Hello, and welcome to our podcast here at Elim Church and swana. You're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and we have a Leya in the recording studio today. And we are very serious. You will find some buzzsprout Spotify, Apple Music iHeartRadio Google Play and Alexa. Shout that out in your room. Alexa, she will go. How can I help you?
Leya:Alexa, play Reverend Ben's podcast?
Reverend Ben Cooper:No. That's what it says. Say. You will find us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. And also crime watch. Thank you for joining us. Today is Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon, as this is pushed out. For the world of social media. We thank you so much for listening with us and staying with us for lockdown. And as a long, long long lockdown, long cabin fever.
Leya:And I'm starting to I'm starting to feel the cracks now. I'm starting to feel it. I'm starting to feel exhausted.
Reverend Ben Cooper:To be honest. We haven't been indoors. When you think about you've been working flat out I've been working flat out. Yeah. You only had a little spill indoors in that time we've done the podcast on what would it be like to be locked in
Leya:a Christmas Christmas?
Reverend Ben Cooper:And then you've got a little message
Leya:from God saying you're gonna reap what you sow you got? Yeah. So let's isolate for the entirety of Christmas. I have worked from home for a couple of days, and I hate it. Yeah, thankfully. I'm keyworker. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. I've got cabin fever. Imagine that. teaching the kids on cooking, washing, cleaning washing the car. I could
Leya:teach him work at same time teach and work hard as drastic as hard work tough.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah.
Leya:How do you do it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I don't know how they do it.
Leya:I don't know. I'm asking them. How do you do it? How do you do it? Email us. Let us know. How do you do it@god.com attend. lol m at
Reverend Ben Cooper:hello@elimswanley.org. No, hello? No, no, no, we're in Sevenoaks. Hello.
Leya:Hello. Hello?
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, probably. So it is Hello at helium swanley.org.
Leya:Haley owl at eat in swanley.org
Reverend Ben Cooper:and the queen. He's not doing a podcast here in Swanley.
Leya:I know. I bet you thought it was a
Reverend Ben Cooper:does the Queen ever think about one as she ever driven fruit one
Leya:because Princess Anne came in a couple of years ago she came to open up now there was something going on the Citizens Advice Bureau
Reverend Ben Cooper:please come in for an exorcism. Citizens Advice Bureau
Leya:Citizens Advice Bureau to open the new building I believe on might be making that up but she was definitely pictured outside Costa making a beeline for Shishly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:She didn't have a
Leya:job. She wasn't here at the time. But it was
Reverend Ben Cooper:then she would have been cut record was tighter outside on the railing.
Leya:Oh no. I know fighting over an old KFC bag.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What do you recommend? What are the coins? Oh cuz we got KFC next door directly to Sicily. If the Queen rolled up. She She rolled into town in her little smart car.
Leya:I feel like this is a hard question because you're worried about the implications the wider implications of appetizing food when we are sanctioned by God. I think she'd go to the charity shop next door pick yourself up a really lovely blazer and a little handbag one of those little proper Queen handbags she couldn't a
Reverend Ben Cooper:birthday cake hat or what she could do. The other side of the shops is a tough accountants. So she could quickly run and put a bet on our walls. Next Door older a KFC legged path shittily and say sorry, when chicken a day and go straight into the charity shop. Get blazer
Leya:little handbag and the birthday cake hat
Reverend Ben Cooper:and at the same time dogs are tied up. Yeah, actually, while we're talking about this rose, we're talking about God. I don't know. But
Leya:today we are talking about so I've been thinking this is why we were talking about lockdown. Yeah, and I think because we're in lockdown. Something that we need to remember is God said that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. So we got to be kind to each other kindness. Yeah, but we're talking about love your neighbor.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Love your night The title
Leya:of this podcast once I've written it will be will be love thy neighbor,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Matthew five. Is that right?
Leya: Matthew 22 37:39
Reverend Ben Cooper:Okay, well, Matthew 544 48, can I read it? It says, Have you heard, as it has been said, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you. Wow.
Leya:Well, Matthew 2237 39 Yeah. says Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, this is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it you should love your neighbor as yourself. So that one comes first Matthew five. Yeah, it comes first and then this one leads on.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, so it says there literally again, love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you. That's a heavy punch in it. But I tell you Jesus as I'm telling you now and make this very clear
Leya:so Love
Reverend Ben Cooper:your enemies. Love your enemies. How hard is that? It's very hard to tell what is an enemy Someone is coming against you someone that is giving you trouble someone at work someone in the family someone in locked. You know, it's it's tough, isn't it? emotions are stretched at the moment. Everyone is stretched.
Leya:They are everyone.hard is it when you're sitting on Facebook and someone put something on there that really gets you go and you're like, oh, answer that back on. My pride is at stake here. And then they're like, saying something even worse and making you look a fool in front of the numbers of anonymous people that are also reading the same post. as anybody else happens if you just end it and go. I saw what we're allowed to disagree. I still love you. I
Reverend Ben Cooper:still love you. But one part I won't I won't get me feathers ruffled. I'm happy.
Leya:New Year. Oh, I love your
Reverend Ben Cooper:bar. Right. Yeah. Pharisees and the Sadducees
Leya:say that because I cannot
Reverend Ben Cooper:say my final opinion. All right, Stan is usually the dropping off.
Leya:The Queen when you check in. She does want to check in. Sheesh, Leah, like, you just said that. On your podcast on a Saturday afternoon.
Reverend Ben Cooper:She won't get to hear this show.
Leya:No, but she will.
Reverend Ben Cooper:let's backtrack. The Queen's changed her mind. She's not KFC on the head. She's gone by some guy next door. I'm calling the boys in town. You know, I'm not sticking to the chain. I'm going to support chain the family business and
Leya:to the main family. She said she gets she gets KFC for Prince Charles. And then she has this initially.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's true. Yeah. And you can just imagine Charles Canyon sitting in his little smart car, his mom find stuff out the window, the dogs junk
Leya:revenue. Exactly. Although he always takes his rubbish home and recycles. Because he's good to the planet.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Of course he does. What she
Leya:should be saying is or what she should be saying is so Kai. I love my anime. Do you know what I mean? Oh,
Reverend Ben Cooper:my gosh. Yeah.
Leya:I just didn't do any of that math, Matthew five, which I thought was a very lovely read by you, as I always think it is. It says, Yeah, pray for those who persecute you. In that way, you'll be acting as the true children of your Father in heaven. I
Reverend Ben Cooper:like that. It's great. But how hard is that to do?
Leya:It's impossible sometimes to start
Reverend Ben Cooper:the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Now, this is really, really important because it says, Love your neighbor we're talking about. And then also it says, loving your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. But it's okay to have lip service. But when it comes down to heart service, there's a difference in the Pharisees and the Sadducees. The Scripture says Don't be babbling on the street corners. Again, same emails come in for about 20 hold off and I you know, Friday and Saturday feeling Pharisees and the Sadducees they look good. They smell smart. They were standing there with politicians politicians, they look good. They sounded great
Leya:little Pharaohs.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. It's all lip service. That's so it's okay saying it isn't it that it says there very clearly Love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you. We say it, but to actually put yourself in that position of someone's really offended you someone Got you're really angry and frustrated. We're not talking about just a quick we're talking about a long procession of things events that secret events that came out and in and out and in and out and in and out. And then that little one at work or keeps stabbing you in the back Foxy Little Foxes. Yeah, the Bible says the Bible, Little Foxes and then it talks about the evil dust in it. So that around us we got people that are just nipping us nipping at us trying to nip us and get angry and frustrated. I see we can speak it. We can speak the text. But I got live it I can you know, I've got to like when we're constantly turning the other cheek for me code. Oh, so when they give you good you guys
Leya:put out emphasize
Reverend Ben Cooper:when you go out on the floor, you beat me up. My
Leya:goodness, God bless you on the job. It's hard to know. What you say is it's easy to use it as an excuse, choose it to deflect things as a superficial thing. Yeah, yeah. Love. You might Yeah, whatever. I love you
Reverend Ben Cooper:flippantly and you say yeah, it's. But that's how it's got to be, isn't it? So you might have someone in your life. You might have someone around, you might have situations that are just exploding all the time. The one at work that is just being very snidey and very sarcastic and just the little, it's not so much the big hitters. It's the it's a continuum of relentlessness. That's what the enemy does. He's relentless. The same drum, the same drama beats the same drum, the same rhythm, same doubt, the same doubt. A doubt and he's trying to wear us down and you said say earlier is quite interesting that we are worn down in lockdown. Everybody's worn down in one way. And the way that is, I believe is we're mentally exhausted. Oh, great. Yeah, I think we are all of us, you know, get into appointment wearing, even if you're indoors, and you've been furloughed, and you're just you know, you've got loads of time on your hands. That is an enemy. Yeah. And then those are out, pounding away,
Leya:devil and idle hands.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You're reading the Bible tonight? And yeah,
Leya:is that in the Bible? Or is it Yeah, just to say, Yeah, no, it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:not a sign. It's in the Bible, in the biblio. So so this is this is tough, Jesus, this is a mess about and we have a little laugh, you know, which is great and is needed just to lighten things up. But it's hard being a Christian because if I've got someone being relentless, he's just full of energy in a way of driving the site.
Leya:Does that mean with a lockdown? I feel it is relentless. Just there you solution. And it doesn't matter if you've got families like when we were doing their podcast about you are not alone. It doesn't matter if you've got family, you can be alone within that family. Yeah. But it's that relentless. Art, you know what I've really, really, really miss coming here on a Sunday. And I've been my brothers and sisters.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that's that's a that's a tough one. You know.
Leya:And I feel I know, I'm speaking to somebody the other day, it doesn't come to this church. Okay. And they were saying that they're feeling their faith widening. Because they're missing out on that. Yeah. Can you see feel that we have that brotherly that that unity? Yeah. So I mean, I'm lucky you're lucky. Well, you're not lucky. We're blessed. Come on. We're blessed that we're able to be in this building together.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Holding Yeah, putting services out.
Leya:Yeah, exactly. Got some DJing going on tonight. Oh, yeah. But it's, his thing is,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's very clever. Are they are the enemies working at the moment as well? I
Leya:think it is. I think it's the enemy relentlessly draining the church of its energy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I do. I honestly believe that it's been released. That's my belief. I believe it's been released. I believe this is chemical
Leya:when he fell down from heaven like lightning.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Well, that little fella. Good. Look, can I say? Jesus said, I saw Satan for light lightning. All right, that Yeah. Anyway, what was he talking about?
Leya:How you believe that? It's been released?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I honestly believe it's been released. I do honestly believe that.
Leya:But that will mean we're in a time of Revelation and I know that you don't believe
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, no, we are. We are in we are in we are in the last days. I know. The Bible says right from the New Testament. He says, It started in the we're always united. But when you see the signs of the times when you look at what's happening in Israel, you see the prophecy is being fulfilled. You see the lawlessness and when you see all these big hitters if he was going to Thessalonians if he got enough Thessalonians scillonian Thessalonians. If you got the book of Thessalonians. You will read Really cracking stuff.
Leya:I'm gonna read it tonight about
Reverend Ben Cooper:in times. study that with Daniel, bring that into if you really want to cheer yourself up, jump into revelation
Leya:sat down. Certainly if I'm really in the dark, okay, quite frightening revelations is yes. Yeah, that that really
Reverend Ben Cooper:is our light. And the sun's out.
Leya:Don't mention it before the eyes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I know. You've got this. So right. I believe it's been released. I believe it's a plague. I believe it's being used for harm. But what the enemy meant for harm God will turn for good. Yeah. So we are living in very spiritual time. So we are worn down now. The lockdown isn't doesn't have a voice, does it?
Leya:people stealing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And just because, yeah, because we're talking about our emotions, and we're feeling worn and we're feeling tired. It doesn't mean we're weak. I think what it means is that we're in touch with what's going on in the world, your spirit,
Leya:as well, it doesn't mean that people are being punished.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, no, no, no, that's very clear. But punishment by the devil is always looking to wear Christians down. Because if he can get, like you said that guy that he was talking to a guy or gal is that the enemy loves to keep a separate living, keep us separated. And then the isolation comes in if we can stop churches opening and all that. So there is there is a lot of pressure on us to keep believing.
Leya:Some Yeah, no, hold on to this feeling. express some sort of rock and roll film, it's gone. It's a table. It's not really about God. But in this moment, it's about God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Is everything about God? Sorry,
Leya:God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's just like, light stuff. Yeah, Sadie each weary people are. It's like a lead lead for you got a lead coat on some days. It's just fake in concrete. But
Leya:it's getting harder and harder, even calling you. It's getting harder and harder and harder to hear God's voice. And I think that the way that we can express it, bring it back,
Reverend Ben Cooper:bring it back, bring it back the
Leya:way that we can express it. And the way that we can hear God's voice is through sharing kindness and love with our neighbors. Yeah. Because God is love. And when we're kind of intense neighbors are an expression of that love.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what you're saying it also is if we live, as the Bible expects us to know Allah, yeah, you done it. You don't need to preach. You don't need to teach you don't have to shout from the pulpit. Because living as you live apart as a person lives for Christ. That is the biggest Bible they'll ever read is because you are living out what you believe.
Leya:I've got a quote about that. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:if you if you are living it, but then we come into the bring it into the arena. When you're living for Jesus, the spiritual attack gets higher from the enemy is double here the moment because we are seeking God and there are brothers and sisters that are searching and looking people coming into Christianity people pressing in and going further. And like we know we got friends and ourselves suddenly we go god, this is really wary. So we got different levels of faith. We've got different levels of journey. But as we push into Christ, I also believe our eyes open up to what really is happening in the world. So you become more aware not because you become more or do look at that. Oh, it's because you because good
Leya:impersonation.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Thank you. I think you become spiritually awake. Yeah. But when you become spiritually awake, because the Bible talks about being a watchman,
Leya:I was lost and then I was found. So that was so amazing price for recognize it's one of the favorites fav favorite. What
Reverend Ben Cooper:I write is why Facebook knocked me off every time I play it. What is that all about? Because it's so famous. And they chose me and got the license for it. Oh, yeah. good money to have a license here. Let me know.
Leya:I'll just turn up and sing it with my guitar and then do nothing. Yeah. But um, yeah, I think I think you're right. And I think the thing about it is when you're standing in the church and you're singing with somebody else, it's that thing of having that having their neighbor that you don't necessarily know you only
Reverend Ben Cooper:see him every Sunday your unity,
Leya:but it's the same person you probably sit next to every time because that
Reverend Ben Cooper:does happen does happen. Yeah.
Leya:That feeling of being with your neighbor and being in your brothers and your sisters. I missed that
Reverend Ben Cooper:there. There is something powerful about being in the presence of worship with other believers. I'm talking about true worship. I'm not talking about fake all I'm talking about being sincere and being open, open in your heart opening your heart. That's true or
Leya:not, you're opening your heart up. And you're going, it's an exchange of light.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You're just you're expressing, so when you worship and others are worshiping with you. We've got a great brother of this church. Good for anyone mommy mentioned his name Steve valla. Voice we love Steve, give him a client. Steve will love you.
Leya:When he sings, Lord rein in me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow. I'll tell you what. Bill the funder, that is his Chairman the presence. Steve Allah has been gifted with a voice
Leya:whenever that gets chosen. Whenever that gets chosen, Evangelion goes to the front and sings. When that one comes on, she always looks at me and we both look at him, because we know it's going to come is happening. Let's bring in the fire. Steve.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That is now got it. Now it will, it will tickle me when he sees me. That's what it will do. It will take him tickle me. He's got such a powerful, God given gift. Not strong. And I've met many, many singers. But there is something about Steve's anointing where God uses Steve in that vocal area
Leya:himself up and he's open. He's opened himself and just got an ear with it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But I can't I can't explain how it makes me feel. I was in the Yes, like when she sings in the spirit and when, but, but this is what's really important about our brother Steve. He will only sing when he had been prompted by God. That is special. Yeah. He's a special man.
Leya:He's very special man got a lot of results. I mean, I gotta tell you, this is the same person that's in two blocks in a Bible. That's my
Reverend Ben Cooper:brother. Yeah.
Leya:If you want to know we're talking about his two blokes in a Bible, which is also a podcast that comes out a week later.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He if you want to know anything, you just go watch it. And he goes, I go so deep. I know. He thought
Leya:he takes it all on. It's like an empathetic thing. you empathize deeply with Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I tell you what, I I look up.
Leya:I mean, you got a bit of a man crush.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, yeah. Come on. I'll take his baby. I love Steve. We love Steve Anyway, what we're talking about.
Leya:Love your neighbor. But we keep going off. I tell you, what is the embodiment. Let your light so shine,
Reverend Ben Cooper:let your light shine.
Leya:Yeah, Let your light so shine is one of my favorites before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father, which is in heaven.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that we can we can look at that and bring a bit of a parallel with that content. So let your light shine so light come shine.
Leya:That's Matthew 516. So it would be a parallel, Luke.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So to let your light shine, the only way you can let your light shine is because he is the light of the world. So the only way you can let your light shine is to live for Christ.
Leya:Yeah. And we're talking about 11 for Christ. Yeah, food, for doing kindness, and loving your neighbors. And in, come on your enemies,
Reverend Ben Cooper:love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you.
Leya:And thou shalt not fear bear false witness against your neighbor. Goodness gracious. So it goes all the way back again, comes all the way back there. Yeah, all the way back to the 10 commandments.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He wrote them into I personally
Leya:did headless to tablets. I didn't know he went. He went down to Tesco. He got himself a deal. Got a couple, two new ones brand new ones they were then and then he went up to the top of the mountain plugged in to the burning bush, which is like a high power source.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because he was with he was with the water Wi Fi. Yeah. At the bush.
Leya:What if What if they What if they asked me who
Reverend Ben Cooper:am I am the Wi Fi what network you on? Just tell him? I am network. Yeah.
Leya:But the thing is, we love because he first loved us.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that's what we're saying. That you know, you know, we're in a bit of a laugh and a bit of it stay. This is really important because we got to try and keep each other laughing and smiling. Love is really powerful, isn't it? Yeah. So when
Leya:it's like a big orb.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Just a different world.
Leya:No, like a circle like a sphere. Oh, he's
Reverend Ben Cooper:talking about science.
Leya:I'm not talking about satanic stuff is
Reverend Ben Cooper:terrible.
Leya:I'm talking about sphere. Was moment is this lots Love is like a sphere, it's different facets. The center of a diamond inside a sphere is constantly spinning and moving and changing and swirling. There's so many facets, which is why it's impossible to describe God and it's impossible just quiet now.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You think you've got these great theologians out there you've got these great brothers and sisters that explore the Word of God. And for years they just studying just one thing God just just concentrate on that and you can't explain in Kenya you actually the human being cannot articulate and grasp Yeah, we read about it. You know, we read about the power how God it, but you can't absorb that because he is so powerful. I think if I is all things I know he says that, that we carry the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit and we are filled to the full measure. But somehow, if I really knew what it was think I'd explode here.
Leya:Maybe that's why he said I am he. There was no way that he could say anything else. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:but that's such a simple
Leya:I am. I am. I am so who
Reverend Ben Cooper:Moses says. So whom are gonna tell?
Leya:What do you say? How do you say I am What? I am you? I am them. I am the air that you're breathing. I am that sheep over there that you've been looking after? I'm your wife. I'm your son. I'm your dad. I'm your mum. I
Reverend Ben Cooper:just tell them I am just two words. That dyslexic not bad. Am I quite educated?
Leya:You're very educated.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm not having this anymore. Think about it for a minute. Look. How was statement? The world likes to get great big words together know that God just went. Moses.
Leya:I am.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I am. Moses. All right. So there must have been because if someone if you went or if you didn't work, yeah. And they said I am the guy who's iron. Yeah. What are you talking about?
Leya:I am from Iran. I am the cat. People cats. But I am. I am
Reverend Ben Cooper:I am. That that just blows my free little Brian.
Leya:The thing is though, he describes himself as I am, but then other people say God is love.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So but I'm just thinking, but what made Moses go Okay, I'll go and tell him that. Because he does. But he's just such a small
Leya:because he's so faithful. Yeah, but he just thought
Reverend Ben Cooper:of sending us then to go and face all this trouble.
Leya:I am I am.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The power in that word. I am and then and then we got time to look at it now but maybe next time we're looking at the seven Rams in. In john.
Leya:He just blowing this up.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We won't do it now. Look, he said I love your enemies. Yeah, persecute those. Now he doesn't say persecute
Leya:the one who should also love his brother. And also, don't just pretend to love others.
Reverend Ben Cooper:See, there we go.
Leya:Don't just pretend to love others really love them hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good. Love each other with genuine and affection and take delight in honoring each other through Romans 12 910. I'm getting better at dropping in those scripture bits and doing great. Good. You've been a theological college or theological college. And yeah, but I think that's why it's pretend it Don't pretend be real. Be true. Be honest. In your love.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The cloud to each other. This throws me off point a little bit. Come on in love. Now. I'm just saying Love your enemies, and pray for those that persecute you. That's a big one. Oh, that's big. So you've got this big drum beating all day, year after year, week after week. So let's just take this I know we shouldn't really take this but let's think about lockdown and all those that are in relationships are not very good.
Leya:That's hard. That's hard. That is a hard subject. No,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's a really hard but it's so real. It's so real with what we hear going on around the world to that one guy that the cogs of it, but when you when you think
Leya:about the conversation that we won't be able to get
Reverend Ben Cooper:what I mean is there's just a little a little seed. So there Yeah, because you're locked in with someone that is a narcissistic control freak. Curl, crawl. And you and you are a believer
Leya:damaged themselves. Exactly. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We pray for them as well. So not only just a script to tell me, it tells me very clearly. So they might be your family, they might be married, you might be with them. You did all that. Even in a workplace scenario, you're in a team. Yeah. You're in a team. And when all the other team around there are they, and then it changes dinner, you know, or you got someone that is really blatantly just coming at you,
Leya:you know, I've had that at work. And that was when I first started coming to the church, which is five years ago, by the way now. So basically, it was happening, you know, found out that somebody was being a bit of a bully, like behind the back. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:there we go. bullying. Yeah.
Leya:So what I did was I just kept praying the whole time trying to deal with it in the most loving way.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Secure ID Yeah.
Leya:Not perfect. I was trying to take them. Really, really, really trying really hard not to let anger eat me
Reverend Ben Cooper:up. Yeah, because that's what happens.
Leya:Because I was thinking, to be honest with you, you're not that good of bully, because I didn't even know you were bullying me. Somebody else had to say to me, this person is not being nice to you. And then suddenly, the light went out. I didn't even realize that, you know, so yeah, the thing that I did was I prayed about it. And then eventually, I got to the point where I was probably this anymore and reported it. But for a long time, I tried really hard. So you
Reverend Ben Cooper:have to go through the emotional fault that hang on, this person doesn't quite like me from you know, this person is coming against me this person, you know, so we have all the unfortunate offered
Leya:by that that doesn't, that doesn't give me anxiety, what I was thinking I was making my life very easy. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think everybody loves me.
Leya:Everybody does love. Yeah. But what I did was I spent a lot of time just going, Lord, please help them find a way out of this helped them find a way to get a shout out because that person is when you're trying to do damage. And the thing is, this person was Christian as well or he
Reverend Ben Cooper:professes to be a Christian. You know what, the more I'm learning through this lockdown. The more I'm learning is we can say we are Christians. And that's not got nothing to do with the way that we live. Yeah, because you could look at David look at David for a moment. David had a heart after God. Did you study that? And you understand what that mean? thought he was an adulterer. He entered into a bit of all sorts of things RG bar g RG bar G, he gave us a note, he gave a little message to someone's husband sent him in the front line getting popped off. Oh, David, but But what this is, man, if you if you study King David, I'm not enjoying
Leya:learning about King David, you're
Reverend Ben Cooper:trying to say use the word Christian starts to make you think are? Am I Are they really a Christian? Now they just go into church? Is it just the Pharisees and the Sadducees making a noise? to look good to sound good, because to say that I'm a Christian. I'm never going to live completely and absolutely completely wholly impure, because I will send them for short with no regret. So there comes a point in our lives where we slip we slide we drop we revise. But that's that's, that's not what
Leya:you really agree.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's important understanding. I said the wrong thing, but that's important to oppose them in it because that's the Holy Spirit. Bringing conviction. Right? So so what I'm trying to say is, I believe the word Christian I'm a Christian has been used too loosely.
Leya:Now, we know for 20 you're thinking about one john Ford, when
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think about now thinking about saying wait a minute. Read it come when you can.
Leya:Someone says I love God but hates a Christian brother or sister that person is a liar. Well, there
Reverend Ben Cooper:you go. Right. So look, so look. So the word Christian bring comes into the framework. We can all say anyone can say they're a Christian. Now, two things we got to look at carefully. Am I living for Jesus? I'm trying to live for Jesus. But the flesh is weak. But the unwilling spirit is ready. So right. I've got an issue already. Yeah, I'm going to be fighting myself a lot. But But then I have to talk about salvation. Because I think, I think sometimes we need to change our terminology, the way we speak. Am I saved are they saved because anyone can call themselves a Christian. But when you got someone that is a Christian, like you're talking about Is that he's bringing that sort of stuff you have to say they call themselves a Christian, but are they saved? Do you know what there's a difference?
Leya:Somebody that was not a Christian came to me and said that person says they were Christian, you know? Well, there you go.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So I know we're gonna have to listen this guy here, but I'm not living right. I'm not living right by a longshot.
Leya:But there is always, always always the chance for redemption, redemption.
Reverend Ben Cooper:redemption is always always in the arena,
Leya:which is why I kept praying the whole times. I have really want that person. Yes, to find the redemption. I really want that person to work through their issues. I want them to have their their image healed, because then that will reflect upon the way that they treat the world.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. And I
Leya:don't believe for one minute that the way that they were treating me had anything to do with me. Not one. Not one thing, right. And I've never felt that way about bullies. It's not nothing to do with me. It's all about them. I feel that's 100%. Right. I'm not ashamed to tell the story.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because it's the person. The one that is the bully is the one with the issue. Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah,
Leya:they're the one that is not loving their neighbor is not loving their enemy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So can we say that a person or that is really saved? I suppose? Well, no, because
Leya:even Jesus had a slip up when he went to that church. And he got rid of them kicked him out,
Reverend Ben Cooper:flip the table over flip it.
Leya:He didn't love his enemy at that point, did he? He was your kid. He was not standing there going. I love my enemy. He was a whip he was a human being he was God the man or Jesus the man brood of vipers. Yeah. And he became angry and that's why I believe that why don't you go and tell the story what story tell the story of when he went in
Reverend Ben Cooper:his transit van wanted to take time out to do so. Yeah, yeah, we just finished working on a couple of doors jumps in the transit van cuz every county has a transit van what kind of doors where they want a transit van or
Leya:composite when they when they want doors?
Reverend Ben Cooper:This is a fascinating often think about things like this. Yeah, every door that he hung on every piece of wood that he can't guess what? Well, he grew it. Think about it.
Leya:He could have just looked at it and shaped it could have shaped it in the way it was growing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Did I be done that? I bet Yeah, the salmon do some days, his feet up when I was watching the go door, hang yourself.
Leya:But what I'm saying is he could have grown the tree in shape of a chair, or a table. Or he could have shaped the tree into the shape of clarinet. But it didn't
Reverend Ben Cooper:go right as a manhood log takes over and firewood, put yourself in a stove. I will sit back.
Leya:I believe he would have done that though. Because that would be like a magic trick.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, but you are God.
Leya:Yeah. But it's not so so suave.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But you are God and
Leya:yet, it's like when when Moses went with this stick and threw it on the floor and it became a snake and then the Sorcerer's came minimate Marga do that. And they did the same. True. Do you know I mean, it has to go beyond parlor has to be it has to be something that is going to change people's lives. Hence,
Reverend Ben Cooper:this Bible says it is I want to hear it. You got Abby's transit van aka physically hang in the doors. He's still wearing his belt his tool bag up. He got in the van drove back to his father's house went inside. Bush about an hour downside of it. Me and we'll cut Obama's Oh, and now I've come into my father's house and you've made it into a den of iniquity. You've got the cash counters in you got the accountants in. You've got money. flicks over the table makes a whip. Get out. How do you make the whip? He told it? What? Come forth.
Leya:No did a
Reverend Ben Cooper:cold he just made it just got whipped together enough to represent
Leya:this garment. And the idea touch.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It turned out to come get caught in it. Yeah, so yeah. So completely different. The way you think about that, you know, Jesus got angry.
Leya:Exactly. It is
Reverend Ben Cooper:the moment of flipped humanity. So it was like, cow,
Leya:if enough of you. Yes. China sell your wares in this place. Yeah. And you
Reverend Ben Cooper:cannot love two Gods this house should be called a house of prayer. You've turned it into a den of iniquity. Yeah.
Leya:Because you've bought money. Is that what we're saying?
Reverend Ben Cooper:So we're saying the prosperity gospel when you bring your God We can't serve to God.
Leya:Yeah. So he went a bit. He lost it quite angry. He got angry. So read and he lost it. Do you think afterwards? I mean, it was part of the plan. It had to happen. So that was part of that had to happen. But do you think afterwards he went on? No. Oh, no, that wasn't right. No, I shouldn't have done that. I lost my temper. And in losing my temper. I've shown people that it's okay to lose your temper. Reason What did you go I'm a human being and I've just been really out of order.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's like when you look at the text where the Bible says if someone has harmed you and and you've gone in and you've gone into their house, shake the dust off your feet before you leave the house. Is there comes a point when you when you have to go Do you know what I'm not having that no more. Just because just because you are a Christian doesn't mean to say you're a doormat. You
Leya:know what, you know, walk over, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:there comes a point when you not get angry or mad angry. But there comes a point you say you have to stand
Leya:up and say and say I'm a human being I
Reverend Ben Cooper:am a healer disrespect our feelings. Yeah. So is that as Christ was in that point, but he says he flicked the tables over so to flick the tables over his son for my strong
Leya:feeling that that would have been a heavy wooden table that it was like it was not one of them ones, we have to flip it upside down and kick the legs into place. You know, the one that wasn't? It was a proper table. So yes,
Reverend Ben Cooper:true. But you gotta remember, he holds the whole world in His hands.
Leya:If he had a hammer.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So he is strong. He is strong.
Leya:And yeah, he is strong. Yay.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We love the Scripture. Yeah, so
Leya:what do you think the lesson is that the lesson is that you have to stand up for yourself at some point, you
Reverend Ben Cooper:have to come to a point where you have to
Leya:stand up for your integrity in your ethics, your belief,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, and your understanding and your faith where you don't get angry as the world gets angry. But the Bible says come let us reason together. So with sometimes with reasoning, it can get a little bit I don't know. But we're I don't think the world is the world is angry, isn't it? The world is angry generally so angry, so angry, you can easily
Leya:getting angry at the moment. We are in the middle of an international pandemic, a global pandemic. Yeah. And there are 1000s of people dying in this country every day. Yeah, nevermind the rest of the world. Yeah, sure. We've got more vaccines in this country than anyone else in the world. And we're hoarding them. And there are places like Brazil, and third world countries. Any vaccines at all? We are getting angry because we can't go on a summer holiday.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow,
Leya:what is wrong with people?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, life is precious. It's all
Leya:over the news this week. Some word I
Reverend Ben Cooper:can't get me flip flops out.
Leya:You live in people suffering? Yes, right is okay. As long as you get your holiday or your holiday rates above other, but it doesn't come down to a holiday. It's about people's possessions, their wares, their self indulgence, come in above other people's and that's what I'm about to know. love thy neighbor, tie. Love your brothers and your sisters love your brothers and sisters.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Love your enemies. Pray for those that persecuted heavy staff this heavy and the only way we're going to do that is by keep calling on average agents help me Lord, guide me keep me strong today. Lord, when trouble arises at work, Lord, help me Lord, when I'm trapped in a house again today. Working and I've got the kids flying around a wall and I've got this and in that and then give me patience. Give me stimulation. See me stability. I made your Lord because I believe
Leya:that it starts with Yeah, amen. I believe it starts with a little a little spark of acceptance.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Embrace grace. So
Leya:it starts with that person's playing their music too loud.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that
Leya:person's getting a building job done in their house or that person's put some trees up in their yard. That person's leaves a committee mind. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, starts doing that. And then the next thing is, oh, now they've done this. Oh, no, they've done that. And now they got to start by going. Good for them. pray, Lord, bless
Reverend Ben Cooper:them, bless them. But it comes back to what we've been talking about. Isn't it really, that we haven't really explored? Gone? It's got to be from the heart. That's the key thing. Jeremy gives you the peace, Jeremiah 2912 and 13. It's really clear. It says Ron, other plans will have for you declares the Lord plans not to harm but to give you a hope and a future. But then it says and he goes on a bit further without the rest it says if you follow me with all your heart There is a condition, following Christ following God with all of your heart. That's the heart. I can speak it. I can shout it. I can tolerate. I can present it beautifully. Yeah, but if it's not from my heart, it's nothing. I think it's all in vain. If somebody's
Leya:sitting at home now, and they're full of bitterness, because they're like, next door neighbor has done this or that was done that. Fake it till you make it baby.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Just start. Just start start. Start by changing the way. Yeah, good for them.
Leya:They're having a party on a Friday night. Or during a lockdown now.
Reverend Ben Cooper:They might have a pie in their bubble. We
Leya:might beat them and they family listen to some music Valentine's weekend. I don't believe in Valentine's because I believe in God. But it could be that they're having a party with them and their spouse. You know, they could be just having fun. Just go Yeah, okay, that's nice for them. Yeah. Let them have a barbecue in the back garden. Yeah, okay. That's nice for them. Don't go like
Reverend Ben Cooper:your chicken.
Leya:Chicken on Mr. TV as cutting off the sun in my garden. Sorry, I meant. These are the few of the things that I hear around the world about people not loving their their neighbor. We've all seen it on the telly. Was that documentary? nasty neighbors. Yeah, neighbor wars and all that kind of falls. Yeah, but that's not our good neighbors become good friends. Well, waste of life when you
Reverend Ben Cooper:go watch that.
Leya:I still love it when I was about four. No watch friends. But when I was a child, I spoke like a child. And now I don't watch neighbors.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's just washing over me. So you know, are we gonna finish this?
Leya:Love your neighbor. Go and get them a bunch of flowers this weekend. Go and get your neighbor, your elderly neighbor. Go and get them something. ring the doorbell. Leave it on the doorstep. Barbara Boxer roses only cost a pound. Yeah, she can't afford a pound. Yeah, go and sweep their drive during the snow. Put some salt and grit out on their bed. silo. Go and say hello. Knock on the door wear a mask. Yeah. So I'm just wondering, are you right?
Reverend Ben Cooper:But the problem is, so I'll just go satisfy about a two meter distance. Go on. Watch that, if you don't
Leya:mind.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We'll take a look. Right? Yeah, we're solid. Yeah.
Leya:But just do some go. Right? I challenge you to go knock on your next door neighbor's door or your neighbor in your road or you're a bit worried about or just a friend and say to them, I'm going down the shop Leya or I'm ordering a home delivery or car status. Is there anything you want? I can't I'm driving past usually. Is there any offer? Yeah. Just go and be kind Prosecco smile at someone walk around the street and someone's walking towards you. Or you're on the job. And someone's sitting opposite you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, smile.
Leya:I can't see your smile on your your mouth. But I can see your eyes. Just give someone a lift. help someone up the stairs with a pram? Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, it feels like we've lost the act of community. Morning. Are you? Yeah.
Leya:You know that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Good morning. Are you okay? You will out the door for you to know what a lovely way of finishing. Just do that nice. Kindness out the door and for your enemy.
Leya:I think it was. Somebody said in a world where you can be anything be kind.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Be kind. What a beautiful word Be kind. Well, you've been listening
Leya:to the lovely, Reverend Benjamin Leonard Cooper and the kind leya Jane Moore.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We're finished. You can find us on buzzsprout Spotify
Leya:Apple Music you got next one I Heart Radio. Google Play Alexa, Facebook Instagram,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yoko. We thank you so much for sharing everything. We know we hope we haven't offended you by a little bit of joking around in the Scripture. We don't mean it. to that degree you understand? You know
Leya:if you need me to get a translator from us morally Aksum. I can't get someone to do that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, we need someone from swag land.
Leya:Yeah, get your wife into it. Get Chris to come in and be our translator she can translate my lingo translator translator she'll say what Leya is trying to say hello. crystals not spring like that night that right? Okay, you sprout Spotify Apple Music iHeartRadio Google Play Alexa, Facebook, Instagram,
Reverend Ben Cooper:YouTube. Bosh Ignite. We'll catch you next week. God bless.