Hello and welcome to our podcast here at Elim church in Swanley. You are joining myself. Reverend Ben Cooper and Leya as we record jolly little podcasts this afternoon. This evening was today Firstly, firstly just 35 It's a bit nippy out it's dark you know the rains been coming down but thank you to everyone you know, for listening and sharing our podcast you know, we try to keep these ones a little bit lighter. You know, we do some heavy stuff but we are just this is our for our Saturday afternoon. poke out a poke it out on a Saturday afternoon.
Leya:We missed a Saturday. We missed a Saturday. Did we miss we miss one Saturday, but just like Jesus, we came back.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We came back you know what I'm saying? But I guess back backing Yeah,
Leya:they're not fear. We are here.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Jesus is here. We try to live we try and keep it light because we do some quite in depth. stuff for the week, the preach in the teaching podcast regarding real men for Christ, the underground church, the persecuted church. We try to keep this one the Saturday ones nice and light. So we do appreciate you guys listening and sharing everything here at alien church. And we just hope you're well. In lockdown. We're in November. We are what? third weekend?
Leya:Yeah, something like that third week very close to payday. That's how I'm feeling.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's dark outside. So we just again, I must say thank you to everyone that listens to our podcast, this role. There is no editing suite, we do not edit anything is raw and real and straight through the podcast system and straight onto buzzsprout. And then ping is so humbling to face that we have a little chat in this room.
Leya:Yeah. And I mean, I'm I as you were saying, we keep this one light because I am a new believer. And if it was heavier, I'd be a bit scared. So sometimes I'll come in with questions and say, oh, what about this?
Reverend Ben Cooper:What about that?
Leya:And that's what we tend to do. We pick a fame and then we pull it apart that way.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, we just have a chat around that. See how we're going with that. So that's really, really important. We hope you're all well though everyone is well and good and happy and everything is going good in the name of Jesus. Amen. Amen. I men
Leya:this week. I want to talk about the sisters, the sisters in the Bible, because I feel like we hear a lot about the men, which is cool, because they're examples to us shows that the dudes are good. Oh, yeah, dudes are good. I am wearing a spit. I'm bit chilly stay but I'm not taking off. But I've got a new t shirt and it says Jesus is my homeboy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow, I know street cred.
Leya:But I love Jesus. Oh, wow. I love Jesus. But I want it to learn a little bit more about sisters. Because I know that God created everything. And he loves everything. So I feel like sometimes, for example, women were only allowed to be reverence in the Church of England in or bishops in the Church of England in the 1990s. Yes. And I feel like there is a a feeling that religion is quite sexist, but
Reverend Ben Cooper:God isn't sexist. Because when you think how did Jesus get into the world?
Leya:exactly that. So we're going to talk about free women tonight.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes,
Leya:we're going to talk about Eve. Eve. Everybody knows Eve, everybody All About Eve. That's what we're going to talk about not only a great film, but also the mother of a soul. Yes, right. The mother of a soul. And not its most objects, the mother of a so we're gonna talk about an eighth. And then I'd like to talk about someone I didn't know about, which is
Reverend Ben Cooper:Deborah, the judge. Oh, wow.
Leya:She's got, she's
Reverend Ben Cooper:got some boats. She's
Leya:got some power. She's like, she's like the Lady Gaga of the Bible. She's like,
Reverend Ben Cooper:no messing. Wow.
Leya:So when we talk about her, I hope you learn a little bit about somebody I didn't know about. And then we're going to talk about my sister Mary. Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary Mary, not only a great singer, but marry the mother of Jesus Christ our Savior. Well, yes. I love it that I get to say things like that in sentences in this podcast. It's just amazing. It's like you hear things like cliches and then you say them in this room and you think that's actually true. And I love it true. Love it. Yeah. So the thing that I think about Eve is, I think there's a generalization and when you think about if you think about her as not only just being like the first woman But you think about her as being made as part of Adam. And therefore she's his servant. But you also think about her as being the person that caused the downfall of humanity. He could look at it like that can Yeah, you could, you could, but what you could also look at it like, which is something that I've been looking into is that she was also made in God's image. So it doesn't matter whether she came out of Adam's Rib or not. Yeah, she was his Yeah. companion. pot. Yeah, joined together. And he was so pleased. Yeah. So in fact, he named her Eve.
Reverend Ben Cooper:When you look, when you look at that in the garden, they partnered together then they were, they were together. He was there. When she was tempted. He was there. He was there. So you when you look at it, I know you could spend years a month people spend so much time theologically, looking at all this sort of stuff. But at the end of the day, he was there, wherever you look, he was he was there.
Leya:Yeah. And they were together. They were what was considered just last night was she didn't know what sin was.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, because so
Leya:how did she know she was doing? The only thing she knew was she wanted the knowledge that God had.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And and the way you look at that, as well as God said, don't. Yeah, so they went against, but that's human. That's human. That's the that's the flesh. But then also you've got the serpent tempting. Yeah, exactly. And
Leya:he's a clever. He's a clever man. Fair. He's not a man. He was a clever surfer. Fallen Angel.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So when you think about that, it's more gosh, it. They shouldn't have done, but they did. But that's flesh all over, isn't it? We don't know. But we do. Yeah. I was told not to. We're told not to do things. Yeah. And we don't always listen, we do we do. Do we? Do we do things that he tells us? Yeah. Not to do. And then we repent. And then we're forgiven. And we're forgiven. If she didn't have that chance, didn't have that chance because of Christ. Yeah. And come to the cross. So. So you think well, I
Leya:always thought it was going to happen. That's the thing that I find confusing. Why?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, when you think about it, that's amazing. And that God created the heavens and the earth. Yeah, the fullness thereof. So when he created everything, he knew the fall, he knows what's going to happen. Because if you said that he didn't, he can't be a God can there because he's all knowing, all encompassing. You know, he's the beginning. He's the end. He is he is the is he just is he just is he ages? it? And
Leya:isn't it a bit like it with a child? If you say to a child and and God is their father. Don't do that. But don't eat that
Reverend Ben Cooper:cake. But don't you think is even more powerful to know? That he thought creation? I'll speak this into being blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And I know they're gonna fall and I know they're gonna do I'm gonna do
Leya:yeah, I'm still gonna love them.
Reverend Ben Cooper:still gonna show them love. I'm going to show the world this right and wrong. I'm going to create the world I'm going to the more you talk about it, you actually come off the subject of Eve more easily because because
Leya:that's the doubt that she had as well. Like, isn't that he showed?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, all everybody, you know, made through. Yeah. And you look at everyone all the way through, right.
Leya:I believe helped me to believe.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And I yeah, that is it. It fascinates me. And sometimes I get like a brain freeze. When I when I think about things like this. I think of the cross, I think of the cross and I think Wow, he knew it was gonna happen. He created the tree that they use to cut down. He created the seed. He created the seed. He he he done everything, but he still went, it still still happened. Still happened. Yeah. And Christ had all that power to do whatever he wanted to do, but he still went through
Leya:the thing that the thing that I'm coming back to with this though, is that he created the seat for the crucifix.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes. aev
Leya:is the seed also. Oh, yeah. They have human is doubt. Yeah, but also it within her. Yeah. would be planted the seed of all humanity, all humanity. You
Reverend Ben Cooper:think about that?
Leya:Yeah. all humanity, that and that is what he means life. That's our Hebrew. That's what Eve means.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Were you when you work this out, huh? You work this out. This is beyond. Man cannot put this together chin
Leya:like, that's not the name that God gave her. God gave her the name. I can't pronounce it. But it's E Z E R. Ezer.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So as a
Leya:as a so got colder as a which means help. She's what he thought that she would be. For Adam Yeah, but Adam appreciate it so much he called a life that's like saying to a husband saying to his wife, you're my life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You're my life. Oh, it's so powerful isn't it blows you off your rocker?
Leya:is is it's a beautiful thing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So you think all humanity sprang Yeah. sprang from that.
Leya:They were equal in the creation that
Reverend Ben Cooper:they made. Let's make man in our image. Yeah. Yeah, from the image of God. comes this human being this man. Then from the man comes his helpmate. Yeah. Bone from bone flesh.
Leya:All the things that we think are gonna be maternal attributes that women love, and how to be a mother and how to nurture she she didn't have an example of that
Reverend Ben Cooper:she had no role model role model whatsoever she was
Leya:just so Adam had nothing to show him how to be a father nothing apart from God, but apart from God apart
Reverend Ben Cooper:from God, but she had she had nothing but that shows you that is from day one, isn't it? So it's a natural God given
Leya:because she is in the image of God also so that's it is nurture inside so love.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's a when you look at that. Yes. How deep you actually scratch your head on that one. Yeah,
Leya:exactly. But
Reverend Ben Cooper:what he's got is an eighth. Yes, God so he can do anything. put any feeling any natural instinct into any end he can create anything, when I think that he created DNA here with the breath with the word, humanity when humanity came together I mean, this just came inside a sign and right to the depths of the bone. And then you've got DNA from the corporeal everything little tiny a man said, let's make our
Leya:nervous systems we've been altered. Sorry. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, that's it. Yeah. Everything from from day one as soon as Adam page up,
Leya:but what what is he did that with Adam? This is my this is my prototype. Yeah, I'm putting, you know, this is in the show room, which is the Garden of Eden. Yeah. Let's be mana, Plymouth and put, showing music and lights on him and be like,
Reverend Ben Cooper:this is the top of the range model.
Leya:Exactly. Yes. And then you create a wave, and was like, I'm so this is, you know, look at these beautiful people, you know, I mean, and then he allowed them to make their own choices.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Now you're in an area that will pop you out
Leya:there. He created the DNA of the ancestry, which is what the whole of humanity, the whole of the Bible from two people. Everything is made of.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Every human being has sprung from the garden.
Leya:Yeah. From Eve.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. From that part from right. At creation, the whole Yeah, world.
Leya:What I'd like to think of is that she wasn't that she wasn't a temptress that people think that she was because I think people are have heard that in the past. Eve was the one that tempted Adam into making this. She wasn't, it was the devil. It was the devil and she was just acting in human humanity as we all react, but like you may, we've been raised in a world where we can recognize what evil is. We can go. General. I mean, I read about that. I've heard about that. See, I know what that is. Because I know that Yeah, the games that people play, but she had never Yeah, had any experience of that ever before. Like she was clean slate.
Reverend Ben Cooper:She had what a wipe. Absolutely. Completely back Blackboard lately. Bang. Hmm. Pure down. Perfect.
Leya:Exactly. So how was she gonna know? Then what she was thinking was wrong. Yeah, that what was being told to her was wrong. I mean, I would be like, there's a snake talking to me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There's a twist on words. Because he said, Are you Are you sure? God said? Yeah. And then everyone has been put in that position? Yeah, it's a father of lies. So yeah, hang on a minute. I'm not quite sure what but yeah, you can easily put yourself in that position. You can easily go to know what what is the difference of me. hearing God's voice Yeah, I want to clear instruction don't do. And then I'll go Oh, I did. Yeah. Yeah, there's no no yeah, sin is sin. Yeah, obedience is obedience. obedience. This obedience is disobedience. Yeah. So I'm obedient. But then tomorrow. have done it right. Big stylee wrong. Yeah.
Leya:Because Oh, no chance to repent. I'm being passed out. Dear.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So if suddenly, I'm Like,
Leya:oh, I've got to wear clothes. Hang on a minute. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And their eyes are open and all that nice.
Leya:Yeah, I know, it blows my mind is that there's all of this pressure, all of this responsibility was put on two people and his two people because he was standing there with her course at a time.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, he wasn't.
Leya:You know, I mean by
Reverend Ben Cooper:we know, we don't Don't do it. Don't do it. Yeah,
Leya:yeah. But I think the pair of them was such innocent forms. When it was when they were tempted, they were, they were human beings. They were mortals, mere mortals, that just happens to create the entirety of the human race. And they will be in put between the God the Father, and the deceiver, who God also created, but has supernatural powers of deception.
Reverend Ben Cooper:In in that creating the pair of them was the beginning of free
Leya:will. Exactly freedom. Yeah. So should we see her a temptress?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, God put the weight on them. Yeah. He said, everything else is yours. But don't touch don't take off.
Leya:Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:If if he wanted, God could have made them with the power that he has not even tapping that tree.
Leya:Why did he make a tree? Yeah, he knew that they would be tempted by Look, when you look at it all. You think, wow. God,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you know, the power of free will? Yeah. You know that they was going to, because if you didn't know, you can't be a god. Because God knows all and there is nothing new under the sun truth. His ways are higher than our way and all that jazz. So what we have here is the power of free will. Yeah, that God is the God of all. But humanity has the power to say yes or no. And he will let you take a decision. Whether it's going to spiral you out, like a crazy person, or keep you on
Leya:the narrow path. So that when you do come back to him, it's so sweet.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, when you think about it is so mind blowing. Yeah, the garden.
Leya:This is the thing though, right? God is omnipresent. God is everything. God is Oh, God is a power. God is a being God is the word.
Reverend Ben Cooper:God is a sword. I am a great I am
Leya:Why did you need to have a tree of knowledge? Why?
Reverend Ben Cooper:God? Why didn't? I don't know. I cannot answer that.
Leya:I don't know. I think it's because he knew that it would be in Was it a
Reverend Ben Cooper:temporary? Well, it was it? Well, when I look at that, I think right. Okay. Yeah. So why did he give put that tree there? Yeah, he knows the weakness of humanity.
Leya:Yeah. Or, well, what destiny at that point, wasn't it? But he
Reverend Ben Cooper:know, he knew it was going to fail anyway, that's gonna happen. Yeah, he needs just his plan. And no matter how much you look at it, and work it through, and and go around there you go around it theologically. Yeah, you will always come back to the understanding that God knew the tree. He planted the tree he spoke the world into being he spoke the two into being he he brought them into being he brought them to life, he done absolutely everything. So for God's going to do that he knows that they at that second, he knows that that tempter is going to come along and tell them so you. And so he'd already created Jesus at the beginning of time, in order to God that older people have free will. God was just there. And then that's a subject that no one will ever be able to come to any understanding of where did they come from? You can't get to that one now. Because they've always been there Father, Son, Holy Spirit that has always been I am the great. Jesus was.
Leya:Well, Hang on.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Hang on. Oh,
Leya:Jesus was bolt to in order to save humanity.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. By says In the beginning was the word Exactly. And the Word was with God. So Christ was at the beginning. Yeah. We don't understand. They're finite. We don't
Leya:know. Why is a high man can't grasp what I'm saying is right. Okay. So Jesus came to save us from and give us redemption. Yeah. From the sins of the world. Yes. Which is which are created through free will?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes.
Leya:And the Free Will goes back to Genesis Exactly. So God Jesus was created before they'd even taken the apple.
Reverend Ben Cooper:God. Oh, Jesus is God God is Jesus
Leya:to sit back with my hands in my hand, my head in my
Reverend Ben Cooper:hand, you even say God was created. You can't. And God wasn't crazy. He was just God. He was God. So where did it come from? I ain't got a clue. It was Jeff, when you really think about it. I can't. When you try to get the human intellect and the human understanding, where did God come from? He has no end. And he has no beginning. No, that is too much for free Pam brain in this goal, to grasp that there has been forever. For more. For before ever more.
Leya:I can't. It's like when people try and imagine what the edge of the universe is. And they think is it just a white straight line? And the end of the darkness? And it's like that? No, no, no, no, I just I can't fathom it. I can't fathom it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We know that he's before time. Hmm. He created time. Yeah. He now you can't I know that without going into the full depths and all that trying to keep it light. Just very easy thing. without bringing a scripture it just think about that. I can't there's no, there's no beginning to him. And there's no end to him. It's like
Leya:a spiral. I don't know. Ah, it's not gonna make a strip. It's like, grasping a snake.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It just goes round. It's just there. Yeah, he's there. He's always there. He's never gonna go. Nothing can remove
Leya:anything? he said. But does he have a body? Well, okay. Oh, this is another.
Reverend Ben Cooper:This is another podcast, whoever was only talking about? Oh, no. But what happens is, the Spirit of God leads you into a conversation because it makes you think it's the
Leya:seed. This again, is the seed the word, seed. Yeah, what
Reverend Ben Cooper:a god is to say, Yeah,
Leya:what does that say? Bring life. Life. What is save life? What?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Not Life Life is powerful. Yeah, whatever way shape form you look at that life is power. Yeah. So when you try and get a little bit of an understanding on Eve, yeah, okay. She She knew what was right. And, yeah, there was a choice. There was a choice. We have a choice.
Leya:One of the things I'm reading just in my little research notes here is that this is something that I'd like to bring it to Deborah if I can. And I think this reflects the world that we're living in. And I think the story of Deborah reflects the world that we're living in, is that it says that Eve lost sight of all the pleasurable things God blessed her with all within the Garden of Eden. Yeah, and I feel like that's where we are as well. Yes, that we have lost sight loss all the pleasurable things that God has given us and he never mind what the church tells us we should be doing. And yeah, you know, I mean, nevermind what religion tells us we should be doing is about what God has provided for us. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, when you look at creation, yeah. I don't think we grasp the full beauty of what we come across if there wasn't a full but if there was one
Leya:was was going to be otherwise. There would not have been two angels standing at the edge of the wall. Flaming swords.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Why do you want angels? God in this place? Exactly.
Leya:If there wasn't, was there was a door? Was there a gate? Troy anyway? Anyway, anyway? Yes. And I feel like we have lost sight of our the pleasures the beauty of the world and society is really, it's fallen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, yeah. It's from that from that pic of the tree? Yeah, it's falling, spiraling down. Yeah. And then the only time that he's gonna be corrected and salted obviously was the cross. Yeah, changed it. Yeah. And then from the cross to the return of Christ. Yeah. So I mean, never not correct until Christ returns revelations by Oh, Where we going? We got a revelation
Leya:to Revelation we like the thing that I like about Deborah
Reverend Ben Cooper:is keep it light, keep it light era
Leya:that she also sorry. She also talks about how society is fallen and how it can be governed for the better. Yeah, so Deborah, well, what an angel. She wasn't an angel. But what a wonderful woman she was. Just she was an amazing woman. She was strong. What I like about this, right is Deborah was a judge, which actually means that she was a leader of the people of Israel Most
Reverend Ben Cooper:definitely. Yeah,
Leya:but nobody says she was the firstly woman leader in the Bible. It doesn't say,
Reverend Ben Cooper:oh, doesn't it doesn't separate.
Leya:Now. That's what I'm saying. There's no separation. She was just the
Reverend Ben Cooper:general judge. Only I only do
Leya:in the Bible. It doesn't say she's the only female judges
Reverend Ben Cooper:have a woman along. Yeah, it doesn't it just says Deborah the judge
Leya:Yes. ugly. It just says now Deborah, and inexpensive she is was judging Israel at the time. Yeah. And she would sit under a palm tree of Deborah. And she would give out judgment for the people of Israel. So she basically was somebody that sorted out disputes between families and such. Yeah. And she says, this is a quite a story. Do you know that? Obviously, you know the story, but if the people at home don't know the story, Oh, my goodness. So basically, there was a lot of war in going on. I can't explain the warring because it goes on for generations. But it was between the Israelites and the Canaanites.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, war,
Leya:fight, big style walk stylee and the Israelites were being battered Canaanite. They had iron chariots.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You don't know that? Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to think about what they were like. They were why was
Leya:they were metalworkers, and it's like metalworkers against people that had stones bows and arrows.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What chance is that? You
Leya:know what the Canaanites used to do to people? $1. Figure by I know, I know. It's a Saturday about God tell ya. They used to, they used to cut off the thumbs and big toes of the kings of the people they beat because then they couldn't use a bow and arrow.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So when you think about it, how clever they was back then. No. Oh, you know, they didn't have no internet. They couldn't go and Google it. Now. I couldn't go ask Alexa. No, no, go that sort of stuff now, but they know.
Leya:They know. They know. They they were like they were like, it would be like it would be like Swanley standard football club going up against Man United in a way. I
Reverend Ben Cooper:mean, you're gonna get
Leya:you're gonna get smashed. It would be like somebody's going with. I don't want to say a catapult because we all know how good a catapult can be. They will be like somebody having a little tiny brother no pebble thing up against somebody in a tank or a missile launcher. They are
Reverend Ben Cooper:nicly. And practically you got no charge whatsoever. But Sarah was a very influential woman in the poll. She was powerful. She was strong. She was
Leya:she? She said to her son, yeah, I'm gonna, I want you to go. And he was like a ruler at a time. I want you to go. And I want you to find the general of the other party. And God will take you God will go before you. He will make it and he will deliver victory into your hands and I will sort it all out.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And you will have victory if it ma'am. You want me to go there shot for a bit of bread. Yeah.
Leya:You know, what is it? You know what you said? He said Algar, few with me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Can you go with me, please? Am I doing it? Yeah, if you guys have anyone. Watch you the woman.
Leya:Oh, actually, I'm wrong. It wasn't a son. It wasn't somebody else's son. Ally. Yeah, yeah. But she said, I'm going to put victory into your hands. This is what I'm going to do. And he said, it says I will deliver him onto your hand. That's how much it is. And he said, if you go with me, then I will go, but if you won't go, I won't go. So yeah, so she said, Carly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:She wrote 10,000 troops zactly after the mount.
Leya:Yeah. And she led them was,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, a warrior.
Leya:She was she went out that let's say she spent all of her life sitting underneath a palm tree. Giving people judgment. Yeah. And then she said, because God said, do this. Yeah. She had such faith in the Word of God. Yeah. That she did it. So here we've got the direct opposite of lave because he was told something. Yeah. And she doubted it. Deborah was told something by the Lord. And she went, she done it. She did. She was Give me my boots. Give me my armor.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm off.
Leya:I'm going,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm going.
Leya:I'm going. So what happened was, she went up there to fight against, you know, this massive force. And her son went forward and started fighting the general the other one in their metal chariots. And because God had said he would go before them, he did. So he he said, a massive, great storm. Yeah. And it was massive, huge, thunderous rain that fell down from the skies and seized stop. They didn't have wd 40. In those days. You want this one out,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it rained It seized the chariot sees the
Leya:chariot. So you can cast your GTX I'm telling
Reverend Ben Cooper:ya, just like everybody was warriors. They was animals. They was not. Yeah, I had everything. I had the best of the best. Yeah. And suddenly, the rain fell.
Leya:Exactly. So the leader, the general, he fled on foot, because he was like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna need a can opener to get out of this chariot. So he's run as fast as he could. And he went to this. He went to this woman who was actually the wife of one of his, his friends. I can't find her name. I think it's jack hell or something.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Well, sure.
Leya:Anyway, so what she did, she was awesome. She hid him. He said, hide me hide me, put me underneath some blankets. So she put him underneath and blankets. And so he could because he was cold and tired. And she did. And then he said, I'm thirsty, give me water. So she gave him milk and cream, so that he would fall asleep. And this is where it gets a little bit dark. just gone. Because now this is a this is a warrior. She's a warrior. So she is in Corona. He has he's killed a lot of people he's done. He's killed a lot of people. So she waited until he fell asleep. And then she got a tent peg. And she put it to his temple while he was sleeping. Malik Manat Sure, right for the temple so hard that went into the earth underneath
Reverend Ben Cooper:the silence in this podcast. I was drawn back. Yeah, like so
Leya:you say that? In the Bible. There's all these stories of isn't this Joshua going to war? And what about Daniel go into war and Goliath? And then all of a sudden, there's Deborah. And there's john Hill to hell. What is her name? I've got to find it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's I can't remember the size. It was well, what fascinates me. What fascinates me here is that there was a plan to get this commander. Yeah. of this violent, crazy. Army. Any Firstly, yeah. Cook isn't correct. Yeah. And then suddenly, this warrior woman comes up and goes, Oh, gotcha. Yeah, exactly. But think about this a minute. God, no.
Leya:And she's in the Bible. And she's in the Bible. She's in the Bible. So it was always part of his plan. It was part of his plan. So man and women are equal in exactly, yeah, this is the thing I find fascinating. But also the thing afterwards, she talks she's at one. So this has happened once I tell the story. Once she's been through the war, yeah, once she's defeated the other people because of our faith in God. Yes. She then stands out and sings a song with her husband. They sing a song together. And in it, she tells the story of how God defeated the enemy in the rain. Yeah. But also she talks about all the different things that are wrong with society now. And she says this awesome thing. village life is ceased. It ceased in Israel until I Deborah arose, arose a mother in Israel.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow.
Leya:Well, how is that a life now? No. The fact that there is like no sense of village life, there's no sense of community. There's something that we're fighting at the moment and she talks about how leaders should be. Yeah, so she's not talking about men leaders. She's not talking about women leaders. She's talking about how politicians yet well, and the way that they should will, is with the love of God always follows. Rules. Okay. Yeah. She
Reverend Ben Cooper:was a rula. She was a prophet. Yeah, she was a woman with influence. Yeah. There is someone to study just on a Saturday afternoon. And we're just having a little light. Bit of jingle jingle. Yeah. But it's I Wow, this this woman is that she she was so powerful. She was so influential. She there was peace in the land for 40 years. Oh, he is after that is 531 it talks about that this? This woman, she but she was a warrior. That's what gets Yeah,
Leya:she was a warrior named jl JOJLJI. Yeah, Jael, so the pair of them together what examples of like, wore out, you know, I mean, and that's the part that's an element of God that does exist the wrath of God, the wrath of God, you know, I mean, unless what they were doing, because what happened was in their town in their village in their country, and Daniel kashia Joshua Joshua had died. Yes. And people had gone back to worshipping false gods. And she was the one that was saying because she was hearing from God right? Stop worshipping false gods. Yeah. That is why society is fallen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:judges were brought about to judge exactly yeah to judge.
Leya:That is why society is fallen because you are worshipping false gods. Oh, man, when I run when
Reverend Ben Cooper:you really think about today, when you look at the judges in the Old Testament, they judge and they made a decision they stood by the decision. If you look at the system today ain't got a clue. Anger, clover, it's not. It is lost. It is fluffy. It is light. Yeah, it this what when you look at this woman as she wrote she had troops 10,000 strong. Yeah. 10,000 strong and what she was the one that went in and put the tent peg. No, that was Jay Jay. Oh, sorry. She was the one that went in. But influenced that. Yeah, that possible and got in there and popped.
Leya:But no point. It's the thing I find fascinating. And I love it. At no point in the Bible does it say Oh, and she was a woman? Oh, she did this and she was away?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Does it references Deborah the Prophet tests.
Leya:Yeah, that's all it does. Yeah. But like I'm not what I'm saying is it doesn't say like, every time every time mogga factor is mentioned in history, its first female prime minister of England. That's her mention. I mean, I don't really like her. I'm not saying like, she's an example. In any way the same. She's probably the antithesis of Deborah and her faithfulness to the Word of God. But what I'm saying is that in society, we tend to point out if someone's a woman and they're in power, we always precede the fact that they're in power. Yeah. As Oh, and she's a woman. Yeah, no point in the Bible. Does it segregate? Does it point out that she's a woman in power it's just she's a person in power in exactly it's decided her actions in exactly the same way as it would describe Daniel. Do you know me know when
Reverend Ben Cooper:you when you really look at Deborah when you really look at her and talking about the power and the influence you know, in this place she is she is so such a role model
Leya:for feminine a
Reverend Ben Cooper:for women to go if I want to be be like someone or who could I look up to you without going you know, about lifted him up as idols. Go, go careful. Look at the character of a person. How godly Yeah, how. motherly how honest
Leya:Yeah, and she could judge she was in front of a judge. She went to him
Reverend Ben Cooper:so it Yeah,
Leya:so just saying, We've got so far God has shown us in just this. Yeah. So far in our podcast, we're not talking about the rest of the Bible. He's shown us that there are these different facets of femininity. So you've got somebody that is motherly? Yeah, full of life. That's Eve. Yeah, she is the mother. She's nurturing. She's, she's making a decision. And then, and then you've got Deborah, who is wise, she's got wisdom. Yeah, she's got, obviously she she can see things in an unbiased way because she's a judge. She's fair, but also she's fierce. She's got strength when she needs to. She's got strength and faithfulness. So her faith in God, I love I love I love how her songs and song ends. So she says, thus, let all your enemies perish. Oh, Lord, but let those who love Him be like the sun when it comes out in full strength. Yeah, I mean, that's what it's all about. It's not about I know we've sitting here in work sort of gun she's a fighter. She's an it should not but yeah, but that's not what it's about. No, it is about the fact that she loves God and she wants society to live by God's ways. Yeah, and in doing so. They will be like the sun. Hey, talking about the sun. Have you heard of Mary? Mary? Or Mary the mother of Jesus?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Mary Oh, I think I have Yeah, we're out of time. We got to be careful. I know what time is it is we've got a few minutes left.
Leya:Oh yeah, maybe next time let's do Mary next time fans fans let's we'll do let's do the two Mary's Mary's do the two Mary's next time because you can't rush Mary
Reverend Ben Cooper:can't match your mash you can't rush. Most married can't much marry
Leya:tell you why. Because Mary is
Reverend Ben Cooper:Mary is how do you describe she's just just as a little finisher, addley.
Leya:She was at the beginning of Jesus's life. And she was at renovations
Reverend Ben Cooper:revelations he created her love and emotions. He created her to be the vehicle to be used. Yeah, but she
Leya:was also the teacher of Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:She knows I mean, yeah, when you think, Mum Jesus don't do that if you do that, yeah, he would you don't we don't think about that. Yeah, we don't think about all these things yeah. When you think about Jesus you we think of him as not as the child what we only think of a child when he's when it's Christmas and it's a manger, but then from that point onwards, he is a baby is a baby and then he's a man is a baby as a man bang. Yeah, exactly. In between he bit
Leya:he has got to have had some awesome parent in I'm not joking and not just from the Father.
Reverend Ben Cooper:From Mom and Dad, Mom and Dad, bring it bring it real bring it real, you know, the church really makes always spiritual and blows it right back by from birth to the age of 14 of Christ. You know, if you look at that, if you look at that from you look at that young age. Yeah. Okay, cuz after 14 would have gone to the synagogue to Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. For all that. So when you think about it, say up to 10 them with, you know, read
Leya:your formative years. Yeah, those are the years. You learn about your morals.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You're not watching the telly anymore. Get out there instead.
Leya:down that plane, your son, your dad that chisel Yes, you are coffee thing God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. Yeah, no. Case finger off one if one would have just appeared. Because he's Jesus Shah. Now when you think about that he must have cut himself and hurt himself.
Leya:But we always see him as being a pure being that way. We always say a lucky.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Carpenter. Yeah, it must have he must have had an accident. Or slips. Yeah, everybody makes a mistake. He must. He
Leya:was a man. It was a boy. It was a child. He was a child of Mary. And that's what we're going to
Reverend Ben Cooper:talk about next. Whatever way you look at this. Jesus, he was the word he was in the beginning. And he came, and he's made any and the john says, and he made his dwelling among us. So it says that the man Christ Jesus, so to be called the man, Christ Jesus, you've got to be a man. So you got to be the boy, you got to be the baby. Yeah. You've got to go off all through the upbringing of family life.
Leya:Yeah. That you know what I mean? I'm 43 years old, right? And I still crave my mother's touch toes. I still, like if I'm poorly, if I'm ever in doubt. I'm craving my mother's word. And I've a mother. Yeah. He's got to have felt the same way. He was a man. Yeah. But that was wasn't a mom, wasn't it? What you said on the on the on the crucifix when he was dying? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I asked.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Who was it to take care of his mom? he asked. Army brains frozen me brains. Frozen. Cha cha, cha cha cha cha, john, john, john, john, john, john,
Leya:john. Sorry, this is because I know. So for me remembering these things is quite difficult for you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because the computer is just for you. He
Leya:didn't he? Didn't he? asked when he was dying? Take care of my mom. I think we need to take care of his mom. Yeah. In our next session. Yeah. Which will be coming out next Saturday. Next Saturday, we will look into it. We'll also look into Mary Magdalene because they were friends I believe. Because they both attended.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Well, we'll call it a day. They're more than that. Yeah, we'll call it Yeah, yeah, we call it a day. There. We go so far into that, and we'll correct that. Yeah, you know, I just have a computer phrase, I was trying to concentrate isn't what you say, this is? This is the real side of it. It's good. It's God. Okay.
Leya:He was like, we could basically be kicked, okay, that's why we can't, because we're gonna,
Reverend Ben Cooper:we're gonna have to go. But like, it's so good just to chat and just to be open and just talk without going into the rights and the wrongs. And you really think about it. You know, just chatting about what you think. How do you feel about that? Yeah. No? maybes,
Leya:I think it makes you go down into areas you might not have considered previously. Exactly. That's what conversation is all about is it makes you tell one another. Ah, and also it makes you Yeah, you go down a little rabbit hole you might not have thought of and when you do, yeah, you find out something you never know. You know. Think about something that you hadn't contemplated before. Like Jesus was at the beginning. Before before Eve and Adam.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Before Mary, when he came through the dressing room of Mary, each guy, it's like, and then yeah, it's like oh my gosh, layer. We have just completed about 45 minutes.
Leya:I loved it. I loved every minute of it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I love talking to you. It's it's nice just trying to keep it light as in not trying to go too deep, but just thinking about it. in a in a human way, rather than trying to be some super spiritual Christian that knows all the answers. It's got all the straplines ago actually a common ruse at the cross. We brains gone for normal. We just need to be normal that we don't know everything we remember everything. We might be who we are, but we will. But it's great just to be able to chat just to chew the fat to fat. Yeah, LA. Good night.
Leya:Good night,
Reverend Ben Cooper:remember. Don't be like that, Commander. Be careful you have cookies and cream. Oh, we thank you so much for joining with us at this hour. You know, it's Saturday afternoon. Have a great afternoon. We try and keep this light. You know, we don't know all the answers, but he does. You've been listening to Leah and myself Reverend Benjamin Lana COPPA, as a strange old name, man. And we give him all the praise and all the glory. God is working in our lives. It's a great time to be alive. May God bless you and strengthen you. And just remember this is raw. This is not been being put through any software machine to clean anything up. Raw, the squeaks the whistles, the bumps, the grinds everything you hear
Leya:in there, I know bumping and grinding. I'm just letting you know that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The twists and the chairs and all that sort of Oh yeah, you know what? Yeah, God is good, real raw podcasts. Thank you, Jesus. Stay safe. share everything we do here at Elim church. May God bless you. In the mighty name of Jesus Christ. Amen.