{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":3.21,"endTime":4.89,"body":"So I'm sitting"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":3.21,"endTime":4.89,"body":"in this courtroom in San"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":4.89,"endTime":8.4,"body":"Francisco. And there's this"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":4.89,"endTime":8.4,"body":"eccentric judge. And there's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":8.4,"endTime":12.24,"body":"like the oil company lawyers who"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":8.4,"endTime":12.24,"body":"literally were cracking jokes"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":12.24,"endTime":15.15,"body":"about, like how the other"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":12.24,"endTime":15.15,"body":"lawyers were poor. You guys are"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":15.15,"endTime":19.17,"body":"like straight out of central"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":15.15,"endTime":19.17,"body":"casting. And then there were"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":19.17,"endTime":22.62,"body":"like the activists wearing their"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":19.17,"endTime":22.62,"body":"Exxon new T shirts, the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":22.62,"endTime":25.89,"body":"scientists being kind of, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":22.62,"endTime":25.89,"body":"know, goofy and awkward and I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":25.89,"endTime":29.4,"body":"thought, Oh, this is perfect. I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":25.89,"endTime":29.4,"body":"can do a true crime style"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":29.4,"endTime":31.74,"body":"podcast about climate change."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.09,"endTime":38.04,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.09,"endTime":38.04,"body":"afternoon, or good evening"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":38.04,"endTime":41.73,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":38.04,"endTime":41.73,"body":"This is the climate 21 podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":41.79,"endTime":44.88,"body":"the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":41.79,"endTime":44.88,"body":"showcasing best practices in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":44.88,"endTime":48.21,"body":"climate emissions reductions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":44.88,"endTime":48.21,"body":"And I'm your host, global vice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.21,"endTime":53.04,"body":"president for SAP. Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.21,"endTime":53.04,"body":"Climate 21 is the name of an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.04,"endTime":56.88,"body":"initiative by SAP to allow our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.04,"endTime":56.88,"body":"customers calculate, report and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":56.88,"endTime":60.6,"body":"reduce their greenhouse gas"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":56.88,"endTime":60.6,"body":"emissions. In this climate 21"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.6,"endTime":64.26,"body":"podcast, I will showcase best"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.6,"endTime":64.26,"body":"practices and thought leadership"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":64.26,"endTime":68.76,"body":"by SAP, by our customers by our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":64.26,"endTime":68.76,"body":"partners on by our competitors"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":68.76,"endTime":72.87,"body":"if their game in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":68.76,"endTime":72.87,"body":"emissions reductions. Don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":72.87,"endTime":76.38,"body":"forget to subscribe to this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":72.87,"endTime":76.38,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":76.38,"endTime":81.21,"body":"choice to be sure you don't miss"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":76.38,"endTime":81.21,"body":"any episodes. Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":81.21,"endTime":84.15,"body":"Welcome to the Climate 21"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":81.21,"endTime":84.15,"body":"podcast. My name is Tom Raftery,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":84.15,"endTime":87.81,"body":"with SAP and with me on the show"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":84.15,"endTime":87.81,"body":"today I have my special guest,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":87.81,"endTime":90.63,"body":"Amy. Amy, would you like to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":87.81,"endTime":90.63,"body":"introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":91.32,"endTime":95.52,"body":"Sure. My name is"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":91.32,"endTime":95.52,"body":"Amy Westervelt. And I'm a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":95.7,"endTime":99.66,"body":"journalist and I run a podcast"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":95.7,"endTime":99.66,"body":"network and we make lots of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":99.66,"endTime":100.05,"body":"climate."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.42,"endTime":105.51,"body":"Fantastic,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.42,"endTime":105.51,"body":"fantastic. So I came across you,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":105.51,"endTime":109.53,"body":"Amy. First, I think through your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":105.51,"endTime":109.53,"body":"drilled podcast series, although"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":109.53,"endTime":111.84,"body":"I think online, I'd seen your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":109.53,"endTime":111.84,"body":"name mentioned with a couple of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":111.84,"endTime":117.0,"body":"articles as well in the space."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":111.84,"endTime":117.0,"body":"How did you get into climate in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":117.0,"endTime":119.61,"body":"the first place? Because you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":117.0,"endTime":119.61,"body":"know, you've been in a while"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":119.61,"endTime":122.43,"body":"now. And it's not really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":119.61,"endTime":122.43,"body":"something that people have been"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":122.73,"endTime":124.38,"body":"paying attention to for that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":122.73,"endTime":124.38,"body":"long."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":125.55,"endTime":129.3,"body":"Yeah, so I was a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":125.55,"endTime":129.3,"body":"print journalist for a really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":129.3,"endTime":134.34,"body":"long time before I got into"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":129.3,"endTime":134.34,"body":"podcasts. And I still do work in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":134.34,"endTime":140.4,"body":"that realm too. And I started in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":134.34,"endTime":140.4,"body":"climate because this is a very"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":140.4,"endTime":147.03,"body":"bizarre way in but I had quit my"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":140.4,"endTime":147.03,"body":"job at a magazine that was"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":147.03,"endTime":149.7,"body":"working at, like an arts and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":147.03,"endTime":149.7,"body":"culture magazine in San"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":149.7,"endTime":155.4,"body":"Francisco. And I had a terrible"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":149.7,"endTime":155.4,"body":"boss, who was just awful, like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":155.4,"endTime":159.27,"body":"one of those like epically bad"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":155.4,"endTime":159.27,"body":"bosses, and then I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":159.27,"endTime":165.18,"body":"was like, 23 or something and,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":159.27,"endTime":165.18,"body":"and sort of had a shouting match"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":165.21,"endTime":171.66,"body":"my boss and stormed out,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":165.21,"endTime":171.66,"body":"victorious, I quit. And then oh,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":171.66,"endTime":179.52,"body":"no, how am I gonna pay my rent?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":171.66,"endTime":179.52,"body":"So a friend of mine, who was"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":179.52,"endTime":185.28,"body":"working at an engineering firm,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":179.52,"endTime":185.28,"body":"said, You know, actually, we"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":185.28,"endTime":188.7,"body":"need a copywriter, and it's on"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":185.28,"endTime":188.7,"body":"contract, and they'll pay you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":188.7,"endTime":192.57,"body":"like, you know, as you write"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":188.7,"endTime":192.57,"body":"these case studies, so, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":192.57,"endTime":196.17,"body":"know, it's gonna be boring, it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":192.57,"endTime":196.17,"body":"gonna be boring as hell, but you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":196.17,"endTime":198.33,"body":"can, you know, maybe, maybe you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":196.17,"endTime":198.33,"body":"want to do it. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":198.33,"endTime":201.48,"body":"yes, yes, give it to me. So, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":198.33,"endTime":201.48,"body":"started doing that. And this"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":201.48,"endTime":207.03,"body":"firm had done a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":201.48,"endTime":207.03,"body":"engineering for Shell to make"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":207.03,"endTime":213.12,"body":"its oil platforms, kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":207.03,"endTime":213.12,"body":"resilient to sea level rise. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":213.15,"endTime":216.78,"body":"this was quite a while ago, more"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":213.15,"endTime":216.78,"body":"than 20 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":218.31,"endTime":220.71,"body":"showed worried"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":218.31,"endTime":220.71,"body":"about sea level rise for what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":220.71,"endTime":222.15,"body":"might be causing sea level rise."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":222.36,"endTime":226.38,"body":"Yeah. So this"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":222.36,"endTime":226.38,"body":"was at the at a at a time when,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":226.41,"endTime":232.26,"body":"you know, they weren't in full"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":226.41,"endTime":232.26,"body":"on sort of climate denial mode."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":232.32,"endTime":236.85,"body":"But they certainly were not"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":232.32,"endTime":236.85,"body":"telling anyone else to get ready"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":236.85,"endTime":242.64,"body":"for sea level rise. And the the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":236.85,"endTime":242.64,"body":"particular case study that I was"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":242.64,"endTime":247.53,"body":"writing was about work that had"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":242.64,"endTime":247.53,"body":"happened, you know, probably 10"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":247.53,"endTime":250.38,"body":"years earlier, when they when"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":247.53,"endTime":250.38,"body":"really, most of the oil"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":250.38,"endTime":253.11,"body":"companies were kind of saying,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":250.38,"endTime":253.11,"body":"Don't worry, this isn't a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":253.11,"endTime":257.19,"body":"problem. So that was very"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":253.11,"endTime":257.19,"body":"interesting to me. And I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":257.19,"endTime":259.77,"body":"thought, Oh, this is kind of an"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":257.19,"endTime":259.77,"body":"interesting story. Maybe I can"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":259.77,"endTime":263.88,"body":"pitch it to an environmental"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":259.77,"endTime":263.88,"body":"magazine, which I did. I wrote"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":263.88,"endTime":269.1,"body":"it, I wrote it for a super tiny"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":263.88,"endTime":269.1,"body":"magazine that no longer exists."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":269.49,"endTime":272.97,"body":"And it just kind of got me"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":269.49,"endTime":272.97,"body":"interested in the whole climate"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":272.97,"endTime":277.74,"body":"thing. So I ended up getting a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":272.97,"endTime":277.74,"body":"job for that same little"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":277.74,"endTime":282.99,"body":"magazine, it was called"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":277.74,"endTime":282.99,"body":"sustainable industries. And then"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":283.02,"endTime":286.83,"body":"I got a job with solve climate,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":283.02,"endTime":286.83,"body":"which today is inside climate"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":286.83,"endTime":292.02,"body":"news. When they first launched,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":286.83,"endTime":292.02,"body":"I worked with them for a while"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":292.2,"endTime":297.84,"body":"and just sort of kept going. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":292.2,"endTime":297.84,"body":"I I kind of you know, I always"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":297.87,"endTime":302.37,"body":"wrote about various other things"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":297.87,"endTime":302.37,"body":"too, but But climate was kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":302.88,"endTime":307.65,"body":"a through line for a long time."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":302.88,"endTime":307.65,"body":"And I, I feel like I've kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":307.65,"endTime":311.82,"body":"come back to this, you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":307.65,"endTime":311.82,"body":"corporate malfeasance"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":311.82,"endTime":317.82,"body":"accountability up So. So. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":311.82,"endTime":317.82,"body":"yeah, that's that's where it"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":317.82,"endTime":318.39,"body":"started."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":319.23,"endTime":322.68,"body":"But we talk about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":319.23,"endTime":322.68,"body":"damages your new podcast which"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":322.68,"endTime":326.04,"body":"actually launches tomorrow. So"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":322.68,"endTime":326.04,"body":"congrats on that I've heard a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":326.04,"endTime":329.82,"body":"couple of the teaser episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":326.04,"endTime":329.82,"body":"And it sounds really good. But"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":329.82,"endTime":333.12,"body":"before we and for people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":329.82,"endTime":333.12,"body":"listening damages is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":333.12,"endTime":336.54,"body":"as the name might imply, it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":333.12,"endTime":336.54,"body":"about, you know, law, legal"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":336.54,"endTime":340.44,"body":"cases are and climate, which is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":336.54,"endTime":340.44,"body":"a fascinating topic, I think."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":340.71,"endTime":343.71,"body":"But before that, let's let's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":340.71,"endTime":343.71,"body":"talk about the one where I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":343.71,"endTime":346.05,"body":"actually heard you first, which"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":343.71,"endTime":346.05,"body":"was drilled, which was an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":346.05,"endTime":350.43,"body":"incredibly well produced"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":346.05,"endTime":350.43,"body":"podcast, I have to say it's kind"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":350.43,"endTime":355.62,"body":"of a Netflix level of production"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":350.43,"endTime":355.62,"body":"values. And it's, no, it really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":355.62,"endTime":360.03,"body":"is, and it's done. It's so my"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":355.62,"endTime":360.03,"body":"podcast here. And my little"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":360.03,"endTime":363.72,"body":"effort by myself is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":360.03,"endTime":363.72,"body":"it's very simple, very"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":363.72,"endTime":367.95,"body":"straightforward. It's just me,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":363.72,"endTime":367.95,"body":"I'm the guest, but the the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":367.98,"endTime":371.55,"body":"drilled series, and from what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":367.98,"endTime":371.55,"body":"I've heard the damages series as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":371.55,"endTime":375.33,"body":"well, it's you're going out,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":371.55,"endTime":375.33,"body":"you're interviewing people,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":375.33,"endTime":378.57,"body":"you've got a whole backstory to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":375.33,"endTime":378.57,"body":"talk to me about drilled, how"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":378.57,"endTime":382.41,"body":"did that come about? And I mean,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":378.57,"endTime":382.41,"body":"maybe talk a little bit as well"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":382.44,"endTime":387.21,"body":"about the story that drilled"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":382.44,"endTime":387.21,"body":"tells, because I had done Franta"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":387.24,"endTime":391.86,"body":"on the podcast before Christmas,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":387.24,"endTime":391.86,"body":"Ben. Yeah, he we talked a little"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":391.86,"endTime":394.02,"body":"bit about that. In fact, we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":391.86,"endTime":394.02,"body":"mentioned you on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":394.44,"endTime":399.45,"body":"And but yeah, talk a little bit"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":394.44,"endTime":399.45,"body":"about how drilled came about and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":399.45,"endTime":400.17,"body":"the story of it."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":400.98,"endTime":405.54,"body":"Yeah, so I was"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":400.98,"endTime":405.54,"body":"covering climate cases for a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":405.54,"endTime":410.49,"body":"couple of different outlets, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":405.54,"endTime":410.49,"body":"was writing about them for The"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":410.49,"endTime":415.89,"body":"Guardian, and a couple of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":410.49,"endTime":415.89,"body":"websites and things. And so I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":416.4,"endTime":423.57,"body":"heard about this trial in San"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":416.4,"endTime":423.57,"body":"Francisco. So San Francisco and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":423.57,"endTime":428.94,"body":"Oakland were suing the 30"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":423.57,"endTime":428.94,"body":"largest oil companies for their"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":428.94,"endTime":433.29,"body":"role in delaying climate action."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":428.94,"endTime":433.29,"body":"I think these cases have been"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":433.38,"endTime":438.12,"body":"like mis interpreted a lot as"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":433.38,"endTime":438.12,"body":"like, you know, suing oil"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":438.12,"endTime":441.9,"body":"companies for causing climate"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":438.12,"endTime":441.9,"body":"change. No, that's not what"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":441.9,"endTime":446.07,"body":"they're doing. It's basically"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":441.9,"endTime":446.07,"body":"these cities with enormously"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":446.07,"endTime":449.58,"body":"high costs for climate"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":446.07,"endTime":449.58,"body":"adaptation. So for example, San"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":449.58,"endTime":453.42,"body":"Francisco is spending millions"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":449.58,"endTime":453.42,"body":"of dollars on sea walls, or"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":453.84,"endTime":458.37,"body":"having to move people away from"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":453.84,"endTime":458.37,"body":"coastlines that are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":458.37,"endTime":461.25,"body":"disappearing, thanks to sea"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":458.37,"endTime":461.25,"body":"level rise and things like that."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":461.7,"endTime":466.32,"body":"Right now, taxpayers bear those"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":461.7,"endTime":466.32,"body":"costs. And what these cases are"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":466.32,"endTime":471.24,"body":"arguing is that the companies"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":466.32,"endTime":471.24,"body":"that delayed action on climate,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":471.48,"endTime":475.62,"body":"and therefore increase those"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":471.48,"endTime":475.62,"body":"costs, should pay some portion"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":475.65,"endTime":479.1,"body":"of those costs. So that's what"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":475.65,"endTime":479.1,"body":"was happening in the Bay Area in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":479.1,"endTime":483.15,"body":"California. And the judge in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":479.1,"endTime":483.15,"body":"that case, did something a bit"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":483.18,"endTime":492.03,"body":"unusual and requested a climate"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":483.18,"endTime":492.03,"body":"tutorial. So he, yeah, he asked,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":492.03,"endTime":495.3,"body":"he was a very interesting guy."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":492.03,"endTime":495.3,"body":"Judge also could San Francisco,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":495.3,"endTime":499.14,"body":"he had previously done cases"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":495.3,"endTime":499.14,"body":"where he had, like, taught"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":499.14,"endTime":506.4,"body":"himself how to code in order to,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":499.14,"endTime":506.4,"body":"to like, adjudicate complicated"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":506.4,"endTime":510.06,"body":"software case, and he had, like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":506.4,"endTime":510.06,"body":"learned everything about"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":510.15,"endTime":514.29,"body":"autonomous vehicles for a case,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":510.15,"endTime":514.29,"body":"you know, related to that. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":514.29,"endTime":518.19,"body":"he's very into, you know, really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":514.29,"endTime":518.19,"body":"getting into the backstory of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":518.19,"endTime":522.24,"body":"these cases. And so he asked for"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":518.19,"endTime":522.24,"body":"both sides to give a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":522.24,"endTime":525.78,"body":"presentation on really sort of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":522.24,"endTime":525.78,"body":"the history of science and who"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":525.78,"endTime":530.64,"body":"knew what and when. And at that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":525.78,"endTime":530.64,"body":"time, you know, I was, I was"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":530.64,"endTime":534.33,"body":"covering these cases for various"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":530.64,"endTime":534.33,"body":"print outlets, but I had started"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":534.36,"endTime":539.07,"body":"working in radio, and I had been"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":534.36,"endTime":539.07,"body":"trying to think of like, what"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":539.07,"endTime":542.88,"body":"could a narrative climate"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":539.07,"endTime":542.88,"body":"podcast be all of the climate"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":542.88,"endTime":546.57,"body":"podcasts that existed that at"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":542.88,"endTime":546.57,"body":"the time were interview shows or"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":546.57,"endTime":549.75,"body":"talk shows, and I thought, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":546.57,"endTime":549.75,"body":"know, there's so many stories in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":549.75,"endTime":554.04,"body":"this room? Why, you know, why"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":549.75,"endTime":554.04,"body":"isn't there a narrative podcast?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":554.04,"endTime":557.64,"body":"And I realized, oh, because it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":554.04,"endTime":557.64,"body":"really hard to figure out, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":557.64,"endTime":562.44,"body":"know, what story would work in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":557.64,"endTime":562.44,"body":"that medium? And anyway, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":562.44,"endTime":565.5,"body":"sitting in this courtroom in San"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":562.44,"endTime":565.5,"body":"Francisco. And there's this"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":565.5,"endTime":569.25,"body":"eccentric judge. And there's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":565.5,"endTime":569.25,"body":"like the oil company lawyers who"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":569.43,"endTime":572.4,"body":"literally were cracking jokes"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":569.43,"endTime":572.4,"body":"about like, how the other"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":572.4,"endTime":579.48,"body":"lawyers were poor. I was like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":572.4,"endTime":579.48,"body":"because we're like, straight out"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":579.48,"endTime":585.0,"body":"of central casting. And then"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":579.48,"endTime":585.0,"body":"there were like, the activists"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":585.0,"endTime":588.57,"body":"wearing their Exxon new T"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":585.0,"endTime":588.57,"body":"shirts, the scientists being"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":588.57,"endTime":591.42,"body":"kind of, you know, goofy and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":588.57,"endTime":591.42,"body":"awkward. And I thought, Oh, this"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":591.42,"endTime":595.35,"body":"is perfect. I can do a true"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":591.42,"endTime":595.35,"body":"crime style podcast about"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":595.59,"endTime":599.19,"body":"climate change. So that's what I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":595.59,"endTime":599.19,"body":"set out to do and in the first"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":599.19,"endTime":604.05,"body":"season I wanted to get into"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":599.19,"endTime":604.05,"body":"really kind of the the story"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":604.05,"endTime":608.25,"body":"that a lot of these new cases"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":604.05,"endTime":608.25,"body":"are based on, which is what"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":608.25,"endTime":612.33,"body":"exactly the oil companies knew"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":608.25,"endTime":612.33,"body":"about climate change, and when"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":612.33,"endTime":615.72,"body":"and what they did with that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":612.33,"endTime":615.72,"body":"information. And, of course,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":615.72,"endTime":620.46,"body":"that story had been reported by"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":615.72,"endTime":620.46,"body":"InsideClimate News and The Los"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":620.46,"endTime":627.09,"body":"Angeles Times and Columbia"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":620.46,"endTime":627.09,"body":"Journalism School in 2015. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":627.54,"endTime":633.42,"body":"was, I mean, an incredible kind"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":627.54,"endTime":633.42,"body":"of, Expo say about, particularly"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":633.42,"endTime":637.92,"body":"Exxon Mobil, because there were"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":633.42,"endTime":637.92,"body":"so many documents available that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":637.92,"endTime":641.85,"body":"really showed, okay, their"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":637.92,"endTime":641.85,"body":"scientists were warning them in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":641.85,"endTime":645.93,"body":"the 70s, that, you know, this is"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":641.85,"endTime":645.93,"body":"coming, it's going to be a big"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":645.93,"endTime":649.38,"body":"problem, we need to do"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":645.93,"endTime":649.38,"body":"something. And you know, what"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":649.38,"endTime":654.06,"body":"happened with that, that kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":649.38,"endTime":654.06,"body":"momentum. So I, but I felt like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":654.72,"endTime":657.57,"body":"not enough people had read that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":654.72,"endTime":657.57,"body":"story, like it hadn't sunk in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":657.57,"endTime":661.08,"body":"enough yet. And I thought, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":657.57,"endTime":661.08,"body":"know, this is a, this is like, a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":661.08,"endTime":667.53,"body":"good example of where audio can"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":661.08,"endTime":667.53,"body":"actually help you to tell a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":667.53,"endTime":671.46,"body":"story, because when you hear"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":667.53,"endTime":671.46,"body":"these old axon scientists"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":671.46,"endTime":675.3,"body":"telling this story, that like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":671.46,"endTime":675.3,"body":"sinks in more, you know, you can"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":675.3,"endTime":680.34,"body":"kind of you can really hear"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":675.3,"endTime":680.34,"body":"them, you know, going through"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":680.37,"endTime":684.63,"body":"this whole history, so, so I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":680.37,"endTime":684.63,"body":"found as many of them that were"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":684.63,"endTime":688.83,"body":"still my search, I got, like a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":684.63,"endTime":688.83,"body":"whole list of, of scientists"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":688.83,"endTime":693.21,"body":"from all the documents and then"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":688.83,"endTime":693.21,"body":"write, or to check against"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":693.21,"endTime":695.07,"body":"obituaries. And of course, like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":693.21,"endTime":695.07,"body":"not that many."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":697.679,"endTime":701.519,"body":"I found the ones that I could"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":697.679,"endTime":701.519,"body":"and, and when and talk to them"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":701.519,"endTime":704.669,"body":"and, and that was sort of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":701.519,"endTime":704.669,"body":"first season of job, which was"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":704.669,"endTime":708.869,"body":"only ever going to be that one"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":704.669,"endTime":708.869,"body":"season, but in the course of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":708.989,"endTime":713.399,"body":"reporting that I learned about a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":708.989,"endTime":713.399,"body":"case that some crab fishermen"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":713.399,"endTime":716.039,"body":"were bringing against the oil"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":713.399,"endTime":716.039,"body":"industry. And that seemed really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":716.039,"endTime":720.839,"body":"interesting to me. So I went out"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":716.039,"endTime":720.839,"body":"on a bunch of crab fishing, talk"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":720.839,"endTime":725.159,"body":"to this guy's and then, and then"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":720.839,"endTime":725.159,"body":"I really got to thinking, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":725.159,"endTime":732.419,"body":"know, climate denial was very"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":725.159,"endTime":732.419,"body":"effective, but it's only one"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":732.449,"endTime":737.159,"body":"strategy. And it's kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":732.449,"endTime":737.159,"body":"I really started thinking, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":737.159,"endTime":740.339,"body":"don't really understand why it"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":737.159,"endTime":740.339,"body":"was that as effective as it was,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":740.339,"endTime":745.019,"body":"because it's not like a genius"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":740.339,"endTime":745.019,"body":"strategy, you know, sort of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":745.019,"endTime":754.049,"body":"oldest trick in the book to say,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":745.019,"endTime":754.049,"body":"Nah, that's not true. So, why,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":754.079,"endTime":757.859,"body":"why did it work? 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What is nature?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":783.329,"endTime":786.389,"body":"What is the relationship between"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":783.329,"endTime":786.389,"body":"the environment and the economy,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":786.599,"endTime":791.099,"body":"and there were so many of these"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":786.599,"endTime":791.099,"body":"things set really rigidly like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":791.129,"endTime":794.879,"body":"decades before climate appeared"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":791.129,"endTime":794.879,"body":"on the scene, you know, so then"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":794.879,"endTime":799.709,"body":"you're kind of like, Oh, of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":794.879,"endTime":799.709,"body":"course, like, you can almost"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":799.739,"endTime":803.129,"body":"predict that things were gonna"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":799.739,"endTime":803.129,"body":"go the way that they did."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":803.669,"endTime":807.929,"body":"Because that path had already"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":803.669,"endTime":807.929,"body":"really been laid for quite some"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":807.929,"endTime":812.129,"body":"time. So. So that was season"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":807.929,"endTime":812.129,"body":"three of drilled, we looked at"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":812.129,"endTime":815.669,"body":"sort of this long history of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":812.129,"endTime":815.669,"body":"propaganda. And I just like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":815.669,"endTime":819.839,"body":"keep, I keep finding more story."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":815.669,"endTime":819.839,"body":"So you keep doing more, more and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":819.839,"endTime":823.499,"body":"more seasons. We're up to season"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":819.839,"endTime":823.499,"body":"six now. Amazing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":823.74,"endTime":827.58,"body":"Amazing. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":823.74,"endTime":827.58,"body":"so that brings us nicely on to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":827.61,"endTime":830.7,"body":"damages, because damages is the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":827.61,"endTime":830.7,"body":"new one, as we mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":830.7,"endTime":834.15,"body":"launching tomorrow. For people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":830.7,"endTime":834.15,"body":"who aren't listening to this on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":834.15,"endTime":838.35,"body":"Wednesday, the 16th damages"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":834.15,"endTime":838.35,"body":"launches on Thursday, February"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":838.35,"endTime":843.42,"body":"17. So if you're listening to it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":838.35,"endTime":843.42,"body":"after February 17, go and check"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":843.42,"endTime":849.21,"body":"it out in iTunes, or your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":843.42,"endTime":849.21,"body":"podcast app of choice to me, how"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":849.21,"endTime":851.1,"body":"did damages come about? And what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":849.21,"endTime":851.1,"body":"is it?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":851.7,"endTime":854.37,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":851.7,"endTime":854.37,"body":"actually, damages is the show"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":854.37,"endTime":857.19,"body":"that I thought I was starting to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":854.37,"endTime":857.19,"body":"make with the first season of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":857.19,"endTime":866.58,"body":"drills. I like had, I had"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":857.19,"endTime":866.58,"body":"intended to start to follow the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":866.58,"endTime":869.19,"body":"stories behind these different"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":866.58,"endTime":869.19,"body":"cases, because at that time, in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":869.19,"endTime":876.87,"body":"particular, this is now like, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":869.19,"endTime":876.87,"body":"guess 2017 The Climate cases"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":876.87,"endTime":880.23,"body":"really were not being covered."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":876.87,"endTime":880.23,"body":"It was sort of like the first"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":880.23,"endTime":885.72,"body":"few of them, you know, got some"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":880.23,"endTime":885.72,"body":"coverage in the press and I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":885.72,"endTime":889.65,"body":"don't I don't even fault. I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":885.72,"endTime":889.65,"body":"don't fault like the media for"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":889.65,"endTime":892.92,"body":"ignoring them or anything like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":889.65,"endTime":892.92,"body":"that. It's sort of just the way"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":893.37,"endTime":898.56,"body":"that media is set up to cover"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":893.37,"endTime":898.56,"body":"these cases that you know, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":898.56,"endTime":901.17,"body":"might get a story when"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":898.56,"endTime":901.17,"body":"something's filed. And then you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":901.17,"endTime":904.59,"body":"might get another story if"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":901.17,"endTime":904.59,"body":"there's a ruling. But there's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":904.59,"endTime":908.13,"body":"no, there's no place where you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":904.59,"endTime":908.13,"body":"like really get the backstory"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":908.13,"endTime":911.43,"body":"of, you know, why this case has"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":908.13,"endTime":911.43,"body":"come about or anything like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":911.43,"endTime":916.86,"body":"that. So I thought, Oh, this is"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":911.43,"endTime":916.86,"body":"there's hundreds of cases these"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":916.86,"endTime":923.73,"body":"are this is like an endless pool"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":916.86,"endTime":923.73,"body":"of story material. And it really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":923.73,"endTime":932.04,"body":"like, there's this way to me"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":923.73,"endTime":932.04,"body":"that law is a huge reflection of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":932.43,"endTime":937.44,"body":"kind of philosophy and religion"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":932.43,"endTime":937.44,"body":"and cultural ideas about things"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":937.92,"endTime":941.97,"body":"that kind of show up in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":937.92,"endTime":941.97,"body":"courtrooms. So, I find that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":941.97,"endTime":946.47,"body":"really interesting. And being"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":941.97,"endTime":946.47,"body":"able to look at cases all over"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":946.47,"endTime":951.75,"body":"the world is fascinating to me."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":946.47,"endTime":951.75,"body":"And it's also this realm where"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":952.2,"endTime":955.77,"body":"there are a lot of things"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":952.2,"endTime":955.77,"body":"happening that actually really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":955.77,"endTime":960.21,"body":"impact policy. And no one really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":955.77,"endTime":960.21,"body":"even knows that they're going on"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":960.21,"endTime":962.4,"body":"every time I tell someone,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":960.21,"endTime":962.4,"body":"there's hundreds of climate"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":962.4,"endTime":964.74,"body":"cases that are in courts all"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":962.4,"endTime":964.74,"body":"over the world right now."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":964.74,"endTime":973.77,"body":"They're like, really? Like, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":964.74,"endTime":973.77,"body":"know, it was, it was a good time"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":973.77,"endTime":977.76,"body":"to do it. And also, up there,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":973.77,"endTime":977.76,"body":"again, the podcast format is"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":977.76,"endTime":982.32,"body":"actually uniquely suited to, to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":977.76,"endTime":982.32,"body":"kind of filling this gap that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":982.32,"endTime":987.93,"body":"you, you know, that you can't"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":982.32,"endTime":987.93,"body":"really do in print. And also, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":987.93,"endTime":992.37,"body":"mean, it's very hard to make"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":987.93,"endTime":992.37,"body":"legal cases interesting in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":992.37,"endTime":992.7,"body":"print."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":993.419,"endTime":996.959,"body":"Yeah. I can see"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":993.419,"endTime":996.959,"body":"that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":998.039,"endTime":1000.829,"body":"Whereas in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":998.039,"endTime":1000.829,"body":"audio, like even in, in season"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1000.829,"endTime":1005.299,"body":"one have drilled with all of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1000.829,"endTime":1005.299,"body":"axon documents, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1005.389,"endTime":1010.459,"body":"reading those is one thing, but"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1005.389,"endTime":1010.459,"body":"having them read to you, it just"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1010.459,"endTime":1012.349,"body":"kind of like sinks in a little"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1010.459,"endTime":1012.349,"body":"bit more,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1012.47,"endTime":1014.51,"body":"because it changes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1012.47,"endTime":1014.51,"body":"the dynamic enormously. And the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1014.51,"endTime":1015.83,"body":"impact enormously, I think,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1044.229,"endTime":1048.879,"body":"yeah, so. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1044.229,"endTime":1048.879,"body":"anyway, that's, that's the sort"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1048.879,"endTime":1052.929,"body":"of genesis of damages. And in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1048.879,"endTime":1052.929,"body":"the first season, we're looking"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1052.989,"endTime":1059.169,"body":"at rights of nature cases. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1052.989,"endTime":1059.169,"body":"this idea that ecosystems can"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1059.169,"endTime":1062.769,"body":"have rights in the same way"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1059.169,"endTime":1062.769,"body":"that, you know, corporations"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1062.769,"endTime":1069.789,"body":"have rights, for example, or, or"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1062.769,"endTime":1069.789,"body":"other organizations. And, and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1069.789,"endTime":1074.439,"body":"then, you know, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1069.789,"endTime":1074.439,"body":"do some amount of explanatory"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1074.439,"endTime":1077.3790000000001,"body":"episodes to kind of get people"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1074.439,"endTime":1077.3790000000001,"body":"up to speed on the legal"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1077.3790000000001,"endTime":1082.539,"body":"landscape. And then we have a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1077.3790000000001,"endTime":1082.539,"body":"narrative season planned to look"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1082.539,"endTime":1089.949,"body":"at this major offshore drilling"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1082.539,"endTime":1089.949,"body":"project in Guyana, and a suit"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1089.949,"endTime":1093.8790000000001,"body":"that's been filed to try to stop"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1089.949,"endTime":1093.8790000000001,"body":"it. That is extremely"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1093.8790000000001,"endTime":1098.499,"body":"interesting. But the lawyer in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1093.8790000000001,"endTime":1098.499,"body":"that case, used to work for BP."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1098.8890000000001,"endTime":1103.5990000000002,"body":"And she's from Guyana, and she"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1098.8890000000001,"endTime":1103.5990000000002,"body":"went home and started kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1103.5990000000002,"endTime":1108.519,"body":"fighting against the oil"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1103.5990000000002,"endTime":1108.519,"body":"companies and filed like she,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1108.549,"endTime":1113.019,"body":"she, she filed this case against"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1108.549,"endTime":1113.019,"body":"the government, in response to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1113.049,"endTime":1117.6090000000002,"body":"the government, like giving"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1113.049,"endTime":1117.6090000000002,"body":"Exxon Mobil a ton of permits,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1117.6090000000002,"endTime":1121.8690000000001,"body":"and also just signing signing a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1117.6090000000002,"endTime":1121.8690000000001,"body":"contract that, you know, isn't"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1121.8690000000001,"endTime":1127.3590000000002,"body":"even economically logical for."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1121.8690000000001,"endTime":1127.3590000000002,"body":"Like, it doesn't, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1127.3590000000002,"endTime":1130.299,"body":"make them rich, it probably"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1127.3590000000002,"endTime":1130.299,"body":"makes a couple of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1130.299,"endTime":1133.779,"body":"corrupt politicians, very"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1130.299,"endTime":1133.779,"body":"wealthy, but, but that's about"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1133.779,"endTime":1139.1490000000001,"body":"it. And she, I was talking to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1133.779,"endTime":1139.1490000000001,"body":"her about the case. And I asked"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1139.1490000000001,"endTime":1142.3890000000001,"body":"her, you know, what had happened"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1139.1490000000001,"endTime":1142.3890000000001,"body":"so far and what the reaction"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1142.3890000000001,"endTime":1145.1490000000001,"body":"from Exxon had been, and she"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1142.3890000000001,"endTime":1145.1490000000001,"body":"said, Well, the further first"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1145.1490000000001,"endTime":1149.079,"body":"step was to try to say that, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1145.1490000000001,"endTime":1149.079,"body":"know, I was misunderstanding the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1149.079,"endTime":1153.429,"body":"constitutional amendment in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1149.079,"endTime":1153.429,"body":"Guyana, that guarantees a right"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1153.429,"endTime":1156.759,"body":"to a healthy environment. But"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1153.429,"endTime":1156.759,"body":"that argument didn't last very"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1156.759,"endTime":1164.079,"body":"long because I wrote that it was"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1156.759,"endTime":1164.079,"body":"like, amazing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1163.44,"endTime":1166.3500000000001,"body":"It is like some"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1163.44,"endTime":1166.3500000000001,"body":"mansplaining Twitter comment,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1166.3500000000001,"endTime":1166.98,"body":"you'd see isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1169.56,"endTime":1173.6100000000001,"body":"it really is. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1169.56,"endTime":1173.6100000000001,"body":"anyway, it's that will be an"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1173.6100000000001,"endTime":1176.67,"body":"interesting story to really dig"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1173.6100000000001,"endTime":1176.67,"body":"into and then again, like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1176.7,"endTime":1180.96,"body":"there's been, you know, some"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1176.7,"endTime":1180.96,"body":"articles about it. But it's so"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1180.96,"endTime":1185.16,"body":"complicated, and I feel like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1180.96,"endTime":1185.16,"body":"there's a way that you can get"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1185.16,"endTime":1189.5700000000002,"body":"into a story like that in you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1185.16,"endTime":1189.5700000000002,"body":"know, over the course of eight"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1189.5700000000002,"endTime":1192.3,"body":"episodes of a podcast that you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1189.5700000000002,"endTime":1192.3,"body":"just can't you just don't have"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1192.3,"endTime":1197.19,"body":"the room to do in even a long"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1192.3,"endTime":1197.19,"body":"magazine article. Same with like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1197.19,"endTime":1200.88,"body":"we did a season have drilled on"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1197.19,"endTime":1200.88,"body":"the chevron Ecuador case and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1200.91,"endTime":1204.96,"body":"Toya Onsager and that I mean"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1200.91,"endTime":1204.96,"body":"it's it's a 30 year saga, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1204.96,"endTime":1210.3600000000001,"body":"can tell that story in one"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1204.96,"endTime":1210.3600000000001,"body":"magazine article. So anyway,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1210.39,"endTime":1213.18,"body":"and it continues I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1210.39,"endTime":1213.18,"body":"saw him post on Twitter the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1213.18,"endTime":1215.49,"body":"other day that he got the ankle"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1213.18,"endTime":1215.49,"body":"bracelet off."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1215.88,"endTime":1221.4,"body":"Yeah, he got the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1215.88,"endTime":1221.4,"body":"cloth. No, he I think his some"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1221.4,"endTime":1226.89,"body":"his sentence is finally done in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1221.4,"endTime":1226.89,"body":"April. So that's good. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1226.89,"endTime":1232.14,"body":"that whole Story was wild,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1226.89,"endTime":1232.14,"body":"really, really wild. And there"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1232.14,"endTime":1236.46,"body":"again, like other people had"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1232.14,"endTime":1236.46,"body":"written about it and covered it"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1236.46,"endTime":1240.63,"body":"and all of that stuff. But there"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1236.46,"endTime":1240.63,"body":"was there's just so much to it"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1240.66,"endTime":1247.71,"body":"that you can't really get into"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1240.66,"endTime":1247.71,"body":"unless you read 1000s of core"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1247.71,"endTime":1251.1000000000001,"body":"documents. So, so yeah, those"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1247.71,"endTime":1251.1000000000001,"body":"are those are the kinds of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1251.1000000000001,"endTime":1252.45,"body":"stories that we want to tell."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1252.6000000000001,"endTime":1255.27,"body":"And that's the cool"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1252.6000000000001,"endTime":1255.27,"body":"thing, of course, because in a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1255.27,"endTime":1259.41,"body":"podcast, you are able to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1255.27,"endTime":1259.41,"body":"summarize it, and obviously"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1259.44,"endTime":1262.74,"body":"break it out over a number of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1259.44,"endTime":1262.74,"body":"episodes, but summarize it get"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1262.74,"endTime":1266.91,"body":"to the salient points and have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1262.74,"endTime":1266.91,"body":"it given in an audio format,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1266.91,"endTime":1271.2,"body":"which is far easier to consume"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1266.91,"endTime":1271.2,"body":"than reading down through pages"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1271.2,"endTime":1275.0700000000002,"body":"and pages pages, if someone is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1271.2,"endTime":1275.0700000000002,"body":"presented with, you know, a 15"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1275.0700000000002,"endTime":1279.15,"body":"page document telling the story,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1275.0700000000002,"endTime":1279.15,"body":"it's you, that's work, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1279.15,"endTime":1282.15,"body":"you actually have to sit down,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1279.15,"endTime":1282.15,"body":"and you have to pay through it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1282.15,"endTime":1286.3500000000001,"body":"And it's like, but consuming it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1282.15,"endTime":1286.3500000000001,"body":"in a podcast, on your way to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1286.3500000000001,"endTime":1291.39,"body":"work or walking the dogs. You"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1286.3500000000001,"endTime":1291.39,"body":"know, it's a far, far easier way"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1291.39,"endTime":1293.25,"body":"to get the information in."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1293.91,"endTime":1296.79,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1293.91,"endTime":1296.79,"body":"exactly. Yeah, they say that,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1296.79,"endTime":1300.66,"body":"um, there's a research study"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1296.79,"endTime":1300.66,"body":"that I think I Heart Radio did"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1300.66,"endTime":1306.8400000000001,"body":"that said that podcast like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1300.66,"endTime":1306.8400000000001,"body":"audio is the only form of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1306.8400000000001,"endTime":1312.15,"body":"meeting where people don't tend"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1306.8400000000001,"endTime":1312.15,"body":"to do other tasks that like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1312.15,"endTime":1316.17,"body":"require the same part of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1312.15,"endTime":1316.17,"body":"brain. So like, you, you might"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1316.17,"endTime":1318.5700000000002,"body":"listen to a podcast while you're"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1316.17,"endTime":1318.5700000000002,"body":"walking the dog, or when you're"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1318.5700000000002,"endTime":1320.8500000000001,"body":"doing dishes or cooking or"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1318.5700000000002,"endTime":1320.8500000000001,"body":"whatever, but you're not like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1321.15,"endTime":1324.45,"body":"taking in other types of content"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1321.15,"endTime":1324.45,"body":"at the same time. And I was"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1324.45,"endTime":1327.39,"body":"like, oh, yeah, that's true,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1324.45,"endTime":1327.39,"body":"actually. Because when I'm"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1327.39,"endTime":1331.68,"body":"watching TV, I definitely like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1327.39,"endTime":1331.68,"body":"you know, veer towards my phone"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1332.04,"endTime":1336.69,"body":"more often than I would like to."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1332.04,"endTime":1336.69,"body":"And even when I'm reading like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1336.69,"endTime":1342.63,"body":"if I'm especially if I'm reading"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1336.69,"endTime":1342.63,"body":"something on online, I'm, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1342.63,"endTime":1346.95,"body":"know, it's like all this is also"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1342.63,"endTime":1346.95,"body":"embarrassing, but But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1346.95,"endTime":1349.98,"body":"like, I'll read a couple pages"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1346.95,"endTime":1349.98,"body":"and then be like, what's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1349.98,"endTime":1355.8600000000001,"body":"happening over here? Guys, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1349.98,"endTime":1355.8600000000001,"body":"just, I just listened to it. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1355.8600000000001,"endTime":1356.73,"body":"that's it, you know?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1356.91,"endTime":1359.97,"body":"No, I'm very ADD as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1356.91,"endTime":1359.97,"body":"well. So you know, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1360.3,"endTime":1363.54,"body":"reading an article or writing an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1360.3,"endTime":1363.54,"body":"email or doing you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1363.54,"endTime":1366.0900000000001,"body":"Twitter's open on my left"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1363.54,"endTime":1366.0900000000001,"body":"screen, LinkedIn is their"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1366.1200000000001,"endTime":1369.1200000000001,"body":"notifications are coming up."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1366.1200000000001,"endTime":1369.1200000000001,"body":"And, you know, it can take me an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1369.15,"endTime":1371.64,"body":"hour to write a two sentence"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1369.15,"endTime":1371.64,"body":"email. That's a slight"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1371.64,"endTime":1374.94,"body":"exaggeration, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1371.64,"endTime":1374.94,"body":"because I'm Oh, yeah. Oh, that's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1375.03,"endTime":1379.8,"body":"Oh, they answered me. Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1375.03,"endTime":1379.8,"body":"Yes, well, activity goes down."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1380.799,"endTime":1384.309,"body":"I know. I know."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1380.799,"endTime":1384.309,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I think"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1385.5990000000002,"endTime":1390.939,"body":"it makes good use of the medium."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1385.5990000000002,"endTime":1390.939,"body":"And that's I, I tried to find"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1390.999,"endTime":1395.709,"body":"stories where it makes the most"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1390.999,"endTime":1395.709,"body":"sense for them to be told and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1395.949,"endTime":1399.819,"body":"audio like it's, it actually"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1395.949,"endTime":1399.819,"body":"helps people understand it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1400.48,"endTime":1405.16,"body":"Yeah. And just on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1400.48,"endTime":1405.16,"body":"the whole damages thing, are you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1405.28,"endTime":1409.6000000000001,"body":"Is there an uptick in the number"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1405.28,"endTime":1409.6000000000001,"body":"of legal cases being taken"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1409.63,"endTime":1411.8200000000002,"body":"recently? Or is that? Yes, good."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1411.91,"endTime":1414.64,"body":"There is yes,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1411.91,"endTime":1414.64,"body":"there has been a pretty like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1414.79,"endTime":1419.3200000000002,"body":"dramatic increase just in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1414.79,"endTime":1419.3200000000002,"body":"last couple of years, it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1419.3200000000002,"endTime":1425.56,"body":"really jumped from under 200"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1419.3200000000002,"endTime":1425.56,"body":"cases to, you know, several 100"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1425.71,"endTime":1429.19,"body":"At this point, and there's more"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1425.71,"endTime":1429.19,"body":"and more and more coming all the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1429.19,"endTime":1429.8200000000002,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1430.93,"endTime":1433.93,"body":"And is it because"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1430.93,"endTime":1433.93,"body":"they're getting publicity? Or is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1433.93,"endTime":1434.68,"body":"it something else?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1435.549,"endTime":1438.759,"body":"I think it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1435.549,"endTime":1438.759,"body":"because I honestly think it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1438.759,"endTime":1442.8690000000001,"body":"because of inaction on the on"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1438.759,"endTime":1442.8690000000001,"body":"the legislative side. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1442.8990000000001,"endTime":1445.839,"body":"there's actually there's a few"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1442.8990000000001,"endTime":1445.839,"body":"other drivers too. So there have"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1445.839,"endTime":1449.079,"body":"been major advances in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1445.839,"endTime":1449.079,"body":"attribution science. So this is"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1449.079,"endTime":1453.009,"body":"like, right, this new realm of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1449.079,"endTime":1453.009,"body":"climate science that enables"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1453.009,"endTime":1457.089,"body":"people to say, you know, without"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1453.009,"endTime":1457.089,"body":"climate change, like this"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1457.089,"endTime":1461.949,"body":"percentage of the intensity of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1457.089,"endTime":1461.949,"body":"this storm, you know, might"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1461.979,"endTime":1465.1290000000001,"body":"wouldn't have happened"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1461.979,"endTime":1465.1290000000001,"body":"therefore, like, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1465.1290000000001,"endTime":1468.999,"body":"can calculate actual damages"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1465.1290000000001,"endTime":1468.999,"body":"from that like, okay, so if you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1468.999,"endTime":1472.989,"body":"look at, you know, Superstorm"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1468.999,"endTime":1472.989,"body":"Sandy, X percent of the storm"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1472.989,"endTime":1476.709,"body":"surge was caused by climate"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1472.989,"endTime":1476.709,"body":"change, therefore, you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1476.709,"endTime":1480.729,"body":"it's this percent of the damage"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1476.709,"endTime":1480.729,"body":"that was caused, and there's a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1480.759,"endTime":1485.169,"body":"price tag that you can put on"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1480.759,"endTime":1485.169,"body":"that. It also allows for things"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1485.169,"endTime":1488.679,"body":"like the carbon majors report,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1485.169,"endTime":1488.679,"body":"which, you know, kind of is the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1488.679,"endTime":1492.219,"body":"thing that gets cited all the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1488.679,"endTime":1492.219,"body":"time. That's like 70 companies"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1492.249,"endTime":1496.659,"body":"are responsible for X percent of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1492.249,"endTime":1496.659,"body":"emissions and, and that kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1496.659,"endTime":1500.259,"body":"thing. So that has evolved"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1496.659,"endTime":1500.259,"body":"significantly, at the same time"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1500.289,"endTime":1503.469,"body":"that investigative journalists"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1500.289,"endTime":1503.469,"body":"have dug up more and more of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1503.469,"endTime":1508.329,"body":"these documents that show what"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1503.469,"endTime":1508.329,"body":"kinds of strategies the oil"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1508.329,"endTime":1512.229,"body":"companies were deploying along"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1508.329,"endTime":1512.229,"body":"the way. So that has happened,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1512.589,"endTime":1516.249,"body":"and also on the government side"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1512.589,"endTime":1516.249,"body":"to like looking at, you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1516.3990000000001,"endTime":1521.019,"body":"what governments have done and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1516.3990000000001,"endTime":1521.019,"body":"not done to address this issue."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1521.6490000000001,"endTime":1527.3790000000001,"body":"And there are hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1521.6490000000001,"endTime":1527.3790000000001,"body":"countries now that have these"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1527.439,"endTime":1530.409,"body":"constitutional amendments that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1527.439,"endTime":1530.409,"body":"guarantee the right to a healthy"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1530.409,"endTime":1535.719,"body":"environment. Right. So those are"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1530.409,"endTime":1535.719,"body":"being invoked to kind of push"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1535.8690000000001,"endTime":1540.039,"body":"governments to act. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1535.8690000000001,"endTime":1540.039,"body":"it's kind of a confluence of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1540.039,"endTime":1540.789,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1540.94,"endTime":1544.72,"body":"Okay. And is, is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1540.94,"endTime":1544.72,"body":"there a pattern to the types of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1544.72,"endTime":1548.3500000000001,"body":"cases being taken because you,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1544.72,"endTime":1548.3500000000001,"body":"your first few, your your first"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1548.3500000000001,"endTime":1551.8600000000001,"body":"season, you mentioned is about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1548.3500000000001,"endTime":1551.8600000000001,"body":"the rights of nature. But"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1551.8600000000001,"endTime":1555.73,"body":"there's also then things like"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1551.8600000000001,"endTime":1555.73,"body":"France, Germany in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1555.73,"endTime":1558.43,"body":"Netherlands, that those three"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1555.73,"endTime":1558.43,"body":"countries here in Europe,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1558.43,"endTime":1560.5900000000001,"body":"they've had their governments"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1558.43,"endTime":1560.5900000000001,"body":"taken to court and their"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1560.5900000000001,"endTime":1564.43,"body":"governments have lost with"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1560.5900000000001,"endTime":1564.43,"body":"activists saying, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1564.43,"endTime":1567.7,"body":"you're not doing enough to meet"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1564.43,"endTime":1567.7,"body":"your emissions targets, which,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1567.73,"endTime":1570.43,"body":"which is a completely different"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1567.73,"endTime":1570.43,"body":"kind of case than the rights of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1570.43,"endTime":1574.18,"body":"nature case. And then you've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1570.43,"endTime":1574.18,"body":"ones like you mentioned the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1574.18,"endTime":1577.0,"body":"Steven Donziger. One, for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1574.18,"endTime":1577.0,"body":"example. And the one in Guyana,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1577.0,"endTime":1580.42,"body":"which is a different type of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1577.0,"endTime":1580.42,"body":"case again, I don't know a Have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1580.42,"endTime":1584.1100000000001,"body":"you classified them in any way?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1580.42,"endTime":1584.1100000000001,"body":"B? Is there any pattern? Oh,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1584.1100000000001,"endTime":1584.38,"body":"good."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1585.3400000000001,"endTime":1588.46,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1585.3400000000001,"endTime":1588.46,"body":"have, because, because, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1588.46,"endTime":1590.95,"body":"there are actually lots of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1588.46,"endTime":1590.95,"body":"different types of cases. And so"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1590.98,"endTime":1595.5700000000002,"body":"that's kind of what we're doing"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1590.98,"endTime":1595.5700000000002,"body":"in different seasons is, is"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1595.5700000000002,"endTime":1601.0900000000001,"body":"looking at a different type of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1595.5700000000002,"endTime":1601.0900000000001,"body":"case each season. So So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1601.0900000000001,"endTime":1606.43,"body":"there's right nature. There's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1601.0900000000001,"endTime":1606.43,"body":"cases that are kind of invoking"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1606.43,"endTime":1610.51,"body":"government's commitment to the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1606.43,"endTime":1610.51,"body":"Paris Climate Agreement and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1610.51,"endTime":1613.3600000000001,"body":"saying, you know, you made this"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1610.51,"endTime":1613.3600000000001,"body":"commitment, but you're not"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1613.3600000000001,"endTime":1617.74,"body":"sticking to it. There are cases"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1613.3600000000001,"endTime":1617.74,"body":"that are invoking what's called"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1617.74,"endTime":1620.05,"body":"the right to a healthy"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1617.74,"endTime":1620.05,"body":"environment, which is a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1620.05,"endTime":1622.96,"body":"constitutional amendment that a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1620.05,"endTime":1622.96,"body":"lot of countries have adopted."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1622.96,"endTime":1625.9,"body":"And that's really interesting to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1622.96,"endTime":1625.9,"body":"me that the difference between"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1626.2,"endTime":1628.96,"body":"rights of nature and right to a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1626.2,"endTime":1628.96,"body":"healthy environment is very"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1628.96,"endTime":1632.92,"body":"interesting, because right to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1628.96,"endTime":1632.92,"body":"healthy environment is human"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1632.92,"endTime":1637.3300000000002,"body":"centered. So it's a lot easier"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1632.92,"endTime":1637.3300000000002,"body":"to integrate into existing legal"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1637.3300000000002,"endTime":1640.27,"body":"systems, right? It's like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1637.3300000000002,"endTime":1640.27,"body":"well, this makes sense to our"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1640.27,"endTime":1645.97,"body":"current systems. So I think that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1640.27,"endTime":1645.97,"body":"has had a lot more kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1646.0,"endTime":1649.8400000000001,"body":"uptake, then rights of nature."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1646.0,"endTime":1649.8400000000001,"body":"For that reason, it's a lot more"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1649.8400000000001,"endTime":1655.45,"body":"straightforward. And oftentimes,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1649.8400000000001,"endTime":1655.45,"body":"those amendments will apply to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1655.54,"endTime":1658.96,"body":"both present and future"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1655.54,"endTime":1658.96,"body":"generations. So that enables"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1659.5,"endTime":1662.5,"body":"these suits to kind of say,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1659.5,"endTime":1662.5,"body":"look, you're, you're not"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1662.5,"endTime":1666.79,"body":"protecting the rights of future"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1662.5,"endTime":1666.79,"body":"generations, which is super"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1666.79,"endTime":1669.64,"body":"interesting, then you have tort"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1666.79,"endTime":1669.64,"body":"cases, which, you know, tort"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1669.73,"endTime":1675.31,"body":"just means wrong. It's a wrong"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1669.73,"endTime":1675.31,"body":"that's not covered explicitly by"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1675.31,"endTime":1680.05,"body":"any particular law, you know. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1675.31,"endTime":1680.05,"body":"these are your, like, negligence"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1680.05,"endTime":1685.3300000000002,"body":"cases, your liability cases,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1680.05,"endTime":1685.3300000000002,"body":"like those, these damages"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1685.3300000000002,"endTime":1690.94,"body":"related cases, where people are"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1685.3300000000002,"endTime":1690.94,"body":"saying, This company's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1690.97,"endTime":1696.76,"body":"activities are costing me money"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1690.97,"endTime":1696.76,"body":"in this way, then you have your"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1696.76,"endTime":1702.7,"body":"fraud cases, there are starting"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1696.76,"endTime":1702.7,"body":"to be more and more suits that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1702.7,"endTime":1711.04,"body":"are explicitly alleging fraud on"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1702.7,"endTime":1711.04,"body":"behalf of the oil companies. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1711.04,"endTime":1714.6100000000001,"body":"then you have the financial"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1711.04,"endTime":1714.6100000000001,"body":"cases. So there's some really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1714.6100000000001,"endTime":1719.53,"body":"interesting, like fiduciary"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1714.6100000000001,"endTime":1719.53,"body":"responsibility type cases where"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1720.6100000000001,"endTime":1724.78,"body":"lawyers are arguing that you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1720.6100000000001,"endTime":1724.78,"body":"know, that a particular"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1724.81,"endTime":1731.5,"body":"investment firm or bank is, is"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1724.81,"endTime":1731.5,"body":"actually failing to meet, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1731.5,"endTime":1736.8700000000001,"body":"know, commitment to its, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1731.5,"endTime":1736.8700000000001,"body":"exactly, to sort of protect"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1736.8700000000001,"endTime":1741.8500000000001,"body":"people's money or to invest in a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1736.8700000000001,"endTime":1741.8500000000001,"body":"sensible way. There's a thing"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1741.8500000000001,"endTime":1744.55,"body":"come up in the inch, it's really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1741.8500000000001,"endTime":1744.55,"body":"interesting, you're seeing it"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1744.55,"endTime":1748.21,"body":"come up in like the insurance"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1744.55,"endTime":1748.21,"body":"realm as well. Employee"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1748.21,"endTime":1751.69,"body":"Retirement funds, that's another"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1748.21,"endTime":1751.69,"body":"one where, where people are"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1751.69,"endTime":1757.75,"body":"saying, hey, like, my retirement"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1751.69,"endTime":1757.75,"body":"is totally dependent on your"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1757.75,"endTime":1762.01,"body":"investment investment portfolio,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1757.75,"endTime":1762.01,"body":"and you're investing in all"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1762.01,"endTime":1764.65,"body":"these fossil fuel companies. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1762.01,"endTime":1764.65,"body":"that's not a smart investment."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1764.89,"endTime":1768.43,"body":"So, yeah, it's, it's, it's so"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1764.89,"endTime":1768.43,"body":"interesting to me, because it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1768.43,"endTime":1772.54,"body":"sort of, you know, all these"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1768.43,"endTime":1772.54,"body":"different ways that these"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1772.54,"endTime":1775.0900000000001,"body":"arguments can be made. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1772.54,"endTime":1775.0900000000001,"body":"sometimes the target is the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1775.0900000000001,"endTime":1780.22,"body":"government. And sometimes the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1775.0900000000001,"endTime":1780.22,"body":"target is specific companies. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1780.25,"endTime":1783.94,"body":"that's interesting, too, because"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1780.25,"endTime":1783.94,"body":"there's just kind of a weird"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1783.94,"endTime":1787.78,"body":"argument between the lawyers on"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1783.94,"endTime":1787.78,"body":"these cases about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1787.78,"endTime":1791.5900000000001,"body":"kind of who's more responsible,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1787.78,"endTime":1791.5900000000001,"body":"and whether the cases that try"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1791.5900000000001,"endTime":1793.93,"body":"to hold the government"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1791.5900000000001,"endTime":1793.93,"body":"responsible, like undermine the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1793.93,"endTime":1796.3,"body":"cases that tried to hold the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1793.93,"endTime":1796.3,"body":"companies responsible, and it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1796.3,"endTime":1799.3600000000001,"body":"like, well, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1796.3,"endTime":1799.3600000000001,"body":"enough accountability. They go"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1799.3600000000001,"endTime":1800.2,"body":"around here, guys."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1803.5900000000001,"endTime":1808.78,"body":"Fair, fair, fair."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1803.5900000000001,"endTime":1808.78,"body":"Tell me I mean, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1808.78,"endTime":1812.92,"body":"the Guyana case, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1808.78,"endTime":1812.92,"body":"without giving away too much."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1812.92,"endTime":1815.1100000000001,"body":"Can you talk about one or two"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1812.92,"endTime":1815.1100000000001,"body":"other really interesting ones"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1815.1100000000001,"endTime":1817.15,"body":"that you've come across? Yes."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1817.3300000000002,"endTime":1820.5700000000002,"body":"There's a case"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1817.3300000000002,"endTime":1820.5700000000002,"body":"going on right now. That is"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1820.5700000000002,"endTime":1826.06,"body":"fascinating to me, where a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1820.5700000000002,"endTime":1826.06,"body":"farmer in Peru has sued a fossil"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1826.06,"endTime":1834.73,"body":"fuel company in Germany. For the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1826.06,"endTime":1834.73,"body":"impacts that this that melting"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1834.73,"endTime":1840.8500000000001,"body":"glaciers have had on his farming"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1834.73,"endTime":1840.8500000000001,"body":"enterprise, so no one thought"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1840.8500000000001,"endTime":1845.53,"body":"that this case would move"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1840.8500000000001,"endTime":1845.53,"body":"forward, everyone, you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1845.53,"endTime":1848.41,"body":"sort of suspected that it will"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1845.53,"endTime":1848.41,"body":"get thrown out. But the German"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1848.41,"endTime":1854.53,"body":"courts actually affirmed the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1848.41,"endTime":1854.53,"body":"case. So, in like May or June, a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1854.53,"endTime":1860.38,"body":"bunch of German judges are"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1854.53,"endTime":1860.38,"body":"headed, headed to the end to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1860.38,"endTime":1863.5900000000001,"body":"meet this farmer and sort of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1860.38,"endTime":1863.5900000000001,"body":"see, you know, for themselves,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1863.5900000000001,"endTime":1868.21,"body":"what has been going on and all"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1863.5900000000001,"endTime":1868.21,"body":"of that. So, yeah, that one, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1868.21,"endTime":1872.5900000000001,"body":"think, is, is super interesting."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1868.21,"endTime":1872.5900000000001,"body":"I think the Youth Climate cases"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1872.6200000000001,"endTime":1875.74,"body":"are all really interesting, too."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1872.6200000000001,"endTime":1875.74,"body":"So this is sort of another batch"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1875.74,"endTime":1880.3600000000001,"body":"of cases where you have young"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1875.74,"endTime":1880.3600000000001,"body":"people, you know, suing their"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1880.3600000000001,"endTime":1885.64,"body":"governments for not just not"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1880.3600000000001,"endTime":1885.64,"body":"acting on climate, but actually"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1886.3,"endTime":1892.18,"body":"acting to spur climate change in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1886.3,"endTime":1892.18,"body":"a way by, you know, subsidizing"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1892.18,"endTime":1896.3500000000001,"body":"fossil fuels, providing loads of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1892.18,"endTime":1896.3500000000001,"body":"incentives for fossil fuel"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1896.3500000000001,"endTime":1900.88,"body":"development, all of that kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1896.3500000000001,"endTime":1900.88,"body":"stuff. One thing, one really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1900.88,"endTime":1904.0900000000001,"body":"interesting thing, that lawyer"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1900.88,"endTime":1904.0900000000001,"body":"on those cases brought up to me"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1904.0900000000001,"endTime":1908.74,"body":"recently was that, in the bulk"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1904.0900000000001,"endTime":1908.74,"body":"of those cases, lawyers are"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1908.74,"endTime":1913.9,"body":"going in with a demand for"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1908.74,"endTime":1913.9,"body":"governments to meet Paris"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1913.9,"endTime":1918.49,"body":"Climate Agreement goals and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1913.9,"endTime":1918.49,"body":"targets. And her argument was,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1918.97,"endTime":1922.39,"body":"those were a political"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1918.97,"endTime":1922.39,"body":"compromise, is they're not"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1922.42,"endTime":1927.04,"body":"actually what science says is"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1922.42,"endTime":1927.04,"body":"necessary to, you know, really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1927.04,"endTime":1930.3700000000001,"body":"make everything safe. And as"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1927.04,"endTime":1930.3700000000001,"body":"lawyers in the space, especially"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1930.3700000000001,"endTime":1933.49,"body":"plaintiff's lawyers, we should"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1930.3700000000001,"endTime":1933.49,"body":"be going in demanding,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1933.88,"endTime":1938.47,"body":"demanding, like the toughest"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1933.88,"endTime":1938.47,"body":"possible thing, not like"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1939.3400000000001,"endTime":1941.26,"body":"something aligned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1939.3400000000001,"endTime":1941.26,"body":"with the science based targets"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1941.26,"endTime":1943.69,"body":"initiative, for example, right,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1941.26,"endTime":1943.69,"body":"exactly,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1943.69,"endTime":1945.97,"body":"exactly. Like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1943.69,"endTime":1945.97,"body":"something like with that, versus"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1946.42,"endTime":1950.0800000000002,"body":"going in arguing for a political"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1946.42,"endTime":1950.0800000000002,"body":"compromise. She's like, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1950.0800000000002,"endTime":1955.51,"body":"know, I can't think of any other"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1950.0800000000002,"endTime":1955.51,"body":"realm where that has been the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1955.51,"endTime":1960.22,"body":"strategy for plaintiffs lawyers."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1955.51,"endTime":1960.22,"body":"Yeah. So yeah, I was like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1960.22,"endTime":1962.17,"body":"that's really interesting. I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1960.22,"endTime":1962.17,"body":"hadn't even thought about it."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1962.17,"endTime":1967.3600000000001,"body":"But, and her concern is that,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1962.17,"endTime":1967.3600000000001,"body":"you know, though, as those cases"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1967.3600000000001,"endTime":1971.8600000000001,"body":"get settled, then that starts to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1967.3600000000001,"endTime":1971.8600000000001,"body":"set a precedent. And then you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1971.8600000000001,"endTime":1977.1100000000001,"body":"can't argue, the much more"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1971.8600000000001,"endTime":1977.1100000000001,"body":"aggressive target. So anyway,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1977.44,"endTime":1980.2,"body":"it's, it's really, again, like I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1977.44,"endTime":1980.2,"body":"find this stuff really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1980.2,"endTime":1983.95,"body":"fascinating, because it kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1980.2,"endTime":1983.95,"body":"gets into, you know, government"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1983.95,"endTime":1989.0800000000002,"body":"and science and philosophy and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1983.95,"endTime":1989.0800000000002,"body":"cultural values, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":1989.26,"endTime":1990.67,"body":"economy, all of it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1990.789,"endTime":1994.419,"body":"Yeah. Excellent."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1990.789,"endTime":1994.419,"body":"Excellent, excellent. And where"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1994.419,"endTime":1997.269,"body":"to from here? I mean, you've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1994.419,"endTime":1997.269,"body":"mentioned you have several"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1997.269,"endTime":2002.459,"body":"seasons of damages lined up and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1997.269,"endTime":2002.459,"body":"ready to roll, starting, as we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2002.459,"endTime":2005.429,"body":"said earlier, starting tomorrow,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2002.459,"endTime":2005.429,"body":"but what, what comes after that?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2006.6000000000001,"endTime":2011.25,"body":"I have, let's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2006.6000000000001,"endTime":2011.25,"body":"see two more parts of season six"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2011.25,"endTime":2014.3400000000001,"body":"have drilled coming out this"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2011.25,"endTime":2014.3400000000001,"body":"year as well. So we're doing"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2014.3400000000001,"endTime":2020.31,"body":"this three part season on the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2014.3400000000001,"endTime":2020.31,"body":"gas industry, and how that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2020.31,"endTime":2024.66,"body":"industry evolved, how the sort"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2020.31,"endTime":2024.66,"body":"of bridge field narrative"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2024.69,"endTime":2031.44,"body":"evolved, why it's so persistent."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2024.69,"endTime":2031.44,"body":"And then how fracking led to a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2031.44,"endTime":2037.05,"body":"plastics boom. So looking at"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2031.44,"endTime":2037.05,"body":"kind of all of that stuff. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2037.05,"endTime":2041.04,"body":"then I also, I want to do a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2037.05,"endTime":2041.04,"body":"season of drilled and I don't"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2041.04,"endTime":2044.16,"body":"know if I'll get to it this"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2041.04,"endTime":2044.16,"body":"year, if it'll be next year, but"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2044.16,"endTime":2050.1,"body":"on the kind of origin story of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2044.16,"endTime":2050.1,"body":"the idea of corporate free"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2050.1,"endTime":2056.04,"body":"speech, because it actually came"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2050.1,"endTime":2056.04,"body":"from the oil industry. Imagine"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2056.04,"endTime":2066.63,"body":"that. So like, yeah, exactly,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2056.04,"endTime":2066.63,"body":"exactly. So. So that story"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2066.63,"endTime":2071.31,"body":"starts with Mobil Oil in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2066.63,"endTime":2071.31,"body":"early 70s actually trying to to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2071.31,"endTime":2076.11,"body":"get its issue advertising, which"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2071.31,"endTime":2076.11,"body":"had been so effective for it and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2076.11,"endTime":2080.28,"body":"print. So these advertorials"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2076.11,"endTime":2080.28,"body":"that they came up with, they"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2080.28,"endTime":2086.25,"body":"wanted to do TV commercials like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2080.28,"endTime":2086.25,"body":"that. And somehow a different"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2086.25,"endTime":2090.78,"body":"time. The top three American"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2086.25,"endTime":2090.78,"body":"network said, No, we're not"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2090.78,"endTime":2095.7000000000003,"body":"going to do that. That's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2090.78,"endTime":2095.7000000000003,"body":"propaganda. Yeah, and mobile"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2095.7000000000003,"endTime":2100.08,"body":"went ballistic about it. Anyway,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2095.7000000000003,"endTime":2100.08,"body":"so that there's a whole really"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2100.08,"endTime":2103.83,"body":"interesting backstory there. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2100.08,"endTime":2103.83,"body":"it connects up to these cases,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2103.83,"endTime":2107.43,"body":"because the number one argument"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2103.83,"endTime":2107.43,"body":"that the oil companies are"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2107.43,"endTime":2111.33,"body":"starting to coalesce around is a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2107.43,"endTime":2111.33,"body":"free speech argument that they"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2111.33,"endTime":2116.04,"body":"can they have the right to say,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2111.33,"endTime":2116.04,"body":"whatever they want about climate"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2116.04,"endTime":2119.94,"body":"change, and that anyone who says"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2116.04,"endTime":2119.94,"body":"otherwise is infringing on their"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2119.94,"endTime":2125.25,"body":"free speech rights. So there's a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2119.94,"endTime":2125.25,"body":"real straight line from those"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2125.25,"endTime":2131.07,"body":"arguments in the early 70s to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2125.25,"endTime":2131.07,"body":"Today? Yeah, so So yeah, more,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2131.31,"endTime":2132.33,"body":"more of the same"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2133.44,"endTime":2136.35,"body":"goodgoodgood."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2133.44,"endTime":2136.35,"body":"Slightly different question,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2136.35,"endTime":2141.7200000000003,"body":"Amy, given all this that's going"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2136.35,"endTime":2141.7200000000003,"body":"on? Are you optimistic for the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2141.7200000000003,"endTime":2142.17,"body":"future?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2143.549,"endTime":2148.7690000000002,"body":"Oh, that's a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2143.549,"endTime":2148.7690000000002,"body":"good question. I guess, let's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2148.7690000000002,"endTime":2152.819,"body":"see, how do I think about this,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2148.7690000000002,"endTime":2152.819,"body":"I kind of think about it as more"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2152.819,"endTime":2159.779,"body":"of like, resilience than"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2152.819,"endTime":2159.779,"body":"optimism, I think that I think"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2159.779,"endTime":2167.069,"body":"that people are kind of figuring"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2159.779,"endTime":2167.069,"body":"out a way to continue sort of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2167.189,"endTime":2173.159,"body":"fighting for what needs to be"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2167.189,"endTime":2173.159,"body":"done, even as they sort of come"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2173.159,"endTime":2178.619,"body":"up against loss after loss after"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2173.159,"endTime":2178.619,"body":"loss. And like, so I kind of see"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2178.619,"endTime":2181.469,"body":"the climate movement, like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2178.619,"endTime":2181.469,"body":"growing up a little bit and kind"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2181.469,"endTime":2187.919,"body":"of, you know, well, developing"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2181.469,"endTime":2187.919,"body":"some grit and like, and, and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2187.919,"endTime":2192.719,"body":"resilience, and that does give"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2187.919,"endTime":2192.719,"body":"me a little bit of optimism, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2192.719,"endTime":2199.7690000000002,"body":"also, I, I do find a bit of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2192.719,"endTime":2199.7690000000002,"body":"optimism in the, the youth"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2199.799,"endTime":2203.669,"body":"movements, not because I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2199.799,"endTime":2203.669,"body":"Oh, the youth will save us or"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2203.669,"endTime":2207.809,"body":"anything like that. But actually"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2203.669,"endTime":2207.809,"body":"just real operational terms, the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2207.809,"endTime":2213.449,"body":"way that they function is very"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2207.809,"endTime":2213.449,"body":"different from the way that sort"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2213.449,"endTime":2218.669,"body":"of previous generations function"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2213.449,"endTime":2218.669,"body":"like they're, they're genuinely"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2218.669,"endTime":2222.959,"body":"committed to a sort of flattened"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2218.669,"endTime":2222.959,"body":"hierarchy in a way that I think"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2222.959,"endTime":2227.9990000000003,"body":"is, is really interesting, and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2222.959,"endTime":2227.9990000000003,"body":"is also very necessary for the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2227.9990000000003,"endTime":2233.609,"body":"sort of community resilience"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2227.9990000000003,"endTime":2233.609,"body":"that we will need to live with,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2234.4790000000003,"endTime":2240.419,"body":"you know, climate impacts. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2234.4790000000003,"endTime":2240.419,"body":"that is very interesting to see,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2240.4790000000003,"endTime":2245.2490000000003,"body":"I think I'm also seeing a lot"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2240.4790000000003,"endTime":2245.2490000000003,"body":"more people really start to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2245.579,"endTime":2250.9790000000003,"body":"understand kind of systems"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2245.579,"endTime":2250.9790000000003,"body":"thinking in a way that I haven't"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2250.9790000000003,"endTime":2254.819,"body":"seen in the past. So that's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2250.9790000000003,"endTime":2254.819,"body":"promising to or people are"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2254.819,"endTime":2258.869,"body":"starting to be like, oh, wait a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2254.819,"endTime":2258.869,"body":"minute. And the biggest example"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2258.869,"endTime":2262.949,"body":"of that, I think, is the sort of"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2258.869,"endTime":2262.949,"body":"slow realization that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2263.309,"endTime":2271.2290000000003,"body":"oh, electrification requires a"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2263.309,"endTime":2271.2290000000003,"body":"lot of mining? Hmm, we have"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2271.2290000000003,"endTime":2274.949,"body":"this, we have this thing coming"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2271.2290000000003,"endTime":2274.949,"body":"up again, how are we you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2274.949,"endTime":2278.879,"body":"so I think people are starting"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2274.949,"endTime":2278.879,"body":"to realize, oh, okay, if we just"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2278.879,"endTime":2282.179,"body":"think about it as like"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2278.879,"endTime":2282.179,"body":"replacing, you know, an oil"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2282.179,"endTime":2285.4790000000003,"body":"well, with a battery, that's not"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2282.179,"endTime":2285.4790000000003,"body":"going to get that's not going to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2285.4790000000003,"endTime":2290.9990000000003,"body":"get us to actually a solution."},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2285.4790000000003,"endTime":2290.9990000000003,"body":"We need to sort of think about"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2291.029,"endTime":2296.429,"body":"what systems will and like, Will"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2291.029,"endTime":2296.429,"body":"will get us there and what kind"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2296.429,"endTime":2301.049,"body":"of thinking we need to be"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2296.429,"endTime":2301.049,"body":"applying. This is not at all to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2301.049,"endTime":2303.449,"body":"say that I'm against"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2301.049,"endTime":2303.449,"body":"electrification. But I think"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2303.449,"endTime":2308.909,"body":"that it's encouraging to me that"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2303.449,"endTime":2308.909,"body":"even in these somewhat early"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2308.909,"endTime":2313.829,"body":"phases, people are starting at"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2308.909,"endTime":2313.829,"body":"least to grapple with that and"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2313.829,"endTime":2319.889,"body":"like trying to sort of quickly"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2313.829,"endTime":2319.889,"body":"adjust and, and figure out, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2319.889,"endTime":2323.849,"body":"know, what can we do here to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2319.889,"endTime":2323.849,"body":"make this more sustainable? What"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2323.849,"endTime":2327.959,"body":"can we do to not repeat the"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2323.849,"endTime":2327.959,"body":"mistakes of the past? That's not"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2327.959,"endTime":2331.829,"body":"something that I have seen in"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2327.959,"endTime":2331.829,"body":"much of history. So that's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2332.52,"endTime":2336.21,"body":"good to know this."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2332.52,"endTime":2336.21,"body":"I see a lot of I mean, there was"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2336.21,"endTime":2340.7400000000002,"body":"a podcast I heard recently"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2336.21,"endTime":2340.7400000000002,"body":"talking about JB Straubel. He"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2340.7400000000002,"endTime":2343.83,"body":"used to work for Tesla. And now"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2340.7400000000002,"endTime":2343.83,"body":"he has a battery recycling"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2343.83,"endTime":2345.9900000000002,"body":"company, for example, that he's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2343.83,"endTime":2345.9900000000002,"body":"starting up. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2346.65,"endTime":2348.3,"body":"right in my"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2346.65,"endTime":2348.3,"body":"backyard, actually."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2349.049,"endTime":2350.849,"body":"There you go. There"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2349.049,"endTime":2350.849,"body":"you go. So that's that's right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2350.849,"endTime":2354.239,"body":"To your point. Me, we're coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2350.849,"endTime":2354.239,"body":"towards the end of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2354.239,"endTime":2357.7490000000003,"body":"Now. Is there any question I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2354.239,"endTime":2357.7490000000003,"body":"haven't asked that you wish I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2357.7490000000003,"endTime":2361.049,"body":"had, or any aspect of this? We"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2357.7490000000003,"endTime":2361.049,"body":"haven't covered off that you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2361.049,"endTime":2362.399,"body":"think people should be aware of?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2363.33,"endTime":2366.2400000000002,"body":"Oh, I don't"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2363.33,"endTime":2366.2400000000002,"body":"think so. I feel like we covered"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2366.87,"endTime":2370.53,"body":"all of the bases. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2370.7400000000002,"endTime":2374.19,"body":"super, super well,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2370.7400000000002,"endTime":2374.19,"body":"in that case? No, no, thank you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2374.2200000000003,"endTime":2378.06,"body":"In that case, if people want to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2374.2200000000003,"endTime":2378.06,"body":"know more about yourself, or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2378.06,"endTime":2382.4700000000003,"body":"about drilled or about damages,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2378.06,"endTime":2382.4700000000003,"body":"or any of the other publications"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2382.4700000000003,"endTime":2384.4500000000003,"body":"that you're involved with, where"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2382.4700000000003,"endTime":2384.4500000000003,"body":"would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2385.98,"endTime":2390.7200000000003,"body":"People can go to"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2385.98,"endTime":2390.7200000000003,"body":"critical frequency.org. That's"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2390.7200000000003,"endTime":2399.27,"body":"the name of the sort of small"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2390.7200000000003,"endTime":2399.27,"body":"podcasts network that I run. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2399.57,"endTime":2403.92,"body":"they can also follow me on"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2399.57,"endTime":2403.92,"body":"Twitter at any Westervelt save"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2403.92,"endTime":2407.73,"body":"her apologies in advance. For"},{"speaker":"Amy Westervelt","startTime":2403.92,"endTime":2407.73,"body":"those who choose to."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2412.98,"endTime":2414.7200000000003,"body":"I'm sure there's no"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2412.98,"endTime":2414.7200000000003,"body":"apologies necessary. Okay. I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2414.7200000000003,"endTime":2417.3,"body":"mean, that's been fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2414.7200000000003,"endTime":2417.3,"body":"Thank you so much for coming on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2417.3,"endTime":2420.18,"body":"the podcast today. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2417.3,"endTime":2420.18,"body":"having me. I appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2421.29,"endTime":2424.05,"body":"Okay, we've come to the end of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2421.29,"endTime":2424.05,"body":"the show. Thanks, everyone for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2424.05,"endTime":2428.2200000000003,"body":"listening. If you'd like to know"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2424.05,"endTime":2428.2200000000003,"body":"more about climate 21 Feel free"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2428.2200000000003,"endTime":2432.51,"body":"to drop me an email to Tom"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2428.2200000000003,"endTime":2432.51,"body":"raftery@sap.com or connect with"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2432.51,"endTime":2435.96,"body":"me on LinkedIn or Twitter. If"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2432.51,"endTime":2435.96,"body":"you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2435.96,"endTime":2438.27,"body":"forget to subscribe to it and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2435.96,"endTime":2438.27,"body":"your podcast application of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2438.27,"endTime":2442.35,"body":"choice to get new episodes as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2438.27,"endTime":2442.35,"body":"soon as they're published. Also,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2442.71,"endTime":2445.65,"body":"please don't forget to rate and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2442.71,"endTime":2445.65,"body":"review the podcast. It really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2445.65,"endTime":2450.66,"body":"does help new people to find the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2445.65,"endTime":2450.66,"body":"show. Thanks. Catch you all next"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2450.66,"endTime":2450.93,"body":"time."}]}