Thank you for joining myself Reverend Ben Cooper for today's podcast. Yeah, we thank you so much for joining us wherever you are today across the world. Thank you and welcome world whoever you are Christians brothers, sisters, wherever you are today. We've got Steve with Steve Vela and we are on our weekly podcast and we've just had a bit of a preamble. And he has brought some cracking stuff to the table. I pray that we would have caught it before I press the record button. But Steve welcome.
Steve:Afternoon
Reverend Ben Cooper:Afternoon my friend we're in we got coffee, we got the laptops on. On the table. We are ready to go with laptops. today. We're gonna go deep. Are you ready brothers and sisters? Right, we're ready. Steve is here, we are going to look at a really interesting title. And Steve has given me the title. And it's very clear it is the danger of another gospel or another Jesus. So without any further ado, we are going to listen and Steve is going to read through the Scriptures that he has an evil, as he always does, he will take us in. He will keep us there and he will bring us out in about 45/50 minutes. I'll be quiet today. May God bless you and strengthen you, Steve, let's go.
Steve Valler:Thank you, I'm going to approach this somewhat differently. Normally, it's sort of descriptors are broken up. But I wanted to read all these scriptures out in one go, we've got I've got six scriptures here. And I'm not going to pause to say that it's from where it's from. But I've taken it from john paul, and Jude. And I'll give you the references later so but we do start I'll give you the stage one john for one on two, but I do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God. every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God. Now we know by this, we know, we know him, if we keep His commandments, he who says I know him, and does not keep His commandments is a lawyer. And the truth is not in my mouth that you're turning away so soon from him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel, which is not another but there are some who trouble you're wonderful heard the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel to you, than the one we have preached to you let him be a cursed, as we have said before, net. So no, I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you, than what you have received, they can be cursed. For do I now persuade men or God? Or do I seek to please men, for if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another. This is love, that we walk according to His commands. This is the commandment that you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ is coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourself that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God Who Abides in the doctrine of Christ, as both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you, and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive Him into your house nor greet him, for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. As you would bear with me a little indeed do bear with me. For I'm jealous for you, we got the jealousy for have betrayed you to one husband, I might present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I feel less somehow as the serpent deceived Dave, by his craft, and so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he Who comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit, which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you might will put up with it. For certain men have crept in unnoticed too long ago were marked out for this condemnation on godly men. Turn the grace of God into lewdness and you know, the Lord the Lord and God our Lord Jesus Christ. These dreamers defile the flesh reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries, it Michael the Archangel and continue with the devil, when he spoke, disputed about the body of Moses did not bring against him a reviling accusation but said the Lord review kid, but they speak evil of whatever they do not know. on whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things, they corrupt themselves. Woe to them, for they have gotten in the way of kind of run greedily in the era of balem for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korra. These are spots in your love face, while they faced with you without fear serving only themselves. Why are clouds without water carrying about by the winds, late autumn trees without fruit twice date pulled up on roots Writing waves of the sea farming up in their own shine, wandering stars for whom it is, is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. These are grumblers, complaints, walking according to their own lusts, and they mailed great sweating words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you beloved, remember the words which was spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, how they told you that there will be mockers in the last time, who would walk according to their own lust. These are central persons who cause divisions, not having the spirit. But you will be building yourselves up in the most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ and to eternal life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow, that read very fluently, very clear. coming from different books in the New Testament. Yeah, very clear reading.
Steve Valler:I'll give you, it was one, john for one, and so
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah.
Steve Valler:One john two, three to four. Yeah. Galatians. One six to 10. Yeah, to john one, seven of 11. Yeah, Corinthians 11, one to four. And Jude,
Reverend Ben Cooper:what was really interested in that steve? You can, I couldn't tell where you broke into a different book. How the Bible read so fluently? Yeah. So without bringing the chapter and verse that read really clear, and really beautiful. it gives you a clear.
Steve Valler:It's a theme. It's the same through these three men.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But through these three men, you could unless you was scolding that you knew where the breakpoint was.
Steve Valler:difference between Paul and john
Reverend Ben Cooper:there's a slight difference. But generally, what I'm what I'm trying to say is Yeah, you could you could when you start to break it down, find the different author, but it read very fluent, it does go it flows, and that is so powerful. There's no jargon is there there's no or and then suddenly it goes from it flows. And that clearly tells me how the Holy Spirit is the fuel for these writers, these three different authors write in at very different times of life. Different areas, yes. But bring in the same Jesus.
Steve Valler:JOHN is dealing primarily with the time of the Gnostics significantly, that those didn't believe that Jesus claim as a man, they said that he was a spirit that he you know, it didn't really come in the flesh. john goes through what he says, you know, we handled him we touched him that that which we saw, and we declare to you
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes.
Steve Valler:And Paul is dealing with in the galatian, literally is dealing with the judaizers that come along. The fight is not enough. You've got to do this, this and this. And Jude, of course, is dealing with the whole panoply of false prophets and false teachers. And I'd like to sort of go through, not step by step for everything, but there are three or four things that I'd like to bring out, which are very important for us. It might cause some people to disagree. That's
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that's fine.
Steve Valler:But the why I believe the Lord is beginning to guide the church is beginning to guide the church back to the beginning.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The beginning
Steve Valler:back in the beginning, we have such things as Yeah, when Safire, said, yeah, we we shold. We sold a bit of ground for this nice on a bit grand for that. And they both dropped down date. Yeah, because they liked it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:They lied to the holy spirit
Steve Valler:now. We have never seen that I certainly have never seen that in a church, It might have worked in other parts of the world, but I've not seen it. I think that there are things that God in His Grace has allowed us to continue in. But now he's changing what I think. Over the past several months, I
Reverend Ben Cooper:secret? suppose probably a little bit longer. I've really kind of seen the church in the place where Nehemiah and Ezra were, that
Steve Valler:not secret when Ezra opened the book of the law, and he began to speak it, the people will cut to the quick because they've never heard it before. They knew like Jews. Yeah. But this was the first time that they'd heard the law. And I think to a certain degree, that's that's where we come into now. We're starting to hear things that God has allowed to stay
Reverend Ben Cooper:held back a bit held back held back maybe just from the timing in which we're in,
Steve Valler:because some of the things that are said in here they're they they are very uncompromising. For instance, in the first thing, he says he, beloved, do not believe every spirit but test the spirits with fire of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the water. People get all sorts of spiritual gallons of Freon spurred from that. But because posts, because of Johnny's linking spirits and profits, we are we are to be like the bereans, we are to check out what is being preached what is being said, by people, we have to look at it in regards to Scripture. And if it doesn't line up with Scripture, then we know that the spirit that's behind that person is a lying spirit. It's a deceptive spirit. And these are false prophets. And we can we must go from nothing to not nothing, nothing to do with a top and we just say, goodbye.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Bye bye.
Steve Valler:And don't let the door hit you in the backside as you go out. And that's it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There's no compromise,
Steve Valler:no compromise.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And you said it very clearly. You read the scriptures, and the scriptures are from Genesis, there is no compromises. And it can never be.
Steve Valler:You see, the other thing is that we're john says that, we know that we know him if we keep these commandments. Now, often pixel while these commandments will go back to Leviticus, he was one of the greatest commandment, Jews in the first place. The Angel of the Lord came down and gave it but when he comes as the Son of God, he then cranks out we've spoken about this before, is that he says that it says in the word, you shall not commit adultery. If you look at a woman with lust in your heart, you've already committed adultery. It says that you shall not kill. But if you have hatred in your heart, you have already killed. So we see that this not only does he affirm the Levitical law, yeah, but he takes it to another degree
Reverend Ben Cooper:takes it further
Steve Valler:he takes it further. And so we have to look at this. And we have to consider, am I keeping the commandments
Reverend Ben Cooper:oh gosh steve
Steve Valler:ask ourselves is this is why searching the other week that it's necessary for us to preach the law, we have to know the law to know the sacrifice for the sin. Yep. Which is evident under the law. And the punishment for those that do not accept the sacrifice of Christ.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what you're saying is the old goes of the new the new goes of the old. You so you cannot separate and just say, New Covenant. We're in the New Testament. that. But that's out there, isn't it? Yeah. That that's out there.
Steve Valler:I mean, but when he's on the road to Damascus, yeah. He said he taught from Moses and the prophets he did about Messiah. Yeah. He wasn't teaching from that written yet.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, he wasn't in the arena for writing.
Steve Valler:so thats it And it's this idea, this idea. We're not under law anymore. We're under grace. were under grace because of what he's done. under the law
Reverend Ben Cooper:because of the old.
Steve Valler:Yeah, what he what Christ has done under the law. We are now under grace. Yeah. But if we are under grace, then we must see, am I keeping at his his work in me, affected a change that I can say, I am keeping the law, but it is not I who live but Christ lives within me. So we're not boasting of what we do, but rather what he has already done. And what is the evidence of that? So if we look at those, those two scriptures that I spoke about, if you lust after a woman, yes. Okay. So what have I got a look at the moment? Are there times when I slip? Yes, but what do I say? Mainly? No, I do not lust after a woman. Therefore I do not commit adultery. Yeah, but that's because of what he's done in me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's correct. Right.
Steve Valler:Do I hate? No, I there's no one to hate. And so therefore, I'm not a murderer. I don't kill anyone. So he's done a work in me. So we look at these things. Am I keeping His commandments, and I'm not going to go through the 13 commandments. But the point being is if we look at the 10 commandments are love. Yeah. Do I home? Do I take the the name of the Lord my God invite in vain? That isn't an exploitive or a blasphemy. It's how you relieve as a Christian. You are marked with the name of God. Yeah. Do you bear that name? Where you bring dishonor upon him and if you do, then you're hearing his name in vain? Do I do that? That particular one has to be judged by somebody else? I don't know. We don't know. There has to be from other people. This is one of the very This is one of the very reasons why as Christians, we, we need to come together, because we learn to judge one another. And I mean, in a positive.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, encouraging. And making sure that we are walking, right, where we are coming under sound doctrine.
Steve Valler:And if you say something or do something, then it's up to the brother to pull up. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:I say, Steve, how did you come to that? Have you come up with that? Show me? Because I can't see this. So it goes many ways, doesn't it? Yes.
Steve Valler:So if you look at it from the point of view of a life, position. There's an old saying that you know, how much the Spirit of God is working you when you hit your thumb with a hammer, and there's no one else around? What do you say? Praise the Lord, right? So it's these sorts of essence of the commandments that you're keeping in your life kept? Yeah. And so we look at these commandments. And, again, it's not from a point of justification, no, I'm not justified by keeping the law. I'm justified by my faith in Christ. But as the apostle said, but it is not I who live close to live with me. And you I live, and now I live I live is to the son of god.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So with the power of the Holy Spirit, is Christ who lives within me, not me anymore. Christ enabled me and has equipped me to be able to deal with these big hitting areas of life and over the journey of life. When I hit my hand in private, it won't be as bad as what it was many years ago. I might do it again. Thank you, Jesus. It's, it's a continuum, isn't it? So it doesn't happen straightaway. But for some people, certain things can. But the general rule is that my journey is until he calls me that I will start to be able to deal with things better, be a better character.
Steve Valler:and each of us have these areas which we seek the Lord over, we pray about, we asked him to do. We've spoken about this many times. This is a an ongoing life situation. And we have to keep pushing and seeking God and banging on the door until such time is dealing with those things that are there within us. But that in and of itself is an indication of the perseverance which is laid down in our life, because we keep seeking, we're not satisfied. No, we're not satisfied. Now satisfied whenever we're not satisfied with us with us. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:we want to chain we want to join.
Steve Valler:Yeah, brilliant. Now, Paul then picks up in the Galatians, where he says, I'm marveling, you're turning away. So soon. As I say, judaizers have come along and said, you know, you you've you've got to go through aspects of the law, you've got to be circumcised, you've got to be this, you've got to be there for an aspect of justification. I know, Paul, and there are Jewish Christians today that will maintain actions under the law, but they don't do it as an act as a means of justification. They do it as a means of honoring God. Okay. All right. So for instance, there's a guy out in Israel, his name's Baruch Coleman, he is a rabbi. And, incredibly, he is not a Messianic Rabbi. Oh, he's an orthodox Rabbi that believes in Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow.
Steve Valler:And he maintains a lot of Jewish tradition, but not from the point of view of gaining righteousness, but from a point of view of honoring God God. So for instance, he keeps the Sabbath. Yeah. And he honors what's written about Sabbath. And so it's this living this life to honor God but not signed on justified by my actions. Got Yeah. So and this is where we have to see it. And so when Paul is saying here about turning away from the gospel, the thrust of it was you are looking for righteousness in the wrong place. Okay. You're going towards ceremonial
Reverend Ben Cooper:ceremonial,
Steve Valler:ceremonial aspect of Jew Jewish robotic at to affirm to God right. I've I've been circumcised so that makes me write that Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm done. I'm Ryan. This is
Steve Valler:why like Ronnie goes on about circumcision is if no, you know, if you want to be circumcised, fine. If you want to want to regard fine, but it's not
Reverend Ben Cooper:not going to get you no closer
Steve Valler:no, it's not going to get you any closer. But if you want to do it that way, okay,
Reverend Ben Cooper:but understand why you're doing it. Does it also did it talk about circumcision? circumcision of the heart? Yeah, of a working.
Steve Valler:mean, but that's the point. That's the whole point. Yeah. The heart has to be circumcised. Here's why. He says the circumcision of forgery. Nothing in Christ. Yes. You have to have your heart circumcised? Yeah. You have to have the forcement of your heart circumsised.
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, yeah.
Steve Valler:I'll do I'll get I'll get I'll do a teaching on that one. I'm not going to go into that. why it's called foreskin and so and so. Yeah. Well, it's only indicated. But Paul here, says, Look, I tell you this. Anyone who comes and preaches another gospel, whether it be angel or man, let him be a cursed, and that word they are cursed is anathema. And it is a very, very strong word. And it means one who is dedicated to destruction without remission of sentence. God. You there's no way back. There's no no way back. No way back. If you preach another gospel, another Jesus that hang on.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've never heard it put like this before. So we're talking about those guys that are out there that are peddling a false gospel? Yep. There is no way back.
Steve Valler:Let them be a curse. This is so right. Now, I'm not going to say that God does not allow for repentance. I mean, we've got a situation where Benny hinze nephew, costi Hinn has come out from that, and turned his back on the whole thing what Ben is done, and he's now he speaks against, for example, does. Okay, so there are areas where by the grace of God is at work, but Paul here is very clear, very clear. If you preach another gospel, and you die, whilst preaching that folding to it. That should not mean that you're going down to hell, you've you there's no redemption for you. It doesn't matter what you did before does matter. If you're holding to that gospel, there is no redemption.You are a curse. Yeah, you are anathema.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's a big word to use curse, isn't it?
Steve Valler:yeah, If they go to a different, it's a different word to we're talking about. Jesus became a curse for us. It's
Reverend Ben Cooper:different if it were completely different,
Steve Valler:different words. Yeah. And so when you're looking at this, this, this or cursing this, if you want to start preaching to different Jesus, you want to start preaching the different gospel. That's what you're going to contend with.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So, God, this, this opens up the discussion so far and wide if it's thrown open the barn doors to so much here. So the name of the claim if they if they die, under what they are believing in preaching. That's it. Yes. Gone.
Steve Valler:Yes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's finished. Yes. According to this, according to his it's another gospel, not what Steve says, not what Ben says, according to the Word of God. Yes.
Steve:And the other thing that people have to be careful with, is how you deal with areas of the Bible that you don't like.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That makes me smile, because I think many may have breezed over certain pages. That's not for me today. Lord, I don't believe you'll give up on that.
Steve Valler:I don't accept that. I don't believe Jesus said that. When he did. He did reflect the situation of people that don't believe in eternal damnation. That's right. living hell we read last week.
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah
Steve Valler:Mark he says it free times that one does not die.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The wound does not die. So how is a strong biblical teaching? It's there. Yes, it exists.
Steve Valler:yes, See, the if you if you do enjoy the lake of fire, if you do no judgment, you're taking away a major pillar of Christ's ministry. He comes as a judge.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He comes as a judge, and he died for us. So the ransom has been paid to there's been a price that has been paid. So we don't go down that road. I try.
Steve Valler:And he is the he is the judge. Yes. When people come before him, and he says there's a price to be paid. I know that because I paid him. Yes. You did not accept the price. And now the judgment falls upon you. You're going to hell fire. Its judicial. And if you take away their area of judgment, you're rejecting you're rejecting an aspect of Christ's ministry,
Reverend Ben Cooper:which is a massive, the cross salvation, because that's what it's about. And he's come to say
Steve Valler:bye, Sydney. Yes, it's all linked in there. If you take if you take judgment out, what you're left with you are taking away a great deal of the set where you're You know why the sacrifice of Christ? Yeah. Because basically, if there is no judgment, and he didn't have to die,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, that is correct. So when we say we believe in it, we believe in it in the way because the Bible speaks about it. We don't labor on it. We don't look at it. And we don't give it any airplay. But we understand that there is sound doctrine on that. And I have to come to an understanding that I believe it exists, it is there, because it goes along with Christ's teachings. And that's what Christ has set us free from Yes,
Steve Valler:precisely. And that is you take away the judgment and take your point you guys going to the cross
Reverend Ben Cooper:What's the point of the suffering the rents and the price? One price once and for all?
Steve Valler:It's a nonsense, you end up with a universalism. What's the point is spending these precious blood? Why?
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's a very dangerous area, isn't it? Yes. To to not believe that the hell exists? Or you brush it away? Yes. Because the more would I be right in saying that we're not forgive me for putting in lies. If I if I study hell more and look at hell more, it gives me more of a deeper understanding of of how powerful Christ really is. Yes. It's correct, isn't it? Yes. Because the more you look at that, and the more you study that the more you go into the scriptures, and you understand what it is, then you suddenly say, oh, my goodness, this is this is so powerful, what he has done,
Steve Valler:do you bring a joke about it saved me from my sins? Wow. Okay. But really, what he's done is he saved you from the consequences, the consequences
Reverend Ben Cooper:of it. And then when you look at what the consequences could have been, and still and still are for many people, that so you can understand it. I don't understand it. But you know what I'm getting at. It could be easy to brush that aside. But if I brush that aside, I'm brushing as Steve has said, three quarters of Christ ministry. enormous amount of
Steve Valler:because he's Linked in, you can't separate you can't. I mean, we spoke we spoken about the attributes of God whom we have now. Yeah, you talk about one attribute of God, but it feeds into the other
Reverend Ben Cooper:It flows beautifully.
Steve Valler:And so when you look at what Jesus did, you can't compartmentalize it. It's all one piece. Yes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's correct. I'm not gonna go off off track on this book. I think I told you this story once that I heard a lady Vicar from the Church of England say that she don't believe in the birth of Christ. So if you type in the birth of Christ, the way you came into existence, that is just what what
Steve Valler:a problem. It's like me, you know, I can knock two pieces of wood to get us off. And they should mind me a brain surgeon. I can't. Why are you there? Lady? I want you there.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, absolutely. Throw me. I don't believe I believe in the birth
Steve Valler:of Christ. What what you've picked up on there. You've picked up on? I'm assuming she was the Church of England. 100%. Okay. So the Church of England have licensed her?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes. Okay, give her the meditation, you
Steve Valler:can preach, okay. But they don't go on. Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God Who Abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son, if anyone comes to you, and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive Him into your house, nor greet him for he who grits him shares in easily all deeds. So because the Church of England licensed these people, yeah. They share in their evil deeds. Yeah. Yeah. Whichever Bishop, Archbishop Deacon, whatever it is, who has affirmed this woman's position via sharing in the evil days. So this is why I say when we're looking at this sort of thing, and why I believe that the Lord is beginning to bring us back to the real gospel, the gospel, the way is, we have no time to go down these nonsensical, stupid things. You know, over the years when we've aided a need to fight or cry when you have
Reverend Ben Cooper:different our cross generational failures in a woven and it's the one that when the churches come together, how churches together and yes, just churches together,
Steve Valler:we ended up with
Reverend Ben Cooper:you got everything in the sweet shop together. Yeah, whole thing. You got the whole lot around the same table. Yeah, but you don't sit. And that's what I've learned over the last three, four and four years suddenly, I've realized that this mix, oil and water don't go doesn't work.
Steve Valler:And so we end up, we can end up well, I've got goodness gracious and he Forgive us our sins. But once he brings knowledge of this, we are now responsible. So once he's revealed once is revealed, we're responsible,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and I have a responsibility to remove myself from them from them. Yes.
Steve Valler:And you don't get involved with this inner church nonsense. No, you can't because if you've got this guy, oh, I don't believe that. This woman I don't believe Jesus was born. We found under Goosby Bush, I suppose. It's pathetic, it's banal, then you've got the other guy that you know that doesn't believe in hell. Hell, yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And then others around the table with different slants on what they believe. Yes, suddenly you have no a gospel that is not a gospel. Well, far beyond.
Steve Valler:Yeah, very dangerous. Okay. I think from the point of view, if we look at different areas within the church that, like, promote things, this looks more important than that, and so forth.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's different. That's a different destiny.
Steve Valler:Providing a whole to the whole counsel of God. Yeah, but
Reverend Ben Cooper:when someone blatantly comes out, I don't believe in hell,
Steve Valler:then he's gonna say, I've got nothing to do with him. Good boy. That Yeah, I've got you. I've got nothing to do with me. You're not part of the church. You don't believe in what the Lord Jesus ever says. You're a liar. Because he I'm so sorry, pal. You are me. We actually are on the same platform push off. Yeah, he can push off auto chaotic.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But we're not kin We can't be joined. We can't be joined. We were silo industry. Aereo. Right. But we cannot. We cannot part we can't a joy. You can't alight. You can't bring yourself under that framework. So it's a very churches together. We won't go down that road. Because as you know, we're not such a bag of stuff. But
Steve Valler:this is this. This is what
Reverend Ben Cooper:the scripture is saying. Yes. It's clear, very clear, very clear. Do not be unequally yoked. We're warmed that aren't we very clear.
Steve Valler:I mean, this is where john says, do not receive me to your house nor greet him for your greeting shoes in the old days.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I mean, you can't be any clearer than that.
Steve Valler:I mean, this is one of the things that the old Plymouth brethren used to hold on to okay. You know, they never mixed with other churches. Yeah, I know, Brock break we people. Although he only broke bread with certain people. And they kept a real strict life. People used to condemn him. But that's what they were doing. That's what they were doing. They'll be doing their approval, or you might get Alright, you called originally called. But seriously, Johnny saying here? Yeah. Because this area, whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. Now, as I said earlier, I know that john when he wrote this letter, primarily It was about the dosimetrists. But if you look at this area, do not abide in the doctrine of Christ. The Greek there can mean either the doctrine about Christ yet, or the doctrine or the teachings of Christ, or from from Christ. So they put in doctrine of Christ. So it covers both person Yeah. And his teachings, which we go back to keeping His commandments.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Okay.
Steve Valler:So while john, at one point is dealing with the the Gnostics that those atheists is also dealing with this whole area of the commandments of Christ, yes. Do you Well, if you do not accept the doctrines of Christ, who he is, where he's come from, what he did, where he when he's coming back, and what he's going to do,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, that's it.
Steve Valler:And in everything that he preached, during these time on the surface, if you want to take something and jacket, why you're denying the doctrines from him. So you're one lot of denying the doctrines about him. And while I'm not denying the doctrine joing but from him, yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So this, so now we can see very clearly the serious implications that are within certain denominations at this time, because they are taking out very solid fundamental points. And not, then they're not even they're not even going down that road of of acceptance. They've just pushed that out. We pray about it. And we've come to this heaviness business.
Steve Valler:Recently, the Welsh church have decided, oh, yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the
Steve Valler:Welsh church welfare. So that's why
Reverend Ben Cooper:so I know why.
Steve Valler:The world church have decided that you can have bless we got a phone guide on fire today. The world's Church has decided to go Bless you same sex marriage. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry. You're going
Reverend Ben Cooper:against Christ. You're going against it. That's quite an interesting article I read.
Steve Valler:So as far as I'm concerned, yeah, I can have no fellowship with the church of wire, which is a an Anglican confession. Yeah, I can't. I do the Anglicans. Bless. So same sex marriage
Reverend Ben Cooper:to a degree.
Steve Valler:See, this is the other thing that a lot of Anglicans don't understand. Yeah, they'll see in their church. Yeah. And I don't know we don't agree with with the bishop or the Archbishop or warning the other. Yeah. But when you put your money in the coffer, what do you think he's going to? Do you think you support who you're supporting?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Who you who's who's taken, where you're going?
Steve Valler:The Archbishop of Canterbury ease, wages, you're helping support? The lady Viggo who doesn't believe that Jesus is born
Reverend Ben Cooper:It all goes, it all goes together. So you are partnering?
Steve Valler:You are partnering? Yeah, you are part and this is why it's so very, very necessary. Yes. When God says I know it's in Revelation, but he says coming out on my people because he's talking about destruction Babylon.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's applicable now come out for my people. And you can you can see it so clearly, can't you? And it's coming very fast. It's almost every week there. That is exploding.
Steve Valler:Right? latest one, with the arch bishop of canterbury.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, what's that
Steve Valler:block from the Orthodox Church? The three of them going to give her an answer said let's pray grams and see if we can contact the living now that's silly. Now what they say? What what they said was that they've come together about fighting climate change. And the good old Archbishop of Canterbury says he's eating less meat, and he's not going to drive his car anymore.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Please, please tell me No. saying, Is this what we cover?
Steve Valler:Well, that's it you see. So we we are rapidly approaching the last seven years. Yeah, boys of the egg Christ. And this donor is playing play silly beggars on the slope with the Pope and some archimandrite from the Orthodox Church. I'm not going to write what we're
Reverend Ben Cooper:talking about. We're talking about we save the planet will save the planet impossible. He currently
Steve Valler:says support is a thing, if you follow saving the planet, and their way of doing it. Yeah. And you go and team up with their own Bill Gates was one of their profits. Yes, he wants to reduce the size of mankind, you have 500 million a
Reverend Ben Cooper:ridiculous amount of people
Steve Valler:he wants to slaughter three out of three quarters to save to
Reverend Ben Cooper:save the planet, save the planet.
Steve Valler:And so when you get someone like the Archbishop of Canterbury is a great up. And he says before the Lord and the Lord says Did you know that what they're all bill was talking about? Well, yes, I did. So basically what you were saying in your agreement to slaughter all human beings that I created yet?
Reverend Ben Cooper:It gets out to me, it's why abortions here.
Steve Valler:Yes there before. And all these people in the church yet say we believe that abortion is of God. Now you're gonna have to stand before him and say, am I going to I've killed someone you created.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly right.
Steve Valler:He's ready. You read in what we read in Psalm 51. Yeah, where it says yes. Man's faithfulness
Reverend Ben Cooper:in the womb in the womb. that struck me lightning faithfulness in in the womb. Yes. That that's impossible. We're not we get no but nevertheless
Steve Valler:But nevertheless, if he demands faithfulness in the womb, he recognizes the life lessons
Reverend Ben Cooper:in the life at that point
Steve Valler:yeah, and if you are if you if you think
Reverend Ben Cooper:temporary ocean abortion is
Steve Valler:is God love
Reverend Ben Cooper:we're in serious
Steve Valler:we were back to listening we're back coming back to what we started a different Jesus in a different gospel.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, there's no way hit, humanity can save the globe. We've got the reset, great reset, and then we've got climate change the world is doing the weather is gonna do what it's gonna do. God created it's the end times what we should be doing is concentrating is do you know, Jesus?
Steve Valler:Well, precisely. I mean, you find out what's going on. I mean, polka says, you know, this is reserved for fire.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So it's interesting isn't it other other devil gets us to go down a safe
Steve Valler:planet right at the same time. I know that we ought to be good stewards whilst on the earth but that's a different
Reverend Ben Cooper:thing, isn't it? good steward in good spirits is very different to different from Troy, you're gonna save the planet. Tax. It's all about money. Money is all about money and controlling power. It's exactly what it's about. So if I partner with all this stuff, We know what it means to be a good steward of life in complete. Yes, we're all for helping and looking after and encouraging and being sensible and do what we got to do. But there is a line Isn't that where you can't cross over when you cross over the line, then you start to partner with something that's very satanic that has a different gospel, a different agenda.
Steve Valler:Yes, it is. We've we've discussed this before that we can have areas of Scripture which we don't understand. Yeah, we can have areas of Scripture which offends us. Yes. But we have to live with it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We have to live with it. Let's say after God said, that's it.
Steve Valler:You know how many times you read the Bible and a puncture?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Quite too many times?
Steve Valler:Well, let's see. So what do you do you show arm around this area for a while, you know, this is the Spirit of God working you, you show that there are areas in your life that he wants to deal with. So thank you all.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. You know, and it brings you to a place of peace actually, it does because it brings freedom.
Steve Valler:Yeah, because it takes a young coffea
Reverend Ben Cooper:it takes that pressure. This is good. This is good stuff. Right where we got to
Steve Valler:the area of Jude
Reverend Ben Cooper:because Jude is a book that's not really preached from
Steve Valler:It should be it's a tiny book, so very powerful
Reverend Ben Cooper:smallest book
Steve Valler:but he, he says, He says for her certain men have crept in unnoticed, long ago marked out for this condemnation. ungodly men return the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, to lewdness. And you know, the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ, these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. And he goes on about how is that when Michael contended for the body of Moses? He did not bring reviling judgment upon sight, but said the Lord rebuke. You know how many times I mean, you're an old Pentecostal sort of set site knights, are you your rotten, stinking? What's it an all day long? You know, as they call dimes, and all that. Yeah. Without an understanding. Yes. So the devil is God's devil. Yes. He is on point him in a place of authority, the fact that he has rejected and fallen and fallen what he's supposed to do. Nevertheless, he is going to be taken before God. And he's going to have to give an account of why he did what he did. A God's gonna say, all the time, you were in your foreign condition. You were still under my authority. And you were supposed still supposed to act as I commanded you to act caught. And my people still did not revive you. So this is what dude's getting it. You don't revile the devil? You've got to be careful how you deal with spiritual powers. Most definitely. Right. We spoke the other week about if we have to honor the government employment in place place. Yes. In actual fact, when Paul talks about he talks about principalities and powers, now on one aspect is is we're not wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers. So he's talking about spiritual principalities about, but when he talks about honoring those that have been put over in the world, he calls ours principalities and powers. He says, there is a coming together. There's an act. Yeah. Right. And so when we look at those people who have been put in authority over us, like they're all Boris and so on and so forth. We have to we can argue about Yeah, we can say that we disagree with what he says. But we can't revile him. ,
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, no, right. We can disagree.
Steve Valler:We can disagree. And we can have our opinion. He might be off his nut, that, you know, the point about it is that you don't you don't bring a reviling judgment against you. No. So we have to be careful how we deal with the spiritual authorities, as much as how we deal with the the human authorities.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's about being respectful as well, isn't it?
Steve Valler:Yes. Because Don't forget, it's God who put Boris in his place. We might think he's out our vote. But Daniel,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Daniel, but
Steve Valler:very clear,
Reverend Ben Cooper:very clear
Steve Valler:God rules in the kingdoms of men. Yes. And he rises up, are we willing to give it to the least of men
Reverend Ben Cooper:So God has put everyone in the position of authority? Yes, regardless of where we take the box, yes, regardless of anything
Steve Valler:he uses, but his or he is, it's already pre placed, pre planned. It's done. I mean, it's like Joe Biden is there because God wants him there.
Reverend Ben Cooper:God put him there. And the reason
Steve Valler:he's putting him here I think is so that person you know, is rather got stand by itself, but the Americans will always be there. He will not support Israel. Not in one pace. Oh, Wagner would not. And this is the this is the old Biden or the Obama Biden
Reverend Ben Cooper:coming together.
Steve Valler:It's Obama's third terms, that he will not support the Jews. So they have to stand by themselves. They have to stay up on it says
Reverend Ben Cooper:Why? Because he says, so when she says in the Scripture,
Steve Valler:so God has allowed or he is so right, Joe Biden is going to be placed there. And when I was watching a book called don't is it there's a fella called Don Stewart works out of Calvary Chapel were jackets, and something that he picked up one of these teachings of about four or five years ago, the other night, I was watching it. And he said that, and he was talking about the fact that there's going to be no superpowers. Yes, I am. When there's that there's going to be no involvement of a superpower to support Israel at the time of the gold, gold, my god war.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what we are seeing then,
Steve Valler:is exactly what we've got. And he's saying, I don't know what's going to happen to America, but something has to happen. And four years ago, he didn't know that this was going to happen because Trump was in charge. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But from now on now. So the scriptures, so the scriptures can be fulfilled. Yeah. So we're saying, so when we've got
Steve Valler:this idea of cursing, cite, yeah. No,
Reverend Ben Cooper:no, no, you
Steve Valler:don't keep away. You don't curse principalities. No,
Reverend Ben Cooper:no, is not under our authority whatsoever. But the No man climate, the Pentecostal, whereas the evangelicals have taken the scripture out of context. They've adopted it and adapted it and share it.
Steve Valler:Yes, I do science under my feet with the reason Satan is under your feet, is because you're seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Amen. Not because you're walking around,
Reverend Ben Cooper:not because you are demons, because you are a Super Dragon Slayer.
Steve Valler:It also heavenly places in Christ. Hi, Leanna up. Amen. And so all things yeah. are under around. Paul talks in one of these letters where he talks he has he got people for taking one another court for each one of the curriculum that is Oh, yeah. And he says, Yeah, don't you know that we will judge angels? One of the terms of that is Do you not know that we will rule over angels? So there will come a time in the future? Where we will rule over angels? They will do our bidding. Yeah, because we are the bride of Christ. But we're not there yet. We're
Reverend Ben Cooper:not there. But there's a lot of people we cannot go around telling you what to do. But a lot
Steve Valler:of these loonies, this is what they done. Yeah, I've got free angels are telling me to go there or no, now I'm sending to me, Aaron center. Do you think you are? Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But the word makes it pretty clear that on that subject, that as I speak, the word the word is put to flight? Is that correct? as the best way to put that as I speak the word? Like, if you looked at Psalm 91, God will command his angels concerning you to lift you up, if let's go not that God, but that's not man.
Steve Valler:Somebody says, where it says, you know, humble yourself under the mighty hand,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yes, the devil, and he will flee. So daily is
Steve Valler:humbling, to find the mighty hand of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Not that I have got the authority to say, right, Michael, you're going over there today to deal with this. You're going over it?
Steve Valler:No, no, no, no, no.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So there's the classic example of wrong teaching, completely complete coming out of what we are talking about. Shotgun
Steve Valler:with different goals at different
Reverend Ben Cooper:gospels, but all the time we are under the gospel of Jesus Christ. We just focus on him. Yes, we're not to worry about principalities, we're not worried about just
Steve Valler:Am I live in for Jesus is the other thing with regards to principalities and powers and, and the cosmic craters in the heavenly places. And then it talks about the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, then suddenly everybody gets into this boy's very spiritual warfare is in spiritual warfare itself, because there's no biblical reference reference for it. And so if we remember is casting down arguments against God, what is it that we're supposed to, we're supposed to preach the gospel, we're supposed to find the Bible. We're supposed to teach the Bible, we're supposed to come against these, these ideas that come from sex that come from psychology that come from the world, that come from everything that is not of Christ. So we are where the weapons of our warfare is. The gospel is the gospel. That's it. It's preaching the gospel, teaching the Word of God, seeking God in prayer, but seeking God not binding site
Reverend Ben Cooper:now, but how what massive percentage of over the years that the church in areas have been completely off their rocker. I mean, in that area of what we're talking about, so much airplay, they give him so many books and
Steve Valler:I understand the area of exorcism, I understand Eric koston at demons If we if we look at the way Jesus dealt with it he said come out of it didn't get into one of these, you know, I bind john cast you
Reverend Ben Cooper:out and all of a sudden it becomes a ritual that is very satanic on its own. So
Steve Valler:when they come out same as Paul when that woman Yeah, pious and spirit was coming Yeah, these are men have the most high goal. Yeah, you know?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Okay we all for a while didn't he? And then he got angry and angry. So I'll come out of that. And that was it that guy finished. There wasn't another 100 my contention.
Steve Valler:You know, I I recognize who you are, you are the second you are and I find you in the know Jason McCarthy get out
Reverend Ben Cooper:that you get out or that's the end of in the name of Jesus out out. And at the end of
Steve Valler:it if we're going to go in and direct confrontation of evil spirits and demonic powers. And again, this
Reverend Ben Cooper:is an area.
Steve Valler:Yeah, we have to know the difference between the difference between fallen angels and demons and evil spirits, you know, we have to have a great pop. Well, otherwise we're gonna we get all sorts of crazy situations.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We get into church stuff.
Steve Valler:But the point being is that our I know that there are people that are violently abused in satanic ritual.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It definitely is
Steve Valler:very, right. And I know men like Russ, Rusty star and America. And people like Wilfred Wong, who's been arrested recently on Sunday he was he was set up I think he was certainly he's been arrested. These men were dealing primarily with people that are being trafficked in sexual, satanic rituals. And they're being abused is a huge amount. He said, Oh, you know, there's a lot of it that people don't want to talk about. The old. There's a lot of people that are in the hierarchy and the elite
Reverend Ben Cooper:that are connected.
Steve Valler:Yes, yes, they are, without a doubt. And so you have if you're going to go into that, you're going to make sure that you know, you're being directed by God into it. And you better know how you can speak what you can speak
Reverend Ben Cooper:and to whom you can speak, because the authority and the power that is behind that satanic Dr. s. And how many times have we heard in the certain areas of culture of churches, I believe you should ever look in and God is calling you to deliverance ministry? Oh, no, he's not. Either. That is an area, isn't it? of where you have to be cold and very clear.
Steve Valler:And very short. There's a sense whereby every Christian at some point can be used by God in there. Because we walk in your sorority, as the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. What we cannot do is operate in that authority without the commandment without the commandment.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But we have it. But we have you work
Steve:in a hospice. Yeah. And you know that there are people that are in not only physical, but mental
Reverend Ben Cooper:death, Misery. Without that, yeah.
Steve Valler:You cannot go in here and start now trying to cast out some not you harnick
Reverend Ben Cooper:aspect that's correct.
Steve Valler:Other than God guide you so to do most definitely. You can't do it. No. We have to walk according to the Spirit. We have to be led by the Spirit. We have to understand what the Spirit is saying. All these things with regards to these kind of ministries. They are there. They are necessary. And people do them. Yeah. But you have to be called into it. You have to be called into it. It's like any ministry, you have to be called into it. You have to know your colon, you have to know you. And quite often or not, we see these ministries that are labeled as deliverance that there's always money involved.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, and that is what we're talking about peddling that.
Steve Valler:This is what he goes is Wolter them for they've gotten in the way of kind of run greedily and error by violin for profit.
Reverend Ben Cooper:My Paying for prayer money. I've heard that so many times stay this has been a really great this has gone we've gone we've gone 55 minutes in right crumbs, you want to bring this to her? When are we?
Steve Valler:We sort of come to a good point of stopping. There's a huge amount of there. But it's up to us as Christians to understand the heavy white duty. Yeah, that lies upon us. To hold to the gospel of Christ, to preach the gospel of Christ, and to preach no other and to be open to an Lord. I say this as a prayer right now. Open to review congest if we go down the wrong road,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, bring me back. Bring me back. Bring me back to the true God. Easy to end up is Dave. Isn't it going in the wrong direction? Yeah.
Steve Valler:We can all end You know, any one of us any one of us, none of us, none of us are perfect. No, no, no, every single one of us need the guiding of the Holy Spirit. You see, it's like when you read the Bible, we've spoken about this before, there's only one Bible, we do not have a Bible on the shelf says, Oh, this is this is for a barren Christians who don't really believe, and this is the Bible, the Bible for real Christians. Now, it's we have one Bible. And so if we're going to read that Bible, there are certain things that need to be evident in our life, praise the Lord, one of those things is we need to be born again. That is necessary, no need to be led by the Spirit, we need to be taught by the Spirit. But at the same time, again, I come back to this area of one of the reasons why they want to shut down the churches is because it's very, very important for us as Christians to meet, to talk to discuss the word to understand what different things mean, what they don't mean. Yeah. And, you know, to chastise and rebuke one another. That's not the only one on our road. Of course, this is strong language. Yeah. Because it's meant to be at the same time, you know, brother, I think he's saying things.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. How would you want to go? You've got a wrong understand this if you try and see it this way, or that? So if you're separated? Yeah, that's, that's a major,
Steve Valler:you're in a dangerous place. So it's very dangerous country as in America, they can't find churches that preach the gospel of Christ. Wow. And so they're by themselves. Now, I believe that God will keep them I've got no doubt about it. Because they can't go anywhere. It's not a case that they want. They can't
Reverend Ben Cooper:they can't they're nowhere to preach the gospel.
Steve Valler:No, there's people up down culture, they can't find churches that I mean, over the years, if I look back at the number of churches in the area where I live, which is down in areas that preach the gospel. So many have gone, you're not there anymore.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, you're right. econ. Yeah, not there anymore.
Steve Valler:I mean, my wife and I were discussing this business. The other No way. If we go back to 1980, was it might be 1970. I can't remember 1980. Something. We admission to London from Louis palaeo. Oh, yeah. Grind machines? Yeah. And there was supposedly 1000s of people gone forward. And I've made a decision. And reminder, Joyce and I sat down. And we were talking about this the other night that if it was so successful, why is the church in such a crisis? Yeah, I mean, this is 30. If it was so it really was a move of God, then we've got to see the evidence of that in church today. I don't see we don't see it. I don't see it. Look back at that thing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Where did it come from
Steve Valler:yeah you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:who was fueling it?
Steve Valler:Not necessarily was fueling it. But perhaps it was man's understanding. Yeah, that was behind it. But I know, it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:what was the agenda?
Steve Valler:Yeah. I mean, Lewis plow was a man that really what really loved God, and he wanted to serve Him. And He preached along the finish line, you know, come and make a decision. And he had 1000s and 1000s of people each to write out, you know, so many 1000s of people have, have made a decision. But many of it just didn't carry through, in fact, salvation
Reverend Ben Cooper:now get that.
Steve Valler:And see, these are the things that we have to we have to be very, what's the word? We have to deal with this in an uncompromising way, we have to look back on not condemning Louis palaeo, not condemning anybody who was moving in preaching the gospel. But we have to ask this question, what was the result? The fruit, what was the fruit? And if the fruit really has brought us to where we are today that we don't have these 1000s we don't have we have to go back and think well, what on earth was around? What was all that about? What
Reverend Ben Cooper:are you saying for that? What can we learn? What is What is it? What can we learn? Yeah. What can we learn from this? Yeah, and it's it's, it might be uncomfortable, which might seem that definitely nasty, but I'm not now. You know, I'm asking a serious question. And that is that that is the power of the gospel to be able to come let us reason together. Yes. Let's talk together. What what how do you get to this position? What is the scripture you're using? And what what can we learn? See,
Steve Valler:I believe that there were people saved.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah.
Steve Valler:All right. I don't believe that nine those 1000s that everybody said it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I do believe you are right. There was people save lives were transformed by God's grace, but then as always, it gets elaborated. Yes, we've had this we've had that we've had one leg grow over here, we've got over there. It could almost be human nature, couldn't it to extend To try and make it sound more glorious and try to elevate when actually even if one got saved.
Steve Valler:That's beautiful. You know, we had 10,000 people come forward. We had three people site which one was sharp. Wow, that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's true. But that is church today. Yes. Yeah. It's always jackin the figures up. Yeah, it's always trying to hype. Yeah, get more bumps on to get more bums on seats we've reached. We've reached it. We've reached it. We're out of here. You've been listening to Steve Allah. And we thank God for his life and his ministry and his Bible teaching. And we just thank you so much wherever you are. Across the earth today. We bid you Good afternoon. Good morning. Good evening, wherever you are today. Steve will be back in the hot seat next week, if the Lord Terry's and we have with us. And we will see you very soon. Thank you very much. God bless.
Close:Bye bye. Thank you for listening to Elim church swanleys latest podcast. You can find us on buzzsprout Spotify Apple Music iHeartRadio Google Play Alexa mixcloud, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube.