{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":3.828,"endTime":6.888,"body":"Were basically"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":3.828,"endTime":6.888,"body":"predicting that the yearly solar"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":6.893,"endTime":10.698,"body":"additions wouldn't grow that fast,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":6.893,"endTime":10.698,"body":"more or less horizontal even."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":11.538,"endTime":12.858,"body":"And then you look at reality."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":12.888,"endTime":17.328,"body":"Year on year on year there's on"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":12.888,"endTime":17.328,"body":"average, over the last 30 years about"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":17.558,"endTime":21.838,"body":"an average of 50% growth and it's,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":17.558,"endTime":21.838,"body":"it's very seldom it gets below 30%."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":22.078,"endTime":26.188,"body":"So that's an incredibly fast"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":22.078,"endTime":26.188,"body":"exponential growth with lots of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":26.188,"endTime":29.278,"body":"extra power coming online every year"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":29.668,"endTime":31.828,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":29.668,"endTime":31.828,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.828,"endTime":33.148,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":33.388,"endTime":35.548,"body":"This is the climate 21 podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.788,"endTime":39.178,"body":"The number one podcast, showcasing best"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.788,"endTime":39.178,"body":"practices in climate emission reductions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":40.138,"endTime":41.988,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.628,"endTime":46.408,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.628,"endTime":46.408,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":46.528,"endTime":48.928,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.097,"endTime":51.577,"body":"Hi everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.577,"endTime":53.437,"body":"Welcome to the climate 21 podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.497,"endTime":57.827,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery and with me on the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.497,"endTime":57.827,"body":"show today, I have my special guest Auke."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":58.287,"endTime":61.977,"body":"Auke, welcome back to the podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":58.287,"endTime":61.977,"body":"you've been on before, but for people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.977,"endTime":65.287,"body":"who might have missed that episode,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.977,"endTime":65.287,"body":"would you like to introduce yourself?."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":66.04,"endTime":69.67,"body":"Yeah, I'm basically,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":66.04,"endTime":69.67,"body":"uh, research at, uh,  Eindhoven"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":69.71,"endTime":70.97,"body":"University of Technology."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":71.345,"endTime":73.775,"body":"And I have two research topics."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":73.775,"endTime":78.665,"body":"One, my personal expertise is electric"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":73.775,"endTime":78.665,"body":"vehicles, electric trucks, and the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":78.665,"endTime":83.195,"body":"topic that I'm researching mostly,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":78.665,"endTime":83.195,"body":"and I'm leading a large, uh, research"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":83.195,"endTime":88.715,"body":"group in is how do we transition from"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":83.195,"endTime":88.715,"body":"fossil fuels to renewable energy?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":88.72,"endTime":93.125,"body":"And, and how you do you model that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":88.72,"endTime":93.125,"body":"and how do you get, uh, some clear,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":93.13,"endTime":97.19,"body":"clear picture of what the future might"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":93.13,"endTime":97.19,"body":"look like if we chose that route."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":97.464,"endTime":97.864,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":97.884,"endTime":102.207,"body":"And this is absolutely perfect because"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":97.884,"endTime":102.207,"body":"the last time we were on this podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.207,"endTime":103.827,"body":"we talked about electric vehicles."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":104.067,"endTime":107.397,"body":"So now we're looking at your other"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":104.067,"endTime":107.397,"body":"area of research, which is the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":107.397,"endTime":111.547,"body":"transition from fossil fuels to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":107.397,"endTime":111.547,"body":"fully renewable energy system."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":111.847,"endTime":112.267,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":113.277,"endTime":113.757,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":113.757,"endTime":115.017,"body":"You've got me all covered now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":116.577,"endTime":120.657,"body":"And th this, this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":116.577,"endTime":120.657,"body":"podcast came about because of a tweet,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":120.717,"endTime":122.727,"body":"which you posted back in August."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":122.727,"endTime":126.477,"body":"We're now at the start of, well, we're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":122.727,"endTime":126.477,"body":"the 8th of September we're recording this."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":126.477,"endTime":130.362,"body":"This'll get published mid September,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":126.477,"endTime":130.362,"body":"but it was you published about a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":130.362,"endTime":136.939,"body":"new study that came out, which says"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":130.362,"endTime":136.939,"body":"it actually is possible to get to a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":136.939,"endTime":139.699,"body":"hundred percent renewables by 2050."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":139.699,"endTime":143.959,"body":"Now there've been several studies"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":139.699,"endTime":143.959,"body":"over the years, which have said this."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":144.139,"endTime":149.549,"body":"So let's start off by explaining"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":144.139,"endTime":149.549,"body":"why this new study that you're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":149.549,"endTime":151.349,"body":"involved in is different."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":152.759,"endTime":152.969,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":152.969,"endTime":157.829,"body":"So basically what we saw in the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":152.969,"endTime":157.829,"body":"academic literature is that many"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":157.829,"endTime":162.059,"body":"people modeled, how to get to a"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":157.829,"endTime":162.059,"body":"hundred percent renewable future."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":162.269,"endTime":165.629,"body":"And by the way, I'm not saying it can"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":162.269,"endTime":165.629,"body":"only be done with a hundred percent"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":165.629,"endTime":169.349,"body":"renewables and that, I mean, without"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":165.629,"endTime":169.349,"body":"fossil fuels and without nuclear."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":170.024,"endTime":172.634,"body":"I'm just saying it can"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":170.024,"endTime":172.634,"body":"also be done that way."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":172.634,"endTime":174.134,"body":"And many people think that's good news."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":174.134,"endTime":177.734,"body":"I think it's good news, but it"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":174.134,"endTime":177.734,"body":"doesn't tell you that's the only way."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":177.974,"endTime":182.684,"body":"But anyway, there's a lot of studies that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":177.974,"endTime":182.684,"body":"came out over the year, sort of yeah."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":182.774,"endTime":185.954,"body":"Seeing this through and, and, and,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":182.774,"endTime":185.954,"body":"and showing that could be done for"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":185.959,"endTime":187.544,"body":"different areas and for the whole world."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":187.604,"endTime":191.234,"body":"And it never got that much attention"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":187.604,"endTime":191.234,"body":"and it was always a little bit."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":192.329,"endTime":197.969,"body":"Yeah, ignoring everybody's sort of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":192.329,"endTime":197.969,"body":"new serious people sort of knew that."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":197.969,"endTime":198.929,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":198.929,"endTime":200.129,"body":"Yeah, that's nice."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":200.129,"endTime":202.709,"body":"But it, it cannot really"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":200.129,"endTime":202.709,"body":"be true or something."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":203.369,"endTime":207.509,"body":"And now what we saw is that there were so"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":203.369,"endTime":207.509,"body":"many hundreds of studies that we thought"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":207.749,"endTime":213.989,"body":"if we just summarize all these studies,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":207.749,"endTime":213.989,"body":"then it sort of maybe comes into the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":214.319,"endTime":221.444,"body":"public consciousness more or less that,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":214.319,"endTime":221.444,"body":"whoa, this is not some fringe crazies who,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":221.444,"endTime":225.374,"body":"who are trying strange theories anymore."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":225.584,"endTime":226.694,"body":"This is now mainstream."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":226.874,"endTime":230.624,"body":"And what also helped by the way,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":226.874,"endTime":230.624,"body":"um, that just before this study was"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":230.624,"endTime":235.814,"body":"published, we had, of course, a new"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":230.624,"endTime":235.814,"body":"IPCC report, a AR six work group three."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":236.414,"endTime":240.164,"body":"And in that work group three,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":236.414,"endTime":240.164,"body":"one, the lead author also has"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":240.224,"endTime":242.444,"body":"31 studies mentioned at least."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":242.744,"endTime":248.374,"body":"So also that sort of, yeah, very"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":242.744,"endTime":248.374,"body":"dependable body of knowledge is"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":248.399,"endTime":251.759,"body":"now acknowledging, maybe not saying"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":248.399,"endTime":251.759,"body":"yes, this is the way forward."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":251.764,"endTime":254.999,"body":"The, the, the, they're hedging, their"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":251.764,"endTime":254.999,"body":"bets, so to speak, but they're saying,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":254.999,"endTime":256.969,"body":"yeah, this is now more or less mainstream."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":257.414,"endTime":258.134,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":258.134,"endTime":258.584,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":258.584,"endTime":264.194,"body":"But I mean, anytime someone says"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":258.584,"endTime":264.194,"body":"that it's possible to have a grid"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":264.194,"endTime":265.844,"body":"that's a hundred percent renewable."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":266.024,"endTime":269.594,"body":"You always get people standing up"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":266.024,"endTime":269.594,"body":"and saying, yeah, but what about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":269.594,"endTime":272.534,"body":"those weeks in winter when the wind"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":269.594,"endTime":272.534,"body":"isn't blowing, you need to have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":272.534,"endTime":275.624,"body":"storage for weeks and weeks and weeks"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":272.534,"endTime":275.624,"body":"just in case the wind doesn't blow."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":277.244,"endTime":280.004,"body":"And, and that's the,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":277.244,"endTime":280.004,"body":"the, of course there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":280.004,"endTime":286.501,"body":"people also really, are fans of the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":280.004,"endTime":286.501,"body":"alternative, uh, like, carbon caption"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":286.501,"endTime":289.741,"body":"storage with fossil fuels and nuclear."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":289.746,"endTime":293.836,"body":"Who, who say we really, really"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":289.746,"endTime":293.836,"body":"want to be indispensable."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":294.226,"endTime":297.916,"body":"So a lot of the, the, the, the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":294.226,"endTime":297.916,"body":"pushback, I think also comes"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":297.916,"endTime":299.116,"body":"from, from that direction."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":299.116,"endTime":302.206,"body":"When, when people say, well, you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":299.116,"endTime":302.206,"body":"are welcome, but not indispensable."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":302.206,"endTime":306.233,"body":"It's sort of weakened your argument a"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":302.206,"endTime":306.233,"body":"little bit, but, all these people who say,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":306.263,"endTime":310.103,"body":"what about we need four weeks of storage,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":306.263,"endTime":310.103,"body":"a recent study also came out and said,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":310.103,"endTime":312.623,"body":"four weeks of lithium ion battery storage."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":312.623,"endTime":313.043,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":313.048,"endTime":316.073,"body":"You needed a lot of, lot of,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":313.048,"endTime":316.073,"body":"uh, uh, resources for that."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":316.463,"endTime":319.523,"body":"But I, if you look at those studies,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":316.463,"endTime":319.523,"body":"they do it a little bit more cleverly."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":320.463,"endTime":320.813,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":321.383,"endTime":322.553,"body":"Let's talk about that."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":322.553,"endTime":326.333,"body":"Let's talk about how do you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":322.553,"endTime":326.333,"body":"get the, the electricity and,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":326.333,"endTime":328.913,"body":"and all the energy going on."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":328.943,"endTime":333.533,"body":"If you just have wind and solar, and"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":328.943,"endTime":333.533,"body":"it's a couple of dark weeks in winter."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":334.373,"endTime":338.813,"body":"Well, the first thing you do is in"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":334.373,"endTime":338.813,"body":"the summer, you store some extra."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":339.323,"endTime":341.633,"body":"So in the summer you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":339.323,"endTime":341.633,"body":"store some extra heat."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":342.413,"endTime":343.633,"body":"We call that sector coupling."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":343.973,"endTime":344.273,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":345.173,"endTime":347.423,"body":"By the way you can"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":345.173,"endTime":347.423,"body":"also store some, some heat in the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":347.423,"endTime":350.843,"body":"middle of a very hot summer day"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":347.423,"endTime":350.843,"body":"to, to use that night, for example."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":350.843,"endTime":356.207,"body":"So, so basically when you have"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":350.843,"endTime":356.207,"body":"excess, solar, sometimes wind,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":356.597,"endTime":357.767,"body":"you can also store this heat."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":357.767,"endTime":359.297,"body":"You call that sector coupling and."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":360.197,"endTime":363.047,"body":"Since a lot of energy is"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":360.197,"endTime":363.047,"body":"actually used for heat."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":363.377,"endTime":371.597,"body":"It's often quite cheap energy in a way"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":363.377,"endTime":371.597,"body":"it's low temperature, heat storage is"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":371.597,"endTime":375.677,"body":"sort of ubiquitous and kind of cheap,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":371.597,"endTime":375.677,"body":"but it's still very important here"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":375.677,"endTime":378.767,"body":"because we need lots of it and you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":375.677,"endTime":378.767,"body":"can create it with the wind and solar."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":379.267,"endTime":380.837,"body":"And then the next thing you do."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":381.467,"endTime":385.937,"body":"Is, um, you add some seasonal"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":381.467,"endTime":385.937,"body":"storage as we often call it."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":385.937,"endTime":389.327,"body":"And the, and the heat storage is, is an"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":385.937,"endTime":389.327,"body":"example of that, but a better example,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":389.327,"endTime":393.317,"body":"even a more advanced example is P two X."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":394.027,"endTime":396.977,"body":"For power to gas or power to anything."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":396.977,"endTime":402.407,"body":"So the P stands for power and the,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":396.977,"endTime":402.407,"body":"to the, the number two stands for,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":402.407,"endTime":405.197,"body":"for, uh, to, to, into something else."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":405.497,"endTime":409.067,"body":"And then the X is basically, we can,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":405.497,"endTime":409.067,"body":"we can do lots of things that we"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":409.072,"endTime":412.577,"body":"can turn power into, but what you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":409.072,"endTime":412.577,"body":"hear a lot about, for example, is"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":412.577,"endTime":416.627,"body":"green hydrogen doing hydrogen's most"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":412.577,"endTime":416.627,"body":"sort of famous example of P two X."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":417.167,"endTime":422.447,"body":"Now, if you in the summer, Take some"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":417.167,"endTime":422.447,"body":"excess solar or excess winds and, uh,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":422.477,"endTime":428.837,"body":"turn that into, um, uh, uh, uh, hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":422.477,"endTime":428.837,"body":"then all of a sudden you don't need those"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":428.837,"endTime":430.937,"body":"batteries anymore in winter or whatever."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":430.937,"endTime":436.097,"body":"You can just use these access or heat"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":430.937,"endTime":436.097,"body":"mix, uh, makes you use a lot less energy."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":436.487,"endTime":440.837,"body":"And then the hydrogen makes you turn"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":436.487,"endTime":440.837,"body":"on the, the lights a different way."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":441.872,"endTime":445.742,"body":"Then, of course we have all kind"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":441.872,"endTime":445.742,"body":"of things in margins, like hydro"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":445.742,"endTime":447.362,"body":"power that we can use for that."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":447.362,"endTime":451.172,"body":"So if we use hydro power, mainly"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":447.362,"endTime":451.172,"body":"as a battery, so to speak, we"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":451.172,"endTime":452.672,"body":"still use the same amount of it."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":453.122,"endTime":455.132,"body":"We just time it a little differently."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":455.132,"endTime":459.332,"body":"So to, to compliment solar"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":455.132,"endTime":459.332,"body":"and wind and which one I'm"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":459.337,"endTime":461.522,"body":"forgetting, of course biofuels."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":461.912,"endTime":464.792,"body":"So biofuels in our model are also welcome"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":464.912,"endTime":465.242,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":465.842,"endTime":470.162,"body":"and, uh, biofuels"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":465.842,"endTime":470.162,"body":"basically in our muscle models,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":470.162,"endTime":474.542,"body":"we say, be careful because you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":470.162,"endTime":474.542,"body":"need lots of, uh, area for that."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":474.932,"endTime":479.012,"body":"So it competes with nature and"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":474.932,"endTime":479.012,"body":"food, but some of it, if you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":479.012,"endTime":480.482,"body":"don't need too much of it is fine."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":480.482,"endTime":484.622,"body":"And actually what we are talking"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":480.482,"endTime":484.622,"body":"about now, If only 5% of something"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":484.682,"endTime":491.432,"body":"of, uh, the entire energy need, maybe"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":484.682,"endTime":491.432,"body":"10%, but probably 5% is available"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":491.437,"endTime":496.412,"body":"in some form of storage we can"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":491.437,"endTime":496.412,"body":"manage if we do it intelligently."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":496.802,"endTime":498.272,"body":"So that's sort of the solution."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":498.272,"endTime":503.312,"body":"And a lot of people still don't get"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":498.272,"endTime":503.312,"body":"that we have a whole suite, so to"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":503.312,"endTime":505.562,"body":"speak of, uh, storage solutions."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":506.057,"endTime":508.997,"body":"That can add to the wind and solar"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":506.057,"endTime":508.997,"body":"to balance this whole system out."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":509.196,"endTime":515.404,"body":"Of course on a daily basis, we just"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":509.196,"endTime":515.404,"body":"talked about, uh, weeks in winter, right."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":516.544,"endTime":520.204,"body":"But one of the biggest problems"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":516.544,"endTime":520.204,"body":"actually in the short term is that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":520.204,"endTime":525.934,"body":"you get high peaks in wind and solar"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":520.204,"endTime":525.934,"body":"that electricity grid can't manage."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":526.654,"endTime":529.234,"body":"And for that you need short term storage."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":530.014,"endTime":532.834,"body":"So, for example, batteries,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":530.014,"endTime":532.834,"body":"batteries are ideal for short"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":532.834,"endTime":534.064,"body":"term storage, super efficient."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":534.064,"endTime":539.164,"body":"If you pump them full and empty them"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":534.064,"endTime":539.164,"body":"out, again, just don't try to do"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":539.164,"endTime":542.164,"body":"batteries for more than a couple of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":539.164,"endTime":542.164,"body":"days because you're wasting resources."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":542.164,"endTime":545.674,"body":"It's not needed for something"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":542.164,"endTime":545.674,"body":"that you only use twice a year or"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":545.674,"endTime":548.884,"body":"something, but if you use something"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":545.674,"endTime":548.884,"body":"every day, batteries are perfect."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":549.514,"endTime":553.264,"body":"And those can be home batteries like,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":549.514,"endTime":553.264,"body":"like, uh, the Tesla power every know,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":553.504,"endTime":558.424,"body":"or, or, or probably some, some cheap"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":553.504,"endTime":558.424,"body":"alternatives getting to market now."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":558.754,"endTime":561.964,"body":"Our studies showed, if you do it"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":558.754,"endTime":561.964,"body":"with a neighborhood, it's probably"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":561.964,"endTime":564.634,"body":"a little bit more efficient and"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":561.964,"endTime":564.634,"body":"you can use it in, in more ways."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":564.634,"endTime":569.044,"body":"So I would say to everybody, look,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":564.634,"endTime":569.044,"body":"if you can do it in a neighborhood"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":569.164,"endTime":572.134,"body":"neighborhood way, neighborhood"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":569.164,"endTime":572.134,"body":"storage is something instead of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":572.139,"endTime":574.714,"body":"personal storage, but still, but cars."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":575.704,"endTime":577.054,"body":"Now we get back to my other hobby."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":577.954,"endTime":581.524,"body":"cars and cars are actually,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":577.954,"endTime":581.524,"body":"they have immense batteries."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":581.524,"endTime":584.764,"body":"If you look at it compared to what"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":581.524,"endTime":584.764,"body":"we need for daily storage needs."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":585.554,"endTime":590.929,"body":"If we can charge them up at the moments we"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":585.554,"endTime":590.929,"body":"have excess solar and wind or even better."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":590.929,"endTime":592.309,"body":"And I think this is really future."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":592.309,"endTime":596.359,"body":"Now that car batteries are becoming"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":592.309,"endTime":596.359,"body":"so long lasting even better if we"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":596.364,"endTime":601.757,"body":"can use them to sort of put power"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":596.364,"endTime":601.757,"body":"back into the grid at the moments"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":601.757,"endTime":603.977,"body":"when we need it and to suck it up."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":603.977,"endTime":607.477,"body":"So to speak from solar and winds at"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":603.977,"endTime":607.477,"body":"the moments when those are in excess."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":607.967,"endTime":611.447,"body":"That is basically a perfect"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":607.967,"endTime":611.447,"body":"means for daily storage."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":611.747,"endTime":616.91,"body":"So yes, it's a lot of inventing in a"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":611.747,"endTime":616.91,"body":"way it's a lot of, complex modeling."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":616.91,"endTime":620.0,"body":"So these models are also only come Ave."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":620.18,"endTime":622.88,"body":"Basically, these kind of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":620.18,"endTime":622.88,"body":"things could only be made."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":623.15,"endTime":625.7,"body":"It's very interesting to see"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":623.15,"endTime":625.7,"body":"that the first people who came"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":625.7,"endTime":627.53,"body":"up with this idea is in 1970s,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":628.175,"endTime":628.475,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":628.585,"endTime":630.56,"body":"could just, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":628.585,"endTime":630.56,"body":"but they could just do it on"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":630.56,"endTime":631.7,"body":"the, on the back of a napkin."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":631.7,"endTime":633.86,"body":"So to speak was very rough."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":634.22,"endTime":636.17,"body":"The computers simply weren't there."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":636.56,"endTime":638.9,"body":"To try out these complex scenarios."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":639.44,"endTime":645.2,"body":"And I think we see this sort of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":639.44,"endTime":645.2,"body":"kicking off in the two thousands and"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":645.2,"endTime":647.75,"body":"then still very, very marginally."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":648.08,"endTime":654.77,"body":"And it's only since I would say"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":648.08,"endTime":654.77,"body":"2010, 2014, that this whole idea"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":654.83,"endTime":658.22,"body":"has gained so much momentum and that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":654.83,"endTime":658.22,"body":"most studies has in poly published."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":658.46,"endTime":662.03,"body":"So we are sitting on something"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":658.46,"endTime":662.03,"body":"that most of, of our consciousness"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":662.27,"endTime":664.25,"body":"has not absorbed yet."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":664.34,"endTime":667.91,"body":"This is very cutting edge in that way,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":664.34,"endTime":667.91,"body":"because it takes years and years for"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":667.91,"endTime":673.04,"body":"cultural consciousness, for our common"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":667.91,"endTime":673.04,"body":"consciousness to sort of absorb this idea."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":673.31,"endTime":676.43,"body":"It's only the last eight or six"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":673.31,"endTime":676.43,"body":"report, for example, that sort"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":676.43,"endTime":678.59,"body":"of largely incorporates that."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":678.595,"endTime":681.47,"body":"And it also said by the way, first"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":678.595,"endTime":681.47,"body":"report also said solar and winds"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":681.47,"endTime":685.67,"body":"are going to be the workhorses"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":681.47,"endTime":685.67,"body":"of, uh, of the new energy system."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":685.67,"endTime":687.485,"body":"That's something that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":685.67,"endTime":687.485,"body":"we're very clear about."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":688.295,"endTime":690.62,"body":"The last one was still, oh my God."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":690.62,"endTime":691.1,"body":"Oh my God."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":691.1,"endTime":691.58,"body":"Where are going?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":691.58,"endTime":692.21,"body":"Get the energy."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":692.21,"endTime":696.59,"body":"Oh, we have to do BES, for example,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":692.21,"endTime":696.59,"body":"you know, uh, um, lots of biofuels,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":696.595,"endTime":700.49,"body":"two times the size of India maybe,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":696.595,"endTime":700.49,"body":"and then burn it and store it on the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":700.49,"endTime":702.02,"body":"ground because what else can we do?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":702.025,"endTime":703.19,"body":"But we have to do something."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":703.67,"endTime":706.07,"body":"And now we're saying,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":703.67,"endTime":706.07,"body":"Hey, solar, wind my God."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":706.07,"endTime":706.67,"body":"That's cheap."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":706.85,"endTime":707.63,"body":"It's really cheap."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":708.425,"endTime":708.785,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":708.785,"endTime":709.295,"body":"It's really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":709.64,"endTime":710.0,"body":"And getting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":710.0,"endTime":710.24,"body":"cheap."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":711.065,"endTime":712.775,"body":"and exactly all the time."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":712.835,"endTime":716.405,"body":"And whoa, there there's even"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":712.835,"endTime":716.405,"body":"lots of people now who say we can"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":716.405,"endTime":719.165,"body":"manage most of the peaks in the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":716.405,"endTime":719.165,"body":"dips we get with solar and wind."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":719.885,"endTime":721.475,"body":"Whoa, this is fantastic news."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":721.805,"endTime":724.535,"body":"At least that's how I read AR six."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":724.535,"endTime":730.725,"body":"They're still very, of course conservative"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":724.535,"endTime":730.725,"body":"and very worried, but there was"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":730.975,"endTime":733.16,"body":"loads of solutions in the last one."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":733.16,"endTime":735.98,"body":"Whereas there was just more or"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":733.16,"endTime":735.98,"body":"less blind panic, and we have"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":735.98,"endTime":737.9,"body":"to do something in the last one."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":738.11,"endTime":738.83,"body":"The way I read it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":739.09,"endTime":739.75,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":739.78,"endTime":742.409,"body":"And when you say power to heat."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":742.829,"endTime":744.239,"body":"How is that done?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":744.329,"endTime":750.719,"body":"Is it, I mean, are we doing it in hot"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":744.329,"endTime":750.719,"body":"water, in molten salt in something"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":750.719,"endTime":754.859,"body":"else like bricks or something"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":750.719,"endTime":754.859,"body":"like that using radiative heat"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":754.949,"endTime":757.079,"body":"or how are we storing it in heat?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":758.056,"endTime":758.956,"body":"Good question."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":759.503,"endTime":763.853,"body":"to be quite honest at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":759.503,"endTime":763.853,"body":"usually in water, hot water, we have"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":763.853,"endTime":768.413,"body":"some phase change materials that, that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":763.853,"endTime":768.413,"body":"look to be, even more, uh, let's say"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":768.413,"endTime":775.463,"body":"space, efficient than water, but actually"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":768.413,"endTime":775.463,"body":"heating up water takes a lot of energy."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":775.463,"endTime":780.613,"body":"Water is a very good way to store,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":775.463,"endTime":780.613,"body":"heat differences, better than oil,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":780.613,"endTime":782.053,"body":"better than lots of other materials."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":782.473,"endTime":784.693,"body":"So actually it's not that bad."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":784.693,"endTime":791.04,"body":"So I'm not really an expert in all the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":784.693,"endTime":791.04,"body":"advanced technologies, phase change"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":791.04,"endTime":793.5,"body":"materials, et cetera, that are out there."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":793.53,"endTime":796.65,"body":"Some neighbors of mine, uh,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":793.53,"endTime":796.65,"body":"at the university make them."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":796.65,"endTime":800.1,"body":"So I know a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":796.65,"endTime":800.1,"body":"them, but lo largely we see,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":800.128,"endTime":802.583,"body":"basically very big tons of water."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":803.363,"endTime":805.733,"body":"And actually the advantage"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":803.363,"endTime":805.733,"body":"here is what, what we."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":806.408,"endTime":813.143,"body":"Uh, much, much too little is to use big"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":806.408,"endTime":813.143,"body":"heat, uh, basically big buckets of, of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":813.143,"endTime":818.063,"body":"water because the larger you make heat"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":813.143,"endTime":818.063,"body":"storage, the more efficient it becomes"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":818.183,"endTime":823.523,"body":"basically, when you look at a bucket,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":818.183,"endTime":823.523,"body":"the, the price is more or less the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":823.523,"endTime":827.873,"body":"surface area, that, that the thing that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":823.523,"endTime":827.873,"body":"puts the water keeps the water in place."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":827.873,"endTime":828.523,"body":"So speak."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":829.033,"endTime":830.753,"body":"That's also the part you have to insulate."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":831.263,"endTime":834.683,"body":"And when the bucket gets bigger and"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":831.263,"endTime":834.683,"body":"bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":835.283,"endTime":837.893,"body":"the surface area increases to the third."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":837.983,"endTime":842.723,"body":"But yeah, to the second power basically,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":837.983,"endTime":842.723,"body":"and the content to the third power."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":843.323,"endTime":844.823,"body":"So the bigger it becomes,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":845.858,"endTime":846.128,"body":"the more"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":846.238,"endTime":848.943,"body":"cheaper it becomes"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":846.238,"endTime":848.943,"body":"and also the longer it stays hot"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":848.963,"endTime":851.813,"body":"so that's also something for"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":848.963,"endTime":851.813,"body":"neighborhood storage is perfect."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":852.083,"endTime":853.273,"body":"And then how do we heat it?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":854.443,"endTime":857.363,"body":"First we use some sort of, heat pumps."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":857.363,"endTime":860.723,"body":"So the best things basically to"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":857.363,"endTime":860.723,"body":"have heat pumps that can go, can be"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":860.723,"endTime":865.193,"body":"used to heat your house or heat your"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":860.723,"endTime":865.193,"body":"neighborhood in winter, but it can"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":865.193,"endTime":869.783,"body":"also be used, same heat pumps to heat,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":865.193,"endTime":869.783,"body":"basically your heat storage in summer."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":870.353,"endTime":872.983,"body":"And it basically means that for"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":870.353,"endTime":872.983,"body":"every kilowatt hour of solar"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":873.003,"endTime":876.153,"body":"you, uh, you, you put in, for"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":873.003,"endTime":876.153,"body":"example, you get three or four."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":877.083,"endTime":881.703,"body":"Kilo, what hours of heat in, in a heat"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":877.083,"endTime":881.703,"body":"system, it's a very heat pumps are very"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":881.703,"endTime":887.193,"body":"efficient, but if solar is really going"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":881.703,"endTime":887.193,"body":"through a roof, for example, and wind"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":887.193,"endTime":891.333,"body":"is also blowing and you're like, oh my"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":887.193,"endTime":891.333,"body":"God, where do I put all this energy?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":891.333,"endTime":896.653,"body":"And your heat pumps would be"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":891.333,"endTime":896.653,"body":"ridiculously oversized to basically."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":897.213,"endTime":902.103,"body":"Put all that away then still it's"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":897.213,"endTime":902.103,"body":"better not to curtail because simply"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":902.103,"endTime":906.688,"body":"using that power as heat is, uh,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":902.103,"endTime":906.688,"body":"when you use, uh, resistance wire?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":907.198,"endTime":907.828,"body":"Uh,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":907.918,"endTime":910.838,"body":"like a, just like a kettle,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":907.918,"endTime":910.838,"body":"the same way the kettle heats water"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":910.868,"endTime":911.318,"body":"exactly."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":911.338,"endTime":911.728,"body":"exactly."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":911.778,"endTime":913.228,"body":"Costs absolutely nothing."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":914.128,"endTime":917.978,"body":"It's it's it's ridiculously cheap,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":914.128,"endTime":917.978,"body":"especially for bigger installations."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":918.943,"endTime":922.963,"body":"At least it gives you, uh, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":918.943,"endTime":922.963,"body":"give you this three times multiplication"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":922.963,"endTime":928.693,"body":"factor on the heating, but it gives you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":922.963,"endTime":928.693,"body":"a very good way to basically dump your"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":928.693,"endTime":931.183,"body":"excess solar and wind in the form of heat."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":931.423,"endTime":934.963,"body":"So this is one of the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":931.423,"endTime":934.963,"body":"main things I would say."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":935.023,"endTime":939.883,"body":"Um, uh, so what you first do of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":935.023,"endTime":939.883,"body":"course is insulation, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":939.883,"endTime":942.703,"body":"So the, the, the, the, the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":939.883,"endTime":942.703,"body":"simple efficiency gain, so to."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":943.213,"endTime":946.333,"body":"In all these systems, that plan for a"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":943.213,"endTime":946.333,"body":"hundred percent renewable system, they"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":946.333,"endTime":951.403,"body":"say, we tried that first, but lots"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":946.333,"endTime":951.403,"body":"of old houses, there's lots of places"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":951.403,"endTime":955.666,"body":"you don't get to right away, because"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":951.403,"endTime":955.666,"body":"actually, making the whole, build"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":955.666,"endTime":959.296,"body":"environment more sustainable takes"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":955.666,"endTime":959.296,"body":"a lot of hands, takes a lot of time."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":959.296,"endTime":963.136,"body":"So actually it goes slower than"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":959.296,"endTime":963.136,"body":"electrifying everything, for example."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":963.826,"endTime":967.336,"body":"So in the meantime you have all"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":963.826,"endTime":967.336,"body":"these other solutions and, and, and"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":967.486,"endTime":969.096,"body":"power to heat is one of the most."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":969.856,"endTime":973.996,"body":"Important one also has a bridge technology"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":969.856,"endTime":973.996,"body":"to, uh, get us there when we have access"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":973.996,"endTime":978.616,"body":"solar or wind and don't have all the other"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":973.996,"endTime":978.616,"body":"efficiency measures, et cetera in place."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":979.501,"endTime":980.991,"body":"And it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":979.501,"endTime":980.991,"body":"sounds amazingly low tech."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":981.581,"endTime":981.661,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":981.661,"endTime":982.141,"body":"mean,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":982.396,"endTime":983.056,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":983.221,"endTime":986.611,"body":"got an immersion heater"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":983.221,"endTime":986.611,"body":"in the room here beside me that we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":986.616,"endTime":991.381,"body":"use to heat our water when it's not"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":986.616,"endTime":991.381,"body":"sunny because we've, we've panels"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":991.381,"endTime":992.731,"body":"on the roof to heat the water."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":993.133,"endTime":997.028,"body":"So just, just using the heat from"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":993.133,"endTime":997.028,"body":"the sun heats, most of the water,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":997.028,"endTime":999.188,"body":"we've a 300 liter tank on the roof."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":999.818,"endTime":1001.678,"body":"That's, that's heated up by those panels."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1001.948,"endTime":1005.728,"body":"And then we've a, an, an, an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1001.948,"endTime":1005.728,"body":"immersion heater in, in there"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1005.728,"endTime":1007.938,"body":"for 80 liters that pulls."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1008.398,"endTime":1011.288,"body":"You know, it pulls off the solar"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1008.398,"endTime":1011.288,"body":"panels cause we've photovoltaic"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1011.308,"endTime":1013.258,"body":"panels as well, pulls off those."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1013.408,"endTime":1016.291,"body":"And then if there's no sun,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1013.408,"endTime":1016.291,"body":"it'll pull off the grid."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1016.296,"endTime":1019.256,"body":"But our provider, our electricity"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1016.296,"endTime":1019.256,"body":"provider is a hundred percent renewable."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1019.256,"endTime":1023.726,"body":"So our water system is as about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1019.256,"endTime":1023.726,"body":"as low carbon as you can get."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1024.671,"endTime":1025.391,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1025.391,"endTime":1026.861,"body":"Nice to be quite honest."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1027.506,"endTime":1029.726,"body":"What you're doing is more"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1027.506,"endTime":1029.726,"body":"efficient than what I'm doing."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1030.086,"endTime":1031.586,"body":"I'm using all solar panels."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1031.586,"endTime":1033.476,"body":"My whole roof is solar panels."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1033.536,"endTime":1036.626,"body":"I, I just build it in such a"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1033.536,"endTime":1036.626,"body":"way that leaks, if you take"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1036.626,"endTime":1037.616,"body":"it, the solar panels, right."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1037.616,"endTime":1039.056,"body":"It's, it's simply solar panels."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1040.106,"endTime":1042.656,"body":"And at the moment, that is a very price."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1043.496,"endTime":1043.736,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1043.796,"endTime":1047.066,"body":"From a price point perspective, an"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1043.796,"endTime":1047.066,"body":"interesting way to set it up, lots of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1047.066,"endTime":1050.846,"body":"solar panels, but what you are doing"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1047.066,"endTime":1050.846,"body":"is more efficient per square meter."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1050.846,"endTime":1053.816,"body":"If you, if you use a vacuum tubes or"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1050.846,"endTime":1053.816,"body":"whatever you have on your, on your"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1053.821,"endTime":1056.366,"body":"roof to capture the, the heat directly."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1056.966,"endTime":1059.516,"body":"That is per square meter more efficient."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1060.566,"endTime":1065.666,"body":"So there's also the, the, the interesting"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1060.566,"endTime":1065.666,"body":"thing to see if you dive into it on"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1065.666,"endTime":1067.376,"body":"the one hand, it's super complex."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1067.376,"endTime":1071.336,"body":"I can understand people"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1067.376,"endTime":1071.336,"body":"saying how can this ever work?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1071.336,"endTime":1075.326,"body":"And, and, and, and some people say, I,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1071.336,"endTime":1075.326,"body":"I like a coal power fire power plant,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1075.326,"endTime":1081.266,"body":"and we'll just stick the CO2 underground"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1075.326,"endTime":1081.266,"body":"because I understand this more coal,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1081.266,"endTime":1086.096,"body":"less coal means more, more energy, less"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1081.266,"endTime":1086.096,"body":"energy, and nuclear is basically the same."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1086.096,"endTime":1089.876,"body":"So it's conceptually,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1086.096,"endTime":1089.876,"body":"uh, a much easier system."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1089.876,"endTime":1094.166,"body":"What we are, what we are"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1089.876,"endTime":1094.166,"body":"proposing is much more complex"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1094.301,"endTime":1094.811,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1094.851,"endTime":1095.291,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1095.876,"endTime":1099.446,"body":"But on the other hand, the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1095.876,"endTime":1099.446,"body":"nice thing of such complex systems is that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1099.446,"endTime":1101.936,"body":"there's tons of ways to achieve your goal."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1102.463,"endTime":1106.813,"body":"There's so many different storage"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1102.463,"endTime":1106.813,"body":"technologies, so many different solar,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1106.846,"endTime":1110.386,"body":"energy production, uh, technologies,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1106.846,"endTime":1110.386,"body":"different solar cells, different ways"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1110.386,"endTime":1113.896,"body":"to use heat to, to solar, into heat,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1110.386,"endTime":1113.896,"body":"and then electricity or whatever."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1114.316,"endTime":1118.996,"body":"So actually it's a whole suite of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1114.316,"endTime":1118.996,"body":"possible solutions and what those"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1118.996,"endTime":1122.986,"body":"studies show that we have collected"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1118.996,"endTime":1122.986,"body":"more or less, and that we, uh, tried to"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1122.986,"endTime":1126.016,"body":"present and put into a, to, to in window."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1126.016,"endTime":1128.476,"body":"So to speak, to say,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1126.016,"endTime":1128.476,"body":"look, look it's there."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1128.476,"endTime":1131.026,"body":"So we don't have done"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1128.476,"endTime":1131.026,"body":"anything new other than."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1131.581,"endTime":1136.051,"body":"Just present all the research in"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1131.581,"endTime":1136.051,"body":"a, we hope very convincing way."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1136.471,"endTime":1140.431,"body":"And one of the things we show is there's"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1136.471,"endTime":1140.431,"body":"so many different ways to do this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1140.506,"endTime":1140.896,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1141.076,"endTime":1141.436,"body":"Mm"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1141.511,"endTime":1141.961,"body":"worry."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1142.291,"endTime":1143.011,"body":"We'll get there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1143.836,"endTime":1145.696,"body":"And what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1143.836,"endTime":1145.696,"body":"about people who say."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1146.446,"endTime":1150.526,"body":"All these batteries for cars and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1146.446,"endTime":1150.526,"body":"for storage, for grids and all that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1150.526,"endTime":1154.666,"body":"are gonna require far more resources"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1150.526,"endTime":1154.666,"body":"than we have on the entire planet."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1156.571,"endTime":1159.001,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1156.571,"endTime":1159.001,"body":"that's now basically the argument"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1186.441,"endTime":1187.731,"body":"I'm mostly confronted with."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1187.731,"endTime":1192.358,"body":"I think the, the, most of humanity is"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1187.731,"endTime":1192.358,"body":"still in the, in the face uh, um, how do"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1192.358,"endTime":1197.788,"body":"we do that in winter with no solar wind,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1192.358,"endTime":1197.788,"body":"but, but yeah, the hardcore resistance"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1197.7930000000001,"endTime":1200.728,"body":"right now comes from resources and, yeah."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1201.583,"endTime":1205.7530000000002,"body":"What you basically see there is that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1201.583,"endTime":1205.7530000000002,"body":"the stupid things to do it ways to"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1205.7530000000002,"endTime":1207.7630000000001,"body":"do it and the smart ways to do it."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1208.453,"endTime":1212.713,"body":"And if you do it in stupid way, you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1208.453,"endTime":1212.713,"body":"require weeks and weeks and weeks"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1212.713,"endTime":1217.117,"body":"of batteries worldwide for God knows"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1212.713,"endTime":1217.117,"body":"what, how, how many energy, needs."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1217.507,"endTime":1222.097,"body":"And of course you want, uh, if you do"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1217.507,"endTime":1222.097,"body":"it stupidly those batteries to, to use"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1222.097,"endTime":1226.4170000000001,"body":"all the resources that we now use for"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1222.097,"endTime":1226.4170000000001,"body":"our first generation battery in cars."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1226.977,"endTime":1227.777,"body":"And then you say."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1228.357,"endTime":1229.007,"body":"Oh my God."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1229.027,"endTime":1232.4170000000001,"body":"If we needed enough car batteries"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1229.027,"endTime":1232.4170000000001,"body":"to power the world for four"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1232.4170000000001,"endTime":1233.767,"body":"weeks, we would have a problem."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1234.337,"endTime":1235.057,"body":"And it's true."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1235.627,"endTime":1236.227,"body":"It's true."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1236.737,"endTime":1239.587,"body":"There's, there's basically"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1236.737,"endTime":1239.587,"body":"ways to, to, to go around."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1239.592,"endTime":1244.087,"body":"Even that, for example, lithium has always"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1239.592,"endTime":1244.087,"body":"mentioned, and, uh, there's a professor"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1244.092,"endTime":1247.777,"body":"who works with, uh, four weeks of lithium"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1244.092,"endTime":1247.777,"body":"batteries, uh, for, for the world."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1247.777,"endTime":1249.817,"body":"So to speak for all storage in the world."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1249.997,"endTime":1252.127,"body":"And he says, well, lithium"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1249.997,"endTime":1252.127,"body":"will become a big problem."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1252.862,"endTime":1253.642,"body":"And he's right."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1254.122,"endTime":1257.362,"body":"If you do it his way, which you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1254.122,"endTime":1257.362,"body":"shouldn't, if you do it my way, so to"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1257.362,"endTime":1260.902,"body":"speak, or the other authors in this"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1257.362,"endTime":1260.902,"body":"study, you need about 10 times less."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1260.902,"endTime":1262.162,"body":"And then, lithium is fine."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1262.342,"endTime":1266.7820000000002,"body":"But even if you need it 10 times"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1262.342,"endTime":1266.7820000000002,"body":"more lithium there's 5,000 times more"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1266.7820000000002,"endTime":1270.472,"body":"lithium in the ocean, then we know"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1266.7820000000002,"endTime":1270.472,"body":"how to find at currently at land."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1270.922,"endTime":1273.622,"body":"That's also something, by the way, E"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1270.922,"endTime":1273.622,"body":"lithium a resource have always been"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1273.622,"endTime":1275.0620000000001,"body":"about a hundred years in the future."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1276.112,"endTime":1278.452,"body":"And this always more or"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1276.112,"endTime":1278.452,"body":"less how much it's been."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1278.452,"endTime":1279.952,"body":"So right now we're also."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1280.9270000000001,"endTime":1283.597,"body":"I'm not sure at the moment"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1280.9270000000001,"endTime":1283.597,"body":"to be quite honest, because I"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1283.597,"endTime":1284.857,"body":"look into this one year ago."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1284.857,"endTime":1288.337,"body":"So, but basically when we go looking"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1284.857,"endTime":1288.337,"body":"for it, we find more that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1288.337,"endTime":1292.209,"body":"basically the story here because it's"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1288.337,"endTime":1292.209,"body":"loads of, of lithium in, in, in, in,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1292.507,"endTime":1296.864,"body":"but we know not enough to find the core"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1292.507,"endTime":1296.864,"body":"to, to make like, 10 billion cars or"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1296.8690000000001,"endTime":1300.914,"body":"something, or, or, or maybe 3 billion"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1296.8690000000001,"endTime":1300.914,"body":"cars and lots of, uh, loss station."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1301.034,"endTime":1302.594,"body":"There is not really a problem there."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1303.164,"endTime":1305.4740000000002,"body":"And there's 5,000 times more in the ocean."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1306.569,"endTime":1311.97,"body":"Resources, what you always see when"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1306.569,"endTime":1311.97,"body":"you look critically is, that production"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1311.97,"endTime":1314.6100000000001,"body":"ramp up is sometimes a serious problem"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1315.38,"endTime":1315.381,"body":"yep."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1315.63,"endTime":1319.23,"body":"because we need it now"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1315.63,"endTime":1319.23,"body":"sometimes, or at least we need it."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1319.23,"endTime":1322.68,"body":"For example, in three or four"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1319.23,"endTime":1322.68,"body":"years, and building a new mind can"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1322.68,"endTime":1325.6200000000001,"body":"easily take usually seven years."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1326.0700000000002,"endTime":1330.72,"body":"Although if you really want to pay"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1326.0700000000002,"endTime":1330.72,"body":"double price, I'm pretty sure a mine"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1330.72,"endTime":1332.46,"body":"can be arranged more quickly for you."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1333.375,"endTime":1336.7050000000002,"body":"In many cases, but usually now"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1333.375,"endTime":1336.7050000000002,"body":"it takes like seven or even"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1336.7050000000002,"endTime":1338.4450000000002,"body":"10 years to open new mind."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1339.015,"endTime":1342.045,"body":"And then we are looking at, oh my"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1339.015,"endTime":1342.045,"body":"God, are we going to ramp up in time?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1342.05,"endTime":1346.997,"body":"So that is a, very serious, thing we"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1342.05,"endTime":1346.997,"body":"have to look at, uh, also globally,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1347.357,"endTime":1350.1470000000002,"body":"where do we get our resources, by the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1347.357,"endTime":1350.1470000000002,"body":"way, one thing I, I want to mention"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1350.1470000000002,"endTime":1355.367,"body":"here is that lots of people go, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1350.1470000000002,"endTime":1355.367,"body":"but we have to destroy all of nature."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1355.892,"endTime":1358.142,"body":"To mine, all these resources."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1358.832,"endTime":1364.382,"body":"And, uh, yeah, if you put a picture of a,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1358.832,"endTime":1364.382,"body":"of a mine next to it, it never looks nice."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1364.8020000000001,"endTime":1366.152,"body":"Mine never looks nice."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1366.1570000000002,"endTime":1369.0620000000001,"body":"Uh, uh, uh, green pastures"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1366.1570000000002,"endTime":1369.0620000000001,"body":"always look better."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1369.0620000000001,"endTime":1371.7920000000001,"body":"And then you say, look,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1369.0620000000001,"endTime":1371.7920000000001,"body":"agriculture biofuels."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1371.7920000000001,"endTime":1372.5720000000001,"body":"That's nice."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1372.842,"endTime":1374.462,"body":"But those minds look at those minds."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1374.462,"endTime":1381.392,"body":"They're really ugly, but I, uh, uh, read"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1374.462,"endTime":1381.392,"body":"a nature article recently who said that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1381.3970000000002,"endTime":1382.7720000000002,"body":"basically what they didn't tell you?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1383.0720000000001,"endTime":1386.732,"body":"They said, oh my, well, there were"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1383.0720000000001,"endTime":1386.732,"body":"lots of problems, but if you, um,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1386.8220000000001,"endTime":1391.622,"body":"uh, looked at how much area actually"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1386.8220000000001,"endTime":1391.622,"body":"is sort of contaminated is, is sort"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1391.627,"endTime":1393.7920000000001,"body":"of taken away from nature by mines."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1394.202,"endTime":1399.002,"body":"If I remember correctly, 0.05%"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1394.202,"endTime":1399.002,"body":"of the whole land surface, and"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1399.002,"endTime":1401.222,"body":"we use about 50% for agriculture."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1401.642,"endTime":1405.662,"body":"So really if you care about the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1401.642,"endTime":1405.662,"body":"bees and the birds, birds, um, give"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1405.662,"endTime":1411.332,"body":"some, some, some, some nature back"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1405.662,"endTime":1411.332,"body":"and don't worry about the 0.05%."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1411.337,"endTime":1412.832,"body":"That's maybe becoming in the future."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1412.837,"endTime":1416.372,"body":"If we have this short"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1412.837,"endTime":1416.372,"body":"ramp up phase zero points."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1417.527,"endTime":1421.457,"body":"1% or something of land surface in mining."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1421.487,"endTime":1422.987,"body":"It it's really a drop in the bucket."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1422.987,"endTime":1425.627,"body":"Of course we shouldn't do"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1422.987,"endTime":1425.627,"body":"it in range, forest, cetera."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1425.627,"endTime":1426.857,"body":"We just should do it sustainably."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1426.857,"endTime":1427.6670000000001,"body":"So it's very good."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1427.672,"endTime":1428.807,"body":"There's a lots of focus on it."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1428.987,"endTime":1432.317,"body":"And of course, child labor,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1428.987,"endTime":1432.317,"body":"et cetera, are break problems."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1432.497,"endTime":1436.3970000000002,"body":"Can I mention there by the way that a"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1432.497,"endTime":1436.3970000000002,"body":"child labor has been a problem in cobalts"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1436.757,"endTime":1441.227,"body":"for ages, and only now that we make cries"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1436.757,"endTime":1441.227,"body":"out of them, people are worried about"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1441.227,"endTime":1444.287,"body":"it, which I think is a good thing, but."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1444.4370000000001,"endTime":1444.707,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1444.767,"endTime":1445.037,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1445.087,"endTime":1445.4070000000002,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1445.4270000000001,"endTime":1447.047,"body":"Let's not be"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1445.4270000000001,"endTime":1447.047,"body":"too hypocritical about it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1447.837,"endTime":1448.867,"body":"So another question."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1450.2720000000002,"endTime":1451.0520000000001,"body":"Digging into that one."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1451.0520000000001,"endTime":1457.742,"body":"Just a little bit, that 0.05% of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1451.0520000000001,"endTime":1457.742,"body":"land that's used currently for mines."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1458.5220000000002,"endTime":1460.652,"body":"How much of that is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1458.5220000000002,"endTime":1460.652,"body":"mining for fossil fuels?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1462.077,"endTime":1463.6970000000001,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1462.077,"endTime":1463.6970000000001,"body":"actually most of it is coal"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1465.0620000000001,"endTime":1469.832,"body":"so if we shut down"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1465.0620000000001,"endTime":1469.832,"body":"that zero and convert that 0.05."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1470.7920000000001,"endTime":1475.352,"body":"Away from fossil fuels and into lithium,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1470.7920000000001,"endTime":1475.352,"body":"we might actually not need to go to 0.1."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1475.352,"endTime":1479.882,"body":"We might be able to go even below"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1475.352,"endTime":1479.882,"body":"0.05, but we should actually be"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1480.392,"endTime":1484.592,"body":"shutting down the, the coal and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1480.392,"endTime":1484.592,"body":"the oil and the gas because they're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1484.652,"endTime":1486.362,"body":"hugely contaminating as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1487.0220000000002,"endTime":1491.102,"body":"Uh, even more so considering the,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1487.0220000000002,"endTime":1491.102,"body":"the, the use of their products."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1491.957,"endTime":1492.6470000000002,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1492.737,"endTime":1493.1870000000001,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1493.1870000000001,"endTime":1494.877,"body":"It's it's basically as simple as that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1495.487,"endTime":1495.787,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1496.977,"endTime":1498.117,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1498.527,"endTime":1498.857,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1498.857,"endTime":1501.467,"body":"I just looked it up and it was 0.05%."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1502.067,"endTime":1502.557,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1502.967,"endTime":1503.297,"body":"Good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1503.597,"endTime":1504.227,"body":"Good, good, good."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1504.527,"endTime":1506.747,"body":"and indeed, there's"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1504.527,"endTime":1506.747,"body":"been some follow ups on that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1506.747,"endTime":1510.137,"body":"study that actually show a little"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1506.747,"endTime":1510.137,"body":"bit more, uh, lithium mines."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1510.1970000000001,"endTime":1514.323,"body":"Um, and then the, the difference"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1510.1970000000001,"endTime":1514.323,"body":"between, uh, let's say the new materials."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1514.968,"endTime":1519.438,"body":"And the old materials coal mainly become"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1514.968,"endTime":1519.438,"body":"a little bit less uneven, but still"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1519.588,"endTime":1524.722,"body":"indeed it looks like, we're actually"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1519.588,"endTime":1524.722,"body":"going to, to, if we could close all the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1524.722,"endTime":1529.422,"body":"coal mines first where we, we could use"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1524.722,"endTime":1529.422,"body":"less area, but also there, because it's"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1529.4270000000001,"endTime":1534.252,"body":"so little, the question becomes, um,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1529.4270000000001,"endTime":1534.252,"body":"how can we do it in a sustainable way?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1534.252,"endTime":1538.182,"body":"Where can we do it in such a way that,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1534.252,"endTime":1538.182,"body":"that the impact on nature is, is minimal"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1538.5420000000001,"endTime":1542.112,"body":"and there's yeah, it's really crude."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1542.112,"endTime":1543.642,"body":"How we mind stuff at the moment."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1544.4370000000001,"endTime":1548.457,"body":"So there's lots of, uh, of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1544.4370000000001,"endTime":1548.457,"body":"improvements to, to be had you, you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1548.457,"endTime":1551.1870000000001,"body":"hear, I'm always an optimism, always"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1548.457,"endTime":1551.1870000000001,"body":"looking at what can be improved."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1551.817,"endTime":1557.247,"body":"Am I, am I sure that we are going to get"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1551.817,"endTime":1557.247,"body":"to a hundred percent renewable in 2050?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1557.607,"endTime":1560.277,"body":"Am I sure that all this"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1557.607,"endTime":1560.277,"body":"mining is going to clean up?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1560.3970000000002,"endTime":1562.6770000000001,"body":"Am I sure that we come are"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1560.3970000000002,"endTime":1562.6770000000001,"body":"closing all those coal?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1562.827,"endTime":1563.817,"body":"No, no, no."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1563.817,"endTime":1564.477,"body":"Not at all."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1565.1770000000001,"endTime":1569.2920000000001,"body":"Actually I sometimes get a"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1565.1770000000001,"endTime":1569.2920000000001,"body":"little bit exasperated when"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1569.2920000000001,"endTime":1571.452,"body":"I see what we're doing wrong."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1571.452,"endTime":1573.5520000000001,"body":"I mean, also look at Europe right now."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1573.612,"endTime":1573.882,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1574.332,"endTime":1579.912,"body":"We knew we were, going to take"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1574.332,"endTime":1579.912,"body":"a lot of gas and, uh, uh, we"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1579.912,"endTime":1582.432,"body":"should build that down quicker."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1582.432,"endTime":1586.512,"body":"We knew, we knew that, that it"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1582.432,"endTime":1586.512,"body":"was, uh, for the climate, but also"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1586.512,"endTime":1589.8120000000001,"body":"for international relations, et"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1586.512,"endTime":1589.8120000000001,"body":"cetera, a better idea to, to, to,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1589.872,"endTime":1591.2820000000002,"body":"to get more solar and wind quick."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1592.047,"endTime":1599.037,"body":"But we were just lazy and now, and now we"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1592.047,"endTime":1599.037,"body":"have that, but, but I do say that, um, I"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1599.037,"endTime":1606.837,"body":"think most people don't understand yet how"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1599.037,"endTime":1606.837,"body":"much the war in, uh, Russian reservation"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1606.837,"endTime":1614.317,"body":"of Ukraine has sort of solidified this"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1606.837,"endTime":1614.317,"body":"movement towards renewables, including"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1614.337,"endTime":1616.737,"body":"even, and I'm not against nuclear."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1616.737,"endTime":1618.4470000000001,"body":"Let me say that for the record again."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1618.4470000000001,"endTime":1619.107,"body":"I think it's."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1620.307,"endTime":1622.227,"body":"I think it's slow to build."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1622.617,"endTime":1626.337,"body":"And I think there's, there's some, some"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1622.617,"endTime":1626.337,"body":"stuff you need to watch out for like"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1626.577,"endTime":1631.257,"body":"proliferation cetera, but it's much"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1626.577,"endTime":1631.257,"body":"better than call in my opinion and, and"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1631.257,"endTime":1633.4470000000001,"body":"keeping a nuclear a little bit longer."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1633.452,"endTime":1634.557,"body":"I I'm a fan of that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1634.587,"endTime":1634.9370000000001,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1635.577,"endTime":1639.257,"body":"But now that you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1635.577,"endTime":1639.257,"body":"see that if Russia, uh, walks into"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1639.257,"endTime":1644.007,"body":"a territory and, and there's a, a"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1639.257,"endTime":1644.007,"body":"nuclear power plant in there, everybody"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1644.007,"endTime":1646.527,"body":"gets really worried, really worried."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1646.5720000000001,"endTime":1646.902,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1647.6970000000001,"endTime":1650.727,"body":"Believe me, if there"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1647.6970000000001,"endTime":1650.727,"body":"were lots of solar panels and windmills"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1650.727,"endTime":1653.127,"body":"around there, nobody would be worried."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1653.787,"endTime":1657.267,"body":"So I think this really"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1653.787,"endTime":1657.267,"body":"solidifies the momentum."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1657.267,"endTime":1659.607,"body":"I mean, I mean, I'm not,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1657.267,"endTime":1659.607,"body":"I'm not saying nice."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1659.607,"endTime":1660.4470000000001,"body":"There is a war, right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1661.632,"endTime":1661.722,"body":"of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1661.9170000000001,"endTime":1662.967,"body":"A hundred"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1661.9170000000001,"endTime":1662.967,"body":"percent the opposite."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1664.107,"endTime":1671.787,"body":"But I do think this sort of exposes that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1664.107,"endTime":1671.787,"body":"the kind of look at how a predictable"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1671.787,"endTime":1675.777,"body":"look at how, uh, I said trustworthy."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1676.332,"endTime":1679.5720000000001,"body":"These old source of energy"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1676.332,"endTime":1679.5720000000001,"body":"are, and this new stuff, you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1679.5720000000001,"endTime":1680.8020000000001,"body":"cannot, you cannot trust it."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1680.8020000000001,"endTime":1684.2820000000002,"body":"That people are going to say,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1680.8020000000001,"endTime":1684.2820000000002,"body":"well, trust we, but yeah, we need"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1684.2820000000002,"endTime":1686.232,"body":"a lot of gas and it wasn't there."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1686.262,"endTime":1689.142,"body":"I, I, that's not my definition"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1686.262,"endTime":1689.142,"body":"of, of, of, of an issue."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1689.1470000000002,"endTime":1689.3220000000001,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1689.3220000000001,"endTime":1690.372,"body":"You can depend on."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1690.672,"endTime":1695.142,"body":"And this, this, this nuclear thingy"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1690.672,"endTime":1695.142,"body":"seems to be a lot of times that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1695.202,"endTime":1698.2920000000001,"body":"that something can happen or the,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1695.202,"endTime":1698.2920000000001,"body":"the planet gets hot and you don't"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1698.2920000000001,"endTime":1699.762,"body":"have the, the, the water to cool it."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1701.5620000000001,"endTime":1702.972,"body":"You can call it dependable."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1703.3020000000001,"endTime":1704.892,"body":"I call it a little bit worrisome."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1705.612,"endTime":1711.2820000000002,"body":"So if some nerd says I have enough storage"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1705.612,"endTime":1711.2820000000002,"body":"and I have a complex solution, but believe"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1711.2820000000002,"endTime":1715.452,"body":"me, we are going to get you through"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1711.2820000000002,"endTime":1715.452,"body":"the winter weeks with solar and wind."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1715.842,"endTime":1718.0620000000001,"body":"All of a sudden, I'm now going"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1715.842,"endTime":1718.0620000000001,"body":"to look a little bit more closely"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1718.067,"endTime":1719.082,"body":"into that if you don't mind."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1719.502,"endTime":1724.2720000000002,"body":"So I really think this helps"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1719.502,"endTime":1724.2720000000002,"body":"basically to, uh, to, to lower"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1724.2720000000002,"endTime":1725.742,"body":"the temperature in 2100, a little."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1726.402,"endTime":1726.762,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1727.152,"endTime":1727.362,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1727.422,"endTime":1727.632,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1727.662,"endTime":1727.902,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1728.7250000000001,"endTime":1737.815,"body":"So you, you tweeted yesterday about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1728.7250000000001,"endTime":1737.815,"body":"solar and the fact that the deployment"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1737.815,"endTime":1740.185,"body":"of solar has exceeded your expectations."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1741.25,"endTime":1741.8500000000001,"body":"Again,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1742.48,"endTime":1744.8200000000002,"body":"can you, can you talk a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1742.48,"endTime":1744.8200000000002,"body":"little bit about that for anyone who"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1745.06,"endTime":1751.27,"body":"didn't see the tweet thread and is unaware"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1745.06,"endTime":1751.27,"body":"of how much solar has been deployed?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1752.23,"endTime":1752.44,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1752.44,"endTime":1757.96,"body":"So one of the reasons I got a little"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1752.44,"endTime":1757.96,"body":"bit famous in this very, very small, um,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1757.99,"endTime":1764.23,"body":"uh, energy, uh, nerd TWI, uh, circle on"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1757.99,"endTime":1764.23,"body":"Twitter was that I show that if you looked"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1764.2350000000001,"endTime":1769.6000000000001,"body":"at the yearly deployment of, uh, solar,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1764.2350000000001,"endTime":1769.6000000000001,"body":"that the international energy agency."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1770.305,"endTime":1774.115,"body":"But I only use them as a proxy because"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1770.305,"endTime":1774.115,"body":"they're the most famous, uh, predictor"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1774.115,"endTime":1775.9450000000002,"body":"of, uh, of, of energy systems."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1775.9450000000002,"endTime":1780.025,"body":"But basically everybody else was more"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1775.9450000000002,"endTime":1780.025,"body":"or less predicting the same the day"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1780.025,"endTime":1784.795,"body":"where if you look in, uh, more closely"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1780.025,"endTime":1784.795,"body":"were basically predicting that the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1784.8,"endTime":1789.7450000000001,"body":"yearly solar additions wouldn't grow"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1784.8,"endTime":1789.7450000000001,"body":"that fast, more or less horizontal even."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1790.585,"endTime":1793.585,"body":"And then you look at reality"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1790.585,"endTime":1793.585,"body":"year on year on year."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1793.585,"endTime":1796.375,"body":"There's on average, over"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1793.585,"endTime":1796.375,"body":"the last 30 years about."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1797.79,"endTime":1800.98,"body":"Actually an average of 50% growth"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1797.79,"endTime":1800.98,"body":"and it's, it's very seldom."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1800.98,"endTime":1802.42,"body":"It gets below 30%."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1802.66,"endTime":1806.77,"body":"So that's an incredibly fast"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1802.66,"endTime":1806.77,"body":"exponential growth with lots of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1806.77,"endTime":1809.8600000000001,"body":"extra power coming online every year."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1810.25,"endTime":1814.42,"body":"And now I just, I, I don't update"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1810.25,"endTime":1814.42,"body":"that graph every year anymore"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1814.42,"endTime":1816.0700000000002,"body":"because it, I find it's boring."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1816.99,"endTime":1823.3,"body":"but now I read that Bloomberg new energy"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1816.99,"endTime":1823.3,"body":"finance had sort of, uh, made an inventory"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1823.3300000000002,"endTime":1825.94,"body":"of, uh, the amount of poly Silicon."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1827.05,"endTime":1833.56,"body":"There was sort of planned worldwide in"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1827.05,"endTime":1833.56,"body":"2025 and there they reached the magic"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1833.56,"endTime":1837.31,"body":"number of one terror wa of poly Silicon."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1837.31,"endTime":1842.65,"body":"If you put all this poly Silicon that's,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1837.31,"endTime":1842.65,"body":"let's now planned to be produced in 2025."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1842.8600000000001,"endTime":1843.16,"body":"mm."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1843.67,"endTime":1846.46,"body":"And, and I have"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1843.67,"endTime":1846.46,"body":"to be make a little caveat here."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1846.94,"endTime":1850.0,"body":"Not all planned, uh,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1846.94,"endTime":1850.0,"body":"capacity will come online."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1850.81,"endTime":1854.74,"body":"On the other hand, there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1850.81,"endTime":1854.74,"body":"of capacity that we don't know yet."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1854.8600000000001,"endTime":1855.52,"body":"Um, that is."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1856.315,"endTime":1858.115,"body":"Welcome online so often."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1858.175,"endTime":1863.035,"body":"Um, uh, let's say you lose 30% of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1858.175,"endTime":1863.035,"body":"what you now have in your bucket."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1863.065,"endTime":1863.545,"body":"You think?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1863.545,"endTime":1867.4750000000001,"body":"Uh, oh, but there's also 30%"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1863.545,"endTime":1867.4750000000001,"body":"that you didn't know existed."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1867.4750000000001,"endTime":1869.665,"body":"That's all of a sudden"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1867.4750000000001,"endTime":1869.665,"body":"coming into your bucket."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1869.665,"endTime":1875.155,"body":"So actually I think we might very"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1869.665,"endTime":1875.155,"body":"well have one terawatt, and that's"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1875.185,"endTime":1878.525,"body":"immense amount of poly Silicon in 2025."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1878.525,"endTime":1887.125,"body":"And then maybe it will take until 2027,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1878.525,"endTime":1887.125,"body":"uh, 20, 26, 27 until become solar panels"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1887.185,"endTime":1892.255,"body":"because that usually reacts a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1887.185,"endTime":1892.255,"body":"but this is an amount of solar energy."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1892.315,"endTime":1898.1950000000002,"body":"Even my graph was like, yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1892.315,"endTime":1898.1950000000002,"body":"really have to extend this exponential"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1898.375,"endTime":1903.405,"body":"from 2022 to 2025 to match what"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1898.375,"endTime":1903.405,"body":"the industry is doing right now."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1903.405,"endTime":1907.7250000000001,"body":"And at that trajectory, Solar is"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1903.405,"endTime":1907.7250000000001,"body":"blowing everything outta the water."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1907.7250000000001,"endTime":1913.9950000000001,"body":"I'm not saying that if we just stayed at"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1907.7250000000001,"endTime":1913.9950000000001,"body":"one terawatt a year in 2027, for example,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1913.9950000000001,"endTime":1919.605,"body":"25, we would be there in 2040, 2050."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1920.295,"endTime":1924.795,"body":"But I am saying if this, exponential"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1920.295,"endTime":1924.795,"body":"growth is some sort of logistics"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1924.795,"endTime":1928.935,"body":"curve, if it is an S curve,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1924.795,"endTime":1928.935,"body":"that's going somewhere, then it's"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1928.935,"endTime":1932.355,"body":"going somewhere at amazing speed."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1932.415,"endTime":1933.9450000000002,"body":"This is like 2030."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1933.9450000000002,"endTime":1936.7350000000001,"body":"We get 60% of our energy"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1933.9450000000002,"endTime":1936.7350000000001,"body":"from solar or something."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1937.065,"endTime":1942.555,"body":"So it'll probably flatten out because"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1937.065,"endTime":1942.555,"body":"even in my mind it can be that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1942.555,"endTime":1946.125,"body":"simple, but, but it's, it's crazy."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1946.125,"endTime":1946.4850000000001,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1947.335,"endTime":1951.585,"body":"You know, the same thing we see"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1947.335,"endTime":1951.585,"body":"with batteries, which are, uh,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1951.585,"endTime":1955.185,"body":"battery factory, uh, uh, are,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1951.585,"endTime":1955.185,"body":"are coming online, like crazy."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1955.19,"endTime":1958.665,"body":"And everybody's worried about China"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1955.19,"endTime":1958.665,"body":"because actually they're getting their"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1958.9650000000001,"endTime":1963.7050000000002,"body":"ducks in a row very nicely, but nothing"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1958.9650000000001,"endTime":1963.7050000000002,"body":"keeps us from, uh, from doing the same"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1964.425,"endTime":1966.375,"body":"there's enough, uh, resources worldwide."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1966.375,"endTime":1967.875,"body":"And we should open some mines, yes."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1967.875,"endTime":1969.135,"body":"We already talked about that."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1970.125,"endTime":1973.4850000000001,"body":"Um, the same amazing things"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1970.125,"endTime":1973.4850000000001,"body":"are happening in, uh, in wind"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1973.4850000000001,"endTime":1975.315,"body":"energy because it's a very quiet."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1976.425,"endTime":1979.515,"body":"Very, yeah, a revolution on"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1976.425,"endTime":1979.515,"body":"the background, wind power."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1979.515,"endTime":1982.4850000000001,"body":"The only thing that happens is these"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1979.515,"endTime":1982.4850000000001,"body":"blades are getting longer and longer"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1982.4850000000001,"endTime":1985.4850000000001,"body":"and longer, and the prices are getting"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1982.4850000000001,"endTime":1985.4850000000001,"body":"lower and lower and lower, but this"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1985.4850000000001,"endTime":1990.1100000000001,"body":"is actually game changing, all the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1985.4850000000001,"endTime":1990.1100000000001,"body":"way, including we're getting better"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1990.1100000000001,"endTime":1993.6200000000001,"body":"and better at floating wind, for"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1990.1100000000001,"endTime":1993.6200000000001,"body":"example, which, which opens up all"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1993.6200000000001,"endTime":1995.42,"body":"kinds of newer, uh, applications."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1996.125,"endTime":1999.365,"body":"Then we have this seasonal storage"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1996.125,"endTime":1999.365,"body":"thing that I have to admit at the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":1999.365,"endTime":2001.615,"body":"moment is still pretty expensive."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2001.615,"endTime":2004.645,"body":"We, we know how to do it on a megawatt"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2001.615,"endTime":2004.645,"body":"scale, but not really on a, on a, on"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2004.645,"endTime":2008.065,"body":"a gig what scale, but that is getting"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2004.645,"endTime":2008.065,"body":"cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, fast."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2008.065,"endTime":2012.415,"body":"So getting a lot of hydrogen from,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2008.065,"endTime":2012.415,"body":"for sample offshore, wind would"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2012.415,"endTime":2014.125,"body":"already solve almost all problems."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2014.125,"endTime":2015.9850000000001,"body":"If we, if, if that was the way to go."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2016.165,"endTime":2021.055,"body":"So this, if you look at this"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2016.165,"endTime":2021.055,"body":"field, like I do, there's so many"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2021.055,"endTime":2023.9950000000001,"body":"breakthroughs happening every"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2021.055,"endTime":2023.9950000000001,"body":"year that it's breathtaking."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2024.655,"endTime":2028.135,"body":"And again, another"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2024.655,"endTime":2028.135,"body":"argument that's often thrown out there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2028.765,"endTime":2032.255,"body":"What do, what do we do with all these"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2028.765,"endTime":2032.255,"body":"batteries when they come to end of life?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2033.775,"endTime":2036.2050000000002,"body":"Well at the"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2033.775,"endTime":2036.2050000000002,"body":"moment, the only problem is how"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2036.2050000000002,"endTime":2037.525,"body":"do we produce enough batteries?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2037.525,"endTime":2042.295,"body":"Because almost no batteries, larger"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2037.525,"endTime":2042.295,"body":"batteries are already even close to,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2042.4450000000002,"endTime":2046.365,"body":"uh, end of life, ask yourself how many"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2042.4450000000002,"endTime":2046.365,"body":"electric vehicles were sold in 2001."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2047.05,"endTime":2051.2799999999997,"body":"That's how much, how much, uh,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2047.05,"endTime":2051.2799999999997,"body":"you have to sort of recycle now."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2051.2799999999997,"endTime":2054.7599999999998,"body":"Well, it's, it's a trickle, so"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2051.2799999999997,"endTime":2054.7599999999998,"body":"first we have to ramp up, but then"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2055.06,"endTime":2059.38,"body":"in the laboratory we can already"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2055.06,"endTime":2059.38,"body":"recycle about 95% of the material."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2060.0099999999998,"endTime":2063.13,"body":"And actually we can probably get a"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2060.0099999999998,"endTime":2063.13,"body":"little bit higher than that still."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2063.9,"endTime":2067.71,"body":"so the, the big problem recycling"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2063.9,"endTime":2067.71,"body":"is, is getting the, I would say"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2067.74,"endTime":2071.957,"body":"capitalist system ready to embrace it,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2067.74,"endTime":2071.957,"body":"to make sure that throwing away stuff."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2072.487,"endTime":2076.152,"body":"Is gonna cost a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2072.487,"endTime":2076.152,"body":"than recycling it, but it's not,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2076.242,"endTime":2077.802,"body":"it's not that hard actually."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2078.372,"endTime":2081.462,"body":"And in the end, if we need enough"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2078.372,"endTime":2081.462,"body":"resources, it will become cheaper because"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2081.462,"endTime":2084.612,"body":"basically recycling is a little bit"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2081.462,"endTime":2084.612,"body":"more complex than throwing stuff away."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2085.032,"endTime":2088.372,"body":"And what we see over the whole,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2085.032,"endTime":2088.372,"body":"the whole range of solutions"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2088.377,"endTime":2092.242,"body":"is that complex solutions are"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2088.377,"endTime":2092.242,"body":"basically winning out in the end."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2092.247,"endTime":2096.3070000000002,"body":"If, if it's resource use versus"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2092.247,"endTime":2096.3070000000002,"body":"complexity, Complexity takes time,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2096.487,"endTime":2099.877,"body":"but it wins out in the end because"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2096.487,"endTime":2099.877,"body":"it's simply if, once you understand"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2099.877,"endTime":2101.087,"body":"how it works, it's cheaper."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2101.647,"endTime":2102.007,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2103.0370000000003,"endTime":2106.597,"body":"Auke, we're coming towards the end"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2103.0370000000003,"endTime":2106.597,"body":"of the podcast now, is there any"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2106.597,"endTime":2110.527,"body":"question that I haven't asked that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2106.597,"endTime":2110.527,"body":"you wish I had, or any aspect of this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2110.532,"endTime":2113.487,"body":"we haven't touched on that you think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2110.532,"endTime":2113.487,"body":"it's important for people to be aware?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2115.2670000000003,"endTime":2118.627,"body":"No, actually I think"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2115.2670000000003,"endTime":2118.627,"body":"we covered everything quite nicely"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2119.587,"endTime":2124.629,"body":"and uh, I just hope that people take"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2119.587,"endTime":2124.629,"body":"away from this podcast two messages."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2125.139,"endTime":2129.279,"body":"One is it's not going to be easy"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2125.139,"endTime":2129.279,"body":"people who tell you that they're right,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2129.339,"endTime":2133.435,"body":"because this is one of the biggest,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2129.339,"endTime":2133.435,"body":"transitions that humanity has ever known."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2133.435,"endTime":2136.945,"body":"If you, if you look at, in, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2133.435,"endTime":2136.945,"body":"material flows, in terms of money flows,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2136.945,"endTime":2140.155,"body":"that it, it, by far the biggest transition"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2136.945,"endTime":2140.155,"body":"that we've ever done as humanity."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2140.455,"endTime":2145.735,"body":"We are going to be the generation that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2140.455,"endTime":2145.735,"body":"completely transitions all of humanity"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2145.735,"endTime":2151.312,"body":"from burning stuff, which we all know"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2145.735,"endTime":2151.312,"body":"would, would end quite quickly into, very"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2151.312,"endTime":2153.562,"body":"sustainable solutions or we don't survive."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2153.562,"endTime":2159.1420000000003,"body":"It's as simple as that, but on the other"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2153.562,"endTime":2159.1420000000003,"body":"hand, I hope to, for them to take, uh, uh,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2159.1420000000003,"endTime":2163.552,"body":"apart from that more or less heroic story,"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2159.1420000000003,"endTime":2163.552,"body":"whether we want it or not that we have"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2163.552,"endTime":2168.777,"body":"in front of us, uh, I want them to get"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2163.552,"endTime":2168.777,"body":"hope from this story, basically, because"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2168.777,"endTime":2175.522,"body":"there's so many ways we can solve this"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2168.777,"endTime":2175.522,"body":"and we, we can, even if we want to, have"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2175.582,"endTime":2179.512,"body":"the stupid capitalist system, what we do"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2175.582,"endTime":2179.512,"body":"it now in place and, and not upgrade it"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2179.512,"endTime":2183.502,"body":"to, for example, looking at smarter things"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2179.512,"endTime":2183.502,"body":"than, gross national product, because I"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2183.502,"endTime":2187.132,"body":"think that's still, uh, not the best way"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2183.502,"endTime":2187.132,"body":"to measure progress in, in a country."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2187.132,"endTime":2187.282,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2189.067,"endTime":2193.044,"body":"We don't have to change that"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2189.067,"endTime":2193.044,"body":"fundamentally, as a society."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2193.044,"endTime":2198.631,"body":"So, so it's not like this is some, crazy"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2193.044,"endTime":2198.631,"body":"scheme and we need to transform everything"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2198.636,"endTime":2200.341,"body":"in the world in order to achieve this."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2200.6710000000003,"endTime":2203.851,"body":"No, we just have to get our duck"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2200.6710000000003,"endTime":2203.851,"body":"in a row in terms of energy."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2204.301,"endTime":2208.611,"body":"It's eminently doable, our paper, I"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2204.301,"endTime":2208.611,"body":"think shows that nobody doubts that."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2209.146,"endTime":2212.176,"body":"Maybe it's gonna be 10% more"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2209.146,"endTime":2212.176,"body":"expensive than we do at the moment."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2212.176,"endTime":2214.096,"body":"Maybe it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2212.176,"endTime":2214.096,"body":"more or less expensive."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2214.096,"endTime":2217.966,"body":"We think so, but"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2214.096,"endTime":2217.966,"body":"nevertheless, it can be done."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2218.536,"endTime":2220.926,"body":"And, uh, yeah, I hope people take heart."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2221.233,"endTime":2221.773,"body":"Superb."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2221.833,"endTime":2222.373,"body":"Superb."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2222.463,"endTime":2222.763,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2223.543,"endTime":2227.443,"body":"Auke that's been really interesting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2223.543,"endTime":2227.443,"body":"if people want to know more about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2227.443,"endTime":2231.373,"body":"yourself or any of the things we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2227.443,"endTime":2231.373,"body":"discussed in the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2231.703,"endTime":2232.843,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2233.713,"endTime":2235.453,"body":"The easiest"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2233.713,"endTime":2235.453,"body":"way is certainly Twitter."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2236.878,"endTime":2238.7780000000002,"body":"My name at Auke Hoekstra."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2241.948,"endTime":2243.658,"body":"I'm not sure how you spell"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2241.948,"endTime":2243.658,"body":"it in English actually,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2243.973,"endTime":2244.333,"body":"It's okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2244.333,"endTime":2248.533,"body":"I'll I I'll have a link in the show"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2244.333,"endTime":2248.533,"body":"notes to, to your Twitter handle and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2248.533,"endTime":2249.853,"body":"anything else you want me to put in there?"},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2250.918,"endTime":2251.428,"body":"that's great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2251.983,"endTime":2252.4030000000002,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2252.623,"endTime":2252.833,"body":"Auke."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2252.913,"endTime":2254.593,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2252.913,"endTime":2254.593,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Auke Hoekstra","startTime":2256.078,"endTime":2256.828,"body":"You're very welcome."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2257.459,"endTime":2258.819,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2257.459,"endTime":2258.819,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2259.739,"endTime":2260.879,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2261.389,"endTime":2265.049,"body":"If you'd like to know more about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2261.389,"endTime":2265.049,"body":"Climate 21, feel free to drop me an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2265.049,"endTime":2271.819,"body":"email to Tom Raftery at outlook.com, or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2265.049,"endTime":2271.819,"body":"connect with me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2272.909,"endTime":2276.629,"body":"If you like the show, please, don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2272.909,"endTime":2276.629,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2276.629,"endTime":2281.159,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2276.629,"endTime":2281.159,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2281.789,"endTime":2284.7290000000003,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2281.789,"endTime":2284.7290000000003,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2284.939,"endTime":2288.819,"body":"It really does help new people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2284.939,"endTime":2288.819,"body":"to find the show Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2289.649,"endTime":2290.579,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}