Hello, and welcome to our podcast Elim church this morning. You are joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and Sandra. As we are looking, as we always do every week into the persecuted church, we thank you for listening. Please share everything you hear. You can find us on many platforms, Spotify, Google Play, Apple play, and so many different other places. Alexa, you will find us in many areas as we are pressing into the world of podcasting. So we thank you so much for sharing everything that we do. We pray that God is working in your life and through this lockdown period, that the power of God is keeping you safe and strong. And never give up. But we are looking today into Pakistan and we're just going to say good morning to Sandra. Good morning, Sandra.
Sandra Robson:Good morning.
Reverend Ben Cooper:How is everything today?
Sandra Robson:Yes. Good day. It's my husband's birthday. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:David's birthday. Yes. Excellent. A lockdown birthday. Yeah. Who'd ever thought a lockdown birthday? Well, Sandra, thank you for everything you do your your time, your commitment to studying and everything that goes on, in in what we look at every week. And we just want to say thank you very much. We wish diver a had a great day to day on his birthday. May God bless him and strengthen him. Right, Sandra? Pakistan, what do we have in Pakistan?
Sandra Robson:Okay, well, we looked at Pakistan last time, and we didn't have time to finish it off. And so we looked at the blasphemy law that's been misused. And we looked at the testimony of a say a baby, who was one who was caught on to that Blasphemy Law and spent eight years on death row. But God rescued her, after many years and many prayers, and brought her out and gave a wonderful testimony that we looked at, and how she wants to encourage other Christians to stand strong. And so we also then look to, you know, the reasons for the anti christian feeling that there's misinformation that goes, it's deep rooted, it's in the education system, because the country is built on an Islamic Society that's very strong. And they are were wary of anything else. And, you know, they they see Christians as as being subversive to their type of living. And, and so there's abductions and forced marriages and things to try and prevent Christianity from developing and expanding. And we also, and now, I thought to look at the discrimination, that also goes on. And a bit like, in other other places we talked about, like India, there is this caste idea. And, and there's discrimination of the, who they deemed to be the lower section of society. And that is where Christianity has really blossomed. And we have things about the brick kiln workers, so they live hand to mouth. And also sewage workers, and many of them have been become Christians, and some who have become Christians have ended up in this work as well. So there's the two ways that it's happened. And sadly, they end up in bondage. Because if they fall sick, or if a problem occurs, and they've got no way of paying for the medication. And so what happens is they have to ask for loans from their employers. And then the employer says, Well, you know, then you're going to have to work for me and pay it back. And they earn so little. So they end up in debt. And it's a vicious circle, and they can't send their children to school. And it's a very, very difficult place. But praise God, as we know, brothers and sisters are wanting to help and support and through Barnabas, many of these people have been brought out of that slavery. Many of these people have been given loans so that they're no longer under the ownership of the brick home worker, managers, owners, and some fantastic stories of whole families being released after maybe a dad has become seriously ill or a mother or some other issue. And they are just they just praise God, and their witnesses just amazing and that affects other people as well. So that's a wonderful thing that we can see. Despite the discrimination and the intimidation, that they are living for Jesus, so maybe we can help them do that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It really is. It's really interesting what you're saying talking about those that are working in the brick farms, the brick works and the sewerage, you know, that comes that reminds me of the Old Testament, you know, Pharaoh weren't making baking bricks in the hot, you know, you can bring in you can look at the Old Testament where it mentions that very clear that the the Israelites they was in that place of captivity, they was captured and it become their normal thing to to work as like slaves only took about the series workers and this is a class thing, isn't it? So then the Christians are being attacked on every level, workplace, village life has been destroyed. Yeah, and terrible what we're hearing about if they fall sick, they they take out loans, they go work harder, they gotta work longer. So they're in this cycle Yeah, of where they're becoming dependent on the on this job. And there's no way of coming out of that cycle. That's just like, the Israelites under the hand of Pharaoh, maybe it became their normal thing to be treated bad to live in very bad conditions. And they they said didn't know when when Moses got them out. Why have you brought us out here to die? It's better for us to stay back? Well, he was. So you need to be really careful when you look at this story, because this has spiritual implications to going back into the Old Testament really interested in that they are baking bricks, making bricks in the bit in the brick field, and working in sewage farms.
Sandra Robson:Yeah, it's very dangerous job. They know they're they're not given the safety equipment that he should be, you know, and sadly, you know, some sewage workers have died. And and that has been reported. And, and there, there are, you know, groups that are Christian groups that are campaigning about this, and particularly CSW have them the child tree foundation and president of the sessile and Irish childhood foundation have told you know, CSW that unfortunately, this mindset has been nurtured over decades and is deep rooted. Yeah. And so what they're trying to do, as Barnabas are helping people coming out of this slavery, and enabling their children to go to school. So they're doing a similar thing, and that was, they had a petition, and I think it was last year or the year before about allowing children to be educated, and the freedom of education. And their desire is to mix the children together. And both Muslims and Christians and for them to see that they are people. And, and to see that you know that and not to have this sort of divide, yes, mindset and this stereotyping, but to appreciate one another. And they feel that if it starts at that level, then it will work through society. Yes, it will. So that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:something to capture that, isn't it? Yeah. The children together. Yeah. And then live together edgy, being educated together, growing up together. Yeah. And that will, that's a good, great thing to do. You can see the great work of God for that showing the love for just coming together. And like the Bible says, let us reason together, let us be together. Let's have no divide. Yeah, no divide.
Sandra Robson:So obviously, there is pressure against this, but it is happening and they are, they are making inroads, but it you know, it is slow, but praise God that these things are happening. And, you know, God gives wisdom in these things. And looking at prayer. And the things that, you know, we can pray about is to pray about the stopping the misuse of the blasphemy law that will not target Christians. And there's a new bill that's being proposed against forced conversion, including marriage, and pray, if that's implemented, that that will be fairly implemented. And as we spoke last week, we said about that cases of and that children, young teenage girls, and being married and, you know, forced to become Muslims, and that, you know, that this bill would stop that happening, and would not be misused the other way. And that's what they're concerned about. That is so There's a case at the moment, my or 13 year old and it's been up in court. And they have been told by the court at the moment that their child will not be returned to the parents, because they the other side has provided evidence and said that she decided willingly to go with this man and be his wife. And but siesta w have shown that this is not the case that the documents are not true and that she isn't 18 out of six oh, sorry, 16. It's before they can get married at 16 in Pakistan, okay. And they said, No, she is 13. And she is a minor. And they've brought that before and the UN, the parents are now going to the High Court. So we need to pray about that. Because thinking back to see a baby, yes, sometimes it has to go right. Right top, because then exposing Yeah, and it will make a statue.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, everybody. We're not just
Sandra Robson:for this family, but for many families. And so this is ongoing at this time. And so it's a real thing, you know, to pray about, for Pakistan.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So I'm talking about targeting prayer. So this is a good position, a good place to target this. So this gives us information. We pray over this situation with praying to this, that this family will get the answer that's required. Because we often think to ourselves hack, how can I help I'm, I'm in the UK on I'm in Europe, and I'm nowhere near that. So what's needed is believers to come together in prayer, because we know from scripture that prayer changes things. And we might not see that we might not completely see the answers to everything. But prayer is needed in the world of the persecuted church with our sisters and brothers. So this is a great, great story that we can target with prayer. So as Sandra was saying, as it gets to the top to the High Court, right to the very top, everything gets exposed. So we pray that justice will pronounce that God will make a way where these families will will be able to get their children back. And this will this will cease this is this is really important into forced marriage being pushed into Islam.
Sandra Robson:Yes. And yes, it's to do with some teaching in the Quran that some of the Muslims believe, but what we're praying for is that the overall, you know, statutes and constitution of Pakistan is for freedom for religions freedom. And, and so, as it was seen, in I say, a baby's case, that in this case, it will be seen, and whoever is presiding, will look to the good of the child. And, and you know, under laws, and will not be intimidated
Reverend Ben Cooper:by culture, by that by culture,
Sandra Robson:but do what is what is right. Yeah, so by praying that, you know, there will be a fair hearing. And, yeah, so that those are the two key things when I was praying that those are the two key things for Pakistan is the blasphemy law not being misused. And for the bill of marriages, that not ending up being misused, either. And also for the future, is about the education and that God will make away there, and the loans for businesses thank him for that. And pray that the hate will turn to love by this witness so in their lives, and turn people's Jesus then just shining the light Vader have a remembrance from the couple of years ago, for Christmas. They had a girl from Pakistan holding a candle and light the light in in the area where she was, and Shawna, wow, her face, you know, and she was saying that they are still shining a light for Jesus. And in Romans, it says, 1212 I know there's another verse we were looking at as well, but it says patient endurance is maintained by steadfastness in prayer. And that's it. We can pray and things do change. There have been changes and we can continue to pray and thank the Lord for the good things that he is doing and encourage our brothers and sisters in this way. And if you really want to encourage further, as I said, on Sunday is the 15th of November from seven 30 to 830. There is a special online International Day of Prayer event being held by open doors, CSW in release International. And I found it best to get registered through release International. You do have to register. They do want to know who is coming on board with this. Yeah, before Sunday, and they will be looking at China, Nigeria and India. And so that's something to think about as well.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So they'll go to sighs release International.
Sandra Robson:Yeah, that was the easiest one. You can you can get to it on the others, but you have to do a bit more searching. But release International. As soon as you go on their site, this box comes up and it says, and I do P which stands for International Day of Prayer. Yeah, for the persecuted. And then click on that. And it'll send you through to the site where you can register and have a ticket, but it's free free, but it's just they
Reverend Ben Cooper:saw this this Sunday at 715. Yes, yeah. That'd be great. I'll try and get into that myself. It's really, really important. Sandra has mentioned the Scripture, we got Romans chapter 12. Talks really, really powerfully about prayer. It says in verse, verse 12, of Romans 12 be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer, share, it says, share verse 13, share the Lord's with the Lord's people who are need practice hospitality. But then in verse 14, it says, bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse, prayer and blessing. prayer and blessing. So that'd be an interesting evening. 730 Yeah, persecuted church online. Yeah, right in. So get your ticket and support that because that will be really, really interesting. And that will be so easy to get into. And we thank God for electronic devices, we can access everything so easily now. But it's just getting a little bit old fingering really so Sandra, there is a lot going on in Pakistan isn't there? There's a there's a lot happening. The blasphemy laws the the pressure to get children converted over from marriage. falseness, education talking about the slight the area of slaves in the bricks, and then the sewage farms and everything that goes along with that. It's, it's quite heavy, isn't it? As a lot of oppression there.
Sandra Robson:Yes, there is.
Reverend Ben Cooper:A lot of white there is. But there is a lot of joy. Yes. When we say the pictures and the images that you show us there is a real joy amongst the persecuted believers. And we know that God is moving very powerful in these End Times. So the book the blasphemy laws, that's a quite an easy way to target Christians, isn't it?
Sandra Robson:Yes, it is, sadly. And they can just say that, you know, they miss and spoke about Mohammed in some way, you know, yeah, fit Mohammed. And, you know, that they can use it to guess back about disputes. If they have like an argument, sadly, yeah. Or they don't like their neighbor next door, they decide. And through social media research saw last week that, you know, they can accuse people of Miss typing things. And it's very, it's very easy to do. And, unfortunately, they're sort of, you know, people are encouraged to do it in some way. And, and there's, there's just so much missing misinformation. And that's that that's the sad thing that you know, that what we want, you know, what the Christians desire is to show the love of Jesus, and for them to know that it's the way the truth and the life and without that they know that they can't, they're not going to heaven. And that's what's so important in these days, isn't it that we have that hope, and that eternal hope? And, and, yeah, there's, you know, the other faiths believe they're the right way. And so they want to shut down Christianity, they want to shut it down. And of course, the enemy is happy with that. That's what he wants. He just want people to know the truth. That's correct. So, so this is the thing and so this is why we need to pray and we need to seek the Lord in these days for our brothers and sisters in Pakistan, to shine that light and that light will grow brighter and brighter, even through the suffering that they will give that message there, you know, because on the ground, you know, it's individual Isn't it? We've been saying it's getting it's getting to know people, I pray for those opportunities, they can speak with their neighbors. Yeah. And continue and show that love man. And we pray that they just have that, you know, keep on going and keep on going and keep on loving.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's important. What sort of prison sentences? Do people get sound? Oh, is it? Is it like a year? Six months? Or is it is it is it like long term?
Sandra Robson:Oh, it's long, as long as it's long. And also, it's long for it to come to justice to come to it, you know, they can be waiting. They can be in, you know, in prison or, you know, awaiting trial for a long time. And the legal thing goes on and on. I mean, one of them's been six years waiting, you know, to have a
Reverend Ben Cooper:hearing just to have the hair. Yeah.
Sandra Robson:I mean, it's it, you know, this. Yeah, there's people who are, you know, really kept waiting and waiting. And there's so much pressure on the legal system not to do things. And as we've said, also, some of them, you know, if it before it even gets to court, some people will take it into their own hands, to, to deal with it to deal with it. Help us you know, so
Reverend Ben Cooper:prayer is needed. Yeah. is needed. So Sunday evening, remember to register a really important, you know, release international CSW open doors all? Are they all involved in this? And are they all
Sandra Robson:they are? Yeah, open doors release international CSW and also an Evangelical Alliance. So we're on the other side, when I was looking how to
Reverend Ben Cooper:how to get
Sandra Robson:people know how to do it. And also, if you miss it, I mean, there are some updates, like I noticed that the the webinar that I looked at the other day, they've now got a catch up thing that you can look at as brilliant, you know. And so if you do miss it, there are opportunities. There is a lot of things online that you can can look at. And a lot of encouraging stories, a lot of things that you're just not hearing in the media, wonderful things that God's day, how he you know, he turns situations upside down, although it seems there's no way he makes a way. And and it's it's, you know, it's hard. People are hard pressed. And that's what Paul says doesn't break in here.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah.
Sandra Robson:Yes, not crushed, not cross. And you know, it can carry on Keep going. Keep going is quite
Reverend Ben Cooper:interesting. You just mentioned, you mentioned the word news, with what's across the airwaves at the moment, the political things that are going on, in the COVID. You never hear anything. On the BBC News here anything on Sky News anywhere about Christians being persecuted. We have all this news that is just completely all about the particular area of life. It's is so far from what we hear when you look and study and see what's going on in the persecuted world. of the of the believer, that is serious news. And you never see Christians coming on these news channels, saying what is really happening. You don't see anything to do with Christianity. The way it's persecuted whatsoever. Yeah, at the moment, we have the big thing across the pond going on, and it's just flooding the airwaves. Yes. Always stuff that's going on. And you think that's not really knows?
Sandra Robson:No,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it has no real weight. It has no real bearing. It's just what the media wants us to be fed with.
Sandra Robson:Yes, it is very subjective. It's not facts. Facts.
Reverend Ben Cooper:This time for week after weak moment after moment, this area that has been going on for years. This is this is News. If this was to get on the news channels. Yeah. How different would it be?
Sandra Robson:Yeah, I mean, this is real. These are real stories. There's really happening, you know, a lot of what we're hearing his people's ideas, suggestions, possibilities of things happening, their views about things. There is, you know, some fact, within it all, yeah, but it's very narrow and it's very channeled in a particular direction. And so this is another reason why it's good that we can do these podcasts because it expands our worldview. And it just gives a different perspective on things and You know, and that's what God wants. He wants us to have that perspective. So he wants us to see what's really going on not just what we see right in front of us. But beyond that, beyond that, because we are one one body and and he's saying, look, this is my church. And as as it said, in that scripture you're looking at, you know, weep with those who weep, rejoice with those who rejoice, you know, in Romans, isn't it here is saying, Yeah, and bless those who persecute you bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep and be the same mind would one another do not set your mind on higher things. So, you know, the things that were on the airwaves, that they're not things that he's saying we should be interested in. And if your enemy is hungry, you feed him if he's thirsty, give him a drink. And so we can learn from what we're seeing here. Yeah, I see a BB guy gave a drink. And how would work through that and so encourages, you know, to keep on going do not overcome, be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good,
Reverend Ben Cooper:we're a lovely line that
Sandra Robson:is modeled for that
Reverend Ben Cooper:what beautiful scripture verse 21 of Romans, that we just read it out there. That is so so powerful, do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good,
Sandra Robson:yes, um, that's what they're doing. And that's why we're praying. Keep on doing Yeah. And that God will make a way where there seems to be no way with these you know, the marriage thing and other things we know in, you know, Egypt, similar things are going on. And Nigeria, similar things are going on, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:can you imagine if Then, we're going to finish in a moment. Yeah, you can imagine if the news channels would pick these stories up. If the news channels would pick these fact, these real stories of children of real life scenarios, if face was put onto the airways as much as the sorry, false news is put out there. Imagine how it would turn things around. Imagine that, but we are flooded with fake We are, we are flooded with Falstaff stuff that's very immaterial, it has no real eternal value is. But what it's doing is this news is confusing people, upsetting people, when this could be classed as heavier, but it is. But it is fact and it will free people and it will change people's lives.
Sandra Robson:And it's rooted in Scripture, and it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:in the Scripture. So we need to pray that the news channels will will put this will someone will pick a mantle up and go Do you know what the Christians are being killed? The Christians are being forced in marriage that the Christians are being treated brutal. But you can watch the news 24 hours a day, seven days a week and you will not pick on a secular news channel anything about Christianity? And we need to pray that God will turn that around. Yes, Sandra, what would you say just as we come to a close?
Sandra Robson:Well, yeah, just thank you for listening. Thank you for everybody who is taking up the mantle as it were to tell others about what's going on in the persecutor church, I pray that what I share with you you pass on and it helps you and encourages you to pray and support you in your prayers. And yeah, we'd like to hear from you to know how this is helping you what else you would you know like to hear as well. And yeah, we in support each other, encourage one another, you know, in this lockdown time. And I just thank the Lord that we have this opportunity and to share these things today. I just thank him very much, and give him all the praise.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Amen. So thank you everyone for listening and sharing everything that goes out you can catch us on all the social media sites so you can see an easy to find us. Just type in Reverend Ben Cooper podcast and they will come up everywhere. Please share this. This is really important. The persecuted church really needs our prayers. And we thank Sandra for her study time her commitment to Christ for the gift that God has gifted Sandow with this, this great Ministry of love and concern and compassion for our sisters and our brothers in in the persecuted church. So in the suffering church. So Sandra, we thank you. Thank you for joining us this morning. We'll catch you next week. And may God bless every one of you. You've been listening to Sondra and myself Reverend Ben Cooper here in elim church. Have a great week. Stay safe. Keep in the Word of God God bless bye bye, amen.