Welcome to our podcast here at Elim church in Swanley. Your listen to myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and good friend Chris Millan at this hour is Friday afternoon. Friday evening is Friday evening 10 to 710 to seven, we're sitting in our little podcasting room, you might hear a few snores we've both had every day every week. But we've got a good friend of ours, Chris Mullin here and we're just gonna chat around the mics as we always do. And Chris is just going to share a little bit of his testimony about his work about his life, how he came into being a believer, and he's a really interesting guy, and he's really gifted in the world of prophetic art. Music. I'm gonna I'm gonna let him tell me, Chris, thanks, my friend for coming to share this, this time of on a Friday evening after a long week.
Chris Millin:Welcome Shabbat shalom.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Shabbat shalom. I love that. I love that. Chris, can you just give us a little bit of an insight to the ministry work? The prism work? Everything I know, we've only got 3540 minutes. But can we have a quick rundown of your story? Starting from whenever
Chris Millin:it's not from prison, start from prison. Okay, yeah. So the work I'm currently doing in prison is nothing at all, unfortunately. Well, there is there is some some stuff going on at the moment. But the lads in the prisons on 23 and a half hour lockdown because of the current
Reverend Ben Cooper:because of the pandemic,
Chris Millin:because of the pandemic. No, no visitors are still allowed in. And it's a very tough time for them. And we are we are doing at the moment we're doing some putting some CDs together with with music and bits of bits of teaching, like soundbite pictures and messages. And we've been delivering art packs and testing, which is best we can do in the in the circumstances.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Sure. So when when you're in prison when you're your job, your role. What does that normally in town? What what are you taking in prophetic art? Are you just going in as an art teacher? What Harry's that what what you actually do?
Chris Millin:So the official title was community artist. And and I guess my role is to discover the community artists that there are within the prison. Yeah. And the whole thing is about is about community. It's about it's about sharing ideas. It's about learning about ourselves, and learning about art predominantly. through conversations and being in an art room full of materials. But one of the one of the other main things that we do is murals. I so we get commissioned maybe for a certain part of the prison. And we think about what what that area is maybe it's the industries corridor, where all the industry workshops Go on, they learn they learn different things, they might do laundry, they might do make headphones, they might do recycling. So in that corridor, for instance, we might do for in one of the prisons, we did a massive mural on the whole stretch of that wow corridor. And it was really the aim of it was to a tell people inform people what what was going on in that corridor, but also just to lift people's moods should have positive thought provoking, quote, quotes or messages for the artwork and Frou Frou Frou written wordings that was on the wall
Reverend Ben Cooper:powerful stuff, get a quick rundown of what a prison wall is it just a long flat, very clinical very wide and quite a heavy wall could be oppressive.
Chris Millin:More often that is the case. And what often happens is that people try and break that space down by filling out with notice boards. And so you get repetitive repetitive yet healthy safety things you get the things that you do need their backups, you just get an abundance of them. Yeah, either that or this is nothing new at all.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that could be quite heavy on its own just a long war with nothing, no expression of life on it. So you come along and you put some form of expression of what's happening in the corridors on the worship
Chris Millin:workshops on the wall. The key the key aspect of it is is that the the prisoners themselves decide what needs to enter can can enter like a contained environment. Yeah, they will, they will we will all discuss and we will bring all the ideas of what needs to be said on these walls. And we go through the process of thinking about all the different things communities that might use this space like the teachers, the the different groups of men or women that will come and use those spaces may be visitors. And we think about all those elements of the community and and an ideas turn into artworks that then get put onto the wall.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Fantastic. So the wall sort of becomes a colored wall with culture with life, expression of heart of mind thinking body soul, pressed onto the wall to bring a better life to a corridor. How did you get into this? This world of artwork Chris, as a child for school
Chris Millin:would be honest, I think in the 80s, when in the 80s, when I was a teenager didn't have much to do kick in about Yeah, the breakdancing and hip hop culture that came along and everything in that just resonated with me the rap in the mix and scratching the DJ and the dancing and of course the graffiti artwork the graffiti artwork what what really sparked me was that here is like deprived
Reverend Ben Cooper:yet
Chris Millin:tattered cities and parts of cities and towns and the people the people the poor, poor people were able to have a voice by expressing ourselves in our on some of these places that were abandoned you know, they made very ugly places look look quite beautiful in you know, in their own way and and and gather the community a voice and that's always resonated with me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that's where I started off where did you grow up? What town was it roughly
Chris Millin:mainly Dartford To be honest, yeah, Dartford was I was I wasn't 10 years old. I moved to Dartford and I've been in this area since ever since.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So you find that through being a young a young child come out through teenage years that you're talking about hip hop, breakdancing, that cultural center go together then the beatbox spray and the big box vape box, you know, the big box, the big red beatbox you know,
Chris Millin:for me, that was an identity I find in that family. It was Yeah, I guess because there was a handful of people in my hall of Dartford. If there was someone who was into hip hop in, in talking to early 80s Yeah. And your friends for life and I can still I still speak to those. handful of D Really? Yeah, still last week? Because Because music bonds, you know, haven't you know, we just bonded we had that same we just the culture. You know, we'll just kind of like resonated with that culture. And, and not all of them but as they speak to most of them. Yeah, half of them probably.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's really interesting. So music. So would you say music and artwork go together very, very closely.
Chris Millin:Well, Muse, music and art. It's all part of the art
Reverend Ben Cooper:part of the same. Is it part of the art expression of of yourself?
Chris Millin:When you think of Hippo? Yeah, we think of all those elements, for instance. Yeah, for example, the dancing, this the mixing and scratching, yeah, rapping and poetry, the graffiti art and all of that, that it's all comes under one pattern. That is the arts.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting. My mind's going back to what I remember, as a teenager. And I remember the guys that was into all that breakdancing. Oh, and I can see him walking down a row with a bit liner underneath their arm, waiting to do you know, do some back spins and all sorts of things. It was interesting watching it. And actually sometimes late at night when I just get in. And we've we've had every day in church and all sorts of things going on there. There's a certain a flick on to social media. And there's this a follow up this kind of what they're called, they're this, like this young hip hop. I just watched it, because it's fascinating to watch. I'm having to call it burns down
Chris Millin:there. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Unbelievable. And they're not young kids. You know, they're like 2530s. And there's two brothers, I kind of know what their names are, but from America, and I just watch it. And I think how clever and how gifted you are. And then like, it's like jumping into a boxing ring, but a dancing ring, a dance off, I don't know what I'm done. I'm not. I got no street cred whatsoever. I just wear a collar and do a few funerals and do a little bit of preaching. But I'll tell you what to but to watch what they do. And watch the way they interact and the way they watch each other as it's like they go. It's like war watching a war happen on the dance floor. It's really clever, really clever the way they express themselves the way they they speak through their movement without making any sound from their mouth whatsoever. They speak through that and it's a great thing to watch. So as a young teenager, you got into That world of dance and the beatbox and the roller liner under your arm and all that in Dartford and the shell so do Chelsea.
Chris Millin:I didn't ever sell. So I had the I had the ghetto blaster.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Whoa, a great image to tell you, I love it. I really love it. I really love it. It's fantastic. So how did you say we know? I know not these guys listening, they will do so and I know that you're right into into music DJ and now you're into the Christian side of all that and what where you go explain a little bit how you got into that Chris, in the world of DJ is sprang obviously from that.
Chris Millin:Well, I always say 1984 music saved my life. Really? That's what I say my bio. Yeah, but in 1994 Jesus saved myself hallelujah. Fantastic. I thought I thought I'd found everything I was looking for in 1984. But little did I know that my soul was desperately in need of being saved. And I found Jesus I found Christ in 1994. And it wasn't wasn't that long after becoming a Christian, because I was always writing lyrics. As I started, my raps were more Christ centered. Only just coming into the kingdom, it took me a while to understand the scriptures understand fully that you know, understand the gospel, but more of the gospel. And so that that became you know, straightaway it was it was already my ministry. But now it was Christ focused,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Christ centered. So there's a great conversion going on. I can't Christ come in and save you and give you a hope and a future. And you've carried that all the way through right to this hour. Every year and the ventures and the journeys that you've been, you've been I before with music, you go to a few clubs in town with music, what's, how does that spread out? And the ministry that that's evolving with all what's going on with that? So you've always been what I would call a DJ, is that the right terminology?
Chris Millin:Yeah, yeah, I've always I've always mucked about turntables. Yeah. And, and, and always written lyrics, and just love and always loved the graffiti art, but as a whole can really appreciate a lot of art. But I suppose when I when I became a Christian, it was natural for the writing to be become focused around, but it's natural for the lyrics to be focused around Christ. And for the group, the graffiti art I was always doing. Yeah. images that would represent Christ and His love. And also the DJing I found that it was though, I found actually, that a lot of the music that I'd been listening to from the 80s and came out of the church. Really, yeah, James Brown was a big part of basically a big influence, massive influence on me. And in the 80s there was no such thing as the internet. But when I saw him on video for the first time, yeah, I saw an image of him and him speaking, he, he said, You've got to get yourself wrapped with God. And that time I thought he was crazy. I thought, you know, the drugs are just on his head. Because I didn't know Christ then myself. But of course when I became a Christian, I realized that all the artists so much massive majority of the artists that I listened to had Christian roots and some are still practicing. But most mostly they you know, though, you'd see credits on the back or you might just get cash elements of it in some of their songs. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, it's very interesting like I never really took much notice believe it bulletin much notice of this sorry, believe it or not, but Burnham by the rules of Babylon.
Chris Millin:Yeah. I have scripture suddenly,
Reverend Ben Cooper:honestly. years. Yeah. From the Psalms. All these years been a believer for money. Yeah. You're singing a song.
Chris Millin:Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:anon never realized. But that sort of music goes out in the clubs and then you've got people singing it and dancing to it. You've got all the things that go on your singing scripture. Absolutely. It's amazement the last few years I've suddenly realized you know, like Mary Mary and only sort of stuff out there and the older clubs saying that sort of music I can remember as a teenager for Wow, yeah. All night she was out a lot of that music
Chris Millin:was the gospel. There's always been an element of, of the gospel in the club. Music and when I when you when you kind of when you really just take a look and listen like you say, you know, Mary Mary, but no The underground scene lots of lots of artists grew up in the church and that came out in their music. And I found as a Christian I was always into the underground music, the house, the hip hop and the love to house music. But when I became a Christian I, I had to compromise my music taste. Okay, soft rock was never me. But worship in Jesus, yeah, I found Okay. Well, it doesn't actually matter what music is it's the heart matters. And so I found I could appreciate Christ through any type of music, even Country and Western, which wasn't my my, you know, that wasn't my Yeah, wasn't my cup of tea at all. But what I did find was that there was this, I would say, probably about 3% of house music that was coming out of the US was gospel, and, and pure gospel, you know, pure unadulterated, we're talking about Jesus, we're praising Jesus, you know, we're singing about God. And so I would spend a lot of my days in bargain basements, record and tape exchange shops, or in around London, looking for these gospel gems. And I would just collect me even if I had 234 copies, because I knew that, you know, there was a whole community of people who would fit in there in the kingdom, who would really appreciate having having these. And in those days, there was not many Christian DJs, or there were some, but there certainly wasn't any worship for DJs. the only the only real group that I can think of at the time that were real worshipers were the worldwide message tribe.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. There's a name from the eyes a blast from the past. Yeah.
Chris Millin:No, they were real inspiration to me. Because they were sold out for Christ. Absolutely. I sold out Christ. It was all about Christ. And and their music. Although it wasn't the rule underground via Yeah, I was used to, it was enough for me. Yeah, the fact that they would listen to electronic dance music, and they would lead worship in that way. But apart from that, oh, I tried. I tried all the question bookshops in all in all around London, literally, any Christian bookshop, I found I would go in there. And there was just not the music that I was looking for. Wasn't there? It was in the record shops.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's in a record, it was in the record shops, the secular, the secular read,
Chris Millin:that's all it was. And it wouldn't be in its own section, you'd have to like flick through it would be in the US House section or just
Reverend Ben Cooper:all mixed up?
Chris Millin:Yeah. So you'd have to just, wow, dig a rat dig and find it and what didn't it have its own identity as in that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So would obviously, all this, what we're talking about a lot of it the roots of all come from America, when you talk about house?
Chris Millin:A lot of it, a lot of it? Not all of it, because the UK and other places has had its own its own polls, yeah. If you like of, of this type of music. But but the baton predominantly was coming from the States coming from Chicago, and New York, but across the whole of the states really. And I guess because there's a mass there's a massive the whole Bible Belt, you know, you've got massive areas of Yeah, of really strong Christian communities. And so I guess that's why you would get a lot of a lot of gospel house music coming out of America.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's it's really fascinated me the last, I suppose about the last year that I've started to really realize that I've got my my ears to the music that's on on all platforms, what we listen to it, you've got so much music coming out with secular really heavy stuff. And obviously, I've spent a legend now I spent a lot of time in IB fast but not please remember not now got color. Go. have repented I spent a lot of time and our beef in the party world pork pie culture. And it really interest trust me to think that the music that was out there as well that I was listening to I did not realize even though I was a Christian and a believer had the gospel in it. It really it really got really looks off to you even though you're out doing what you're doing and things that are going on there is still around you the element of the Word of God. And I never realized until recently until we linked and start really talking about music and starting to find out more about what you do and when you said that you've been there before and done what you've done out there where you would have the music. And so I was on the other side of the DJ I have the wrong side. So I know what that's like that party culture and thinking now of the music you thinking, Oh my gosh, God was with me even they're coming through coming through that the gospel coming through the airwaves coming. It's like amazing that, that wherever you go, God speaks for creation. He speaks for music. You think that you just because you might be in a nightclub in Ibiza that you've escaped? Because I'll be honest with you. I rebelled. I rebelled. I grew up as a Christian. And I thought, right, okay, don't exist. I'm going to prove he doesn't exist. And I've I've had experiences different places around the world where, like, God is gone. I'm here. You know, not not like that. But you know, say where the realization that hang on. Can't get away from I remember going to America never going to America. I was on this Sunland and thinking year. I'm here. Yeah. This is this is real life. And I was laying there. And I fell in my spirit. God, I felt it. And I sat right. And I said, God, I'm so sorry. So in the world of have spent a lot of time in the clubs in London spent a lot of time the clubs in our bay for 10 a roof over them sore places. So I know the other side of the DJ booth. I know that side. I know that. That that party side of that. So mute. So this is I think why I'm so fascinated at the moment. Because I can see the world that I was living in was a very dark world. But the gospel was still feed him and Yeah, it is. It's It's amazing. I love it. I love the fact that whatever was going on, he never left me nor for certainly, he was with me. Can you give us a quick rundown, Chris, on how and what you were doing in IB fo and music and what you've done recently, just a quick, just a quick spin on that sort of thing.
Chris Millin:Yeah. First of all, just touching on what you've just said there that you had you realized that God was with you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes.
Chris Millin:That really highlights just how vital it is. That that that there are meat producers and DJs who are pointing in that direction. Yes. And that always has been. Yeah, and there is and there and there is certainly is now and and to go into that place to be in that state of rebellion and a Yeah, hear the gospel coming over the airwaves. And then be Yeah, have someone come up to you and evangelize to or just days past just put that you know, just give you Christ come with Christ. Then you know, you know that that he that it doesn't matter where I go like in Psalm 139 it says I can go I can make my bed and shower Yeah, I can make my bed in that the hell but but you will find that you can get to the bottom of the sea. Wherever I go the highest heavens wherever I go. Nice lovely. You're not away. Yeah, you're still there, God. And then there's people I know who've been on the same journey be a Christian Yeah, gone into that gone into the gone into the rebellious stage and gone into the the nightclubs to to get up to whatever they you know, in their heart to do. And they found someone come and witness to them. And they found someone bring Christ at another word sighs that the my church will go forward? Yes. Jesus says when it's talking about Peter was talking about the revelation. This is my church will go forward and the gates of hell shall not stop. Stop it. And so for a long time these places of iniquity Yeah, and yet yes, yes. I've been a no go area. Yeah, for the church. For for obvious reasons. Exactly. But that they, in a way I've been that that's allowed it to be a recreation area for the devil is because who's gonna come in here bringing the light. Okay, so it comes over there hit the airwaves. But now there are there is a strong there are strong growing communities of Christian DJs and producers who are going to festivals to clubs in like groups in pairs and groups who are focused on missional on outreach, work with their music all over the world. And I've been blessed to be a part in the last three years of a group called DJ unity. And it is Christian DJs there's 100 and about 130 members So far, it's a close group on Facebook, but we meet we meet to digitally at the moment, yes, but we would also meet, you know, we would meet and share what what God has been doing in our lives, lift each other up and pray for specific areas of the music industry price for each other's projects we're working on and, and work with each other, lift each other up and encourage each other origin. So it's because this work is vital, you know, this work of going into those dark places. Jesus said he would go, you know, why would he go to the well, you know, the people who are not here we go to the sick this right here it goes to the dark places, you know, he would go to those those places of, you know, of iniquity, yeah, he would talk to sinners, because they're the ones who need the hope that answer need the
Reverend Ben Cooper:light, I can actually feel my heartbeat when I really, and I'm just sitting here, just listen to what you're saying. And my heart is beating quite heavy, because I realized that God is working in in places. And you said something really important you so where the church won't even go down that road won't even go down that road, but you've got Christian DJs going in and bringing the Gospel and that's what I experienced, but I never knew that. I never know that all the time I was in that environment. I never knew that. I would always call it the devil's playground, you know, where you could get some powder and also do do whatever anything goes the recreational ground of hell. But even when I was in my darkest area, darkest time, that gospel makes me What makes what a crime and think about it. That the power of His word is used in music speech across the airwaves, that the journey that I had was a crazy journey. But I see now as I look back and it really interests me the the world of Christian DJs man what God has set me free from what you sent me but that music was there but I never realized what it was all even though I was brought up in though in a in a Christian home in the rebellion kicks in you just seem to kick back and go but he got all this noise likes glitz and glamour and everything happened under under in that dark den. But the gospel was coming over the power of His Word. Well mighty God we serve. Amen. And you know as we've experienced this lockdown and everything that we're going for it must be really difficult because what you saying it always be together, gathering together but obviously the clubs are shot all that sort of stuff and obviously social distance in it be like a long time before. We don't know what's going to happen in that area where they open up. But you know, it's it's great what God has called you to, to do, Chris and for the power of music, the way that you are gifted and you even play the bongos. Oh, man, I've heard you play them on early morning prayers. And I tell you what, you can feel the Jesus vibe. Oh, you can feel it. It's great. Have you? Is there any other instruments to play? For you just knock around them?
Chris Millin:Not really. No. I love percussion. Yeah, I can I can jump into percussion anytime. I've got a guitar. And I love the feel of it. But I can't really play it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I'll tell you a quick story about guitar, right? I'm not I cannot play music. I cannot read music. I cannot even understand it. I was put into a church. And they had no musicians. I had to play the guitar. You know what? It was awful. It was so bad. Like to lead worship. I entered the church. Healing was expecting a revival. And you could hear the cat screaming in my son of the church floor legging it on a Sunday morning. It was gruesome. I will never I am not gifted I'm not gifted in that area whatsoever. It is an area isn't it where you got to know that you are really cold to be because it's such a such a place. But then you look at you look at Lucifer, the worship leader. Now I can get some understanding and some full on clear pattern of how he uses music. in that in that den, in that dark place the power of the dark side of music. But then the power of the Christ side of music breaks the dark side. So there is a spiritual battle. Even in even in these clubs, for sure push without any shadow of a doubt. When Christ goes into them clubs don't work. What goes into them dark places. The more we're talking about this, the more My mind is racing away and thinking, then great big venues, I used to be in all in big, big places and crash was there. He was very real, very, very prominent to fruit, a world of music and his presence and, and protection and all that sort of stuff. And since we we've been chatting all about this, and it's been a bit more opened up. You've through the lockdown. And as I said, for the lockdown, we are started looking, just scanning social media and a few things and I came across them that DJ, that was one of the top DJs and I be thrown out what just fascinated watching him in a find out and you tell me he's a Christian? boxing, boxing clown. Amazing. And then DJ spin, DJ spin up. Yep. So I'm thinking this is this is amazing how God is using the power. And he always says, the power of music, to set the captives free to draw people in. Chris has been absolutely fascinating chatting with you. It's been fascinating. And we thank you so much for your time. What would you What are you? I've gotta be careful, because we could go on for so much longer. And I don't want to, you know, push this because we could chat for hours. And we're going to do more podcasts on this area. What What advice would you give to people that are looking to get into the world of DJing? music? Where would you point them? Because it's a very unusual area, to me that he got a something as a Christian out there looking to start, where would they go? Would they link up with just because you don't see it in church? Do? It's not like a walk in a church and go, Oh, there's a couple of DJs it's
Chris Millin:there. But it's very small. Such a small community? Well, it's very spread out. But what what communities like DJ unity and critical mass have been vital. Really? And if somebody was and God is for sure, raising up Christians, yeah, at the moment, Christians have never DJ before.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes. And
Chris Millin:quite a few of the people that I know have said what DJ, I'm a Christian DJ has never been my thing. But God is ready to rock coordinator to dance music. And, and so a lot of a lot of the people in the group are, are you wouldn't say they're professional, you know, really professional. But then, of course, there are people there are people have been in the music industry for for many years. long standing well known people as well, who really know the music industry. But I would really recommend for people like that to people who are thinking that this is something that they should get. Yeah, you know, they should look into to find yourself a community, be around like minded people. I spent for many years, not being understood by the church and not being understood by the world.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I can, I can grab that understands
Chris Millin:I was going to record shops, and I would ask them for gospel house and they would give me anything that sounded sell for that wasn't really what I was looking for sure. And in the church, of course, they didn't really understand. But now there is a, as I say, a growing community. There are growing communities in different places around the world. So I would highly recommend people to get in touch with those communities, because they will find people who understand you. And you'll find opportunities in place to grow. Really,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Chris, we thank you so much for your time tonight. And we just pray that we bring this to a close. It's really important that we pray for the deejays that go into these places, and they will reopen they will get back into these areas of ministry. We need to pray over i beefer and all these sort of places. So we're just going to pray right now as we just bring this to a close. And Father, we thank you for Chris and father as Chris sits across the other side of this podcasting table to me, Lord, I just pray, Lord, that you'll protect him and his ministry, Lord and all the others Lord, the names that he's mentioned, Father, the area's this community that's growing Father, we pray, and we thank you that you are using this and you have used this. So Lord, we just ask you now that you will bless and you will draw out as Chris was saying, as well that you will draw out those from that will never Christians to start with but now suddenly being believers and Sunday not not looked in the world of music, but Father, we pray that you will bring this tribe this family this this great, this great anointing to give us a following porn for a blessing on every Christian DJ right now in the name of Jesus as they go. And as they are preparing to go back as we come out of lockdown. Father, we pray, Lord that you will take them you'll carry them into that lion's den father, and allies will be saved all around the party culture around the world that lives we transformed by the gospel of Jesus Christ, through the great way of music. Father, I thank you for Chris. I pray that you'll bless him and keep him strong. And law which is thank you for the power of music. Come Holy Spirit. Bless us, we pray, in Jesus name. Amen. Chris, we thank you so much for joining us here in our little studio, little podcasting studio. You've been listening to Chris minute. Very, very interesting. And we will be back with many more of this sort of stuff. And you've been listening to us here at AME Church in Swanley. Please find us on all the social media stuff regarding podcasting in the world of podcasting, Spotify, all that sort of stuff. buzzsprout and iTunes, and all of them, Google Play, share everything we do, and may God bless every one of you. Keep safe, but more than keeping safe. Stay under the blood of Jesus. God bless Amen.