Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:01

Hello, and welcome to Elim church Swanley where you're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper for today's podcast here, we're back. We are back. We're in the house of the Lord and we thank god to everyone wherever you may be today. This is the day that the Lord has made. We shall rejoice and be glad. You know, we are children of the living God. And we thank you so much for gathering around these mics. Whoever's listening to us, wherever you may be on planet earth this morning, and we have our good friend, and we are gonna be really serious today. We're not gonna laugh. We're not gonna joke, you know, he's in the house with me today. No, you know, he's on the other side of the lens. We got Simon Pinchbeck good friend, you know, and he's got a great men's ministry. God has used him God has guided him God has strengthened him God has taken him through the valley of the shadow of death. And we thank God for Simon's life and everything that he's been involved in and what God is opening fresh doors, new beginnings. And we are together again.

Simon Pinchbeck: 0:55

Now. It's great to be back again. Great to be back with you. Great to be back in Swanley. The sun is shining. And as you said, you know this is the day the Lord is my way you should choose to rejoice and be glad in a good

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:07

you got some

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:09

great day. Don't forget that. We're where we do we're speaking to you from Christian straight talk for men.#Christian straight talk for men. It's not straight talk for men. It's just #Christian straight talk and it is straight talk. Yeah, boots has #Christina Straight Talk.. I've got men on the brain.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:27

Easy.

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:28

Yeah. Don't come down as a rabbit. Oh, but come on yet.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:34

We are in the house. And we have our good brother. And we are looking. That is a we just want to push the over a little bit this morning. We have some things happening in in the arena with the Lord and he's opening doors for us. And God has dropped this this line upon us. And it's really important. Yeah, hashtag, Christian Straight Talk. You know, it's Simon is so used to talking and being encouraged to men, God is actually changing him into the area of ministry of men and women. So Simon is coming from a platform where God has used him very powerfully in the men's ministry, but God has opened his eyes and revealing to him that Simon it's time to move in a fresh direction.

Simon Pinchbeck: 2:18

Certainly, and, and it's great. It's exciting. And yeah, really is exciting. You know, encouragement is love to encouragement. You

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:28

are an encourager, you really are an encouraging God has led you. And I'm always speaking here, but this is really important that Simon is a is an encourager, he's an encourager. he's a he's a steadfast man in the Word of God, He will, he will tell you literally, as it is, he will be completely honest and completely open. There is no ducking and diving and weaving and bobbing, he will tell you the truth. So he has ministered to probably uncountable men over the time. So he is programmed, it's quite interesting that you are programmed that we're men is just in you, because you are always been speaking to men. But your new beginnings my friend, and

Simon Pinchbeck: 3:09

I would say, and it's great to be coming out of that, and this great to be able to have an opportunity to, to let the Lord sort of open doors up in, in in the cross gender,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:20

across the across all sisters and brothers, sisters and brothers, brothers and sisters. So there's a blend and and I thank God for these men's ministry in these the women's ministry. But I do think that we are reaching a point where we do have to say, Hang on a moment. Why are we targeting targeting the men? And why are we targeting the women? I know, I know it has to happen. But I do believe on both sides of the gender issue, that we can lean too much into one and forget the other when God's word touches every human being versus Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 3:55

that's right. And I think encouragement is something that we sadly lack in the UK. Yeah, I see it in other places around the world. And I think is something that before we get into the meat of what we'll be talking about, I think it's something that on a daily basis, we should look into encourage

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:15

encourage,

Simon Pinchbeck: 4:17

give a quick example. I had to spend some time in the in the fun shop, I was shopping, swapping over my phone this week, the contract, come to an end. And whilst they were doing transferring all the data and all that sort of stuff that which they do there was another guy in the shop and it was a little Asian lady, a little guy, lady from probably the Philippines or something. I mean, it was in the 60s and she then got a clue

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:41

out what she was looking at what she was looking at, and

Simon Pinchbeck: 4:44

then it would have been quite easy for the shop guy to to his name was jack who would have been quite easy to project to dismiss. Yes. But he spent he spent about 20 minutes with this little lady saw an error email. Doing all that? Yeah, I got a penny in it for him for the shop. Yeah, it was just great encouragement assets and Magana minute jack is being encouraged, right, because that is you really sort of

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:12

changed someone's life easily because they've been emails, texts when you're not a techie. And you've got an issue. It's, it's, it's life changing. And then someone goes out there with that. That's what we need more of, don't we encourage you? I'll deal with that. So that you're not dominant for me.

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:33

We're too busy. Quit a couple of quick day.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:39

Yeah. When Actually,

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:41

no, let's just do something to

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:43

encourage one another.

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:44

And that's what they have to go over. Jesus was all about, and we will come on to that at another time, but today, Ben, what we're looking at, we're looking at something, you know, I've thought it would give me given a towel shaking and shaking and awakening and letting God use you. But I do think we're coming to a time where the world is being shaken. Yeah, I think yes, the men or women have been shaken. There's a couple of scriptures which look at that. Romans 1311, Ephesians 514 that says, a weight you who sleep or rice and my dad will give you like we were were at a moment, Ben, I don't know. We've spoke about it in the preamble. But there's so much stuff coming up from the world. Definitely low in this like a tidal wave. When

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:42

it feels like it's a tidal wave. It feels like it's a tsunami, it feels like I could be drowned at any moment. I'm swamped with the pressure the world the pressure of the government, getting back to some form of work, opening the door to the church family issues. It just feels like I've got loads of things nipping at my ankles.

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:02

You have and you can overwhelm you can can

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:04

overwhelm you, it might it's not one big factor. It's just these little foxes. They're running in the vine yard. They're running in there. They're they're nipping they're, they're making a mess, you know, they're causing me havoc, they're causing me a bit of time over there a bit of time clearing this up clearing that up and you come to the end of the day and you think I've done nothing really but I've been doing everything. I've been distracted because that's what the enemy wants to do. He brings little things as well. temptations he brings things to the world he he might say Don't you know what this looks good this deal over. But it's a fox. It's a fox nipping at what God has given you. It's nipping it's trying to take your attention from God The Little Foxes can be more damaging,

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:50

massively distracted, and I

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:52

just did it what's going to distract it messes with your mind messes with your peace

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:58

going on in the world and

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:59

it's coming out your locker train, literally

Simon Pinchbeck: 8:02

churches as the church is going down a wide road

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:07

on the wide road. Going down the wide road, the man's out there singing, dancing, the church is alive or come and are ridiculous is the TIC Tock church. Come on brothers and sisters, the TIC Tock church do I need to do a silly dance for Jesus

Simon Pinchbeck: 8:24

and you aren't enough what I was saying. Have faith and hope and all that sort of thing doing a little dance or not and get the song guy in in

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:34

black leather jacket, white t shirt. pastors that I know if they if I'd done a tick tock I'll have one tooth missing. I'd have an iron brass sticking out I'd have ripped trousers it'd be it wouldn't look pretty like they do but they're pretty boys. Yeah. The Tick, this is what we've come to all joking aside, we've come to the TIC Tock church, when the church is taking hold of worldly platforms, and trying to adapt itself and make itself fit into the world is strong and it's being made look stupid. It's trying

Simon Pinchbeck: 9:09

to be in a world to win the World.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:11

You can't do that. And the

Simon Pinchbeck: 9:14

scripture going on? Why you from the Bible? Scripture tells us we are to be in the world but not of the world done it. Yes. Yeah. And I don't know. If anybody listen to this out there is just feeling a bit overwhelmed and fuming that I don't have the strength to stand up. Yeah, so this you can see how easy that can be. It's very

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:36

easy. If you just take the social media platforms for an instant. You've got uncountable social media platforms that as a church that you're trying to feed all this stuff you're even as an individual you're spending so much time in social media. That is Little Foxes. It's taking you away from what God has for you is another Fox. He's got Tick Tock Another Fox it's got telegram on it is another Fox over another whatsapp group has sprung on me WhatsApp groups we on 1000s of platforms. Incredible. I'm gonna put you on this group I'll put you in this group be part of this be part of that hang on. I just want to follow Jesus

Simon Pinchbeck: 10:15

I know your phone's forever going off in Cambridge looking at your phone yeah careful of the phone itself can be a massive

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:23

my phone My phone is an absolute nuisance is ringing it is Tick Tock in his Facebook, in his Instagram in his YouTube in his singing all the worldly songs as well as it takes me away from what Jesus wants me to do.

Simon Pinchbeck: 10:39

He does. Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:41

yeah, because it takes me away from family. It takes me away from issues that I should be dealing with.

Simon Pinchbeck: 10:47

How many times do we see families out in the restaurant yet? The parents are on their phones or kids are on their phones or their tablets? There's Yeah. Family conversation. How many times are you at home when you sit down might be at spending time with your family? Yeah, the phone goes in. Yeah, see all the time that you sit, my

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:10

phone is welded to my hand. It's like, I think my mom gave birth to me. I came out with an iPhone. Like you said, take a simple thing of a restaurant before lockdown the three year old child with putting the IKEA that could be given an iPad and then watching Peppa Pig

Simon Pinchbeck: 11:28

Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:28

Do you know what I mean? It's like, we have foxes. We have these foxes that are taking us away from what God wants us to be and where God wants us to do this is really critical for me as a believer because I'm praying these prayers every day Lord sweep for me. Take everything away from me that is it is waste in our cars. I'm not efa along we're four on on wasted have wasted too much of my life already. That's true. Yeah. So Lord, I want to be clean as in. I want everything swept out of me that is of the world. The Press from the TIC Tock church, the press from head office, the press from this, the press from that. And I just want to do what Jesus is calling me to do.

Simon Pinchbeck: 12:15

Imagine this. Imagine you're sitting across from Jesus. And his eyes are burning. And the same to you. There's stuff we want you to do, Ben? Yeah. But you were too busy on your phone with the Facebook. You were too busy on your phone with that WhatsApp stuff. You're too busy doing that. It really took you away from me from seeing that person, man a corner Really? Exactly. Yeah, put your arm around and bring down until you tell them about me.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:47

Yeah, that's it. That is the showstopper. What is taking me away from Jesus. The Bible says Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and everything else shall be added unto thee. So the most important thing that I can do in my life is yes, I've got to follow him. But what's overwhelming me? What? What have I got to stand up for? What am I going to stand up against? Well, am I going to blend with the tick tock? And the social meme? I'm not gonna stand up against and go Hang on a moment. Am I going to allow this? I'm not

Simon Pinchbeck: 13:23

going to allow this in my life? Or Or am I gonna listen to what Jesus wants me to do and

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:30

what's overwhelming you?

Simon Pinchbeck: 13:31

What's what is overwhelm? You see the fingers for the world. He says in one Corinthians 118 it says when he says for the message, the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. Yeah. So if you're in a world and the message of the crosses is foolish, yeah, he says, Those who are being saved, it is the power of God. Allah Allah, it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudence. So here we are. You know the word in the Paul says, Paul, the apostle says in Corinthians know that the message of Jesus is foolishness to those who are in the world.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:25

So it's impossible, it is impossible. For God's word is not impossible for God's word. But what it's impossible for is the world to see God's word until, until God reveals His Word to them all the time they're looking at with religious eyes and looking into the church. They're not going to be able to grasp it because it is not their time of their predestination or time. So salvation is foolishness to them are there there believers in in in a god, what was that with them? Or what are they doing that that is foolishness

Simon Pinchbeck: 14:56

and the crazy thing is now Ben, is that There's a lot more people saying it's foolishness. There's a lot more. And there's a lot more people traveling down at wide, Robert II. And there's only a very few, I believe, after the shaking of Stillman saying they're awake, hold on a minute,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:14

hang on a minute, you know, this is the power of God. Yes, it's

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:18

the cross system here, regardless, is the message. And there's not, there's only a few of those. Yeah. And and I believe God is raising a remnant right now, of people that are going to go out there. And just and they're going to stand up and the gun goes, Lord, I don't quite know what you want me to do, but is my heart and I wouldn't, yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:40

I want God to search my heart. I want God to search me and try me and test me. Because I need to change as a human being I need to change I, I need to stand up. For what I really believe there's coming a time and I think we're already in the time of where you look at Exodus within the churches that there's the church is split in so many different areas at the moment. And it's what I think the church is overwhelming. Men and women in the church. I think religion is overwhelming, actually more than what the world is actually doing.

Simon Pinchbeck: 16:18

Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:20

It's because there's so much false teaching out there. It's overwhelming becomes heavy. And it doesn't sit right. But before locked down. It was it was what it was. But now lockdown has given us an opportunity to look at denominations. Look at, look at the scriptures seek God more. But it hasn't really happened.

Simon Pinchbeck: 16:42

And the church is 10 you got to be this way. You got to do this course you've got to go on. Yeah, be this part of this. But God saying, No, no, I really just want no one your heart and he's not looking for strong, super educated, no logins, you know, because he goes on to say, Paul, the apostle Paul goes on to say a little bit further and one Corinthians into one Corinthians 27. It says, He says, but God has chosen the foolish things that are world to shine the wise. Oh, God

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:11

is out for me.

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:12

And God has chosen a weak things in the world to put Shame on those which are mighty so as outflowing That's right. Yeah. So if you're standing there, and you will cry our Lord. I just don't know what you want to do. But I'm here. I'll stand for you. Yeah. Then you're in a great place.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:31

You're in a great place

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:32

because you're with a load of other people in the Bible that were in a similar sort of

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:37

vein. Yeah, exactly. Same. They were shipwrecked. They was beaten. They were sown, ascended. They was martyred. They was persecuted. They were stretched, they was tested. There was no wave waving of a revival flag. They was dodging the bullet of death all day long. They was run out of cities run out of towns, they was they was they was at the press every day of their life following God.

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:04

I mean, we spoke about it. We had a phone call last week, I think and we drifted into it. And we just drifted. I mean, we have Moses, he was 80 years old when the Lord called him and he had us all Yeah, there was a staff on a star.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:19

Yeah, a star and a star. You know, assume a frame around him. Going up, this is your time, I'm going to use you. But I unload on I'm just about to retire Pharaoh's gonna give me a pension. I'm on what what are you talking about? See age is irrelevant with God in the moment and the time is in his hands. So our plans at times don't line up with the biblical plan that God has for us because we want to command God and tell God that he's going to do this now is we call economists call him the hole in the wall. God I'm gonna go and punch me number in. Let's be number today. Low. There you go. Can you pop out of that? And can you give me give me give me give me give me give me Lord give me because that's what

Simon Pinchbeck: 19:06

we live in a microwave. sighs so

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:08

give me give me right now. It's got me now. I want it now. But hang on. No.

Simon Pinchbeck: 19:14

When I look at Gideon, he is the he's a guy that really tested God any with the fleece? Yeah. He said if you because he didn't really want to do it, gentlemen.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:25

And the law. He's talking about God. And this is the least we can on about

Simon Pinchbeck: 19:28

he was against the Midianites which was the biggest army and they were and they came and they just I would

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:35

pay it down for villages. Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 19:37

yeah. He was against them. Yeah. And the Lord pared it down. What did they have in the in free under was free 100

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:43

free and have lamps and the candle within lamps and the candle.

Simon Pinchbeck: 19:46

They even had any weapons did

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:48

not they probably had teeth missing. They're probably limping. They weren't. They were renegades, but look what God can do her Renegade. And there's two in the Bible that Simon is gonna pull the scripture out for In a minute, and we're going to be going into the book of Acts chapter four where we were some we're going to read a great part of the text out Acts chapter four, verse 13, and it talks about Peter and john.

Simon Pinchbeck: 20:12

That's it. But yeah, we weren't going to come to them. Because we in the in the Bible, take courage, my friend, if you think you can't do anything, if you're in that position, if you're in a position of

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:27

what can I bring to what qualification have I got? I've got no money. I've got none of this. I've got no, I've got no CV. The world looks at me and says, a lowly person. Amen. Hallelujah. If you think you will get ready.

Simon Pinchbeck: 20:43

Get ready, you know, because look at SDN is a is a guy in Kings. His name was shangaan. It says, He killed 600 Philistines with an ox code, which is just a steak a steak is killed, a little Hilda fil a sound. So you got David it was it was all over. It was a great thing. But he was all over the place. We've lost money, but the Lord is still not still used him.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:07

The Lord, the Lord who still uses the Lord will use us. And I keep coming back. Keep coming back to that, Lord, I want you to sweep from my life. Lord, I repent, Lord of all my ways. I Lord, I just put everything of my life on the table today, Lord, and the world looks at you and he looks at me and it might think that we're lonely and it laughs down the barrel and it looks at us and says he here What are we? Who are you? Who are you but God says, Do you know they are as a king as my son? That's my son or daughter? Lucifer will look down the lens of life and go Do you know what you're an educated you got no money you're in social as in Who do you think you are? Who do you think you are? And then go Go's? gidea Lord, see that? That is that that is what the enemy does. He he trains people to think badly about themselves.

Simon Pinchbeck: 22:02

You know, I've dealt with he uses doubt fear he many, many many men who are coming from that angle people have said words over them and it really it What do you think? Ah, you know, you're never gonna achieve

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:17

you're never gonna do you think you are? What if that is you out there a day?

Simon Pinchbeck: 22:23

What I should we spend a couple of seconds just as close your eyes and say to God, what do you think I am? Who do you think I am? guarantee I absolutely guarantee our you know, to the to the bond. dolla dolla or whatever I would everything. I have everything I am I'll guarantee you God's not gonna say you're my worthless piece of rubbish. You're the one who, who we never thought would achieve anything God's gonna say this. You're a mighty warrior. You're my mind, man. Woman, you're my my son, or daughter. Yes, you could trust me a bit more. Yeah, yes. You could speak to be a bit bit a bit more. Yeah, you know, what, there's certain things in your life that Oh, that was a wicked get. So if you come to me, just come to me, I can use you, if you've come to me, I can use you. And we've got great plans for you. And we're gonna you're you're gonna do an amazing thing. And you know, you might not be leading an international ministry or whatever. But wherever you are called can use Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:33

it's a one to one,

Simon Pinchbeck: 23:34

you ain't gonna get an NBA or CB or not adore, you're not going to, they're not going to roll out the red carpet. But believe me and Evan, they'll be cheering for you. But leave me one AP.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:45

Yeah, gotta be cheering for you. He's got ahead of us and he's prepared, he's prepared a place for us and kind of ahead of you and prepare a place for you. Because your reward is in heaven, not on this earth. Because on this earth, you're gonna have to persecute is coming out here, you're gonna have the dog you're gonna have, you're gonna don't cost your pose to pics. And we do that so easily. You know, we cast what God has given us our blessing. You know, so many of us sell the blessing. God blesses us and we want to sell what God has given us, we want to do the protocol. And when we become that protocol, we go down that route, where suddenly we find that we are laying with pigs, and we've got dogs and mutilated at the flesh, the Scripture talks about mutilated of the flesh, the dogs, the vipers, it talks about the foxes in the vineyard and, and I've got to be careful when God blesses me that I have to make sure that I realize that that is that is my blessing. God has given me this, whatever that may be. And however, it may look to us God has given us this so I cannot allow myself to hand it over

Simon Pinchbeck: 24:55

me or misuse it. Don't

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:57

Don't misuse your blessing. Don't go on. Won't it be careful who you're following? Joseph young Joseph is 70 year old boy with a bit of swagger. fl has looked at the code that has given me. Be careful who you talk to about your blessing. Very careful who you reveal status.

Simon Pinchbeck: 25:16

And I think that's the title of our next podcast is free. We'll move into

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:21

Yeah, yeah. Be careful because the father is blessing you, wherever you are on the left this morning. You are blessed and highly favored. God loves you unconditionally. And whether you're a son or a daughter, wherever you are positioned in this world at this moment, you know God will use you even know that you feel lonely, even though you feel despised by the world, even though you feel rejected and lonely and broken, and lost, God will fix what's got to be fixed. Maybe God is leading you down the path where he wants you to feel that hang on the world has rejected you, but I'm not rejecting you, that's really important that the world will reject us, but Christ does not reject us. Christ will draw us in

Simon Pinchbeck: 25:59

that said, you know, we've got a, Jesus said to me, you know, yeah, unto me all I was heavy laden, and I will give you a rest. And look what happened with the disciples. Ben, you know, you mentioned that scripture acts for 13, which is, which we'll come on to now. Because the disciples they were they were just a rough old guys, when a lot fisherman Yeah, fishermen and, and really, their ministry, when Jesus left and he and the Holy Spirit came down in what day of Pentecost, that's what filled them with the courage and the boldness and, and it says in annex 412, he says, nor is there salvation in any other four, there is no other name under heaven, given among men by which you must be saved and up again. You've got Peter and john. Yeah, they're addressing something called the Sanhedrin. And yes,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:55

they are all of their lowercase

Simon Pinchbeck: 26:59

men, they know the scriptures, and

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:02

eloquent, finely dressed

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:04

like me, I've done some work with Israeli pastors, and they notice scripture,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:09

they find a dress, they can roll it off their time,

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:12

you can't take a step out of line with these guys.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:15

Now, they know they know the Scripture. But there's a difference between knowing it and believe in it. And,

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:22

yeah, so. So here we are, they're here. And it says in Acts 413, it says, Now when they saw the boldness of patron john, they perceive that they were uneducated on train men, so they looked at them and, and these words coming out of their mouth, but these are on educate you guys, hallelujah, pretty much like me and you sitting across, it's more me. I think I've got a couple of a levels somewhere.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:51

I haven't got anything. They haven't got anything. After all I've got after my name is what I've got. I've got points on my driver's license, that's the best anything I'm putting my name to. I've got nothing Simon. Yeah, I've got a title of a Reverend. But that's just a bit of paper, you know, but I've left to go with nothing. I'm dyslexic, I've got all that I've got all that going on. And I love this text that you brought to the table this morning. Because when, when the Holy Spirit fills you,

Simon Pinchbeck: 28:17

when the Holy Spirit fills,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:18

wise men will look at you and go, this is not of them. This is of some, some encounter that God is using these guys this, this is not of this woman, this woman cannot speak this because you are speaking in a heavenly language. This man he he cannot be telling me this stuff. Because he's telling me stuff that no one else sees behind this robe. He is telling me see the robe the way they was dressed the way they would stand the way they would roll certain things off their tongue the way they would address the crowd, they would, they would just walk in certain circles. But suddenly the these two disciples now what's interesting what Simon has said something, they was always disciples because they was called, but when they came into their own, and I'm not referring to their own themselves, when God used them was when the Holy Spirit came upon them.

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:10

When the Holy Spirit came upon them, yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:12

because you, you This is the difference.

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:14

Look, if you look before it, we have Peter and john, just take these two for an example. JOHN, is john ran naked in the outer garden when he went? Yeah, that's right. And Peter came out with all the gusto in his own strength. Yeah, yeah. We'll never leave you. Come on, we'll die for you.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:36

Yeah, when it came on, when it came to it, he shot a lot. But now now there's the whole Holy Spirit for the strength of the Holy Spirit, the different the different characters been in. I think this refers to a lot about ministry. And I'm going to start up this I'm going to start that up. See, there was always disciples, I'll always be a disciple but when God calls you to something, he will put you into an arena that You can only cope with when the Holy Spirit gives you word and clear revelation or knowledge. But I honestly believe a lot of churches are started up on educators. A lot of churches are started up because the Mother Church has a lot of money. We can start a lot of things when you've got money and you've got people around you, but go and start a church with no money. Go and stand in the arena and preach a message to these guys. If you're not spirit filled, isn't it's just always going to be of the flesh. See these these guys were always disciples because Christ called them but that when he went home and the Holy Spirit fell and they got anointing, and it was their time they then God see it's really important to understand is that I've got to make sure that I know what the will of the Father is.

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:47

You said stuff in there but you're really on point near the will of the Father and the

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:51

will of the Father is that brings us back to the Garden of Gethsemane Is he all his background? The oil press? See, I've got to be pressed for oil to flow. And you know, you can't come out of Oxford. I can't come out of university I can't come out of being caught and more by mum and dad's if you're not careful.

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:09

It's the other way around. It's the

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:11

other way around my will. It's my will. I educate I put myself behind this pulpit I've put myself I've built a ministry. I've put myself here. I've I've I've done very careful

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:22

and use very careful, be very careful with the blessing.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:26

Be careful with the blessing because it could take you to a place of pride.

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:30

Exactly. Yeah. And the garden takes you to a place of military because you're on your on your on your face in the dirt. Over not my will I will but your will be done

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:43

ever died. digressing a bit coming off off of what we're not wearing a scripture still. But what comes to my heart is good old Peter when he was locked down between force squads of soldiers is is the scripture says in Acts, chapter 12. It says that his hands were tired. And he was asleep. The night before he was going to be brought to trial. He was between soldiers he was in a dark place. But he was bound. So there might be many of us at this moment that feel that we are bound that we are chained down. But find peace in the ins in this place of where you are bound down. And what I'm bringing to the table here is that God will open the chains, God will open the prison door, God will open that door, because that's what the angel of the Lord did. He came down him struck him on the shoulder and his chains fell off. And that that Angel led him to an iron gate. There are many of us behind bars. And I'm not talking about one's Majesty's pleasure I'm talking about we are in situations where the doors are locked, things are tight, and we are trying to rush. Don't rush, God don't move outside, you might be locked down. Now it's very interesting that Peter was locked down for quite a long time. He was chained down, God will release you when it's his timing. God will release and he released Peter from that place of darkness. When it was God's timing when when God speaks God will release you so wherever you might be at this moment, I just feel this morning that there are there are many people that are just trying to undo the class with the shackles of your own keys. You can't do that. You've got to find peace in your in your insert in this place of stillness. Just hold your place Be still. That's it they still wait upon the Lord. Just wait upon the Lord that great scripture. Why on long wait

Simon Pinchbeck: 33:42

upon the Lord will renew their strength.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:46

Amen. Ron, come on. Listen to what he's saying. Listen to what he's saying. Because there is coming a time when the authorities will see that the shackles that they've put on you will just fall off. He says when the angel struck him on the side his chains fell off.

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:04

A great scripture in Exodus 14 for Come on still. And I will find the logo fight for you.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:11

You will see in one Seattle about his mind says the battle is mine. So there is coming a time where I've got to stand up. And and I've got flexibility in the change to stand up. But when I stand up for Jesus, and when I make a stand for him, chains will fall off religion has changed pastors. ministries have chained people down. churches have chained congregations down, but there's coming a time where I've got to stand up.

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:38

Yes, you've got to stand now I've got to speak for Jesus just like these guys. These two they came that time, it said and it's said they weren't educated on trained common men. And at least guys in the Sanader they marveled.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:54

Then I looked they gaze that and we've we've all there. How can these men be speaking such wise, powerful words, because when God knows God most

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:06

is a kicker. And they realized that they had been with Jesus.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:10

Come on Your time's coming.

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:11

They realize they are being with Jesus. And they went on to plop about, we can't let them will threaten them because we can't let them spread this word

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:20

anymore. So we'll chain them will chain them up will imprison you will persecute you.

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:27

God's timing is perfect. And the deal is this is when God speaks the word. Yeah, this uses his spirit that give it power. That's right. So the word Yeah, spirit. Yes. Is not is you haven't got the power.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:44

Yeah, and got the power. You haven't got the power, they have to be. So together. So at the right time.

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:50

Ezekiel said, didn't the the dry bonds. Yeah, he said is the word. But that spirit breathes life into it. And then suddenly life begins. And I've used this many times, not recently, but smith wigglesworth, a guy that many people

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:11

would recommend

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:12

for great deal in evangelist. He said in only 4070 out of prophecy. Yeah. He said, When churches with the word, churches with the Spirit come together, praise God was gonna be a great outpouring. Yeah. And real revel revelation. Yeah, throughout the UK and beyond. So it's the it's, it's God's Word in you. But that spirit will give that power for you to speak it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:46

That's right out.

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:47

Yes. And the timing is right. As you just said, Ben is critical. The timing is critical. Because if use I know many people that have said up, are going to speak to that person over there. Yeah, they go over and speak.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:01

You're trying to open the iron gate,

Simon Pinchbeck: 37:03

you're trying to open it without a key.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:05

Yeah. And you and it might feel that you're in chains, it might feel that don't don't fight the chains. Don't try and undo what God is about to do. Because God is going to God is going to use your your chained situation for His glory, God will put you in that arena at that particular point. See, if these two guys Peter and john had gone in their own strength and done this in their own time, and they would have been eaten alive, alive, certainly, and eaten alive, but because they went under the authority of Jesus Christ, because they went in the salvation of the Lord because they went in instruction. You're always going to come through, you're always going to QA is going to come through. But if I go at that, at a time that I want to go at, no wonder I keep making mistakes I'm going to be put into I'll put myself in front of the Sanhedrin I'll put myself in front of the learned and they will eat me alive. But if I go in the timing of the king, if I try and undo these, these locks myself, yeah, I might be locked down. I might be in lockdown, but God will open the shackles. The chains will go. I'll give you an example

Simon Pinchbeck: 38:16

of Ben in my life. Our God uses that. The foolish things to confirm that we're, you know, yeah, mess up. My wife. iski gave me a season where I was speaking in prisons and spoke in prison every week. And I was a police officer.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:34

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm

Simon Pinchbeck: 38:36

a police officers would arrest people and put people in prison. Yeah, yeah. I was speaking in prisons. And a couple of occasions. It was like, Daniel in the lion's den, believe me couple of occasions and while not too far from here, Rochester. Yeah, it was a borstel there. And the younger lads were always more difficult to speak to and yeah, this place was full of young

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:02

young lads,

Simon Pinchbeck: 39:02

young lads, mostly black lads from South London, but there's black and white lads black guys from Hackney as well. And I'm standing there, and the waters disappeared. So it was just Neeraj. And we're Yeah, we was just as and they were given more Mike Pat was my mic was up first. He was telling me about his life as a bodybuilder and goodness knows what he's got a powerful destiny but haven't given him powers. And he in the end, he went, I can't I just can't finish this. He looked at me. I was up next. He looked at me and he went, do you already? have gone? Amir? I'm going to speak. Yeah. And believe me, Ben when I'm on my mouth. Yeah, it wasn't me because in my own strength, okay.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:45

Absolutely. With us in the lion's den.

Simon Pinchbeck: 39:47

I would. Absolutely I would. But it was like I can't I cannot close. Close there. Yeah. And we got through it. And at the end, some These guys came up to me and go, if I carry on doing what I'm doing, I you know what's gonna happen to me? I said, Well, how old are you? So that might seem so you want might 20.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:09

Right? You want make it

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:10

you want Mike. There's a thing that this,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:14

this is a class and see, this is really, really important for me. And for anyone that may be in a leadership position as well. Don't go into an arena that you think that's where you want to be. Because if you put yourself into a Marine, an arena or make up a ministry, you will get eaten alive and you'll get burnout. Like Simon has just been telling us very, very clearly that he couldn't have done that in his own strength. He needed a miracle. But that was God placed him and the other guy in that particular arena at that time for His glory. Amen. Amen. And timing is critical.

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:51

The world will tell you pick your battles,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:53

pick your battle that

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:55

we're telling you like God, pick your battles. Yeah, like God pick your battles. And step forward when he calls you out, because then then doors will open. And And believe me, those seats will be sung and the words will be so powerful.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:08

Yeah. I think this is where a lot of exhaustion, exhaustion, and burnout in the in the ministry, where people talk about burnout and wear out is can I say this? Maybe you shouldn't have been in that ministry in the first place. Totally. You're doing something in the flesh. That is a job for a spiritual Colin are not on earthly corner doing it in the flesh. You because I want to be a pastor, I want to be an evangelist, I want to be a teacher and a preacher. If you're going to put yourself into the arena with the Sanhedrin the lions den, you got to know that God is putting you in that place.

Simon Pinchbeck: 41:49

You got to know that when you open your mouth, the Spirit of the Lord is going to use exactly. The Lord is got to put you there. Yeah, you can't just go Oh, I think I'll become a minister. I'll go to Bible College. Because then if I go into that denomination, give me a nice house here and yeah, nice. Nice carry. Now the Lord's got to put you where he wants you. And and what we're saying today, Ben is that God sees you. Yeah, father sees you if you're not unmounted. Yeah, but he wants to see your heart and He wants to see you raise your hand. And if if that happens, that will get his attention. Yeah, I got it. You got

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:35

it. Right. You go. Did you see that?

Simon Pinchbeck: 42:38

Did you hear that? someone calling out for me, is wanting to do it in my strength, not their strength, ego Jesus, have a Java chat to him. And obviously, we can use that man. That's right. It's just where we wanted to be. It'll gaze attention there. That's how we get God's attention. That's exactly Rob's attention with your heart with your heart.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:59

So that brings me on to this conversation that has just sprung out of this. When we talk about burnout in the church, the burnout has happened because I'm in a place that I shouldn't be in. Because if God is God, and he's given me a mission to do, I am not going to burn out.

Simon Pinchbeck: 43:17

You're not going to burn out. No,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:20

no, this is a very fine line. This is a very almost a dangerous road to go down talking about burnout, because we are in a nation when the nation is burned out. Because when you go into flesh, the flesh will get exhausted. When you look at the Prophet that ran after Jessa Bell gave him that message he ran and he fell underneath yet a lady fell underneath the truth. And he prayed the prayer. God in I want, this is enough. I want to die. But God sent an angel. And he strengthened him on water, and a bit of bread and he went for 40 days when God will stroke God will give you less than what your body had it. How can I put this in a nutshell, God gave him a tiny meal. But that meal strengthened driven him for 14 more days and 40 nights to go. When God gives you fuel your go until it's ready to finish. When you go in your flesh. You will be tired, you'll be tired, you'll be exhausted. Yeah, some ministers in ministry, we are seeing a lot of burnout now I could get myself in trouble for this is maybe God has not called you be a pastor.

Simon Pinchbeck: 44:31

As a great point.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:32

Maybe you're not called to men's ministry. Maybe you're not called to that. What is your calling?

Simon Pinchbeck: 44:38

What is your calling? It's It's It's vital. And the thing you spend a lot of people have what you don't what we don't understand. And what you've a lot of people out there cannot believe really, is that a lot of people in ministry don't pray, don't pray. They don't pray. So if you're not praying and you're not hearing from God Because Yeah, maybe you don't want to answer Yeah, because if God says to you, I don't want you there. Yeah, but it's nice and comfortable. I've got a bit of reputation

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:08

on one year there, I don't want you there. See, if God has called you to a ministry or to a set purpose or set calling, he will provide what he will provide energy, he will provide money he will provide, he will open the iron gate. But if I try and open the iron gate, I'm not going to be able to do that. So when you look at these two guys that Simon has referenced here, in the book of Acts, they was not going in their own strength. If they had jumped into this arena with these educators, with these philosophers with the thinkers, they would have torn them to pieces, they would have literally flattened them, they would have flattened them. But when God gives you a word, when God feed you, when God strengthens you, you're not going in your flesh, you are going in the power of the God Almighty,

Simon Pinchbeck: 45:57

you you've, you've just hit it right. And then that's exactly what where it is. And I jotted something down here last night. And, you know, we have to pray about this stuff. We need to get into more prayer, more connection with other, but he's a great God. He's a great God, if you're, if you're in his will, he will direct your steps. I've wrote down our regular steps, you will make your strong gear will give you the words he will give you the strength and you will achieve the He wants you to achieve

Reverend Ben Cooper: 46:29

you will get to that purpose, you will run your run or no food in your belly, you will run because when God fuels a human being, you're not going in your fleshly earth so you are going in a supernatural strength, that overtakes your mind overtakes your natural feelings, and you are going in the power and the glory of God.

Simon Pinchbeck: 46:56

My friend, if you listen to this, if you are in a will of God, if you're in that place where you've come to the garden, you say not my will, but your will be done, Father, nothing can take you from the hand of God, nothing. Nothing can take you from others will fall, people in ministries will fall people in big is not looking for people in big ministries is looking for a heart, the heart of the men and women, wherever they are, whatever street or village or wherever they are, that he's looking for you to influence people around you, and He will give you the word and the thing is, nothing could take you out of God's hands. You know, Jesus said to me and john 10 He says, My sheep hear My voice and no one will snatch them out of my father's hands because me and the Father are Praise God.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:43

Yeah. Nothing, nothing, nothing we show you all around your place, nothing,

Simon Pinchbeck: 47:49

nothing will move you because

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:54

10,000 to this side 1000 to this side, but no harm will before you Why? Because I'm in the will of the Father. Am I an AI? Am I a leg? Or I am am I am I arm? What am I in the body part of the kingdom of God? What is my calling? What is my purpose? See, I'll say it again. We can start a church with money. You can start a ministry with money because it's the business model, but go with nothing. God what you call him Mito

Simon Pinchbeck: 48:28

Cannot you call him

Reverend Ben Cooper: 48:29

what you call him? Ito? What? You know, there are many ministries that have started over and over and over on the back end of an open checkbook of somebody else. Oh, yeah, yeah. So burnout. burnout doesn't exist in the kingdom of God. Now people might go what he's a little bit wrong there. Look at Moses. There comes a point when you got to learn to delegate. That's a different thing. But when God calls you you will run 40 days 40 nights on a bit of bread and a jar of water. You will run you will run on rocket fuel from heaven you

Simon Pinchbeck: 49:05

will run your bill on a Duracell bunny

Reverend Ben Cooper: 49:07

you will be just absolutely stretch. But when I do something of when I start up some I've done this. Listen, listen. And when I mean listen, I mean, I've started things that have collapsed next day because I've done it because it looks good. I've got my site down rabbit holes in ministry and

Simon Pinchbeck: 49:29

often this off spin off spin. Thing is good idea.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 49:33

It's a good idea. Not a good idea is not a good idea.

Simon Pinchbeck: 49:36

I've spent fortunes on stuff that I've bought out and

Reverend Ben Cooper: 49:41

done that bang No, no. See, when God uses you, it will be in your eyesight. It will be at your feet before you've even thought about it.

Simon Pinchbeck: 49:53

And I love what you I love what you say then and So look at you and go, what are you doing over there?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 50:03

Again, again,

Simon Pinchbeck: 50:05

I want you to just really you just get behind me and follow me because I want to lead you where you go in Kenya and stir cloud. Don't look back, don't look

Reverend Ben Cooper: 50:14

back, don't look back that is so so, so important. And that was the same for Peter that was locked down. Peter could not undo them chains. He could have fought, he could have wrestled, he could have tried every trick in the book trying to get out of being locked down. But he went to sleep. He went to sleep. Because he knows that God will open a door. And what's really, really pressed on my heart, all of a sudden, the angel showed up, suddenly, suddenly, his chains fell off. The scripture said, suddenly, the iron gate opened, God does things, suddenly, he doesn't need another spreadsheet. He doesn't need another. Pastors planning a revival meeting next year plan

Simon Pinchbeck: 51:01

to free them, we don't need it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 51:02

He's not going to look at a spreadsheet and say, Jesus is not going to say to his father and go, I say pastor Ben, he, he's programmed me to show up at this event at 12 o'clock on Wednesday afternoon, and I wait for him, I cannot come on God. God is going to save people. God is going to set the captives free. You don't need another spreadsheet. He's not

Simon Pinchbeck: 51:23

gonna say, Yeah, but pastor Ben is only done the first two steps. I got five more steps to go before before we can even invite that person into Jesus. Pastor Ben

Reverend Ben Cooper: 51:35

has commissioned me to start this. No, knowing I've got

Simon Pinchbeck: 51:38

two steps here. And I've got three more five more to go before I can say Jesus coming in.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 51:43

Yeah, we spreadsheet in Jesus to start a revival meeting. We're spreadsheet and then we're planning it. We're planning our God to move when we want him to move. That's how the world works is that the world is a big spreadsheet is a big graph

Simon Pinchbeck: 51:57

that God's kingdom is upside down. It's, it's it's, it got almost suddenly, and he is he said he takes the foolish things he will the world to come. conformed,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 52:07

amen voice. You know, God, God is moving God, God loves every one of you on the other side of this, our voices today. And he has a plan. But you might be in a dark prison, he might feel that there are shackles upon you, you might feel that you are chained down. But God is not restricted. Because man has changed you. God is not restricted because of what governments are doing and restricting you God will open prison doors, he will he will put you into the arena when his timing is correct. You might feel like a Peter and john this morning, you might feel like a Thomas this morning. You might be like a protocol this morning. It's all to do with time.

Simon Pinchbeck: 52:46

So we'll do it God's timing Yeah. And

Reverend Ben Cooper: 52:48

I'll wait and be still. Wherever you are,

Simon Pinchbeck: 52:51

and hope the message has come across this morning that you're not feeling too great about yourself. If you're not feeling that God can use you, then you're in a great place because the Lord is looking at you. He knows your name in his yard. Your name is written in the palm of his hand.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 53:09

Thank you Jesus.

Simon Pinchbeck: 53:10

And he's gonna he's saying how can you I will use you you are more powerful warriors. Yes, me and I will. I will use Give me your heart and I will use you. So wherever you are, the sound of our voices wherever you listen to us in the car or on a park bench or wherever you are. Believe it or not, it's not you know, there's no mine is here and uses God's timing. God's time is God's timing.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 53:39

It's so important time is in his hands. He is the creator of time. He is the the beginning he is the end he is the bright morning star. So we thank God for your lives. And thank you so much for listening to Christian straight talk cuz we just been talking straight talk none right?

Simon Pinchbeck: 53:57

Yeah, yeah. All right, Ben, I just fit on my heart to pray for him and do that Simon just want to lift anyone out out there who really thinks that they're not able to do anything for you are you are Don't let those words creeping into your mind because the Lord is saying stand up. Just give me a hug. Give me a live and I would always use you wherever you are. Stand up. Stand up for me. Stand up against all this other stuff that's coming walk the narrow road, and I will be with you. You will not be alone price go wherever you go. On your computer. I'm your protector and I'm your Savior. So he just give it all over to him. And yeah, and just pray that prayer not my will but your will be done Father, in Jesus name.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 54:51

Amen. Man. You've been listening to Simon and myself on this podcast today. Thank you for joining us wherever you are across the world. #Christian Straig t Talk. And God is with you ha e a great day and by the hand o the Lord always guide you in Jesus precious name, amen. nd keeping the Word of God. G d bless.

Close: 55:10

Thank you for listening to Elim church Swanley's late t podcast. You can find us n buzzsprout Spotify, Apple Mus c iHeartRadio Google Play Alex, mixcloud, Facebook, Instagram nd YouTube.