Hello, and welcome to our podcast here at Elim Church in Swanley. You're joining myself, Reverend Benjamin Leonard Cooper with our good friend, Reverend Brian Greene away from Maoz ministry. And we are looking at a really interesting subject today that is really striking a real deep spiritual chord with me. And the word is Sabbath. Hello, Brian, how are you?
Brian Greenaway:Hello. Good to be Ben.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's fantastic to have you with us. And we, we are so blessed to have you. We thank God for the ministry that you're involved in and the great work they do and the work as a leader in the eo g church over in Britain, is that correct? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we're going good. Good lockdown is upon us. It is we are getting through this approach in where are we we're caught to 12 on Thursday, just so the listeners know. And we've got about four weeks to Christmas. So it'd be interesting to see what happens. And we are looking at a very interesting word Sabbath rest. Now, I'm gonna lay this straight out on the table. Obviously, a lot of people know where I work in the hospice. And when all that COVID broke out and all that I the biggest problem, Brian that I have is I do not rest. Honestly, my face will probably tell 1000 stories, I do not rest. And it it is completely against the Word of God. I think that if I rest, God ain't gonna manage. You understand what I mean? And to be honest, I have become addicted. I would say I become addicted to work in seven days a week. And I have done this for months, literally months, Maya lost lost the true understanding of the word Sabbath of rest. It is like, obviously, I've been brought up in a family that was hard work from from school, you know, my background and all that sort of stuff. But that's not an excuse. And I need to be very careful, because yesterday, another Vicar friend of mine, gave me a call and said, Ben, I've got a great book for you. Yeah, what is it? Andrew, what is it? What is it? It's about the Sabbath. You've got to read it. And the conversation we've had before and what you've gone through and what you've been trialing and looking at. So this just to the listener now I've been brought back quite a man, but he's gonna got some great stuff he's going to share. So this is speaking to me, this is seriously, this is a god move right now in my life, because I am so so guilty. I am so guilty of not resting. You know, I think Oh, God, how you gonna make it today, Lord, if I don't, if I don't turn the phone off, if I don't do this, and I don't do this. So we welcome Brian. And we thank Brian phase is continue following God and in the great ministry that he's in and his beautiful family. And so Brian, we welcome you here to the podcast and table. And let's go, I'm ready. I've got my seatbelt on, and God is gonna speak to me.
Brian Greenaway:You know, I heard a couple couple months ago, man and I pinched it as all best quotes a pinch,
Reverend Ben Cooper:pinch, they're all pin
Brian Greenaway:and it was that along the lines of this that what can you do for yourself that your future self will thank you for I've got it wrong. So what can you do today that your future self will thank you for? Okay. And I think that's very good in all areas of our lives. And we know that there's one of them, you know, if you go to look at all the records and all the hospitals in the UK, yeah, you will see that stress is a big thing. And self help books on Amazon. If you type in self help on Amazon, you'll get like we're giving you 30,000 replies, you want more? Yes, it is a massive industry, self help, you know, to do health and stress and overwork. And people can't cope with life and are looking for a better pattern of living. Only people
Reverend Ben Cooper:that are looking for that love life coaching. Yeah, motivational books, been saying how to better yourself, right? You have to do that. But the rest is the key.
Brian Greenaway:And God has given us a pattern. Right back at the beginning of time. He started off a pattern that is still there. Something is not to restrict us. It's not a religious rule. The Sabbath is something that God has given it is a privilege. We write back in Genesis, we read it Genesis two. Yeah, it says here. By the seventh day God had finished the work he'd been doing. So on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God bless the seventh day and made it holy because on it, he rested from all the work of creating that he had done that did God need arrest? Does God need arrest? No, he doesn't. He doesn't. But he did. He took a day off. If you like he worked six days, yeah, because he could have made the world in instantly. But six days, and then the seventh day he rested. So we set a pattern right at the beginning of creation for six days of work, because work is good thing. Yes, followed by a day of rest. And he made it holy blessed it and made it holy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I feel sorry, I feel sad. I feel so bad. I feel so bad because I, we talked about stress, he talked about what we sit in at this moment. And the I think what what keeps me driving all the time is that I love people I love doing I always say that people are not in a job. This is my calling, this is my life. But I'm not being responsible to me. I do need I do need these, the this day off, you must have this Sabbath. But then I've had that and done that before. And I get guilty so that it might build up in my makeup within me mine. I struggle to take time off because it makes me not look at me. But I think I could be doing, I should be doing. And so I've got myself on Lacan around about, just keep going to keep keep going to keep going, keep going and keep going. But I've got places where I think to myself, did I want to check myself or just rein it in a little bit? I've got too many plates spinning? Yes. I've got too many plates, that they that one needs to spin over there. And I can't get to that one. So yeah, it's so this is very relevant. For me. This is really speaking to my heart. And this is this is so good to hear. But Brian is so right. There are so many books out there about self help motivational staff, the feelgood factor and all that. But it's not spiritual help, is it? No, no, no, that's, that's the key. But so I've got this upside down thinking that if I rest I it. It's not helping me, but it is helping me because it's a commandment of God said do this. Yeah. So it's holy. So as I rest I will get the spiritual recharges that I need.
Brian Greenaway:Yeah, it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:it. Could you could anyone understand this? If I say this like this? The more I do, I almost get energized by what I do. Right. Okay. So that is a that is a strange i get i don't know how to put it might look tired sometimes. But I love doing what? Any good. So I've got I've got issues that I need to deal with, because they're
Brian Greenaway:all limited. Aren't we physically, physically, mentally, emotionally? spiritually, we all have limitations in those areas. And, and so many ministers as well. But yes, yeah, have stressed that type of stress. Oh, well, they said that turnout has hit a wall, isn't it? They hit a wall. Yeah. And they suddenly find that they can't function anymore. And you know, you can I was reading Robert Morris. Yeah, the gateway church in his wrote a book, take the day off, take the excellent resource. That's very good. And there are many books on that subject, because they reach that day where they were, they couldn't function in basic things do basic things, because suddenly, mentally, they hit this wall, and they love doing their job. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's good to learn the job. But actually, there's a principle here that God has given us and he calls it holy. So when we think of holiness, how sometimes people think holiness is something sort of otherworldly. And it's strange, sort of strange concept, but holy is something good to God means set apart doesn't it really means set apart. So God said, are set this day apart. And, and it is not to be legalistic. It's not a rules, and many have made it we can look at that how people have been legalistic and we see that in the New Testament, the Pharisees were very legalistic, they they thought the Sabbath were to control and say, you have to do this, you have to do that. So we you'll find in, in Judaism, in amongst Jewish people, of course, there are many times that in Israel, the Sabbath it is there's the good and the bad aspect of the good is that as you're coming to sundown, because it's it's a lunar calendar. So as it comes to sundown on Friday, Friday, everybody's rushing around, let's get everything ready for the Sabbath. Before the sun falls, work is stopping work, he's willing to stop, stop, stop and everything sharp on the Sabbath. I mean, some things, obviously hospitals are open and these are
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah,
Brian Greenaway:but things are closed. And so that's really nice because the country is beginning to move into the Sabbath. One of the tragic things is, is that some people are married legally stick. So my, my dad remembers, you know, a Jewish community in South London. He remembers that certain people were paid young lads mainly to come and turn lights on and to light fires really because shut striking a match is is considered breaking Sabbath, so they had to pay Gentiles to come in and do these little jobs for them. And in hotels on the Sabbath is in seventh lift. So you might be in a hotel with 2530 floors, and there'll be a Sabbath lift. Now what that does, it stops every floor, you don't have to press any buttons. So you're not causing us electrical Spark. Not creative, is balmy. So you think it's so you're going down to breakfast in the morning on a Saturday morning, and you get in a lift, you think, why is it stopping every floor, we can leave and get in the other lift the non separate lift? Because that's for those who are strict. orthodox, they won't press the left button, so they use the lift that goes to every floor. So that is that is that is legalistic that is so that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:the so that's his battery, what is extreme to what is extreme is it is controlling. So I would say I'm an extremist.
Brian Greenaway:We can be extreme in either ways. Yes. As I said, you know, the Sabbath was made for men, not men who is there to serve us? Yes, I said to give us that day of rest. It's a day of setting apart so they have family. It's a day of not doing the ordinary doing things that recharge you and generate energy and just relax.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's hard to do that word relaxed, frightening to me. It's frightens me.
Brian Greenaway:We think the mental we want to stop physically, but mentally, and that's the thing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And you spoke a moment ago about hitting a wall. I have hit them walls. I have hit them walls, not many people will know then I have hit walls like this on a regular occurrence. I've hit that wall, and just had complete mental shutdown locked down. I've been at a desk or I've been doing anything. But I've just said, God, I know I need to rest. But please, please just get me over this wall. And I when I say I am not this is not a I'm referring to to me not as in I Oh, great. Am I and all that I'm referring to, I have this issue. This is my issue of not arresting this, this is a big thing. This is this is this is this is something that is that he's challenging me and you've mentioned word relax, and but I find the energy I find that when I preach and when I'm studying when I'm doing what I'm doing and working in the hospice and doing all this stuff, I find that it energizes me. Mm hmm. But also I know that I need to complete the shutdown. So this is my battle. And over the last few weeks, I've had too many people come in front of me now I've got my good friend Brian sitting in front of me with this as well. So this is my this is my challenge. But this is really interesting. But so we have so if you take someone that you're talking about getting in a lift, yeah, in a hotel, where they don't do anything there's any energetic no work nothing whatsoever. Mm hmm. That to me is the complete opposite to what that frightens me
Brian Greenaway:but then you know, that is not what the Sabbath is because that is not giving you the idea is rest isn't it? So if you're trying to find a load of rules, or I mustn't walk more than 1000 steps, I mustn't light a fire I must start my car because the ignition you know things like that, then that has become a rule and actually that's not good. That's
Reverend Ben Cooper:not that's
Brian Greenaway:not that's not the definition of what God said no was a rest. The rest is is a day journey. It's good to have a day doesn't have to be a Sunday or a Saturday to take a day when you don't hear the attorneys have do no customary work and funny in the Old Testament, you know, but if you look at the know that keeping the Sabbath day keeping it holy, it is about a day when you you know you rest and you spend time with family. You just rest from your normal work that you do and it should be something that serves you and when you get it the wrong way around. It's like when Jesus healed people on the Sabbath, okay. He did it on purpose challenge challenges No, right and he healed a guy with a with a damn think was a nice Oh, they were wrong to kill him because of it. Because he healed somebody because he did good. And Jesus was he got angry about that, you know, Jesus got angry sometimes. He said, You guys, you know, I've come in healed this guy and you're more interested in whether I've broken some rules that you've made up. It's not a god. I said, and you know, you need to do good is a good thing, isn't it? It's a wonderful release of that man who was healed and there's the Pharisees and what they're saying he shouldn't be here. So that's the letter of the law isn't that's not what the Sabbath is.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So am I right thinking that we can make any day at the seven days a a Sabbath? Hmm,
Brian Greenaway:yeah. Yeah, so like, for example, your instrument Yeah, my Sundays is not a Sabbath machine. The COVID has been the Sabbath. Yeah, but obviously we're on a national Sabbath now but yeah, it's um, but but so a lot of them take another day off. So I had a day last week and I'm not saying I do this every week. I said, What I've got here is I've got to I had appointments as you went in and have an asset. No, it's got to be, I've got to practice what I preach. I've yet to do this. So last Thursday, it was, I just took a day off, and my wife and I went out for a walk in the hills and hairy hills. And we didn't do much else. And then a couple weeks before that, it was a Sunday, and I'd recorded our ministry. So I said, what I'm doing nothing today, and not in a lazy way. Be a selfish way. No, because, you know, obviously, if you're married, if you've got family, you can't just sell stuff. You're not clear of it. I got a goal for the day. Not to play golf for Sunday. But you've got to, you know, obviously, balance you know, your family, you've got to care for your family. Of course you haven't you mustn't be selfish, but you've got to have these songs. You say, Well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna look at my phone. What have I said now?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, yeah,
Brian Greenaway:I'm gonna turn that phone off for 24 hours.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I actually cannot. I cannot. But if you're not,
Brian Greenaway:if you're on call, yeah, maybe knowing what I mean is my brain can
Reverend Ben Cooper:say, yeah, that's the thing in it. That's, that's the frightening thing.
Brian Greenaway:I mean, you know, your phones. Some phones have this thing they can tell you. Those are device care or something is called. And it tells you how often you pick it up, and how often how many hours you spent on Facebook, or Pinterest, and it tells you all of those things. Yes. And if you were to write it down every day, and look at it after a week, look at after a month and see how many times you've touched your phones and activated your phone and peep most people most people would be really surprised. I know, emails or
Reverend Ben Cooper:texts, you know, joins us a quick check on this a quick check on that. It's, it's like it's glued to me. Honestly, it's glued. To me. It's a pocket. It's in my hand. It's it. I'm going to be broke, it moves me. The rules made it is overtaken my life.
Brian Greenaway:So there's got been in a Sabbath arrest. Yeah. Deadly. Holy Sabbath dangerous. You want to have gotta have an intention? intentionality,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yes. Planning,
Brian Greenaway:you've got to have a Sabbath. You've got to plan to have a rest you've got to say to have right, you know, like you would plan, say, your Sunday service for our pastor? Do you plan to do it? Well, so people going to work? Yeah. But you'd make a lot of people listening or you know, responsibilities, you plan to do things, don't you? So not gonna prepare to do this. So I can have a good week, I can do this work, I can do this stuff planted? Where are you doing? So you have to plan a separate, you have to say, right, this is my diary. And I'm gonna have this day off. And it means that I'm gonna, what do I need to do? What is the Sabbath for me? Now, of course, as it says, the Sabbath? man's not made for Sabbath Sabbath made for men. So what's going to be my day of rest? What do I, you know, with my wife, in my context, what's going to be a day off both of us? What is going to do with it? I rest, yeah, he's gonna do what I need to do to make sure that I do rest. And that takes planning, let's say, sitting down, taking a piece of paper and saying that next Wednesday, I'm gonna get up and do this. What's it gonna be for me? And it has to be but is his time. So I love a day, and it does not happen where I don't know what the time is. Where I don't need to know what the time is. Does that exist? Could that be possible? I just love that sort of day. But you know, you're right, then the guilt, isn't it? The kill? If I just did this, if I just did that, if I just checked that, then it would help my next day. So when I say planning and intentionality, you have to be strong. You have to Yeah. Yeah, I mean, sometimes tough. It's so busy. We don't always do it. I mean, cc sent me sitting here saying, oh, take a day off. And you're thinking your people are listening to this and saying, You don't know my situation? I say, No, I don't. Yeah, God does. But God does. God wants you to have a rest. That's great. We'll help you. And you know what, there's this funny illustrations out I think I've seen years ago where that guy brings a bucket of water into a room and he says, let's see, put your fist in the bucket and take it out again. And you know, with men, there's a macho thing. I'm indispensable and he's like you said at the beginning, what is God gonna do? If I take a day off? What is gonna he's gonna do? And because it's a command, because God has made it for us, it's like, giving, you know, it's hard to give sacrificially? Yes, whether or not we give, but you know, when you give and quit. I've never known a Christian say, I started giving. I was really in trouble financially. Unless I was stupid with their money. Yeah. Because giving God always exhaust you, you know, we've been married for 30 years now. We've always tied at least 10%. And we've never ever been without, we've been close, sometimes taken
Reverend Ben Cooper:to God.
Brian Greenaway:Yeah, but it's the same thing. And so it's a faith thing. Sabbath is a faith thing. You say in faith God, you've put this pattern in Scripture. You've given us the command and yes, it's still relevant today. Okay. Cuz, you know, you might say, Oh, it's not it's not relevant anymore. But you know, do not kill, do not cover all relevant. You know the word Sabbath appears 150 times in the Bible. Yeah, 59 times in the New Testament by now that's selling us something that's telling me, you know, the New Testament shorter than the old. Yeah, it's proportionally it appears more in the New Testament. Okay, so that principle is still there. So when we take a Sabbath rest, we're doing something in faith, we are saying, God, I'm going to be obedient. You told me to take a rest, I'm going to take a rest. And I'm going to leave it to you. And you'll find that as in giving God blesses you financially and takes care of you. In the same way, when you take that Sabbath rest, God will bless your time, God will bless your pattern of your life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So for anyone that's listening to this, or just like me thinking to myself, this is probably one of the, this might sound funny to some people. This is probably gonna be one of the biggest challenges I would have to face on a long time. Now, I know people have got health issues or that sort of stuff, but but when when I am like I am see when I rest, guilt drops in fear, yeah, drops in, I'm a very, I'm a very anxious person. So it's not just a case of, I'll have a day off, I'll sit by the pole. It'll be a day off. Now I've got to deal with it spiritually. So this this is, you know, God has blessed me with health, all my life, all my life. So I don't have the challenges that other people so people think and you know, what I'm carrying? You think this is this is but but to me to find this place of rest, complete shutdown, but they don't know I should be, huh? Yes, yeah. It's, it's a challenge. And everybody's got these different challenges. And, you know, I just, I just thank God that his grace, he knows us. He loves us. So can we, for those listed out there thinking, you know what, that's a challenge for me. Actually, I've got a business I've got family, children are on working extra hours on William, two jobs on finance. I financially can't cut any time out for this. I know the answer to this one is but I've got to ask is, can we start to do it slowly?
Brian Greenaway:I think that's I was I was gonna say that. We're heading that way. Yeah. Because, like anything, if we're going to change things, it's not good to do it instantaneous. So that we Yeah, we ourselves upset the rhythm of our life, because it's that rhythm of our life is yes. So start to think about intention on the team plan and think, right, I do need to have a rest. Yeah, that's what we think. And talk to whoever's in episode about it. So you know, I, you, we need to make sure we have a rest. So what can we do? Okay, let's look at our lives and say, What's better? So what are we doing with our lives? Let's take pick one evening and the week. Yeah, and say right, what are we doing? Oh, do we have some people have movie nights? Don't need to get out yet.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Practice? Good. Yeah.
Brian Greenaway:Or people going on date nights with their wives. Yeah, that's another good thing go out for a meal. Yeah. Okay, taking maybe a lunchtime, I have a breakfast together that begins to get the idea of stopping and resting. So put that in your diary, say put a three hour slot and wait and a two hour slot in one week.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So you'll start your intention leads planning. Yeah, I know that we need it. Yeah. You know that at the moment is it is impossible to a degree. Yeah. But as I got the diary in front of me, okay, I'm going to have free hours that day here. And then I'm going to do two there. And then that day, so as you're getting yourself in the understanding that I need the rest, I recognize the rest. Yeah. And it's a way of gently easing yourself in knots because the people might say, Well, why don't you just do that? And just trust God? Because what I'm thinking of I know people that have tues free jobs. And they do a part time job, and I didn't have a part that makes up this and they do. They do work in the evenings. And I think Well, actually, I, I can't find that but, but if we start to plan it with a long term goal to say, you know what, within four months, three months, six months, I will have that complete day. So God will God will honor and bless us as long as we start to say God, I need to deal with this. Yes, it's like an addiction, isn't it? It
Brian Greenaway:is Yeah, it is an addiction. You can't unless
Reverend Ben Cooper:goes ben or broken that addiction or cocaine God not that I'm on but I'm just making sure there that you have to go through a process you do. Yeah, yeah. You have to go through a process Yeah. We know God. God heals people straight away with that. does happen people are their addictions have broken their gambling seven pornography drugs. finances and even shopping. Yeah, and all that sort of stuff. So we know that that that can happen. And we hear stories and testimonies of where it has happened. But most of the time, God takes you for a journey of trust
Brian Greenaway:me does with day by day, we
Reverend Ben Cooper:will get that you get there, we will get there. So as long as I and I'm referring to is me now, start intentionally put in a blog now that says nothing, huh? Not 11 o'clock at night when I've done a whole day. Right? Right, when right in the thick of it, almost to the point of go, you know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna completely switch off and I'm gonna, I'm going to find a place where so let's say we're working in town, or we're working somewhere. And people are thinking, I know, there's lockdown, what FOMO and all that sort of stuff. But people are thinking, what can I do this? So if you could block out, say, a free hour slot? And just go sit in the park? That's right. Yeah. It's that sense?
Brian Greenaway:Oh, yeah. People don't like quietness. Do that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No. And that's, that's another thing with me. I'm very loud, are very, very loud. You know, the, you know, Brian, I'm loud on board. It's just, it's just me. So quietness,
Brian Greenaway:I think Isaiah 30:15. And goodness and confidence shall be your strength. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:but a prayer meeting. As you probably know, over the last few years, I've had to learn to be quiet and a prayer meeting, because I'm naturally lad. People say all you, you can just do that easy. So I've had a few challenges that I've had to try and go for a whole hours worth of prayer meeting and not say a word. Think guilt was come back here.
Brian Greenaway:Yeah, it's very personal, isn't it? Yes. thing. Ben, you're
Reverend Ben Cooper:not praying? Oh, yeah. So it's the same with this. And there must be surely other people listening to us today thinking, you know what? That's a bit like me that I'm busy. got children. The kids are at clubs. And we got this going on. And I got picked him up from school. And I've got I've got an hour where I have to do this. I have to do that. So there are ways where we we can carve time out isn't there? There are
Brian Greenaway:there are places we help us because God helped me. And we always think that we've got to do it ourselves. Yeah. And we don't, yeah, because we got to look to God and say, God, I need to do this. But I don't know how I'm going to do it. And he won't say was your problem? He never does. Does he know he always says yeah, that's great. Let me help you. And so we ask God in and I always think of that scripture on our pretty great morning, let's get to Proverbs three, where it says, In all your ways acknowledge him, and he would read your path. So I say in all your ways acknowledge, I'll say, God, this is my situation, in any situation, but we're talking about having a rest. I need to have a rest. So help me plan and God says, right,
Reverend Ben Cooper:let's do it together. So there's a good way to start. Yeah. It's planning. That's right. Yeah. To free. Our Yeah, working in town. Maybe you're lorry driver, maybe you've got just whatever your job is, whatever we have, whatever commitments we have, even though the diaries might be chockablock seven days a week, we need to intentionally extract something from that and just put resin
Brian Greenaway:because there's a bit of a warning. I'm gonna give it to you from scripture now, cuz sometimes God will be hitting a wall. Yeah, sometimes God is in that, you know, people have bad breakdowns, because and they think they'll come on the other side and say, Well, God was in it. So if I ask people a question, and I say, What's the last chapter of the Old Testament? Bible Of course say is in malikai. Of course I bought but in the Hebrew Bible, it isn't. Okay. Yes, it's chronological. kronen. So the last chapter of the Hebrew Bible is Second Chronicles 36. And this is about the judgment upon the nation of Israel for disobedience and about the 70 year xR hanging my head
Reverend Ben Cooper:now,
Brian Greenaway:if we look at am I gonna read it? Because it
says, Second Chronicles 36:17. Therefore, he brought against them the king of the Chaldeans who killed a young man with a sword in the house of their sanctuary in Jerusalem, and had no compassion on young man or virgin on the age of the week, he gave them all into his hand and all the articles from the house of God, great and small. They were taken. Then he burned the house of God, verse 19, the wars address them were destroyed. Verse 20, carried away from the sword from the sword he carried away to Babylon. They became servants Tim and his sons have ruled in the Persian to fulfill the word of the Lord by the master Jeremiah until the land had enjoyed a Sabbath. As long as she lay desolate. She kept Sabbath to fulfill 70 years now. Oh, gosh, God told the people that they land Yeah, after every seven years needed a Sabbath Yeah, rested. You don't work the land, rest the land, and they didn't do it. And they didn't do it for 490 years. No Sabbath.
Reverend Ben Cooper:My heart's been Bravo. This is why happened was
Brian Greenaway:what says, Well, I'm going to enforce it, I told you to give the land arrest. So they went into those other extreme circumstances. But they went into exile. So the Land of Israel had 70 years rest, or the accumulated Sabbath rest, and they came back from exile after 70 years. So God enforced the Sabbath.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So they didn't get away with it.
Brian Greenaway:They didn't know. They accumulated.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It was in the bank.
Brian Greenaway:So God said, No, I'm gonna do it, then he was disobedient.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It was forced on them.
Brian Greenaway:Yeah. It was. So that right at the end of the Old Testament, chronologically, that is what happened. So there's a lesson there that if the God is what a principle in play, yeah, for that supposed to be good for us. And it needs to be good for us. Yes. And if we don't take notice of that, then we ourselves suffer. And so that's what saying, suffer. And it's not saying, I'm going to punish you, now you're gonna hit a wall, and I'm gonna punishment, he's saying, you know, you've pushed it, you've put a principle in, in the world, I've got a principle in the human body creation, there's a principle of a seven day rest. It's in creation. And if you ignore it, then it has consequences. And right down to our lives, if we ignore rest, then it has consequences on our physical, mental, spiritual and emotional health, it will have consequences.
Reverend Ben Cooper:100%, right. That that that is so true, because it does play with your mind. It plays with your your being your muscles, your strength, your attitude, can make you angry. overworking makes your angry, you can get guilty, you can. And also, it takes your eyes off of what God is asking you to do for you. And it is so so so important, is it is really interesting discussion because this is really speaking to me. And I'm gonna do this. And I love the fact that the God that we serve, already knows that I'm not doing it already knows that I'm not that I'm disobedient to this, he already knows but but he knows that I will, in time with planning be able to come to this place. So we serve a God that that is a judging god that is a God of mercy and goodness and love, but he expects me to take this rest. Yep. But the world wants us to be as busy as possible. Keep the money coming into the keeper of the purse, keep the system moving, busy, busy, busy, busy, busy. And the other night, we were texting each other for some whatever that was. And then you said I'm in a meeting. And then you said I've got another meeting that you
Brian Greenaway:so you're
Reverend Ben Cooper:right, I was out late. But what I love about this, though, Brian, is that God already knows this. He sees this in our characters. And this has been on burnin on your heart for a while because you said that he was with you in a conference call us not a few months ago where a guy was bringing this to the table as well.
Brian Greenaway:Yeah, yeah. So reminded me of something I knew. It's something we know. You know, that. We need to be reminded that we so
Reverend Ben Cooper:you've been reminded, we
Brian Greenaway:know the scriptures. We know the principle we know our health. But yeah, we don't do it sometimes. Now
Reverend Ben Cooper:we don't. He was reminded, you reminded me, I've reminded somebody else. Someone has given me a give me a book that's in the office of the hospice for me to pick up. And I'm dreading to open the pages of it. Because it this sounds really crazy. Like Brian picked up what I said, I think to myself, I can manage today, God. It's crazy, isn't it? And then you've got the guilt and all that sort of stuff. But I love the fact that, that I can plan it.
Brian Greenaway:Yes. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I can, I can plan this very practical. And what Brian is bringing to the table is that doesn't matter how busy we are, and how we might like me maybe get energized for what we do. Even though it has implications to our bodies, I get this sense of I just love doing what I do, which energizes even more, which could almost be a bad place to be. You could almost not saying that I do. You could always think that you'd become invincible You see, untouchable. And then suddenly you will hit a wall. And that wall could just last for years you could last for years.
Brian Greenaway:Balancing is about spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, and that we have the fear drive in the physical, mental thing. Yeah, emotionally, or your tank. So what's your take on below emotionally, you realize it and that's what happens often people are, they love doing the work. They work hard it so then mental strength, their desire is there and they're pushing their physical body so their physical body begins to suffer. And then the emotional tanks get low as well. And suddenly the emotions give way and physical gift when you find yourself in. Yeah, that's a question that why you've got to refill those tanks. And I mentioned Robert Morrissey books earlier. And I want to say that because he's got them for tanks in there. And that's where I got the idea from. But it's, you know, it's a principle, but it's a good book. And there are other good books on the subject as well.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's so important, Brian, that we must understand. And we must get everyone listening to him. We can start slowly. Yes. And it's not. So kenick I've I've got this right. When I say start slowly, we make a few hours here and there and everyone we build up to a certain time where we're going to have the whole day, but because our heart is right, God sees that Yes,
Brian Greenaway:he does. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But then are they gonna go? Well, if you believe in God so much that he's gonna do everything, not work? Just take the day off? For me, it's not that Yeah. It's will not be able to cope. So I need to plan that into Yeah.
Brian Greenaway:God give you strategies and help me to exactly
Reverend Ben Cooper:God helped me to really reach off your
Brian Greenaway:mental status change, I must do this must do this. And just realize that actually, you shouldn't be guilty because God has told you to do it. Yeah. I said, Have a rest have a day off? Yeah. Basically, in layman's terms, and they will help you. And I think, like the giving principle, you'll be surprised how much more you get done. If you do take a proper rest.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's right. That's exactly right. And so this has given me peace actually, should be because the drum is beating. Take the day. Yeah, the Sabbath, the SAT, the drum is beating loud and clear. But then I'm saying, God, I can't do it. Help me? Yeah, slowly, but surely, two hours, three hours or half a day, three quarters of a day, a full day. That's a challenge. It is
Brian Greenaway:challenging.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That is a challenge. Because there will be people listening go, Well, if your God is that great and so wonderful. You can just drop everything sit down there take care of that. But
Brian Greenaway:well, no, because when it's important
Reverend Ben Cooper:work is important. But I have a responsibility. Because if I dropped everything, I will be letting people down a bit doing this, but doing the consequences of that. So I have a responsibility of making structural changes. So that is refreshing because then you become able to plan mom but not doing things so much off the fly. So you've got a diary and the don't get on with electronic gadgets. So I don't have electronic data. I have the good old traditional paper diary sitting right there. Yeah, I like to see a week to view. Yeah, so I'm going to start putting that in. Nothing rest, I'm going to use Word Sabbath. I'm going to put it in. I'm going to block timeout, I'm going to block timeout on I'm gonna, I'm gonna pray that God will guide me that he will give me the strength to have a whole day
Brian Greenaway:is a quote from Abraham Lincoln. He said, If he asked me to chop down a tree and give me seven hours to do it, probably not the answer at seven. So he said, I will spend four hours sharpening the axe.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Interesting. That is so true, isn't it? Yeah. Yes,
Brian Greenaway:we keep hammering away with a blunt axe we're gonna completely whereas and waste more time on me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Sorry. So this, this encompasses so much more about that includes planning. Because everyone has families, everybody has financial gifts. Sometimes, right? We over commit financially, sometimes people to pull this job in that job in, they got a little bit of extra work here. Or if they're self employed, they're there. They're pressing that drum all day long. So planning is good. From a biblical side as well, because we know God created the heavens and the earth, and all that it was planned as an order. So there is an order. So. So the advice that that I would give an athlete, Brian that would say is we start slowly. Yes, yeah. But it's the intention. It is yes, it's the heart. We know that within three months, four months, five, six months, I will reach that goal. I will break this habit. Yes. Because it is a habit. It is an addiction. Or maybe we don't realize maybe people that are in the world of business and the world of just love doing what they do. It becomes almost addictive. I'm doing very robotic as well. So the advice that we can give to people is just plan. Yeah, plan. Just plan. Maybe study what the Sabbath means go back for the Scripture and ask the Holy Spirit to to guide you and to plan that for and to work for because it's, it's possible within six months, no matter how busy anybody is. You can even be busier. Yeah. When you take the day. Yeah. Yeah. Because God will will make things happen because we are being obedient to his command.
Brian Greenaway:Yes. That is true.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Brian, it is so good. It's so good. It's been amazing. It's been scary. But Brian, we love you. And we want to say thank you so much, Brian. We thank you for your ministry your time, and I hope you're rested. I know. Yeah. But it's a challenge isn't it is for the culture in which we live in is, is it really is a challenge. It's a challenge
Brian Greenaway:facing the faith
Reverend Ben Cooper:is a faith thing. Because that word burnout. We've got to be careful. Brian, we thank you for spending time with us this afternoon this morning whenever you're listening to this we I've been listening to Ian church in Swanley. The podcast that we've been pushing out we thank God for everyone that's been listening to us and I know you're sharing and you're like in and if you need to find Brian Greenaway for any reason whatever that may be. Brian How can they get hold of you?
Brian Greenaway:Okay, well, you can contact us Our website is maozisrael.uk is M A O Z israel.uk or you can contact us on UK@maozIsrael.org
Reverend Ben Cooper:simple and you can catch Brian. Great teaching great things that they're doing trips when the lockdown, whatever. So we just say thank you, Brian, for sharing everything today. We really appreciate you. We'll catch you in a week or two. And thank you everybody for listening. Have a great day. Great afternoon, great evening. But most importantly, Sabbath. We all need that blessings