Hello and welcome to our podcast here at Elim church in Swanley joining myself Reverend Ben Cooper and my good friend Steve valour. We are just going to be looking in Psalm 42 for a couple of moments and was having a nice cup of coffee the other day just chatting to sitting in the church just just chatting about God and I walk with him and it was we thought, you know what we're gonna just gonna gather around the mics and just record some stuff. So we just want to say thank you for listening to us today, please sharing that goes out and Steve's gonna read for us and we'll just having a light conversation. Do we ever ever like conversation? Not Not really. So, I love Steve. He's a He's full of so much information. And it's great to listen to what he's just packed with, with stuff. And he studies he reads, he listens. He learns he corrects, he rebukes and he stands up for his faith. And that's what we needed in this time we need in true fathers are the fight for at this moment, especially where we sit in the world of COVID. And in a few days in a few days into the second lockdown here in the UK. And we pray all is well. But Steve, we're gonna look into Psalm 42. And Steve is going to read the entire text all the way through just the 11 verses and then we'll just chat around the word.
Steve:Yep, there's only 11 verses. I'm reading from the ESV. So it might sound a little bit different to what you know, dear pants for flowing streams, so pants, my soul for your God. My soul thirsts for God for the living God. When shall I come and appear before God? My tears have been my food day and night. Well, they say to me all day long. Where is your God? These things I remember as I pour out my soul, how I would go with the throne and lead the main processions the house of God with glared shouts and songs of praise, a multitude keeping festival? Why are you cast down on myself? And why are you in turmoil within me, hoping God, for I shall again praise him my salvation and my God. My soul is cast down within me Therefore, I remember you from the land of Jordan and of Herman, from Mount mizar. Deep calls to deep at the roar of your waterfalls, or your breakers in your waves have gone over me. By day the Lord commands his steadfast love, and at night, his song is with me a prayer to the God of my life. I say to God, my rock, why have you forgotten me? Why do I go morning because of the oppression of the enemy? As was a deadly wound in my bones, my adversaries taught me. Well, they say to me all day long, where is your God? Why are you cast down on my soul? And why are you in turmoil within me? hope in God, for I shall again praise Him, my salvation and my God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What a beautiful song. When you when Steve was reading that, when he got down to first nine, it says, I will say to God, my rock, why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by my enemies? And if you look in verse 10, it says, My bones suffer mortal agony. And my foes taught me saying to me all day long, where is your God? I think that's a pretty common thread at the moment, isn't it? where a lot of believers are saying, even believers could be saying, you know, it that in their in their unbelief, and all that and people and the way the world, it seems to be to me that the world is screaming out where he's gone. But in Nigeria, why,
Steve:yeah, you're dying. The world is the world and the world will do what the world doesn't tell the crocodile. Primarily, it's to die with so much air in the church being just completely and totally off on me. Last week, we were talking about the percentage of Christians in within the church in America. And we reckon that only 25% of the church were born again. And there's a vast amount of the church that's got this idea that they are in control, they're in charge, that they can name it and claim it and do this and do that. And they've got the seven mountain mandate and all that guff. And the heart of the Christian for God seems to be forgotten in all of this. This idea that all we've got to do is after something out of the Bible, and it's all going to fall into place, yeah. Whereas in truth, that struggle. That struggle is very, very strong. Against as Paul would have it principalities and powers, but also our own flesh. Romans seven always comes to mind. I do that which I do not want to do and that which I hate. I do.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes.
Steve:This particular song Akos z believer who feels that he's been abandoned? It's also it, it looks to the cross as well because of we can see here, Jesus, why do I go morning because of the oppression of the enemy? As with a deadly weapon, do my bones my adversaries taught me? While they say to me all day long, where is your God? Which is exactly what they said to me when he was on the cross exactly
Reverend Ben Cooper:what they said, sir.
Steve:So he understands separation. He understands separation of the believer. With God, he never lost his faith in God. But he felt that separation, My God, my God, why have You forsaken? And we will feel it, we will feel it in different ways in different times in our Christian walk. And if anybody doesn't ever feel like this, I would honestly have to question the condition of their soul.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, question in the fact Are you a believer? Where Where are you sitting? When he when we talk about separation, when you use just talking about Christ on the cross, then complete separation? Are we going down the road of complete separation as in, there is no link whatsoever, completely cut off.
Steve:Now they say you can't render the Godhead. You can't take God and pull them apart. What Christ was suffering on, on the cross was suffering in the flesh. Yeah. He was not separated from God the Father, in the spirit he suffered in the flesh. It says in the Bible, we suffered in the flesh, that all these idiots that come out with this idea that he suffered in the spirit, we don't know that the true depth of the misery that the Lord suffered on cross. But this idea that he was separated from God. As in cut off, cut off, cut off, cut off, cut off, there's God the Father, God, the Son of God, the Holy Spirit, Oh, hang on, we'll take a pair of scissors, and we'll cut becoming God, Father, God, the Son of God, the Son of God, the Holy Spirit, take him away and enjoy God, the Father and Holy Spirit together at now. I didn't work didn't happen. Yeah, it's an awesome thing. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:do you think that in Romans where it says nothing can separate us from the love of God? We're talking spiritually No, because as we said about Christ on the cross the flesh Christ, the flesh Ben the flesh us we think, God Where are you? But deep in our spirit we know that we know that we know yes that our Redeemer lives but you only know that when you know that you're truly saved so nothing can separate us from the love of God that goes beyond the all flesh understanding that goes beyond this natural world so we want might jump up and down in our flesh suits and go God Where are you? Where are you? Where are you? Because we are living in a world that is instant gratification instant pleasure everything's instant you can you can have what you want what what you want to a degree and have it now money buys everything. So if you don't get God now as the church and certain naming climate things happen, God Why have you left me out?
Steve:Yeah. It for everybody. It cuts to areas of the most important things in our life. The loss of family. Yeah, the loss of our homes, the loss of jobs, the loss of all things in time, the crime Where is God going? Don't you care for me? Aren't you worried? Yes, yeah. And every Christian will go through that. You know, region will be everything taken from him. Everything Everything absolutely everything stripped by the intriguing part of it. I was his wife said what a curse God and die. And he basically said, you don't you're talking about one so shut up for revival in spirit before God, and things had to be worked. I mean, God picked a fight with a devil because there was things in job that God didn't like. And the only way that job was gonna was he was gonna have to go through what he went through.
Reverend Ben Cooper:that frightens me.
Steve:Every single one of us although we might not go through job exist, or don't exist, Yeah, that to that level, every single one of us will have to go through something for God to get our attention.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes, most definitely. There is something in us around us within us that we carry that we press on that we could be drawn away lots of the flesh, whatever it may be that God has to deal with, you know, cut kind of white from us. It's a journey. It's tough. There is something within us, something upon us that that could distract us quite easily from God if we're not careful. And when you say, God had to deal with job that frightens me that scripture,
Steve:oh my God love job.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He said, The love job, the love is greater news. And the obviously the love was shown because he wanted his attention he needed and he wanted job. But to strip everything back like that, that that frightens me,
Steve:we meant the love of God is frightening thing. You want to go look at the cross itself. Now God's only begotten Son. Yeah. And he allowed his son, to be crucified by sinful men in accordance with the will of God. Now we don't know what went on in the heart of the Father at the time of Christ's crucifixion. There's many people, I've read various accounts of it over the years, I've got my own particular view of it, which I won't go into. But the love of God, for those whom he loves he so great, but he sent his only Son to die for us. That will give you an idea of the fierceness of the love of God for His children. And he will stop at nothing literally stop at nothing. Nothing to bring his children home.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, literally stop at nothing. When you see what job he had and what he was left with. Yes. Just him. Yes, everything was stripped back. And we could say to ourselves, that's harsh God. No, it's not harsh. It's easy to do that. We can watch the answer because we
Steve:we get we don't understand what love is, in truth. We don't understand the fierceness of the love of God. Yeah. Yeah, that. I mean, you get people like Steve chalke domaines. twit, but it comes up with the idea that God is an abusive father, because He sent His Son to die for us. abusive and abusive father issues when he came home as a cranky goodness. He's one of these people it gets trotted out by the BBC or the ITV when I want to talk in it for Christianity. My daughter has more of a Christianity than he does. But at the end of the day, it's this fierceness of love. We also have to understand that this was not playing be this, this was something that happened before the foundation of the world we see the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world. So the Godhead in totality knew exactly what was going to happen before the beginning. Before God
Reverend Ben Cooper:created anything before even God walked in the corner of the garden when he said, Adam, where I guess he knew that there was hiding because of the because of what might because of what they've done, but he still went for the vocabulary chat to them. Where are you? Well, because
Steve:God deals with us where we are, he doesn't when God doesn't expect us to, to be dealt with where he is. He knows we're foolish. We know we can be done. And he comes to us. Yeah. And so when he when we see these things unfolding in the Bible, we already knows but as I say, he approaches us, he talks to us. You know, it's often been said, religion is man seeking God, Christianity's God seeking men. And that's it. Because, seriously, again, we come down to Paul, in Romans. No, one six after God. No, no, one six after God. No, it wasn't for the fact that God speaking after me, we would all be packed up and said hello,
Reverend Ben Cooper:long time A long time ago. So that that intrigues me when you when you just sit down, think about the very beginning of time before the foundations of the world, God knew that man would fall God know that he would have to send his one and only begotten Son. But he still went through the process of creation and making yes and going all the way through. Now I can get a little bit of an understanding to that then people will go was the point of the day if he no man was gonna fall. What was the point of him bothering creating the heavens and the earth if he knew that he was going to fall? What was the point of all that?
Steve:I don't know what
Reverend Ben Cooper:I mean, he came
Steve:back to me. speculations, well, he wanted to create people with a free will and he didn't want to turn them into sort of puppets and this era. Got a certain amount of credence but seriously the other day? Well, you know, we ain't got clover punctures, you know, we know him Paul, we know, knowing full even as well, you know?
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's correct. That's correct. This sounds Dave would you um, would you say this is one of your go to Sam's Is this a song that you know? I'm strange fellow actually was many Christians have got these my wife loves Psalm 91 on Monday. Yeah,
Steve:I'm really not one of those kind of Christians. I don't okay. I don't have a favorite place. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you know where you're led to?
Steve:Yeah, really?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Thanks for
Steve:because the thing about ease that I've found over the years that the different conditions that I find myself in need different aspects of the Bible factory edge.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Very true. Very true. And
Steve:what was relevant for me last week, when I, you know, again, this is something learned. Yeah, welcome back to our source. Not as it got the residence that I ate last week, I got find something that we've got for sale.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it makes you study more remote, more pressing more. But I love that. What you brought to us today, Psalm 42, as a deer, Pence, four streams of water, so my soul pants for you? Oh, my God. That's interesting, because you said what the scripture said that man doesn't seek God? No. But when so does this apply to us that we could look at this and say, when a man, a human suddenly becomes a true believer in God, suddenly this is where this kicks in? That's it. That is the point because like we said earlier, no, we all know that man is not going to seek God he's not interested in that is in the world is saying doing what he wants. So he doesn't understand that about his soul about about all that sort of stuck, because he's not a believer in in the God of Israel. But as soon as someone gives their lives to Christ, there is a transaction there is a change within their spirit, their heart, their mind. So suddenly, they must feel that Yeah, of course we do. There is a vacuum that needs fulfilling there is a hunger or desire.
Steve:Yeah, it's a great thing. Again, one of these strange Christians that I am, I did never wham bam, Thank you, ma'am. Revelation of Jesus, it was that thing, which is, it's been an ongoing thing over the years. There are times when I felt I've missed out on these. These great revelations, but there are times when I realized I haven't and got those with us all individually. Yeah. And I've realized for some people that have had these astonishing revelations of God, when they end up in a place of darkness. Zach, is so chromatic for them. Yeah, much. Yes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes.
Steve:Don't say someone like me on a steady journey.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that is finding it slowly. A crash bang affair?
Steve:I mean, the traumas over the years. Yeah. There's no two ways about it. I have definitely, but not to the extent that I've known other because because I've known people that that side, I read this. It's almost like a saara went out to sow. And these people are like this, this great revelation. And the seed, bang, like an explosion, it grew up, but they will not ruin it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that's, that's really, really important to understand that that that you said that can be very dangerous carnage. So is is that a matter of ourselves as well? Saying that I've had this quote revelation, when actually you're almost dreaming it and making up to a certain degree, a bit of a fantasy going on in your head?
Steve:No, I don't think it's fantasy. I think that you see that there's a mystery about
Reverend Ben Cooper:See, I've never had that bang experience or that it's been a lie you the complete opposite where I've been like, a man's a nice virgin. Yeah, please, please God, please God. Yeah. And others have these mushroom experiences. And like you said, a crisis comes on saints. Have I been over? Yeah, well, I'm not standing out. I'm on the floor.
Steve:Do you get me? Yeah, it's, it's very difficult. For some people when they write that astonishing revelation of God. They sing with it. This is all people. I'm not saying it's all people but there seems to be with some this idea of art because God revealed Himself to me in such a magnificent and powerful way. Therefore, everything's gonna fall in Place, it's gonna be dynamic a dynamic all the way through. Yeah. And this is, this is why we get somebody stupidity coming out of Yeah, the church at the present moment. Yes. Whereas in truth if we look at this particular situation with the writer of this song, yeah, he feels separated from God, he feels cast off. He feels as though God has abandoned him. But then there's the other. There's another aspect of our seeking after God. And it doesn't impinge upon this, I feel that I've been abandoned by God. But it's seeing the corruption and the evil of our flesh, and the longing, yearning desire for God, to shine his light into our souls, and get rid of it, please, please load on one that does this aspect of Deepak in yet for the water. So my soul longs after God. Yeah, initial respect. I need Christ to do his work in me. I need that. Yeah, I've got a great need. Again, we come back to Romans seven, who will save me from this body of death. There's this yearning, aching desire within for holiness.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I understand that the last few years I've, I've experienced that. And the more the more the more. I'm having these conversations with God, the more I feel like heaven has gotten quiet on me. And I was thank God, please, please. So I get this what the psalmist is writing? The more I want Jesus, the more I feel I'm further away. But I know I'm not. Yes. It's like this crazy battle, this psychological battle. Well, his battle for the Battle of the mind. And that's what I fight most of the diner. I'm driving and whatever I'm doing on wherever I am. I'm just saying please, Lord, I want I want to I want I want to change a lot. Yeah, otherwise fighting myself someday. Yes. almost to a point of pleading. Yes, God do this. Yes, please do this.
Steve:I cannot make it. No, no, that's quite right. That's quite right. I mean, number of times I've come before God and said, Lord, you've done this for other people. Please do it for me. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, this from me. Yeah. Remove this evil from me. Yeah. And over the years, I've obviously we see changes, of course, we see change. Yes. But there's the number of times over the gears a little thank you for doing all that. But why don't you do that? I think
Reverend Ben Cooper:if I did that, if we were basis journey, as you said, it's a journey, a steady journey. And then we see our transatlantic friends up to the things that they do over there. And namely, it's in climates and all sorts of things. And then we're here talking about what we're talking about. But over there in certain ministries. It's like, well, I've returned to as well. Everything is rosy and wonderful in the garden. Yeah, there's no garden of get seminary. I mean, it's just a garden of Eden before the steak even come along. It was beautiful. And I and then that that was not my noggin, I gotta say is it has done it in a few times. Because you watch it, you listen to it, you go. I'm not born again. They're talking a different language to what my bible tells me you're born. took me a long time. Because because of the crowd around, yeah, the volume, the vastness, the lights, the glitz, the glamour and all that stuff that goes with that. So you sit you listen, you're watching a thing? Why have they got all this freedom, but I'm on the floor. I'm playing. And I don't feel this. Great. And I don't see these miracles that they're talking about? Why is it happening? two miles down the road in that church and God where we're praying and fasting and it's not happening here. So you've got this like one key measure of lifesaver overload, which isn't really has nothing anyway. But then the crisis comes in, like we're sitting today. The healing room shut down. everything disappears, you know, and it's like they've locked the doors they've gone. And then you say, What are you Where are you? Where are you if God was hating them? cancers if God was giving people new lungs, new hearts and legs growing suddenly this virus shows up? Why Why have you disappeared? Why because God commonly do
Steve:reverse because actly Exactly, yes. lungs and new aids and all sounds
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, Kim is he here at tumors fell off. I see him on the carpet, right. Okay. He think and then
Steve:look like the car.
Reverend Ben Cooper:nice golden rebuked in the name of Jesus. But then also they talk about dog dust and they come in coming out and kill it. Let's be serious. let's not let's not jackal gold dust coming out of the gold teeth.
Steve:Come on. Listen, Mike, come on, I've got on 69 unfortunately, I've got most of my teeth. Alright, but there's a few gaps. I don't want God to give me some back some real we're gonna pray for God. We don't take well yet. But what? Seriously?
Reverend Ben Cooper:But this is this is the barminess of the world of the chapter that an overarching, you know, I know there's not you know, there's some great, powerful, godly, real godly men. And we thank God for them. And we love that. But then what we what we don't say what we do see is more of this craziness of it. And then when a crisis comes in, when you really really need God, you look at that, and people people are saying, why is that shot? If that was happening, like you said, Steve, it's a virus. What's going on? What's going on? So it's making people flip. It's making people laugh, some say some crazy things, because they're thinking they had new lungs last week. Now right now God can't heal a sneeze. Yeah. So to speak.
Steve:Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, you have to come to the conclusion, you're talking about a bunch of noise. And then
Reverend Ben Cooper:when you go when you go down that road, hang on a minute, but I was sucked into that, of course. And then you go, why God Why did I do that? Is that because my eyes were attracted my ears it looked good, it It smelled good. It sounded good how God must be there is enormous. There's crowds that is happening. And you know, the healing on the streets. And I know God cook got healed. We understand all that. And we get that. But you know, and they set this up stuff up on the streets and the legs are gray arms are going and you know, and I got put aside God, right now have mercy on me, help me understand this. Because I find myself like the lady with the issue of blood on pressing. Come on Jesus, I major today, and they do today. And they today, I've seen my family die cancer. I work in the hospice. I've seen people die of cancer. I see people die of heart disease, I see all these big hitters. So and then I just have to click on to a certain channel, or go to a certain church in that area. And then and God's healing there.
Steve:So they say so they say,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, let's get that crap myself there. So they say, but then you've got to bring yourself in line with the word again in a moment. So I see more people die than I've ever seen healed. I you know, I got I gotta be honest, you talking about healing as a cancer? I don't know. I don't know how I can say that. I've actually similar. But certain areas of life of ministry, they got a bag full of cancers that have been found in the parking lot sort of
Steve:thing. Really, and truthfully, the human condition. All right, yeah. The Human Condition is such that they would deal with the devil if they could get healing. It could get money if they could get anything like that at all. Yeah, to preach the healing gospel is wrong. Or not cessationist by any stretch of the imagination. I do believe that the Holy Spirit still works. I've seen people getting Most definitely. But if you are going to sell gold, and I'll use that to sell it, yeah, if you're going to sell God on his healing. Not only are you blaspheming God,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah.
Steve:But you are shortchanging the people. Exactly. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, your lifespan is gonna be 78 years. Yeah. Some for some people. And I know my wife suffers greatly with a lot of pain. Some people don't unfortunately, I'm a fairly healthy person. Physically,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. But I like my mental problems over the years as a different size different world altogether.
Steve:Yeah. And at the end of the day, if you are just seeking God for your healing, you are no different to the people that Jesus was to. Jesus fed the 5000. Yeah. Okay. Then he got in a boat. Anyone on the other side of the like, yes. And they all came over and chased offering. So you've only come after me because you want something more to eat? More to eat? Yeah. Yeah. That's it. You either want Christ Himself. Or you want Christ for what he can do for you? What can he know realm of this particular life that we live? Yeah. Now again, Jesus says, If you do not seek after what you will eat or drink, or were the Gentiles sick after these things, and your father knows what you need, are two sparrows sold in a marketplace? And your father doesn't know about them? Yeah, you are of more value, then those two sparrows? Yes. So the idea or should be and it's been lost over the past 60 or so years, is to get people to understand that they need to seek God for salvation. They need a savior. And then they need to build a relationship up with him. And understand that their relationship as yours is mine is unique.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So the first thing that anyone can ever do is when they're seeking God and I get God it is continue in their salvation. If healing comes healing comes, yes, miracle comes miracles come in. So I so my mom been passed away now for Gosh, 15 years. And from a very young woman, she got really, really above five was so strong, yet so strong. I watched her die are horrific things she went through. So then, so I know how strong my mom's five foot was. I know what she went through. And I see it. I used to have to do all the things that you should never have to do for your mom, if you know, I'm saying Yeah, so, but she was relentless in that word of God, she she could probably tell you what she could. She knew that word. She just soaked herself in the Word of God. But she never got healed. I realized through that, that healing is don't get me wrong for those listening. It's, we don't need that. No. Internal debt. It's the heart of a person. Yeah. This earth. So as you said, it's just limited to what is limited to will die of something. Yes. Something will take us out of this world of some form shape, you know, many. So I look at my mom. And I see that and I watched her and I watched her give her last breath in down Valley and this, the I'm going to say it but then suddenly she and the last three words she said was Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, as she said that blood came at various and she's okay. Now the reason I say that is because that image stayed with me and I, I said, God, why didn't you heal my mom on that table? I heard nothing. Nothing. But what I got was peace in my spirit. And I realize for the first time, it's about salvation. It's not about the earth. So it's not about the body. No. And then suddenly, we hear all this stuff from all different areas of life that you will be healed your tumors, your brain, tumors, your backs, your legs, your new spine, this that people getting out of wheelchairs, sat on it. So I've seen it from that end of my mom and other areas are working. So you can understand and see that when we come to a position of where we sit, how the church has wobbled because it has been sold a false gospel. Yeah.
Steve:Seriously, if Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Okay. Could you go to your Bible, please? And could you tell me when any of the disciples or indeed Jesus Himself, called a healing meeting? Milan, don't
Reverend Ben Cooper:tell me because I can't find it anywhere.
Steve:He did you do. We see this idea over the years that, you know, we're going to have a deliverance ministry was on this journey, wasn't it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:So you just bypassed them or they showed up to him. There was not a calling of eight o'clock tonight. Jesus is going to be on the shoreline healing meeting. He just rolled into the colonnade. He walked by, he went to the gate of beautiful park. I wonder how many people Christ walked by that state sick that died of that sickness? Because that that would have happened when it
Steve:Yes, because you weren't you want to go look at the man in the pool of Cylon? Yes. There were obviously other people around him.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. But he only went to one and he said you want to be healed? Yeah, yeah. 111. And this is the word this is. This is the one this is the healer. This is the Great I Am. God on earth. Yep. I just said to unmute. But we have these healing meetings. And I know God healed. I know he does that because it's Scripture tells me that, but I've had to check myself over the years because I could have got myself angry with God, looking at my mom saying, God, why didn't you do that? Because down the road, they're raising the dead, so to speak, you know? So we do need to check ourselves in the word. What did Jesus do? And like you said about the disciples, did they call any meetings? Yeah.
Steve:I mean, Jesus said, only do that which I see the father do. Yeah. You know, he didn't come here to do his own will. He did. He came to do the will of the Father. Yeah. I'm sure there's people listening to what happened. As I said, I've seen I've seen a man get wheelchair saying blood did it twice. Wow. What not the same day? He was his illness was linked to his sin. Oh, when he was saved, yeah. The heal, the healing came and he got out of his wheelchair.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And he went back then he went back. Oh, God.
Steve:And then he got healed again. He got crushed. He healed him again. He did. And he didn't go back. He did. But he didn't get it. So time.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You think you've learned your lesson? Yeah. Well, that's humanity, isn't it? Is that is the human being? Yes,
Steve:I've got what I want. Thanks very much. Good. Now I'm going to go back to
Reverend Ben Cooper:the belly again. Lord, we'll call him out to the other side of that, like, you've only come after me cuz you want something? from me?
Steve:Yes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So in the song that we're looking at my soul longs pants off to you. I need the water. I need this live in water, I need this, this fulfillment this and that is that's ever flowing, isn't it that's always flowing. You know, some I saw pence for you streams of water, as a deer. pence for streams of water. So what so pens for you, oh, my God, that's, that's a nice place to be. I don't know, that's a silly word is nice. So
Steve:it's the right place
Reverend Ben Cooper:the right Sri is the right place to be, it's a good place to be. It's a it's a place of for fulfilling a vacuum. That you it's a sense of peace, to know that, that God is feeding you and sustaining you. that's a that's a good place to be.
Steve:It's real life. It's real, isn't it, he is the way the truth and the life. To meet with him in that way. His life really is the life because we are finite human beings. But tend to put off the thoughts of death, we put off the thoughts of eternity, even Christians don't. and concentrate on our life. The way is we become extremely parochial we become and we look at everything, you know, from from what's in front of me. Whereas the truth of the matter is, we've got an eternity lying ahead of us. But we'll get there. This was posted. I count suffering this time, not even to be considered. Yeah. And it's back again with Paul, if we look at the life of Paul, as he talks through his letters from, from the thessalonian letters up to his letters to Timothy, which basically comes from first to last, we see a man had to learn, we see a man had to grow with CMN for all his knowledge, still had to be got a hold of by God and changed. He had to be he had to die daily, daily to be crucified, that he went through exactly what we go through. Just because you see this yellow thing we we've pulled with the knowledge that he had came an extraordinarily great amount of responsibility. Okay, they're not just sit down and write these things out. He had to have them work. And this is very difficult because today, the HD experience church, or I've experienced this, and I've experienced that. But the experiences that Paul went through, was to prove the truth of the Scriptures. Yeah. It proved the truth of the Scriptures. And as he went through these things, so he began to understand what the truth of these things were, and indeed are then not these things. Because seriously, at the end of the day, you've got to cite you go Oh, Lord, please heal my toothache. It gets him. Thank you very much. Three weeks later, I've got hate like, oh, Lord, please heal my headache. Thank you very much. Six weeks like I've cut my finger Lord, please. I mean, this is this is the story. quality of work.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I understand I fully understand what you're saying.
Steve:But if you're basing your face upon your healings, then you're not basing your faith on anything but not something that's going to pass away. Yeah, it's shifting said is shifting sand.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So the answer to to go through pandemics, crisis, afflictions on your body worries and fears, money pressures, losing your home, trying to get food on the table for for a believer, the only way that we will ever get peace and get through this is to keep seeking, yes. is to keep seeking. Yes. And you might be praying and praying and praying, as we know, and not actually get the answer the UX bet. Because he's not a God that certain administrators say he is that you punch the buttons in. And he will give you what you are a guy because we might have to go through the valley, of course,
Steve:because we are unique people. Yeah, thank god uniquely works out his will in our lives. I mean, what you've gone through, you've gone through for your, for the purposes of God in your life. I have gone through similar situations to you. But it's been worked out for different reasons. Reason. Yeah. And it's, it's necessary for all of us to seek God for himself in our own lives. In sick he's fighting his hand. Yeah. You know, Jesus said, Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you. That isn't a one off. That's a constant.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That word seeking is a very important word, isn't it? seeking is like a continuation. Yes, I keep I keep on.
Steve:Yeah, what is similar to turn the power of unity? He's is the father of the prodigal son. Yes, he was always looking out for his son. He was waiting for his son. He was always looking. wait to have power plays the YT father's always waiting and looking. Yes. And so if you turn on your head, yeah, there's a sense whereby that's what we are supposed to be doing. We are looking on waiting and waiting and looking. I love that
Reverend Ben Cooper:I love that picture. I've just got that lovely picture. I've got a got a you know, we're going to provide going all down that road but what I'm just saying is, I could just see that I can just see the sun water in in the pics wine and GM spent everything done everything he wanted to do. The grass is greener, but the father as you said is is always looking Yes. Is Always Always looking always waiting, always waiting for the sun to come back to the parlor. That is such a powerful and that, as I say lecture to flip it. That's how we should be seeking Christ seeking. Waiting looking. Yeah, so yeah, yeah. What so can so if we were to jump into the New Testament a bit here, and it says, when Christ was in the guy to watch and pray, yes. So we're we're continually meant to be watching, seeking and looking Yes. And seeking his voice seeking His Word seeking His will. That's it. That is that is the this Yep, the center point, the will of the Father. What is your world for my life? What is your purpose? Where's my so that is that is seeking isn't it was at King josephat in the Old Testament, that ad free, lots of enemy coming over the hill, and he knew that he couldn't deal with it. So he, he he said, the Bible says that he sought the Lord, he really seeked him to get the answer that he needed. We got to seek Him. Yes, because there are areas and avenues of our lives, but we can't, that we can't get out of know, within ourselves. With him we can The thing is,
Steve:no person knows what's going to happen tomorrow. No. So I mean, the Bible says seeking whilst he can be fair and still be found the idea behind Oh, God is that to learn to trust in him to die by seeking himself today? The more he the more conscious know that that's the wrong word. The more yielded to God I am. The more I can go through tomorrow.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Because the world that we live in, we're always looking at tomorrow and not looking at the now the planning the projecting forward, all that sort of stuff. But now now is a time of salvation now, right this model, because
Steve:we we talked about the fact that we are in the last times, lots of Christians believe that we are and I do so as well. But then we end up living a life as though we don't. Yeah, is that we're in the last times because when we see things like this, this virus and things going wrong. Oh no, it's terribly. I didn't pray enough. I didn't seek God enough. Oh Father prayed in This would have happened if I did it enough, that would have happened if I know, there are certain things already prophesied, they're already going to happen. And you can pray to the crack, boom, and you ain't going to change us a
Reverend Ben Cooper:prayer isn't going to touch that. No, it's not certain things prayer one time, what it
Steve:will do is it will if we seek God properly Give me the strength, the strength
Reverend Ben Cooper:through that which is coming. So that's the difference. So okay, we're praying, the COVID has gone now in the name of Jesus is gone at one o'clock this afternoon. I think it's gone. Oh, God. We need a bevy. So what we have we have, what we have is, is believers praying to remove COVID. It is not going to go and that's not to say that I'm lacking in my phone because i don't
Steve:i, the COVID might well go tomorrow. I don't know to us to a great degree. I really don't care not worried, right? That is not what exercises my soul but what exercises My soul is mine need that stress.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So when we say right, okay, we're praying that God is going to remove this, whatever our big it is, and it doesn't get removed. What we should be praying is God's strength from a fruit of stone, a sick strength for me and give me wisdom and discernment to how to do the next. ABC. What is in front of me is strength for me for the valley of the shadow of death. Yep. Because as you said, and time and time again, certain things are here to stay that they know now this is probably people will probably bounce with this. But doesn't matter how much you prefer that certain things will still be here as you spend your entire 70 years praying for the same thing.
Steve:So just praying against all please stop the cross and being revealed. Yeah, yeah. That's already been done. Shut up, because the Bible speaks about plagues as well. Yes, it does.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So some things are going to be here. Yep. famines are going to be here was rumors of wars. Yeah. So when we're saying the Lord, can you have complete peace in the earth? That won't happen? No. I've never given so things like that. But what the pressure be and that's not lacking in my faith listeners. Don't Don't get me wrong there. But what we got to understand it is what is the purpose of prayer? What am I praying for? I should be praying Lord, help me seek you more strength for me through the virus strain for me fruit a valley of the shadow of death helped me to get through Monday. Next week, give me the stroke.
Steve:Yeah, I'm in prayer. intercessory prayer is good and right necessary. But the primary of prayer should always be seeking God's face for himself.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that's it. And then we have the great New Testament right? Or three times I pleaded with the Lord. Take this away from me. Still there?
Steve:Yeah, whatever that was, the thing is that, but my grace, My grace is sufficient. And that's what
Reverend Ben Cooper:I love. Please, Lord give me more grace. So that I can walk through this I might carry the affliction it might be with me until the Lord terrorists whatever that may be, but Lord, just give me the strength to get through the day.
Steve:Give me Give me that peace which passes or understanding Yeah, so that when I'm in the middle of the stone, it doesn't affect me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's it. That is it gave me the strength to get through when I'm in the middle of the storm when I'm walking into that when I'm journey and through that, however, long hours moments, whatever. And also, we I don't know if you've tended to do this but I've prayed for situations to be removed and the situations haven't been removed I've had to go right for the situation. I've gone first situation suddenly realized he strapped for me for the situation, and I had to go through it to see what he was doing. But at the beginning of the situation, I'm thinking I'm gonna make this
Steve:so the other thing about it is is that we're all in different places. And we it's necessary for us to come to that place of peace in stone, not just for our own sites, but for the sites of those that are around here so that we can strengthen so that we can lift them up so that we can encourage them you know, somebody once said to me I'm born again why go Don't go take me home I don't really want to stay it's fair enough. But you got work to do it Yeah. Very much
Reverend Ben Cooper:Well, no yeah, that's the thing is that you go work today. So our experiences even though we don't want to experience what we experiences, experience, sorry, our experience encourage others to say if I got through this little God's done for me, a encouraging Yes. Not
Steve:only is I've not been a great lover of that, I was just because God, like for me is going to do it for you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:All right, right? Could we look at it in a way then
Steve:when it comes down to this, if you are going through a particularly difficult time, rather than be a joke, comfort her and come on. You come along and you weep with you will you weep, ah, you encourage and say, I'm here for you. And I will pray for you. Remember, God also is more is with you much more than I am. And then there are simple remedies, simple words of encouragement that we can help one another with. When people are in doubt, for instance, a simple word that, well, you're in the right place, because he's only to believe is that ever down. unbelievers couldn't give a tummy toss? No,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I haven't got a clue. They
Steve:don't care. They don't care. So the only people who struggle with doubt, really, are the believers.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's a great way to look at that. If you're doubting if I doubt the reason I'm doubting is because I believe Yes, I'm believing in God, and my flesh has gone. He got this wrong way. So yeah, that's where it comes from.
Steve:But this is it. You know, we, we've been there. We've gone through that. God has strengthened us through it, God will strengthen you through it. There are times for instance, when it's right to bring scriptures to people.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But yeah,
Steve:if you do not bring people up, do your Bible. No, no, no. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. You know,
Steve:because, as I said earlier on, there are times when I've read the Bible. And that straightened me and got me through. Two weeks later, I need something else. I've gone back to that passage. And it hasn't got the resonance that I had before. So I've got to find something else. So I've found out over the years, that it's no use taking bits of Scripture and kind of given it was
Reverend Ben Cooper:there a cure? Yes, that's right. And that's that's interest in the spiritual side, because I was a good friend of mine who, whose wife had a an accident, a real bad car accident, she paralyzed for a long, long time. And he was a part of a church that is a part of the church. And everyone was gone. We're praying, we're praying, we're praying, we're praying, we're praying, when actually come upon, we said, Listen, don't pray for me anymore. So why don't we cook a dinner? That's it. There comes a point in there where people are bombarding you with all this stuff. And he said, the whole situation that he went through looking after his wife and the children and trying to do everything, he said, there was a little old lady that will get on a bus and bring him a dinner once a week. That was the greatest miracle he saved to give him a practical help sometimes is of God. Yes. But we are looking at the spiritual.
Steve:Well, the problem about ease that we get to be in a boy. Yeah, I know a bloke is going on now. And he he became blind in his early 20s. Oh, yeah. And he, he must have been in his mid 70s. Tommy went on. But people forever pray. God pray for him. You know, continually. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I held an analogy. Yeah.
Steve:He became prayer for for people.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Yeah. I can see what you're saying.
Steve:And it's, yeah. This this, this idea that if we don't pray for him, somehow we're denying appeals. Yeah. We've got a lack of faith. And people end up getting on hobbyhorses. That's right.
Reverend Ben Cooper:If someone comes in, that's not walking properly. There's got hit problems got back problem. Someone comes in a wheelchair someone comes in, that has a life long illness. But they become that prayer. Father, Yes, they do. And it becomes a fixation, and that suddenly you hear God's got a word for someone that's blind it they will, this guy had been in there for six years and been blind all the time. So you gotta be careful of that. You gotta be really careful of that. So how did that make him feel?
Steve:But he was a very stoic chap, and he never said much at all to be perfect. But you got the sense that he got sick and tired of it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Yeah. God's telling me you're going to be healed. And all that sort of, yeah, man. Wait, because our wife and I have
Steve:had various so called prophecies given over us over the years that come to absolutely nothing. And if you hold on to those things, it's going to wreck your faith. It can be dangerous
Reverend Ben Cooper:things very, very soft. Very, very dangerous. Yeah.
Steve:But if people have got a prophecy for me, then can you sit on it for two years and then come and tell me about it? Yeah, we'll let it percolate. Yeah, because too often people get it. Get get some in there. Hate. And it's now now wait. You see, this is true Christians want the best for you. And the best for you is for you to have X, Y or Z. Now, right? So they gotta pray for, and then I walk away. You don't get,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you don't get on your left, hang in there ain't got by that person said, and it doesn't line up with a word. That's, as we always say that we always, always whenever we're doing podcast, whether we're on in front of the camera, whatever we do, we always say, What does the word sight? Check it with the Word of God?
Steve:I've told you this story before. But I'll tell you again, about 30 years ago or so. I was going through my time of growth, which was difficult, I was dealing with a lot of mental problems at the time. And I knew my need of God, I've always known my need Yeah, of God. So there was a friend of my wife and I were very much in the moment and climate. And I said, we really feel that we should be praying, we would we need to pray for you, you see. So I said, All right. Thank you very much. That's good. I love some of that. And so he started praying and praying and praying and then the lady said, unload, give, give Steve 25,000 pounds in his bank account. Why not? The first thought that came into my mind is I'm not interested in 25,000 pounds, my knees of God and the money really, of any use now. And during that particular period of time I was I was close to losing my job. I was made redundant. But it wasn't.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I knew my name was not funny. You said you knew that nature. You needed that, you know, the need that you needed, and it certainly wasn't finances. It was a miracle in your process and your thinking and your mental health.
Steve:Yeah, that's so rich. This lady, you know, knew that I was coming up, but isn't so yeah. Give him 25,000% gets really sick. Yeah, very nice. Thank you very much. But seriously, at the end of the day, that is not what I need.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I don't need that on a piece.
Steve:I need Christ. That's all I need. Yeah. And it's, it's this idea that, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:God is this sugar daddy that we can go down the never everlasting tap, they give you anything you ask for. And they manipulate that scripture. You have not? Could you ask not, please. I mean, there's people asking and asking, well, brothers and sisters, friends, whoever you might be, you know, we've had a good chat around a cup of coffee. And we've been looking in the Word of God, Psalm 42. And we've just run out of time. It's that simple. I thank God for Steve. And really respect my friend in front of me across the table. We thank you for listening and sharing everything we do here in Ealing church, please remember, keep close to Christ, keeping the Word of God seek Him, and He shall be found God bless. Just before they've come to
Steve:Christian strong, yeah, that's a given. And in this particular time of separation. It's difficult for people to be encouraged. If we remember the letter to the Romans, Paul said, I want you to come to you so that I could impart some spiritual gift that is that we could encourage one another now if the Apostle Paul needed encouragement
Reverend Ben Cooper:if he needed encouragement, we all need it.
Steve:Well, my little army right so all I would say to people out there if you need encouragement, or you need to talk to someone or anything like that, go to the website on a limb and leave a message with a contact number that we can get back to you and just talk to you
Reverend Ben Cooper:hundred percent there's absolutely right if you need help, prayer, whatever that need to submit strengthen what I'm just someone to chat. Oh, please, you will find everything, all the contact numbers, the email addresses, the social media sites, everything you will find this alien Swanley and Steve would gladly myself on any one of us would help you them and just just which is what we've you know, we're here for you. So stay safe, keeping the Word of God and as Steve so rightly said, so true. We need to encourage one another. So if we can do that by any way through zoom through social media, text and email and even speak to each other on a phone, amen. Have a great day. Stay safe, and we'll see you very, very simple as you take care. God bless