't it?

Simon Pinchbeck  40:39  
Your wife comes out comes to you and said, out the neighbors Just tell me to eff off or whatever disrespecting me completely. Yeah,

we got a

break. You got to go around and sort of mad cuz that's what she's looking at. Yeah, we gotta do better. Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper  41:01  
Yeah, I've just been. Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck  41:03  
Oh, and then she's in your pride. They're in your prize you can get from both. I'm not dealing

Reverend Ben Cooper  41:09  
with it. You're not dealing with it? Yeah. Oh, God. She doesn't

Simon Pinchbeck  41:12  
want you to come in and speak to him in a nice calm manner. Because she went around and point a finger in his face and say, Don't ever do that to my missus again.

Reverend Ben Cooper  41:20  
Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah, so

Simon Pinchbeck  41:22  
she wants you to get the old man out. The old man who's not buried in the coffin, who's still hanging around on the back

Reverend Ben Cooper  41:29  
end, oh, help me Jesus, you know.

Simon Pinchbeck  41:32  
So we will be we have to be aware of this in every single aspect of our, of our lives. Even, you know, pride as we as we go to Little things like ordering coffee or something yet be totally respectful. The person who's serving respect in

Reverend Ben Cooper  41:50  
people that is so so important. humilities in yourself, humble yourself is such a hard thing to do it. But when you do that, when you do lay that down and you humble yourself before the Lord, your faith increases, peace increases, you feel calm, you

Simon Pinchbeck  42:09  
feel

Reverend Ben Cooper  42:10  
that that's the thing to do is just to lay it down and just to be still and know that I'm God,

Simon Pinchbeck  42:14  
be careful. You know, just reiterate a quick story. And I was in a Starbucks in the in the services close to where I live. And I was in the nice comfy seats, and four seats to myself. And there's plenty of seats around and I spread out my workout. My coffee down was very, I'm very territorial. So you know, these are my seats. This was my place. This little lady comes and sits down in my for Yeah, my zone. And I'm trying to get eye contact with it. Because I'm trying to say to us, yeah, on your bike, you know, this is this is this is man, this

is this is my Yeah.

And she's not giving me eye contact. And I know she hasn't got a coffee saw another is someone else gonna come in there as well. Go, Lord, help me with this one, you know. And then I'm scraped out at our you as she's gone. On amaura I got where we come from. She said we come off a cruise in Southampton, and we've driven up and we're stopping off for a coffee and a break. Before we carry on. I said, where'd you come into? She said Norfolk. Oh, we're in Norfolk. She's the Chroma. I said, Oh, really? I said, I know some people in Chroma. She said do you worry about I said, Oh, there goes a big church, their Chroma church. She said, that's where we go Chroma church. Or I said, Well, I'm speaking in a couple of weeks. I will look out for you. It could have gone. I could have

Reverend Ben Cooper  43:51  
gone there. Oh my god. You imagine imagine you owe your boy taking it in and then get your friend is a price.

Simon Pinchbeck  43:57  
Lord Eric Wright was walking to the church. Yeah. Hold on a minute.

Reverend Ben Cooper  44:03  
He kicked me out of Starbucks. And he's preaching about the love.

Simon Pinchbeck  44:08  
Be careful. Be careful. Careful. What's the trap?

Reverend Ben Cooper  44:11  
What's the track better? Oh my goodness. What a great story. That one. Yeah. Sorry. It's really important, isn't it? It's so important

Simon Pinchbeck  44:21  
and pride because we talked about some big stuff but pride creeps into all the little areas of our life then it's

Reverend Ben Cooper  44:27  
so common. Yeah, and we don't realize we got some times we don't realize. And I just I just say Lord, help me help me lay all this down. And the more you lay down, the more you realize that filthy rags

not so bad.

I got a lamp down. I got let down but Lord with you, with your grace and your mercy. We can do it together. Jesus.

Simon Pinchbeck  44:48  
Yeah, because we can't do it by

Reverend Ben Cooper  44:52  
ourselves. But then you got to be careful again, as you're talking about the king. He done it. He killed he sorted it all out, wiped out. Then you can easily look at yourself and go, You know what? They can really do that or that cousin could it was me, me, me, me. So it is a continuation, your journey and all your journey. You have to be laying things down totally daily single hour lay things

Simon Pinchbeck  45:16  
down, because we'll never defeat the flesh in the flesh man.

Reverend Ben Cooper  45:20  
No. So I'm always in yourself. So yeah, it's your

Simon Pinchbeck  45:23  
suit. So we have to be caught on the Holy Spirit. You know, yeah, help me when I'm God made? Am I doing the right thing? What Forgive me, Lord, thank you forgive me, forgive me for this. But you know, forgive me for that. And just walking with with the Lord's walking following Jesus, but the best way really is to get into our word and understand the word. Get in the way that then when when you can do that, you will hear the voice of you discern the voice of God very early, and you'll feel it. You're not going.

Reverend Ben Cooper  46:00  
So you'll feel anxious, you'll feel something or you're fine pace. You'll find it.

Simon Pinchbeck  46:05  
I think you did great in that session. I think it was real tough.

Reverend Ben Cooper  46:10  
Like you saw that the other panelists thought about that. You know, he's so good. So good, though you're in the house today. We thank you so much. May God bless you on your journey. But you know, you are super you're super maintenance. You're the best. You are great. Keep talking. I love you.

Simon Pinchbeck  46:28  
You're so good. To be able to get into the car. Listen, come on, say a prayer. Ben. Would you really say a prayer for them? And guys and ladies out there who? Yeah, yeah. Because this is a major thing in people's lives. And it's a sin that the Lord Ah, because it's that is the enemy's say, yeah, you know. So say a little prayer before

Reverend Ben Cooper  46:47  
your Father in the name of Jesus, we just thank you that we are free. But right now I just pray that you will cover us in the blood of Jesus. And Lord, the pride, the arrogance, the stuff that we may be fighting with, we ask you, Lord, that you help us. Strip us back Lord, put us on the pot as well. put us on the potter's wheel shape us and motors. Come Holy Spirit. We pray for all those that are dealing with issues so big, so so vast that they just look like mountains in front of them. Lord, we know that we got issues but Lord, we're free to talk about our issues. Lord, help us to talk about the pride of life, the lust of the flesh, the fears, the doubts, the angers, follow the unforgiveness, but come Holy Spirit. We pray for all those that listen, Lord, Father, they will find the love of Christ, they will find peace in you, that you will just bless this globe that you will touch this nation. But Father, we pray that you will carry someone all the way back home or that you will bless him abundantly and keep him safe but fire bless those that are listening today. And keep us strong in Jesus in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Amen. May God bless you all. Thank you for joining us, you know being listened to us here in church Simon, we thank you so much for coming all the way over. We'll catch you in a week or twos time. Stay safe. Thank you for everybody listening. In the name of Jesus, amen. Amen.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai