Welcome, thank you for joining us here on that podcast this morning here at Elim church. You're joining myself Reverend Ben Cooper and we're with Simon Pinchbeck. This morning. He has traveled all the way from our favorite place in the world and we just want to welcome him in this morning as we are doing some church
Simon Pinchbeck:chat all the way down from club Tropicana.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You got your visa
Simon Pinchbeck:harden is so cold and Swanley in it. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's bad. It's bad.
Simon Pinchbeck:You didn't tell me about that. Ben. You just
Reverend Ben Cooper:landed Yeah, exactly. The land of make believe you're in the real real world now
Simon Pinchbeck:my friend. The drinks are free.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The drinks are free. Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's great to be event.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Good to be here.
Simon Pinchbeck:I thought by now you be the bishop. But you're still a Reverend.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Now, I've been demoted. Let's clean up off the table. Yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:yeah. It's a necessity jobs. You
Reverend Ben Cooper:know, all joking aside. That's what it's really about. cleaning out looking after affairs move in. But I love doing what I do. But I just want to just say something we thank God for your life and your family. You know, we have a lot of laughs and a lot of chat. But we've known each other a good time, there were a couple of days. I mean, it's good that we can sit around these mics. And we thank God for the power of the media platforms that we're going out to this morning and the world of podcasting and we want to thank everybody for listening to us the power hour as we just coming off of buzzsprout, Spotify, Google Play I Heart Radio, and so many other platforms that we use and we want to say thank you to all the listeners around the world and there's a quite a few people in America. Listen to us praise Texas.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, what relief burger
Reverend Ben Cooper:land No, seriously, honestly. Yeah. Statistics. That's one of the Terry's a lot of people in Texas. So it's great to get all the feedback and we just want to say wherever you are in the world we want to say my god bless you and strengthen you and thanks for staying with us and sharing everything that we do here through the podcasts and for everything that we're able to achieve and may God bless you wherever you are and just keep keep pressing into Christ and and I've got to keep saying it you know, I might repeat myself but it's really important. May God be with you wherever you are around the world we live in in very trying times. Yeah, but the subject today is an interesting subject in it.
Simon Pinchbeck:It is and funny you should mention Texas because it really when I was over there I first went over to Texas You know, I've been to states many many times for the first time I went over to Texas 2017 I was went on a Christian event there not wasn't a retreat but it was a real event it was called quest and yeah, it was out on a ranch in in in Texas you know and Ben you know here I was you know this guy from Essex and amongst about 20 other loads of these texts and got fantastic and how they were talking about was guns and this certainly our and of course it was a really after the first day or so for what we're doing here. You know, what's going on? They're all talking about their guns out on the hunting they put you know, by the end of the week, I loved it. I loved it. I love these guys and did it
Reverend Ben Cooper:make you feel different? As in like did you feel like forgive me? Do you feel like a real mad well all beefed up
Simon Pinchbeck:well it was just great camaraderie with these guys what
Reverend Ben Cooper:he said saying there
Simon Pinchbeck:yeah okay. You just great camaraderie and you know I would say you know if you if you know it's changing a little bit now was in California so whatever if you like man, if you're a vegetarian you don't like guns and really you don't draw a big truck then Texas new place to be but but when I came off of that and as a great time really a really amazing time you know, and that really showed me a few things but just chilling out the way these guys just chilled out the front porch just maybe having a scotch or or just just hanging out together.
Reverend Ben Cooper:really different. They're really different
Simon Pinchbeck:different and they all have their man caves and but it was just like a normal way of life to them. And then I got a thing I got on a plane came back I thought we have dumbed down man not in the we have dumbed it down to such an extent that we've bought
Reverend Ben Cooper:fairy dust. We've listened.
Simon Pinchbeck:We've listened to the narrative that's coming on and blokes just can't be blood products. anymore we've been accused of been and they found and they end up all over yeah
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah you're not in touch with your feminine side Simon
Simon Pinchbeck:so always always a thing are we being We are the masculine
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think so
Simon Pinchbeck:is it is it a conscious being that we're being the masculine
Reverend Ben Cooper:I will put it like this Forgive me fellas if you live in the UK but we've got no lead in the pencil anymore Well it's on come on come on yeah anytime you see or this is gonna I'm gonna get into some serious The only time the only time you see men won't like st being men but the only time you see is at football when you look at the way football or sports gets men wild up for fighting or whatever that may be but most of the time you look at men and you think we prefer wet lettuce
Simon Pinchbeck:but even then we've lost you know these guys who are shouting and cheering you know Elma terraces anymore to tighten that away so as you sit down you're safe and believe me I've been to to the Emirates the arsenal and I'd still up to cheer someone tapped me on the shoulder went excuse me Can you sit down
Reverend Ben Cooper:we then did Mr. We
Simon Pinchbeck:text how we feel and there's a group in front of me talking about choco mocha lattes and Robert
Reverend Ben Cooper:early latte Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:An even someone shouting and screaming what they're like in their own homes because we there's a narrative out there that you said is completely de masculine guys to such an extent is
Reverend Ben Cooper:that what is is it the spiritual? Do you think that that maybe it's not it's a spiritual Onslow on onto men. The enemy is trying to suppress men by making them feel,
Simon Pinchbeck:I think, I think there's a lot of it been about I also think we, you know, there's just been a couple of generations now. where they've had everything done for
Reverend Ben Cooper:eyebrow threading. I'll get that down.
Simon Pinchbeck:My back
Reverend Ben Cooper:man bag, I got that
Simon Pinchbeck:spray tan.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's got that and got what? I'm looking for a loan if anybody wants to give me 10 grand, I gotta take that.
Simon Pinchbeck:But you know, yeah, he knows as a kid. I used to walk a couple of miles to school a couple miles back, you know, it didn't matter
Reverend Ben Cooper:with cotton walling with cotton walling I think buck calm warning at such a young age wrapping us up in in little cozy blankets and you know, it I think that has effect on on women as well. Both sides of the fence. You know, I when I see a man What does a man what what is a real man, what is a real man? Today we got gender fluidity where you can be who you want when you want, you know, you can wear a dress one day, next day, you can be in a rugby Scrum and there's no but what is a man
Simon Pinchbeck:but there is, you know, let's let's have it right? Yes, no gender fluidity. You're either a man or a woman.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We know. But
Simon Pinchbeck:you're either a man or a woman. You dress out. Yeah, as a woman don't meet your woman. You start out. But you can buy a mate of mine. He's he does a bit of teaching college in Essex. And there's a guy there that teaches mechanics walked in one day in a dress. You know, now years ago. Yeah, man absolutely hammered. Now, you can't.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can't say you can't say a word against anything. And I think society has got us in a position where we can't say anything and and your life. Just being battered with everything. You can't.
Simon Pinchbeck:What if you start now? Yeah, you're in trouble. Yeah. Let me tell you I listen to we'll take this down the line. We'll look at the secular things regarding the secular world. And then we'll see how it relates to the Christian Yeah, because there is a massive comparisons but, but I was listening to a fella Jordan Peterson, his name is he's a secular guy that does a bit of motivational psychological stuff. And he was talking about, he's talking about the zebra. He said, Why does zebra got stripes? Right? He said, Well, that's camouflage. But when you think about it, you know black and white stripes ain't really camouflage. But where it where it works is because zebras go in a herd. And when a predator sees of all they see is black and white stripes they can't pick up in the kitchen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:So they did an experiment. They got hold of a zebra and they painted a great big red circle on it. Fill in red circle. And you know what happened? Well, the line is the one with a red circle. Because it's so honed in on the
Reverend Ben Cooper:home on it, it changed its appearance, or what's the moral of that story? Don't get rid of
Simon Pinchbeck:it. If you stick your head above the parapet if you're if you're gonna get smashed, you're
Reverend Ben Cooper:gonna get hammered. You're gonna get that. So there we have a herd mentality
Simon Pinchbeck:herd mentality. So we see
Reverend Ben Cooper:this in the animal world, we see this very clearly of what's going on there. Very, very clearly, we see that so clear, in that in the world of, of nature and what we're talking about. But also that is, that is what we see today. We are being herded. So if a man stands up for what he believes in his heart, yeah, he's gonna get struck by the line of society and politics, where politics is squeezing our voice. You can't say,
Simon Pinchbeck:so it's easier to get along, you know, it's such easy to
Reverend Ben Cooper:as an interest in fact, isn't it what you just said? It's, it's, it's it feels safer. As you come, right, let's come. Let's bring the Bible in the Bible in this right yo biblical. If we go back into the Old Testament, the Israelites said, Why have you brought us out here to die? We'd rather stay amongst that under the oppression under the oppression, even though they know right and wrong, even though they knew God, rather than sticking their head up and take a chance and legged in faith, so to speak. Yeah, yeah. Why have you brought us out here to die? We'd rather stay back under under that lunatic. We just get on with our daily life. And that's what we're seeing today.
Simon Pinchbeck:No forgot dinner very quickly, very was what was happening
Reverend Ben Cooper:allows a generational thing as well, wasn't it? Because for generations like the imagine the first ones that went into the, under the hand of Pharaoh, the first ones we're going to be fighting out all day long. But as children were coming along, the children would see that as a natural thing. So what we have today is the children are starting to see things that we are not happy with. But the children that we got below us, I just seen all this stuff going on, but because they have been brought up with it, it becomes their normal becomes
Simon Pinchbeck:their normal and you know, they call it a snowflake generation. And if you question that, you they say all snowflakes are different. Everyone's different, all white
Reverend Ben Cooper:and fluffy. But
Simon Pinchbeck:a snowflake, what does the snowflake do when there's a bit of a
Reverend Ben Cooper:melt? It melts and
Simon Pinchbeck:what happens is happening now is a bit heat on? Oh,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'll stay on the Pharaoh. So for someone in the children of Israel in the camp of Pharaoh, if they was to stick their head above the parapet and go I'm baking these bricks anymore. About enough of this not sitting right with me. Pharaoh would have took them straight out. Yeah. So sang with us if we stand up and go this is coming against my faith. I don't feel comfortable with this. I'm sorry, I cannot agree with this
Simon Pinchbeck:would be trouble. We'll be in trouble and what the world has done in the secular world we see it and and you know we've come back to that frog in the boiling water situation. Again, this has been going on. This is not a new thing. Now this has been going on for years that the de emasculation of men has been going on taking the voice away is taking taking their voice away taking their testicles testicular fortitude away from him.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What's your name? Come on. No one's listening to us. Let's just have it on the table.
Simon Pinchbeck:Did they not? You know, it's gone. It's been piano in the place. We had some great camaraderie. Right. Yeah, some great camaraderie. And which means we was we was all together and we would watch each other's backs. We would fight for each other,
Reverend Ben Cooper:but your life was a battle. He was he was he was put into your unit came around. For one thing only is it to control and I'm not talking about control what we're trying to control and to bring peace, to bring calm and to bring stability.
Simon Pinchbeck:But we had that yes. And where that camaraderie is sort of built into us because you was That's what I'm saying. It was built into you into you because that was your unit and you defend your unit you defend each other. So when you're going out there on a battleground, you weren't just defending you were doing more than defending the place in society what you were doing, you were looking and you're defending each person. So you've got each other. So you've got each other. And and they they've tried to eliminate that in the police. They call it a canteen culture, they don't think they didn't think it was good.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I was gonna ask you that question. So going back to when you started beyond the right shield? Could you operate the same today, as you operated, then? Oh, we got a lot more politics involved where you you've got a beat the opponent the enemy with a feather stick? Yeah. Do you understand what
Simon Pinchbeck:I mean? I think I think when the rubber hits the road, and, and you're out there, I think you're still looking after each other. But I think the we would be doing that 24 seven, you will be living and breathing with each other. Yeah. And I think they've not mapped out the park they've they've otherwise they the way they've done their their systems rather than their beat system, or that sort of thing has sort of changed. And even to the extent is even then, you know, we'd we'd go out as a unit, we'd say we did a fort of midnight, we train together, we try and physically train together. We train with the shields together, then we go out we'd be out on the street on the streets together in the in the states and on the streets of the West End. And then we come back, and we'd have a beer club. And we do have a couple of beers before we went out using
Reverend Ben Cooper:spirit in everything together. everything together. So you laugh together, you cried together, you drank to get your act together. You You knew each other almost inside out, you know how that person would react? They got your back.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's it. You've got they've got your back.
Reverend Ben Cooper:They got your back. That's what it comes down to.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And you knew that you could rely on them whether or not it was out in the field, whether or not it was
Reverend Ben Cooper:just a general conversation or in court or a cold? Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:You there's no fear because you don't you know, you would circle the wagons if you like, yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it seems to me that we've lost. strong leadership. People are frightened to say how they actually feel because of they put their head above the parapet. So when when we look at culture and society, we're trying to say Actually, I don't believe in that. Because if we say that we don't believe in that what the system has produced, and what it is telling us and we don't conform to that. We get taken out, we get very quickly put down and pulled to pieces. And it seems that in the in the spiritual world in the church world, yeah. If you start talking about spiritual battles in the church within the UK, I'm putting an umbrella over everybody. It feels to me that we have lost our spiritual strength. Now there's nothing to do with God. I'm referring to how we operate in the time of a battle. Because there has been no training for the Word of God.
Simon Pinchbeck:No, there's been no hate. No, there's been no hate No. And I interest in porn, and we're gonna go we're really want to attack without that Christian guy attitude. But let's, if we stick with the secular world a little bit longer, the way it's the way it's all all gone away. It's all developed. It's what we've always said. It's very much about you and me about you. And you're the little Gods you can do what you are. Yeah. So the narrative is this when it comes up comes from the mainstream media, we get it all the time, you can't avoid it. If you watch the telly, you get in blatant homosexuality thrown in your face you getting all the all the all the other gender issues thrown in your fight even so much as you know, these spin TV presenters who have come out and they said I'm living a lie. I'm really gay. Yeah. And they've been embraced. You know, and, and, and that's, that's fair enough, I guess. But you forget about their family. You know, he's got two daughters, and for the narrative, the wife's gonna say, Oh, I support him. What's he done? Tell him to Toodle?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I think that's so interesting, because I think it comes back to what we were talking about a moment ago, when a generation is birthed into what we see now are well, that's what it is because they look around and they see it but here's the thing.
Simon Pinchbeck:But here's the thing, right? Let's take another example. The Kardashians for example, which is, is a global people. Yeah. Now the father of the Kardashian, yes. Was Bruce Jenner. Yeah. Bruce Jenner was a gold medal winning. Yeah. athlete suddenly comes out and goes, I don't want to be a man anymore. I want to be a woman. So he goes down the route of the trip, the gender changed, and he has all the all the CF. And he gets some, I guess, a lot of sympathetic press for that. But there's one of his doors. That wasn't his natural door, but one of his adopted daughters Chloe. He says, You're not the same to me, Chloe, you don't you know, you're not responding to me like you used to. And she turned around to me. And she said, I've lost my father. Well, I've lost my father. So it's all
Reverend Ben Cooper:to say, isn't it? Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:See, it's alright for you to do your thing. But what about but what about as you're affecting this? Five? Good five daughters? Yes. And his wife. So it's a very selfish Finjan often to do that something.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think it's a very, we are very selfish. Selfish referring, you know, please forgive me listeners, you know that. He can't label it all. But when you're talking about this, I think what's happened is in culture and society, there's no consequences anymore. You can literally do what you want, when you want to do it. But the more money you have, you can go and get anything you can have. You can you can do anything. There is no limitation.
Simon Pinchbeck:Because it's all about you.
Unknown:It's all about me.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the problem here is if we've been dumbed down, mannered, yeah, if suddenly a man can come out and say, Oh, I'm really gay or be a woman, I sort of was it down to Father's will sit down to father and yeah, now the biggest, the biggest thing for families, and the biggest thing for children growing up is fathers,
Reverend Ben Cooper:as far as what are what's important as well, as we only like, we're talking about these guys, that we're talking about what what we don't hear in the press, is the ones that have done this change, then suddenly go, I made a mistake. The Press don't put that light out there that big statistics that sitting out there that has had a crisis go on. They've been driven to do what they've been driven to do. They suddenly live in this life. They've swapped gender, but suddenly they've come out and they've realized, I've made a mistake. Yeah. So sad. That's so sad. But culture and society is trying to change who we are. And there is no consequence anymore. You can go and do what you like. And the more the more flamboyant you are, the more that you show yourself to be some crazy person, the more you almost loved,
Simon Pinchbeck:where you embrace by social media and your race price
Reverend Ben Cooper:by this world of nonexisting.
Simon Pinchbeck:Because they don't care. They don't care if they don't care about anything else. They don't care about your family. They don't care about anything.
Reverend Ben Cooper:They're just looking for it comes back to what we said a moment ago. me. What what are we going to get out of this person, this situation? Let's ramp it up through for agency, let's ramp it up for more TV work, let's ramp it up getting on TV getting on the radio, let's get it out there and spoken about. But what we don't hear is the cannibal people that go. I shouldn't have done that.
Simon Pinchbeck:I think I think you said something right at the start and is which which resonates really powerfully. Ben, I think you said we've got a generation of men not taking responsibility. We have got a generation of men, we've got a generation of barbers not taking responsibility for their children. That's right. And, and people will people look at the states and over here as well. But at the states, they look at this. There's a generation of fatherless they have children over there. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes that's put down to generational stuff. But in the 60s, there was a prison over there called Lyndon B. Johnson. Yeah. Okay. Who said we will fund fatherless children? Yeah. On one condition.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What was that
Simon Pinchbeck:the condition was There was to be no man in the house.
Reverend Ben Cooper:This world is nuts.
Simon Pinchbeck:So it wants if you had us, us you had people married and living together.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Okay.
Simon Pinchbeck:And all of a sudden.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Okay, family. So I live in a shed. I'm on the prototype.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And we have this similar situation over here, because we have men, we have the benefit thing going on over here, which is which? Yeah, you know, it's good to have benefits. But when you've got a situation, where
Reverend Ben Cooper:is how we know people?
Simon Pinchbeck:Yes, we know people. That that will not go to work because they're getting more. Yeah. benefits to stay at home. So where's the incentive? Then? Yeah, for you to be a what example is that? to any of children? You've got
Reverend Ben Cooper:this right. I think what's what's really important is the system that we have in place. Thank God for the system where it looks after those vulnerable, those are elderly. That's great. That's powerful. But also we have created within that system, a lazy man will create I'm gonna get in trouble.
Simon Pinchbeck:a nanny state and in the worst, is even worse in the UK. Yeah. Because you've got a national health plan. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the National Health Forgive me, but was broken before we ever had this virus. Is there
Reverend Ben Cooper:a virus in there? Just kind of
Simon Pinchbeck:look back on this and go what I told him, but but it was broken before then. And yet the narrative now is coming out we have to protect the national health. Yeah. But the national was designed to protect us.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's right. So we so not when I say we, the system is created here. Because this relates into church, as well as it does into
Simon Pinchbeck:the world. Let's bring this in. Let's bring this into interchange. When
Reverend Ben Cooper:I say a lazy man, what I'm referring to, we might want to go to work to get some bread on the table. But I'm actually getting money in the door here for staying at home. But then by staying at home that there was got me. Yeah, because he's got, it's got me. And this works across all platforms, whether believer or non believer, because what happens by staying at home, we start to lose our identity. I'm not going into that. What I'm what I'm referring to is what we was created to do.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So if I'm indoors all day long, I'm going to lose my understanding of the way the world is, I'm, I'm being indoctrinated by what comes through the screen. So I'm listening. For radio, I'm listening through TV through certain channels that I might click in and watch. So I've become almost a robot, it's very easily to be switched over a quarter of number of weeks into someone I'm not really meant to be. So if I'm indoors, and I'm kicking around, I think in our yard, I'm going to do I might drop in a bit of pornography, I might drop into a bit of drink, might get a bit of smoke round a corner. I've got all the time on the ends. Yeah, I watch this program and watch that program I'll ever wonder out the road. I'll just kick about you know, I'm getting bored. I've got a boredom though.
Simon Pinchbeck:I've got a mate of mine, who's who's had a son who's got a son who's done exactly that, you know, was a work because because of the situation just getting a little bit here and there, dropped into smoking a bit of weight or whatever. And his missus looked at him as though he wasn't a bloke. I said, Now they split up,
Reverend Ben Cooper:split up. Now, obviously, we got guys out there that our graph doesn't they are we're not we're not. We're just talking generally. But this is this is the problem is is this is what number 10 demonstrates created. It's what is correct what politics has created, that you can't speak up for what you feel is right to do with your faith, or to what you feel. Because let's face it, there are lots of men out there with no faith, but understand what a man is. Oh, totally. But the masculinity. I believe that nutcrackers are gone number 10 has cut him off. And because of because of the political drive coming out of Europe,
Simon Pinchbeck:yeah, we're different
Reverend Ben Cooper:agendas,
Simon Pinchbeck:different agendas. They've got this agenda of
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's a spiritual agenda.
Simon Pinchbeck:Spiritual is a massive spiritual agenda. Because once you've won the tip, well, once you've dumbed down exactly masculinity once you've dumbed down a man again, you can drive in whatever you want to drive it. You can drive in whatever I believe there's a silent majority, you know, In this country,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I believe, I believe is a sign of maturity in this country.
Simon Pinchbeck:You know, I see him, I used to come to see my mum twice a month she lives in Suffolk and yeah, I stopped off at seven o'clock in the morning at tescos get a Costa Coffee to sit down and get me forced together. And you'd see that the groundwork is a scaffold as you see all these fellas coming in, do not expose hard working really hard working. And I heard one just before a lot of downs. I heard him say, I really don't want us to be low down because really Oh god.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I'm gonna be mad if
Simon Pinchbeck:we have a silent majority of guys who really don't know where to turn. Don't know where to go. Don't know where because we
Reverend Ben Cooper:feel like there's no one listening. when there isn't no one listening. When you want to ask questions, you can't ask the questions how you feel? Because it's not acceptable. But it's acceptable for culture and society to push all the mark on you. But when you want to stand up and go Hang on a moment, I just don't quite agree with that. You can't do that anymore. No, because of politics. And hidden agendas in the spirit realm. have come over from Europe come out of the beast of Europe. The political agendas are coming against family. Yeah. They're coming against family. They're coming against men and women and children. And it is a spiritual press to break down family at every level
Simon Pinchbeck:every level. Yeah. And, and so we bring that into a church environment and to a Christian environment. Yes. And all of a sudden, you gotta go with the flow.
Reverend Ben Cooper:If you don't go with the flow. Yeah, it's that wrong. Yeah. Someone wrong. Yeah. Yeah. So we have the Israelites, almost the Israelite mentality upon us where we're just okay. I just don't need because there's been a lot of people that have been voicing how they feel, but they've had no support. No, that's the thing. Because Hang on, if I support him, arm could lose my job. So
Simon Pinchbeck:you, you you have a
Reverend Ben Cooper:right to lose my job. If I lose my seat, the government number 10 has got us by
Simon Pinchbeck:God, I have friends in the states know all about this.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The system has got us. Thank God for Boris, I thank God for the politicians, may God bless them and strengthen them, and may God open their eyes. But if there's any government that does not partner and agree with Israel and the roots of Israel, we're in trouble. Because it is the opposite to what God wants. So what we have is a system in place that is very antichrist, very anti God, usually
Simon Pinchbeck:antichrist, usually anti God. And, you know, we're seeing it. We're right in the middle of this, and we're seeing it happening, the lights gone on in we're seeing our big time in the States at this moment in time where you've got simply overseas nearly 80 million people voted for Donald Trump. Yeah, but if you say you're a Trump supporter,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you're a lunatic
Simon Pinchbeck:you're there questioning you know, when
Reverend Ben Cooper:you're an educated What are you talking about
Simon Pinchbeck:losing jobs, so there wasn't all that sort of sort of thing. Why? Because that because
Reverend Ben Cooper:you voiced how you feel. So if I voice how I feel as a man in the workplace, when certain things are flooding the workplace that I don't quite agree with my lifestyle and that's not maybe not ungodly, but the way that the world has gotten me to be seems very clever the way it works. Yeah, case of a mortgage case of a car go down DFS sign yourself up for a sofa get this get that get a TV from courage, peace, don't buy now, pay later. Oh my god, do you pay later? Not just in finances, but you pay in, in in a spiritual way. Because you are trapped. You become a slave to Pharaoh.
Simon Pinchbeck:You're a slave to the man. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And now I can't voice my opinion. Well, not so much opinion. Actually. My feelings. Let's take opinion out of it. Because opinionated people are costly. Yeah, right. But someone that's got a feed and hang on. I wasn't brought up my my dad was a real dad. If you get me
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, so what you got you've got a generation of guys who have other Ed's
Reverend Ben Cooper:very direct not because not because they're weak, but because they're frightened. Because if I if I lift my head in the staff room, if I lift my head in the business world I might get a disciplinary because I've said something against the work culture and state.
Simon Pinchbeck:So it was a big thing. And funny in the in the preamble before this, you we spoke a little bit about this. If you say you're a Christian,
Reverend Ben Cooper:oh, now caller What? Yeah, come on. Let's be serious.
Simon Pinchbeck:If you say, you're a Christian, Look, you've tried to get some funding for your church. I mean, yeah, amazing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. The lottery applied everywhere.
Simon Pinchbeck:Because you're feeding 3000 3000
Reverend Ben Cooper:people a month fruit you're doing here and we can't get funding, you can't get a shekel, there's no, you can't get shackled. Because they say you're religious organizers. I'm a religious, we are a religious organization. So there is already and been here for a long time. A serious press. Yeah. That if you say you are a Christian in the workplace, your your your target.
Simon Pinchbeck:So what does that so what do I do? Yeah, what do you
Reverend Ben Cooper:think I'll conform, but the scripture says do not conform to the pattern of this world, but have your mind transformed or renewed by Christ. So I have a problem as a man. Okay. I can't my church, I hear the gospel. But then Monday morning, or whenever I go into work, I conform to the system of work, not because I believe in it, but because it's got me by
Simon Pinchbeck:everything. Because the way it's got me is your identity is tied to
Reverend Ben Cooper:my identity. And then that looks like that. I agree with everything that's going on. But what's happened is number 10. has laid a snare out for me. Many years ago. lived the dream. Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:Go
Reverend Ben Cooper:climb the career pole. and have it or have it or have it now, but we'll defer the payment to a little bit later. Yeah, but what is the payment, the payment? I'm a slave to the system slave. Free.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, you're a slave to the acceleration. Man.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I totally. I'm a believer, as the Israelites, but I'm a slave to Pharaoh. Not because I want to be, but because I was told we will look after you. And this is the way to go. We'll educate you so you can get educated. And then you start your business. You start your career you start in this you start in that and you start to climb this ladder. But then the enemy is so good at it comes along and he tempts you with I guess over the weekend. I've got no money to sign on the line like you don't make money. It's not
Simon Pinchbeck:the lies of Satan that that
Reverend Ben Cooper:let's have a sofa which attempted
Simon Pinchbeck:next door neighbor they just got a new car.
Reverend Ben Cooper:New Car
Simon Pinchbeck:nice. No wonder wonder you press a button and the tailgate comes down. It was loaded time when they can
Reverend Ben Cooper:change it. Change it I've got a great deal darling. Oh, we ain't got pay nothing with the name you want to deposit I just signed myself. Yeah, that's the trap
Simon Pinchbeck:that's a trap
Reverend Ben Cooper:upside myself to to assist them that has got me
Simon Pinchbeck:it's got you that's got me You think you're free but you're not
Reverend Ben Cooper:and that's not because I have no faith in God or we don't have faith in God but we have been we have been the system as gently very carefully and very easily and very cleverly massaged us into a position of it'd be alright.
Simon Pinchbeck:So what was the Bible so we got a bit of shiny light though Yeah, it says we have to be as shown in light and we use our example in
Reverend Ben Cooper:a lot of people use the fella that was a snake percentage that are using Jesus Moses. Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:So we got to come back to the cross. You gotta come
Reverend Ben Cooper:back. Come back to the sofa. Now come back to DFS. Go back to the merch or BM go to the Cracow did a cross. can't just say St. Paul, you've been what did Jesus own? I know he owns a Catalan affair. When he walked the earth. The tomb was borrowed. It wasn't even his What did he say to the disciples? Leave your nets come and follow me. Why are you bringing money? Why are you bringing a coat?
Simon Pinchbeck:What did he say about the taxes? Give? Fortunately,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it was a gift to the dogs. Oh, sorry. No, no, no he no give to the dirt. What did it give back?
Simon Pinchbeck:Fortunately, he's able to get a couple of denarius fish's mouth
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh my God. Did
Simon Pinchbeck:you know that you know going to Caesar what Caesar's but you know keep the rest for what you need to be doing and
Reverend Ben Cooper:taxes there's a bigger there's a bigger more iron on paper and the more I give to our beautiful friends the keepers of the purse yeah what keepers before before and what for pick the rubbish bins up? No You miss the bin then come refund on that one
Simon Pinchbeck:then I don't know come at your at your politics in it. Oh yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I know what my taxes do. They keep the rich rich. That's what it is. It's like Robin erdenet
Simon Pinchbeck:Mike is the deal. Yeah, we won't go down that route because it's a rabbit hole. You never come out. But there was a great American President Teddy Roosevelt. He did a brilliant speech. He called it the man in the arena. And what he said what he basically said was it's the man on the field the man in the arena. Yeah, got everyone else around about a sneering sniping, gossiping, saying oh look at him these are but it's the man in the in the arena in the arena who slips down who falls down and comes up covered in dirt? Who's who's keeps going and when you know he's the one he's the one you want with you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Shut up,
Simon Pinchbeck:not these guys on the sidelines, not these guys on the touchline not these guys, you know not even cheering calling you, you know this certainly. That's what we were having a moment. Jesus Christ was the man in the arena. All of a sudden it turned on a bang, it turned all of a sudden where was his friends? Even the disciples it says in the Bible reading
Reverend Ben Cooper:you will disown me. Yeah, three times. I won't Lord. I promise I will like everything you do on Facebook, or like everything through social. I will not turn on you. I will not turn on you. Yeah, Lord, I won't do that thing. I'll fight for you. I'll die for you. And when you're in the courtyard, and when you're sat around the bin was the disciples sitting around the bin with the crowd.
Simon Pinchbeck:Let's let's deal with Jesus. Let's put it into when you're out on the table in the canteen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You're you are reading your Bible. You are a believer.
Simon Pinchbeck:Are you going to join in with with a naughty video that's about are you going to? Or are you gonna put your hand up and say, No, I'm a man in the arena.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You know, we're asking some serious things for this. I asked myself before I asked anybody else. Well, I denied Christ at the fire bin.
Simon Pinchbeck:But here's the deal if you quit. God still love you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The protocol.
Simon Pinchbeck:If you quit, Will God still love you? They still love me. They'll still love you. But he's got work for you. He's got work for you. Get up? Yeah, get up. Okay. Carry on. Because what do we want to wear at the end of the day?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Well done. good and faithful servant. That's where we want to be. That's all I need. That's all. I need to hear when God calls me hug. When this athletic Earth suit drops to the floor when this ripped eight foot man that you're looking at drops to the floor and what are they gonna they're gonna have to build a special coffin because I'm pumped right up when this fat is the day when God calls me home. How do we get through this? We get through get me Jesus. God give us strim cuz we gotta stand aside.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, it's wait on the Lord and he'll give you strength and will rise on wings as an interesting thing, isn't it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:But in the waiting on the Lord, I've got to listen to the trash around me. Am I gonna wait on the Lord while the trash is coming at me? Or am I gonna allow myself to be carted off in the skip? Laurie?
Simon Pinchbeck:That is an interesting point. Because we spoke about this a little bit earlier. I think the Lord at this time is stripping away
Reverend Ben Cooper:stripping.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, the gardener there's there's a cleaning of the house. And it's up to you whether you join him. But we've said it before. Be careful who your friends are. Because
Reverend Ben Cooper:this is a long journey, though, isn't it? This is this has got some longevity. This has got some God can clean the house and sweep fruit straight away. But what I really feel in my spirit at the moment, God is talking to men and women now and saying we got to tidy up.
Simon Pinchbeck:We've got to clean up right the way through the workplace. And he wants his own life because he wants us in the arena of finances he wants was in the arena with with each other. Yeah, with each other. Yeah. We want that camaraderie. We don't get that camaraderie that Christian world, we don't have it by because leaders don't understand it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's like, you know, we
Simon Pinchbeck:got men's leaders. I sat with one, I sat with one guy,
Reverend Ben Cooper:only one leader of a men's group that he's standing up for Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:And he claimed this guy claimed that he was the foremost men's ministry really, guy in the UK, we have a guide that is brought up.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, in the minutes in a system in the system, the system administrator,
Simon Pinchbeck:you've got no idea what it means. Can
Reverend Ben Cooper:I ask a question to everyone out there? And I'm this this? Where are the spiritual leaders? The spiritual leaders? Where are the David's? Where are they that are that are in the arena with the sword of the Spirit?
Simon Pinchbeck:Where are they?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Where are they have I? Am I missing this of my eyes? Am I blind to this? Because when I look across the platform of ministry in church, I cannot see an emerging spiritual leader that is standing at the gate of number 10 going I've got a sword of the Spirit. Do you know what was coming against? This? Just come my God.
Simon Pinchbeck:I don't think I think God's saying look to your left. Yeah. Who's with you? Who's with you? who's standing with you? Who are your friends? Your Christian friends at this moment in time?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think that's a word that we got. You got to explore Christianity. It's so easy to say I'm a Christian. But what does that actually mean? Well, that we could spend a it's another another subject altogether. But basically what it means is, I'm going to I'm going to stand up for that word. Whether I'm living a little bit wonky, that's that's not, but I'm going to stand up for it. When someone comes against it. I need to lift a sword and go know the sort of spirit
Simon Pinchbeck:what is Christ saying? Yes, is you're ashamed of me. I'll be my father will be ashamed.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That I can't I can't get I can't read that. If I can't. that frightens me. The frightens me.
Simon Pinchbeck:Cool.
Reverend Ben Cooper:stillness and voice? Yeah. Yeah. Imagine what that would be like. You suddenly get called home. And there's just this silence, eternal silence. And you start to hear hell screaming out your name. You had a chance to follow me. And you can feel the intensity of the flames behind you. Yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:yeah. And you had a chance to stand out from it. You had a chance, you have a chance to,
Reverend Ben Cooper:to say I believe in Jesus. See, I can say I believe in Jesus. My son's no, yes, I can say I believe in Jesus in the church arena. I can jump around and praise God all day long. But when I go outside? Am I shouting? The Name of Jesus?
Simon Pinchbeck:Is your lifestyle. Show me the name of Jesus because your lifestyle? That's what it should do?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Are you letting the light shine is the light shining? But as we let the light shine, the temptations become fiercer. The struggles become fiercer, because the light is being shot.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And it's a dark place at the moment.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's a very dark place. Yeah, just bringing us to some form of whatever gonna be that bring us to some form of
Simon Pinchbeck:closure. We can't go on forever. But we could we could do but
Reverend Ben Cooper:but the battery's gonna run out of
Simon Pinchbeck:the deal is it stand firm and its monthly time just stands strong. Give you I know, I know, these guys out there that feel like giving up. I know, these guys out there that feel battle weary because they
Reverend Ben Cooper:got a lead weight. Because they can't say what they want to say they can't be the man that they know that they should be. Because if I do that, and I speak that way out. I'm going to get more bullets at me. It's better for me to stay in Egypt and start to stay under Pharaoh. Just because you're under Pharaoh. You don't agree with it. But you're so worn out and you're so tired and you're so exhausted. And that's what the system does. The weight is out. It weighs you down.
Simon Pinchbeck:But right now, God is looking for his remnant. He's looking for men in the arena to rise out of the ashes. Yeah, and and just just stand firm. Just stand firm in a word to stand firm. And the Bible says this. He said don't worry about what to say because I'll give it to you. So just open your mouth or just just keep having a go for Jesus. Just Keep I'm gonna go. Wherever you want to stand. Yeah, stand firm, don't lose, don't fall back. Don't fall back down a foxhole, don't fall. Don't let the line Don't let
Reverend Ben Cooper:the lion Maurya the Lion of now we're not talking about the Lion of Judah. We are talking about the roaring lion, the lion
Simon Pinchbeck:that's looking for someone to pick off.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, the system lion. Yeah, that will devour you for speaking up and for standing out. But what we've got to remember is the battle belongs to the Lord. But I have a responsibility to say I believe in Jesus. But just because I believe in Him doesn't mean to say that I'm gonna have a smooth run, it won't be smooth. It'll be a roller coaster.
Simon Pinchbeck:It'd be powerful. If you've got a smooth run. If you're in a company, then I'm really you mean in Egypt, back in the back in Egypt,
Reverend Ben Cooper:for Egypt is not a smooth run. Because my mind is causing me as much havoc in Egypt as it would if I was out. But I think that it's better to be in Egypt, because the crowd is in Egypt. That's the issue we got. So there's many men in the crowd. Like the Israelites just said, let just take me back. I'll just get on with it. I'll just get on with it.
Simon Pinchbeck:But if we're we're trying to walk in the Spirit if we're trying to walk in the Spirit. And look, there's a whole nother story the whole nother subject. But there's a conviction there. Definitely. Yeah. That you'll feel if you will feel dead inside. Yeah, if if you're Christian, the onion you're not getting out there and having a call for Jesus. You can't feel you're gonna be led into something else and you're gonna feel dead inside. Yeah. And you know, radical faith
Reverend Ben Cooper:call
Simon Pinchbeck:brings by radical obedience. Brings by him the miraculous. Yeah. So standing up, and being radical in your faith, wherever you are. Even if it's just saying to your work colleagues, I presume or wherever
Reverend Ben Cooper:I believe in Jesus. Yeah. Then put you on.
Simon Pinchbeck:Mute. Yes, you disappear.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But then, but then
Simon Pinchbeck:you get the radical Fife and then radical obedience because the Lord is looking on you and He will use you because who knows? Yeah. Who's because if you're standing stronger this moment in time, someone else goes, You
Reverend Ben Cooper:know what? I believe in God, I believe in Jesus. You know what, and then someone else, even God of Israel,
Simon Pinchbeck:do you know what? I need to pick what you got? And before
Reverend Ben Cooper:he's turned his turn, it's turned.
Simon Pinchbeck:But if you're sitting down with your red in the crowd in the herd,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's never gonna happen. You gotta you gotta be prepared to be painted. And the miraculous will
Simon Pinchbeck:happen with red. And you we've seen them reckless Mr. Ben, you've seen
Reverend Ben Cooper:Tiger
Simon Pinchbeck:we've, we would you know, the other day I came in and lose two fathers not giving their lives to the Lord. But they're helping you with the with
Reverend Ben Cooper:their their astonishing what they do,
Simon Pinchbeck:and they're hoping you would have fooled
Reverend Ben Cooper:by are so full on.
Simon Pinchbeck:And what did one guy say?
Reverend Ben Cooper:If it wasn't for this, if it wasn't for this? I want to make Christmas.
Simon Pinchbeck:You want to make Christmas? It says radical faith, radical obedience. That miraculous is a life saved, my friend. Oh, God,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think we should call it Let's call it a day. I got to get these aisles off. Come on, you got to kick off and you got to keep smiling.
Simon Pinchbeck:Got to keep the girls got to keep being in the arena.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We're in the arena standing standing there, right. It's like a young David, isn't it? I'm running down to this cliff.
Simon Pinchbeck:Remember that? Remember that clip? The gladius eclipse? Yeah, remember that clip where he says, we're gonna get through this. We've got to stand together. You got to stand together. And? And they did. Yeah. And that's what happened. So stand up. Get around. You have a go for Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Simon. We've been quite going a little bit deeper than we normally do a day, you know, and it's, we've been chatting about stuff is quite hard to talk about, isn't it? Yeah, it can be very difficult because you're coming against what the world is telling you to do. And we just pray for the brothers and the sisters and we pray for everybody listening and thank you so much for sharing. You know, there are some the subjects that we're talking about, I've got to be spoken about, but we pray that God will keep you safe and strong wherever you are and whatever. And however you are, may God bless you and strengthen you. And if you're struggling with anything in your life, whatever that may be, just go to the word first. Go to the word, go to the word, just, just get to the Word of God. Get to the word start in Psalms read Psalms. David, the Book of Psalms is a great, great starting point, it will because there is a man, there is a man, a man, a young man, an old man, a dad, a father, he experienced everything in life. But God kept him. Powerful power, very powerful. Thank you so much, Simon, we pray that God will keep you safe as you drive all the way back in your shopping trolley because your car's gone. And the trains are not running back to the real world. Thank you so much. God
Simon Pinchbeck:bless you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:God bless my friend. Take care, stay safe. And we'll see you all very very soon. We do appreciate everybody listening to all these podcasts. You've been listening to Simon pinch back, myself, Reverend Ben Cooper here in church if you need Simon for, for just chatting or one to one he is available. You can catch him through here or for real man for Christ. You will find him on many different platforms and he's a great friend. God bless