Yeah, good afternoon. Welcome wherever you are today. Thank you so much for joining us here at Elim church in Swanee. We got our good friend, Steve valor and through lockdown. We've been doing a lot of recording a lot of teaching coming from Steven, we're so blessed to have him in the house today. And my name is obviously Reverend Ben Cooper, we thank you so much for joining us, wherever you are today. And I've been mentioned this, the last few times been recording this. Thank you to everyone that's downloading these podcasts. absolutely mind blowing, we thank you so much for the for downloads and the listening, and starting to get some feedback as well. So wherever you are today, may God bless you. And the title of today's podcast is faith in the life of a Christian Steve, good afternoon.
Steve:Good afternoon. Good afternoon, everyone.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Away, let's go straight in.
Steve:I've got about five scriptures that need to be read. And it's a discussion primarily on the area of the necessity of faith, really. But there's one thing before we start last week, I was talking about how it is that you know, people say I'm believing God for this, and I'm believing go for that. What I was really getting at was the sort of omit and climate lock. Also saying that we don't bring our our prayers and supplications before God that we don't believe that he's going to answer I mean, Hebrews Hebrews 11, six it talks about you have to believe that God isn't a rewarder of those who seek Him. And it's understanding that God will answer our prayers. Yeah. But it's it's like you were saying before we came in here, it's not sort of I can see a Rolls Royce on my standing outside my house and unbelieving god for that Rolls Royce, or whatever it is, you know, it becomes a nonsense.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He so right there, Stephen, not that I got caught up in believing for a Rolls Royce. But I got caught up in that. And you know what it was just for revelation from God's word. But as we've said before, God allows us to journey the roots. And then suddenly the curtain is opened. And we see that the real truth, don't we hang on a minute added I'll get caught in that had but but actually, it's the path of certain believers in it to go these different ways to experience to see to then come to a point and go actually, that is a load of rubbish. This word is actually true. So you can't manipulate that you can't believe for a material possession. And God's not going to go there. Ben. Well done. Thank you very much.
Steve:Yeah, this idea of visualizing something. Yeah. And then bring it before good. Buddhism or
Reverend Ben Cooper:isn't it? Magical? Magic, all that Christianity. But as you so rightly said, and we know that it's perfectly okay to say, Lord, I need I need a new job. Can you give me help? Can you help me with your
Steve:crime actually look for a job or not? No, no procedure and criteria in saying that. You have to know. I spent 28 years in a job that I hated. And I cried. Because nobody listened.
Reverend Ben Cooper:28 years.
Steve:So there were times when he says no,
Reverend Ben Cooper:no. Now that's an interesting thing, isn't it? How do we cope when God says no, that takes five doesn't it to keep going, you just you endure? And as we've said, You got to keep going?
Steve:I mean, you could say at the end of the day that he did answer my prayer and as much that when I'm 65 I'm sure right now you can retire. interested? But anyway, we'll start off in Romans one. Yeah. And verses 1674 I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from face to face, as it is written, but the righteous man shall live by faith. Now, if you've got your NIV
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I can pick it up. What do we want?
Steve:If you read that? Verse 16, sorry, verse 17. In the NIV, it's, it's, it brings a different so in Hebrew landing, no, no Romans one.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Let's search it. Romans chapter one, verse 17, verse 17, let's pick it up. Let's get it out. This is raw stuff. So here we go. And we are in the NIV and the NIV V reads like this Romans chapter one, verse 17. For in the Gospel The righteousness of God is revealed a righteousness that is by faith from the first and last, just as it is written, The righteous will live by faith
Steve:yet. So this idea of from face to face has been divided. But in in that one and I and several other translations, it gives this idea that fight is constant. It's a continuous a continuous thing. It's a one off. Yeah. So you live by face, in Christ. Constantly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:All the days, your life, every heartbeat Every second is a continuum of living by faith. Now I've got my head in my hands, because I'm thinking, Lord, how often do I come out and bounce? Good, this is a this is a tough one to speak about. Because so often I I literally can go, I just feel empty. I just feel faith less. But that's just part of being a human being, and then
Steve:we'll touch on this later. But that's feelings. Feelings haven't got anything to do with faith. Faith is you believing in God? Feelings is the way you think. Okay, so that doesn't, that doesn't. But seriously, he can care less. He's not bodily in that regard.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So so that's a comfort then to understand that we are in faith, even when we may think that we are not because we are believing in God, that is the prime that is the focal point. As I said
Steve:before, it's the old paradox. Dear Lord, please help me off. Forgive me. I'm doubting you again. You're going to God and telling him you doubt and but there's the paradox.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. You know, because the word faith straightaway to me from the background that our got been brought up and come through the Pentecostal Movement is that name it and claim it. Jesus is healing you right now. So as soon as we talk about that word, faith, straightaway, I'm thinking of prosperity gospel, I'm thinking of the healing and all that. But the real root of this is, I believe in God. Yeah, that's the start
Steve:face, this face starts is, this face is given to us. Yeah. And through it, we believe in His sacrifice, yet, through it, we believe in. He has saved us, he has washed us clean in his blood. Through this fight. We believe that God is continuing his work as it says in Philippians, you have begun a good work in your performance of the dove Jesus Christ, this Act, which is basically an act of sanctification. Yeah, it's an outworking of our salvation. And then we continue in that phase of trusting in Him. So we fall off the trip twig, and we glorified golf last winter. We don't need face anymore. That's why it says in Corinthians, love, face love and hope. These three abide by the grace of love these these love because at one point, when we die, we don't need face. Yes, we're saying we don't need hope. Because we see an order reminds us later love.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So faith and hope is for this this world. Hope is for this work. Excellent. And to make it very clear faith is given? Yes, it is given at the point of salvation. Because that's that's quite, you always look sorry. It's quite interesting, isn't it? Because well, how does this start? Where does it come from this seed off?
Steve:No one comes to the sun or the father draw him. Okay. And that seeking that many out seeking law, that God drawing them on? Yeah. And he has already begun a work of laying down faith.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes. So this is
Steve:a sage Spurgeon what Spurgeon was famous for saying that, you know, we don't know at which point our new birth begins, we only understand when we come to a realization of salvation.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And that's what we're talking about. And we're thinking about a lot and I'm getting very clearly in the pulpit. It's, it's that altar call moment. It's not actually that altar call moment it that is the realization that the Holy God exists to the human body. But where did this actually start? Only God knows.
Steve:I mean, we will touch on it. We, if we pick it up in Romans 10. And for those that really want to study this area of face, Romans Galatians, Ephesians really aren't. And Hebrews Of course, as well. Right before whoever will call on the name of the Lord is verse 13. Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved. How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, How beautiful are The fate of those who bring good news of good things. However, they did not all hate the good news for Isaac Z looking back at Yeah. For Isaiah says, Lord who has read? Who has believed our report? So faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Yeah. Okay. So we have to begin with a thing that not a lot of people are keen on. Come on. Most, most Christians don't like this idea of, you know, I think they've got some sort of inherent face. Yeah. Well, you know, if you're, if you're if you're dealing your sins, you're dead. You're dead. You know, if if you want to know what been dead, he's like, we'll go down to the local graveyard. No, look, that's what dailies and the equivalent that he's been doing since. So how do we obtain face? When we did? Kotnis? Okay. Yeah. So here it says, Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Now this word of God is either when you might preach it and expound on a particular scripture, it might be when people are reading the Bible. But the point is that God has to give you the ability to hear in the first place. Agreed, yes, right on once he's given you the ability to hear. Yeah, through that hearing, he gives you the face. So face comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So everything is given. First, there's a God gives this God has to be the first one to architect to move in a in a human's life. As we know, in the Scripture says, We have never gone to God and said, Excuse me, Jesus, I've decided to follow you. Okay, so now I'll yeah, we do that. I'm glad. So this is very encouraging, though, isn't it is very clear teaching. And I find this, this gives me a happy feeling to my heart to know that he found me, he gave me salvation. He's given me faith. But then we come into the area of seeking because when it says, Seek ye first the kingdom, we can't do that, even until everything has been given.
Steve:When Jesus was when he was walking on the earth, he was as challenging Zen as he is now. Yeah. And he would say things. For instance, when he confronts a group of people. In John Tanner, I think it was 26. And they're complaining about him and Mr. Hale, and prior to that he was talking about you don't you don't believe me because of the signs. And then he says, he says, this is very challenging, and he says to them, you don't believe? Because you're not part of my flock? Wow. Yeah. He doesn't say, if you believed you could be part of my flock,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you don't believe because you are not part of my you're not part of my flock. Wow.
Steve:And so in actual fact, we just did, let me call it up, because it's the whole context of it. I've read some very strange teachings on this. But Jesus asked them said, I told you, that you do not believe that. So I told you, and you do not believe the works that I do in my father's name, these testify of me. But you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice. And I know them, and they follow Me. And I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish. And no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand, or and the Father are one.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There's a lot packed in that. There's a lot.
Steve:I've written very strange teachings on our movies really one the other day, and this check came came in. Of course, it this doesn't mean what so many people think it means what Jesus is doing here. He's challenging these people so that that they will believe when you read that he doesn't say this
Reverend Ben Cooper:in a clear statement twice. Yeah, I picked it up twice. You do not believe or not believe you are not part of. Yeah. And if Christ is telling you, you're not part of you, you're not getting you're not in.
Steve:So we come back to this business of faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. And thus the Word of God is preached and the Holy Spirit in some miraculous mysterious way. Gives is the number of times when Jesus was was preaching and he would say, He who has ears too. hear, let him hear now. That's a very strange is you in my 500 People now, I'll be sure to like chewy arrows, but and they must have been people saying What's he talking about? Oh, he is funny What's.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So there's a difference in isn't there between hearing and hearing God? Yeah, but you can only hear God when He calls when
Steve:it gives you the proper ears to listen well yes,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, yeah
Steve:in Galatians.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So then we have again, Faith comes by hearing. So when we look at the word hearing there is a an earthly, natural hearing, and then there is a hearing that is higher, where God is calling you this interest in that crowd. How many times did Jesus preach to a crowd and say that? If we can hear you? Yes, but we're not really you're not?
Steve:We can hear you. But we're not listening. We're not listening.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's a really interesting text. Actually, I'll have to dig about around that. Because this is the thing
Steve:that when you know people technical, most people will take that text and I say, Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. Yeah. But they miss out the point about faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. Yeah, you have to be given the ability to
Reverend Ben Cooper:hear to hear. So again, clarifying everything that God gives salvation, God gives five he gives this he is the first one that makes this happen, work whatever way we call that. That's why
Steve:at the end of the day, when we look at the whole area of salvation, yeah, it's holy of God. It's none of me. If I have faith, it's been given to me. So what am I going to what am I boasting about?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah. All right. So it's not by works. It's not by financial. It's not by academics. It's just pure. God gives. Yes, he gives any gifts. And again, there's
Steve:a lot of people, those are more I don't like that I should be able to choose God. Okay, if you've got if God has given you the face, thing, go ahead. Yeah. But at the end of the day, sit down and consider where your face come from comes from. And if you think that you have stirred it up, yeah, you've got a problem with a product giving you that fight. And you've got nothing to boast in your cost all. It was part of my face joined up with Jesus on the cross. That's how I got saved. You sound
Reverend Ben Cooper:like a bit of a tele evangelist with a tribe they come out with more or less basic that unless I noticed what you're you're you're pushing towards there. But I love I absolutely, this makes my heart smile, I feel so at rest to know that salvation isn't and cannot be about me working my way through or my skills or my ability. Listeners it has been given. It has been given.
Steve:I mean, the when James talks about his faith, and he basically what James says, is that you you tell me, you got faith. And I'll tell you, I'll show you my faith by by my works. What he's saying is the proof of the fact that faith is at work in my life, is proven by the life that I live.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's, that's what that means, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
Steve:He's saying, you know, the proof of the pudding anything.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, I'm living for Christ I'm living.
Steve:And the way I'm living for Him, because let's face it, James, James didn't think much of his brother. True, you know, yeah. You know, you're so special to him. Why don't you get up to Jerusalem is where you're supposed to be. It's like most of his brother. So there was a change in giant.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's great the way God, Holy Spirit, Christ uses these characters, when you really look at the characters. And you look at at their character, you'd think, Oh, my goodness, and God's using them. And that gives us comfort that God uses the characters, the unusual ones.
Steve:This is one of my favorite verses in scripture. This is from Galatians 220. I have been crucified with Christ all day, and is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. And the life which I now live in the flesh. I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself up for me. So this face is in the Son of God, this what said earlier that you have this faith in Him for your initial understanding salvation. Yeah. You have this faith in him constantly for your walk in this life has said, Yeah, you know, it is not I who live but Christ lives in me. So there's, this is why He said, I've nothing to boast about Christ lives in me. I've got nothing to look at myself. And so look how clever I am. Look how good Oh, yeah, yeah. If I'm, if I'm living a righteous life, that's because Christ lives in me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm very interested. I'll pick that up. Right. I still live in the flesh but it's Christ living in me. So there's no supernatural happening to the body. Like, a lot of these preachers serve you we are still in our skin, we are still the flesh and blood but above all that now we have the power of God to overcome the temptations. So we don't become very difficult I word this How would you work this superhuman?
Steve:When I basically what is how do we get a new nature, don't you? Okay, every behold all things on you. Yes. All right. So, some people say that, you know, there are two Nigeria vie for now, but we have one major and some new nation and we live at that new nature. Yeah. What unfortunately, we have is the remembrance of the old guy the impinging upon his case, and we have to seek to die to on a die myself.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Sorry, die to self DIE, DIE
Steve:basis. Yes. Because that self that own man, that well, whilst he's dead as you have it, getting out of the grave, but I am in it, I live in a new nature. This man has got nothing to do with me anymore. And I fight and I struggle in prayer and seeking God. So this old man has no dominion over me anymore. Amen. Because I am a new creation. I don't have two natures, I just have this one that keeps coming back to remind me of who I was. And aggravate in my flesh.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's reminding is aggravating. There is not two natures, I am and your child are the living costs. Yeah, that's important to understand. It's very important for everybody out there. And when we say a believer in God, we know exactly what we're referring to the God of Israel. And so we have been chosen, we have been given salvation we have been given faith. So we are completely safe. Yes. And as we said before, about can't lose your salvation.
Steve:No, I mean, what's the point in God's giving you faith to believe in the Son that has died for you and taking your sins? Only then to pull the rug from under your feet? Sorry, Sorry, pal. You got it wrong. You didn't get it? I mean, basically, that's, that's what you've got. I mean, your home and guess what you got will say, Yes, you don't know that you're saved. You can't know that you're saved. The the. The Armenians also believe that you don't know that you're saved. There. It's not fair to say all Armenians think that because some of them do believe in assurance. Yes. But in a classic situation. They don't believe you because they believe you can lose your salvation. So if you can lose your salvation, you've got no sense of assurance. So you're always striving you're not resting in a drawer. I say you're not living in Crusher. You're forever striving
Reverend Ben Cooper:you must petrified of course, am I gonna make Am I gonna make it? Oh, I've said something. I ain't gonna make it. I've lost it. Yeah,
Steve:I mean, this is the problem that what I often ask people, okay, you say I can lose myself ation. You know, I've been I've been till you're too proud. You walk your feet. You can't lose your salvation. The Lord is what he does. It's not mine. Yeah, you know, I live. Why? Because Christ leaves me of Christ lives in me. Then he can sort it all out. Yeah. Okay. I've got to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I've got to work it out while he's working it you know, I understand. This isn't this isn't a passive
Reverend Ben Cooper:relationship. No, it isn't. So if, if that was true, and they believe that that I could lose it. As soon as I got it, I would have lost it.
Steve:Yeah, they because so often, they'll say, Yeah, well, you can forswear Christ. You can, if you look in the area of Hebrews six, where the where the author is talking to the Hebrews about, look, now you started going with Christ. Yeah, you cannot go back to the old sacrifices. If you go back to the old sacrifices. You can't come back to him yet, because it's where you look for your salvation. And the warnings are there in Hebrews are there for a purpose God, God warns us and if we pay attention to the warnings, it proves the Spirit of God in us, you know, people, you go out into the world and you warn them that God is gonna kill them. They could not really give a tummy toss. I laugh all right, they don't care. Not worried right now but if you read something in the world, and it makes you tremble Yes. Which it does it does it it draws you to the Lord. Don't drive your way draws you to him.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes, it has that drawing in. Yeah.
Steve:And in you, and you do create law. Preserve me keep me Yeah, I can't keep myself know. No matter what I do. You know, if if I go to all the preemie isn't read all the Bibles and I have all understanding. It doesn't make any difference other than you preserve me. Amen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's all about him. Yeah.
Steve:And as a CIO the number of times I've spoken to people so okay you believe you you know once saved always saved that that was it that's a doctrine of demons don't leave it basically because people like Lutheran cancel it they don't like it there's a doctrine doctrine of demons and then I asked him well how can I lose my salvation then normally it's a you just want to live a redline Christianity you don't you want to see how close you can get to the line before how and
Reverend Ben Cooper:so there's no there's no real biblical
Steve:No Why would I then say well look no in actual fact I want to know where that red line is. So away from it
Reverend Ben Cooper:keep away from it. Yeah,
Steve:right. Keep away don't go up to it. How can we lose this? Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what about when he says He who began a good work good work and he will perform it perform it to the day of completion?
Steve:Yeah, but again, you come down to the quote that I quoted earlier from John teen. No one can snatch you out of my hand. No, and no one can snatch you out of the father's hands. But they say I Yeah, but you can snatch yourself a minute that's not even in the text. When you get that from you've just added something to the Word of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. Don't add don't take away yeah, God made your
Steve:you're trying to prove what you believe by adding something to God. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You know, very clear, very clear. Text Steve as as mentioned, you know, no one nothing can snatch us out of the hand of Christ or out of the hand of the Father.
Steve:What gave me Romans eight neither height nor depth, nor nothing angels nor demons can separate from the love of God in Christ Jesus,
Reverend Ben Cooper:this is glorious, this discussion because it just, it cements everything and it just strengthens everything to know that thank God is not was sitting on me
Steve:the other the other thing is that in some areas of Arminianism, they believe that you can lose your salvation, you can regain it, so you can be born again again, again, again again. But they've got a problem. Because the Hebrews six which they say to me, see that proves you can lose your salvation says to them, Well, you can't get it back. You can't get it back. Because you're traveling the Son of God on the feet. So when it's gone, it's gone. So you, you know, if that's what you believe, you ain't gonna never come back.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Isn't it interesting how you can how you can get in a mindset? Because it is a mindset, isn't it? How they can so many people can believe that you can lose your salvation. And you can oh my goodness, you know, this, this? I can't, I'm a bit lost for words to when I'm thinking. I was
Steve:listening to an Armenian professor, as a scholastic professor, yeah. The other day. And he said, You know, it's not easy to lose yourself. I should but he never told you how you would lose any explanation of how you can lose it. You know, there's a you can forswear Christ. And you can you can, you can curse him and all the rest of it. Well, okay. Trying to curse Jesus, but he was still saved. Yes. Do Judas curse Jesus, and he wasn't there. Yeah. But the other thing is also the if the Spirit of God is in me. He's not gonna let me blaspheme the Holy Spirit. No, and he's not going to Mike is not going to let me for swear. It's also in times of prayer when we're in the number of times, Lord, you know, you get angry with God. Yeah, yes. Yeah. And, and you can actually hate what he's doing in your life. Yeah, yes, you can, you can get there. No, does that mean in that emotion that suddenly lost you? This makes no sense at all. And so it's you are either saved, or you're not. And salvation, as we've said before, was sanctification is ongoing, and we learn to grow. And we see things change within us. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So with the teachings with Christ speaking to Nicodemus, you must be born again. Yes. It's clearly about once, isn't it? If it was, if it was more than once Christ would have made that very clear,
Steve:hey, yeah, you must be born going. Going again.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's amazing, isn't it? How people can get entrenched and indoctrinated. And this way that they they believe, if that if I had that, on that one, we use the word faith if I had that, that understanding like like certain Armenians, I will be fearful to even open the eyes in the moment.
Steve:I mean, when I spoken to someone or spoken about assurance, normally the will I hope this will happen. I hope this will happen. And you think
Reverend Ben Cooper:so you're living your life in very in a very uncertain Latin faith, or no faith at all.
Steve:And strangely enough, I found in truth that with the majority of people that hold to that Armenian view, they say, they make a great deal about their fight. It's their faith, their same faith, the size of a faith doesn't save you, if it doesn't save you, by grace, you have been saved through faith. Faith is merely the conduit. Yeah, all the way of believing what God has done in Christ. Yes, faith is gonna pass away. And apart from the fact it's not yours in the first place, it was a gift given to you. So if you're going to make much of your faith, then you better make much of the one who gave it
Reverend Ben Cooper:you gave it to you? Yeah,
Steve:I mean, with regards to salvation, you'll find winning Armenian though, they'll talk. This, we've spoken about this before, about the synergistic aspect. It's, it's a bit of me and a lot of him. Where 99.9% of Jesus and point 1% of me, and I'll be honest with you, if any sin if, if my salvation of my sanctification is based upon anything of me, it's over. It's over. Because suddenly, I, instead of being a work of perfection through love of Christ, yeah, it becomes a tainted work, because I've got my big fat foot in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. Yeah, I've got my thought in it, I've got my temptations in it, I've got the flesh in it, I've got everything in here. I would, if that was the case, I wouldn't even get to the point of even being saved for a minute or an hour. Because I cannot see how a human being can stay in that posture for more than an hour, hour and a half, two hours, and suddenly something happened. Some thought, some word something, anger, pride, all that sort of stuff before you're not you're kicked out. Well, that's it, you'll be bouncing back and forth comes
Steve:down to. I've asked countless people, because the vast majority of people believe that way. Anyway, they're very, we are a minority women around. The vast majority of people believe that. And I've asked them over and over and over purely because I'm interested, I want to know, where's the way out? Well, how do I lose myself? I should know. Yeah, tell me. I want to know, I'm interested. I read the Bible. I studied the Bible. I've not found it. Can you tell me
Reverend Ben Cooper:in all these years? With Stephen with me? I can't even think of one area that could even bring a light and can't even spark anything. There's no Where is there? What?
Steve:No, again, we've got the classic one is the Roman see, sorry, the Hebrews six. But as I say the Hebrew six is used, in a way. It was spoken to the Hebrews and we spoke about this the other week, there's going to come a time with the rebuilding of the temple that Christians have to be careful, because if they start helping rebuild a temple, and they get enamored of the sacrifices that carry on, they could end up being drawn. Why or why? Because there are a lot of people that are enamored of the Jews. There's this this romance. Yeah, I mean, there's a Jewish Christian from New York and his name if I hope I'm pronouncing his name properly, moral battle stun, more battles than all moral ballast and one of them. And he said, it takes great umbrage at these Gentiles wants to be Jewish. He said, You can't be a junior has to be born a Jew. You have to be born a Jew, and being a Jew as it necessarily got any more advantage? No, because I saved all your saved.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So yeah, salvation is the same for whatever culture, whatever virtue first and for the Greek and for the Greek. Christ makes that very clear. But you're right, there is a certain romance isn't there around Israel, Jewish tradition
Steve:swinging of the pendulum. It's years ago, when we add replacement theology or we act the rest of it. Then it swings back the other way. Oh, you know, we're in love with them. And we, you know, we got to wear a yarmulke and all this or any other and we won't ever cross up, but we'll have, you know, a candlestick up and all of a sudden, it's yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's the same thing is it in a lot of the church is a romance of this. And that I'm gonna be
Steve:honest with you. I love listening to Jewish I love it because they bring in an awful lot that I don't understand. It's because they bring in there's a lot within the Word of God. Yeah. Which is, for instance, when Jesus says about your eye, you know, if the eyes don't and whole whole, the body is dark. Well, that's about being from my understanding. When I read it. It's about being giving you what's the word?
Reverend Ben Cooper:You're not mean you're not Yeah, you're not mean. Yeah. So you are you are right. And we know we know that that listen to someone that come from a Jewish background that they they have a lovely way of expressing and and that's that draws you in alone.
Steve:I mean, there's a guy I watch on YouTube his name's Baruch karoq. Yeah. And he started out as a rabbi, and was saved. And now he is a messianic Christian, or Jewish Christian, wherever you want to put it. And he brings out I love listening to him, because
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's got some depth as well. Yes, clean, clear data. And I love listening to
Steve:it. It's great. And I glean a lot from it. Yeah, definitely. And so, you know, I'm not I'm not, not You're not Jewish people yell, but I'm just saying, you know, you, you're Gentile, you can't become a jerk.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, no, that's not trying to stop Trump.
Steve:The other thing I would like to bring out is Ephesians, two, eight to 10, which is the classic one, for grace, you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves is the gift of God, not as a result of works so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, so that we would walk in them. Now that verse like there, For by grace, you have been saved, face, and neck, not of yourselves is the gift of God. Now, there are several theologians that say, what this means is that your face is given as a gift. Right? Then several other theologians will say no, no, when you look at the Greek text, and I'm not a Greek scholar, by any means, but what it's saying is that, that Dwight really should be read. And he's like this, For by grace, you have been saved. and that not of yourself, because he's looking back at the Salvation is a gift of God through faith. Right? All right. And I looked through either a dozen translations, and the one that I thought would, if it's going to say it's the way these other theologians would say, it's got to be in a literal translation. But the literal translation says,
Reverend Ben Cooper:this, this it says that it says this. For by grace,
Steve:you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves is a gift of God. And basically, it comes back and and re emphasizes this area that faith is given.
Reverend Ben Cooper:To me that is that is a clear text. Oh, yeah, that is very clear. But like we've said before, certain theologians go down rabbit holes that you you have to stop
Steve:that but yeah, yes. And no, you you have to go down with them to understand what they're talking about, and try and grasp
Reverend Ben Cooper:it. You find that some though, go down there and you think, actually, you're quite learned. But you're going too far. You're trying to pull something out that's actually sitting there. And that's another area that we've got to be very careful that you Well, that's why
Steve:you know that business no one can snatch you out my head. Yes. They add things in your two dogs to the tune. But yeah, there's nothing in the text that warrants it. Yeah. It's finished. It says it. Yeah. That's it. It's done and dusted. Explaining. And the other thing about it is that no one can snatch you out of my hand when I am one. And if I'm one, he said, You one called snatch, you want out my hand down. Right? It's a done deal. Because I'm one Yep. That's an inclusive, inclusive and inclusive statement. Very clear scripture. Very clear.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We are saved. And then Steve has brought this one beautiful to the table Ephesians chapter two, four, it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this is not from yourselves. No Praise God. And then it is the gift of God yes, that's a statement that finishes that off.
Steve:It's because the point the other reason why from this whole area of faith here is because he then goes on to talk about works. Yeah, okay. These works have been prepared beforehand. So if like some people say it's my fight, which saves me fight has become a work Yes. Yeah. Fight has become a work. Okay. So if fight has become a work, it's already been prepared before and by God you're still got nothing to boast, I
Reverend Ben Cooper:still got nothing to boast about. So you can just state sit right
Steve:there. Not by looks, but we go For we are His workmanship career. In Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. So if my face is a work, yeah, because that's what if face if my face say it saves me. Yeah, it's not Christ. If Wi Fi says mean that's all work. Okay, so let's say his work well, God has already prepared that work for me. I'm walking in here. So so what I think the most about
Reverend Ben Cooper:this just comes around to the same place, doesn't it? Yes, you can elongate you can go all the way around. But you still can't get away from the fact that it's a gift. It's a gift. It's a gift. So, but they add and then they take away and they manipulate and they stretch and they divide. Why? What, what four is? What is this? Why? Why can't we just are not saying that? Why can't it just go? I'm safe, good, good pride. You've said it, pride. And how powerful is that spoken about in the Word of God?
Steve:George Whitfield said we're all born Armenians, we only become capitalist by the grace of God. And I've said this before, not counts. But I am a monetarist. And I, I I probably am more in line with a lot of Puritan work and appearance statements. For instance. If you look at Classic Reformed theology, it is it is anti semitic, because yeah, many of its replacement, replace replacement theology. And I don't believe in that. I don't believe it at all. But I believe in the single act of Salvation by God alone without my help. Now, that was preached by Luther that was preached by Calvin, many people say, Well, I can't take that because of the kind of lifestyle that Luther looked at it, or the kind of lifestyle that calculate was I disagree with the way he worked. But the light Puritans came along and said, No, Cohen's got that wrong. The Jews, there's still God as a finished with Jews yet. Spurgeon said that when I asked when he was asked about the Jews, and you're going back 1860 1870 There were there abouts. So it's, like 70 years before the Jews went back and there was absolutely no Charlson. You couldn't see that there was any Johnson get back. And he said, If God says, they're going to go back into the land, they're gonna go back in if God says, they got to go back into the land, yeah, you know, they're gonna go back and go back in the land. You know, he believed that, that he got it not finished with the Jewish people. And he had, and he hadn't know. And so, you know, whilst you can look at certain recoveries of truth that came out of the Reformation, you don't have to sign up to the whole thing. You use your brain. Yeah, you know, you look at the scriptures, but you don't kick it out, because I don't like him. I mean, seriously, we were talking about the just shall live by faith. Well, if you really, really don't like the way Luther was, and you're going to dismiss everything, he says, then you better dismiss that because God gave that to him in a position of recovery, that will recover to the church. Yes, that was wasn't it? All right. That was recovered to the church. Yeah. Oh, oh, no, I can't shut that out. Because by grace, I've been saved through faith. It's faith, faith, Joshua lived by faith, not by works. And so people becoming consistent. There are things in Kelly's life. I'm not an avid of I'm not saying she Knox's life. I'm not an Evanov. I was I was I don't like the way Calvin developed. His political understanding, he said, was he said, If God is sovereign man, he's free. And then he went on to develop? What essentially strangely enough, the way the American Constitution and all that because it was those people that came from here that went out to America that founded it, the way they live down American, and it grew out of the founding fathers. Yeah, yeah. Well, not the Founding Fathers before before that the pilgrims, and they went out there, and they looked at the way things should be, they read the Word, and they came up with this idea that you know, man's free and therefore, undergoing should be able to govern himself. But it all goes pear shaped all goes
Reverend Ben Cooper:even when he said it has gone wrong.
Steve:And so, as I say, they're a certain thing. You know, initially, it's a very attractive thing in a perfect world at work. But there are things as a soul within the reformed position I don't agree with but If you're going to take the whole of the riff reformation, and chuck it out in a window, because you don't like the people God used to recover truths,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you got problems, you serious, serious problem, you
Steve:got problems. And if you don't like the fact of God's sovereignty, but you have got to bring your will into it. And you got a follow up.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Sheet. Oh, this is really complicated. It gets really, you can get weighed down, you can get a stressed about, am I going to lose it? I've got it on might not I don't know, to our die. All this stuff that's out there when Jesus just says just believe yes. You can't get no more. It's
Steve:one of the reasons why there's a lot of people doubt their salvation. Yeah. Because they they're not. They've got no solid ground. This the ground they stand on is forever shifting is forever. I don't know, if I'm saved, I will only be saved when I get to the end of my road.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What what are the what are life to walk your life.
Steve:I mean, i, even do david preach that once he preached it out of he was using the text out of Pilgrims Progress. At the end, Christian is supposed to cross the river I can't remember years and years ago, cross the river. Any corner post and it was you know, if he hadn't made it, he wouldn't have been saved. I can't remember now. But I saw I can't I'm sorry, I can't take this is a constant. I'm either living in my salvation which Christ has given me now. Or I'm living in a fool's paradise. And I'm only going to get it when I get to the other side. So that's what the Muslims believe. That's what Meramec Catholics believe. I'm sorry, this is a nonsense, it makes no sense to me. You were bought with a price you bought with a price here is so many texts that I love that your book would APPRISE that means he owns me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm a slave to richousness
Steve:ima slave to richousness
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow, wow.
Steve:There's an awful lot done, like this idea of God assurance for salvation doors. So if you want to put it, like don't like the sovereignty, you've got, you've talked to a lot of Christians. And you say, Do you believe in sovereignty of God? Say yes. And then you start asking them certain questions. And they'll say, Well, actually, no, I don't.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I don't. And some people go, What do you mean by sovereignty? Yeah, in you can tell that kind of straight away. But for me, these discussions, and especially because they're rooted in the word is, I have a clear assurance that my name is stamped in the Lamb's book of life. The power meant then it brings into discussion. What about repentance?
Steve:Repentance is we spoke about this the other week, repentance is ongoing and history. And it is as a city the other week, the positive aspect of repentance is you're constantly turned towards God. Amen. Yeah. You know, the other thing is, I know, I know the corruption of my flesh. I know my choice. Stinking Yes, God. Yeah. Outside of Christ. Yeah. So I don't live this careless life. Oh, I can do what I like. Of course, someone calls my wife once. Oh, you just you it means that you can go and sin and do as you please. And, and you're still recycle. Now. You either hate what you do. If you don't hate what you do. You ain't saved.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, damn a load. Yeah. And so,
Steve:this this idea of again, you know, I it's a little bit like, it's a little bit like the brothers in prodigal son. Okay, okay. Yeah. You know, the eldest son, I've done this. And I've done that. And I've done this. And I've done that. And he's, and he comes back and you bless him and all this, that and the other. Yeah. And the father says, Son, but you had everything anyway, it was all yours. It was always your your striving. And so this idea, you know that well, you can go away and use your please God you, you because that's what you really want to do? Don't you want to go down a path you want to go? Now? Actually, I've done or I've done that. Thank you very much. I've died to know the emptiness of that. I don't go back to it. I know the emptiness of sin. I don't want to go back to it. Does it mean that I don't symbol? No, because there are times when I get angry. I've got a wrong thought. I say a wrong thing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So so the so this is easy to understand that salvation is given. Faith is given. Repentance is ongoing. Our walk is ongoing. We can't lose our salvation. But we aren't growing moment by moment in Him because He who began a good work and you will finish this work.
Steve:I will say this. You can lose your salvation. If you think you're the one that's got to maintain it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You're done. Yep. All right.
Steve:We have a command to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Yeah, whilst God works in us too willing to work He's good pleasure. So we come together in agreement or praise God. We come together in a guy come to him and say, Father, yeah, what I see within me. i Yeah. Okay. I need you to deal with that because I can't. Yeah, Amen. All right. And it's not necessarily, as I say, an act and a sin action. It's an understanding of a sin condition. Yeah. That sin condition from the old man which keeps coming back, which I don't want, and I want to die. Yeah. So whilst I am this new creation, I am being bothered by my flesh, by my flesh life, I don't want to die to it. The only one that can cause me to die to it is Christ. I cannot do that. Praise God. All I can do is cry out. Please do me what is needed to be done, cause I can't do it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:beautifully put. You know what? The time has escaped us. 50 odd minutes, gathering around the mics, you know. And as we always say, if you've got any questions, you can catch us here you can catch dv. And we thank you so much. So there we go. Brothers and sisters. Steve, we thank you so much for that in depth study that that just snippet, a snippet. Remember, these are just snapshots.
Steve:Yeah, yeah. You must study yourself and come to your own conclusions. Good advice. You know, you must, you must don't live off of what other people say. You don't agree with me. disagree with me on Scripture. Not on you don't like it. Don't feel right.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Perfect. That's right. It's not failings is not opinion. It's biblical fact. Yes. That's what it comes to. We thank you so much. We're here. We're off. We're making our way out. So we will catch you again next week. Thank you so much for the downloads. God bless. We'll see you soon.