Hello and welcome to our podcast here at Elim church. You're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and we are so glad that you are with us today. Wherever you are in the world and we are discussing prayer and it is Saturday and it is half past 12 ish. And this is going to be poked out really lively. All right, calm down. And we have in the house today. Bishop pro warrior musician, Leya,
Leya:Jane Moore.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And you can find us on buzzsprout Spotify. Apple Music, I Heart Radio, Google Play, Alexa.
Leya:Facebook. You your job.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There you go. Good morning.
Leya:Good morning. let myself go
Reverend Ben Cooper:about me. What about me? It's all about me. It's not all about me. It's all about prayer. It's all about prayer. It's all
Leya:about prayer today.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We had a long night last night, didn't we? Yeah, we did. Yeah. Yeah, that was every night in the church. There's a lot of praise, a lot of prayers going on last night.
Leya:Praise and prayer
Reverend Ben Cooper:interest in Saturday morning, and we are just rambling on about prayer. We hope you are well, wherever you are around the world. And God is with you. That is the most important thing. And we may be experiencing a third wave brushing the shores of the UK, but are gone. Oh, God will keep a strong prayer away, isn't it? You know, everything we've got to do? It has to be prayer. The Bible speaks so much obviously about prayer. Yeah, but what actually is it? when you really think about
Leya:what good question? That's a good question. And one I didn't think you were going to ask. Yeah, that was like, I think somebody
Reverend Ben Cooper:put that in you. What is a prayer? prayer? Is it a conversation from my heart to Gods? That is it? Is that simple? Is that the wrong word to use? Simple?
Leya:No, because it can be quite complex con it, that conversation as it gets to the truth.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And when you start speaking the truth, you get a sense of freedom as well. But I think religion is my prayer. complicated, isn't it? Because also, it makes it that you gotta be as loud as you possibly can. You gotta be worthy. The louder you are, the more of a prayer warrior. You are. Yeah. And then you've got certain religions have got prayer books, where you go, I know they've got some lovely prayers. Or
Leya:they are you don't really understand. This is not a criticism. I just don't understand the idea of the rosary beads and preying on the rosary beads. I don't I don't understand that. Is that iconic? Is that? I don't know.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's, um, it's awkward. That's fair. It's not what I want to talk about other forms of other religious things. That's my mind, isn't it? Yeah. Cuz that. Let's be honest, let's just clear this up. That's not scripture. Now, the way you look at it as a church thing as the religion of religion thing. Yeah. So when you pray to a person, a person? Yeah, that is not scripture. Yeah. Unless it's Jesus, the man the man, as the scripture says in Christ in in in the Scripture, it says, the man Christ Jesus. So we have to be really careful. Don't wait. Because
Leya:anything else is iconography. If you're praying to a saint, you're praying to Mary. Yeah, instead of Jesus. Although Mary's mother Gordon.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, but you still can't listen for lovely, beautiful lady. Yeah. And chosen to do what she'd done. But as a human being. Yeah, that's right. And the scripture makes it very clear, doesn't it? So prayer is between the human and our invisible God? Yeah.
Leya:Well, there's some times I know, we've had this conversation before. And you've said to me, they're the same layer, and you went there the same layer? Sometimes I pray to Jesus, sometimes I pray to God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:They are the same, but they're not the same.
Leya:Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Jesus is me. My and God's me, dad. Oh, so the scripture says, what Jesus says, I am the Father are one. But we know that Christ when Christ come to this earth, we know that he came as the invisible God, and the Word became flesh. Yeah. So yes, it's Christ. So we understand as well, the spirit of the Holy Ghost is at the beginning of the time. So they're all interwoven at certain points and
Leya:interesting and mind bending concepts, very little human being to try and
Reverend Ben Cooper:grasp Exactly. It's just like, oh, because when Jesus says, I'm just here to do my father's will. He's recognizing that he has a father and that they're not separate. But no extension of each other. Yeah. And then then he says, as I just said, I and I and the Father are one. Yeah, I am in my father's house. Yeah. What's the will of the Father for me? Yeah, it's me. Yeah. And y'all can get to the Father except through me. The same person. You can feel my face just turned into the Milky Way. It's just mad. Some things are too big. We just have to leave it then. Yeah, yeah, but with theological studying sometimes I think you can go so deep you go down a rabbit hole get bit lost and you get lost and you could spend years and months and hours that's where faith comes into some Yeah, sometimes you just got a go. Do you know what? I've got a bit of an idea. Yeah, but I'll just leave it at that. And all I'm gonna do is just believe in God.
Leya:Believe just believe because I think concept and we're gonna, I'm gonna resign myself and surrender
Reverend Ben Cooper:and just believe in theological studying is needed. expository sermonizing and teaching and line by line and all that that's really really needed caught it is to to pull the jaws you know the treasure out of the water. Nice.
Leya:eloquent Baba Baba.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes, I come from Swanley.
Leya:He never,
Reverend Ben Cooper:ever except a guy was birthed in a shopping trolley outside of Moses, the Swanley Moses,
Leya:you're not Swanley Moses was birth shopping. Benjamin Leonard Cooper. Yeah. You keep telling everyone,
Reverend Ben Cooper:ya know, people were, especially Steve Valler. He. He started a cotton on that one. Well, Benjamin Leonard Cooper - BLC. Yeah,
Leya:some people call Jesus JC so yeah. Anyway, prayer anyway, prayer prayer. The reason why I want to I want to tell you tell the lovely listeners. Why I wanted to talk about it is because I was talking to one of our sisters, yeah, about it. And she said that she was praying. And I said, Well, you know, it's, it's amazing to pray. And God will answer your prayer. But it's how he answers your prayer. So God often doesn't give you the thing that you asked for in the most simplest way. Sometimes it doesn't.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Sometimes you don't even give you what you ask,
Leya:here's, here's a parent. So he doesn't give you the easy route. It gives you the learning route, sometimes
Reverend Ben Cooper:the stretching route, or the train route. The route where you're going. Come on. Yeah, if I don't see something now, yeah. This is not going to work. Yeah. Something has to happen. prescription medication. Yeah. Like young overweight, was talking about the Lord's Prayer when we when we read, love that podcast. And Jesus was at the beginning. He was like, talking about the Pharisees in this exercise in Babel. And then he went into the pagans, didn't he afterwards,
Leya:they stand on the street corners wobbling and cracking or go in a room and pray on your own. Yeah. What you said really struck me. Prayer is powerful. I connect with me. Yeah, it's very powerful,
Reverend Ben Cooper:powerful
Leya:belief that they can pray for anything that I'm going to pray to win the lottery. And if sorry, that's why my mom says it because she's a lottery. Yeah. They think that they're going to pray to win the lottery. And if their prayer doesn't get answered, they don't believe that God is here in them. That's where
Reverend Ben Cooper:a lot of Christians be rich.
Leya:But that's just now you should No, there's another one. That's a bad, bad boy. Action. But so for example, I pray for patients because I don't have a lot of patients in my life. And I'm like, now, I've got a project on I need to be done. I need this person to do this for me, if they don't do it for me, I get really panicky and stressed and then I start into sort of like a cycle of anxiety. And I believe it says the Bible Do not be anxious for anything but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving. let your requests be made known to God. Philippians four six, yes. ESV.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Beautifully put. So what I did was I prayed for patients. Now I thought that God would go here. Here's a big chunk of patients, it's like slice a cake. Eat the patient's cake, and you'll be able to understand everything that I've got tested, stretched, absolutely. ever worked with the patient where it was like Why get right, get patient on this. Yeah, totally. A total reverse.
Leya:But I knew that it was happening. I recognized it because I thought I've prayed for this. This is what's happening. I'm being stretched. So I'm being put into situations where my patients is being tested. Did more so that I'll understand what patients really is. And I think that happens a lot of times that I
Reverend Ben Cooper:read on your face. I love stories like this where people break something and they wait they go and then suddenly, it's highlighted with the Jesus highlighted pin. And it's a great pen as a great pen and you start to see, can we say failings? Or could we say issues is very tricky way tricky because we are all human beings something they're not they think they're superhumans. But we are all flesh and blood we all make mistakes we all foul. So you look at pride you look at anger, you look at unforgiveness, you look at all that sort of stuff. There are things that I should be praying for. Lord remove everything from me. Yeah, but the culture is churches switched everything around, isn't it? You know, come is just chat a minute about the motivational stuff. Check enlightenment and climate you can have it you can have it you can you can have it the selling pyramid system, a satanic selling system.
Leya:Like their prayers are more worthy. That's the thing. If you send me in this money, I'll pray for you. And and everything will be all right.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But Satan worshippers pray is who you're praying to. Yeah. Which is a form of prayer.
Leya:Yeah. Who will you choose to worship who you choose? which was awesome.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So prayer it's powerful stuff because there's the dark side of it. Where you've got the the black dark black magic the witchcraft or sorcery, the curses the the spells and all that sort
Leya:of stuff is very real essentially all religions pray Yeah, yeah, that's sorry, that's really obvious but in my mind, it just meant
Reverend Ben Cooper:you praying to Yeah, that's that is the that's the key, isn't it? Yeah. So you talking about praying for the lottery praying for worldly goods? God's not going to give you that's not going to give you that it's not gonna stretch shows. How do I know that God is not gonna give me any anything of any materialism whatsoever? because firstly, he said drop me next come and follow me. Awesome. So you leave everything? Yeah. What did Jesus own? Nothing Nothing. Literally when you think about grave bird grave bertos dad stuff. But in all seriousness, yeah, that DeWalt drill. One How long is battery lasted? And then I had to charge you know, electric. He might have had Lazarus on the bike, you know? exercise. Yeah, I think Mark killed Lazarus. He's exhausted. Brother. My stomach's rumbling Can you hear me if we get after this? Tell him bacon sandwich for
Leya:moms. They're
Reverend Ben Cooper:not supposed to be discussing. Discussing prayer. Aunty so? No, she's my mum. No, she's everyone else's Arnie. So yeah, she is Yeah, she's like a on these podcasts as you keep mentioning me. And I'm like, Yeah, you're a local celebrity Auntie so oldest one is coming up for a big bacon sandwich is cup of tea. See address? I will be very I'm not telling your address. I know the address. I know you're doing really bad if I said that on a worksheet. She She would be praying for you to be sold off. struck by lightning. Yeah. Amen. prayer. Prayer. Will it come true? No. I'm gonna tell everyone selfish
Leya:thing though. Selfish prayers. Are that is that the thing where you're praying for monetary goods? Or I want this. I want that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So so me, Me. Me. Me. Me is a fleshly Why isn't it's a Christ had nothing. Even though the scripture says he owns a world. Come on. Let's just leave that one a minute. We know what he owns. We know who he was. But in the man Christ Jesus and the young boy growing up in a in a home with lots of kids flying around lots of stuff going on. We didn't he didn't have a mansion. He didn't he didn't have he only had the bare necessities and not real now we're not going to sing off singing it stop.
Leya:Is is a real King. Is the Prince of Peace. Yeah, the prince of a principality.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Oh. When you when you look at interest in, isn't it? Because when you look at a lot of so called prosperity preachers, the one that's give us the gospel had less than any of them. Yeah. In material items. He prayed. He prayed for people. As if he fed people he prayed for people. Yeah, he gave him one. I gave him wine. sorry sure thing he gave us passover which is coming where they're almost we're right in the dawn it's quite interesting isn't it that when you look at christ he had a bird term he wouldn't have had a wardrobe full of fine clothing he didn't have monetary value he didn't have a great big enormous house very little is known about that side of it but when you look and study the culture around that what they how they would have cooked how they would lived how hard they would have worked was all that sort of stuff there's no prosperity as in monetary and earthly goods
Leya:in the bible i would only think of two times when he prayed for himself which was in the garden father if you can yeah and then father forgive them so he only prayed as far as i'm aware other people yeah he never prayed for himself
Reverend Ben Cooper:always praying for other people
Leya:yeah which is something i i do i try and do that i tend not to the only times ever pray for myself as if i'm like
Reverend Ben Cooper:the father can you make me more if you've got fear or worry but that's not so
Leya:i need your help i say that god i need your help or i'll say god can you please make me more faithful can you please make me more patient
Reverend Ben Cooper:i had a common prayer to pray isn't it for everybody yeah because i know we have moments where we're really at the top of the mountain praising the lord and everything's good yeah but do we do we pray to him when everything's good are there any pray to him we have things a little bit dusty in a bit murky often tricky in it if you're praying for people you're praying continually yeah so the bible says pro se sin
Leya:yeah
Reverend Ben Cooper:ii think of that pray without ceasing the bible says yeah it's a lifestyle exactly my whole lifestyle is praising and worshiping as
Leya:jesus talking to nice is the difference between talking to your own conscience which you do naturally as a human being and raising that consciousness
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah god yeah but deep i know are quite
Leya:like the fact that it came out on a saturday morning when i've refined yeah yeah it was late night late night
Reverend Ben Cooper:you know prayer changes things yeah the bible says the prayers of a righteous person is powerful and effective like but what about what about the great biblical writer that wrote three times i pleaded with the lord to take it away from me and he didn't he didn't he didn't take that away so whatever that was on the body in his life or whatever without going into the wills of that three times i pleaded with the lord to take this from me but he said my grace so that is that's sufficient that's that's that's the answer that you want isn't it that is grace will carry you through your time of pressing the phone in the side the push the struggle because we don't know his plans we don't know if plans come back to christ in the garden again if it is possible take this cup from me but he know what the future was but he was still asking
Leya:yeah but what about that time when he said to it so so pay paul paul also logic was asked if he can see you like wait but i will pray for you simon simon simon i need to get on and
Reverend Ben Cooper:simon the devil is asked that he can sift you like wait but i have prayed for you
Leya:yeah
Reverend Ben Cooper:so that's all you need jesus is praying for you yeah bush but they didn't recognize who he was so you want if you think if the disciple himself god i want to be sifted at all why can you just
Leya:that's what we're coming down to in it is this the disciple must have like had that moment of absolute fear and wouldn't it be easier if
Reverend Ben Cooper:you just took this as asked
Leya:yeah wouldn't it be easier if you just took this away from me well it probably would be easier but you wouldn't be stretched to the point where you become immaculate
Reverend Ben Cooper:the person that i want you to be yeah cuz there's that claim about you yeah but laying it down surrender surrendering prayer so it's not the length of the prayer because christ really clears he clearly tells us don't stand on street corners making a racket like the pharisees and the sadducees just to be seen to be doing it so that bounces straight into the church culture that we got today I'm seem to be noisy. I've got to be really holy if I'm seen to be praying long. I'm almost closer to Jesus than you are. Sort of hate that. I'm sorry, but I hate that. That's, that's a big part that goes on dinner. I
Leya:mean, that's a really strong word hate, but they were hating, I manipulation. I hate that manipulation of people, that I am more holy than you. I ever I have a route to Jesus that you don't. Yeah, that's not it. All you got to do is believe
Reverend Ben Cooper:Pharisees and the Sadducees. All over that is, you know, finally dressed, sounding good. Showing up to this and showing up to that standing on street corners rattling on his desk noise about about one person is high if if prayer was about public performance at
Leya:church that the church should be, it should be people's hearts talking to God. Yeah. And then you don't need to build in No, you don't
Reverend Ben Cooper:need to we don't need to build. Sorry, I don't mean to say this, but then you don't need a pastor even you just need it. Well. Well, house pastors, elders, obviously from the Bible, but therefore
Leya:an aged above an age above, I think you concentrate things. Now, can you hear? Hungry for bacon is it's like, you're trying to admit stuff is talking about you. I know. That's why I'm not worried over the point of a pastor, I believe is to focus the prayer, focus the meaning and bring people into a point of
Reverend Ben Cooper:concentration. pastoral, pastoral supports pastoral helps pastoral. You would be the first person to say, I'm not the center of prayer. No way. I'm not the center of nafa. We'll pray with you. Yeah, but, you know, Pastor, the shepherds on the shepherds leading. But just because you're a leader doesn't mean to say hi, eight that word. Just I know. Just because that you might be in a position setting some church. That means say you got life, right. Anything I'm starting to realize. far down the tubes. I am. Do you forgive me?
Leya:I do. But I think I think we're about that now. In this church since the pandemic, yeah, we're circle.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We're sorry. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's really important. Yeah, God has done something that I really believe across the earth. believers. Yeah. not religious. entrenched in concrete. Boots. Yeah. Tradition, we are talking about disciples that are hungry, that have really had to search themselves. And light and all that is their prayer. like Steve, and we were saying the other day, you have to quit? Am I saved with a chain where he does get the shovel and does take me a little bit deeper. He does a lot of dig a deep, deep. I
Leya:mean, I love I love his conversation.
Reverend Ben Cooper:great conversation is, but the question is, is that that is a general question that should be thrown out across the platform of a Messiah Jesus, because nothing else matters about our eternal we are so that's the promise that he gave us on the cross. Yeah, but but it's live justly. How can you live justly in a skip? That's live without the UK? Trying to live live faithfully? That's what we all do. We all live faithfully. Yeah. The flesh is weak and flesh. Oh, come on, you carry on. But when you look at the UK, the flesh is weak. I believe that we've got all forests, right. Yes, you are right, Matthew. We are living in a nation that certain areas of leadership are more humanist more than spiritual.
Leya:for one second that Boris Johnson sorry Boris but I believe he pries I don't believe in great Priti Patel prize or they believe Rishi su neck brace. And if they prayed and asked for guidance,
Reverend Ben Cooper:so the thing is, if if we was that christian nation, we would have had spiritual representation in all of the news alerts and all the number 10 we conversations we would we would have a strong Bible believing fit sound doctrine representation for the Bible believing Christians,
Leya:you wouldn't have such disparity in this country? Because at the moment, you've got rich getting very, very rich and the poor remain in very, very, very, very poor. Yeah. And you just got to look at the levels of the way that people are treated in the hospitals and Sarna, and the poor NHS lovely people. I
Reverend Ben Cooper:mean, now stretch, stretch, stretch ironmans 1% pay rise and pay rise. Sure. But do you believe that somebody that prayed every day, and had God in their heart would do that? No, no, exactly. Say litical. there? Yeah, a little bit political. That's right. We live in freedom of speech. Yeah, yeah, we are free, we have freedom to debate and discuss.
Leya:But going back to what you were saying, if we were in a proper Christian Bible believing society, then we would be praying in our homes every single day as a majority of people. Yeah. And therefore, when the church is closed, during the pandemic, we wouldn't feel so isolated and alone, because the church would be asked, yeah, do you not I mean, we're, we're doing so many podcasts and like, that everybody follows whatever we do. And we get people come into our Facebook, sermons and Bible study. Activism, and a lot of people is people that have never been to the church and the church. Yeah, yeah. So those people are obviously searching for something they're searching for prayer. Yeah, they're searching for that that interview. Because that's the one thing I like about prayer is when we pray together, yeah. So the Bible says that were two or three, were two or three are gathered.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There. I'm in the midst.
Leya:So why, why is it that prayer is stronger when there's more people together, praying on your own, when the Bible also says go to your, on your own? I
Reverend Ben Cooper:think I think you've got to look at that. And two sides of that. Because if it was, if one way was more powerful, and then the other way, it won't be scripture. So you've got to look at the way Christ is talking about that in context of the arena that they're in at that particular point. So when you say where the two or three are gathered, there I am, you know, when you're in just a couple of years, and you're in a quiet space, and you're just praying? You ain't got no surprise, you know, I'm not saying a little prayer, but then the Bible says in it when I was looking, go into that quiet space, close the door, when no one can see you. Yeah. So prayer. There's two sides to it, praying in the body with each other for encouragement and healing and uplifting and everything that goes along with all that, but also there is a prayer time that needs to go on that's just between us and God. Yeah, in a quiet space. So both have their places.
Leya:Yeah. And what Sorry, I'm asking you questions, but but but you're already a little bit of an encyclopedia of knowledge around this. I don't know if you know that food. No. It is about food to go Why is it that people fast? And pray? Like because I don't get that? Because if our fast I get hangry
Reverend Ben Cooper:angry angry, or it's the spirit raging pressure I would I say against the flesh. So that's why I get hangry because yeah, you because you're you're against yourself and you're you're not surrendering to what your flesh wants.
Leya:Okay?
Reverend Ben Cooper:So when you fast the Bible makes it very clearly about fasting now this is important about lent as well. Yeah, this is what I want to know a lot of people because it's the calendar so rightly so. I get that please I'm not not not coming against the biblical calendar but what is the purpose of me giving up the dairy milk? If I don't really mean it and putting it around the office what you given up were given up were you given up wages? Is that just like the equivalent of babbling it's just it's just I can I can do it. I can do it I can win true fast in takes you to a different level not about boasting. It takes you to a spiritual place that you get. How can you explain it? Well, that's what I want to know. When you break that break through points that break through points your body is crying out for sustenance, your body your fleshly bodies, but then you're the spirit me is longing to go further because something supernatural obviously happens. So it makes it very clear that the scripture says Man does not live on bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. So we get fed more from God's word, we get fat, literally, from the junk that we eat. And it you know, what's really important is that I should have a lifestyle around me of prayer and fasting. But the fasting is a very personal thing that I saw, the Bible says, When you first put oil on your face, no, put some meat on myself look good. So no one can see that you're fasting. Yeah. So there's another issue, don't go share it around the office is left to unknowingly hide the fact I was hangry. And I find that really difficult because there's a separation of body and spirit, okay, so that that's a clear clear Teller, your body is going come on dry fruits, dried fruit. Is it in me resistance, that the temptation and the resistance, the resistance, Christ's crisis in the wilderness, fast in in price was about 40 days, 40 nights is a push for. But what you find is when you start too fast, and you mean it with your heart, and you give up, whatever that may be, and you press and you and you feel that hunger, pain, you say, God, I need your strength, I've got to push through, I've got to push through, it's, it's when you get that feeling on the flesh coming towards you. And your whole body is weak and tired that you got to push for it. So you can feel the spiritual breakthrough, you can feel a sharpening. And then suddenly you reach a place where you think on this is this is better than eating food. It's not about a public display. It's not about running around the office, fast and fast. And look at me. Look at me, look at me.
Leya:I'm gonna release it, we can release it. And I just say that, that from what you're saying to me, there is a difference, very, very strong difference between the idea of like, in other religions, they meditate to the point where they try and forget that the flesh exists. So that is a complete difference that what
Reverend Ben Cooper:you're doing because
Leya:you're actually seeking something to know they're trying to get you. They're trying to steal everything I say they still, whereas you're actually aiming and grasping for God's word trying Joshua. So this direction is so different, because otherwise people might think it's the same thing. You got to be careful when you're
Reverend Ben Cooper:talking about the spirit world that that we are. Our belief is built on spiritual beliefs. Yeah, just believe. Scripture makes it very clear to live by faith. So it is you're believing and we're believing in the unseen God. Yeah. And Christ said to the disciples, it's alright for you chumps. You've seen me. But what about the lot that haven't seen me? I've got a go on just belief. Yeah. 2000 years. It's a spiritual world that we are in. So meditating can open the gateway to dark things. Yeah. So you got to be careful with prayer and meditation. Then you bring it into the word yoga, you get slapped around for using that claim, then you bring it into the Kundalini spirit. And then you're bringing into foreign gods and goddesses.
Leya:I wanted to stipulate that there was an absolute difference as the difference asked him for prayer. And that meditative stillness.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And then you go into the area of trance, and you got to be careful that you don't go into a trance and you don't go into satanic trance and into Masonic deep, deep. Yeah. Black worship. Yeah, there's a fine, there's a fine line. But there's
Leya:a weird thing as well in the religious world, of like punishing yourself putting yourself in a in pain in order to cry and get into that situation. Yeah, yes. It's not right.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Is it? Yeah. Yeah. Some is not themselves. premonition about pain? Because he says Don't be anxious. Don't be anxious. So from Wickham yourself with a feather duster, yourself? Yeah, yeah, my skin. Yeah, it's crazy. If it's all you got to
Leya:have a conversation with your heart and Gods if that's how you're trying to do it, do you not I mean, it doesn't make any sense to me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:People. Yeah, people whip them Sure. Why I why. In just why. Just like, how is that gonna make you have a conversation a lot. I try and bring God's a lot of people try and bring themselves in certain religious areas where I've got to suffer as Christ suffered. So they're whipping themselves did it
Leya:for us, so
Reverend Ben Cooper:that he took all Want transgressions, all my iniquities all my pain everything to the cross
Leya:Pacific that blows my mind and we talk about this quite a lot during the sermons on Sunday and during Bible study that all those people that did that to him yeah he then on the cross yeah as he was dying I prayed for them
Reverend Ben Cooper:for forgive them for they No No Why do
Leya:what how powerful was prayer that it could set everybody free forever
Reverend Ben Cooper:that well forgive them that there's there's um there's a prayer a believer could pray that could change everything yeah Father forgive them for they know what they do yeah so I could just gently and quietly pray that in my quiet space against my beautiful ones that come against me yeah Couldn't you Father forgive them for they know know what they do father and it talks about doesn't it about praying and forgiveness for your enemy and those that want to rob me or giving me a coat they want to slap you on the other cheek? Yeah, feeding your em an enemy. How hard is that? How hard is that because aside, you're so far away because you're going again. You're going against cuz your body and your flesh is driving you to do the opposite to what the spiritual is. Yeah.
Leya:But what about that? Daniel in the lion's den, Daniel lion's den he was it? Is it David analyze them? No, Daniel. So he prayed and, and was persecuted for his prayer. People around the world are persecuted for praying this rabbinic conversation. You know, I mean, it's just that Whoa, prayer is really,
Reverend Ben Cooper:prayer is a hot subject for trouble with authorities. Yeah. But you can pray to affirm God. You can pray to the what the government put in place, you can pray to them foreign idols and Gods but when you live in a nation, in a certain parts of the world where you like, like Daniel, if you come back to Daniel again, where he was asked that at certain times that he would never pray, never pray, but he would say, well, we did. He went upstairs to his room.
Leya:The Bible says
Reverend Ben Cooper:profit place at pride, pride, pride, pride, pride, pride, a man of prayer men of prophecy. So the challenge is, is don't give up praying don't give up praying quite deep in it for Saturday when you think about it is sorry, I didn't realize to be quite this deep laugh with it. But we are a little chuckle but fasting and prayer is a separation of flesh. Yeah. Separation of self. Yeah. And the world is all about self. Yeah. Oh yeah. Rich you can be you can be
Leya:worship
Reverend Ben Cooper:to God you can be you can be so what the earthly may once is the opposite to what God wants God wants. So he has he knows the plans that He has for us. And how do I find Jeremiah? How do I find them plans are gonna get in the garden. We never know the plans until the end. You know, the plan. You learn to plan Fathers will because what the scripture is you find the will what he's plan is for you at different different times for dog is going to finish right because yeah. But he says the steps of a good person ordained by the Lord. So it's his understanding who you are in Christ. And what your calling is and what your journey is not to say that you're going to go right Tuesday, that's gonna there are some things that are given some things that will naturally happen because of work and everything. But there are some things where you got to live. Well, we are living by faith in everything that we do. You just got to surrender. So when people say what's the plan? What's the plan? I read the word and it will give me an outline. Oh, yeah, outline plan is to be Christ like,
Leya:yeah, yeah, yeah. But as the as all of those. He gives us all of those models of prayer,
Reverend Ben Cooper:boy, yeah. And they're so clever. In it in it was Jesus. He is clever.
Leya:He is clever. Boy, he's a clever he tells you just believe a call get to God for me. And this is a pray.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But then suddenly, the church comes along and religion and makes it really complicated. Yeah.
Leya:This time at this day, yeah. And I'll pray for you at this time on this day and your stand up the front. You've got come out the front and then I'll put my hand on you. Yeah. And pray for you. And at that point, everything will be cured and you'll be able to walk again.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, and then another place. Yeah, Tom, come and sit in the box. Tell me every thing
Leya:yeah yeah and then go off and then this is the bit that gets me you tell me what you've done wrong and then i'll tell you like a ransom for your
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah
Leya:i'll tell you how many prayers you have to say to be somebody that isn't god
Reverend Ben Cooper:but jesus he gets he can see the catholic church i'm sorry sorry sorry sir it gets so religious so bogged down and heavy yeah religion can tie you down and exhaustion yeah but prayer should be like because it's ritual a ritual is hard work truth that becomes a right it becomes a right and i've got to do it and it has to be done in this and yet the bible says pray without ceasing but is a lifestyle is a heart condition is not a pressure is not on when the bible says you shall know the truth and the truth has set you free i believe from what the chains of slavery and the slavery chains are religion money and materialism and socialism and performing for this person that person you know come to christ all of you that are weary heavy laden and i'll give you a cheeseburger had that cheeseburger how do you come to christ surrender true prayer for hang on yeah but we could go a little bit further
Leya:gone
Reverend Ben Cooper:he comes to maybe for for the world even creates yes you gotta run pack everything you've got and you can't unpack
Leya:this is not what we said at the
Reverend Ben Cooper:end is my brain on it i decided to follow jesus that song it's a lovely song but he actually sing it a lot and he chose me
Leya:yes i found christ like how do i this is something that i have been thinking about a lot over the last couple of weeks right so i wasn't always a christian and so how do i say that i didn't find christ like
Reverend Ben Cooper:three years ago predestination
Leya:so was i always a christian and at that point i open my eyes no no no say i open my eyes
Reverend Ben Cooper:what's that what is what is a christian christ in me so when i when i was in it a christian is is that when christ within so before i'm not a believer so i'm a believer i'm not a believer i simply got we got to keep it simple but if you don't believe yet and he's the father of all this the father of all is
Leya:the father of all by me i believe in before i was a christian i believe that i existed and if he created me therefore i believe that he existed
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah but you wasn't i don't like to use this word i use it conscious spiritual that is awaken spiritually conscious on my spirit wasn't aware
Leya:yeah
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah yeah yeah because it was just the world that is exactly the world the world the world the world the world the world but when you really look deep in it before before the world come in being yeah he chose us they created us it's just too much something that something's just your brain just
Leya:it's just he knows every hair on our head he created stars in the sky and then we have this conversation of prayer with him yeah and it feels like overnight the smallest thing in the world to somebody so massive and awesome and
Reverend Ben Cooper:but take away the label of prayer and peel back peel it backwards it's a conversation conversation conversation with
Leya:every christian it is the thing that blows my mind well every christian in the world how many christians are there 1000s millions of christians uncountable so how many people are having that conversation with god all at the same time and he's
Reverend Ben Cooper:every single one and these are these are farther
Leya:and knows the plans he has for every single one of us and the ones that are not even born yeah and makes the decision that prayer is prayer
Reverend Ben Cooper:i just think that's like you can't work that and then what about when when the older they have eschatology cosmic christ comes in the dead will rise in bodily form as that gonna be when you think about the greatness of everything you bring everything together bring everything together it's beyond human understanding is it's beyond the face of it shakes myself you can almost see our religion takes it and moves it because it people want To make up answers, I think that's absolutely 100% true. People want to make up and know, something, I think all the time, we are fighting that the airways fought to say, I know, we
Leya:existed. There's been people that have tried to manipulate its word by saying I understand it, and you don't? Yeah. And that's the beauty of prayer, because it takes out that middle person. Yeah, that that takes it out. It's just assist as sincere and honest conversation with God, the more I want.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Christ
Leya:in,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the more I realize, I'm far from where I thought I was, Oh, yes. Do you know what I mean? I do. The more that you want more understanding? Yeah, the more you realize this book is too big. Yeah, too big, too big for. And then that's where the educators come in, and the ones that are that can really go deep in theological study. And then sometimes you can go so deep, you lose the spiritual understanding of what should be, because you're going so deep, you're trying to pour the time trying to cry, go, I've got to the full stop, and that sit on that when you actually can't, because it's going deeper. If you can get to the end of the book. It's no spiritual book. Yeah, because it is always expanding, as in, it's moving, it will speak to you it will, you've only got a flick the page open, and it will speak on your finger. Where did that come from? You try and find it. It's
Leya:the thing that does my headache, because I'm a tiny grain of sand in an ocean of sand like, and, like throughout time, and throughout time, there's more bits of sand coming into that ocean. And yet I can open up that book by can tell me the thing that talks to me at that point.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can how not
Leya:just how
Reverend Ben Cooper:academia can't fathom. Our amazing because it's spiritual. So just the Word of God, it's so powerful that you could flick the page open. And you look at it, and it's talking to you and you go back blink of an eye and you think, what was that? Yeah, because it's so and but you know what I mean? But I could, academia and knowledge puffs up and fluffs up, it will get you so far. Yeah, but believe in is different. Believe in Yeah, and saying this is what this means. When somebody takes the Bible. This is what this means? Well, no, it means a different thing to every person that reads it. Because all of our prayers are individual. And it will open up and speak to you because it's a relationship between you and the father. Absolute prayer is powerful. We got one this up.
Leya:Yeah, no, no.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I can hear the frying pan sizzling. Yes.
Leya:I'll get there and she's not my seat. She doesn't offer me a bacon sandwich. I'm gonna cry. Pray back on the way up. Because I'm not gonna pray for material things. Not materials food. It passed. Look put down your nets and your bacon sandwiches and follow me
Reverend Ben Cooper:pasture bread upon the water cost your bacon sandwich cost your bacon in the frying pan. Its return Come on. Thank you for everyone that's listening wherever you are this morning. You know we thank God for your life My good strength you and bless you. When you have a lovely frying pan day today. Yeah, joy. Egg chips. Now I'm just having bacon bacon sandwich, no source. Data Source Nat Allah sauce, my brand.
Leya:So you know, I had to stay away before I was a Christian. I say our smell bacon smell God's breath. It's just so good.
Reverend Ben Cooper:things, but that stopped me right? Well, I remember bacon because your mom got gas or electric electric. Sort of his power car.
Leya:Don't tease me about this. You might get at the top of the row because we've got a guest barbecue. I'll make a do it on that. Alaska.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I won't make Alaska
Leya:because I respect her respect to big time. She's a lovely lady. Lovely. All
Reverend Ben Cooper:right. Good afternoon. Good morning, wherever you are across the world. Thank you so much. You've been listening to layer j more. And isn't me. Oh, yeah. Me. Yeah. Reverend Ben Cooper and we thank you so much. Please share everything we do on buzzsprout You can
Leya:find us on buzzsprout
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can find some bass bra first sub bass bass, Spotify Apple Music, I Heart Radio Google Play Alexa, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, bass rap and in the cache. I have a great day. Stay safe. Keep following Jesus never give up. I man Enjoy your food.