{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":3.807,"endTime":6.992,"body":"And if you write"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":3.807,"endTime":6.992,"body":"solutions in, a lot of people think,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":7.022,"endTime":8.792,"body":"oh, well that will lead to complacency."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":8.792,"endTime":11.252,"body":"But my research clearly shows it doesn't."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":11.522,"endTime":14.732,"body":"It leads to much more"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":11.522,"endTime":14.732,"body":"effective behavior change."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":14.792,"endTime":15.332,"body":"Oh, right."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":15.337,"endTime":16.382,"body":"Something can be done."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":16.412,"endTime":17.402,"body":"I can do this."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":17.402,"endTime":20.522,"body":"I can follow the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":17.402,"endTime":20.522,"body":"character here and do that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":20.598,"endTime":22.698,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":20.598,"endTime":22.698,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":22.698,"endTime":24.228,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":24.528,"endTime":26.658,"body":"This is the Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":26.898,"endTime":30.528,"body":"The number one podcast, showcasing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":26.898,"endTime":30.528,"body":"best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.528,"endTime":32.208,"body":"emission, reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":32.598,"endTime":34.488,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.696,"endTime":38.476,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.696,"endTime":38.476,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":38.596,"endTime":40.996,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":43.166,"endTime":43.736,"body":"Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":43.736,"endTime":45.686,"body":"Welcome to the Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.806,"endTime":47.246,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":47.756,"endTime":52.076,"body":"And before we start, I would just"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":47.756,"endTime":52.076,"body":"like to welcome two new supporters of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":52.076,"endTime":55.196,"body":"this podcast, Paul Walsh and Hal Good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":59.539,"endTime":64.069,"body":"Both Paul and Hal signed up over the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":59.539,"endTime":64.069,"body":"last week to support this podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":64.459,"endTime":66.019,"body":"Thank you so much for that folks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":67.219,"endTime":70.699,"body":"If you'd like to become a supporter"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":67.219,"endTime":70.699,"body":"of this podcast to help me continue"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":70.699,"endTime":75.409,"body":"creating informative and engaging"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":70.699,"endTime":75.409,"body":"episodes, simply click on the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.409,"endTime":77.689,"body":"support link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":78.349,"endTime":82.579,"body":"Our go to tinyurl.com/climate pod."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":83.569,"endTime":86.269,"body":"You can make a small donation"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":83.569,"endTime":86.269,"body":"starting at just three euros."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.809,"endTime":89.269,"body":"And that's less than the cost"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.809,"endTime":89.269,"body":"of a cup of coffee, but it would"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":89.269,"endTime":91.549,"body":"really help me with this podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":92.719,"endTime":93.109,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":93.739,"endTime":94.549,"body":"That out of the way."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":94.999,"endTime":99.529,"body":"With me on the show today, I have my"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":94.999,"endTime":99.529,"body":"two special guests, Denise and Steve."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":100.069,"endTime":101.899,"body":"Denise and Steve, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.289,"endTime":105.859,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourselves"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.289,"endTime":105.859,"body":"with maybe Denise going first?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":106.44,"endTime":106.8,"body":"Hi there."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":106.83,"endTime":107.16,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":107.16,"endTime":107.85,"body":"Thanks Tom."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":107.916,"endTime":108.936,"body":"I'm Denise Baden."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":108.966,"endTime":112.806,"body":"I'm Professor of Sustainable Business"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":108.966,"endTime":112.806,"body":"at the University of Southampton."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":113.246,"endTime":117.446,"body":"But the project that's been engaging"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":113.246,"endTime":117.446,"body":"me for the last five years is the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":117.506,"endTime":122.696,"body":"Green Stories project where we've"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":117.506,"endTime":122.696,"body":"been trying to write climate solutions"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":122.726,"endTime":126.806,"body":"into stories to try and reach more"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":122.726,"endTime":126.806,"body":"people with the kinds of solutions"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":126.806,"endTime":128.516,"body":"that can really be transformative."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":129.221,"endTime":130.061,"body":"Fantastic, Steve."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":130.566,"endTime":131.616,"body":"Hi, I'm Steve Willis."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":131.616,"endTime":132.816,"body":"I'm a chemical engineer."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":133.296,"endTime":138.666,"body":"I've been working in large scale industry"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":133.296,"endTime":138.666,"body":"for over 30 years, and I'm currently"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":139.166,"endTime":142.896,"body":"director of Herculean Climate Solutions,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":139.166,"endTime":142.896,"body":"which we set up a few years ago to"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":142.901,"endTime":148.566,"body":"find hundreds of ways to do millions"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":142.901,"endTime":148.566,"body":"of tons of carbon capture or avoidance"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":148.566,"endTime":151.176,"body":"or sequestration or other solutions."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":151.889,"endTime":156.679,"body":"In the Covid Lockdowns, I started writing"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":151.889,"endTime":156.679,"body":"some climate fiction as a way of exploring"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":156.679,"endTime":163.214,"body":"some of those questions and also exploring"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":156.679,"endTime":163.214,"body":"the climate problem from the outside in."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":163.244,"endTime":168.374,"body":"So what would it take to do 10"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":163.244,"endTime":168.374,"body":"gigatons of carbon removal, and if"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":168.379,"endTime":172.094,"body":"you work back from that, where do"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":168.379,"endTime":172.094,"body":"you have to begin in order to be able"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":172.094,"endTime":174.274,"body":"to reach it within 20 to 30 years?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":175.184,"endTime":180.509,"body":"Okay, and we're on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":175.184,"endTime":180.509,"body":"the podcast today because you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":180.549,"endTime":186.459,"body":"published a book called No More Fairy"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":180.549,"endTime":186.459,"body":"Tales, Stories to Save Our Planet."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":186.943,"endTime":188.863,"body":"And this book came out"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":186.943,"endTime":188.863,"body":"shortly before Christmas."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":188.863,"endTime":190.063,"body":"I got a copy of it myself."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":190.493,"endTime":196.013,"body":"And it's a little bit different"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":190.493,"endTime":196.013,"body":"from normal books around"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":196.013,"endTime":198.173,"body":"climate in a couple of aspects."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":198.173,"endTime":202.033,"body":"The first I would say is it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":198.173,"endTime":202.033,"body":"not a book of a single story."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":202.033,"endTime":203.593,"body":"It's a book of short stories."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":203.911,"endTime":209.992,"body":"And second, they're more climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":203.911,"endTime":209.992,"body":"positive, I would say, than many"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":209.992,"endTime":212.062,"body":"climate books that have come out."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":212.122,"endTime":216.052,"body":"You know, fiction books that have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":212.122,"endTime":216.052,"body":"come out because most of the climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":216.052,"endTime":219.112,"body":"fiction books that come out are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":216.052,"endTime":219.112,"body":"horrendously dystopian, right?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":219.662,"endTime":221.647,"body":"So, Tell me about that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":221.677,"endTime":224.137,"body":"Tell me what was the thinking behind that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":224.197,"endTime":226.147,"body":"Why did you decide to go that route?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":226.477,"endTime":228.773,"body":"And yeah, let, let's dig into that first."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":229.638,"endTime":232.612,"body":"Okay, well, well if I"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":229.638,"endTime":232.612,"body":"start the whole point of the Green"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":232.612,"endTime":235.882,"body":"Stories project was to address"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":232.612,"endTime":235.882,"body":"the very issue you point out, Tom."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":236.357,"endTime":240.587,"body":"My background actually is psychology,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":236.357,"endTime":240.587,"body":"and I began to worry when I read"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":240.587,"endTime":244.907,"body":"climate fiction and it was so dystopian"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":240.587,"endTime":244.907,"body":"is, look, these terrible things will"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":244.907,"endTime":247.427,"body":"happen,  if we don't, take action."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":247.847,"endTime":253.101,"body":"But the fact is fear does not generally"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":247.847,"endTime":253.101,"body":"give rise to very positive behavior."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":253.491,"endTime":257.661,"body":"And when I did some research on this,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":253.491,"endTime":257.661,"body":"on how people respond to catastrophic"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":257.666,"endTime":262.971,"body":"versus solution focused stories,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":257.666,"endTime":262.971,"body":"whether in education or news or fiction."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":263.038,"endTime":267.598,"body":"Yeah, the fear-based ones will motivate"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":263.038,"endTime":267.598,"body":"some, but they'll put just as many off"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":267.742,"endTime":272.302,"body":"and they go into this kind of avoidance"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":267.742,"endTime":272.302,"body":"or passive despair, or even worse,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":272.307,"endTime":275.092,"body":"they go into this kind of prepping"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":272.307,"endTime":275.092,"body":"response, you know, buying up all the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":275.097,"endTime":281.57,"body":"toilet rolls and being and not what the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":275.097,"endTime":281.57,"body":"fiction writer is clearly hoping for."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":282.09,"endTime":285.575,"body":"And if you write solutions in,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":282.09,"endTime":285.575,"body":"a lot of people think, oh, well"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":285.575,"endTime":287.075,"body":"that will lead to complacency."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":287.075,"endTime":289.535,"body":"But my research clearly shows it doesn't."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":289.805,"endTime":293.015,"body":"It leads to much more"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":289.805,"endTime":293.015,"body":"effective behavior change."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":293.075,"endTime":293.615,"body":"Oh, right."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":293.62,"endTime":294.665,"body":"Something can be done."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":294.695,"endTime":295.685,"body":"I can do this."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":295.685,"endTime":298.805,"body":"I can follow the character"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":295.685,"endTime":298.805,"body":"here and do that."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":298.805,"endTime":302.405,"body":"So basically five years ago, I"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":298.805,"endTime":302.405,"body":"realized we were doing it all wrong."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":303.088,"endTime":306.418,"body":"So I've tried to address this"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":303.088,"endTime":306.418,"body":"issue through green stories writing"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":306.418,"endTime":310.738,"body":"competitions, but writers like"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":306.418,"endTime":310.738,"body":"conflicts, they like things to go"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":311.088,"endTime":315.473,"body":"wrong , and I still found it incredibly"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":311.088,"endTime":315.473,"body":"hard to get, stories through that"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":315.533,"endTime":317.633,"body":"weren't just all about the disaster."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":317.933,"endTime":319.943,"body":"So I started writing a few myself."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":320.393,"endTime":324.503,"body":"So when Steve got in touch with"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":320.393,"endTime":324.503,"body":"me saying, let's do an anthology"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":324.893,"endTime":329.573,"body":"and I want it done before COP 27,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":324.893,"endTime":329.573,"body":"which only left about 250 days."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":330.383,"endTime":330.773,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":331.008,"endTime":333.768,"body":"I thought this is an"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":331.008,"endTime":333.768,"body":"impossible task, but then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":333.908,"endTime":338.192,"body":"so is addressing the climate crisis,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":333.908,"endTime":338.192,"body":"but we got it done and we have a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":338.192,"endTime":340.772,"body":"superb anthology of 24 stories."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":340.982,"endTime":345.042,"body":"Some really top writers, Kim"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":340.982,"endTime":345.042,"body":"Stanley Robinson, Paolo Bacigalupi."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":345.482,"endTime":349.832,"body":"We wrote a few independently and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":345.482,"endTime":349.832,"body":"together, and lots of other experienced"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":349.832,"endTime":355.202,"body":"writers worked with climate experts and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":349.832,"endTime":355.202,"body":"as all iterative fashion to make sure"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":355.202,"endTime":357.522,"body":"that each story was genuinely engaging."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":357.852,"endTime":362.892,"body":"But also had a proper, decent solution,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":357.852,"endTime":362.892,"body":"not just doing a bit of recycling , but"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":362.892,"endTime":365.112,"body":"a proper transformative solution."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":365.117,"endTime":367.542,"body":"So, so Steve, you, you were"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":365.117,"endTime":367.542,"body":"the energy behind this."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":367.591,"endTime":368.641,"body":"Do you want to add to that?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":369.334,"endTime":371.364,"body":"Yeah, as we were"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":369.334,"endTime":371.364,"body":"saying, during the covid lockdowns,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":371.364,"endTime":375.724,"body":"I'd written some stories to"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":371.364,"endTime":375.724,"body":"try and explore these issues."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":376.114,"endTime":380.214,"body":"And as we've been exploring potential"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":376.114,"endTime":380.214,"body":"startups in the climate area"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":380.281,"endTime":381.991,"body":"we've been using three questions."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":381.991,"endTime":385.081,"body":"So it's three awkward questions"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":381.991,"endTime":385.081,"body":"and they are, when we look at"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":385.081,"endTime":386.806,"body":"the solution, will it work?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":387.166,"endTime":388.366,"body":"Will it do a million tons?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":388.966,"endTime":391.186,"body":"And is it a negative emission broadly?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":391.246,"endTime":394.276,"body":"And we're fairly flexible about"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":391.246,"endTime":394.276,"body":"exactly how those are applied."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":394.846,"endTime":400.576,"body":"And we wanted to write stories and"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":394.846,"endTime":400.576,"body":"crowbar those solutions into the stories."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":400.846,"endTime":405.106,"body":"So you've got something which is"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":400.846,"endTime":405.106,"body":"really big and illustrate it with"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":405.136,"endTime":406.696,"body":"some entertaining characters."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":407.056,"endTime":411.929,"body":"So you've got a story which has got a"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":407.056,"endTime":411.929,"body":"powerful kernel of scientific truth in it,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":412.349,"endTime":415.379,"body":"but it's written in a way that somebody"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":412.349,"endTime":415.379,"body":"actually wants to finish the story."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":416.219,"endTime":419.699,"body":"so it is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":416.219,"endTime":419.699,"body":"literally science fiction."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":421.229,"endTime":422.389,"body":"engineering"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":421.229,"endTime":422.389,"body":"fiction, I would say."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":423.264,"endTime":424.344,"body":"Well that's Steve's."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":424.344,"endTime":428.334,"body":"So this is the interesting thing as the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":424.344,"endTime":428.334,"body":"editor, because you know, you've got"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":428.334,"endTime":432.054,"body":"Steve from the engineering background"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":428.334,"endTime":432.054,"body":"who likes these big, bold, audacious"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":432.054,"endTime":437.274,"body":"solutions, and then you've got ecologists"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":432.054,"endTime":437.274,"body":"who think, well, why bother doing this?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":437.274,"endTime":438.744,"body":"Let's just need nature alone."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":439.134,"endTime":442.338,"body":"And then you've got the social scientists"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":439.134,"endTime":442.338,"body":"who's saying, well, there's no point"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":442.338,"endTime":447.286,"body":"drawing down with carbon or sequestering"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":442.338,"endTime":447.286,"body":"it, If we are consuming like mad all"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":447.286,"endTime":450.976,"body":"the time anyway, it's like pulling the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":447.286,"endTime":450.976,"body":"plug while the hot water's running."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":451.606,"endTime":455.686,"body":"So trying to manage those very"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":451.606,"endTime":455.686,"body":"different perspectives was"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":455.686,"endTime":458.236,"body":"incredibly educational, actually."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":458.236,"endTime":459.589,"body":"Um, A challenge."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":459.619,"endTime":463.189,"body":"I won't deny it, but I think we've"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":459.619,"endTime":463.189,"body":"got something there for everyone."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":463.189,"endTime":467.359,"body":"So, I think at one of the talks I did"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":463.189,"endTime":467.359,"body":"at COP 27, I might have coined the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":467.359,"endTime":471.169,"body":"term, someone will tell me, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":467.359,"endTime":471.169,"body":"if I'm wrong, social science fiction."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":471.709,"endTime":477.229,"body":"So, you know, we are familiar with science"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":471.709,"endTime":477.229,"body":"fiction as kind of enabling us to look at"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":477.229,"endTime":482.659,"body":"technology and play out some of the pros"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":477.229,"endTime":482.659,"body":"and cons, winners and losers from it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":482.659,"endTime":484.609,"body":"Like black mirrors a great example of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":484.939,"endTime":485.479,"body":"sure."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":485.689,"endTime":490.789,"body":"but I see fiction as a safe"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":485.689,"endTime":490.789,"body":"space to explore more systemic solutions."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":492.244,"endTime":496.504,"body":"Perhaps politicians can't talk"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":492.244,"endTime":496.504,"body":"about in this kind of environment"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":496.504,"endTime":499.924,"body":"with a confrontational press cuz"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":496.504,"endTime":499.924,"body":"it doesn't fit into a sound bite."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":500.029,"endTime":500.639,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":500.824,"endTime":505.264,"body":"So the way I've approached"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":500.824,"endTime":505.264,"body":"it is thinking, well currently our"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":505.264,"endTime":506.544,"body":"government will look at where we are."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":507.424,"endTime":510.274,"body":"And they'll make an incremental"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":507.424,"endTime":510.274,"body":"change to make us look better, so"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":510.274,"endTime":514.204,"body":"we'll be slightly less unsustainable,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":510.274,"endTime":514.204,"body":"but we won't be sustainable."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":514.204,"endTime":517.894,"body":"I like to look at, and you can do"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":514.204,"endTime":517.894,"body":"this when you are a fiction writer,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":518.464,"endTime":523.534,"body":"you imagine a world that is properly"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":518.464,"endTime":523.534,"body":"sustainable and then you think, well,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":523.714,"endTime":528.584,"body":"working backwards from there, what do"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":523.714,"endTime":528.584,"body":"we need to do and how can we get there?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":529.104,"endTime":532.324,"body":"And the first thing I think we need"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":529.104,"endTime":532.324,"body":"to do is have a way of enabling"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":532.324,"endTime":537.334,"body":"long-term decision making, which"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":532.324,"endTime":537.334,"body":"falls outside the electoral cycle."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":537.364,"endTime":540.754,"body":"And I know, you know, Wales, I think"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":537.364,"endTime":540.754,"body":"Scotland are gonna join with future"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":540.754,"endTime":544.804,"body":"generations commissioners, I'm very"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":540.754,"endTime":544.804,"body":"interested in citizen assemblies,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":544.834,"endTime":547.834,"body":"especially now we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":544.834,"endTime":547.834,"body":"getting rid of the House of Lords."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":547.914,"endTime":552.114,"body":"That would make a, a great replacement"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":547.914,"endTime":552.114,"body":"cuz they're outside the electoral cycle."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":552.114,"endTime":557.124,"body":"So I've got one story in there called"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":552.114,"endTime":557.124,"body":"The Assassin set within a citizen's jury"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":557.124,"endTime":562.134,"body":"that's been given proper legislative power"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":557.124,"endTime":562.134,"body":"and they're debating climate solutions."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":562.224,"endTime":566.824,"body":"The trouble is, one of them is an"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":562.224,"endTime":566.824,"body":"assassin . So it's uh, along Who Done"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":567.104,"endTime":571.145,"body":"It to engage the reader, but at the same"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":567.104,"endTime":571.145,"body":"time, you're seeing just how powerful a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":571.15,"endTime":574.194,"body":"different decision making process can be."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":574.327,"endTime":579.927,"body":"And, within other stories we talk about"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":574.327,"endTime":579.927,"body":"things like personal carbon allowances."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":579.927,"endTime":584.157,"body":"Now when you look at how can we"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":579.927,"endTime":584.157,"body":"reduce consumption if there an"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":584.157,"endTime":586.287,"body":"equitable manner, it's quite tricky."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":586.814,"endTime":590.579,"body":"If you add just taxes, it makes"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":586.814,"endTime":590.579,"body":"basically trashing the planet,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":590.584,"endTime":591.499,"body":"the privilege of the rich."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":592.784,"endTime":597.174,"body":"it's, it's very inequitable and most"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":592.784,"endTime":597.174,"body":"of our pricing mechanisms like energies"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":597.584,"endTime":601.784,"body":"is fairly expensive to begin with, but"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":597.584,"endTime":601.784,"body":"then as you use more, it gets cheaper."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":602.144,"endTime":605.751,"body":"It should be the other way around,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":602.144,"endTime":605.751,"body":"in terms of what carrots and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":605.751,"endTime":607.341,"body":"sticks we want to be applying."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":607.881,"endTime":611.241,"body":"So personal carbon mechanisms is"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":607.881,"endTime":611.241,"body":"something that was proposed back in"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":611.241,"endTime":617.481,"body":"2008 with Defra and David Milliband"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":611.241,"endTime":617.481,"body":"and the Sustainable Round Table, and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":617.481,"endTime":619.431,"body":"it was an idea ahead of its time."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":620.361,"endTime":622.731,"body":"But now we have carbon footprinting."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":622.731,"endTime":624.441,"body":"I mean, quite frankly, we are more scared."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":625.551,"endTime":629.871,"body":"We're in a much better place to look"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":625.551,"endTime":629.871,"body":"at that, but the awareness is low"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":630.021,"endTime":634.011,"body":"and there's potential for so much"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":630.021,"endTime":634.011,"body":"misinformation, and vested interests."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":634.281,"endTime":639.011,"body":"But it would, in one instance,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":634.281,"endTime":639.011,"body":"galvanize, harness finance and business"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":639.016,"endTime":643.971,"body":"investment and innovation towards"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":639.016,"endTime":643.971,"body":"sustainable low carbon products."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":644.031,"endTime":651.021,"body":"So it would be a root way, ground up way"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":644.031,"endTime":651.021,"body":"of transforming to a low-carbon society."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":651.621,"endTime":655.221,"body":"You know, without hoping business will"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":651.621,"endTime":655.221,"body":"just step up because of their reputation."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":655.221,"endTime":658.311,"body":"Or, and, and this is something I notice"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":655.221,"endTime":658.311,"body":"you talk about often in your podcast."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":658.311,"endTime":659.601,"body":"Why would business do this?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":659.625,"endTime":665.325,"body":"So you can't talk about these things"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":659.625,"endTime":665.325,"body":"easily in the political realm and,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":665.325,"endTime":669.105,"body":"and again, you can think back, well,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":665.325,"endTime":669.105,"body":"if personal carbon allowances are to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":669.105,"endTime":673.005,"body":"look good, they will look bad against"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":669.105,"endTime":673.005,"body":"our current metrics of success,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":673.065,"endTime":676.725,"body":"gross domestic product, as that"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":673.065,"endTime":676.725,"body":"is basically based on consumption."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":676.965,"endTime":681.405,"body":"So before you do that, first we need to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":676.965,"endTime":681.405,"body":"switch to some kind of Wellbeing Index or"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":681.405,"endTime":685.725,"body":"Happy Planet Index and other countries,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":681.405,"endTime":685.725,"body":"New Zealand, and Bhutan, they've fled"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":685.785,"endTime":690.615,"body":"the way so you can get a real sense of"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":685.785,"endTime":690.615,"body":"what needs to happen and in what order."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":691.52,"endTime":695.18,"body":"For all these projects that Steve"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":691.52,"endTime":695.18,"body":"would like to see to actually"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":695.185,"endTime":697.26,"body":"get funding in the first place."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":697.26,"endTime":700.29,"body":"And you know, you can write as a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":697.26,"endTime":700.29,"body":"kind of benign dictator, you'll"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":700.78,"endTime":705.6,"body":"manifest over the planet and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":700.78,"endTime":705.6,"body":"already people are picking up on it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":705.605,"endTime":710.23,"body":"I've got a politics colleague who"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":705.605,"endTime":710.23,"body":"says, I work in citizen assemblies."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":710.44,"endTime":713.23,"body":"I think they're the silver"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":710.44,"endTime":713.23,"body":"bullet, but there's low awareness."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":713.47,"endTime":717.04,"body":"Can we adapt your story as"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":713.47,"endTime":717.04,"body":"a play to engage the public?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":717.04,"endTime":722.38,"body":"And I'm thinking, yes, you can So it"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":717.04,"endTime":722.38,"body":"really is that the power of fiction"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":722.38,"endTime":726.26,"body":"to, to raise awareness of these sort"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":722.38,"endTime":726.26,"body":"of more transformative solutions."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":726.26,"endTime":726.73,"body":"I think."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":726.95,"endTime":727.28,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":727.51,"endTime":729.29,"body":"Steve, I've"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":727.51,"endTime":729.29,"body":"Rabbited on over to you."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":729.39,"endTime":730.57,"body":"I'm sure you've got something to say"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":731.5,"endTime":732.52,"body":"that's"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":731.5,"endTime":732.52,"body":"never happened before."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":732.73,"endTime":734.65,"body":"Denise, I've forgotten"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":732.73,"endTime":734.65,"body":"what the question is now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":736.181,"endTime":736.981,"body":"Well, let me, let"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":737.116,"endTime":737.556,"body":"your question?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":737.831,"endTime":740.531,"body":"well, no, let, let me,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":737.831,"endTime":740.531,"body":"lemme throw a different one because"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":740.965,"endTime":745.941,"body":"this reminds me very much of, this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":740.965,"endTime":745.941,"body":"is gonna sound weird, or maybe not,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":746.331,"endTime":750.741,"body":"but this kind of style of writing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":746.331,"endTime":750.741,"body":"reminds me very much of Star Trek."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":751.491,"endTime":757.866,"body":"So Star Trek is very, Almost"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":751.491,"endTime":757.866,"body":"utopian in that it, it pictures"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":757.866,"endTime":763.505,"body":"a, a world where humanity has"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":757.866,"endTime":763.505,"body":"overcome the problems of climate."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":763.925,"endTime":768.484,"body":"It has overcome the problems of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":763.925,"endTime":768.484,"body":"racism and all these kind of things."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":768.724,"endTime":772.799,"body":"And we're in this fantastic world"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":768.724,"endTime":772.799,"body":"where we have federations of planets"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":772.799,"endTime":774.389,"body":"and, you know, et cetera, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":774.389,"endTime":778.709,"body":"It's, and it's, it's, it's, so do you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":774.389,"endTime":778.709,"body":"wanna, do you wanna respond to that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":778.714,"endTime":780.479,"body":"Is that just insane thinking on my part?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":780.479,"endTime":781.279,"body":"Or is that very."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":781.544,"endTime":781.754,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":781.754,"endTime":782.954,"body":"No, not, not at all."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":782.954,"endTime":787.574,"body":"I mean, I, I visualize it that way many"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":782.954,"endTime":787.574,"body":"ways, you know, so it's like you go on"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":787.574,"endTime":791.624,"body":"the holodeck and you're running, you're"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":787.574,"endTime":791.624,"body":"writing your own program of what you want"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":791.629,"endTime":794.774,"body":"it to be, and because it's a holodeck,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":791.629,"endTime":794.774,"body":"you can go around again, you know?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":794.774,"endTime":798.273,"body":"So in couple of the stories,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":794.774,"endTime":798.273,"body":"we go around the loop again."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":798.273,"endTime":804.513,"body":"So there's a, a story about the Titanic"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":798.273,"endTime":804.513,"body":"called Saving the Titanics, and it looks"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":804.513,"endTime":809.344,"body":"at how the Titanic might actually have"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":804.513,"endTime":809.344,"body":"been saved in a number of different ways."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":809.574,"endTime":813.231,"body":"And it's also threaded into a"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":809.574,"endTime":813.231,"body":"discussion about climate anxiety."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":813.651,"endTime":817.821,"body":"So it's set in an Alcoholic's"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":813.651,"endTime":817.821,"body":"Anonymous session for climate anxiety."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":818.151,"endTime":821.331,"body":"So you borrowing somebody else's tool."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":821.346,"endTime":825.354,"body":"But it's not about, I'm an alcoholic,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":821.346,"endTime":825.354,"body":"it's, you know, I have climate anxiety"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":825.864,"endTime":831.889,"body":"and they're using the Titanic stories"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":825.864,"endTime":831.889,"body":"as analogies for saying, this could have"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":831.889,"endTime":836.479,"body":"been done, this is the level of effort"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":831.889,"endTime":836.479,"body":"that it would've taken to save the people."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":837.109,"endTime":839.539,"body":"Now are we doing that for the climate?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":839.703,"endTime":842.723,"body":"And, going around those loops a"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":839.703,"endTime":842.723,"body":"couple of times, so the first time,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":842.903,"endTime":846.323,"body":"first story, they save all of the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":842.903,"endTime":846.323,"body":"people, not spoiling it for anybody."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":846.803,"endTime":850.583,"body":"The second time they go around the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":846.803,"endTime":850.583,"body":"loop, one of the people is missing."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":850.793,"endTime":852.923,"body":"So the idea doesn't catch."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":853.313,"endTime":854.963,"body":"So they all fail."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":855.053,"endTime":857.812,"body":"And this story proceeds"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":855.053,"endTime":857.812,"body":"in its current timeline."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":858.022,"endTime":863.038,"body":"So the uh, two thirds of the people"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":858.022,"endTime":863.038,"body":"die, but the third time they go around,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":863.688,"endTime":867.572,"body":"there's a little bit more traction"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":863.688,"endTime":867.572,"body":"in the story and they save the ship."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":868.142,"endTime":872.522,"body":"And ultimately, you know, if the Titanic"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":868.142,"endTime":872.522,"body":"is an analogy for Earth's society and"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":872.582,"endTime":877.118,"body":"climate anxiety and the climate that's"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":872.582,"endTime":877.118,"body":"the goal that we have to achieve."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":877.378,"endTime":882.293,"body":"We have to save the titanic, and this"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":877.378,"endTime":882.293,"body":"is a way of showing that it is possible"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":882.293,"endTime":888.023,"body":"to do, but the effort that goes into"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":882.293,"endTime":888.023,"body":"actually doing that and the realization"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":888.028,"endTime":892.913,"body":"that the huge effort is required is"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":888.028,"endTime":892.913,"body":"like, you know, where does the seed come"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":892.918,"endTime":896.603,"body":"from and how do you stitch it together"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":892.918,"endTime":896.603,"body":"to get the effort done within the time?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":896.933,"endTime":898.213,"body":"That's the challenge that we're facing."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":899.163,"endTime":902.433,"body":"I think also with Star"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":899.163,"endTime":902.433,"body":"Trek, I mean, I was a bit of a treky"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":902.433,"endTime":904.413,"body":"back in the day, have to admit."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":904.425,"endTime":907.815,"body":"They were very hazy on the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":904.425,"endTime":907.815,"body":"details of how you got there."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":908.475,"endTime":911.505,"body":"And I think one of the things"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":908.475,"endTime":911.505,"body":"that we've done in our anthology"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":911.505,"endTime":913.275,"body":"is we've really specified it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":913.275,"endTime":921.061,"body":"So Steve had this wonderful idea of"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":913.275,"endTime":921.061,"body":"the ocean having nation status and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":921.391,"endTime":922.761,"body":"Steve you wanna talk about that?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":923.151,"endTime":923.421,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":923.541,"endTime":923.721,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":923.911,"endTime":928.585,"body":"So, um, Four years ago I went to the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":923.911,"endTime":928.585,"body":"uh, World Ocean Summit, that, the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":928.585,"endTime":934.429,"body":"economist organizers and it was in Mexico"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":928.585,"endTime":934.429,"body":"and we were trying to promote a, uh,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":934.429,"endTime":936.319,"body":"artificial reef project at the time."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":936.319,"endTime":939.349,"body":"And I was trying to raise a couple"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":936.319,"endTime":939.349,"body":"of million bucks to do a trial."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":939.979,"endTime":943.939,"body":"We didn't succeed, unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":939.979,"endTime":943.939,"body":"cuz it was either too small or too"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":943.939,"endTime":946.039,"body":"big for the pots that were available."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":946.549,"endTime":951.064,"body":"So by the third day, it got to the stage"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":946.549,"endTime":951.064,"body":"where I sat down by this old American"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":951.064,"endTime":952.924,"body":"guy and said, how would you fix it?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":953.584,"endTime":958.004,"body":"And it turned out that he was the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":953.584,"endTime":958.004,"body":"sustainability director for one of the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":958.004,"endTime":963.559,"body":"big American banks, and he said, well,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":958.004,"endTime":963.559,"body":"America only became great after it became"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":963.559,"endTime":966.019,"body":"independent from its colonizing country."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":966.919,"endTime":972.199,"body":"By analogy, the ocean will only solve"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":966.919,"endTime":972.199,"body":"its problems when it becomes independent"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":972.469,"endTime":976.669,"body":"from the colonizing countries around it"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":972.469,"endTime":976.669,"body":"that are extracting resources for free."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":977.049,"endTime":979.669,"body":"The ocean needs to be"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":977.049,"endTime":979.669,"body":"an independent state."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":980.269,"endTime":984.169,"body":"And that was a seed that got"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":980.269,"endTime":984.169,"body":"planted three, four years ago."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":984.589,"endTime":988.729,"body":"And we've written it into four of"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":984.589,"endTime":988.729,"body":"the stories in the collection here."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":988.729,"endTime":993.721,"body":"So there's the, how it starts, one"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":988.729,"endTime":993.721,"body":"of the early stages one of the more"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":993.901,"endTime":998.341,"body":"problematic periods and then 40 years in"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":993.901,"endTime":998.341,"body":"the future where it's all worked great."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":998.611,"endTime":1003.575,"body":"And there's a new president a president"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":998.611,"endTime":1003.575,"body":"of the ocean and the ocean is part"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1003.575,"endTime":1008.87,"body":"of the United Nations and negotiating"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1003.575,"endTime":1008.87,"body":"on equal terms and calling the tune."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1009.05,"endTime":1013.223,"body":"So it changes the way the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1009.05,"endTime":1013.223,"body":"the whole scenario works."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1013.733,"endTime":1019.043,"body":"So if you think 40 years into the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1013.733,"endTime":1019.043,"body":"future and it's worked, and the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1019.043,"endTime":1021.287,"body":"ocean isn't a, in independent state."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1021.407,"endTime":1022.427,"body":"It, it doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1022.487,"endTime":1025.907,"body":"The story doesn't scan anymore,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1022.487,"endTime":1025.907,"body":"so you've broken the tune."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1026.267,"endTime":1029.867,"body":"But if you have an independent"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1026.267,"endTime":1029.867,"body":"ocean, the story does work because"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1029.867,"endTime":1034.637,"body":"it has such large influence across"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1029.867,"endTime":1034.637,"body":"the whole world and everybody's"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1034.637,"endTime":1036.737,"body":"trying to cooperate, with the ocean."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1036.917,"endTime":1040.957,"body":"And so it's aim is not to"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1036.917,"endTime":1040.957,"body":"defend its resources, its aim"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1041.047,"endTime":1042.787,"body":"is to charge for its resources."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1043.237,"endTime":1048.037,"body":"So if you are a country or a shipping"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1043.237,"endTime":1048.037,"body":"company, we just send you a bill"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1048.467,"endTime":1050.357,"body":", you've got your net zero commitment."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1050.717,"endTime":1050.987,"body":"Okay?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1050.987,"endTime":1051.537,"body":"Here's your bill."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1052.367,"endTime":1053.687,"body":"And you either pay it or you don't."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1054.182,"endTime":1055.907,"body":", no, I'm not coming after you."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1055.967,"endTime":1060.587,"body":"But some people will pay and once"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1055.967,"endTime":1060.587,"body":"the ocean as a state has some"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1060.592,"endTime":1064.067,"body":"revenue from that kind of thing,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1060.592,"endTime":1064.067,"body":"it becomes large enough to have"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1064.067,"endTime":1066.646,"body":"much larger positive engagement."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1067.456,"endTime":1072.863,"body":"So the money to actually fix the ocean"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1067.456,"endTime":1072.863,"body":"and money to do the big restoration"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1072.863,"endTime":1075.173,"body":"projects just doesn't exist at the moment."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1075.653,"endTime":1081.454,"body":"But the services which should be charged"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1075.653,"endTime":1081.454,"body":"for do exist and are being used, and all"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1081.459,"endTime":1083.153,"body":"we need to do is send out a pile of bills."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1083.553,"endTime":1083.708,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1084.008,"endTime":1084.428,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1085.073,"endTime":1087.833,"body":"And what's exciting"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1085.073,"endTime":1087.833,"body":"about this is, is one, I think the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1087.838,"endTime":1089.98,"body":"ocean is, there's less awareness of it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1089.98,"endTime":1094.72,"body":"We talk about planting trees that"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1089.98,"endTime":1094.72,"body":"conflicts with habitation, with food"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1094.72,"endTime":1098.92,"body":"growing, but there's way more place"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1094.72,"endTime":1098.92,"body":"to plant sea grass, kelp and so on"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1098.92,"endTime":1102.58,"body":"in the ocean, or just leave the stuff"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1098.92,"endTime":1102.58,"body":"that's there without destroying it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1102.58,"endTime":1105.608,"body":"And You know, we already get, so"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1102.58,"endTime":1105.608,"body":"Steve, you were saying you were"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1105.608,"endTime":1108.008,"body":"at the, the Ocean Summit last"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1108.008,"endTime":1111.218,"body":"year and people Yeah, so I,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1108.008,"endTime":1111.218,"body":"I went to the World Ocean Summit Singapore"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1111.218,"endTime":1112.951,"body":"just in December November, December."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1113.461,"endTime":1117.583,"body":"And spent two entertaining days"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1113.461,"endTime":1117.583,"body":"just chatting to people saying,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1117.583,"endTime":1118.723,"body":"have you ever thought of this?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1118.723,"endTime":1122.443,"body":"You know, so people have been involved"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1118.723,"endTime":1122.443,"body":"in the topic for a couple of years and."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1122.543,"endTime":1122.743,"body":"right,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1123.583,"endTime":1127.173,"body":"Oh, that's a good"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1123.583,"endTime":1127.173,"body":"idea, So, we're gonna see if"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1127.173,"endTime":1128.323,"body":"we can get some more traction."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1128.733,"endTime":1132.176,"body":"So, if you know anybody, Tom, please"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1128.733,"endTime":1132.176,"body":"encourage them in that direction."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1132.686,"endTime":1133.126,"body":"will do"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1133.126,"endTime":1136.24,"body":"And I've got a, our head"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1133.126,"endTime":1136.24,"body":"of our law school again, you know,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1136.24,"endTime":1138.43,"body":"showed him the anthology the stories."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1138.814,"endTime":1141.994,"body":"He was inspired and he was saying,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1138.814,"endTime":1141.994,"body":"well, actually, yes, giving"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1141.994,"endTime":1147.157,"body":"legal status to nature is a very"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1141.994,"endTime":1147.157,"body":"effective way to protect our earth."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1147.217,"endTime":1152.587,"body":"So what is lovely is, as writers, we"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1147.217,"endTime":1152.587,"body":"dream that what we write will come true."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1152.942,"endTime":1156.152,"body":"But then when you see the impact"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1152.942,"endTime":1156.152,"body":"of the anthology out in the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1156.152,"endTime":1160.975,"body":"world, it is starting to inspire"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1156.152,"endTime":1160.975,"body":"people to think along these lines."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1161.19,"endTime":1162.36,"body":"Yeah, very much."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1162.365,"endTime":1162.69,"body":"Very much."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1162.96,"endTime":1166.86,"body":"And you've used the, expression"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1162.96,"endTime":1166.86,"body":"anthology now a couple of times."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1166.86,"endTime":1169.62,"body":"And I mentioned it's a se"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1166.86,"endTime":1169.62,"body":"a series of short stories."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1169.86,"endTime":1173.84,"body":"Can you talk a little bit about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1169.86,"endTime":1173.84,"body":"authors themselves and because you managed"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1173.84,"endTime":1176.96,"body":"to get some really interesting authors"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1173.84,"endTime":1176.96,"body":"to write some short stories for you?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1177.677,"endTime":1181.218,"body":"Yeah, so Kim Stanley"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1177.677,"endTime":1181.218,"body":"Robinson Stan as he calls himself he was"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1181.218,"endTime":1185.808,"body":"a real coup, he wrote Ministry For The"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1181.218,"endTime":1185.808,"body":"Future, and if you talk to anyone about"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1185.813,"endTime":1189.888,"body":"climate fiction, they always say, oh,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1185.813,"endTime":1189.888,"body":"have you read Ministry for the Future?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1189.888,"endTime":1192.618,"body":"And he was one of the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1189.888,"endTime":1192.618,"body":"first people I came across."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1192.707,"endTime":1196.367,"body":"And it's a very recent book, I think"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1192.707,"endTime":1196.367,"body":"came out in 2020 where he imagined"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1196.367,"endTime":1198.587,"body":"the UN had a ministry for the future."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1199.022,"endTime":1201.392,"body":"And then he imagined what they might do."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1201.872,"endTime":1207.752,"body":"And you know, he takes us over"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1201.872,"endTime":1207.752,"body":"decades and there's ups and downs."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1207.752,"endTime":1211.592,"body":"You know, there are mass deaths and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1207.752,"endTime":1211.592,"body":"extinctions, but it's broadly optimistic."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1212.402,"endTime":1216.092,"body":"So at the end we do kind of crack it"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1212.402,"endTime":1216.092,"body":"and I think he would did a really good"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1216.092,"endTime":1219.512,"body":"job of showing the jigsaw of activities."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1219.512,"endTime":1221.882,"body":"You need to harness the power of science."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1221.945,"endTime":1223.805,"body":"You need to harness the power of finance."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1224.195,"endTime":1226.175,"body":"You need some way to recompense people."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1226.175,"endTime":1230.015,"body":"He talks about carbon offsets"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1226.175,"endTime":1230.015,"body":"and the Carboni as a carbon coin."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1230.02,"endTime":1233.435,"body":"He talks about refreezing"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1230.02,"endTime":1233.435,"body":"glaciers, which is something that"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1233.44,"endTime":1235.032,"body":"inspired one of Steve's stories."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1236.172,"endTime":1238.172,"body":"So he talks about it from every angle."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1238.612,"endTime":1244.477,"body":"Cultural, scientific, technical, financial"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1238.612,"endTime":1244.477,"body":"there's even a Dark Wing , dark Ops"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1245.467,"endTime":1250.02,"body":"So, he was very inspiring and he was more"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1245.467,"endTime":1250.02,"body":"than happy for us to use, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1250.025,"endTime":1254.982,"body":"few selected chapters from that that we"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1250.025,"endTime":1254.982,"body":"could use a standalone stories and Paolo"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1254.982,"endTime":1258.16,"body":"Bacigalupi is another excellent writer."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1258.49,"endTime":1259.81,"body":"He wrote a lovely story."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1259.81,"endTime":1261.49,"body":"It's kinda like a family drama."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1261.955,"endTime":1266.395,"body":"Meets sort of futuristic cities, so it's"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1261.955,"endTime":1266.395,"body":"like Star Trek, but on the city it's"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1266.395,"endTime":1269.095,"body":"like imagined a sustainable society."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1269.095,"endTime":1271.825,"body":"You don't have individual"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1269.095,"endTime":1271.825,"body":"transport, you have super-duper"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1271.825,"endTime":1275.425,"body":"on demand, public transport, so"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1271.825,"endTime":1275.425,"body":"you don't need your own, you know?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1275.485,"endTime":1280.165,"body":"It talks about different forms of"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1275.485,"endTime":1280.165,"body":"renewable energy, like using gravitational"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1280.165,"endTime":1282.355,"body":"force, which people are talking about now."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1282.955,"endTime":1284.965,"body":"But at heart it's a family story."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1284.965,"endTime":1286.345,"body":"It's a father son tale."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1286.7,"endTime":1288.02,"body":"And it brings in AI."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1288.02,"endTime":1291.26,"body":"So you've got that intriguing"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1288.02,"endTime":1291.26,"body":"notion of how far can we"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1291.26,"endTime":1292.88,"body":"trust artificial intelligence?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1292.91,"endTime":1294.17,"body":"Is it friend or foe?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1294.56,"endTime":1296.12,"body":"So there's that hook as well."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1296.12,"endTime":1297.849,"body":"And also he's just a wonderful writer."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1298.263,"endTime":1301.443,"body":"So we, you know, we're really"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1298.263,"endTime":1301.443,"body":"pleased to have had, you know, so"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1301.448,"endTime":1304.383,"body":"many writers say, yep, you can use"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1301.448,"endTime":1304.383,"body":"this story, you can have that one."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1304.383,"endTime":1310.785,"body":"Andrew Dana hudson wrote a nice story for"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1304.383,"endTime":1310.785,"body":"us Our Shared Storm and you know, he does"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1310.785,"endTime":1315.105,"body":"a lot of sort of speculative fiction,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1310.785,"endTime":1315.105,"body":"science fiction set in the future."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1315.539,"endTime":1317.729,"body":"I tend to write set in the present day"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1318.509,"endTime":1318.839,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1319.649,"endTime":1320.009,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1320.039,"endTime":1324.184,"body":"So, and what was lovely is engaging with"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1320.039,"endTime":1324.184,"body":"all these authors because it can be quite"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1324.184,"endTime":1326.834,"body":"a lonely world, you know, writing stories."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1327.164,"endTime":1330.734,"body":"And what impressed me was they were"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1327.164,"endTime":1330.734,"body":"so willing to put so much effort in."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1331.469,"endTime":1334.559,"body":"And instead of us coming back saying,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1331.469,"endTime":1334.559,"body":"what a brilliant story, we'd come back"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1334.559,"endTime":1338.339,"body":"saying, actually, can you big up the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1334.559,"endTime":1338.339,"body":"climate solution , can you, this is"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1338.339,"endTime":1343.349,"body":"great story, but we need a bit more, it"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1338.339,"endTime":1343.349,"body":"needs to be a bit more transformative."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1343.529,"endTime":1347.632,"body":"And they were happy to work"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1343.529,"endTime":1347.632,"body":"with our climate experts to say"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1347.766,"endTime":1351.006,"body":"yes, you know, we can amend it"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1347.766,"endTime":1351.006,"body":"this way, that way, and so on."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1351.096,"endTime":1353.136,"body":"So very patient and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1353.136,"endTime":1353.839,"body":"Nice, nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1353.839,"endTime":1358.399,"body":"And it, it must have been, I mean, you,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1353.839,"endTime":1358.399,"body":"you were the editor, so it, it must have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1358.399,"endTime":1363.249,"body":"been challenging to, work both with the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1358.399,"endTime":1363.249,"body":"writers and with the climate experts."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1363.254,"endTime":1364.239,"body":"You put them in touch with."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1365.089,"endTime":1367.849,"body":"It was a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1365.089,"endTime":1367.849,"body":"challenge actually, because I"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1368.279,"endTime":1370.733,"body":"struggle myself writing eco fiction."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1371.043,"endTime":1374.513,"body":"And you can make a good story and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1371.043,"endTime":1374.513,"body":"get solutions in there and you often,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1374.513,"endTime":1376.313,"body":"something has to be sacrificed."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1376.324,"endTime":1380.284,"body":"And this is where you gotta think,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1376.324,"endTime":1380.284,"body":"well, first and foremost, the reader's"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1380.284,"endTime":1383.134,"body":"attention is the primary currency here."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1383.374,"endTime":1388.504,"body":"So unless it's really good in terms of"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1383.374,"endTime":1388.504,"body":"the writing, we're not gonna read on to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1388.504,"endTime":1391.084,"body":"find out all the marvelous solutions."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1391.106,"endTime":1393.746,"body":"But I also find that I can't"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1391.106,"endTime":1393.746,"body":"just rely on my judgment."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1393.776,"endTime":1397.016,"body":"I mean, what's amazing is"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1393.776,"endTime":1397.016,"body":"how people are so different."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1397.016,"endTime":1400.526,"body":"Like we've been gathering feedback"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1397.016,"endTime":1400.526,"body":"all the time on the different stories,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1400.856,"endTime":1402.596,"body":"and there's very little consensus."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1402.866,"endTime":1405.056,"body":"Someone says, oh, I hate this"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1402.866,"endTime":1405.056,"body":"one, but I love this one."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1405.056,"endTime":1407.126,"body":"And someone else will love"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1405.056,"endTime":1407.126,"body":"this and hate another."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1407.546,"endTime":1411.566,"body":"So there's a great diversity of stories"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1407.546,"endTime":1411.566,"body":"and I think that's its strength."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1411.571,"endTime":1413.046,"body":"There is something for everyone."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1413.051,"endTime":1415.766,"body":"There's a romances, there's tragedies."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1415.829,"endTime":1420.432,"body":"One of our other authors wrote,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1415.829,"endTime":1420.432,"body":"a beautiful story actually about"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1420.437,"endTime":1424.654,"body":"a man you know, rich guy, very"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1420.437,"endTime":1424.654,"body":"sort of self-interested in the oil"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1424.654,"endTime":1428.584,"body":"industry, but with a really lovely"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1424.654,"endTime":1428.584,"body":"wife who cares and inspired by her,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1429.859,"endTime":1431.359,"body":"know, he does wonderful things."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1431.364,"endTime":1436.189,"body":"He takes over an island, he transforms it"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1431.364,"endTime":1436.189,"body":"with mangrove, forests and so on, and then"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1436.189,"endTime":1438.199,"body":"at the end you find out his wife has died."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1438.499,"endTime":1441.559,"body":"And it's like, it was the story"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1438.499,"endTime":1441.559,"body":"that made me laugh at the start."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1441.559,"endTime":1443.329,"body":"And then by the end I was crying."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1443.629,"endTime":1447.049,"body":"And then I realized later"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1443.629,"endTime":1447.049,"body":"it was a true story."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1447.054,"endTime":1449.779,"body":"The reason he was writing this"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1447.054,"endTime":1449.779,"body":"in the first place, giving"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1449.779,"endTime":1452.164,"body":"his time to it was exactly."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1452.164,"endTime":1456.874,"body":"I mean he wasn't a rich millionaire  with"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1452.164,"endTime":1456.874,"body":"his own island, but in all other respects,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1456.874,"endTime":1458.674,"body":"the emotional truth of it was there."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1458.674,"endTime":1462.784,"body":"And you know, you find out about"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1458.674,"endTime":1462.784,"body":"people writing this cuz we always bring"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1462.784,"endTime":1464.704,"body":"something of ourselves to the story."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1465.914,"endTime":1466.249,"body":"fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1466.429,"endTime":1474.053,"body":"And of course we're in a time now where"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1466.429,"endTime":1474.053,"body":"people are more time poor and we've have,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1501.5230000000001,"endTime":1503.383,"body":"we have this whole attention economy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1503.683,"endTime":1507.913,"body":"So I think the fact that they're short"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1503.683,"endTime":1507.913,"body":"stories, a series of short stories"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1507.913,"endTime":1512.113,"body":"as opposed to one long story probably"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1507.913,"endTime":1512.113,"body":"makes it more digestible as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1512.113,"endTime":1513.5430000000001,"body":"Easy to, to get through, no?."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1514.553,"endTime":1515.0430000000001,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1515.353,"endTime":1516.223,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1517.2730000000001,"endTime":1519.673,"body":"And, and part of"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1517.2730000000001,"endTime":1519.673,"body":"the intention is that the story"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1519.673,"endTime":1521.863,"body":"should become Netflix programs."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1521.923,"endTime":1526.6190000000001,"body":"So in the corner of my mind was that,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1521.923,"endTime":1526.6190000000001,"body":"Black Mirror is a really good model."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1527.0990000000002,"endTime":1530.839,"body":"And so we want Black Mirror for climate"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1527.0990000000002,"endTime":1530.839,"body":"crisis stories, you know, where you"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1530.839,"endTime":1534.703,"body":"show these are the steps that need"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1530.839,"endTime":1534.703,"body":"to go through and and sometimes"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1534.703,"endTime":1536.563,"body":"you win and sometimes you lose."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1536.953,"endTime":1540.8110000000001,"body":"But those kind of topics, there's"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1536.953,"endTime":1540.8110000000001,"body":"very little in the larger media"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1540.8110000000001,"endTime":1542.944,"body":"about, the climate crisis."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1542.944,"endTime":1547.084,"body":"You know, there's, there's loads of"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1542.944,"endTime":1547.084,"body":"crimes, there's loads of forensic stuff."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1547.089,"endTime":1552.094,"body":"There's more cooking programs than you"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1547.089,"endTime":1552.094,"body":"can shake a dog at, but there's very"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1552.0990000000002,"endTime":1557.419,"body":"little about, actually, the mindset that's"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1552.0990000000002,"endTime":1557.419,"body":"needed to get through the climate crisis."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1558.169,"endTime":1561.8590000000002,"body":"So one, one of the objectives that I"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1558.169,"endTime":1561.8590000000002,"body":"had for with the stories was to, to"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1561.8590000000002,"endTime":1567.079,"body":"write about lots of different types of"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1561.8590000000002,"endTime":1567.079,"body":"characters so that when someone sees the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1567.079,"endTime":1570.769,"body":"stories or hears them or reads them, they"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1567.079,"endTime":1570.769,"body":"can say, oh, you've got an accountant"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1570.769,"endTime":1572.659,"body":"in this one . I'm an accountant."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1573.019,"endTime":1573.909,"body":"I can do that."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1574.266,"endTime":1575.9460000000001,"body":"I wanna stop doing what I'm doing."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1576.2160000000001,"endTime":1579.126,"body":"I'm gonna find a company that's"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1576.2160000000001,"endTime":1579.126,"body":"doing the climate stuff and"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1579.126,"endTime":1580.276,"body":"I'm gonna be their accountant."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1580.7160000000001,"endTime":1586.9260000000002,"body":"And get people to say, yeah, my"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1580.7160000000001,"endTime":1586.9260000000002,"body":"whole career is going to be that now."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1587.346,"endTime":1591.862,"body":"So when, when we've been doing work"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1587.346,"endTime":1591.862,"body":"with startups and various uh, seeking"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1591.862,"endTime":1596.452,"body":"financing, so on, we've come across quite"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1591.862,"endTime":1596.452,"body":"a few people who are in that position."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1596.842,"endTime":1602.692,"body":"But only because we're speaking to VCs and"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1596.842,"endTime":1602.692,"body":"those kind of guys, the vast majority of"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1602.692,"endTime":1604.615,"body":"the population isn't coming across that."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1605.057,"endTime":1609.5910000000001,"body":"And we need to get the point where,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1605.057,"endTime":1609.5910000000001,"body":"10 people are working on a climate"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1609.5910000000001,"endTime":1614.451,"body":"crisis, just off the top of your head,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1609.5910000000001,"endTime":1614.451,"body":"whoever you are rather than nobody knows"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1614.451,"endTime":1616.281,"body":"anybody and nobody's doing anything."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1616.506,"endTime":1616.776,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1617.136,"endTime":1617.7060000000001,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1617.721,"endTime":1618.8310000000001,"body":"That would be wonderful."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1618.913,"endTime":1622.9080000000001,"body":"To have a Netflix series like Green Mirror"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1618.913,"endTime":1622.9080000000001,"body":"It, it is perfectly designed for that."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1622.915,"endTime":1626.7250000000001,"body":"And because we've got ones with,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1622.915,"endTime":1626.7250000000001,"body":"young characters where the, you"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1626.7250000000001,"endTime":1629.815,"body":"know, the main character's, 18,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1626.7250000000001,"endTime":1629.815,"body":"we've got ones with old characters."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1629.815,"endTime":1631.285,"body":"We've got a real diversity."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1631.285,"endTime":1636.4750000000001,"body":"It's set in all different countries,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1631.285,"endTime":1636.4750000000001,"body":"from Egypt to Australia to America to uk."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1636.9550000000002,"endTime":1640.585,"body":"It would be a, a lovely"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1636.9550000000002,"endTime":1640.585,"body":"sort of jigsaw of solutions."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1640.5900000000001,"endTime":1644.553,"body":"And we've got a backup webpage"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1640.5900000000001,"endTime":1644.553,"body":"as well where, if anyone likes a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1644.553,"endTime":1647.703,"body":"story, they can click on it, they"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1644.553,"endTime":1647.703,"body":"can find out more about the story."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1647.733,"endTime":1652.5330000000001,"body":"Many have audio versions they can"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1647.733,"endTime":1652.5330000000001,"body":"access, and then any solutions that"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1652.5330000000001,"endTime":1655.461,"body":"they want to progress they can click"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1652.5330000000001,"endTime":1655.461,"body":"on the website and they can think,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1655.461,"endTime":1656.781,"body":"well, how can I make this happen?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1656.781,"endTime":1659.631,"body":"And we've sort of put all the ideas"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1656.781,"endTime":1659.631,"body":"we can think of, whether you are a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1659.636,"endTime":1665.0610000000001,"body":"funder, policymaker, business member"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1659.636,"endTime":1665.0610000000001,"body":"of the public, you know what you"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1665.0610000000001,"endTime":1667.3110000000001,"body":"can do to help make this happen."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1667.3110000000001,"endTime":1671.451,"body":"So we are really trying to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1667.3110000000001,"endTime":1671.451,"body":"tie these ideas to solutions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1671.906,"endTime":1673.406,"body":"Cool, cool, cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1673.406,"endTime":1674.816,"body":"And where to from here?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1675.719,"endTime":1678.009,"body":"Well, Steve,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1675.719,"endTime":1678.009,"body":"you are a man of big dreams."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1678.3590000000002,"endTime":1680.1190000000001,"body":"The Netflix"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1678.3590000000002,"endTime":1680.1190000000001,"body":"series we've already heard of"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1681.1190000000001,"endTime":1681.3890000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1681.3890000000001,"endTime":1682.589,"body":"So wanna do Netflix?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1682.6490000000001,"endTime":1682.969,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1682.9840000000002,"endTime":1685.534,"body":"The, the Titanic story"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1682.9840000000002,"endTime":1685.534,"body":"particularly, which we've already"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1685.534,"endTime":1687.2340000000002,"body":"talked about, be ideal for that."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1687.444,"endTime":1690.806,"body":"So there'd be a nice little film"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1687.444,"endTime":1690.806,"body":"in there with Leonardo di Caprio"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1691.156,"endTime":1693.9080000000001,"body":"and so on So that'll be great."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1694.2720000000002,"endTime":1699.082,"body":"The Refreezing The Arctic stories,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1694.2720000000002,"endTime":1699.082,"body":"though we're speaking with a company,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1699.159,"endTime":1703.179,"body":"which is at the moment in the process"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1699.159,"endTime":1703.179,"body":"of raising money to do exactly that."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1703.719,"endTime":1706.3890000000001,"body":"So you spoke to David King"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1703.719,"endTime":1706.3890000000001,"body":"last year, didn't you?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1706.394,"endTime":1710.563,"body":"So, David works with this group and"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1706.394,"endTime":1710.563,"body":"we were talking to them and they see,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1710.683,"endTime":1717.373,"body":"oh, so we'll keep using the stories to"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1710.683,"endTime":1717.373,"body":"illustrate what they want to attempt to"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1717.373,"endTime":1720.046,"body":"do because as well as ocean as a nation."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1720.616,"endTime":1726.039,"body":"We believe Refreezing, the Arctic is now"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1720.616,"endTime":1726.039,"body":"absolutely central, if we're going to"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1726.0520000000001,"endTime":1728.096,"body":"get control of the uh, the climate again."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1728.606,"endTime":1732.536,"body":"So again, from our Herculean Climate"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1728.606,"endTime":1732.536,"body":"Solutions point of view, there's"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1732.536,"endTime":1737.1860000000001,"body":"four things we need to do to fix the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1732.536,"endTime":1737.1860000000001,"body":"climate crisis, which are reduced"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1737.191,"endTime":1742.136,"body":"consumption, switch to renewables,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1737.191,"endTime":1742.136,"body":"remove co2 and refreeze the Arctic."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1742.556,"endTime":1745.299,"body":"And we're not gonna like any"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1742.556,"endTime":1745.299,"body":"of them, they're all difficult."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1745.759,"endTime":1749.374,"body":"But oddly, I think refreeze the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1745.759,"endTime":1749.374,"body":"Arctic is something we can do"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1749.884,"endTime":1751.424,"body":"relatively straightforwardly."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1751.444,"endTime":1755.704,"body":"You know, if you go above 75 degrees"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1751.444,"endTime":1755.704,"body":"north, nobody lives up there at all."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1755.9740000000002,"endTime":1759.4840000000002,"body":"There's no indigenous question"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1755.9740000000002,"endTime":1759.4840000000002,"body":"really, because it's too cold"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1759.4840000000002,"endTime":1760.915,"body":"for people to live up there."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1760.922,"endTime":1765.2720000000002,"body":"So you get to 80 degrees north and some"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1760.922,"endTime":1765.2720000000002,"body":"of the furthest islands and just start"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1765.2720000000002,"endTime":1766.952,"body":"producing large quantities of ice."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1767.353,"endTime":1771.852,"body":"And/or doing the the cloud brightening"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1767.353,"endTime":1771.852,"body":"that they're also talking about and"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1771.852,"endTime":1775.332,"body":"finding some other solutions that"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1771.852,"endTime":1775.332,"body":"we've yet to develop, you know, but"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1775.382,"endTime":1780.252,"body":"putting big equipment and tough teams"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1775.382,"endTime":1780.252,"body":"up there and throwing, billions of"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1780.252,"endTime":1785.502,"body":"dollars at it, will produce lots of"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1780.252,"endTime":1785.502,"body":"ice and we'll buy us a bit of time."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1786.372,"endTime":1790.298,"body":"So my plan is to try"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1786.372,"endTime":1790.298,"body":"and promote the anthology No More"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1790.298,"endTime":1794.238,"body":"Fairy Tales - Stories to Save Our"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1790.298,"endTime":1794.238,"body":"Planet and try and get wide readership"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1794.238,"endTime":1795.738,"body":"of that, and engagement with it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1796.188,"endTime":1800.268,"body":"And use it as a resource to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1796.188,"endTime":1800.268,"body":"raise awareness of the issues."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1800.6280000000002,"endTime":1804.678,"body":"So I'm particularly keen on"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1800.6280000000002,"endTime":1804.678,"body":"citizens, juries or assemblies."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1805.058,"endTime":1806.858,"body":"Getting proper legislative power."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1807.1580000000001,"endTime":1810.218,"body":"And it's a really great time to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1807.1580000000001,"endTime":1810.218,"body":"be spreading that message because"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1810.218,"endTime":1814.718,"body":"I think when we look at political"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1810.218,"endTime":1814.718,"body":"leadership internationally, it's"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1814.718,"endTime":1818.828,"body":"not necessarily going in the right"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1814.718,"endTime":1818.828,"body":"directions, we want it to, and if it"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1818.828,"endTime":1823.088,"body":"does, it then swings right back and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1818.828,"endTime":1823.088,"body":"we're back where we started and, and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1823.238,"endTime":1826.208,"body":"you, you can't ignore this as an issue."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1826.808,"endTime":1830.453,"body":"So, I'm very keen to, to use"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1826.808,"endTime":1830.453,"body":"the, the book as a resource."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1830.862,"endTime":1832.063,"body":"I'm working with Vesta."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1832.7430000000002,"endTime":1837.1380000000001,"body":"And Albert, who are the sustainability"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1832.7430000000002,"endTime":1837.1380000000001,"body":"wing on editorial content."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1837.1380000000001,"endTime":1840.2820000000002,"body":"We're doing a project called hashtag"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1837.1380000000001,"endTime":1840.2820000000002,"body":"Climate Characters where we're"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1840.2820000000002,"endTime":1844.512,"body":"raising awareness of the, the role"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1840.2820000000002,"endTime":1844.512,"body":"of fictional characters in either"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1845.0520000000001,"endTime":1849.492,"body":"presenting  excessive consumption as"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1845.0520000000001,"endTime":1849.492,"body":"an aspiration, you know, your female"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1849.492,"endTime":1853.722,"body":"characters with walk-in wardrobes and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1849.492,"endTime":1853.722,"body":"male characters, private jets, and so on."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1854.256,"endTime":1855.856,"body":"Or the other way around quite often."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1856.175,"endTime":1858.326,"body":"You know, is that, is"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1856.175,"endTime":1858.326,"body":"that problematic now?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1858.326,"endTime":1863.5030000000002,"body":"And they invited me to participate"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1858.326,"endTime":1863.5030000000002,"body":"in this competition that's taking"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1863.5030000000002,"endTime":1868.0330000000001,"body":"place, and I'm looking to develop"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1863.5030000000002,"endTime":1868.0330000000001,"body":"scripts that embed climate solutions."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1868.0330000000001,"endTime":1873.137,"body":"So Habitat Man is a book I wrote"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1868.0330000000001,"endTime":1873.137,"body":"about a guy who gives up his job to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1873.137,"endTime":1875.057,"body":"help make gardens wildlife friendly."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1875.117,"endTime":1879.972,"body":"That's going in there . And also"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1875.117,"endTime":1879.972,"body":"I'm rewriting the assassin as a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1879.972,"endTime":1884.073,"body":"TV series to the Who Done Its, cuz"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1879.972,"endTime":1884.073,"body":"Who Done Its are really in at the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1884.073,"endTime":1889.028,"body":"moment as a lovely way to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1884.073,"endTime":1889.028,"body":"engage people in climate solutions."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1889.028,"endTime":1892.448,"body":"So I'm hoping that this will"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1889.028,"endTime":1892.448,"body":"raise awareness of the issues"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1892.448,"endTime":1896.318,"body":"themselves and generate a sort of"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1892.448,"endTime":1896.318,"body":"bottom up idea, hang on a minute."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1896.528,"endTime":1901.328,"body":"We need to be more transformative"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1896.528,"endTime":1901.328,"body":"than just tinkering around the edges."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1901.8980000000001,"endTime":1903.008,"body":"So big dreams."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1903.188,"endTime":1903.608,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1903.728,"endTime":1904.088,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1904.8680000000002,"endTime":1907.6280000000002,"body":"We're coming towards the end"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1904.8680000000002,"endTime":1907.6280000000002,"body":"of the podcast now, folks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1908.1680000000001,"endTime":1913.1480000000001,"body":"Is there any question that I have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1908.1680000000001,"endTime":1913.1480000000001,"body":"not asked that you wish I had or any"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1913.1480000000001,"endTime":1916.478,"body":"aspect of this we haven't touched"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1913.1480000000001,"endTime":1916.478,"body":"on that you think it's important for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1916.478,"endTime":1918.1280000000002,"body":"people to be aware of or think about?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1918.9360000000001,"endTime":1922.287,"body":"Well, where to buy the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1918.9360000000001,"endTime":1922.287,"body":"book So, there's a number of places."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1922.287,"endTime":1927.477,"body":"OurGreenStories.org.uk is the website"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1922.287,"endTime":1927.477,"body":"for the Green Stories project."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1927.482,"endTime":1929.1870000000001,"body":"And we've got link to the book there."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1929.6670000000001,"endTime":1930.087,"body":"We've got it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1930.087,"endTime":1933.4470000000001,"body":"This is anthology for Cop 27"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1930.087,"endTime":1933.4470000000001,"body":"cuz that's how it started."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1933.9270000000001,"endTime":1938.8990000000001,"body":"And our publications Habitat"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1933.9270000000001,"endTime":1938.8990000000001,"body":"press.com  is the publisher."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1938.8990000000001,"endTime":1939.319,"body":"We can get it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1939.324,"endTime":1941.669,"body":"And also it's available now on Amazon."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1942.679,"endTime":1944.829,"body":"So I think that's, that's quite important."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1945.559,"endTime":1946.3990000000001,"body":"Steve, anything else?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1947.692,"endTime":1951.5130000000001,"body":"Going back to your question"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1947.692,"endTime":1951.5130000000001,"body":"earlier Tom, about What's the longer term?"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1951.663,"endTime":1955.233,"body":"You know, I think it, it's important"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1951.663,"endTime":1955.233,"body":"that we think in terms of solutions"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1955.233,"endTime":1958.383,"body":"that are big enough to actually"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1955.233,"endTime":1958.383,"body":"solve the whole problem or, make"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1958.383,"endTime":1960.063,"body":"an enormous contribution to it."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1960.453,"endTime":1963.723,"body":"So little bits don't"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1960.453,"endTime":1963.723,"body":"make enough difference."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1963.723,"endTime":1967.3120000000001,"body":"You know, we need to think in terms"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1963.723,"endTime":1967.3120000000001,"body":"of very large Geo-engineering scale"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1967.3120000000001,"endTime":1971.938,"body":"changes and we've been geo-engineering"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1967.3120000000001,"endTime":1971.938,"body":"earth at least 10,000 years."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1972.238,"endTime":1977.758,"body":"This is geo engineering a number of forms,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1972.238,"endTime":1977.758,"body":"and one of the crucial things that I think"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1977.758,"endTime":1982.798,"body":"we need to do is accept the fact that we"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1977.758,"endTime":1982.798,"body":"need to try an awful lot of experiments"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1983.188,"endTime":1984.6180000000002,"body":"and that they're not all gonna work."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1985.1280000000002,"endTime":1988.848,"body":"Some of them are gonna be a"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1985.1280000000002,"endTime":1988.848,"body":"bit untidy and do that at the"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1989.308,"endTime":1990.678,"body":"thousand ton a year kind of scale."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1990.678,"endTime":1995.101,"body":"So XPRIZE was running a scheme to"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1990.678,"endTime":1995.101,"body":"do thousand ton a year projects."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1995.671,"endTime":1999.271,"body":"A thousand ton a year of CO2"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1995.671,"endTime":1999.271,"body":"removal is the same as running"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":1999.271,"endTime":2000.351,"body":"three trucks for a year."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2001.0410000000002,"endTime":2006.381,"body":"So it's not, not a very big project,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2001.0410000000002,"endTime":2006.381,"body":"and we need to pour money on as many"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2006.381,"endTime":2009.921,"body":"of those projects as we can find,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2006.381,"endTime":2009.921,"body":"because there just isn't the time"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2010.191,"endTime":2013.401,"body":"to do all the little picking and"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2010.191,"endTime":2013.401,"body":"judging and all that sort of stuff."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2013.406,"endTime":2016.521,"body":"We need to open the fire"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2013.406,"endTime":2016.521,"body":"hydrant and knock people."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2016.521,"endTime":2021.1670000000001,"body":"Let me down the ground with it, you"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2016.521,"endTime":2021.1670000000001,"body":"know, as we need to fund lots of projects"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2021.4370000000001,"endTime":2023.597,"body":"across a very broad front, very quickly."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2023.8970000000002,"endTime":2024.922,"body":"We've been far too timid."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2025.672,"endTime":2026.0320000000002,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2026.392,"endTime":2026.752,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2027.027,"endTime":2027.267,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2028.152,"endTime":2028.902,"body":"Oh, not nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2031.767,"endTime":2032.217,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2032.223,"endTime":2036.056,"body":"Folks, at this point in the podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2032.223,"endTime":2036.056,"body":"I normally say to people, if people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2036.056,"endTime":2040.556,"body":"want to know more about yourselves"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2036.056,"endTime":2040.556,"body":"or the book or any of the stuff"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2040.556,"endTime":2042.626,"body":"we discussed on the podcast, where"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2040.556,"endTime":2042.626,"body":"would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2042.626,"endTime":2045.656,"body":"You've all me already mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2042.626,"endTime":2045.656,"body":"a couple of links to the book."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2045.7160000000001,"endTime":2049.886,"body":"Are there any other sites or links"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2045.7160000000001,"endTime":2049.886,"body":"about yourselves or about the book"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2049.886,"endTime":2051.156,"body":"or anything else you want to mention."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2052.346,"endTime":2057.9139999999998,"body":"So look, well, I'm myself,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2052.346,"endTime":2057.9139999999998,"body":"the work I do is on da baden.com."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2057.967,"endTime":2061.5969999999998,"body":"The publishers habitat press.com"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2057.967,"endTime":2061.5969999999998,"body":"and the green stories project"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2061.5969999999998,"endTime":2063.937,"body":"is green stories.org.uk"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2064.842,"endTime":2065.142,"body":"Lovely."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2065.142,"endTime":2065.502,"body":"And Steve"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2065.8269999999998,"endTime":2068.237,"body":"and I'm"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2065.8269999999998,"endTime":2068.237,"body":"easily found on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2069.942,"endTime":2070.2419999999997,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2070.482,"endTime":2070.692,"body":"I l"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2070.897,"endTime":2071.247,"body":"an engineer."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2072.3869999999997,"endTime":2073.857,"body":"Twitter is a mystery to me."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2076.497,"endTime":2077.5170000000003,"body":"It's becoming more,"},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2077.697,"endTime":2078.827,"body":"understand how that works at"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2078.867,"endTime":2080.877,"body":"it's becoming more"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2078.867,"endTime":2080.877,"body":"mysterious to all of us every day."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2080.877,"endTime":2083.817,"body":"Anyway, try Mastodon it's getting better."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2084.17,"endTime":2085.79,"body":"Okay, that's brilliant folks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2085.79,"endTime":2088.58,"body":"I'll have those links in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2085.79,"endTime":2088.58,"body":"show notes of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2088.58,"endTime":2089.4500000000003,"body":"So thank you for that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2089.96,"endTime":2092.972,"body":"And thank you both for your time"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2089.96,"endTime":2092.972,"body":"and for coming on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2093.692,"endTime":2094.262,"body":"Thank you, Tom."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2095.102,"endTime":2095.852,"body":"You're very welcome."},{"speaker":"Steve Willis","startTime":2095.852,"endTime":2096.572,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2097.702,"endTime":2099.592,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2097.702,"endTime":2099.592,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2100.282,"endTime":2101.422,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2102.262,"endTime":2105.172,"body":"If you'd like to know more about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2102.262,"endTime":2105.172,"body":"the Climate Confident podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2105.352,"endTime":2111.082,"body":"feel free to drop me an email"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2105.352,"endTime":2111.082,"body":"to Tom raftery@outlook.com."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2111.652,"endTime":2114.082,"body":"Or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2114.646,"endTime":2118.366,"body":"If you like the show, please, don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2114.646,"endTime":2118.366,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2118.366,"endTime":2122.896,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2118.366,"endTime":2122.896,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2123.526,"endTime":2126.466,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2123.526,"endTime":2126.466,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2126.676,"endTime":2129.376,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2126.676,"endTime":2129.376,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2130.276,"endTime":2132.3160000000003,"body":"Thanks, catch you all next time."}]}