Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:01

Hello, and welcome to our podcast just wanted to hear Elim Church in Swanley. You're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and Sandra this morning, as we welcome Sandra into their little warm studio, as we're just recording our weekly podcast regarding the persecuted church, the suffering church. And we just want to say Good morning, and thank you to Sandra for taking time out, even though that we're in lockdown. And Sandra is a supply teacher and that the world that she works in is getting slightly tighter for work, isn't it? Sandra? Yes,

Sandra Robson: 0:31

yes, very true.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:32

Very, very true. But we welcome you this morning. And we're just going to backtrack, just for a moment, we're gonna just have a conversation around Pakistan again. Last week, we covered quite a bit in in quick session of time, and we just want to go back, you know, that's the beauty of these podcasts, we can go backwards and forwards and, and you know, it all flows, and it all runs that common thread. So Sandra, thank you so much for everything that you're doing. And let's, let's just have that quick recap and spend a bit of time maybe not so much a quick recap, but let's just spend a bit of time of just going back over that before we are going into Iran this morning. So thank you, Sandra, what what have you got for us this morning?

Sandra Robson: 1:14

Well, in Pakistan, we have ultra nationalism. So that's bit like in India, where we said about to be Indian is to be Hindu. Yeah, in Pakistan, it is Pakistani is to be Muslim. So that's the issue, the main issue now, and that causes religious intolerance to Christianity and other faiths. And, and leading to persecution. And particularly, they have the blasphemy law. So anything said against the Prophet Mohammed, either thought, or heard, or possibly, that can get them into trouble. And we saw the different ways that can be used against them. And for sorting out disputes, and all sorts of things that it shouldn't be used for at all and wasn't there for that purpose. So there's a lot of misuse of laws going on. And then we looked at forced marriage, yes, of teenage girls. And this is a big thing at the moment. And as we spoke, last week, we said about that case, of that teenage girl who had been married to a Muslim, into a Muslim family, and, and then she has to convert to Islam, and how the parents of that girl, were doing lots of things in the courts to get her back, that they have made an appeal. And it's gone, going right to the top, going to the the highest court to highest court in Pakistan, and we're praying for a good outcome with that, they will see that the girl The girl is under age. Yeah. And that it is a forced marriage. And we were saying that there were some laws that were still in the pipeline, to try and prevent this happening. And again, that these wouldn't be misused in the future, if they do come into being.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:24

Okay, so we just go back to what you said at the very beginning. And in this certain part of the world, Pakistan, that they're using the blasphemy law.

Sandra Robson: 3:36

Hmm.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:36

So yeah, I heard you say that thought so even you can push upon someone to say that, that you're thinking that you are using it against the culture against the nation. And it seems to be an easy way to put a Christian behind bars, it seems to be an easy way to target someone and cause serious problems for Christians. Yes, because it's all hearsay. That's right. So blame pitch rumor.

Sandra Robson: 4:08

It can be based on rumor that something is said and it's even caused a whole community to be

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:15

divided,

Sandra Robson: 4:17

vandalized to be you know, that for violence to care, and not just for that person, but because that person is thought to have said something. Yeah, that then the whole community comes under attack, the whole Christian community comes under attack.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:33

So it's a very easy way to target a believer. Yeah, a very, very easy way. And obviously, the penalty is very, very high. Yeah. And last week, I believe he was saying that there was someone awaiting trial just waiting for trial for six years. Yes. Just waiting for the trial to come to coat to justice. Yeah. So they're locked up behind bars for for a blasphemy law that that probably never even came around. It's just you can use it for Someone a very hateful, someone who's very angry, you can easily pin a blasphemy law onto someone very easily can do this. And, and this charge is, as I said, a very easy thing to press on to someone, especially as you are a Christian, a believer in Christ, because that's what the authorities want. That's what the state religion want. They want Christianity removed and taken out out on the one state religion put in place. So it's an easy way to target believers.

Sandra Robson: 5:30

Yes. And you know that it's the penalty is is so great that there's lots of them on death row. Got lots of lots on death row. Yeah, that they, you know, so it doesn't just mean they're waiting to hear, you know, if they've going to be in prison for a certain time, but they are put on to death row and they're waiting to hear, are they going to, you know, be put to death. But as yet, nobody that has not happened to anybody. Oh, there's that there is this continual threat

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:03

threat that you that that will happen.

Sandra Robson: 6:07

But what unfortunately happens if is, if they are acquitted? Yeah, they may be put to death by extremists who feel that that's what should have happened and 62 people, as we said, yeah, that's already happened.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:22

So in the last year, overtakes the law. So the law lets them out. The terrorists get out of them. And that that's the end of that, and purely through hearsay and words. So there's been no crime as in physical crime. There'd been no physicality, there's been no, no murder, there had been no stealing. There's been no robbing, there's nothing like that is just going on, on his site between a Christian and someone of another faith that Blasphemy Law and has put that person into prison for, for not stealing for not Robin for no money laundering, nothing like that whatsoever. Just just literally on what they may have said,

Sandra Robson: 7:05

Yeah. and text messages, as we said, and looking at they know, they've used Internet, and, you know, send text messages that have meant to been, you know, inflammatory.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:17

Yeah. So this law, this law is really

Sandra Robson: 7:20

needs to pray this gets repealed.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:24

One easy way to target Christianity. One easy way. Yeah. You said this. You said that? Yeah. And oh, gosh, that is that is.

Sandra Robson: 7:36

And that's what happened with a say a BB? Yeah, as we know.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:40

So we could be an ordinary family going about our life, just living and working. Smart, there's a bit of an upset somewhere along the line. And then someone from another faith puts the puts the word out there that this family this this family over here that have done absolutely nothing wrong, has been very blasphemous towards our God. And then that's when the authorities come in. Yeah. Oh, my goodness, it just seems so off off the rails. To me, it just seems so far beyond human understanding. But yet we get that. So how many how many have already been been? The lives have been taken 6263? Well, by actually,

Sandra Robson: 8:20

by those who feel that they should have been put into their own hands to death is 62.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:26

And I wonder what happened to those that took that person's life? Because you've taken that life? I don't know how that how the authorities see that. They just obviously get away with that. It's done under the darker the cover of night and other ways. So you've got there's so many things going on in this world of the persecuted church.

Sandra Robson: 8:46

Yeah. Because some of you know allowed under Sharia law. I don't understand. You know, how

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:52

they sound like

Sandra Robson: 8:54

them. Particularly read, read,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:58

interpret. Interpret the text. Yes. And then we go on to the forced marriage. So what sort of age are these children that are getting married off?

Sandra Robson: 9:08

1213 years old? 12 or 13? Yeah, but that's but they're said to be older. There's saying that they're 16. Okay, because at 16 they are allowed to man? Yeah. But yes. In the actual cases that we've looked at and that Yeah, different organizations augmentation for they've been about 1213.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:34

Oh, Lord, help us. So they are taken from their families.

Sandra Robson: 9:38

Yes.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:38

Are they they're forced, obviously, that they're taken away. They're just literally snatched away.

Sandra Robson: 9:44

Yes, they can

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:45

young young girls just stashed away from their families. That's the truth of the matter. Yes, snatched away and they're removed,

Sandra Robson: 9:52

like we say, but again, I need to maybe look into this a bit more yet. It seems that it's similar to what was going on in Egypt a little bit that some of the they're sort of groomed, yeah, they meet somebody and think they're wonderful, and they're encouraged, but others are abducted. They are.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:14

And grooming goes on. Yes, from the age of 12 upwards, well, we pray God that God will really move in this in this area. So these teenager girls, the teenage girls have been discriminated. They've been taken out their family, we've got the blasphemy law going on discrimination, we've got poor jobs for the believers working in the brick kilns, the brick workers, the search workers, so they're given really hard tasks a long day and a son really being treated very brutally. Oh, gosh,

Sandra Robson: 10:49

yes. So we did mention a bit about this discrimination. And as I said, I wasn't sure which way round it was. And on the looking into this, it is that if you're a Christian, you're then seem to be the lowest of the low in society. Yeah. So you're not eligible for a job not put up. Okay, other jobs that they particularly reserve the worst jobs for Christians, again, to discourage them from being a Christian, to show their distaste and how they are going against the Pakistani way of life. It's all connected. And so they're given the worst job, so they're very poor. And as we talked about the brick killing workers, so if they get sick, or if they have a problem in their family, or something goes wrong with, you know, something in their, in their house, or they can't afford to have it fixed. And, you know, they really don't have very much anyway, but generally it is due to sickness or injury, that they may then have to take out a loan to cover for the medication, or for you know, taking time off the injury. And also, it means that while there may be the parents have to do that, the children then have to come out of school, and to work as well, for the brickfilm will occur, and they have to pay off this loan. And this was

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:25

fun I live in Yeah,

Sandra Robson: 12:26

it's just, you know, becomes an impossible. And as we said, this cycle

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:32

of impossible. Yeah, yeah, no way I can move from there. No Way Out. very depressing. Yeah, you must feel very, very low, you must be exhausted, you must be tired. So if you just look and recap over these couple of, well, these these few things that we've been speaking about. So if you're a believer in Pakistan, there's every possibility that you're working in two places, either a brickcom worker or a sewerage worker. But then you've got the possibility of your Dota being snatched or taken away for marriage. Plus, on the weight of that in your village, or where you live or the town, you've got the possibility of having a blasphemy law being pressed against you. So when you look at what is against them, and then you've got discrimination, and then you've got all other things coming against them that being a Christian in Pakistan is hard. It Well, I can't, I can't actually find the words to think about it this morning. So you've got the worst of the worst jobs that you could possibly want in the beating sun long shifts, long, long hours, you've got a young family, you've not been very well then you've got to take a loan out, you've got to borrow the money, you've got to work as hard to pay that back. You've got the you've got the very good chance of having a blasphemy law pushed against you, you've got a very good chance of having one or two of your daughters may be snatched away. You've got your life being threatened. Come on, Lord. What is going on in the UK? When you when you just take that here? And you look how comfortable we are when you bring these two together as a man a working man in the UK comfortable you know, I know I know where we sit I fully understand everyone that's listening that we're in lockdown jobs are going but we don't have blasphemy laws. We don't have this issue where daughters could be snatched from marriage we don't have this discrimination we in the in the workplace, nothing nowhere near it. I know if you are a believer in a workplace it's very difficult to talk about being a Christian because the system one won't allow that where it crosses and all that and but when you look at the two different the UK and Pakistan, oh, Lord, come on. We got so much to be joyful here. Yeah, so much to be joyful. So and then we we, as we press into Iran here, you know, we've just been looking at back end up back Stan of last week, which is always up for conversation, but it seems to be the same pattern wherever you are in the world as a if you're in the suffering church, there is a natural pattern that follows this, this being a believer this this way that you are treated, then we go into Iran. We haven't spoken about Iran before. But what have we got going on? In Iran? Sandra?

Sandra Robson: 15:22

Well, it's the state and religion of one. So it's Islamic. So that's very again, tied together. That and that's it, you know, if if you're living in Iran, so all Persians are Muslim. So that's how they see things. Yeah. And Christianity is seen as a Western influence and a threat. And but in recent years, many people have come to Jesus, and more and more by the day.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:55

Just pose a moment there. So so what we're saying again, is, is another nation is making the state religion, Islamic. So we have a same pattern falling again, the same pattern falling against Christianity where the state is, is Islamic. So that then laws will apply the same as they did in Pakistan, and other places.

Sandra Robson: 16:26

Yeah, they do it in a slightly different way.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:29

But the basic foundational sort of belief system, and the way that these Christians will be treated as being true. Okay, so, right, so we're here we have in Iran, the state religion, is that is it? Islamic? Yeah,

Sandra Robson: 16:45

yeah. So I'll read this to you. And this is from Barnabas Fund praying for the persecuted church. So this is their information on it. Iran is a majority Shia Muslim country, and an Islamic Republic since 1979. It is led by an Islamic cleric Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, a supreme leader who appoints key judicial and military posts. Then there is a president, Hassan Rouhani. And he was reelected in 2017. And though it's described as moderate persecution, it has increased since he came to power in 2013. So since this president came to power, persecution is increased. There are at least 350,000 Muslim background Christians inside of Iran, and a huge number in the Iranian diaspora, which means outside Yeah. And so apparently, if you're a Syrian, or Armenian, there's there are people from those backgrounds living their Christian minorities, whose languages are not understood by the majority Muslim population, including most Muslim youth, they are permitted to worship in their own language. Although it seems that historical evidence of Iran's Christian past is being gradually destroyed through the destruction of Christian cemeteries. Now, this is a big, big thing, because this is where, you know, when I some years ago how all this started off with my interest. It was a Farsi speaker on death row, and it says here that all Farsi speaking churches have been closed with converts from Islam and their house churches, the main target of harassment and persecution. Wow. Okay. Yeah. And so Muslim backroom round Christians often charged with acting against national security. Now, this is a change from when I started looking at it, it was more in line with Pakistan looking at blasphemy, but now they are more focusing on going against the the government, okay, and more in line with China, I suppose, in that way of acting against national security, and given long prison sentences. It seems the government has strategy, then for getting new converts to leave the country voluntarily by arresting them and releasing them again soon afterwards, and sometimes even suggesting to them that they should leave. And that's a new thing to say. So that's what and Barnabas funds say. And then if we look at open doors, so they are saying yet the ethnic Persians who leave Islam can face the death penalty, or imprisonment for crimes against national security. And it's illegal to produce Christian literature or hold services in Farsi. So that's a particular language that's spoken. And much of the persecution of Christians comes from the Iranian government now. Wow. So that's, that's what they're facing.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:42

So it seems very old testament to me. You think of the king, and he had the sight traps, and he had the prefects, and when Daniel chapter six, a law that come into being to stop Christian worship. And that's what we see. And so there is there is a pattern forming again, as you as you study and research. And as I just listen, just as listeners really, just as the listeners are, and we listen to this, this factor that's coming out, there is a pattern that forms that the the government departments and certain leaders want to rule out Christianity and worshipping the God of Israel, and put their God in place. So they bring laws in and just like it was for Daniel, if he was to pray for the next 30 days, we will put you into the lion's den is very interesting that thousands of years ago, when Daniel was facing this that right now, and obviously the scripture says, There is nothing new under the sun that we are seeing a biblical pattern forming. But in different states as well, it has to follow that same pattern, it will follow that, you know, it might be Pakistan, it might be around it might be in these different areas of the world. But it seems to be there is a very fine thread that runs through, that's the same to remove Christianity, not to let anybody be a believer that anyone that doesn't come under our authority through the religious understanding of the state, we will, will put you to death or remove you or we stop your liberties or we'll give make you work in brickfields. We might work in sewers. And so there is a same sort of pattern or restriction. But you said that the church is growing?

Sandra Robson: 22:22

Oh, yes, it is.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:23

This is me. Sandra,

Sandra Robson: 22:25

is growing is growing, amazingly. And, and these converts are just wow. so inspiring. You know, I mean, yeah, it does. It does bring tears to me cuz as you know, I mean, one of the one of the guys and a pastor, and he, you know, my got involved in his campaign, because I was so shocked to me, it was the first time I'd really, really looked at what was going on. And I couldn't believe that this pastor was on death row, because he had said about, you know, teaching Sunday school children and that about using the Bible to you know, and that the people were okay with it, but because somebody disagreed with that, and, and he said that Christian children should be allowed that, and they shouldn't have to read the Quran, Quran tax, as well. And he sort of challenged that then it just escalated for him. You know, this, the authority

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:41

on the US? news following that row? I

Sandra Robson: 23:44

was going to really, yeah, I have got it here, we're

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:47

actually going to be a bit further back.

Sandra Robson: 23:50

It was a lot. It was longer than that. He was actually arrested in 2009 2009. He was arrested in 2009. And he was acquitted in 2012. And that was when I went to that CSW conference and saw him

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:08

that's the guy.

Sandra Robson: 24:10

So we'll talk about that later. Because there's an update on that. And it's very interesting about his case, and what human rights lawyers are saying now, and why things are happening the way they are now is very pivotal around happened to him, actually, which was I found quite interesting.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:35

So we have Christianity is growing. Yes. As we always say nothing can stop the Word of God for the pressures on the pushes of the enemy. Christianity seems to grow in a way that we would never think that make you really makes me smile but also to think of what brothers are going through in the suffering church, what they are going through the suffering and the pain. To be a believer of Jesus Christ is beyond My understanding as a man in the West, I can't I can't can't get my head on this to be honest with you. It's I hear it, I see it, but to actually to, to grasp it is beyond, I think to have a bit of a brain freeze on this because maybe it just seems so barbaric to me that this this just goes on where children are taken, married off, parents are working in brick farms. But through all this persecution, and through all this hate crime through all this imprisonment, God is moving.

Sandra Robson: 25:34

Yeah, the love of Jesus is just so strong, as we've said, I mean, I've read, I mean, it was last Christmas, actually, I was reading something about an Iranian lady who was just desperate. And at the end, her wits end up in a difficult family situation in Iran, and she just cried out and said, You know, I've heard about this, Jesus, perhaps you can help me. And, and it was about sort of, she was lonely, she, she wanted somebody to come into our house, that been a family dispute. And she said that when she, you know, said that prayer that she felt that God had come to visit her in her home, praise God, Allah, then she said she had the best present ever. And then we hear other people talking about dreams, that they've had visions of Jesus, and they've come to know Jesus. And a lot of young students are coming to know Jesus, as we know, in Iran, there are a lot of pressures in the economic sphere. You know, there's been sanctions haven't there, there's a lot of unrest underneath the surface. We don't really maybe hear about now we are very dissatisfied with their lives, that they're starting to ask questions about what's happening, what what the government are happening? And I think, you know, because Christians have been very faithful, and their witness, and others have started to say, what is it these Christians have? And a lot of these people have ended up in prison. And God has given them the opportunity, as you know, with the pastor, I followed that they started to speak to people in prison. Yes. And, you know, and they came to faith, as well. So, yeah, it just, you know, again,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:49

what we see on the outside God sees on the inside is amazing, you think in the darkest prison, and obviously, the prisons are nothing like what our prisons are here in the West, you can imagine how dark and dingy and and grimy they are, but God is moving in these dark places. God is using pastors he's using Christians is using women and men to to get his work. He's using them as an instrument in the darkest area. And they are just so joyful. Yes, they are just so joyful, and so on fire. They are, they are hungry, they're hungry. They see and they're bringing people to faith. They're moving very powerfully, very prophetically. So we can learn so much from brothers and sisters in the suffering church. So Iran is is on the radar at the moment. On the Christian radar, God is moving very powerfully. And we pray for all those in Iran. We pray for the leaders, we pray for the leaders in Pakistan, we, we pray, we just keep praying for the leaders, we pray for those that have been persecuted. They've been imprisoned or wrongly, that are coming up against trials and tests of their faith, you know, families that are losing children. The Blasphemy Law we're just praying over that Father that this morning though, there'll be a change. So we need to Jesus we need you. So as is a lot of information sounder coming out and coming over, but there is a, I can't repeat myself, but there is a pattern that seems to float, a general pattern that is coming out of the suffering church that has always been there, and it will always it always will be there. So what else have we got? What have we got? You're gonna share with us for the rest of this time we have here.

Sandra Robson: 29:35

Okay, so what we've said what sort of things are happening? What is it like, you know, to live as a Christian there. So Christians who convert from Islam have to keep their faith completely hidden. Secret house churches are monitored and frequently raided. Dozens of Christians are imprisoned in important conditions. But we briefly mentioned, believers from Armenian and Assyrian churches can practice their faith openly, though they still face discrimination of forbidden from sharing the gospel with Muslims. But now recently, even those churches have been closed. But even in that God is at work. And it reminds us to pray for all of the leaders of countries and people in authority. Yes, because it says, one of the Iranian President, senior legal advisors questioned the decision by the authorities to forcibly remove across from the top of 100 year old Syrian church, and to Bruce. Yeah, Bruce, in May 2019. He pointed out that the constitution officially recognizes Christianity, as well as Islam, Judaism, and xo astronism. And states that their religious minorities are free to perform religious ceremonies. So in July 2019, the authorities restored the cross, although the key church keys were not returned immediately,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:15

but the cross was restored. Yes. So it's in their constitution. Mm hmm. That they are free to to worship the God that they choose. In Iran.

Sandra Robson: 31:26

Yeah. So a senior legal advisor. So thank God for by God,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:31

willing to stand

Sandra Robson: 31:32

willing to stand up and look at the law objectively. Yeah. And so that was I thought, was very powerful, very

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:40

encouraging. Interesting, very encouraging.

Sandra Robson: 31:43

But they are trying to close up any loopholes now. Yeah. And there has been a crackdown since 2020. And they have been very badly hit by COVID, as well. And so they're reinforcing the penal code is the next thing they want to do article 55, I mean, Article 500, rather. So maybe we might look at that next time. Sure. Scan T, that's quite a bit of an index to look at. So perhaps we will,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:21

we can focus on that next time

Sandra Robson: 32:23

look on that. And perhaps we'll just look a bit at this latest crackdown first, and then we can look at the penal code and its effects and most on another podcast

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:42

Yeah, that's the beauty of what we're doing it just conversation just just grows it just moves it migrates, it moves on so so right Sandra, what else we got there? So

Sandra Robson: 32:51

so you and Christians, recently, they've been rounded up a lot of Christians, even from weddings, they've rounded up Christians? That's how they've been able to find out, you know, where they are. They've been looking for opportunities, sure to take them.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:09

Yes, opportunities to remove them.

Sandra Robson: 33:12

And there's a lot of incidents that hear of them, you know, being put it into custody. For men received custodial sentences for belonging to a group hostile to the regime. And the sentenced to a year in prison plus two years in internal exile, that's a new thing as well. They go to prison, and then they put them into internal exile.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:39

Wow.

Sandra Robson: 33:40

And so they were given one year sentence, and then 91 days sentences, and then they banned them from working in the public sector as well. Christians in Iran are concerned that the legislation recently approved by Parliament could mean more arrests and harsher sentences for just minorities. And, and so they were asking for prayers. Please pray that God will give steadfast faith to those recently arrested and convicted in around some of them have only recently come to Christ. Pray that they will hold unswervingly to hope, knowing that God is faithful, labor's 1023 please pray that the nine who remain in custody will be released. Pray for a change of heart among the Iranian officials that they will start to see Christians as good citizens and not as opponents.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:42

Wow, as opponents has a big word.

Sandra Robson: 34:45

Yeah, pray that the legislation, which I'll speak about next time, recently passed by parliament will not be implemented. And because it's going to show them as being set a sect and it'd be much easier To shut down things, and yes,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:02

sure, it'd be easier to control with that can get that passed over. So there's a lot of prayer needed. And we always say that very, very powerful. The Scripture says a prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. So we come back to the same old question that we have, how can we help the sisters and brothers in the suffering churches simply by praying, praying and getting hands, getting your hands on rather, on fact, on the knowledge and the understanding of what we have information from Barnabas, open doors, CSW, all these these places that are supporting and bring in all this data together. So target in prayer is really important. Maybe take a nation, or a town or a village, or some pastor or some family that has been put in your pathway and just pray for them, just pray over them and just pray into the nation that God will guide them and strengthen them. You know, even though they walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I'll never be able to understand and comprehend what they go through. Like it, just the comfort, even sitting in this room that we are today with all, all the trappings of materialism around us, we just can't really grasp it, it's, it's so important that this message gets out. And we pray that churches share this and, and we just look at this, and we pray into this. And we say, Father, just touch our sisters and brothers across this world of the suffering church.

Sandra Robson: 36:26

Yeah, so we do need to pray for for those in prison, there's a lot in prison. And a lot of them have got the COVID virus, and I've been praying for them as well, that won't spread, and that they would get the medical care they need. Because you know, it's always gonna be there. And so pray for strength and comfort and protection. And also the opportunity to witness even in that place. And we know a lot of witnessing is going on. And also to pray for the families who are missing their loved ones who are, you know, obviously concerned for them, and really want them want them back and the things again, of finance and support, and encouragement, all these things are so much needed. So we can pray for for that. And if you all get interested in any of these organizations to like CSW, or release International, they particularly give out things to support prisoners and send cards and letters. And that is Yeah, so so sometimes they don't actually get them at the time, but they do get them afterwards. And it's such an important part of their

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:53

journey,

Sandra Robson: 37:54

encouraging them from the trauma. Yeah, and helping them and realizing that they weren't on their own, because a lot of them say I thought I was on my own, nobody cared, I was just put into prison. And as we said, they are quite young, in their faith very, and they are taken, you know, very, the, the beginning of being a common, you know, convert. So they you know, that they really do need that encouragement from the body of Christ. You know, and I know that these things have helped. And particularly, there was a lady who was put in prison for some time, and she suffered greatly. And we sent cards to her from this from this church. And yeah, open doors showed all the cards that she was sent after she was released. And she said that really

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:52

helps, helped her

Sandra Robson: 38:53

helped her healing. Yeah, and helped her to recover from the trauma of being imprisoned to know the love of her Christian family around the world that

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:04

she will never meet in the physical labor, but spiritually connected through the pen. Yeah, for a cut. So very briefly, Sandra, how does someone get to write these cards? What is the process if someone that's one of our listeners that's listening, thinking, you know what? I can do that? I've got time I can. So what is the process? What What was the process that you went through here in alien church in Swanee? When you're encouraging the children and you've done that big campaign? Is it something that comes up in the magazines or is there a place that you can go to online for Barnabas for open doors where there is a regular connection for writing to certain people is there

Sandra Robson: 39:46

and it's through sometimes through the magazine? Yeah, yeah, there will be something often online there where it says support. Okay, and Oh, you know, how can you get involved, if you click on there, it'll send you through to sending cards or letters. And there have been some blocks recently due to security issues. But if you look on there, they particularly release International, as I said, if you look on their prisoners face, yeah, and go through that, yeah, they also have a piece about how you can write to prisoners, and they will, if you contact them, then they will send you back information. And you can get involved with that. Also, CSW used to give out a booklet, but now again, it's all online. And if you look into supporting how to support, again, it will come up and there'll be different places. So it's not always around, but it happened to be at that particular time they were focusing on around that. That's the way to do it. But

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:06

that's a great way to connect, isn't it and to let your sisters or your brothers know,

Sandra Robson: 41:11

yeah, a car card, it's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:13

got so much power. Yeah, like being called because of us today, just by, because that's what we're starting to do here just connect with people via the traditional way, because of obviously, the electronic, nobody's got electronic devices. But just a beautiful card. Imagine being in prison coming out of prison. And you've had a card from some family in the UK or wherever the West, just to just work just with something, what what is it about a card and a personal touch, there is something that is so personal,

Sandra Robson: 41:46

somebody has taken the time to sit down, and to think of you to pray and ask the Lord for a scripture, and to take the time to write and say, I am thinking of you and to physically send something, believing that it will get to the recipient, amen. And it's just that connection with that person. Yeah, that you can't really do with an email message. This is so much you can feel it, you can touch it. And you can think, Wow, somebody wrote, just send me because, as you say,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:27

and to take the time out, you know, it's so easy in the world of technology to do a generic email, press a couple of buttons, and it's reach hundreds of people with, don't get me wrong, but when I say we've no thought but we've no, no heartfelt it because it's just a computer message. It's just generic, it's a pattern. It's easy to do. But when we're talking about cards, then our humanity really kicks in, you know, because it has had that personal touch.

Sandra Robson: 42:56

Yeah, and not the Scripture. I mean, the scriptures are so important to them when they read those scriptures. And some of these organizations will actually translate it into their language, their language, sometimes you will send a card, you can't send it directly to the person. But you can then send it to open doors. Yes. And they will then send it on again, because of these security issues. And sometimes they have translated it I know CSW have done this because they're doing this and you know, sending love sending they wanted to send 1000 love letters. And they they translated into all the different languages to be sent to those particular people. And they're still doing that. And the feedback when Well, yeah, I've been you know, released from prison.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:54

Yeah, so it's really important everybody that's listening that there's there's another great way of connecting with the suffering church. Also, we know we've got prayer, but then we can really hone in by doing a personal card, which is a very powerful

Sandra Robson: 44:07

thing today and thinking of Christmas coming up. Now's the time to do it. Because it takes so long for them to get there.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:14

Of course so Yep. Okay, Sandra without we've had a good morning. Good discussion. Just an overview, as we always do, there's always so much to speak. If you got anything you want to on a close on these moments before we say goodbye. Um,

Sandra Robson: 44:31

well just thank the Lord for what's going on that his church is growing in Iran. And we have this opportunity to partner with them to encourage them to lift them up in prayer, particularly thinking of, you know, standing with them in that place if we were in that prison, you know, how, what we would want and so it's really important to stand with them at this time. There's a lot of change a lot of pressure going on, but we just thank you that they are just shining that light for Jesus again. And that they have that desire and that passion for Jesus. And we just thank God for what he's doing that more and more are coming to know Jesus. And yet so be encouraged, be encouraged with your prayers, be encouraged to write, be encouraged that you are making a difference. And thank you, Lord, that we have this opportunity to partner with you in seeing the church in Iran grow to be what you want it to be, Your kingdom come and Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Amen.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:40

Amen. Sandra, we thank you We thank God for what he's doing. In the suffering church the way God is moving the scriptures moving the Bibles are getting in there even though the stuff that we're hearing. very brutal God is moving. Sandra, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Everybody. Listen, this is just so raw. This is so real. We don't edit anything that we put out at all. This is just real life. There is no software we push anything through. This is as we are here. Just real Elan church in Swanee. So we thank you this morning for joining us on our podcast on the suffering church, the persecuted church, Sandra May God bless you and strengthen you and your ministry and by the hand of the Lord always be upon you. Thank you very much. God bless. In Jesus name. Amen.