Good morning world. Good afternoon. Good evening, wherever you are today, we welcome you here to#Christian Straight Talk. You've got Simon pinchbeck and myself, Reverend Ben Cooper, and we are in this little studio, this little temporary studio. We have got scaffolders outside the window. So you might hear some bells and some whistles. And you might hear some very unusual language. And but the Lord is good. Simon we're in.
Simon Pinchbeck:Let me just go and have a word with them guys. What we're talking about today is the courage to handle conflicts and compensation.
Reverend Ben Cooper:This is serious. We're in, in our little studio. Yeah, we're in this temporary Make shift shed shed recording this podcast, just getting all this building work done. Building, new studio, everything is breaking out around us. But we are here. We're in Lord's house. That is the most important thing. And wherever you are across the world today, welcome to#Christian straight talk, we welcome you in. I've got my good friend, I've got my great mate.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's great to be around. Ben, and this is the fifth on a series and courage that we're doing. And it's is the courage to handle conflicts, and confrontation and Bennett, you know, at some point in all of our lives, wherever you are out there around the world, at some point, you have to face conflict, and we have to face confrontation, some on a daily basis. That's just the way things are been.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's quite frightening now, isn't it to think that as a believer that there will be and is confrontation, but the church tells us everything is fluffy and happy and wonderful. Come there is peace.
Simon Pinchbeck:But will you close the door to your house and then you know, it's all exploding the sofa going on with a family or friend or forward to your work? Business, even when you're out shopping? Even you drive in is Yeah, right angle time because the world is getting an angry face in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There is anger everywhere there is discord there are lots of things happening out. So as a believer, this is a very challenging and very interesting title that we got here today on hashtag Christian Straight Talk, the courage to handle conflict and confrontation. I've experienced this, I'm going to go into the real depth and the person or names and name it and claim and all sorts of things. But I understand I clearly know what it's like.
Simon Pinchbeck:And you were taught we can be talking about a short conflict or something that happens just out of the blue or maybe a long term thing. That's yeah, it's all around us. And then it's how we handle it. That's what God looks at.
Reverend Ben Cooper:How do I handle it? Yeah, now the battle belongs to the Lord. Now that can be quite a bit of a cop out, you know, all the Lord's gonna deal with it. The law deals with it, but he uses us to deal with it. Yeah, even I go through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil now that shadow that valley of death. That can be an experience not literally of your own mortality. But a valley that is very dark of a workplace experience of a family experience. But as I walk through, because I believe it's verse four, it says even though I walk through, each and every one of us are on a walk through. And it's not going to be roses, it's gonna be challenging, gonna be
Simon Pinchbeck:tough. It's going to be tough. And what do we do? do we how do
Reverend Ben Cooper:I do that? How do I get through this line?
Simon Pinchbeck:We're gonna, there's several layers, I mean, out, do we meet it head on? Do we avoid it? But no one wants to be known as a walkover? Do they? No one wants to be known as someone that you can tread on. So it's knowing when to stand strong. It's knowing when to compromise really been? Where should we turn?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Where should we turn? I gotta turn in. I gotta turn to Jesus. I don't get the rifle out. I don't get the gloves out. I don't start the car. And I don't send a text and I don't send the email. The first thing that I should do is God, please help me. Guide me and strength for me.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well been, we turned to the Word of God that way as well. What is the word of God say about this? If you know and the thing is, if you're in the Word of God, you should it should be on your heart. You should know it and you You are right. When when we kick this off. Because we belong to Jesus. Yeah, what's he gonna do? It's not gonna go. You're on your own son.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I'll tell you another thing that he won't go. He won't go. I'll remove that problem. Don't worry about your enemies. I'll take them out of your sight what he will do. He will walk before us He will deal with us as we go in. So that there are areas of conflict that we can never avoid. We have to go through because it comes to enduring.
Simon Pinchbeck:And that's a big thing. And at Summit we're going to talk about in the next podcast, enjoy insurance perseverance. But is it is the deal. He's going to Jesus will fight for us. And you're in a big areas here, and it's big area. And the thing is, the prayer is this. I believe Ben is not, as you quite rightly said, not to take this away. But Lord, give me the strength to get through it. And you can look at the Imagine you're going down a river, in a canoe or a boat, and yeah, it's beautiful. The sun's out, it's, it's lovely, you know, the fishes are splashing and all that sort of stuff. And all of a sudden, you're up ahead. There's rocks. And there's,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, it's coming.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's coming out, and it's coming in left field, it's coming in every area. And many people will go, Lord, take the rocks away, take the rocks away, and you're heading for them. And you there's no way you can avoid them and the boats gonna you're not just going to smash and you're going to be smashed to smithereens. But what does God do at the last minute, it raises the level of the water, and we go over it, so Amen. And as cool grace in it, and grace and favor and
Reverend Ben Cooper:raise. Now I believe that we couldn't bring in Psalm 91. I will send I will command my angels concerning you to lift you up in their hands. Yeah. So that you will not strike your foot against that rock.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, that rock. So the prayer is don't take this stuff away. But give me the strength and and in you, yeah, give me the strength in you. Not in me. Because the me because the rocks
Reverend Ben Cooper:could take me out, there's rocks will take you out. But the heavenly hosts at the command of Your Word will lift me up in their hands. So the water level rises, and I will not strike my foot against the stone. But Matthew chapter five, verse 43. And 48 is a very interesting read. You have heard, that is said this, love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. That takes courage. Just massive. It's a
Simon Pinchbeck:massive area of massive courage that takes
Reverend Ben Cooper:so the one that is bringing in confrontation, the one that is bringing conflict. What do I do? Do I give them a bit of an id give them a bit of a beating? I have to show unconditional love
Simon Pinchbeck:the finger spin. We have to deal with it wisely wisely. And the thing is, instant gratification gets you nowhere. So you you might end up getting a walloping yourself if you went down that route. You know, I've
Reverend Ben Cooper:had that they don't bring their memories back Jesus. But because I take it on, in my own strength in your own strength, and it's no good been in the boxing ring and you've got, you've got someone coming out yet
Simon Pinchbeck:no one wins an argument.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No one, no one can win. No one can win. But when the scripture comes in, and it says, Love your neighbor, and hate your enemy, hang on a minute. That's bad. Jesus says but I tell you, I tell you. So this is a clear cut commandment. I'm telling you, Ben, love your enemies. But Lord, have you seen him or created your enemies? I put your enemies into being I chose your enemies other recover our word this Yeah. And in the Old Testament texts in the book of Exodus, we've referenced this before, and it clearly says I will be an enemy to your enemies. So what I have to do is I have to operate my life in unconditional love. If I'm not in unconditional love, I will jump into that arena. I will deal with everything with me because my anger, my frustration, my temper, my ability and strength will cause more damage. So
Simon Pinchbeck:this onesie none of this is easy. This This takes absolute strength and courage to be able to do this. And people would say in the world because we live in an upside down Kingdom people in the world would go now you got to do this. You've got to do that. You've got to tell them at ease. You've got to I'm so I'm out. But in our world No, no find strength in in other areas and a lot what he says in Proverbs 16 Seven Bennett says, when a man's ways leaves the Lord, he makes even his enemies be at peace with him. Look
Reverend Ben Cooper:at that beautiful, beautiful scripture that's, come on Lord, this is
Simon Pinchbeck:where men's please the Lord. So if you're always pleased the Lord, who might your enemies be at peace with you?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Now we're coming back to the Garden of Gethsemane because of that, that line that the King of Glory said, Not my will your be done, not mine. So the will so when I'm in his will, it says there, Simon has reference, chapter 16 Verse seven, when the Lord takes pleasure in any one's ways, in the ways we're referring to are his ways, a heart after him. So I have to be in him. Now there is a difference between being in him and living for him, but my heart is his focus. My heart is for God. So God will get his glory. God will. Vengeance is Mine, saith the Lord. In the book of Ephesians, it talks about spiritual warfare, doesn't it because our battle isn't against flesh and blood, but against principalities, in heavenly realms, or authorities, powers. So there is a spiritual battle that is greater than the physical
Simon Pinchbeck:as huge. I'll give you an example. I love that proverbs 16 Seven. And it's worked because, you know, in a past life, I was a police officer, and did a lot of football duty. And a good mate of mine, random Baker, he was a football hooligan over the arsenal, and we were sworn enemies. And I've chased him all over the terraces, and tried to get ahold of him and, and now is also a Christian. And we've come together and we do many talks. were brilliant. So we've used that Scripture 16 Seven properly. Excellent. So so we were enemies, but now always praise the Lord and now our brothers and now people are hearing change lives. Yeah, I'm responding
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, to two different lives, two different two different outlooks, two different agendas. But when God saves God brings God brings your enemies into the same kingdom. God brings people in that you would not expect to come in and they can only come in, and God God brings them in because of unconditional love. And, and I have a responsibility not to pick up the gloves.
Simon Pinchbeck:Listen, look what it says in Romans 1217. It says, repay no one evil for evil. That's right. Yeah, have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as it depends on you, live peaceably with all men, as well. You see Sibley, now, he says, Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath forms, written, Vengeance is mine, and I will repay. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's a very harsh and a very powerful, a very direct word from God.
Simon Pinchbeck:And then he goes on to say, then, if your enemies hungry, feeding, if he's thirsty, give him a drink, for in doing so your heap coals of fire and he said,
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's upside down. So when when
Simon Pinchbeck:it's upside down,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've won before I fight. But I don't actually fight. What I do is I love I love unconditionally. What Christ say on the cross of Calvary Father, forgive them for they know know what they do. Forgiveness,
Simon Pinchbeck:man, people, people out there, will you just, we just sort of skim over them. We just skim over that we literally just look at what he's saying. So here we have a saying all these. They whipped him like,
Reverend Ben Cooper:like, punch me the church punch me. He's the church spat at me
Simon Pinchbeck:he must. He's been he was a Jew for 34 years. He seen crucifixions and he knows he's got to go through it. It's the separation from Him. And God there put him on Eros. And he's going for Kevin, Lord, forgive them for they don't know what they're doing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Forgive forgiveness is a key. Forgiveness is a is a is a is a fundamental point of Christianity. If I can get into the position of forgiving. I have no enemies. It's because they're not my enemy.
Simon Pinchbeck:And we need to take it a stage further honestly believe and this is hard. It's so hard and we're going to do the courage to forgive next week, but it is so difficult. Because what I'd say take it a stage further I'd say like it says in the word, pray for blessings on your enemies, or I love her to come
Reverend Ben Cooper:on. Come on. Now, I believe I know that there are so many in conflict right now as in listening back to this podcast. I know that there are many men and women that are absolutely screaming from the inside, but can't let people know what really is going on. There is so much conflict amongst families are bent against the pressures and the political agendas and everything that's going on. We have to hold our place. But as a believer in Christ Jesus, Jesus has told us, but I tell you love your enemies, as Simas brought that script about feeding and praying, and it says, Pray for those that persecute you
Simon Pinchbeck:pray for him. Yeah. And believe me. That's the hardest press. You know, believe me, it's not a formula. But if you can do it with all your heart, it truly works. And and the level of conflict. Yeah, diminishes. Yeah, completely. conflict and confrontation, it will sow into what it sews into your pride it soaks into your ego. Yeah. Let me give you a scenario and see how you deal with it. You're due to meet your wife at a coffee shop down in town at the cost of coffee when you get there. Your wife's outside, she's, she's a little bit upset. She's tearful, what's wrong. I sat down at a table waiting for you to come in. And a guy came with his coffee and ordered me out the seat said it was his seat. I want you to go in and do something. Why don't you go in and say something to him? There is in the corner is a big old lamp. He's got his coffee,
Reverend Ben Cooper:bigger unit.
Simon Pinchbeck:Now, it's your wife. You want to stand up for your wife don't Yeah. You've pride immediately says I'm going to sort of sky her out. You deal with that? It's just a small scenario out. Would you deal with that then?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Okay, Darlin', just going inside of the coffee house? In the name of Jesus. Give me Sure. So you are in a position. And you've been upset? Because you're upset because your wife is upset? And you've got to go in and you've got it? How do you deal?
Simon Pinchbeck:How do you? How do you deal with when your wife's been assaulted
Reverend Ben Cooper:your man deal with this?
Simon Pinchbeck:How'd you do? She's looking to you. She's saying I want some action here do
Reverend Ben Cooper:deal with it, help me lord.
Simon Pinchbeck:a big outlier if he was wearing your dog collar that would help on safety.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's a very difficult thing.
Simon Pinchbeck:Maybe you know, you mentally you've got to say a little prayer.
Reverend Ben Cooper:straightaway, Lord help me deal with this. Because firstly, is a big unit. And so and there are issues expanding from this situation. And help me law because I'm going into a area that is conflicting. And it's like a David and Goliath situation where you have to go some things you have to deal with some
Simon Pinchbeck:things you've got to do. Because if you walk away,
Reverend Ben Cooper:how do I deal with that? If you
Simon Pinchbeck:say to her, Look, let's just walk away from this situation. She's looking at you thinking, No, I want you to deal with it. Yeah. Go into this, go into the shop with her and say, Mike, I think there's been a little bit of a misunderstanding. You know, that's fine of your table. But my wife was a little bit upset by what you said to her, you know, be great if you could just apologize, Mike. So it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:been wise is a wise, been wise and thinking, Okay, I can't act like a Viking. I, I've got to be the crush that I've got to be the man that God has called me to be. But the world would do that in a completely different way. You know, an angry man would go in, you know, we know what it's like,
Simon Pinchbeck:lose his head and he's road rage. It's it's storming. And before you know where it was, we're in serious trouble. You got to deal with it. So it's a classic
Reverend Ben Cooper:example of not you being put to the test. But how how do I react as a as a believer in a very tense, emotional situation? It's it's it because my reaction, we both sides could be very, very catastrophic,
Simon Pinchbeck:but you can't do it in your own strength.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can't do it. So I've got one hand. I have my wife really upset the other hand. You've got a gorilla. Yes. So you've got to go God, you got to help me.
Simon Pinchbeck:You got to help me to defuse you ain't got time to get on you. You got time to get in you've just got time to go choose us or Nigeria you give
Reverend Ben Cooper:me the wise words give me Godly counsel for that I can bring calmness to my wife peace to this situation. But when I go into the arena I want a black eyed Jesus no Can you help me just give me the words because I don't want the Old Testament me to rise up.
Simon Pinchbeck:If you go in with the right attitude, the guy will realize and say, Look, I'm sorry love, you know, I've had a bad morning whatever he wasn't thinking because seven could be on a bad day
Reverend Ben Cooper:reaction reaction is is extremely dangerous if I react in the physical and the natural so I've got to hold my breath for a moment. Gather my thinking as in not in my my natural way of thinking But Lord, how do I deal with this best case
Simon Pinchbeck:scenario the Lord give you the words and the funnel? gola. I'm sorry, I'm really sorry. You don't have to say much more than that. You just yeah, you walk out in the fellows. Okay, he's got his table. He misses his you know she's seen calm down. You've made
Reverend Ben Cooper:it an issue
Simon Pinchbeck:you've you've made a stand for her you're that you're the white knight on the on the on the stage. And you've taken her out and you've gone to another coffee shop. Oh, oh God. Let me give you another let me give you another thing that happened to my mate of mine who rent a baker I'm talking about now he's a he was a builder rent and he's still does a little bit on the tools and Yeah, his is a Christian man. He's gone with his son in he's done some work done a patio for a guy in his school. He's got a nice big house out on the golf course somewhere. And the amount of money that they agreed on was 4000 pounds. So they finished the job he's done a great job lovely. Beautiful dad sons in the car. He goes back fella comes down says would you think you've done a great job Brenton? Nation money he says there's only 2000 pounds ACCA union You ain't getting a penny more that will all it is but you want to grants short. You know that
Reverend Ben Cooper:to two bags essential a lot of dosh mate is massive. That's
Simon Pinchbeck:random is hardly Tom think about it. He says so he walks out goes back in the cartel was born his boy so you're not gonna have him? Yeah, you're not gonna know the old rent and the No, no, he Old Testament rent and would have gone smash the patio out fruit and money and he's faced composite. I'll go and try again. So he goes in and looks at a man and says, What are you doing? You're like a bit of dirt under my shoe. And get a it's taking a deep breath. And he's gone. He's, he's out a little prayer is gone back. He's got in the car. And he said, He's boy, look, that's it. You get your money, you get your wages at work, but we're driving away. And he said Lord this down a little bit later that day, he gets a phone call. Writing gets a phone call from someone else. Yeah, it wants to give him more work. That's given him the money that replaced the money that the guy had,
Reverend Ben Cooper:shall supply all my needs according to His riches in glory. So he's dealt with it the right way. And God is blessed that God has blessed him for being obedient to not jumping into the arena of confrontation. See, God will not take the confrontation away. But what God will do, he will strengthen that person in that time that says, I'm not going to rise up as the Old Testament me, I am going to lay that down and Lord, I'm going to walk
Simon Pinchbeck:because when we go you know as individuals, we got look further down the road and we have got a look at the consequences to our actions. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:there is always a consequence was a consequent to an action of of any level road rage, anger, answering emails, texts, everything issues at work
Simon Pinchbeck:issues at work. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:How do I deal as, as a Bible believing believer, a believer of the God of Israel, a Christian Christ in me, how do I deal with the issues in the workplace that are not godly and it is putting me in a in a conflict there is a conflict between the culprit and the Scripture. So there is another area that can be very hard for a believer in a workplace scenario. When your Bible is telling you a B, C, and D and the policies and the structure and the governance and everything else is telling us something completely different. So there is conflict all the way through a believers journey. And it is very difficult to hold your place,
Simon Pinchbeck:right difficult to raise the standard sometimes isn't in and say, you know, I'm a Christian man, Christian woman, and this doesn't sit right with me, this is conflict in this, this is this complex, where my faith,
Reverend Ben Cooper:my faith is being calm, I'm not going to compromise. So it's probably
Simon Pinchbeck:easier if you know, if you're a member of another religion, upper is probably easier to go down that religious route, as a Christian,
Reverend Ben Cooper:but as a believer, because Christianity is the one that is being persecuted. If you are a Christian, you will find persecution on every level. But the church religion is trying to disguise it, and trying to push it away because the church won't deal with confrontation. Church won't deal with conflict,
Simon Pinchbeck:don't forget tgz as how to deal with it does it because we, you know, in our everyday lives, we come across this thing and, you know, I want to, you know, give some advice here from a personal point of view, you know, everyone does, whatever they, you know, they think from a personal point of view been give or lend. That's a big, it's a big one because, as a Christian, a man, I've lent money to people, and never got it back. Now. I've learned my lesson, but I'll give it back. My lesson, we've gotten into situations, yes. So what I believe is that if someone wants to lend something from you, don't lend it to them. Don't lend it to the word lend
Reverend Ben Cooper:should not be in your vocab should
Simon Pinchbeck:not be in the vocab. But if you if you can afford to, if it's in a possibility, give it give it to them a bless them with it, whether it's a whether it's a tool at your tool bag, whether it's a few query
Reverend Ben Cooper:give it it's better to give and to receive given is so powerful so powerful. It means giving of yourself given of your ability given of your skills given on finances given your if someone once your coat. Yeah, no, ma'am, no, ma'am,
Simon Pinchbeck:it because I don't love learning the hard way not to lend because then lending will cause conflict. Because
Reverend Ben Cooper:you're always waiting for the 50 quid to come back. And you're always anticipating an anticipation is not scriptural? No, I give you that. I'll give you that sister, brother. It is yours. That's that I do not want this back. You know,
Simon Pinchbeck:I had a situation where Christian brother, he wanted to go on holiday and bit work didn't come in. I said, Look, I'll lend you the money. My you know, and just pay me when you can. And then he went off, went on the other day and disappeared. He fell off the radar, you know. And then a couple of years later, he came back on the radar, you know, and there was Yeah. There was an atmosphere so I called him out we had a meeting and he gave me a bit of cash and a few checks are separate the checks up October cash, and we've we've moved on since then. But
Reverend Ben Cooper:there is a mailing there was a there was an atmosphere and and that needs to be really clear that that needs to be dealt with. Because when there's an atmosphere, it is of the darker side. Because God doesn't bring an atmosphere he brings freedom to brings through these freedoms or might just
Simon Pinchbeck:conflict what I'd say to people out there, as you quite rightly said, then
Reverend Ben Cooper:give it give it we have the biblical reference right in front of us. Luke, chapter six, verse 29. If someone slaps you on the cheek or one cheek, turn to them and give the other also if someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. give and you give, and you give and you give.
Simon Pinchbeck:And so what's happened since then, is that I've had people come around the house, do a bit of work. And yeah, I know they've talked me up with you know, with you with your boss. So I don't argue bless them and I'm probably given in our cup liquid on top of that. Yeah, So Kim, a
Reverend Ben Cooper:chocolate biscuit.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, a cup of tea. It definitely wants to sugar but have it Take it take, it's gonna cause
Reverend Ben Cooper:what that does that. Let me just try and put this a bit quick. It doesn't bless them It blesses us because we've got freedom from freedom is that that's the price. That's the massive freedom because we got freedom. So when Christ said, Father forgive them for they know know what they do that is freedom. So when when we give an if I put myself from this moment on an understand my life is to be given my everything I've got is not of mine, not give I give you, I'll give you it, or give you it. But for now, if we're going to the world of business men and women, give your money away. Give your life away. What did Jesus say drop your net to come and follow me. There is a challenge out there for any believer. And it's not the value that you are giving. Because really that that's just it's are you prepared?
Simon Pinchbeck:Are you prepared to give it with your heart and it's the heart condition, and really
Reverend Ben Cooper:don't even if you give a quid it is a bigger than giving a million? Because it's not the lip service. It's not it is the it is the it is the widow's mite.
Simon Pinchbeck:And what I signed up and also is, don't worry about where they spend it, or don't worry what they do with it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I feel media once had given it.
Simon Pinchbeck:Once you've given it, it's gone. So here's is a scenario, Ben, you do amazing stuff within this church on giving out food parcels? You don't ask here that you don't ask for a layer of income or anything. Now if you've if you're coming here and you're a greedy person, and you're just taking Well, that's on you that's on the purse that's on you. We are giving it to you with a heart that says if you need it, take it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And the other thing I think Simon is really thank you. The other thing that's really important is when I give I do not judge don't judge, I don't look at what they already have. Because Christ is not looking at them. He's looking at my heart is Ben given
Simon Pinchbeck:judgment is a huge thing. And I think we'll do a podcast on it. Don't judge it don't judge you know, take that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because it's like
Simon Pinchbeck:yeah, before you look at the spec is Yeah, right. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So given has to be unconditional. So when I when I understand what giving really is giving is giving of yourself because there was a gift and the gift has been given the gift of salvation. There was a price, a sacrifice, the blood of Christ, the life of Christ. So he gave God gave His one and only begotten Son. So I have been given I have the gift of salvation. So what I need to do is, and that was unconditional love for God so loved the world that he gave, even when it hurt, even when it is I can't kind of give God I've got to give. But I've got to give because I love for God so loved the world that he gave. I've got to be in love to have the strength to give
Simon Pinchbeck:to give love. It's it's massive and, and managed. We need to take time to think about that. But, but we're thinking about it and think about that scripture. Where the king was was, he had a certain guy owed him a certain amount of money. Oh, yeah, come on. And the king was going to put him in prison and the guy got down before Him and said no, you know, give me time. Give me time. And a king had mercy on him gave him time. And then the next thing the same fellow goes out and frog was a servant for a small amount for us. In prison. Yeah. Yeah. Be very careful with your demands we should be giving without with a heart that that doesn't judge with a heart that just doesn't expect anything as an aspect anything bad you know, because the world expects something to happen in the world
Reverend Ben Cooper:expects Yeah, would you like a sofa? Sir? Come it's come on. Sign here. It's free. It's there's payback. There's payback is pays no free lunches. There's no free lunches. Nothing is free. But there is free. There is a word that sits in the Scripture, who the sunsets free is free. Indeed, I'm free from the penalty of sin. Because the penalty of sin and the action of my sin has been paid for by the ransom of the blood of the living Christ. So if I am in Jesus, I should be living like Christ should expect me to live so unforgiveness pride, arrogance. Unconditional Love should be at the forefront should be at the forefront. Yeah, and when it is, I give, and I actually I actually don't realize that I am giving, because I am doing as the scripture says,
Simon Pinchbeck:the other thing, Ben is sometimes we can be in a situation and conflict or just come out of nowhere, from nowhere nowhere. And we can be, you can be talking to someone and all the sudden bang, you know, you're in the middle of something, and we have to be careful not to react, we have to be careful not to be drawn in to, to using words that come out, because stuff like that sticks with people. So, you know, sometimes it's better to say nothing, then then react in a bad way. If you've got nothing positive to say. Say nothing. Sometimes the wisest man in the room, his whole Job says he says nothing but
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, yeah. And hold your peace, hold your peace and conflict. Conflict will always try to get the old man rising. Because it's flesh against flesh. Yeah, it
Simon Pinchbeck:is. Yeah. And we can't beat it and you can't beat in the nose, you say there's dominance.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I am, I am more than a conqueror through him. I can I can lay the old me down, I can walk away from conflict I can, I can leave this confrontational situation, I can leave this. The most powerful thing that anyone can ever do in a in an area of conflict and confrontation. is just to say, God bless and walk away with the email, delete the text, well, don't do the phone call. Yeah, just don't. But walk.
Simon Pinchbeck:Just just walk away.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Just walk walking away from from a conflict is obedience, because the battle belongs to the Lord. It is not my fight. And, and we might say we have a what I'm not an aggressive person, but we fight with words. We fight we will fight with words. And if you if you are very clever with words, and if you are very particular, particular and you, you will use words, and you use words to pull people down and pull people down. So word so James speaks very clearly, in the book, the book of James talked about the power of the tongue, the smallest muscle in the body, but it is the most powerful, it's the most dangerous, because what we say will affect either ay ay, ay encourage someone or I destroy someone destroy
Simon Pinchbeck:someone. Yeah. Because I, you know, been I deal with men all the time. Yeah. That have had stuff said to him, and never got rid of it. And it's caused problems in all the way through their life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And a big percentage of confrontation is because of that, obviously, the words have been said. So the word brings the trouble.
Simon Pinchbeck:You mentioned James Bond, and that we're talking about that. You mentioned from the context of the tongue, but look what he says, in 119. He says this, he says, So then my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath, slow to anger, for anger, of man does not produce the righteousness of God. Anger, and this is righteous. Anger is got no place in a Christian man,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it has no place. Anger has no place in my heart. If anger is living in my heart, I have serious issues. Not with no one else. But me. But you I need God to deal with me. The biggest enemy is the enemy is me. Listen to me, it's good. It's really, really, really important that it's not so much I'm looking out. It's that I'm frightened to look in.
Simon Pinchbeck:And what happens when you're trying to look in, if you don't deal it, deal with it in a godly way, you'll come out and you will attack because you don't want anyone to see the vulnerability that's there. And you, you attack and attack and attack. And don't let anyone see the real and you think you're winning but
Reverend Ben Cooper:you're not winning, because the real conflict is yourself as yourself is to stand in front of the mirror and look deep within one's eyes and say, God, I thank You that I am saved. I thank you that I'm on a journey with you. But I don't like my anger issues because my anger issues are triggering triggering unforgiveness. It's triggering conflict because I can be the one that can be bringing the conflict.
Simon Pinchbeck:Oh, that's a great point. When do we ever look at ourselves? What part we do we play in this conflict? It's not always the other person. Sometimes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's stuff that's me that I've started, we've started because I won't lay down what they said about I want my way. I want Frank Sinatra. This is this is my show. I call the shots I call the shots. So when I get into that area, I'm away from his will.
Simon Pinchbeck:But slightly, because we've got such a little time. So but Ben, you're a church leader? How do you deal with conflict in the church and our dear person deal with? You know, they're in a church? And suddenly the leaders saying things which we know on are not biblical or not scriptural out? Would you do about that? Because that creates conflict, doesn't it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:So are we referring to sound doctrine? sound doctrine?
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. So Timothy four.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So so what we have here is if if a leader is not bringing clear, and I'm not talking away about the way the person lives, because all have sinned and fallen short with glory, it's the teaching aspect of it, if I have to make sure that I am in a church that is bringing sound clean doctrine, and there are many denominations, and there are many leaders that are not bringing clean and sound doctrine, how do I deal with that I leave the church.
Simon Pinchbeck:Would you not come from the church leader in love and say, you know, first of all,
Reverend Ben Cooper:some some areas, some some places, but even so, if you take it to a different level, there are some leaders that will not allow you to speak, because it is their show, and their way. So they will close you down. If you've got a leader that will sit with you, and allow you to speak and to say, Ben, I think you're off the rocker with this a little bit. You're and that leader is coming back and saying I'm sorry about that. That is a that is a great place to be. But you will find I'm afraid, a mass percentage of leaders are leaders, not because God has put them in leaders, it's because their egos,
Simon Pinchbeck:so then we have to look at whether or not we stay in that place. That's the truth. So there
Reverend Ben Cooper:is a lot of there is a lot in that question. There is a lot lot in that. And as as a leader, a leader always will have to sit down and be confronted, because it goes with the territory, the territory, it goes with the territory. And to be honest, I literally feel like a punch bag. Some days, I honestly, I feel that I have it come in from every corner of the world of church, but you have to absorb it. So you're Yeah, you have to absorb it and allow that person to press it on you.
Simon Pinchbeck:Because they take it Yeah, in order to accept
Reverend Ben Cooper:it. But then to just deal with it in a godly way. So you've got to be
Simon Pinchbeck:the bag, but they may be they may have some things in areas that
Reverend Ben Cooper:they would have made. Yeah, they did lots of things. But is
Simon Pinchbeck:that it was so Ben, I've left ministries and churches. Yeah. But so if we're not careful, there could be conflict in actually leaving, you know, because there could be bitterness there could so what I normally what I've done every time and it's not easy. I've sat down with with the leaders of the Ministries of churches. And I've said that look, I'm moving on. I think the Lord's opened another door. I'm moving on. But I need your blessing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's the hardest thing. Right? Simon has just opened the gateway to a very interesting subject. If you are under a leader that is in sound doctrine, that leader will say this. Amen. Go out, go out and spread your wings. I will support you. I will pray for you. I will encourage you because it's not about the man's ministry. We are we belong to the kingdom of God. But so often we hear they're leaving go good riddens by they not gifted anyway, they're a hindrance to me. What you will, you will measure you'll see the level that the man or the person is that are leading that church by by that one line that comes to you you get the text you get the phone call, Pastor cannot come and see you. Yes, certainly. I feel The Lord is moving us on the way the pastor and leader speaks to the next line is the level that they're at.
Simon Pinchbeck:Because be honest with you have been, because the church is not their church. No, it's not a church and it's the kingdom. And what I'd say to people is never close the door, never close the door, never close that, that door, the Lord's closed it for you, then that's fine, but leave on, leave on on God's turn.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But what you will find religion will want to hang on to you, religion will stand at the door on a Sunday and go, I just want to When was your last Sunday? I didn't say you come in, when leaders are clocking you in and out of the building, and they know what time you was in and when you was last next. They're not interested in your salvation and your edification in the Word of God. They're interested in building bums on seats that were in a kingdom and a spiritual leader. That is biblically trying, I'll say trying because there is no leader on planet earth that is living and correctly an absolutely bang on point with this because, because we just can't, but we try. So what I'm saying is, you will know a true leader by the way that he, he allows that person to flourish where even within the ministry in the church, if someone comes to you and says, Look, I believe God has gifted me God is calling me to this, the reaction of that leader will tell you where that person is in Christ Jesus, definitely because that leader should say, I'm going to put my arm around you and this is great. And we're going to try and if if it goes wrong, it goes wrong. If it goes right it goes right but I am going to support you. And I believe that God is dropped that seed in your spirit.
Simon Pinchbeck:What I've what I've found is that when I've done that, I've put it on the leaders to bless me they've made that they've added to it because all of a sudden is going against God's got godly way to deal with things so they've they've blessed me and in some cases you know I've been able to move back and go back with these these guys and to do some work with them. Because I've left under their blessing. Yeah. Really it will show but there is
Reverend Ben Cooper:there is a difference. See we can all speak it. So okay, Simon thank you for your time in the church. We will give you our blessing but lip service you will see you will see as you have seen if that person has really blessed you because they will they will welcome you in any second because yeah, because this is it's on them so you you've put it back into there exactly. You've put it back into them so that it sits with the leader and what's really really clear here is that leaders are so swift with their lips to speak but their actions as in welcoming release in walk in that is that is the tester
Simon Pinchbeck:is a big tester have been well not looking at Simon yet again. Again we've we've all and we haven't we've we haven't really done
Reverend Ben Cooper:that was on we only scratched the surface really
Simon Pinchbeck:been in conflict with the family we haven't spoke about that there.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh dear. Oh dear.
Simon Pinchbeck:We haven't spoke about you know harsh words run deep and we haven't spoke about real conflict in email and social media and bullying across the social and how easy it is in within an email just to miss read an email or tap misinterpret an email or a text from someone. We haven't dealt with that either. So maybe we need to spend a bit more time in this area. What do you think?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think we'll stay in it and I think the scripture that comes to my mind the conflict in family is Joseph. Dad's give me this beautiful tunic Brothers What do you think we're gonna kill you? But that shouldn't be bad, but he's only give me this fluffy jumper. He's only he's only he's only just look at that. Give me brothers. Look, look, look, Reuben, get your brother. You're gonna do you know what conflict in families Shuja is enormous. It's absolutely press the next one.
Simon Pinchbeck:I think we will do because the scaffolders are hanging through the window and you've got an awful lot to say on this because
Reverend Ben Cooper:oh my day
Simon Pinchbeck:experiencing plays the Lord.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Give me strength.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well Belmond call it a day you already have 15 minutes and we could go for another 15 minutes
Reverend Ben Cooper:now get down a coffee shop. Give him an ID Simon, you know what? I love you with all my heart, my friend. And we love every one of you out there because we really do. We do we really do. And we just want to encourage you. We want to just let you know that God loves you, God, God is with you in your conflict. God is with you in your trouble. God is with you in every area of life and we just want you to never give up Simon, Ben.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, we just want to say to everyone out there don't forget this is#Christian straight talk. And don't forget the book. Don't forget the book sale. It's men's talk is the first book is out. It's out on Amazon. It's 899 and it's worth every penny because there's some great stuff in there we have some great feedback already. We're already got the second book which is on fear, right? That's that's being worked on right as we speak. So don't forget that keep us in your prayers please and and lift us up because we were touching some subjects which are really frontline stuff. So straight down the barrel truth #Christian Straight Talk. God bless you all. Thank you for you for listening. And we'll see you again next time.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Amen. And just to round that off, you can catch us on Spotify, you know, Buzzsprout, all the social platforms. Please share this stuff out. Yes, Simon said you've been listening to me, Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon Pinchbeck. #Christian Straight Talk. Have a great day. And remember, the battle belongs to the Lord in Jesus name. Amen.