Hello and welcome. Thanks for joining us here in Elim church podcast in Swanley, you're joining myself, Reverend Benjamin Leonard Cooper and we got our great friend, our great mate. That strap line some of my great might Simon Pinchbeck
Simon Pinchbeck:Great to be here, absolutely great to be abandoned. As always, it's, you know, it's a revelation and it might be you know, there's all sorts of things happen. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:he talked about the book of Revelation. Now I'm talking
Simon Pinchbeck:about the revelation of you know, of your of your dress and everything might it's, you know, we've got the checkered scarf on a day and we've not been on this podcast. We all got the cameras out.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Now. I'm dressed differently. I've dressed with a dress. I haven't got a dress on,
Simon Pinchbeck:you're taking the dog collar off and the
Reverend Ben Cooper:dog collar off and studied my
Simon Pinchbeck:makin booty Baker.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I got the dress. Oh, I shouldn't say that. Should I got a dress on? Or anything goes out identifying like, what to embrace. Let me clear this up for any leaders listening. I do not have a dress on. I have trousers and trainers. And I have a man but anything goes in the church these days than anything can go swing everything into the church, but don't bring the Word of God in.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, that's certainly our is. Ben it, you know, we sent after you know, that's, you know, this is the Bible. We'll put that over there.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And we bring partner and you know, yeah, we
Simon Pinchbeck:got a lady Vicar here and, and she's saying that it's she wants to live over. lady friend.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And that's fine. This isn't because we won't open the Bible. No, we just keep the Bible just by policies. Some nice
Simon Pinchbeck:things in there but you know, maybe live by it. Now we got to live your life by by the world what a secular world the
Reverend Ben Cooper:secular world Yeah, what that says it's pretty scary in it's really scary. So we can see how much of a crisis we're in across the planet Earth. When you take God when you take the father out. When you take the father out. You've got chaos.
Simon Pinchbeck:Complete fire out. You know. I haven't listened to it all but there's a great podcaster and youtuber fire. Not gonna say he's great, but he's a very popular Veliko Josh Rogan? I don't know if you ever Yeah, yeah, very good. He he did one the other day and the title of it when the first thing he said was, was men are living a life of quiet desperation. And majority definitely live a life of quiet desperation.
Reverend Ben Cooper:say Oh, yeah, wrap that up in just that one line.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the way they are the way society is, it's happy for men to live a life of quiet desperation is happy for you to to, to sit down in front of your 60 inch. LCD plasma.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Voges. AGP TV now I've got that wrong. My random LG TV. Say so many.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, you have to be careful because you can stumble on phone on any of them. Can
Reverend Ben Cooper:you hear me uses words?
Simon Pinchbeck:language and language and stuff spoken out. So so that but but men are in that situation where they just a lot of them just exist?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, there. If we go, can we talk about the Bible?
Simon Pinchbeck:I should hope so.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Money number and know where to look. You talk about empty vessels. We go back to who go in the Old Testament we see very clearly don't worry about the Prophet, that God spoke to the Prophet he said prophesied to the bone prophet sight to the breath, blah, blah. Is this a kill that the structure was there wasn't it but without the breath of the father? We're nothing. That's the breath. Yeah, we've got it. On the outside. It's there we can see it's a human being. But without the breath is just a zombie. It's just head dropped. But with the breath for the father and the Father's will. There's there's a place to live.
Simon Pinchbeck:There's a place to that's exactly the Father. And, and, you know, through through the years through the centuries, different priorities come up. You've got this way. You got to be that way. What would be the other way? Well, the Bible just tells you straight. This is how you got to This is who you got to follow. This is your example, Jesus Christ. Your example is not some guy on YouTube, your example, example is not some fellow football footballer, and men are living vicariously by putting names on their shirts on. Yeah, no, that is not your example. If you follow these people, you're sooner or later, they're going to disappoint you big time. And, you know, you're gonna be disappointed. And you're gonna feel inadequate, and, and you are going to feel in a way that, you know, you're pretty worthless, really, because these guys are living this projected lifestyle, and you don't know who's behind it to you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's all theatrical, it's all performance. So like, Sunny feel like, like life is a staged in here. It's all performing. It's all performance. And it's, it's got no
Simon Pinchbeck:breath. It's it's a big one, isn't it? You know, especially especially when you get to, to, to that thing called performance, you know, men are supposed to be, you know, super stats, and they and all that blue tablet, and you go all night and all that stuff, but that's not reality, is it? That is not reality.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Well, two minutes, thank you. Good night. You,
Simon Pinchbeck:I mean, you. You put a bag of rice in the microwave, and that's it, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the mode,
Simon Pinchbeck:yeah, it was good for you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Grab a bag of rice, you,
Simon Pinchbeck:you know that, that they can't live up to the cognitive
Reverend Ben Cooper:up to this fakeness. And you can see that humanity can't live up to this anymore. Because it's like, through this pandemic, it's it's like it's dropping, isn't it? You can the lack of human contact, the lack of communication. Humans are tired or exhausted because I think what the pandemic is allowed us to do is almost rest from the from this world that is, has no meaning. As the book of Ecclesiastes says that everything is meaningless,
Simon Pinchbeck:everything's meaningless.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We've been going. So full pelt, in the church, at the church, in all cultures and societies, it's just like this, this race car driving so fast on this track, and then suddenly, the fuels run out. And you can almost see this army of people with their heads just dropped
Simon Pinchbeck:when it's exhausting an interesting point is because in June the first lockdown I was doing some work with some young men who had families or whatever. And one of the comments they said about the lockdown was they found it quite scary because they'd never known a time when they was alone with themselves.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That is a painful place alone with yourself and then
Simon Pinchbeck:with yourself
Reverend Ben Cooper:reflecting, thinking looking explore in your head, your thoughts your your pattern of your mind, but the world is is is full on 24 hours a day seven days a week. Press press, press press look at work look at look at the world of business Zero Hour contract you will work until you drop you will work and work and work for the system
Simon Pinchbeck:for the man yeah and for a lot these fellows you know we talked about Christian man's priorities and God spouse family work ministry and a lot of them got everything out of kilter even put you know, he put your family before God easy. And we all know that the priorities change from day to day but that is you know, you you don't let your work overtake your family you don't know that I will tell you God you don't let your ministry overtake your sort of finding that they were finding that they would live to a train wreck yet they still you know when the church or whatever. But to put their lives in into perspective and put it live their lives. Right? Really then the perspective is God spouse, family, work and ministry and one one word that these these young men didn't like. Can you imagine what it has been?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Come on, tell me I've got too many men at the minute
Simon Pinchbeck:one word that they didn't know was discipline. I really did not know that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:They were actually discipline
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, discipline. What they wrote a war recall it was scheduling or something like that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You know, schedule What a stupid word that is anything about that? Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:So So get any discipline in your life. Yeah, you know, which means discipline off and on God, I, you know, depending on where you're coming with that word, it has different connotations but but some spiritual discipline. What we're talking about is maybe getting up a bit earlier you know, maybe lay yourself down open to the Lord maybe getting into your Bible a bit more maybe praying a little bit more, but giving God time and what I'd say to some of these fellas was say to them is this and you get a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle and on one side, the time you spend we've got the time you spend with Jesus I'm not talking about work in or minutes now I'm talking about that one, you know? Yeah, that one time and in the private closet, but once How much are you spending?
Reverend Ben Cooper:It won't make 15 minutes
Simon Pinchbeck:as opposed to how much time are you? What's
Reverend Ben Cooper:that
Simon Pinchbeck:ratio on? Instagram social media guy Mattel oxen all that sort of stuff that even family Camille's and mates talking to me about all that sort of stuff.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, washing the car.
Simon Pinchbeck:On the scales are pretty.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You see,
Simon Pinchbeck:so then add you expect your life to be if you're not putting see the one because where my heart is? your treasure is my treasure. And one scripture sums it up, done it. Yeah. Matthew 633. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and everything else will fall into place. So it was interesting. So I did a talk on this to a group of fellows just last Saturday. And in when we broke out of the into rooms off in the zoom thing. I just felt the spirit go ask, put out the question. What's your relationship like with your earthly father? Because I know from experiences all around the world that is the that relationships with your earthly father is the biggest struggle, of course. Okay. And if you're you have a bad relationship with your earthly father, what does that do to you with your relationship to your heavenly Father? It could taint it couldn't?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes, yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:So it was about five or six photos in this room, and every single one had a problem with their earthly father. And it's not unusual. This is what we're finding out. Yeah, time and time again, that there's men who are living with the consequences of words said actions done over and by their earthly father. All they want is affirmation. All they want is a bit of love. And it's never happened. One guy said, Ben, he said, he said when I was a young boy, he said My father used to work late, he said, but I would stay awake in my bedroom. And hear him come in. He said, and I'd make noises in my bedroom to let him know to let him know I was still awake with the hope that he was going to come up.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Gosh, that brings a tear to your identity.
Simon Pinchbeck:He said never do never came up. I've got no load. He never came on.
Reverend Ben Cooper:As a stopper in it.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And I was on another. There was a prayer meeting as a zoom chat a few weeks ago, and there was a guy there. In his 80s good Christian man had been a church leader in a very intelligent man, it got in his day gone all around the world. Speaking in universities and stuff. He said, I can remember what my father said to me when I was 10 years old. And my father, it was a throwaway comment. He said, my father said you, Michael, you'll never ever make anything of yourself.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And he remembered that even though he had done and accomplished or what he had done more it experiences it. It maturity had grown up experience and the lecturer, teacher, whatever that may have been fine sounding speaker. Yeah, but that's still waiting. The dramas are
Simon Pinchbeck:the two biggest struggles. Oh, for men, our relationship with your earthly father and word said over you when you're younger. Yeah. Yeah. Because that that, you know, that opens up and the enemy starts to build a strong gold in
Reverend Ben Cooper:so it becomes rooted.
Simon Pinchbeck:Imagine your father was saying to you, son, you know, getting you. You look at Yeah, you're not even I don't even think you're from my loins. You know you There's nothing good gonna come out. You Yeah. And then every negative comment after that builds up builds up. And so you reach a stage when you're in your 30s 40s you're looking for affirmation, you look desperate for someone to turn out well to do that in the world or do that to you, in the wrong way. Don't mean it don't anytime, meaning
Reverend Ben Cooper:it will like it. Yeah, it will draw you in into a situation. Just because it can, it will.
Simon Pinchbeck:I know men, you know, when I've got a Italian friend of mine and a great guy who sadly passed away, and especially guys from the afro Afro Caribbean backgrounds, okay, where they they're continually beaten by their earthly fathers, they was beaten on a daily basis by their earthly flowers. So I understand that argument with we got so annoyed this this guy, an afro Caribbean fella blackfella. Ego believe in Jesus, he believed in the Holy Spirit, but a Father God loved, you know, my father beat me every single day. What happened? Is, so he went out and he sought for he believed in Jesus, but he saw affirmation and love. And he had five different children from five different women. At the end of the end, end of the day, there's a risk, there was a knock on effect and a consequences. We've spoken about all these all these stuff. So, you know, so here's, here's the thing. What are we looking what the men look for, from their earthly father? What we'll do we have to get from our earthly father.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Love, encouragement,
Simon Pinchbeck:love, encouragement, security, security, peace, peace,
Reverend Ben Cooper:calm stability, stability. Yeah, yeah. provision.
Simon Pinchbeck:provision. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Yeah. So much.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. A belief in US safety protection, FM affirmation, forgiveness, wisdom is what we there are all characteristics that we can apply to our family father. Oh, much differently. Yeah. But we would love to get them from our earthly father. Yeah. You know, encouragement, encouragement.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, just that gentle arm over your shoulder. Sometimes without any words, but actions.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's it just a general arm around the shoulder actions, that togetherness now, you know, that bond that bond when they're at home? They are at home? Exactly. I know. I know, men, good Christian fellows that property before before they actually go home or walk in a door to stay in their car for 20 minutes. Just getting rid of the day if you like, Yeah. Or not. And then when they walk through the door, they're the father that they should be.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So they've learned not to carry the pressures of the world into their
Simon Pinchbeck:into their homes
Reverend Ben Cooper:into their home. Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's it's a difficult one. Because how do we how do we counteract that? You know, if you're someone out there, and there's women out there as well. If you're someone out there that has a problem with your earthly father, what do we say to them? And we
Reverend Ben Cooper:add we address how do we address it?
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. Well, first off, we say follow Jesus. Knowing 100%
Reverend Ben Cooper:without any shadow of a doubt, follow Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:Where's he gonna leave him?
Reverend Ben Cooper:To the father? Our Father,
Simon Pinchbeck:yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'll follow what did he say in the garden? Father Father,
Simon Pinchbeck:what did he say? He said on the way the light the truth no one comes to
Reverend Ben Cooper:father except for me. Yeah. So there is healing go ceiling is a massive subject is a massive emotional subject talking about the lack of love from an earthly father because it opens up a box that a lot of people don't want the box to be open now. Keep the lid shut the lid keep the lid now down.
Simon Pinchbeck:It causes is the bedrock of so much so many problems with within men, but especially we've been Christian men. Because what I hear why here, then, is that guys or go Walmart. Father was a minister. But the guy that they saw people saw on a Sunday morning wasn't the guy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's out. Yeah, I fully grasp
Simon Pinchbeck:fully understand wasn't the guy who's at home with me who used to slap me about beat me. It didn't. Who didn't? He didn't encourage me. He didn't have you know, that was that was the guy that I saw. So, you know, consequently they would end up coming away from f5.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, he took a book church in the arena of this I I struggle to think I know there are men's ministers out there, but they don't really. Is there anywhere that really teaches us to be a father. Before anything else. No.
Simon Pinchbeck:No,
Reverend Ben Cooper:they teach me how to be a businessman. To be to be a theologian, a minister, an evangelist, the church teacher all that. Yeah. does it teach me to be a dad? No.
Simon Pinchbeck:And I'm so pleased you brought that point up. Because
Reverend Ben Cooper:to be a dad,
Simon Pinchbeck:to be a dad. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:it teach me. Everything is like
Simon Pinchbeck:a teacher, everything to teach
Reverend Ben Cooper:me everything. You can be an evangelist, you can be a prophet, you can be an apostle. I could be a pastoral leader, Bishop, preacher, teacher. But does it teach me to be a dad? does it teach me? How to love my children?
Simon Pinchbeck:does it teach me how to love my children? does it teach me how to be an example?
Reverend Ben Cooper:does it teach me how to be a dad? If we were to go on the old good old internet now and never sniff through? would find every course within a couple of clicks have to be an evangelist, a preacher? Everything in the ministry. Teach me to be a dad, I would love to actually see what will come up.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, we will I will look afterwards. But But you're right. You know, where is where's the guidance for a godly father within the church.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's like,
Simon Pinchbeck:if you're not going from your eyes,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it stumped us. It's like Bravo. Paul was to this. Yeah, this conversation because my mind has just gone on a moment. Where I've seen everything I can pay five grand to become an evangelist, I complain about the basic principle that a man should have. above everything above ministry is be a dad to be here to be a dad to be a dad, or teach you everything else that you can be a healer, you can be a preacher, you can be a teacher, you can be a minister, he can be a bishop. Teach me to be a dad, I'll be more than approach should I ever be because my actions will show Christ.
Simon Pinchbeck:And then all that stuff that we talked about, yeah, that you were looking for in the fall? I should see. And you shouldn't I,
Reverend Ben Cooper:if I'm a great dad, if I'm a great. I'll be the preacher that God wants me to be.
Simon Pinchbeck:And your lead your children to follow Jesus. Yeah. And then to the Father. Yeah. I see it so many times where a guy has not had love from his father. He's a generational thing a lot of times, you know. So maybe the granddad didn't give love to the dad and unless you break that you know, this is this is what I get a lot of times is do you tell the kids you love them? Well, they know.
Reverend Ben Cooper:They know. No, don't
Simon Pinchbeck:do you got to tell them?
Reverend Ben Cooper:You gotta tell them
Simon Pinchbeck:this the other day? Oh, my dad was really good. Tell us a bit about he never really told us he loved us. But you know, the themes and all of that. He took us on our DNA do things with us. Did he ever spend time with you? Not really. No, but he was a good dad. He texts me making excuses for their father. Yeah, making that hurts. That's it That's I don't want to I don't want to go there. And not get it I get I totally get it. You know you you'd speak to too many guys in prison or done done time and he got what was your relationship with with your, with your father? we wander around didn't see him didn't see him? But that's alright. That's okay. No, it's not okay. No, no, it's okay. It's not okay. All of It's okay.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So we say why okay. So, how how does the church teach me to be a father?
Simon Pinchbeck:important that is to know how important that is. And actually great
Reverend Ben Cooper:to be bad. What did God shout from the heavens? He brought this guy back. And he said, This is my son that I'm well placed.
Simon Pinchbeck:What is the church doing?
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's teaching me to be a theologian is teaching me business? It's teaching me policies. teaching me everything.
Simon Pinchbeck:I say, there's a magazine that comes out. Christianity, I think it's called and I used to get it. Under the backer hat, there's job vacancies. Yep. And you can guarantee that 90% of those job vacancies are for youth pastors,
Reverend Ben Cooper:all day long, all day long. Youth pastors, and it's got to be have a haircut a certain way. There's got to be of a certain build, I've got to wear a certain pair of trainers. He's got to fit in with a wall.
Simon Pinchbeck:And I bet you when they when they're interviewed, no one says, What's your relationship with your heavenly Father? is how can you teach children if you're not? We have a crisis in the church. So huge crisis, and I'm gonna quote you a scripture to show you how big it is and how frightening is and people need to get out of this and why they haven't. I don't know, but it might be it's, it's something we can we can address in in in a small way. If you go to the last verse, or the last book, in the Old Testament, which is malikai. Yeah, it's malikai, four, six, right? He says this bin, I'll read it, it says, it gets me a motion. just recap. He says, and he will turn the hearts of the fibers to the children. Yeah. On the hearts of the children to the fathers. Now listen to this, lest I come and strike be over. Because that's how important it is. Yeah. That's how important is silence and society. At this moment in time, we live in it in a fatherless generation.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think if he was to go back a couple of years, and you will still look at a sports day. In any school, it'd be filled up with mums. Yes, that can't make it. Because he can't get time off. That's all right. But that's all right. No, it's not. No. All right. All right. Matthew, what it'd be like to be in a big business. Sitting in a big conference room saying right and finish that one today? I'm gonna I'm going to sports day. You'd be laughed out of the building. Because it is I'm stumped for words to be honest with you. This is a sports field is lacking fathers on sports day. But the stadiums are filled up on Saturdays with fathers with fathers tells you a lot tells you a lot tell you everything.
Simon Pinchbeck:Listen, listen to this and this this comes to mind
Reverend Ben Cooper:watching your son or your or your daughter with the egg and spoon race. But I'll do everything to get to watch football on Saturday.
Simon Pinchbeck:I had a stepfather you know I say it in my you know my story many times you know I would have throughout my school. I was always played first team rugby. Yeah. I represented a county was on a road to the middle of a union really. And my father never came to see me. My stepfather never came to see me once play rugby. never taught me to a training session ever do anything now. I didn't know any different so that was okay. Right. But But when I had my own sons,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:I wasn't a great father but I take them to watch watch him play football. I take them Saturday they play rugby Sunday they both football. I was standing there in all weathers on the touchline you know, supporting them and whatever. He said he said it's a great feeling to see a kid. Yeah. I was. I was in my my wife went to see a doctor up a Harley Street View a couple of years ago. When I was sick, I was went with her and I was sitting in a waiting room while she was waiting with the doctor and there was another lady that I just spotted. Have a conversation with her. She was quite posh. I said, you know, we were just making conversation. And so if you've got any children, she said, Oh, yeah, I've got a boys. But college or whatever, he's, he's 1819 years of age. I said, I just came out, you know, because otherwise you get on moviesbaba. Well, as far as a major in the army, and he's a he's a, he's a bit distant. Your wish his father would, was a was a little bit closer to him. He's a bit distant, you know, it's more or less Do as I say sort of thing. I said, Oh, okay. Okay. And but she didn't stop talking. And she went on and she said, Did you know she said, I found this really hard to believe and this boy is a private school, you know, top end. 18 years of age, just before we went to university, he said, she said, I was shocked to realize that 80% of the boys in my son's year were on track rises.
Reverend Ben Cooper:At does not surprise me.
Simon Pinchbeck:They were on tranquilizers been.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. heard it before. Yeah. So what are we lacking? love of the Father
Simon Pinchbeck:and lacking the love of the Father.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What are we lacking in the UK? fathers fathers authority or authorities? Yeah, fathers are not allowed to be fathers. You're not allowed to be.
Simon Pinchbeck:You're not allowed to be fathers not allowed to
Reverend Ben Cooper:be a father be anything else. But you can't be a real father. You're not allowed to chastise you're not allowed to deal with, you're not allowed to correct. can't raise your hand. Can't do anything.
Simon Pinchbeck:When we do these groups, when we call bold encounters with the fellas, and we're dealing with, with women, so we've got ladies who do deal with the ladies as well. But, you know, obviously, I just deal with the men when we do these groups. So I can remember one time, a young man he was he was a lovely young fella, but felt no self worth at all because of his relationship with his earthly father. So we just said this to him. Simple thing. Close your eyes. ask the Holy Spirit to tell you what the father thinks of you. Yeah, and we were all standing around. And he's answer. There wasn't a dry eye in the place. Because he just, he just opened his eyes and he went, warrior.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Whoa. Find that come from
Simon Pinchbeck:a father says I'm a warrior. Because when you ask the Father what he thinks of you. A father is not going to say to you, you're useless. You're a worthless piece of rubbish. You're not going to say hey, is he the father? Were atham affirm you the father will lift you up. The father would say you will my son. But Gideon, you're my son. But you need to trust me more. That's what it took a good look at it. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm the least in my clan. Your warrior. You're a warrior. Look at David and his brothers used to shepherd boy. But had he God same had a godson King.
Simon Pinchbeck:And that's the same with all of us.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And what did Jesus say? I can do nothing without my father. Well, what an example you want an example. So where are the churches are pray, I pray that we'll get some feedback from this. Where are the churches? Teaching men? To be a father to be a dad? Where are they? No, no teaching of evangelism, no teaching and that because when you become a father, you're everything
Simon Pinchbeck:is everything. And if you if you're a father, with Jesus in your heart, it doesn't. It's not about you as it is about Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And leading
Simon Pinchbeck:then to your heavenly Father so that it's all in the right dynamic in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Teach me to be a father.
Simon Pinchbeck:And if you're a father out there, and you've been through what we've been through our woods, or if you're not, not of our view, if you're anyone who has been through what struggles with their earthly father, I would just say spend five minutes on your own and as as your heavenly Father what he thinks of you. Yeah. What does he think of you? Because he's not, he will never say I wish I'd never made you
Reverend Ben Cooper:say that to you before the very beginning of time. Why did he correct me for his good pleasure and he's goodwill.
Simon Pinchbeck:Amen. Scripture a mentor that you know
Reverend Ben Cooper:that he's a pleasure and his good. Well,
Simon Pinchbeck:he knew you, before we was
Reverend Ben Cooper:whatever we was, before we even predestination creation, before he put the stars in the heaven. He knows beyond the foundation to the world. He created, he thought, He loved us.
Simon Pinchbeck:And he's got a perfect plan for you if you get into his will.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And look, when Christ when God sorry, pulled the heavens back. And as I said, this is my son that I'm well placed. That's what we all want to hear. And that's what we want to hear. This is my son, or this is my daughter, um, well placed, that's all his death. That's all he said.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's all he said.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You go back for the scriptures. What is God said about his son. When you look at that, and you, you bring this together. He spoke it from Heaven's glory, this is my son, who I'm well placed.
Simon Pinchbeck:But if you look, and if you look at scripture there, it said he will bring the hearts of the fathers to the children, children a father, otherwise it will curse the earth,
Reverend Ben Cooper:bringing it to the importance
Simon Pinchbeck:of fathers.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. The
Simon Pinchbeck:church hasn't recognized that, that hasn't recognized that I took the I didn't recognize the importance of building men to be godly fallouts you
Reverend Ben Cooper:know, what it? You know, it does, can I just interrupt there, it comes out that strap line will teach you to be a man, I want to be a man ought to be a dad,
Simon Pinchbeck:I want to be a dad, I want to be a father,
Reverend Ben Cooper:a father is greater than a man.
Simon Pinchbeck:And then what will happen is that that will be it will be every man's destiny to be the father, the father.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Look at all the books that are out there. It teaches us how to be a man. Be a man, be a Christian man. But I've got to be a father. Because the father is everything captured. Father is the center, a father created I can do nothing without my father. It's so
Simon Pinchbeck:it may, you may have led a difficult life through your relationship with your earthly father you may have done. But one of the red stuff in the book read follow Jesus. Yeah. And he will lead you to Amen. The Father, because he did, as we said, did nothing without connection to the Father.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It has to be.
Simon Pinchbeck:And there's the deal because many people just stop at Jesus. Yeah, the treasure is the Father. Because the father's Jesus's job is to take you to the Father. That's his job is to save. He's done. His job is amazing. He come to the earth, to die to take our sins to take our place on a cross to rise again. So we got salvation. And then to lead us to the Father. No one can get to the Father, except through me. So go to Jesus. Yeah. And then
Reverend Ben Cooper:the access is then to the Father.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the enemy has been been distorting and destroying stuff. He's been destroying families that sees that. That's his game and that's destroyed. destroyed a family. Yeah. What what's happening now, in this pandemic,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've got everything happening.
Simon Pinchbeck:You cannot see your father he cannot see here. You can't see him especially with our elderly. You got busy. You're busy in hospital within the care room.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, no,
Simon Pinchbeck:you got to stay on. Stay safe. Nonsense. Yeah. Nonsense. You. You're destroying families. That's right. You destroy the family makeup.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But that's happened from the garden hose, and all the way for
Simon Pinchbeck:your 1,000,000%. And what and I'm so glad you made that point. It's happened from the garden. And here's the deal. The father since the garden is one of these sons to come back to me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And there was a plan before he even created the redemption plan. Yeah. And it was the Father's plan that sent the son.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, as far as plan that sent the son
Reverend Ben Cooper:is always the Father, the Father, the Father, the Father, the Father, the father.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's the father and the only way we know how to get to the Father is through Jesus. And when when Jesus say, I am the father, I want I am the father of one. So you you get to the Jesus. You get to Fall
Reverend Ben Cooper:bang, without
Simon Pinchbeck:we're there. And with the Holy Spirit guiding you, the Father looking over you and following in Jesus footsteps, it can be against us.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh gosh, it can be against Nothing can separate us from the love of God knows that is in Christ Jesus who is God, the Father.
Simon Pinchbeck:And when you understand that, yes, you read the Scripture in a different way down you read it in a different way. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Man this podcast has taken taken us down a different road in it. We've been calm and quiet normally like to cut machine guns. But this is really ping a different string on the guitar today.
Simon Pinchbeck:Now this is really you see that the lack of love from your earthly father is the bedrock of all struggles. It's the bedrock of because even pornography is a lack of intimacy if you've got lack intimacy from the far from your father, yeah, you're gonna seek it from elsewhere. So get this stuff right. Yeah, look, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's all there for us. Yeah. Wouldn't it be great to see the church go and you know what, we're gonna scrap all our plans of schools of ministries and all that stuff and we're gonna teach fathers to be fathers. Oh, wow. Well, women's ministries dropping every other agenda tempt me into this that you know, breakfast clubs. But lunch with Billy I'm pretty sure First of all, teach me a bit that
Simon Pinchbeck:we have to have leaders in the church that know how to be fathers.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And when you look at the Father What did he do he created the world God we're lacking we're lacking we're lacking a lot we're
Simon Pinchbeck:massively like this is there's a massive hole you can
Reverend Ben Cooper:see why there's a big disconnection
Simon Pinchbeck:in society there's a massive hole in the Christian you know in the Christian world if if you've got guys there that have got no clue I got
Reverend Ben Cooper:no compass they've got no got they've got no they've got no reference points. Role Models got no role model they got no reference point of our father figure. And we got well where where I read the Scripture and I find out about my Heavenly Father as so much awesome and you know, this The time has just gone Yeah, gone. Gone. And we haven't even um, we have never we have a long road. This is just no so that is that makes us think done it as as that life we use that language church leaders and pastors and whoever we are and whatever, to drop every other agenda. And teach how to be a father. Teacher drive a tank, be a teacher to be you know, men's ministries you got what men's ministry is doing. What men's ministry is teaching me to do? Have a breakfast eat curry eat curry.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, I've listened to a speaker who said a road to Damascus experience. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Teach me to be a dad. teach my dad it's not on the list.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's not on your your planner for this. We haven't this semester. It's not only won't be on there, it won't be on there at all. But but maybe it'll stop running. Stop. But yeah, because we know we got to do something.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And it's like, we know we have to do something. Teach me about father. Teach me teach me law.
Simon Pinchbeck:This this, it will change your nation Ben. It will change the world. It will change everything get this right ear will change a nation. Be honest with you. And that's you know, I've got a great friend now speaking to him yesterday. He is a guy from Texas, but he he came up with the bold encounter. Scotty Prickett is known as easy is it an amazing guys working on the Alaska he's up doing leadership courses on the Alaska pipeline at the moment. Wow. And he so he is just an amazing fella. But he said he said when we started doing these bold encounters, which we've done about 10 now across the UK, and I've done them in America and India as well and in Greece. He said you get this Right, do we change a nation is true. And it's they're not difficult. It's It's It's a simple thing. It's a couple of letters, and convicted men of secret sin and stuff that's going on. Wow. And freedom, but this freedom there
Reverend Ben Cooper:is freedom. And you're not a trophy trophy. Say,
Simon Pinchbeck:I seriously think in this talking to you while we're bantering, I really think that we could start to do something with the Father thing. I think his thing is massive. I think it's huge. And I think you've, you actually said that you've stumbled on it, clear out, clear out, the youth ministry is clear out, you know, clear out, clear out the decks. And let's teach men teach men how to be proper, godly fathers who vow Jesus tight, follow Jesus. And let Jesus lead into the father and introduce their children into that. Because is a is another thing on the back of that. When have you ever heard of a father, Christian father, giving his son a blessing? You don't hear of it. Do you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's all the way through to Bibles all the way through the Bible all the way through the Bible? Yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:the black is important that we I had to go to Texas to receive a blessing from a fella who was studied by my father.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah. It's powerful. It's powerful that we're blessed pastor. We're blessed the leaders. And I'll tell you that time for my children, I
Simon Pinchbeck:tell you this, I've done this this stuff with literally hundreds of guys. And then when we can obviously, you know, the pandemics a bit more difficult to do it on zoom. But when we can I ask every guy Do you want a hug from the Father? Oh, no one has turned it down. No one has turned it down. Every man wants a hug from the Father.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Related there,
Simon Pinchbeck:we'll leave it there.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Simon, we thank you so much. We can go on and on and on. We will come on and we will go on. So we just thank you so much for listening. Wherever you are across the world, you know, look up, lift your eyes up, lift your eyes up and look to the Father in heaven. You Father in Heaven is shining down your Father in Heaven is is waiting for you to run back the protocols. The Father's arms are always open, no strings attached. This is my son that I'm well pleased. And that's what God is ringing out from heaven above. This is my son that I'm well place my sons and my daughters. Yeah, sons. We are sons and daughters. Simon, we will catch you very, very soon. We thank you so much for sharing your heart. May God bless you, wherever you are everyone listening around the world. You've been listening to so and pinch back myself, Reverend Benjamin Leonard Cooper. And thank you for joining us wherever you are on planet Earth.
Simon Pinchbeck:I want to say amen to that Ben, but I'm just want to finish with this. I feel that I should finish with this is that when you when you find that love from the Father, when you have any penny dropped with me a few years ago when you find that love from the Father, you don't want to be any where else ever, ever those arms. You don't want to be released from that. It's just an amazing feeling. So follow Jesus. Let him lead you to the Father. Amen. Amen. Amen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's it. God bless. Stay safe. Stay under the word today in the presence of the Father. In Jesus name. Amen.