Hello and welcome to Elim Church Swanley, you're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper for today's podcast. Good morning podcasts. Good afternoon, everybody, wherever you are today, we welcome you to this really Holy, this really powerful. This really God driven. That's true. God driven chat, because I have my chum in thae house. The bishop of Essex has come all the way over from Essex. Simon, come on now we've been chatting this morning and we were in really drilling into things and God is staring us.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, so it's great to be back in in Swanley. Free and home of the Brave is Yeah. is the home of a staycation. It's staycation.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's all staycation. And finally, you know, pizza will be fantastic, right?
Simon Pinchbeck:We bet with you, Ben. And I just love the way that we were talking and the way the Lord speaks through us and the way that, you know, he puts things on the table for us to get out there. And we honestly believe that this is stuff people need to hear.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And it's it's freedom, isn't it? When you start being honest, and you start talking truthful. And you start to go, do you know what, I'm not going to talk of the way that the church is talking the strap lines, the cliches, the the promoting of self are need to be real, because you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Simon Pinchbeck:Amen to that. And the thing is, though, Ben, you know, where what we hope to do through the podcast is, is bring situations. But let people know what the Lord's prayer and are hard to get out of those situations to be free.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And there's a way forward.
Simon Pinchbeck:And there's a way forward. Even if it was we were just talking a minute gone, even if it's just a few inches a day, another step a day, but we're moving forward every day, because by the end of the month, we had a couple of couple of miles and we'd be further down the line from where we were so yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's where we're here. And today is one of them days where we just got a couple of words in front of us. And just a couple of things the Lord give us and today is going to be one of them days. What we're going to chat about a day is what's holding you back what you're holding. What are you holding on to that's holding you back? Really
Reverend Ben Cooper:so many things. So pride. arrogance is
Simon Pinchbeck:an awful lot of stuff. And I heard a story and last and you Yeah, we're gonna come on to all that stuff feed
Reverend Ben Cooper:in the flesh. Oh, all that stuff. It's all about me.
Simon Pinchbeck:I heard a story in which all real really identify this thing in a visual way was this. And it's how they catch monkeys in in Indonesia. Now. I don't know why they want to catch monkeys in Indonesia. But this is the way they do it. They get jars. Yeah. And I put those stones in the jar. Yeah, the, the the hole at the top of the jar is just big enough for the little monkey to push little pore in. Yes. Right. And so it rattles the rouser thing around the part of things. I want to know. What's it what's in the pot, so it puts this little pouring and it grabs hold of the stones at the bone. And of course, when he makes a fist, he can't get the pot.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Isn't that interesting? He can't let go.
Simon Pinchbeck:Let go and he won't let go. And of course they just come along and of course it can't run with a pot on its pour. So they got a jam pop. It's just jammed up. And always got to do is let go.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Could you know what a lightbulb moment for me? It's just gone on. Do you know what Come on in. I've got to let go. You've got I've got my hand in too many pots. You've just picking up too many stones and each stone represents something done.
Simon Pinchbeck:Each stone represents something Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that is such a clever analogy. That is really powerful. But how? How powerful is that? That this is a such a simple way of catching the little fellas. Yeah, and that's what the devil does and that's what the women got a hand in number 10 for the letterbox we put a hand deep into number 10 letterbox we grabbed out of his mouth. Okay, very say that on us. Gotcha. Gotcha.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And then the world's gotcha. And so the world a new new grab our stuff. And you have grabbed them. Because you can't with a clenched hand. You I can't give you anything with a clenched hand can I know I can't pick anything up. I can't give you any to anything. But likewise, I can't receive anything. We were clenched down. Yes. So you can't give me anything because until those hands are open, wide,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and when the hands are open, you've let Everything has gone. Wow. So then that monkey is intelligent animal. Yeah. But because it is so intrigued and because it doesn't have the intelligence to go, let go. It's like a human being, isn't it? I'm grabbing everything that the world is offering. Yeah, that jar that that was in that jar, a little look, I want to put my hand in, I'll put my toe in that arena and I'll just stretch into that jar, I'll grab them wherever they are. And I want I want to pull it out into my world up, but I can't, I can't let go. And I do honestly believe that I've got so many things in my life that I've just gotta let go of everything. You can't let go. Let go of everything,
Simon Pinchbeck:you know. And I wonder if you've been listening to the podcasts that we've Bishop and Ben have put out over the last few weeks and then you'll understand that we're talking about that garden of gift seminar experience. We just got to let everything go. And and sometimes, you know, I've been you're aware of stuff. But sometimes we're not aware of stuff. Yeah, that we're that's causing us problems causing us. You know, aggravation, and and the only way that we can know that is through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. And that's where the garden experience comes in as well. When we were flat on our face or on our knees lately surrendered. Where we go out of spirit. What's what what am I holding? Answer?
Reverend Ben Cooper:What is what do you want me to get rid of hearts hold on to things that
Simon Pinchbeck:neck? Yeah, it's very difficult. I know.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Memory. fonts. Yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:I know. I know, man that that will give up everything except the control of their family
Reverend Ben Cooper:control. Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the thing is you we've said it before, you can't have one foot in one camp one for another. You've got to give God everything. You've got to give God everything, everything, everything over.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And it's nothing. You can't give God material. things you've got to give him your heart. But but the process of that monkey putting his hand into the jar, the process of me being a believer, and putting my hand into the world's jar into number 10s, letterbox and grabbing what they've got. Because you can go and live the dream and be wherever you want, and have no consequences to the way that you are living by government formulas. But really, I'm trapped because I put my hand in the letterbox or grab what they said. But really, I don't want to live like that. But it's the temptation of living like that. Because the temptation feeds the flesh and
Simon Pinchbeck:there's a fear in letting go. There's a fear
Reverend Ben Cooper:of letting go because if I let it go, I'm not I'm not a man. If I'm if I let go, I'm not really. The caveman if I let go on, I'm weak but no surrender.
Simon Pinchbeck:If I give God control Jesus control over my finances, over my home of my family, over my heart of my heart, goodness, then,
Reverend Ben Cooper:what's the purpose?
Simon Pinchbeck:Where am I? Who am I? What What have I got today?
Reverend Ben Cooper:identity, what you are is a complete person that has surrendered everything to Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:He says, you know, if you we need to get into the word dummy, because he completely totally in the way that you know Matthew 1128. Yes. Come to me with all your burden. Yeah, I will give you believe what it says come to me with all this stuff. And I will give you the rest. Why? Because my yoke is easy. And my burden is like Oh, come on, yo I will walk with you is this is the promise of garden.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But open your hands up, just let it go. So by opening your hands, is a clear picture of you opening your heart. So when you let go of everything that's in your grasp, you're opening your heart up to say, I'm yours.
Simon Pinchbeck:stand before the Lord, we've opened with open hands. Now. You see that in church many times, but that's when people want to believe they're going to receive the Holy Spirit.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm going to get a blessing when actually no, it's a sign of surrender. So I'm going to surrender hands out, I let go of everything that I'm in controlling because let's be honest, brothers and sisters and people around the world well, we try and control ourselves because we think that we know best for ourselves. So I'll hold on to this area of life. I'll hold on to that and I I built this business with my hands. I built this I put this house out I so the word is like the hand of the monkey holding on, on holding on to everything
Simon Pinchbeck:We could reach the stage only where we where many of us go. I'll give you this load. I'll give you that load. But you know, I'll hold on to this.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'll call this back this back. Okay, me hand in this job.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, I won't control my business. Yeah, you can have everything else. No. We said before, you can't be 90 odd percent faithful to your wife.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can't you got yes or no,
Simon Pinchbeck:yes or no
Reverend Ben Cooper:yes or no.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the thing is, what you said, right at the start of Ben is rather important. There's a freedom in giving stuff over
Reverend Ben Cooper:to the Lord. Why is there freedom in that? Simply because the scripture says you will know the truth and the truth will set you frame its truth. But we're holding on to lies, aren't we? I've got my hand in number 10. Grabbing everything that's the site and the world is is offering. And it's so easy to do because the crowd has got their hands in the same letterboxes because we're herded.
Simon Pinchbeck:And listen,
Reverend Ben Cooper:we're pushed to put your hands in the letterbox. But when you push your hand in the letterbox your bodies, you got your hand in the jar, you can't move it, you're restricted, you're restricted. So
Simon Pinchbeck:what you've been doing, you've been listening to the words of the world, instead of listening to the words of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. And the thing is, how do we know that what's being told is the truth what we test it by scripture all the time, but if you're in the word, then you know, and you feel communicating with with Jesus and to the Father on a regular basis, then, you know, yeah, you know, he's never going to tell you to do anything. You know, he says, In the Bible, doesn't it? You know, if you ask me, for some bread are not going to give you a stone, if you ask me for an egg, I'm not going to give you a scorpion, you know that, that? He's not going to do that. It's not going to do that. What he wants is the very best for you. So if there's something inside, if you're, you know, I'll give you an example. A good friend of mine, I'm seeing it tomorrow was wracked with fear and into his 50s he was okay, RAC would fieri you'd never flown because of the fear of flying. He never is Christian man. You know, I'm a born again believer, but in and he was wrapped within our fear and doubt, to the biggest. Yes. tongues of the enemy. Yeah. So we was on one of these things we do that we do. And he was asked, he asked the Holy Spirit, you know, where did that fear begin? And if we found out the Saudi spirit went very quickly, very deeply, and when you're open, and when you put yourself
Reverend Ben Cooper:out? Yeah, tell me Lord,
Simon Pinchbeck:go very quickly, very deeply and bring out and the source of that fear was when he was eight years old. He was on a bus, okay, a school bus. Yeah, bus broke down, the doors were locked. The driver got off the phone, and he was so frightened that he thought he was going to so that was the rope that was the route that's where he grows, died. And that's everything else from that point,
Reverend Ben Cooper:stemmed from that from that, it'd be great that that little seed that little seed grew into a tree that was that was controlling his his
Simon Pinchbeck:air, and then you could bring that out, praise God and our spirit, just the Lord. He poured it before the foot of Jesus and we got rid of that stuff for him.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So So church can't deal with it. Religion can't deal with it. Pastors can't deal with it in a box, rubbing your rosary beads and go so every sestamibi
Simon Pinchbeck:Holy Spirit it
Reverend Ben Cooper:has to be the work of God the words the work of God to the bishop ain't going to salt it.
Simon Pinchbeck:Kitchen is rain now you're in, you're in big trouble, then you know, and and here's the deal we see. God cannot fully the father cannot fully use you to your full potential if you're holding on to stuff
Reverend Ben Cooper:associated shoe in Egypt. So it keeps you in Egypt keeps you from going into the promised land. So it brings us back to our blond haired controller, doesn't it? A Pharaoh
Simon Pinchbeck:brings a faster Pharaoh. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've got my hand in the letterbox. He's controlling me because the flesh wants to pick the stones up. But the scripture says don't grab the stones of life. Don't grab them that stuff. Open your hand. Come on, follow me. Don't bring any stones but Lord, I can't follow it because my hands are in number 10. I've got my hands Lord in the system and and some of us because we've been taught to grab it through school for education. What do you mean, same sex marriage. I've been taught that. So I grab it. I hold on to it. Creation, evolution, or drop creation down. And I put my hand for the letterbox and I pick up evolution. So there's trappings that we are taught through the actions of the world of the actions of the government, the actions of education, the actions of business, we are taught how To pick up worldly stones, and we've got our hands in the jar of number 10 we don't have to let go because if I let go, I'll be the little monkey standing on my own.
Simon Pinchbeck:There's and there's all sorts of stuff coming in from the world isn't there you know, feed
Reverend Ben Cooper:in a cup of stone, all
Simon Pinchbeck:that then you got to have a new car, you've got to have this you've got the other, you know, got other 16 CVS stuck in your living room, you've
Reverend Ben Cooper:got an in the toilet. I've all the end of the bath,
Simon Pinchbeck:you've got a lexer in your ringtone, you got to have all of the best smartphone, but they're all stuff that weighs us down. And I did a talk in a church up up north of one wonderful church it was and I let you in while I was looking for a window.
Reverend Ben Cooper:If you're bringing Jesus in this establishment you're not coming in.
Simon Pinchbeck:And what they did. They did mosquito sketching, you know, I'm not a great one for those things. But but this really at the point. Yeah. And it was a young girl and she had black sacks on a bag. She was carrying a bag and each sack was labeled shame. Yeah, unforgiveness. Yes. And other stuff, fear, anxiety, and she was carrying them along. And one of the guys took the place of Jesus and he said, How are you? You know, are you getting on? And she said, Oh, I haven't seen you for a while. And she said, No, no, no, I might get on to these. I might get onto this. And I really don't want to see you but I would of course sort of skip. Each bag was laid down lay down each bag was laid down and she was free
Reverend Ben Cooper:and a hand come out the jar Hank, I'm out and she was free as your freedom your freedom you will know the truth and the truth will set you stuff for the for Jesus and it comes back to Jesus claimed to have come back to the cross. The blood will be a sign your name stamped in the Lamb's book of life helped me to lay down arrogance helped me to lay down pride helped me down to lay down the lust of the eyes. The sins of the flesh help me to lay down worry helped me to lay down the stones that are weighing me down but whose stuff
Simon Pinchbeck:that's that's weighing you down
Reverend Ben Cooper:your bones weigh you down, helped me to, to release the things of the world helped me to be able to pull my hands back out of number 10s letterbox and lift my hands to Jesus. I lift my hands to Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's a great vision. And that's a great picture. Yeah, it's like in your your hands away from the stuff that's holding you back and let me lift them or lifted
Reverend Ben Cooper:him up to let me lift them. Yeah. Let me lift them up. God, let me lift my hands. Bye. Bye. That is a sign of surrender, isn't it? That is a survivor sign a sign sorry, of coming to a place of going. I'm done. I'll give it to you. I get but as we say, I give it to you. At last you can almost see Jesus saying you can hear the heavens almost rejoicing. They've got it. They've got they they know now.
Simon Pinchbeck:And then what will you say it will say? I can use that guy. I can use that woman. I can use them. I can use them up in use. Why can you
Reverend Ben Cooper:use me now Jesus, that's where I wanted you to come to. Because you're empty of self. And now
Simon Pinchbeck:and that's what it's all that's what the gospel is about. You hear john the baptist. You know, repent, repent, repent. You hear Jesus come and repent. repent, repent to Hawaii. Yeah, yeah, give it to me turn away from that stuff. Except me. be born again. You know, just
Reverend Ben Cooper:to be free yesterday. What a freedom isn't it? It's a freedom. repent, repent, repent, repent whatever's
Simon Pinchbeck:in your past.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Even in your in your now
Simon Pinchbeck:even in
Reverend Ben Cooper:your now. Repent. Repent right now Lord, turn away from it
Simon Pinchbeck:confess it
Reverend Ben Cooper:turn away from it. drive out jealousy, drive out anger.
Simon Pinchbeck:unforgiveness hate me. Take more of me into your life. And then give it back to me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:pray the prayer of Lord. I want to be completely emptied of me. I'm selfish. It's all about me. How I want to live. Drive the anger out. Take the frustration out. Lord, I want to be completely surrender. Because when you look at war, to lift the white flag is like the last thing that anyone would ever do, isn't it?
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, it is associated with being weak down. Yeah, but it's not being was not weak Is it because we because we, we live in an upside down kingdom, you know. So that is surrender.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's the strength, surrender, surrender, surrender, breathe out. I can't surrender law because if I surrender Lord in the workplace a lot if I so Render and give my life completely to Jesus. I'm going to be looked at strange because I've got to keep going. I can't, I've got to grab everything that work is offering. I've got to do everything that the world is saying. I've got to Grab it, grab it, Grab it, grab it, Grab it, grab it, because that's culture. That's what we've been taught. have what you want.
Simon Pinchbeck:And, and Jesus will say to you, what else okay.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But do you really want it?
Simon Pinchbeck:I'm offering you are you going to? I'm offering new a new life. And you so cave? Yes. Where you where you want to be? That's where you are. But I'm here when you're ready. That's right. I mean, when you're ready, I'm not gonna force you. Yeah, yeah, no, but you know, there may come a time where you give it all? Yeah. And and when you're ready, I'm ready for you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Has God said to Joshua, properties, there was a promise, a promise. And God said to Joshua and his generation, today, his decision j day, sorry, Joshua, chapter five. He said, today is decision day, you can follow me. But you've got to make your mind that you're gonna make your mind out. If you're not gonna follow me. You're going to follow the gods of your ancestors, you're going to follow the the gods of the other side of the Euphrates River. But then Joshua goes, hang on. Now, as for me, in my household, we're going to serve the Lord. We're going to serve the Lord. Who are you going to serve? Today? God is actually saying those words down the lens down down the tubes to the UK to the bullet God is God is saying that to us. Yeah. To all our who will be
Simon Pinchbeck:listening to the sound of this podcast, this is not Simon and Ben speaking. This is the Ali Smith. brewers. And And who are you going to serve? Listen, if you want to carry on holding on to the stuff that's that you did you feel comfortable with? Yeah. Because that's what it's about
Reverend Ben Cooper:the power of free will even back in the day of Joshua. The power of free will now. Who are you going to choose to serve? Are you going to serve the gods of the Canaanites? The jebusites? Are you going to serve the gods of your ancestors of the Knights of the lights? Because there's lots of lights? I know. But listen, are you going to serve me?
Simon Pinchbeck:Today's we've got anger rights we've got
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, jam your rights. Serve whoever you want to serve? Are you going to serve me?
Simon Pinchbeck:Pretty sis clear in the Bible, then if
Reverend Ben Cooper:you cannot serve two masters, you can't serve two masters. And God in only sovereignties power is glory said to Joshua, choose who you serve today.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the thing is, you'll never beat the flesh in the flesh. He never really spoken about his diamonds only. You need the Holy Spirit. Yes, you need the only space. So if you there's an anger issue going on. If I'm talking to you in the flesh, I'm not going to convince you to drop your anger.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You tell me I'm angry. Now? I can't do it. He can't. It's it. You're so right silent, because the words right? You have to surrender and allow the Holy Spirit to be the counselor, the Comforter, the great I am because I need his help to help me to surrender.
Simon Pinchbeck:That man that I talk about sometimes in my testimony that Johnny who who I found crying on the other wall of this of the church in in Luton, he looked at me and said, I just don't want to be angry anymore, we'd come to that point where we didn't want to be angry anymore. And in the Holy Spirit brings you to that point,
Reverend Ben Cooper:freedom in brokenness, freedom in tears
Simon Pinchbeck:totally. But comes with point. But you don't have to get that far not. You don't have to be broken down on your knees in that situation. Because if you recognize that this stuff, let's get it out and start with it and deal with it early. But we can't deal with it, to recognize it
Reverend Ben Cooper:to be recognized, and we won't recognize it without the Holy Spirit. So we won't recognize a wretched man. Until we realize it's really difficult to word isn't it because God reveals things. But God also gives us the power of freewill for us to because a lot of us mean me more than anyone maybe I know that I'm failing, but I won't allow myself to look at my failings because that's the way the world makes me but when I look at my failings, I can quite easily go all my sin and go I'm not really doing that. I'm not really engaging in that. It's not really me because when I start look at that helped me a lot I've done it again
Simon Pinchbeck:is the develop you know let me tell you I'll give you an a visual a visual yeah we bought a flytrap the other the other day on it cost a couple of quid from home base to be honest with you. Yes thing is I let you in is is a little bottle and you pour some attractants in nothing is your sugar water really and your anger doesn't look as unsightly just angle it up and you go yeah and the thing is when the flies get in it's a bit like the Hotel California for the flies you know you can get in any time in life but you can never leave so they get in but they can't get out
Reverend Ben Cooper:trapped.
Simon Pinchbeck:Now who believe me this is the best Fly Trap I've ever seen because within a matter of days we add a layer of flies big black layer of flies in that thing. Now flies have got 1000 knives and they got 1000s of eyes They must be able to see and see stuff and see the other dead flies in there knows there was hundreds of them but they still were didn't could not resist actually get into the flytrap because of the the attracting was there it was tempting bringing them in and once they were in man they were in your in you're trapped and that is the same with us once we are given to that temptation where we're interact with trapped but is the deal Jesus offers us a way out the blood he opposites away in the opposite way away out on the
Reverend Ben Cooper:same my I might not on a daily basis on a daily basis. I might not act and indulge the flesh in that but as soon as my mind starts thinking as soon as my mind starts engaging I don't need to produce the physical act Do you when not I might not show anger I'm angry inside
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, and the thing is what happens in if you're living a life like that you live in a total distraction to everything you want to do and is a real wrong witness and it is the wrong word because believe it or not somewhere that will come out it will all come out it's like it's like shaking a bottle of pop up in an opening once the lids off and you know where it comes out nine times out of 10 in your family with your missus Exactly. And what did I say what I do how well
Reverend Ben Cooper:off we go
Simon Pinchbeck:got to deal with it got to do we got to do it why cut it off for the past selfish ness you got to not invite faults in there you know those folks who come in you don't have to invite them they'll come in sit down have a cup of tea with them Do you know you can yes you can stop them yeah you know and
Reverend Ben Cooper:see fear is a very good thing is massive you can win I mean good thing I mean what I mean by that is all you can hide fear but he might be dressed he might look nice you got your best suit on you got your smelling beautiful today Simon but I cough You're welcome my friend. Like your high heels church said you can wear them so you can wear them so
Simon Pinchbeck:macho
Reverend Ben Cooper:but you can be dressed on the outside but no one can really see what's going on on the inside. Yeah, totally. You can you know you can be in your fine business so you can be in your your attire that you've got for the day and you can be smiling but the other side of the smile you're you're holding on to things fear saying that we hold on to lust that you hold on to doubt that you hold on to inside that no one sees no one sees but
Simon Pinchbeck:all of that stuff causes it causes a certain behavior. Yeah. On the outside. Yeah, it takes away your peace. Yeah. For start off you mented with it. You overcompensate for fear by doing something good. Yeah. And one of the worst things that people hold on to that really, you know, will eat you away from the inside me some forgiveness
Reverend Ben Cooper:and forgiveness.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's absolutely massive because unforgiveness turns into resentment and bitterness,
Reverend Ben Cooper:anger, frustration, everything. It is a lot that can stem from the root of unforgiveness isn't there. So if people someone has hurt you, you know and people hold on to that for years, and then it becomes like a layer doesn't it where you you layer stuff over the top of it. And you almost Forget about it, but you don't forget about it. But the years of build up of holding on to it in layers and layers and layers,
Simon Pinchbeck:and when that person's name is mentioned is an anger is that if as soon as situation occurs, say if you've been they've ripped you off or or, or they've said a few words. Yeah, not dealt with it. Yeah. If you don't deal with that stuff that stuff festers? Yeah. And the thing is, you're living in a prison in a cage, where the other person don't even know when they're wandering around.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, just getting on with life, and you're carrying all
Simon Pinchbeck:this stuff. And LSD is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies, which is the same thing, you know, from from the inside. But we'll never get rid of unforgiveness without the Holy Spirit. Can't do it. We can't do it. If we if, if you recognize if someone's done something to you recognize it, you know, let's get rid of it straight away.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Let's deal with it.
Simon Pinchbeck:But if it's if it's deep, and and this is hurt, that's come from the past. Let's get the Holy Spirit involved in it. Let's get it out. You know, I remember the story of a great story of Corrie 10, boom that, you know, wow, yeah, that's very powerful, very powerful. A lady in the, in the camp, in the camps, and in Wow, in Germany, and seats or a family got killed. And then she's preaching on forgiveness. And we're in the very place where she's preaching. A guy walks in at the back. And he's one of the prison guards that was in the same prison that killed her sister. And he said, Is there forgiveness for me? She, she, in our own flesh, she could not the Spirit of the Lord at a takeover. And in a spirit, she said, Yes, his forgiveness for you. But he can't do that in the flesh. You can't do it in the flesh.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So how do I how do I achieve that surrender, surrender my hands up,
Simon Pinchbeck:and there's some rendus things that have been done to family members deserve some renders things that's been done individually. I encounter people all the time that, that come to me and go, I'm living a lie. I can't forgive this can't forgive a carpet. This has happened to me and I can't forgive you because you can't forgive by yourself now. But with the Holy Spirit, the healer the helper, yeah, all ellaby to bring that out, yes. And even. And even pray for the other person. And bless them. That's a
Reverend Ben Cooper:big thing. And as huge, but what does the Bible say about your enemies? Laurie from Yeah, love them. Pray for those that persecute you. Love those that harbor you. Give them your coat, feed them, water them. Pepsi give? Give?
Simon Pinchbeck:So you whipped out His Spirit, believe me. I know is this and believe me? I know it's difficult. But you really have to do that. And then the big one is forgiving yourself. Yeah, for getting into that situation in the first place.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Lord, forgive me, forgive me.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And people forget about that one, but as a big one. So, you know, people can sometimes forgive but not forgive themselves.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And it's an easy place to get to where I don't actually realize I've done that. I don't realize that I've actually held on to that. How can you say that? What's the biblical reference for that? Simply when Christ was on the cross, he said, Father, forgive them for they know, know what they do. So the lifestyle and the culture that we're in, allows us and teaches us very easily to do the wrong things. And to hold on to the wrong things. Because it's a cultural thing. It's what the world is doing. The Bible says do not conform to the pattern of the world.
Simon Pinchbeck:If the world says rule says, If you know An eye for an eye, then it is what the world says. Yeah, going back to the old law, you know, but you imagine, five imagine you know what they did to Jesus, what he did to him. And now we're into the cross what they did to him, they abused him. Imagine a father watching that for his to his own being done to his own son. And imagine I was thinking this the other day, imagine if one of them guys ridiculed Jesus or stepped up the crown of thorns on his head or even the guy that nailed his feet that cross imagining up equally if we went. If we went Father, forgive me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Come on, son. Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah. I welcome you in Yeah. Is it I don't know where we're gonna go from this on this because this is a this is really a thought provoking a heart pull on the heart that when Christ was hanging on the cross, and he was looking down, and his eyes were on the crowd and looking at those that beat him, you know, looking at the chief priests looking at the Lord give us snare in engineering. And then he says that at the end, Father, forgive them,
Simon Pinchbeck:for they know not what they've done. For
Reverend Ben Cooper:they know for they no no different they've done crucifixion forever
Simon Pinchbeck:forgiveness you know in the world Father forgive father bring down bolts on these people bring down yeah, they both destroyed their family scaling up.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, even at least Jesus forgive that person that offended me. forgive that person that beat me forgive that person not bad on the spot on may forgive that person that the abused me as a child forgive that person Lord that that that took my money forgive that person that set that left me forgive that person Lord that is abused me mentally physically forgive that person at work forgive, forgive, forgive, forgive and how long should this go on my entire life? You forgive my life?
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah What did Peter say how many times how many times suavely said no, so many times, so, which actually meant an infinity number, you just got to keep going on
Reverend Ben Cooper:for all the time I'm walking this earth, for every arrow that the enemy fires at me for every whiplash that they bring to me. For every word they throw at me for every situation that is going against me, Father, forgive them. What did
Simon Pinchbeck:what did Paul say in in Corinthians, he said, You know, he begged three times for a phone to be taken out of his Yeah, plays a lot already. And every time I played it, you know, you that will remain with you, because my grace is sufficient for you. But Lord, and you'll find strength in your weakness. So, so, you know, that might be something that's in your life that you're continually, continually, but you continue to bring in it to the fire, but it's a good place to be, you're continually bringing that
Reverend Ben Cooper:place like we're moving, plays live and move and the fire
Simon Pinchbeck:was seen, you're gonna I'll give you the strength to get through it. That's what he's saying. My grace is sufficient for you. I will give you the strength to get through it. But that will keep you humble. Now, it will keep you
Reverend Ben Cooper:that will keep you at the foot
Simon Pinchbeck:across because if I give you a complete freedom you'll be could be very prideful. You'd be very prideful and be going look at me on our on our bed. And you look Yeah, you're still struggling with that. The Lord sent me free on the air.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, arrogance, arrogance and pride. hypocrisy is sufficient for you. So what you're saying, Lord, that you're gonna you're gonna sustain me in my, my hardest time? Yes. You sign Laura. You're going to help me Lord, walk through the valley of the shadow of death.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yes, because I want you to keep coming back to me. I want you to keep coming back to the fire. But I want you to keep gaining strength from the Father, I want to walk with you, my son or daughter. I want to walk with you. Because I created you before the very beginning of time and in your mind, we're going to do great things together. You belong to me. You belong to me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You don't belong to the world. You don't belong to them. I created you. Yeah, I loved you unconditionally. I sent my one and only Son to die upon the cross for you. Yeah, your mind, your mind. And we think that we've got the audacity to choose Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:Jesus said in john 1630, free dinner, you know, don't worry about this world because you're in this world, you will have trouble but I have overcome the world. I have overcome come to bring peace and I've overcome the world. And you will have you have that peace. You won't be tormented, you will have that peace. Because why? Because you know, you're walking with a father. You've handed it over to Jesus. And Jesus has gone look at this man or woman father, this is your son and daughter, not what I've done.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So as I start to surrender, I start to get free to start to get free as I start to talk about my idiosyncrasies, my sins, my guilts my worry, guilt is another one isn't it feels huge guilt
Simon Pinchbeck:mongers and that's what we were talking about forgiving yourself. guilt. You know, because I've had it so I need to time when I've spoken. You know, sometimes people say, Do you never feel guilty for the stuff you did to other people? Well, well, you can't you can't you can't you can't stay in that in that place of guilt. Yes, you feel sorry for what you've done but that's what repentance is for. And and I lay that down to father says, Don't you know you've you've did that you've cast that into the deepest ocean, and we are going around looking for it. Yes. And and we can pray for people that we've heard and we and that's it but the father doesn't want us to remain there does. He wants us to move forward but the enemy wants you to remember your past. You know Isaiah 4389 says, forget the things of the past. Behold, I'm going to do something new
Reverend Ben Cooper:when you get to do it, Lord, now, yeah, right now, you want freedom. You can have it
Simon Pinchbeck:says in Philippians. And it says move forward to the goal. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that's right.
Simon Pinchbeck:And we've spoken about this and we'll speak about it again. In Luke. He says, keep the answer the plow, don't
Reverend Ben Cooper:know, don't look back. Otherwise, you'll become a pillar of salt.
Simon Pinchbeck:Don't impact fit for purpose, you're
Reverend Ben Cooper:not fit for, you're not fit for purpose. I've got to look forward, I've got to be forward focused. Not because if I look back, I ain't gonna make it. That's why we're a new creation. The old is gone, the new has come. I'm a child of the living God. And now my journey begins when I lift my hands, I take my hands out the letterbox of number 10 I let go the stones of life, I'll lay everything down and lift my hands up to the King of glory. Say I surrender. I surrender role. The day I surrender role is today,
Simon Pinchbeck:hear this
Reverend Ben Cooper:if you're including me on the spot, as well
Simon Pinchbeck:listen to this and listen to it again and again.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And again. Because
Simon Pinchbeck:the father wants to set you Jesus wants to set you free and a farmer wants to use you for his own purpose. And he can't use you if you're sitting there hanging on the stuff that that's that's gone on. Maybe for generations that's going on. Maybe you have a problem from your father or your family. You know, the Holy Spirit will convict you. If you ask him to. Yeah. And you will you will have an amazing life walk in the barber knows Yeah, it's got a plan amazing plans for you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We are, we are clay in the Masters hands and are marred and I'm scarred. But when the master works on this clay, he will get the imperfections out. He will deal with the madness. The marks, the hurts, but I've got to be in the Masters hands.
Simon Pinchbeck:If we only if we put our hands out and surrender. Yeah, not if we're holding on to things in court and forming a fist because
Reverend Ben Cooper:the Angular app and it's not gonna happen, and it will just cause discord, it will cause discomfort, it will cause pain, anxiety, it will fester and, and the devil will feed it the devil. Devil uses it as as as fuel for the fire.
Simon Pinchbeck:You'll be a real bad witness to your family, to the people around you. Because you won't be able to live with yourself not and with all this stuff going on.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So as Simon said earlier on, as we land this and bring this to a full stop just to grab a breath. How do I how do I get to this place? I just go say I just say Jesus, I surrender. I surrender all Yeah, show me, your work with me. Open me up like a surgeon. Do, do do an operation on my heart. Lord, tear the layers back of this skin. And go in Lord and Lord, I want my heart to be like the clay in the Masters hands. My heart needs to be in your hands,
Simon Pinchbeck:get to the place, get to the garden that we're talking about over those last few weeks. And say to the Holy Spirit. Is there anything in me that needs to be solid, reveal it reveal it now? And I'm totally surrender and whatever is revealed, you know, confess it, repeat it. Yeah. And let's get you out of the way.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Amen. Amen. And Amen. It is easy. But it's tough.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's massively tough. But it's the most absolutely rewarding thing that you're to walk in freedom.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because you can't describe it.
Simon Pinchbeck:You might you know, we you know we sing about Jesus name breaks every chamber you imagine if you're sitting there weighed down with chains and stuff that you've been struggling with for years and years and years, generational stuff that you don't even realize at the time. Yeah, and I already spoke or come in and go bang, confess it repented and aren't over, done,
Reverend Ben Cooper:handed over.
Simon Pinchbeck:Don't. And that's the big thing. Don't sit around thinking our guilty person I am what a bad person. I'll hand it over and over is when it's gone. It's gone.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Come to me. Jesus is is His Word is the same yesterday, today and forevermore. And as we bring this to a pose. Jesus is saying, Come to me.
Simon Pinchbeck:He's saying come to me it right now. Listen to these live on over father's arms where wherever you are listening to this where we are around the world. Please listen to this, that the Lord The father wants the very best for you. And that's why send His own Son, Jesus Christ. For you to and stuff over and we want to pray. Right now if there's anyone out there struggling with with stuff, fear, doubt, pride, pride, any, any anything anything that like that we just pray that you you'll have the courage to get before the Holy Spirit and and say Holy Spirit convict me of anything bring out anything that you need to be dealt with and and confess it and one john one nine tells us that He is the Lord is faithful to forgive if we can pay our rent this way man. So we confess it repent which means turn away from it and the over to the faucet across us black plastic bin liners and throw it right before the cross and Jesus or deal with it. And you're walking freedom when we pray that you're walking freedom yes like to go on and serve the Lord in the way that he uses it and not my will but your will be downfall. And we just pray that for all those people out there right now that are struggling with so much that spirit will will convict you. And you'll confess and repent and move forward in freedom and we pray for freedom for all of you. In Jesus name.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Amen. There we go. Thank you so much for listening to the power of God's Word. Not us. We thank you so much. You know, we really feel God has really pressed us today really pushed us has taken taken us deeper today. So the simple word is what you hand in, and what you holding on to what you're handing over. But what you're holding on to, let's just put our hands up to Jesus let go the stones of life, just hand it over. We thank you so much wherever you are across the globe today. May God bless you and strengthen you, Simon, we thank you from the very bottom of our heart for sharing this as we've gathered around the mics. And by the hand of the Lord always be on you're my friend and all the podcasts out there. We
Simon Pinchbeck:We call this Christian straight talk that way. And this is this is about getting some straight
Reverend Ben Cooper:talking. So Laura, Christian, straight talk. Yes, straight out from the hip, straight down the barrel straight down the barrel straight down the barrel. You know, even my friends, freedom in Christian, we love you. We love all of you. May God bless you and strengthen you but let's just let go of the stones of life. And just praise the name of Jesus. Yes, Simon is stoked. So true Christian, straight talk, wherever you are made the hand of the Lord be upon you. We'll catch you very very soon. God bless. Thank you for listening on the platforms of buzzsprout, Spotify and all them other areas and, you know, just lift up the name of Jesus. God bless goodbye. And we'll catch you very very soon.
Close:Thank you for listening to Elim church on this latest podcast. You can find us on buzzsprout Spotify, Apple Music iHeartRadio Google Play Alexa, mixcloud, Facebook, Instagram an YouTube.