Kurt Ford says he “still looks up when an airplane flies overhead.” He follows his passion for the aviation industry as international network planning director for Delta Air Lines.
When the COVID pandemic halted many of Delta’s international routes, Ford was part of a management team that sought ways to keep the airline’s employees and passengers safe while looking for opportunities to begin restoring service and opening new markets.
Ford has a degree in aeronautical science and is a 2005 MBA graduate of the Harbert College of Business.
Kurt Ford says he “still looks up when an airplane flies overhead.” He follows his passion for the aviation industry as international network planning director for Delta Air Lines.
When the COVID pandemic halted many of Delta’s international routes, Ford was part of a management team that sought ways to keep the airline’s employees and passengers safe while looking for opportunities to begin restoring service and opening new markets.
Ford has a degree in aeronautical science and is a 2005 MBA graduate of the Harbert College of Business.
Narrator:
Welcome to the Harbert College of Business Podcast, with your hosts Sarah Gascon and Currie Dyess. This podcast was recorded in early September, before any current changes in travel policy.
Sarah Gascon:
Today's guest is Kurt Ford. Kurt is the director of international network planning for Delta Airlines, and oversees Delta's markets, schedules, and fleet deployment for the transatlantic and transpacific regions. Prior to his current position, Kurt held roles of increasing responsibility including transpacific network planning, Asia Pacific strategy, and schedule planning. In these roles Kurt led corporate-wide initiatives for Delta's commercial portfolio. Kurt began his career at Delta in 2006 in financial planning and analysis supporting strategic analysis and long-term planning for Delta's aircraft and capital modification portfolio.
Currie Dyess:
Kurt, War Eagle, and welcome to the show. It is such an honor to have you.
Kurt Ford:
War Eagle, guys. Thanks for having me.
Currie:
Yeah, we're so happy to have you and you have a tremendous wealth of knowledge for our listeners, I know they're going to be really happy to listen to what you have to say. And you have a pretty interesting path to the College of Business, can you share with us your journey here and why you chose Auburn University?
Kurt Ford:
Absolutely. So I did undergrad at Embry-Riddle University, I got a degree in aeronautical science. And I chose to pursue my MBA at Auburn for a few reasons. One, at the time the MBA program, or the college abbreviation for Auburn was in the business school. So I was able to get an MBA with a focus in aviation. And two, it was the experience. Auburn was one of the storied schools in aviation, and I wanted to go and experience something very different from my private school in Florida. And we didn't even have a football team, so I was really excited to get to a school with a college football team. And I knew that the program was going to be looking out for me in a unique way, where some other MBA programs maybe weren't as focused on aviation specifically and how that could impact my career and how I could impact the industry.
Sarah:
So post graduation you were with Northwest Airlines?
Kurt Ford:
That's correct, Northwest was merged into Delta. I started at Northwest Airlines in 2006.
Sarah:
So what did you experience, what were the experiences like with that company? And then obviously it was the transition, the merger was around the 2008, 2009 crisis, correct?
Kurt Ford:
That's right. When I started at Northwest the industry was still in a lot of turmoil from September 11th. And so Northwest was actually still a bankruptcy at the time. And I actually interned doing my MBA at an airline that was in bankruptcy as well, and I was able to use a lot of that experience through my MBA internship and as I started my career in finance at Northwest. And it was just a different perspective of the world, right? Northwest was a big carrier but not one of the largest carriers in the US. And they were going through this process of emerging for bankruptcy. I was able to learn a lot about the fundamentals of the business, they were really focused on costs on performance. And that helped kind of focus me on, okay, how do I want to build an airline when it's my turn? How do I want to think about the business?
And so I spent three and a half years at Northwest through the merger, coming out of bankruptcy and then through the merger with Delta, really got good perspective on the overall business. And since moving to Atlanta have been able to expand my career and use some of what I picked up in those early years kind of building back an airline.
Currie:
So it sounds like while you were working for Northwest and they were going through bankruptcy, you gained a lot of experience that ended up helping you in your career and propelling you forward with Delta. How aware were you at the time that you were learning these valuable lessons?
Kurt Ford:
I really did get a lot of those crucial critical experiences. I was on the ground level, we were a lean team, kind of had to learn a little bit of everything. I didn't realize at the time how instrumental that would be in kind of the building blocks of the business and where I would end up. I was still young and I was really just focused on doing the best I could, showing up every day, learning a lot. I came from a different background, I was kind of flight in undergrad and then just a couple of years in the MBA. And so I wanted make sure I showed up 110%, that I was delivering the best I could be and that people weren't ruling me out or holding me back because of my background. And so I didn't realize at the time that all these building blocks were getting put in place, and today I'm really glad I got to do it because when we talk about cost modeling and you talk about vision, we talk about setting performance goals, I've got some of that background and I'm able to use it in terms of my day to day.
Sarah:
So I know there's a lot going on in the world today, how has Delta handled the COVID situation?
Kurt Ford:
We're doing the best we can with the information that we have. We are trying to set goals, we're monitoring the situation across the globe, we're making sure we're taking care of our people, people first, safety first. But a lot of information's coming in, there's a lot of rules it's changing. So you've seen us go out, we've got teams that are supporting vaccinations, we've got teams that are supporting health and safety goals, and we've got teams that are supporting emotional and personnel support goals as well. So it's a lot of rebuilding the business over time in the right areas, focused on what are the fundamentals, what are the things that are working, while at the same time keeping in mind that there is a pandemic going on and people need to be safe, and happy, and healthy, and that's really difficult right now.
And so I feel really fulfilled and I'm happy that we're on this journey towards getting back to where it used to be pre-pandemic. But I think we're still on the way out, we're not out of it yet. Got a little bit of ways to go, especially since I'm managing an international network, internationally we're still quite a bit behind the domestic system in terms of being rebuilt. And so we've probably got a longer line before we get improvement, but I think there's a, I'm hopeful that there's a light at the end of this tunnel.
Sarah:
So let's talk a little bit about routes and tourism. We know that a lot of countries, they really rely on that tourism component to their growth of their economy, one example obviously is the Caribbean islands. Have there been routes added back to those countries? And do you feel any responsibility to add those markets back quicker than a country that doesn't necessarily rely heavily on tourism?
Kurt Ford:
Yeah, that's a great question. So that's part of my business and our team here in network planning. We're looking at the entire globe and looking for opportunity to get people where they want to go, get them there safely, and make sure that we're being responsible with our employees and the travelers that are on us. And we're also looking for opportunities to build back the businesses I mentioned earlier. And so you've seen, not just Delta, all of US airlines really rebuilt the Caribbean and Mexico above pre-pandemic levels because those are the places that were open, and people were willing to travel there, and they had relatively low rates of COVID, and have been relatively safe for travel. And so while I don't manage those areas, that's definitely one of the places we've invested capacity since the pandemic began.
But as we look internationally we've mixed a few different things, right? We've looked for opportunities for cargo to offset passenger losses. Demand is really pressured right now because people don't feel safe traveling or there are travel restrictions on who can travel. But that's been an opportunity for us to add more cargo on board and justify service cargo. But then there are also markets that are open that have never been opened before that has unique circumstances. A good example of that is Croatia. Croatia was one of the few countries that opened up very early in the pandemic. Again, relatively safe country, low levels of COVID, with specific entry restrictions that encouraged Americans to travel. And so you saw we launched service to Croatia early this summer, really did well, we had a lot of people sign up to go.
TBD on the future, but for now we are just continuing to open up markets that are seeing increasing demand. So the summer you saw the UK start to open up and the rest of the EU. And while some of those countries are banned from arriving into the US there are still Americans and want to go there. And so we're not fully restored at all in the international system, but we're building back over time really following the business. Where do people want to go? Where can they go safely? And what opportunities are there for us to start building back our business?
Currie:
How has the pandemic, how has it impacted your job and the people you manage, the fleets that you manage?
Kurt Ford:
Yeah. For me the pandemic, it's just had a significant impact. I was managing the Asia Pacific region when the virus first emerged, so I've been dealing with COVID from January. Right after new year started thinking about what was happening in China, we suspended our China service in February, we were the first airline to do that. And those first couple months of 2020 a lot of the focus was really just Asia Pacific, it didn't hit the domestic US until about March, but Asia had already started prior to that in 2019. It was a lot of sleepless nights, a lot of worrying about our people, a lot of trying to understand all these inputs. It's similar to what's happening today, we were just trying to put all these inputs together and make decisions.
Now we've come out of that and we're at a much better place, but for me personally and for the parts of the business that I manage, it's really just continuing to take a lot of data in and make small adjustments where we can to make sure that we're doing what's best for our people, for people that are traveling, and for the business. We want to get back to a place where we're solid and profitable, we're making investments in where people want to go. And so it's trying to digest all this new information on a regular basis. Becoming a doctor to a lighter degree to have a good understanding of rules, and regulations, and safety, and the different kinds of tests, and the different kind of entry requirements so that we can get everything back on track and really get to the light at the end of the tunnel that I mentioned earlier.
Currie:
And when you open a new market, a new destination, do you have to bid against other airlines for that market or even for the time slots?
Kurt Ford:
In general we don't have to bid against them. It depends on the market, we really have to address what are the opportunities or what are the constraints from entering that market? So some markets, some countries are managed by the DOT where you have to request and get approval to fly there. Some markets are managed through slot regime programs where you have to request slots or requests access to slots in those airports. So that's landing and departure times, and there's only a limited amount and you have to work with other carriers. You can in certain cases lease them or buy them. And so it really depends. It's one of the more interesting parts of international network planning is that almost no two countries are the same. We're constantly evaluating what's going on with the airport, with the slots, with government regulations, with people on the ground, and with our partners, we have joint venture partners all over the world. We work with all of these different groups to identify opportunities and make sure that we're putting our people and our planes and resources in the right markets.
Sarah:
Yeah, definitely. So I want to backtrack a little bit to routes. How do you make those decisions and is your team specifically responsible for making them?
Kurt Ford:
Yeah, it's a little bit of art, a little bit of science, a lot of following the right paths. Of course I've got a great leadership team all the way up to the heads of the company that help make any decision that we go through for international service, just because the scope is so big. But my team does do forecasting, so we look at markets, we look at travel demand by market, we look at the competitive set, the industry landscape, we look at what's happening over the long-term. What kinds of investments are companies or other businesses is making, what are the trends over the history of this market? And we really try to maximize what we can get out of these markets using the constraints and the information that we're able to get.
It will be interesting to see what happens post-COVID, the world has kind of changed in terms of what markets open and when, what kinds of businesses are starting to travel, where people feel safe going. Ultimately we think we'll be able to restore everything that we had pre-pandemic, but the goal is to build a business in a way that's sustainable, that's intentional, that really serves not only to return a profit but also to build longterm opportunities for the airline.
Sarah:
We're assuming that it's more leisure travel now than business travel since Teams or Zoom, that's still very much a thing for people, correct?
Kurt Ford:
You're absolutely correct. I mean overall global travel is somewhere in the 15% to 20% restored. Much less than Asia, a little bit more in Europe, very little in South America. It varies by sector, so you're still seeing auto and manufacturing travel quite a bit because those industries are still moving quite quickly, but some other industries, finance, tech where they're able to use digital tools or not needing to travel as much, those haven't rebounded yet. And so to your point, we are seeing a lot more leisure traffic and that has helped rebuild our Latin America, Caribbean, Mexico portfolio ahead of some of our Asia markets that are closed also to leisure traffic, and some of our European markets that were more heavily reliant on corporate traffic as well.
Currie:
Also, we were really curious about eco-friendly international air travel, that seems like a really tough problem to solve. How is your team addressing issues such as eco-friendly travel?
Kurt Ford:
So unfortunately, I don't get to manage day-to-day planning for how we reduce our carbon footprint, but it's certainly a top of mind issue for the airline industry, and for Delta specifically. So what we've committed to is launching more next generation aircraft, more efficient aircraft, and then we're using more efficient fuel [inaudible 00:27:15]. We're also working with our partners to get access to more efficient fuels, biofuels and using low impact materials, things like that, so that we are able to build a greener airline.
Unfortunately, I don't get involved too much in the day to day, but it's certainly one of the things that is a challenge for the industry. And it's going to be a challenge for a long time just because we don't have the same infrastructure to really ramp up quickly in terms of efficiency and carbon footprint. That being said, you've seen us make a ton of investments and over the next few years as we really bring in more next gen airplanes and retire all of the older airplanes our footprint is expected to reduce pretty significantly.
Currie:
That's really impressive and very encouraging also. You mentioned that Delta was the first to pull out of China, the Chinese markets when the pandemic got underway. How difficult was that decision for you and your team and what are some of the lessons that you learned from that decision-making process that has helped you prepare for the next shutdown? And hopefully we don't have one, but just in case?
Kurt Ford:
Yeah, I mean it was incredibly difficult. We were at the tip of [inaudible 00:28:32] as the pandemic was coming, and I remember very vividly getting ready to meet with the president of the company to recommend that we pull down 50% of our service to China because we were seeing a lot of cancellations, and just getting a lot of news, and we were concerned about safety of our employees and our travelers at the time. We didn't know a lot about the virus and what was happening. And within a week it went from a 50% recommendation to our CEO saying let's suspend, let's take a minute and rebuild and figure out what's going on. And you saw the rest of the industry follow really quickly. At that time, just like most industries, most of us, we were just really trying to absorb a lot of information and figure out what could we do to stop the losses, stop the bleeding, and make sure we were taking care of each other.
What we've learned since then over 18 months of really hard work with me and my team, and across all the teams and all the people at the airline, is that we can read the signs and try and work through what's happening on a market by market basis and figure out, yes, no, when what should we do. We're not perfect, there's still a lot of work that goes into trying to be strategic, at the same time trying to return value to the airline while trying to deploy assets responsibly and keep our people safe. But we've put together more of a playbook, one that we didn't have, never seen something like this before over the past 18 months. A really good playbook of how do we do the right things in the face of kind of an unprecedented situation. And so I hope we never have to do it again, but I do think we're better positioned now to make quick decisions, to look at what's happening, and to adjust our network or business on a much more rapid pace.
Sarah:
Do you have collaborative efforts that you specifically make as a lead or someone who's in charge with, say the marketing department, in terms of routes or determination on, as you discussed earlier, what locations you will enter into?
Kurt Ford:
Absolutely, right. So when we think about the international network, and this applies to all of the major parts of the business, we definitely have to collaborate, work cross divisionally a lot. In the international space we're dealing with partners, we're dealing with government relations, and then we're dealing with a foreign travel set, right? Not every market is 100% US point of sale, right? So some of our travelers are from the US and some will be from the UK, or from France, or from Japan. And so we have to work with our marketing teams, our sales teams, with our ground operations teams, our catering teams, our in-flight teams to offer tools, resources, and to build the business or that market around the relevant parts of the business, around the market plan. And so you see us as a team trying to drive that business.
If we've got a strategy to be the best we can be with a partner in the UK, we've got to make sure the marketing team has a budget for advertising at UK. That we offer goods and services on board that are relevant to UK customers, that we sell our product, our tickets are distributed in places where UK customers buy tickets. And so those are parts of the business that we drive that are sometimes less sexy, they're not picking the markets or picking the airplanes, that are really important.
So a good example, in Australia people still go to travel agents and buy tickets through travel agents. So we need to make sure we have a relationship, our sales teams have relationships with the travel agencies in Australia, at the big travel agencies. I know the US it kind of feels like an odd concept but it still happens around the world. And if we're not thinking about that, just saying we want to fly between LA and Sydney doesn't answer the rest of the business question, which is how do we make sure that LA Sydney is profitable? How do we make sure that we're serving customers on both sides of the ocean and that we have a business that is sustainable, is something that we want to rely on for the future?
Currie:
But do you, does Delta ever get any pressure from, let's say the government, to operate on their behalf in a case in which they can't? Like maybe with this Afghanistan withdrawal that we just went through?
Kurt Ford:
So I can't speak to the specifics of how the government communicates with our leaders, and the senior leaders, and the government affairs teams, but I do know that Delta was part of the Afghanistan evacuation. Our airplanes were active in the CRAF Program, which is civil reserve air fleet. Which essentially means that we gave our planes to the US government for them to tell us where they want us to fly, to pick up and move evacuees. We can move troops that way, we've done it in past. Really it's part of doing our duty and something that we were signing up for even before they activated the CRAF Program.
Sarah:
So Kurt, you've had such a great career and a very interesting career, what are your next steps? What's next for you?
Kurt Ford:
I'm just going to keep pushing through, right? This is the business I love and I don't know what else I would do. And I always say there's so many places in the airline that I'd love to go and learn. And so as long as I'm being rewarded, as long as I'm being pushed and motivated my goal is to make this airline and the airline industry one of the best in the world, the best it can be. And so that's what I'm trying to do every day. I have a passion for airlines, I have a passion for business. I still look up when an airplane flies overhead. And so for me what's next is making sure that I'm delivering on my own promises to myself to keep innovating and keep building a better airline.
Currie:
What would be the advice you would give to your younger self? What would be the advice you would give to students maybe getting their undergrad or their graduate degrees right now?
Kurt Ford:
I would say work harder, right? I worked hard but you can work harder, right? When you're young there's so many options with all this stuff that we, and then we get older and realize, man, I could've worked harder and gotten just a little bit more. Do it, I wish I'd told myself to do it. And if I talk to folks now I tell them to work really hard.
Do what you love, find pieces, and places, businesses, whatever it is that you love. Make sure that you're a holistic person. I love to volunteer, if you like to volunteer you can even follow your passion into volunteering or make it a part of whatever business you end up in. But follow your passions, I think it's really important. I think take time is really important. I know when we're young there's a lot of distractions. We look, every year we want to do something different, we want to go somewhere new. I think taking the time to invest in what you're learning so that you become really good at it or what your passions are is really important.
And then also be yourself, be more authentic I think is really important. I love that people are more authentic and they live their true lives more often nowadays. And I think for all of us when we're young it's harder to do that. I would encourage everyone that's young, that's still figuring out who they are to say that, to be who you are to live their authentic life and live their passions, I think that's really important. The younger you can do that the better.
Sarah:
Kurt, it has been an absolute pleasure speaking with you today. How can our students reach out to you?
Kurt Ford:
The best way would be on LinkedIn. Go ahead and reach out to me there and I'm happy to connect and answer questions. Or through the College of Business.
Sarah:
Thank you so much for your time, we appreciate it. And War Eagle.
Kurt Ford:
War Eagle, guys. Good luck.
Narrator:
Harbert, Inspiring Business.