Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:02

Hello and welcome to Elim church swanley, you're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper for today's podcast. Good afternoon world wherever you are today we welcome you across the world into this little recording studio. And as we record this podcast, we thank you to all the listeners around the world but buzzsprout and Spotify and Apple play and all the different platforms that you're downloading this stuff from we welcome you, we thank you. We have got stay with us today we're back in the arena, we are going to be listening to our brother that is going to just open up this word today I really feel that God is going to move powerfully through this and the title of this podcast is be careful or be aware of the roaring lion. Steve is gonna open this up, we got the New Testament scripture, we got the Old Testament, Steve will give us the reference and I'm going to hand straight over to him and we pray that God will strengthen his voice and will hold us up in his hands and we thank God for his life and his ministry. Steve, good afternoon component.

Steve: 1:00

Good honor. And everyone. If I start coughing Forgive me. Yeah, I've been a bit under the weather for a while now. By the grace of God we get through,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:08

amen. Here we go. Okay.

Steve: 1:11

There are two scriptures is equal 2223 28 and 1.251 211. And these, as we read them, they're a counterpoint to one another. But regarding the net more after we read it, so yes. And the word of the Lord came to me saying some men say to her, you are a land that is not cleansed or rained on in a day of indignation. There is a conspiracy of her prophets in her midst, like a roaring lion tearing the prey, they are devoured lives I've taken treasure and precious things. They've made many widows in the midst of her. Her priests have done violence to my Lord, and have profane my holy things. They have made no distinction between the holy and the profane. And they are not taught the difference between the clean and the unclean. They hide their eyes for my service, and I am defined among her princes within her own like walls, tearing the prey by shedding blood, and destroying lives in order to get dishonest going. prophets have smeared whitewash for them, saying false visions and divining lies. saying, Thus says the Lord when the Lord has not spoken.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:31

Gosh, that's, that's a, that's a heavy,

Steve: 2:34

and in the Peter, in one Peter, therefore, I exhort the elders among you as your fellow during witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker, also of the glory days to be revealed, Shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God, and not for solid gain, but with eagerness, nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. When the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfolding crown of glory. younger men, likewise be subject to your elders, and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Therefore Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He might exalt you at the proper time, casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you. Be a sober spirit, beyond the alert, your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. But resisting, firming your face, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish To him be Dominion forever and ever.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:00

Amen. Powerful text through very powerful Old Testament New Testament. Very clear about the elders in the flock. So this, this is very relevant, isn't it? Oh, yes, absolutely. right on point on time, right. My eyes are open. And as I'm looking at this, this text and Peter, very interesting how God has given you this text at this particular point in time. Steve, take us in Well, if I'm

Steve: 4:29

right, I might be wrong, but if I'm right, I think him roaring lion only appears twice in the text. Let's do it the CQ Amen, Peter. So it's necessary for us to look at these and look at this area of the roaring lion. And if we look at the Esequil text, it talks about how it is it's the false prophets who are the roaring lions or the like a roaring lion and oh, It's a conspiracy of profits. they conspired together, and they have devoured lives. Now how does a prophet devour a life? Well, he, he tells them lies. Yes, he doesn't speak the truth. He doesn't own a god. Today we have prophets who are no profits at all. If we look at the true prophets of God, through the major prophets to the Minor Prophets, whilst in and amongst their prophesied, there are encouraging words. No prophet had the Ministry of making people feel better. No, every prophet had the Ministry of establishing God's word. And basically shaking the people awake, you're shaking the priesthood awake, shaking and false prophets awake and bringing a judgment against them.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:57

It's interesting to what we see and are labeled today in the world of church and what goes on the prophets that we hear about today are the complete opposite to how scripture describes and how it says the word of the Lord came to us and we think quite a few times that they didn't want to deliver it they're not gonna listen and listen

Steve: 6:23

I mean, I saw a man running clean lips i'd well amongst the people you know, and it wasn't until the cold touched he slips he felt okay on Miko mining me Yeah, you know and you got a masa was a shepherd. You I mean, you go back to Gideon Gideon I love Gideon, you know dearly was hiding on the threshing floor and the agent turn up seven mighty man of God. And I always get this kind of impression is Gideon looking around

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:54

on the least release.

Steve: 6:57

Compare that to the latest nonsense that came out from Kris vallotton. From Bethel, apparently, Jesus appeared to him whilst he was in his bath. And he laughs from us, and he said, You're a great leader. Yeah, okay. You know, please, Could someone point me to any text in the Bible where God says you're a great leader? Again, apart from that one here with Gideon and Gideon say anything yourself and I've got to write blank Yeah, me Sure Sure.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:31

It's a complete opposite to what we have today. The profits that we see today are big in themselves are very much and the profits of old are no i doing it. I ain't going Jonah I can't do that I'm running I'm gone. Me as Steve said Gideon said I'm the least in my clan made

Steve: 7:51

even to bear on Elijah at the end towards the end of his life you know Lord take my life I can't do it I can't do it anymore I

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:58

can't do so it's all so what we see of the old the rule true prophets of God it's not about them and their ministry it's the opposite. I don't want to deliver it I'm going to do it I don't really want to do

Steve: 8:11

now they weren't all resistant. I mean, you got people like Daniel forth right? Yeah, but they didn't compromise the Word of God that

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:19

was no end it wasn't about them. It wasn't about them. No, it's not what it was. This is what God is saying. This is it. And that was it. That was the end of it.

Steve: 8:30

I mean there are Jeremiah like didn't like him at all. I chucked him in

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:33

Yeah, he got

Steve: 8:36

chuck them in and they come in to win a wooden sword or wooden solver grind.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:40

Goodness gracious.

Steve: 8:42

You know what he's playing on a daily? It's a fast run.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:46

Yeah, it's very wrong.

Steve: 8:48

That point in the race is, you know, you've not taught them the difference between what is art clean and unclean. What is holy, and what is perform everything to die with the modern prophet is

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:59

profiling. Yes. Yeah, correct.

Steve: 9:03

There are prophets around I do believe that. But there, I would suggest that they are unknown to themselves. I would say that the prophetic word without really

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:16

without realizing what they're doing what they're doing. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And they're not on that they've not put themselves on that platform. I am a prophet. They are just sharing and speaking God's word. Yeah, it's very prophetic.

Steve: 9:33

It's a it's always a word of warning. He always is a word of warning. Yeah, but also at the same time, but if you will return is always God, you know, always puts that he named any what you read through all these EQ, they, there's, he bounces it out. I'm going to judge you. I'm going to I'm going to scatter you I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that but but, but, but, and yeah, but it Brilliant. What Peter speaks about here, again, he starts avoiding exalt the olders among you. And to shepherd the flock, Shepherd the flock,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:16

through what we need name,

Steve: 10:18

there are too many false shepherds out there. Yes, quite willing to sacrifice the flock, raise the shepherd. If he is really called of the Lord. He has to lay down his life for the sheep as Christ laid down his life for the sheep. Exactly. It's a necessity. You see, all married men in Christ are called to lay down their lives. For their wives. Yeah, right. Yeah. Every single one of us Yes, in some way. We have to do that. Yes. Now for the shepherd. If he's really called, that's what he has to do. He has to lay down his life, to the exclusion of everything else, because it's ministering the gospel. And at the end of the day, no matter what else we do on the surface, if we are ministers of the gospel, that's the only eternal aspect. That's it. It's that I mean, at the moment we were facing this it does make me laugh. We've got this crisis in this country about you know, we haven't got enough lorry drivers. Well, isn't Australia's I got exactly the same problem in America.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:29

Oh, wait, you know, suddenly

Steve: 11:32

suddenly, all the lorry drivers have abandoned their vehicles on water.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:37

Why? The same amount?

Steve: 11:40

Well, having the same traveling Europe everywhere you go, these are global problems. We're going to come Bonnie in the next year, we will probably be paying double for our gas and electricity

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:52

we probably will be.

Steve: 11:56

It will all have a knock on effect on our, onto our food and so forth. And what have we got we still all but we return it and all we could all go on holiday to Spain again, this is all nonsense.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:06

Yeah, it's like a bear in our heads. Not not looking at what really? Or is already actually blindness. Is that Is there a blindness out there where, where society is just not really engaging in what's going on,

Steve: 12:21

but the left side, and they want some way to ameliorate their fear drink doesn't. I mean at the moment that I mean, they're even putting out adverts for Christmas already for crying out loud.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:35

I bought some sweets last night, Christmas sweets, but this is their app. This is our

Steve: 12:41

Christmas puddings and all the rest. And people want something to, quote lift their spirits

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:47

to alleviate the true life issue. There's

Steve: 12:50

gonna come a point where you can't do anything, it will

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:52

crash. Yeah, all right.

Steve: 12:56

For the Christian, it is absolutely necessary. Were you talking about under on a Bible study last night about perseverance. It's absolutely necessary to understand that whatever we're going through, as a Christian is determined by God. You know, he takes us through these things, so that we will persevere. Your faith has to be tested. You have to be tested. And it's not something that we should be afraid or isn't something it's something that we should welcome

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:33

because it's written It's expected

Steve: 13:37

it's written in it's expected but one of the reasons I think it's it should be welcomed. If we go back to the False Prophet for too long the false prophets have said, you know, everything will be okay. It's all it's all. Yeah, roses in the garden and stuff like

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:52

that. Management is amongst you know,

Steve: 13:54

if you want your people say, I want my face to grow, okay? Then your face will grow when you're tested in the crucible of faith. If we look at the three Jewish children that was thrown into the baby, I wish I could remember their real names because that's a derogatory term, but it was renamed after the false gods of the Babylonians. As I said to the king, our God can wreak rescuers, even if he doesn't he still god

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:27

yeah, that's that's true. He says that they say that deny, even if he chooses not to. We are still

Steve: 14:34

we are still he's and he's still God. And that's what aligned the Christian has to come to you. We one of the reasons. We're living in times that many people think are exciting, okay. We can we can take that. But we live in times of great testing and great Trier and it's hell You as a Christian, respond to the trial and the test and the response? Is your response. When your response make you go and follow off to the false prophets, who often can give you nothing at all? Or will you listen to the Word of God? If you listen to the Word of God and be grounded in it, then he will give you the strength to carry on. Yeah, no matter what you have to face, you will go through it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:30

There's no other option is there? Because we can't judge the life or death at option? Yeah, is that there's no way when you look at an either or in the old or the new, the characters that God used, they all went through, yes, severely went through. You mentioned the Prophet about being cut and torn to pieces. He, you know, that's not a way that I think I'd like to finish. But was there. There's nowhere is there thinking quickly that someone had a glorious end. You know, even Christ, and were, you know,

Steve: 16:11

without because his kingdom is not of this world, because the kingdom is not of this world.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:15

So I need to clearly understand that through my own life and a big percentage of my life I need to endure, I need to press on. There are trials,

Steve: 16:24

this insurance comes from God, right? It takes you through the trials, yeah, to make sure that your insurance is if we go to Romans five, from Romans,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:34

chapter five.

Steve: 16:44

Pick it up in verse one, therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace, in which we stand, and we exalt in hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also exalt in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance, and perseverance, proven character, and proven character, hope, and hope does not disappoint. And this is the point it is the thing that God takes us through these Yes, to build up this. He doesn't ask us to persevere in our own strength.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:21

his empire, he can't do it. You can't do it. No, you can't do it.

Steve: 17:25

He does not ask us to persevere in our own strength. And he like, lays it down in ingyenes, which he referenced yesterday. And also in here. That God, the David said, he needs trained, he trained his hands for war. David, fight the lion and the bear. Yeah, so that he could face Goliath.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:47

Okay, right. I'd say yeah, that there's a scripture. I've been up for such a long time. He was his hands were trained for war. No revival. No, he was pure war in its root form. Yeah. But you had to go through the early stages of that young shepherd boy, young man coming through the bear and the lion. So he was trained and scored and ready for this big Yes, enormous test. Yes. Cool.

Steve: 18:21

So this is and this is what God does with us. And he cuts the cloth to suit the needs of each person. What you go through, why don't I go through another person? Why yes. Because God knows our character. He knows our weaknesses. You know, where we've come from. He knows where he wants to take us. Yeah. So often people become fearful. I mean, I remember years ago, people in one of the fellowship want us never asked God for patients, because you'll really tease him. But it doesn't make any sense. I can't trust God. Trust

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:54

is an answer. So as they saying, You can't ask for patience when you can also partially speak, but you're the all end up going on and you will end up suffering because you're

Steve: 19:04

saying that, but if I can't trust God doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't make any sense. I mean, if you're trying to get away from trials and testing, well,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:14

you I gotta have never gonna No, no, not gonna be steadfast in him. He will keep you in the trial, he will give you the insurance. So we're on. I don't like to use it. But we're on a win win, win, we will win, even though we're going through, we will come through. We just keep in the word. And even though there's a lot of roaring, a lot of false stuff out there. We keep in the Word of God, and we endure, there's a noise. There's a noise out there. There's a roar out there, that

Steve: 19:45

roaring lion, the devil what he does, he will. When it comes to temptation, many people think that this temptation comes along, or you know, I don't tempt to sin the i doing something I should, but temptation also comes by walking away from the Lord walking away from the truth. Yes, this is what we go back to, with regards to the false prophets. This is what Peter says, you know, be careful of this roaring lion, because what he's going to do is going to start sowing false hood. Again, yeah, that chapter starts off. Look elders, when you look after the flock, yeah, you've got to look after them properly. Because this roaring lion will come along, and he will sow dissent. He will bring untruth. JOHN Sargon. Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:36

So, so where you're, you're picking this text up, it says, Be shepherds of God's flock. That is under your care, watch over them, not because you must, but because you are willing, Yes, very much as God wants you to be not pursuing the science game, but eager to serve trust in the Lord. So we have a roar out there of falseness and all the areas we know. And as the shepherd, the shepherd has to protect, and to bring sound clear, Doctor as he does, and as that comes from the pulpit, and from the teaching and from from whatever form that may be, that builds up the flock, yes, that strengthens them, very simply. So that lion outside that false noise, cannot grab them and entice them and take them away. Know, what

Steve: 21:35

you've got in a moment that they are the roaring lion, I would suggest is found places like Bethel elevation church and an unknown climate and all that law. That's where the roaring lion is. It's a lie. It's a distinct, it doesn't honor God. You got people at 36 I know I am God. I mean, America, bless FEMA. You've got people like, Copeland I mean, he's made so many false declarations in the office of a prophet. I mean, seriously, if anybody listens to him, they've got to be they've got to be completely sold out to that

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:11

you get caught in this delusion this lie you get swept in don't you? We had this at work. I've I've been there I've I got caught in it. We've all had it

Steve: 22:21

at some degree. we've all learned something, I mean, earnings experience of my own, going back probably 35 years or so. When the laughing phenomenon. First I came to the church. Yeah, this was before Toronto, this was this was going back before. This was on the tail end of john whimpers our ministers and stuff like that. We went to a church and we were there. And I was going through an extremely dark time. I used to suffer greatly with depression. And when you're dealing, on the one hand, you're dealing with depression on the other Angel, you're struggling with whether or not you're saved. You're you're in a perfect storm that's in a dark, yeah, you're in a very dark place. So I'm in this huge church, and suddenly I start laughing. And I can't stop laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing, laughing, laughing remembering things, it's great, nor restaurant, you know. So eventually stops, eventually I'll stop laughing. I go sit down in the back of the church. And I realize I'm no different to what I was before the laughing started. Nothing has changed,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:48

nothing has changed. It's changed. And I

Steve: 23:51

saw his copy of God is this really wasn't of God. Things would have changed diet so drastically within me that I would have no sense of depression that if this really wasn't God, yeah, if this so called, was holy laughter and it was supposed to deal with the depths of my soul. It didn't,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:11

it didn't do anything, then doing anything, if anything it took you back. Well, because you realize that the the realization of this isn't real, this is a real isn't true. So this is a this is a show, this is a what is going on. So it didn't accelerate you forward. It held you in if anything, you could have gone slipped and disc and wobbled a bit more. So that must have been very difficult for you to cope with. On top of everything,

Steve: 24:39

yes and no, you see, the strange part about it is above the depression. The great desire was to know I was saved, that was above everything. There was a sense whereby I thought if I can come to this place of the knowledge of salvation, so Much will fall away, which to some degree it did. But suddenly it didn't. And so I've looked at that, that this was the grace of God, he allow me to go through something. Yeah, he allow me to experience something to understand that it was false.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:14

Got you. I see what you're saying. Yeah.

Steve: 25:17

And on the back of that, then when Toronto came along and all our business and Rodney our brand went out, I just knew that it was rubbish. It just yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:29

it wasn't true. So when we talk about what you went through, what just come to my heart at this moment in the scripture says, work out your your salvation with fear and trembling. Do you think that that's where you was where you was? Such in a dark depression that you was almost panicking going God? Am I safe? What? Is this really real? Was you worried about dying? Would you worry I live in what? No, without being too deep.

Steve: 26:01

I as of as a naive, young Christian, I saw everybody around me. Yeah, I've got the truth. God, I thought I was the only one that they know it. Yeah. Okay.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:12

I know, we didn't know you don't you know that, you know, you know, no, no.

Steve: 26:17

Yeah, you know, you can light yourself if you want, but it ain't worthwhile. It's a total waste of time, and you fill it nor and so there's this need to continue to pressing. It's reflective in the word it says, you know, make sure that you are off the fights. Caught, it might show you how to fight us. Oh, yeah. It's all very well, so you know, standing in a room sticking around and saying, Yes, I want to be saved. But you have to have it proved to you. And the only way that you can have it proved to you is that you pressing to Christ, until you know, inside of yourself. salvation has come to this house. Amen. Right. And that's part and parcel of some of what Roman speaks about, and the area of working out your salvation with fear and trembling. That's an ongoing thing. So that's a continuum as a continuous thing. It goes on all of our life, all of our journey. Yeah, that's just not prior to me. So if that goes on after because we have to, we have to work this out with God. So that we are in awe of him in fear of him. I mean, there are times when I read the read the Bible and I, I am really shaken inside I am trim I drink inside. Yeah. All right. So that and it's part and parcel of it. You know, God is a holy God is a mighty God we do not, we have no concept of how holy he is now, and how unholy we are

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:50

you that is such a human understands it is that we are so far away because of the holiness but he's with us. Yes, it's so difficult to grasp that.

Steve: 28:06

The 1.1 point we feel as though as far as the east is from the west. So yes, we have far from from him. Yeah. But at the same time, same ties, the sense of presence, keep going, you're I'm giving you the strength to keep going. And the idea behind it is it's something I've grown to understand over the years that God is restoring truth into his church. And in that truth we are being brought to a place certainly that I would suggest this generation I'm talking about my generation I'm 70 years old. I doubt that many were in that place. Possibly if they if they were the Lord from an early age, but things started to go pear shaped in a church probably around about the 1960s we can start seeing the changing in in music the white became more self centered and it moved away from the Lord it moved away from glorifying God and we could live with it for a while but it got worse and worse and worse and now whereas today the vast majority of stuff Yeah, it's I can't even sing our notes it's like throwing solar throw up and singing is just rubbish is blasphemous right because it's it builds me up and brings God down yeah

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:31

yeah sure. I understand

Steve: 29:33

and I can't see I can't you know you know sooner go back to looser mighty fortress is our God the board never shaken and you know, let's get back to that let's you know please I don't want to sing about me not interested in me. Although I am I'm a stringent enough to miss things in my own nostrils. So I must be right stinking nostrils are gonna save the blood of Christ.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:59

But you We talk about this chasm that so far from the holiness of God, His holiness is so great that we can't actually depict and describe it. But the Scripture tells us that greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world. So his presence is with Yes. But his holiness. How do we work that out? Or because how do we get to that point that I'm so far more

Steve: 30:25

because we are bound close? Excuse me. We live both in the flesh and in the spirit. Yeah. So our flesh and our flesh life, I'm not talking about our body, our flesh life. Our evil thoughts, our evil desires, our evil wanderings. Yeah, that's the stage. Right? Okay. Being born again. Yes. That's the holiness. Yes. And this is where we have this war within us. or Russia last is after the flesh, and the flesh the spirit.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:59

So that is shown there. Is this war with this strong war? Yes. And that can and will continue. All the journey that we're walking is up, it never stop. There's no getting away state. There is

Steve: 31:12

no you can I mean, we're usually so you could come to a place of perfection. Now, and do

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:18

you find that the more that you could seek Him the more you realize the stench I am? Oh, yes. So

Steve: 31:25

the closer to God you get, the more conscious you are of your own? Oh, yes.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:30

So

Steve: 31:32

you're also saying that then opens up a door then of how much you need Christ? Yeah. So

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:41

it takes the flesh further away. But it draw it once you want more of it. So it works against it, but it works for it. And, and it can be, it can be quite can use Word upsetting. It can make you quite frustrated that a thought was dropped in Yes. But you've been reading, you've been listening, you've been studying and suddenly something happens and you act different and you think, Oh my god, I possibly thought that I was further on that. ive gone back. But when I start to realize that that is scription that will be I can draw some comfort from that. Because I cannot reach the purity and the holiness that is expected. Now which you must fight for it. But I've got that you've said Satan is very important. I've got a fight for it.

Steve: 32:35

Yes, you must press on.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:37

So that is coming back to endurance.

Steve: 32:40

Yeah, I mean, it's not just the endurance towards Christ, but it's the endurance to get away from me.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:47

So it's the endurance to resist

Steve: 32:49

See, I know how I know how, corruptly Yeah, right. And I know how easily led vaccine ensnares yes yeah, and so yeah, there are times exactly right there are times when I stumble and fall and I think I thought I thought I thought I thought that had been dealt with or really the Lord forgive me,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:13

and you find it, it grabs us all of a sudden, it when What about what's what's happening, load and that makes me very fearful of when something happens like that. I can actually feel that my body is just like, oh God, yeah, but that feels very light. But that is exhausting.

Steve: 33:34

Because it comes suddenly. Yeah, it's an indicator that you are not practicing sin. Now let's talk about Johnson

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:44

practices. Yeah.

Steve: 33:45

Well this is where the church overuse is filed in in the teaching of the righteous sinner which is a contradiction in terms this you don't practicing you're not you're not going you know I'm not getting up to practicing Yeah, but yes, it comes upon me they sing which so easily in snares and it's that daily Lord I need I want a diet and this I hate this this is a strange idea yes and and if we all we've got these false teachers telling us your you know your your great morning look in a mirror and say, you know, and the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, well, I know that but I don't I keep telling myself you know, what I do know is that I'm, I'm corrupt, and I need to die. Thank you that I am the righteousness of God in Christ is this because that gives me the strength to carry on, carry on. I want to die to me. Again, I cannot think of anything worse than my will be done. No, I cannot think of anything worse. And you know, it's it's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:52

a showstopper. It's

Steve: 34:54

beyond me to fathom why anybody would want their will done. If you've really encountered Christ, if you really encountered God, seriously, why would you want your water

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:05

on? What is the will of humanity is to continue to live in the skip that the world is offering, isn't it? Basically, yep, to live in that rock, that filth that that of that fleshly desires at the moments of them as fleeting experiences that are just gone here disappeared. And you're always chasing that quick fix when that quick fix is never a quick is no quick fix. There's nothing there that can satisfy that flesh, because it's always it's always craving from one to another from one to another. And to resist that and to endure. God help me, strengthen me. And then there's this role that's out there that's coming from all areas, sectors of life, business, world politics, church, this false roaring, and you're trying to resist all that and you're trying to be still on hold on God.

Steve: 36:05

I say it can be draining Karna it can be but I think it depends on it. One of the ways you can get away from that draining aspect is look to Jesus. I know that sounds a bit trite because it sounds so it's you know, that's it. I'm not trying to be simplistic. Now, what I'm trying to do is that say is that you get your mind on God and come to this point, not the trials I'm going through you have determined for me? Yeah, the trials ongoing for going through, you have fashioned for me. So whatever temptations come, God doesn't tempt. No, all right, God doesn't tend to that's clear. Yeah. But the temptations will come. These are part of the trials that God will allow. How do I deal with this? Goodness, right. And how I deal with them is I keep coming back to Christ, I don't try to deal with in my own life in my own strengths, or so if I start worrying about how much money I've got, yeah, or whether I'm going up for a promotion, or whether this certain era, I have to come to the place. And it's not, it's not a place that's just easily come to by any stretch of the imagination. I must come to that place of knowing that whatever I'm going through God has fashioned for me. If I'm going to get that promotion, it's because God has determined I get the production. Yeah, if I get the new house, it's because God has determined that I get the new house, what we have to come through come to that we have to learn to come to that place, that there are, there are books, I have learned to know what it is to be based on I have learned to know what it is to about these things are learned. Yeah, they are a learned thing. Yeah, they are not something that just dropped out of heaven now. Right? And they are learned. Coming back to both James and Romans. We go through these things to build up our character,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:12

character building, character building, character building, just persevere and a couple of

Steve: 38:18

things that I think of Thomas crane Bishop, during a time of quietness bus, sorry, no. King Henry the lights and Bloody Mary. When Mary came to the throne, originally she started being she didn't start pursuing the Protestants. But something changed and he started doing it. That cranmer who had been the one the bishop who had basically said to Henry, yes, you can marry Anne Boleyn, because you're married to Katherine American is wrong. Mary was Catherine's doctor. So basically, Kramer was saying, well, you're illegitimate and you know, but she came to the throne. And he got locked up in a in a tower in London. And he he denied his face six times. And he he signed six times, he denied the faith. Now, up until this time, if anybody for swore, yeah, the fight and embrace the Catholic religion, as I let them live, but Cramer no crowd was gonna die. And prior to Kramer's dying, he recanted. He said I was wrong. I shouldn't have recounted my belief, my face. I wrote it out six times. And I I'm not going to regain and he's facing death at this moment. And he said this, this right hand of mine Which signed those documents will burn first? Why are they putting up and I set fire to him, and he stuck his hand in the fire?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:12

Oh my goodness, he stuck his hand in the fire. That is not of

Steve: 40:16

the God's strength and Chroma to

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:18

do you want to do that

Steve: 40:21

and burn to death. But he stuck his hand in the fire for first, this should suffer first, because he's signed six times sign a lie. So it's going to suffer first. Now the other thing is that if we go back to dear old Charles Spurgeon, Spurgeon suffered with depression all of his life. Yeah, a lot of them. But one of the times he would really, really suffer it was when he had preached a very powerful message, he would come out of the pulpit, he would come home, and he would hit rock bottom. And his wife, Susie, who had our own problems, I mean, she, she suffered physically for many, many years. Lots of illnesses that she had, could have been dealt with quite easily now, but not then. And she spent many, many years encouraging him prayer for him. And there were times during times of depression, somebody the Lord had departed from it. Yeah, yeah. And he was he was lost and gone. And he's there our wife, she, she, and this is, this is why it's important for ministers, wives to be real help mates with with their ministers. I've met so many ministers over the years, whose wives really don't support them. I have to ask the question. Will you really call into the ministry? If your wife is not there to see you grow? You really called in the Industry

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:55

yeah

Steve: 41:57

I'm sure there are people out there saying Yes, I was. But it's just a question that comes up. Yeah. And wives are extremely important to ministers. extremamente my missus, she's, she's. She's beyond what's it says she's beyond the price of rubies. She has supported me and looked after me. For seven years. We were married the other day. Wow. 47 wedding anniversary crest. She's been the rock most precious to me. Yeah, I couldn't have had a better wife. Not five, 7 billion people on this earth. Fair enough. Being a woman, I've got the best one. The first one.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:33

Amen. So

Steve: 42:35

it's, it's necessary for us to know that each man will go through times of testing. Yes. And God will give him the strength. I mean, God gave Spurgeon the strength time, and time and time again to come back. When Spurgeon soul, God is, God has left me God to depart from he's never gonna, he's left me. I'm never gonna see him again. But God gave me the strength to come back,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:01

come back and bang back, come back. Yeah,

Steve: 43:05

and it's the same with any person. You don't have to be a minister. It's the same with any person. We all go through our trial. Yeah, every single one of us. If you're new, if you've never gone through a trial, I would seriously question yourself, he

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:23

definitely. That without any doubt. So the trials are there to strengthen to guide as to allow God to work through us and with us, and allow us to be faithful to him and say, God, I need you to strengthen me, because I cannot do this anymore.

Steve: 43:46

See, the other thing about it as well, is that one of the reasons also, especially for ministers, the reason he takes them through is so that he can trust them with more of his glory. Yeah, because there comes a point. Every, you know, I mean, I've heard some stupid, ruddy things. But I can't remember it was by Oh, one idiot. Stand up, say if Paul laid my face, he wouldn't have gone through what you went through. Unless you have a recording of it somewhere. And you're saying, Are you serious?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:21

Are you real?

Steve: 44:22

Yeah. I mean, you're an absolute idiot

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:24

scratching your head thinking What are you? What are you doing? Yeah,

Steve: 44:28

this is the man that God used to formulate theology. Yes, you're saying, Go away. You're an idiot.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:38

But the crazy things that are out there, oh, yeah. The delusion the crazy things that people think and say, I mean, going back

Steve: 44:45

to two points where he says, you know, it I don't know if it's in one picture. It's true. Please do do not think it's strange that these things are

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:55

happening. Yeah. And that's an encouragement. Do not think that these things that are range upon you but to be expected yeah because everybody goes through because everybody's going through

Steve: 45:05

every Christian goes through these yes if you've got if you don't go through them I would seriously question your salvation

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:13

and then so these scriptures that we're bringing out today clearly are highlighted even more so even though we've had long discussions on this over lockdown the false nurses out there because they are telling us that you are great and wonderful and there must be many people that are caught in that thinking I don't feel great and wonderful there must be something wrong with me because I don't feel that you're telling me those sorts of God will deal with that God will draw those people out God will pull that out and then ministries God will draw them

Steve: 45:45

those people in time that it says in in one of the letters to Timothy, you know, there come a time when people will not die they want to stand up the sound doctrine. They'll do Galilee they'll gather the teachers around and scratch

Reverend Ben Cooper: 46:01

the original yeah yeah yeah, so we're at that

Steve: 46:04

time Yeah, I mean, but for my money to scillonian is the great foreign away

Reverend Ben Cooper: 46:11

You were there Yeah,

Steve: 46:12

I think definitely I mean it's been going on for a long time but it's it's just moving on to Pisces seems

Reverend Ben Cooper: 46:17

to be a lot clearer and the pace that you just mentioned where pace it seems to be accelerating doesn't it

Steve: 46:22

very much I find it very strange that there's a lot of that's why I find it strange that there are a lot of ministries out there that tell you not to study prophecy. The one of the reasons they don't want you to study prophecies, they don't you know the truth.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 46:43

Because if you know the truth, you know the truth then you're not given a very good to them. What is

Steve: 46:47

it? I mean, the Bible, they say the Bible is 30% prophecy, I would reckon it's far more than that. You know, if it's prophetic, ah, this is going to happen at the end of time. All right. 30%. But I would I would recommend is a huge, yeah, even when you read in Leviticus, it's a it's a shadow. The Levitical law is a shadow of Christ. All that he went through. Yes. So yeah, the whole book of Leviticus. Deuteronomy is prophetic in many women. That's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:15

a massive chunk eschewed enormous. Yeah. It's prophecies important to understand, isn't it? Because, like, when I understand how the world should be, if I understand and look at EndTime Prophecy, I will draw comfort that actually the world is doing what the prophets and what the Word of God is saying it would do. So that takes a fear away. But that gives me a comfort to understand. Well, then prophets prophesied this.

Steve: 47:44

I mean, we're here, if you look at what is eco Rome? Yeah. He wrote about that time. Yes. But we know we're seeing it now. Yeah. So there's, it's this. It's a double prophetic age, if you will. He was talking to the people then. Peter has picked that up because he knew that he would have been speaking out about his EQ. And to counterpoint that, you know, well, we are all false prophets. We don't want false teachers. We don't want these whitewashed walls. We need to be sound. shepherds, we need to be bringing sound words, we need to be encouraging the sheep, we need to be laying down our lives for the sheep not stealing from him.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 48:23

Yeah. So that was written all that time.

Steve: 48:27

And so this is why I say with regards to, for me, the whole of them, I believe is prophetic in one way or another. And if you if you say to people, you know, don't study prophecy. Well, I'm sorry, you first start off, you're stealing. You're stealing the bread from the mouths of

Reverend Ben Cooper: 48:46

the children? Definitely. Because when you understand prophecy, and you see the timeline, and you work and you see it coming clear, it strengthens you the very much. It already does strengthen you. Wow. Daniel spoke is he killed spoke this was said, Jesus said, Look out for the signals the signs. And when you bring it all together, you go that solid.

Steve: 49:11

That's it. And this is the point that Christ says I will never leave you nor forsake you. He has told us all these things are going to occur, but he will give us the strength to face them. Yeah. And so when we read these things, or if they frighten us, if they if they caused us to tremble. Then what we do is they go back to God and we say, Lord, I'm sorry, I'm fear fearing in many respects, is calling God a lie to me, but nevertheless Yeah, if you deal with your fear as sin, yes, it can be dealt with quite simply, yeah, Lord, I am sinning against you because I'm fearful I'm fearful bring me to a place first of all, thank you for your forgiveness you forgive me because I'll confess my sin. Yeah. Now please bring me to a place of crucifixion. So this fear doesn't touch me anymore

Reverend Ben Cooper: 50:04

and it's gone.

Steve: 50:06

I mean, yeah, it might take a bit of time. I'm still going

Reverend Ben Cooper: 50:11

but not like that. No, it's time again it's a continual continuous journey

Steve: 50:15

and if you just say if you deal with your fear if you deal with fear as a sin and know that he will forgive you your sin you come before me so Lord, I'm not trusting you. Yeah, I am not putting my trust in you but that's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 50:28

a massive break point isn't it? Because you're aware of that as well and you're presenting that to him?

Steve: 50:35

Yeah, I mean you've got you've got women out there at the moment. single mothers that don't know where the next food coming from Yeah, Lord, what am I going to do I'm fearful Lord forgive me for fearing or not trusting in you help me yeah Forgive me Lord forgive me yeah okay he's not guiding not forgive you is going to he's going to and he's going to give you the strength to carry on praise

Reverend Ben Cooper: 51:00

the Lord

Steve: 51:00

and then as you grow in your strength yeah so you will find your look back and say Lord you've got me through that you supplied you supply my need and then you know in all my years and walking with the Lord he's never failed in supply

Reverend Ben Cooper: 51:14

never know I got yeah exactly right he he always you

Steve: 51:19

know we we've got an energy crisis so

Reverend Ben Cooper: 51:23

so Oh yeah, yeah Yeah, that's right. It's about it's about it always comes back to seeking Him to look into award him to keep your eyes on him. Because there is that roar out there there's a roar enormous roar this false roar but the Lion of Judah

Steve: 51:45

while we remember Christ on the cross this god of yours Can he save you can't get down off the cross you know and all the rest of it yeah and what he went through we go through I mean he went through it far more than we did but nevertheless says as he suffered so we suffer from from that roaring lion or in the fryer the balls of ashame were around your balls they were they were sort of coming at him and roaring lion Come on, I mean they they were trying to add to the punishment and the misery that he was going through the our punishment that he was taking upon himself. So he went through that therefore, he knows what we are going through as he went through it in spite and so when we go through it, it's not that he says, Oh, it's rich, you get over it. It's not that he says, Okay, I know what you're going through. Yeah, keep seeking and I'll give you the straight carry on Praise the Lord. Yeah, so the other reason we also have to have trials is it sucks out the wheat from the chaff

Reverend Ben Cooper: 52:51

Yeah Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It does so that is

Steve: 52:56

why I say you know if you never had any trials and you really need to question your your salvation because seriously any you know all these false prophets and

Reverend Ben Cooper: 53:08

false prophets about oh, I think we're I think we're there just one

Steve: 53:13

just one yeah, the lightest

Reverend Ben Cooper: 53:16

that has come out let's have it come on.

Steve: 53:19

Jesse who plans all right oh gosh, okay. Do you know the reason I'm going to ask you a serious question have been the you know the reason why Jesus has not come back yet

Reverend Ben Cooper: 53:31

scriptures and the whole fail to

Steve: 53:32

Jesse replace you know why why Chris you're not given enough

Reverend Ben Cooper: 53:39

thank you for joining us today we're not given enough said

Steve: 53:45

that there was some

Reverend Ben Cooper: 53:48

Jesse

Steve: 53:50

was Copeland and there was various others there and he said yeah, you know, the reason Jesus has not come back is because you're not giving enough you're not giving aid you should give if you guys you should give Jesus would come back and I sat there and I thought, do you really seriously understand what you've just said? Because if you really do let's follow this this follow your logic through let's go with it okay. You say to I've got a give and if I give enough Jesus will come back Okay, so let's say that everybody has got to give $1,000 so we all get together and we give $1,000 and Jesus comes back what happens to those 1000s of dollars they get burned

Reverend Ben Cooper: 54:32

up they get burnt have exactly yeah, right.

Steve: 54:35

Okay, juicy. So

Reverend Ben Cooper: 54:36

your load You know, I think I'll get the checkbook and give 1000 to my gosh, wow, there we go. Thank you stay so much. You know, there you go. One a great one to finish on. Actually beware of the roaring, roaring lion.

Steve: 54:52

aware

Reverend Ben Cooper: 54:53

of that roaring lion up listen to Steve, listen to myself, Ben and which is thank you so much for sharing these podcasts. And we pray replays we just, we just say keep following Jesus keep following Christ keep asking the questions. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling never give up. God is with you. Thank you so much. We'll catch you this time roughly next week as it goes out in the name of Jesus. Have a great week. Take care God bless. Bye bye.

Close: 55:19

Thank you for listening to Elim church swanleys latest podcast. You can find us on buzzsprout Spotify Apple Music iHeartRadio Google Play Alexa mixcloud, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube.