Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:02

Hello and welcome to elim church swanley, you're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper for today's podcast. Thank you for joining us here on this podcast. Wherever you are today. May God bless you and strengthen you. It's myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and we got Steve valla with us today. As we're recording this we are in Psalm 37. Thank you to all those that downloaded load these podcasts were hearing quite a lot of stuff actually the statistics coming out of America, we thank you for the messages that will come for. May God bless you and strengthen you America. I don't know why you are downloading these May God bless you

Steve: 0:34

because you don't understand a word I can say.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:37

They certainly can. So we thank you so much to everybody that is downloading these acceleration of these podcasts. We are really blessed to know there are people listening, engaging. So we thank you so much. We are in Psalm 37. As we are here in this little studio, are we going to be completely honest, you may hear a bit of noise in the background. There is major works going on in the Lord's house on the Lord's house. The scaffolders are outside. This is live, this is raw recorded, this is not edited in any way, shape, or form. This is straight off the bat. So welcome, everybody. Steve, let's go Psalm 37. Yeah,

Steve: 1:14

afternoon, I'm going to read all 40 verses that I'm going to be concentrating on probably three, but I want to read all of it because I want it all in context. The title of this is really what is your first love? It might not seem that pay as we go through but I want to develop some thoughts on this anyway. So do not fret because we will do is be not envious toward wrongdoers. For they will wither quickly like the grass and fade like the green herb. Trust in the Lord and do good to win in the land and cultivate faithfulness. Delight yourself in the Lord. And He will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord, trust also in Him and He will do it. He will bring forth Your righteousness as the light and your judgment as the noonday. Rest in the Lord and wait patiently for Him. Do not fret because of him who prospers. And he's white, because of the man who carried out wicked schemes. cease from anger and forsake wrath. Do not fret, it leads only to evil doing, he will do his will be cut off. But those who wait for the Lord, they will inherit the land in a little while and the wicked man will be no more. And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there. But the humble will inherit that land and will delight themselves in abundant prosperity. The weekly plots against the rightest and Nash's at him with his teeth. The Lord Lawson him received his day coming the weekend have drawn the sword and bent their bow to cast down the afflicted and the needy, to slay those who are upright and conduct. Their sword will enter their own heart and their bows will be broken. Better is the little of the righteous than the abundance of the many wicked, for the arms of the wicked will be broken. But the Lord sustains the righteous and the Lord knows that I is of the blameless and their inheritance will be forever. I will not be ashamed in the time of evil. And in the days of famine, they will have abundance. But the wicked will perish. And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures vanish. Like the smoke, they vanish away. The wicked borrows and does not pay back. But the writers is gracious and gifts for those blessed by Him will inherit the land. But those cursed by him that we cut off. The steps of a man are established by the Lord and He delights in his wife. When he falls, he shall not be hurled headlong, because the Lord is the one who holds his head. I've been young and now I am old. You know I have not seen the writers forsaken or his descendants begging bread. All day long. He is gracious and Linz and his descendants are a blessing. depart from evil and do good, so you will abide forever. For the Lord loves justice does not for cyclists, cuddly ones, they are preserved forever. But the descendants of the wicked will because of the righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever. The mouth of the righteous utters wisdom in his tongue speaks justice. The Lord is God is in his heart. He steps do not slip but wicked spies upon the righteous and six to kill him. The Lord will not leave him in his head or let him be condemned when he is judged. Wait for the Lord and keep His way and He will exalt you to inherit the land. When the wicked are caught off, you'll see I've seen a wicked violent man spreading himself like a luxuriant tree and its native soil and he passed away and lo he was no more I sought for him but he could not be found. Mark the blameless man and behold the upright The man of peace will have a posterity, but transgressors will be altogether destroyed. The posterity of the wicked will be cut off. But the salvation of the righteous is from the Lord. He is their strength in time of trouble. The Lord help seven delivers them. He delivers them from the wicked and saves them, because they take refuge in him.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:22

Wow, that is that there's the beautiful sovereign. And you read that absolutely, brilliantly. And I've got a few few areas that are really stuck to me really pushed out into my heart there. A few verses there. So I'm gonna let Steve just take us in this. And I'll just just bring a reference to that as we go through. But it's a beautiful Psalm Psalm of David. Very encouraging. really encouraging, isn't it? And I'd say if you take the you take the lead on this and well over the years.

Steve: 5:56

Verse Four is a one has always been taken out of context. Yeah. Do you like yourself in the Lord knew give you the desires of your heart? That comes down to you want your big house? He'll give it to you? Yeah, caring? Rich? Yeah. You want your job to give it to you. You want this? You want that you want one. But

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:13

the so there's no material gain whatsoever in the kingdom of God. But he's been manipulated, as we say that because I'm referring to our friends, the light and climate in the name of it yet? Yeah.

Steve: 6:30

No. The point about the Psalms, or this particular psalm is that as you grow in God, and you see the wicked, grow, and then all destroyed. You should see a change in your own heart. And you should see righteous desires. Yeah, the sort of thrust of the verses that God will give you desires in your heart, he will place those desires in there, and then He will fulfill those desires.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:07

Them desires are for him, yeah, be more into him or walking with him. But we've heard that text so easily been manipulated over the generations of where they put the slant onto material gain and everything that goes along with that, but actually is to to be more and to get more of the Messiah. Yeah, that's what it's about. It's simple. It's very

Steve: 7:31

clear. Really, truthfully, in some respects, it's, what is your first love? If someone was to say to you, If God could answer your prayer today, what prayer? Is it that you would want him to answer? And it's the, it's the how you respond to that question, gives you an indication of when you are in Christ. Indeed, if you are in Christ, and what you need to do about your condition, if you find your answering in a materialist, yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:02

yeah. To be perfectly honest, my answer would be now, right now, I'm going back a number of months, because we both have learned a lot through this. I want more of You, Jesus. Because I've always known that there, I have to be completely in but there comes a point doesn't know when you reach a certain place in your walk with Him, where you realize that Ecclesiastes, not everything was meaningless, but I need more of him to be able to equip me to do what I've got to do. If I don't have him, everything is just I don't get more of him. I'm not going to make this journey. So my answer to that would be I need more of you. Yes. Clear. Above every above everything, about family about friends above us anything? It is. I just need more of You, Jesus.

Steve: 8:52

For me, yeah, I remember. It says here, O Israel, the LORD your God is one Yeah, we should love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul, all your mind, with all your strengths, and love your neighbor as yourself. And that would be my desire. Yes. What I want to see in your I want to see come forth in me that the fact is, it says here in the Psalm, you know, you don't have to worry about I mean, it goes what Jesus says, Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you. And he was enumerate and you know, don't worry about what your word up however, we asleep and so on and so forth. How will take care of you? Yes. And that's reflected here in this song. Yeah. You know, God will look after you. God will take care of most definitely. And it's not to it's the intriguing part about his diabetes is do not envy the wicked. But there's also for us as Christians, we have to make sure that we don't envy one another.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:55

Yeah. That's very interesting

Steve: 9:57

its veryn easy to envy. or cover another Christians position

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:04

yeah Or why have they got that lord

Steve: 10:06

Yes, that God has given him. Yeah, competition. This isn't a word covetousness sees it says idolatry. So we have to be very careful with it. Over the years, looking at some of the old sites, I've looked at their lives. And it's never been, I've never wanted to live their life. I've not wanted to have the ministry and so on and so forth. But what are the qualities that I've seen in them? Yeah. Which basically, when you boil it down, it's Jesus, Jesus, that's what I want. And it's if that desire is there, if you have that desire, in truth, and you have to make sure you're true, you can't you can't answer this is your sort of offering getting the correct answer to the question Is it?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:57

Yeah, because it's your heart speaking. Yeah, very much so. Yeah. And and the only one that really sees that is Christ so we can't lie we have to be completely open. And I have reached that point in my life where I thought and I know that I know that I just need you more than ever. More than ever. My heart sometimes I can almost feel it Akin. God please help me show me the way Give me more wisdom that the acceleration of time and everything breaking out around us God I need more of you if I can give me eyes to see give me ears to hear is gonna help me see see

Steve: 11:35

how much do I feel a lot of blind man. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Natural fact is part of sama sama my prayers. I was praying today. And yesterday this these this sense within the I'm totally blind. Yeah, I times completely deaf.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:53

Yes. I can't hear you. I can't see you our way forward. Am I going what will it feel like I'm in a dark tunnel?

Steve: 12:00

Strangely, it's not quite so much that with me, it's it's more with regards to direction. I've come to the point where God knows my it says your audio or your steps. It's that isn't it so much. It's there's an old course old course. It's not over my eyes. Lord. I want to see Jesus. Yeah. So there's a sense of wanting to see him within myself. Yeah. The Apostle says that he's not either live but Christ lives within me. And it's that need to see him in me.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:41

Is that cry again? Yes, the call is the call. It's this. It's the hunger it's the desire for more of him. And as you said, the Scripture says Seek ye first the Kingdom The More I Seek Him, the more stable I am. Oh, yes. And then I don't if I can't take my eyes off of him. I can't if I look at what's happening in the world almost think that Oh, I could crumble some days with with the the bleakness but it's not bleak. Because the Scriptures tell us.

Steve: 13:05

I think this is probably one of the reasons why Christians have the problems that they have in as much that like they take. It's simply said, but it's difficult to explain. They take their eyes off of Jesus. To have your eyes on Jesus in the first instance. You have to know, believe and understand that he is God and King a lot that we say these things in this sort of Christianese, if you will. But there are a lot of Christians out there that if you ask them is, is God sovereign? No, say yes. But then when you start asking them questions, they don't say I'm a sovereign at all. Some don't even want him to be sovereign at all. You know, it can be sovereign in certain areas, but you can't be sovereign and other it can't have that. Yeah. Whereas the truth of the matter is that God is God of all our life. every part, every atom of my being, every soul, every feeling every aspect to what makes me my relationship with my wife, my relationship with other people. He is God and I want him to be God. And Lord and sovereign. Yeah, you know, it's like, um, when we talk about being slaves of righteousness, and the numbers of times have come before God and I've said, Look, you are God, you are Lord you, I need you to command me I need to be commanded. Yes, I can't do something out of my own imagination. I can't. I can't. This idea about Delight yourself in the Lord to give you the desires of your heart. If we pick it up in the next one, it says, trust also in Him and He will do it. He will bring forth Your righteousness as the light and your judgment is known die. And Dan in verse 23 says the steps of a man are established. And he likes his wife. So it's this whole yielding.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:10

Surrender. Yeah, every literally lane. Everything that I've got as a human into and upon Christ. Yeah.

Steve: 15:17

And that's not easy. His thing is it's, it's easily said it makes me cry easily desired to but it isn't easily done.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:27

It is the biggest battle that I have is the complete surrender, not because I don't trust him. I don't know, I don't know how to get this out. I don't know how to explain it. It's not because I don't love him. It's not because I don't trust him. But complete surrender that my character. And the person that I am, is not that I'm a control freak, that I'm trying to control everything. But um, push, push, push, push, push, and then suddenly to step back, and to lean into him and to trust Him for everything. Sometimes I can cry when I'm on my own literally. Because the truth of

Steve: 16:03

this you can't do it. No man, can you see no man connects. As I said, it's easily said it's easily designed. But the only way that this can come about is by the Holy Spirit. Only he can do it. And it's a case of crying out to Him. Please, please, please needed to be done. Yeah, because I can't do it. I can't I can't do it. When he says about if we look at God and the work that he does in mankind, every single work is impossible for man to do. You know, it says do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Try to renew your own mind. It doesn't work. You can't do it can't do it. You know, it's not a brain surgeon. You know, it's a mind surgeon. Yeah. Your mind surgeon is God. And so these things are only done by him. And the only way that we can honestly know if we are desiring it is if we do come to that place

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:02

of of the of whatever, then obviously, he can't do it. I can't do it. I can't let go of this. I can't release it. I can't. It's very strange isn't a sign. It's not It's mystery that I know is here. I know he's there. I know. I know all that I get that. But just just handed him stuff. I find it so difficult. Some days, Lord, take it. I'm frustrated and weary, tired, my thinking overthinking over computing everything, Lord, my fears.

Steve: 17:40

What you're going through what we all go through? Is that transformation? Yeah. Okay, so do not be conformed to be transformed by the renewing of your mind. So that transformation, God doesn't do it all in one go. If he did it all in one go, it would wreck us we wouldn't know what to do. Now, the other point as well is that if he did it all in one go, we probably wouldn't give the glory to Him. We've We've done it ourselves. And so this idea of wrestling with God is a necessary aspect of our life. Because it it asks us the question, do you really want what you're saying you want? Are you willing? Are you willing to? I mean, are you? Do you really want God as your sovereign? Do you really want God as your look? You really want God as God as He is God? Yeah. Or are you playing the religious clip?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:33

Are you are you playing the religious one?

Steve: 18:35

And, and God takes us through the trials and the testings to find out? If what we're saying is real. He knows he knows it's proven to us. Yeah, whether we believe it

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:45

or not. So he already knows. It's all part and parcel. But there comes a point doesn't know when, as you said, we've looked at this. We're on a journey. Yes. Our entire life, as a believer is a journey of learning, of obedience, of trust, of surrender, of enduring of being on the potter's wheel, yes, shaped and molded. And in that my my translation reads slightly different to Steve's and it says, verse five, it says, commit your ways to the Lord trust in Him. And He will do this commit. Yes, it's that. Yes, Lord, that's it. Yeah, it's not lip service.

Steve: 19:32

Is it committing your why you are committing your life? Yeah. Why there is the life that you live that when you're committing that into his

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:39

hand, bringing that to him and saying, This is yours. Yeah, I'm yours. I'm your instrument. I'm almost scared where I'm unsure. I've got to hand it over there is like sometimes you feel like a car running out of fuel your your spit in your splattering, but this is it you're taking

Steve: 19:59

what you're going through his reality, I mean, so many years, so many songs over the years, I've picked out a little, it doesn't work like that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:08

And can I be honest, the more you want to give it over and hand it over to him, the more it is lit up. You've right Okay, Lord, I got to give you my frustration. So I've got to give you my, my plan. And I've got to give you everything. And the more I want to give it to you, the more I realized I'm entrenched in it, and I didn't realize I was trapped in that. And I can't free myself from it, because I can't. So what he's showing you is that you need him he is impossible. It's impossible for me. Yes,

Steve: 20:41

it is impossible with Him. Yes. Beautiful. And it's the challenge of the Scripture, this particular scripture in the world that we're living in at the present moment, with the the complete and utter destruction of our society, which is coming. The the fact that there's going to be food scarcities Yeah, we are probably going to end up with a digital currency, we are going to end up with definitely, with a one world government, we know that this all of this is taking us towards the end and towards the revelation of the Antichrist. So we know that all of this is, is preparation for it. The problem for human beings is so often we want to look back, we want to be like Lot's wife. We think

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:44

it was interesting that it's cut it was his cargo bag. Yeah. And,

Steve: 21:50

I mean, the Israelites did it when they came out of Egypt. And it's that sort of thing that God challenges us on? Do you? Do you want to go back to what was, quote, normal, unquote. You know, so many people, if I can just get my holiday, if I can just, if I can just get this, I can just get that and so on. And I'm sure there's plenty. There's plenty of people around today. You know, Christmas when Christmas comes, it's going to be a great time. It's going to be a wonderful time. When it's not, it's not. Again, it's the question is, you know, where do you find your peace? Where do you find your joy? Where do you find your, your deep desires?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:37

Yeah, that place of complete rests? Stillness? Yeah, certainly not in a world certainly not in the things that are going on. We've all looked at it. We've all maybe experienced it and dabbled in certain areas of light, but it's just feeds the flesh is very, very strong. Yes.

Steve: 22:57

Satan certainly plays a part but so much of it is our own flesh. Yeah, you know, we desire to go bang, you know,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:05

go back stay there. Perhaps

Steve: 23:07

it wasn't quite as bad as I thought it was. Maybe Maybe if I go back and try again, it might work out this time. And of course, we all entertain certain thoughts in certain ways. We know that salon Tosh is you know, it's isn't it? You know, there were no melons and cucumbers back in Israel, you know, none of it. I personally would not want to go back to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:36

It's funny, isn't it though? Actually just don't look back. Don't turn back. Don't look back. Don't think about it. Don't but the don't that don't don't became a doe.

Steve: 23:46

Net. And she and I don't get the sense there was any great distance between between her a lot and her daughters now, she just turned back and suddenly gone what she's turned into a pillar of soul and his lot standing here. I mean, seriously, if you think it must have actually broken his heart when he saw it happen to his wife.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:06

What Yeah, yeah. We could spend hours actually thinking and talking and work in that one throw that she became a the human disappeared like that. Gone finished. Everything that they had together just just gone like that. Finished over. Not gonna continue anymore. But he has to continue does. He does it must have broke him. Shattered him he did. It tore him. Yes, I believe but he had to keep going. This takes

Steve: 24:42

when you go into further what happened between him and his doctors. There's a lot there. I don't really want to go chasing that one. But these these old thoughts these old wise, they need to be eradicated. Teach from us. They need, you know, the reason lots doctors were the way they are is because when I grew up, yeah, the influence of that town

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:09

very interesting. So the outside influence can easily influence the inside. If it does, it can very, very easily. So that so what was on that table at that particular point with their father and these two that we don't want to go down, but so we need to be very careful, don't we the outside environment can easily swayed us towards that worldly way. Yes. So keep your eyes on Jesus. Oh, yes. Because as soon as we come off of Jesus, and we're looking at the Sodom and Gomorrah, that's within the UK, because we are seeing some Yes. But what is global there is around the globe, I have to be focused, because it's so easy that they grew up in that environment. And that environment like we got with all this gender issue and all that certain age brackets is their normal this. So they grew up there growing up, just like them girls grew up in that and everything going on, it was their normal. So what's wrong with what we're doing, because it was the way that we was brought up or what we say. So the outside is very strong. And it it blinds us, doesn't it?

Steve: 26:23

So it's seriously because of the technology. The technological age in which we live. The the amount of stuff that is coming in to the average person is so destructive, even on just on mainstream news, mainstream news is so deceptive, and so filled with lies. And it is pushing an agenda. That obviously site wants pushed. But as far as they're concerned, they're seeing if it's a government thing, and it's a world thing. But, you know, just sitting down watching BBC News, or Sky News, or ITV News, or NBC or whatever you've got in any other country is disruptive. Yeah, I haven't watched mainstream news for years. I don't watch it. The only thing I've got an app on my telephone for BBC News. And I'll go through it just to see the headlines.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:31

Yeah, just happening, what's happening. And then

Steve: 27:35

if there's something near that, I feel that I want to look at I'll then start searching internet to get some understandings from it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:42

But you're coming from the biblical view on you're coming from that because you're, you're also looking at where we sit in the world and what's happening and what's going on here. They're everywhere. But if we don't look at take it like that, we can get easily drawn into all this stuff that's happening. So the app, the news is one way where we can be captured, for fear for what's happening through herding. So the outside environment as it was for the two girls was affecting their being. So we have to literally close ourselves out. So where we have read, commit your ways to the Lord, trust in Him in, in all that we do, is everything we got needs to be laid in him and on him. But as you said to do that is a different story.

Steve: 28:25

It is it's a daily thing. It's an hourly thing. We talk about repentance, their repentance is often spoken of in terms of turning away from sin. But the real positive aspect of repentance is not so much the turning away from sin, but turning towards God. Yeah, yeah. That's why our life on a daily basis has to be one of repentance. We're not. I mean, if we're repenting of sin every single day of our lives. We need to get ourselves so you know, yeah, what I'm what I'm trying to say is that, you know, your life has to change, there has to be a change. There are times when in prayer before God and he begins to show the depths of the sinful nature. Yeah, a neck grieves. And then you cry out to God to take that away, because he shows you something that you can't actually look at yourself. You don't want to look at it, no, but it will show it to your neck. That's, that grieves you and your children. But it is this aspect. This aspect of repentance for the Christian for the saved person is to be constantly turned towards God. That's how that is really a repentant that's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:39

really the repent, isn't it that way, we've turned away from the focus on the ACT or whatever that was, and our focus is turning to Jesus. Yes. Were I excited again, Hebrews 12 to keep your eyes on Jesus. Yes, Lord, I'm turning back to you on coming to you. I'm turning away from that. That's the heart And that's like what we're talking about today. It takes what we call it. But that's

Steve: 30:05

the thing here you see, delight yourself in the Lord is actually an act of turning towards towards him, you'll Delight yourself in him. He's the one who, you know, I want him I'm turning towards him in this act, an act of repentance, of turning towards him and away from what the world wants me to do what my flesh wants me to do and what everybody else wants me to do. No, I'm delighting myself in him, because it's him I desire and it's him I sing. And so it's extraordinarily positive. You know, some people kind of think that repentance is, you know, sort of sackcloth and ashes. Repentance, it's full of senses extremely positive. It's a wonderfully positive way

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:43

of bringing us to Jesus. Yes, every

Steve: 30:45

time all the time. All the time. Yeah. And it isn't. Oh, woe is me a rotten. Alright, there are times when we live in Romans seven. But you know, you don't live in Romans seven forever. No, you know. And so there's that. As I say, it's a wonderful, repentance is a wonderfully positive thing, because it means we're turning towards God.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:05

And it's eyes off of us

Steve: 31:06

its eyes off of us and always offer them are always off everybody,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:09

and eyes on Jesus. Yes. So repentance can be quite a painful word, as we know, to a lot of people all because if I talk about that, and talk about repentance, I'm admitting it. But actually, when you look at the other side of that word, as you said, it is bringing us more to him. Yes, all the time more to him. In the word repentance don't seem to have a bigger blow that what religion puts upon it. Oh, wretched man, Amaya, and sackcloth and ashes. And there are times

Steve: 31:42

that's a place for that. But the real wonderful part of that repentance is on turning towards God. I'm seeking God. On my hearts desire hearts. These I'm

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:53

committed to Him. There's a lot packed in his text. Oh, yeah. It's jammed it.

Steve: 31:59

I mean, to be honest with you could you could spend a year on on the psalm itself. But if you look at the way these three or four verses are put in here, it is all about trust in him. Don't trust in yourself. Don't trust in what you see the rich men doing. Don't trust in what you see the wicked men doing. Don't trust in anything but trust in God alone. lies your trust in Him. Amen. Turn towards him. Yeah, delight yourself in him. It's my homies for his own. And that's the other thing you delight yourself in him for his own self. Yes, then you delight in yourself in him, you know, for what you can get out of, you know, but for the simple facts of our use, and you do like to be with him.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:49

Yeah. But as you as you get more into him into the Word and all everything that goes with that. He just let the blessings that flow is the piece that flows, that the love that you feel the freedom that you feel. So to actually commit and to lean in and hand everything over is, is so freeing of oneself. It's like the chains of broken, they're broken, I feel free, I feel like misstep. Even though life is busy and hard, and everything is still coming towards us. We are trusting an AMA our faith is in him there is a peace in in our hearts that we've never had before. There is a calmness about us there is a sense of it's okay. We will get through

Steve: 33:37

it's knowing going back to what I was saying earlier, it's knowing that he is suffering. And he cares for you and me. And he is God and Lord, and He knows what's good for us. And we trusted him implicitly. Yeah. Now, as the site's easily said, it's easily desired. But

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:02

the action the action can take hours, months years. But it's a progress isn't it miss very much I've been alerted of it. I need to deal with this, but I can't deal with this. But the way that I deal with it is committed me to him. And he deals with that. He he takes that away he He enables me to be able to look more into him rather than look more at me. And that situation the more I desire him, the easier it becomes and before you know it, of experience there suddenly a thing. That desire that worldly thought it's actually gone. I actually I felt the that I'm free from that. Yes, the freedom but it isn't always an instant understanding. Suddenly you go hang on a moment. What is different about this? It's not I haven't got that earthly pull anymore. I haven't got that, that string that rope like I can, I can feel the resistance is, is cut it, the umbilical cord to what was feeding me has been severed. Yes. And you feel the freedom. So supernatural, isn't it?

Steve: 35:17

Of course it is. Yeah, that's the wonderful part about it. Again, this is the point because It's Supernatural. And we can't do anything about it. He came to them, where you trusted him to do it. And again, you might say, Yes, I can.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:31

Can you? Can you? Can you undo us?

Steve: 35:35

Is God really sovereignty does it. You see, it's something I was reading. A little while ago, there was a famous author Arthur W. Pink, back in the 20s. And he he wrote something which, which I, which kind of challenged me at the time, but sort of made me think he said, Do you realize that when you complain about the weather, you're moaning about God?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:56

Oh, my goodness. It's raining. Oh, no. Oh, it's freezing. Oh, no. Loader

Steve: 36:03

losing charge in a Willa ology injustice.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:06

Yeah. Never. Never thought about that. Here we've ever had going on here. Last night. I afraid it is really cold. I mean, you brought

Steve: 36:15

tears to all freezing. I really need to be kept warm, please. Don't moan about the weather in itself. In itself. The weather is God's choice of what he's going to send, you know, he said, sent this storm, all in who we will the things called on to Great Britain. And there have been people three or four days without power off. Tremendously sorry for him, you know? Yeah. In freezing conditions. Yeah. And I'm sure there are Christians are locked in it. How they deal with it. I'm not going to instruct and they need to work that out. We've got It's all very well for me series zero. This is what you should do my friend.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:57

That's we've got the one for life. Yes,

Steve: 36:58

we got all. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:02

an individual journey.

Steve: 37:04

It's an individual journey. Yeah, I'm sure amongst people out there are Christians who have similar laws, you know, you're in control. And it's tough at the moment, but you know, help help us and give us

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:14

wisdom. Yeah. Yeah, it's very true, isn't it? You look at the weather system, and all the staff that we want to go down, really, but, you know, save the planet. And all this jargon, these old strap lines that are out at the moment, I look to Him in everything he's created.

Steve: 37:31

As far as Christians are concerned, just remember that he set the bounds of the seat, they're not going to overflow. He's already said that so far. No further. Yes, story.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:39

Exactly. He's, he's put he'd done everything. And he's still continuing. So it comes back to the same thing when it comes to all your everything. Your worry about climate, you're worried about family, you're worried about your job, everything you've got, bring to me, yes, come to me, all of you that are weary and heavily laden, I will give you rest

Steve: 38:04

it again, without wishing to strain the point. In all of this, am I coming to him? For my prayers to be answered? Or am I coming to him for himself? The fact is that you will answer our prayers. And he will, as he promises to in this song, look after us and watch over us. But we come back to that. What? What is your first love? Is it is it for him? Irregardless? That that's the very challenging thing. You know, so very easy to say when you're in a warm room, and you've got plenty of food. Yeah, but when you're stuck out there in the middle of the ocean, and you know, the waves are, yes. Raging. And you know, your pitch black and you don't know what's going to happen. Am I gonna make it? Yeah. Or you're you're trying to deal with a child that's very ill, you know, or you got a broken marriage? Yeah. And all of these scenes,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:57

businesses are collapsing. Yeah. It's, it's, it's very different, doesn't it? It does.

Steve: 39:02

And this is why I say that these things. I, I think God is has been very gracious to us during this period of time. Yeah. Because he's giving us a chance to deal with things in our lives, so that we are strengthened by him. So that when the emergence of the Beast system is complete, and we see the rise of the Antichrist, we shall be strong. I don't, I don't subscribe to thought that we will be wretched before the revelation of the Antichrist. The way I read two Thessalonians two does not speak of that to me. Also, along with, I think revelation 13 or various other things. So as far as I'm concerned, we are God is graciously challenging us, graciously strengthening us graciously using this period of time to allow To search ourselves out before him, come back to Tech, we crossed this bridge several times to test ourselves to see if we're in the fight or you know, it is an extremely gracious time that God has brought before us. Yeah, definitely. It's, we are extremely blessed by it. And it is during this time that we have the luxury of being able to ask ourselves some very, very serious questions.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:33

Yeah, and that that's challenging in itself, isn't it? Lask in the serious questions, because this is putting everything into him upon him and around him and to ask the serious questions. Lord, I need you. I need help. What I seen at the moment is affecting me. I'm worried about A, B, C, and D. But Lord, I need you like never before. So the openness is so tremendously important for the believer now, isn't it? Definitely open Yes. To be open we

Steve: 41:05

also easily easily we deceive ourselves, obviously, we think there are times when we think Oh, right. shines a light on I saw one says I thought we would have another look. I think

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:20

I can hear the gasps, you know, have another look. They look within, as we know. And as we challenge ourselves and speak about it's frightening to me to turn my eyes on me. Because but you need to Daniel, it's you've got to win again.

Steve: 41:37

You see this? It says this. The whole point is if we're coming back to if God is Sovereign King in your life, and he already knows what you are, whilst we might have a certain trepidation, we shouldn't be fearful. In actual fact, we should welcome the light to shine, because it helps it it causes us to be set free, you shall know the truth and the truth, the truth shall make you free. It says the truth shall make you free. And this idea is that that is it John, where it says that men would not walk into the light because their works were of dark darkness. Whereas the truth of the matter is, I bring my darkness into the light. Yeah, before God, because he knows it anyway, there's no point in trying to hide it from Yeah, so I bring my darkness into the light. And I say Lord, here is a brief before you seeking your forgiveness and your help cleanse me purify me whenever you need to do in my life to make me what you want me to be. Lord, do it please up a seat you to do it, I cry out to you to do it. And it's it's these testings and these times that God, do you really want this Sunday? You really want to do your own playing games with me. I know what you mean. But do you know

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:57

Yeah, and it's not lip service? Is it? From the heart? Yes, it's from the heart because we know it's not about letting people know, oh, this is what I want. But actually, does my heart die of a heart after God? Yes, my heart desire is more of him because we can all speak it and talk about it, can't we? But then the reality of it is is what is my heart saying?

Steve: 43:23

We we touched on something last week about losing salvation.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:26

Yeah.

Steve: 43:27

But the question of every Christian should ask themselves as honestly, and as boldly as they can. If I could lose my salvation. Am I more fearful of losing my salvation? or losing Christ? Wow. And depending on how you answer that gives you an idea of where your first love is. Yeah. Because he's, you see, the thing is those two, those two questions are very close together. But there is a difference.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:06

They are so close. They're almost inseparable. But there is a different there is a difference difference. I need Jesus

Steve: 44:14

that my most afraid of losing Christ

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:16

losing Christ. I know actually, he's nothing isn't Yeah, so it has well we know that there'll be someone that would answer that differently. But for me, I have to have him Yes. It has to be him. Yes. I can't do this. Like I literally cannot live without him. I will crash

Steve: 44:39

to I've got no

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:40

con a con but living for Him and wanting more of him. Alerts one thing very clearly that a wretched man and my God, I need you. Even while I'm sleeping. They went to my eyes in the morning just just getting ready for the day. God please needs to cry and the cry from the innermost being that from the depths of the depths of the depths of one's heart, the burst out is Lord, I need you. And it's it goes beyond lip service, doesn't it? It has to it has it's not just it's the heart, the heart, the heart,

Steve: 45:22

it's very easy to to give the religious answer. Very easy. It's very easy to give the religious.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:29

And I wonder how many people have given a religious answer. And as their lips are speaking, they're coming under conviction that another thing isn't there yet. We say the religious one, but literally feel what do you do with a conviction? What do you do with a conviction? Well, I'd

Steve: 45:44

say at that time, you are in a most blessed place, because God is bringing conviction upon you because he wants to set you free from something. So

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:51

even that within itself is a glorious thing. Oh, yes. Very much. Yeah. So my lips are saying this, my hearts go no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So we know that there is a separation between the heart and the lips that could the mind and and the way that the mind makes the lips move. But the heart knows that. I can't say that. But why have I said that? Now I've acted in anger. Now I've acted, I shouldn't have said that, why my lips moved. But your heart knows you shouldn't?

Steve: 46:19

As I say that, you know, to answer the questions that we brought, if you answer them in a religious way, yes, I want Jesus and I want, I want more of them, and so on and so forth. You'll know inside of yourself, whether you're telling the truth. And are you hiding yourself from it? Or are you are you hiding it away from yourself? And if you know it's there, you are in a most blessing place. Because you are in a place where God is poking you literally wants to set you free. He's not poking you to condemn you now, because he wants to take it away.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:00

now no condemnation now no condemnation. So it's a it's insurance. It's Love is everything. Even when my lips are rattling? The Wrong answer. And your heart may be going no, no, no, no, no. He's still working when your lips are moving. Yes. Glorious if you're

Steve: 47:21

born again, and Christ lives within you. As the Word says, He who began a good work unusual performance all the time. Jesus Christ, absolutely beautiful. You know, that is that is something that you can have complete confidence in, that you will never stop that work. Or how many years ago 35 or 40 years ago, there was the Archbishop of York at that time, they came out with a statement every Christian should have every Christian should have a sign around his neck. Caution God at work?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:52

Yeah, that's a good, that's a good one. That is really good.

Steve: 47:56

It doesn't stop.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:58

It doesn't stop now. Praise God. Steve, the time has escaped us. 50 minutes, is just like a snapshot, a window of opportunity. Steve, we thank you so much for sharing this, you know, and God has really spoken through you. I know. It's difficult press when I say that. But I do have to acknowledge a great Bible teaching when when it is given. So we thank God that you have been obedient to that. And that is, thank you, Jesus. For this this time that we've been able to gather around the mic. So wherever you are today, if you want to explore a little bit more of that, please, please just send their messages in as you have done. And we thank Steve from the bottom of our heart for joining us today. We've all the bits of noise in the background noise. I think it was not too bad this afternoon, wherever you are, keep downloading. If you need Steve, you can find him quite easily here at eating church through these podcasts. So thank you, Matt. Thank you very much, Steve. We we appreciate that. It has been great. I've really it really touched my heart. I've got to be honest that you can probably gather that either couple of tears at one point in my eyes because it was like God was speaking to me. And there's nothing finer nothing finer. Steve, we thank you so much. God bless you all take care. God bless. Thank you very much. Bye bye.

Close: 49:16

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