{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":3.778,"endTime":7.708,"body":"The idea of citizen"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":3.778,"endTime":7.708,"body":"assemblies as a great medium to get"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":7.708,"endTime":12.628,"body":"well-informed, long-term sustainable"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":7.708,"endTime":12.628,"body":"decisions, I think that case has been"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":12.628,"endTime":14.248,"body":"answered by a lot of the research."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":14.821,"endTime":19.561,"body":"The next step now is to give them more"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":14.821,"endTime":19.561,"body":"power because it's such a waste of all"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":19.561,"endTime":25.111,"body":"those resources and that energy, if they"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":19.561,"endTime":25.111,"body":"come up with great ideas that then don't"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":25.111,"endTime":30.061,"body":"get implemented, because of the short-term"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":25.111,"endTime":30.061,"body":"goals of the government's in power."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.179,"endTime":32.279,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.179,"endTime":32.279,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":32.279,"endTime":33.809,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.109,"endTime":36.239,"body":"This is the Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.479,"endTime":40.109,"body":"The number one podcast, showcasing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.479,"endTime":40.109,"body":"best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":40.109,"endTime":41.789,"body":"emission, reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.179,"endTime":44.069,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":44.278,"endTime":48.058,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":44.278,"endTime":48.058,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.178,"endTime":50.578,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.858,"endTime":52.398,"body":"Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":52.398,"endTime":56.358,"body":"Welcome to episode 109 of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":52.398,"endTime":56.358,"body":"Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":56.448,"endTime":57.978,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.978,"endTime":62.328,"body":"And before we start, I'd just like to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.978,"endTime":62.328,"body":"welcome a new supporter of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":62.478,"endTime":63.348,"body":"Jerry Sweeney."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":63.978,"endTime":67.008,"body":"Jerry signed up in the last few"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":63.978,"endTime":67.008,"body":"days to support the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":67.038,"endTime":68.328,"body":"Thanks so much for that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":68.328,"endTime":69.618,"body":"Jerry much appreciated."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.918,"endTime":74.178,"body":"I've added Jerry's name to the list of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.918,"endTime":74.178,"body":"supporters published in every episode."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.228,"endTime":77.688,"body":"If you'd like to sign up and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.228,"endTime":77.688,"body":"become a supporter of the podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":77.748,"endTime":81.498,"body":"to help me continue creating"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":77.748,"endTime":81.498,"body":"informative and engaging episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":82.098,"endTime":85.428,"body":"Simply click on the support link"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":82.098,"endTime":85.428,"body":"in the show notes of every episode."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":85.998,"endTime":89.898,"body":"Or go to tiny url.com/climate pod."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.828,"endTime":93.378,"body":"You can make a small donation"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.828,"endTime":93.378,"body":"starting at just three euros."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":93.408,"endTime":93.588,"body":"That's."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":93.978,"endTime":97.428,"body":"Less than the cost of a cup of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":93.978,"endTime":97.428,"body":"coffee, but every little bit helps."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":98.508,"endTime":98.778,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":98.778,"endTime":101.418,"body":"With that out of the way with"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":98.778,"endTime":101.418,"body":"me on the show today, I have my"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":101.418,"endTime":103.008,"body":"special guests, Denise and Matt."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":103.668,"endTime":105.528,"body":"Denise and Matt, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":105.528,"endTime":107.358,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourselves?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":107.908,"endTime":108.258,"body":"Hi."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":108.263,"endTime":108.628,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":108.633,"endTime":109.138,"body":"Hi Tom."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":109.221,"endTime":110.301,"body":"I'm Denise Baden."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":110.361,"endTime":114.201,"body":"I'm professor of Sustainable Practice"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":110.361,"endTime":114.201,"body":"at the University of Southampton."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":114.888,"endTime":115.738,"body":"Superb, Matt?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":116.358,"endTime":118.528,"body":"Yeah, I'm also at"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":116.358,"endTime":118.528,"body":"the University of Southampton."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":118.548,"endTime":121.308,"body":"I'm Associate Professor of Governance"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":118.548,"endTime":121.308,"body":"and Public Policy, and I work"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":121.368,"endTime":123.108,"body":"basically on problems of democracy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.61,"endTime":124.12,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":124.45,"endTime":127.72,"body":"And Denise, I should say welcome"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":124.45,"endTime":127.72,"body":"back to you cuz you were on the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":127.72,"endTime":130.9,"body":"podcast a couple of weeks back, when"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":127.72,"endTime":130.9,"body":"we were talking about the climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":130.9,"endTime":135.55,"body":"stories and one of them you had on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":130.9,"endTime":135.55,"body":"was talking about citizen assemblies."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":135.55,"endTime":139.36,"body":"So I said I'd invite you back and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":135.55,"endTime":139.36,"body":"we could dig into that a little bit"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":139.36,"endTime":142.33,"body":"more because it's an intriguing idea."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":142.72,"endTime":148.21,"body":"And, you know, maybe you'd like"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":142.72,"endTime":148.21,"body":"to first of all, remind people who"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":148.21,"endTime":151.42,"body":"might have heard that episode or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":148.21,"endTime":151.42,"body":"tell people who might have, who"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":151.42,"endTime":152.86,"body":"might not have heard that episode."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":153.34,"endTime":154.75,"body":"What is a citizen assembly?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":156.0,"endTime":156.36,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":156.36,"endTime":156.62,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":156.64,"endTime":161.44,"body":"So that anthology, we compiled, we, we"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":156.64,"endTime":161.44,"body":"got together load of climate experts"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":161.44,"endTime":165.64,"body":"and we say, what do you think are the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":161.44,"endTime":165.64,"body":"most transformative solutions to help us"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":165.64,"endTime":167.89,"body":"transition towards a, low carbon economy?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":168.31,"endTime":171.07,"body":"And we had some technical"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":168.31,"endTime":171.07,"body":"one and nature-based ones."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":171.37,"endTime":173.86,"body":"One of them was citizen assemblies."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":174.46,"endTime":179.17,"body":"So the anthology was called No More"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":174.46,"endTime":179.17,"body":"Fairy Tales, Stories to Save the Planet."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":179.671,"endTime":182.251,"body":"And one of the stories in there,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":179.671,"endTime":182.251,"body":"to be honest, it's the longest one."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":182.251,"endTime":183.721,"body":"It's more like a mini novella."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":184.201,"endTime":189.481,"body":"It assassin and it sets eight"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":184.201,"endTime":189.481,"body":"people in a citizen's jury there"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":189.481,"endTime":192.811,"body":"to debate climate solutions and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":189.481,"endTime":192.811,"body":"to make it fun for the reader."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":192.841,"endTime":195.481,"body":"It's a bit of a whodunnit,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":192.841,"endTime":195.481,"body":"and one of them, as the target"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":195.481,"endTime":197.041,"body":"suggests, is an assassin."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":197.811,"endTime":201.651,"body":"So that, that was my sort of"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":197.811,"endTime":201.651,"body":"introduction to citizen assemblies"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":202.018,"endTime":207.498,"body":"and I became utterly convinced that"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":202.018,"endTime":207.498,"body":"yes, it is a key climate solution."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":207.868,"endTime":211.258,"body":"When we look at all the other decisions"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":207.868,"endTime":211.258,"body":"and solutions that are out there."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":211.648,"endTime":215.758,"body":"First almost always, we need"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":211.648,"endTime":215.758,"body":"government to either create the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":215.758,"endTime":220.738,"body":"right regulatory framework for it,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":215.758,"endTime":220.738,"body":"or we need them to finance it or"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":220.738,"endTime":225.208,"body":"provide tax breaks or incentives"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":220.738,"endTime":225.208,"body":"or at least stop the disincentives."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":225.688,"endTime":229.438,"body":"We need them to be thinking beyond the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":225.688,"endTime":229.438,"body":"four year electoral cycle in Britain."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":229.958,"endTime":233.248,"body":"And time and time again they"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":229.958,"endTime":233.248,"body":"show they're not doing that."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":233.818,"endTime":238.401,"body":"And the idea of citizen assemblies"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":233.818,"endTime":238.401,"body":"is you get a diverse mix of people."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":239.196,"endTime":243.336,"body":"much more representative than our"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":239.196,"endTime":243.336,"body":"current governments, um, who are"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":243.336,"endTime":249.306,"body":"exposed to experts and information,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":243.336,"endTime":249.306,"body":"not so much vested interests."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":250.026,"endTime":252.576,"body":"you know, who can get access"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":250.026,"endTime":252.576,"body":"to politicians and they have"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":252.576,"endTime":254.136,"body":"the chance to deliberate."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":254.706,"endTime":258.986,"body":"So it's not about a sort of debate"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":254.706,"endTime":258.986,"body":"like, you know, party politics."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":259.356,"endTime":263.616,"body":"I'm gonna shout at you and I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":259.356,"endTime":263.616,"body":"shout back, but proper deliberative"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":263.646,"endTime":267.996,"body":"inquiry by a diverse group of"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":263.646,"endTime":267.996,"body":"individuals who care about their"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":267.996,"endTime":270.636,"body":"futures not winning the next election."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":271.176,"endTime":276.636,"body":"So I became utterly convinced that this is"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":271.176,"endTime":276.636,"body":"something we really need as a fundamental"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":276.641,"endTime":278.866,"body":"element of any climate solution."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":279.246,"endTime":283.116,"body":"So my key goal, I guess, in"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":279.246,"endTime":283.116,"body":"in writing that story, was"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":283.116,"endTime":284.556,"body":"to raise awareness of that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":285.183,"endTime":285.813,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":285.813,"endTime":292.923,"body":"And how would a citizen"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":285.813,"endTime":292.923,"body":"assembly enact anything?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":293.013,"endTime":296.943,"body":"I mean, it's great to get a group of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":293.013,"endTime":296.943,"body":"people together and have a chat and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":296.943,"endTime":300.363,"body":"say, oh, we should fix the climate,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":296.943,"endTime":300.363,"body":"but that doesn't fix the climate."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":302.053,"endTime":302.543,"body":"Well."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":303.168,"endTime":305.748,"body":"You would think you get a load"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":303.168,"endTime":305.748,"body":"of people together and they might"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":305.748,"endTime":308.808,"body":"just shout and have a go at each"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":305.748,"endTime":308.808,"body":"other, like in, in Parliament."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":309.078,"endTime":313.158,"body":"But actually the, the evidence shows"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":309.078,"endTime":313.158,"body":"that they do make, you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":313.158,"endTime":317.088,"body":"give them responsibility, they will"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":313.158,"endTime":317.088,"body":"take responsibility and do it well."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":317.088,"endTime":319.008,"body":"So, so Matt's the expert in that."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":319.013,"endTime":321.228,"body":"You, you'll know all the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":319.013,"endTime":321.228,"body":"case studies won't you, Matt?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":322.368,"endTime":326.343,"body":"Definitely a little bit So,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":322.368,"endTime":326.343,"body":"I think that's a really good question,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":326.348,"endTime":329.893,"body":"Tom, and, and, and Denise is outlined"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":326.348,"endTime":329.893,"body":"a couple of the real issues, and why I"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":329.893,"endTime":334.633,"body":"think what Denise is doing is fantastic,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":329.893,"endTime":334.633,"body":"is if you organize a climate assembly, as"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":334.633,"endTime":338.143,"body":"you said, it's not necessarily empowered,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":334.633,"endTime":338.143,"body":"you have to do a bit of work to actually"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":338.143,"endTime":341.693,"body":"get that, get the recommendations or"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":338.143,"endTime":341.693,"body":"whatever comes, whatever the product"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":341.693,"endTime":344.983,"body":"of the assembly is into policy"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":341.693,"endTime":344.983,"body":"making and, and have an effect."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":345.233,"endTime":351.818,"body":"One of the issues that has come for all"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":345.233,"endTime":351.818,"body":"assemblies is that they struggle to tell"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":351.818,"endTime":356.078,"body":"the story of, you know, what's going"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":351.818,"endTime":356.078,"body":"on inside them and, and project it."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":356.078,"endTime":359.758,"body":"So this podcast and the work that Denise"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":356.078,"endTime":359.758,"body":"is doing, writing short stories and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":359.773,"endTime":363.698,"body":"plays and everything like that, that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":359.773,"endTime":363.698,"body":"actually what's needed to, to build a"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":363.703,"endTime":367.448,"body":"kind of a public understanding to connect"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":363.703,"endTime":367.448,"body":"people with the decisions that are made."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":367.448,"endTime":372.806,"body":"So it's kind of easy to to, to make"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":367.448,"endTime":372.806,"body":"a very technocratic exercise but if"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":372.806,"endTime":376.406,"body":"people don't buy into what's going on"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":372.806,"endTime":376.406,"body":"and don't understand what's going on,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":376.406,"endTime":378.536,"body":"you just have the same problems as well."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":378.536,"endTime":381.01,"body":"So we can talk about how you,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":378.536,"endTime":381.01,"body":"convene these assemblies and how"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":381.015,"endTime":383.74,"body":"you select who goes into them and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":381.015,"endTime":383.74,"body":"how you decide what they talk about."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":383.74,"endTime":385.78,"body":"But at the end of the day,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":383.74,"endTime":385.78,"body":"something we've touched on"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":385.78,"endTime":387.49,"body":"immediately is what empowers them."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":387.49,"endTime":391.33,"body":"And actually it's a fundamental thing"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":387.49,"endTime":391.33,"body":"is that governments have to agree."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":391.33,"endTime":394.473,"body":"First of all, people who've got authority"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":391.33,"endTime":394.473,"body":"have to agree that they're going to,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":394.473,"endTime":397.878,"body":"implement something and it has to be"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":394.473,"endTime":397.878,"body":"feasible for them to do so with their,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":397.908,"endTime":401.038,"body":"within their jurisdiction and their"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":397.908,"endTime":401.038,"body":"powers and hold debate there about"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":401.058,"endTime":402.495,"body":"what, that should be and what it means."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":402.915,"endTime":405.525,"body":"But I think what Denise touched on,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":402.915,"endTime":405.525,"body":"which is really important, is that"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":405.525,"endTime":410.205,"body":"actually being able to communicate"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":405.525,"endTime":410.205,"body":"through these kind of media to people,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":410.805,"endTime":414.651,"body":"uh, and get them to understand, or"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":410.805,"endTime":414.651,"body":"try and connect with these new ways"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":414.651,"endTime":416.421,"body":"of doing politics is really important."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":416.571,"endTime":418.701,"body":"We're gonna solve the problems"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":416.571,"endTime":418.701,"body":"that we we're trying to solve."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":419.413,"endTime":422.803,"body":"Other places are"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":419.413,"endTime":422.803,"body":"ahead of us, so there's been"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":422.803,"endTime":424.693,"body":"loads of citizen assemblies."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":424.723,"endTime":426.733,"body":"Uh, I mean, Ireland's"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":424.723,"endTime":426.733,"body":"done a lot, haven't they?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":426.763,"endTime":431.173,"body":"Uh, Europe have done a lot, and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":426.763,"endTime":431.173,"body":"they've really made a, a difference."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":431.173,"endTime":433.153,"body":"So I think in France"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":431.173,"endTime":433.153,"body":"they, they're well ahead."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":433.453,"endTime":438.0,"body":"They're, they're more established, I think"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":433.453,"endTime":438.0,"body":"in Poland they have actual power, so, the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":438.0,"endTime":443.19,"body":"problem has been we can show they will"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":438.0,"endTime":443.19,"body":"make good decisions but then they need to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":443.19,"endTime":445.29,"body":"connect, as Matt was saying, to policy."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":445.32,"endTime":447.0,"body":"And that's where the gap has been."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":447.523,"endTime":451.213,"body":"We run them here, but it doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":447.523,"endTime":451.213,"body":"that the government will implement them."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":451.243,"endTime":454.283,"body":"They might take them just like they"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":451.243,"endTime":454.283,"body":"take a lot of committee proposals."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":454.288,"endTime":458.376,"body":"Oh, that's nice, but there's no"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":454.288,"endTime":458.376,"body":"real legislative authority there."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":458.466,"endTime":464.376,"body":"So I think the idea of citizen assemblies"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":458.466,"endTime":464.376,"body":"as a great medium to get well-informed,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":465.081,"endTime":467.101,"body":"long-term sustainable decisions."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":467.106,"endTime":469.911,"body":"I, I think that case has been"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":467.106,"endTime":469.911,"body":"answered by a lot of the research."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":470.511,"endTime":474.951,"body":"The, the next step now is to give"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":470.511,"endTime":474.951,"body":"them more power because it's such"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":474.951,"endTime":478.911,"body":"a waste of all those resources and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":474.951,"endTime":478.911,"body":"that energy, if they come up with"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":478.911,"endTime":483.981,"body":"great ideas that then don't get"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":478.911,"endTime":483.981,"body":"implemented, because of the short-term"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":483.986,"endTime":486.141,"body":"goals of the government's in power."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":487.046,"endTime":493.786,"body":"Okay, we'll dig into that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":487.046,"endTime":493.786,"body":"in a sec, but before that I want to dig"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":493.786,"endTime":500.536,"body":"a little further into how do we decide"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":493.786,"endTime":500.536,"body":"who goes into the citizens Assembly?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":500.896,"endTime":506.686,"body":"And also, I mean, Denise, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":500.896,"endTime":506.686,"body":"that they are addressed by all these"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":506.686,"endTime":508.306,"body":"experts on these different topics."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":508.516,"endTime":509.866,"body":"Who picks the experts?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":509.871,"endTime":512.906,"body":"Because who decides what an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":509.871,"endTime":512.906,"body":"expert is in any particular topic?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":513.106,"endTime":513.976,"body":"How does that all work?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":515.071,"endTime":517.531,"body":"Well, I know that"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":515.071,"endTime":517.531,"body":"Sortition are a group and then"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":544.971,"endTime":547.2810000000001,"body":"they propose random selection."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":547.931,"endTime":553.2080000000001,"body":"like a, a lottery but the idea is"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":547.931,"endTime":553.2080000000001,"body":"that it represent the proportion"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":553.778,"endTime":557.1510000000001,"body":"of people in the country or the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":553.778,"endTime":557.1510000000001,"body":"locality that they're doing it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":557.7810000000001,"endTime":559.6410000000001,"body":"So that's one model."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":559.6410000000001,"endTime":560.961,"body":"Do you know of any other models Matt?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":561.9780000000001,"endTime":562.2080000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":562.2080000000001,"endTime":565.658,"body":"So I think it's worth taking a small"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":562.2080000000001,"endTime":565.658,"body":"step back and thinking like, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":565.658,"endTime":566.8280000000001,"body":"know, where does this come from?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":566.8280000000001,"endTime":570.278,"body":"So, obviously I think what you are learned"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":566.8280000000001,"endTime":570.278,"body":"that's really important Denise is that"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":570.278,"endTime":573.6980000000001,"body":"one of the way that we've done politics,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":570.278,"endTime":573.6980000000001,"body":"democratic politics for a long time is"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":573.6980000000001,"endTime":575.738,"body":"that we elect people every few years."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":576.278,"endTime":579.8480000000001,"body":"So, you know, the idea, and it's a really"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":576.278,"endTime":579.8480000000001,"body":"important idea, is that, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":579.8480000000001,"endTime":582.8180000000001,"body":"you're not happy with what's going on,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":579.8480000000001,"endTime":582.8180000000001,"body":"you can throw the rascals out as they put"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":582.8180000000001,"endTime":585.09,"body":"it every four years and, and fix things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":585.09,"endTime":588.37,"body":"But what what ends up happening of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":585.09,"endTime":588.37,"body":"course, is power gets entrenched"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":588.446,"endTime":591.2460000000001,"body":"within certain people and they"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":588.446,"endTime":591.2460000000001,"body":"kind of continue doing that."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":591.2460000000001,"endTime":594.3860000000001,"body":"And this electorate cycle, we know"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":591.2460000000001,"endTime":594.3860000000001,"body":"that it's not dealing with the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":594.3860000000001,"endTime":597.7760000000001,"body":"challenge that we face in terms"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":594.3860000000001,"endTime":597.7760000000001,"body":"of long-term action on climate."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":597.7760000000001,"endTime":599.216,"body":"So there has to be something different."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":599.7560000000001,"endTime":601.226,"body":"Governments have tried"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":599.7560000000001,"endTime":601.226,"body":"all kinds of things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":601.226,"endTime":604.7360000000001,"body":"Like the classic thing is you set up the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":601.226,"endTime":604.7360000000001,"body":"Environmental Protection Agency and you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":604.7660000000001,"endTime":608.336,"body":"give a bunch of technocrats or experts"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":604.7660000000001,"endTime":608.336,"body":"and that that works to an extent, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":608.336,"endTime":608.666,"body":"It does."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":609.0260000000001,"endTime":611.936,"body":"I mean, if we didn't have those"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":609.0260000000001,"endTime":611.936,"body":"agencies and experts doing"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":611.936,"endTime":613.2860000000001,"body":"this work, we'd be in trouble."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":614.101,"endTime":617.868,"body":"But the issue is oftentime,  it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":614.101,"endTime":617.868,"body":"still a small biased group of people."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":618.5880000000001,"endTime":621.388,"body":"When you have these, you, you asked"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":618.5880000000001,"endTime":621.388,"body":"about experts, it's still a small"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":621.388,"endTime":624.0780000000001,"body":"biased group of people who have their"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":621.388,"endTime":624.0780000000001,"body":"own, you know, most people who are"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":624.0780000000001,"endTime":627.5880000000001,"body":"scientists, you know, we're boffins,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":624.0780000000001,"endTime":627.5880000000001,"body":"that's hang around universities talk"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":627.5880000000001,"endTime":630.8580000000001,"body":"to each other, and we don't go out"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":627.5880000000001,"endTime":630.8580000000001,"body":"into the wild and talk to real people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":630.8580000000001,"endTime":632.5980000000001,"body":"and the concerns that they have."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":632.5980000000001,"endTime":635.4000000000001,"body":"And so many of the challenges"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":632.5980000000001,"endTime":635.4000000000001,"body":"around climate change are"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":635.4000000000001,"endTime":636.6600000000001,"body":"so multi-faceted, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":636.6600000000001,"endTime":639.2900000000001,"body":"The fact that someone is car"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":636.6600000000001,"endTime":639.2900000000001,"body":"dependent in a suburb in, in one"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":639.2900000000001,"endTime":642.11,"body":"part of the city might not affect"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":639.2900000000001,"endTime":642.11,"body":"someone in another part of the city."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":642.62,"endTime":644.36,"body":"You need to get them together in some way."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":645.1300000000001,"endTime":648.84,"body":"There's a long history of kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":645.1300000000001,"endTime":648.84,"body":"random selection or rotation or"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":648.84,"endTime":650.7,"body":"sortition as, as Denise put it."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":651.373,"endTime":653.5780000000001,"body":"It comes back from the days of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":651.373,"endTime":653.5780000000001,"body":"ancient Athens, and they had no"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":653.5780000000001,"endTime":655.3480000000001,"body":"idea about probability theorems."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":655.408,"endTime":657.8380000000001,"body":"You know, they might have had a sense"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":655.408,"endTime":657.8380000000001,"body":"it, but they hadn't written down the,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":658.1080000000001,"endTime":659.788,"body":"the equations or anything at that point."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":660.388,"endTime":662.9680000000001,"body":"But what they did get was that"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":660.388,"endTime":662.9680000000001,"body":"there's something to be gained from"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":662.9680000000001,"endTime":666.1780000000001,"body":"excluding people from decisions."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":666.238,"endTime":669.298,"body":"And I think that's the real magic"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":666.238,"endTime":669.298,"body":"of the climate assembly for me is"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":669.298,"endTime":672.538,"body":"it's actually something to do with"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":669.298,"endTime":672.538,"body":"exclusion rather than inclusion."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":672.8080000000001,"endTime":674.3380000000001,"body":"It's a systematic exclusion."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":674.7280000000001,"endTime":678.48,"body":"So what I mean by that is that you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":674.7280000000001,"endTime":678.48,"body":"you make sure that the elites who are"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":678.48,"endTime":681.99,"body":"always making the decisions have exactly"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":678.48,"endTime":681.99,"body":"the same chance of being involved as"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":681.99,"endTime":685.4100000000001,"body":"the people who don't normally get to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":681.99,"endTime":685.4100000000001,"body":"make decisions and don't get included."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":685.71,"endTime":688.86,"body":"So you're systematically excluding"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":685.71,"endTime":688.86,"body":"the elites that do this all the time."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":689.34,"endTime":692.19,"body":"I think that's, a really"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":689.34,"endTime":692.19,"body":"important thing to, to focus on."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":692.5500000000001,"endTime":694.4300000000001,"body":"I mean, you could talk"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":692.5500000000001,"endTime":694.4300000000001,"body":"about the representativity."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":695.07,"endTime":695.6700000000001,"body":"It's really good."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":695.6700000000001,"endTime":699.0200000000001,"body":"You do get a different kind of look"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":695.6700000000001,"endTime":699.0200000000001,"body":"and feel to these citizens assemblies"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":699.3000000000001,"endTime":702.9100000000001,"body":"in terms of the, representation of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":699.3000000000001,"endTime":702.9100000000001,"body":"gender, ethnicity, and all the other"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":702.9100000000001,"endTime":705.946,"body":"social characteristics that maybe"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":702.9100000000001,"endTime":705.946,"body":"are not represented in Parliament."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":706.5830000000001,"endTime":709.4630000000001,"body":"But to an extent, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":706.5830000000001,"endTime":709.4630000000001,"body":"can only invite people to come and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":709.4630000000001,"endTime":711.893,"body":"people are hard to reach, especially"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":709.4630000000001,"endTime":711.893,"body":"people who have been disaffected"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":711.893,"endTime":713.513,"body":"for a long, long time from politics."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":714.0530000000001,"endTime":717.663,"body":"But the, the most important thing is here"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":714.0530000000001,"endTime":717.663,"body":"is you exclude elites, or at least you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":717.663,"endTime":719.673,"body":"only include them in a systematic way."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":719.913,"endTime":723.123,"body":"So you can select the experts and you can"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":719.913,"endTime":723.123,"body":"give them the amount of speaking time."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":723.123,"endTime":727.0830000000001,"body":"But effectively, people who have their"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":723.123,"endTime":727.0830000000001,"body":"own concerns and are experts in their"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":727.0830000000001,"endTime":731.1930000000001,"body":"own lives and how, climate affects"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":727.0830000000001,"endTime":731.1930000000001,"body":"them, get the chance to have a safe"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":731.1930000000001,"endTime":735.2130000000001,"body":"space away from all the noise of social"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":731.1930000000001,"endTime":735.2130000000001,"body":"media and media and everything else."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":735.4530000000001,"endTime":738.783,"body":"And they get that time to talk to each"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":735.4530000000001,"endTime":738.783,"body":"other, learn from each other, and then"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":739.1930000000001,"endTime":744.416,"body":"you get a really more, authentic sense of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":739.1930000000001,"endTime":744.416,"body":"what people think if they're given time"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":744.416,"endTime":749.186,"body":"to deliberate and decide about things away"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":744.416,"endTime":749.186,"body":"from, the cacophony that we normally have"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":749.186,"endTime":750.836,"body":"to deal with when we're trying to decide."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":751.076,"endTime":752.576,"body":"So, so that's the idea really."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":752.576,"endTime":756.206,"body":"And like there's all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":752.576,"endTime":756.206,"body":"small variables that you can move"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":756.206,"endTime":759.091,"body":"and, and think about, you know you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":756.206,"endTime":759.091,"body":"could  stratify who you select."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":759.541,"endTime":763.1410000000001,"body":"You can have a commission that decides"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":759.541,"endTime":763.1410000000001,"body":"the experts or you can think about,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":763.1410000000001,"endTime":765.7810000000001,"body":"and there's lots of fighting over"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":763.1410000000001,"endTime":765.7810000000001,"body":"the question that you decide on this"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":765.7860000000001,"endTime":767.2510000000001,"body":"scope, and it's all really important."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":767.6110000000001,"endTime":770.1610000000001,"body":"But at the end of the day, that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":767.6110000000001,"endTime":770.1610000000001,"body":"the fundamental principle is that you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":770.1610000000001,"endTime":773.551,"body":"kind of exclude the elites from being"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":770.1610000000001,"endTime":773.551,"body":"the only ones making the decision."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":773.551,"endTime":777.471,"body":"And you have some kind of system"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":773.551,"endTime":777.471,"body":"where you include citizen expertise"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":777.471,"endTime":781.3960000000001,"body":"as well as the scientific expertise"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":777.471,"endTime":781.3960000000001,"body":"and the, and the opinions of, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":781.3960000000001,"endTime":785.926,"body":"know, all the different parts of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":781.3960000000001,"endTime":785.926,"body":"economy that have a stake in this."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":785.926,"endTime":789.2560000000001,"body":"So it's trying to kind of game the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":785.926,"endTime":789.2560000000001,"body":"system so that it's a bit fairer"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":789.2560000000001,"endTime":793.846,"body":"in a way and a bit more, um, suited"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":789.2560000000001,"endTime":793.846,"body":"than, you know, to compliment the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":793.846,"endTime":794.916,"body":"electoral system that we have."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":796.2310000000001,"endTime":799.8610000000001,"body":"It ties in quite nicely"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":796.2310000000001,"endTime":799.8610000000001,"body":"cuz I used to way back, teach business"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":799.8660000000001,"endTime":803.038,"body":"ethics and, you know, I still teach"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":799.8660000000001,"endTime":803.038,"body":"corporate social responsibility and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":803.038,"endTime":808.408,"body":"sustainable business and, and a big, a key"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":803.038,"endTime":808.408,"body":"buzzword is stakeholder management, where"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":808.408,"endTime":812.4580000000001,"body":"there's all these different stakeholders"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":808.408,"endTime":812.4580000000001,"body":"of any policy or, or any business."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":812.8850000000001,"endTime":817.205,"body":"And you find that in general government,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":812.8850000000001,"endTime":817.205,"body":"some stakeholders have privileged access."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":817.955,"endTime":822.575,"body":"They have the ear of the minister,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":817.955,"endTime":822.575,"body":"whereas the idea of citizen assemblies,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":822.575,"endTime":824.105,"body":"you don't have that privileged access."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":824.105,"endTime":827.465,"body":"You know, if you are a stakeholder"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":824.105,"endTime":827.465,"body":"who is affected by this"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":827.465,"endTime":829.6850000000001,"body":"policy, then you are included."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":830.375,"endTime":834.2750000000001,"body":"So there's a distinction between"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":830.375,"endTime":834.2750000000001,"body":"powerful stakeholders and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":834.575,"endTime":837.315,"body":"stakeholders who are important."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":837.315,"endTime":842.22,"body":"So important stakeholders will be very"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":837.315,"endTime":842.22,"body":"much affected by whatever is decided."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":842.75,"endTime":845.8800000000001,"body":"Powerful stakeholders have the ability"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":842.75,"endTime":845.8800000000001,"body":"to make it happen or not happen."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":845.976,"endTime":850.1460000000001,"body":"Business and, and governments tend to pay"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":845.976,"endTime":850.1460000000001,"body":"more importance to powerful stakeholders"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":850.206,"endTime":852.3660000000001,"body":"rather than important stakeholders."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":852.726,"endTime":855.0060000000001,"body":"So again, it redresses that balance."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":855.0060000000001,"endTime":860.4300000000001,"body":"So, I think most of us have been"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":855.0060000000001,"endTime":860.4300000000001,"body":"quite disenchanted with democracy"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":860.58,"endTime":863.37,"body":"and we really don't wanna throw"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":860.58,"endTime":863.37,"body":"out the baby with the bath water."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":864.2,"endTime":869.2700000000001,"body":"So for me, this kind of participative"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":864.2,"endTime":869.2700000000001,"body":"democracy is, is what we need to save"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":869.2700000000001,"endTime":873.8000000000001,"body":"us, really save us, save the planet,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":869.2700000000001,"endTime":873.8000000000001,"body":"and and save the ideals of democracy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":874.1,"endTime":874.37,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":874.37,"endTime":880.82,"body":"Well, I mean, both of you are based in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":874.37,"endTime":880.82,"body":"the UK where the electoral system is a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":880.82,"endTime":886.58,"body":"single seat constituency, first past post,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":880.82,"endTime":886.58,"body":"which is hugely flawed in and of itself."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":887.0300000000001,"endTime":891.0200000000001,"body":"And people have been saying you should"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":887.0300000000001,"endTime":891.0200000000001,"body":"move to proportional representation."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":891.0200000000001,"endTime":894.1400000000001,"body":"That keeps popping up from time to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":891.0200000000001,"endTime":894.1400000000001,"body":"time and it never gets anywhere."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":894.586,"endTime":899.826,"body":"Because to your point, I suspect,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":894.586,"endTime":899.826,"body":"Denise, you've got these powerful"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":899.831,"endTime":903.1360000000001,"body":"stakeholders who have vested"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":899.831,"endTime":903.1360000000001,"body":"interest in keeping the status quo."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":903.686,"endTime":906.3900000000001,"body":"How are you going to get them if"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":903.686,"endTime":906.3900000000001,"body":"they're not, going to, I don't wanna"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":906.3900000000001,"endTime":910.35,"body":"say allow, but if they're stopping"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":906.3900000000001,"endTime":910.35,"body":"proportional representation, for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":910.35,"endTime":914.863,"body":"example, from being implemented, why"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":910.35,"endTime":914.863,"body":"would they embrace citizen assemblies?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":915.618,"endTime":919.668,"body":"Well, yes, like turkeys"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":915.618,"endTime":919.668,"body":"voting for Christmas isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":920.2180000000001,"endTime":921.3280000000001,"body":"That's a very good point."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":921.538,"endTime":922.648,"body":"And it's a real shame."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":922.648,"endTime":926.3080000000001,"body":"I mean I used, you know, I was be fan"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":922.648,"endTime":926.3080000000001,"body":"of proportional representation, but"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":926.3080000000001,"endTime":928.1980000000001,"body":"it only solves part of the problem."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":928.9480000000001,"endTime":931.648,"body":"If you just sort of bung it"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":928.9480000000001,"endTime":931.648,"body":"onto our existing system."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":932.038,"endTime":935.128,"body":"I mean, who even votes for the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":932.038,"endTime":935.128,"body":"party they'd want you vote to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":935.128,"endTime":936.508,"body":"keep the one you don't want out."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":937.378,"endTime":940.888,"body":"And I think they did a survey once in"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":937.378,"endTime":940.888,"body":"Chichester, Sussex where they found out"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":940.888,"endTime":945.268,"body":"with everybody voted for the policies"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":940.888,"endTime":945.268,"body":"they want, the Green party would be in."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":945.9280000000001,"endTime":947.668,"body":"Of course there's just one mp."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":947.9380000000001,"endTime":949.883,"body":"So, it's a real problem."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":950.243,"endTime":953.8430000000001,"body":"I think now with the debate about"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":950.243,"endTime":953.8430000000001,"body":"looking for a replacement with"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":953.8430000000001,"endTime":955.5830000000001,"body":"the House of Lords on the table."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":956.123,"endTime":961.5530000000001,"body":"This is a really good time to try"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":956.123,"endTime":961.5530000000001,"body":"and get a sort of momentum behind"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":961.5530000000001,"endTime":965.153,"body":"the idea of, hang on a minute, why"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":961.5530000000001,"endTime":965.153,"body":"don't we have a house of citizens?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":965.153,"endTime":967.253,"body":"Why don't we have a citizen's Senate?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":968.0630000000001,"endTime":971.753,"body":"You know, why don't we like really put"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":968.0630000000001,"endTime":971.753,"body":"it in the heart of power rather than"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":971.753,"endTime":974.003,"body":"just taking one representative system."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":974.798,"endTime":978.9780000000001,"body":"And, you know, I have representative"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":974.798,"endTime":978.9780000000001,"body":"in quotation marks  with another"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":978.9780000000001,"endTime":983.538,"body":"representative system and a whole"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":978.9780000000001,"endTime":983.538,"body":"argument over who we put in place there."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":984.168,"endTime":988.6780000000001,"body":"We kind of had two then systems"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":984.168,"endTime":988.6780000000001,"body":"with similar issues rather than"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":988.6830000000001,"endTime":991.788,"body":"one complimenting and providing"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":988.6830000000001,"endTime":991.788,"body":"different pros and cons to the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":991.788,"endTime":993.2280000000001,"body":"other, which for me would be ideal."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":993.841,"endTime":997.801,"body":"So yes, I'm, I'm quite a fan of the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":993.841,"endTime":997.801,"body":"Sortition movement because they are trying"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":997.801,"endTime":1001.556,"body":"to galvanize sort of public interest"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":997.801,"endTime":1001.556,"body":"behind this debate, and I think now"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1001.556,"endTime":1005.846,"body":"is the time to, to raise these issues"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1001.556,"endTime":1005.846,"body":"and, and get people talking about them."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1006.3560000000001,"endTime":1009.6560000000001,"body":"But the trouble is people not really,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1006.3560000000001,"endTime":1009.6560000000001,"body":"they're not familiar enough with"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1009.6560000000001,"endTime":1012.446,"body":"them , that that's one of the issues."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1012.6060000000001,"endTime":1012.8760000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1013.0260000000001,"endTime":1014.076,"body":"Fair, fair."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1014.436,"endTime":1018.706,"body":"Matt, do you have anything to, to add to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1014.436,"endTime":1018.706,"body":"that about how do you get these powerful"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1018.711,"endTime":1023.466,"body":"stakeholders to step aside,  and, and,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1018.711,"endTime":1023.466,"body":"and allow our citizen assembly in place?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1024.071,"endTime":1024.521,"body":"Certainly."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1024.521,"endTime":1026.381,"body":"So I think there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1024.521,"endTime":1026.381,"body":"a few things to say on this."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1026.381,"endTime":1029.201,"body":"So 1, 1, 1 thing that came to me"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1026.381,"endTime":1029.201,"body":"immediately is that, well, I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1029.201,"endTime":1032.861,"body":"it's important to start off by saying,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1029.201,"endTime":1032.861,"body":"I think Denise talks about throwing"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1032.861,"endTime":1033.941,"body":"the baby out with the bat water."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1033.946,"endTime":1037.451,"body":"Like the, institutions we have are, are"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1033.946,"endTime":1037.451,"body":"hard fought for, and we need to make"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1037.456,"endTime":1039.791,"body":"sure that they work well in themselves."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1040.181,"endTime":1043.181,"body":"So, you know, you often hear people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1040.181,"endTime":1043.181,"body":"complain and you ask them, have"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1043.181,"endTime":1044.561,"body":"you ever tried writing to your mp?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1044.561,"endTime":1045.461,"body":"And they go, why would I?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1045.461,"endTime":1048.761,"body":"You know, so you kind of wanna say to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1045.461,"endTime":1048.761,"body":"people, engage with the political system"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1048.761,"endTime":1050.831,"body":"and, you know, there are all, there"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1048.761,"endTime":1050.831,"body":"are all kinds of issues around that."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1050.831,"endTime":1053.771,"body":"And, and as you've pointed out, the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1050.831,"endTime":1053.771,"body":"first past the post system doesn't"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1053.771,"endTime":1057.191,"body":"work well in terms a lot of the time in"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1053.771,"endTime":1057.191,"body":"terms of providing accountability for"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1057.1960000000001,"endTime":1058.961,"body":"politicians in safe seats, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1058.9660000000001,"endTime":1061.881,"body":"They don't have to look beyond"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1058.9660000000001,"endTime":1061.881,"body":"a certain part of the electorate"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1061.881,"endTime":1063.175,"body":"and, think about those things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1063.535,"endTime":1066.7450000000001,"body":"But in different systems, you have"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1063.535,"endTime":1066.7450000000001,"body":"a different mix that can help."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1066.915,"endTime":1070.391,"body":"And, and the UK, in fairness to it,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1066.915,"endTime":1070.391,"body":"has had, some kind of innovation,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1070.391,"endTime":1073.271,"body":"especially around at the local level"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1070.391,"endTime":1073.271,"body":"in terms of the way that they, they"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1073.276,"endTime":1074.8310000000001,"body":"consult the public and change things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1074.8310000000001,"endTime":1077.3210000000001,"body":"And we have had those citizens"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1074.8310000000001,"endTime":1077.3210000000001,"body":"stories and assemblies over the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1077.3210000000001,"endTime":1080.771,"body":"years that have contributed to, to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1077.3210000000001,"endTime":1080.771,"body":"policy making in different ways."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1080.771,"endTime":1083.651,"body":"So through getting that ecosystem"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1080.771,"endTime":1083.651,"body":"right, but what I think is really"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1083.651,"endTime":1087.778,"body":"important, and this is what Denise"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1083.651,"endTime":1087.778,"body":"touched on is, we have to keep thinking"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1087.778,"endTime":1090.508,"body":"about innovation and we have to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1087.778,"endTime":1090.508,"body":"think about innovating our democracy."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1090.508,"endTime":1093.8980000000001,"body":"And it's a constant struggle to make sure"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1090.508,"endTime":1093.8980000000001,"body":"that the right voices are represented and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1093.8980000000001,"endTime":1096.178,"body":"we can't ever take anything for granted."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1096.178,"endTime":1099.088,"body":"And what's nice to know is that like"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1096.178,"endTime":1099.088,"body":"we studied democratic innovation"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1099.088,"endTime":1101.428,"body":"all over the world, and there's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1099.088,"endTime":1101.428,"body":"loads of different examples of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1101.433,"endTime":1102.8680000000002,"body":"places that are actually doing this."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1102.8680000000002,"endTime":1107.468,"body":"So Denise talked about the second"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1102.8680000000002,"endTime":1107.468,"body":"chamber, uh, in the uk, but already"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1107.468,"endTime":1111.2630000000001,"body":"in in the German speaking East Belgian"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1107.468,"endTime":1111.2630000000001,"body":"region, they're one of the first people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1111.2630000000001,"endTime":1115.576,"body":"who've actually put into a citizen a"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1111.2630000000001,"endTime":1115.576,"body":"standing citizens assembly, that sits"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1115.576,"endTime":1117.816,"body":"alongside, their existing legislators."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1117.816,"endTime":1120.786,"body":"So it is happening at, at,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1117.816,"endTime":1120.786,"body":"at regional levels already."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1120.7910000000002,"endTime":1123.6200000000001,"body":"You know, so it's not, it's not"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1120.7910000000002,"endTime":1123.6200000000001,"body":"like this is sci-fi, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1123.6200000000001,"endTime":1126.6100000000001,"body":"this is really, this stuff, is"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1123.6200000000001,"endTime":1126.6100000000001,"body":"really happening and it does work."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1126.8500000000001,"endTime":1128.95,"body":"Now, none of this is magic bullet, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1128.95,"endTime":1131.26,"body":"But it's just try something"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1128.95,"endTime":1131.26,"body":"different and do something different."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1131.26,"endTime":1134.71,"body":"It's, it's good to see"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1131.26,"endTime":1134.71,"body":"what, what can happen."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1135.115,"endTime":1136.7350000000001,"body":"You're still going to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1135.115,"endTime":1136.7350000000001,"body":"run into same problems."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1136.7350000000001,"endTime":1139.645,"body":"Like if you have, we, we know from"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1136.7350000000001,"endTime":1139.645,"body":"doing citizen panels, which have been"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1139.645,"endTime":1143.125,"body":"very effective for surveying citizens"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1139.645,"endTime":1143.125,"body":"around the c the country in different"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1143.13,"endTime":1146.425,"body":"places and loads of local authorities"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1143.13,"endTime":1146.425,"body":"in the UK and other, other places"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1146.425,"endTime":1148.345,"body":"had citizens panels and still have."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1148.9750000000001,"endTime":1152.755,"body":"But if the same people on the panel"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1148.9750000000001,"endTime":1152.755,"body":"all the time, they get socialized"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1152.755,"endTime":1155.7250000000001,"body":"into, so it's the same issue, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1152.755,"endTime":1155.7250000000001,"body":"know, if you randomly select people,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1155.7250000000001,"endTime":1157.105,"body":"you have to exclude them again."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1157.135,"endTime":1159.175,"body":"And I think that's the really"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1157.135,"endTime":1159.175,"body":"important thing, is to make"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1159.175,"endTime":1160.395,"body":"sure that people can't be."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1161.3780000000002,"endTime":1163.958,"body":"You have to try and come up and it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1161.3780000000002,"endTime":1163.958,"body":"very difficult come up with a system"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1163.958,"endTime":1167.9450000000002,"body":"that allows, people that safe space to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1163.958,"endTime":1167.9450000000002,"body":"deliberate things away from interest"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1167.9450000000002,"endTime":1170.4950000000001,"body":"groups, but the interest groups and the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1167.9450000000002,"endTime":1170.4950000000001,"body":"lobbies are always going to be there."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1170.4950000000001,"endTime":1174.105,"body":"So you have to try and marry"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1170.4950000000001,"endTime":1174.105,"body":"that, that issue of having, a safe"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1174.105,"endTime":1177.9450000000002,"body":"space for people to give their"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1174.105,"endTime":1177.9450000000002,"body":"expertise without being affected by"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1177.9450000000002,"endTime":1179.7150000000001,"body":"strong interests and lobby groups."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1179.983,"endTime":1183.0800000000002,"body":"But those lobby groups, some just have"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1179.983,"endTime":1183.0800000000002,"body":"to exist because at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1183.0800000000002,"endTime":1186.29,"body":"day, politics is about interests and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1183.0800000000002,"endTime":1186.29,"body":"about, you know, it's about values,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1186.29,"endTime":1187.683,"body":"but it's also about people's interests."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1187.683,"endTime":1189.7830000000001,"body":"People have needs and they"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1187.683,"endTime":1189.7830000000001,"body":"need to get them satisfied."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1190.2630000000001,"endTime":1192.198,"body":"So it's a very complex thing."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1192.198,"endTime":1195.3980000000001,"body":"But the, the main thing for me that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1192.198,"endTime":1195.3980000000001,"body":"important about citizens assemblies"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1195.3980000000001,"endTime":1199.218,"body":"and why they, they might be part to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1195.3980000000001,"endTime":1199.218,"body":"the answer, solving the climate crisis,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1199.758,"endTime":1203.298,"body":"is that they provide this other space,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1199.758,"endTime":1203.298,"body":"this alternative way of doing things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1203.298,"endTime":1206.018,"body":"And they bring those ideas"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1203.298,"endTime":1206.018,"body":"that Denise is talking about to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1206.018,"endTime":1209.611,"body":"politics so that you can have a"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1206.018,"endTime":1209.611,"body":"different, way of looking at things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1209.611,"endTime":1210.601,"body":"We know this works, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1210.601,"endTime":1214.67,"body":"It's an alternative venue that can"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1210.601,"endTime":1214.67,"body":"bypass some gridlock, and we've seen"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1214.67,"endTime":1218.256,"body":"that happen, for example, in Ireland on"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1214.67,"endTime":1218.256,"body":"different issues like, constitutional"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1218.261,"endTime":1221.651,"body":"issues there, like the gay marriage"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1218.261,"endTime":1221.651,"body":"issue and the, um, the abortion issue."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1221.711,"endTime":1224.921,"body":"It provides a separate venue where"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1221.711,"endTime":1224.921,"body":"people can deliberate and say, actually"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1225.011,"endTime":1228.3410000000001,"body":"the, the country's in a different place"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1225.011,"endTime":1228.3410000000001,"body":"to where, where it really was 20 years"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1228.3410000000001,"endTime":1232.511,"body":"ago now, and we can actually give you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1228.3410000000001,"endTime":1232.511,"body":"the authority to move in this direction"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1232.511,"endTime":1235.2910000000002,"body":"because you've brought the experts"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1232.511,"endTime":1235.2910000000002,"body":"and the citizens together and, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1235.2910000000002,"endTime":1238.976,"body":"they've made a decision and it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1235.2910000000002,"endTime":1238.976,"body":"legitimate and representative in some way."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1239.156,"endTime":1240.356,"body":"But there are other"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1239.156,"endTime":1240.356,"body":"ways doing this as well."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1240.356,"endTime":1244.076,"body":"It doesn't have to be random selection, it"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1240.356,"endTime":1244.076,"body":"doesn't have to be people in a, in a room,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1244.6760000000002,"endTime":1246.326,"body":"you know, for two weekends in a hotel."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1246.326,"endTime":1248.896,"body":"It can also be something that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1246.326,"endTime":1248.896,"body":"incentivizing neighborhood"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1248.901,"endTime":1252.03,"body":"meetings and, and building things"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1248.901,"endTime":1252.03,"body":"from the ground up as well."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1252.03,"endTime":1256.3400000000001,"body":"So there's, there's a whole array of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1252.03,"endTime":1256.3400000000001,"body":"things that we can do to compliment, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1256.3400000000001,"endTime":1262.28,"body":"know, staid or slightly creaking political"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1256.3400000000001,"endTime":1262.28,"body":"institutions and kind of support them and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1262.28,"endTime":1266.5900000000001,"body":"buttress them, so that, you know, some"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1262.28,"endTime":1266.5900000000001,"body":"people don't want to write to their mp,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1266.595,"endTime":1269.726,"body":"but maybe go to a neighborhood meeting"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1266.595,"endTime":1269.726,"body":"or, or you might get a letter in the door"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1269.726,"endTime":1272.816,"body":"saying you've been randomly selected to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1269.726,"endTime":1272.816,"body":"a citizen's assembly and you can make an"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1272.816,"endTime":1276.78,"body":"important decision to to mitigate climate,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1272.816,"endTime":1276.78,"body":"you know, so it's kind of climate change."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1276.78,"endTime":1280.45,"body":"So, so those are the, you know, there"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1276.78,"endTime":1280.45,"body":"needs to be a lot more innovation and mix."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1280.47,"endTime":1283.74,"body":"That would be my call out to people, is"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1280.47,"endTime":1283.74,"body":"to kind of think about different ways"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1283.74,"endTime":1287.49,"body":"of doing things and, and engaging people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1283.74,"endTime":1287.49,"body":"who, for whatever reason are disengaged."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1288.1200000000001,"endTime":1291.66,"body":"I think also there's a, a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1288.1200000000001,"endTime":1291.66,"body":"feminist argument to be made here because"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1291.66,"endTime":1297.43,"body":"I see a lot of our institutions as having"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1291.66,"endTime":1297.43,"body":"arisen from the debating chambers of Eton."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1297.66,"endTime":1303.4930000000002,"body":"It's all male, elite sort of privileged,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1297.66,"endTime":1303.4930000000002,"body":"idea where you have, two oppositions and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1303.4930000000002,"endTime":1307.903,"body":"the idea is if you both take opposing"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1303.4930000000002,"endTime":1307.903,"body":"views, the best argument will win."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1308.2930000000001,"endTime":1313.583,"body":"And that adversarial system, has"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1308.2930000000001,"endTime":1313.583,"body":"permeated through our entire culture."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1313.583,"endTime":1314.7630000000001,"body":"It's in our law courts."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1314.7830000000001,"endTime":1318.473,"body":"It's in the relationship between"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1314.7830000000001,"endTime":1318.473,"body":"the media and the politicians."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1318.473,"endTime":1321.5330000000001,"body":"It's in the two opposing, just"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1318.473,"endTime":1321.5330000000001,"body":"the way the whole House of Commons"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1321.5330000000001,"endTime":1325.7530000000002,"body":"is set up is basically two people"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1321.5330000000001,"endTime":1325.7530000000002,"body":"shouting at each other, two groups."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1326.423,"endTime":1329.198,"body":"And the assumption that the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1326.423,"endTime":1329.198,"body":"truth will arise from that."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1329.438,"endTime":1332.968,"body":"But I think we know, especially now"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1329.438,"endTime":1332.968,"body":"as information is being interfered"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1332.968,"endTime":1337.078,"body":"with so much, and people are exposed"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1332.968,"endTime":1337.078,"body":"to as probably, I think probably most"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1337.083,"endTime":1340.6180000000002,"body":"big decisions that have been made"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1337.083,"endTime":1340.6180000000002,"body":"nationally and internationally over"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1340.6180000000002,"endTime":1344.848,"body":"the last five years have been made"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1340.6180000000002,"endTime":1344.848,"body":"mostly on the basis misinformation."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1345.9080000000001,"endTime":1349.528,"body":"So, Democracy is only good as"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1345.9080000000001,"endTime":1349.528,"body":"the information that comes into"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1349.528,"endTime":1351.508,"body":"it and the people involved."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1351.508,"endTime":1356.338,"body":"And if the attitude is the truth"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1351.508,"endTime":1356.338,"body":"will emerge from two opposing views."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1356.6380000000001,"endTime":1358.258,"body":"Well, that's not what happens."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1358.258,"endTime":1362.8780000000002,"body":"The loudest voices and those with"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1358.258,"endTime":1362.8780000000002,"body":"most control over the distribution of"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1362.883,"endTime":1365.038,"body":"information, are the ones that win."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1365.0430000000001,"endTime":1367.348,"body":"In America, that parties"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1365.0430000000001,"endTime":1367.348,"body":"with the most money wins."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1368.758,"endTime":1373.828,"body":"So I like the idea of deliberation"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1368.758,"endTime":1373.828,"body":"of a whole different attitude."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1374.3680000000002,"endTime":1378.178,"body":"So, I mean, like I said, I spent"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1374.3680000000002,"endTime":1378.178,"body":"many years in favor of proportional"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1378.178,"endTime":1382.6480000000001,"body":"representation, but you just sort"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1378.178,"endTime":1382.6480000000001,"body":"of impose that upon our current tone"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1382.6480000000001,"endTime":1384.988,"body":"and, you know, approach to politics."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1385.708,"endTime":1387.538,"body":"I, I'm not sure how well it works."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1387.538,"endTime":1390.238,"body":"This is a real fundamental"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1387.538,"endTime":1390.238,"body":"change of approach."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1390.778,"endTime":1394.768,"body":"I see it as, maybe you don't need"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1390.778,"endTime":1394.768,"body":"to genderize it, but I, I do see"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1394.768,"endTime":1397.858,"body":"it as a more, you know, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1394.768,"endTime":1397.858,"body":"interested in shouting at you."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1397.858,"endTime":1399.578,"body":"I'm interested in having a discussion."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1400.873,"endTime":1405.5030000000002,"body":"So I love the idea of that and,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1400.873,"endTime":1405.5030000000002,"body":"but the media aren't gonna like it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1405.508,"endTime":1409.603,"body":"The media, like divisive,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1405.508,"endTime":1409.603,"body":"polarized discourse."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1409.873,"endTime":1411.0030000000002,"body":"It's more theater."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1411.0030000000002,"endTime":1415.303,"body":"It's, entertainment, and a lot"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1411.0030000000002,"endTime":1415.303,"body":"of people love politics for that."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1415.663,"endTime":1418.873,"body":"They like the cat and mouse game that"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1415.663,"endTime":1418.873,"body":"politicians play with journalists"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1419.343,"endTime":1422.633,"body":"and journalists try and catch them"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1419.343,"endTime":1422.633,"body":"out on a word, out of context."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1423.473,"endTime":1424.203,"body":"I hate it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1425.0030000000002,"endTime":1427.183,"body":"I don't think politics"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1425.0030000000002,"endTime":1427.183,"body":"should be entertainment."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1427.183,"endTime":1433.063,"body":"So Parson is a matter of preference,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1427.183,"endTime":1433.063,"body":"but the stakes are too high to think."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1433.068,"endTime":1435.7630000000001,"body":"Actually, it's more fun to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1433.068,"endTime":1435.7630000000001,"body":"have politics as theater."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1436.213,"endTime":1436.933,"body":"Quite frankly."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1436.933,"endTime":1441.2830000000001,"body":"The, the stakes are our futur,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1436.933,"endTime":1441.2830000000001,"body":"our humanity, and we need to be"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1441.2830000000001,"endTime":1445.843,"body":"making long term decisions in a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1441.2830000000001,"endTime":1445.843,"body":"deliberative, calm, thoughtful way."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1446.2930000000001,"endTime":1451.383,"body":"Not full of people just shouting at each"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1446.2930000000001,"endTime":1451.383,"body":"other, trying to get the latest soundbite."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1452.2530000000002,"endTime":1455.6680000000001,"body":"Or trying to avoid being caught"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1452.2530000000002,"endTime":1455.6680000000001,"body":"out in a statement outta context,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1455.6680000000001,"endTime":1457.3780000000002,"body":"because that's not a safe space."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1457.468,"endTime":1462.315,"body":"You know, we don't have a safe space at"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1457.468,"endTime":1462.315,"body":"the moment to debate things, thoughtfully."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1463.065,"endTime":1463.6950000000002,"body":"Sure, sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1464.595,"endTime":1468.958,"body":"Matt, you referenced the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1464.595,"endTime":1468.958,"body":"example of citizen assemblies"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1468.958,"endTime":1471.748,"body":"in Ireland and East Belgium."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1471.988,"endTime":1473.278,"body":"German speaking, east Belgium."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1473.848,"endTime":1476.848,"body":"How did the media respond to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1473.848,"endTime":1476.848,"body":"the citizen assemblies there?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1477.778,"endTime":1478.048,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1478.048,"endTime":1480.963,"body":"So this is, and, and Denise"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1478.048,"endTime":1480.963,"body":"has touched on this as well."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1480.963,"endTime":1484.893,"body":"This is the tough nut that we have"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1480.963,"endTime":1484.893,"body":"to crack is kind of getting the media"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1484.893,"endTime":1487.2,"body":"stories We started with this didn't we?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1487.26,"endTime":1491.92,"body":"Trying to understand how we tell"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1487.26,"endTime":1491.92,"body":"those good news stories and, and,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1491.925,"endTime":1493.63,"body":"and get the media interested in that."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1493.69,"endTime":1496.16,"body":"And it's not like, it's not"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1493.69,"endTime":1496.16,"body":"like they're the wrong people."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1496.3600000000001,"endTime":1499.43,"body":"Like you can talk to journalists about"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1496.3600000000001,"endTime":1499.43,"body":"what happens and the colleagues of mine"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1499.43,"endTime":1503.935,"body":"who have actually looked at this and, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1499.43,"endTime":1503.935,"body":"looked at Climate Assembly UK for example."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1504.385,"endTime":1508.105,"body":"They, they have written some really"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1504.385,"endTime":1508.105,"body":"nice, reports that people can access"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1508.255,"endTime":1510.7150000000001,"body":"that kind of explain the difficulty here."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1510.7150000000001,"endTime":1511.7350000000001,"body":"And from talking to them."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1511.7350000000001,"endTime":1514.358,"body":"One of the issues was, the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1511.7350000000001,"endTime":1514.358,"body":"journalists will say, when something"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1514.358,"endTime":1515.528,"body":"happens, we report about it."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1515.528,"endTime":1518.258,"body":"But at the moment, like you said"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1515.528,"endTime":1518.258,"body":"earlier, it's a bunch of people talking."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1518.258,"endTime":1521.528,"body":"And even if you have David Attenborough"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1518.258,"endTime":1521.528,"body":"and you have, uh, a documentary"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1521.528,"endTime":1523.098,"body":"on the BBC that's really nice."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1523.538,"endTime":1526.9850000000001,"body":"If you take the Irish examples,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1523.538,"endTime":1526.9850000000001,"body":"abortion and gay marriage are major"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1527.345,"endTime":1531.191,"body":"social issues that had a whole social"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1527.345,"endTime":1531.191,"body":"movement attached to them for 20 years."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1531.191,"endTime":1534.3110000000001,"body":"And I think people forget that, that"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1531.191,"endTime":1534.3110000000001,"body":"it's not, it wasn't the climate assembly"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1534.491,"endTime":1537.2250000000001,"body":"or sorry, it wasn't the citizen's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1534.491,"endTime":1537.2250000000001,"body":"assembly that, that was the magic"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1537.2250000000001,"endTime":1538.605,"body":"bullet that changed those things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1538.605,"endTime":1540.765,"body":"It was, 20 years of social change."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1541.111,"endTime":1544.651,"body":"UK's a really good example actually"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1541.111,"endTime":1544.651,"body":"because I think the UK is somewhere where"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1544.651,"endTime":1548.875,"body":"the most people actually, it's probably"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1544.651,"endTime":1548.875,"body":"a leader in the sense that throughout"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1548.905,"endTime":1554.241,"body":"different, parts of the society, people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1548.905,"endTime":1554.241,"body":"do accept that climate change is a real"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1554.241,"endTime":1555.711,"body":"problem and we have to deal with it."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1555.711,"endTime":1559.131,"body":"So there's a lot of actual support in"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1555.711,"endTime":1559.131,"body":"public opinion across different sectors"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1559.131,"endTime":1560.961,"body":"of society to do something about this."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1561.171,"endTime":1563.901,"body":"The problem is we all disagree"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1561.171,"endTime":1563.901,"body":"about how we should actually"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1564.3210000000001,"endTime":1565.5810000000001,"body":"change and what we should do."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1565.5810000000001,"endTime":1569.181,"body":"So we need a venue to be able"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1565.5810000000001,"endTime":1569.181,"body":"to, to talk about these things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1569.646,"endTime":1573.066,"body":"I'm going around the houses a bit, but"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1569.646,"endTime":1573.066,"body":"coming back to the point about, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1573.066,"endTime":1574.806,"body":"know, how do we make this interesting?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1575.6760000000002,"endTime":1577.866,"body":"We're running a climate"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1575.6760000000002,"endTime":1577.866,"body":"assembly in Southampton now."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1578.136,"endTime":1580.866,"body":"There's been a lot of local level"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1578.136,"endTime":1580.866,"body":"assemblies and we're trying to think about"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1580.866,"endTime":1584.1860000000001,"body":"how we can do it differently so that we"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1580.866,"endTime":1584.1860000000001,"body":"can, you know, we're just planning this"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1584.1860000000001,"endTime":1588.472,"body":"over the next couple of years to think"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1584.1860000000001,"endTime":1588.472,"body":"about, how we can do this in a way that"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1588.477,"endTime":1592.5710000000001,"body":"builds that momentum, that gives people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1588.477,"endTime":1592.5710000000001,"body":"like an honest and clear story about"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1592.5710000000001,"endTime":1596.111,"body":"why this is happening, what it's doing,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1592.5710000000001,"endTime":1596.111,"body":"and you know, the participants involved."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1596.111,"endTime":1600.511,"body":"There's been some nice examples, for"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1596.111,"endTime":1600.511,"body":"example, of where people have followed"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1600.5710000000001,"endTime":1604.111,"body":"assembly members from that moment where"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1600.5710000000001,"endTime":1604.111,"body":"they get that letter, they're kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1604.111,"endTime":1607.141,"body":"randomly selected, and then they go and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1604.111,"endTime":1607.141,"body":"meet each other and they meet people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1607.141,"endTime":1608.881,"body":"from very different walks of life."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1608.881,"endTime":1613.0810000000001,"body":"So, you know, you might be an 18 year"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1608.881,"endTime":1613.0810000000001,"body":"old who, you know, knows everything"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1613.0810000000001,"endTime":1616.111,"body":"about this technology, that technology"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1613.0810000000001,"endTime":1616.111,"body":"has a totally different culture"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1616.111,"endTime":1618.421,"body":"to a a 55 year old rural person."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1618.751,"endTime":1621.4650000000001,"body":"I mean, I'm stereotyping a bit"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1618.751,"endTime":1621.4650000000001,"body":"here, but, then you have to come"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1621.47,"endTime":1623.775,"body":"together and you have to try and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1621.47,"endTime":1623.775,"body":"understand each other and you might"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1623.775,"endTime":1625.185,"body":"find that you've got a lot in common."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1625.185,"endTime":1628.065,"body":"And those kind of stories are"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1625.185,"endTime":1628.065,"body":"really interesting because of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1628.065,"endTime":1629.295,"body":"kind of life interest stories."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1629.295,"endTime":1632.295,"body":"And they tell, they tell the journey"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1629.295,"endTime":1632.295,"body":"of people going through these things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1632.865,"endTime":1635.925,"body":"And we do have some, uh, evidence"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1632.865,"endTime":1635.925,"body":"coming out now that those people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1635.925,"endTime":1638.19,"body":"who are involved in the assemblies,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1635.925,"endTime":1638.19,"body":"even though it's a small number."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1638.56,"endTime":1642.39,"body":"They continue campaigning afterwards on"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1638.56,"endTime":1642.39,"body":"the issues that they get involved with."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1642.39,"endTime":1645.3,"body":"So it does change their life, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1642.39,"endTime":1645.3,"body":"they create a kind of cohort in a way."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1645.3,"endTime":1648.45,"body":"A lot of them, you know, not"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1645.3,"endTime":1648.45,"body":"everyone, but many of them will"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1648.54,"endTime":1651.21,"body":"if you follow up and interview"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1648.54,"endTime":1651.21,"body":"them six months, two years later."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1651.828,"endTime":1654.528,"body":"They've, you know, learned something"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1651.828,"endTime":1654.528,"body":"about something that's been a significant"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1654.528,"endTime":1657.708,"body":"moment in their lives and they're"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1654.528,"endTime":1657.708,"body":"now campaigning about whatever, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1657.708,"endTime":1659.4180000000001,"body":"know, whatever decisions they came to."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1659.8680000000002,"endTime":1663.288,"body":"In all the policymaking we do, all of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1659.8680000000002,"endTime":1663.288,"body":"these things are a drop in the ocean,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1663.288,"endTime":1666.3780000000002,"body":"but you're hoping that's like water"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1663.288,"endTime":1666.3780000000002,"body":"on a stone and it's going to kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1666.3780000000002,"endTime":1671.778,"body":"of gradually erode the, the blockage"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1666.3780000000002,"endTime":1671.778,"body":"we have to finding these solutions."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1671.808,"endTime":1675.3780000000002,"body":"So again, going back to what, what we"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1671.808,"endTime":1675.3780000000002,"body":"said earlier, what's really important"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1675.3780000000002,"endTime":1679.443,"body":"is that people embrace different ways"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1675.3780000000002,"endTime":1679.443,"body":"of doing things and they're not just"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1679.443,"endTime":1682.5030000000002,"body":"like, uh, I mean, you, you've talked"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1679.443,"endTime":1682.5030000000002,"body":"about how on the podcast you're looking"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1682.5030000000002,"endTime":1685.983,"body":"for solutions and I think it's, the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1682.5030000000002,"endTime":1685.983,"body":"naysayers are problematic, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1685.983,"endTime":1687.943,"body":"We know we do have to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1685.983,"endTime":1687.943,"body":"be critical about what?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1687.943,"endTime":1690.453,"body":"About, about different ways of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1687.943,"endTime":1690.453,"body":"doing things, but we have to try"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1690.453,"endTime":1693.738,"body":"something different because as"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1690.453,"endTime":1693.738,"body":"Denise has pointed out, the electoral"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1693.738,"endTime":1696.768,"body":"cycle as we have it is important,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1693.738,"endTime":1696.768,"body":"but on its own, it's not enough."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1696.768,"endTime":1698.268,"body":"It's not gonna solve the problem for us."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1698.268,"endTime":1700.488,"body":"So we do have to do something"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1698.268,"endTime":1700.488,"body":"slightly different here."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1700.758,"endTime":1704.111,"body":"And getting that message across, that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1700.758,"endTime":1704.111,"body":"actually not my area of expertise and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1704.111,"endTime":1707.621,"body":"that's why I'm trying to work with people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1704.111,"endTime":1707.621,"body":"like you, like journalists and, and, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1707.621,"endTime":1710.5610000000001,"body":"kind of get this message out there and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1707.621,"endTime":1710.5610000000001,"body":"see, you know, is it through podcasting?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1710.5910000000001,"endTime":1712.511,"body":"Is it through good journalism?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1712.516,"endTime":1714.5810000000001,"body":"Is it through, um, writing plays?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1714.5810000000001,"endTime":1715.361,"body":"Writing stories?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1715.361,"endTime":1718.991,"body":"How are we gonna make sure that, uh,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1715.361,"endTime":1718.991,"body":"we can tell stories in interesting"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1718.991,"endTime":1723.326,"body":"ways that galvanizes us to embrace"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1718.991,"endTime":1723.326,"body":"new ways of doing politics that then"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1723.326,"endTime":1725.336,"body":"solves major problems that we have."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1725.636,"endTime":1727.316,"body":"Climate of being number one essentially."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1727.9560000000001,"endTime":1731.0900000000001,"body":"So yeah, Matts mentioned"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1727.9560000000001,"endTime":1731.0900000000001,"body":"my, play a few times, so perhaps I"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1731.0900000000001,"endTime":1733.22,"body":"ought to, say what that's all about."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1733.5800000000002,"endTime":1738.56,"body":"So, uh, the novella, I wrote The Assassin,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1733.5800000000002,"endTime":1738.56,"body":"which is set in the citizens jury where"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1738.56,"endTime":1740.88,"body":"they debate, key climate solutions."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1741.303,"endTime":1742.7730000000001,"body":"We're adapting it as a play."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1743.643,"endTime":1748.073,"body":"And the idea is that the, the first"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1743.643,"endTime":1748.073,"body":"part of the play is kind of a whodunnit."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1748.578,"endTime":1752.478,"body":"And we get exposed to all the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1748.578,"endTime":1752.478,"body":"different climate solutions and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1752.838,"endTime":1754.758,"body":"at the end there is a murder."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1754.968,"endTime":1758.238,"body":"So, uh, we we're gonna do it as a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1754.968,"endTime":1758.238,"body":"piece of entertainment, but we're also"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1758.298,"endTime":1761.4180000000001,"body":"gonna engage the audiences and hang"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1758.298,"endTime":1761.4180000000001,"body":"on a minute, which climate solutions"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1761.423,"endTime":1763.525,"body":"did you like, in the interval."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1763.781,"endTime":1765.431,"body":"And we'll do a workshop one as well."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1765.431,"endTime":1767.521,"body":"We'll actually make that proper workshop."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1767.951,"endTime":1770.8010000000002,"body":"And, but for the entertainment one,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1767.951,"endTime":1770.8010000000002,"body":"it will just be in the interval."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1771.521,"endTime":1774.3410000000001,"body":"And then the second act,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1771.521,"endTime":1774.3410000000001,"body":"the Crown Prosecutor has to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1774.3410000000001,"endTime":1776.0810000000001,"body":"decide, is he gonna prosecute?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1776.5610000000001,"endTime":1778.5710000000001,"body":"Is there enough evidence to prosecute?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1778.681,"endTime":1782.0410000000002,"body":"It could possibly have been an"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1778.681,"endTime":1782.0410000000002,"body":"accident, but he knows if he"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1782.0410000000002,"endTime":1786.221,"body":"does, this is the first Citizen's"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1782.0410000000002,"endTime":1786.221,"body":"Assembly to be granted full power."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1787.121,"endTime":1789.511,"body":"And there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1787.121,"endTime":1789.511,"body":"interest ranged against it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1789.661,"endTime":1793.411,"body":"And if there is publicity to a"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1789.661,"endTime":1793.411,"body":"murder, it would shut them down."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1793.8310000000001,"endTime":1797.3110000000001,"body":"And he thinks, well, this is the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1793.8310000000001,"endTime":1797.3110000000001,"body":"silver bullet to avert climate change."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1797.3410000000001,"endTime":1800.401,"body":"If I prosecute, it's the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1797.3410000000001,"endTime":1800.401,"body":"end of citizens' juries."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1801.3010000000002,"endTime":1804.691,"body":"We have no chance then of making the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1801.3010000000002,"endTime":1804.691,"body":"policies that will save ourselves."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1805.135,"endTime":1807.325,"body":"So that's his crisis of conscience."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1807.325,"endTime":1812.065,"body":"When is doing your job the right thing and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1807.325,"endTime":1812.065,"body":"when is doing your job the wrong thing?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1812.065,"endTime":1816.126,"body":"So we engage the public"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1812.065,"endTime":1816.126,"body":"in making that decision."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1816.126,"endTime":1819.9360000000001,"body":"So he will say, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1816.126,"endTime":1819.9360000000001,"body":"an upright person of the law."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1820.656,"endTime":1822.036,"body":"There's huge stakes here."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1822.126,"endTime":1823.776,"body":"I cannot make this decision alone."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1823.776,"endTime":1825.066,"body":"You have to help me make it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1825.396,"endTime":1828.006,"body":"So again, we engage"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1825.396,"endTime":1828.006,"body":"the, the public in that."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1828.006,"endTime":1831.126,"body":"So it's a nice, I'm hoping it"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1828.006,"endTime":1831.126,"body":"will be really entertaining."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1831.756,"endTime":1833.266,"body":"So you've got all the fun of a whodunnit."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1833.286,"endTime":1837.906,"body":"All the fun of a crisis of conscience"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1833.286,"endTime":1837.906,"body":"and a chance to engage with the issues."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1838.4260000000002,"endTime":1839.506,"body":"So that's something."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1839.6860000000001,"endTime":1842.7160000000001,"body":"We had a small pot of funds to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1839.6860000000001,"endTime":1842.7160000000001,"body":"do on a small scale, which will"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1842.7160000000001,"endTime":1845.866,"body":"definitely happen and I'm hoping"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1842.7160000000001,"endTime":1845.866,"body":"to get a larger pot of funds, take"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1845.866,"endTime":1847.2160000000001,"body":"it to Edinburgh and do it probably."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1848.423,"endTime":1852.02,"body":"But for the moment, yeah, we're just"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1848.423,"endTime":1852.02,"body":"trying to get the anthology out there."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1852.1100000000001,"endTime":1855.5900000000001,"body":"No More Fairy Tales - Stories to"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1852.1100000000001,"endTime":1855.5900000000001,"body":"Save Our Planet cuz it's in there."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1856.145,"endTime":1859.865,"body":"And also I'm, I'm quite keen, I think"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1856.145,"endTime":1859.865,"body":"this Sortition Foundation is probably"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1859.865,"endTime":1865.025,"body":"the most established of groups that it"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1859.865,"endTime":1865.025,"body":"is compiling a lot of the information"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1865.03,"endTime":1869.505,"body":"and case studies and making the case"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1865.03,"endTime":1869.505,"body":"and trying to do some campaigning."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1869.825,"endTime":1873.29,"body":"Especially as you know, the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1869.825,"endTime":1873.29,"body":"House of Lord's option is there,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1873.845,"endTime":1877.075,"body":"can we have a House of Citizens"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1873.845,"endTime":1877.075,"body":"or Citizen Senate instead?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1877.4650000000001,"endTime":1879.865,"body":"And is that Sortition"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1877.4650000000001,"endTime":1879.865,"body":"group that you reference, are they"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1879.8700000000001,"endTime":1882.575,"body":"UK specific or are they more global?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1882.655,"endTime":1883.7150000000001,"body":"If you go on their website."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1883.7150000000001,"endTime":1885.905,"body":"It's just, uh, Sortition Foundation dot."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1886.355,"endTime":1890.825,"body":"They've got case studies from all over and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1886.355,"endTime":1890.825,"body":"they're very good at showing the positive"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1890.8300000000002,"endTime":1895.055,"body":"case studies, where it's worked really"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1890.8300000000002,"endTime":1895.055,"body":"well, where it does have more power."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1895.685,"endTime":1898.805,"body":"Uh, Scotland are doing way more"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1895.685,"endTime":1898.805,"body":"in, they're further ahead I think,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1898.805,"endTime":1902.385,"body":"in us in terms of campaigning"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1898.805,"endTime":1902.385,"body":"for them to be given more power."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1902.958,"endTime":1907.2930000000001,"body":"So it's, it's a good resource to find"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1902.958,"endTime":1907.2930000000001,"body":"out how they work and also to find out"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1907.2930000000001,"endTime":1911.193,"body":"how you can get engaged in that movement"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1907.2930000000001,"endTime":1911.193,"body":"and sort of lend your voice to the cry"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1911.193,"endTime":1916.8600000000001,"body":"for, rebooting our democracy, making"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1911.193,"endTime":1916.8600000000001,"body":"it fit for 21st century challenges."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1917.961,"endTime":1918.921,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1919.611,"endTime":1920.5710000000001,"body":"How do we make it happen?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1921.576,"endTime":1923.766,"body":"Well, that's why"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1921.576,"endTime":1923.766,"body":"I pointed out that website."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1923.766,"endTime":1926.7060000000001,"body":"I think they're probably, they're,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1923.766,"endTime":1926.7060000000001,"body":"they're the ones I came across who"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1926.711,"endTime":1928.326,"body":"seem to be doing the most to make it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1929.451,"endTime":1934.5510000000002,"body":"We are showing through all the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1929.451,"endTime":1934.5510000000002,"body":"positive case studies and local ones."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1934.5510000000002,"endTime":1938.0910000000001,"body":"So I think it's happening"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1934.5510000000002,"endTime":1938.0910000000001,"body":"already at a local level."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1938.121,"endTime":1941.031,"body":"I mean, a lot of local authorities"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1938.121,"endTime":1941.031,"body":"are using it, especially when"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1941.031,"endTime":1942.5910000000001,"body":"they're kind of blocked on an issue."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1943.335,"endTime":1946.065,"body":"So they're happening"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1943.335,"endTime":1946.065,"body":"any everywhere anyway."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1947.038,"endTime":1949.498,"body":"But they just don't"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1947.038,"endTime":1949.498,"body":"necessarily have full power."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1949.558,"endTime":1950.218,"body":"That's the thing."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1950.218,"endTime":1954.518,"body":"It's power to suggest only, but I"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1950.218,"endTime":1954.518,"body":"think as we continue to do that,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1955.0900000000001,"endTime":1958.99,"body":"and there's not that many barriers I"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1955.0900000000001,"endTime":1958.99,"body":"think to doing it locally for issues."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1958.99,"endTime":1961.8400000000001,"body":"It helps reassure politicians"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1958.99,"endTime":1961.8400000000001,"body":"as well on the probably the more"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1962.3200000000002,"endTime":1965.41,"body":"contentious things around things"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1962.3200000000002,"endTime":1965.41,"body":"like abortion and gay rights."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1965.44,"endTime":1968.8600000000001,"body":"It's reassuring if they could say, well,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1965.44,"endTime":1968.8600000000001,"body":"a citizen assembly of representative"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1968.865,"endTime":1972.31,"body":"people like this, so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1968.865,"endTime":1972.31,"body":"don't shoot me if I go for it."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1972.9930000000002,"endTime":1974.313,"body":"So its happening anyway."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1974.313,"endTime":1978.393,"body":"And it's about becoming familiar with"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1974.313,"endTime":1978.393,"body":"the idea and comfortable with the idea."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1978.843,"endTime":1982.113,"body":"So at the next step, you know,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1978.843,"endTime":1982.113,"body":"you have a call for change."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1983.0130000000001,"endTime":1986.973,"body":"Overcoming the vested interest of,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1983.0130000000001,"endTime":1986.973,"body":"well, we know if it's as successful"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1986.973,"endTime":1991.083,"body":"as we hope, you know, it does eat"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1986.973,"endTime":1991.083,"body":"into the power of those politicians."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":1992.583,"endTime":1994.353,"body":"So that, that is a tricky issue."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1994.816,"endTime":1998.116,"body":"So on on resources, one of one"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1994.816,"endTime":1998.116,"body":"thing that I tell people to check out if"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1998.116,"endTime":2000.9660000000001,"body":"they're listening is there's the Knowledge"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":1998.116,"endTime":2000.9660000000001,"body":"Network on Climate Assemblies, which"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2000.9660000000001,"endTime":2003.0900000000001,"body":"is run by lots of really good people."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2003.29,"endTime":2006.555,"body":"And they they have like lots of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2003.29,"endTime":2006.555,"body":"resources there and they, they"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2006.555,"endTime":2008.7250000000001,"body":"run webinars for people thinking"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2006.555,"endTime":2008.7250000000001,"body":"about doing climate assemblies."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2009.615,"endTime":2011.625,"body":"What's worth saying as well, and I"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2009.615,"endTime":2011.625,"body":"think Denise kinda touched on this,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2011.625,"endTime":2013.6950000000002,"body":"there's already a kind of latant group."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2013.6950000000002,"endTime":2017.535,"body":"There's a huge industry of public"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2013.6950000000002,"endTime":2017.535,"body":"participation practitioners and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2017.535,"endTime":2019.635,"body":"people who give up their time."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2019.635,"endTime":2022.185,"body":"Some of them are professionals,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2019.635,"endTime":2022.185,"body":"but some of 'em are volunteers."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2022.545,"endTime":2026.525,"body":"Uh, and there's a huge industry"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2022.545,"endTime":2026.525,"body":"of consulting within public works."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2027.125,"endTime":2029.65,"body":"And that that's always there and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2027.125,"endTime":2029.65,"body":"it's always growing actually."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2029.89,"endTime":2032.8300000000002,"body":"And there's people doing this innovative"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2029.89,"endTime":2032.8300000000002,"body":"stuff and, and, and trying to get"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2032.89,"endTime":2034.24,"body":"people involved in different ways."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2034.24,"endTime":2037.6000000000001,"body":"Sometimes using Sortition, but using"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2034.24,"endTime":2037.6000000000001,"body":"other methods as well to try and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2037.9,"endTime":2041.3200000000002,"body":"reach hard to reach groups, include"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2037.9,"endTime":2041.3200000000002,"body":"people in new ways, in policy making."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2041.776,"endTime":2043.463,"body":"And they probably don't get"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2041.776,"endTime":2043.463,"body":"the credit they deserve."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2043.506,"endTime":2047.376,"body":"But I think what's important is there's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2043.506,"endTime":2047.376,"body":"kind of this symbiotic relationship with"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2047.886,"endTime":2051.366,"body":"campaign groups and social movements, et"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2047.886,"endTime":2051.366,"body":"cetera, that are really important as well."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2051.726,"endTime":2056.256,"body":"Like a few years ago because it was one"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2051.726,"endTime":2056.256,"body":"of their demands Extinction Rebellion"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2056.256,"endTime":2060.096,"body":"was coming to a lot of us, kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2056.256,"endTime":2060.096,"body":"people who work on stuff I do and saying,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2060.096,"endTime":2061.836,"body":"uh, how do we do a citizens assembly?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2061.836,"endTime":2063.096,"body":"We want to do a Citizens assembly."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2063.666,"endTime":2067.011,"body":"And some of us were kind of saying like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2063.666,"endTime":2067.011,"body":"I'm not sure if Extinction Rebellion"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2067.011,"endTime":2070.041,"body":"should be doing a citizens assembly"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2067.011,"endTime":2070.041,"body":"because it's not a campaigning device."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2070.041,"endTime":2070.281,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2070.281,"endTime":2074.091,"body":"It's a, like we said, it's a device"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2070.281,"endTime":2074.091,"body":"for coming together and understanding,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2074.181,"endTime":2077.9610000000002,"body":"you know, how you overcome differences"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2074.181,"endTime":2077.9610000000002,"body":"in opinions about things and trying to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2077.966,"endTime":2079.731,"body":"come to collective clever solutions."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2079.9410000000003,"endTime":2083.121,"body":"What we need at the same time is a"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2079.9410000000003,"endTime":2083.121,"body":"radical flank that's kind of showing"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2083.121,"endTime":2086.721,"body":"us that another world is possible and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2083.121,"endTime":2086.721,"body":"you need that, that at the same time."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2086.721,"endTime":2090.725,"body":"So I might be a very you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2086.721,"endTime":2090.725,"body":"middle of the road person."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2090.725,"endTime":2093.605,"body":"And then I see someone who tells"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2090.725,"endTime":2093.605,"body":"me they're vegan and they don't"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2093.605,"endTime":2094.635,"body":"wanna sit on a leather couch."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2094.775,"endTime":2098.195,"body":"And I think that's a bit extreme, but"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2094.775,"endTime":2098.195,"body":"actually it makes me think when I go home"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2098.435,"endTime":2101.795,"body":"the next time I'm thinking about buying"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2098.435,"endTime":2101.795,"body":"some meat in the supermarket, I might go,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2101.8,"endTime":2103.805,"body":"okay, actually I should think about this."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2104.225,"endTime":2107.301,"body":"So, there's different things going on"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2104.225,"endTime":2107.301,"body":"in the political ecosphere and this"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2107.301,"endTime":2109.221,"body":"has to play a certain role within that."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2109.725,"endTime":2112.481,"body":"I really would, suggest"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2109.725,"endTime":2112.481,"body":"to people just kind of."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2113.121,"endTime":2116.106,"body":"It's an awareness that we want, that"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2113.121,"endTime":2116.106,"body":"people can play different roles in,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2116.166,"endTime":2119.976,"body":"in this and, and knowing that there's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2116.166,"endTime":2119.976,"body":"opportunities out there to, to do things"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2119.981,"endTime":2124.8360000000002,"body":"differently, and as Denise said, people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2119.981,"endTime":2124.8360000000002,"body":"are picking up on this so, you start off"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2125.166,"endTime":2129.46,"body":"with classically, you know, we see that"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2125.166,"endTime":2129.46,"body":"in, cities that have a very strong civil"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2129.46,"endTime":2133.06,"body":"society, like in Barcelona and Madrid,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2129.46,"endTime":2133.06,"body":"you know, the places where people, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2133.06,"endTime":2137.9500000000003,"body":"know, where there's a huge army of people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2133.06,"endTime":2137.9500000000003,"body":"who are, you know, urban, well educated,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2138.3450000000003,"endTime":2140.81,"body":"not to characterize anything, but you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2138.3450000000003,"endTime":2140.81,"body":"have this kind of civil society that,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2140.87,"endTime":2144.9900000000002,"body":"that can then build demand for these"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2140.87,"endTime":2144.9900000000002,"body":"things that usually they'll start there."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2144.9900000000002,"endTime":2148.55,"body":"But what you'll then see is that other,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2144.9900000000002,"endTime":2148.55,"body":"you know, kind of scruffy places that"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2148.55,"endTime":2152.096,"body":"I like to, hang out in, and, and I say"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2148.55,"endTime":2152.096,"body":"in the most affectionate way possible."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2152.101,"endTime":2153.116,"body":"They'll start taking this on."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2153.116,"endTime":2155.306,"body":"And the politicians there will"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2153.116,"endTime":2155.306,"body":"say, well, if they can do it"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2155.306,"endTime":2156.626,"body":"there, why can't we do it here?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2156.626,"endTime":2160.106,"body":"And there's kind of a contagion"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2156.626,"endTime":2160.106,"body":"effect that, that leads to change."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2160.106,"endTime":2164.146,"body":"So, it's a roundabout way of saying how"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2160.106,"endTime":2164.146,"body":"it happens is that, you know, people have"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2164.146,"endTime":2166.576,"body":"to be open minded and, and try things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2166.956,"endTime":2171.36,"body":"And, uh, and, what I think is important,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2166.956,"endTime":2171.36,"body":"and I'd be a big advocate of for, is"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2171.36,"endTime":2174.186,"body":"being agile and, and thinking, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2171.36,"endTime":2174.186,"body":"know, there's different designs that"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2174.186,"endTime":2178.176,"body":"can work in different places, but try"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2174.186,"endTime":2178.176,"body":"something, you know, rather than just"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2178.176,"endTime":2182.286,"body":"sit in your hands and say, politics is"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2178.176,"endTime":2182.286,"body":"rubbish and, uh, they're all corrupt."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2182.746,"endTime":2185.026,"body":"There's an element to that,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2182.746,"endTime":2185.026,"body":"but really, I spend a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2185.026,"endTime":2186.136,"body":"time with a lot of politicians."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2186.136,"endTime":2187.036,"body":"They're not all corrupt."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2187.216,"endTime":2191.506,"body":"They have, uh, a very difficult"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2187.216,"endTime":2191.506,"body":"incentive structure to work in."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2191.506,"endTime":2194.563,"body":"And we can have this podcast and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2191.506,"endTime":2194.563,"body":"talk and complain about everything,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2194.563,"endTime":2197.033,"body":"but at the end of the day, they"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2194.563,"endTime":2197.033,"body":"actually make the decisions."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2197.293,"endTime":2200.593,"body":"So we kind of, let them"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2197.293,"endTime":2200.593,"body":"do the hard work in a way."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2200.623,"endTime":2203.6730000000002,"body":"Now some of them really like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2200.623,"endTime":2203.6730000000002,"body":"themselves and they, they, they"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2203.6730000000002,"endTime":2204.943,"body":"like doing that work and they have."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2205.473,"endTime":2207.783,"body":"there's different problems there,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2205.473,"endTime":2207.783,"body":"but at the end of the day, someone"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2207.783,"endTime":2210.123,"body":"has to make these decisions and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2207.783,"endTime":2210.123,"body":"they're tough decisions and,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2210.123,"endTime":2211.443,"body":"you know, we have to compromise."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2211.863,"endTime":2215.223,"body":"And politics is designed to disappoint"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2211.863,"endTime":2215.223,"body":"in that, in that sense, because,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2215.223,"endTime":2218.013,"body":"if you're winning and, and you're"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2215.223,"endTime":2218.013,"body":"getting what you want, you're not"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2218.013,"endTime":2220.743,"body":"living in a democracy, you're in"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2218.013,"endTime":2220.743,"body":"some kind of authoritarian regime."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2221.313,"endTime":2223.563,"body":"So, you know, at the end of"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2221.313,"endTime":2223.563,"body":"the day, we have to compromise."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2223.563,"endTime":2224.823,"body":"We have to decide how to do that."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2225.476,"endTime":2228.956,"body":"The more we can think about different"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2225.476,"endTime":2228.956,"body":"ways of doing that and accepting that, but"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2228.956,"endTime":2233.376,"body":"also being, you know, true to our beliefs"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2228.956,"endTime":2233.376,"body":"and, and trying to find ways to disagree,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2233.381,"endTime":2235.306,"body":"but come to clever collective solutions."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2235.311,"endTime":2236.626,"body":"And that's what these things do, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2236.626,"endTime":2239.2960000000003,"body":"So they work alongside your"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2236.626,"endTime":2239.2960000000003,"body":"campaign organization and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2239.301,"endTime":2240.646,"body":"alongside your electoral system."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2240.646,"endTime":2244.606,"body":"You have these other options like"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2240.646,"endTime":2244.606,"body":"citizens assemblies that allow us"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2244.606,"endTime":2248.076,"body":"to weave a path between those, two"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2244.606,"endTime":2248.076,"body":"extremes of kind of shouting at each"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2248.076,"endTime":2251.0460000000003,"body":"other in, in a, in a parliament or"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2248.076,"endTime":2251.0460000000003,"body":"shouting at each other on the streets."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2251.346,"endTime":2253.926,"body":"And give us a kind of a safe"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2251.346,"endTime":2253.926,"body":"space to deliberate and come to"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2253.956,"endTime":2257.136,"body":"kind of solutions that we can,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2253.956,"endTime":2257.136,"body":"we can agree on and move forward."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2257.676,"endTime":2259.5460000000003,"body":"And speaking of shouting"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2257.676,"endTime":2259.5460000000003,"body":"at each other, I'm saying it's good"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2259.5660000000003,"endTime":2262.596,"body":"to have some good news stories,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2259.5660000000003,"endTime":2262.596,"body":"for Climate Confident Podcast."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2263.226,"endTime":2267.986,"body":"To me it was surprising that one of the"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2263.226,"endTime":2267.986,"body":"most successful was in Gdansk, Poland"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2267.986,"endTime":2273.263,"body":"um, but they had, uh, 60 people, you"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2267.986,"endTime":2273.263,"body":"know, just city dwellers in Gdansk and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2273.263,"endTime":2275.513,"body":"they were given authority to take action."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2275.518,"endTime":2280.343,"body":"So they actually did have some authority"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2275.518,"endTime":2280.343,"body":"and they made really, you know,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2280.348,"endTime":2285.503,"body":"sweeping changes on flood mitigation"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2280.348,"endTime":2285.503,"body":"and air pollution and more contentious"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2285.503,"endTime":2287.873,"body":"things about L G B T and so on."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2288.203,"endTime":2290.713,"body":"And they concluded with hugging."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2290.833,"endTime":2294.158,"body":"So , so they, they have worked"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2290.833,"endTime":2294.158,"body":"and, and not necessarily in"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2294.158,"endTime":2295.448,"body":"the places where you think."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2295.785,"endTime":2298.125,"body":"And also just to follow up on Matt,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2295.785,"endTime":2298.125,"body":"and he's talked about the knowledge"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2298.13,"endTime":2304.995,"body":"exchange, the website there is"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2298.13,"endTime":2304.995,"body":"knoca.eu, so that is the knowledge"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2304.995,"endTime":2308.385,"body":"network on climate assemblies"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2304.995,"endTime":2308.385,"body":"and that's got load of resources."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2308.745,"endTime":2309.105,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2309.375,"endTime":2309.675,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2310.125,"endTime":2310.425,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2310.43,"endTime":2312.8250000000003,"body":"We're coming towards the end"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2310.43,"endTime":2312.8250000000003,"body":"of the podcast now, folks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2313.335,"endTime":2318.3450000000003,"body":"Is there any question I haven't asked"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2313.335,"endTime":2318.3450000000003,"body":"that you wish I had or any aspect of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2318.3450000000003,"endTime":2321.555,"body":"this we haven't touched on that you think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2318.3450000000003,"endTime":2321.555,"body":"it's important to make people aware of?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2322.685,"endTime":2324.245,"body":"Where can you buy our book?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2327.2000000000003,"endTime":2329.06,"body":"I'll have links"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2327.2000000000003,"endTime":2329.06,"body":"to the book and the show notes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2329.06,"endTime":2329.54,"body":"Don't worry."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2329.54,"endTime":2330.9500000000003,"body":"As well as the, as well as the links."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2330.955,"endTime":2331.91,"body":"You called out so far."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2332.645,"endTime":2334.625,"body":"Jolly good."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2335.18,"endTime":2336.4700000000003,"body":"No, it's a great question."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2336.4700000000003,"endTime":2338.6,"body":"Like what, what questions"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2336.4700000000003,"endTime":2338.6,"body":"should I have asked that that's,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2338.75,"endTime":2340.4900000000002,"body":"it's really done me in a way."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2340.9700000000003,"endTime":2343.9700000000003,"body":"No, I think the point I, I think we've"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2340.9700000000003,"endTime":2343.9700000000003,"body":"talked about everything that we need"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2343.975,"endTime":2347.21,"body":"to talk about really, but the point"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2343.975,"endTime":2347.21,"body":"I would, I, I wanted to get across,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2347.663,"endTime":2351.373,"body":"most strongly is that like, these are"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2347.663,"endTime":2351.373,"body":"difficult decisions around climate and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2351.443,"endTime":2354.193,"body":"I think we all come to them sometimes"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2351.443,"endTime":2354.193,"body":"and we think we know the answers."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2354.803,"endTime":2357.9030000000002,"body":"And the great kind of humbling thing"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2354.803,"endTime":2357.9030000000002,"body":"is when you talk to other people, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2357.9030000000002,"endTime":2360.623,"body":"realize that you don't know all the"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2357.9030000000002,"endTime":2360.623,"body":"answers and there's problems that you,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2360.833,"endTime":2364.913,"body":"you haven't thought of and that people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2360.833,"endTime":2364.913,"body":"have other, you know, we could all stop"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2364.913,"endTime":2370.245,"body":"eating meat, stop flying and stop driving"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2364.913,"endTime":2370.245,"body":"cars or stop building stuff and whatever."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2370.695,"endTime":2374.415,"body":"But certain people have needs that mean"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2370.695,"endTime":2374.415,"body":"that they have to be able to do this."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2374.415,"endTime":2378.375,"body":"And there's a complex decision"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2374.415,"endTime":2378.375,"body":"making around who should do what."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2378.375,"endTime":2381.0750000000003,"body":"And that, that does seem obvious,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2378.375,"endTime":2381.0750000000003,"body":"but being struck by other people's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2381.0750000000003,"endTime":2383.025,"body":"stories is such a powerful thing."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2383.415,"endTime":2386.925,"body":"And whether it's just meeting people"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2383.415,"endTime":2386.925,"body":"in an assembly or reading about it in,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2386.985,"endTime":2391.111,"body":"in a newspaper or listen to it on a"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2386.985,"endTime":2391.111,"body":"podcast, we have to find the right mix."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2391.141,"endTime":2393.871,"body":"That means that there is kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2391.141,"endTime":2393.871,"body":"of entertainment like Denise"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2393.876,"endTime":2397.1150000000002,"body":"has thought about, but also,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2393.876,"endTime":2397.1150000000002,"body":"decision making structures and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2397.1150000000002,"endTime":2398.945,"body":"inclusion of of the right people."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2399.4700000000003,"endTime":2400.9700000000003,"body":"In, in the right ecosystem."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2400.9700000000003,"endTime":2403.7000000000003,"body":"So we're working through different"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2400.9700000000003,"endTime":2403.7000000000003,"body":"designs for this and we're not, we're"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2403.7000000000003,"endTime":2405.38,"body":"making mistakes, but we're getting there."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2405.38,"endTime":2408.88,"body":"And hopefully that's the positive"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2405.38,"endTime":2408.88,"body":"message about climate solutions from,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2409.48,"endTime":2412.9900000000002,"body":"this discussion is that, we're trying"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2409.48,"endTime":2412.9900000000002,"body":"things and, uh, we're, we're hopefully"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2412.9900000000002,"endTime":2417.613,"body":"going to, get to a place where we can"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2412.9900000000002,"endTime":2417.613,"body":"survive and thrive and flourish without,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2417.763,"endTime":2421.963,"body":"messing up the planet through doing"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2417.763,"endTime":2421.963,"body":"slightly different ways of doing politic."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2422.273,"endTime":2422.553,"body":"politics."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2422.578,"endTime":2422.938,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2423.0280000000002,"endTime":2423.268,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2423.358,"endTime":2423.598,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2424.198,"endTime":2430.198,"body":"If people would like to know more about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2424.198,"endTime":2430.198,"body":"yourself, Denise, or, Matt, or Citizen,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2430.2580000000003,"endTime":2433.318,"body":"citizen Assemblies, or any of the things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2430.2580000000003,"endTime":2433.318,"body":"we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2434.038,"endTime":2435.098,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2436.2980000000002,"endTime":2439.728,"body":"Well, we mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2436.2980000000002,"endTime":2439.728,"body":"sortition foundation.org and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2439.728,"endTime":2443.238,"body":"knoca.eu for the citizen assemblies."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2443.2980000000002,"endTime":2446.668,"body":"For me it's dabaden.com."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2446.868,"endTime":2448.7580000000003,"body":"It's where you can find"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2446.868,"endTime":2448.7580000000003,"body":"out what, what I get up to."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2449.658,"endTime":2454.033,"body":"Or just type my name into Google and"},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2449.658,"endTime":2454.033,"body":"all my various projects we come up"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2454.3830000000003,"endTime":2454.793,"body":"Lovely."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2455.4030000000002,"endTime":2456.503,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2455.4030000000002,"endTime":2456.503,"body":"probably similar for me."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2456.503,"endTime":2457.563,"body":"I'll mention a couple of things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2457.568,"endTime":2462.623,"body":"So the main, project I work on is called"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2457.568,"endTime":2462.623,"body":"robooting democracy, and that is basically"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2462.623,"endTime":2466.6730000000002,"body":"what we're trying to do there is use"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2462.623,"endTime":2466.6730000000002,"body":"new ways of using novel technologies"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2466.678,"endTime":2467.813,"body":"to try and get people involved."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2467.813,"endTime":2471.023,"body":"So it's not really, we, we, we we're"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2467.813,"endTime":2471.023,"body":"working on climate in some aspects, on"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2471.023,"endTime":2472.823,"body":"other social problems and other aspects."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2472.823,"endTime":2476.588,"body":"So it's really focused on how you, how"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2472.823,"endTime":2476.588,"body":"you involve people differently and try"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2476.588,"endTime":2478.628,"body":"and look at new ways of doing things."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2478.838,"endTime":2481.178,"body":"Another great resource, which"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2478.838,"endTime":2481.178,"body":"is another project I'm involved"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2481.178,"endTime":2482.788,"body":"in, is called Participedia.net."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2482.9230000000002,"endTime":2485.108,"body":"So it's like Wikipedia for participation."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2485.488,"endTime":2488.818,"body":"So if you go to Participedia.net, what"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2485.488,"endTime":2488.818,"body":"they have, it's, it's almost like a wiki"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2488.818,"endTime":2494.578,"body":"of all the great, really interesting cases"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2488.818,"endTime":2494.578,"body":"and methods that have been used to try and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2494.578,"endTime":2496.348,"body":"involve people differently in politics."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2496.348,"endTime":2500.863,"body":"So everything from climate assemblies, but"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2496.348,"endTime":2500.863,"body":"also things like participatory budgeting,"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2500.9230000000002,"endTime":2505.5460000000003,"body":"world cafes,  and interesting artistic"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2500.9230000000002,"endTime":2505.5460000000003,"body":"workshops like, um, participatory theater"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2505.551,"endTime":2506.926,"body":"and everything that you can imagine."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2506.931,"endTime":2510.3360000000002,"body":"So sometimes we get contacted by"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2506.931,"endTime":2510.3360000000002,"body":"policy makers or civil servants and"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2510.3360000000002,"endTime":2512.286,"body":"they go, oh, I found this thing."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2512.346,"endTime":2513.606,"body":"I'm thinking about how to do it."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2513.606,"endTime":2517.366,"body":"And I'd refer 'em to Participedia.Net"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2513.606,"endTime":2517.366,"body":"as a good resource to think about"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2517.551,"endTime":2520.401,"body":"here, here's a way of doing something"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2517.551,"endTime":2520.401,"body":"differently that has worked and here's"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2520.401,"endTime":2522.111,"body":"a case of how it has or hasn't worked."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2522.111,"endTime":2524.811,"body":"But you can learn from that in"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2522.111,"endTime":2524.811,"body":"a different part of the world."},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2524.811,"endTime":2526.851,"body":"So that's the place I"},{"speaker":"Matt Ryan","startTime":2524.811,"endTime":2526.851,"body":"would send people, really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2527.141,"endTime":2527.621,"body":"Superb."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2527.741,"endTime":2528.1910000000003,"body":"Superb."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2528.1910000000003,"endTime":2528.4610000000002,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2529.018,"endTime":2530.038,"body":"that's been really fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2530.038,"endTime":2531.748,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2530.038,"endTime":2531.748,"body":"in the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Denise Baden","startTime":2532.388,"endTime":2533.458,"body":"thank you for inviting us"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2534.978,"endTime":2536.868,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2534.978,"endTime":2536.868,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2537.558,"endTime":2538.698,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2539.538,"endTime":2542.448,"body":"If you'd like to know more about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2539.538,"endTime":2542.448,"body":"the Climate Confident podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2542.628,"endTime":2548.358,"body":"feel free to drop me an email"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2542.628,"endTime":2548.358,"body":"to Tom raftery@outlook.com."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2548.928,"endTime":2551.358,"body":"Or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2551.922,"endTime":2555.6420000000003,"body":"If you like the show, please, don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2551.922,"endTime":2555.6420000000003,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2555.6420000000003,"endTime":2560.172,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2555.6420000000003,"endTime":2560.172,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2560.802,"endTime":2563.742,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2560.802,"endTime":2563.742,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2563.952,"endTime":2566.652,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2563.952,"endTime":2566.652,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2567.552,"endTime":2569.592,"body":"Thanks, catch you all next time."}]}