Good morning and welcome. Good morning and welcome. You're joining us here in Elim church as we just gathered around the mics for just a little bit of a chinwag. Today, it's me, it's Reverend Benjamin Leonard Cooper. And it's my lovely friend. And I must say that I mean, my heart is my good friend. I look up to him so much. I respect him. Well, you have to only five foot seven.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. Okay, I retract that may
Reverend Ben Cooper:retract everything I said, you're listening to us, Simon Pinchbeck. And myself here in Elim churches, we just gathered around the mics for our podcast this morning. And we just pray you're all well, and everything is good in your life. Wherever you are, Simon, thanks for traveling scrapes and scratches. Really breaking laws.
Simon Pinchbeck:So did you know what the words got? We got to get the word out. Come on. We got to get the word. And I'm so pleased to use your real name today. Ben. You know, Chris, these people out there. On your case in
Reverend Ben Cooper:people out there my case I feel like I've got machine guns from church father coming over friendly fire. They call it they call it friendly. Friendly fire from friendly ministers. Yeah. Come on, it's good to be here. It's great to be here. And I would just want to say this one that nothing. Nothing we see is all from the spirit. It really is. You know, it really is. Solid. I know we ever we really do sometimes mess about but what is really clear with you, my friend is that you do love Jesus. Whatever way you know it. People listened to us and they are listened to us all over the place. And we thank God for the listeners and that but I really have to press this over. You know, Simon as a great men's ministry, real man for Christ. And when we talk in real we're talking real we're not talking about lunchtime pack a Christian a can of coke chat around about tanks and cars and darts. And we're talking about dealing with porn, we're talking about dealing with addictions, we're talking about not being the man that you should be called. And there's so many ministries and so much going on out there. That's just stroking the back of men to say, Yeah, you're right, live as you live. It's dying spiritually. And spiritually. And it's, it's huge at the moment, Ben, you know, because
Simon Pinchbeck:guys find themselves isolated, they find themselves alone. And, you know, unless you press into a loaded term starting out here, you you're going to be washed away, you're going to be burned out.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Can we take that? Can we use that that scripture just from a moment when you say, what are we building on?
Simon Pinchbeck:What are we building on?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Am I building on the upon the rock or are building on on sand, because the scripture makes it really clear then if I build on sand when the storms come, the rains beat against that house is going to fall. And what what really come alive in my spirit, when I really got into that text, it says you will fall with a great crash. We're seeing a great crash in
Simon Pinchbeck:the great crash. Yeah, and we're seeing, you know, we're seeing men who just, they don't know where to go, they don't know who to turn. So we've spoke about hope. We spoke about trust. We spoke about the Word of God, we spoke about the scriptures which say the continuing follow Jesus and get into the word. But if you're in somewhere that's not driving, if you're not in a fellowship with, with another couple of fellows who are holding you up, if you're not in something on this, this is a this is a real test in time for you. It's a testing time for everybody. It's a time of stretching, isn't it? And we spoke about the scriptures and the Word of God we spoke about the written word bring the logos, but the the spoken word is the Rhema. So unless you know that stuff, and you get into it and you into it on a daily basis and getting revelation from now Holy Spirit, man, you know you are you're on that sand and you are gonna get washed away is that is that is life or death and, and the Bible tells us is life or death. And the Bible tells us about the narrow road and a wide run pan narrows it, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've suddenly realized it's very, very narrow it because almost a type road. I can't do it, but I can with him. What do you call to follow him? It's like we're talking about, we're talking about men because obviously this is what we do here. And there's podcasts of that. And then we say to ourselves, well, why is it the simple fact that we're in this position is because the church hasn't preached the real gospel of Jesus Christ. That's that's where it comes back to we can't say that it has when you've got the issue with the same sex stuff going on in any denominator. If any denomination draws a line and says that's okay and accepts the Adam and Steve preaching, and they're claiming to pulpits and preaching that that is no church of Jesus Christ, it can only be the Church of Satan, whoever denomination you are, wherever you are, if you are compromising Genesis, and you are bringing Darwinism in. So you've got so many areas, and then replacement theology. You know, we're all that, if you're compromising God's word, you cannot be in between it, you're over for Christ, or you're against him. So if you've not got a firm leadership, then the sheep and you're the shepherd, yes. Where are the sheep going? They follow you to the pen, or they're going over the cliff. And that's where they're going. So you'd lead them over the cliff, man, if you've got a leader that is battling the other side, from the pulpit and blatantly happily doing that, practicing, practicing. Practicing that what the world says is Oh, what the world says is okay, and what the leaders of the denomination So, okay, where in the Scripture, will you find that? That is all right, you cannot,
Simon Pinchbeck:you can't so what you're doing, you're saying, well, that's the Bible, we'll take little bits out of that, but we're gonna make up our own stuff. Because the times have moved on where we're, yeah, we're in we're in modern times. Yeah, we have to think out of societies. So what you're doing, you're giving in to society's trends.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly.
Simon Pinchbeck:And so before long, where's the next compromise? Where's the next compromise? is compromised? down the line? Look, look where we sell that. Wow. So when you take free things, marriage, abortion, creation, yeah. And then and then if you don't get creation, right, in your understanding of God said, Let there be light. And that that's that's it for me because that's the word God said, Let there be light. And there was creation came if I start trying to compromise that and I'm coming against his word, but I know there are many ministers in pulpit preaching against creation. I'll give you tell you a story. I do a lot of talks to men, men's groups and I was up in in love of stuff you know, last topics East you can get in the glorious sunrise and all that but I was up there. And we were doing a men's morning and I was talking about I got up there and started talking about the the fall and about creation and about our our citing when he was Lucifer at the time called cast out. One of the Anglican priest is Vic as soon as soon as I started talking about eco on the left. He got up and left. Thank
Reverend Ben Cooper:God for that. Yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:I don't know. I don't know if he's money had run out on capaco. Yeah, but you know, that, you know, and, and I had a friend, good friend who was going down the line of becoming a vicar. Yeah. And once they say you have to sit in front of a few people, one person in particular and ask a few questions. And then this lady said to him, where do you stand on on, on creation or evolution? He said, Well, I'm firmly in the creation camp. And I believe in Adam and Eve. And she said, Well, I'll stop there. I'll stop the interview there, then. And thank you very much.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I've heard that too. That is so real.
Simon Pinchbeck:So there we go. right at the base level. Yeah. We're ignoring the Bible. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that brings us to the point of saying, Now we know why we're talking about men. So it will always be about that this morning, is why men can feel the way they feel because the gospel hasn't preached, conviction hasn't been preached about living in sin. So adultery, affairs, pornography, gambling, drinking, and all of that. We could find a scripture and we could manipulate that. That's okay. That's fine. Grace covers everything. But what we're finding is now and I thank God for the day that Boris turned the key on the church because that broke so much. Now we are sitting in a position a prophetic window where I us we not corporately have a chance to get myself right with Jesus. But I think it's it's massive Ben and I think is turning to each individual really who they're following. Yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:you're following Jesus in the in the Bible. Yeah. Are you following the prophets of Baal? Yes, yeah. And believe me that there's a huge sway towards the province of Bob because, yeah, what they preach is, it's nice to be here in it. It's lovely makes me Jesus loves you, and everything's fine. But he don't build your foundation on a rock solid word and truth of the Bible.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think what also has happened Simon, the church has been in a trance, a trance, the satanic trance is a big thing to say.
Simon Pinchbeck:When I was barfing against the bow,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's the rhythm it's the laugh die It's the floating about attitude. It's there's no conviction of sin. We're in this I don't like to use the word revival but explains it you look at certain ministers around the world where they said revival and cancer is for no this is rubbish. That's not that's not fact. It's not right that we have been with you. We have been spun a yarn, what do you build in? A following? On, on on miracles and witchcraft on different spirits? You know, we love talking about that.
Simon Pinchbeck:Tell me a bit.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Tell me a bit. Right,
Simon Pinchbeck:but it's the truth.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's the truth. There isn't you can't get away that we have paganism in church. We have witchcraft in
Simon Pinchbeck:the imagery is everywhere
Reverend Ben Cooper:you go a certain Cathedral, you go certain churches, medieval churches, and you'll find other gods carved in the carvings around the building. It's it's everywhere. Yeah, you've in your look at some religions, especially Catholicism, who really raised the profile of Miriam now. Yeah, and she has She's the queen of the Queen of Heaven. Well, that is the queen of the pagan. That's right. Yeah. You know, she's she's really replaced. Jesus is not so important. Goodness, it make me sweat talking about this stuff this morning. And
Simon Pinchbeck:here's the deal. You know, years years ago, when we had got some good preaching, when we had got some good foundation and good leadership from from some great men of God, then whatever happened in the world or the government, we had that fundamentally to fall back on. Yes, broken now. It's gone. It's gone. Completely.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We've got motivational speakers that will give you a adrenaline rush and get the chemicals flowing in the mind and the head and you can do it Simon. Oh, you can do this. Yeah, yeah, we've got there all over the place. But it bounces back again to the to the man in Christ of why do I feel the way I feel? Why is this so much a struggle? We understand that there will always be a struggle because when you follow Christ there is but there's been an unnecessary struggle because the gospel of Jesus Christ hasn't been preached there's been a there's been a four digit is it been a different Jesus? Well, what you've got and you've got a complete if you look at the church and say, it's a big ship, it's ridiculous. is ridiculous. So what happens is the waves of the world is just going with him. Let's go with Let's go. Oh, yeah, there's no sound is there? No. LG Hey, this guy,
Simon Pinchbeck:let's go, let's go with that. You know, abortion? Well, let's talk about it. No, it's wrong. Listen, what does the Bible say? What does the scripture saying? And, and consequently, what you've got, you've got men who become then double minded. Because they, they look at one thing, and then they've been told and then another thing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So if you look at the different denominations we got, each denomination is pulling something out of what we call the Word of God. And it looked different over in that camp, two that camp, so as men, so if we've got leaders of the denomination that are going down the wrong road and compromising with number 10 and allowing number 10, to dictate the spiritual life of that church, it's no spiritual. Well, it is a spiritual life. Because whatever the leaders are of the nation if they are for God, praise God, if they're not for the gospel of Jesus Christ, it's satanic. You can't have an in between layer, your Eva for Jesus, or for Lucifer is a doozy. If you sit on the fence, the devil loves the fence. So you're in trouble. I just got tonsillitis, isn't it? It can't speak anymore because it's tired. Why?
Simon Pinchbeck:Because it's an equally yoked. Yes. With all this satanic Yes, stuff. You know, we just been talking a little bit out there, you know, and if you if you grab onto the charitable status and go that one, then if your church is a charity, then you're in with the equal of that you You sign in, and that could be a charity. You could have the church of Islam, that could be a charity, you could have pro abortion charities, you've so often come under the commission, you come under that one, you you're yoked with all that stuff, so and what so what the judges don't realize, Listen, don't get me wrong that people have go down this route. Because not out of that because they think it's the right thing to do. They've been told it's a right to do.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And that's the issue. We've been told it's the right thing to do. But when you're under when you're under a leadership of a nation that doesn't know what data week is, and what shows I'm going to wear a day when you've got no one getting in any position of leadership and saying this is what we're doing. Yes, yeah. Yeah. I'm not being I'm not not lifting him up or putting on anything. Putin. He said, Sorry, the nation jumps. You know, that just whatever. Yeah, whatever way you look at that. I know, that's gonna make some errors fly that sort of thing to say, but what I'm just trying to say is, we need clear leadership.
Simon Pinchbeck:What have you looked at Trump that there was a clear leadership there, and the was definitely for the people in the and, and, and all of a sudden, there's been a shift. And all of a sudden, instead of standing by what, you know, everyone's jumping on the other fella. And if you look at his policies, yeah, I don't see, you know, how can you be a spirit full believer and support abortion? I don't see I can't not see that. Then. You know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:so with that with that abortion issue, is that we understand things happen, where medically we get that but what we're talking about it's government's are given it freely. That's that's the issue we get, we understand that certain things happen. Medically, whatever happens down that in that medical field, where decisions have got to be made, that that's a different, that's a different ballgame altogether. But when the government and the world is saying, go and live the dream, do what you want to do. There's no consequences for your actions. just destroy that life when that life is perfectly hope, perfectly fine. Nothing and you've got governments around the world controlling how many children you can have in your household. But
Simon Pinchbeck:What message does that send out? Oh, gosh, what messages send out that that, you know, will, will allow that? Yeah. And where's the next step, you know, will allow this some will allow that. All the all the great Christian barriers have been just trodden over? Yeah. And there's only a few now standing up and saying, you know, fundamentally, fundamentally, we're standing on the Bible, fundamentally, we're standing on the Word of God, there's only a few. And I think that's how God really wants it. Because I think that's the shake up. That is like it's the wheat from the chaff, isn't it? Definitely, it's saying, it's saying who are you gonna follow? When
Reverend Ben Cooper:the key in the church was turn by number 10. And the world leaders? I absolutely hate a place where awful was gone. When that key was turn, shop clothes, clothes, clothes. I thought this is it could doesn't exist? Oh, stupid man. Am I What a stupid thought. Because I was relying on religion, I was relying on the pattern of a Sunday I was relying on it was the rhythm of the drum. Yeah. And I was going along with the cooperated, the cooperation church going along with the corporate side going along with the business model. Not not because I set that up, because I wanted that, but because that was the pattern that has been set out for generations and generations, and it becomes very robotic. But when the key really turned when I think about that, now, that was freedom. Well, freedom of
Simon Pinchbeck:you know, we can talk about that, you know, as, as was, was that our God imagined his church to be now. It wasn't called that you go to church, and you say you go to church on a Sunday. It's what you're doing for the rest of the week. It's isn't it? It's been it's been turned in. And I think the enemies turn it in to an attraction or model where we come into church on a Sunday. Yeah, you know, Aronoff, it was a bit too long in it. So it's an hour and a half. Or we might hear a bit a word, we walk out, we've forgotten what we've heard as soon as you walk out a door, but it's a tick the box I've done that now. I've done. I've done I've done and then and maybe I'll go to a Bible study in a week or a prayer You know, whatever, but the rest of the time now, but what we're realizing now, Ben, is that churches wherever we are, yeah, churches, wherever we are,
Reverend Ben Cooper:wherever we are, is, and that his church, his church, wherever I am.
Simon Pinchbeck:I mean, we've been in the pre meeting this morning, you know, you're telling me about people's lives have been changed. Yeah, through what you guys are doing here through through your food bank for the stuff that's happening through what God is doing. In this in this church. men's lives have been changed. Men have been pulled back on the precipice. Yeah, yeah. And believe me, you know, what, what the government is not showing us is the suicide figures is the is the amount of people that are killing themselves and their families because of, of lockdown because of the isolation. And because obviously, businesses just go into the wall and stuff isn't so bad.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And it's almost been put in a position onto a man's shoulders that you can't really talk about your emotions. You can't talk about how you feel when it's a thing. You know, I mean, you can't you can't express that I'm feeling rubbish today. I feel quite down today. I can't seem to grab the hem of Jesus garment today. And if you look, the church has made a culture of, you've got to look right. But don't talk about how you feel. If you tell me about your things. I'm talking about. I'm talking about your lusts in this don't talk about your pornography addiction. Don't Don't talk about I had for Kansas, terrible weekend. And we gene
Simon Pinchbeck:we have we had 15. So fellas, come on a second mate and get a real man for Christ. Every single one of them praise God is saying exactly what you said. They they're drawn into a church environment where everything's got to be great.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've got to come in with if you come in with a left hand hand wife trotting with me. looking great. You
Simon Pinchbeck:want to get down to London and you know, go I love HD video. It's was my mother church for many years. And I love the stuff that went on there. But I used to see it. I used to go for a coffee, you know, get down there. Oh, yeah. I've seen these families come in. They're arguing. They're, you know, they're kids. They're sharing their kids. And they're This is in the cost of coffee across the run. Yeah, in the church is wonderful, we're blessed. And if they weren't a great week, we really love them to bless that
Reverend Ben Cooper:the best thing that's ever happened to me get back to Costa Rica. Yeah, yeah. So are you talking to me? Like That is the truth, but that is the truth.
Simon Pinchbeck:And so why do we wear a different clothing in church? Because the church does not allow us to be me? Because it's the image that needs to be portrayed. Yeah. And when you've when you've written that away some masking tape actors or actresses in church playing at this show. Yeah. When you got brothers sitting in the congregation going? This is not saving me from this. desperate. Yeah, this chasm. Oh, my goodness, I'm hanging on and all I'm hearing about and what does what did the medical profession what are the doctors say? You just said it this morning for another for another tablet that's out down your throat for for another empty? Empty depression? Yeah, right. Oh, just raised the power of it. You know, some extra money in the farmers pocket, taking out a tablet will give you this will give you that. And thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you very much. On the next one. The next one. Yeah. Yeah, no, we're not saying that. Now, Heidi coopervision is not carried. But you know, I just don't know how to deal with with why because we all human beings, and no human being has the answer. The only answer is in Christ Jesus, the problems we've got our spiritual issues. So yeah, the flesh might not deal with a spiritual issue. Now you can't. We've said many times we said it in this book. You cannot beat the flesh in the flesh, you cannot do it. When the flesh is so powerful,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can't you cannot The only way that you will deal with depression, worry, fear, addictions, whatever it may be this stuff where we put that we suppress the only way we will deal with it is by speaking to Jesus. It's it is Look, it's simple, isn't it? Because he can't make it difficult is let's say you more Jesus, we just said that we say every religion makes it more me. Lesser Jesus. What can you say? Can you save me? Simply because the word hasn't been preached?
Simon Pinchbeck:What religion do what religion does it It puts heavy, heavy shackles on you and save you you got to do this. You've got Do stick bodies, rules and regulations. You the lawdoesn't fit here. You can't speak in tongues. You're not saved. Yeah, no. Well, you're not tithing you're not saved. General. Yeah. What they do soon as what does this say in the Bible is go back to the time. Jesus says, You travel under miles to avert someone and then you slap them with 4400 rules and regulations. So you, you all of a sudden you you're feeling like you're not good enough, not good enough. And here's the deal so so then that that that comes out in if you don't know the word if you don't know truly the Word of God, you don't know that romans eight one tells you there's no condemnation, condemnation for those are in Christ Jesus. So all of a sudden, am I forgiven?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Is his forgiveness is beautiful, because my past the power of forgiveness, the power of repentance, the power of to speak into Jesus, you know, when he died on that cross, everything was now to the to the cross of Calvary free now's of love now to the cross. Yeah, my history, my now and my future. Three times in my life, historical stuff. present as I live as I speak right now, and what lies ahead of me three nails of love. Now, Christ to that cross, I am forgiven. It doesn't matter what the world says. It doesn't matter about what my wife says it doesn't matter about my child says, doesn't matter about my gram, it doesn't matter what anybody says about me, it doesn't matter. What about the organization's I work in a new IRA, it doesn't matter what anybody says to me when I get called home, and I die. And this body just hits the deck, right? You can have all the most sound. So when I just want to make sure when I get upstairs, he says to me, well done good and faithful servant. Because the world words is a big thing here.
Simon Pinchbeck:He's a big fan. And and so what happens is, if you're not careful, you know, you come to the come to faith, and you understand that there's beginners, all of a sudden, we've got an enemy out there and wants to shoot some guilt on you. Exactly. But you forgive him. But you know, that past is so great, is it that he wants you to linger in that path? Even if you don't realize like not you did you know that you've been washed, cleanse through the blood of Christ, his sins have gone away. Just one scripture is Hebrews 16 1016. It says, This is the covenant I will make with them after those days says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts. And in their minds, I will write them, then he adds their sins and their lawless deeds, I will remember no more. Now, where there is remission of these there is no longer an offering to sin. He says, so he's saying, He's saying right there, confess your sins, and they're gone, they're gone.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So when I confess a sin, it deals with it there. And then but then I've got to be careful that I don't get the natural pull of the flesh to draw me back into that. Sometimes we get, could I say, completely delivered from the tendency of the flesh. But sometimes we might wrestle with that, all of the rest of our lives. It's only I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. So. So although I'm saved and blood washed and sanctified, and I know my name is stamped in the Lambs Book, and now I'm a believer in Christ. So if I repent of something, that that the arm fight in sin, and I've dealt with that, it doesn't mean to say that that is going to disappear for the rest of my life. Because Satan uses vehicles he uses when I'm in vehicle to use his situations he uses people use things around us to try and trap us into an area. So just because I might be delivered from that doesn't mean to say that the flesh won't want to go back to that, because the flesh is weak, but the spirit is willing. So as a man in Christ, or a woman in Christ, when you really realize who you are in Christ, that's when a battle starts.
Simon Pinchbeck:Massive. I mean, you're right is the identity thing. And the thing is sometimes, you know, these things you're talking about, they become strongholds in our life, and they've been built up over over a number of years. And the and, and we know God can take them out just like that. But what he wants and we discussed this in I think, in a previous podcast, what he wants, he wants you to come to him and you're taking it down brick by brick. Why? Because then you've there's no pride in that. There's no us standing up and say I've got no it's you're still so an inter Lord, you don't chop a tree down with one chop or the axe. stuff going on throughout the world now that the gods trying to bring down that has been built up over 100 years. Yeah, it doesn't happen. It has to be done in by in God's timing. And so what he wants you to keep pressing into him, keep being that humility, that humbleness that and, and you're right. Keep your head on a swivel because this, especially when you're a bit tired this stuff creeps in stuff presses your buttons, there'll be stuff that you'll think, Oh, yeah, I'm good with that. Yeah and all of a sudden out of the blue Something happened you think well where did that come from?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Or where did that come from? Where did that come from? So there is nothing new under the sun. nothing new under the sun. So there is nothing outside of God's framework eyesight nothing out of his his his timing or is planning. So the so when you look at where Christ was tempted in in the wilderness, the scripture says that the devil left him from opportune time or opportune time. So if Christ was tempted, how many more times Am I gonna be? No? Yeah, I'm easy father. And here we go. Because Christ and his dad 40 days and 40 nights without eating or drinking. You know, man, I can't go. I can't go off our biscuits. I've got more pictures on my social media feed of McDonald's and kebabs anything? Cannot? Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, we're, we're weak, you have to, you have to come to that situation that in our flesh, we're as weak as anything. And that's a good place to be,
Simon Pinchbeck:it's a great place to be because then it becomes the interview. And then, as we discussed, it's less of you, but more of Jesus because you'll never get through it with Jesus,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can't roadmap yourself to be right. You can't, he can't spread yourself, spreadsheet yourself. To crush you cannot say, Okay, I'm going to sort this I have to come to Christ footstool, lay everything out and say, Lord, I need you to help me. Because I've been under a ministry, I've been in a church, I've been in a denomination that hasn't been preaching the gospel correctly. And now I find myself in a very difficult position. Because the governments are telling me this, a denomination over there is telling me that that one's telling me that half of mine is telling me this and that. So when so when you look across the spectrum of the church, no wonder we are in a spiritual crisis. Yeah, no wonder we we are in a place of as the psalmist writes, a dry place. We are spiritually dry, where the church hasn't delivered. And I represent the church and I've repenting, and I'm making sure that I get that right. And I'm sorry for the messages that are broke that are not, and was not a what God was telling me to do. And I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, to everybody where I've just brought a message that will tickle your ears and I what this is what I want you to have but but from this lockdown to now, I've suddenly started to realize, I've got to preach. I've got to, I've got to speak. And word is driving me. Yeah. And it doesn't matter whether it's doesn't matter for 10 minutes or half an hour without nothing to lose. You've got you've got nothing else to say. And I cannot be a people pleaser. No. Because what is you know, arrogant is it that that is that is a realization of that I have. I will meet Christ one day, and I have to stay on. It frightens me as well. It frightens me to know that when when I go, I'm going to stand in front of the King of glory. And you think to yourself, oh my god, everyone is going to meet their maker. You know, and the church has been challenged. If my brothers and sisters that preach the gospel, please don't compromise the Word of God. He cannot do it because you can't compromise. Compromise a word of God. What are you doing? You're you're taking people to the dark side. You cannot compromise. God you can't approach it. You got to teach it. And don't be Don't be denomination or places don't be people pleasers, because that denomination is not going to stand with you on the day. Not your wife, your brothers and sisters. They're not going to love my family, all that sort of stuff. But they will not save me
Simon Pinchbeck:when you're sitting across the table and then eyes are burning into you. And that's where we caught up the fearful reverence for God and man that's gone into society. The fear of God has gone in society. There's no fear of God, there's no fear. But there's this do you think, Ben, I'm gonna ask you this question? Do you think we're still born with a conscience, we still born with a little voice inside inside us. We still know what's right or wrong,
Reverend Ben Cooper:we still do. But you've got to go back to Genesis, Genesis and creation. God said to Adam before Eve ever showed up on the scene, do not touch that. If you touch that, if you go to the center of that tree, and you take off that, you will die, so mortality was already in the garden. But as we've said, and as we need the repress this, Adam heard the voice of God, he was in the presence of God, he was in God's garden, God's glory and power. I cannot articulate that and get that over, I cannot find the word. So he had the voice of God. Eve comes out of his side, we get the theological and the biblical description of that. So then suddenly, the two of them are in this predicament of what voice do I follow? And we are following the wrong voice. But we know the voice when we've got that. Yeah. With God, that God is honest and around us. So is the thing. We listen to lucifers voice more, do you think people are born bad? God silent. That's the because I seen it from as a police officer and seeing you know, some of the not terrible deprived things that some people do. I don't I think people are born with. I think it's one step at a time. I think what I think Yeah, and you get an each step. If you're not, in answering that conscience, you do something else to cover that conscience up. So I this is, this is why I say this, is that when we are born, yeah. To a certain age, whatever that may, age may be that we think about that. God is with us, then the power of free will comes in. I don't believe everyone is born bad. Because look at Judas Iscariot. He was you could say he was predestined that to be someone to do the 30 pieces of silver. But he wasn't born bad. The spirit, Lucifer and that we are used as a vehicle a vehicle for God or a vehicle for Lucifer. Yeah. Now, what's really important to get press this one is once you are born, I'm not talking about religion. Once you are a believer, yeah, Satan gone again, you're filled with God. There's no way in any any position in my body that I can have 5050 but what I have is freewill. So God is with me, I'm filled with the power of God, Satan cannot live in me anymore. But then you come on to Judas. That's a different scenario. But that was only one that was chosen for that. So as a believer, I believe in the word, I am filled to the full measure of His glory, but then freewill comes into being. So we're so that Lucifer uses the outside to try and control my inside. But I have the choice to listen to the voice of God as odd as they was in the garden. But the flesh so the flesh was listens more because the flesh is weak.
Simon Pinchbeck:So if you're not, if you're not a born again, believer, you're going to be listen to the flesh all the time, all the time. And if you sometimes what we see it when people slip into addictions, people speak to all sorts of deprived stuff. It generally starts with one step one, one, and then it just what it always starts with one step, and then it just just accelerates,
Reverend Ben Cooper:God gives us a way out. Scripture says there is a way out
Simon Pinchbeck:but the conscience is continually saying that's wrong, that's wrong. But you don't want to hear it because then you become seared to that conscience because you're doing more and more stuff to blit right that Yeah, and and the enemy will destroy you. As a born again, believer. There is stuff sometimes that that that people feel guilty of and they try and cover that up. By doing works. They try and do more and more and more and more and more ministry. They driven I've been with men yeah of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I know the feeling. And I can tend to do that a little bit now. Because if I come off the gas, I have to deal and look
Simon Pinchbeck:and there's a main you have to look at yourself. And I've been with with guys who are happy. You're driven, so driven, you're so almost an obsession. Yeah, to keep speaking to keep good doing a meeting to keep doing, and you'd get in the van. And afterwards, they'd go, do you not feel cleansed from doing that meeting? been forgiven? I know, I've got a relationship with you, Scott. I don't need to keep. So they're doing it. Their motive is slightly different. Yeah. To what? what God's saying God's saying it, you know, and what happens is, things get neglected. Your family get neglected, your other stuff gets neglected. Why? Because you're so driven. Because there's something not right in your life. You have an absolutely, as you said, taking that time to address that. And sorted out because it's too painful,
Reverend Ben Cooper:too painful, is too painful. And I've been in that more. I've been in that position more times than I can count of driven, driven, driven, driven, driven if I stopped if I stopped if I stopped if I stopped if I stopped. I've got to deal with not I've got to deal with me, but I've got to face me in the mirror in the mirror. Yeah. And I've got to say, Jesus, I recommend Am I but so it becomes easier to do another thing to keep driving to keep drive or something else and yeah, Paul Samuelson Yeah. But you were all on a journey. We're all on a journey of learning, of understanding of not taking any boxes, but literally learning to understand what is your calling, but we've discussed a quarter and it's getting getting more like Jesus every day. So where does guilt come from? guilt don't come from guilt and come from God does it? It's impossible. It don't come from I've forgiven and washed in the blood. I'm cleansed. I'm forgiven. I'm forgiven before I was even bomb. predestination Ephesians chapter one. Verse the Batman about verse. Let me let you check that out. Don't hold me to that. talks about print. We are predestined. So here's the thing, right? I know some pretty awful things in the past, and I heard a lot of people but I know I was forgetting I know I'm forgiven. And I Don't linger in Gretna. Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, I Don't linger on that stuff. He sent me a couple of times up the backside, because you'll never escape from your past. You
Reverend Ben Cooper:never escape your past. You never escape it.
Simon Pinchbeck:But we're told to be born again. JOHN free free says we need to be born again. And I truly believe I'm born again and get closer to the Father free cheese. But a couple of times, you know, people have come up to me and gone. Oh, yeah. You remember? Yeah. And Victims of Crime have said, I can't forgive. I can't forgive. Yeah, you know, because there's no forgiveness unless you're in Christ Jesus. You know, things to catch you up, but
Reverend Ben Cooper:they don't catch up. But you cannot dwell on them things.
Simon Pinchbeck:God says, you know, you've you've you've confessed them. They're out of the way we're praise God, we've moved on. And is the thing. We always say no, he God loves us so much that He gave His only Son.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Hello,
Simon Pinchbeck:that that. So we don't have to stand around in guilt. We don't have to worry. You know, there's their analogy and they, you know, got berries, our sins in the deepest ocean, he doesn't want to fishing around and pull them back up. I've been having a pity party because because what we've done, he wants you to be free. You said it. He wants us to live in
Reverend Ben Cooper:freedom. We are free. You should know the truth and the truth will set you free. You said also as well as the scripture says, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So what after free, we have to bear I'm guilty. until until we come to the cross and to accept Jesus Christ. And then all our sins are washed away and so not exactly right. So I can be guilt free. I can feel refreshed, I can feel at peace. But what happens is the devil uses the vehicle of humanity to come up to me. Ben, do you remember? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're never usually you can't get away from that. So then then I have a battle of going, hang on. That was now to the cross. You can talk about me as much as you like, Yeah, but I'm free. I'm free. I'm not that person. Big. Why? Because I'm a new creation in Christ. Two Corinthians 570. I'm a new creation in Christ. I see the devil as a fisherman fishing on the side is throwing it out all the time the hook is turning out all the time. We find out all the time is relentless. But what what a gift you've just said day you know, you've come to the cross. Your sin is now to the cross. Your guilt is now to the cross with You've given us is now? Yes. And this is a free gift you don't have to pay for it in several installments of 100 pound a month. No that is a free one sacrifice one. God, can I can I just reference our friend, Simon associate, pay to light the hands on course and he prayed for the power of God to descend. What did that little silent sorcerer say? And much and I'll give you some money for that gift. Yeah, Peter went leave at some you cannot buy the gift of God let your money perish with you. It's a gift it's a gift so it doesn't matter how much money I have. It doesn't matter if I'm the richest person in the world world I cannot buy the gift that God has given it's a choice it's a choice to accept it yet or turn away and go now I'm okay I'm living in I can live in that's a really interesting thing that you said there because that brings into predestination we can say no for as long as we want it we can be a Jonah we can refuse. But there comes a point when you when I asked we have been chosen and predestination we meet yet we meet that our Heavenly Father earthly us comes to a point when our debts like soul, isn't it? So so so why do you persecute me he was pretty destined to fall at that moment at that hour from that horse. And that's where God met him. At that point time he was you know, so we can kick back a throwback, we can be the biggest atheist in the world. You can try and pull it all to pieces. But when predestination that, that clock that arm of God's clock ticks that certain hour bank, you can't resist him, but you've got still got so then you still got a choice that brings it to free will. Yeah, you still got a choice. And you know, I when I hear that, you know, I'm amongst guys all the time. And I you know, yeah, I was I was this I was that then, you know, it was a road to Damascus experience. And I've gone I said it was praying for you. Oh, yeah, I've got my old granny plan for me aren't he was probably oil fam. You will never gonna escape that you know that.
Simon Pinchbeck:Sometimes? destination colon? Yeah, especially Afro Caribbean feathers, you know, they've got their, their old army back in, in the in prescient.
Reverend Ben Cooper:pushpay. Wonderful. And, you know, so it was it doesn't matter how many strip clubs you go into. It doesn't matter how much porn you look at that and how much you drink yourself to a position of oblivion. Doesn't matter how many times you sniff, take drugs, whatever you want. Doesn't matter what your history was. If you are cold, if you are chosen, you are chosen. And this is the big thing. Prayer is massive. And it's huge.
Simon Pinchbeck:So, you know, both of my sons had problems with drugs, praise God, they've got out of that. Amen. And I go around the country when I can and speak to many parents, grandparents, relatives that have their kids have gone down the same route. Yeah, they say to me, what can I do? Well, there's only one answer is just pray. You can, you can stop them. You can I can remember what I'm in the room. Well, I can remember one night, my boy in his room, and, and all of a sudden, Range Rover pulls up outside and he's like a different person. He's upset. He's broken the doors down as dead before I can get out. He's in the car. He's off. He's gone to do to do what he's gonna do. And and praise the Lord, he you know, he, you know, he he was he was praying. It was prayer on your knees praying, Lord. Well, I don't know what to do with these guys praying for God gets your foot pray outside, right? So to to help that predestination needs prayer. You know, don't give up, never give up. Never give up. Because, you know, if you've got a wife or a husband or a son or a daughter, you can't keep praying because you know, you the day that they come back and say, yeah, this is it. And what is prayer? Prayer is just speaking to Jesus relationship. That's what we've been told.
Reverend Ben Cooper:This is easy. I don't need to come to church to pray. I can be driving. I can be laying in the bath. Yeah, I mean, I can. I'm just talking to God. I'm talking. Help me, help me learn. I love you to your father. Thank you for saving me. Thank you. Thank you, Lord, that I have a roof over my head. Thank you, Lord. I can flick a switch. And I've got electric. Thank you, Father that I've got family around me. I've got john can infer the things that you've got even though you might be frustrated with things that you got. Yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:you'd look at the if you made a list a list of the blessings as against the stuff that you're struggling with the battles the blessings will always outweigh the power Come on Jesus
Reverend Ben Cooper:Allah Allah you could use that just because you know you can
Simon Pinchbeck:I mean, you can't take your next breath with the Lord say nice, okay, I have another cup of Kingdom coffee or that girl saying it's okay. And on that point. God bless. We'll be back in a little while we, there's always so much to talk
Reverend Ben Cooper:And today we are just generally chatting about. and just speaking. And we'd always thank you so much for listening. Wherever you are around the world, we just pray that you share everything out. You know, Simon has got great ministry running with as real men for Christ. He's accessible on every level. You know, his faces up in every police station. So you'll find Simon, wherever you need to find him. Real met all joking aside room for Christ. And we thank him so much for joining us today for flying in from Texas. On Oh, sorry, coming in from around the corner. You've been listening to Simon pinchbeck even listening to Reverend Ben Cooper, Bishop, Mr. Bishop, gosh, Don't give me that title or the name of Jesus. God bless you and strengthen you wherever you are, please share this out you can catch us on Spotify buzzsprout you know, Alexa, all that sort of stuff. You. This is just the final word I think we need to say brothers and sisters, wherever you are. Be encouraged because Jesus loves you, your blood was sanctified. Doesn't matter what's going on in your life. You know, just give everything to Jesus. We just pray that you will just find peace, in the everlasting arms of the Father, very mentored. Amen. Simon Good luck closing prayer.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, we'll just close in a prayer and if you're listening to this, what we want to say everyone who's listening to the sound of my voice, if you if you listen to this, we believe that spirit of God speaking through us so Amen. So we want to give you the opportunity now that to to come to the to God if you're feeling guilty about anything, if you're if you're there's a sin that's reoccurring in your heart, and you don't know the Lord Jesus, we want to give you an opportunity now, right now to bring that to the foot of the cross that can be dealt with whatever it is, wherever you're involved with that can be dealt with right now. So just say this prayer in your heart And believe me, like Ben says, You don't have to be in a church you can be listening to this in the car, you can be saying it in the car, you can be saying it in the kitchen or wherever you are out for a joke or whatever you're doing. your site is praying your heart believe it and then we'll say Amen So his heavenly Father forgive me for the nonsense I've been involved with for all this stuff. I feel guilty after all this stuff I've been getting involved with Forgive me for I I put that in a black bin liner I deliver it to the for your cross. And I say to your Son, Jesus Christ, Jesus, come into my heart and be with me now from this day forward. Yes, for now forever. In Jesus name. Amen. We believe that if you said that prayer and then you mean it with all your heart then we believe you you're born again believe your your name is written in the Lamb's book of life. And, and we're not about religion. In this podcast we're talking about we're not talking about church, we're talking about relationship with Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father. So that's, that's it and then listen, we'd like to encourage you so if anyone wants to get in touch with us, you know, you know what, you know what to do. So brace God, Ben, and we'll till the next time, which won't be too long.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Take care. Stay safe. God bless. Thank you very much for listening to us here at Elim church as as we will repeat this again. Simon Pinchbeck is available for many different avenues you can email him catch him here, you know won't be too difficult to find him if you need to speak to him and be involved in what he's doing. We thank God for His life. Thank God for his family and my god keeping Sophia and traveling mercies. And yes, again, Elan church, please listen and share everything out. We just tried to be as real as we possibly can. We don't do religion, but we do everything through Christ. God bless every one of you. Amen. Amen.