Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:01

Hello and welcome to Elim church Swanley you're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper for today's podcast. Yeah, good morning and welcome. Wherever you are across the earth we pray that you're in the Word of God and you're following Jesus, you're not following the government's you're not listening to what the crazy world is doing. You are in the Word of God and you are trusting the word from Genesis all the way through to Revelation because that's where my faith is. That's where my foundation is, I build upon the King of kings, and the Lord of lords. I cannot take any structure. I cannot take any weight from certain governments around the world because they just want me to comply. And I will not comply because I'm a born again believer in the Word of God blood washed and I have in front of me, very good friend Simon Pinchbeck. And we are straight in with hashtag Christian Straight Talk. And this is so so so important. Are you following the government's Are you following Jesus? Morning, my brother,

Simon Pinchbeck: 0:56

morning, we're very, very strong gamer

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:59

we're in

Simon Pinchbeck: 0:59

and that's great. And it is hashtag Christian straight talk. And Ben, what you said there, you know, every word of it was was spot on? Where are you building your, your pleasure?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:13

Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:13

Open your faith on? Is it built on rock in the Word of God? Or is it built on the words of a man who saying this, that and the other because here's the deal with the government's in a moment around the world, we're not in God's in any international audience. We're not hearing any biblical truths coming out of their mouths. In fact, you know, they can say one thing one day and another thing that the next day they flip flop, and sometimes they're not even flip flopping, they're flip, flipping,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:45

jabbing

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:46

all over the place. So. So it's a great comfort to find, to find the truth in the Word of God

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:56

got to be in the word

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:57

And that's what we're going to talk about this morning. Because here's the deal, you know, we're going to talk about what does it mean to be born again, was born again. It's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:07

what does it mean?

Simon Pinchbeck: 2:08

massive? Yeah, yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:09

What does it mean to be born again? Hand in self over knowing that your Redeemer lives knowing that he died on the cross for me, he's given me a hope and a future What does it mean? But then also, it means I've got to follow him.

Simon Pinchbeck: 2:26

What does he mean? Yeah, because you know, john, free free Jesus was talking to nikademus, was Who was that? a tax collector when he was

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:33

Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 2:33

at the time was only a little fella. I want to get nikademus. And Jesus said, he said to said, no one can enter the kingdom unless they are born again. As a statement, no one can

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:44

no one

Simon Pinchbeck: 2:44

kingdom of god unless you're born again.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:46

so what is the kingdom? The kingdom of God? Is the Kings domain the Kings area, Heaven, the glory of that no one. So he doesn't mention church. This church doesn't exist.

Simon Pinchbeck: 2:57

It doesn't exist.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:58

It exists as we see it today.

Simon Pinchbeck: 3:01

is the deal. See, Jesus was still alive when he went

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:04

he is the church

Simon Pinchbeck: 3:04

when he was he was still alive on walking on the earth when he said that to Nickademus. That's a great, that little passage there and john free, you know, when and then he will go on. And he says, later, john 316, then he, God so loved the world that He gave His only Son who believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. So he's saying that when he's actually walking on the earth, so he's saying that to Nicodemus, unless you believe in the Son of God, unless you believe in me, you you got no chance of being born again, or entering the kingdom.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:40

I think it's really, really important that we have to get a grip on denomination on denominations and the understanding of church. It's all about following Jesus is all about following Jesus, I don't follow a man I don't follow a pastor, I have the encouragers around me. But what does it mean to be born again? I cannot enter the kingdom of God unless, unless I cannot enter church. No, I cannot enter the kingdom of God, I cannot get into that space. No one can get to the Father except through me. I've got to be completely blood washed, sanctified, surrendered, surrendered over to the King of glory, and know that he died for me,

Simon Pinchbeck: 4:26

and is the deal. And so I'm going to ask a question, and I'm going to ask you to only well listen to Yes, wherever you listen to this, I'm going to ask you this question. What? What do you see when you look at a cross of Jesus Christ? What do you see? And who do you see on it?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:44

I see Christ. But in that Christ, I see my sin. I see my iniquities. I see my transgressions.

Simon Pinchbeck: 4:55

What you see Ben is the old Ben Cooper on that cross

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:58

on that cross.

Simon Pinchbeck: 4:58

That's where we you know, That's where we should have been instead of jesus

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:01

Yeah. I see Christ as the figure. And in that I see me. He took it for me

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:09

took it for you. So we you see that old Simon Pinchbeck, that old Ben Cooper

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:13

on the cross the Calvary in Christ

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:17

Galatians 220 cents out then I have been crucified with Christ. It's not either live but Christ who lives in me.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:25

That's a fair old line, isn't it? I've been crucified. You don't? That's not the church language, is it? church don't use that type of language no more.

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:33

You're about loving,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:34

all about love. God is love. Let's embrace everybody who's married everybody. Let's just kiss everybody hug everybody. Let's accept everything. I've been crucified with Christ. Now to the cross of Calvary.

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:49

And when when Christ was was buried, and he rose again with a new live Yes, as fast.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:56

Yeah, these are all just gone

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:58

died for our sin. And he's rose again the same as me.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:01

Yeah. He was whipped. He was beaten. He was spat upon. He was pushed, he was poked. The whipping that he took, the church doesn't preach that the real gospel does it. I've got to I've got to surrender. It's got to be I've got to be crucified. I've got to pick up my cross.

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:22

They, what do they? What do they say that means? Because

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:25

what does that mean? I've got to be born again. I've

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:27

got to be born again.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:29

I've got to believe in the Word of God self

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:31

has got to go.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:32

He's got a diet. I've got daily. Is it? Is it every is it just a one off?

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:38

It's just, it's just a one off. It's sometimes my friends, if you're listening out there, some of the stuff that we're trying to deal with. We're dealing with it hour by hour Anyway, you know, some of it

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:50

one hour at a time, dealing with temptations, dealing with fear, dealing with guilt, dealing with pride, dealing with arrogance, dealing with selfishness, lifting myself up, I'm great, I'm wonderful. It's all about me. When when it is about him, it's about him.

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:08

It's about him and what he's done

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:10

from what he's done freedom

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:11

and what hes still doing

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:12

freedom comes through crucifixion, freedom comes through dying to self freedom comes through, picking up your cross freedom comes from laying down everything

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:22

laying down that old life, the old way of life, the old drivers, the old, the old things in your life that that you accepted as part of your old life that that you didn't care, you know, we'll talk about that as we as we move into this stuff that that you do as it was part of your character.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:48

Yeah, it was it was because the the culture and a society on the outside has allowed me to do that. But actually some things that people engage in, that we might engage in is not actually our real character. But but we have been pushed in a certain direction to, to do not conform to the pattern of the world. We've conformed to certain things we've allowed certain things we've we've adopted a certain attitude. And by doing that, we've allowed ourselves to be drawn into the satanic vibe and the satanic wave that is pressed across there that you can live how you want to live with no consequences you can do and treat people wherever you want to treat. You can be as selfish as you want about it be it's all about me when actually no No, no, no, it's not about me it's not about human beings. It's about Jesus humanism as overtaken

Simon Pinchbeck: 8:40

I think you've made a real good point and what I challenge people if you if if you're living in that way, then I don't believe you're truly born again. I'm sorry, but

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:51

you can't be born again.

Simon Pinchbeck: 8:53

Because you you know you will have convictions were you know he says in in Jeremiah 31 you know God is speaking and he said he said God erases the old stuff from your heart and he starts to write some new stuff right go on there lay your new character now at that time at that time the the Israelites there that the the Ark of the Covenant their tablets are stoned in a and it was pretty much don't do this don't do that live by the law.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:30

The law exactly Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 9:33

but but with with Jesus, given his life out and rising again. Yeah, we don't have to live by the law night because all that stuff all those commandments should be written on our house.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:47

That's right

Simon Pinchbeck: 9:48

as you become a new creation.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:51

Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 9:51

Christ.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:52

Yeah. I've got a die to self. Hang on. Die to self.

Simon Pinchbeck: 9:57

What does that mean? Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:58

I've got die tomorrow. Self. I've got a give over I've got to give over all the fleshly earthly desires of the flesh. I've got to hand everything over. I've got to be crucified lord crucify me. Lord, break me, Lord, do what you got to do to get this selfishness, the pride, the arrogance, the anger, the frustrations, the temptations, everything that the world is telling me I can have. The world is subducting human beings into a lying, evil way of living.

Simon Pinchbeck: 10:35

Well, Jesus, Jesus, when you give your life to Jesus, then then the Holy Spirit comes and lives in you. As, as a temple, he says, conviction starts.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:51

So conviction starts,

Simon Pinchbeck: 10:53

a conviction starts at that old stuff. Now for me, when we're not my Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior and turn them on my back on a lot of stuff. the lust of money that when the love of drink went, swear it left me I don't know, if you're like me, but I would use the F word, you know, very, very freely.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:16

Friday, he talks a Friday a lot.

Simon Pinchbeck: 11:19

And a VNF word before that. Yeah. I would always use that very freely. But as soon as I you know, turn to Jesus, I

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:27

felt the power of God just just in the last year that is a miracle.

Simon Pinchbeck: 11:34

And and when I heard people saying that word, it was like a loud noise then and I don't want to hear it, you know, because it was that you know, so

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:42

the old is gone, the new have come, there are certain things isn't there that that a character that someone that is born again, spirit filled. Now is an interesting reference that we've we've picked up Romans 720 for a wretched man am I when you become a believer in Christ Jesus, when you know that you are saved in your blood water and you got your name stamped in the Lamb's book of life, then your true fight begins. Because you're in the arena with yourself. You're in the arena with the flesh. Oh,

Simon Pinchbeck: 12:12

that's a great way of putting it you're in the you're in the arena we've got so yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:16

the flesh you

Simon Pinchbeck: 12:18

can't hack that can

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:19

they can't hack that. No, because you're fighting your fleshly desire. The temptation The Bible says each man is drawn away by his own lusts.

Simon Pinchbeck: 12:30

Yes,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:31

now that's a powerful line is the scripture says each man is drawn away, can be drawn away easily and entice

Simon Pinchbeck: 12:37

bit of worship leading this morning by the drawing of the flesh, that the excitement of life what the world is offering, the Las Vegas road we were just talking about the narrow path wasn't we earlier had tight this path off. If it's never felt so tight in in my entire life, walking with Jesus, I feel the walls of life rubbing my shoulders is getting so tired, I've got to lose some weight, I gotta turn sideways. So I'll get these jeans even tighter. To pull me in after I bought in the painting on this morning. These jeans are painted a

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:14

trying to make myself look like a church worship leader

Simon Pinchbeck: 13:16

ben You know, Proverbs 37 four tells us if you delight yourself in the Lord, He will give you the desires of your heart but if you don't Delight yourself and not it also gives you the desires of your heart which won't be his desires. There'll be your carnal desires. And you know that Romans seven you know, here we have Paul the Apostle Paul the apostle, the most amazing teacher who's written how many books in the Bible is telling us here is the man who's struggling like mad with the flesh with the flesh. And it's the truth in it in our config when I was a police officer, I thought was a good man. You know?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:01

Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 14:02

I thought was a good guy. But, you know, I would still ramp up an insurance claim, you know, if I needed a new carpet that Oh, a tin of paint is actually a drop back down the stairs. You've been there.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:15

Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck: 14:15

Yeah. im an alright guy. There's nothing

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:15

Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck: 14:15

So and all those other things you know? And I quite often go into tescos or Sainsbury's and pick a sandwich off the shelf drink and bag crisp and paper walk into the cafe sit down eat it not pay for it walk out and then it wouldn't little off was a good guy you know and sort of stuff I did in the police. wrong with the stuff I do. You know. It's only when you were born and convicted. All that stuff. I realized that I know my table and

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:59

It isnt on the table, but then you've got to resist it.

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:02

Then you've gotto resist it

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:03

I've got a resistance, the resistance, the, the drawing the pole there, that we can't escape it because the scripture says, All have sinned and fallen short of His glory. All of sin

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:14

All have sinned. Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:15

And then, and then. And as we said earlier, the scripture also says, so we have one that says, All have sinned and fallen short of His glory. Then another one that really clears home is each man is drawn away by his own lusts. So that every day every moment, it might be gambling, he might be drinking, it might be pornography, it might be my attitude. It might be my unforgiveness, it might be my pride of life.

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:44

Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:44

there's so many things in the bag, that it could be on any one of us that there is something within there as many things within Nickleby, we might be fighting load 10 of us, we might be fine 10 of ourselves. But when Christ comes in, Greater is He that is me, then he there is in the world. I can do all things through Christ. I can I can, I can beat this not because of it, but because of him.

Simon Pinchbeck: 16:10

That's what that scripture means.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:12

Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 16:13

totally.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:13

Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 16:14

I need Christ to you know, it's not many. Right? That's what that scripture means. And here's a visual visual for anybody listening out there. It's like, it's like, when we hand over control. When we invite Jesus into our life, we get rid of all your life. And it's like driving a car. So all of a sudden, we jump out the driver's seat, and we put Jesus as robbers Yes, yeah, I was sitting along, and Jesus is driving and everything's great. And then we come into one of these lust areas or one of these last car park. We come into the toy away, and we go, hold on a minute. Jesus get out of his seat. Yeah, jumping in Yeah, driving this.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:00

That's right. Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:01

just get in the back.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:02

Yeah, I'll have a scratch card. its alright

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:04

a script. I love a rowdy sqillzer she's done. Oh, no.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:08

He tooted me

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:09

pretty girl over there in you know, yeah, my time look at it. On a couple of looks. Jesus, I'm driving his car now. Yeah, yeah. drove around the corner. Yeah. One more time. Jesus, get back in the scene.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:21

Help me Lord. Help me. Help me, Lord. No,

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:25

we got to have Jesus in the driver's seat.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:27

Yeah, all the time.

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:28

That's the way we get to live our lives. But we dumped and pull pulled one of the the, one of the greatest men for Christ to ever live says environment seven out he struggles with that all the time. It's, you know, why do I ask the question Ben? He said, Why do I end up doing the things I don't want to do?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:50

Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:50

not several things that I wanted to, you know, he asked that question. And it's the same for us. And he

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:56

uses a word in Romans seven, verse 24. He says, what a wretched man am I

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:02

what a wretched man

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:03

who will rescue me from this body which is subject to death? Come on church, listen to that.

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:09

Listen to that. So listen, if you're sitting comfortably in church and you think you've got a crack off, and you will fall from

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:17

You are on crack

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:21

Oh, man, it's a struggle.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:23

This is the New Testament writer. I love the way Paul expresses How he. He's putting his him human side straight on the guillotine. He's laying himself straight out there. And he says, what a wretched man, what a word wretched. He can't get any more deeper than that, because that covers up everything. But this man has been called. He is a disciple. He's a writer of the Word of God. Right? And he's the instrument. He's the vessel that God has chosen. If the church chose a person to write God's word it you can't you couldn't do it could they couldn't do it. They couldn't do it. Because look at this man see, and look at this way

Simon Pinchbeck: 19:10

hes persecuted, he sent christians to their death

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:15

He stood at the stoning of stadia. He was a young man, a young man stood and watched. And they laid their coats at the feet of this little chap, as he watched a godly man be stoned to death. Now, suddenly, he writes a wretched man and why, what is that man carrying that the scriptures haven't even told us? Told us? Other things did he engage in?

Simon Pinchbeck: 19:49

Do you know it It, you know, if you're looking at the life of Poland, then Honestly, it must be very difficult to Live daily with the fact that you've sent people who believe in Jesus Christ who now preach in, you send them to the death.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:09

He said and say, you're a killer

Simon Pinchbeck: 20:13

You're a murderer, you've sent them to their death. So

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:15

you watch the stoning

Simon Pinchbeck: 20:17

and and you know that, that your sin has been washed away by the blood of Christ, but the memory,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:23

the memory,

Simon Pinchbeck: 20:24

and the guilt must be sometimes just too much

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:27

because you'd look at, I believe church and religion looks at this and it looks like you're looking at a holy Joe. He's so perfectly so wonderful. But actually, you can't get anything else more lower than the low of what he is engaged in and what he has done execution persecution. Goodness knows what else has gone on in his life that the scriptures don't even write about. But God chose God chose this man that was against him. That was a persecutor, a murderer to write some of the most greatest writings in the world. I've been shipwrecked. I've been beaten. I've been up in sawn asunder I've been whipped up in beaten with a rod nine, nine

Simon Pinchbeck: 21:13

carry orders, Joyce is

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:14

having all his joy,

Simon Pinchbeck: 21:15

and is the guy who's the guard wrote, you know, it's not all of it, but Christ who lives in me.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:23

So this is a character that I really need to look at. Not not, we're not talking about lifting up and idolizing. But this is this is a man a real man. A real man. Not a fluffy, wiped up whipped up Christian that has grown up in a nice, comfortable, I follow Jesus. This is a man that has lived on the wrong side of the cross

Simon Pinchbeck: 21:45

rock really the wrong really wrong.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:50

persecuter out of the way,

Simon Pinchbeck: 21:52

and is a guy also. He didn't sit around waiting for people to give him money he did. He says he's a tentmaker. So he earned his living

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:03

And what about what about? So So why do you persecute me?

Simon Pinchbeck: 22:08

Yeah. And thats what God said to him,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:11

and then later on down the line, and a nice guy and pray for this guy. But Lord, you know what he was doing this? And a nice, be quiet. just gone pray. But then then then God said something that really shakes me a bit. They'll show that he is going to suffer from our word.

Simon Pinchbeck: 22:26

Yes, yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:28

So so it's very clear from Scripture. That what we see in the church within the UK is not this fluffy, puffed up Christianity. If you are a real believer, you are going to suffer in one way or another. Because Because persecution is part of foundational of your faith. So if you are being persecuted, if you've got haters and backstabbers and people around you that are coming against you, and you are finding life very, very difficult. You are on the right path for following and really want to believe you're in a good place. And if you're in a church and not being challenged, and you're and you're gonna live your life seven days a week and still doing what you're doing, and feeling comfortable in that you're not in, you're not in the Church of Jesus Christ.

Simon Pinchbeck: 23:11

I don't believe you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:12

and Are you safed?

Simon Pinchbeck: 23:13

I don't believe you're safe. I don't believe you. You're born again. Ben. I really don't I mean, I because I've met men and women who have been in church all their lives. But yeah, but you know, you just know that, that they haven't got Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. And, and that's where it comes back to knowing the word isn't it? You know, time and time again, on this platform, we say you know, you need to get into the Word of God and use mentioned a scripture there, you can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me and that support word of Scripture that Paul wrote, so I can do all in Philippians I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me. That doesn't mean you know, you can do be this or that no, you can get through this struggles with Christ.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:57

Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna be the believer, you can be the believer that God wants you to be, but the the name it and claim it Church has taken that scripture and used it as a motivational speak and a language that doesn't. So they've taken a text out of context. and they've manipulated for the leaders and the pastors to get their own, end their own gain, to fulfill what they want. But I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me, I can get through I couldn't get through this fight. I can't get through the end of the day, I will make it not because of me, but because of Greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.

Simon Pinchbeck: 24:39

And that's interesting. You know, you you pulled out the story of Paul, when he was on the road to Damascus. Yeah. And so So why have you and it's reported in the Bible that he saw he still had a choice in it. He was there and then you know, he could have he could have said Believe it by the way Yeah, he didn't. He said these words. He said, What do you want me to do for you? And I think we, you know, when we're brought to that situation, yeah, bought those words. Yeah. It like in the garden even, you know not yet my will but your will be done, Lord, what do you want me to do for you?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:21

I think it's important as well to look at

Simon Pinchbeck: 25:24

tension

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:25

what what did God do to him? He broke him.

Simon Pinchbeck: 25:29

Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:29

he broke his character, he broke his pattern of life he God broke and put him to the floor.

Simon Pinchbeck: 25:40

You that's a great phrase you've used there the pattern of life. So when we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we all live in a pattern of life. And that is the old man that is the the old pattern. And look, the God does he raise some stuff, but he puts new stuff on a horse, but you can fall back very easily into that old pattern of life until you say you have to do say no, I've had enough.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:09

I've had enough

Simon Pinchbeck: 26:10

ive had enough of this.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:11

Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 26:11

see, I don't want to be living so close to the fire all the time.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:16

No,

Simon Pinchbeck: 26:17

I don't, because a testing just how far I can go,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:20

the fire is hot, I can feel the heat heat of it every day. And I don't want to get that close to it. I don't want to get home

Simon Pinchbeck: 26:27

to want to look at that image. Or don't want to go a bit further. And believe me, you get to a stage where if you're tired, and you've you know things are happened. If you're not, if you're not on again, you're going to dive right into that fire.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:44

See, you're going to end that fire. And I believe that we live very close to that fire, fire always because because the world is offering us the fire do not conform to the pattern. So the pattern of the world is never going to change. The pattern is going to get more filthier, you're gonna get more dark, you're gonna get more evil, it's got more of a satanic dr Masonic activity,

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:07

the patten is going to get more attractive, but not only is it going to get more attractive, it's going to become more acceptable.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:12

So what does what is attractive? The flesh,

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:16

the flesh,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:17

the flesh, the desires

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:18

of the flesh. And we've we've always said for months and months, we've said, you cannot beat the flesh in the flesh. That is why scriptures like Philippians 413 are so important. You can do all things through Christ at strategy. You can do all things through Christ for Christ and because of Christ,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:36

amen. That's right. It's all about Christ

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:38

and never be in the flesh.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:40

You're never going to be in yourself. You're never going to be

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:42

you're gonna do it in yourself. When you look on that road to Damascus Road. You know, Saul was on that house. He was looking to get letters, he was looking to destroy the church. He was looking to imprison people. He was a killer. He had blood on his hands. He you can't get any can't get worse and that he was living a life he had the money at the notoriety. But what does it say? It says he fell to the floor. So God will break you and take you to the floor. Because he will not allow there come that's where predestination kicks in. You can go and do what you want, when you want and how you want. But when your flesh comes in line, we've got the timeline of salvation, or the calling or the time on your life. It's not because Paul decided to follow Jesus. It's God went bang. He struck him down to the floor. Paul had no intention of following God. No, he didn't. And he was doing what he thought was right.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:43

Exactly.

Simon Pinchbeck: 28:44

He was doing what he thought was lawful. He was doing what he thought he was right. He was persecuting the people that follow the way the people that follow the news

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:52

the Pharisees the Sadducees the log,

Simon Pinchbeck: 28:54

it was their top man

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:55

religion.

Simon Pinchbeck: 28:55

This is a top man

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:57

religion backed this and

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:00

Ain't it ain't

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:01

interesting today.

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:02

Interesting. And it's interesting. When gold goes, I'm not gonna use you in your strength. I'm going to use you and your weakness.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:11

Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:11

i cant use you in your strength because otherwise you're gonna say, Oh, me and Jesus did that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:17

me and Jesus done that, i told jesus that? And he said, You can't do that you can't do that. A God

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:24

is glorified in your weakness. And as we've said many times if you'll come to that place, where you fall on your face and sort of Lord, not my will, but your will be done or just take everything. Take everything. I'll surrender it all to you.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:41

That's right.

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:42

You know, it's interesting. You've got john and Peter.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:47

Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:48

right. is the deal. You know, the Bible tells out of the treasure of the heart, the mouth speaks or doubt, right?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:55

Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:55

Where it was in your heart, the mouth speaks. So it we haven't shown them PR Oh, When they were walking with Jesus, Peter, certainly you know, he was out there when he was out there. I'm not going to deny you ever happened. So

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:12

I'll go prison.

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:14

And yet, and yet when the first challenge comes, he says john ran out. Yeah, naked. He liked his clothes there. He ran

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:22

gone, I'm out of it.

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:24

And then Peter, yeah, denied Christ.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:28

That's right.

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:28

he couldn't even stand up to a little girl. A little girl was saying to him, you are

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:33

you're one of them.

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:34

He couldn't even

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:34

see it or go glow. He said, No, I'm not. It can stand up to a young girl that was just saying, I see you. before you're not talking about Goliath. Army, a IML. Girl, i wasn't there. This is this is where we find where we find ourselves in a situation where a big percentage of the denominations are sitting around the fire been looking at Jesus and denied him across the courtyard.

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:03

And it's so sad,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:05

sitting around the fire, because that's what the scripture says. He sat around the fire breaks my heart. He sat around the fire and he said, I don't know him. I don't know what you're talking about. See? I don't know him

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:18

inside their heart at the moment. at that moment of time there was fear Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:22

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And yet,

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:25

when the Spirit entered him on Pentecost,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:27

wow.

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:28

What do we find a bit later on? They're they're holding court in the Sanhedrin. And people are going, who are these two? time but yeah, they've been with Jesus. And they weren't afraid to in those something different. There's something different,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:42

there's something different

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:43

christ had to die and leave his spirit in them. That's right, as he rose again,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:49

and it's the same for us today. Greater is He that is in me, then he that is in the world is not a 5050 is I am full of the glory of God.

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:59

I mean, you said a few times this morning, I'm Ben, I believe. I believe that you know from the Spirit. And because what is written, I'm going to ask you out there you've listened is what is written on your heart. Is it from God? Or is it in the flesh is if your man is driving your heart?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:20

The Bible says right on the tablet of your heart. Right on the tablet, put the word of God on the tablet of your heart. Put it on your heart.

Simon Pinchbeck: 32:28

That's it. See, see there? There again, yeah, you got the reference to the tablet because that was the law before Jesus came and died,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:37

yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 32:37

but the Bible is now saying put it on the tablets of your heart. So your heart is now the the tablet the law that God is writing on and and slowly you will get rid of you know, rubbish and get rid of stuff and slowly you will fill it with his own

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:59

continuing. You're continually been renewed. You continue to be in we know you can fight as much as you like, but you God will God will have his way. God will have his way if you have a calling on your life. God will have is well you can resist him. You can you can drive as far as you're wise you can go on a holiday like Jonah. But God will get you what God God has you

Simon Pinchbeck: 33:24

sent me How am I going to you don't get them advertised? And should we do it? Three days in the belly of a whale

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:32

throw yourself over board,

Simon Pinchbeck: 33:35

Have you got your passport?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:36

what passport is that I've got? I've got new ones to come our way. Well, the world passport. You know we are we are living in critical times the church within the UK really needs to hold on to God's word. And this will cause a lot of controversy. Do I believe the church the majority of the church has got the Word of God. I believe that it's it's heard about it. It's read about it, but it doesn't believe in it. Because if it believed in it, it wouldn't. It wouldn't be doing what he was doing. And it's not and I'm referring to denominations. But I understand that when you become a born again believer in Christ, living for him is the hardest thing you will ever do live in for Jesus. Being a follower.

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:18

It's the hardest thing but its the greatest thing

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:21

is the hardest. The greatest is the things most rewarding.

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:24

We're getting a we're getting back to that. What you said on the last podcast that me and you did. And it was a great illustration. And I think we should use that again because it's the elevation

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:38

fish.

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:39

The salmon

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:40

the salmon is salmon.

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:42

Because Because those

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:43

the tide of life

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:44

coming down

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:45

gushing

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:46

never before and then

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:47

that they're pushing all the time and that's what the world is doing. It's pushing against us. If you are a believer, we want to encourage you to hold on to God's word. If you are a believer, hold on to God's love. Hold on. To him He is the way he is the way the truth in life and you might feel like that salmon that your your family are trying to push you back your work colleagues are pushing you back even churches pushing your back religion pastors

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:12

and it's God attractive in it, you know it's attractive just to turn your back on that and go with the flow and

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:18

go with the flow.

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:19

You don't even have to

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:21

be relaxing it. You can put your fins up and just sit back and relax and go with a tide.

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:27

let go of your foot. Where's that going?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:30

Where's it going? It's going into an ocean pool that is vast and wide. And then when you get any ocean I could be attacked by bigger animals than me and I'm gonna live

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:43

God's purpose for me because God's purpose for me is to get back yeah is to fight that and and get back because I've got a job for you to do you got to swim upstream The Goddess and

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:54

you got to climb up.

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:55

You'll see many around you going while you're doing that. What you're doing that for

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:00

Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:01

Many will leave you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:02

many will leave. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. What does Jesus say? Come on. Follow me. But hang on. Lord. I got to go and Bury some people. No lord ive just got to go and tell my mom. No. ive just got to go and finish an email No, lord our Netflix has finished like footballs on lord, ill follow you tomorrow

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:20

That's it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:21

No.

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:22

Yeah. Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:23

Come now. There's a window of opportunity window.

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:26

Yes, exactly. Jesus is saying, Oh, God. How much do you want? Nice. Yeah, I really do want me How much? Yeah, yeah, say, Time and time again, we say you know, you, you. You worship with your lips, but your hearts are far away from me. So, you know, it's like that scripture. We said last week where you got the two sons one says, Yes, I'll come and never turn up. Bear one says no one. But then he shows how he shows up.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:55

Exactly. Yeah, I believe that. We're in so far in a book of revelations that the the four horses are out galloping. And there is a short window of opportunity, before we start to see things that we never thought that would see in our generation. And there might going to be found in the arms of Christ, how am I going to be found in the arms of Lucifer, not going to be found we My name stamped in the last book of life or am i going to find myself cast out of his sight forever? Am I going to follow Jesus or am I just going to succumb to the seduction of what the world is doing? The world is very good at adapting people, human beings is very good of, of driving everything by a fear agenda. But the Bible says there is no fear in love. Because perfect love drives out all fear. The love of Christ will drive out all fear, the love of God will drive out or worry and all doubt. And it's not to say that we still won't have moments of anxiousness and doubt. Because that is scripture, we see that with the disciples on with the ones that use to write the word of God, they was human beings at the end of the day, they were spirit filled those years, but they also reacted to their flesh moments as well. So we're not saying that we're going to be perfect every second of our life Far from it. But when you start to be identified as a believer in Jesus, you will start to see who the souls are around you.

Simon Pinchbeck: 38:25

Well, it's very interesting. You said that, Ben, because in when we was having a coffee before we came into the studio, you know, you said that was a three or four leaders that you've met recently. And they were all saying how well the government have done? Yeah. Really? I mean, oh, are we looking at the king's new super close? Yeah, because honestly, I'm looking, I'm seeing a change of decision every single day. I'm saying I'm seeing a change in voice so many lies coming out of our government. Yes. And well, they've been on the algorithm but governments across the world Yeah, are lying to their people. And this is for church leaders saying he's doing a great job done a great job, wonderful job. I'm sorry, but there's no I don't hear anything coming out of of of the mainstream about God at all.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:23

Where's God?

Simon Pinchbeck: 39:24

Where is where well hear it? You know, I don't hear I don't you know, and then and as we said, before, somebody said, Oh, didn't this clutching at straws read it? Didn't someone from the government use a Bible verse? Well, like you said, Do you even the demons know the bible

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:41

and even the demons, the devil, even look at Jesus in the wilderness for 40 days, 40 nights Lucifer quotes the scripture better than the church does at the moment.

Simon Pinchbeck: 39:52

yeah totally

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:52

he grew up he was created by the word he was in them heavenly places. He knows the Word of God. He quoted Psalm 91 in Deuteronomy, he was given the word back to the word

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:04

isn't. He's an imitator an infiltrator. And the thing is, you know, it'll, it'll make you feel good. He will make it feel right. It will make it feel like you're, you may be doing the right thing. But yeah, check it check it with the we say it all the time check it. Yes, true Scripture with the Word of God. What's it saying? And the conviction of your heart if you're a true believer, if you're truly born again, in the heart, what's the Holy Spirit will tell you what's going on?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:34

Yeah, we've got the church within the UK dying. And we got the persecuted church around the world growing. We've got the church that is persecuted. growing at such a rate we've got the church within the UK that is caving itself in because it is choosing to go down the route of being liberal one, and being we will succumb to whatever the government say, and you've got believers that are willing to be shot, you got believers willing to be persecuted, you got believers in certain nations of the world that or that are seen their families taken out, and they won't say no, to Jesus, I will not deny him. But how does the religion and the broad brush a church, deny Jesus in the UK? We might be asking ourselves by the teachings that it delivers.

Simon Pinchbeck: 41:20

Yes, yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:21

What is it believing in what are the mainstream denominations actually believe? What are they teaching?

Simon Pinchbeck: 41:27

What are not teaching from the Bible are they, although they're misusing quite misquote in the Bible, it's a comfort church really, at the moment? It's a it's a, it's a setback, and we'll agree with we'll sit back and we'll agree with with everything that the government is saying everything is a policy church policy. Yes, he's right. Because we're gonna we're gonna you know, go with the flow, we're gonna stick our heads in the sand and we'll go

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:58

We go with guidelines that have been given we go with policies rather than going and going into the Word. I'm going to seek Him.

Simon Pinchbeck: 42:05

And remember this, you know, if you're out there, if you're, you're down on your knees at this moment in time, I know many people if you're struggling, you know, God is not glorified in Australia. He is glorified in in our weakness, and he will use the foolish things of this world to confirm that. If you just call out to Him and stick around and say, Lord, use me and pray like Maddie put some decent people around you. Because, you know, as we come in to lambda, we, Ben mentioned it before, you know, Romans 724, you know, was who will deliver on Oh, Richard man am I who will deliver me from this body?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:42

come on lord .

Simon Pinchbeck: 42:43

And then he says, and in 725 I think you think the Lord for Jesus Christ, he's the one who's gonna deliver you.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:52

Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck: 42:52

And it's not listen, it's not me and Jesus, it's just Jesus.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:57

It's just jesus

Simon Pinchbeck: 42:59

him to glorify his father for you.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:03

Praise God

Simon Pinchbeck: 43:03

you're in, you're in a great place ben arent you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:05

you're in a great place, you know, lay down a feather duster that the church has given you. Pick up the sword, the Word of God, pick up your cross, pick up your cross.

Simon Pinchbeck: 43:16

Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:17

Come on, we've reached it someone's brought us to that place, or should I say God has brought us to that place. We thank you so much for joining us here. Hashtag Christian straight talk straight down the barrel of truth. You know, we lay everything out on the table, my god bless you and strengthen you. Please, please, wherever you are across the world, be in the Word of God. Look at your denominations, and ask the question, does the denomination that I sit under? Does it follow Genesis all the way through to Revelation? Or is it manipulating and trying to bring a different Gospel to my house, the scripture says, As for me, my house, we shall serve the Lord.

Simon Pinchbeck: 43:53

If you're if you're out there, and you're saying, I want to be born again, I want I want this new life in Christ, then, then you can do it. It just is a decision of your own harm. But this might help you just this little prayer may help you just say Heavenly Father, forgive me for all the nonsense and the hurt and all the stuff I've been involved in. I'll turn my back on that. And the Bible says we repent of that stuff. And I accept Jesus Christ into my life, to be my lord and savior from this day forward. Now, we believe if you said that prayer, then then you are a born again, Christian. We're not talking about finding a church. We're not talking about religion. We're talking about enter into relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So that's the end. If you want to want to catch us, you can catch us at Simon at Christian straight talk.uk. Or go catch Ben at the church here.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:51

Amen. We're out of here. God bless. I'll see you soon. Bye. Bye.

Close: 44:56

Thank you for listening to Elim Chruch Swanleys latest podcast. You can find us on buzzsprout Spotify, Apple Music iHeartRadio Google Play Alexa mixcloud Facebook, Instagram and YouTube