Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:16

Hello, where are you today? We are in the house of the Lord. We got a good brother Simon Pinchbeck. It is Reverend Benjamin and Anna Cooper and we are coming straight out of the barrel of truth. Hashtag Christian Straight Talk, Simon. Good morning.

Simon Pinchbeck: 0:30

Morning Ben. It's great to be back and your work done in the in the church and things are moving forward very quickly

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:38

and very quickly, really, really fast. Organized Chaos.

Simon Pinchbeck: 0:42

So there's a few bangs and bits and pieces. Come in. We know is you just reshaping the church as the Lord has told you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:49

very, very clearly. We have over going today the scaffolders are out there, and we have the air conditioning guys, the heating guys, we have the bricklayers the carpenter is in the house.

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:00

And with these guys who come into the church, yeah, he's not godly men, but they got his motions, and they're really nice. And

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:10

yeah, it's an interesting conversation that's breaking out.

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:13

Well, you know, on the front of the scaffolding, yeah, there's a big flap and Jesus is King. Yes. And where did that come from?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:21

That came from a little wobbly brick there on a Saturday, that that just so happened to have any pocket a massive flag when you've been on the source for a few hours.

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:34

I mean, we're not asking him where he got it from.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:36

We're not asking him where he's from. I wonder where it came from. But it was no, it was in the packet. It was no, it was in the packet. And yeah, what can you say about that? It's like the church has become a magnet. Can I use that expression? For what is going on? What's life all about? What's happening? What you're doing an alien? What? It's just, it's just with the food project. It's with everything that is going on? It's just like there's been this massive conversation that's ongoing. It's really interesting.

Simon Pinchbeck: 2:11

So we've got blokes here, Ben. Yeah, never set foot in a church. No, never never stepped foot. But they're under stepped foot in a church because they wanted to do some building where they

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:19

want some cash or Roni, some dollars. Yeah. And their work here getting blessed. And I getting blessed. And the conversation is opening up and we're having some deep and some very interesting conversations fantastic. Without the religious, rigid ness and everything that goes with it. It's just real life characters. Just asking the questions without without the church pressing and pushing the farm. Have you got a church? complete reverse complete reverse, you've

Simon Pinchbeck: 2:48

got to do that. You've got to do that you got back to certain way. You got to be a certain way. Yeah, what you're saying is come as you will

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:54

just come as you are. Come as you are absolutely just come as you are. It is so powerful. God is moving. And it's so great to be here with Simon and Simon Says you might hear some external noises. We are literally on the front end of the church in a tiny room. Just recording this and every room has got major disturbance at the moment. So this is a really critical time for us. So we, we do value your prayers. We do value your prayers that God will continue to do what he's doing and he will. But just everything just continues and there are no hiccups. But this is real life isn't this real life? podcast a real

Simon Pinchbeck: 3:30

life and we're talking about real life and we're into a load of stuff on courage at the moment. And yeah, that one today is the courage to let go. And we'll explain. Yeah, I was looking at from one angle Ben, we was talking about one angle but it exploded and the courage to let go was like a golden, you know, yeah, yeah, it was we're gonna wait as we do we normally crack on with a scripture and Proverbs 356 Word of God. You know, they say it's a real popular. And he says something then that is a go to Scripture.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:13

assignment is to scream go to, isn't it go to so we're in Proverbs chapter three. And Simon is going to read it from verse five.

Simon Pinchbeck: 4:21

It says, Trust in the Lord with all your heart with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:33

What a couple of texts that are packed with hours of conversation, for lines there before line, trust in the Lord that that is to give us encouragement straightaway, isn't it I trust in the Lord everything is breaking out within the UK, two weeks before Christmas, the stress of business the stress of life. So that takes courage to let go of them thoughts, doesn't it? Totally. So this bring this word Have the courage to let go. This is an envelope of all of our life. This is every area of trust in the Lord and let go of absolutely everything is

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:11

what we've been saying for many times, ours is in the garden, letting go of self because the next line says, Do not be wise in your own eyes, fear the Lord, Lord and depart from evil, it will be held to your flesh and strength to your bones. Honor the Lord with your possessions. And with your firstfruits or your increase of your increase, so your bars will be filled with plenty on your fat cyber flow with no one. It's all about letting go of self.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:39

So there's a word in there. That is so powerful, what Simon has just read, he said, This will bring health to your body, and nourishment to your bones of well being. We are looking as a world for wellbeing, mental health, all these big hitters that we need peace. And the courage to trust in the Lord will bring health to your bones, nourishment to your being so

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:06

amazing. Isn't it amazing?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:08

When you look at that scripture, Do not be wise in your own eyes. Know, how often are we always trying to do things in our own strength? So we're tired. How many pastors at this moment have literally turned to drink? How many pastors have you know a little snigger there, but they

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:28

turn to you for advice on that. Yeah, I Oh, if I was you, I do this because that's what I do. No, no, no, no. We say it all the time. Again, you first get a call. Pick up the phone. Yeah, dole Jesus. It's Lord help me. It's as simple as that. And it says it. Yeah. It doesn't say it doesn't say it will be helpful to your flesh if you do yoga. No, no, it isn't. So

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:54

many times we don't meditation just says,

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:59

Fear the Lord and depart from evil. Fear the Lord.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:03

So as I fear Him, the progress of shiny No evil will happen. Because the more I look into him, the more I let go of self, the more I have the courage to let go of my life. I think wrapped up in this in this message This podcast is the word obedience

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:23

does totally asked to be obedience. And if you want to know anything more on the fear of God, look back because we've done a podcast on the fear of God.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:31

We've done a lot, haven't we? Yeah. But the courage,

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:35

the courage to let go, you know, if we can be in situations that the world would say, we are crazy when God says move, we move so we could we, we could have it all. Yeah, but if we're appealing to God, and God says, Move, yeah, yeah, we moved a world of go, what are you doing?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:55

Because it's that salmon. That is swimming, swimming against gates society. It will look odd to society. If I'm a true Bible believing believer, if anyone is that, in that position of Yes, I'm a believer in Christ, our complete life will will feel the weight of the water of life pushing against us, because we are going against the tide every day. But he gives us the strength He gives us the ability, he gives us the strength and it gives us the courage to go. I'm letting go of everything in my life. I'm letting go of the war, the worry of finances, I'm letting the worry of Christmas gum netting the worry of just every area of life and not only worry, I'm letting go of temptation. I'm being drawn into temptation I'm being drawn back to my old ways I'm being drawn down that road um, I've been tempted with a little job somewhere else that I could get more money and then I could get bigger or I could get more it's

Simon Pinchbeck: 8:57

that's huge been you know that the temptation to to grab it something Yeah, that's there now that's easy. It's easy money or to the eyes good to the eyes. It's gonna guess gratify the flesh for new

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:13

car. New one a few more job. Yeah, no, it's their material, New Life.

Simon Pinchbeck: 9:20

We don't look at the consequences a lot of time do we just reach out and grab it? Because we're the Lord saying,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:28

Yeah, we're in we're in where are we are a hole in the wall society where you punch in? And you get you get Yeah, you get I want this now I'll have it now

Simon Pinchbeck: 9:38

that I've been I think the Lord saying to people through this podcast that they you let go of addictions and you may not even realize that you're addicted yet. So same as the Holy Spirit. What is it? It might be TV, you know, it might be social media social massive, isn't it?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:56

So how many of us, may me are addicted to that rascal of a gadget called a phone.

Simon Pinchbeck: 10:05

That's big in

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:06

its light. Because, you know, rolls my life. It rolls me on, I need to turn that around. Because if I cannot, but I need the courage to go, I'm not going to touch it for now. It takes courage to leave it.

Simon Pinchbeck: 10:20

And you know, and here's the here's the thing. You're even sitting down with your with your wife in the evening, or just relaxing, having a bit of watching maybe a little bit of TV or, but you're on the phone. The catcher

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:35

is out on the press present. Oh, yeah, no, you're not present. And then, and then you go out for a family meal with the kids, and the youngest in the family sit in a highchair and what we plunk in front of them an iPad,

Simon Pinchbeck: 10:48

or how many times have you seen that? How many times been Have you seen that? The mom, the dad on their phones, the kids on the tablets, no conversation,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:56

no conversation,

Simon Pinchbeck: 10:58

you know, we have to have the courage to say no, but that you know, it's got so bad that if I see a mum and dad out with their child and the child is is doing some coloring or do some writing or whatever I say to the parents, you know, well done well done nice so different and I go wow, you know, yes, he does have it but we we monitor it but yeah, it is different. But yeah, you know, if you look in the Bible, is this some great this some great stuff about people letting go and what the Lord has done with them. And you know, we've mentioned it before, but Abraham, you know, Abraham Fenn was a really tricky character. He was a very unusual man, you know, he was the guy that you know, he let your sister he let his wife be known as his sister

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:51

to get him to travel. Travel. I love this. I think God knows listen to these podcasts, but I love that. He's manipulating a situation for his own gain. Yeah. And God said he's my son, I'm going to use him. I'm going to bring out of that man. So much.

Simon Pinchbeck: 12:12

And he was finally a big one. Uh, you know, finally Yeah, he was funny. So So what he's done more than one occasion Yeah, he's he's fobbed his wife off, sister. Yeah. And then these wife who says I can't have a baby but sleep with my

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:29

love if I got it. Oh, God.

Simon Pinchbeck: 12:32

more attractive. Probably. And he was he was right on it. You know, he didn't bang about and there was a child came out of that relationship, which was Ishmael, which is obviously his firstborn. But then then it turns around, then it because all of a sudden, Sarah, yeah, I can't. And all of a sudden, he starts to look at things differently Abraham and go down a different route, different tracks starts to be a Badinter Lord. And there's, there's all sorts of things going on. And he realizes he's got let go of Ishmael.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:06

Yeah. Isn't that interesting that this character is not a character that the religious or the business church would use at all. When you look at what he's what he's been up to, when you look at what he's been doing, but God broke out of him. And, um, but

Simon Pinchbeck: 13:23

all history, what is the Father, Father, three nations in the free nations when you use the Jews and the Muslims, you know, when you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:31

look at what has come from his life, but the church would never use characters like this at all, but God uses whoever he is going to use. So it doesn't matter what your past is, like, it doesn't matter what your present is, like, there is always areas of life that but God for this, we can see that through his journey with God, he became a different character.

Simon Pinchbeck: 13:56

Because it matters, what your heart is like, and there's a switch, there's a switch, there's a switch, and the switches flicked and, and all of a sudden, is is that to let go of a visual, and it must have been hard, you know, his firstborn son and, and we read if we read further on where Ishmael is in the desert, and his Hagar was going to just let him go and could die. But the Lord said, No, you know, I'm going to look after this guy and build a nation around it. And then, you know, I bring us to be obedient in another way than the so we ask, the Lord says, there's a sacrifice is only his second son, but

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:41

hang on a minute. Yeah, you've only talked just now you want me to? That is a powerful text, isn't it? Bad dad where we going? So the Lord will provide that but the the firewood here. Where's that? Where's the sacrifice? The Lord will provide.

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:02

It's that's very powerful. I got my two grandkids and we was watching that this particular one on on Superbook, you know. And I loved it, you know, and just right at the point where he was draw sword, yeah, there was around one and a half to replace

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:21

it with the man of faith that went right to the wire

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:25

right to the wire

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:25

knowing God will provide and I love the statement that he says to His servant, wait here a while we are coming back. Isn't that interesting that he had the courage to let go of fears to let go of what it was around him. He was he had the courage to let go of everything. But in the courage of letting go he knew he was gonna come back. It is such a deep tech stack, isn't it? It's

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:54

huge. Ben, and it's seven that what we said before trust in the Lord, to know of all your all your heart. And that's exactly what he did. Because how many of us in the place in in, you know, in a similar situation? Yeah, would have the courage

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:12

to take your family member. It says, first time me and Simon have been quiet for is like, hang on a moment. This man took his son to a point of where it was going to be sacrificed. Dad got we got the firewood we've got everything. Where where are we? Well, we know we just keep walking. We keep walking God will show us. But Dad, where's the sacrifice the Lord will provide? Am I willing to have I got? Or should I say Have I got the courage to let go of my anticipation. Because that's a big thing as well. The courage to let go. I'm anticipating God is going to do this. I'm analyzing as I got when I let go my plan. So I've got the courage to let go my god

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:03

have the courage to let go of your your life, your own and your own. Everything about us tonight saying this is my son?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:14

Yes. Yeah. And is

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:16

the is the deal, you know, in their parallel with

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:20

Jesus. This is actually the same way Christ, isn't it?

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:23

Where the father says his son, yes, just that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:27

Just let go, let go. Turn the face, hand him over. For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only begotten Son that whosoever shall believe in him. This is This is so nice. This is so fresh. This is so alive. That I've just got to believe just got to believe and I got to have the courage

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:49

any asking us to do much any more than that is he does not leave. We said before on another podcast. He doesn't ask us to understand now. He just asked us to trust to trust and coming back to that scripture. Yeah. If if if you didn't say any other scripture, start the day off with that scripture. Yes, I trust in the Lord. I'm going to trust in the Lord with all my heart. I'm not going to lean on my understanding. I'm going to acknowledge Him in all my ways and let him direct my path to doubt.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:20

What am I not? I need your father, I need you to

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:22

see some we'd see some action when we bend if we

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:25

would. Yeah, if surrender is the courage to let go of flesh. When I let go of flesh. I'm completely in the Father's arms completely in the garden completely in the plan of the Father completely in him. I just got to rest in Him. And I've got the courage to trust him. I've got the courage to let go.

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:46

Because if you have got the courage to forego get the false tension, it'll go right we can use this man now. Or this woman now.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:53

Yeah, this is the moment this is the moment. He knows that point that he is going to lead us to because the steps of good person that all ordained by the Lord. So there there is a trigger point in our life where we will reach that point where we will say I'm all for Jesus. I'm all for Jesus. Because that God takes us to the brink God takes us to the wilderness. God takes us to a place of stretching God, God brings us

Simon Pinchbeck: 19:19

this this subject is huge. And have you got the courage to let go of his self and just embrace.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:26

So by saying let go of self, you've let your letting and you're releasing yourself away from everything. family, work, money, you put it all in the Lord's hands on you're putting every but when you put it in the Lord's hands. It has been taken out of my hands because he will look after your business. He will look after your family. He will look after you he will look after everything more than I can look after me. And it and then. So it's almost a no brainer because when I hand it over It comes back, is look at the loaves and the fish.

Simon Pinchbeck: 20:05

It is a no brainer, but haven't yet because the flesh you've been, it's been years of training and programming to say that you've got to control that you want to control that the world tells you you can do this, you can control it. But you know, God's Kingdom is different. He says, I'll give it just give. I've given it to you. Now you give it to me and trust me with

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:30

Yes, yeah. So we've what you just said, we have to bring into this, this podcast, this biblical text, the feeding of the men and the women, the fishes and the loaves. They said, We don't have enough, we don't what we have is not enough. The fish still stayed the fish, the low still stayed the loaves, but it is the increase. So when they handed it over to the Father, to the master to Jesus, when they handed that over, what did it come back as still fish and loaves? Yeah. But it is that obedience of saying, what I have in my hands, I cannot do I do not have enough to get through the tissue. But as I hand it over to him, the father blesses that, but it comes back as fish and loaves, but it supernaturally increases. So by hand in the fish in the loaves, and the fish in the loaves represent so much, obviously, its food, it's sustenance, its energy is absolutely everything, we don't have enough, we are not capable. All we have is this. If I hand him, all I have is this, this is going to come back. But I've cast my bread upon the waters.

Simon Pinchbeck: 21:46

It's really interesting. And it's taken us down a route that I didn't think he would go, but this has got many routes. This particular curry select Go. David, there was a thing with David where he did would did he it was it the men he had to count or something out? Yeah, yeah, yeah, count them. And, and he decided to count them. And he didn't trust the Lord. Now did he know the Lord went out on you. And he gave him three options in the at the end the strip back, straight back, straight back. So even trust the Lord

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:24

he wanted. So what he wanted, he wanted the visual effect that I've got a load with me, I'm surrounded by strength, I'm surrounded, but no, strip back, strip back. But hang on a minute. The mathematics doesn't work out in this battle, that the percentages are not right. The enemy is so great, they will wipe us out. So we will we will take as many men into this situation as we can. But God says no. You're not going in in your own strength.

Simon Pinchbeck: 22:57

That's the key, isn't it? And you punished him for

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:01

he punished him for not being obedient for not

Simon Pinchbeck: 23:04

being or not trusting him enough. Now, and this was a guide at the Lord says is a man after my own heart. This is the king.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:11

This this is the shepherd boy. This is the one that sing God, time and time and time again.

Simon Pinchbeck: 23:18

It's very interesting, because, you know, I believe that that's a biblical principle that you've said in the spiritual principle. If we trust God with it, He will never leave us or forsake us. It'll always give us what we need, not necessarily what we want and what we need yet, and we don't have to sit in you've got to be wise in selection discern, you know, you've got to Wachovia, your bank account wherever but you're not going to sit there counting it each day. Not

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:49

because then the fear of losing a beer or losing the fear of losing it, the fear of not having it and then the fear of losing it. So there's two sides to

Simon Pinchbeck: 23:59

overtake you and you won't trust the Lord you just yeah, you have to

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:03

trust him. So the loaves and the fish you know, people can hold out Sunday sauce Dory that up but but the principle of it is, is give me what you've got. I will give you back what you gave me. But because it's been blessed, it will increase they will increase Yeah, it will supernaturally in crease. It is beyond human reasoning. So that text Simon has brought trust in the Lord with all your heart. Do not lean on your own understanding but in all your ways acknowledge him. That's your business. That's where your family that's where your life. That's where your thoughts that's with your temptations, my whole life. And we also need to just reference this as well where where Christ calls the the guys at the shoreline of Galilee, drop your nets come and follow me.

Simon Pinchbeck: 24:58

Well, that's really inch Rest in Van because you know is as Jesus's as 12 disciples. Yeah, to let go of what they're in and come on follow me. Yeah. Now, I know get men to do anything is not easy and I know do to get men to come on certain things I've got as five men before one of them recycles and things have to fit the place. Yeah. You know often say order sevens have to come on the One Armed Bandit, you know, so everything has to be right. So we did, they didn't say Jesus asked 60 100 men, but 12 came because he saw it because we don't get the other stories. But now these guys have these guys have given up, giving up giving up giving up they've let go of and have the courage to let go because they've seen a greater purpose for their life with this guy.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:52

But you cannot. You cannot say no to Jesus. When you think that these men were hardened, weathered fishermen that would have been grown up for the school of life, that school of hard knocks everything. There was in a harsh and in a very volatile environment all the time, their lives were at rest. They were strong. In their physical they was practical guys, but then Jesus just suddenly shows up and says, drop your neck cover me. And it says in the scripture. He sees it's so clear, it says that even the two the two sons of Zebedee just jumped out in the boat preparing their nets. And when he called them, they just left their father. And that was gone. The power,

Simon Pinchbeck: 26:42

that sort of text gets lost in it, but it does. But yeah, the power of Jesus go in, follow me. I just looked at each other. And I

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:52

mean, the net that's working with us, our livelihood,

Simon Pinchbeck: 26:56

we walked away from my family, they walked away from my livelihood.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:59

They walked away from everything that was of the natural world. And they put everything that they had in him, but they had nothing because I left everything is what

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:09

I'm saying, Ben, you know, have you got the courage to leave a marriage? To leave units? Yeah. And I'm looking in my life. And we're talking about you, as well, because you're going through that period now where you were letting stuff garbage. But then in 2014, I was in a ministry where for 10 years I've been in this ministry. Yeah. And the meetings, were there every weekend prison visits during the week, and you didn't have to do anything. It was just put your name down. And you were there. Yeah. Just and that was in a business as well, which was bringing in a nice amount of money. And the two were connected because the guy that was running the ministry also ran the business and I but I had my own business. Under under that umbrella. I just felt the Lord kept saying it's time to move. It's time to go your net. Looking at it. You know, I was walking out into What? What? Nothing. I was walking into an empty room into an empty room. Yeah, and but I'd had it all I've got you know, everything coming in. I got it. You know, God's ministry. Yeah. But I kept testing it and test it but then just couldn't get away from the fact that Lord says you need to leave so, so courage reached because, you know, my wife's gone? Well, we're gonna

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:32

do, we're gonna do what we're gonna, what we're gonna do, we're gonna do what we're

Simon Pinchbeck: 28:35

going to do, you know, what? Are you gonna replace going?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:38

What do you got? Got a bigger college, you got more money coming? We're gonna do what we're gonna do? No.

Simon Pinchbeck: 28:44

Unfortunately, she supported me. And you know, she didn't sort of go into meltdown. Yeah, but she supported me. And I walked out of the business. And it was pretty clear that I had to walk out that ministry at that time. And so I did two things. And what what happens then I think is the Lord leads us into a period of, you could call it wilderness or a period of where but don't if you're in that period, don't do what I did, because I tried to push

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:19

try to get to the end of that try to get Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:22

I try to get into other stuff. You know, I opened up a ministry of someone else and spent some money trying when actually God

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:29

just wanted you to be alone with him wanted in a sacred place

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:33

in this until the time was ready. Yeah, yeah. And I've gone went down quite a few paths. Because I was used to going out event freshmen, and it wasn't me so.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:47

So that was a very sure that was a massive wake up call for you. Suddenly, going from a very busy life, busy business. Everything happening, as all the buttons were being put And suddenly leaving a room that was jam packed with everything going on and then closing the door of that room and then walking across the corridor, walking into a room with no furniture, nothing, no future, nothing that you could see your naturalize just an empty room.

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:17

And it was interesting, it was over well over a year before the Lord opened the door to another ministry. And it wasn't our new hire to do this. But it wasn't an exact fit this other other thing, but what it did, it opened my eyes up to the, to the state of Christian men in the UK, and it led me to, to other places around the world. And it led me to you and and our relationship today today. So it's so where

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:50

the door is closed, bigger doors open, but it's having the courage to let Jesus close the door.

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:59

Ben, you're right. And I think I mentioned to you the other day, this during this past couple of weeks, every time I you know when in the evening, I'd look at my look at your phone, look at my phone, and it'd be 2222 at the time. And, and so I looked at that scripture, and it was Isaiah came out 2222, which is a forerunner of revelation 320, which it says these are the key, the keys to David all the hands that way closes, no one will open. And when he opens, no one will shut. So putting your trust and having the courage to walk away, that the timing has to be right for the Lord, He will open that door but you by my experience a period of where people are gone. You're just mad. What are you doing that you want everything there. But if you short, some a lot of you know God's happy for you to test it take

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:59

for the fleece. Yeah, Lord, I want you on a fleece and this morning to test it. I want you on the grass. Lord, I'm still not quite sure. So I'm going to just ask you again. Because that is a strong relationship of is asking Lord, I just want to check. So what you're saying there, Simon is the script that you pulled and you you spoken about is that God opens and closes doors. We understand that from the Old Testament. But in the New Testament, Jesus actually says I am the door. That's it. So everything is through him. So every area of my life, I have to walk through him I and I walk with Him. So He is the one that closes doors. When he closes that door. No man can open that. And he is the one that can only open doors that no man can open.

Simon Pinchbeck: 32:51

So you know then you're a true follower of Jesus Christ because you're one step behind him. You're not in front of him, like many people like I tried to be run in front of him and suddenly try and open the door and realize bagging on a broken leg.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:07

So that there's a corridor moment in someone's life. Yeah. The door is closing on this moment. Yeah. And we step from that room into the A to A corridor or porch way that then Christ opens another door. So from one door to another, there is a moment there is a time lapse.

Simon Pinchbeck: 33:28

And in that time lapse bin be saying trust me, trust me. Seek Me with all your heart Lord, I'm in a corridor. Just follow my son Jesus just be with him. He's got Yeah, and you know,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:41

can I change that word corridor? Even our walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for you are with me your rod and your staff, they comfort me

Simon Pinchbeck: 33:50

and that that's a great verse, Psalm 23, isn't it you know,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:55

it sets beautiful with the soul. Look at that, even though I walk through. So we are on a walk through.

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:03

But look at that. Look at that your rod and staff, they comfort me. So your rod and your staff, your authority, your authority and your discipline will comfort me.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:15

Yeah, I mean the corridor of the value of the shares, there's no word people like discipline. What we are in a nation of freedom. We can do what we like we always not go down that road. So so he is so right, the seven items, I am the Way the Truth and the Life I am the door. I am the good shepherd. I am the bread of life. So when we look at all this stuff, he is my supplier. He is my piece. He is my guide. He is my refuge. He is my rock. He is everything that I need. But I need the courage you to let go of self. I need the courage. Have I got the courage to stand in the corridor between two doors on wait for him?

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:56

You've had a bit of this just recently You have to, it's been on your mind to be prayed about it. But you've been encouraged to let go of certain things, certain

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:06

areas of life that I've had to walk out of decisions that I never thought I'd have to make of handing things over decisions of stepping out of ministry, decisions of stepping out of lifestyle, decisions of not going down that road. And I believe well, I know without any shadow of a doubt that I had an eight to 12 month window of opportunity to deal with this. And you know, that I've dealt with two already. Yeah. And there's three, and I've got the third one, I've got the third one to go. And I feel comfortable about that. Yeah. There are times in our walk in our ministry, as leaders as as brothers and sisters, just in Christ, where we're staying in a room too long. We're in a room.

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:54

That's very, yeah, it's very,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:57

and we stay in church too long. In religion, not too long. We stay in certain churches too long, when when. And also I said to Simon, before, we were just, just just chatting before the mics were switched on. I've actually had a vision where God's hand is going into religious settings and pulling people out of the religious organization, because they are so used to the room. And God is removing, and we are saying,

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:27

to follow Jesus out of that, then it does really take courage because at the end of the day, Ben, God's got a personal interest in each and every person. Yeah. And it's a personal plan for each and every person in your life, but it requires obedience. And it requires commitment, it requires prayer. And it requires courage to walk out of what you've known for a number of years into something that we've maybe you don't know too well, but the Lord's if the Lord saying,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:01

it's time to walk, it's time because our, our complete life is about walking. We do not walk by sight. We live by faith. So what my site sees is not relevant at all, to how my life should be.

Simon Pinchbeck: 37:21

Are you going to say, if you're listening to this out and if anything is touching you because this I think this is a great subject and a great guess. Are you going to say, No, God, your roots, not the right one for me? Are you going to argue it?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:35

Or are you going to argue that I've done that more times, I've made more mistakes in ministry in life, because deep in my heart, I knew. But before my lips moved on, made the mistake. There are so many, I'm going to come back to a bit of a press that we just had a moment ago, when I was speaking about a hand of God going into church settings and religious settings. I believe that there are, I would say there's quite a few denominations that are not preaching the word of God at this moment. And there are many of us that sit in churches and have been in churches have been in that same room for a long time. But the courage to walk out of a church, the courage to walk out of an environment, that you grew up through Sunday school, that your parents went there that you know, everybody there, the courage to go, actually, I've got to go somewhere else. I think that there are a lot of people in the context and in the box of church, knowing that through this lockdown, God is shaking the church and the courage to leave certain churches and denominations. It is really bringing a lot of distress. Because although there's silence on it, people are sitting in congregations not agreeing with what the denomination is doing. But they they can't find the courage to go. I gotta get out of here. Because where would I go?

Simon Pinchbeck: 39:08

Are you feel it in your spirit only event?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:10

Yeah. And there are many feeling that I'm really feeling it but it's funny and uncomfortable. So when in painful God, you got to trust God to

Simon Pinchbeck: 39:19

show you the best route.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:20

This is the that that I cannot imagine if there's any more. How many more pastors are saying, leave that church? If the teaching is wrong?

Simon Pinchbeck: 39:31

Yeah, I think I think you're right. You'd be right as if this is what I mean. I agree with Ben, I think this is what's happening all over. Not just this country of the world world at the moment and test it is it in agreement with a word is what's being precise with the words you know, what are the consequences if I

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:51

if I stay in this church? I am going to be fed. I'm going to be fed, not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:00

And now how will it affect others around me under? What is the point to you? Why don't waste two hours on a Sunday morning? You know, if I get into somewhere where you're going to be fed?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:12

I need the word of God. Yeah, I need to be fed. And

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:15

I think the biggest one as well is do you have peace with that decision? Yeah. Do you have that courage to do that? Do you have peace? And you use a shared a vision pen with the with the podcasters? Out there? Do you share the vision? And the thing is, Have you got a vision out there? Have you got a vision for your life out there? Because proverbs 2918 was saved when it says without vision, the people perish?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:50

Without faith, it's impossible to please God. And, you know, vision and faith. Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:56

If the if, if the vision can be understood, yeah. It's not really a vision. And if the vision can be achieved by you,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:03

and by the church, checkbook, vision,

Simon Pinchbeck: 41:08

God has to be in it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:09

It has to be impossible to the human eye. It has to you have to be the salmon. You there can't be enough money in the bank for it to be achieved. There can't be enough people around you for it to be achieved. It is going against the grain of living. It is impossible and you need people around you to say, don't be mad. Yes. Don't do it. You can't do it. Actually. That's right. You've given me confirmation. I can't do it. But greater is He that is in me, then he that is in the world. Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck: 41:41

Do you think do you think? No, I when he was building the ark? Do you think people go no spot on my

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:48

great job, you're doing a great job. Excellent. When we come in on board, what is that man doing? The sun is out. Part is happening. Barbecues are happening. We're living the dream. Everything's going on. Who's that bloke down there standing on the Word of God, he's building the boat we haven't had rain for years is crazy.

Simon Pinchbeck: 42:09

You got to yet if you believe that God's given you a vision, you've got to, you've got to test it, you've got to have the courage to test it. And it might you may have to have the courage to walk away from the situation that you're in. But your knees, it doesn't need testing, because we have an enemy out there who plan things in your your brain,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:30

and the enemy will do. The enemy will will make you look at the statistics of it. The enemy will make you do a flowchart, the enemy will make you do a five year plan.

Simon Pinchbeck: 42:44

Yeah, and the enemy will put a downer and damper and you'll be listened to that one or two voices of discouragement rather than but it will also do it will. There'll be folks visions will try to lead you off. You know, I know many people that have left jobs and jumped into something without really seeking seeking the Lord because they've and it's a god they think they're doing a godly thing. They're jumping into this ministry or that ministry, but God's not in it and six months down the line I realized that hold on to me this

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:23

so it comes back to a circle of trust and believe and test the waters Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck: 43:29

yeah. And looking at things and you know, we have to test test things you know, and there's certainly don't be a if either person don't be there if they'll be there to you know, be content and at peace with where God's leading leading you have the courage Yeah, you know, sometimes we have the courage to to to let go and sometimes you have to have the courage to just stay where we are, you know, this yeah, there's a COURAGING both thing isn't there?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:58

I think I'm not on a fire I think I am the other one that I shouldn't have done that. Well, why did I do that? Well, I shouldn't have done that though. Your Alexa shouldn't have

Simon Pinchbeck: 44:09

your your let's ask for forgiveness, not permission. Yes. So

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:15

let's run and do it.

Simon Pinchbeck: 44:17

I know. I see God going. Postbank going

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:21

is that the traps Miko the archangels all up. They're going always out of bed this morning. What we're going to clear up today are the Reverend Benjamin Linacre. But what next? Is he going to leave? What trail is he going to leave behind him today?

Simon Pinchbeck: 44:39

But as we come in, I mean, we were coming into this game

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:44

time 45 minutes, which is crazy.

Simon Pinchbeck: 44:47

But I heard this the other day I heard this from Charles Stanley and he said this he said, If you've made a decision to trust God with your eternity, which means you decision for Christ forever forever trusting with your daily life decisions to, and we've done

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:06

your morning and your afternoon, we know, we don't let's be serious a moment, you know, we are living in critical times this government is running around like headless chickens. And we are putting more trust, I'm going to say as religion is trusting more in science and ethics, and what they are saying, rather than looking at what are you saying to us at this moment? As a nation as as, as individuals, we we really are, we really are in spiritual crisis. Yeah. Yeah, across the board across the nation across the board. We it's not because we know not because God has left us. But because the UK has left him is pushed into one side is it swept him, but you can't sweep him out. Because he's in even with the, the broad arm of government and all, all society where they try to think that they swept him away. You can't sweep God away. He's still here. It's still Yeah, he's still here. He's still clearly here.

Simon Pinchbeck: 46:15

And, and he's working behind the scenes, you know, but without, come on. I guess we're coming into Interland. It might be good just to offer up a prayer for anyone who's listening out there anyone who's who's knows that they need the courage to let go, who really do you know of certain things in their life, and it's simply a matter of spending time with the Lord, when a time with the Holy Spirit asking him you know, is there anything in my life that I need to let go of, and we just say a little prayer for people out there, you know, Father, I am willing to surrender, to have the courage to let go of the stuff that you want me to let go of. All I want is your will, and to walk in your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus name, Amen. You know, even without, without God, if you if you live in a life without the Lord Jesus Christ, none of this stuff's gonna

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:13

work. No, no.

Simon Pinchbeck: 47:17

So we would, we would, if, if, if you want to turn to law today, we would ask you to just just embrace Him in your turn away from all the stuff that that that is wrong in your life and embrace Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Amen. Because we've got everything on the table,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:39

everything is on nothing is hidden up in his head now. And even when the New Testament writer writes, it is God is a mystery. But through Revelation, He reveals himself so he reveals himself to us. So God is revealing himself to every one of you. God is revealing Himself to you and he is he's with you, no matter what. So you know, great text we've been in today so much is springing out and this you can feel the feel the power of the Holy Spirit just given us the the drive. I don't like to use the word energy because so many people take that as a new age, terminology. You know, he is the Holy Spirit, He is the comforter He is, He is the Spirit of the Living God. And we just pray for you today. So wherever you may be, you know, catch this stuff, you know, you can find us in, in so many places crime watch, you can find it in prison. You can find us all over the place.

Simon Pinchbeck: 48:33

And don't forget the book, #Christian straight talk, you know, the first one man's talk. The second one is, as we as we speak, getting sorted out, which will be all fear. And we'll tell you more about that. Amen. upcoming weeks. But thanks again for listening. And we'll be back next week.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 48:49

We'll see you soon. You're listening to Simon Pinchbeck. And myself Reverend Ben Cooper straight out the barrel of truth. #Christian Straight Talk. Have you got the courage to let go? God bless