{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":3.709,"endTime":5.299,"body":"These"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":3.709,"endTime":5.299,"body":"are immense investments."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":5.839,"endTime":11.124,"body":"Other think tanks, estimate total"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":5.839,"endTime":11.124,"body":"investments into environmental"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":11.124,"endTime":16.601,"body":"and energy, reduction of around 20"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":11.124,"endTime":16.601,"body":"trillion Euro, not from the government,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":16.601,"endTime":17.921,"body":"but from the entire industry."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":17.981,"endTime":19.561,"body":"So also from the corporates, and so on."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":19.561,"endTime":25.561,"body":"So these are immense figures, not only to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":19.561,"endTime":25.561,"body":"make, climate change looking nice on the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":25.561,"endTime":27.681,"body":"paper, but also to act up on that, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":28.324,"endTime":30.244,"body":"Good morning,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":28.324,"endTime":30.244,"body":"good afternoon, or good evening"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.244,"endTime":31.714,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.984,"endTime":36.094,"body":"This is the Climate 21 podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.984,"endTime":36.094,"body":"the number one podcast, showcasing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.094,"endTime":40.234,"body":"best practices in climate emissions"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.094,"endTime":40.234,"body":"reductions, and I'm your host global"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":40.234,"endTime":42.664,"body":"vice president for SAP, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":43.834,"endTime":48.004,"body":"Don't forget to subscribe to this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":43.834,"endTime":48.004,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.124,"endTime":50.464,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":50.935,"endTime":51.475,"body":"Hi everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.475,"endTime":53.365,"body":"Welcome to the climate 21 podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.455,"endTime":57.295,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery with SAP"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.455,"endTime":57.295,"body":"and with me on the show today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.295,"endTime":59.095,"body":"I have my special guest Daniel."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":59.395,"endTime":60.545,"body":"Daniel, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.015,"endTime":62.625,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":64.115,"endTime":66.115,"body":"Thank you very"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":64.115,"endTime":66.115,"body":"much, Tom, for having me today"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":66.115,"endTime":68.052,"body":"and, uh, make it a quick, one."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":68.052,"endTime":68.802,"body":"My name is Daniel Berger."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":69.012,"endTime":70.182,"body":"I'm partner of EAC."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":70.272,"endTime":73.092,"body":"EAC being a strategy"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":70.272,"endTime":73.092,"body":"management consulting company."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":73.092,"endTime":77.662,"body":"And I'm calling here, out of Shanghai"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":73.092,"endTime":77.662,"body":"today where I have been the last 20 years."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":78.222,"endTime":79.072,"body":"Okay, fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":79.587,"endTime":86.448,"body":"And Shanghai, we are talking today"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":79.587,"endTime":86.448,"body":"because the Southeast Asia region,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.448,"endTime":91.56,"body":"China in particular is hugely important"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.448,"endTime":91.56,"body":"when it comes to sustainability and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":91.56,"endTime":96.48,"body":"climate, it's one that gets a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":91.56,"endTime":96.48,"body":"attention in other media, but it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":96.48,"endTime":98.76,"body":"not one I've focused any episode on."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":99.24,"endTime":101.85,"body":"So I'm interested to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":99.24,"endTime":101.85,"body":"find out more about it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":101.85,"endTime":105.09,"body":"We hear lots about China, that it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":101.85,"endTime":105.09,"body":"a terrible polluter, that it hasn't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":105.09,"endTime":107.67,"body":"done a lot of pollution in the past"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":105.09,"endTime":107.67,"body":"and all kinds of things like that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":107.67,"endTime":112.92,"body":"So I'm, I'm fascinated Daniel to hear"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":107.67,"endTime":112.92,"body":"your perspective as someone who's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":112.92,"endTime":117.675,"body":"lived there now for quite some time and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":112.92,"endTime":117.675,"body":"are deeply embedded in the ecosystem"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":117.675,"endTime":119.955,"body":"there what's happening in China."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":119.955,"endTime":123.525,"body":"So could you just start us"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":119.955,"endTime":123.525,"body":"off and give us a, a broad"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":124.115,"endTime":126.645,"body":"overview of the Chinese context?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":127.214,"endTime":128.324,"body":"I will, I will."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":128.324,"endTime":130.911,"body":"Thanks for asking, uh,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":128.324,"endTime":130.911,"body":"you dropped two points."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":130.911,"endTime":132.441,"body":"The first one is sustainability."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":132.441,"endTime":133.611,"body":"The other one is Asia."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":133.711,"endTime":135.391,"body":"Both are very broad terms."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":135.411,"endTime":137.484,"body":"So let me dissect it a little bit."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":137.484,"endTime":140.874,"body":"If you talk about sustainability,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":137.484,"endTime":140.874,"body":"you very soon come to the point"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":140.874,"endTime":143.094,"body":"of environment and climate change."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":143.094,"endTime":145.024,"body":"So let's focus on that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":145.024,"endTime":147.204,"body":"Also in terms of Asia,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":145.024,"endTime":147.204,"body":"let's focus on China."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":147.204,"endTime":151.854,"body":"Of course, China has been within"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":147.204,"endTime":151.854,"body":"the region, not only the, the major"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":151.854,"endTime":155.715,"body":"production hub, but also let me,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":151.854,"endTime":155.715,"body":"put it this way, the environmental"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":155.715,"endTime":158.445,"body":"sinner that has been in the past."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":158.655,"endTime":159.045,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":159.045,"endTime":164.075,"body":"But that is, a topic which is,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":159.045,"endTime":164.075,"body":"to change in the, years to come."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":164.08,"endTime":167.661,"body":"China has a very bold"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":164.08,"endTime":167.661,"body":"roadmap, to reduce that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":168.411,"endTime":172.101,"body":"And to move towards a greener"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":168.411,"endTime":172.101,"body":"environment and greener economy."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":173.031,"endTime":178.421,"body":"And, uh, this is certainly the point I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":173.031,"endTime":178.421,"body":"would like to share with you and with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":178.426,"endTime":182.575,"body":"the audience today, because that is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":178.426,"endTime":182.575,"body":"what I'm, also, very familiar with."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":183.055,"endTime":187.585,"body":"Not only because I'm living here in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":183.055,"endTime":187.585,"body":"China and in Shanghai particular, but"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":187.585,"endTime":192.265,"body":"also this is part of our consulting"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":187.585,"endTime":192.265,"body":"offering to our clients, helping them"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":193.45,"endTime":198.39,"body":"to set the roadmap, into a greener"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":193.45,"endTime":198.39,"body":"future, whether it's energy, efficiency"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":198.39,"endTime":203.1,"body":"programs, whether it's a sustainability,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":198.39,"endTime":203.1,"body":"programs, whether it's sustainable"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":203.105,"endTime":208.74,"body":"product development, these, uh, different"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":203.105,"endTime":208.74,"body":"topics which have been, really hot topic"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":208.74,"endTime":213.39,"body":"for us and for our clients, uh, in the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":208.74,"endTime":213.39,"body":"last couple of months and years, yeah?."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":214.32,"endTime":219.84,"body":"So I mentioned environment, certainly the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":214.32,"endTime":219.84,"body":"major topic, uh, with in sustainability"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":220.35,"endTime":222.48,"body":"and, uh, not only China, but globally."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":222.63,"endTime":225.535,"body":"This has, of course"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":222.63,"endTime":225.535,"body":"drawn a lot of, interest."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":225.895,"endTime":230.54,"body":"over the last couple of years, climate"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":225.895,"endTime":230.54,"body":"change is among the most urgent topics,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":230.62,"endTime":232.03,"body":"uh, being discussed at the moment."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":232.66,"endTime":236.38,"body":"And, uh, of course, if you look"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":232.66,"endTime":236.38,"body":"at weather news or the news report"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":237.01,"endTime":238.75,"body":"disaster here, disaster there."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":239.13,"endTime":243.365,"body":"You hear a temperature rise once in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":239.13,"endTime":243.365,"body":"the century, once in a thousand years."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":243.365,"endTime":246.815,"body":"So these terms have been,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":243.365,"endTime":246.815,"body":"become a, a common, uh, prefix"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":247.295,"endTime":248.825,"body":"in weather reports nowadays."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":249.335,"endTime":252.725,"body":"And, uh, really everyone really"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":249.335,"endTime":252.725,"body":"has a sense and can feel it can"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":252.725,"endTime":255.035,"body":"see, that the climate is changing."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":255.755,"endTime":260.105,"body":"Not only temperature getting higher, but"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":255.755,"endTime":260.105,"body":"we are talking about pollution of rivers."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":260.195,"endTime":262.508,"body":"We're talking about roads, food shortages."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":262.508,"endTime":268.393,"body":"So this topic, also impacts the daily"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":262.508,"endTime":268.393,"body":"life of everyone, on the planet."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":268.753,"endTime":271.091,"body":"And of course, particular in, in China."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":271.451,"endTime":276.538,"body":"And, uh, China has realized that that,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":271.451,"endTime":276.538,"body":"pollution and, and, environmental"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":276.538,"endTime":278.728,"body":"topics is impacting health."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":279.418,"endTime":281.068,"body":"Ability also to grow food."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":281.068,"endTime":284.405,"body":"And, you know, in China, there are a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":281.068,"endTime":284.405,"body":"lot of people who, who need to be fed."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":285.035,"endTime":289.025,"body":"Housing is a topic, uh,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":285.035,"endTime":289.025,"body":"scarcity of land safety at work."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":289.055,"endTime":292.025,"body":"All these topics, with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":289.055,"endTime":292.025,"body":"China has come to realize."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":292.835,"endTime":298.125,"body":"And, this also being, a major initiator"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":292.835,"endTime":298.125,"body":"of all these bold programs China has been,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":298.635,"endTime":300.375,"body":"has defined over the, the last years."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":301.021,"endTime":301.411,"body":"okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":301.411,"endTime":301.771,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":301.831,"endTime":304.381,"body":"And you said China's goals are ambitious."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":304.381,"endTime":310.13,"body":"I'm going to, challenge you on that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":304.381,"endTime":310.13,"body":"because here in Europe, we have set"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":310.13,"endTime":315.65,"body":"goals of 55% emissions reduction"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":310.13,"endTime":315.65,"body":"by 2030, which is hugely ambitious."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":315.71,"endTime":318.44,"body":"The Biden administration has said"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":315.71,"endTime":318.44,"body":"they want to cut their emissions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":318.44,"endTime":325.13,"body":"52% by 2030, and China has said it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":318.44,"endTime":325.13,"body":"wants its emissions to peak by 2030."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":325.693,"endTime":329.173,"body":"The EU and the US said they"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":325.693,"endTime":329.173,"body":"want to get to net zero by 2050."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":329.203,"endTime":335.376,"body":"China has said 2060, so  how are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":329.203,"endTime":335.376,"body":"you saying that the Chinese goals"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":335.376,"endTime":338.706,"body":"are ambitious given that it's,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":335.376,"endTime":338.706,"body":"it seems to be lagging behind"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":338.706,"endTime":340.286,"body":"Europe and the us in those aims."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":341.0,"endTime":341.9,"body":"sure you are right."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":341.9,"endTime":343.01,"body":"You are right to ask that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":343.01,"endTime":346.58,"body":"And if I look at a little bit"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":343.01,"endTime":346.58,"body":"at the statistics and figures, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":346.58,"endTime":350.72,"body":"know that China is accounting at"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":346.58,"endTime":350.72,"body":"the moment for 30% percent of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":350.72,"endTime":352.88,"body":"global greenhouse gas emissions."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":353.78,"endTime":354.77,"body":"30% percent."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":355.145,"endTime":359.445,"body":"Put it into the context of, the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":355.145,"endTime":359.445,"body":"GDP global share of China 18%."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":359.465,"endTime":362.765,"body":"So it's an over proportionate"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":359.465,"endTime":362.765,"body":"pollution on GDP generated."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":363.365,"endTime":367.025,"body":"However, again, that the population"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":363.365,"endTime":367.025,"body":"is big so that the capita emission"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":367.385,"endTime":372.155,"body":"is rather low around seven tons"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":367.385,"endTime":372.155,"body":"compared to US I remember around"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":372.155,"endTime":378.321,"body":"14-15 tons, but keep in mind that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":372.155,"endTime":378.321,"body":"China is yet a developing country."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":378.471,"endTime":381.381,"body":"So China started rather"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":378.471,"endTime":381.381,"body":"late with industrialization."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":381.711,"endTime":386.181,"body":"China had other priorities in the past,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":381.711,"endTime":386.181,"body":"so economic roles was the priority."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":387.051,"endTime":392.095,"body":"So naturally they also started rather late"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":387.051,"endTime":392.095,"body":"thinking in, uh, into a greener growth."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":392.935,"endTime":397.318,"body":"However, they are there at the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":392.935,"endTime":397.318,"body":"moment and china has realized"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":397.598,"endTime":398.948,"body":"the importance of environment."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":398.948,"endTime":401.191,"body":"So they are trying to, speed up that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":401.191,"endTime":404.731,"body":"And I give you later also a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":401.191,"endTime":404.731,"body":"few facts to underline that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":405.391,"endTime":409.411,"body":"And you mentioned that, uh, that's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":405.391,"endTime":409.411,"body":"a clear message also from the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":409.416,"endTime":416.293,"body":"government in Beijing, carbon peak by"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":409.416,"endTime":416.293,"body":"2030 and carbon neutrality by 2060."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":416.293,"endTime":420.908,"body":"So it's 30 years and I looked it up cause"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":416.293,"endTime":420.908,"body":"I didn't have everything in my head."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":421.618,"endTime":424.848,"body":"It's a very short cycle"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":421.618,"endTime":424.848,"body":"from peak to neutrality."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":424.918,"endTime":427.618,"body":"If you look at industrialized"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":424.918,"endTime":427.618,"body":"countries, they took much longer"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":427.618,"endTime":429.248,"body":"to reach from peak to neutrality."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":429.934,"endTime":430.354,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":430.744,"endTime":430.984,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":430.989,"endTime":433.684,"body":"And in fairness to China, you're right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":433.684,"endTime":440.374,"body":"China started much later, but also I gotta"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":433.684,"endTime":440.374,"body":"say, looking at the last few five year"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":440.374,"endTime":446.224,"body":"plans, China has a record of setting,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":440.374,"endTime":446.224,"body":"extremely ambitious goals for the rollout"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":446.224,"endTime":450.844,"body":"of renewables and then blowing through"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":446.224,"endTime":450.844,"body":"those targets a year or two early."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":450.844,"endTime":453.358,"body":"The, plan for 2020, for example."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":453.933,"endTime":457.653,"body":"I forget how many gigawatts of solar"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":453.933,"endTime":457.653,"body":"and wind China committed to getting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":457.653,"endTime":460.683,"body":"to, but it was seen as very ambitious"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":457.653,"endTime":460.683,"body":"at the time and they blew through"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":460.683,"endTime":463.503,"body":"those targets in 2018, 2 years early."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":463.713,"endTime":467.313,"body":"And then they set more targets for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":463.713,"endTime":467.313,"body":"2020, which they reached in 2019."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":467.313,"endTime":471.723,"body":"So China does have that record"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":467.313,"endTime":471.723,"body":"of doing well on those targets."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":471.728,"endTime":475.353,"body":"And in fact, just a few weeks ago,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":471.728,"endTime":475.353,"body":"Bloomberg issued a report saying"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":475.353,"endTime":480.123,"body":"that China was set to reach its 2030"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":475.353,"endTime":480.123,"body":"goals by 2025, which is incredible."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":482.523,"endTime":483.063,"body":"It is indeed."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":483.288,"endTime":487.159,"body":"That is indeed a fact Tom, as a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":483.288,"endTime":487.159,"body":"clear indication that China is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":515.599,"endTime":517.461,"body":"doing, quite a lot of, things."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":517.601,"endTime":522.2810000000001,"body":"They initiate a lot of programs and they"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":517.601,"endTime":522.2810000000001,"body":"are also successful in that before I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":522.2810000000001,"endTime":529.191,"body":"go further into that allow me also to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":522.2810000000001,"endTime":529.191,"body":"bring it a little bit into the context"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":529.191,"endTime":532.782,"body":"h where all this strong push uh for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":529.191,"endTime":532.782,"body":"um sustainability , climate change."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":532.8720000000001,"endTime":536.129,"body":"And, emission reduction is coming from."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":536.129,"endTime":540.6740000000001,"body":"Of course, first of all, it's a really"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":536.129,"endTime":540.6740000000001,"body":"a big topic of safeguarding, the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":540.9440000000001,"endTime":546.104,"body":"natural resources Xi Jinping President"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":540.9440000000001,"endTime":546.104,"body":"of China said um something and lush"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":546.104,"endTime":548.2940000000001,"body":"mountains are invaluable assets."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":548.2940000000001,"endTime":554.1640000000001,"body":"This is a clear message we need that to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":548.2940000000001,"endTime":554.1640000000001,"body":"sustain and of course emissions also cause"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":554.234,"endTime":557.4440000000001,"body":"a lot of economic damage, health problems."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":558.2840000000001,"endTime":561.87,"body":"And, I don't go into details, but,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":558.2840000000001,"endTime":561.87,"body":"you can also measure the economic"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":561.8900000000001,"endTime":564.5300000000001,"body":"loss and percentages of the GDP."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":564.5350000000001,"endTime":567.5590000000001,"body":"And, also in, US dollar"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":564.5350000000001,"endTime":567.5590000000001,"body":"terms, these are immense."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":567.739,"endTime":572.0290000000001,"body":"China has realized that, of course"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":567.739,"endTime":572.0290000000001,"body":"there are also other topics like,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":572.0290000000001,"endTime":578.037,"body":"reducing the strategic, dependency on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":572.0290000000001,"endTime":578.037,"body":"oil imports or imports of, gas and coal."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":579.1020000000001,"endTime":583.4110000000001,"body":"And of course, China also has, a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":579.1020000000001,"endTime":583.4110000000001,"body":"point to prove internationally."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":583.4770000000001,"endTime":586.5440000000001,"body":"and I guess, this, this whole"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":583.4770000000001,"endTime":586.5440000000001,"body":"climate change and this whole,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":586.7840000000001,"endTime":590.2940000000001,"body":"environmental topic is a great,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":586.7840000000001,"endTime":590.2940000000001,"body":"opportunity for China to shine."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":590.6540000000001,"endTime":590.9540000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":591.974,"endTime":594.0440000000001,"body":"And you talk also about achievements."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":594.614,"endTime":595.394,"body":"Yes, you are right."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":595.4340000000001,"endTime":597.354,"body":"The targets are achieved earlier."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":597.354,"endTime":602.464,"body":"Typically, you know, if I look at it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":597.354,"endTime":602.464,"body":"installed a wind power end of 2021."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":603.1890000000001,"endTime":607.9060000000001,"body":"With, 330, uh  GigaWatt that's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":603.1890000000001,"endTime":607.9060000000001,"body":"number one second to none."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":607.936,"endTime":610.7860000000001,"body":"It's, uh, double off the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":607.936,"endTime":610.7860000000001,"body":"installation in the US."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":611.666,"endTime":616.2860000000001,"body":"For solar, same picture, even"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":611.666,"endTime":616.2860000000001,"body":"more extreme, 310, Giga Watt"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":616.311,"endTime":621.649,"body":"installed, capacity also global"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":616.311,"endTime":621.649,"body":"number one, triple than US."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":621.6790000000001,"endTime":626.614,"body":"So these are clear indications"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":621.6790000000001,"endTime":626.614,"body":"within the period of seven eight"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":626.619,"endTime":627.994,"body":"years when they ramped that up."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":628.2040000000001,"endTime":629.0740000000001,"body":"Keep that in mind."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":629.5840000000001,"endTime":629.9440000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":631.0540000000001,"endTime":639.634,"body":"So of course these are some examples"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":631.0540000000001,"endTime":639.634,"body":"how fast and how determined policies"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":639.634,"endTime":641.854,"body":"and initiatives are implemented."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":642.394,"endTime":646.344,"body":"And China does have a really,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":642.394,"endTime":646.344,"body":"a, broad set of policies."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":647.629,"endTime":652.152,"body":"A broad set of regulations and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":647.629,"endTime":652.152,"body":"also, big pockets to fund that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":652.2120000000001,"endTime":656.7760000000001,"body":"And I give you some examples, the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":652.2120000000001,"endTime":656.7760000000001,"body":"national, development and reform"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":656.7760000000001,"endTime":660.7790000000001,"body":"commission, which is also, economic"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":656.7760000000001,"endTime":660.7790000000001,"body":"planning body of the state government."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":661.139,"endTime":665.099,"body":"They have invested over the last"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":661.139,"endTime":665.099,"body":"years around 70 billion, uh, Euro"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":665.099,"endTime":667.739,"body":"into, these kind of programs."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":667.979,"endTime":668.219,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":668.219,"endTime":674.2840000000001,"body":"So these are immense investments, other"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":668.219,"endTime":674.2840000000001,"body":"think tanks, estimate total investments"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":674.494,"endTime":681.4540000000001,"body":"into environmental and energy, reduction"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":674.494,"endTime":681.4540000000001,"body":"of around 20 trillion Euro, not from the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":681.4540000000001,"endTime":683.224,"body":"government, but from the entire industry."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":683.2840000000001,"endTime":684.864,"body":"So also from the corporates and so on."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":684.864,"endTime":690.301,"body":"So these are immense figures, so"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":684.864,"endTime":690.301,"body":"not only to make, climate change"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":691.0310000000001,"endTime":693.9010000000001,"body":"looking nice on the paper, but"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":691.0310000000001,"endTime":693.9010000000001,"body":"also to act up on that, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":694.124,"endTime":694.5440000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":694.5440000000001,"endTime":694.964,"body":"Very good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":695.484,"endTime":699.894,"body":"And, you mentioned that, China tends"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":695.484,"endTime":699.894,"body":"to shine in some of these areas."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":700.134,"endTime":704.2940000000001,"body":"One area that I'm quite interested"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":700.134,"endTime":704.2940000000001,"body":"in is electric mobility."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":705.024,"endTime":710.0340000000001,"body":"And for example, you have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":705.024,"endTime":710.0340000000001,"body":"electric vehicle manufacturers in China."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":710.0340000000001,"endTime":713.364,"body":"You have a high percentage of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":710.0340000000001,"endTime":713.364,"body":"electric vehicle sales in China."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":714.519,"endTime":719.859,"body":"Maybe not now as compared to Europe,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":714.519,"endTime":719.859,"body":"but China was very early in this space"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":720.0690000000001,"endTime":725.644,"body":"and certainly ahead of the US in that,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":720.0690000000001,"endTime":725.644,"body":"and in terms of particularly electric"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":725.644,"endTime":730.9240000000001,"body":"buses, so the global fleet of electric"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":725.644,"endTime":730.9240000000001,"body":"buses, I'm gonna get the numbers"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":730.9240000000001,"endTime":734.224,"body":"wrong because it changes constantly,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":730.9240000000001,"endTime":734.224,"body":"but I'll be in the right ballpark."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":734.494,"endTime":740.124,"body":"The global fleet of fully electric buses"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":734.494,"endTime":740.124,"body":"is roughly in the order of 650,000."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":740.6940000000001,"endTime":743.754,"body":"Of which around 600,000 are in China."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":744.1740000000001,"endTime":747.6540000000001,"body":"So China got very early into this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":744.1740000000001,"endTime":747.6540000000001,"body":"space, perfected the technology"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":747.6540000000001,"endTime":749.0640000000001,"body":"and is now going out globally."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":749.644,"endTime":753.724,"body":"And selling its expertise and selling"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":749.644,"endTime":753.724,"body":"its buses manufactured in China to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":753.724,"endTime":756.724,"body":"places like Santiago de Chile and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":753.724,"endTime":756.724,"body":"places like that around the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":756.994,"endTime":761.9440000000001,"body":"So this tends to be, I think, a pattern"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":756.994,"endTime":761.9440000000001,"body":"that we see in China, particularly in this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":761.9490000000001,"endTime":767.7040000000001,"body":"space where they go all in on a particular"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":761.9490000000001,"endTime":767.7040000000001,"body":"technology, figure out early how to do"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":767.7040000000001,"endTime":770.964,"body":"it, and then sell that technology and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":767.7040000000001,"endTime":770.964,"body":"their expertise around it globally."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":771.4540000000001,"endTime":772.964,"body":"You're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":771.4540000000001,"endTime":772.964,"body":"interpretation is correct."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":772.994,"endTime":777.6840000000001,"body":"Of course we can argue the motivation"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":772.994,"endTime":777.6840000000001,"body":"behind this push for e-mobility,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":777.7040000000001,"endTime":779.714,"body":"whether it was really sustainability."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":779.774,"endTime":784.0640000000001,"body":"I would rather say, the, the rationale"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":779.774,"endTime":784.0640000000001,"body":"was to build up, an own technology"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":784.0640000000001,"endTime":788.4440000000001,"body":"compared to combustion engines where"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":784.0640000000001,"endTime":788.4440000000001,"body":"International players were dominating."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":789.431,"endTime":793.4330000000001,"body":"But again, I would also see this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":789.431,"endTime":793.4330000000001,"body":"as a puzzle of, sustainability."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":793.4330000000001,"endTime":796.7030000000001,"body":"This is part of this, part of the entire"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":793.4330000000001,"endTime":796.7030000000001,"body":"story, even though the rationale was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":796.7030000000001,"endTime":799.8230000000001,"body":"a different one, but you are right."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":800.1890000000001,"endTime":801.629,"body":"China started very early."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":802.173,"endTime":806.373,"body":"around 15 years with also massive"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":802.173,"endTime":806.373,"body":"investments, uh, also from government,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":806.493,"endTime":811.003,"body":"help with subsidies, to push also not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":806.493,"endTime":811.003,"body":"only manufacturing, but also consumption."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":811.008,"endTime":812.3530000000001,"body":"So that worked, pretty well."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":812.4730000000001,"endTime":815.6830000000001,"body":"By the way, these subsidies, have"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":812.4730000000001,"endTime":815.6830000000001,"body":"been reduced over a couple, uh,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":815.923,"endTime":820.373,"body":"last couple of years to make that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":815.923,"endTime":820.373,"body":"industry more sustainable, but the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":820.393,"endTime":822.1260000000001,"body":"results are, uh, really impressive."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":822.3660000000001,"endTime":830.6460000000001,"body":"And especially last year, 2021, compared"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":822.3660000000001,"endTime":830.6460000000001,"body":"to 2020, we had a doubling of e-cars being"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":830.6460000000001,"endTime":833.7660000000001,"body":"sold in China, give you some figures."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":833.826,"endTime":837.6060000000001,"body":"last year around 3.3 million,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":833.826,"endTime":837.6060000000001,"body":"uh, vehicles being sold."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":838.1160000000001,"endTime":841.926,"body":"And that's, uh, almost"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":838.1160000000001,"endTime":841.926,"body":"a tripling from 2020."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":842.7810000000001,"endTime":845.7510000000001,"body":"So, but the majority are cars still, Tom?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":846.171,"endTime":846.8910000000001,"body":"Yes, you're right."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":846.8910000000001,"endTime":850.7610000000001,"body":"Commercial vehicles, trucks and buses,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":846.8910000000001,"endTime":850.7610000000001,"body":"take an important share, but the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":850.7610000000001,"endTime":855.801,"body":"majority is electric cars and here,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":850.7610000000001,"endTime":855.801,"body":"especially fully full electric cars,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":855.801,"endTime":858.6410000000001,"body":"not hybrid, but fully electric cars."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":859.8910000000001,"endTime":864.4680000000001,"body":"Again, another example how"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":859.8910000000001,"endTime":864.4680000000001,"body":"determined China is and, um, how"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":864.4680000000001,"endTime":866.1780000000001,"body":"effective the policies, work."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":866.1780000000001,"endTime":868.133,"body":"I mean talking about Shanghai."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":868.1930000000001,"endTime":871.143,"body":"We know that we are just coming"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":868.1930000000001,"endTime":871.143,"body":"out of the lockdown, for 10 weeks"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":871.143,"endTime":876.673,"body":"and putting a city with 20 million,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":871.143,"endTime":876.673,"body":"people into a lockdown tells a story."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":876.793,"endTime":877.0630000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":877.393,"endTime":878.9530000000001,"body":"Yeah, yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":879.383,"endTime":884.763,"body":"curious about that because China is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":879.383,"endTime":884.763,"body":"obviously very different, politically"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":884.763,"endTime":889.4730000000001,"body":"from the likes of the us or the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":884.763,"endTime":889.4730000000001,"body":"EU, it's a central government."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":889.614,"endTime":892.614,"body":"essentially whatever the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":889.614,"endTime":892.614,"body":"government says happens."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":893.274,"endTime":895.014,"body":"There's there's no opposition."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":896.1540000000001,"endTime":901.3140000000001,"body":"So it's great to see that there is a lot"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":896.1540000000001,"endTime":901.3140000000001,"body":"of work happening in the sustainability"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":901.3140000000001,"endTime":906.514,"body":"space in China, and that there is this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":901.3140000000001,"endTime":906.514,"body":"top down approach, but is there a bottom"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":906.514,"endTime":909.5310000000001,"body":"up ground swell support for it as well?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":909.5310000000001,"endTime":913.941,"body":"Do the regular people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":909.5310000000001,"endTime":913.941,"body":"on the ground in China?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":913.941,"endTime":915.051,"body":"Are they in favor of this?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":915.051,"endTime":918.1110000000001,"body":"Are they demanding it or is it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":915.051,"endTime":918.1110000000001,"body":"something that's being imposed on them?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":918.7130000000001,"endTime":919.7030000000001,"body":"You are certainly right."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":919.913,"endTime":922.8230000000001,"body":"Of course the government, uh,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":919.913,"endTime":922.8230000000001,"body":"pushed quite a bit in the past."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":923.123,"endTime":923.3330000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":923.3330000000001,"endTime":928.118,"body":"But in the meantime, And I give you, gave"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":923.3330000000001,"endTime":928.118,"body":"you the example in the beginning, because"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":928.118,"endTime":932.7130000000001,"body":"also the, the people they see also the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":928.118,"endTime":932.7130000000001,"body":"impact of climate change, they see it not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":932.7130000000001,"endTime":936.493,"body":"only in the weather reports, they see it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":932.7130000000001,"endTime":936.493,"body":"in the news, they see it on the streets."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":937.003,"endTime":940.196,"body":"They see it when they go to the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":937.003,"endTime":940.196,"body":"doctor, they realize that, yeah, of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":940.196,"endTime":945.422,"body":"course, all this online media, also"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":940.196,"endTime":945.422,"body":"adds up to that where sustainability"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":945.422,"endTime":950.0070000000001,"body":"and environmental topics are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":945.422,"endTime":950.0070000000001,"body":"really, overwhelmingly communicated."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":950.6070000000001,"endTime":953.2940000000001,"body":"So yes, there's a very high awareness."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":953.3240000000001,"endTime":954.614,"body":"The people are supporting that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":955.1460000000001,"endTime":956.1060000000001,"body":"all over China."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":956.1110000000001,"endTime":959.591,"body":"Of course, you have some"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":956.1110000000001,"endTime":959.591,"body":"differences in yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":959.591,"endTime":962.961,"body":"In the regions, Eastern China, Western"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":959.591,"endTime":962.961,"body":"China, especially larger cities"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":962.961,"endTime":964.851,"body":"like Shanghai or smaller cities."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":964.941,"endTime":967.341,"body":"typically you have a higher"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":964.941,"endTime":967.341,"body":"awareness in larger cities."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":968.1740000000001,"endTime":971.912,"body":"Of course, this awareness is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":968.1740000000001,"endTime":971.912,"body":"also changing by education"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":971.917,"endTime":973.652,"body":"level by income level and so on."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":973.652,"endTime":974.6120000000001,"body":"But I would say."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":975.572,"endTime":980.432,"body":"looking at recent studies around 90,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":975.572,"endTime":980.432,"body":"95% are first of all, aware about,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":980.476,"endTime":986.254,"body":"carbon topics, carbon peak, carbon"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":980.476,"endTime":986.254,"body":"neutrality, climate, initiatives, without"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":986.254,"endTime":988.2040000000001,"body":"everyone knowing, uh, all the details."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":988.2040000000001,"endTime":991.0540000000001,"body":"But overall they're very"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":988.2040000000001,"endTime":991.0540000000001,"body":"much aware about that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":991.114,"endTime":997.274,"body":"And, interestingly also they recognize"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":991.114,"endTime":997.274,"body":"that environmental topic starts with the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":997.274,"endTime":998.744,"body":"individual and, not from the government."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":998.744,"endTime":1001.2040000000001,"body":"So this is also some,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":998.744,"endTime":1001.2040000000001,"body":"uh, interesting learning."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1001.2040000000001,"endTime":1004.272,"body":"And if I look out of the window,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1001.2040000000001,"endTime":1004.272,"body":"how does it look in practice?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1004.5980000000001,"endTime":1009.1750000000001,"body":"you see also how the waste is classified,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1004.5980000000001,"endTime":1009.1750000000001,"body":"which you bring, downstairs, to dispose."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1009.1750000000001,"endTime":1009.205,"body":"Uh,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1009.315,"endTime":1009.615,"body":"mm."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1010.6450000000001,"endTime":1012.8050000000001,"body":"If you run through"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1010.6450000000001,"endTime":1012.8050000000001,"body":"Shanghai, you hardly find any"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1012.8050000000001,"endTime":1014.7850000000001,"body":"trash bins to put your trash in."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1014.815,"endTime":1018.071,"body":"So means also keep it with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1014.815,"endTime":1018.071,"body":"yourself or don't, dispose"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1018.076,"endTime":1020.3810000000001,"body":"it, and put it on the street."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1020.3810000000001,"endTime":1026.457,"body":"As for awareness and willingness to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1020.3810000000001,"endTime":1026.457,"body":"reuse, to use, recycled packaging bags."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1026.711,"endTime":1031.681,"body":"To buy organic green food, couple of,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1026.711,"endTime":1031.681,"body":"topics, which, tells me very clearly."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1031.681,"endTime":1031.981,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1031.981,"endTime":1034.171,"body":"The, the population is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1031.981,"endTime":1034.171,"body":"also supporting that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1034.171,"endTime":1036.088,"body":"There's a very, very strong awareness."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1036.421,"endTime":1036.511,"body":"Down"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1036.958,"endTime":1037.208,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1037.208,"endTime":1037.708,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1037.7259999999999,"endTime":1038.356,"body":"That's great to hear."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1038.806,"endTime":1044.722,"body":"And can you speak to any fantastic,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1038.806,"endTime":1044.722,"body":"showcases of sustainability, any kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1044.722,"endTime":1049.462,"body":"lighthouses, any kind of best practice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1044.722,"endTime":1049.462,"body":"companies or organizations or cities,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1049.942,"endTime":1051.512,"body":"that are doing a really stellar job?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1052.515,"endTime":1055.515,"body":"Would be difficult"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1052.515,"endTime":1055.515,"body":"to name any particular companies."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1055.905,"endTime":1058.395,"body":"Especially larger multinational companies."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1058.425,"endTime":1061.755,"body":"They're doing quite a bit in terms"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1058.425,"endTime":1061.755,"body":"of sustainability and a little bit"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1061.755,"endTime":1066.555,"body":"more than public image, but also"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1061.755,"endTime":1066.555,"body":"launching programs, uh, investing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1066.555,"endTime":1071.784,"body":"in, renewable energy, for their"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1066.555,"endTime":1071.784,"body":"factories, optimizing their processes."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1071.789,"endTime":1073.644,"body":"So it would be, would be unfair."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1074.559,"endTime":1078.6090000000002,"body":"I can only tell you also from our"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1074.559,"endTime":1078.6090000000002,"body":"consulting practice, we support quite"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1078.6090000000002,"endTime":1081.729,"body":"a lot of multinational companies,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1078.6090000000002,"endTime":1081.729,"body":"whether it's building materials, whether"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1081.729,"endTime":1085.719,"body":"it's chemical companies, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1081.729,"endTime":1085.719,"body":"typical manufacturing companies who"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1085.719,"endTime":1087.902,"body":"have to shift their energy supply."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1088.8020000000001,"endTime":1092.8220000000001,"body":"But if you ask me for a lighthouse"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1088.8020000000001,"endTime":1092.8220000000001,"body":"project, probably I would"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1093.242,"endTime":1094.982,"body":"point out, uh, winter Olympics."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1095.402,"endTime":1095.972,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1096.0620000000001,"endTime":1099.3020000000001,"body":"Uh, there has been quite,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1096.0620000000001,"endTime":1099.3020000000001,"body":"quite some arguments about, uh,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1099.332,"endTime":1100.972,"body":"winter Olympics in Beijing, but."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1101.957,"endTime":1103.847,"body":"These Olympics wear carbon neutral."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1104.597,"endTime":1107.5720000000001,"body":"So, this is certainly, one"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1104.597,"endTime":1107.5720000000001,"body":"of the lighthouse project."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1107.602,"endTime":1109.162,"body":"I would point out if you ask me."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1109.5520000000001,"endTime":1113.837,"body":"It's not that they didn't emit any carbon,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1109.5520000000001,"endTime":1113.837,"body":"but they leveled that out on a accounting"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1113.837,"endTime":1116.1970000000001,"body":"book means, trading carbon certificates."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1116.287,"endTime":1120.727,"body":"And this is maybe another interesting"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1116.287,"endTime":1120.727,"body":"topic where China is, I would"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1120.727,"endTime":1123.9070000000002,"body":"say, in the early stage, but very"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1120.727,"endTime":1123.9070000000002,"body":"determined to build up here also the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1123.9070000000002,"endTime":1125.827,"body":"sophisticated carbon trading system."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1126.277,"endTime":1126.577,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1128.017,"endTime":1129.6970000000001,"body":"And the volume is quite massive."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1130.102,"endTime":1133.432,"body":"Still the European trading"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1130.102,"endTime":1133.432,"body":"carbon trading system."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1133.432,"endTime":1136.012,"body":"It's still, I would say"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1133.432,"endTime":1136.012,"body":"international benchmark and quite"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1136.012,"endTime":1140.488,"body":"developed, but, in China, this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1136.012,"endTime":1140.488,"body":"is quite a massive, initiative."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1140.678,"endTime":1145.575,"body":"So again, this winter Olympics,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1140.678,"endTime":1145.575,"body":"uh, certainly, a, project to point"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1145.575,"endTime":1149.805,"body":"out the same, uh, by the way,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1145.575,"endTime":1149.805,"body":"will also, uh, happen for the Asia"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1149.805,"endTime":1151.425,"body":"games in Hangzhou in next year."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1151.545,"endTime":1157.143,"body":"So these are some examples, where you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1151.545,"endTime":1157.143,"body":"can also see the will to implement"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1157.323,"endTime":1158.433,"body":"what is written on the paper."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1158.613,"endTime":1158.7930000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1158.7930000000001,"endTime":1162.573,"body":"But again, there are a lot of other"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1158.7930000000001,"endTime":1162.573,"body":"companies, who are also working and by"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1162.578,"endTime":1166.353,"body":"the way, not only international companies"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1162.578,"endTime":1166.353,"body":"operating in China, but also Chinese"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1166.353,"endTime":1168.2430000000002,"body":"companies, they are very active on that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1168.633,"endTime":1169.333,"body":"Okay, superb."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1169.353,"endTime":1171.123,"body":"And you mentioned the Olympics."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1171.2730000000001,"endTime":1175.323,"body":"I think many of us will remember when"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1171.2730000000001,"endTime":1175.323,"body":"the summer Olympics were in Beijing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1175.7430000000002,"endTime":1179.2530000000002,"body":"and the reports were coming out"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1175.7430000000002,"endTime":1179.2530000000002,"body":"about the air quality issues there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1179.4930000000002,"endTime":1180.933,"body":"Has that improved in the meantime?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1181.383,"endTime":1182.073,"body":"Yes, it has."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1182.143,"endTime":1182.563,"body":"It has."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1182.613,"endTime":1186.093,"body":"I mean, I'm living in Shanghai since"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1182.613,"endTime":1186.093,"body":"20 years now when I came to Shanghai in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1186.093,"endTime":1192.54,"body":"late 99, I had very funny days in summer"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1186.093,"endTime":1192.54,"body":"where the air was thick and yellow and,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1192.6000000000001,"endTime":1195.06,"body":"uh, I couldn't see a 200 meters wide and."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1195.795,"endTime":1197.295,"body":"This has improved tremendously."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1197.295,"endTime":1201.9550000000002,"body":"And, and again,  this is really great"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1197.295,"endTime":1201.9550000000002,"body":"job, China has done in the meantime"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1202.105,"endTime":1203.815,"body":"and we're talking about 20 years."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1203.875,"endTime":1205.352,"body":"It's not a, it's not a long, long period."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1205.622,"endTime":1205.742,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1206.372,"endTime":1207.632,"body":"Same applies for Beijing."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1208.5710000000001,"endTime":1212.0610000000001,"body":"but it, uh, also depends a little"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1208.5710000000001,"endTime":1212.0610000000001,"body":"bit on the industrial activity,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1212.0610000000001,"endTime":1213.411,"body":"also direction of the wind."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1213.411,"endTime":1218.9160000000002,"body":"So it's sometimes hard to cons control,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1213.411,"endTime":1218.9160000000002,"body":"you know, uh, Of course, you know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1218.9160000000002,"endTime":1223.056,"body":"if these, uh, milestone events, uh,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1218.9160000000002,"endTime":1223.056,"body":"happen, of course, China will also"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1223.056,"endTime":1227.4660000000001,"body":"take precaution, uh, to shut down the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1223.056,"endTime":1227.4660000000001,"body":"industries in the, uh, in the suburb"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1227.4660000000001,"endTime":1233.5720000000001,"body":"of Beijings in order to manage the,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1227.4660000000001,"endTime":1233.5720000000001,"body":"air quality, but talking about Beijing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1233.577,"endTime":1240.339,"body":"Olympics 2008, almost 15 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1233.577,"endTime":1240.339,"body":"that has, improved tremendously."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1241.2540000000001,"endTime":1241.584,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1241.584,"endTime":1242.094,"body":"Super."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1242.454,"endTime":1247.914,"body":"And what kind of opportunities are arising"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1242.454,"endTime":1247.914,"body":"from the focus on climate change in China?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1248.578,"endTime":1248.9080000000001,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1248.9080000000001,"endTime":1253.6180000000002,"body":"I think we talked about the greater good,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1248.9080000000001,"endTime":1253.6180000000002,"body":"and of course I'm not, uh, elaborating"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1253.623,"endTime":1258.8980000000001,"body":"on fulfillment of the regulations"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1253.623,"endTime":1258.8980000000001,"body":"by companies or being compliant."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1259.318,"endTime":1260.6380000000001,"body":"I would see the major advantage."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1262.228,"endTime":1268.588,"body":"And opportunities are on the one"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1262.228,"endTime":1268.588,"body":"side really to define a unique"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1268.588,"endTime":1272.038,"body":"selling proposition for your company,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1268.588,"endTime":1272.038,"body":"compared to your competitors."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1272.1280000000002,"endTime":1275.488,"body":"This applies for every company,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1272.1280000000002,"endTime":1275.488,"body":"to define sustainability as a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1275.488,"endTime":1277.328,"body":"core DNA of your future strategy."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1278.998,"endTime":1283.498,"body":"Be recognized by market players, be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1278.998,"endTime":1283.498,"body":"recognized by yeah, by the entire"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1283.498,"endTime":1289.001,"body":"ecosystem and, last but not least,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1283.498,"endTime":1289.001,"body":"by your customers, who then, and also"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1289.021,"endTime":1293.7050000000002,"body":"this is a fun fact, customers are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1289.021,"endTime":1293.7050000000002,"body":"also willing to pay a price premium."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1293.7050000000002,"endTime":1298.2350000000001,"body":"So, ideally, sustainable product,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1293.7050000000002,"endTime":1298.2350000000001,"body":"sustainable production will also"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1298.2350000000001,"endTime":1300.095,"body":"benefit, uh, your top line results."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1300.3880000000001,"endTime":1305.236,"body":"I see, another opportunity in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1300.3880000000001,"endTime":1305.236,"body":"development of new business models."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1305.536,"endTime":1305.746,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1305.746,"endTime":1309.97,"body":"That, uh, companies doing a very"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1305.746,"endTime":1309.97,"body":"traditional product, they could also, jump"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1309.97,"endTime":1314.1960000000001,"body":"into this kind of new business endevour"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1309.97,"endTime":1314.1960000000001,"body":"to add, more sustainable offerings,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1314.1960000000001,"endTime":1318.083,"body":"whether it's, to enhance their product"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1314.1960000000001,"endTime":1318.083,"body":"offerings, to enhance their service"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1318.2730000000001,"endTime":1324.151,"body":"offerings, to get engaged into a greener"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1318.2730000000001,"endTime":1324.151,"body":"and sustainable business operation model."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1324.151,"endTime":1327.631,"body":"So there are also a lot of opportunities"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1324.151,"endTime":1327.631,"body":"in developing new businesses."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1328.261,"endTime":1328.5610000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1329.0030000000002,"endTime":1329.363,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1329.363,"endTime":1329.7830000000001,"body":"Very good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1329.933,"endTime":1330.2930000000001,"body":"Very good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1330.69,"endTime":1335.2350000000001,"body":"What kind of challenges are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1330.69,"endTime":1335.2350000000001,"body":"lying ahead because we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1335.2350000000001,"endTime":1336.615,"body":"said the plans are ambitious."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1336.615,"endTime":1339.255,"body":"Although Bloomberg seems to think they're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1336.615,"endTime":1339.255,"body":"not ambitious enough, given they're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1339.255,"endTime":1342.645,"body":"going to meet their 2030 aims in 2025."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1343.185,"endTime":1349.9950000000001,"body":"But to get to 2030 to get to further"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1343.185,"endTime":1349.9950000000001,"body":"on to 2060, what kind of challenges"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1350.0,"endTime":1354.525,"body":"are lying ahead for China and the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1350.0,"endTime":1354.525,"body":"organizations in China, the politics"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1354.525,"endTime":1359.058,"body":"in China, people working in China, what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1354.525,"endTime":1359.058,"body":"kind of, what are the big roadblocks."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1359.5910000000001,"endTime":1363.0410000000002,"body":"I would say on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1359.5910000000001,"endTime":1363.0410000000002,"body":"macro level, that this indeed"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1363.511,"endTime":1367.374,"body":"further defining, implementation"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1363.511,"endTime":1367.374,"body":"guidelines, implementation rules."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1367.824,"endTime":1371.739,"body":"Certainly, startup financing, by"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1367.824,"endTime":1371.739,"body":"the government is also important."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1371.739,"endTime":1373.779,"body":"And also monitoring is important."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1373.8990000000001,"endTime":1377.943,"body":"Cause you can make the rules, but you need"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1373.8990000000001,"endTime":1377.943,"body":"to make sure that these are implemented"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1377.943,"endTime":1382.554,"body":"and China is a big country which is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1377.943,"endTime":1382.554,"body":"difficult to monitor, but again, also"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1382.554,"endTime":1384.403,"body":"here, big improvements have been made."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1384.403,"endTime":1389.528,"body":"But what I would say more on this, on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1384.403,"endTime":1389.528,"body":"the company level challenges I see, here,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1389.528,"endTime":1393.728,"body":"and of course, having a more sustainable"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1389.528,"endTime":1393.728,"body":"manufacturing process, cost money."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1393.788,"endTime":1393.998,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1394.238,"endTime":1396.257,"body":"This cost in investment dependent."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1396.257,"endTime":1400.63,"body":"So it would probably, take some"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1396.257,"endTime":1400.63,"body":"commitment from the companies to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1400.63,"endTime":1405.121,"body":"invest first then of course, maybe"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1400.63,"endTime":1405.121,"body":"a lack of technical understanding."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1405.121,"endTime":1407.031,"body":"Of course it's you can say easier."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1407.401,"endTime":1410.951,"body":"We shift from coal to gas, and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1407.401,"endTime":1410.951,"body":"from gas to uh solar or to wind"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1410.951,"endTime":1414.5130000000001,"body":"but it’s also requires a certain"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1410.951,"endTime":1414.5130000000001,"body":"technical understanding how to get it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1414.5130000000001,"endTime":1416.2930000000001,"body":"implemented and how to get it operated."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1417.1860000000001,"endTime":1421.236,"body":"This is certainly, I would say"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1417.1860000000001,"endTime":1421.236,"body":"the more operational challenges"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1421.4460000000001,"endTime":1422.7060000000001,"body":"to really make that happen."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1422.796,"endTime":1425.7060000000001,"body":"Uh, I mentioned before everyone"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1422.796,"endTime":1425.7060000000001,"body":"was talking about climate change,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1425.846,"endTime":1431.28,"body":"sustainability, but really to get it, done"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1425.846,"endTime":1431.28,"body":"this is, this is, this is a challenge."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1431.28,"endTime":1435.24,"body":"Starting also from getting a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1431.28,"endTime":1435.24,"body":"clear understanding where do I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1435.24,"endTime":1437.19,"body":"stand in terms of carbon emission?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1437.3700000000001,"endTime":1439.92,"body":"A lot of companies ask this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1437.3700000000001,"endTime":1439.92,"body":"question at the moment."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1439.92,"endTime":1445.0900000000001,"body":"So this is of course, also interesting,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1439.92,"endTime":1445.0900000000001,"body":"for us as consultants who support"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1445.0900000000001,"endTime":1450.746,"body":"them based on that also to define, a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1445.0900000000001,"endTime":1450.746,"body":"net zero, roadmap for the future, but"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1450.806,"endTime":1454.316,"body":"getting it also implemented getting"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1450.806,"endTime":1454.316,"body":"all stakeholders in, there's certainly"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1454.316,"endTime":1456.006,"body":"also an operational challenge ahead."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1457.056,"endTime":1457.4160000000002,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1458.146,"endTime":1459.151,"body":"Will China get there?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1459.951,"endTime":1463.3410000000001,"body":"Actually, yes, I'm very,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1459.951,"endTime":1463.3410000000001,"body":"convinced that they will get that within"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1463.3410000000001,"endTime":1465.881,"body":"the framework of, government regulations."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1466.931,"endTime":1469.781,"body":"That's a big push and you don't see that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1469.781,"endTime":1474.185,"body":"Of course, uh, you can see it either"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1469.781,"endTime":1474.185,"body":"way, but, in terms of climate change,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1474.905,"endTime":1479.405,"body":"that, government, framework and, push"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1474.905,"endTime":1479.405,"body":"of the government and monitoring,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1479.4950000000001,"endTime":1482.855,"body":"initiators of the government"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1479.4950000000001,"endTime":1482.855,"body":"certainly supports that target"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1483.7050000000002,"endTime":1483.905,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1484.145,"endTime":1490.89,"body":"Super, super given all that we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1484.145,"endTime":1490.89,"body":"talked about Daniel, is China a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1491.27,"endTime":1494.17,"body":"climate hero or a climate villian?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1494.5900000000001,"endTime":1495.231,"body":"Good question."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1496.721,"endTime":1501.5510000000002,"body":"I expected that, that question to come"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1496.721,"endTime":1501.5510000000002,"body":"Tom, to be honest, it's very difficult"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1501.5510000000002,"endTime":1505.8110000000001,"body":"to, to, I would say a little bit of both."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1506.681,"endTime":1509.411,"body":"I mention in the beginning where"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1506.681,"endTime":1509.411,"body":"China stands at the moment with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1509.411,"endTime":1515.048,"body":"carbon emission, also in terms of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1509.411,"endTime":1515.048,"body":"volume, in terms of, major ratios"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1515.6480000000001,"endTime":1519.75,"body":"that certainly something where I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1515.6480000000001,"endTime":1519.75,"body":"would say, yes, it's a climate sinner."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1520.595,"endTime":1522.815,"body":"But a good point is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1520.595,"endTime":1522.815,"body":"they have realized that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1522.815,"endTime":1526.575,"body":"They have, what I've elaborated before"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1522.815,"endTime":1526.575,"body":"they have initiated these programs."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1527.295,"endTime":1529.059,"body":"And, we talked about examples."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1529.179,"endTime":1533.259,"body":"So e-mobility, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1529.179,"endTime":1533.259,"body":"installation of renewable energy."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1533.559,"endTime":1536.039,"body":"This is certainly something"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1533.559,"endTime":1536.039,"body":"where I would say China is a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1536.279,"endTime":1537.769,"body":"forerunner or a global leader."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1538.736,"endTime":1543.146,"body":"Also, if you look, at, the share"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1538.736,"endTime":1543.146,"body":"economy, like, uh, share bikes,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1543.146,"endTime":1548.179,"body":"share cars, uh, share motor bikes,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1543.146,"endTime":1548.179,"body":"also, eCommerce, development, which"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1548.179,"endTime":1551.3890000000001,"body":"also certainly helps also to yeah."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1551.3890000000001,"endTime":1555.019,"body":"Decrease dependency on packaging,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1551.3890000000001,"endTime":1555.019,"body":"materials or transportation."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1555.259,"endTime":1559.086,"body":"So these are, I would say, some examples"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1555.259,"endTime":1559.086,"body":"where I would say China is playing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1559.086,"endTime":1560.6860000000001,"body":"here in the, in the first league."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1560.6860000000001,"endTime":1561.1660000000002,"body":"No, I think,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1561.366,"endTime":1561.636,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1561.636,"endTime":1563.856,"body":"Tremendous, tremendous, super."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1564.1860000000001,"endTime":1567.6660000000002,"body":"Daniel we're coming towards the end of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1564.1860000000001,"endTime":1567.6660000000002,"body":"the podcast now, is there any question"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1567.6660000000002,"endTime":1572.106,"body":"I haven't asked you that you wish I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1567.6660000000002,"endTime":1572.106,"body":"had, or any aspect of this that we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1572.106,"endTime":1575.1860000000001,"body":"not touched on, that you think it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1572.106,"endTime":1575.1860000000001,"body":"important for people to be aware of?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1575.1860000000001,"endTime":1577.959,"body":"No, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1575.1860000000001,"endTime":1577.959,"body":"think we are all good."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1578.469,"endTime":1579.8990000000001,"body":"I think with the last question."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1580.269,"endTime":1581.3790000000001,"body":"Uh, you asked me."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1581.769,"endTime":1584.7820000000002,"body":"I think that was the missing piece,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1581.769,"endTime":1584.7820000000002,"body":"was waiting for that question,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1586.192,"endTime":1588.279,"body":"but I guess, we covered it all."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1588.279,"endTime":1591.671,"body":"I mean, not all, but, in this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1588.279,"endTime":1591.671,"body":"kind of, framework, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1592.001,"endTime":1593.381,"body":"that should be fine from my side."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1593.846,"endTime":1594.2060000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1594.211,"endTime":1596.036,"body":"Super, super Daniel."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1596.0410000000002,"endTime":1601.736,"body":"If people want to know more about yourself"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1596.0410000000002,"endTime":1601.736,"body":"or about your company EAC or any of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1601.741,"endTime":1605.2160000000001,"body":"topics we discussed on the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1601.741,"endTime":1605.2160000000001,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1605.789,"endTime":1607.382,"body":"I guess it's,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1605.789,"endTime":1607.382,"body":"pretty straightforward."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1607.472,"endTime":1609.872,"body":"you can search my name,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1607.472,"endTime":1609.872,"body":"Daniel Berger on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1609.877,"endTime":1612.5720000000001,"body":"And, you can get further from there."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1612.632,"endTime":1616.316,"body":"The link and also the homepage,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1612.632,"endTime":1616.316,"body":"will be part of the, the podcast"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1616.316,"endTime":1617.606,"body":"information, I guess, Tom."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1617.756,"endTime":1620.191,"body":"So apart from that, that's all good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1620.521,"endTime":1620.8210000000001,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1620.8210000000001,"endTime":1623.3410000000001,"body":"Yeah, no, I'll have, I'll have links"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1620.8210000000001,"endTime":1623.3410000000001,"body":"to the company site and to your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1623.3410000000001,"endTime":1625.921,"body":"LinkedIn account in the show notes,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1623.3410000000001,"endTime":1625.921,"body":"so everyone will have access to them."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1626.3410000000001,"endTime":1627.661,"body":"Daniel, that's been really interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1627.661,"endTime":1629.491,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1627.661,"endTime":1629.491,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1630.391,"endTime":1631.261,"body":"And just all Myong."},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1631.266,"endTime":1633.3010000000002,"body":"Thanks for inviting me"},{"speaker":"Daniel Berger","startTime":1631.266,"endTime":1633.3010000000002,"body":"and having me today."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1634.31,"endTime":1636.05,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1634.31,"endTime":1636.05,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1636.41,"endTime":1637.49,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1638.18,"endTime":1641.72,"body":"If you'd like to know more about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1638.18,"endTime":1641.72,"body":"Climate 21, feel free to drop me an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1641.72,"endTime":1646.8200000000002,"body":"email to Tom dot Raftery @ sap.com or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1641.72,"endTime":1646.8200000000002,"body":"connect with me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1647.63,"endTime":1650.18,"body":"If you liked the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1647.63,"endTime":1650.18,"body":"forget to subscribe to it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1650.18,"endTime":1654.17,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1650.18,"endTime":1654.17,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1654.8300000000002,"endTime":1658.04,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1654.8300000000002,"endTime":1658.04,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1658.04,"endTime":1660.8600000000001,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1658.04,"endTime":1660.8600000000001,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1661.67,"endTime":1663.94,"body":"Thanks catch you all next time."}]}