{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2.97,"endTime":6.27,"body":"This is the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2.97,"endTime":6.27,"body":"idea of flying airplanes up to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":6.27,"endTime":9.78,"body":"the lower stratosphere and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":6.27,"endTime":9.78,"body":"blowing out of the back of them."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":10.32,"endTime":14.4,"body":"Reflective aerosol particles"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":10.32,"endTime":14.4,"body":"that would stay aloft for 12 to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":14.4,"endTime":19.65,"body":"18 months and reduce the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":14.4,"endTime":19.65,"body":"incoming sunlight by one or 2%."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":23.95,"endTime":25.9,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":23.95,"endTime":25.9,"body":"afternoon or good evening"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":25.9,"endTime":29.62,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":25.9,"endTime":29.62,"body":"This is the climate 21 podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":29.65,"endTime":32.74,"body":"the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":29.65,"endTime":32.74,"body":"showcasing best practices in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":32.74,"endTime":36.1,"body":"climate emissions reductions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":32.74,"endTime":36.1,"body":"And I'm your host, global vice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.1,"endTime":40.93,"body":"president for SAP. Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.1,"endTime":40.93,"body":"Climate 21 is the name of an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":40.93,"endTime":44.77,"body":"initiative by SAP to allow our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":40.93,"endTime":44.77,"body":"customers calculate, report and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":44.77,"endTime":48.46,"body":"reduce their greenhouse gas"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":44.77,"endTime":48.46,"body":"emissions. In this climate 21"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.46,"endTime":52.15,"body":"podcast, I will showcase best"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.46,"endTime":52.15,"body":"practices and thought leadership"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":52.15,"endTime":56.65,"body":"by SAP, by our customers by our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":52.15,"endTime":56.65,"body":"partners on by our competitors"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":56.65,"endTime":60.76,"body":"if their game in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":56.65,"endTime":60.76,"body":"emissions reductions. Don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.76,"endTime":64.24,"body":"forget to subscribe to this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.76,"endTime":64.24,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":64.24,"endTime":69.31,"body":"choice to be sure you don't miss"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":64.24,"endTime":69.31,"body":"any episodes. Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.31,"endTime":72.31,"body":"Welcome to the Climate 21"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.31,"endTime":72.31,"body":"podcast. My name is Tom Raftery"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":72.31,"endTime":76.42,"body":"with SAP and with me on the show"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":72.31,"endTime":76.42,"body":"today I have my special guest"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":76.42,"endTime":79.81,"body":"Wake. Wake, would you like to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":76.42,"endTime":79.81,"body":"introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":80.46,"endTime":86.25,"body":"Sure, I am a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":80.46,"endTime":86.25,"body":"lecturer at Yale University and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":86.25,"endTime":92.4,"body":"a fellow at the Harvard Kennedy"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":86.25,"endTime":92.4,"body":"School in both contexts, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":93.0,"endTime":98.58,"body":"researcher and professor and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":93.0,"endTime":98.58,"body":"author on the topic of climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":98.61,"endTime":104.07,"body":"interventions. I've also just"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":98.61,"endTime":104.07,"body":"turned my course syllabus into a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":104.07,"endTime":108.18,"body":"book which will be published in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":104.07,"endTime":108.18,"body":"late March, the title of which"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":108.21,"endTime":112.2,"body":"is Pandora's toolbox, the hopes"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":108.21,"endTime":112.2,"body":"and hazards of climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":112.2,"endTime":118.53,"body":"interventions, right. So climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":112.2,"endTime":118.53,"body":"interventions is is is my life"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":118.53,"endTime":119.94,"body":"these days? Wow."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":120.06,"endTime":122.76,"body":"Wow. And obviously,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":120.06,"endTime":122.76,"body":"you're hoping to get rich off"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":122.76,"endTime":123.6,"body":"the back of that book?"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":124.53,"endTime":128.34,"body":"Actually, not I"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":124.53,"endTime":128.34,"body":"have written in the epilogue"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":128.61,"endTime":132.9,"body":"that any revenue I derived from"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":128.61,"endTime":132.9,"body":"the publication of the book will"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":132.9,"endTime":137.58,"body":"be donated to climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":132.9,"endTime":137.58,"body":"intervention research. Now, I'm"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":137.58,"endTime":142.08,"body":"not sure that's a big sacrifice."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":137.58,"endTime":142.08,"body":"anybody's gonna buy the book,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":142.08,"endTime":148.11,"body":"but, but no, I've decided to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":142.08,"endTime":148.11,"body":"make this a not profit making"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":148.14,"endTime":153.48,"body":"endeavor in order to try to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":148.14,"endTime":153.48,"body":"establish some bona fide ease"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":153.48,"endTime":157.98,"body":"that I really have a message"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":153.48,"endTime":157.98,"body":"you're trying to spread and and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":158.01,"endTime":160.89,"body":"it isn't my intention to profit"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":158.01,"endTime":160.89,"body":"while doing so."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":161.07,"endTime":164.85,"body":"Okay, very good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":161.07,"endTime":164.85,"body":"So, before we get into the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":164.85,"endTime":168.78,"body":"message, just briefly, why? Why"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":164.85,"endTime":168.78,"body":"did you get into climate in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":168.78,"endTime":170.97,"body":"first place something that's not"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":168.78,"endTime":170.97,"body":"something that people were"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":170.97,"endTime":173.64,"body":"looking into deeply? I suspect"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":170.97,"endTime":173.64,"body":"or not many people were looking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":173.64,"endTime":176.28,"body":"at the DPS aspect 20 3040 years"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":173.64,"endTime":176.28,"body":"ago,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":176.7,"endTime":179.16,"body":"you were"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":176.7,"endTime":179.16,"body":"entirely right. And the subject"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":179.16,"endTime":183.42,"body":"was new to me not too long ago,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":179.16,"endTime":183.42,"body":"not climate generally, but"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":183.42,"endTime":188.55,"body":"climate interventions."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":183.42,"endTime":188.55,"body":"Specifically, I had a long"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":188.55,"endTime":192.9,"body":"career in the commercial"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":188.55,"endTime":192.9,"body":"aviation and aviation finance"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":192.96,"endTime":196.98,"body":"fields. So I have run a global"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":192.96,"endTime":196.98,"body":"cargo airline, I was the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":196.98,"endTime":200.91,"body":"president of a division of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":196.98,"endTime":200.91,"body":"Boeing. I was a bankruptcy and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":200.91,"endTime":204.69,"body":"restructuring consultant in that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":200.91,"endTime":204.69,"body":"field, and ended up in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":204.69,"endTime":208.47,"body":"private equity industry as it"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":204.69,"endTime":208.47,"body":"pertained to commercial"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":208.47,"endTime":214.29,"body":"aviation. But I became aware of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":208.47,"endTime":214.29,"body":"some years ago, that, again, the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":214.29,"endTime":220.32,"body":"climate problem ain't getting"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":214.29,"endTime":220.32,"body":"any better. And my industry, the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":220.59,"endTime":224.25,"body":"commercial aviation industry was"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":220.59,"endTime":224.25,"body":"one among many industries"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":224.25,"endTime":228.24,"body":"contributing to the problem. But"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":224.25,"endTime":228.24,"body":"I became aware that there was"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":228.24,"endTime":231.39,"body":"also a way in which the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":228.24,"endTime":231.39,"body":"commercial aviation industry"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":231.54,"endTime":237.3,"body":"could contribute to a solution."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":231.54,"endTime":237.3,"body":"And it was via that path that I"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":237.3,"endTime":241.56,"body":"first came into the field of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":237.3,"endTime":241.56,"body":"climate interventions, looking"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":241.56,"endTime":244.95,"body":"at it initially from an"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":241.56,"endTime":244.95,"body":"aeronautical and financial"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":245.04,"endTime":249.78,"body":"perspective. But one thing leads"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":245.04,"endTime":249.78,"body":"to another. And so I now teach a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":249.78,"endTime":253.44,"body":"course and right have written a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":249.78,"endTime":253.44,"body":"book that is a comprehensive"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":253.53,"endTime":257.28,"body":"look at all of the potential"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":253.53,"endTime":257.28,"body":"tools in the climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":257.28,"endTime":258.12,"body":"intervention"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":258.21,"endTime":261.12,"body":"toolbox. And what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":258.21,"endTime":261.12,"body":"are climate interventions."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":262.35,"endTime":265.68,"body":"They're all the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":262.35,"endTime":265.68,"body":"stuff we need to do to solve the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":265.68,"endTime":270.03,"body":"climate problem other than the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":265.68,"endTime":270.03,"body":"stuff everybody knows about."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":270.9,"endTime":275.13,"body":"That that ladder stuff being"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":270.9,"endTime":275.13,"body":"reducing emissions, or"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":275.13,"endTime":279.75,"body":"adaptation, but reducing"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":275.13,"endTime":279.75,"body":"emissions or mitigation, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":279.75,"endTime":283.95,"body":"adaptation are the two tools"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":279.75,"endTime":283.95,"body":"that the world is broadly aware,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":284.07,"endTime":288.9,"body":"need to be pursued. I'm afraid"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":284.07,"endTime":288.9,"body":"those tools will not prove to be"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":288.9,"endTime":293.82,"body":"sufficient in and of themselves,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":288.9,"endTime":293.82,"body":"to secure a climate future that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":293.97,"endTime":297.84,"body":"future generations will find"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":293.97,"endTime":297.84,"body":"acceptable. And so again,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":297.84,"endTime":303.81,"body":"climate interventions or"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":297.84,"endTime":303.81,"body":"geoengineering refers to all the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":303.81,"endTime":307.65,"body":"other stuff that we might"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":303.81,"endTime":307.65,"body":"additionally need to do to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":307.65,"endTime":309.81,"body":"secure an acceptable climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":307.65,"endTime":309.81,"body":"future."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":310.589,"endTime":312.959,"body":"And why do you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":310.589,"endTime":312.959,"body":"think that is? Why do you think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":312.959,"endTime":317.099,"body":"that, you know, just getting to,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":312.959,"endTime":317.099,"body":"for example, Net Zero, isn't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":317.099,"endTime":317.489,"body":"enough."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":318.329,"endTime":321.059,"body":"So let me first"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":318.329,"endTime":321.059,"body":"say, I'm thrilled that the world"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":321.059,"endTime":326.549,"body":"is focused on net zero, that is"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":321.059,"endTime":326.549,"body":"the first climate framing that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":326.549,"endTime":332.039,"body":"the general public seems broadly"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":326.549,"endTime":332.039,"body":"to understand and accept. And so"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":332.039,"endTime":336.929,"body":"it's a great thing that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":332.039,"endTime":336.929,"body":"countries and companies and even"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":336.929,"endTime":343.109,"body":"some people, buildings, all"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":336.929,"endTime":343.109,"body":"sorts of segments of society are"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":343.109,"endTime":347.849,"body":"now aspiring to net zero and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":343.109,"endTime":347.849,"body":"setting ambitious net zero"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":347.849,"endTime":353.999,"body":"goals. The problems are at least"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":347.849,"endTime":353.999,"body":"twofold. One of them, we won't"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":354.029,"endTime":357.809,"body":"achieve those goals, or at least"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":354.029,"endTime":357.809,"body":"we will not achieve them on the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":357.809,"endTime":363.779,"body":"timeframe that is currently"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":357.809,"endTime":363.779,"body":"considered. And if that first"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":363.779,"endTime":368.129,"body":"statement is true, then"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":363.779,"endTime":368.129,"body":"achieving net zero will not be"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":368.129,"endTime":372.749,"body":"enough. Back to the first half"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":368.129,"endTime":372.749,"body":"of that, though, 2050 is the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":372.749,"endTime":377.129,"body":"most commonly referred to date"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":372.749,"endTime":377.129,"body":"by which countries or companies"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":377.129,"endTime":382.109,"body":"or other entities aspire to get"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":377.129,"endTime":382.109,"body":"to net zero, I just think that's"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":382.139,"endTime":390.659,"body":"very unlikely. For most actors,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":382.139,"endTime":390.659,"body":"it's entirely impossible for the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":390.659,"endTime":395.009,"body":"world as a whole. And so even if"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":390.659,"endTime":395.009,"body":"somebody gets to net zero by"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":395.009,"endTime":399.809,"body":"2050, if the whole world hasn't"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":395.009,"endTime":399.809,"body":"gotten to net zero by 2050,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":399.989,"endTime":404.099,"body":"we're still making the climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":399.989,"endTime":404.099,"body":"problem worse, right. And then"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":404.099,"endTime":408.839,"body":"essential thing to grasp about"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":404.099,"endTime":408.839,"body":"the climate problem is best"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":408.839,"endTime":412.859,"body":"illustrated with the bathtub"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":408.839,"endTime":412.859,"body":"analogy. So if we think of a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":412.859,"endTime":417.269,"body":"bathtub, we've got to speak it"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":412.859,"endTime":417.269,"body":"with water flowing in, in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":417.269,"endTime":421.949,"body":"case of the bathtub. In the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":417.269,"endTime":421.949,"body":"climate arena, that speak it is"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":421.949,"endTime":426.329,"body":"our ongoing flow of emissions"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":421.949,"endTime":426.329,"body":"into the atmosphere. Right to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":426.329,"endTime":430.499,"body":"our bathtub, we've also got a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":426.329,"endTime":430.499,"body":"tub that's holding water, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":430.499,"endTime":436.439,"body":"we've got a drain by which water"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":430.499,"endTime":436.439,"body":"leaves the system. What informs"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":436.439,"endTime":441.059,"body":"the climate, what makes the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":436.439,"endTime":441.059,"body":"climate whatever it is, is not"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":441.059,"endTime":445.499,"body":"the flow of water coming out of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":441.059,"endTime":445.499,"body":"the spigot, it's the level of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":445.499,"endTime":451.109,"body":"water in the bathtub. Sure. And"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":445.499,"endTime":451.109,"body":"so as we continue to run the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":451.109,"endTime":456.509,"body":"spigot, we fill fill, fill, fill"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":451.109,"endTime":456.509,"body":"the bathtub, and whenever and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":456.509,"endTime":461.489,"body":"PS, if the world does an"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":456.509,"endTime":461.489,"body":"extraordinary thing, and cuts"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":461.489,"endTime":466.139,"body":"the flow out of the spigot in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":461.489,"endTime":466.139,"body":"half, the water level of the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":466.139,"endTime":469.379,"body":"bathtub is still rising, that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":466.139,"endTime":469.379,"body":"didn't get us where we need to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":469.379,"endTime":473.729,"body":"go, we need to get the emissions"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":469.379,"endTime":473.729,"body":"all the way to zero. It's not"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":473.729,"endTime":476.999,"body":"like air pollution, where"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":473.729,"endTime":476.999,"body":"there's some acceptable level we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":476.999,"endTime":480.659,"body":"should probably live with. In"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":476.999,"endTime":480.659,"body":"the case of climate, we need to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":480.659,"endTime":484.799,"body":"get emissions all the way to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":480.659,"endTime":484.799,"body":"zero. And only then does the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":484.799,"endTime":491.069,"body":"water in the bathtub stop"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":484.799,"endTime":491.069,"body":"rising. But the real problem"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":491.069,"endTime":495.419,"body":"here is that the drain in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":491.069,"endTime":495.419,"body":"climate bathtub is essentially"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":495.419,"endTime":499.799,"body":"clogged. There is a natural"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":495.419,"endTime":499.799,"body":"process by which Mother Nature"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":499.799,"endTime":504.659,"body":"removes carbon from the climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":499.799,"endTime":504.659,"body":"system. But that process takes"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":504.659,"endTime":509.849,"body":"centuries. On a human timescale,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":504.659,"endTime":509.849,"body":"it's essentially the drain is"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":509.849,"endTime":515.849,"body":"clogged. So at whatever water"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":509.849,"endTime":515.849,"body":"level, the bathtub is when we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":515.849,"endTime":520.199,"body":"finally turn the spigot off,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":515.849,"endTime":520.199,"body":"that's the water level or the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":520.319,"endTime":524.189,"body":"the temperature level at which"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":520.319,"endTime":524.189,"body":"the world will have to live for"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":524.189,"endTime":530.309,"body":"centuries. And if it's too hot,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":524.189,"endTime":530.309,"body":"if it took us too long, to turn"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":530.309,"endTime":533.939,"body":"the spigot off, and the water"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":530.309,"endTime":533.939,"body":"level is too high, ie the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":533.939,"endTime":539.399,"body":"climate is too hot, then the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":533.939,"endTime":539.399,"body":"generations that live after net"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":539.399,"endTime":544.679,"body":"zero will have an enormous"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":539.399,"endTime":544.679,"body":"problem, which is how to survive"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":544.679,"endTime":548.909,"body":"and thrive in a world which by"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":544.679,"endTime":548.909,"body":"then we'll have perhaps 10"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":548.909,"endTime":552.089,"body":"billion people in it as a post"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":548.909,"endTime":552.089,"body":"to the seven and a half billion"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":552.089,"endTime":555.539,"body":"we've got today. And how are all"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":552.089,"endTime":555.539,"body":"those people going to thrive on"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":555.539,"endTime":563.039,"body":"a two planet. That's the the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":555.539,"endTime":563.039,"body":"context in which I'm afraid that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":563.039,"endTime":568.259,"body":"we are not likely to hit Net"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":563.039,"endTime":568.259,"body":"Zero quickly enough to preserve"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":568.259,"endTime":569.819,"body":"the climate we want to live in."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":570.719,"endTime":574.589,"body":"Okay, but there's a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":570.719,"endTime":574.589,"body":"difference between not hitting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":574.859,"endTime":580.199,"body":"net zero in time and hitting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":574.859,"endTime":580.199,"body":"that zero and it's still not"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":580.199,"endTime":584.759,"body":"being enough. So those are those"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":580.199,"endTime":584.759,"body":"are two different kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":584.759,"endTime":589.799,"body":"concepts. Both of which I think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":584.759,"endTime":589.799,"body":"you've said are your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":589.799,"endTime":594.569,"body":"propositions. So A, you don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":589.799,"endTime":594.569,"body":"think we'll get to net zero in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":594.569,"endTime":599.579,"body":"time and B, even if we do get to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":594.569,"endTime":599.579,"body":"net zero. It's not enough"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":599.579,"endTime":603.479,"body":"anyway. We need to do more is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":599.579,"endTime":603.479,"body":"that is that essentially a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":603.479,"endTime":604.439,"body":"summary of what you're saying?"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":632.57,"endTime":635.45,"body":"Essentially,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":632.57,"endTime":635.45,"body":"although I would have the nuance"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":635.45,"endTime":639.44,"body":"a little bit differently, if if"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":635.45,"endTime":639.44,"body":"despite everything I'm saying,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":639.74,"endTime":645.5300000000001,"body":"we do get to net zero by 2050,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":639.74,"endTime":645.5300000000001,"body":"no problem, we're good. We'll"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":645.5300000000001,"endTime":651.0200000000001,"body":"have little climate annoyances,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":645.5300000000001,"endTime":651.0200000000001,"body":"stronger hurricanes, more heat"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":651.0200000000001,"endTime":655.2800000000001,"body":"waves, but the climate will be"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":651.0200000000001,"endTime":655.2800000000001,"body":"close enough to the climate,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":655.3100000000001,"endTime":659.3900000000001,"body":"then would be close enough to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":655.3100000000001,"endTime":659.3900000000001,"body":"the climate now that the world"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":659.3900000000001,"endTime":664.58,"body":"would be fine. And we would, the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":659.3900000000001,"endTime":664.58,"body":"climate problem would be"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":664.58,"endTime":669.74,"body":"resolved. The problem is if we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":664.58,"endTime":669.74,"body":"don't get to climate to net zero"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":669.74,"endTime":674.9300000000001,"body":"by 2050, and we fill the bathtub"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":669.74,"endTime":674.9300000000001,"body":"much higher than is now hoped"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":674.9300000000001,"endTime":679.85,"body":"for. To put it in more concrete"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":674.9300000000001,"endTime":679.85,"body":"temperature terms. If by the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":679.85,"endTime":684.98,"body":"time we get to net zero, we're"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":679.85,"endTime":684.98,"body":"three degrees above the baseline"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":684.98,"endTime":688.2800000000001,"body":"climate rather than one and a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":684.98,"endTime":688.2800000000001,"body":"half degrees as people hope"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":688.2800000000001,"endTime":693.32,"body":"today, three degrees will be an"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":688.2800000000001,"endTime":693.32,"body":"unacceptable world to lots and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":693.32,"endTime":698.48,"body":"lots of people. Quick net zero,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":693.32,"endTime":698.48,"body":"no problem slow net zero, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":698.48,"endTime":703.2800000000001,"body":"therefore higher temperature"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":698.48,"endTime":703.2800000000001,"body":"when we get zero, big problem."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":703.5200000000001,"endTime":707.0,"body":"And in the in the world in which"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":703.5200000000001,"endTime":707.0,"body":"we have that ladder, big"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":707.0,"endTime":711.2600000000001,"body":"problem, that's when net zero"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":707.0,"endTime":711.2600000000001,"body":"will prove not to have been a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":711.2600000000001,"endTime":713.9300000000001,"body":"sufficient solution to the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":711.2600000000001,"endTime":713.9300000000001,"body":"climate problem."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":714.349,"endTime":717.979,"body":"Okay. So you think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":714.349,"endTime":717.979,"body":"our chances of getting to net"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":717.979,"endTime":719.479,"body":"zero by 2050, or slim,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":719.749,"endTime":723.859,"body":"almost non"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":719.749,"endTime":723.859,"body":"existent, a miracle would have"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":723.859,"endTime":729.859,"body":"to happen. But but but I don't"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":723.859,"endTime":729.859,"body":"mean a religious miracle. If if"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":729.889,"endTime":734.5390000000001,"body":"nuclear fusion, which we had"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":729.889,"endTime":734.5390000000001,"body":"some good news on in Europe just"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":734.599,"endTime":740.269,"body":"a couple of weeks ago, turns out"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":734.599,"endTime":740.269,"body":"to obtain we containment, we can"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":740.9290000000001,"endTime":746.8090000000001,"body":"control it, that would solve so,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":740.9290000000001,"endTime":746.8090000000001,"body":"so much that would nearly do it"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":746.869,"endTime":751.1590000000001,"body":"on its own. So miracles such as"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":746.869,"endTime":751.1590000000001,"body":"that are possible, right. But in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":751.1590000000001,"endTime":756.5590000000001,"body":"the absence of a stunning"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":751.1590000000001,"endTime":756.5590000000001,"body":"miracle, technologically, I"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":756.5590000000001,"endTime":760.5490000000001,"body":"think our chances of getting the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":756.5590000000001,"endTime":760.5490000000001,"body":"whole world getting not Europe"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":760.5490000000001,"endTime":765.019,"body":"getting not France getting not"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":760.5490000000001,"endTime":765.019,"body":"Yale University getting to net"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":765.019,"endTime":769.3090000000001,"body":"zero, but the whole world"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":765.019,"endTime":769.3090000000001,"body":"getting to net zero by 2050. I"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":769.3090000000001,"endTime":773.869,"body":"think the chances of that are"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":769.3090000000001,"endTime":773.869,"body":"are vanishingly small. Among the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":773.869,"endTime":777.349,"body":"resigned, China has"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":773.869,"endTime":777.349,"body":"already said that their goal for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":777.379,"endTime":781.249,"body":"net zero was 2060. So right"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":777.379,"endTime":781.249,"body":"there, we're not going to hit"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":781.4590000000001,"endTime":782.6890000000001,"body":"net zero by 2050."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":783.6800000000001,"endTime":786.83,"body":"Right there,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":783.6800000000001,"endTime":786.83,"body":"and lots of other countries"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":786.86,"endTime":791.9300000000001,"body":"don't have a net zero goal in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":786.86,"endTime":791.9300000000001,"body":"the first place. We're not in a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":791.9300000000001,"endTime":796.22,"body":"world where everybody is pulling"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":791.9300000000001,"endTime":796.22,"body":"in the same direction. In fact,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":796.22,"endTime":800.0600000000001,"body":"we're in a world where lots of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":796.22,"endTime":800.0600000000001,"body":"forces are still pulling in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":800.0600000000001,"endTime":805.1600000000001,"body":"opposite direction. And one way"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":800.0600000000001,"endTime":805.1600000000001,"body":"in which that's true, is simply"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":805.1600000000001,"endTime":809.2700000000001,"body":"population. Again, if population"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":805.1600000000001,"endTime":809.2700000000001,"body":"goes from seven and a half"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":809.2700000000001,"endTime":814.25,"body":"billion to 10, or 11 billion by"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":809.2700000000001,"endTime":814.25,"body":"the end of this century, that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":814.25,"endTime":818.96,"body":"will mean a quarter to a third"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":814.25,"endTime":818.96,"body":"more emissions, all other things"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":818.96,"endTime":825.6800000000001,"body":"being equal, as well, the global"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":818.96,"endTime":825.6800000000001,"body":"south I'll call it wants to join"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":825.6800000000001,"endTime":830.9300000000001,"body":"the global north, in living the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":825.6800000000001,"endTime":830.9300000000001,"body":"energy rich lifestyle that we in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":830.9300000000001,"endTime":835.6400000000001,"body":"the Global North enjoy. So those"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":830.9300000000001,"endTime":835.6400000000001,"body":"people aren't seeking to use"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":835.6400000000001,"endTime":840.5300000000001,"body":"less energy, they seek to use"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":835.6400000000001,"endTime":840.5300000000001,"body":"more energy. So as population"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":840.5300000000001,"endTime":845.9300000000001,"body":"grows, and the global south gets"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":840.5300000000001,"endTime":845.9300000000001,"body":"richer, though, those those"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":845.9300000000001,"endTime":850.5500000000001,"body":"forces will lead to more"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":845.9300000000001,"endTime":850.5500000000001,"body":"emissions rather than less. So"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":850.5500000000001,"endTime":855.7700000000001,"body":"emissions, cutting emissions is"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":850.5500000000001,"endTime":855.7700000000001,"body":"really a tug of war between"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":855.86,"endTime":859.85,"body":"opposing forces. And right now,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":855.86,"endTime":859.85,"body":"the forces that increasing"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":859.85,"endTime":864.4100000000001,"body":"missions are still winning the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":859.85,"endTime":864.4100000000001,"body":"tug of war, which is why COVID"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":864.4100000000001,"endTime":867.71,"body":"aside, our emissions are still"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":864.4100000000001,"endTime":867.71,"body":"growing, they're not yet"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":867.71,"endTime":868.2800000000001,"body":"shrinking."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":868.849,"endTime":872.899,"body":"Yeah, yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":868.849,"endTime":872.899,"body":"we have a goal in Europe of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":872.899,"endTime":877.8190000000001,"body":"reducing our emissions 55% by"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":872.899,"endTime":877.8190000000001,"body":"2030. And that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":877.8190000000001,"endTime":881.1790000000001,"body":"actually a legally legally"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":877.8190000000001,"endTime":881.1790000000001,"body":"binding mandate on all 27"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":881.1790000000001,"endTime":887.089,"body":"nations of the EU. And that's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":881.1790000000001,"endTime":887.089,"body":"going to be massively difficult,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":887.2090000000001,"endTime":892.519,"body":"because, I mean, just in terms"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":887.2090000000001,"endTime":892.519,"body":"of context, we managed to reduce"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":892.519,"endTime":898.0690000000001,"body":"our emissions 7% in 2020, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":892.519,"endTime":898.0690000000001,"body":"they went back up 5% in 21. So"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":898.339,"endTime":903.349,"body":"between 21 and 20, we've had a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":898.339,"endTime":903.349,"body":"net reduction of 2%. Now it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":903.349,"endTime":908.0290000000001,"body":"against our 9090 baseline of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":903.349,"endTime":908.0290000000001,"body":"which we've already reduced 24%"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":908.0290000000001,"endTime":913.3090000000001,"body":"but that still leaves 31% to get"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":908.0290000000001,"endTime":913.3090000000001,"body":"out of the system in the next"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":913.639,"endTime":921.8290000000001,"body":"seven years and 10 months or so."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":913.639,"endTime":921.8290000000001,"body":"Which is you know, Words fail me"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":921.859,"endTime":923.9290000000001,"body":"in terms of how challenging"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":921.859,"endTime":923.9290000000001,"body":"that's going to be and I don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":923.9290000000001,"endTime":927.1690000000001,"body":"think most people have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":923.9290000000001,"endTime":927.1690000000001,"body":"comprehended the level of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":927.1690000000001,"endTime":929.389,"body":"success. make change that this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":927.1690000000001,"endTime":929.389,"body":"will require."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":930.6500000000001,"endTime":933.4100000000001,"body":"I agree with"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":930.6500000000001,"endTime":933.4100000000001,"body":"all of that. And of course, the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":933.4100000000001,"endTime":941.0600000000001,"body":"7% reduction in 2020 was due to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":933.4100000000001,"endTime":941.0600000000001,"body":"COVID. So it was really the fact"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":941.0600000000001,"endTime":944.2700000000001,"body":"that that a pandemic wreck to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":941.0600000000001,"endTime":944.2700000000001,"body":"the economy that caused"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":944.2700000000001,"endTime":948.2900000000001,"body":"emissions to decline is not"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":944.2700000000001,"endTime":948.2900000000001,"body":"virtuous action triggers smart"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":948.32,"endTime":954.8000000000001,"body":"policy on the part of countries."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":948.32,"endTime":954.8000000000001,"body":"I'm, firstly, thank you, Europe,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":955.0400000000001,"endTime":959.72,"body":"for being the moral leader of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":955.0400000000001,"endTime":959.72,"body":"the world on this issue. The"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":959.72,"endTime":965.4200000000001,"body":"Europeans are, have set"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":959.72,"endTime":965.4200000000001,"body":"extraordinarily high ambition"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":965.4200000000001,"endTime":970.1300000000001,"body":"ambitions, and the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":965.4200000000001,"endTime":970.1300000000001,"body":"world should take note of that,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":970.1300000000001,"endTime":975.95,"body":"and thank them for that."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":970.1300000000001,"endTime":975.95,"body":"Unfortunately, I would bet that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":975.95,"endTime":982.8800000000001,"body":"we will not that Europe will not"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":975.95,"endTime":982.8800000000001,"body":"meet that goal. Afraid that one"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":982.8800000000001,"endTime":987.4100000000001,"body":"thing that people have not yet"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":982.8800000000001,"endTime":987.4100000000001,"body":"internalized is that solving the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":987.4100000000001,"endTime":992.48,"body":"climate problem quickly, will"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":987.4100000000001,"endTime":992.48,"body":"require that we all be a bit"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":992.5100000000001,"endTime":1000.1300000000001,"body":"poorer, and no one is voting to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":992.5100000000001,"endTime":1000.1300000000001,"body":"be poorer. So the Europeans have"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1000.1300000000001,"endTime":1004.57,"body":"voted in this climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1000.1300000000001,"endTime":1004.57,"body":"legislation, without really"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1004.57,"endTime":1008.3800000000001,"body":"understanding or leveling with"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1004.57,"endTime":1008.3800000000001,"body":"each other, that this will"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1008.3800000000001,"endTime":1013.6300000000001,"body":"reduce economic growth and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1008.3800000000001,"endTime":1013.6300000000001,"body":"reduce wealth. And as soon as"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1013.6300000000001,"endTime":1017.44,"body":"voters realize that's what"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1013.6300000000001,"endTime":1017.44,"body":"they've signed up for, I'm"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1017.44,"endTime":1023.0500000000001,"body":"afraid there will be a sort of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1017.44,"endTime":1023.0500000000001,"body":"brown populism that breaks out"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1023.35,"endTime":1025.99,"body":"where people suddenly say, wait"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1023.35,"endTime":1025.99,"body":"a minute, we don't want to go"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1025.99,"endTime":1030.64,"body":"along with higher energy prices."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1025.99,"endTime":1030.64,"body":"Nobody ever told us that was the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1030.67,"endTime":1036.43,"body":"consequence of these goals. And"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1030.67,"endTime":1036.43,"body":"so I'm not even sure that lead"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1036.43,"endTime":1040.45,"body":"in this decade, that law will"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1036.43,"endTime":1040.45,"body":"still be a law, I worry that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1040.69,"endTime":1043.6,"body":"when the people finally"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1040.69,"endTime":1043.6,"body":"understand what they've signed"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1043.6,"endTime":1047.2,"body":"up for, they may decide they"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1043.6,"endTime":1047.2,"body":"want less of that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1048.43,"endTime":1051.76,"body":"I would challenge"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1048.43,"endTime":1051.76,"body":"that, just because I don't think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1051.79,"endTime":1054.8200000000002,"body":"a shift to renewables"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1051.79,"endTime":1054.8200000000002,"body":"necessarily means higher energy"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1054.8200000000002,"endTime":1058.3300000000002,"body":"prices, I think the opposite is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1054.8200000000002,"endTime":1058.3300000000002,"body":"true. Because the cost of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1058.3300000000002,"endTime":1062.74,"body":"renewables keeps falling, it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1058.3300000000002,"endTime":1062.74,"body":"no cheaper to build net new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1062.74,"endTime":1066.94,"body":"renewables than it is to run"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1062.74,"endTime":1066.94,"body":"existing fossil fuel plants. So"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1066.94,"endTime":1069.46,"body":"I think, and in fact, we're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1066.94,"endTime":1069.46,"body":"seeing it with the price of gas"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1069.46,"endTime":1072.22,"body":"and Europe today, the price of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1069.46,"endTime":1072.22,"body":"gas has just gone up"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1072.22,"endTime":1075.31,"body":"ridiculously high, whereas the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1072.22,"endTime":1075.31,"body":"the cost of fossil fuels keeps"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1075.31,"endTime":1080.98,"body":"falling. So I think, yes, we do"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1075.31,"endTime":1080.98,"body":"need to invest significant"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1080.98,"endTime":1086.77,"body":"amounts of money to transition."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1080.98,"endTime":1086.77,"body":"But I do think as well, the the,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1087.88,"endTime":1092.89,"body":"the cost of that isn't a sunk"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1087.88,"endTime":1092.89,"body":"cost. Because, you know, once"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1092.89,"endTime":1097.45,"body":"you build a fossil fuel plant,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1092.89,"endTime":1097.45,"body":"you have to keep fueling it. So"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1097.45,"endTime":1100.15,"body":"that money that you keep having"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1097.45,"endTime":1100.15,"body":"to put into it, once you build a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1100.15,"endTime":1104.8,"body":"renewable plant, essentially,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1100.15,"endTime":1104.8,"body":"the costs go away, or at least"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1104.8,"endTime":1107.0800000000002,"body":"they stay static, that they're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1104.8,"endTime":1107.0800000000002,"body":"not variable, they don't keep"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1107.0800000000002,"endTime":1111.1000000000001,"body":"going up. The cost of running"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1107.0800000000002,"endTime":1111.1000000000001,"body":"are the costs of maintenance and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1111.1000000000001,"endTime":1114.16,"body":"staff, it's not the cost of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1111.1000000000001,"endTime":1114.16,"body":"fuelling on top of that again."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1114.73,"endTime":1118.0900000000001,"body":"So the costs of another say the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1114.73,"endTime":1118.0900000000001,"body":"cost of building it up in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1118.0900000000001,"endTime":1120.43,"body":"first place, they keep falling"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1118.0900000000001,"endTime":1120.43,"body":"as the cost of wind has fallen"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1120.46,"endTime":1124.6000000000001,"body":"50% in 10 years, and the cost of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1120.46,"endTime":1124.6000000000001,"body":"solar has dropped like 90% in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1124.6000000000001,"endTime":1127.8700000000001,"body":"the same time. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1124.6000000000001,"endTime":1127.8700000000001,"body":"cost of storage is similarly"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1127.8700000000001,"endTime":1131.53,"body":"falling. So, yeah, I would"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1127.8700000000001,"endTime":1131.53,"body":"challenge the fact that it will"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1131.53,"endTime":1134.0800000000002,"body":"raise energy bills and it'll"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1131.53,"endTime":1134.0800000000002,"body":"make people poorer."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1135.3400000000001,"endTime":1138.31,"body":"And I would"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1135.3400000000001,"endTime":1138.31,"body":"challenge back again, firstly,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1138.31,"endTime":1143.8,"body":"gas is a fossil fuels. So if gas"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1138.31,"endTime":1143.8,"body":"prices go up, that's that's"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1143.8,"endTime":1150.91,"body":"problematical. But if the market"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1143.8,"endTime":1150.91,"body":"were capable of funding this"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1150.91,"endTime":1156.7,"body":"transition on its own, we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1150.91,"endTime":1156.7,"body":"wouldn't need legislation. The"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1156.7,"endTime":1163.3600000000001,"body":"fact is that, in limited"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1156.7,"endTime":1163.3600000000001,"body":"instances, renewable fuels are"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1163.3600000000001,"endTime":1167.65,"body":"now cheaper than fossil fuels."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1163.3600000000001,"endTime":1167.65,"body":"But the reason the market keeps"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1168.0700000000002,"endTime":1172.0,"body":"importing and burning fossil"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1168.0700000000002,"endTime":1172.0,"body":"fuels is that in a variety of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1172.0,"endTime":1175.54,"body":"other instances, they are they"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1172.0,"endTime":1175.54,"body":"are the cheaper alternatives."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1176.1100000000001,"endTime":1182.17,"body":"And is well, it's not merely the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1176.1100000000001,"endTime":1182.17,"body":"cost of the fuel or the power"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1182.17,"endTime":1187.72,"body":"generation that comprises the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1182.17,"endTime":1187.72,"body":"full economic picture. There is"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1187.72,"endTime":1193.0,"body":"the distribution and storage"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1187.72,"endTime":1193.0,"body":"requirements. And renewable"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1193.0,"endTime":1197.65,"body":"fuels require far more"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1193.0,"endTime":1197.65,"body":"distribution, infrastructure and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1197.65,"endTime":1203.23,"body":"far more storage infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1197.65,"endTime":1203.23,"body":"than do fossil fuels. After all,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1203.3500000000001,"endTime":1207.46,"body":"the wind doesn't blow all the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1203.3500000000001,"endTime":1207.46,"body":"time and the sun reliably"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1207.46,"endTime":1212.98,"body":"doesn't shine for half the day."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1207.46,"endTime":1212.98,"body":"And so, transitioning to a fully"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1212.98,"endTime":1218.95,"body":"renewable, the initial"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1212.98,"endTime":1218.95,"body":"penetration of renewables is"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1218.95,"endTime":1223.45,"body":"inexpensive. Getting the last"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1218.95,"endTime":1223.45,"body":"bit of fossil fuels out of the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1223.45,"endTime":1231.3400000000001,"body":"system will prove very expensive"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1223.45,"endTime":1231.3400000000001,"body":"and And yet we can't wait around"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1231.46,"endTime":1235.6000000000001,"body":"for the tape for the technology"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1231.46,"endTime":1235.6000000000001,"body":"to make these things cheaper."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1235.6000000000001,"endTime":1241.42,"body":"The European law says we've got"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1235.6000000000001,"endTime":1241.42,"body":"to get to negative 55% of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1241.48,"endTime":1247.5700000000002,"body":"emissions by 2030, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1241.48,"endTime":1247.5700000000002,"body":"inexpensive or not. So So I"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1247.5700000000002,"endTime":1251.2,"body":"suppose I can hope that you're"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1247.5700000000002,"endTime":1251.2,"body":"right, that it'll prove to be"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1251.2,"endTime":1254.41,"body":"super cheap. But that ain't the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1251.2,"endTime":1254.41,"body":"way I would bet."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1254.92,"endTime":1260.38,"body":"Alright. Okay. And"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1254.92,"endTime":1260.38,"body":"so let's say we get to net zero"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1260.38,"endTime":1266.26,"body":"by 2060, or 2070, or something"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1260.38,"endTime":1266.26,"body":"like that. What kind of climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1266.26,"endTime":1268.69,"body":"issues are we likely to see,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1266.26,"endTime":1268.69,"body":"because we've blown through our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1268.69,"endTime":1269.6200000000001,"body":"2050 goal?"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1270.19,"endTime":1274.45,"body":"Well, firstly,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1270.19,"endTime":1274.45,"body":"my prayer is that we get to net"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1274.45,"endTime":1279.73,"body":"zero by 2100. But I'm not"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1274.45,"endTime":1279.73,"body":"certain the fat ether, right? I"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1279.73,"endTime":1282.43,"body":"don't think we're going to miss"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1279.73,"endTime":1282.43,"body":"by a little we're likely to miss"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1282.43,"endTime":1290.3200000000002,"body":"by a lot. And the the first"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1282.43,"endTime":1290.3200000000002,"body":"chapter of the AR six report"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1290.3200000000002,"endTime":1296.53,"body":"that the IPCC is now in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1290.3200000000002,"endTime":1296.53,"body":"process of issuing the first"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1296.53,"endTime":1299.71,"body":"chapter, or the working group"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1296.53,"endTime":1299.71,"body":"one, issued in September"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1299.98,"endTime":1304.54,"body":"illustrated five climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1299.98,"endTime":1304.54,"body":"outcomes, the middle of the road"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1304.54,"endTime":1311.77,"body":"climate outcome was 2.7 degrees"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1304.54,"endTime":1311.77,"body":"higher by 2090. That was their"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1311.77,"endTime":1314.26,"body":"middle of the road, they had two"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1311.77,"endTime":1314.26,"body":"that were lower, and two that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1314.26,"endTime":1319.27,"body":"were higher. But I think that's"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1314.26,"endTime":1319.27,"body":"the kind of range of climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1319.27,"endTime":1322.81,"body":"outcome that's much more"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1319.27,"endTime":1322.81,"body":"realistic. Your question was,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1322.81,"endTime":1328.21,"body":"what the consequences of such a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1322.81,"endTime":1328.21,"body":"temperature anomaly would be."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1329.02,"endTime":1332.41,"body":"Firstly, it's all the Horsemen"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1329.02,"endTime":1332.41,"body":"of the climate pocalypse that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1332.41,"endTime":1335.95,"body":"we've already heard about. So"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1332.41,"endTime":1335.95,"body":"it's droughts and floods and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1335.95,"endTime":1341.5,"body":"weird weather and stronger"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1335.95,"endTime":1341.5,"body":"storms, and wildfires and so on."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1342.22,"endTime":1349.75,"body":"But more problematical than"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1342.22,"endTime":1349.75,"body":"those will be. High wet bulb"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1349.75,"endTime":1355.8400000000001,"body":"temperature heat spikes were the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1349.75,"endTime":1355.8400000000001,"body":"combination of high temperature"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1355.8400000000001,"endTime":1360.52,"body":"and high humidity gets to an"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1355.8400000000001,"endTime":1360.52,"body":"environment that mammals can't"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1360.52,"endTime":1365.5900000000001,"body":"survive in. And if you get too"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1360.52,"endTime":1365.5900000000001,"body":"many of those heat spikes in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1365.5900000000001,"endTime":1370.06,"body":"areas that are impoverished you"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1365.5900000000001,"endTime":1370.06,"body":"in Seville can go inside and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1370.06,"endTime":1375.73,"body":"flip on the air conditioner. A"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1370.06,"endTime":1375.73,"body":"pastoralists in nice air cannot."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1376.03,"endTime":1380.95,"body":"And so some of his family and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1376.03,"endTime":1380.95,"body":"half of his goats may die in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1380.95,"endTime":1386.41,"body":"that wet bulb spike. And if you"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1380.95,"endTime":1386.41,"body":"have large and moreover,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1386.68,"endTime":1390.55,"body":"droughts may become strong"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1386.68,"endTime":1390.55,"body":"enough and persistent enough"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1390.76,"endTime":1395.38,"body":"that lots of places that support"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1390.76,"endTime":1395.38,"body":"agriculture today can no longer"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1395.38,"endTime":1400.75,"body":"support agriculture in that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1395.38,"endTime":1400.75,"body":"warmer climate. So we have the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1400.75,"endTime":1405.76,"body":"possibility that lots of the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1400.75,"endTime":1405.76,"body":"world that is now habitable"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1405.76,"endTime":1408.76,"body":"becomes essentially"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1405.76,"endTime":1408.76,"body":"uninhabitable or at least"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1408.88,"endTime":1416.3500000000001,"body":"becomes places where livestock"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1408.88,"endTime":1416.3500000000001,"body":"and crops can't thrive. And that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1416.38,"endTime":1421.8400000000001,"body":"then brings on the prospect of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1416.38,"endTime":1421.8400000000001,"body":"massive, unwanted deaths on the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1421.8400000000001,"endTime":1427.1200000000001,"body":"one hand, and massive climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1421.8400000000001,"endTime":1427.1200000000001,"body":"migration on the other. Once"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1427.1200000000001,"endTime":1430.63,"body":"again, in a world now with a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1427.1200000000001,"endTime":1430.63,"body":"third more people than we have"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1430.63,"endTime":1438.19,"body":"today. There can be big problems"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1430.63,"endTime":1438.19,"body":"that derive from this. And if"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1438.19,"endTime":1442.5700000000002,"body":"you have a country, again, that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1438.19,"endTime":1442.5700000000002,"body":"the countries of the cell and in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1442.5700000000002,"endTime":1447.31,"body":"Africa, if a lot of those"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1442.5700000000002,"endTime":1447.31,"body":"countries can no longer support"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1447.31,"endTime":1450.94,"body":"their populations. Not only do"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1447.31,"endTime":1450.94,"body":"those people want to come to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1450.94,"endTime":1455.02,"body":"Europe, but those states are at"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1450.94,"endTime":1455.02,"body":"risk of becoming failed states."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1455.0800000000002,"endTime":1456.79,"body":"You know, bad stuff could"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1455.0800000000002,"endTime":1456.79,"body":"happen."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1456.8200000000002,"endTime":1462.31,"body":"Yeah, yeah. So what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1456.8200000000002,"endTime":1462.31,"body":"kind of climate interventions"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1462.3400000000001,"endTime":1466.48,"body":"should we be thinking about? And"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1462.3400000000001,"endTime":1466.48,"body":"when should we start deploying"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1466.48,"endTime":1466.75,"body":"them?"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1469.299,"endTime":1472.989,"body":"Taking them in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1469.299,"endTime":1472.989,"body":"that order, in the climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1472.989,"endTime":1476.679,"body":"interventions toolbox or what in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1472.989,"endTime":1476.679,"body":"the title of my book, I've"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1476.709,"endTime":1483.669,"body":"phrased Andorra's toolbox, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1476.709,"endTime":1483.669,"body":"PS, the use of the Pandora myth"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1483.669,"endTime":1487.809,"body":"and metaphor is intended to warn"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1483.669,"endTime":1487.809,"body":"in the very first word that this"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1487.809,"endTime":1490.959,"body":"isn't a bowl of cherries there,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1487.809,"endTime":1490.959,"body":"there. There's risk in all of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1490.959,"endTime":1495.1290000000001,"body":"this. But the tools in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1490.959,"endTime":1495.1290000000001,"body":"toolbox broadly, can be"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1495.1290000000001,"endTime":1500.919,"body":"segregated into two segments."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1495.1290000000001,"endTime":1500.919,"body":"One of them involves capturing"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1500.919,"endTime":1505.479,"body":"carbon from the atmosphere and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1500.919,"endTime":1505.479,"body":"therefore the climate system and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1505.479,"endTime":1509.6490000000001,"body":"sequestering it back in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1505.479,"endTime":1509.6490000000001,"body":"Earth's crust, carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1509.6490000000001,"endTime":1515.199,"body":"removal and sequestration. And"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1509.6490000000001,"endTime":1515.199,"body":"the other involves managing"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1515.199,"endTime":1519.339,"body":"sunlight reducing a little bit"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1515.199,"endTime":1519.339,"body":"the amount of sunlight that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1519.339,"endTime":1523.209,"body":"stays in the climate system, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1519.339,"endTime":1523.209,"body":"thereby cooling the earth in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1523.209,"endTime":1528.219,"body":"that way. And so those two"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1523.209,"endTime":1528.219,"body":"things are very Different"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1528.219,"endTime":1534.549,"body":"things. Carbon dioxide removal"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1528.219,"endTime":1534.549,"body":"is penicillin, it would solve"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1534.549,"endTime":1541.239,"body":"the climate problem. Back to my"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1534.549,"endTime":1541.239,"body":"bathtub analogy. Carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1541.239,"endTime":1546.3690000000001,"body":"removal widens, the drain gets"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1541.239,"endTime":1546.3690000000001,"body":"the drain unclogged, and gets"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1546.3690000000001,"endTime":1553.299,"body":"the climate system to be begin"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1546.3690000000001,"endTime":1553.299,"body":"to vent or eliminate carbon that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1553.299,"endTime":1557.439,"body":"we have put there. So that would"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1553.299,"endTime":1557.439,"body":"be a great thing. The end, we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1557.439,"endTime":1562.929,"body":"cannot. There's no acceptable"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1557.439,"endTime":1562.929,"body":"climate future without loads of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1562.929,"endTime":1568.209,"body":"carbon dioxide removal. Even"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1562.929,"endTime":1568.209,"body":"getting to net zero quickly will"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1568.209,"endTime":1572.6190000000001,"body":"require loads of carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1568.209,"endTime":1572.6190000000001,"body":"removal, because there are all"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1572.6190000000001,"endTime":1578.679,"body":"sorts of industrial activities,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1572.6190000000001,"endTime":1578.679,"body":"including my former field of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1578.679,"endTime":1584.469,"body":"aviation, that are just very"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1578.679,"endTime":1584.469,"body":"difficult to decarbonize. So the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1584.469,"endTime":1591.279,"body":"path to net zero whenever we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1584.469,"endTime":1591.279,"body":"achieve it will be comprised of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1591.279,"endTime":1597.999,"body":"say, 75% emissions reduction,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1591.279,"endTime":1597.999,"body":"and 25% negative emissions to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1597.999,"endTime":1602.049,"body":"offset the ongoing positive"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1597.999,"endTime":1602.049,"body":"emissions that we can't get rid"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1602.049,"endTime":1606.459,"body":"of by that time. So there's no"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1602.049,"endTime":1606.459,"body":"acceptable climate future that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1606.459,"endTime":1611.589,"body":"doesn't have loads of carbon"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1606.459,"endTime":1611.589,"body":"dioxide removal. But PS this"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1611.589,"endTime":1618.309,"body":"eight trees trees are a mostly"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1611.589,"endTime":1618.309,"body":"climate repair fix fiction."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1618.3690000000001,"endTime":1621.429,"body":"They're mostly greenwashing,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1618.3690000000001,"endTime":1621.429,"body":"what we're talking about here"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1621.429,"endTime":1625.3890000000001,"body":"are huge industrial enterprises"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1621.429,"endTime":1625.3890000000001,"body":"that are going to suck carbon"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1625.3890000000001,"endTime":1629.169,"body":"out of the air and pump it back"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1625.3890000000001,"endTime":1629.169,"body":"in underground, where we got it"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1629.169,"endTime":1633.249,"body":"from when we drilled for oil in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1629.169,"endTime":1633.249,"body":"the first place. So all of that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1633.249,"endTime":1638.1090000000002,"body":"is a must have, but it'll be"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1633.249,"endTime":1638.1090000000002,"body":"super expensive. So we're"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1638.1090000000002,"endTime":1642.339,"body":"exporting to the future and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1638.1090000000002,"endTime":1642.339,"body":"obligation to pay for a big"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1642.339,"endTime":1646.779,"body":"waste remediation operation that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1642.339,"endTime":1646.779,"body":"the future will be unhappy"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1646.779,"endTime":1649.839,"body":"having to pay for, but likely"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1646.779,"endTime":1649.839,"body":"will elect to pay for"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1649.839,"endTime":1655.8990000000001,"body":"nonetheless, we should get going"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1649.839,"endTime":1655.8990000000001,"body":"on carbon capture immediately."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1656.3490000000002,"endTime":1662.199,"body":"And the bit that we should"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1656.3490000000002,"endTime":1662.199,"body":"commence immediately is firstly"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1662.199,"endTime":1668.019,"body":"harvesting co2 from smokestacks."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1662.199,"endTime":1668.019,"body":"Before we start sucking it out"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1668.019,"endTime":1671.589,"body":"of direct air, we should be"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1668.019,"endTime":1671.589,"body":"sucking it out of smokestacks"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1671.6190000000001,"endTime":1675.489,"body":"before it reaches the direct"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1671.6190000000001,"endTime":1675.489,"body":"air. And we should be scaling"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1675.489,"endTime":1681.339,"body":"that technology as quickly as we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1675.489,"endTime":1681.339,"body":"possibly can. The other side of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1681.339,"endTime":1685.929,"body":"the our climate interventions"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1681.339,"endTime":1685.929,"body":"toolbox is solar radiation"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1685.929,"endTime":1690.519,"body":"management, having a little less"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1685.929,"endTime":1690.519,"body":"sunlight stay in the climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1690.519,"endTime":1694.569,"body":"system, by reflecting it"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1690.519,"endTime":1694.569,"body":"somewhere by reflecting it on"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1694.569,"endTime":1700.419,"body":"the ground by reflecting it in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1694.569,"endTime":1700.419,"body":"the air via clouds, or"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1700.419,"endTime":1706.329,"body":"reflecting it yet higher in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1700.419,"endTime":1706.329,"body":"atmosphere via aerosols. But the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1706.3590000000002,"endTime":1710.829,"body":"solar radiation management would"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1706.3590000000002,"endTime":1710.829,"body":"slightly cool the Earth relative"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1710.829,"endTime":1715.929,"body":"to the non engineered state. And"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1710.829,"endTime":1715.929,"body":"if we can't get our, if we don't"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1715.929,"endTime":1721.8990000000001,"body":"get to net zero as quickly as we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1715.929,"endTime":1721.8990000000001,"body":"need to. And we can't remediate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1721.8990000000001,"endTime":1726.009,"body":"the carbon in the atmosphere as"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1721.8990000000001,"endTime":1726.009,"body":"quickly as we need to we carbon"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1726.009,"endTime":1730.1490000000001,"body":"capture after all may take a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1726.009,"endTime":1730.1490000000001,"body":"century or two, then we may need"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1730.1490000000001,"endTime":1734.6490000000001,"body":"to cool the Earth artificially"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1730.1490000000001,"endTime":1734.6490000000001,"body":"by blocking a little bit of the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1734.6490000000001,"endTime":1735.6090000000002,"body":"incoming sunlight."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1736.3300000000002,"endTime":1740.23,"body":"Okay, so I guess"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1736.3300000000002,"endTime":1740.23,"body":"two questions come out of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1740.23,"endTime":1749.41,"body":"the blocking solar light coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1740.23,"endTime":1749.41,"body":"in? A? How do we do that? If"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1749.41,"endTime":1753.91,"body":"that's at the scale of needed?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1749.41,"endTime":1753.91,"body":"And B, if we managed to do that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1754.03,"endTime":1757.72,"body":"What kind of impact will that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1754.03,"endTime":1757.72,"body":"have on things like plant life"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1757.75,"endTime":1759.1000000000001,"body":"and our food production?"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1759.97,"endTime":1762.28,"body":"The first part"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1759.97,"endTime":1762.28,"body":"is easy. The second part is"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1762.28,"endTime":1771.01,"body":"hard. Yes, we can do that. The"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1762.28,"endTime":1771.01,"body":"most straightforward way to do"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1771.01,"endTime":1775.54,"body":"this, which is straightforward,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1771.01,"endTime":1775.54,"body":"but choosing amongst bad options"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1775.8400000000001,"endTime":1780.97,"body":"is referred to as Stratospheric"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1775.8400000000001,"endTime":1780.97,"body":"Aerosol injection, or solar"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1780.97,"endTime":1786.4,"body":"geoengineering. But by whatever"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1780.97,"endTime":1786.4,"body":"term, this is the idea of flying"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1786.4,"endTime":1790.21,"body":"airplanes up to the lower"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1786.4,"endTime":1790.21,"body":"stratosphere, and blowing out of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1790.21,"endTime":1793.96,"body":"the back of them, reflective"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1790.21,"endTime":1793.96,"body":"aerosol particles that would"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1793.96,"endTime":1799.21,"body":"stay aloft for 12 to 18 months"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1793.96,"endTime":1799.21,"body":"and reduce the incoming sunlight"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1799.21,"endTime":1805.06,"body":"by one or 2%. So it's not a huge"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1799.21,"endTime":1805.06,"body":"change. The Earth already"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1805.06,"endTime":1810.43,"body":"reflects out about 30% of the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1805.06,"endTime":1810.43,"body":"sunlight that comes in because"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1810.5800000000002,"endTime":1815.89,"body":"it bounces off of clouds or ice"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1810.5800000000002,"endTime":1815.89,"body":"or white roofs or whatever it"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1815.89,"endTime":1820.66,"body":"may be. And so we would seek to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1815.89,"endTime":1820.66,"body":"increase the albedo of the earth"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1820.66,"endTime":1826.81,"body":"the reflectiveness of it from"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1820.66,"endTime":1826.81,"body":"30% to 31, or 32%. That's the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1827.02,"endTime":1831.22,"body":"you know, the magnitude of what"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1827.02,"endTime":1831.22,"body":"we would be talking about, that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1831.22,"endTime":1835.72,"body":"likely would have a little"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1831.22,"endTime":1835.72,"body":"effect, but likely not much"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1835.75,"endTime":1842.98,"body":"effect on plant life and so on."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1835.75,"endTime":1842.98,"body":"It is a unlike carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1842.98,"endTime":1846.3400000000001,"body":"removal, it's a technique that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1842.98,"endTime":1846.3400000000001,"body":"could cool the Earth very"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1846.3400000000001,"endTime":1849.43,"body":"rapidly. We don't have to wait"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1846.3400000000001,"endTime":1849.43,"body":"centuries. In this case, we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1849.43,"endTime":1854.8600000000001,"body":"could do it in a couple of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1849.43,"endTime":1854.8600000000001,"body":"years, once we got started. It's"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1854.8600000000001,"endTime":1858.8500000000001,"body":"extraordinarily cheap relative"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1854.8600000000001,"endTime":1858.8500000000001,"body":"to everything else in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1858.8500000000001,"endTime":1863.98,"body":"climate, solution, toolbox, all"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1858.8500000000001,"endTime":1863.98,"body":"of all of the rest of which are"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1863.98,"endTime":1869.44,"body":"super expensive. However, there"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1863.98,"endTime":1869.44,"body":"are problems were in Pandora's"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1869.44,"endTime":1873.73,"body":"toolbox again. And the first"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1869.44,"endTime":1873.73,"body":"problem is we don't know what"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1873.73,"endTime":1877.48,"body":"other stuff it might do that we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1873.73,"endTime":1877.48,"body":"didn't intend that it will do."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1877.8700000000001,"endTime":1881.8600000000001,"body":"So it might increase the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1877.8700000000001,"endTime":1881.8600000000001,"body":"intensity of the Indian monsoon"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1881.89,"endTime":1887.56,"body":"too much, or it might decrease"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1881.89,"endTime":1887.56,"body":"it or it might affect ecosystems"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1887.56,"endTime":1892.0,"body":"in ways we don't intend or do"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1887.56,"endTime":1892.0,"body":"other things in the atmosphere"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1892.0,"endTime":1896.74,"body":"that we didn't predict. All of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1892.0,"endTime":1896.74,"body":"those physical impacts are"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1896.74,"endTime":1901.3300000000002,"body":"mostly on explored because the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1896.74,"endTime":1901.3300000000002,"body":"world has put very little"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1901.3300000000002,"endTime":1907.0,"body":"research into this. So it's it's"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1901.3300000000002,"endTime":1907.0,"body":"clear, logistically that we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1907.0,"endTime":1910.66,"body":"could do it, it's clear"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1907.0,"endTime":1910.66,"body":"financially that we could afford"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1910.66,"endTime":1915.8500000000001,"body":"it. But whether the cure will be"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1910.66,"endTime":1915.8500000000001,"body":"worse than the than the disease,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1915.91,"endTime":1920.92,"body":"that's entirely an open"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1915.91,"endTime":1920.92,"body":"question. So it may prove that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1920.95,"endTime":1925.66,"body":"this turns out to be a bad idea,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1920.95,"endTime":1925.66,"body":"that's quite possible. The other"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1926.95,"endTime":1933.22,"body":"major issue there is how to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1926.95,"endTime":1933.22,"body":"govern such a thing would just"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1933.28,"endTime":1938.17,"body":"it's hard to imagine how the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1933.28,"endTime":1938.17,"body":"whole world how we're all gonna"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1938.17,"endTime":1942.31,"body":"get together and hold hands and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1938.17,"endTime":1942.31,"body":"govern this global intervention,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1942.52,"endTime":1946.96,"body":"and figure out how much to turn"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1942.52,"endTime":1946.96,"body":"the temperature dial and how to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1946.96,"endTime":1952.0900000000001,"body":"modulate it regionally, and how"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1946.96,"endTime":1952.0900000000001,"body":"to compensate anyone whose"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1952.1200000000001,"endTime":1958.99,"body":"climate is worsened by it. The"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1952.1200000000001,"endTime":1958.99,"body":"governance structure for such a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1958.99,"endTime":1963.5800000000002,"body":"climate intervention, again, is"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1958.99,"endTime":1963.5800000000002,"body":"impossible to imagine. But so"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1963.5800000000002,"endTime":1968.3200000000002,"body":"too, by the way, the the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1963.5800000000002,"endTime":1968.3200000000002,"body":"governance of carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1968.3200000000002,"endTime":1972.8500000000001,"body":"removal and the governance of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1968.3200000000002,"endTime":1972.8500000000001,"body":"mitigation itself are also"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1972.8500000000001,"endTime":1976.9,"body":"proving beyond our grasp. But"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1972.8500000000001,"endTime":1976.9,"body":"the Paris Agreement is a noble"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1976.9,"endTime":1980.5,"body":"aspiration, but it ain't"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1976.9,"endTime":1980.5,"body":"working, yet the emissions are"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1980.5,"endTime":1985.03,"body":"still going up. So solar"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1980.5,"endTime":1985.03,"body":"radiation management is not"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1985.03,"endTime":1989.6200000000001,"body":"unique in the climate sphere in"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1985.03,"endTime":1989.6200000000001,"body":"being very presenting very"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1989.6200000000001,"endTime":1993.88,"body":"difficult governance problems,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1989.6200000000001,"endTime":1993.88,"body":"but we can't have it unless we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1993.88,"endTime":1996.22,"body":"find ways to solve those"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":1993.88,"endTime":1996.22,"body":"problems."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1996.7,"endTime":2004.53,"body":"Right. I often ask"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1996.7,"endTime":2004.53,"body":"people who come on this podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2005.3400000000001,"endTime":2009.93,"body":"as we start to wind down, are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2005.3400000000001,"endTime":2009.93,"body":"they optimistic, but I'm not"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2009.93,"endTime":2012.42,"body":"hearing a lot of optimism, your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2009.93,"endTime":2012.42,"body":"tone weak?"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2012.9,"endTime":2016.8,"body":"Well, sort of,"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2012.9,"endTime":2016.8,"body":"I'm a happy guy, I wake up every"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2016.8,"endTime":2021.75,"body":"morning sun comes up, life's"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2016.8,"endTime":2021.75,"body":"good. There are forward steps"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2021.75,"endTime":2027.8400000000001,"body":"that we can take on climate in a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2021.75,"endTime":2027.8400000000001,"body":"variety of regards. And as long"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2027.8400000000001,"endTime":2032.04,"body":"as there there are forward steps"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2027.8400000000001,"endTime":2032.04,"body":"to take them there is cause for"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2032.04,"endTime":2037.02,"body":"hope. But we are digging a"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2032.04,"endTime":2037.02,"body":"deeper hole for ourselves with"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2037.02,"endTime":2041.25,"body":"climate than the world realizes"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2037.02,"endTime":2041.25,"body":"by and large. What I'm saying is"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2041.25,"endTime":2046.02,"body":"not new to science. But it is"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2041.25,"endTime":2046.02,"body":"news to the general public that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2046.02,"endTime":2049.68,"body":"getting to net zero won't solve"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2046.02,"endTime":2049.68,"body":"the whole problem. But that's"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2049.71,"endTime":2053.94,"body":"just what the science tells us."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2049.71,"endTime":2053.94,"body":"It's where we're at. It has"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2054.06,"endTime":2060.54,"body":"proven to be a consequence of"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2054.06,"endTime":2060.54,"body":"the miraculous economic"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2060.54,"endTime":2064.32,"body":"development that much of the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2060.54,"endTime":2064.32,"body":"world has undertaken in the last"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2064.32,"endTime":2068.19,"body":"couple of years. It's proven"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2064.32,"endTime":2068.19,"body":"that that there is a climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2068.19,"endTime":2072.5099999999998,"body":"consequence to that economic"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2068.19,"endTime":2072.5099999999998,"body":"development. And one way or"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2072.5099999999998,"endTime":2074.79,"body":"another. We're going to have to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2072.5099999999998,"endTime":2074.79,"body":"contend with that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2075.33,"endTime":2079.53,"body":"Right. Okay. Wake,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2075.33,"endTime":2079.53,"body":"we're coming to the end of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2079.53,"endTime":2083.2200000000003,"body":"podcast. No, is there any"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2079.53,"endTime":2083.2200000000003,"body":"question I haven't asked that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2083.2200000000003,"endTime":2087.3,"body":"you wish I had or any aspect of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2083.2200000000003,"endTime":2087.3,"body":"this that we haven't touched on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2087.3,"endTime":2091.17,"body":"that you think it's important"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2087.3,"endTime":2091.17,"body":"for people to be aware of? Sure."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2091.2000000000003,"endTime":2096.27,"body":"I guess the one"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2091.2000000000003,"endTime":2096.27,"body":"thing that I would want to"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2096.27,"endTime":2101.55,"body":"ensure is that people don't"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2096.27,"endTime":2101.55,"body":"perceive that climate"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2101.55,"endTime":2106.86,"body":"interventions of either sort are"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2101.55,"endTime":2106.86,"body":"a substitution for mitigation."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2107.94,"endTime":2112.44,"body":"We still need to reduce and"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2107.94,"endTime":2112.44,"body":"ultimately eliminate our"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2112.62,"endTime":2117.27,"body":"emissions as quickly as"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2112.62,"endTime":2117.27,"body":"possible. There's only one door"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2117.3,"endTime":2121.8,"body":"and we got to go through that"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2117.3,"endTime":2121.8,"body":"door. And none of this changes"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2121.8,"endTime":2127.41,"body":"that. So it isn't a substitute"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2121.8,"endTime":2127.41,"body":"for emissions reductions. It's"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2127.44,"endTime":2134.64,"body":"Mostly these tools are mostly"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2127.44,"endTime":2134.64,"body":"ways with which the world might"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2134.64,"endTime":2138.84,"body":"be able to contend with the"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2134.64,"endTime":2138.84,"body":"consequences of what we're doing"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2138.84,"endTime":2142.14,"body":"to the climate. Now, after we"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2138.84,"endTime":2142.14,"body":"get to net zero,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2142.8,"endTime":2147.12,"body":"okay, okay, very"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2142.8,"endTime":2147.12,"body":"good. Work if people want to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2147.12,"endTime":2152.37,"body":"know more about yourself, wake"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2147.12,"endTime":2152.37,"body":"Smith's, or about the book you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2152.37,"endTime":2155.4,"body":"writing. Are any of the topics"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2152.37,"endTime":2155.4,"body":"we discussed in the podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2155.4,"endTime":2157.11,"body":"today? Where would you help me"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2155.4,"endTime":2157.11,"body":"direct them?"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2158.2400000000002,"endTime":2161.9,"body":"Wake Smith dot"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2158.2400000000002,"endTime":2161.9,"body":"earth is my website from which"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2161.9,"endTime":2168.26,"body":"you can both learn more about me"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2161.9,"endTime":2168.26,"body":"and order my book. I hope people"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2168.26,"endTime":2172.73,"body":"read my book. But I don't"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2168.26,"endTime":2172.73,"body":"particularly care if people buy"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2172.73,"endTime":2177.02,"body":"my book. So if you can steal my"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2172.73,"endTime":2177.02,"body":"book, the money, just read it."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2177.7400000000002,"endTime":2182.3,"body":"There's stuff in there you"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2177.7400000000002,"endTime":2182.3,"body":"really need to understand. And I"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2182.3,"endTime":2186.62,"body":"hope that this podcast will help"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2182.3,"endTime":2186.62,"body":"me reach a few people."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2187.35,"endTime":2189.87,"body":"fantastic week."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2187.35,"endTime":2189.87,"body":"That's been really interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2189.87,"endTime":2191.58,"body":"Thanks so much for coming on the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2189.87,"endTime":2191.58,"body":"podcast today."},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2192.4790000000003,"endTime":2193.739,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Prof Wake Smith","startTime":2192.4790000000003,"endTime":2193.739,"body":"having me down."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2194.7000000000003,"endTime":2197.04,"body":"Okay, we've come to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2194.7000000000003,"endTime":2197.04,"body":"the end of the show. Thanks,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2197.04,"endTime":2200.43,"body":"everyone for listening. If you'd"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2197.04,"endTime":2200.43,"body":"like to know more about climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2200.46,"endTime":2205.32,"body":"21 Feel free to drop me an email"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2200.46,"endTime":2205.32,"body":"to Tom raftery@sap.com or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2205.4700000000003,"endTime":2208.89,"body":"connect with me on LinkedIn or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2205.4700000000003,"endTime":2208.89,"body":"Twitter. If you'd like the show,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2208.89,"endTime":2211.05,"body":"please don't forget to subscribe"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2208.89,"endTime":2211.05,"body":"to it and your podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2211.05,"endTime":2213.96,"body":"application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2211.05,"endTime":2213.96,"body":"episodes as soon as they're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2213.96,"endTime":2217.8,"body":"published. Also, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2213.96,"endTime":2217.8,"body":"forget to rate and review the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2217.8,"endTime":2222.51,"body":"podcast it really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2217.8,"endTime":2222.51,"body":"people to find the show. Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2223.35,"endTime":2224.31,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}