Hello and welcome to our podcast here Elim church. You're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and Leya for this afternoon's little bit of chat a little Saturday afternoon chat. It's not Saturday, it's Thursday. It's Thursday. Good afternoon.
Leya:Good afternoon.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Lovely to have you with us today. Hearing in that's the last thing ding on the iPad little ding ding ding ding on the iPad, letting us know there's emails in the box.
Leya:It's the ding ding there's an email saying is that
Reverend Ben Cooper:she's, she's back. She's back with us. She
Leya:came back.
Reverend Ben Cooper:A little break. We're rolling up to chrimbo is Saturday afternoon when this gets pushed out on Saturday afternoon podcast. And you are joining us here at alien church we ask that you will push everything out that we do share it, rinse it do absolutely everything with it. You know, comment on it. You know when you sit in the room? Let's go viral.
Leya:Yeah. You know, we
Reverend Ben Cooper:try to keep these like these little ones that we do because we do some heavy haul stuff sometimes. So got some persecuted church today. Whoo.
Leya:So it is such important
Reverend Ben Cooper:what people go for Jesus. Yeah. Like a festive jumper.
Leya:Almost away my birthday boy, Jesus t shirt.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Jesus's face on the front. Day boy, we are picking up Jesus today. We love you, Lord. We do we love Jesus. You know, wherever you are around the world, you know, we just pray that God is strengthening your bond with you. And it's very unusual times of crisis but we are just gonna have a look at someone quite important.
Leya:Oh, yeah. She said that everybody wants to play in the school Nativity. Yeah, Chanel like. Did you get? Did you get third innkeeper? Nah. Did you get second innkeeper? No. First innkeeper? No. I got no why.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Mary? You got Mary
Leya:Mary mother of. Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow. What I inspiration?
Leya:What an inspiration. Imagine that though. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The word. They were gonna be carrying child. Yeah. Whatever. His name is Jesus. Is Jesus, the Savior of
Leya:the world? principes. Gosh, when
Reverend Ben Cooper:you think about that, the responsibility that chef
Leya:says that self is now married. Did you know which is one of my favorites.
Reverend Ben Cooper:All right. Yes. Yeah.
Leya:Which we've done with the kids. And it's all about Did you know that? This is what you would were doing at the time? Did you know that this is what was going to happen? That time and the level of responsibility that must have been lying on our shoulders, but she didn't know. That's the thing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:She didn't know anything about carrying. You think about that, theologically. You actually can't monitor or pray pound Brian cope with that, that this young woman just found favor righteousness in the eyes of God and he chose to use her to carry himself. Yeah. The Creator of the heavens. She says
Leya:she's best, as best as best my soul or is. My soul is singing for him.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, without going into the finding the scripture just just just generally chat in a by Gemini chat chit chat chit chit chit chat. You imagine
Leya:though like you're I mean. I'm 43. So yeah, if I met someone now I would sort of be like, Okay, I'm gonna have a baby or whatever. But she must have been quite young at the time. Yeah. 1415 1415. Yeah, I believe. In 15 years old. She's living in a tiny, small place. She's living in Nazareth. They will live in Berlin. She's living in Nazareth. It's a small place. Probably 20 families living there. Everybody knows each other. Yeah. She's engaged to be married to Joseph. Joseph. Yes. Are you wearing his ring? Yeah, he got his jacket. Yeah. Because of Joseph. So she's engaged to Joseph, and everybody's happy and everything's cool. And then an angel comes down and says, you're going to be the mother of Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:In a minute. pledged to be married. What are you going on about one? What are you referring to? Yeah, but he says Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. Imagine that. Well, I'm afraid because what you're telling me, I'm 15 years old. 15 years old. What's my dad gonna say? Yeah, what's mom and dad are gonna say when you think about the society and the culture and everything about that, goodness gracious, it's
Leya:just been. I've just been listening to a really good podcast. And in it, they were saying, you know, this is an area which is no now your honor killings.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. Yeah.
Leya:So definitely. You're 15 years old at a time when things are historically probably more extreme.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Definitely. Without a doubt,
Leya:not everybody believes in God night So it's kind of a bit. How do you know that that's really an angel this token chair? Well, you do because you believe in God and you love garden? Yeah. So is everything to you as your 15 year old child, you're more faithful thana lot of the people
Reverend Ben Cooper:the innocence. Yeah, maybe the age was on her side as in the innocence. And obviously, when heaven comes down and speaks to you, you know that it's Heaven, that's for sure. I don't think there's any doubt when God uses and he sends an angel to be in front of you. I think that you will know deep in your spirit that this is so supernatural. This is just off of the planet. Yes, this is of God. But when you think God chose Mary to carry, the King of glory, he came, she was carrying the word she was carrying the word you know, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. And we get all that what it says in john. And then he also says, enjoying the Word became flesh. So we understand that Christ was at the beginning of time, yeah. Then he humbled himself when he came down 14 generations, the scripture says maternity sweet, sweet,
Leya:I'll just wait. I just wait 14 generations isn't ready yet.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Think about that, what the Gospel says he came down 14 generations. And when you see the timeline, what he came through and who he went through, and the seed all the way through and suddenly comes, was ready.
Leya:The cake, the baking of creation was ready,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it was ready. But the scripture says he humbled himself. Yeah. And became so when you think when you really try and think about this, that God created the heavens and the earth. So we have the Spirit of God. In Genesis, we have the Holy Spirit hovering over the surface of the day we have, we have Christ, the word was at the beginning of time we have God. At the beginning, there was all the Trinity. We know the Bible don't talk about the Trinity as in the word Trinity, but the three was at the beginning of time. And over time, is over time they knew they chose what you look at it without spending too much time on theological stuff. They knew that a point in time Christ would have to leave the heavenly realms, being with his father as well. So when you look at the three, you got the son, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, were there at the beginning of time, but she must have been a part of
Leya:the plan. Because also revelations and as we've spoken about in our podcast before, yes, the Bible just is cyclical. It really isn't. It goes round and round in circles.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So you so when you look at that, that at the beginning of time she was chosen before she was even created, because we can't say so we say what? So why did it wait on my brain? Just
Leya:my brain just exploded for a minute, then yeah, popped, it pops. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:when you think about it, before he even created the heavens and the earth, God knows everything. He knows stuff before it happens when it happens. And so he knew wherever he was hovering,
Leya:you know, when you do like, you're thinking of an idea or a thing. And you do yourself a nice little sketchbook or something. Could you imagine the size of his study?
Reverend Ben Cooper:library like
Leya:he must have plans and maps
Reverend Ben Cooper:surely hasn't gotten a New King James because he used the word. sitting on the shelf. Jesus, slide on the shelf. Come on, come on Bible. Jesus died on the show. There's the word not printed in your phone.
Leya:You're my shelf? Yeah, well, I don't say he's me. And my son.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I so when you break all that down, when you break when you really break that down, and they chose a miracle in itself and Harry,
Leya:he, yeah. 15 years ago,
Reverend Ben Cooper:he's at the beginning of time, he created time. He spoke the world into being he knew sin was gonna come. He knew everything. He they knew Christ. They knew everything, you know, for everything, everything. Because the redemption plan was put in place in the garden. So there was that plan all the way through and then suddenly, they choose not suddenly to married time a timeline comes on on on the screen. That's what I mean. It's been weighing. Yeah, just looking.
Leya:Come on. Is it? Time to go Oh, yeah, literally The egg timer of all egg timers
Reverend Ben Cooper:so the word suddenly becomes flesh. Yeah, they choose marry. Yeah, culturally completely. Wrong. Exactly. And
Leya:she's got a
Reverend Ben Cooper:tale Trove to be married but not married yet. She's got to tell Joseph Joseph laying on the sofa downstairs thinking. I've got a divorce or quietly, but the angel of the Lord came down and said to him, listen,
Leya:well, he, he went to a synagogue. Yeah, in Luke it says he went to a synagogue, spoke to the gazer. There. Yeah. And it gives us it sets up change, Chase, said, I do this for you quietly. Sure. Because, you know, yeah, I don't want to cause any disgrace. And Joseph being a good dude. Yeah. I don't want to cause her any disgrace. I don't want to make this into a massive, great public spectacle. So please commit to this. Respectfully, says, You know what she did? She walked 90 miles. And it this is a thing I've just just heard, and just found out she was 90 miles on our own pregnant to go and stay with john the baptist smother.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Do
Leya:so john, the Baptist member was always part of the story as well. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah. He was also pregnant.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And, yeah. who leaked in the womb? The little
Leya:baby. You
Reverend Ben Cooper:think about that? Yeah. john the baptist? When sir. Yeah, I know. It's like, we've got an activities happening now. And were a bit of a chuckle about and trying to keep it nice and light. But when you think we really work and you look at this and study the journey that she walked the journey that she went on spiritually. He went on to know me, that's sort of been her route for her. But then the tivities fluff it all up then they would just see it in me and all that. marry them the mother of Jesus, but when you think what she went through the emotional strain, she must have gone through having having an angel pop up in your front room. Yeah, you're gonna carry child but we never bought. What back? Isn't
Leya:that question that everybody else what society can think of me?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Man, imagine a conversation that was going on between Joseph. Joseph, I've just been done a kebab shop. I've just bought your little toe, you're saying just quit? Yeah. I'm pretty good.
Leya:Yeah, exactly
Reverend Ben Cooper:how much strength must emerge in that conversation that was going on? A man, it's a 15 year note, explore all this. And you look at this, and he was in love with and loves to all that sort of stuff. To find out that going on a minute, they say right, but she's just told me that she hasn't had anyone else in a moment she
Leya:would if that had got out. She would have been stoned to death. Yeah, she would have been stoned to death. So God, God kept the stand the fact that they
Reverend Ben Cooper:expected her to carry Jesus to carry himself.
Leya:Yeah. And to put that into Josie as well. Exactly. And then will Joseph have taught that grace to Jesus as a child? Do you know I mean, that forgiving nature?
Reverend Ben Cooper:You Farley's rusks trouble now that now. Oh, God. Would you tell when you gotta look at this every year in so many different ways. You look at Mary as this young, single mom, you take the point? Yeah.
Leya:Because she she did take Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. Did but when you think when it all was coming in?
Leya:She was pregnant? Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And then I just caught it. Because Jesus was brought up in an ordinary house
Leya:here. That's the thing I find fascinating about Mary is that obviously up until he went to the synagogue, yeah. And learn yourself. She would have been his guiding influence her and Joseph together. And his brothers and his brothers. Yeah. His brother she was a minute ago. Who enforces the rules in the house? Yeah. That's of working that he's building scaffold in general. I mean, listen, boys.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Tidy your bedrooms up or be trouble. Yeah,
Leya:but she's the one that's teaching him the lessons the lessons of your life
Reverend Ben Cooper:and we don't really talk about this though. He really when you look at Christianity, and you look at Marian, your study of integrity and all that once a year the church pulls out the bag, talks about it, but when you look at Christ, when he was becoming an agent, and he was a young boy and he said, speak and talk this is like
Leya:Yeah, thinking
Reverend Ben Cooper:that Christ had to learn to speak to right. He was a toddler. He was a baby.
Leya:Did he know this is the thing I want to know? Yeah. I want to know, did he know? From birth? I am the Son of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Did he have a beard? Straight away?
Leya:That would have been weird. That would have been a weird.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, you're right. Did did it cause he had to be? Right. So the Word became flesh and made his dwelling. So the word was already there. So he would when you say me, juiced himself, he made himself he was he scripts, Scripture says, a man in a child's body what we can think about, which is fine, these questions that because the more you think about it, when the more he think about it, so the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. But then also, we got to remember that he knows all he is about all and in that collection, says he, he was before Tom and he created time and all on bit. Paraphrasing, God says, it says without him, the world wasn't made. The world was made for him, by him and through him. Yeah, so he he has all knowledge all understanding, then suddenly became as this child, he becomes this is the thing because it is dependent on it. Yeah.
Leya:That's it. I was like to think of Jesus as being a man.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because the Bible says that, man. So that's what we got to understand. He's
Leya:got all these wise men because otherwise it's not something I can relate to. None of these human. I want to say fallibilities is a right word. man.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He's got all the human
Leya:emotions, the emotion. Yeah, he controls himself or his father. Is that something that done? Brother done said yes. In one of our things one time. Bible says one time is that all he needs to do was sin once and he wouldn't have been perfect. But he had to fight every life every moccasin, because he was a man. And that's the thing that I think about a lot of dum dums a date Dong Dong. But yeah, it may be a must have must have been a guiding force in that life coach. She wants to be in the set. him love. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, coach.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Bring in the Father's love the motherly love
Leya:the brotherly love the unconditional love. Yeah, that's what she must have told him that and Joseph is
Reverend Ben Cooper:god yeah. When you talk about she was at his crucifixion, huh? Yeah. And and so when you look at that day was together then 33 years, and I didn't go off and buy a flat and live in now. It's not gonna live in town, I think a job in Scotland. Yeah, I'm off Celia. He that that the family unit was there all this together the whole point until and what's fascinating is that his brothers didn't believe he was Messiah. Until we came back to his crucifixion. Yeah, his brothers were growing up in the house with Jesus.
Leya:Yeah. Yeah, I
Reverend Ben Cooper:didn't even within probably fire in a wrestling on the outside kicking a football about and being beaten. He did nothing in it. Did Jesus wrestle his brothers
Leya:are really hard to say because it makes it more of a man. Exactly. And there's somebody that we can relate to. That's that that that's the test the humanity in him
Reverend Ben Cooper:when you think about that he'd done all the things that a boy would have done, and she would address them climbing trees.
Leya:I love Mary as this woman that wrote it down.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I know that that's what
Leya:ended this. Yes, ma'am.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh,
Leya:pups. Okay. So good. But
Reverend Ben Cooper:what, but when you look at what Christ went through, I know we're looking at married but you can't help but speak about both. Okay. Because as the mom, yeah, she was in charge of him.
Leya:Yeah, exactly. And the thing I love is that she was the one that said to the to him. Shan Shan what can do? She was the person that revealed his first miracle. Yeah. She She is if if it was a show called Jesus, she opened the curtains. she say she was.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It was
Leya:when they when they'd run it at one wedding. Yeah. And she said, Didn't she say show him show him what you can do. To be honest with you. I'm not very good remembering scripture.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Now we don't need to worry too much. We just gently.
Leya:She said, Go and share what you do. And he said, Oh, I'm not I'm not quite sure. I'm not quite sure. And she said Chairman couldn't eat it. And that's when he turns the water into wine. And that's when his journey began. As in this Safia Yeah, the miracle worker. The way mica
Reverend Ben Cooper:promised everything light in the darkness, the great art of seeing away. Yeah, it's thought so it is in. It's in Luke chapter one first day. So think the angel said to her, do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God.
Leya:And so my phone.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So you say when you think about that, when you really think about that, Luke chapter one, verse 30. But the angel said to her, this, these four words interest me, do not be afraid. Now that tells you a minute, she must have thought, what is this
Leya:all the way for what I love about the way through the Bible, whenever an angel appears, they say Do not be afraid, because they know that a human being cannot fathom the expanse of another world. No, because we exist in at the same time as this. Yes, that the perspective is that our minds pop in this room, it pops.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. It's like it when you think about the more I think about Jesus as a young lad, a young boy, you know, playing with his brothers outside, you know, sitting around the table, eating together, being together, you know, sharing food together, just just it. it's mind blowing, when you start to unpack it without going and try to keep away from the theological stuff and getting caught up in that when you look at it on a human, a human level, rather than going into it as a churchy level and trying to be all high and mighty and trying to unpack it and work it all out all our jazz aroni that's when you look
Leya:at me
Reverend Ben Cooper:as a as a family story. And you've got to I it's mind blowing is mind blowing. It's beautiful. It is. It's fun. It's fun,
Leya:because at the moment we've just left out in the wilderness with Elizabeth. Yeah. So she went back Pinochet. This is where my this is where my understanding it's a little bit. Okay. Wait, she went back? And then Joseph had a dream. Yeah. And in the dream and other angel appeared and said, Don't be afraid.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Don't be afraid. So we have them for words again, don't be afraid.
Leya:But what I love is that Jesus, throughout his life would have known that he was not his father's Josephs.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, he knew that. He knows. He knew that.
Leya:So then later on when there is a when there's a prostitute in there, she was without sin cast first time. Yeah, in that. He respects that woman. He does, because he knows. People talking. She was found to have sinned, wasn't she she was called to have been, she was called. She was called in an affair. She was caught red handed. Yeah. And he knew that. And he knows what accusations public accusations can do to somebody. So yeah, so instead, he starts drawing in the sand to draw people's eyes away from the fact that the prostitute is there. And so that learning that lesson that Mary has taught him, as gone throughout his life,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and also so you've got Christ understanding that his heavenly Father God, and also respecting his earthly human father, adopted father, whatever way you look at that, Joseph, yeah. So Joseph put his life into Christ as well. Yeah. We don't hear a lot about Joseph appears just so much disappears off the fabric of the page.
Leya:It must have died, which he said, I reckon he did.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Some a carpenter some Well,
Leya:that's another thing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:When you think about a carpenter that would have worked hard, they would have worked together. Christ as the carpenter's son on a tray, when you really study that the life before his ministry began, and not talking about just the synagogue experience and all that I'm talking about. Christ, the workman Christ, the work of Christ, the brother, the brother to his brothers. Yeah. The child of his mom that the son of his his dad Joseph earthly, we look at that I can I will, I'd love to have seen what some of that yeah, I mean, he put that Play Station down Jesus come on at a time, not five minutes. I
Leya:bet you whittled Jackie whittled, but when you're little when you're little yours, try and whittle a bow and arrow
Reverend Ben Cooper:just floated I was watching this. I just
Leya:stopped doing it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'll put when you put the Christmas decorations I didn't put a star. I had Christmas
Leya:decorations. I didn't have Christmas decorations, because I didn't know he was Christ.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Would you look, we know we're flapping around, we
Leya:need to talk about Mary Magdalene, back to Mary's always talking about the
Reverend Ben Cooper:other one. But the other
Leya:Mary, I'm gonna talk about that. This is what I love. This is what I love about the Bible. So you've got one story. Yeah. Which is about Mary, mother of Jesus, who was pure. Yes, they believe that she was a sinner. Yeah. And she obviously had the child, Jesus. And then you've got Mary Magdalene, who they believed was a sinner. And she became a pure
Reverend Ben Cooper:Moses. You think about that when you bring all this together cycle? Yeah, the
Leya:cycle. So the thing about mermaids and I've done a bit of research in
Reverend Ben Cooper:flora, Jesus, she
Leya:was a follower of Jesus followed him. She followed him followed him. She followed him, but okay, the thing about Mary Magdalene is that a lot of people I'm going to dispel some myths. They believe that she was a prostitute. Best thing I heard. Yeah. And another thing absolute.
Reverend Ben Cooper:God wants me up
Leya:when I think about it is that the Vinci Code rubbish?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, yeah, you've
Leya:been Jesus's wife. No.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Thank you.
Leya:We'll put it away. Cuz now. So we're putting those I'm putting those away. The thing about Mary was she wasn't a prostitute. She had seven demons inside. Yeah. Seven. Yes. is pure number in a Bible. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So seven is pure number in the Bible, which means that she was the devil had her perfectly. He had a completely Yeah. So Jesus came along, being a dude. And not having judgment of people, because the fact that his mother had been judged. And he had learned Yeah. He cured.
Reverend Ben Cooper:A Hilda.
Leya:Hilda, free safaree. Yeah. And from that moment on, she worshiped him. Yeah, she followed him wherever he went. She was the person that was always there. So they say that Jesus loved john the most. But that the person that loved Jesus the most was Mary Magdalene. Yeah. Because she never left this side. She was the one that when he was crucified, she
Reverend Ben Cooper:there? Yeah,
Leya:we've married his mother. Yes. She was the one that anointed his body. She was the one that went back the next morning to continue the indictment of his body because you do one prior to death, and then one after death. She was the one that the angel visited, and said, Why are you looking for him here? But you know, he's risen
Reverend Ben Cooper:these areas.
Leya:She was the one that went and told the rest of the disciples, the message, that he is risen, proven that he was the son of God, and not just a man.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So in Mark chapter 16, verse one, says, when the Sabbath had passed, Mary Magdalene and the mother, Mary, the mother of James took some spices and went to anoint him. Yeah. And then so we've got loads of scriptures referring to this mirror we're talking about. Yeah. It's it's so powerful when you look at it through the word and how she was completely opposite until she account Nevertheless, it never left him. She never leaves in that in that. So it's such a spiritual lesson, that before we knew Christ, we was away from him doing what we wanted. But as soon as someone comes to him and receives a healing, a transformation you do not leave him. Exactly. You do not leave. Exactly.
Leya:And the thing that I really love about that is, it doesn't matter how perfectly you believe that Satan has got you or how perfectly Satan has got you. You can find redemption. You can find the love of Jesus, no matter
Reverend Ben Cooper:what's going on. Yeah, doesn't matter what's happened.
Leya:Yeah, so so we all this is what I feel is really important to say about Mary Magdalene, Mary Magdalene. Magdalene is where she came from. It was Mary of mag, de la Magdalena. magdala is a man with
Reverend Ben Cooper:magdala
Leya:metalla is where she came from, which was a rich place
Reverend Ben Cooper:very rich. So when you look at her,
Leya:yeah, she was like Prospero Armani. The thing I love about the story and Just keep going back to it and saying it too, too is that for her story is about how we can all be saved for perfect, perfect possession into perfect redemption. Because all the other disciples all the all the gazes, they bad lay down their nets and walked, they chose, they chose to follow Jesus and as brilliant as they did, but he saved her. She was I can't, I can't find the words to say what I'm trying to say. Because she was in the blackest hole she was
Reverend Ben Cooper:the darkest place you could want to be. Yeah. And what happened? Jesus shows us a safe that Jesus shows up conversation dialogue. This All right. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, it's fine.
Leya:Yeah. And what I want to say, what I want people to get across is that if anyone's listening to this, yeah, and they think that they're not worthy. And they think that they're in a home. Yeah. And I can't find a way out of it. Yeah, you can. You can cuz she's your lesson that you can
Reverend Ben Cooper:you look at your marriage. And you look at the scriptures that where she, the amount of time she is in the scripture in the New Testament, and how she had, she was weeping by the tomb side, she was there. And the angel of the Lord said, while you're looking, he's not here it you know, imagine as she fell, yeah, this Jesus saved her life. Now she's gone to the term just to pay respect to and some stones rolled. And she has an encounter with the angel.
Leya:Find really weird or
Reverend Ben Cooper:careful.
Leya:She is Yeah, she doesn't recognize him. Why
Reverend Ben Cooper:not? You? Wait, we got to understand who would recognize
Leya:it in a different form?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Is it that he appears in the gardener? A she said they married? The gardener?
Leya:What do you mean,
Reverend Ben Cooper:she when Jesus shows up? And he appears to to them and they said, Where have you laid him? Where have you laid him? They don't recognize? When you look at scripture, they also the two on the mass road, the Bible says that their hearts were stopped from they were stopped from recognizing Jesus. Was it because he was so holy? Was it because he ain't going to the Father? Was it because of fear? Yeah. Without with trust, in the fact that he could try not to unpack it too much, but just keeping it on on a lighter platform where when you understand that? What must it have been like? Now what we got to remember is what did Christ look like? What did he look like? Because we got to understand where he had just come from. So where I just come from? was deaf beyond human understanding. We whipped beat and you can imagine what what his body was like his physicality when they laid him in the term,
Leya:but she still loved them and honor them and went there. Yeah, to anoint his body and give me the grace that that yes, yeah, that's what I love about her as well.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what we got what we got to understand is that when Christ went into the tomb, yeah, his body was a mess. Without being disrespectful, it was you don't even want to think about what that would have looked like. I know all the Hollywood movies make it all look you know, but you beyond all that. Yeah. Ah, then the scripture says And the angel says he's not here he has risen and the scripture says that he wrapped up the grave clothes late and so he was back. Yeah, Jesus is back from India. So what we say to ourselves What did he look like? So that we can think about Thomas because Thomas said if I don't see the now marks and put my finger where they were, I will not believe so there was some shall we say scars? There was some evidence on his being Yeah, that stuff was there look Put your hand in there my side touch the now marks See, this is me. It's just blowing my head The more I think about it, I'll try probably because it's you're focusing on this was a baby. He came into the world to die. He lived as a child did he know for that child experience that I am going to the cross?
Leya:I think so certain time in his life he no because he started to spend more time talking to God in the church didn't a
Reverend Ben Cooper:year and as soon as it says that, yeah, he says he was. But what what we got what we got remember is that this is the word of God. He is he is everything. Yeah, no. So he must know everything. But he took on humanity upon himself when we say so. He's a human. He has a human but in Genesis it says no God said let us make man in our image. Yeah. two legs, arms.
Leya:So funky chicken dance.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So the human form the human form, when you're trying to break all this down and work this out, yeah, yeah, there's people out there, listen to this, there'll be so much one on one
Leya:personal opinion. I'm just a little grain of sand in this universe. In my personal opinion, I think that God would have cheated Jesus of a childhood if he'd known that he would have had that hanging over him forever. Yeah, the sword of Damocles? And I don't think that that would have been fair. And I think that God is fair.
Reverend Ben Cooper:God is for is a God, everything. Yeah. We're here when you're trying to. But
Leya:how amazing is that, though, that the person that was the going back to Mary Magdalene now was the the most impure demonic possession that is mentioned in the Bible. And then she is the one that is allowed to say to the world, the universe for the next 2000 years. 4000 5000 hours for all of eternity. Yeah, she is the person that announces to the world He is risen. So she's gone from being the most
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Yes.
Leya:The most. Yeah. Cursed to be in the most honored.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What are you trying to? Yeah, you're trying to? So she was the light to the light? Well, yeah. The dark, the darkest depths of everything. But who was the first one at the term?
Leya:Exactly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:When you think about most loyal, she was at the term. Now one
Leya:thing I do find a bit frustrating is that she obviously was a disciple of Christ. Because it talks in the Bible about some women, so that will enter some women follow him around. She obviously was a disciple of Christ. But she doesn't get the name disciple with a capital D. Now, and I mentioned it earlier. Yeah. As a feminist in me. Yeah. Fair enough.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But that's mentioned in Matthew 2757, you became a follower of Jesus, a witness of his crucifixion and the burial. We find all that out, you know? Yeah. And she was the first person to see Jesus alive. Mark 16, verse nine, you know,
Leya:so he's the first person I don't know how much time we've got some call. I'm trying to wrap it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, yeah. First
Leya:person that we really see in Revelation. is Mary, the mother of Jesus again.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So because it
Leya:talks again about the the the Mary,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Mary, what do you got? Come on. So let's have a look. Let's have a look. We want I want, I want to say what
Leya:down it goes down. I go, Oh, my God,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm waiting. Come on. No, no, I'm waiting to see what you got. Come on
Leya:in Revelation. She was at the beginning and she's at the end. Okay. So this is the thing I like about it. So I'm getting past me Can't get you know, come on, girl. What's going on?
Reverend Ben Cooper:So in john chapter 20, verse 18, she and Mary Magdalene make the line or whatever you want to pronounce it, went and announced to the disciples. Yeah, I have seen the Lord bless the bay. I have seen john chapter 20. She was delivered by him set free by him. The demons popped out the demon scar, but when I say comes he on our way up before he talks to me, I'm gone. I'm out. Yeah. So they were gone. Seven. Yeah, seven.
Leya:I'll just put that so eloquently. I've been struggling to say it for this whole time, but you just put it into one sentence. Perfect. Thank you. Good boy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Good boy. Yeah, boy, bad boy. So
Leya:in Revelations, sitting God's temple in heaven was opened. And the Ark of the Covenant can be seen in a temple and there was Indiana Jones going down. Sorry. So there were flashes of lightning rumblings and peals of thunder, an earthquake and a violent hailstorm. A great sign appeared in the sky. A woman clothed with his son with the moon under her feet, and on her head, a crown of 12 stars. And that's Mary in Revelations,
Reverend Ben Cooper:interesting, yeah.
Leya:So she was on it at the end. That's Mary, mother of Jesus, not Mary Magdalene. Uh huh. She's She's mentioned in the beginning of Jesus's life. And then the beginning of Jesus's life again,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the beginning, all the way
Leya:that's what I'm saying now, did I mean this is the beginning of Jesus's life again, because that's revelation. That's when Yeah, comes back to this. I'll be back. Baby Jesus Jesus Swartz Nagar said that
Reverend Ben Cooper:he must be a Christian
Leya:said I'd be back but Jesus Jesus, Jesus short snake I said pay right back.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'll be right back. Yeah, I will take on the world. Thank you Bye it you know, I know I mess about and I can you know I laugh and joke but Wow, well God we say no you have to look at things
Leya:and not the way you humor as well
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah I do believe you have to look at things in a humorous way that you fall down if you don't because it can help you to understand things more. Yeah, you know, yeah, you can you can understand it because it's, it speaks to me. When I bend backwards and forwards it helps me to understand things. And if I was to go too deep theologically, I would I wouldn't snore off again. Yeah, I love the word. I love the word of God, I spent years studying it. I still study it cool to do. But I love talking about it in a relaxed atmosphere where you haven't got to put your collar on and make sure you get every scripture posted.
Leya:And I think for us becoming Christians, that is too is too difficult. It's not it's not relatable. Yeah. And I think that's something that I have real issue with when I first became a Christian was that I felt like the church had their grasp on the word. Yeah. The church had, it was the way that the church understood it. And that was the way so the church were the ones that said that Mary Magdalene was supposed to cheat. That was that was what they said. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:but she's not. Now you got the you got to go and look in he got a look at what the scripture says. Yeah, exactly. adulterous.
Leya:Yeah. When you look, that's and that's not very moping. No, no,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm not when you look at when you've got to look at the word. So someone mentioned adulterous, and the prostitute, you gotta look at when you're going to the Old Testament, you've got to look at what Scripture says, What ad How does it define people? Yeah. What does it actually say? You know, and I love the fact that john in the Gospel of john, right, and the gospel of john chapter 21st, one it says, early in the first data week, while it was still dark, that's very significant was still dark. Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. She came around into Simon and Peter and the other disciples. The one who Jesus loved that we mentioned earlier. Yeah. They have taken the Lord out of the term. She said, Just imagine how angry she must have been. Yeah,
Leya:somebody that's followed him her entire since she's been saved. She's wrong. Some someone Yeah, someone's stolen. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, King. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, he would be you would be fuming. We'll be right in it. You would be livid when Yeah. So when you when you think about it, she loved Jesus, simply because she was freed by Jesus. Yeah. And she felt the power of God.
Leya:I know.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You've got them demons inside of you. No one else can remove them. No preacher, teacher, no synagogue ruler. No, no one can remove that. And we're not talking about
Leya:metaphorical day. We're not talking the demon of alcohol. The demon of drugs, the demon of sex, the demon it, we're talking about actual demons.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. You look
Leya:at the finger. Fine, you know?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah. There's so much to get from this. And sometimes you we talk about food, and I feel that I haven't even want to speak about.
Leya:There's a really good thing that it talks about the different demons. I say. So. It says here, she was under untold torment. And we don't know what she went through. Now. She must have been lonely. She must have been hopeless. She must have been in mental anguish. Yeah. And the day she met Jesus, the day she met,
Reverend Ben Cooper:she met Jesus. She was
Leya:made whole. And her life was never the same. Yeah. And she devoted the rest of her life to him. Yeah. And that is the power of Jesus to make us whole. Yes. Not shrieking, not mentally unstable, but full of faith and strength. Come on.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Ha awful.
Leya:It's beautiful. When I've got to say, I've got that off a. There's a YouTube course about the women in the Bible.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's fantastic. And that's what we got there. We got to talk about these things. But when you start talking about them, and you do try to stay off of all the theological stuff, yeah, can you can get bogged down. Sometimes you got to try and speak
Leya:clearly. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:just relax and just be in a nice way where you can explain it over a beer. Just sitting around a table in a kebab. Yeah, I'm thinking about all these things, because you can get tied down Absolutely. A theological studying is needed as powerful
Leya:theological discussion, I feel like we're hitting our peaks and discussing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You could do, here we are.
Leya:And then we're hit another peak, and then we discuss it. And then we hit another peak, and then we discuss it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because you know what? You can sit and listen to someone that is so educated and got so much theological understanding when they start about you guys listening and that, but they lose me
Leya:if there's no humor in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But yeah, but when you talk about it, at a normal level, you can understand things easier and quicker.
Leya:I think that's what Jesus must have been doing. Because Yeah, because he was raised. He was raised by essentially workman. Yeah, yeah. And then he went to synagogue, he became a theologian, but also his own. So he's got the best of both worlds. And he went and talked to people. He didn't go and talk to preachers and churches, and what those people the 70s and 80s. And size, the size, and the surgeon says, Yes, he didn't go and preach to those people. In fact, he did. I don't think he actually preached and I think he just went and spoke to people on their level.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So yeah, when you talk about the Sermon on the Mount and all that, when you look at all that he spoke in parables, he spoken the language, the people in front of
Leya:stories about their lives.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He use fish as us he used agricultural Yeah. blurbs he used all the all them, all them natural stories of the land that they could relate to there was fishermen. They were carpenters, they were builders, they were cake bakers, they was all that he was speaking to them and that he didn't jump up behind the pulpit, Kava Kava pulpit out of an olive tree straightaway.
Leya:Imagine that, well think is that if he'd known from the very beginning, he was the son of God and everything that was gonna happen to him, right? So he's sitting on the doorstep at home and he starts talking to his mom about heaven and such. And she was that's very nice Jesus, but can you put in words I can understand, yeah, you gotta talk to people, Jesus,
Reverend Ben Cooper:or if he went on if he was just sitting on the doorstep one morning when Gabriel?
Leya:and Shane said, No, Jesus, you've got to learn to do these things yourself.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. Who's doing the school?
Leya:Shane, go pro in those roles? You say? Yeah, that gave him the grace. It's right. To be able to help the people that he helped. Yeah, thing is just cyclical. With this really ridiculous thing now, where they said that all the different women in the Bible, were just different facets of one woman. Well, I know that they were all facets of one idea of feminine a. Okay, so you got married appeal? Yeah, the sinner, Mary Magdalene prostitute, because that's what they will think that she is. And then you've got Mary of Shasha who does the hair and the oil, the oil and the fate and that's different lady and that these are all different facets of one woman and I think that's rubbish. Yeah. Because then you're taking away the character lesson. The each one of those
Reverend Ben Cooper:character in that Bible, and they're all part of God's plan and they're all part of God's plan. They're all unique. They're all individual but an email God so god yeah,
Leya:now he's not saying that he's saying You got it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Is the characters every one of every person in the Bible is an individual character? Yeah. And what did God create individual characters? Yeah, each one of us is different and we are individually left and you know so much you can get you know, aka we love Jesus told me I think we love him so much. It's so much to get from this Well, there's been so much and I just I love the fact that when I say skimming, I don't mean that in a I mean, it's nice just to chat on a
Leya:Yeah, I think it's I look forward to it. I think it's fun.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah,
Leya:I think other people like listening to it because they get something from it too. Yeah. I lost one about a somebody got in touch me and said was felt the same thing. Exactly. love how you chat to each other.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, exactly. It's great stuff.
Leya:If you want to go in and watch some surprise go and watch
Reverend Ben Cooper:it go listen to someone that's really theologically Yeah. We need we need everybody don't need everybody. Everybody. People were like two people. But yeah, Jesus, who's taking Jesus on a school run a day. Guys, that tray come down.
Leya:He must have been.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Hi, you all out there
Leya:to be able to talk to Peter on
Reverend Ben Cooper:flow.
Leya:But I think
Reverend Ben Cooper:never drowned swimming
Leya:in order he wouldn't, he wouldn't. In order for him to be the kind of person that human beings relate to, and to be able to relate to human beings, he had to have been raised by parents in the same way that has a lot of the fact that Mary exactly since I've been working at this was a mom, she's a human being she was a mom, Mama, if she was around in these days, she would have been pushing a pram, yeah. So yeah, let's see if market so people around the world who might not know that as there's a supermarket versus
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah,
Leya:and I believe should have been shopping in white chairs and Marks and Spencers.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And john lewis might have been it might have been stretching a little
Leya:Walmart for you in America for
Reverend Ben Cooper:America was America, America,
Leya:America. But I think that, yeah, they were just normal people. And that's why there are no more people there normal ladies, and I know that we've done we've only done for women out of the Bible. But I feel like we've touched on some good stuff in our little women in the Bible. Section. The Bible when you think about they were human beings.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I had all the trouble as amazing things, Deborah. Yes, Deborah, Deborah.
Leya:Yeah, merry, merry, merry, merry,
Reverend Ben Cooper:mary, mary,
Leya:not shackles,
Reverend Ben Cooper:not the shackles, watch chain, watch. I want to find themselves after the Mary Mary
Leya:was asking earlier was Mary had a little lamb about Jesus,
Reverend Ben Cooper:as fleece was white snow, it was
Leya:a lamb
Reverend Ben Cooper:or the lamb makes thing good. It does make the thing.
Leya:The thing though, that also I found a bit annoying is that there were some people in in some parts of the church, they think you've either got to be a Mary mother of Jesus. Or you've got to be Mary Magdalene, the prostitute. That's a thing that has been pushed on women, you are a sinner or sign. And I think that what I love about the Bible, is that actually you can be a sinner, and then you can be saved.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Leya:And being a sinner isn't a choice.
Reverend Ben Cooper:When you look at salvation, she
Leya:chose to have the devil give her seven demons. No.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Just seven number. Yeah. numerology fantastic number eight, we better we better pack? Yeah,
Leya:no, we may I feel like I'm trying to. I'm trying to give a segue
Reverend Ben Cooper:segue
Leya:over a few times, and then another subject will appear. And I'll go like this. What I'm trying to say is though, you don't have to think of yourself as a sinner forever. Because the Bible says that, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that is the power of Jesus. That is the power of salvation. That is the power of the word that is the power of the blood of Christ, you know, doesn't matter what life we have lived. There is nothing too big for our Lord Jesus Christ. When he went to the cross a Calvary, when he was on that cross in the Maris brought his feet, disciples around he at that point, and that's when he took my sin, every thing that I every area issue, crazy thing that I would do and not done gonna do all that stuff. He took everything on him
Leya:and power and use that. And power. That's only
Reverend Ben Cooper:me. What about you multiply it over and over and over? The amount of people that you went to the cross for?
Leya:How empowered is that? He can't, he can't get that in any examples of gift to the people that you can be in the people that you can, the way that you can act and the loyalty and the faithfulness that you can show and the honest and the graces that you can achieve as a result of that. And the love and the base. Yeah, that's what it's all about. That's why it's all about love and peace for me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We love you, Jesus. Oh, yeah. We love you though. Yeah, we thank you for listening today. You've been listening to myself, Reverend Ben Cooper. And I'm not saying like a Reverend today. It's just a label, just a tile. On the wall. It's just
Leya:provinces in this way. Brothers, I have to say I think I think he's, I think Jesus isn't in this room with us today. I
Reverend Ben Cooper:think he's ever.
Leya:It's just over my shoulder.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, what a beautiful God, you know, and that's what I love about that. He He create humor. He created tears. He created joy, laughter, everything. He knows everything about all of us. What we've done, what we haven't done, what we're going to do now as a subject. Yeah, he knows what we are going to do. When we're going to do it, how to do it, everything and all that and now to that cross. If we make a mistake, we're gonna be redeemed repentance. Yeah, we are redeemed. Yeah, we are redeemed. There's a word that they're trying to ban in it. repentance.
Leya:Shut up. It's Sorry I even tell people please shut up now.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes, there there, there is a law coming out because repentance means to change it. We won't go into that subject to that but we will leave you. Honestly, honestly, it's facts, its facts you've only got sir.
Leya:He can't repent.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Repent because what he knows is
Leya:the film is happening in action
Reverend Ben Cooper:manipulation of the word because repent means to just completely turn and what certain areas of departments are silent the moment is everybody has a right. So we will see over the next few months, next few years that that word repentance is such a powerful word is going to be challenged by the law of the land. Watch and listen. May God bless every one of you listening. May God strengthen you, you know keeping the word stand and the blood of Jesus and remember there is nothing too big for our Lord. We love him. We give him all the praise and all the glory. Thank you so much for listening to us here at Elim church as we said a listeni g to layout a myself as we just ramble along on this Sat rday afternoon. Stay safe. Se you next Saturday. See you next sets. God