Hello and welcome. Thank you for joining us here on our podcast Elim church. You're joining myself Reverend Ben Cooper and we are so glad that you are with us today as we gather around the mics wherever you are across planet Earth. We thank you for joining us today and today we have Leya
Leya:Hello,
Reverend Ben Cooper:les Hello, how Leya?
Leya:Oh, hello is not my middle name is Jane is Jane Leya
Reverend Ben Cooper:Jane Moore.
Leya:The crowd goes
Reverend Ben Cooper:bomb.
Leya:They did they went that way.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I went nuts. Saturday. As fast as fast.
Leya:I know that today is 43214 for what is the fourth Of March 2021 4321. When in March 4 day, no. are Americans that's an American diet Trump language flame in America. Sorry, American people. We love America Do you know listening to us in America and Honolulu, Hawaii? Honolulu, Hawaii,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Hawaii,
Leya:Cleveland, Ontario. Where are the other places we've had Texas?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Texas, Texas,
Leya:Texas 4321. Today, just saying.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But what is it?
Leya:It's the third day of April 2021. So it's the fourth month the third day. 21 is the year 4321.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What's the relevance there?
Leya:dusty been 43210? Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:gosh. Well, you're joining us today. In Elim churches. We've just had a bit of trivia they're just coming sorry that you are listening to layer j more and you're listening to me
Leya:Benjamin Leonard Cooper.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Thank you very much. So I want to get tight as a bishop.
Leya:Bishop Benjamin Cooper. carpet. Yeah. You're gonna be presiding over the royal wedding of whatever royal family there are next kogas. You're going to be Princess Charlotte. You'll be doing their work the wedding. That'd be why. I don't think they have called good marriages.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But you can find us on we can now countries. Oh, you can find us on buzzsprout Spotify. Apple Music
Leya:I Heart Radio. Google Play Alexa, Facebook. Instagram, YouTube. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I need that cake today.
Leya:I have a cake. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Let's talk about food. Let's
Leya:talk about cake. So. Yeah. Because it's Monday, Thursday. And I work with a Christian. She wanted to have a little bit of a face today.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So your cake
Leya:we add? Well, they add noodles. I add stir fry. Oh yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Lovely.
Leya:And then she made a lemon drizzle cake. But then another one of my colleagues came and bought a load of cakes in as well. So we add them to anyone will tell you like food. I do like food. I do. Now that's that's that's God's gift to me. Yeah. And appreciation of the finer things in life, including food.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Manor, the manor, the manor fell from McDonald's.
Leya:Now, I haven't been able to afford McDonald's for a little while, but it's been paid out yesterday. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's a star and we're remembering Jesus and what he's done for us. Yeah, exactly. are ready to roll
Leya:when it is Monday, Thursday. Today is Monday, Thursday, which is the day that Jesus had the
Reverend Ben Cooper:Last Supper. Don't Monday, first day or Come on. So listen, you did. So yeah. So it's a powerful day. Yeah. really powerful day. Last Supper went out.
Leya:Bash last time you spent with his brothers. And then Mary's, Judas.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Judas, who? Why?
Leya:Not Judas very much. I feel for Judas. I feel for Judas. Yeah, very sad.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Two pieces of silver. Like a government to me. He had anything for Jesus. Well, it was Yeah.
Leya:But today, changing the subject change the subject because this is a fun podcast. Although it is what is that time of year when it's like, oh, it's laced with pain. And then celebration, and it
Reverend Ben Cooper:certainly is. On the third day. We love the third day. Yeah, but this
Leya:is good. The first two are pretty. So today, tonight and everybody's mode. I want to talk about what I don't got told me. I know you say God told me don't say that all the time. Don't say that to me. But you say that listen to people that say God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There are certain people in certain cultures and certain churches that say God said this God said that all day long.
Leya:God didn't. What happens with me is sometimes just an idea will hit me and I'll go Yeah, I that's a good idea that's got to come from God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He drops things in a car. So it just drops the little seed. He drops a seed or we might read something we feel Oh, hang on that fits in. Yeah, God speaking to me.
Leya:It's more than coincidence.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And what's up would exist.
Leya:Yeah does because it's in a dictionary Roget's thesaurus and the dictionary
Reverend Ben Cooper:word for Monday
Leya:Saurus. Thursday
Reverend Ben Cooper:we are looking at the word miracle,
Leya:we are looking at the word miracles. Because Yeah, so God just dropped into my, my vocabulary the other day when I was thinking, what should we do the podcast about what we do the podcast about what can we do? Because recently, we've been leaving it to the last minute to see what happens.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Just getting a little prompt. And to be completely open is really, really important. Because the problem we got in the church is man bring his own agenda and program. And sometimes it's just nice just to chat and even the day
Leya:not overthink things. I think that's the key in everything. A lot of the time I tried now, now I do. I try not to overthink things and to let God drop it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And just let him guide the conversation and let him just take charge and just hand it all over to him and that there's another area we've got to be careful that we don't become a bit slapdash. Oh, gotta give me some Oh, yeah. So it's, it's a fine
Leya:line between faith
Reverend Ben Cooper:and being lazy. But also knowing that it's God that's putting it in your way and not somebody else wrote in this. Yeah. And I think we're living in really powerful spiritual times where God is certainly driving. You know, a lot of the conversations, a lot of things that are happening, God is really moving. We're in times of miracles.
Leya:That's it. And that's why I like that segue, Ralph. That was awesome. That was awesome. Because we are going to be talking about miracles. Today, everybody,
Reverend Ben Cooper:we're talking about miracle,
Leya:miracles, miracles. So yet, something I think that a lot of Christians think about Jesus is they think about Jesus walking on the water. They think about Jesus with the loaves and the fishes. They think about Jesus with a wine and healing people. And it's something that we've never, we've never talked about. And, and to some extent, I believe that the love that Jesus has for us and God has for us, that's the number one awesome miracle. The creation miracle. That's a miracle. That's what I want to know.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What is what can we what is
Leya:a miracle miracle? What is a miracle? You're the You're the one with the You're the one with the hotline to the big g? Well, you stand at the front of the church,
Reverend Ben Cooper:just because
Leya:I didn't mean that what I mean is you're the one that knows the Bible better than me is a miracle.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So some that word. Yeah. I would literally say a miracle is a supernatural encounter that humanity cannot bring into being.
Leya:Yeah, it's not that
Reverend Ben Cooper:Do you know, that's how I would bring something into f&e explains love, just a supernatural move that cannot be bought, cannot be performed by any human being. And it's not a magic trick. And it's not a magic trick. But also, we've had a lot of counterfeit miracles happening here in
Leya:America. So we will talk about that. It's a miracle. It's a miracle. That's $50
Reverend Ben Cooper:to grow your leg,
Leya:like a lamb,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Passover, come
Leya:on, we're not talking about food. That's one thing as well. For me, something that turned me off Christian airlock was a surah. Now I'm going to mention somebody mentioned. Okay, so there's a really famous sketch by Billy Connolly, where he talks about his great, he's, he's an intelligent, great man. And he talks about American religion. Yeah, yeah. But he in the sketch, like 1980s, he talks about American religion, and he talks about that you walk out there, and every single street corner, there's somebody banging somebody on their head and going in some miracle you call a miracle. It's a miracle for everything. It's a miracle, you get a job. It's a miracle. You watch TV, it's a miracle, you cross the road. And I think that's something that people think about Jesus and Christianity, that we're all like that we're all like that. And I want to put the light, I want to draw the line when I draw the line down the middle and say, we're not all Sorry, I'm banging the table. We're not all like that. We're not all people that think that every single thing that happens in our lives is a miracle. And we're not. We are not in this church. I know for a fact that we don't ask for money for miracles, which some people do. So we're gonna investigate what is a miracle? What's the miracles purpose, and how can you tell what is not a miracle? And why do people say that they can perform miracles when they can't
Reverend Ben Cooper:write to me as a believer? wished we just said it. A miracle is a move of God. can only be only come into being by a supernatural God. But there are ministries out there that are the name it and the climate is really interesting as well, where we've hit this pandemic that before the pandemic, there was so much naming and claiming God's healing your cancer come here. Disease, you know back pain God is telling me, there's someone in the church that's got this got that and we've heard so much of this false teaching going on. And ministries were built on healing, healing, healing, healing. COVID, not COVID-19 comes in, and the churches that are and we're proclaiming that God has healed your cancer, God has healed your heart disease, your your eye, your leg, your air, everything is happening, even legs were was said to be growing arms were growing this all all these all this stuff, new lungs were appearing, you know, gold teeth, and all this crazy bizarre stuff was happening before COVID-19. And then suddenly COVID-19 comes and blows across the universe. And all these churches that have been named in it and climate
Leya:have shot all the supposed miracles have stopped. So it's like God's turn the tap off? Yes. What annoys me about those just hold your phone for a second is that it's not people saying that God is going to heal them. It's saying that God will heal them through them. Yes, God will use me and I will heal you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, like that is so there's healing schools at all. There was healing schools out there. Yeah, you can pay a set fee and by the end of the 12, week 20 week 24 month course you will be able to heal people you pay is so bizarre. So when you look at Christ when you look at them, he walked by more people than he left in their ailments than he did heal them. Yeah. So when you look at Christ, he was not going around here healing everyone. Exactly. every street corner wasn't doing
Leya:the Billy Connolly thing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, he wasn't doing that. Yeah. And that is interesting as well that that even Solomon's colonnade the amount of people that that didn't get held at wasn't held that was sick that was had leprosy he must have come in front of so many people and leprosy that he taking virus out. Yeah. So and he's got to choose but then we've got these ministries and these preachers shouting and hollering that cancer is gone. Heart disease has gone brain tumors are gone even some of these places are saying people have this is a bit vile spat the cancer out and things like that. And the tumors on the floor. Gold Dust is falling from the ceiling. Yeah, absolutely. It's all bizarre.
Leya:It's all strange sorcery techniques. And that's what makes people miss trust the church. Sorry, Miss cross, Miss trust Jesus, and belief in Jesus and faith. And so many people hate religions that not religions, because it sounds it sounds.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's cruel. It's cruel,
Leya:is vile.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So before lockdown. Why was it that all this was happening right up to lockdown. Then suddenly, there's a Don't get me wrong. A virus? Yeah, yeah. I shot everything. There's no more healings. Yeah.
Leya:Because we should be able to if the healing powers through God
Reverend Ben Cooper:are so strong, and they're healing cancers. COVID Why can't COVID be? So?
Leya:I tell you why. Because it's rubbish. Exactly. It's so strange in terms of fooling people.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's fake. Which is dangerous. Yeah. So when a crisis
Leya:when they have like a piece of butchers may in their hand, and they wipe it across someone's stomach and say, I've just removed the cancer. And there it is, and it's like a little bit of awful or something like that. I've seen it in films. I've seen it in documentaries. And it's, it's such a horrible thing. That Jesus didn't do that. No. So why did Jesus do the miracles? What What word is His miracles plays? But for somebody coming in, or someone coming in, there's a lady. There's the lady with the bleeding.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, you've got Jesus raises the widow sound from the dead. In Luke seven. Is that Lazarus? No, no bit. No, no, no. Then you've got the Jesus hills, the Cintiq cinterion. servant, Matthew eight, five and the daughter, the leper? Yeah, the leper, Mark, Capital One. Jesus kid, Peter's mother in law, have a fever. That's an interesting one actually fever.
Leya:But what are all these things? These are all things to do with health. You Yeah with prosperity,
Reverend Ben Cooper:nothing to do nothing to do with money and but then also Christ does miraculous move on an unclean spirit. You know, Jesus cast out an unclean spirit as Mary Magdalene as well. Well, this one this one is in Let me read this scripture we got Mark chapter one, verses 23 to 28. Jesus then, say, a man in a synagogue and he was possessed by an impure spirit, cried out, what do you want to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us, and it goes on, and Jesus deals with the, with the unclean spirit, the pure spirit of comes out of this violent man. And he's shrieking and hollering and all that sort of stuff. So what we find with Jesus in His miracles, they are not about money. They are not about prosperity. They're about health care about. I don't like using the word that buzz word will be in about people that are, you know, on children on on parents, but there's not an array of miracles that you would think, by the way, the church talks about what they are doing.
Leya:Yeah. We, the thing is, Jesus could have hovered up in the sky, and it's been floating around in a circle and come back down.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It could have, it could have held, it just is just the shadow, just his presence. But that's what strikes me that Christ would walk around. And yes, he healed people, but he wasn't jumping up and down and loading it everywhere. And just
Leya:he wasn't doing jumping through hoops like a
Reverend Ben Cooper:duck. He wasn't doing that sort of staffing. It's actually quite confusing to me. Sometimes. The more I think about a subject like this, that the miracles are Christ, the great things that Christ on the miracles don't even like to use the word phenomenon from what he was saying.
Leya:He can't say that I'm using this phenomenon.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What I'm to me, Taif better, better, phenomenal. Phenomenal that it did it. fantastic things.
Leya:So why did he do it? Why did he do it? This is what I've got to say this. I've got to say this, because I really like it. JOHN 448. I'm reading from the air ESV. Unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe
Reverend Ben Cooper:unless you say
Leya:Yeah, exactly. So you've got some dude going around saying I'm the son of God, I'm the son of God, I'm the son of God. And you've got people. He didn't go up and give miracles to the disciples. He just said, drop your nets and follow me. And they did. They did. But there's other people that need to see things so that they believe that this person is the Son of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Or what about the miracle with the food, the loaves and the fish?
Leya:The one that Mary said poor and poor.
Reverend Ben Cooper:on what you can do at Pizza, go on your small pizza in Jesus cake today. Take today,
Leya:get some more cake. Get some more lemon drizzle cake because we ate it all.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So the miracle fish and the loaves when you think about that? really powerful. Really interesting.
Leya:Go, Ted.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He just got people
Leya:handing it out had enough.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. 12 baskets. He filled the baskets up, and the baskets come back. And there was plenty. It wasn't this no showmanship show and dance in a band getting him ready.
Leya:No Debbie muggings. No Debbie McGee involved? Can you imagine it was it's the
Reverend Ben Cooper:opposite to what we say. It's graceful, isn't it? It's quiet. It's done, biblically, and reverently, and in holiness, and purity, with the perfect heart condition. But when in people's needs, but it's just gone bizarre over the last generations of this feel.
Leya:this weird thing I find is that in there is a certain kind of church, where if you perform three miracles in your lifetime, you become a saint.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, yeah, three miracles.
Leya:I've only got two and a half. Can't do it. What are your miracles? I turned on a light, I made a nice cake. I know that those aren't the miracles and I don't want to offend anybody. But I do find it strange that there's not in Scripture at all. That you perform through miracles and you become a saint. In revelations at all, that all these people standing behind God's throne were going three, I've got three. None of them had scorecards. Not one of them had a scorecard. That said three now. Not One of them and yet there they were.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So yeah, got that gives the gift God that gives the gift of healing. God gives the gifts. You can't buy the gift, you can't buy healing, you can't go to a school. Talking about school and ministry, you can't go anywhere like that and get a gift given by a man it has to come from, from God is
Leya:and it has to be given and not demanded, because obviously given we have that bit, we have that bit we have that bit. Where the devil what bit what the bit, the bit, the bit, the bit where devil says in Matthew Four, Three ESV tempter came and said to him, if you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread. So we know that the devil is a the devil satan lucifer, his accuser, his accuser, but is also an impersonator.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And a very good one.
Leya:Yeah. So he's trying to impersonate Yeah. And demand, do this for me. Do this. You don't know. You know that you did the bread and the loaves there? Yeah, it's bread and fish there.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Do it for me,
Leya:do it for me. Now, do it for me. Do it for me. Why
Reverend Ben Cooper:do I?
Leya:Why? Why? Why would Jesus need to prove that he is the Son of God to somebody else that was made by God, and knows that he was made by God because he was in the garden? Exactly. Oh, the thing is, Matthew 2424. ESV. says, For false Christs, I think has anyone Christ, thank you very much, but for false Christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders so as to lead astray if possible, even the elect Hello. That's the world that we live in. Yeah, the communists sure this one is by the activity of Satan. This is two Thessalonians, two, nine, the comment of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan, with all power and force signs and wonders. Wow. Yeah. So that is what we're talking about with the name and claiming it. That's what we're talking about with the It's a miracle thing. And that's what we're talking about in terms of
Reverend Ben Cooper:social phenomenon.
Leya:It's interesting that they named the elect that the
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's interesting that that I'm the elect there can't be explained by human laws. And by nature and by science. Yeah. It is an outright miracle. It's a miracle. It's a miracle.
Leya:Yeah, but what is that? I'm gonna go for it again. Luke 1827. Say, what is impossible with men is possible with God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. Yeah.
Leya:So all these people that are claiming that God is working through them to heal people, and I'll give you that new car and prosperity testimonies from those people saying, you know, Jackie, from Dallas, she sent me 100 pounds, and within a week she had 1000. Can I say, Sorry, that was terrible American accent.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We are doing most horrific American accents. I
Leya:actually do really good accents as well. Kenya. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Bad. I know it was. Cake is back in your throat.
Leya:And I know, sorry. apologize to you in America.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So sorry. We're so sorry. We're trying. Okay.
Leya:You know that Jackie? That? No, that was bad as well. No,
Reverend Ben Cooper:no, no, I'm not doing I'll tell you what, I will not let one.
Leya:Okay. So people are saying you know that Jackie, at Jackie, last week, she sent me in 100 pounds. And within a week, she had got it back tenfold 1000 pounds and claiming that that's a miracle.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's right. And that mirror prosperity gospel. Yeah. The more you study the Word of God and you look at the miracles, a miracle is a simple act, where the laws of nature, the laws of gravity, the laws of science, the laws of this world, cannot bring what has just been brought into being a man cannot bring that into being. Yes, God uses humanity to get his work done, but his for his will. And his perfect plan. Perfect, simple.
Leya:Do you think? This is a random bit of a left field question. But you think that we are a miracle in that God created us from nothing. You got to be in any creative everything.
Reverend Ben Cooper:unsane we all have quote in the body is a miracle. I see that life as a miracle. It's, it's, it's always expand and it's I don't know, use a word evolving because that's a word that should be rubbed out of the dictionary. The world is always moving and changing because that's what the scripture says, you know. So I really believe that we are miracles. The body is a miracle. The body is phenomenal.
Leya:Write in is that for people maybe that
Reverend Ben Cooper:feeling like a heartbeat is
Leya:a miracle I have people have had enough of this lockdown and they're feeling really down in themselves at the moment and we're all feeling tired and we're all feeling tired and drained and like we've been pushed to the very edge the very edge of what we can cope with the mind
Reverend Ben Cooper:differently stretched beyond belief.
Leya:Yeah, and people thinking maybe they can't cope maybe this is this is it they've had enough but you are a miracle.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, you call a miracle we can't actually be explained by science it can only get so much about the human body and the human genome and all the all that great stuff that they put out but he doesn't know everything he doesn't know what that look what they're doing with the Hadron Collider trying to find the Big Bang that the gift of life all that money trying to find the gift of life all that money all that science all that technology all that knowledge trying to find that area all come into being well let me tell you God said let there be and there was was
Leya:oh sorry, I would have thought you wanted me to say it then sorry that I take your thunder again
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's all good so groovy so groovy
Leya:lovely thing to think that yeah go your God knows every star in the sky and he knows every hair on your head I know I say that one a lot. But it makes me makes me
Reverend Ben Cooper:feel good because it makes you feel join and with God because He knows everything about us. We are miracles Yeah, we are we are spoken miracles this this land this world that we live in is a phenomenal place. It is beautiful world we live in beautiful look at nature. Yeah. Look, it's a miracle the Pecos man hasn't created it so it has to be a miracle isn't it because it's come out of god it's not come out of man was man created what as man actually creates money well
Leya:computers didn't know. Yeah, roads, roads here but God that God created everything. tarmac is one of the things that I've realized as well.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What that is man created this
Leya:for I don't know, the car that I used to take a picture of the beautiful nature that
Reverend Ben Cooper:so we're really concise technology. Yeah.
Leya:But even God create that but even go create it that will tell you what God has great. Sorry, man. As Craig God created this beautiful world. And man has created this twist in nature that we've got of China, Sally it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, yeah, definitely. No.
Leya:And I don't understand it. It's like we were talking earlier about that. You said you had a podcast with Sandra and you couldn't believe the things that men do to each other? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about there. You know that
Reverend Ben Cooper:human against
Leya:accusatory nature, if that's a word file, or just made up? I don't know. But yeah, the word war. Terrible weapons. weapons of war.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that's what my
Leya:money that is. spent on that. Tanks. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:aircraft.
Leya:Yeah. When we could be living in the miracle of love, the miracle of love American love, which I truly believe in,
Reverend Ben Cooper:is quite a difficult subject to grasp, isn't it? What? A miracle? Yeah. Because we really start thinking about it. Because it's been so abused. Yeah, that word by certain areas, as well, it's like, it's made it almost. It can make a believer feel that if I don't perform a miracle, I ain't saved. I'm not a real believer.
Leya:That's what I'm talking about
Reverend Ben Cooper:in terms of the frame marriage, hands on my family or friend and they don't get healed. There's some Yeah, but why are they all getting healed down the road? They're all in that church.
Leya:They're 50 quid.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because that's how it feels. Sometimes there's merit. Yeah, someone's someone's got out of a wheelchair. someone's doing this, someone's doing that. But is it really true? That is,
Leya:it's like what we were saying last week when we're talking about prayer, which is a podcast that I recommend you listen to people at home,
Reverend Ben Cooper:say when depression is 50 pound in and what
Leya:is that people prefer prayer exactly as I'm saying. prayers to come true. And if their prayers don't get answered, then they believe that they're not worthy. And it's the same with miracles if you aren't having a miracle, granted, you're not worthy. But that's not what Jesus thought because we've already discussed today the fact that Jesus walked past countless countless people who were all as worthy as each other. Yeah, but for a reason.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Why did he choose the one
Leya:he chose? I can't fathom that. That why
Reverend Ben Cooper:that person and bypass that person?
Leya:Yeah, exactly. Why
Reverend Ben Cooper:You know, if the church was well, there'd be there'd be all like they'd be pulling the guns out the hips weren't they like the cowboy? hills? A Hill, you know. And I mean, you could just see it around Solomon's colonnade. You can see preachers and teachers running around their flip doing backflips and cartwheels.
Leya:crucifixes, you're healed, you're healed.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I mean, you can see it Konya, you could see a typical churchy ministry, working
Leya:miracles and prayers being answered. And that's not what it's about. It's about you are a miracle already. You are a miracle already. This universe is just we live in is a miracle
Reverend Ben Cooper:blendable supernatural phenomenon that has happened by the power of God speaking, that goes against the laws of science, the laws of mathematics, the laws of nature, all the laws that man tries to understand it goes against everything,
Leya:it goes against all those things that we have about material gains, as well. That's what I think is really important as well, because people think that miracles are like, the person that won a million pounds on the lottery ticket and then won 38 million pounds. That's not that's not a miracle. And what a coincidence,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's not a
Leya:that's a coincidence.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And then what about the person that had been faithful to the Word of God, we've been praying all their life, and as been wheelchair bound, or as got something against them that is causing them issues. And it's not going, and it's not going, and it's not going and it's not going. And they're praying, and they're praying, and they're praying. But on the other side of the road, they're praying and legs are growing, arms are growing, you know, crutches are being thrown away. Because you said, it isn't true. Yeah. And for those that don't receive that healing, will actually they do receive a healing because the first start of a healing is from within someone's heart. Yeah, healed from inside, you're healed from your pain, your your, you're set free. So that is a miracle.
Leya:In the Bible, that Jesus healed the lady that was very, very poorly, not by actually healing, what was making poorly, but by healing our heart, so that her understanding of life, she was so bitter,
Reverend Ben Cooper:she was so bitter, bitter and angry. So it's, so that's where it starts on the inside. But we are in a church culture that has to see evidence, I've got to see a lead grow. I've got to see a new pop up. I've got to see new fingers grow, I can see arms grow. I've got to have that evidence. And then we've got
Leya:interest in that in Exodus when Moses was performing, not performing miracles, but God was performing miracles for him with his staff, etc. They tried to disprove the miracles I did. Now we're trying to constantly say that everything is a miracle. And then they were trying to say that everything was not a miracle. Yes. Why was the lesson there?
Reverend Ben Cooper:And got close mouse's
Leya:Hang on a minute.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I got his number. But it's just it can just like melt my brain The more I think about it, the more I tried to understand. Why did Jesus walk by so many people? And why did you decide to stop at a person now at the Titan the lady with the issue of blood, if she didn't run to him and fight her way through? She wouldn't have got that healing. Yeah, because he was off on a different agenda. So is an interesting area of healing there that she was pushing and I'm I'm gonna get to Jesus, I'm gonna get to I'm gonna find gonna get every I'm going to get through. But then we got to be careful of is that if I take that look, and I push and push and push, and I get into Jesus, it doesn't mean to say that I'm gonna get a healing. Yeah, because the New Testament writer writes, the greatest writer I believe on planet earth said three times I pleaded with the Lord, to remove this from me. But Jesus, God said, My grace is sufficient for you. So above Heylin, His grace and mercy and His favor and his goodness, but the church measures a person's fruit or their walk with God by the blessings, the blessings and their, their healings and if I don't get he he'll I'm a sinner if I don't get healed, I'm not really walking with Jesus, which is completely against the Word of God.
Leya:Amen, brother.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Someone might go through their whole life. wheelchair bound, someone might go for their whole life. completely paralyzed. Yeah. But God loves them.
Leya:But they might be thinking because they're not going to the prosperity church over the road where they believe it's all
Reverend Ben Cooper:gotten them. Why are they healing them? But not me? Yeah,
Leya:exactly. I don't want anyone to think that they've been forgotten.
Reverend Ben Cooper:About um, yeah, it's important to say that important subject that, that that what we hear and see, because COVID as proof such a point in charlatans that if all what was happening, that was biblically true and lining up. Why did suddenly the healing centers shot?
Leya:Exactly, exactly why there's nothing else you can say exactly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Why did those that were performing the miracles lock themselves away? If you really believe in what you believe in, you'd be out there still doing the same thing?
Leya:Oh, you'd be healing the COVID.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, you're that you would be but
Leya:there wouldn't be a pandemic,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it'd be a tailor. Exactly. And it's not taking anything from God whatsoever. What it's doing is proving that that church is fake.
Leya:that the problem is that, from my
Reverend Ben Cooper:notoriety, is about, look at me, it's past that it's the apostles. It's, but also we need to look at that as well, that it does happen, but it happens on the side of Lucifer. Yeah. Because sorcery and witchcraft,
Leya:the loudest people. And they're the people that the rest of the world judges Christianity by. Yeah, yeah. And I find that really offensive. Because on the world loss, yeah, the world laughs the world loss truth. And I think that it's cruel.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah,
Leya:I think that Christianity is cool. And I think that Christianity is just out for something. And I've heard it said to me, yeah, oh, they want you for this. They want you for that. And I think what if you actually know, the the road, the path that I'm walking in? And if you know, the path that Jesus walked, and if you did a little bit of research into it, rather than going by what do you think you know, then you'd know that there is nothing Christian about those churches, those specific churches which asked for money for gain.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's the thing. It's all it's all. It's money orientated. It's driven by finances. Yeah. It's a it's a business agenda. Yeah. It's about box ticking. And
Leya:it's not about the quiet grace.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's not It's not
Leya:about Jesus of living for Jesus, which is all about living with love in your heart. I know I mentioned love a lot. But to me that is the someone put up the most beautiful thing today on one of our sisters. Yeah, I'm going to find it because I was like that, is it? What you said there? Is it? Hold on, wait a minute. Doo, doo doo doo doo.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's like, it's a subject that really makes you think miracles, the miracles of jesus 35 miracles of jesus
Leya:3535 miracles,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's 33.
Leya:So it's almost one a year. There you go. And then also, it does say in the Bible, that there are countless miracles that they don't write about in the Bible.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. If it says, you know, paraphrasing, if every account and everything was accounted for, there would not be enough books on the earth. To be able to account of what Christ has done. There is just not for the Bible is just a snippet.
Leya:Let's not forget the greatest miracle as well. Taking our sin. Taking our sin.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, gosh, yes. claim. Yeah, it's a subject that really makes you think and
Leya:that just made me go cold and did yeah, that just made me go cold. That that that is the greatest miracle, isn't it? What?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Cause someone, the miracle of someone crossing over from hell to heaven. I can't be a miracle in it. Crossing over from you've got a class that as it has, I
Leya:don't know. I don't know that I've read enough in about anybody crossing over from heaven to hell to heaven. That's why I'm looking at your life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, sorry. Now what I mean is when someone is a sinner, ah, when someone when someone fallen, you know, that has got to be the most likely assign the sake of yourself. Someone salvation has got to be the greatest. To change someone's thinking to change someone's understanding to change someone's culture. To change someone completely, from one degree to another degree, just within a word, their whole thinking changed their mindset certainly
Leya:feels like it doesn't it? Doesn't feel like it. Yeah, that is that's why they call it being reborn, I suppose. Because you're suddenly, like you were saying before you're conscious, you're suddenly awake and you're suddenly conscious, and you're suddenly aware
Reverend Ben Cooper:that, there, something's happened to me.
Leya:I'm not, it's not all about me. It's about this other beautiful world that I live in this plan, and living in a wonderfully Quiet, quiet and graceful way.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm finding it hard when you think that's before someone is saved before someone is saved, that they live in their life. They're doing whatever they're doing all that sort of stuff. And then suddenly, they're changed within a blink of what the
Leya:people before nasty Hold on. can be a kind and loving, kosher nice, gentle person,
Reverend Ben Cooper:of course that post that, but Okay, let's let's pick someone from the Bible, then let's pick soul.
Leya:So So why do you persecute me?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Right, that little chap on exalts before he see the light? Yeah, he was going out getting all sorts of it was up to all sorts of things. No, no, a But suddenly, that's there was a some moment in his life, when he encountered the living God. Bang, when that horse, you know, that fall, that that whole scenario, when he hit the deck, he was changed. Yeah. So he's thinking he was going out to get Christians. His his attitude, his thinking, his understanding his upbringing, everything up to that place on that road on that house. When he fell to that floor. He was so what when he got up, even his name changed. So So why do you persecute me his name became Paul. So he, no intervention of man or science, no touch of humanity. But when God touches you
Leya:are blind, and then you can say, Come on. And I love that one. That is a great lesson as a great another great story because it's not story. But he was a he was a slave owner. He was he was trading in slaves. The person that wrote that song, he was a bad bad man. He was a bad man. And then he prayed to God to save him. Because he was in a terrible storm at the time. He prayed to God to save him and said, I will dedicate my life to you. And he did and and he wrote this song afterwards. About now it's free. Now we can see that's how it feels. That's how it feels. It just it just absolutely just crushes my thinking. My thinking stop sometime, believe it or not. Yeah, my lips freeze up,
Reverend Ben Cooper:even though I'll come babble. Now you don't babble neither. Wobble. ramble. ramble. You know, I mean, sometimes it's some things really some subject some areas of biblical greatness make you think. And actually, the cogs stop moving.
Leya:I think. You come into five,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's when you go into I actually can't work this out the miracle
Leya:of okay. I think about this, so I'm
Reverend Ben Cooper:gonna have to believe in it. I can't tell you any more. Yeah, I don't know how it happens. I can't even bring it into a word. I can't even talk about it much more because I'm limited by my vocabulary. Yet my understanding yet, because it's supernatural.
Leya:And I'm just a little human being trying to fathom what a god
Reverend Ben Cooper:is why the God, even when, like he said, Let there be light. And there was, yeah, the science, the the years, the finances that have been trying to fathom and trying to work out. Whether you look at it The Big Bang Theory, or whether you're looking at it from the creationists side. How did this come into being? So I believe we'll go Well, God just said, This isn't done. But even when you think about that, he brains going on. He can't say certain things, certain areas of biblical truths that you are limited to what you can cope with. Because it's too big. But you've got so many people out there thinking and and trying to bring an answer to everything because they're too frightened to go iron got glow mango clay,
Leya:I got the answer I can give you is let's just try and live like Jesus. Let's just try and
Reverend Ben Cooper:work it out. And
Leya:that isn't that us echoing the miracle us Trying to live like healing in a Jesus way us trying to be kind to each other and our strona let God take the rain and and ask God trying to what would Jesus do love each other? As I've loved you. I think that an hour ago, as I say on are banging on about love all the time, but I do think that that last commandment is the commandment for the way that I love your kebab. I love maka, Bab as maka barbers Love me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Love your neighbor.
Leya:That's almost blasphemous. I'll say sorry. But do I believe that that you know that's the echo of less the echo of the miracle
Reverend Ben Cooper:this Christianity of Christianity Lark is Christianity stuff I've actually started to be very careful I use that word Christianity because there's so many people using it that they're not Christians and that it can be so we've got a really understand what it means Christian a Christian means to that Christ in me. That's the basic idea of Christ.
Leya:Those things out I love it, actually it right out getting out the shopping trolley car posh, colder than that
Reverend Ben Cooper:Christ in me. But that word has been used very flippantly. I, I even
Leya:until I became a Christian.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, but there are people in the world of religion and church that are using it. Now don't get me wrong. My life's around kolcraft would
Leya:never get you wrong. Well, you know, I
Reverend Ben Cooper:mean, so. So if someone says to you, what do you did a weekend or went to church? or What does that mean? I've had to think about how I, I bring that over now. I believe in Jesus Christ.
Leya:Yes, and amen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Even Jesus Christ, I am a believer of the God of Israel. Yes, created the heavens and the earth, and sent his one and only Son, I am a believer in Jesus. Yeah. Then you got to be careful of what Jesus said, there'll be many Messiah is coming in my name. So you've really got to be clear in what you believe in to take him on monkeys, and there'll be many messiahs coming in my name. So they so when you so when you look at language today, language has changed so much, isn't it? You know,
Leya:so what would be what would you recommend that we say then, if we don't call ourselves? If we don't talk about Christianity,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm happy to tell you that my Christian because you know what the word means and you get an understanding, but someone outside of that would look at an account that we know is an account. Yeah,
Leya:they don't think that we're part of a cult, a cult, a cult, not cold, not cold. But a conquered salt.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think we're a part of a cult,
Leya:I do think we're part of a cult.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that so that because that the church is
Leya:different. So that's why I was trying to choose my words, per se, but it's more simply earlier, because I think there's a difference between the church religion and Christianity. Sorry, I'm banging the table. Five. So I think Christianity is I follow Christ. Yeah. The church and religion. They're in the same bracket. For me. Religion is something that was written by man, and the church is something that is run by man. And I and I don't mean the churches in Paul, Paul's name, right? And
Reverend Ben Cooper:when he says, Yeah, when you say some,
Leya:yeah, for me, it that personally, I do say I've done to church. I do say, I'm going to church. But I don't say I'm going to the church. I'm going to church, what you're doing this weekend, I'm going to church.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But when we use a word, I'm going to church. We had a miracle. Soon as you say that American church takeout or hang on a minute? Yes. Because we labeled with that same word. Because they think magic tricks, magic tricks that Paul Daniels is coming miracles are happening every second and you're not I mean, it's like a conveyor belt of
Leya:I think if I ever saw a miracle, it would it knock me off my feet. And I think I was shaking in a darkened room for about a week.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that is fact that is true. That is absolutely true. But the church, the miracle, healing preachers and teachers, I say all day long doing it all day long.
Leya:Oh, and they say the statues of the Virgin Mary crying, and I'm not
Reverend Ben Cooper:what what? So you're trying to get I don't even like use the word balance. You're trying to get an understanding. For me even coming under this label of church and everything we're in. So when I hear and see all that I've even got to myself, maybe I've got something wrong. And I so what do I do
Leya:in the Bible? Does it talk about statues the Virgin Mary crying? Nowhere does it talk about That it talks about healing. And it talks about supplying things for people's needs. Not about statues, inanimate objects moving on right and so I've got my hands in the air I'd say it
Reverend Ben Cooper:I hate to say it praise the Lord that this what's really important is what to Peter says is that it's sound doctrine. So that the the checkpoint Tell me what is it the checkpoint? The checkpoint? In to Peter chapter two? Is the sound checkpoint is is it lining up with the Word of God? Does it line up is Is it right to the full stop to the exclamation mark? Does it line up with the Word of God? Is it sound? Or is it off the wall?
Leya:But then we don't know God's plans. So how can we know if we do Word of God? I mean, we do because we've got the word we don't word we got the
Reverend Ben Cooper:way to sound doctrine would would come in an area light is it is is what we are seeing. bizarre and weird. Because also when you're a believer, you pick things up in your being. Yeah, this doesn't sit well with me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because the Holy Spirit brings you under a form of truth.
Leya:It's like a consciousness, isn't it? It's like a
Reverend Ben Cooper:cup of coffee. use that word conscious now.
Leya:I don't mean it in a
Reverend Ben Cooper:meditative What do you mean? by feeling feeling? feeling in your skin? You're
Leya:not your conscience?
Reverend Ben Cooper:You know that? You know? Yeah. Yeah. So you sound doctrine. So the only way you can test that because the Bible says test every spirit. So by testing every spirit, you have to come back to the Word of God.
Leya:Do you mean mocha Gen. Whiskey?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about. What was he talking about that in the community read that in the community? And do some days? No, we don't. We don't. gin drink last year. For sure. Everything has to line up with the Bible. Yeah, everything after like the Bible, okay? Everything has to line up.
Leya:In terms of capital, we everything, mate, if the line up with everything as to line up the Bible. So if I'm going to a church and all I'm hearing is miracle miracle, miracle miracle,
Reverend Ben Cooper:why is Jesus healing there? The church on a corner? Nothing's happening. Why would he chose one place over another? Why would he take an area of a couple of square miles and you've got 20 churches? Why is Jesus decided to heal in just that denomination? in that church,
Leya:I need to ask about is the disciples though because there were disciples that could heal when they're
Reverend Ben Cooper:being given by the gift
Leya:was up and walk?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, but it was given.
Leya:But so do these people in these prosperity, places do they say I am a disciple, I am a chosen disciple of God. And therefore this is what they say to people to come them. And I am a church chosen disciple of God, and therefore God has bestowed these powers upon me to heal you
Reverend Ben Cooper:know, they can't they don't line up with Scripture, because God is the giver. God is the giver. And he will decide it, even if you look at the disciples, how many did they heal, and who will they heal in and what was going on? They wasn't everywhere, healing everyone at every particular point, when he when he turned up, and he held that the one that was sitting on the mat, silver and gold I do not have but in the name of Jesus rise. Very images in the name of Jesus. So it's the power of Jesus, the power of Jesus. And then we've got Simon the sorcerer, as he said to the set to the two disciples, He said, How much will it cost me to have that? I said, My your money perish with you cannot buy a gift of God. By healing, you can't buy miracles. It is up to Christ. It is up to God, it is up to the Holy Spirit who will receive healing. And if I don't get healed, it's his purpose. If I get healed, it says purpose. Yeah, whatever happens to me, is God's plan for me.
Leya:It's, I know I'm gonna play I'm gonna play the the whispering voice that other people will say, and that's, well, it's very easy for us to say that because we're,
Reverend Ben Cooper:we're healthy. Okay, I know we're looking on the healing one, but also then you can look at finances as well. Because it does, you know, miracles just are not held to the body are they? Miracles fall in other ways.
Leya:But I mentioned miracles in terms of money because I don't
Reverend Ben Cooper:have money. I'm talking about getting free. I'm not talking about. I'm not talking about Lord. I'm praying for 100 quid. No, that's what I was thinking. Talking about. But your daily life the way you're blessed. Yeah, the way doors open. The way opportunities come around. When you look at miracles, they was that it was either through food, or it was through healing. Yeah, Christ stopped the storm. That was a miracle. walk on water. So there are
Leya:to prove to prove you've got a faith in me. When you see me walking on water, you have faith in me. As soon as you can't say me. Five stops five
Reverend Ben Cooper:stops. So when you talk about you can't money you can't pray and ask for money and money is gonna fall out the sky cuz that is not that that's impossible. Yeah. God hills for God's hills, your heart. And I'm referring to pains and anxieties. Yeah, that's healing. He heals your mind for anxiousness, worries and doubts. He heals you for ailments, he does miracles for food and providing an opening doors.
Leya:I think God does use us then in ways to perform small miracles. Because sometimes I'll be having, oh, just the most awful day, and then somebody will say one thing, and it will lift me up.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Absolutely. Lift me out and encourage anyone
Leya:completely irrelevant to them. Yeah. But it will drop something in my spirit that lets me know. Okay, that's it. I'm not alone. You know? Because you're with me. And then, and that, in itself is a daily miracle. Yeah. But what I want to what I was getting at was that other people that are outside of the Christian club, they're not fully signed up members, and they haven't got their club card. They might be looking at us sitting having this conversation, I think, well, this is really easy for you to say that. If you're, if you're somebody that is suffering with so many ailments, and God doesn't cure you. That's because it's not his plan. It's not. I can see people saying, Oh, really easy if you'd say that. Yeah, I've heard people say things. Oh, yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've heard it. Yeah. I've experienced it. Yeah. Yeah. But a God works in mysterious ways. We don't understand. Yeah, I've been blessed with health, you've been blessed with health. You know, it's it's such a difficult subject, it's miracles is a difficult subject. Because what we see is a name it and claim it is been abused. When it's not of God, it's happening too much, too often too easy. Clicking your fingers and someone's got no leg.
Leya:And it's that thing, going back to what we were saying earlier about the lady in the Bible, that was bitter and twisted. He didn't cure her ailments. He cured.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The internal me, it's me, it's inside me. When you know, it's such a massive subject, and I just feel like, I haven't even scratched the lid and even trying to work it out. When you think about what is a miracle?
Leya:Yeah, what?
Reverend Ben Cooper:How can we express that in word and language? How can we? How can we explain it? How can we bring it into? How can we go? That's exactly what it is. It's a miracle that that but yeah, like everything I see so
Leya:many people think it's just illusion ties to illusionists
Reverend Ben Cooper:or something the way your hands work the way your eyes are the way your body works. It's a phenomenon. Wow, what
Leya:a machine miracle, isn't
Reverend Ben Cooper:it? Yeah, I think it just things are happening. Life is is I say life is a miracle. Yeah. Creation is a miracle. In a so powerful. It's beyond human understanding. It's beyond the grasp of man. It's beyond technology. It's beyond science. It's beyond money. It's it's beyond anything. It's beyond anything that the human being can life. You can't buy a heartbeat. You can't buy life, no matter how much money you got in the world. When the old ticker goes, No night. You can't buy another heartbeat. The real patient were
Leya:offered the choice. We're offered the choice to decide where we go.
Reverend Ben Cooper:If you could buy miracles. Yeah, you could buy life going here. Yeah. The Richest Man or old person on the planet can't buy another heartbeat. You can't buy a mortality.
Leya:No. And buy. I mean, they're trying to do that thing now where they replaced pigs, hearts with pigs hearts and they're trying to work out ways that they can freeze people and is that what
Reverend Ben Cooper:what kind of Iceland anymore
Leya:Ma'am, when
Reverend Ben Cooper:did she, so she got that bacon last week? Anyway, sorry, we've reached it. Yeah. I don't think we've done this any just
Leya:I don't think we have a surface and asked a lot of questions and maybe people will go away and think for themselves. Yeah. And that's a miracle. And that's a miracle. Yeah, that's a miracle. I've beaten up someone's hearts possibilities. Life is just beyond human comprehension.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's amazing. It's beyond
Leya:the power of words,
Reverend Ben Cooper:is a fancy word. The word and we thank you so much for joining us today. We hope you have a cracking Easter May God bless you and strengthen you and continue to be washed in the blood of Jesus wherever you are around the world. Oh, I enjoy your chocolate. Cross Buns.
Leya:Happy Easter.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Happy Easter. Happy locked down Easter. Yeah, isn't locked down.
Leya:We are in lockdown is what is lifted in on the day that he rises?
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's lifting on that day
Leya:is miraculous is that you
Reverend Ben Cooper:always keep saying it is connected to the Word of God.
Leya:I just literally just realized that it's living on the day that he rose.
Reverend Ben Cooper:makes you think doesn't
Leya:roll away the stone Come out.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Come out. Come
Leya:out. Come out. Apply.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Okay, you will listen to me. Listen to me, every church. You've been listening to Leia, J. Moore and myself, Reverend Ben Cooper here. Ian church in Swanee. We thank you so much. We're just been nice and soft and gentle. today. We're gonna do too deep. Everyone gone to scatter. You haven't
Leya:even talked about Hawk cross bands. We've really kept ourselves there.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I forgot all about all
Leya:about easter eggs, hoppers, bonds, or any other kind of Easter cake ginawa, lentils, berries, or we have talked about lamb? We
Reverend Ben Cooper:can't be very well. There must be something wrong with us. Now. It's just a great subject. But you know what? I just feel that we haven't gone nowhere with it.
Leya:No, but I don't feel like even if we did a second podcast on it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I don't feel that we could do it. Any because the more you think about it, the more it stops the cogs from thinking exactly. It's so deep, so vast, so beyond human understanding.
Leya:It's one of those core parts where you've got to say people don't ask your own questions.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Ask God to reveal the answer for revelation.
Leya:And remember that you're a miracle. You are a miracle. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And we love you lots
Leya:of women. Find us on.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh yeah, you can find us on buzzsprout Spotify, Apple Music,
Leya:I Heart Radio, Google Play, Alexa, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. Nice.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Stay safe. Keep indoors.
Leya:roll away the stone on Monday. roll away the
Reverend Ben Cooper:stone roll roll. Can't say that roll away the stone and on that note. God bless