Hello and welcome. Thank you for joining us here at elim church as you join us and as you listen to us wherever you are around the world we are in our little studio It is Friday afternoon or Saturday in your world as this goes out. You're listening to Reverend Benjamin Leonard Cooper. Fantastic name. Thanks, Mom. And we got
Leya:Leya Jane more. Whoa,
Reverend Ben Cooper:this is mine. Thank you, mom. Thank you, mom. You know, this is a relaxing time around the mic. And we said last week what we're going to talk about, we said, let's just talk about Jesus and we sat here. No subject this week. No subject just talk about Jesus. That's true. Yeah. Now we're stumped Jesus. Massive, isn't it when you really got to think about it? What a powerful What a powerful subject to talk about our lovely Jesus Christ is lovely. Ya know, some people don't like that. Did I owe you mean he's lovely. He's all power. You know, God. He's all King. He's a great
Leya:Sunday. I just put
Reverend Ben Cooper:Jesus
Leya:understatement. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, we're in a world of if somebody says, Oh, there you go. He's the Prince of Peace. Java gyra. java, and they say, Come on. We're going for it
Leya:is.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, he is. He just he is as Moses said, Okay. Then he said, Moses, he said, Omar gonna tell them them lockdown. They're sending me just tell them I am. That big boats in it.
Leya:Just tell him I am. I am.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I am and get on with it. Moses. Do you know what?
Leya:Well, I'm gonna go on something that was really cool. And it's in Mark 14.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And he says, Jesus says I am he
Leya:says I am. I am. No, I'm just telling you this. Oh, they say Oh, okay. They say to him, again, the high priests asked him saying to him, Are you the Christ, none of the blessings. And Jesus said, I am full stop. Done. So that's that. That's not true. The Bible again,
Reverend Ben Cooper:come around in a circle. I am just me I suddenly Christ. That is saying, sorry. Chip time, Chip time, chips times, it's Saturday. You know, we've had a heavy week recording certain podcasts. And it can get a little bit every as we always say, but you know, it's nice to gather around the mics and just chat, a bit of fun. But there's nothing finer than following Christ as they're being born again, filled with the Spirit in our trust in the name. Isn't it interesting, you know, where we sit in the world at this moment? The spiritual activity that there is, you know, there's a lot of tension, a lot of stress. But you know, he says, Come to me, all of you that are weary and heavy laden, I'll give you a rest. I don't know about you guys out there. But I certainly need rest in this craziness of the world. We need Jesus
Leya:strength of Jesus every day. I've tried to think about that every day. Because he says in john 812, I am the light of the world. They go, you go back out, I am the light. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness. But we'll have the light of life. That we need that right now. We need the light. And we're talking about being in the middle of winter, in the middle of a pandemic, a global pandemic is middle of lockdown,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and it's kicking off more and more and more. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel? Yes, there
Leya:is.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Is there
Leya:Yes. Jesus shaped light? Oh, yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:we know that
Leya:being pure and I've got myself a Jesus shaped light bulb. Up shops are available and they provide that what is it Jesus
Reverend Ben Cooper:shaped light bulb. This about Bob
Leya:changes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh my goodness. Look out for that
Leya:powered by the world.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The world he is saying he is the light of the world very expensive,
Leya:but the energy saving and the last.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The last roll eternity. That's a special light bulb. You know what is so powerful? Is love is unconditional. No, that's
Leya:the thing that brought me to Christ is love is unconditional is the thing that brought me to it. It was the thing of love. And as a new Christian, I found that God was very, not oppressive, but it was rules. Yeah, those are my rules and you're going to go by. And Jesus was love and everybody that I met here in alien was just somebody that reflected love, the love that they had received from Jesus back out into the world. And that's one of my favorite. I don't know what it is. I haven't looked it up. I don't know what it is. But one of my favorite things is let your light shine.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Let your light shine. Don't hide your light. Don't put your lamp on rubbish. You know, a bit of paraphrasing going on it's Saturday,
Leya:let your light shine and then be able to know that you're a disciple of God. And yeah, and they'll be able to follow you too. And I.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So there's an interesting thing, how do we let our light shine? What is that? Because what do you mean when he says, let your light shine you obviously he says, I am the light of the world. And he says, I am the Great I Am and he is the king above all kings, but living, but living. Living is the light living when you live for Christ you you you light up your life when you live for Jesus. And not just to say that when you live for Christ is easy, because it's not easy because you suddenly you gone
Leya:might not know you so well. What do you mean by living for Jesus? I know.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You live in according to the Scripture. So from Genesis to Revelation, what God says promises commands, what he's telling us how he's telling us to live. So what it talks about living as a man for Christ, living as a woman for Christ, living as a human for Christ being kind to others sharing love sharing goodness, it's
Leya:a non judgement. You is just not pointing the finger of sitting there pointing my finger as well as a shadow. But yeah, it's about being quiet. And it's about being honest. It's about being truthful. It's about
Reverend Ben Cooper:being forgiving.
Leya:Every decision that you make is a loving decision.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And sometimes, yeah, what's the best even your enemies? Bible says, Blessed are the peacemakers. What scripture that is, imagine if I know the gods we can. Our phones are available, not for much longer, because it's a one world order. So when you think about that, he says, Blessed are the peacemakers. That is the opposite to what the world wants to know, isn't it? It's Carnage everywhere. There's fights. There's arguments, there's opinions, there's trouble. There's like it's very darwinistic people clump, clambering over the survival of the fittest. We're gonna press over you people make out a war of pharmaceuticals,
Leya:people making money.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Of course they are out of aid, foreign aid,
Leya:guns, pacemakers. pistol. Yeah. Yes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So North Korea would you rather have a dark ice cream? Or a light ice cream?
Leya:Or Jesus shaped ice cream? That didn't have cream in it? Because I'm lactose free. So can I have sorbet?
Reverend Ben Cooper:sorbet? He can Magnum. What? Anyway, what do we get today?
Leya:is the thing that does my head in is that people make so much money of war. And the fact that trading life yeah, trade life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I trade life for money.
Leya:How much is that? Like? You Only Christ dipping his fingers into people's lives?
Reverend Ben Cooper:How opposite? Is that to the Word of God? Blessed are the peacemakers. Would it be great to see governments starting to make peace with one another humanity? You know, different? Even denominational wars go on? You know, money, money, money, money? No, because they make money from Carnage and make money from you can't serve to goods. No, you can't serve to God's money. You know, you can't serve money. You know, we understand what money means. Way of trading a way of living. But isn't it interesting how it should be that we can take it or leave it but we've gotten into a world money I'm talking about and got interested? Money?
Leya:Jesus, you can't live without it. You can't live without it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can't live in vain. So, people try and live around. No, no, it's all right. It's all good. It's all good. But you think money money rules the world in it Sex, drugs and rock'n'roll money. What people think that you can do with money when you can't buy eternity. And that's what we're talking about now is an eternity eternity with Christ saved. You know, I love Romans. I love Romans chapter eight. You know, it says nothing can separate us from the love of God. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Romans eight if anybody wants a notion that references you know, Romans eight is a great book, you know, if God is for us, who can be against us, you know, nothing can separate us from the love of God. You think famine nakedness, peril, sword danger. principalities, you know, nothing can separate from the love of God and that's what is so powerful.
Leya:we've sinned and shamed of ourselves.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Isn't that separate, can't separate nothing it no sin, nothing. Goodness, when you think about the power of that when you think about the power of salvation, john 316, For God so loved the world, that whosoever shall believe in Him shall not perish. It's very interesting. A God says, For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only begotten Son, He gave His Son to be sacrificed for all humanity. And it says, If you believe it doesn't talk about having a great education, that talk about money, it just says, just just just believe, who so ever shall believe in him. But religion and church leaders make it so complicated. You gotta jump in a box. So you confess fashion to a man, you know, and you are you cannot do this. Can I take that? Can I take communion? No. I got jumped through it. It goes round and round around, it gets complicated. People think you know what, I don't need none of that. complicated stuff. All I want is Jesus. Now what is Jesus? And what does he say? Come to me, all of you there were heavy laden, I'll give you a rest. And also he said to the disciples on the shoreline, the ones that he called, he said, drop me next come follow me. It is that simple follow into. So what do we define? And what do we wait following Jesus? what actually is it? That's what I
Leya:was asking you before. But that's what's living our life for Christ is the same thing as following Jesus. It's quite a person. I think the thing that people find more difficult than others, which is the thing that are found most impressive is about not loving your enemies, because I think you've actually gotten enemies, but because I've never seen any enemies in your doorway.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've got loads. I've got Listen, eyes low, two souls,
Leya:and I don't see anybody coming in here with pitchforks and torches.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There are many souls around
Leya:if I did, the way that was to follow but Jesus is to bring him in for some scans. And so
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's why that's why when
Leya:it's all about, it's about someone you find out that someone's been a real nasty,
Reverend Ben Cooper:nasty little character sounds
Leya:better to character, or they'd call it in our last nerve. They've done murine they've got your legs out from under
Reverend Ben Cooper:throwing you under the bus. Oh, taking your rag off the plate. Eating your chips,
Leya:bro from that guy down the pub? Do I have a dog and start having a fight with them? I've seen that I've seen Yeah. Plot your revenge. Don't think I'm gonna get back. Don't think I'm going to show them up in public. Don't think I'm gonna
Reverend Ben Cooper:don't send a text. Don't send emails to an email, put it on social media
Leya:said.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Look at that then. Okay. So being a follower of Jesus, he said, in lots of places, just come and follow me.
Leya:Follow me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Now that gives me comfort, comfort, enjoy a Christmas song. Not that start singing it. That gives me great comfort to understand that Christ doesn't expect anything of me. But just to follow. Yeah, that's it, and what is to follow to follow him through the word but also he knows because my frailty and my human side that we are not super humans, that there is going to come a time when we might have a wobble.
Leya:So you don't mean follow him as in follow his actions you mean?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Follow his words, when you follow His word, you are following his actions when you because in the Scriptures, if you had difficulty if it is be honest, that difficult is it to follow the Word of God it is extremely difficult, because simply because you're going against lusophone whereas Lucifer Lucifer is on the outside. Trying to get everyone that is a believer to live completely the opposite to what God's word is. So being kind to someone, you might try and display an act of kindness, an act of love or give a hug not now because it's social distancing, but you know, a virtual one, you know, zoom hug, and all that sort of stuff. But it's like just trying to display kindness people go after saying, I have to remember them days. What do you want? Why are you being so nice to my
Leya:buying of my life? Some I've never told you this. He approached me once and said, I'm sorry, but you gotta stop all this kindness. Stop being so happy in the mornings, because it's fake.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I remember you saying
Leya:I was offended. I'm surprised. I mean, at the time I thought, Okay. I'm going to try and be a Christian. You love your enemies. Yeah. So I said, Well, okay, I'm not gonna change my Whether I am for you the things that have happened in my life that have made me have this this perspective on life wow but that's your opinion not mine
Reverend Ben Cooper:Well the thing is say
Leya:yeah but that's it says trust crime people that's somebody outside on the street trying to shout you whenever you young I see quite a lot yeah. Christians up I've seen it on abroad and holidays. Yeah, Christians actually actively trying to save people beside the world is going away and we know the end is not join Jesus love him and people love for that person ridiculing him in his daily review in love. Imagine that that person is coming to you in love and trying to save your spirit. People don't want to ram down their throats. So yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:choose not to listen. But I think the greatest wrong word bomber use it had for Jesus is to live for Him. You don't need to say a word. Because your actions and your kindness and your love and your stability in trouble. And the way that you live will display Christ
Leya:that people are suspicious of kindness.
Reverend Ben Cooper:They are like a cup of tea. Hang on a minute. What you putting in it? We don't live to up to the cake that shot. Yeah, so fingers just say yes to straightaway. No. Is that right? But living further following Jesus. I wonder what that looks like to everybody. corresponds. You couldn't you couldn't cut he concoct a calculator? You couldn't do that shape?
Leya:I feel a bit weird about cross bans.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I've never felt weird about them. I love them.
Leya:I think because now I'm like, that's the crucifix that killed my Jesus. My Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:My Jesus.
Leya:killed him. And I saw a cake. I still like them think they're lovely, tasty morsels.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But I'll eat yours. All right. I don't have a toasted TK. Maybe God's got to work on me. That's even worse. Toast in the cross. But I'll just toast them. I just encountered
Leya:this packet find really, really strange is the the emblem of our Christianity is the crucifix. Yes. But the crucifix has been such a part of fashion for so many years. And I don't understand why. It's appropriate age appropriate
Reverend Ben Cooper:thing. A lot of people. Yeah, when you? Yeah, I understand that. I wear a cross all the time. Got it on all day long, massive. Massive cash isn't? lining up hands is easier. I think
Leya:some of you I take that. Let us know what
Reverend Ben Cooper:you're talking about scripture deal with a plank in your own eyes. Don't worry about the speck in your chums eye. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he has enough trouble gun in your life. Don't worry about him over there.
Leya:That's another bit of beautiful scripture in it. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah. Scripture is really, really powerful. It's life changing. But the simple thing is what what does it mean? What does it mean to follow Jesus just to just to live and just to trust him to just The just shall live by faith. And you got to be careful when you start talking about that, because the old evangelical church start jumping up and around and name it and claiming it, but just just just to live for Jesus and just just to live in the Word of God and just to be a peace maker. be someone that displays love and kindness to those that are really getting at? Yeah, trying to show forgiveness. It's really tough, isn't it?
Leya:Something that you're really good at is you just stay calm? We have a lot of things as well, if that's something you're really good at. I think that as a way to live like Jesus. Yeah, there's been many times this hasn't been resolved for Sunday. Don't worry. That that calmness that you find in your faith, that trust in Jesus, it will be okay.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It Yeah. Is. It is
Leya:it hard when you haven't got a penny in your pocket? You've got a pound left it it got pound left. Someone asked you for it because they need it. Yeah. And you give that to them. Yeah. And you would do this. You'd give them that pound and just trust that Jesus would feed you for the day.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can't heartbeat and you Can't outgive God, when when when you give, there's something powerful about giving is better to give than to receive. So, don't cut me off for Christmas card list. Okay? I still like presence. It's still nice to receive. But the Bible says both It is better to give and to receive so. And also what was the scripture say Christ he? He didn't have anything Did he? The tomb was borrowed. He didn't have any earthly goods
Leya:into the world does
Reverend Ben Cooper:that take effort, don't worry about your purse. Don't take your tight your Wi Fi. Don't take your phone. Don't take anything off. Take him home,
Leya:Simon. Now put
Reverend Ben Cooper:your flip flops on. But Lord, don't ask me to wear white socks and sandals. Cuz I'm not going down the Galilee with
Leya:tight those sliders off, take them off.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm not going down now wearing white socks, and sliders.
Leya:I'm telling you, these are going to be really fashionable. They're called Jesus creepers that
Reverend Ben Cooper:just put the sandals on? Yeah. And you will really look like Christian. And when you go down there, put your sandals and your socks on and put on that knitted jumper. You will look like a real believer. Sorry. Anyway, sorry about that. Yeah, we went a little long. But yeah, it's that following Jesus
Leya:of having faith that the Lord will provide that, to me is the power of giving.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The power of giving, of given given yourself, given time, given your heart. And even when people don't appreciate what you are doing, when you give yourself to humanity, and all they do is complain, even though it's taken your time. f Gosh, is that oh you got for me? Is that all you're done? Is that the only
Leya:but I think Jesus would be grateful.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Okay, thank you was cause he was famous. Thank
Leya:you so much for everything.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There's a test isn't it? To give, to keep giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and keep doing and doing and doing and doing and doing? I know the Sabbath rest I get all that I know you got a rest and all that jazz. But what I mean is is just giving yourself giving of your time giving of your heart and just doing and just doing because that's what Christ done. He He gave. He done everything for him. He just gave gave gave and it's just it's just, it's just Christ, isn't it? That's what just to give to give and not to expect anything back. But the world is the opposite, isn't it? If I am going to lend you a tenner? Actually yeah, amigo loans. I'll expect 50 quid back you know I mean, oh, yeah, I mean, you get the world gives and I go and like we said the other week wasn't it about mortgage holidays? I don't know why he called it another day. Another day. Cuz I mean, more trouble. Could you give me another day? Exactly. So it's not a holiday, more loan, more debt, more pressure. So the world is the complete opposite in every it's a polar opposite to everything that Christ says. Christ says it's better to give than to receive expect no return.
Leya:The thing is, though, I don't ever remember reading about a time in history. When the world did live, as Christ taught us to.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We haven't we've fallen state. Yeah. From the garden.
Leya:No, I mean, but forever. Like even when Jesus was walking the earth.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, that was completely against them. Yeah, for teaching. He was they was just at him all the time.
Leya:He went out into the world after his ascension to heaven.
Reverend Ben Cooper:church and the church, and I got attacked. The thing is, I got martyred.
Leya:The church started and immediately humanities.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Don't Don't go there.
Leya:Send me all these emails to tell me I'm a prima donna. But the church started immediately humanity got greedy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's always been great. Yeah.
Leya:But greedy with power.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And what and so there is a classic example of Lucifer in the wilderness with Christ. I'll give you greed. I'll give you these kingdoms. This, this,
Leya:this give you this Bible, but you won't be able to read it
Reverend Ben Cooper:is the Bible as it's written in Latin.
Leya:You will be able to read it. You'll have to go through this man. Church to read that for you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I know. Yeah, just I'm higher than you. And I will read it to you but I'll just I'll read it but you won't be able to understand it because you're not educated at all. That's my own game.
Leya:That's not the word of God. That's the word.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. What does it say? It says, going to the highways and the byways and just you know, you got live for Jesus living for Jesus living by the word, but when you live by the word, it is difficult to live by word, because it's the opposite to what the government is telling you to do. It's the opposite to what the system is telling you to do. Because you got to go by faith, you got to trust them. And you know, the decisions that Christians are gonna make that are completely against workplace ethics, or not even ethics, against workplace bullying, workplace herding,
Leya:that's why it's so important that when we we are we call ourselves a family of Christ. That's what we are, because we are spiritual brothers and sisters. Yeah, brother, I love him. He's amazing. He's a good dude. His family, I love my family. Love them. But they're not Christians. And I feel I'm not casting aspersions of them on them for that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I know. It goes. Well, yeah.
Leya:You know, I mean, but when you've got a spiritual link with somebody that is strong.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's above the three levels.
Leya:This is the way I live my life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Senior Noah was, you know, I know that. I know that. I know. It's just me know, I know. There's a connection. There's that there's a spiritual connection with a believer you ever met anybody for the first time you think you got to be a believer? Gosh,
Leya:sorry, came into my work. My bank tidy last week. And she goes to an alien church in another area. Yeah. And she came in. And we both said, because we've been, she'd been isolating, and I've obviously been working alone. And we both said that. It was like, just so
Reverend Ben Cooper:good, refreshing,
Leya:refreshing and enlightening. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:just fulfilling to me a believer, to meet a believer meet somebody
Leya:and be able to say in a workplace. How's your relationship with God has Yeah. How's that?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes.
Leya:Ha. You know, what have you been doing as your church open?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah. What's going on to this song?
Leya:Do you like this one? Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And there's a connection. Yeah,
Leya:that connection is, is is priceless. Yeah. I mean, it's not. It's not genetic. No, it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:not, you can't buy it. All that the price has been paid one sacrifice once and for all. The Lamb of God. Are you washed in the blood? That's a great song. It is a great song and it does it in the head. You know, the power in the blood of Jesus when you you know, we're just buzzing around the genie every little chitchat. But when you think about the power of God, the power of Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit, you know, that the grace and the mercy the the, he will forgive me, forgive me and forgive me when I let him down when I fail him when when I know I shouldn't be doing saint but I'll go in now. I still do it. protocol. Look at the look at the power of the protocol. Some texts. I think that the Father's love the Father's love for the son to run into you. You know, the the sons taken all the money, he's taken his irritants. He's taken a roll around, living with the pigs. He's been with prostitutes. He's been around a pole dancing club. Sorry, he's been done a gentlemen's club before Monica badass, you know, he's been drinking right? bainer he's done all he you know, he's
Leya:he hasn't been eating a burrito.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But he's found itself in a situation. The grass is always greener. But the father did not reject him isn't interested in that his brother. Did we do it in that time? That he does that? Yeah. But Sonny has done a club last weekend. So have a go here. The power of forgiveness.
Leya:Yeah. The power
Reverend Ben Cooper:of forgiveness that that house.
Leya:I'll come back to that again, because that's something that comes up quite a lot when we're when you're doing a Sunday sermon. And we're talking to each other. On the Facebook, on the facebook, facebook a lot of the time Yeah, yeah. Grace, the word Grace is mentioned so much. And I think that Christians are powerful Christians find that word and that idea of a holy grace and how graceful Jesus was at the end. Just to be not the end. The beginning, the end of the beginning
Reverend Ben Cooper:to say he was always it completely was rice.
Leya:Oh, yeah. And that is something that takes my breath away. Yes. I think nobody can actually explain the depth of that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The grace, you know, there's a movement that's been moving for a long time called hyper grace. And that
Leya:is in the bandwidth and the highways and it's false.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I don't know what that means. Rice is where they're saying that Grace has covered everything. You don't need to pray anymore. You don't need to read anymore. God, Christ has done it all at the cross. To the to degree to degree you control a little bit of an understanding from that. But there is a responsibility as a believer, because what they're saying is you. So if you say I'm not praying anymore, I don't need to think anymore because it's already done. It's given you a an insurance gun, do what you like, and then you're still. Now there's a responsibility for me to live Exactly. I have a responsibility to live and how do I live? Coming back to the beginning of this little chit chat? I follow Jesus and what is it? So when you look at the shoreline of Galilee, when he said, Come and follow me, he didn't say, Come on, go to church. He didn't say come and go to theological college. He didn't say come and get ordained. He said, just come and follow me. Following Jesus. Now what do I do to follow him? I find him in the word, we use the word. So I read the word. I let the word speak to me. And I allow him to show me what I need to do. Because without him, yeah, I can't do anything without him. That's interesting, isn't it?
Leya:allowing is allowing yourself to believe in something that
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can't say that you can just brought? You just bought Thomas right out into the light.
Leya:Exactly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Let's talk about Thomas.
Leya:Well, I doubt we can. No.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Doubting Thomas. Thomas is a classic example of someone being really open. And really honest about his faith. Please don't tell me or talk to me any more about Jesus, if I can't see him? I'm not going to believe that's a big statement, isn't it? That is like, that's like rejecting it. That's that's an open public declaration is I do not believe he actually said that. He said, I will not believe I do not believe unless I see. Now that was a statement of faith as well when it Yeah. So like, that's a double shotgun. Whoa, hang on a minute. He's pulling the trigger on the congregation. And it's also pulling it on himself. And then also, he's going now. And suddenly. But I find it really fascinating that, that Christ left him for seven or eight days, with no sights, nothing. But Thomas still showed up with his champion church chums and those in that upper Plato's in that room again, then suddenly, he went through the motions. So we might say, I'm not going to believe. But when God calls you, and you really have that encounter, I'm not talking about an altar call. So
Leya:we might go through the motions. With that. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. It's some interest in that Thomas was so bold, and so clear. I'm not frightened to display to his friends, his church family. I don't want to hear any more about I need to see evidence shopping. I'm struggling. I'm tired. You've always had the blessing of that. Nothing. I feel I haven't seen anything.
Leya:It wasn't a struggle.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It was a struggle. And then what happens? He steps back in the room and just try and imagine that for a moment. I actually can't I actually can't imagine that. To be chatting with your church chums. actually sign I don't believe I've got to see him and then suddenly, Christ walked through the wall is walk through that wall is right before us. If he walked through that wall right before us, I'd be off this chair up. It's straight for us. Think about me just see your feet. You know what I mean? Yeah, seeing the Messiah that you see now to the cross of Calvary, watching him beaten, watching him spat upon watching, you know, all these great films that I you know, I use that word great, but flippantly I suppose, all the films that have been out there about the crucifixion and all that whatever we see through the world of the TV, you know, that it was so much worse than what it was, you know, the Passion of the Christ you know, that was that was the one for me that really got me more frightened Living Daylights so it frightens me. It actually frightens me to think oh my gosh, look at that, that crucifixion is just, you can't get no more
Leya:barbaric it's me is that he knew the whole time that he was just like, I'm the God of love. This is who I am. I'm the God of love. Like forget Uriah Wilson, you Cupid and all that I am the God of love. I am. I'm here to save you all. I've taught you all about loving your enemies, loving everybody start the being home, having faith believing maybe and just being truthful in life, all I wanted to do is provide for you. I know. This is is going to happen. But at the same time I'm suffering in the garden when he begged for it to be taken away from him. Yeah, yeah. But you still have the grace to go through it. And give everybody is that that that action of grace just knocks me off my feet? The power
Reverend Ben Cooper:of trust and power of trusting in the father's? Will loving you.
Leya:Yeah, loving you enough to do it. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So you think what he went through a crucifixion and being punched in the heart when I think it absolutely blows me away thinking about what he went through. And he created the tree that he died on. He created the iron ore that the nails were made of. He made the blacksmith he he created everything. He created everything. He produced everything for crucifixion, the people the materials, the the phone, the crown of phones, he knew exactly where that bush was going to be growing in knew every phone that was going to be that was going to puncture his skull. Father forgive them for they know know what they do when you think about it.
Leya:And he could have stopped it any minute. And he could have gone. You know what? Enough it is. later on. I'm on the next star of this galaxy. Cloud, because I created it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, my brain is so I'm so thick on my brain is so just
Leya:I know you when
Reverend Ben Cooper:you were in the cloud, you have to go from the cloud. Oh, yeah, it was first stepping stone.
Leya:And then you go to a galaxy. And he goes to heaven.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Done. Bang Modi. I'm back. I'm Yeah. What you think about it like boy
Leya:on the table? Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's already What do you think about it? The power of love. The free now's of love kept him on the cross free now's of love. They wasn't there was no strength for them now because he would have he would have stayed on that cross. That crucifixion he would have stayed in that position. If then if then soldiers extracted the nails he would have because the scriptures had to be fulfilled. It was just a process. Just for the for humanity to see that okay, that the nails are holding them there. The soldiers have put him there. The soldiers have lifted up the cross and dropped him in the soldiers, the soldiers, the soldiers, the king, the king, the king, they've done that. Well, actually, No, you didn't do that. That was redemption plan.
Leya:He did it. He did the beginning of time.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That was that was the plan of redemption. That was the plan. But what a plan. If he was going to say how would you save the world, I'd save it all with roses and cups of tea, cupcakes and soft and fluffy stuff. The plan of redemption was the most brutal death on on Earth. In front of the world to see shipping
Leya:code is freaking it's really warming my eyes
Reverend Ben Cooper:is the power. That's the power that Christ popped out of Mary excuse the theological debt from that I'm using that popped out of Mary and became and humbled himself to die upon aqui. Come he came to die.
Leya:I saw this thing once. I've said I've said it so many times. I've said it so many times.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But sure I can.
Leya:So this program, and they were talking about it. And they were saying, God, if God wanted to get the people to believe in him, then he could have written his name in stars across the sky, said, I am God. Yeah. But he wanted people to love one another. So he gave them a child, to now a baby to love. And then part of love. I feel unfair, fortunately for human beings is sorrow and regret. And realizing, oh, this is why I had. And that's the lesson that we had to learn. I feel like that's part of the lesson. As human beings life is very deep, isn't it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Love is so deep, but that when we're talking, we're talking about the love of God and the love of Christ. And we're not talking about a world because there's a there's a difference. Chuck away love. Yeah,
Leya:this is how we're going to teach about love. This is how we're going to teach people about just a tiny bit of the love that we have for them. Because it's unfathomable. Yeah, and the way that we have to do that is to give them this not story. But these actions, this historical
Reverend Ben Cooper:event,
Leya:we have to play out this narrative. That's and we're the main parts in it. Yeah. And that's to show people how deeply they can love someone and how deeply they can feel loss. And therefore why love is so important.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Very deep. You Love. Love is so powerful. Love has different layers on top of worldly love. But when you're talking about that love Your love what you're talking about. You're talking about john 316, For God so loved the world. I could pile up. There's a different little word to bring up on a Saturday again, chips day.
Leya:But it's that thing, that thing of like, teaching a lesson. You learn a lesson by mistakes. Yeah, absolutely. Like this is the lesson that they were teaching us as parents, because Jesus and God are both the same person and their parent. Their father. Yeah. It's like they were teaching us through this mistake. This is how to love properly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:When you sleep, I think you should a mistake. But what we got to understand No, no, no, not the most our human or human mistake. But isn't that interesting? coding apparatus is nice, but that that I don't think that any human being or any scholar or theological, well oiled, skilled, theological theologian, whatever we want to work this, I don't think anyone can actually get to that point and say, This is what that love means. We, we hear about it for the Scripture, john 316. But you cannot, as a human being, you cannot get to that amount of love that it is, it's impossible. It's impossible to know that love to understand what that was for God to turn its face away, you know, across the Calvary when Jesus died, and then everything went on, and that, that the goodness gracious when, when you really think about the power of the love of God, as human beings, I don't see how we can grasp it. Because it's not an earthly love. It's not a fleshly love. It's a love that is beyond human understanding.
Leya:It is the Father and the Son.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Come on. So it's just so it's just too much to comprehend my
Leya:father, and I'm putting my son on a cross, but he is also me on the cross. That is just
Reverend Ben Cooper:what I get that he's Jesus, isn't it? It is she makes it so clear. And it's good. She says, while he he knocked him off there also so many times and he said in the New Testament, he said, I am the Father are One that must have ruffled some feathers, I must afford a spring aka him that he is just here he goes again metaphors, metaphors.
Leya:Which Actually, no, he meant it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I asked it because he said I am I am. We are one. So to work that out theologically, that will take us forever in a day because we've we know great theologians that explore that expositors that pull that out of Scripture, but to actually that word expositor I have got a little bit of my head, I just I just like being me, I just don't love what's up in up to theological. Jesus made that word.
Leya:I'm gonna say God, but then Jesus is one
Reverend Ben Cooper:person, well, that's a sign.
Leya:People can't fathom love like that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I can't see how that a theologian or someone that's doing expository preaching and expanding the word, how human beings can ever get to the pinnacle. And say, we have found this is it. Because you can't. It's for infinity and beyond.
Leya:Arms, especially if you're the parent, I imagine that having a newborn baby in your arms and feeling that rush of like, my heart is just swelling to the point of breaking, because I'm so in love with this pure, innocent person in front of me and there's nothing quite like that. Is that okay? Think about this.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Think about this, right? We are going to have a child and that child that we are going to have? No, look, there's a child on. Price the load, listen, we're gonna have a child, not us. We're gonna have a child. And what we're gonna do is this child, we're going to love the show, unconditionally. But then we go let it die on the cross.
Leya:Exactly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can't work that one out.
Leya:Because we also love these
Reverend Ben Cooper:millions of other people that think about it for a minute. But then hang on a minute, hang on, what's your man gotta know the Word became flesh. He was always the I Am. He is always God. He has always been But it makes it very clear in the scripture it says, just paraphrasing a and I'm just paraphrasing, so please forgive me referencing and all that. So it makes it very clear that it says that, that Jesus is the image of the visible God. So, so Jesus has always been in john, it tells us very clearly in the beginning was a word and the word would have gotten a little better. So what we got to understand is that it what we got to get to is the Word became flesh. Isn't it interesting? It doesn't say the word was born.
Leya:Yeah, it doesn't.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It doesn't say the word became flesh. So the word has always been. Yeah, think about that little bad boy for a second. Yeah, that one is sounding off
Leya:tonight. Oh, that you gave us that always blows my mind a little bit, because it's that
Reverend Ben Cooper:the Word became flesh.
Leya:Let us make man in our image. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So. So Christ was always but he became the embryo he became as you can. You can't get to get
Leya:a baby. And then
Reverend Ben Cooper:that text is so important. When he was in
Leya:the womb did he know he
Reverend Ben Cooper:was Jesus Christ, a guy that had died too much.
Leya:He created
Reverend Ben Cooper:biology he created every fishy wishy in the sea, say, he created every grain of sand, he created the stars. And as the Old Testament says, He is expanding the universe. as we speak. It's growing. And that's where again, actually the Bible's right about where it talks about creation. We Chuck him billions of pounds into the heavens, and you've got Christian Science going, just recreation. Just read the Old Testament, you'll find that everything you are saying now that's been written 1000s of years ago.
Leya:Oh, I'm gonna teach you about laughter.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I will show you about Jesus. But look, let's finish it on this. Think about that scripture for a minute. And the Word became flesh. It did sign the word was born. And the Word became, he already was so much rambling. I'm sorry. What was that?
Leya:Jesus. Yeah, watch.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think I better wrap this up. Come on. Look, let's just drop this one in our laps of small this morning.
Leya:I want to hear it. And the Word
Reverend Ben Cooper:became flesh. I can't get cuz it's too big to get. He wasn't. He wasn't born. He was birthed he. he popped out. He popped out but he already was. But he created everything about Mary within Mary. He created
Leya:with Amanda manger.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He created the human he used humanity to produce himself
Leya:star that guided
Reverend Ben Cooper:people. You can't You can't get it. Can you? Look, when you go back to john, and you're not john, john, when you go at john, the gospel of john, it talks about Doubting Thomas. It says Jesus just step through, step through the wall. He could have stepped out the heavens, but he chose to use Mary as a dressing room to come out into the world to show that he was completely mad. Because the scriptures are
Leya:men.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. So then we come and it says, Now this is really important.
Leya:Let us make man in the Yes. Band.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. And what is really important, I was gonna say it says the man, Christ Jesus. There's a heavy one. So that's heavy, but he the man
Leya:he didn't know he was Jesus. When he was in there was a kid. No, he didn't. He had to become a man. And then
Reverend Ben Cooper:take on the way but also Jesus, he was the word In the beginning was the Word. And then john says further down in the text and one john. It says, john, Chapter One says in the beginning was a Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. So the Word was God. But then down further in the same text, john goes, and the Word became flesh. It become flesh.
Leya:Nothing in the Bible talks about Jesus as a young man,
Reverend Ben Cooper:a boy, a child, it's very difficult to find the script. It's almost as if he disappears from from the manger, to the cross almost three years before his ministry.
Leya:It's only when he goes to the wedding. Yeah, he says. And then he's doubting himself. And she says,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Jesus have you dumped me Mom, so it we've run out of ages used to go shell tank shells on the wall, dinner on the table.
Leya:It'd be like having that mission dinardo
Reverend Ben Cooper:We call this a dynamic long stretch, a long stretch. You know, I talk about it forever. And it's great just to talk about in a relaxed way as well. It's really important to do that. Just chatting. So we're just chatting on a Saturday afternoon we just want to say thank you so much for listening to our little ramble a little just trying to understand things you know, taking collars off and theological
Leya:questions.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Keep asking someone to tell us a way forward God's on the phone the phone's ringing next door we gotta go. We thank you so much. My god bless you and strengthen you. You've been listening to layout Jane more. And you've been listening to me Reverend Ben Cooper, we thank you so much for sharing everything in the world of podcasting. You can catch us on buzzsprout Spotify Google Play Alexa, I Heart Radio and so many more places. Please share everything. Tommy is rumbling the calf is Colin even at sharp. Praise the Lord. Have a great day. Stay safe, but stay in a word of God. God bless