Hello and welcome. Thank you for joining us here this afternoon in Elim Church in Swanee as you join us for this podcast wherever you are around the world, as you listen through the great platforms of buzzsprout and social media and many other means that we are on iHeartRadio Google Play Alexa and so many more. You're listening to myself, Reverend Benjamin Leonard Cooper, and we have Sondra with us today as we are discussing the suffering church and every Thursday as we gather around the mic, so as we try to keep it very gentle and very light, but the last few weeks we have pressed a little bit deeper. But we think thanks to God for that, because we do believe that God is guiding us through these conversations and we are bringing this this information to light that is available for everyone through through the great power of the media and through literature that Sandra has for. We have opened doors we have Barnabas, we have release International. And I know I keep mentioning Transworld radio, but we will look into that as well. But we welcome Sondra Good morning, Sondra.
Sandra Robson:Good morning.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's lovely to have you with us today. I know we're suffering with a bit of our sinuses today and all that sort of stuff we've just prayed for Sondra. And we thank God for Sondra, she is relentless in this ministry. And it is very, very important that we pray for Sandra as she studies as she reads. Even recapping and going back over what we went over the last few weeks of sexual violence, it really does put a strain on your mind when you study when you start to read this. So we thank God for Sondra and everybody, all the missionaries around the world as they bring this as they bring all this out of the darkness into the light. That's what's important. Sandra, Good morning.
Sandra Robson:Hello.
Reverend Ben Cooper:How are we today? What are we looking at?
Sandra Robson:Well, last week, we looked at the declaration of humanity. And we said that this could be a great tool for preventing sexual violence in conflict and ending the stigma facing survivors and children. Yeah, so we're praying for lots of faith leaders to sign up to this. And then in signing up to it, what it says as we went through it last week, that they will actually put that into practice. And their eyes will be open to the practices that are going on in their communities that maybe they weren't aware of. It's so easy when it's part of your day to day. And it's always how it's been like we say about traditions don't like that in church. You just why did you do that? Well, because we've always done it always. That's how it's always been done. Well, why don't you know? And so you know, thinking about loving your neighbor as yourself. And the fact that yes, it is terrible that these women have ended up with babies through you know rape, but the fact is that they still need that be loved and that child is a child and God brought that child into the world so it's not
Reverend Ben Cooper:this whole thing of it's the side thinking of life
Sandra Robson:and and that these people did you know these women need love and need that affirmation and nurturing Yes, Orangemen. It is a great shock to the community. And it must be very difficult for them.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, you said sorry. In that song. We say it's a big shock to the, to the to the community. But what about as you just said, the shock to the beautiful woman that's had to go through beginning to end? Yes. And then reliving it and dealing with it, and then looking at this beautiful little child, but your child will trigger every emotion under the sun. Yes. So and
Sandra Robson:of course, you know, the perpetrators know this, yes. why they do it? Well, they do. And they know and they interesting that they've studied the community more than other people have. So, you know, open doors and that have looked at it. And and so they're aware that if these women go back what will happen? And so that needs to change, and we pray that that will change. And that was why I wrote this declaration to make us aware of the needs for the stigma, stigma, stigmatism of the survivors, and condemning and and redefining what rape is and associated violence, and you know, committing those two, who sign it to preventing it. Yeah, and affirming the innocence of the survivors. So those were the points that we brought out last week. And then we looked at how women are being helped and supported, as well as this and that there are different organizations doing things like trauma counseling, which is very needed in these, you know, the war torn areas, like we said, where the conflict were in Iraq in it In Syria, and in Nigeria, and these places, and how also this women's groups in different places have looked at my Mr as well. And continue to pray for that situation. And so today, I was looking at release International, and their magazine and saw something about how they're supporting women in Egypt. And so then I thought, Well, perhaps I should do you know, more than just talk about what's happening with the women in Egypt? Perhaps we should look at Egypt in itself and think about the persecution that's going on in Egypt. And so that's what I thought we could have a look at today. So some background on Egypt, and is that 16 point 3 million are Christians. That's about 16%. of the population
Reverend Ben Cooper:only 16%. Yeah. But it's still still a massive number. It is considering what's going on in Egypt and what has happened and where the historical stuff. Go back to Exodus. Go right back into days of Pharaoh. Yeah. When you it's always been anti anti anti spreadsheet for 1000s of years.
Sandra Robson:And that's what I started to look at. Yeah, about how it Where does it go? Go back to? And what are the issues that are still affecting Christians today? And yes, so yeah, Christianity dates back to the first century AD there.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, right back,
Sandra Robson:and you've got Coptic Christians, to Christian church. And, but the main religion is Islam, of course. And so that's where a lot of issues or care, because that is, you know, whatever, that what everybody is to believe, you know, they want the society is built around Islam. And you know, and Christianity doesn't fit, doesn't fit and has to go be pushed is pushed onto the side. And this is honestly
Reverend Ben Cooper:second class. Yeah. Sandra, that's exactly what you find when, when Moses went to Pharaoh. And he said, Look, we want to go and have a free day festival, as the scripture says, In Exodus want to have a free day festival. We don't want to go and worship our God when our worship and we want to sacrifice of praise. And Pharaoh said, Who is this God, you are not leaving this place? So that is so scriptural that this has got roots going back 1000s of years? Yes. The God of Israel was not allowed to be worshipped. And we know the story in Exodus. But it's this is nothing new under the sun, is it? No,
Sandra Robson:no. I mean, I was looking at the news last night and Egypt was on news. Okay. Do you see that? Since the uprising to the president and on what's happened since then, years already, yeah, they were looking at, you know, what's happened, you know, the different political things that happened after that, and where they are today. And sure, you know, and it's a very difficult situation. There's a lot of unemployment, a lot of unrest. A lot of lawlessness going on. It's very, it's a very sad situation. Egypt is under a state of emergency still not so good. And, you know, Barnabas Fund. Yeah. And, and, you know, they're still on alert for Islamic attacks. Wow, they did have issues with ISIS. And, you know, we know that some years ago, Palm Sunday, 2017. And there were two churches were attacked
Reverend Ben Cooper:by them very violently. Yeah, very violent.
Sandra Robson:And, and, you know, it says that also last year, and the attack was foiled. So praise God about that, that, you know, there was another attack that was going to take
Reverend Ben Cooper:place. It's biblical, isn't it? All the way through? This is Egypt is very well documented in the Scripture. How oppressive it's been always to God, the God of Israel. Yeah. Christianity. So, so we are seeing now I believe, obviously, for the power of technology and everything we have. It has been mushroomed over the last few years because of the way that we connect through media. But it's always been there because you see that in the Old Testament.
Sandra Robson:Yeah. So it's the somewhere else I was reading. It said that Egypt's constitution guarantees freedom of Religion however, Christians are treated as second class citizens, especially Muslim back most Muslim background believers. And so and the place where most persecution occurs in is in Upper Egypt, in the rural communities were
Reverend Ben Cooper:hidden. And this is Saturday where maybe it's a bit more hidden.
Sandra Robson:Yeah, I think, you know, there's more mixing goes on in the cities.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I gather a bit more westernized. Yeah. A bit more busy. Over. Yeah. getting on with the busy ness of the humdrum of life. But yeah, maybe in the villages bit more traditional? Yes. back in time.
Sandra Robson:Yeah. This apparently there's this surface movement that's very prevalent. And they had a great influence, Oh, wow. exerted a strong influence on the rural community due to high levels of illiteracy and poverty, the Sufi movement, I looked into that, and that is a pure form of Islam. And they support Sharia law. And so they again, see everybody else, as you know, yeah. Not doing the right thing. And, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:against, completely,
Sandra Robson:yes, against the gospel. So it's very hard for people there. But the church is there and it is growing. And people, you know, is being supported. And, yeah, so we're going to have a look at how that is happening. So how the next thing is, how is it being persecuted? Well, we've said terrorist attacks on churches, as I'm just mentioned, and as we say, Praise God that another attack was foiled. And that apparently, there's a lot of Christians in the elmyra, part of Cairo. And there's oppression, and it's quite complex. And there's discrimination. And a lot of that is due to the ancient laws from the seventh century. And that's the pact of Umar. And there's a long list of rules. And some of them that affect Christians today are stopping Christians sharing the gospel limits employment opportunities, non Muslims can't. And can't lead, govern or employ Muslim.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow.
Sandra Robson:Yeah, whoa. And that's been there since the seventh century, long time. But some interesting movements have occurred through president al Sisi, which is a positive thing. There's still but they still have an impact on Christianity today. And so there's much illiteracy, and poverty, they can be falsely accused. And the community. This is harassment, mob violence. And it's not dealt with. There's a lack of law enforcement and local authorities, it seems to be, as it says at a community level that the these things happen. And so local authorities I'm willing to protect, therefore, they're vulnerable to attack. And I do remember, I was at an open doors conference. And there was a girl who was there from Egypt. And she was telling us about her father and how he had to close his store. So when I was reading this, it's interesting how these things.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Remember, it comes back
Sandra Robson:comes back. Yeah. On a DVD as Yeah, DVD, yeah. about, you know, what happened? And basically, and her dad ran a thriving stole in a marketplace. And then this Muslim guy decided he wants to set up business nearby. Yeah. And it does seem, you know, that it was a thing of jealousy. And it's very sad. That anyway, it escalated, he he kept shouting about his words and trying to drown out what her dad was doing. Yeah. And and then he started to falsely accuse him of things and say that it hurt him. He actually inflicted injuries on himself physical Yeah. Well, and then went to the police and instead of the police investigating it really well they didn't they just arrested her father. And and this is what happens they take the side of the Muslim because of the law
Reverend Ben Cooper:of the last
Sandra Robson:Yeah, you know, and they always think badly of the other person they can't be sure that not trustworthy. And, and she said about how she prayed and she couldn't Stand by they were going through this, and how the Lord just poured his grace and how unity, you know, came around them. And, you know, her dad did have to move his his stall. And, you know, there wasn't a particular ending to this, but I just, you know, remember that and what they went through, but how she said how God kept them. Great. How Yeah, her faith became real to her in that time, and how her father didn't, you know, he continued to love his neighbor, and he probably pray for your enemy. Goodness,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that is Christianity at a new level, so that,
Sandra Robson:you know, really stuck. Yeah, my memory, you know, and, and they were, they were being supported and encouraged and being helped. And, you know, when those other sites set up business, somewhere else, but it was sad that that happened, and that they that, that, you know, people feel they can do that. But that's what happens. That's to
Reverend Ben Cooper:bring peace.
Sandra Robson:There is also sexual violence and abuse of women, particularly widows. Tibet. Yeah. And Muslim background believers are very much
Reverend Ben Cooper:targeted,
Sandra Robson:targeted, and the kidnapping of girls, which we talked about some forced marriages. So these are all the persecution that go on. And then there's the it's illegal to worship in an unlicensed church building.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And how do we get a license for the government? Yes,
Sandra Robson:but that's where there has been encouragement that in 2016, yeah. One of these old laws about was repealed, the restrictions were repealed. And, and so now, you know, more of that's going on, and this President has been in support of that. So that's, that's good. And in October 2020, the 1738 out of 3730 applicants, so a third are getting through. So that's something to pray about that that will speed up, there are costs for that to speed up to enable them to have a place. And then, yeah, the, you know, the converse of you said, I mean, they can be abused, tortured, or even killed, and unless they recant, but still, coming to Jesus face persecution comes from within their families, and the state makes it impossible for them to get official recognition of their conversion. And it's difficult to update ID documents. So what is life like for Christians? This, these are a couple of stories that I found. And again, just sharing God's grace, so maybe that you know, that verse is,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, that first for anyone who
Sandra Robson:says, well, Peter 510, right. So this, I was I was quite shocked about this when I when I
Reverend Ben Cooper:read this, okay, let's read it.
Sandra Robson:Okay. But again, it shows just how good news in these situations right? After attending church on a Sunday, this is about Marcus. And what's happened to him and his family, as for the event visited a clinic of a Muslim friend. So that shows me that in the towns and cities that you know, people are friends with forget their religion, and they, you know, they are friends. Yes, there's kindness and they see each other for who they are. That's why it's so important. Anyway, to young man. A little while before this, a Palestinian immigrants, with a strict view of Islam arrived in the city of El Arish and started threatening local Christians. They distributed leaflets telling believers to leave or die,
Reverend Ben Cooper:leave or die. Yeah, that simple leave or die. Yeah, no mission.
Sandra Robson:And, and what happened was, it was just a random, a random attack. He he came out of the clinic and there were two young men masked and It entered the pharmacy and tracked my father outside. And they asked him to kneel in the street and they put a gun to my father's head and told him to convert to Islam. But he shook his head and they shot him.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh my goodness.
Sandra Robson:Yeah, that's what fast.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that quick amount of his own business out of his own store,
Sandra Robson:but out of his friend, it was
Reverend Ben Cooper:rather in a public view, no messing about and shut him in straight. Yeah. Yeah. Disgusting.
Sandra Robson:The loss of his father promises. In other words, in Marcus's life, he was a teenager, a
Reverend Ben Cooper:gracious man,
Sandra Robson:his mother shares Mark was used to be a difficult teenager. But after the mad I, all of a sudden I found him reading his Bible and praying, gosh, he started going to church often studied harder, and has changed as a person. And that's him.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That young man we're looking at.
Sandra Robson:Man now in his 20s,
Reverend Ben Cooper:in his 20s, and he was 1617, when he experienced the loss of his father in a brutal way. evil, evil people hiding behind the word of religion. Yeah.
Sandra Robson:And Marcus shares. What inspired him says My father was when my father was still alive. He woke up every morning at 5am, to study the Bible and pray, that helps me because that helps him become a strong believer, and that's what I do.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So I have no idea. I am trying. I'm trying to get some form of understanding here. of we have a believer, written His word, I know. Our mortality lies in the hands of God. But we have these people around the world that are just so barbaric, so, so easily, easily and easily and evenly LED, but I'm actually struck into Britain struggling to bring this into words, because I feel so upset. So I can't I can't believe it, my natural mind cannot believe that they will go in a store dragger another human being out. Ask them to switch faith. And just to pull the trigger on another human being, for not coming under what they believe. How can they serve any god? is Satan? satanic?
Sandra Robson:It's just Yes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's, it's just evil. He is evil, evil is driving this. This was from me, this this, this? This just this is this. This is barbaric.
Sandra Robson:Yeah, it's, you know, and that's why we need to come and pray. And we need to seek the Lord and, and for his help and his support and who and what we said about that scripture. Yeah, so I do. I mean, when I read that, I really paused and I had to read it again. And it's the thing that these people are coming across the border. And it made me realize how close it is to Israel as well because it's very close. And I was just like, when more Palestinian immigrants coming across saying these things. And I just thought how misled they are how, yeah, how, you know? Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:information. Information is dangerous. Yeah, the truth is good, false, right.
Sandra Robson:You know that false truth. Yeah. Cuz
Reverend Ben Cooper:you believe false truth seek that driven our lie. And I believe it to be the truth
Sandra Robson:and a young man and this is it this thing of extremism that is caring, and they they see our tools and they you know, and yeah, it is very sad. Very, very sad,
Reverend Ben Cooper:very sad. Um,
Sandra Robson:but it as we said, it is deep rooted. And, you know, we've got this other example of a widow and she was verbally threatened first and it then went into physical and sexual abuse and she had to move house in the end. But again, you know, she's been supported and we're going to talk about you know, these things are support but again, it this is what reality. Yeah, this is what is happening to brothers and sisters, and the store story here. So she says, like Martha believers who convert from Islam and backgrounds From sorry, from a Muslim background may face a violent abuse on the streets. Yeah, my one family who had recently turned to Christ told me how one day their young son arrived home to say he had been beaten and robbed by a group of us. They said that worse would happen. If you report the attack to the police, including letting their community know about their newfound faith. The family now are fearful of letting their son leave their house on his own. So that's blackmail isn't to? You know, it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:a high level. So yeah, I mean, just very disconcerting
Sandra Robson:for these families. And these are, you know, in the prayer shield that I get, you know, some of this Yeah, in the prayer shield as well, the
Reverend Ben Cooper:magnitude that this goes on and the, the complete brazenness, that someone can go and do this to another human being a human to a human. Yeah, this brutality that goes on. It's not within our makeup. It's spiritually driven. It's spiritually driven.
Sandra Robson:Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's driven by another world, a dark world, these are any brutality on somebody else at that sort of level, I know, angers rise of frustrations and pride and all that. But then you then you go into another world, you're going to another realm of of evil. Yeah. Come on, give us strength to that. So
Sandra Robson:those are the things and of course, with COVID, there's been even greater pressures, because as I said, these a lot of these Christians, and because of this pact of Omar, they, they don't have very good jobs. They are daily laborers. So they lost their work during the pandemic. Yeah. And, you know, they haven't got the money to feed their families, but the guy that went to see them, and he said, you know, that praise God, that even in the circumstances, she said, you know, that she thank God for the food that she was being given. And he says, Now, a struggling Christian mother was overwhelmed when she received a vitally needed food package. She said that while she feared COVID-19, and its impact on her family, she feared more that our children would literally starve to death, she gave thanks to God that she was now able to stay at home and protect her family from the virus. Amen. This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of the Lord's people, but it's also overflowing many expressions of thanks to God, because of the service by which you have provided proved yourself, and others will praise God. And that's he was quoting Paul and two Corinthians nine. So you're saying about how you know we can help in the small things? Yeah, big, big things, big things.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So partial come into the village food part will come into family. Yeah, in the middle of crisis, just showing an act of kindness, of love, an act of hope. Yeah. In times of despair.
Sandra Robson:Yes. And, and this title here, it says, growing through adversity. So these are the things that God has opened up to support these Christians and particularly the women. And one of the things that release international do our strength to stand women's groups and they support them in practically and it but also with Bible study and prayer. And they've had to be really think outside the box during this COVID how to help and support and so practical help and advice has been given by facilitators to women such as Maria, who lost her husband very early in the crisis, deprived of income. The income he brought in her strength to stand group quickly helped her to start a small project using her sewing skills to make and sell face masks. And then another active member and gihan was infected with a virus early on and quickly lost her strength and felt helpless. The group facilitators quickly put together a plan after getting her to a medical center to be examined. They made sure her drugs were safely delivered to her home and helped her to isolate and she's now recovered and she said thanks to the Lord, and how it is encouraged her faith. Brilliant and yeah She says, I learned a great lesson about how God is always there for his people, and how he brings other members of his body to provide an help and support at the right time. And then the oppression, these the oppression these women face as a result of their Christian faith has not going away. And COVID-19 are simply added to their problems. But they are an example to all of us in how we can use times of challenge to draw near to gold.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So, draw near to go Yeah, makes you think that grace is grace abounds. As the scripture says, as a as the, as the New Testament writer wrote three times I pleaded with the Lord take this from me, but he said, My grace is sufficient. We understand how powerful God's grace is. And it strengthens us to go through His grace His mercy his favor when there's a famine on the land when there's a stripping back when there's things happening that we can't understand or or comprehend why is it happening His grace is more powerful. Yeah, His grace. Well, so we got there, Sondra,
Sandra Robson:well, I mean, I have these like the prayer points that are sort of I've talked about them but they're, they're in the they happen to be in the prayer shield. So as prayer so perhaps if we sort of finish Yeah, finished with those and the Scripture. And so we pray, Lord, that like fat lady that you know, that creative way was found for her to earn a living Lord, we pray that others will also you will show other ways that they can make a living Father God, Jesus, and that it will be bounteous, and you will bless them, and others will see how you are blessing. Please we pray that you will cause businesses to flourish. Lord, we pray for that young boy who was beaten up, Lord, that You will strengthen him and load that because he knows that he's suffering for Jesus Lord, and the encouragement of his family, that he will grow strong, and he will not allow these bullying tactics to, you know, deride him and pray for the family and for their protection, Father, God. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:yes, Lord,
Sandra Robson:we pray that yeah, that even their neighbors will not be concerned, because they know this family, and they will not come against them, as the attackers hope they would, Lord, be their strength, be their cover, be their help in these times, Father, God, we pray for the women who are being abused and violence that is a caring, Lord, for those who are finding the truth, Lord, for those who are coming to Jesus, Lord, and know how precious that is, but I've got this such a sacrifice in that little
Reverend Ben Cooper:Amen. For
Sandra Robson:those who are you bringing from a Muslim background, Lord, and coming into a living faith and then Jesus, Lord, encourage them and strengthen, bring them out? Bring us it is like, you know, that happens. Yes, you know, taking them, you know, from that darkness into the light. And for those who are causing them trouble, Lord, that You will arrest them that they will meet with you. Just as you met with Paul, you can meet with them, and you can turn the wickedness and the violence, Lord, and you can and you can bring peace into situations or do you can stay there hand Father God, we thank you for them the food that has been distributed Lord, and we pray for those that are continuing to do that. And we thank you, Lord, for the standing strong the strength to stand. Amen. women's groups, though, and we thank you for those who are running them and give them strength and courage and wisdom, and support. And Lord, that those friendships will blossom and grow. And farther through that you will speak and communities will be built. Father God, you have wonderful plans, beautiful plans, though, you know, and that's it, having these COMMBUYS eyes of faith, law,
Reverend Ben Cooper:your spirit.
Sandra Robson:So thank you, Lord, we bring these these needs before you load. And we thank You, Lord, that You are in the midst of it your people and you are caring for them, Lord, and as it's Since in one Peter chapter five, verse 10. net but may the God of all grace, Yes, Lord, You called us to his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish and strengthen and settle You, Lord, You are establishing your church there. Thank you that more buildings are being able to open. Thank you The churches are being licensed. Thank you that the President is showing signs though, that he is speaking out about the violence that he is allowing for the churches to be licensed that Americans are a caring No, no, they are carrying slowly, but thank you, Lord, and we pray, Father God, that you will just establish what you want to establish. And thank you that you are strengthening laws. And you're come on to this place for your spirit, son, thank you for this, these testimonies that we hear those and help them to strengthen us in our in our needs, Lord, Amen. And that as we read this to be perfected, established and strengthened and settled in you, to be to Hindi the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Thank you, Jesus, Sandra. We thank God for you. We thank God for your prayers. We thank God for the listeners. And we pray as we've just been praying into the world of the suffering church, and we just pray that God will bring peace that God will guide these leaders. God will move through these dark corners of the globe. And God will set the captives free, but his grace abounds. His mercy and His grace abounds. Three times I pleaded with the Lord, he said, but he said My grace is sufficient for you. For my power is made perfect in weakness. Sandra, thank you for joining us this morning. We thank you to all the listeners around the world, wherever you may be today. May God bless you and strengthen you. You've been listening to Sandra Robson discussing and pulling out some great beautiful pieces of treasure from the Word of God and some great bits of information from the suffering church. I'm Reverend Benjamin Leonard Cooper, have a gr at afternoon. Thank you or listening to these podcas s. Please share them out, go to buzzsprout go to all the ot er platforms that are out there. We thank you so, so much. K ep safe, keeping the Word of od and may God bless you where er you are. In Jesus precious na e. Amen. Am