Larry Patrick is a partner and the healthcare provider operations competency lead at PricewaterhouseCoopers. He serves on the advisory boards for the Shepherd Center and the Georgia State University School of Health Administration. He is a board member for the Boys & Girls Club of Metro Atlanta. A former Auburn basketball player, he graduated from the Harbert College of Business in economics in1992.
Larry Patrick is a partner and the healthcare provider operations competency lead at PricewaterhouseCoopers. He serves on the advisory boards for the Shepherd Center and the Georgia State University School of Health Administration. He is a board member for the Boys & Girls Club of Metro Atlanta. A former Auburn basketball player, he graduated from the Harbert College of Business in economics in1992.
Narrator:
Welcome to the Harbert College of Business Podcast.
Currie Dyess:
War Eagle and good day everybody. It is your host, Currie Dyess and Sarah Gascon. Thank you so much for joining us today on another episode of the Harbert College of Business podcast. Today we are joined by Mr. Larry Patrick. Larry is a former Auburn University basketball star and earned his degree in Economics. He’s currently a partner at PricewaterhouseCoopers and Larry serves on the advisory board for the Shepherd’s Center and Georgia State University’s School of Public Health Administration, as well as being an active board member of the Boy’s and Girl’s Club of Metro Atlanta.
Larry, there’s a lot going on right now. Why don’t we just simply start with economics?
Could explain some of the larger problems within the economy because of what's happening now, the pandemic, the protests, the impending election, and some of the challenges that we face as a society at large.
Larry Patrick:
Yes. I'll start with the pandemic. There's good news, bad news. So the good news is that parts of the pandemic, the economy and where we were was fairly solid. There was nothing fundamentally wrong with our economy, and that's even the global economy for that matter. But with the pandemic, what you have, which is certainly the first time I've experienced it in my lifetime was not a gradual decline, which is what happens in a normal recession environment, but an absolute, almost overnight decline where we went from full engagement to almost zero engagement.
Certainly, in some industries, as you look at the airline industry or hospitality industry, it was almost overnight that those industries went to what would be considered zero productivity. As that begins, so where we are now with the pandemic, with seeing in many cases declining numbers, I do think we're on the verge of a vaccine that could be available as soon as end of the year. Then wide-scale deployment first quarter.
So as we're coming out of that, that built up capacity begins to unfold. I do think the stimulus packages that were used to help those that needed it is going to go a long way from the standpoint of us being able to recover. So I'm optimistic from the standpoint of where we'll be certainly by second quarter 2021.
So then you asked the questions around some of the challenges we're having with the challenges around race and diversity and inclusion. The pandemic absolutely highlights many of the underlying issues. So if you think about health disparities and some of the challenges we faced there, you can look at the data and the data plays itself out around the adverse impact to diverse populations, black populations, Latino populations from the pandemic. It's not that the disease is somehow more predisposed to affect those populations, it's the underlying systemic issues that are at play.
When you think about any prolonged delay in either a vaccine and/or in some cases folks will talk about herd immunity, and I'm happy to go into that if necessary. If that timeline is elongated, then the more adverse effect it's going to have on diverse populations. So anything that's taking place there is going to be absolutely magnified. That's something that we all need to keep an eye on, for sure.
Currie:
Larry, what are some of the lessons that companies like PWC have learned from the pandemic and decision makers like yourself have learned in order to be better prepared in case the unexpected happens again?
Larry:
I think there are a number of things. I had a great conversation with a client actually that does strategy for a living. She said, which I thought was very insightful, for the first time in her career she's witnessed strategy immediately converting to execution almost overnight. Oftentimes a strategy is developed, and then it takes time before you see the strategy play itself out. And because of the pandemic, that timeframe had to be compressed.
So the first thing is the knowledge that we absolutely can go from strategy to execution in a much tighter timeframe than we've done historically. So that's one thing that I think certainly PWC we've learned, but I think industry overall has learned. Sometimes that means absent chasing perfection, good and felling fast while we talk about it, it was absolutely necessary. So now I think going forward, you will see many companies, including PWC, taking that approach.
All companies have disaster recovery plans and planning for the unexpected. I think you'll see all of that tightening in and an increased focus on the digital assets that are a part of that plan. I am absolutely pleasantly surprised that in our case, our ability, PWC, to continue to serve our clients in our client's engagement while we're doing everything virtual. I will tell you that I don't feel like from the standpoint of engagement delivery, project delivery, that we've missed a beat, and I would not have expected that.
So I think while we've talked about technology and leveraging technology in the past, again, I think all industries will be working on their virtual capabilities and what that means and how to integrate virtual throughout the entire journey of their customers, which is something, again, that historically we've talked about, but we haven't done to the extent that we could do.
Sarah Gascon:
Last time we spoke, you discussed, which we really liked, the unconscious biases that occur. Could you explain in a little bit more detail about your perspective and how that influences or affects businesses?
Larry:
Yeah, because oftentimes when we think about, you asked earlier about some of the things going on with the race and diversity inclusion in our country. Oftentimes when we approach those dialogues and conversations, it's about someone with one of the isms, right? Racism, sexism, on and on. I will tell you that I don't believe this, and science sort of, not sort of, but certainly supports it. That, that population of individuals that have those overt racist, sexist beliefs are increasingly a smaller percentage of our population, but all of us come with these unconscious biases.
Those biases can have the same, if not worse, adverse effects on populations if we're not aware of them. That's where the challenge becomes, because that means that you, I, other individuals who are by society's standards doing the right things from the standpoint of this conversation around the isms, but still are creating challenges for other groups. You have to understand how those unconscious biases come into play day in and day out around your choices. If you're not aware, then the population that has the isms, you're a part of that problem as well. Turning that mirror around and facing your own unconscious biases and understanding how they're playing themselves out day in and day out, that's the challenge that's in front of all of us.
Sarah:
What can you do as, or I guess I should say, So what have you done or what has your company done or your community done to have those open and honest discussions?
Larry:
Yeah. So I'll start with myself first. Back in 2004 or five timeframe, I came out of client service, which is the organizations that serve our clients, and came into an internal role where I was asked to lead our diversity and inclusion efforts in the Southeast for PWC. One of the first things I did was starting to read up on the space to make sure I was educated, but also did just what I'm describing. I took a look in the mirror and I started to think about, "Okay, as I learn more about unconscious biases, what are the choices I'm making day in and day out?" So I think step one is you got to start with yourself before you start to try to engage anyone else in dialogue and conversation and talk with them about this topic. You've got to look yourself in the mirror and have an honest dialogue and conversation and an assessment of where you are on this journey.
I think once you do that, approaching the conversation with someone else becomes much easier because instead of pushing the conversation from the standpoint of "I'm trying to change you or get you to see things this way, that way" you're posing conversation from a place really of empathy and a place of understanding, because you understand where you are on this journey and that we all have unconscious biases. So that creates balance in that dialogue.
So that's what I did personally. From an organization, PWC, we a hundred percent believe that it starts with the tone at the top. We've been on this journey for a number of years. One of the first things we did was starting with our partners, engaging them around this topic, educating them on this topic of unconscious bias. Then we asked our partners and we armed them with the tools to do it, to start a conversation in dialogue about unconscious bias with our staff. Our partners represent society, so some were much more comfortable than others in having this conversation, but we all leaned in and had the dialogue, but it was amazing on the backside of that, the eyeopening and lessons learned just through that conversation and dialogue.
So that was one of the things we've done. And we continue to have those conscious conversations internally around unconscious bias. We started with one oh one partner to staff, and now we have it in broader settings on a periodic basis.
Currie:
So having said that, what does the future of diversity and inclusion look like in an organization such as PWC?
Larry:
One of the things we announced this year, and it was on the heels of some of the more recent killings with George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and others, we started an organization about we've asked one of our very senior partners to be the, quote unquote, CEO of this organization. We're partnering with other companies around the country. They're providing staff as well to this organization. So for PWC, we're providing fellowships, two year fellowships. So imagine we're taking our people, keeping them on our payroll, putting them in a two year fellowship with this new organization whose sole purpose is to work on public policy around these issues. So being very proactive in helping to be a part of the solution as it relates to the systemic issues that we have that could go a long way into moving the needle from the standpoint of diversity inclusion.
That is very exciting and is also, as an organization, that's PWC, recognizing that we have a tremendous role to play in this process, and all of corporate America does and is. How we began to help our legislators understand that ultimately, as a corporation, we're a hiring society. So this is affecting our employees when they leave the, quote unquote, four walls of our enterprise, they've got to go out and be who they are day in and day out and walking that scan and walking that life. We owe it to them to do all we can to make sure that experience outside of PWC reflects what we're trying to do inside of PWC.
Sarah:
So previously you spoke about career choices and students, and you stated that students needed to be mindful of certain skill sets or business acumen, et cetera. What advice would you give students now that have just graduated that will assist them moving forward, especially in times like now?
Larry:
I think certainly technology and digital skills, they were important prior to the pandemic and certainly will be much more important as we move forward in life because this is certainly a new norm for us, and that's just the way it is. I do think those students, having lived through this pandemic, having learned for this pandemic, are going to be much more prepared when they go into the workforce for the next thing.
I was reflecting. I've been with PWC now 22 years. I've been through major recessions. I've been through what felt like overnight legislative changes that severely impacted our business. Now going through a pandemic. So if you think about all of those cycles, some economic cycles, some like call it a natural disaster type cycle with the pandemic regulatory cycles. Those things in your career are going to happen, and how you are prepared and respond to those things is critically important.
I will always say that 90%, if not 100%, of individuals graduating now over the life of their career, they're going to have to reinvent themselves. I've done that. I think if you talk to many executives, you will see over the life of their career, they've reinvented themselves. I think as students coming out now and they've thought about how they've had to reinvent themselves as a student because you go from being in an environment where you're shoulder to shoulder with your classmates and your learning in that environment is something that's very virtual. Again, that was almost overnight, and you had to adapt and continue to make it happen. So those skills that allow you to be that flexible and still perform at a high level certainly are going to translate into your professional career.
The second piece is, as we become more virtual, I do everything now virtual, but I turn my camera on because the benefit of body language and that facial expression and interactions becomes paramount. If you're on the phone and you don't understand how the audience is receiving your message, you stand to lose a lot in that conversation. We took that for granted when we were face to face with each other. I often would get on video conferences now with individuals, they won't have their camera on. I can't force anyone to, but I think they're missing out on a huge piece of the equation because you don't know if someone is not in their head or giving you an expression like, "What are you talking about?" You need that feedback.
Currie:
One of my favorite things that you say a piece of advice that you have been given is that you can't be great at two things at once. What does that mean to you?
Larry:
It just means that you have to, one, take some time to understand whether or not you agree with that or not because I think that's the first step. I mean, I think at times when I've said that in presentations, people are sort of taken aback and feel like it's a personal, I don't know, attack in some nature. But once you get past that hurdle, you understand that at different points in time in your life there are trade offs. Those trade offs are between being great and being, and greatness isn't the enemy of being very good, and very good and or good, in some instances is absolutely good enough. I think for some of us, that's a hard place to be and we end up chasing greatness across two or three things, and what you end up being is just average at all of them. So you've got to understand where you are in your life and what you're choosing to be great at, and then what you're choosing as well as a trade off. That means you're choosing to be good at.
I have the same dialogue with my clients. There are certain things that are baseline table stakes for any company at any space. But then based on your strategy, those are things that you absolutely have to lead in because it's part of your strategy, and you've got to be great there. But the things that are table stakes, so when you think about capital allocation and you take this to your personal life, I'll make it real for you. So at PWC we sell intellectual property. I know we do accounting, tax and consulting, but quite honestly it's intellectual property, and that intellectual property resides between your two years.
So if I was making a choice to be great at PWC, then I'd understand when I'm thinking about my own personal growth and development, where would I invest? It becomes quite clear that I'd tend to be investing in this vessel of me because that's what the firm derives value from, right? It doesn't sell paper, pens or pencils. It derives value. So if I'm thinking about where I'm going to spend my time, effort, energy, and money, it's in me. So trade-offs around I used to be someone that took pride in, and it's just one example, in cutting my grass, for example. Well, there's a time trade off between me doing my own lawn and investing in my intellectual property that resides in me. If you magnify that through everything in your life that takes away that time that goes into investing into what produces value, then you'll make clear choices. That's what that greatness conversation really is about when you start to boil it down to day in, day out. Okay, what does that mean on a standpoint of the choices I make?
Currie:
That's really great advice.
Sarah:
Yeah. How long did it take you to develop that?
Larry:
Again, it was communicated to me by a mentor when thinking about I was coming up in my career and getting involved in external community service and board service, but also trying to become, at that time, a manager director and ultimately a partner within the firm and starting our family. As you're looking at all those competing priorities, and there's things that I like to do personally, so you guys know I played basketball at Auburn university, love the game, love the sport, and still want to get out and play in leagues and entrepreneurial leagues and do all that stuff, so you start. There's only 24 hours in a day. As you start to divide all of those things up, and you think about your life evolution, I achieved my level of greatness in basketball when I was at Auburn university.
So now for me it was time to understand that it was time to turn the page, and whether I was ready to accept that or not is a different story, but if I was choosing to be great now in my professional career, I couldn't be great at all four of those things, and certainly it was no value to accrue to me any longer if I'm being great at basketball at a city league. That just isn't, right? So that was a choice I had to make around, "All right, I'm going to continue to exercise and be active, but I can't commit to playing in a city league three or four games a week and three or four hours," that's just not feasible if I'm choosing to be great in other areas.
Currie:
Right. It falls right in line with a saying that Sarah says all the time, you have to reinvent yourself or be willing to reinvent yourself. I think that that's pretty hard for most people.
Larry:
And if it is hard, the next phase of that is, or be forced to. Sadly there are many individuals, and you can look through all walks of life, that were forced to reinvent themselves and forced. You can look at that at an entity level or individual level. Force can mean you become irrelevant or obsolete. Again, you can go through countless examples of that. I would say from an advice standpoint, you don't want to become irrelevant or obsolete. That's not a good place to be working from.
Sarah:
What's next for Larry Patrick?
Larry:
I've mentioned to you guys one of the things that was absolutely life changing for me from Auburn University, there were several, but this is one I'll point out. It was a whole course I took around goal setting and goal planning. I've got and laid out and revisit on a periodic basis my one, three, five year plan. Full transparency, I just turned 52 yesterday. So I had a birthday yesterday.
Sarah:
Happy Birthday.
Larry:
Thank you. My retirement age at PWC is 60. So if I work completely through retirement age, I've got eight years. My plan has been very public to not go that far, just given my plans outside of a PWC. So there are a number of things that I'm very interested in. I've always had a strong entrepreneurship sort of gene inside of me. And so that's something that I'm consciously working and focused on.
I always, at my core, will be an athlete, an athlete in basketball. So coaching, I love coaching. I love teaching. That's something that I'm thinking about as well. Then, not that I'm arrogant and think that I know everything, but when you take a step back and you think about your life journey, there is a reason why you went through certain things. Until the extent that you can be honest and transparent about those things, I think you have an opportunity to educate others.
I see all that to say I've thought about whether it's books or something that takes these experiences and provides a blessing to someone else, and putting that and packaging it in a way that it's digestible. I know that's a long list, but those are the things that I'm thinking about. They're all in my goal planning books, and they've got content behind it and then we'll narrow it down on a choice because I can't be great at all of them. And we'll see what happens.
Sarah:
Yeah. The competitiveness of you takes over, I'm sure, as an athlete, right?
Larry:
It's always there. Always there. I fight it daily. I fight it daily and embrace it some days.
Sarah:
There’s a lot of really great information you shared with us between the two like Currie stated. It’s extremely valuable for not just the students, but for everybody listening in. So we really sincerely appreciate your time.
Larry:
Absolutely. I appreciate you guys; appreciate everything you’re doing and your respective roles. Stay safe. Keep at it.
Narrator:
Harbert, Inspiring Business.