Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:01

Hello and welcome to elim church swanley, you are joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper for today's podcast we're in. We're in what

Leya: 0:08

were in what

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:09

we're in what we're in the day, the day Oh,

Leya: 0:11

this is the day that the Lord has made

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:14

note this is the day that Boris has made. Nah, nah Come on. Good afternoon Good morning. Good evening yeah

Leya: 0:21

and Good night and good night best after Christmas. Merry New Year.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:25

wherever you are. Yeah, Merry New Year. We're getting closer to that big day. We are here we have a nice cold drink it is so warm in this little room that we are squeezed in we've got coffee we've got Coca Cola

Leya: 0:37

you've got coffee that's not a cool drink.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:39

Coffee is good. I love coffee.

Leya: 0:42

I hate coffee. I know the only person I know that does

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:47

coca cola makes your teeth go

Leya: 0:51

it wouldnt be my first drink of choice

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:53

No water

Leya: 0:54

agua

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:56

agua.

Leya: 0:56

Yeah. of your belly shall road flow rivers of Roman agua

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:01

Agua.

Leya: 1:02

as Ronaldo says

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:04

it's really well, it is so hot. And we just want to say wherever you are today. Thank you for listening to this old ramble.

Leya: 1:13

ramble.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:13

i was going to Say trash. Welcome. And wherever you are, you know we love you. We thank you so much for everybody that listens to these the online church, whether you follow us through the main line service stream, or you follow us on the podcast, we just want to say thank you so much for sharing. And wherever you are across the world, we just want to say thank you is really, really important to us. And thank you again and again. And again. I'm never going to give up saying thank you but wherever you are,

Leya: 1:39

about 50 times in the last 30 seconds

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:42

only word i know any word on No thank you, wherever you are on this world. Have a great day. Good evening, you

Leya: 1:49

are you saying goodbye you literally said Hello, thank you goodbye

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:54

We're in and what is the word that we have for today?

Leya: 1:57

Well, the word that we have to say our discussion our chat, a lighthearted chat is going to be about freedom because is Freedom Day Happy Freedom Day Freedom Day. Was it a think quotes Freedom Day? Freedom Day Hi, it's Freedom Day.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:15

Oh, yeah, not really. I

Leya: 2:17

don't think it really is. Finger quotes freedom

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:20

and everyone knows what we're talking about in the within the UK a good friend leading the leading us little lot of said that on this day. On this time. You will be free

Leya: 2:31

your all free.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:32

No, we're not. Yes, we are possibly maybe

Leya: 2:36

he changed a scripture who the Boris has set free will be set free indeed. Well what a load of Tosh

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:43

What a crazy world we live in

Leya: 2:45

i really control my language.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:48

So difficult, isn't it?

Leya: 2:50

Yes,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:50

we are been really squeezed for the last 15 months it I don't know actually how long it is just felt like

Leya: 2:56

an eternity.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:58

And now we've been given go for it nightclubs are open

Leya: 3:03

you couldn't go anywhere at 1159 you couldn't go anywhere.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:07

And then suddenly,

Leya: 3:08

12 o'clock,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:09

bang,

Leya: 3:09

you can go everywhere and you can hug everyone you want and you can not wear masks anywhere you want and you can be whoever you want and do whatever you want. And there's not going to be any repercussions with regards the

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:25

laws the old COVID laws the at the spiking today. isnt it

Leya: 3:28

Yeah, that's the thing. I don't understand. And this is why I think too many people it just seems like the most ridiculous decision ever is because the Delta figures arising in the country. I'm hearing about more and more and more people in my own life who have had it or are being asked to isolate can't attend work or children in schools and they're being told that they have to isolate because of the bubbles in the schools and I just feel like it's the most premature decision ever.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:03

So it's really important isn't it? language and the way people use that and we're not talking about you know the filthy language we're talking about

Leya: 4:11

language

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:12

language- we're talking about the way people present things and and say things because to me freedom is freedom.

Leya: 4:19

Freedom is freedom, baby.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:20

Yeah, yes. is yes and no is no. That's what the Bible says. Let your yes be yes. And your no be no

Leya: 4:26

also really good song. Just say you know,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:29

oh, yeah, of course. And also the Bible, the Bible says in john 832 and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. So when we look at what's going on around the world, no one really knows anything do they

Leya: 4:43

I think it's the truth. It's in a position where we are able to open things up Don't I know that the Bible isn't political, but I am gonna go there with this.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:52

Yeah,

Leya: 4:53

I believe that this is a con a decision that has been made based on monetary

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:59

Yeah. I think we'll all agreement. Well, most of us agree

Leya: 5:02

i think thats what it's about. It's,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:04

it's about making the economy getting the cogs moving. Again, getting the financial cogs moment,

Leya: 5:10

it doesn't matter about anything else, because

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:12

survival of the fittest

Leya: 5:14

how many people are gonna is

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:15

its very darwinistic isn't it very, you know, push, just just push out, let's just just do it just trample on rows gonna get trampled on. It's just like, the elite seems to be in a different place to where we are. But freedom in the Bible freedom, the word freedom, when Christ says you're free, you are free,

Leya: 5:35

free baby,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:35

and you are completely free. And it says very clearly in Galatians, chapter five verse one for, for, sorry for freedom Christ has set us free stand firm then, and do not submit again to the yoke of slavery. So in Galatians, chapter five years v says, for freedom, Christ has set us free salvation by the blood of Jesus, we are free. So what what I need to make sure is that I'm very firm in my faith at this moment, because if I'm not firm in my faith, my head is like a washing machine. Well, it is still anyway, to a certain degree, because I'm hearing so much decisions going against other areas. You gotta be very careful how you determine things at the moment, because you can feel like almost Can you can I use the word anger? frustration?

Leya: 6:30

I am angry. I am angry

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:31

feel like, Oh, so you've got to be very careful.

Leya: 6:34

Yeah, I'm angry about it. And I feel like the the health of the people that we love, and we know,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:42

yeah,

Leya: 6:43

and we don't know, that we're with, but that we still love because they're our brothers and sisters. I feel like it's been ransomed for the sake of the economy.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:50

Yeah.

Leya: 6:50

And if you look at to Peter 219, of the ESV, it says they promised them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:59

there you go

Leya: 7:00

for whatever overcomes a person to that he is enslaved. And that to me, that that is, you know, what do you what is it that you call your, the the politicians in the Bible, the

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:11

Pharisees,

Leya: 7:16

the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the little Pharaohs are making these decisions

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:21

the law givers

Leya: 7:22

and there are people. There's a lot of people I know that are going to use the beautiful, wonderful, amazing, common sense. And theyir faith in what they know,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:32

yeah,

Leya: 7:32

be true, what they believe to be true. And they're going to continue to make sure that they're safe. And then there are other

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:39

sensible that will just go im off

Leya: 7:41

There are other people that are gonna listen Yeah, and go, well, Boris Johnson can do whatever I like.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:47

Yeah,

Leya: 7:48

but the thing is, whatever you're like, isn't always the right thing to do. Right tools over the poor and the borrower is the slave of the lender.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:57

That's Romans six, verse 18. Says, and you have been set free from sin, that is a most important thing, freedom in the Bible, every word that Christ says every sentence, it is fact it is true, it has happened, it will happen. It's gonna happen, whatever, whatever. Way Because obviously, the Bible speaks in now. It talks about historical events, and it talks about prophecies that are going to come in down the timeline of life. So when Christ says you are free, you are free. Now, the greatest part I think, in when you look about freedom is when Pharaoh and Moses and Aaron we've mentioned this a lot lately from the pulpit, where Moses and Aaron went up to Pharaoh and said, Look, we need to go into the wilderness for three days we need to praise our God we need to have a festival is called a festival. And we want to sacrifice want to praise our God, the God of Israel, and Pharaoh said who is your God. I do not know this God. That's how I feel. That's how I really feel at this moment that we are in a nation that is so far removed from Christianity, where at one time it was steeped in it, and now we've got we've got these controllers that are just it. We like pound coins to them. We just like money. We just like

Leya: 9:19

it is a call in our slang they call money subs. We reall are their subs

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:24

I feel like they just yeah, that they're moving the goalposts all the time. It's not that I'm completely reliant on what they're saying because I'm not but it plays with my mind and

Leya: 9:34

yes,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:35

it plays on my mind it that's the thing it plays that that's how the enemy works doesnt he. I know what Christ has said. And I want the word of said and trying to live, as the Bible says in this nation, I think is the hardest thing he will ever do. Because all you're hearing is this wave of stuff coming up in the morning. It's different look at yesterday, look at the app situation that have how naughty was that?

Leya: 9:59

that was naughty

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:01

And then if someone waited,

Leya: 10:02

they came back half an hour later and said, Oh, we changed our minds

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:05

Yeah, I was trying was pilot in a little scheme we just trying something, we just no dont lie you know what you're doing. Yeah, you know what you're doing is play.

Leya: 10:13

People catching up the the the health minister was found to be guilty, I mean, positive of COVID. And the Prime Minister and the

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:25

some politicians

Leya: 10:26

chancellor said that they would not observe the 10 day isolation that they expect the rest of the countries.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:33

So what we're saying is that one rule for us and another rule for the elite.

Leya: 10:37

Exactly.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:38

And that's what the Bible talks about. It shows that. So really what we've been preaching and studying and talking about, through all the podcasts for everything we're doing, how true is that Bible? Because you can really see modern day, Pharaohs, cant ya, you can see modern day elite getting the slaves which are our US, come on, you know, this has nothing to do with what what slaves might have meant a few years, what we're talking about now, wherever you come from,

Leya: 11:07

we say we pay their wages, but

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:10

well,

Leya: 11:11

we build their temples,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:12

we build their temples. So I do feel and I'm, I'm pretty open about this, that I do feel that, that we are a slave to the elite.

Leya: 11:23

I agree with you.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:24

Do you know what I mean? is quite hard. That's the word today

Leya: 11:27

and 1%, isn't it? That's what they say that 1% of the money that's in the world.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:35

Yeah.

Leya: 11:35

And we're not in the 1%. We're not in a big thing is we're not we are hard hitting. But and I know it's touching on a little bit of politics. But actually what we're talking about is politics that speaks to the heart and does speak to the spirit and does speak to the the faith in all of us, because because of the fact that we have that freedom. We should have

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:57

exactly.

Leya: 11:58

We're not able to help our brothers and sisters in the way that we would want to and people are perishing as a result. That is the truth of the matter. And there are other people that say, you know, well, I'm protected because I'm under God's word. And you know, there's that there's that part that says no plague show.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:17

Yeah, no, no disaster company, you're probably referring to Psalm 91.

Leya: 12:22

Yeah, but

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:24

but also, God does guide us on all levels, what the enemy meant for harm, God will turn for good. Psalm 119, verse five says, out of my distress, I call to the Lord. The Lord answered me and set me free. Only Jesus, you know, freedom spiritual. Not sometimes I feel that the enemy is trying to tie us in spiritual knots. And Christ will set us free so if fear is held you down all this time, just prayed it when I say just, you know what I'm saying? We got to get ourselves in that position of just giving everything to Christ and the frustrations of today and if you've been out and about in the UK, you will have seen quite a few things that look very different, you know, got quite a few people that have like, almost torn the mask off and whatever. It's just I think it's just respectful. I think it's nice to be respectful and

Leya: 13:15

in my mind there's going to be like a Sodom and Gomorrah type explosion.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Leya: 13:21

Like I don't expect to see that in my own little Hamlet.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:25

No,

Leya: 13:25

but I imagine that there are places in this country where people right now preparing a massive drink up, but

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:33

definitely

Leya: 13:34

i don't have anything against people celebrating and having

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:37

a drink. The sins of the flesh are getting ready. That's the thing the sins of the flesh.

Leya: 13:42

Thats the thing it's that is that not knowing where to compromise?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:45

Yeah,

Leya: 13:45

no, no, there's no say no. But can I just bring you going on from Galatians five where you were conations 517 ESV it says the desires of the flesh are against the spirit. Yeah, and the desires of the spirit or against the flesh for these are opposed to each other to keep you from doing the things that you want to do and that's what's gonna happen today. That's what we're talking about in the build up so it's talking about freedom as in the sun has set you free we get about freedom to go to go crazy

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:17

indulge yourself because that's what it is.

Leya: 14:21

The nasty one the lie are speaking in your ear and saying this will make you happy this will make you happy. that'll make you happy, go on drink this until you cant remember your name.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:33

Come on, mate,

Leya: 14:34

that'll make you happy. Go on go and have sex with whoever you want that will make you happy. thats not the truth is not the truth will not make you happy. But what is loving Lord Jesus

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:45

Jesus

Leya: 14:46

I had a bit of a laugh. with your mates

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:48

Yeah, recording a few podcasts.

Leya: 14:50

Oh, yeah. Playing some tunes on the guitar using the gifts

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:56

But what we got is this like we've been held back for How long held back for so long and suddenly it's like freedom are gone to a one

Leya: 15:05

were like a barking dog. on the end of a leash

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:08

waiting to go, you know like a racehorse, just go on. He's out the traps. He's gone. Doing all the nightclubs. He's absolutely stellar our tour, hes fostered it. He's done absolutely everything. pinot gricho is absolutely off his trolley. But he's happy, you know, can come on that can that make you happy?

Leya: 15:26

Can't make you happy. I think it'd be drunk on a word, baby. That's what I want to be I want to be. Remember when I first became a Christian and I was glowimg like the reddy breck kid. I was kind of drunk that I want to be

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:38

Yeah.

Leya: 15:40

smiling at people and people being like, Why are you always so happy? Why? Why is this because of this? field overflowing Mark runneth over,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:50

praise the Lord

Leya: 15:51

because I'm in love.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:53

Yeah, if you're following Christ, you're walking with Christ. But in the time in which we live right now there is a spiritual bondage that is upon us. And the words are very, very powerful. James talks about how the power of the tongue is the smallest muscle in the body is either gonna, it's gonna encourage you or say he's going to pull you down. And what's happening now we've got a lot of words that are pulling us down on wearing is a very heavy spiritual atmosphere is a very heavy atmosphere out there. And it's like, and now we've got the sun's out and the weather's out. The nightclubs are rolling the bars, the eateries

Leya: 16:31

opened at 12 o'clock last night. Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:33

bang,

Leya: 16:34

open to today.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:35

Damn, we're ready. We're in. It's like, given a license, isn't it? It's like this mess, is what you say is really the UK is like a Sodom and Gomorrah. We've just rest. We just dressed it up.

Leya: 16:47

But that's because I think those are businesses that need to stay open. They need to stay open

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:53

We get that we get,

Leya: 16:55

you know, saying that that's wrong. But I think we as human beings are, the flesh is weak.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:01

The flesh is weak. They're weak. sons are barbecues around

Leya: 17:05

temptation

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:06

summer holidays are here.

Leya: 17:07

The cupboard door of temptation has been

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:10

wide open.

Leya: 17:13

party poppers going off

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:17

This exactly what Lucifer does entices people. We've been enticed. Everyone. Yeah, you've been locked down for too long. Come on, come on. landed a beer tap. Come on. You've been you've been you've been isolated for too long

Leya: 17:31

shots you deserve it

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:33

Come on, you know. And it's interesting how music plays a big part of this as well. Because when you can get that music.

Leya: 17:41

dont knock my music

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:42

what

Leya: 17:42

dont knock my music

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:43

I'm not talking about that music. I'm talking about certain music that will influence people to party hard. Yeah. So the devil uses music, we clearly understand that. So music, some drink. All the razzmatazz. You know what I mean? is it's like it is slight Sodom and Gomorrah. We are living in we are living in very hard and very difficult times. People just want to go back to normal but what was their normal? I don't know. Go back to normal. I can't go back to that. And as for freedom, freedom, that word doesn't even exist anymore. freedom means completely free. Well, I'm not free to start with because you know, we're traveling because you got me on the phone. You know exactly our spend money. So I'm not really free anyway, you've got a pattern of my life. So freedom in the UK doesn't even exist that word though. Because if I was free money slay cameras on every corner. Yeah, round about number plates. checked every you know, come on, you know what I'm saying?

Leya: 18:45

I like to sound effect peel. Peel.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:48

is their a little man in them camera boxes, by the way.

Leya: 18:51

Yeah, a little Polaroid camera. He must be a tiny little blue Polaroid camera, but it makes this sound effect. Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:59

I'm gonna have to make sure that he's not looking my way. You know? So freedom freedom in the UK is. never really been here as it really has at one point. But when you look at it now, because freedom to me, doesn't mean what it really means. So wording has changed hasnt it

Leya: 19:17

No. And the thing is, as well is that people will say, well, 50 years ago, we had freedom because we didn't have all these cameras and computers and big brother and that. Oh, no. Let's go back 700 years. So the doomsday book, shall we?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:30

Yeah, exactly.

Leya: 19:31

longer than that longer. Yeah. Let's go back to the original taxes. Yes. Back to

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:36

Yeah,

Leya: 19:36

let's go back. Yeah, you're always gonna find that you were always being controlled.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:42

Come on.

Leya: 19:43

You were always being controlled. There's a really nice. Well, it's not nice, actually. There's a bit of john eight.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:50

Yeah.

Leya: 19:50

And then it says. So, Jesus said to the Jews, who had believed in him if you abide In my word, you are truly my disciples and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. We love that

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:06

we beautifully,

Leya: 20:07

but they said to him, we are the offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say you will become free? And Jesus said to them, truly, truly I say to you, everyone who commit sin is a slave to sin.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:22

Yeah,

Leya: 20:23

the slave does not remain in the house forever. The sun remains forever. Now that's it for me. I said,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:29

we're done. bye bye

Leya: 20:31

close up this envelope. Yeah, look at the post box dawn, send it off. Because this that says it all to me that the slave does not remain in the house forever. The sun remains forever. And we're slaves to so many things in our life. And then the person that is cracking the whip has got the audacity to say Happy Freedom Day, everyone. Happy Freedom Day.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:59

But isn't that what that word that word does not exist within the UK? You cannot use the word freedom anymore. Because back to the back to your mobile phone back to your electronic gadgets or back to the cameras on the streets.

Leya: 21:17

Those things were so willingly slaves to the mobile phone. You've got one. got an iPad.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:23

who hasnt got one. I don't know. Exactly. So we are tracked we are tracked track and trace that freedom freedom does not really exist.

Leya: 21:33

No, not even in the Braveheart film.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:35

It doesnt

Leya: 21:36

a construct.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:37

Yes,

Leya: 21:38

that film is

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:40

a bit too blood thirsty for me. I can't watch one born every minute that freedom so it's quite tiring, isn't it? Everyone you speak to lately is going I'm really tired. I think there's that there's a spiritual exhaustion. And it's affecting the body. Because we're hearing so much stuff coming out of we're going to be okay, that this day, that day, we are going to do it, we will do it Don't worry, then suddenly the goalposts are moved in you, you build yourself up for this, when you've really no it doesn't exist. So when you put your weight in society and you put your weight and culture you put your weight and your thinking on everything of the world of a human being, you are going to be let down I will let you down we will let each other down. So when you got humans making decisions in a spiritual crisis, like you cannot connect because this is the spiritual crisis will

Leya: 22:32

become the Pharisees in the said yes to each other

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:34

They don't, you can't make a you can't make a natural decision with a spiritual issue.

Leya: 22:42

No

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:43

because the two do not do not collide, they don't come near each other. The only way you will find a way out of any crisis like what we're facing is through prayer and seeking God and His pathway his way cuz he is the way the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except for me. We know that through salvation, but when I come to him and I'll walk with Him, even though I'll go through the valley of the shadow of death, Psalm 23 there's a shadow upon me it will not come near me not won't harm me. But I can't escape this nation. I can't escape being under the hand of Pharaoh i cant escape or or what's going on. But what I can do is find complete and absolute peace in the situation with Christ. But if I keep listening to the news and allowing that to give me more weight, but it is so fierce, is so fierce.

Leya: 23:32

its like a tornado you're stuck in the middle of

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:35

it really is you're in a I don't know. It's a spiritual storm

Leya: 23:40

attraction beam.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:41

It really is, isn't it? news is changing so fast. on every level across the world, you've got you've got countries coming against each other, you've got financial issues that we never look at the weather system. Look how fast that weather systems changed a few days ago. It was cold it was wet it were absolutely like a couple of little ice blocks for a bit of liquid on the table. We're not really any being anymore our way we just solidified and

Leya: 24:10

vapor

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:11

vapor

Leya: 24:12

was just thinking was as you were speaking then

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:14

what fancy an ice cream cornetto

Leya: 24:17

i cant because of the lactose or the gludent

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:19

ill have yours

Leya: 24:20

you can have mine I'll have one of them ice things what they call sorbet.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:25

sorbet.

Leya: 24:25

Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:26

naa It's got a

Leya: 24:29

Casper sorbet. You know, I was thinking was

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:32

lets keep it spiritual

Leya: 24:33

One of the things that I really like about the Bible is that it says just believe

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:38

Just believe

Leya: 24:39

and what I love about that is there are no trappings of knowledge, or learning or control. You've said this before, but I haven't got the right suit. Well just believe but I haven't got the right money well just belive, so surely that is the most freeing just The most freedom that we can possibly have is to believe be in a state of, I just believe, no one can argue their way out of that. No one can argue that and say we have a war, we're not being controlled by the laws of physics and you're not being controlled by the laws of the isn't held by my argument, and you're being controlled by No, because I'm free. Yeah, I'm free. Because actually, I just believe

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:24

I just believe

Leya: 25:25

just, I'm free of all of that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:27

So if I can get in that position of just believe that is that is everything to a, to a belief to a believer, a Bible believing believer, but as we looked at, and there's a scripture says, there's this fantastic part of the text where you've got this father, you've got this dad, whose sons got this unclean spirit. And he runs out, you know, if Christ is in town, and he says, please call me says, I know you can heal my son. And what I love about that takes as well in the beginning, he said, I've gone I went to your disciples, and I couldn't do anything. Like Jesus went apples, bring them, bring it, bring it, bring it exactly, yeah, church people, bring me bring him to me. And as Christ is dealing with his son, and there's this great dialogue going between the toe. And the father said, I do believe that just helped me my unbelief. So at the moment, at the moment, I do believe that there is a lot of unbelief in believers. can I explain a little bit more about Doubting Thomas? I think this is the case is because the church broadly, hasn't preached, how to live in a in a crisis, and how to live in the Word of God. And we haven't been taught the Word of God for so many years. When a spiritual storm comes, it froze us.

Leya: 26:49

It does, because I feel like

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:53

because the world is so

Leya: 26:54

controlling our perception,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:55

yeah, the word and the word is so simple. Just make it. So you were saying the word says, just believe. And then you look at what the world is doing is going on. Science is going on. Numbers, it's going on, tries to compile knowledge lies, everything. So it's this great big animal as opposed to this little line that says, just believe. It's like, if you was to have a conversation with someone that doesn't believe that is an atheist, obviously well done Rev. doughnut

Leya: 27:30

its alright trappings of nowledge?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:32

nowledge is dangerous. Knowledge doesn't help really, knowledge can take you down a fox hole,

Leya: 27:38

it can

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:39

theological.

Leya: 27:40

The thing that the Greek philosophers used to say, though, in the more I know, the less I know,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:45

I know. Yeah, you know,

Leya: 27:48

I think that's just like, yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:50

that comes back to what you was saying

Leya: 27:52

the Bible is the more I know, the more I know.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:55

Yeah,

Leya: 27:55

yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:56

just believe it.

Leya: 27:57

Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:57

Because there's a difference between belief understanding and grasping. I can't grasp it. I can't understand it. But I can believe it. What do you mean you don't understand it? I understand it to a a tiny tiny fragment. But if I could understand it as go and go, I've got all of that. It won't be the Bible now. My understanding is limited. Yeah. So God,

Leya: 28:24

I wouldn't be able to see you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:25

we won't be

Leya: 28:26

scales beyond the eyes.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:27

I know we're done for we're finished, have to get a bit of rope. hang on getting a bit serious. Now. cor i know its hot

Leya: 28:34

just proving to you that I listened. I wasnt asleep.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:38

I know you're listening. I know you was listening. freedom. So that comes back to that same little chat we had earlier about. Freedom can only come through Christ Jesus, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free see, isnt it interesting how that word truth. You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

Leya: 28:58

I am the truth.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:00

I am the way the truth and the life.

Leya: 29:02

Sorry did i just take your thunder

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:03

No, no. His Thunder because he makes the thunder and the lightning and the rain. Everything

Leya: 29:11

Shut up.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:12

He does.

Leya: 29:13

Does he make Casper sorbet.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:16

i dont know if hes got a shot

Leya: 29:19

Can I read you One Peter 216

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:22

of course,

Leya: 29:23

live as people who are free. Not using your freedom as a cover up for evil. but living as servants of God.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:32

Now think about that. Live as people that are free.

Leya: 29:35

Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:35

we are spiritually free. But my body is telling me otherwise.

Leya: 29:39

Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:40

Because my perception, my eyes and my ears. I'm hearing different. I'm seeing different and the Bible is telling me different.

Leya: 29:48

Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:49

so

Leya: 29:49

I just believe

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:50

I just believe But hang on a minute. It is the UK is like a washing machine at the moment. Everything is spinning around and it's so fast

Leya: 30:00

ew and its got muddy socks in it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:02

Oh, it's got more than that in it its got

Leya: 30:02

its got all football kits in it, its all muddy got rugby kids from, like, what's that really posh school where all the politicians go to the Pharisees and the Sadducees? I mean,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:17

smelly ones. Oxford Cambridge,

Leya: 30:20

there's one specific which you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:22

dont mention that one, you know, I mean, what the where the princes go.

Leya: 30:27

No the princes don't go there. It's where all of the the former MPs there's a photograph about pass a 10 is about four MPs in this photograph, photograph and they're all from the same college and they're all wearing the same I think they're called the ball scum boys or the ball.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:47

i dont know, this has escaped me this has gone over my noggin

Leya: 30:51

just goes to show that it's all part of some sort of club. This club are elitist and we're all about getting each other into power and it almost seems if I was cynical, I'd say that they were just passing the baton from one to like a relay race

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:08

a relay race

Leya: 31:09

a relay race of class and the thing is, God doesn't like class.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:14

No, no,

Leya: 31:15

god is class, as in like complete last bruv

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:18

exactly

Leya: 31:19

not like his class

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:20

upside down inside out completely opposite

Leya: 31:22

in some way they keep us safe. to what the world is doing. But to be a believer now, in these times in which we live is going to be the hardest thing that you could ever want to do because everything is going against your faith. Everything the word freedom has gone against it and I've never seen in my lifetime the Bible be so pathetic rophetic sorry prophetic as in like you can see this play this picture this this artwork eing formed right before your very eyes that all the Old Test ment is just revealing all this tuff is and it's so much bout Pharaoh it's so much bout control it's so much bout manipulation and and you wi l do what I tell you to do and sn't there's no difference. Th re's no difference and peop e go Yeah, but we are free freed m of speech no we there's no s eech there's no freedom of that whatsoever. Freedom of t avel now there's not you know, w are tracked every second o our journey will they know ex ctly where we are. The system nows how I spend my money. It nows it has a pattern of my life And I'd love to see that pat ern, you know, as they see that pattern because that is con rol. Such a high level going u the shops, you're on a ca era, coming home on the bus, y u're on a camera, you know, y u've got cameras in cars, you'v got cameras and

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:46

Do keep us safe and safe. I agree. I agree. with the safe side of that I agree.

Leya: 32:53

You know, other side of the fence

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:55

and it's needed though, isn't it? We are needed to be kept safe. But that data also in

Leya: 33:01

not if we lived in a Christian world we wouldn't

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:02

true. But we're not, its a fallen world

Leya: 33:05

if we will live in a Christian world we wouldn't need all those things because there would be no crime

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:10

we get really serious is seriousl, people are going to go today Is it them same two that talk about food all day long. Because they have really they haven't laughed at all haven't said anything funny today, they just been like bashing

Leya: 33:24

im to hot to expend the energy

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:27

can hear it in their voice. They're angry,

Leya: 33:30

i am angry.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:31

Were angry podcast.

Leya: 33:32

Yeah, I'm angry but sometimes youve got to get angry.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:34

its a righteous anger. What was that one that I that was the one that I said.

Leya: 33:39

one peter

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:43

hang on

Leya: 33:43

to 16 not using your freedom as a cover up for evil. That's what we're doing when I'm not going to you know,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:50

there comes a point

Leya: 33:51

theres a time for laughter and theres a time for knowing Hang on a minute, this is not right. And all these people are living under the

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:58

law.

Leya: 33:59

The pretense that this really is freedom and it's not freedom. It's somebody saying here's another way to spend your money.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:06

Yeah. Freedom. That's a really massive word. We've mentioned that before. What does it mean freedom to you guys and gals on the other side of this little podcast as we this is a really happy one today. By the way, this is really happy freedom.

Leya: 34:21

If you had freedom. What would you do?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:23

I'd have a I don't know because I don't really freedom.

Leya: 34:29

Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:29

I don't know. What would I do? I think I would

Leya: 34:33

complete freedom completely

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:35

complete freedom.

Leya: 34:36

money wasn't an issue where you are isn't an issue. physical ailments aren't an issue.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:43

Now what I don't know how to answer that, because I've never experienced to be at that sort of level

Leya: 34:49

in this heat, id be laying on a lilo in the middle of some sort of ice cool pool, being handed fruit juice and sorbet

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:59

By Pharaoh, Pharaoh said we're gonna turn it around and

Leya: 35:02

Pharaoh doesnt exist, doesn't exist

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:04

not even in the freedom

Leya: 35:05

not because we're in the living in freedom is living in the truth of Jesus Christ, which means there's no Pharaoh anymore.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:12

See, when I don't know how to answer that one, I don't know what I would do because I've never

Leya: 35:17

there's no social constructs. There's no, you can't wear that. That's far too tight for you. That's a my swimming costume, so that I can get into the paddling pool.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:29

Oh my goodness gracious me.

Leya: 35:33

There's no there's no,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:35

there's no restraints.

Leya: 35:37

restraints of your own to stop yourself from sinning. And you know, you live in you live in by Jesus. So it's not that kind of freedom. We're not talking to Sodom and Gomorrah freedom. But we're talking like you can do anything you want with your freedom.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:51

I can only have to sit and have a think about that.

Leya: 35:52

no one is going to sit and judge you, Apart from the god.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:56

I don't know. Freedom,

Leya: 35:58

read books all day.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:00

No,

Leya: 36:00

pray all day.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:01

Think I'll just walk.

Leya: 36:03

Oh,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:04

I think I just walk

Leya: 36:06

where would you walk to

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:08

kebab shop

Leya: 36:10

thats only Five minutes up the road

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:12

i dont like walking We when you think about that word freedom is there anywhere in the world that is free. No when you really study the word freedom, it can only come from the power of God's word, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free is a spiritual freedom. Because there is nowhere on planet Earth where you have the liberty and the freedom. And those

Leya: 36:40

as well away from your own expectations of yourself and your own commitments that you've made to your family, the people around you, your friends that love you. You know, that's why your own relationship with Jesus and God together as one because they are is so important. Because it's only you that can have it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:04

It is Yeah,

Leya: 37:05

that's why it's ultimate freedom because it's you on your own with your God. In a loving state,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:13

it can only come through the power of the Holy Spirit. Freedom cannot come through humanity. Freedom cannot come. You can't even get free if you got a lot of money can ya, because you're trapped.

Leya: 37:24

No, you can't get anything free. You know, when you get insurance, you can't and they say free

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:29

free

Leya: 37:30

maintain or wallclock or park a pen that's not free.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:36

There's something there. Even with the clock, even with the clock time,

Leya: 37:42

it's not free.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:43

It's not free is it? We are slave to the time to the tick tock, not to the you know, the social media platform. The Tick Tock on the wall, we are a slave to the clock we are slave to the world. I mean, the Bible says slave to righteousness,

Leya: 38:00

a slave to righteousness

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:01

thats the only area of slavery. So this

Leya: 38:06

nature is free to us

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:08

yeah nature yeah

Leya: 38:08

the world that God gave us that but he gave that to us free

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:12

look what christ says about the lillies of the field,

Leya: 38:14

weve gone from freedom to free now.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:15

Yeah. Yeah. Freedom is a very interesting word because it cannot exist in the UK. it cant exsist is non

Leya: 38:22

is the non existent construct. Yeah, non existent. Isn't it? Really when you think of that word? Yeah. Because it doesn't mean what it really means

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:35

you are tied up whatever way you look at that. You are You are chained down whatever the annual so when the Bible talks about you know, the sun and the sun sets you free, it is not referring to you as your in your physicality in your natural walk is referring to your sins and your freedom in your spirit.

Leya: 38:55

Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:55

you are free spiritually.

Leya: 38:57

Yeah, you're free of your sins because he paid the price

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:00

you're free of your past, you're free from the penalty of sin. So

Leya: 39:04

I never thought of it. Of course, it comes for free because he paid for it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:09

that's what I'm saying is what we said the other day from the pulpit. Very, very briefly, who the sunsets free is free, indeed,

Leya: 39:17

indeed

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:18

So when we look at this nation today is this day that is like everyone's laughing and the word freedom isn't really what it means is it? It's a mask over. It's not really it, doesn't it? I don't see why we're using that word freedom because we've never been free. We will never be free. As people. You can only be spiritually free.

Leya: 39:40

Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:40

you can only be free from your sins.

Leya: 39:43

Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:43

that that. So when you look at freedom in the Word of God and freedom in the world, that freedom in the world doesn't does not apply. Because you're always trapped. You are always trapped by society and culture. You're always trapped by religion. You're trapped in every area of life. You are trapped mortgages, you're trapped sofas, you're trapped, you know finance, life jobs, careers, families, in fact, you are trapped,

Leya: 40:11

trapped, it weighs you down.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:12

This is not a downer

Leya: 40:13

no

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:14

but it is. So when you when Christ says you are free, he means you are spiritually free.

Leya: 40:19

free baby

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:20

you are free. So if you realize who you are in Christ and you realize I am free, and then you become free in the world where you don't allow the earthly thing to hold you down to be a slave

Leya: 40:35

can i be a little bit trickier

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:39

it'd be very tricky because we only got six minutes

Leya: 40:40

in there. Ironically, it was during lockdown yes that we found the freedom of the human kindnesses that we shared to each other in terms of im going down the shop. Do you want anything given because life?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:54

Yeah,

Leya: 40:55

freedom to each other? Or being kind to each other all of these things? the restrictions of the world not being open.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:05

It stops us living at 500 mile an hour.

Leya: 41:08

Yes

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:08

it stopped us the word selfish

Leya: 41:11

freedom by going back to it

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:13

going back to what. Going back to what we started I want to go back to selfishness. And that's not because we are really selfish it's because society has made us me me me me me when the Bible is completely the opposite.

Leya: 41:27

I need I need I need I need I need this but what what society is doing you need this because then I get the money for that you need this because then I get the money for that. And then the money for that pays for the power for this and the money for that pays for this. So it's a constant stream up flowing stream of power. And yeah, and a decrease in freedom

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:48

ive gotta get I've gotta get I gotta get so what happened was locked down Come on, we we was literally stopped in this 500 mile an hour speed of life.

Leya: 41:57

Oh, yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:57

And we just hit this wall. And suddenly, I think that we all realized was

Leya: 42:02

that was a kebab shop.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:03

He was open. Even McDonald's shut. Goodness gracious, Me Lamb is always open. The Lamb of God. So we we have hit we hit this wall where we were spending money we was living and doing what you want. We thought we was free when actually we wasn't never free.

Leya: 42:23

Never free.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:24

Now we want to well, not me, but maybe a fair bit of people want to go back to what slavery?

Leya: 42:30

Do you know what that reminds me of?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:31

Yeah, I'm know what you are gonna say

Leya: 42:33

the river Jordan,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:35

the Jordan River, Jordan,

Leya: 42:37

go on

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:38

Come on. Well, what part Are you thinking about when

Leya: 42:40

why have you brought us here? id rather go back I'd rather go back to Pharaoh. That's where I feel that we're at the slaves.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:48

Yeah.

Leya: 42:49

Got free of their shackles.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:50

They have

Leya: 42:51

walked. They've escaped.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:52

Yeah.

Leya: 42:53

And now they want to go back. Why have you bought us here?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:57

Because we are familiar with that slavery, but we don't class it as slavery. We never use it as that because we are we are a slave to the system. We go to work we get up early commute in and all that sort of stuff. Stop for a while. But you can hear the cogs of the industry are trying to get us back to the grindstone as

Leya: 43:19

our servitude is called capitalism or Marxism or whatever social construct you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:23

I think Marxism is a good way to say it is like cracking the whip is is

Leya: 43:29

capitalism. Capitalism is the one that's like cracking the whip work for me. You're my slave.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:34

Yeah,

Leya: 43:34

Marxism is we'll all be slaves together.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:37

Well, I think we've got both. Well, we've got a little percentage.

Leya: 43:42

That was a really bad way of saying it. I'm sorry. I don't want to offend anyone, but it's true.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:46

It's true. It's true. We're trapped in the whole lot. just sell your possessions and gonna learn the field. Or you can't because there'll be a drone watching. You're not free if you're not free. You know, but spiritually, I believe that's why the church is in the crisis. Because it's lived too much material I saw

Leya: 44:10

in on wings of Eagles on wings of eagles.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:15

That's what we need to do. Come on. We're gonna bring this down. We're gonna bring this little fella down. You know, this has been very different today. This podcast. You've been listening to Leya

Leya: 44:25

Jane

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:26

Moore. I and me reverend ben

Leya: 44:29

Leonard,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:30

no mates. You Thank you so much. You know we have gone a completely different direction today, which we normally do, which is absolutely perfect because nothing is scripted nothing is this we just pick one word up and we just talk about how we feel. And we're just being open. We're being honest. This is how we are. This is how we are feeling today. You know, and this is the rawness of this that you're listening to. We want to say thank you to all your podcasts around the world. Have a great day. Freedom Day.

Leya: 45:03

Finger quotes, air quotes your freedom day.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:06

Yeah, enjoy it wherever you are, but there's only one there's only one one.

Leya: 45:11

When you wake up tomorrow, make sure that you pray for your soul

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:15

Yeah, be careful you party animals

Leya: 45:17

there is only one sacrifice that was to set us free.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:20

One sacrifice once and for all. His name is Jesus. He is the King of kings. He is the Lord of lords, you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. Have a great day. Don't party too hard. And remember, Jesus is watching. God bless.

Close: 45:39

Thank you for listening to Elim church swanleys latest podcast. You can find us on buzzsprout Spotify Apple Music iHeartRadio Google Play Alexa mixcloud, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube.