Hello and welcome. Thank you for joining us here on our podcast and Elim church. We thank you very much for joining us. We have Leya with us at this very hour this dark hour on time. 525.
Leya:There is no our there's dark when I'm in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, actually, the podcast guy on Saturday doing exactly. Let's start again. Hello, and welcome to Saturday afternoon. The sun is shining all as well.
Leya:The birds are singing. fry up this morning. You know
Reverend Ben Cooper:what? I could smash my way through a fry up? Yeah. Well tear the granny on
Leya:Saturday. So we already have as I
Reverend Ben Cooper:said, this is Benjamin Leonard Cooper. And I just said I could smash the granny out for fire.
Leya:Yeah, that's bad. Don't say that again.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I will delete that.
Leya:Yeah, to be honest with you. I didn't you say it but then you're gonna go away.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Saturday, podcasting is different, isn't it? Yes. We are more like it's more fluffy. Yeah, fun. We
Leya:have fun. Yeah, I've been here for a couple of weeks. So sorry, everyone, but back
Reverend Ben Cooper:you back.
Leya:I am back. I'm so grateful to be back. Take that
Reverend Ben Cooper:said that back for good.
Leya:Whatever you say. I didn't mean it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What we're looking at today,
Leya:we are looking at Money. Money. Money, money, money, money.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Money in the Bible. Yeah.
Leya:It's all about the money. Money. Money. Yeah. Okay. For
Reverend Ben Cooper:the past.
Leya:Yeah. So basically, you did a sermon on a Sunday, which was really good. And it was, I think you said that your money perish with you. Or your What was it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:called? Remember? It was locked down.
Leya:That was Sunday. It was last Sunday for a
Reverend Ben Cooper:different reason. The Book of Acts. Yeah, it was what was in Acts and we was looking at Simon the sorcerer. And that's what that was about. But he was talking about
Leya:now as Matthew I'm pretty sure it was from Matthew. And Matthew as well didn't Yeah. He said in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I remember now what would perish with you? Yeah, but that that was that was some of the songs.
Leya:I've got it at 820
Reverend Ben Cooper:pega. I got a little bit right. Yeah, lockdown head,
Leya:you got a lot, right. He got a lot right going on. So Peter said unto him, that money perish with thee because thou has thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. There
Reverend Ben Cooper:you go, bang, you can't buy Jesus,
Leya:you can't buy Jesus man. And when I heard it, little bells rang in my head. Oh, my goodness,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can't buy the gift of God.
Leya:Not only that, but the Bible. How up today is it and how like 2000 years ago, written
Reverend Ben Cooper:that that was but goes back even further on that without going into the Old Testament. When you think about Simon the sorcerer, he see the disciple laying on of hands and he thought I love some of that. You can't buy Jesus you can
Leya:you can give us for
Reverend Ben Cooper:you. The gift is for a you can't buy it. Jesus, you can't buy that money has no power in the kingdom of God whatsoever. Exactly.
Leya:And another thing that you talk about quite often in your sermons is the pharaohs Big Macs. McDonald's so badly Baba fry up this morning. So you know, Saturday. And yet another thing you talk about quite a lot is that you you can't serve more than one God. We did that as well in their commandments as well. And I have a big thing about money being a God that we serve. In our day today.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think it's when we say a foreign God, it is so easy to lift someone up like that and not realized that you're lifting it up. Because it's part of culture. It's part of life, but when you put it in front of God, God of Israel, yeah. Then it becomes a god. Exactly. Anything that goes in front of a little
Leya:bit sort of that I've got it will people's faces on him. You know, I mean, no.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes. card. No. cash. Okay. cash. Cash. Yeah.
Leya:No, it's not paper anymore. Yeah, terrible. Yeah. But only it's the stuff that feels like it will go on forever, but only God's love endures forever.
Reverend Ben Cooper:To theologically date for me, oh, sorry.
Leya:I'm sorry. So what I've done is I've gone through the the Holy bibley. And I've looked at different the different ways that they referenced money in the Bible, and basically is yet they say to you can't your money perish review? Yeah, we read that one. You can't worship two gods.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So let me just clear that. Let me just tell you that one shouldn't should mess about right. So when when we look in Acts that were the scripture that was in and we look at some of the sorcerer, he, he was a social, he was a magic man. He was practicing witchcraft, all that razzmatazz that go to that? And then Peter comes along and he lays the hands upon those that are I'm going to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So as he lays the hands on, and as he prays, Simon, the sorcerer thinks that he can buy the gift for money. And that's where we get a lot of prosperity preaching. Where our transatlantic friends love to shout out. I'll send you a prayer cloth if you send me $10. Yeah, the Lord has told me, the Lord has told me that the next 50 people that send me 1000 pounds, you are going to be blessed. Yeah.
Leya:Or money in other countries. Yeah, I mean, we've seen it. I've seen videos of it where they, yeah, we've been bags. Yeah. run into the front with money, and then some replace it. Somebody else takes it out. And then another bin bag comes forward with money. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:go, 3 million people sitting in Yeah. Where does that go? It goes to pastor. Yeah, it goes to the system. It goes to the wrong places.
Leya:And no wonder he says, I now need to build a church with 10 million people in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes. Because so you got we've got to be so careful with it. Because it's it's such a powerful thing money. We need it to trade. But then we might go Hang on a moment. I live by faith, The just shall live by faith. Yeah. So what we've got to be careful of is that we don't make money. A God. That is the be all the end all. It's above God of Israel. But it's so easy to get the trappings of materialism, it's so easy to fall into credit card debt to fall into overdraft. They're so easy to, as we know, live above our means when you look at the debt in the UK at the moment. My dinner, Rona.
Leya:And I've heard that one before. Doing a Rona
Reverend Ben Cooper:chapter. That is, you know, we are in so much debt as a nation and the world the debt clock, we should have picked it up on the iPad. Well.
Leya:But the thing that amazes me is that people think that they've got debt holidays. At the moment. Yeah, it's not. It's not because I looked it up. And what happens is you accrue interest. Yeah. Well, that time you on that holiday, so you actually end up burning in more. The bank, the bank, the bank, the bank? The banking manager, right?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Like, then winning all the time, aren't they? Yeah, they're winning all the time. The keeper of the winning all the time. Yeah. So just bouncing back to Simon. So he sees he sees and thinks cool outside, I'll offer him some cash. And Peter said, You can't buy the gift of God, my your money perish with you. You cannot buy anything you love that you can't. So powerful isn't when you look at that and think you can't buy it the gift that God has given a gift, and you can't buy it. And as I said, you know about school and ministries and yeah, come and join us. And after 12 weeks, we'll make you an apostle after 12 weeks human evangelist give us 10 grand five grand, you can't buy it. Now. God is the one that ordains God is the one that annoys God is the one that gives the gift. And that's why it's so important.
Leya:That's what I was looking at this morning in a square club was that he gave us the gift of faith. And by giving us the gift of faith is saved us. Yeah. And it's a god given given gift. Well, that's not that's not money.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can't buy a can it's not money to buy eternity. You can't you know, Elon Musk was he was
Leya:well, you can buy a trillion perfume if you want to. But it's not the same thing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:A friend Elon Musk was he worth 5 trillion sight crazy like that. You can't buy a heartbeat. You can't buy one breath of life. No. Where does breath come from comes from God.
Leya:Number one,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Saudi.
Leya:Well, you look at him who is just trying to accrue wealth and accrue wealth and accrue wealth. Is that the right word? accrue a crewneck. jumper, I don't know. And then
Reverend Ben Cooper:he's trying to roll with
Leya:somebody else like the Microsoft guy whose name I can't remember now. Bill Gates, Bill Gates, who gave away all of his money. Yeah, said I'm just gonna live off a tiny amount of money that I've got, which is more than enough money for me to live on and you to live on? Yeah, give me give away all my money. I'm gonna give it all away so that we can try and end child poverty. Wow, what I mean, I'm not enough, as much as a fool to think that that's the end of it. I mean, he's obviously still got a fair bit $1 Yeah, exactly. And he's a very great advertisement for him to be doing that. But at the end of the day, that's kind of a nice kind of millionaire for me. It's not failure. Just saying if I if I were a sweatshop, if there were jobs in a sweatshop. I'd be picking Bill Gates over a lawn.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah.
Leya:The same one that got
Reverend Ben Cooper:a little bit of taste
Leya:and what are the one of the Scriptures that I really like, which relates to what we're talking about is Matthew 624?
Reverend Ben Cooper:And what does it say?
Leya:No one can serve two masters. either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. Now this is the punch in line here,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I love God or Mammon, No, you cannot serve both God, for God can't do this off the back end. And remember,
Leya:you are. I mean, it amazes me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So very clearly in the scriptures. straightaway, we find references that God will not be worshipped by any other means. But number one, you have to worship Him. He is the daddy, he literally is
Leya:really proud of about this church is that you don't beg for tithes. You don't every now and then, there has ever been. And then there's a port moment where you send a message and you say, um, we really don't want to ask this, but we have to. We can't keep the lights on in the church, we're in trouble. Yeah, it's cold. But when you consider that the amount that you selflessly do for the community without asking for a penny for that. I think it's rather amazing, really. And it's one of the things I'm really proud of, of the church. And when I first started coming to church, I had a friend that said to me, You can't go there, because I want to clear was somebody from Nigeria and the Nigerian church? He's a very nice Berry.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah.
Leya:You can look it up. I'm not. I'm not generalizing. Yeah. And he was saying, you know, people in Nigeria, they go to check it, but dressed up in their best dresses, and they go to church, and that's a sign of their wealth, that they go, and they who's the father, consider the front of the front of the front of the seat, who's the one that can show off the most, who's the one that can give the most money into the tides? It's all about status, which is what money is all about. And one of the things that I really love about this church is not like that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's not at all we really try not to talk about it. If I mentioned money, oh my god, there's a problem. Oh, no, no, no, we
Leya:don't ever tell.
Reverend Ben Cooper:me No, this
Leya:time we've ever had a proper discussion about money. I find it quite untrue to talk about money. No, it's such a funny
Reverend Ben Cooper:subject. Find it uncomfortable. Yes, I find it really difficult. Yeah, I find it really difficult. But,
Leya:but at the same time, this is the dichotomy of our lives is that we need money to survive
Reverend Ben Cooper:to live right.
Leya:We need money to live. Yes, yeah. We don't live for money. No, we live for God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We live for God. But it's so easy to get in the trappings of the world, though, isn't it to get off or go down DFS sign out pay six months. We've all done it will land on the sofa at night thinking I've got to pay for this little bad boy in six months.
Leya:And I think people do. I don't think people even consider it. They got to pay for it. I think just suddenly the bill arrives and they go, Oh, God, please help me back. Please help me and how much stress and God to say help me with this. helped me with this God because I've
Reverend Ben Cooper:debt is beyond my means that when you think about debt days, that destroys you, it rolls you. Oh, it's just absolutely just, it's such a trap, isn't it? It's
Leya:the root of all evil.
Reverend Ben Cooper:For the love of money, yeah,
Leya:that's what they say, Oh, is that? Is it actually in the Bible? That they look at me like I'm nuts. No, because I looked up every single thing that I could find that said about money. And I couldn't find I've got it for the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. That's one Timothy 610. Just so you know, it is true this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pens, misread that, say pawns. Then I thought well, Oh,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's interesting, because let's read that again. Let's read that from from the kick point.
Leya:For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It's through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, so you can start off well, you can start off well, and you can look at that as ministry as well. Or you could look at that. It's not I'm preaching and teaching and suddenly the prosperity gospel starts to shine. And you start to name it and claim it and you start Oh, you got Tell you what, there is such a fine line, following Christ. Yeah, fine line Bible obviously makes it very clear that there is a narrow way a very narrow way. Yeah. The way to destruction is broad. Yeah, the way to life is narrow,
Leya:narrow, eloquently put barf. Nice. Well, thank
Reverend Ben Cooper:you very much. That's
Leya:it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's my swanley speech
Leya:solely education on education.
Reverend Ben Cooper:My postcode is br 878
Leya:she was gonna send you notice now
Reverend Ben Cooper:on a limb check out your Bendigo gun crime watch. There is
Leya:prosperity a
Reverend Ben Cooper:buddy
Leya:of mine, a bloke from the
Reverend Ben Cooper:plaster when I
Leya:when we were little, yeah, money was the thing, wasn't it? No. In fact, you're Britain. That's when I was raised. Yeah. And it was like, not unusual to see people on the television with wads of cash in the pub. You could see him on a Saturday. That's right. So cash. Yeah, flicking through our pay for that. generosity thing, actually, is a status thing. I'd rather have status in my heart I'd ever rather have the status of a swollen heart filled with love.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's all about following Jesus. It's all about following Jesus. You know, it's interesting, isn't it? And I want to skip on a little bit. You've probably got this one column where Christ enters into the synagogue and he flicks over the table of the money. That one
Leya:you haven't got that one. But I was thinking of it when you last spoke. This is one of the all kinds of evils isn't it? Is that all kinds of evils that money? Because if you haven't got money, you want it? That's the greed
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's the fine line.
Leya:If you haven't got money you want it then you'll cover it in your neighbor. Oh,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I like that Mercedes on your drive. Really? Jesus I don't really want it Lord give me a skateboard. But if it's possible bless me with a no car.
Leya:Mine's like got rubber bands. No one with rubber bands and then
Reverend Ben Cooper:is is is I don't like using the word getting balanced because that that feels very worldly to me.
Leya:feels a bit yoga.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It feels it Yeah. Don't talk about that. Can't do you can't do that. Then against the wall. I tried to conduct spiritual reasons. One guy there today
Leya:No, no. So hard as well, though. I get more balanced just by like standing on my two feet and going god I love
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, exactly. Right. Just do some exercise down on your, on your two feet. Lift your hands and praise the Lord.
Leya:Yeah, baby, that's good enough, and then put them down and then lift them up. That's the best way to get rid of your bingo wings. And then once you've done that, don't get
Reverend Ben Cooper:bogged down on that. Yeah. So are they
Leya:gonna pay money for that?
Reverend Ben Cooper:That'd be great way to trade in it. We don't have advertising. I mean kebab, but
Leya:that's what they used to do before the Industrial Revolution and profit.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I have a trade if we'd
Leya:never had that. Things would be nice. That would be like my little family units. Everybody would trade in what they had. I mean, there were a lot of poor people. I'm not going to deny that. But there was obviously also a bit of spread of
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, you
Leya:know, I mean, rather than having one person or in a factory that had children working in children as young as nine
Reverend Ben Cooper:still goes on
Leya:dining, but yeah. sweatshops.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, sweatshop. squit. Oh, yeah.
Leya:But yeah, it's just that that's all over the world in it. And I think if we were more like Deborah said, it's all about community. And she said there was no community left anymore and that she was she wanted to fight for and I feel like money is the thing that stole our community. from us.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It stuck it stolen with family, it stolen that from children, moms from children, husbands from wives wives stolen all the way around, because we are told we are brought up in a culture where materialism is rammed upon us.
Leya:Yeah. What have you got?
Reverend Ben Cooper:What have you got? This is what I've got. Well,
Leya:yeah, yeah, GOT GOT GOT
Reverend Ben Cooper:up got harsh. And it's, you know what, I love gadgets. I love gadgets. I love gadgets, and I've got to be so careful, huh? Just look around the room. Praise the Lord. repenting the name of Jesus. But I can't not that word someone's gonna have to remind us we wouldn't. Nice new word that we can use for balance. Well, can we use librium it's too big for Swan Lake. It can't have that air. Here. Sorry. It's difficult. coughing is about balance is about
Leya:is about balance. It's about knowing that you gotta have money to pay your rent. And yet, food not giving everything away about taxes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh,
Leya:I think I think you've got all of your ethics on one side. And you're this is how I'm going to survive on the hour. God keeps calling
Reverend Ben Cooper:emails calling for it.
Leya:And your ethics includes your faith and your Christianity and yet, this is how I'm going to treat the world and then your money is this so I'm gonna pay my way in the world. And it's not what I would not have balanced without I'd rather it was like, a 20
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I do. The problem is, is the world is all about sex, drugs, and rock and roll well, to a degree how human a minute, right? So we get educated we look around, you can have cars you can have nice homes and it's always pay later pay later. And there comes a point where you will you are really going to pay for it. There comes a point where he really asked, but it's so easy. He was not so much now but go back four or five years. You could just go shopping with no money in your in your pockets, but buy everything just buy. Don't worry, sir sign here be fine. Don't worry. Yeah, you know, and you sign on the dotted line,
Leya:a naught percent mortgage at one point. You could go in and
Reverend Ben Cooper:stuff these mortgage companies have caused the problem with families, you know, so then we say to ourselves, it's not all my fault. I blame it on. It's been it's been often too easy. is just like the fruit in the garden, isn't it?
Leya:Yeah. Yeah. Can I read you something from proverbs? Yeah. It says do not wear yourself out to get rich. Come on. Do not trust your own cleverness. This is what we're talking about. The word is
Reverend Ben Cooper:the Scripture is just
Leya:cast, but a glance at riches and they had gone for where they should, for they will surely sprout wings and fly off to the sky like an eagle. This is what I was amazed at. This is why I thought we could do a podcast on money. It's that the Bible speaks about money in such a modern way. And I'm always amazed by the way that the Bible speaks to us
Reverend Ben Cooper:right now. So relevant. Yeah. So relevant. speaks
Leya:to me doesn't just speak to the culture
Reverend Ben Cooper:that the country it talks to the globe. Yeah, it talks it individually. It talks us corporately individually, it just speaks it just because it's so we don't need to go out we get that the way
Leya:that it talks about the nitty gritty of life like money, like in it which is in Exodus, it says don't if you lend something to somebody don't charge interest. I'm sure that's one of the things it says.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So when you lend you expect not to get it back you give just give the something powerful in giving.
Leya:If you lend money to any of my people with who is poor You shall not be like a moneylender team and you shall not exempt interest from him. Okay, so Exodus 20 to 25
Reverend Ben Cooper:Are you are you listening to that Barker's?
Leya:Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:are you listening to that network? Are you listening to that loan shark? Are you listening to that? So don't charge me interest anymore?
Leya:It talks about that but then it also talks about grace being sufficient. That's enough. But then it also talks about the kingdom of God Yeah. For that so it's easy for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God that's one of the most famous ones
Reverend Ben Cooper:great checks on it so you take the richest pedals on the planet that people is the people is you think about this for a minute right okay. Got so much money so much money column spend it just trillions of it I don't understand that kind of when I forgot our chairman pocket I'm rich.
Leya:Can you imagine having that much money and not wanting to give it away? 10 will get you a stellar are tourists and the kebabs
Reverend Ben Cooper:that is a wild night.
Leya:No, no.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what you got you got say the richest people in the world? What have we got all in common? When we breathed the last we will not squeeze anything in that casket. That's to
Leya:dust baby.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Ashes to ashes dust to dust. So you think about that? Am I got a cat and a dog on the zoo? Yeah.
Leya:I just don't. Something Why do you not want to share it? Like oh, if I've got if I've watched something good on the telly, or what have you seen this? If I've got a boxer chocolates. I want to share it with you money.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Money is different because what money does money gives you status covering is covered and it gives you a sense of power. When you got money, you can well, you can do anything.
Leya:We just talked about the lottery. My mom calls it the lottery law. She's from Yorkshire who say, if you won 168 million pounds on the lottery, yeah. How could you possibly spend that in your lifetime?
Reverend Ben Cooper:are gone by McDonald's franchise shout
Leya:out often. I mean, how could you spend that in your lifetime? and How could your children's been in a lifetime? At least unless you were gonna do that machine and biological spaceship? Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you know, I mean, how much you Sandra and 16
Leya:68 million
Reverend Ben Cooper:type he went and bought a house for under 1000 500,000. Cars each to know what you could give that good item pretty quick.
Leya:You could but you
Reverend Ben Cooper:think what you could do?
Leya:You could live off of the interest interest that Yeah, he could, which obviously, Exeter says you shouldn't get tied up. But you could live off the you could live off the profits of that, and then give a lot away. Whenever I speak to people, whenever I mean, we've all spoken to people what to do if you want to not train and loads of people, so they'd give it to charity. But how many people actually do give to charity? Give the lot? Never how many people actually do yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wouldn't it be great if you had that sort of money for how you could regenerate and put that money into Swanley? And you could it's how much you could do if someone was generous. I mean, the area where I live I think caught me if you had a sniffer that you what you what you could do. I know. But then you got to be careful. You think Hang on a minute. Who wouldn't be safe with that bit of money? Would I be the pert? I wouldn't? I'd rather honestly I'm being really honest. I'd rather just have a temporary pocket
Leya:give a livable about
Reverend Ben Cooper:life. This is such a I don't know the guys and girls that are listening out there. But
Leya:it sounds it sounds like
Reverend Ben Cooper:it could really sounds
Leya:like we're talking rubbish. Because the reality will go Shut up. If you hear that he won that. Yeah, if you won that you would keep it. I've always said what I'd like
Reverend Ben Cooper:to do is when you see the studio Yeah. Yeah.
Leya:And also I'd like to regenerate Dartford fear.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The so you're putting into community they're not Yeah. But but so often our goodness that you got so careful, isn't it? What you could you got to be careful. The Scripture says don't don't follow the world wine women and song you guys, you know, I mean, if you got much money,
Leya:how much you would give to people food wise.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I just actually want to finish the conversation because I know because what I mean is I'm spending it already. And I'm thinking yeah, we could do this do that.
Leya:10 I would say before we get off on this random tangent was I like the fact that the Bible talks about money in the tiny amount of the pennies that you've got. And then it also talks about the kingdom of God in relation to money. Yeah, so that's the thing I do love about the Bible that is spanning
Reverend Ben Cooper:his spanning of time dimensions, everything. It spans absolutely everything. And it's it's really important you know, and the bob talks about being a bit being a good steward of money being wise how you spend it, how you how you accumulate it, you know, people are there are many Christians, men and women that are gifted in business that are earning great amount of money but they're doing great things with the money so it's not it's not that it's not wrong to be a rich believer putting it it's what do you do when you've got that and he's got steel your God? Yeah, that that's the tricky thing.
Leya:But do you go and buy, like, in a Renaissance and all that kind of thing. What they used to do was go and buy themselves a nice gold crucifix for the church. Buy nice, gold plated pew. That's got a nice outfit for the Pope.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Do you know what I mean? That's kind of it wrong there.
Leya:So it's trying to buy your way into heaven, then?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's like, when you think when you think how much rich the church is. The church certain establishments, how much money they got for the property, even just the art they own? Yeah. pieces of art that they own. Yeah. And then you look outside their walls, and you've got people begging. Yeah. That belong to that establishment
Leya:now. That's what I can't I can't get hope that does. I mean, I'm not bashing. I'm not bashing Catholics. But the fact that the pope charges people to buy tickets to go and see him to have a private order. In swinging, and we were saying, This is the difference between,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you know where they're going to bounce.
Leya:The Son of God. Yeah. And God's representative on earth is the Son of God walked out among his people went out to see them, dressed in justice clothes, Justice clothes, didn't take food, didn't take an iPad didn't ever like his headphones, in ear headphones, nothing that stuff. And yet the pope is like, you come and see me. And you're gonna pay to come and see me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But that that's the same with you can get that with a lot of don't go down that road but I just mentioned it very slightly you can get that with. In a world of Christian music, you get that with some preachers, you your pain, your pain, you got to be really careful. You know, certain preachers around the world, 100 of them with aircraft off the rack.
Leya:In America, they do the concerts daily, they do concerts, and they're like, weekly or daily. Yeah. And people buy tickets around a block and go and see them. Yeah, to see their bands, these Christian bands playing. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I can understand that.
Leya:It is it baffled
Reverend Ben Cooper:me. Yeah, you got all that you got all that stuff. It's just that and then you've got you've got a preacher out there in America at the moment that that God God told him that he's gonna be the first billionaire preacher. Yeah, that is so against the Scripture. Yeah. What did Jesus say? Come on, follow me. Leave everything choppy nets. Drop your nets. Leave your knight trainers. Leave your aircraft. Leave your Harley davidsons leave your white teeth. Leave your fake tan.
Leya:Jesus on the line again. Sorry.
Reverend Ben Cooper:got wrong. Okay. The prosperity gospel is so dangerous, isn't it? Money is great. But equally dangerous. Yeah,
Leya:I think it's wise,
Reverend Ben Cooper:wise. A good steward of the money, rock, I've got my wages, what do I do what is essential? And then we come back to the Scriptures, my God shall supply all money to convey his riches in glory and riches in glory, his and then that script to the ground really spoke about where where Christ came in, and he flicked over the tables and the money changes. You've turned my house into a den of thieves and robbers. But my ass should be called the house of prayer. And there's a lot of ministries out there charging for prayer. So you're going to the deliverance ministry world and things like that. I've heard it people have come to me taught and I know I see it. I know where it goes on. You talk about deliverance. And then someone says, I've got this I need to be delivered. Okay. The ministry says come come to us. But before we pray, or once we paid, can you slip us some cash? It goes on? Does the scripture said Simon the sorcerer, you can't buy a gift. You can't buy a prayer. You can't buy it. Yeah, anything? Yeah, absolutely amazes me is that you talk about you talk about the paper, you talk about how money comes into being and where we know where paper and all that comes from the seed was planted in the ground God. God owns everything. It's not
Leya:paper anymore. But paper. How is it? How can you manage something that you can't hold? Yeah, true. So Mark, for 19. This is a good one. But the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth, and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, the word making it unfruitful. That's what you're saying. Because that's what you're saying. And the thing is, I mean, when we come into church on a Sunday, when we used to be able to come into church on a Sunday, and man, the band used to sing, shop, no payment was seen Margaret at the back with her mom's raised up
Reverend Ben Cooper:pros and go loving it, seeing people's expression of God and
Leya:seeing the smile on the person sitting next to me and
Reverend Ben Cooper:voice about this is what it's about
Leya:swelling. And prayer is about being together and praying for me. Yeah, in a church. Yeah. I mean, you pray every day anyway, because you have that constant conversation with God. But yeah, praying together. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:being together. Being in unity. Yeah. That is that is priceless, isn't it? You can't buy that you can't buy, buy that. Money is a is an interesting, it's an interesting word that the money money. What would I do? If I just had skipped the hotswap? What would you do? certainly wouldn't be where are they? I don't want to go down that road because it's a dangerous road to explore, really, as an individual. I have you know, so back in the script to them. Okay. All right, we got that one God's telling
Leya:you that he wants you to read Eclair his crazy St. Clair sisters.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What's that one? Kasha bread upon the one what's its return?
Leya:Whoever loves money never enough ever loves wealth is never satisfied with their income
Reverend Ben Cooper:Porsche. Read that Ken.
Leya:Hello, this is what I don't understand. Why is this? It seems like it was written today this morning. But it's Ecclesiastes sees how many years ago was that written?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I reckon 233 3000 maybe 3000 years
Leya:ago. My my Ecclesiastes days Echo, Mr. stretches, Eric wrote, in 510. Whoever loves money, never has enough. Whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with their income.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's a showstopper in it, isn't it? That's just a bonus. That's just absolutely just done that. The Word of God is just on point. It speaks directly to the spirit. It is so powerful, so supernatural, that the word art was the word of God cause of course, it just speaks very clearly it directs it corrects it rebukes it heals it delivers. It tells us so much.
Leya:Is there another character or person or thing in the Bible that is spoken about as much as money and the warning against loving money
Reverend Ben Cooper:is quite interesting. Because when we hear about it, it's normally from the wrong side. It's all prosperity. Like the Bible. I'm talking about I'm talking about from the prosperity preaching so yeah, it's it's completely the polar opposite to what we're looking at. Yeah, just just for this hour, but
Leya:God obviously knows everything in our lives and our world because we created us but God obviously knew that this is going to be humanity's biggest hang up.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because if you've got a lot a lot of it and you are got a lot of money, got a lot of money loaned money. Wonga. kashia Roni. You will he opens the gateway to a lot of trouble. You've got the power. Yeah, you've got power over people. But you've got no power whatsoever really, because it's not got no eternal value. That's the thing. Talk about the widow's mite. He talked about the rich man. You talk about all that sort of stuff. You know it money will not get you into eternity you cannot buy it.
Leya:People think that Jesus has Sermon on the Mount one that says Blessed are the poor for they shall inherit the world. Yeah. A lot of people is that right? Yeah. A lot of people think that that is trying to say to people be poor. Now you your place Stay where you are because you're going to so are considered to be sorted out in the end. So if you're poor, don't complain. Just carry on. And I think that is the way that in throughout history. Yeah, that's how a lot of rich people in landowners and such in churches said to people but Puritans just you know, deal with you a lot. Yeah, I guess that's what you got. God's gonna love you in the end. So don't worry about it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's
Leya:but that's not true is it? That's not what that means. It just came to me it just counts
Reverend Ben Cooper:here. It's blessing of those that poor in spirit you know, it's talking about the lame the sick those that are not in Christ so much more to get from that. But I think what we got to explore at the minute if we can just hold fire where where the scripture makes it very clear to cast your bread upon the waters and watch its return. Okay, bread money cut the cost hit the prosperity gospel, we'll take them to type of scriptures and, and tell you that God wants you to be rich. But when you look at the way Christ lived his life and his family. Was he rich? was they never know. What was he was a carpenter carpenter. He was a carpenter. And when they when they laid him to rest Where did they put him in a Baroque term? Yeah. The term he own nothing. Yeah, he might own a wall or transit van but he didn't own I
Leya:don't think even cable today will be a queue and get one of those really, really Black and Decker.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, yeah. We were serious. Five minutes. Second, chips die. But when you look at the life of Christ, right, let's let's bring this this randomness back up to bring a clear understanding to this Jesus The Word became flesh and made it thrilling among us.
Leya:I love him. You know, I think he's such a lovely bloke.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He owns the world. And he owns everything. Yeah. But he did not. He did not use that in any way shape. And he could have just looked at a tree and it would have just money would have pinged on it. Yeah. Do not. I mean, it's what the devil what it said. I mean, it's, He is the creator of heaven and earth. Yeah. He owns everything. Cattle on 1000 cattle.
Leya:offer him everything.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Of course he did. He said, I'll
Leya:give you money switches and stuff, give you everything.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've got the keys, you know, corresponds to look to him for
Leya:dinner. I made the bank Shut up.
Reverend Ben Cooper:My trouble You're giving me? Exactly. Your days are numbered. Sorry.
Leya:I love that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's money is, is important. But it's not important. It gives power but the wrong type of power. You know, when you look at these third world, nations, and you look at that, and you think, oh, so much poverty and then you and you've got this nation giving, giving, giving uncountable money into aid and all that was never wrong with that. No, not it's not not about that. I'm not knocking that. But what I'm saying is it doesn't get to the point of where it should go to. So when it's given and then you look at the leaders, they're driving around and lovely cars living in palaces and all that. It's it's wrong. So then you've got the nation that is starving, looking for grain, all that and then the leaders are just fine suits cars. It money brings corruption. Yeah, it brings fear. It it does. I don't think it buys happiness does it? Now it's only God. It can only be good.
Leya:The problem is in our society. It does bring things that make you happy. But only in the temporary. It's very fleeting and buy you a nice gadget. It can buy you a nice day. It can buy you a nice that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. But what has the
Leya:society that we live in? Yeah, that's the way that we have had to live. But you
Reverend Ben Cooper:can hear people out there listening going, hang on a minute. That's the scripture says where you're where your heart is. That's where your treasure is. Who?
Leya:That's nice. I like that. Where are you? Where's,
Reverend Ben Cooper:where's my heart? My heart is for God.
Leya:Yeah. And it stopped myself from singing. I left my heart in San Francisco then sorry. No.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Money. Money is a very powerful thing. If you can't isn't interesting as well. You can't even buy it. You can't buy a heartbeat. You can't buy a heartbeat you cannot buy life you cannot buy your own mortality.
Leya:Money can't buy you love. It can't buy not just a Beatles song. It's the truth. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes. giggy
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, where they come from.
Leya:Can I read you a bit of Hebrews 13? Five. You're like this one.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Okay, the teabag
Leya:I'm in a PJ tips. teabags tip that you could buy over a million pounds. And do you think that you would need to know of Loch Ness? Like the LOC to be able to make enough tea to use up teabags?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Is this a serious question now? Oh, come
Leya:on. Hebrews 35. Keep your life free from the love of money and be content with what you have
Reverend Ben Cooper:the love of? Yeah, so he has said I will never leave you nor forsake you. So I need money to live and to trade and to do that. That's great. That's fine. That's okay. But once I start loving it, loving it, and start worshipping it and start lifting it up and start using it wrongly, not been a good steward yet what God has placed. I think in my
Leya:pathway, that's what we were saying about it. Not that I don't want to use the balance word because it sounds a bit younger. Like we say the whole thing of keeping two things in mind. Which is a sort of like a synonym for balance, I suppose. But they so it's the thing of keeping your life free from the love of money and keeping the love of God in your heart. So that I think that little nice bit of Hebrews there, sort of like I said, it's got me that one Yeah, I just I just really like the way the Bible talks about money. And I think it shows our God entirely knows the spirit of humanity, and knows that we will be tempted by the not by the apple, but by the money. And the fact that we haven't got money cash anymore in our hands. Yeah. Everything's cashless these days into cash or somewhere. Yeah, that's, that is control of another
Reverend Ben Cooper:different podcast altogether isn't a joke.
Leya:Anybody can turn off your money at any point, and you would have no power over that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And also, along with that, you can you know, it tracks you so easily to show you the pattern of your life.
Leya:But you can't keep track of it. No, you can't keep track nice smoke tracks out for your hand. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's it. We are living in n times. One World Government off Saturday, San Diego chips day.
Leya:Yeah, yeah, we live in in Saturday times. 30 days. Yeah. The only end times I'm thinking about is the end of my fry up today, because it's Saturday. I'm sorry, I bring you back. Because we're about to get proper serious. We could keep talking forever. Because I've missed I've missed podcasts. Now you've been absent, in absence been bit poorly in that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So how do we deal with money as a Christian? When you look at it go into the Old Testament? You look at certain ones that a lot of money. You know, there was very wealthy God, God gave him that and you know, he can? It's not the amount you have. It's how much you put that above God. Yeah. It's not the amount. You can be the richest Christian on Earth. As long as you put God first. It's that right way round
Leya:that, that an expression of an expression of love of God is charity, and love
Reverend Ben Cooper:giving? Yeah, then we can have different quite a sticky area, doesn't it? Because bounces is better to give than to receive. So sitting on that amount of money, the church, it's better to give it and to receive it.
Leya:expression of love is to give it so do
Reverend Ben Cooper:we hold money, then these organizations hold it. Adjusting case moment? Why? Why is the church so rich?
Leya:I don't know. About Me Pope bashing earlier. I just want to say I've got nothing against the Catholic Church, cause we're not saying that what I believe in is what they believe in. It's a bit weird. I do think it's a good way
Reverend Ben Cooper:to look at any establishment. Yeah. Any establishment? I know there's upkeep in the building, we get all that?
Leya:Yeah, because it happens. It happens in all denominations
Reverend Ben Cooper:in every denomination. It happens across the board of the church. Yeah, you can't get away from me if
Leya:I could say a word. Yes, you know, denominations,
Reverend Ben Cooper:or church or denomination? denominations. Okay. I can't
Leya:really say denominations, but demand a minimum and and and
Reverend Ben Cooper:educated enough to remember that word. So that's the question I have for myself very rhetorical question. Why is the church so rich? Why is it you put all the wealth of the church
Leya:because people have been trying to buy their way into heaven. And then the church go, but then they change capital T, capital city co are like a bit of money and a lot more wine and a lot of food. And I like this, and I like that. So I'm gonna and that's it. That's it. That is my stereotypical view of the church, including the Church of England, which was started by a king,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you know, a king and not a king
Leya:here. And the head of the Church of England is a queen. You know, I mean, so I think there is a and when you see them on the telly, they're always wearing golden boarded clothes and rings, and it's like, kissing the bishop's ring, and all that kind of thing. And it's all a bit like, what are you doing? Why have you got all these trappings of wealth around you? I mean, they get a little bit used to it. And that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:the problem. Yeah, we get used to that lifestyle. Yeah. And you live to the lifestyle of the money that will bring you which is a trapping,
Leya:but then you've got those other churches that are like we're just trying to pay for a new roof.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it goes.
Leya:There's literally walk around in this there's
Reverend Ben Cooper:such a difference isn't there? There's such a difference where some establishments have just got untold amounts sitting in the bank just sitting there accumulating more and more not to
Leya:go to a cathedral or go to a church and I see I like to see things being made to look holy and you know, Like a big, big church I think the architecture is
Reverend Ben Cooper:there's nothing wrong with that. But
Leya:if I went in there and I saw them sitting on the buckets of cash
Reverend Ben Cooper:with
Leya:proper solid gold crucifixes, well somebody outside is begging on Oh yeah, that's gonna that's gonna
Reverend Ben Cooper:jar me that really get that gets me out. I've struggled to understand. Yeah, I get we got to pay electric or get we got to pay wages, I get all that sort of stuff but they're they're still excess over and above which is accumulating more and more and more excess. It's the excess.
Leya:You've got one golden crucifix. Why do you need 10? Why'd you need nine of those to be in a vault? It should No, I mean, and not only that, but Jesus died on a wooden cross.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly.
Leya:Your honor in your honor in God with something that actually he has said is detestable in his eyes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So when I study Christ ology when I look at the life of Christ,
Leya:first ology I love that
Reverend Ben Cooper:as a Saturday afternoon, that is the
Leya:name of an album. My first album is going to be called Christ ology.
Reverend Ben Cooper:When you study the life of Jesus, baby j, baby Jesus. What did his mom place him in? a crib just like now what so he he came into this world and he was a stallion didn't ever Merc ever like Didn't they roll out a red carpet when he went to Jerusalem? No
Leya:pom poms?
Reverend Ben Cooper:It didn't ever. Okay, exactly. Oh, so yeah, so
Leya:have a golden cup? No. And I'll tell you for why. Because James, was it Pinot Grigio?
Reverend Ben Cooper:It was what did he turn James
Leya:into wine yet? James says your gold and silver are corroded. That corrosion will testify against you and your flashlight fire. I know that's in the middle. says Now listen, you rich people. I just pointed at him very Abengoa. I was in character. So now listen, you rich people weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted and most have eaten your clothes. Look, your Gucci handbag is no more so. Say that. You're golden silver corroded. The corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look, the wages you fail to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Come on. There you go. Exactly what we're saying. The cities
Leya:of the harvesters have reached is of sorry, the cries. Yeah, the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one. Who was not opposing you? Sorry, but it was known enough
Reverend Ben Cooper:to stop and go wall is big.
Leya:That is that's James five plus James 5126. And I think that is like Yeah, man. That's just says it all done. It just says it. Your wealth has rallied and motivating your clients from dust
Reverend Ben Cooper:to dust. Again, we bring up that word it has no eternal value. It has no no forbearance on my mortality, I cannot buy life I cannot. And just quickly just speaking about Christ again. He was placed in a manger yet he had they had no trappings whatsoever yet.
Leya:God could have said, Okay, I'm gonna give you to a king or I'm gonna give you to a priest or I'm gonna give you to a robot. But now I'm not I'm going to give you two two normal people young people with nothing and you're going to learn how to be a human being so he come exactly he came into the world and he was laid in a manger and then he went out
Reverend Ben Cooper:and a wooden cross and I was gonna refer to the the board
Leya:yeah borrowed everything was borrowed everything was borrowed everything you might do and mend is the king of can make to amend but he owns the world and and shares in sticky back plastic I'm sorry oh my god Dickey back plastic is Saturday. I got to be a little bit reverent. I've done it. I've done it. That's a mighty
Reverend Ben Cooper:dragon chips.
Leya:Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Who's gonna pay?
Leya:I ain't got no money. I get it on take
Reverend Ben Cooper:one thing less careful with Why
Leya:do you think leave it? Why do you think that money is called bread
Reverend Ben Cooper:And is because it by bread alone but by every word that proceeds at the mouth of God, I
Leya:love it when you do that. It is it this thing of cost your bread on the water, Give us this day our daily bread. So people therefore see it as something that as is as important as the food we eat, the air that we breathe, the money that we have in our pockets,
Reverend Ben Cooper:difficult subject to the net. It's really, it's really difficult to get your head around.
Leya:I could talk for three hours on it. We know that I'm sorry. songs have been written about money have been written about money. And how many times has it saved money in the Bible?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I don't know. Anyone wants to email me it's just that Yeah, yeah. Spit me out. Yeah, yeah. Rich law. app.com. Give me word. He's really interested in it. You know, you look at the world. We're in debt. The whole world is in debt. Is what
Leya:freaks me out. Yeah. I kept asking my mom when I was about 16. Yeah, but who do we owe the money to? debt? You know, but who who? Is it God's bank?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think we finish on the Scripture. God, one price. One sacrifice once and for all, he's paid the price in full Boris, cancel my debt. In the name of Jesus. Amen. You know, when you think about that, all seriousness, who do we owe the money to? Yeah, I know, I know what the answers are going to be. But we got to finish. What do you think about
Leya:the paper on the next planet?
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's the people on the next planet. It's the shippers. It's just thought, if we could see behind the curtains.
Leya:That's another thing. It's the cones.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Illuminati.
Leya:Yeah, exactly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Sonic
Leya:conspiracy theories that say, if you believe in conspiracy theories, then you're insane. And you're like, Well, no, because we do know that you meet and you have got lots of money. And you do own so much wealth that I think they worked out in January. And by the third week of January, the top 1% of the richest people in the country earned more than anybody else would earn for the whole year.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He can't get your head around. It can't Yeah, you can't get your head around that when you think. But the church is very rich, is and when I say the church, I'm afraid to say that tars all of us with the same brush, when actually we're not. Yeah, certain areas of the church are just accumulating wealth of the wealth of the world. Yeah. And then we just go around the corner and we see people on Universal Credit. We see people at the town, you know,
Leya:they project
Reverend Ben Cooper:People's Bank Account. I can't I can't get I can't get them anyway.
Leya:No, I just gotta say this. The charity, the charity that I love is when I go into supermarkets, and I see the people that haven't got a lot. And they buy extra and give to the food banks, as well. Yeah, because I think it's that it's like the the woman that the woman that I met a little tiny
Reverend Ben Cooper:bit and she knows more than anyone else gave more gave more. That's another subject. Maybe we'll look at that.
Leya:And on that one.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Charity, charity. charity. Charity is Larry.
Leya:Sappho and charity.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The Scriptures when we got we got to learn this. Can we go on forever? We just want to say thank you to everyone. On this Saturday, Saturday, Saturday, thank you.
Leya:It used to be shopping they just say you know, every day is a shopping day every day. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Amazon Come on. We just want to say thank you so much, everyone for listening to us today. Now want to carry on Come on, let's get to the cat. Shark. So the egg and chips. You've been listening to layer and you've been listening to myself, Reverend Ben Cooper, and we just want to say May God bless you wherever you are around the world. We thank you so much. You know we laugh and joke but it's important laughter is medicine to the soul. It is I'm sorry if you think that we may have been flippant, but we don't really mean to be we just got a small Islamic house
Leya:which is is which is
Reverend Ben Cooper:Is it is it is my god bless you wherever you are. Please share everything that we're doing here in alien church in Swanley. If you need to need to know anything or you need to ask any questions please just email in but share everything we do. And we just want to say thank you for listening to us on the podcasting platforms. buzzsprout
Leya:Facebook, Spotify, Spotify, iTunes, I Heart
Reverend Ben Cooper:Radio chains, such change Jesus Jones, let's call it a day. Have a great afternoon. God bless you in the mighty name of Jesus Christ. Amen.