{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":3.506,"endTime":7.326,"body":"we have more capacity in"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":3.506,"endTime":7.326,"body":"renewables in the United States lined up"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":7.326,"endTime":11.741,"body":"to come online and is currently waiting"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":7.326,"endTime":11.741,"body":"for permission than there is currently"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":11.741,"endTime":13.151,"body":"in operation in the United States."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":13.721,"endTime":18.131,"body":"We have similar situation in most"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":13.721,"endTime":18.131,"body":"developed countries, so part of it"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":18.131,"endTime":20.051,"body":"gets pretty wonky, pretty quickly."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":20.471,"endTime":26.441,"body":"But the reality is find ways to unblock,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":20.471,"endTime":26.441,"body":"find ways to cut the red tape, find"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":26.441,"endTime":29.181,"body":"ways to be able to move this forward"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":26.441,"endTime":29.181,"body":"in the time that we need, because it"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":29.201,"endTime":31.291,"body":"is possible, but we need to act now"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.467,"endTime":33.567,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.467,"endTime":33.567,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":33.567,"endTime":35.097,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.397,"endTime":37.527,"body":"This is the Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":37.767,"endTime":41.397,"body":"The number one podcast, showcasing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":37.767,"endTime":41.397,"body":"best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":41.397,"endTime":43.077,"body":"emission, reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":43.467,"endTime":45.357,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.566,"endTime":49.346,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.566,"endTime":49.346,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":49.466,"endTime":51.866,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.985,"endTime":54.525,"body":"Hi everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":54.525,"endTime":58.665,"body":"And welcome to episode 114 of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":54.525,"endTime":58.665,"body":"the climate confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":59.025,"endTime":60.255,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.255,"endTime":63.855,"body":"And before we kick off, I just want"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.255,"endTime":63.855,"body":"to take a quick second to express"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":63.855,"endTime":68.475,"body":"my sincere gratitude to all of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":63.855,"endTime":68.475,"body":"this podcast's amazing supporters."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.015,"endTime":72.795,"body":"Your support has been really instrumental"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.015,"endTime":72.795,"body":"in keeping this podcast going."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.155,"endTime":75.915,"body":"And I'm truly grateful for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.155,"endTime":75.915,"body":"each and every one of you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":77.085,"endTime":80.535,"body":"If you're not already supporter, I'd"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":77.085,"endTime":80.535,"body":"like to encourage you to consider joining"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":80.535,"endTime":83.985,"body":"our community of like-minded individuals"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":80.535,"endTime":83.985,"body":"who are passionate about climate."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":85.005,"endTime":88.275,"body":"Supporting this podcast is easy and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":85.005,"endTime":88.275,"body":"affordable with options starting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":88.545,"endTime":91.275,"body":"as low as just three euros or $3."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":91.875,"endTime":93.615,"body":"That's less than the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":91.875,"endTime":93.615,"body":"cost of a cup of coffee."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":94.275,"endTime":96.885,"body":"And your support will make"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":94.275,"endTime":96.885,"body":"a huge difference in keeping"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":96.885,"endTime":98.145,"body":"this show going strong."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":99.105,"endTime":100.155,"body":"To become a supporter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":100.515,"endTime":103.905,"body":"Simply click on the support"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":100.515,"endTime":103.905,"body":"link in the show notes of this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":104.135,"endTime":105.735,"body":"or any episode of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":106.235,"endTime":110.025,"body":"Or just visit tiny url.com/climate pod."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":111.115,"endTime":115.905,"body":"Now, without further ado with me on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":111.115,"endTime":115.905,"body":"the show today, I have my special guest"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":115.905,"endTime":118.425,"body":"Richard, Richard, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":118.425,"endTime":119.895,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":123.073,"endTime":123.733,"body":"Thanks, Tom."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":123.823,"endTime":124.633,"body":"Great to be here."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":124.753,"endTime":128.953,"body":"so it's Richard Delvin and I am"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":124.753,"endTime":128.953,"body":"a communications consultant that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":128.953,"endTime":132.373,"body":"works with energy and climate tech"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":128.953,"endTime":132.373,"body":"companies, based outta London."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":132.703,"endTime":137.383,"body":"And, uh, so prior to doing this,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":132.703,"endTime":137.383,"body":"I was a journalist for a number of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":137.383,"endTime":139.123,"body":"years, worked also in a startup."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":139.123,"endTime":141.583,"body":"So I come at this from a, a"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":139.123,"endTime":141.583,"body":"number of different angles."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":142.453,"endTime":143.203,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":143.203,"endTime":148.863,"body":"And this is, this is timely,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":143.203,"endTime":148.863,"body":"Richard, because we had the IPCC"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":148.878,"endTime":151.723,"body":"report published earlier this week."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":151.723,"endTime":153.223,"body":"Now I say earlier this week."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":153.223,"endTime":155.083,"body":"Today is Friday the 24th."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":155.533,"endTime":157.723,"body":"This podcast is gonna"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":155.533,"endTime":157.723,"body":"go over next Wednesday."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":157.723,"endTime":160.903,"body":"So for people who are watching or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":157.723,"endTime":160.903,"body":"listening to it, the report came"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":160.903,"endTime":166.663,"body":"out last week, , but, um, the report"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":160.903,"endTime":166.663,"body":"came out and received some press,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":166.843,"endTime":172.483,"body":"but I think there's a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":166.843,"endTime":172.483,"body":"confusion possibly around the report."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":172.783,"endTime":176.173,"body":"A, what is it, and B, what did it say?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":176.473,"endTime":179.653,"body":"I mean, we saw the headlines"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":176.473,"endTime":179.653,"body":"about an Antonio Guterres said,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":179.683,"endTime":183.913,"body":"but other than that, and you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":179.683,"endTime":183.913,"body":"are familiar with the report."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":184.683,"endTime":188.053,"body":"I received the, I, I received your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":184.683,"endTime":188.053,"body":"newsletter, your LinkedIn newsletter"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":188.053,"endTime":190.933,"body":"yesterday, where you went through it in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":188.053,"endTime":190.933,"body":"some detail and I thought Richard'd be the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":190.933,"endTime":192.613,"body":"perfect guy to get on to talk about it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":193.003,"endTime":195.493,"body":"So here you are, Richard."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":195.913,"endTime":198.853,"body":"Tell me about the IPCC report"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":195.913,"endTime":198.853,"body":"that came out this week."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":199.273,"endTime":199.873,"body":"What is it?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":200.023,"endTime":200.203,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":200.443,"endTime":203.443,"body":"Why is it, and, what are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":200.443,"endTime":203.443,"body":"the, what are the headlines?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":205.153,"endTime":207.643,"body":"Well, I suppose the,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":205.153,"endTime":207.643,"body":"the first thing to, to note is that,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":207.643,"endTime":211.763,"body":"that, as you say, the thing that got"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":207.643,"endTime":211.763,"body":"cut through with, kind of media over"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":211.763,"endTime":214.163,"body":"the course, of the day that followed."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":214.163,"endTime":217.943,"body":"It was probably the, the Secretary"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":214.163,"endTime":217.943,"body":"General's quote about everything"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":218.273,"endTime":219.653,"body":"everywhere, all at once."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":219.923,"endTime":220.493,"body":"That was beautiful."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":220.553,"endTime":222.833,"body":"You know, which was, was"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":220.553,"endTime":222.833,"body":"a well designed thing."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":223.223,"endTime":226.373,"body":"We might come back to how that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":223.223,"endTime":226.373,"body":"worked as a communications tactic."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":226.696,"endTime":230.776,"body":"Cuz I do think that, that while that got"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":226.696,"endTime":230.776,"body":"cut through, and as well as the headline"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":231.076,"endTime":236.986,"body":"on the report itself, being that this was"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":231.076,"endTime":236.986,"body":"the final warning, from the IPCC about the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":236.986,"endTime":242.236,"body":"opportunity to really still bend the curve"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":236.986,"endTime":242.236,"body":"on temperature rise, and this being really"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":242.236,"endTime":247.126,"body":"the last chance, until the next report of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":242.236,"endTime":247.126,"body":"this kind, which won't be for five years."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":247.536,"endTime":252.786,"body":"So their key takeaway being that we"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":247.536,"endTime":252.786,"body":"only have a few years to make decisions"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":253.176,"endTime":256.506,"body":"that will determine whether or not"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":253.176,"endTime":256.506,"body":"the world stays under 1.5 degrees"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":256.506,"endTime":258.846,"body":"C of warming or overshoots that."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":259.526,"endTime":262.646,"body":"So this is the sixth, synthesis"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":259.526,"endTime":262.646,"body":"report as they call it."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":263.006,"endTime":266.695,"body":"So this is taking reports that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":263.006,"endTime":266.695,"body":"they've been issuing since 2018,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":266.951,"endTime":270.331,"body":"more than 700 scientists involved"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":266.951,"endTime":270.331,"body":"in the preparation of the report"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":270.691,"endTime":271.981,"body":"from countries around the world."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":272.528,"endTime":276.308,"body":"Obviously a process of negotiation"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":272.528,"endTime":276.308,"body":"to come to a consensus on that."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":276.608,"endTime":280.958,"body":"But the, the thing that they do"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":276.608,"endTime":280.958,"body":"report with high confidence is that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":281.078,"endTime":286.631,"body":"this really is the last window of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":281.078,"endTime":286.631,"body":"opportunity, before which we bake in,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":286.866,"endTime":291.216,"body":"a lot of irreversible, or at least in"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":286.866,"endTime":291.216,"body":"the near term, irreversible effects,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":291.456,"endTime":292.836,"body":"from that, increase in temperature."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":293.933,"endTime":296.453,"body":"And it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":293.933,"endTime":296.453,"body":"interesting you say that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":296.453,"endTime":300.923,"body":"I mean 700 scientists, but it's not just"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":296.453,"endTime":300.923,"body":"the scientists who helped craft this, is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":300.923,"endTime":307.283,"body":"it there were, uh, state actors involved"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":300.923,"endTime":307.283,"body":"as well, which means that the output,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":307.313,"endTime":312.433,"body":"the final report that was published"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":307.313,"endTime":312.433,"body":"was by definition of compromise, right?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":314.313,"endTime":317.048,"body":"I think anytime you're"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":314.313,"endTime":317.048,"body":"trying to get a consensus of that, that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":317.108,"endTime":321.451,"body":"many people from whatever walk of life,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":317.108,"endTime":321.451,"body":"I think that, you're always talking about"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":321.456,"endTime":325.856,"body":"trying to find in the, their case, I think"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":321.456,"endTime":325.856,"body":"the highest common denominator, because"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":325.856,"endTime":329.216,"body":"of the importance and the urgency of the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":325.856,"endTime":329.216,"body":"message they're trying to get across."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":329.666,"endTime":333.716,"body":"Um, so while I think of course with any,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":329.666,"endTime":333.716,"body":"any process like that, there's going"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":333.716,"endTime":337.446,"body":"to be various ways of trying to frame"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":333.716,"endTime":337.446,"body":"the different issues that are involved."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":337.976,"endTime":342.338,"body":"How to talk about various parts of the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":337.976,"endTime":342.338,"body":"energy mix, various ways of talking"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":342.338,"endTime":345.948,"body":"about issues around loss and damage,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":342.338,"endTime":345.948,"body":"issues around the obligations of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":346.368,"endTime":349.128,"body":"the developed world in particular,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":346.368,"endTime":349.128,"body":"the ones who have put the most"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":349.338,"endTime":351.048,"body":"greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":351.318,"endTime":355.398,"body":"What moral obligations do they have"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":351.318,"endTime":355.398,"body":"to the less developed world or indeed"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":355.728,"endTime":360.665,"body":"those for whom, access to reliable,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":355.728,"endTime":360.665,"body":"affordable energy is an issue."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":360.9,"endTime":364.44,"body":"You know, the 750 million people"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":360.9,"endTime":364.44,"body":"around the world who don't currently"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":364.44,"endTime":367.83,"body":"have reliable access to electricity,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":364.44,"endTime":367.83,"body":"it's a bit difficult to say,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":367.83,"endTime":369.4,"body":"you must go off and buy an ev."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":370.05,"endTime":373.08,"body":"That's not necessarily gonna be relevant"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":370.05,"endTime":373.08,"body":"if you're in all parts of the world."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":373.085,"endTime":377.82,"body":"And I think that's, an important part"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":373.085,"endTime":377.82,"body":"of, of how the report gets put together"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":377.85,"endTime":381.54,"body":"is the balance of interest between, you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":377.85,"endTime":381.54,"body":"know, people representing all of us."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":382.32,"endTime":382.44,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":382.68,"endTime":382.74,"body":". Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":383.22,"endTime":386.64,"body":"So what were the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":383.22,"endTime":386.64,"body":"headlines from the report?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":386.64,"endTime":388.03,"body":"What were the key things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":386.64,"endTime":388.03,"body":"that came out of it?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":389.99,"endTime":392.715,"body":"I think one of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":389.99,"endTime":392.715,"body":"the key things was this call for,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":392.93,"endTime":397.335,"body":"the, need to accelerate, this"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":392.93,"endTime":397.335,"body":"move towards net zero overall."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":397.575,"endTime":400.155,"body":"I think that's one of the key"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":397.575,"endTime":400.155,"body":"takeaways for policy makers and for"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":400.155,"endTime":404.085,"body":"the broader community, is that, you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":400.155,"endTime":404.085,"body":"know, the electrification of the energy"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":404.09,"endTime":408.685,"body":"system, moving the energy transition"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":404.09,"endTime":408.685,"body":"to net zero as fast as possible."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":409.008,"endTime":410.728,"body":"That to bring some of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":409.008,"endTime":410.728,"body":"these things forward."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":411.358,"endTime":415.248,"body":"That we risk, you know, overshooting"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":411.358,"endTime":415.248,"body":"by various kind of elements there."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":415.818,"endTime":420.378,"body":"I think the other key takeaway is"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":415.818,"endTime":420.378,"body":"that in addition to the, the kind of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":420.708,"endTime":424.908,"body":"global justice aspect of it that I"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":420.708,"endTime":424.908,"body":"referenced before is the need that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":424.908,"endTime":429.258,"body":"even if we do everything right,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":424.908,"endTime":429.258,"body":"there's still going to be a gap."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":429.948,"endTime":435.003,"body":"So even if we eat less beef,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":429.948,"endTime":435.003,"body":"even if we, you know, decarbonize"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":435.003,"endTime":435.993,"body":"the electricity system."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":436.383,"endTime":441.303,"body":"Even if we do all of the other things,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":436.383,"endTime":441.303,"body":"there's still gonna be a gap to keep us"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":441.873,"endTime":448.013,"body":"in that kind of safer zone of under two"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":441.873,"endTime":448.013,"body":"degrees C and ideally under 1.5 degrees C."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":448.443,"endTime":453.843,"body":"And that's gonna require the ability"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":448.443,"endTime":453.843,"body":"for us to capture and remove carbon"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":453.843,"endTime":457.263,"body":"and other greenhouse gases from the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":453.843,"endTime":457.263,"body":"atmosphere that are already there."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":457.906,"endTime":461.941,"body":"The consensus is that once we stop"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":457.906,"endTime":461.941,"body":"putting greenhouse gases and particularly"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":461.941,"endTime":468.571,"body":"CO2 into the atmosphere that we will"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":461.941,"endTime":468.571,"body":"see a, a gradual cooling over time, but"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":468.901,"endTime":473.551,"body":"that we will need to find ways to scale"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":468.901,"endTime":473.551,"body":"technologies as well as nature-based"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":473.551,"endTime":478.741,"body":"solutions that are going to be able to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":473.551,"endTime":478.741,"body":"help to, you know, both capture CO2 before"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":478.741,"endTime":480.901,"body":"it's emitted and find ways to store it."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":481.291,"endTime":484.728,"body":"But also, my particular point"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":481.291,"endTime":484.728,"body":"of view on this is that, we need"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":484.728,"endTime":487.938,"body":"to find technological ways to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":484.728,"endTime":487.938,"body":"be able to accelerate those."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":488.338,"endTime":491.593,"body":"To improve ways of removing carbon"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":488.338,"endTime":491.593,"body":"that's already in the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":492.898,"endTime":493.113,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":494.403,"endTime":498.993,"body":"We don't really have any"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":494.403,"endTime":498.993,"body":"good ways of doing that yet."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":499.023,"endTime":499.623,"body":"Do we?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":499.623,"endTime":504.393,"body":"I mean, I know there's some demonstrators,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":499.623,"endTime":504.393,"body":"there's a Clime Works one in Iceland"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":504.393,"endTime":507.483,"body":"and a few others, and I had a, couple"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":504.393,"endTime":507.483,"body":"of guests on the podcast from a company"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":507.483,"endTime":510.963,"body":"called Undo a few months back and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":507.483,"endTime":510.963,"body":"they were doing enhanced weathering"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":510.963,"endTime":514.503,"body":"solutions, for example, and they"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":510.963,"endTime":514.503,"body":"were hoping to get to 10 million"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":514.503,"endTime":516.963,"body":"tons removal in several years time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":516.968,"endTime":522.453,"body":"And you know, 10 million is barely"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":516.968,"endTime":522.453,"body":"a drop in the ocean for what we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":522.453,"endTime":523.803,"body":"need to get outta the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":523.923,"endTime":528.483,"body":"We, we need to be taking tens of billions"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":523.923,"endTime":528.483,"body":"of tons outta the atmosphere every year."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":529.233,"endTime":531.663,"body":"So 10 million barely puts a dent in that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":531.668,"endTime":536.253,"body":"So how do we get from there to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":531.668,"endTime":536.253,"body":"where we actually need to be?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":565.1030000000001,"endTime":567.2330000000001,"body":"Well, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":565.1030000000001,"endTime":567.2330000000001,"body":"an important point, which is to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":567.2330000000001,"endTime":571.0400000000001,"body":"recognize that, no one from, that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":567.2330000000001,"endTime":571.0400000000001,"body":"industry who I've heard speak is saying"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":571.0400000000001,"endTime":573.0400000000001,"body":"this is a panacea or a silver bullet."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":573.47,"endTime":578.1350000000001,"body":"It doesn't avoid, the first and urgent"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":573.47,"endTime":578.1350000000001,"body":"necessity to do those other things to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":578.1350000000001,"endTime":582.365,"body":"decarbonize, even the hard to abate"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":578.1350000000001,"endTime":582.365,"body":"sectors like steel, like cement, like"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":582.37,"endTime":584.975,"body":"aviation, like aluminum, like minerals."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":585.3950000000001,"endTime":589.1750000000001,"body":"But also to make sure that, you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":585.3950000000001,"endTime":589.1750000000001,"body":"know, emissions are prevented from"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":589.1750000000001,"endTime":590.5550000000001,"body":"being emitted in the first place."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":590.5550000000001,"endTime":591.605,"body":"That's the first priority."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":592.0550000000001,"endTime":594.875,"body":"And if you hear people from Clime"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":592.0550000000001,"endTime":594.875,"body":"Works, or Undo, or any of these"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":594.875,"endTime":598.475,"body":"other companies speak, they seem"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":594.875,"endTime":598.475,"body":"pretty consistent in that message."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":598.825,"endTime":601.22,"body":"That this is  a contribution to that."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":601.7600000000001,"endTime":605.09,"body":"I think the question is"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":601.7600000000001,"endTime":605.09,"body":"how quickly can it scale?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":605.5100000000001,"endTime":608.9300000000001,"body":"Because of course, we are, as you say"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":605.5100000000001,"endTime":608.9300000000001,"body":"at the beginning of that process where"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":608.9300000000001,"endTime":611.82,"body":"we have, people who are experimenting"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":608.9300000000001,"endTime":611.82,"body":"with different technologies."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":611.82,"endTime":615.475,"body":"You'd mentioned about, you know, one"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":611.82,"endTime":615.475,"body":"solution about weathering, other solutions"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":615.475,"endTime":620.1080000000001,"body":"about essentially look like very large,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":615.475,"endTime":620.1080000000001,"body":"refrigerated, kind of containers that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":620.1080000000001,"endTime":623.738,"body":"are sitting on mountaintops in Iceland"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":620.1080000000001,"endTime":623.738,"body":"or a new one going online in Wyoming."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":624.378,"endTime":627.008,"body":"And other places where, we"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":624.378,"endTime":627.008,"body":"have the ability to do that."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":627.368,"endTime":631.5310000000001,"body":"The question is, and this is why I think"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":627.368,"endTime":631.5310000000001,"body":"companies like Microsoft or some other"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":631.5310000000001,"endTime":636.335,"body":"early adopters who have paid, these"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":631.5310000000001,"endTime":636.335,"body":"companies to, verifiably, remove a certain"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":636.335,"endTime":638.7950000000001,"body":"quantum of CO2 from the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":639.215,"endTime":643.085,"body":"If we wind the clock back and long"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":639.215,"endTime":643.085,"body":"enough, you know, we can look at people"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":643.085,"endTime":646.475,"body":"saying solar, that's never gonna be a"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":643.085,"endTime":646.475,"body":"major contributor to the energy mix."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":646.9250000000001,"endTime":647.6450000000001,"body":"Ah, wind."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":647.6750000000001,"endTime":648.845,"body":"That's just never gonna work."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":648.845,"endTime":649.725,"body":"It doesn't scale."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":650.1510000000001,"endTime":653.835,"body":"With any, you know, disruptive"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":650.1510000000001,"endTime":653.835,"body":"technology that comes in, there is a"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":653.835,"endTime":657.9150000000001,"body":"pattern and I think that that's one"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":653.835,"endTime":657.9150000000001,"body":"of the things that's, why there's,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":657.9150000000001,"endTime":660.345,"body":"I think, some interest and optimism."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":660.585,"endTime":664.6650000000001,"body":"Uh, not that the sector's gonna solve"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":660.585,"endTime":664.6650000000001,"body":"everything, but that it can play a role."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":664.9350000000001,"endTime":669.1350000000001,"body":"And I think that because the opportunity"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":664.9350000000001,"endTime":669.1350000000001,"body":"to improve the efficiency and scalability"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":669.1350000000001,"endTime":673.725,"body":"of technology, obviously we need to do"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":669.1350000000001,"endTime":673.725,"body":"the other nature-based things as well."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":674.0250000000001,"endTime":677.955,"body":"We need to make sure we're"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":674.0250000000001,"endTime":677.955,"body":"protecting existing old growth"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":677.955,"endTime":681.705,"body":"forests, mangrove swamps, um,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":677.955,"endTime":681.705,"body":"that are excellent carbon sinks."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":681.71,"endTime":685.8710000000001,"body":"We need to make sure, as we're pleased"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":681.71,"endTime":685.8710000000001,"body":"to see, recent political change in Brazil"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":686.201,"endTime":689.8910000000001,"body":"where there seems to be pledge to ensure"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":686.201,"endTime":689.8910000000001,"body":"that more of the Amazon remains intact and"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":689.8910000000001,"endTime":691.961,"body":"less of it's cleared for cattle raising."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":692.471,"endTime":696.4110000000001,"body":"So I think that, you know, we have"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":692.471,"endTime":696.4110000000001,"body":"to do all those things, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":696.4110000000001,"endTime":697.971,"body":"sure we'll need to do more of them."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":698.211,"endTime":702.5010000000001,"body":"I'm sure that we'll be seeing genetic"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":698.211,"endTime":702.5010000000001,"body":"modification to look at ways of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":702.561,"endTime":707.436,"body":"increasing the carbon sink potential"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":702.561,"endTime":707.436,"body":"of some of these, new growth, forests,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":707.4960000000001,"endTime":710.316,"body":"whether they be in mangrove swamps or"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":707.4960000000001,"endTime":710.316,"body":"whether they be other types of trees,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":710.7360000000001,"endTime":714.426,"body":"where we might see an improvement"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":710.7360000000001,"endTime":714.426,"body":"of uptake of carbon over time."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":714.9060000000001,"endTime":718.476,"body":"But I think on the technology side,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":714.9060000000001,"endTime":718.476,"body":"outside of biotech, you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":718.476,"endTime":723.5160000000001,"body":"see, the ability to find ways, to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":718.476,"endTime":723.5160000000001,"body":"scale these technologies faster."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":723.6060000000001,"endTime":727.206,"body":"And I think how fast that's going to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":723.6060000000001,"endTime":727.206,"body":"go, we just don't know, which is why,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":727.316,"endTime":730.7660000000001,"body":"it is a bit nervous making to look at"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":727.316,"endTime":730.7660000000001,"body":"the numbers and say, well, how much of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":730.7660000000001,"endTime":733.1060000000001,"body":"this do we need to capture or remove?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":733.556,"endTime":737.456,"body":"You know, the numbers aren't huge in"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":733.556,"endTime":737.456,"body":"terms of making the maths work from"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":737.456,"endTime":741.5600000000001,"body":"the IPCC, but that's also why I think"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":737.456,"endTime":741.5600000000001,"body":"when you see the quotes from individual"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":741.565,"endTime":745.5200000000001,"body":"scientists who contribute to the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":741.565,"endTime":745.5200000000001,"body":"report, they say, it is likely we will"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":745.5200000000001,"endTime":752.44,"body":"overshoot, but every 0.1 degree c, we"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":745.5200000000001,"endTime":752.44,"body":"overshoot it becomes harder to fix."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":752.9100000000001,"endTime":757.235,"body":"And so that's why finding ways and"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":752.9100000000001,"endTime":757.235,"body":"scaling them quickly is really important."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":757.3850000000001,"endTime":757.745,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":759.0050000000001,"endTime":762.9050000000001,"body":"There's also the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":759.0050000000001,"endTime":762.9050000000001,"body":"issue of cost as well, right?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":762.9050000000001,"endTime":769.485,"body":"Because, the sooner we act, the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":762.9050000000001,"endTime":769.485,"body":"cheaper because, right, uh, if"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":769.485,"endTime":772.365,"body":"we leave a go longer, it's just"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":769.485,"endTime":772.365,"body":"gonna get more expensive to fix."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":773.985,"endTime":775.5450000000001,"body":"And I think"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":773.985,"endTime":775.5450000000001,"body":"this is a point that lots of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":775.5450000000001,"endTime":777.1650000000001,"body":"other market observers have made."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":777.225,"endTime":779.4050000000001,"body":"There's a great company"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":777.225,"endTime":779.4050000000001,"body":"in London called B Zero."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":780.105,"endTime":783.1880000000001,"body":"They're a carbon credits rating"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":780.105,"endTime":783.1880000000001,"body":"agency, and they, they put out a"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":783.1880000000001,"endTime":787.0740000000001,"body":"report, advising the UK government"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":783.1880000000001,"endTime":787.0740000000001,"body":"about, the need to scale some of these"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":787.0740000000001,"endTime":788.8140000000001,"body":"sectors quickly for that exact reason."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":789.234,"endTime":792.594,"body":"The sooner we scale these things"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":789.234,"endTime":792.594,"body":"and the sooner we do all of the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":792.599,"endTime":796.494,"body":"other aspects of decarbonization,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":792.599,"endTime":796.494,"body":"the less expensive this is."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":796.9140000000001,"endTime":801.2940000000001,"body":"And if you wind the clock way back,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":796.9140000000001,"endTime":801.2940000000001,"body":"I mean, I was listening, or reading,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":801.354,"endTime":804.2940000000001,"body":"uh, Peter Francopan's amazing"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":801.354,"endTime":804.2940000000001,"body":"new book, The Earth Transformed."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":804.9540000000001,"endTime":808.014,"body":"For those of your, your listeners or,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":804.9540000000001,"endTime":808.014,"body":"or viewers who haven't heard of it yet."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":808.134,"endTime":809.964,"body":"He's the author of the Silk Roads."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":810.2940000000001,"endTime":815.274,"body":"It's a incredibly long book, but"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":810.2940000000001,"endTime":815.274,"body":"there is, it's rich with, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":815.274,"endTime":820.1940000000001,"body":"it stretches from 4.5 billion years"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":815.274,"endTime":820.1940000000001,"body":"ago to today in terms of the impact"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":820.1940000000001,"endTime":823.224,"body":"of climate on history generally,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":820.1940000000001,"endTime":823.224,"body":"and particularly on human history."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":823.8240000000001,"endTime":826.3140000000001,"body":"And for those of us old enough to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":823.8240000000001,"endTime":826.3140000000001,"body":"remember, and I'm not gonna say"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":826.3140000000001,"endTime":828.994,"body":"you're old, as old as me, Tom, but"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":826.3140000000001,"endTime":828.994,"body":"I'm certainly old enough to remember"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":828.994,"endTime":834.2790000000001,"body":"George Bush pere, you know, running"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":828.994,"endTime":834.2790000000001,"body":"in 1988 saying, you know, if you're"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":834.2790000000001,"endTime":837.6990000000001,"body":"worried about the greenhouse effect,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":834.2790000000001,"endTime":837.6990000000001,"body":"wait until you see the White House"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":837.6990000000001,"endTime":842.6790000000001,"body":"effect, and promising to tackle"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":837.6990000000001,"endTime":842.6790000000001,"body":"greenhouse emissions as far back as 1988."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":843.249,"endTime":847.269,"body":"And of course we've had many of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":843.249,"endTime":847.269,"body":"these opportunities to be able"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":847.269,"endTime":851.8290000000001,"body":"to move quicker, you know, moving"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":847.269,"endTime":851.8290000000001,"body":"from that to Rio to Kyoto, to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":851.8290000000001,"endTime":853.4490000000001,"body":"the beginning of the COP process."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":853.9050000000001,"endTime":857.445,"body":"And we've had many, many different"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":853.9050000000001,"endTime":857.445,"body":"opportunities to, to move this."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":857.9250000000001,"endTime":862.095,"body":"One of the, the biggest reasons that we"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":857.9250000000001,"endTime":862.095,"body":"didn't, and again, this is an excellent"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":862.095,"endTime":867.105,"body":"part of Francopan's book, is that when"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":862.095,"endTime":867.105,"body":"the Cold War ended, we entered this period"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":867.105,"endTime":872.1320000000001,"body":"of globalization, which enabled a far"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":867.105,"endTime":872.1320000000001,"body":"greater amount of economic interdependence"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":872.162,"endTime":873.7220000000001,"body":"and connectivity around the world."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":874.322,"endTime":878.1320000000001,"body":"And that did things like raise 400"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":874.322,"endTime":878.1320000000001,"body":"million people in China out of poverty."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":878.822,"endTime":882.797,"body":"So I think that while we can"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":878.822,"endTime":882.797,"body":"look back and say, we should have"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":882.797,"endTime":884.147,"body":"taken all of these off ramps."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":884.177,"endTime":885.4670000000001,"body":"It would've been cheaper sooner."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":885.947,"endTime":888.3770000000001,"body":"At the time, there was"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":885.947,"endTime":888.3770000000001,"body":"always a good reason to do"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":888.3770000000001,"endTime":889.427,"body":"something slightly differently."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":889.9970000000001,"endTime":893.027,"body":"So I think now this is why we will"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":889.9970000000001,"endTime":893.027,"body":"find ourselves in the situation"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":893.027,"endTime":895.8470000000001,"body":"that we're in, and that's why the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":893.027,"endTime":895.8470000000001,"body":"problem is as urgent as it is."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":896.8370000000001,"endTime":897.2270000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":898.6370000000001,"endTime":901.2170000000001,"body":"Did the reports cut through?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":901.277,"endTime":903.167,"body":"Did did people take notice?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":903.167,"endTime":904.397,"body":"I mean, sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":904.4570000000001,"endTime":908.3570000000001,"body":"You and I took notice, but it's something"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":904.4570000000001,"endTime":908.3570000000001,"body":"that we're, we're interested in and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":908.417,"endTime":913.9670000000001,"body":"monitor anyway, but did the people who"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":908.417,"endTime":913.9670000000001,"body":"can actually make a difference notice?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":915.8570000000001,"endTime":918.7070000000001,"body":"I think that one"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":915.8570000000001,"endTime":918.7070000000001,"body":"of the things that's different"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":918.7070000000001,"endTime":923.3870000000001,"body":"today than say 20 years ago, I've"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":918.7070000000001,"endTime":923.3870000000001,"body":"been working with companies on"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":923.4770000000001,"endTime":926.7170000000001,"body":"advising, on their communications and"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":923.4770000000001,"endTime":926.7170000000001,"body":"organizations for, for quite a while."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":927.317,"endTime":931.6070000000001,"body":"And I would say that, you know, 15, 20"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":927.317,"endTime":931.6070000000001,"body":"years ago, people might have slightly"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":931.6070000000001,"endTime":937.157,"body":"noticed the IPCC, but you wouldn't see"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":931.6070000000001,"endTime":937.157,"body":"it being paid attention in sustainability"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":937.547,"endTime":941.5340000000001,"body":"practices within a corporation, you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":937.547,"endTime":941.5340000000001,"body":"wouldn't have seen, the ceo, actually"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":941.5390000000001,"endTime":943.0640000000001,"body":"paying attention to some of these things."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":943.514,"endTime":946.5440000000001,"body":"So I think that there are other"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":943.514,"endTime":946.5440000000001,"body":"communications channels that do"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":946.5440000000001,"endTime":950.474,"body":"reach decision makers who are key"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":946.5440000000001,"endTime":950.474,"body":"players in making a difference."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":951.014,"endTime":954.6400000000001,"body":"But I would agree with you that, it's"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":951.014,"endTime":954.6400000000001,"body":"something here in the uk we looked"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":954.6400000000001,"endTime":958.6,"body":"at the coverage and you saw your"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":954.6400000000001,"endTime":958.6,"body":"day one story and Guardian and on,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":958.7800000000001,"endTime":960.84,"body":"you know, kind of PM on BBC Radio 4."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":961.3100000000001,"endTime":963.49,"body":"And then I went back this morning,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":961.3100000000001,"endTime":963.49,"body":"actually before I knew we were"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":963.49,"endTime":967.12,"body":"gonna be recording and, and listened"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":963.49,"endTime":967.12,"body":"back to what was the lead story the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":967.125,"endTime":969.7,"body":"following morning on the Today Program."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":969.705,"endTime":971.71,"body":"The flagship news program on Radio four."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":971.8000000000001,"endTime":972.4000000000001,"body":"And what was it?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":972.94,"endTime":976.33,"body":"It was about a poli, a report,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":972.94,"endTime":976.33,"body":"you know, into the need for"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":976.33,"endTime":977.9200000000001,"body":"reform in the Metropolitan Police."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":978.22,"endTime":978.7800000000001,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":978.7850000000001,"endTime":982.75,"body":"Um, it didn't get a shout, it did"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":978.7850000000001,"endTime":982.75,"body":"not get a look in, so it really"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":982.75,"endTime":986.5,"body":"wasn't for many mainstream media"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":982.75,"endTime":986.5,"body":"outlets a day, one day story."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":987.2800000000001,"endTime":991.21,"body":"and of course, you know, the Secretary"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":987.2800000000001,"endTime":991.21,"body":"General's quote got the most, you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":991.21,"endTime":995.23,"body":"know, kind of cut through, because"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":991.21,"endTime":995.23,"body":"it was catchy and referenced the, the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":995.23,"endTime":997.1500000000001,"body":"most award-winning film of all time."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":997.72,"endTime":1003.34,"body":"But, that's unfortunately not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":997.72,"endTime":1003.34,"body":"something that leads people to say,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1003.345,"endTime":1004.6,"body":"well, what can I do about this?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1005.1700000000001,"endTime":1005.35,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1005.4100000000001,"endTime":1007.99,"body":"Um, in talking to people,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1005.4100000000001,"endTime":1007.99,"body":"like, how was this received?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1008.1,"endTime":1010.9300000000001,"body":"People who aren't working in"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1008.1,"endTime":1010.9300000000001,"body":"this business, people who aren't"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1011.08,"endTime":1015.167,"body":"necessarily paying as close attention"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1011.08,"endTime":1015.167,"body":"as you or I, the, the reactions"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1015.172,"endTime":1016.417,"body":"tend to be a couple of things."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1016.817,"endTime":1019.4870000000001,"body":"One, gosh, that sounds terrible."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1019.697,"endTime":1022.577,"body":"Exactly the same way it sounded terrible"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1019.697,"endTime":1022.577,"body":"the last time I heard about this."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1023.714,"endTime":1025.334,"body":"what am I supposed to do about that?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1026.144,"endTime":1029.264,"body":"And that's, you know, the reaction"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1026.144,"endTime":1029.264,"body":"is, is a feeling of disempowerment."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1030.074,"endTime":1033.074,"body":"I think the second piece is that,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1030.074,"endTime":1033.074,"body":"okay, well, so I don't actually"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1033.079,"endTime":1039.074,"body":"see where my agency is in helping"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1033.079,"endTime":1039.074,"body":"contribute to any kind of a solution."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1040.064,"endTime":1042.974,"body":"And the second thought, if you have"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1040.064,"endTime":1042.974,"body":"one, particularly if you have children"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1043.094,"endTime":1047.414,"body":"or grandchildren, is gosh, I really"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1043.094,"endTime":1047.414,"body":"don't want to think about this because"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1047.414,"endTime":1049.034,"body":"how am I gonna talk to my kids?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1049.604,"endTime":1053.5040000000001,"body":"How am I gonna tell them we had all"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1049.604,"endTime":1053.5040000000001,"body":"these chances and we didn't take them?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1054.614,"endTime":1058.2440000000001,"body":"And I think that that leaves people"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1054.614,"endTime":1058.2440000000001,"body":"in a place where if you're running"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1058.2440000000001,"endTime":1061.574,"body":"a news desk or if you're running a,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1058.2440000000001,"endTime":1061.574,"body":"you're an assignment editor, it's"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1061.579,"endTime":1066.067,"body":"difficult to, you know, take that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1061.579,"endTime":1066.067,"body":"story and run it for three days cuz"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1066.067,"endTime":1068.1970000000001,"body":"I suppose part of it is, what's new?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1068.977,"endTime":1073.837,"body":"And even though the, the report itself"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1068.977,"endTime":1073.837,"body":"talks a lot about solutions,  and"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1073.837,"endTime":1076.867,"body":"even though the Secretary General was"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1073.837,"endTime":1076.867,"body":"important, you know, importantly did focus"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1076.867,"endTime":1081.997,"body":"on innovations, credible real innovations"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1076.867,"endTime":1081.997,"body":"about how we do something about this."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1082.537,"endTime":1086.6770000000001,"body":"I think the, the reporting and the overall"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1082.537,"endTime":1086.6770000000001,"body":"coverage, um, you know, if there was"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1086.6770000000001,"endTime":1090.067,"body":"advice for newsrooms, there's a couple"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1086.6770000000001,"endTime":1090.067,"body":"of great groups like Covering Climate"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1090.0720000000001,"endTime":1093.884,"body":"Now, out of New York, and there are"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1090.0720000000001,"endTime":1093.884,"body":"some others that are trying to advise"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1093.884,"endTime":1096.044,"body":"newsrooms about how to cover these things."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1096.044,"endTime":1100.414,"body":"And, also organizations trying to suggest"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1096.044,"endTime":1100.414,"body":"how ordinary people can talk to their"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1100.414,"endTime":1103.894,"body":"children or friends and try to persuade"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1100.414,"endTime":1103.894,"body":"them about the importance of this."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1104.3400000000001,"endTime":1107.67,"body":"And I think what it comes down to in"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1104.3400000000001,"endTime":1107.67,"body":"my view is, is how to be able to talk"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1107.67,"endTime":1111.5,"body":"about the things that people can do"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1107.67,"endTime":1111.5,"body":"and the solutions that are possible."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1111.505,"endTime":1116.01,"body":"The reality is that the technology"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1111.505,"endTime":1116.01,"body":"and the capital to do something"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1116.01,"endTime":1117.78,"body":"about this exists today."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1118.3500000000001,"endTime":1122.67,"body":"It's nice to talk about some of the things"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1118.3500000000001,"endTime":1122.67,"body":"that need further innovation, like carbon"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1122.67,"endTime":1128.805,"body":"removal, but the reality is we have all"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1122.67,"endTime":1128.805,"body":"of the tools, all of the technology, all"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1128.805,"endTime":1134.355,"body":"of the capital, to do what is necessary"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1128.805,"endTime":1134.355,"body":"right now, but to make that net zero"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1134.355,"endTime":1138.795,"body":"future happen, as someone else once said,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1134.355,"endTime":1138.795,"body":"the future's un unevenly distributed."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1139.425,"endTime":1144.825,"body":"And I think that that's, that's part of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1139.425,"endTime":1144.825,"body":"the challenge is how do we, get people"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1145.385,"endTime":1148.845,"body":"continue to be interested so they don't"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1145.385,"endTime":1148.845,"body":"switch off, nor do they have to feel"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1148.845,"endTime":1153.9,"body":"traumatized about the prospects you know"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1148.845,"endTime":1153.9,"body":"of a future that, if you, just take a"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1153.9,"endTime":1156.21,"body":"to logical extreme, might seem grim."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1156.72,"endTime":1161.52,"body":"So the question is how, we maintain our"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1156.72,"endTime":1161.52,"body":"ability to focus on the things we can"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1161.52,"endTime":1163.89,"body":"control, to make those positive changes."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1164.4,"endTime":1167.79,"body":"And it's not just separating, you know,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1164.4,"endTime":1167.79,"body":"your rubbish into different bins for"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1167.795,"endTime":1169.17,"body":"recycling, although that's important."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1169.71,"endTime":1174.63,"body":"It's really about how do we get"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1169.71,"endTime":1174.63,"body":"all of us thinking about systemic"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1174.63,"endTime":1178.0900000000001,"body":"change, in a way that people can"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1174.63,"endTime":1178.0900000000001,"body":"actually do something about it."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1180.15,"endTime":1180.21,"body":"it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1180.21,"endTime":1186.545,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1180.21,"endTime":1186.545,"body":"it's also, systemic change"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1186.545,"endTime":1189.125,"body":"can only happen from the top."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1189.665,"endTime":1194.645,"body":"I mean, we can ask from it down"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1189.665,"endTime":1194.645,"body":"at our level at the bottom, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1195.2150000000001,"endTime":1200.2050000000002,"body":"the changes can only take place"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1195.2150000000001,"endTime":1200.2050000000002,"body":"from the top, and we haven't seen"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1201.38,"endTime":1203.81,"body":"enough systemic changes, I think."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1204.1100000000001,"endTime":1208.3700000000001,"body":"I mean, we're well off where we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1204.1100000000001,"endTime":1208.3700000000001,"body":"should be for our path to 2030."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1209.21,"endTime":1211.91,"body":"And how do we fix that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1212.42,"endTime":1217.91,"body":"How do we require the people who"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1212.42,"endTime":1217.91,"body":"can make those systemic changes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1218.3300000000002,"endTime":1219.8600000000001,"body":"to make those systemic changes?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1219.8600000000001,"endTime":1223.26,"body":"Cause it's six and a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1219.8600000000001,"endTime":1223.26,"body":"half years away, 2030."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1224.75,"endTime":1225.92,"body":"Mm, no."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1225.92,"endTime":1228.47,"body":"It is, and I think that's"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1225.92,"endTime":1228.47,"body":"the why, the urgency."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1228.56,"endTime":1232.5800000000002,"body":"That's what, the main message from"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1228.56,"endTime":1232.5800000000002,"body":"the IPCC report, is saying, this"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1232.585,"endTime":1238.04,"body":"is, the onus is on all of us, but"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1232.585,"endTime":1238.04,"body":"particularly on our political leaders."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1238.52,"endTime":1243.2740000000001,"body":"And as well as, the big market actors that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1238.52,"endTime":1243.2740000000001,"body":"have a role to play in maintaining their"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1243.2740000000001,"endTime":1245.164,"body":"commitments and trying to accelerate them."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1245.7340000000002,"endTime":1249.867,"body":"And I think we see that across, various"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1245.7340000000002,"endTime":1249.867,"body":"different industries where they're"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1249.867,"endTime":1251.277,"body":"saying a lot of the right things."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1251.6470000000002,"endTime":1256.212,"body":"And I think that, you know, what we"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1251.6470000000002,"endTime":1256.212,"body":"also have to take on board is, you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1256.212,"endTime":1259.3020000000001,"body":"know, when Greta Thunberg stands"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1256.212,"endTime":1259.3020000000001,"body":"outside of, of, of COP and says"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1259.3020000000001,"endTime":1263.952,"body":"blah, blah, blah, that's meant to be"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1259.3020000000001,"endTime":1263.952,"body":"taken as, perhaps the words and the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1263.952,"endTime":1265.582,"body":"good intentions just aren't enough."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1266.362,"endTime":1270.3890000000001,"body":"And the question is, I think you know,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1266.362,"endTime":1270.3890000000001,"body":"we've seen enormous progress in the last"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1270.3890000000001,"endTime":1273.689,"body":"year in terms of political leadership"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1270.3890000000001,"endTime":1273.689,"body":"in different parts of the world."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1274.305,"endTime":1278.76,"body":"Part of that has been as a response to,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1274.305,"endTime":1278.76,"body":"unfortunately, the invasion of Ukraine"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1278.88,"endTime":1282.6000000000001,"body":"and some of the cruelties that we've"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1278.88,"endTime":1282.6000000000001,"body":"seen perpetuated on the Ukrainian people."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1283.13,"endTime":1288.38,"body":"What's helped to move the needle is, you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1283.13,"endTime":1288.38,"body":"know, a lot of people worried, okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1288.43,"endTime":1292.28,"body":"will there be a political response that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1288.43,"endTime":1292.28,"body":"says, well, we'll simply have to find a"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1292.28,"endTime":1297.38,"body":"way to accommodate, the aggressor here in"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1292.28,"endTime":1297.38,"body":"order to be able to maintain access, to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1297.38,"endTime":1299.5,"body":"affordable, reliable sources of energy."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1300.26,"endTime":1300.81,"body":"Instead."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1300.8300000000002,"endTime":1304.25,"body":"And when you look at the International"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1300.8300000000002,"endTime":1304.25,"body":"Energy Agency's reports on this"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1304.73,"endTime":1308.007,"body":"back in the autumn, things that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1304.73,"endTime":1308.007,"body":"have come out since, is that we've"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1308.007,"endTime":1313.137,"body":"seen incredible movement faster"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1308.007,"endTime":1313.137,"body":"than people thought possible when it"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1313.137,"endTime":1314.757,"body":"comes to the adoption of renewables."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1315.4170000000001,"endTime":1318.6970000000001,"body":"And then when it comes to, increasing"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1315.4170000000001,"endTime":1318.6970000000001,"body":"capacity to build more of them."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1319.4470000000001,"endTime":1322.597,"body":"You then saw in the United States"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1319.4470000000001,"endTime":1322.597,"body":"the passage of the Inflation"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1322.602,"endTime":1325.957,"body":"Reduction Act in August, which"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1322.602,"endTime":1325.957,"body":"came like a bolt from the blue."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1326.587,"endTime":1331.252,"body":"uh, very few people thought that was gonna"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1326.587,"endTime":1331.252,"body":"pass, and, and suddenly there's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1331.252,"endTime":1335.992,"body":"370 billion dollars that's going in as"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1331.252,"endTime":1335.992,"body":"incentives to accelerate the transition."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1336.5320000000002,"endTime":1339.202,"body":"Then the European Union feels it has"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1336.5320000000002,"endTime":1339.202,"body":"to counter, which is their right to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1339.207,"endTime":1344.267,"body":"do, and they put, an almost similar"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1339.207,"endTime":1344.267,"body":"quantum of incentives on the table in"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1344.267,"endTime":1348.467,"body":"terms of trying to make sure that a,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1344.267,"endTime":1348.467,"body":"they're not being out incentivized by"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1348.467,"endTime":1353.357,"body":"the United States to pull these kind"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1348.467,"endTime":1353.357,"body":"of industries of the future there, but,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1353.357,"endTime":1358.18,"body":"also to accelerate, the movement that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1353.357,"endTime":1358.18,"body":"was already beginning, and gathering pace"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1358.18,"endTime":1360.16,"body":"because of what had happened in Ukraine."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1360.79,"endTime":1364.5700000000002,"body":"And so you're seeing that, you're"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1360.79,"endTime":1364.5700000000002,"body":"seeing what's happening in China,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1364.5700000000002,"endTime":1369.6100000000001,"body":"frankly, which has been a leader not"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1364.5700000000002,"endTime":1369.6100000000001,"body":"just in providing and sourcing a lot"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1369.615,"endTime":1373.8700000000001,"body":"of these vital equipment and minerals"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1369.615,"endTime":1373.8700000000001,"body":"that enable these technologies."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1374.3200000000002,"endTime":1378.25,"body":"but going further, things like long"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1374.3200000000002,"endTime":1378.25,"body":"duration energy storage, where they've"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1378.25,"endTime":1382.345,"body":"taken things like compressed air"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1378.25,"endTime":1382.345,"body":"technology and, found ways to make it"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1382.825,"endTime":1387.295,"body":"more efficient, closer to pumped hydro,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1382.825,"endTime":1387.295,"body":"and, took their pilot project and are"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1387.295,"endTime":1388.795,"body":"now doing something even more scaled."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1389.155,"endTime":1394.855,"body":"So I think that you're seeing a lot of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1389.155,"endTime":1394.855,"body":"momentum, a lot of pressure in the system."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1395.4850000000001,"endTime":1399.499,"body":"I think that the, challenge, and I"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1395.4850000000001,"endTime":1399.499,"body":"think this is where everybody certainly"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1399.499,"endTime":1404.659,"body":"listening to this, who votes in whatever"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1399.499,"endTime":1404.659,"body":"country that you're in, is ensuring that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1404.722,"endTime":1407.952,"body":"the political decisions that have been"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1404.722,"endTime":1407.952,"body":"made that are moving things in the right"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1407.952,"endTime":1410.502,"body":"direction are merely a, a first step."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1411.192,"endTime":1414.645,"body":"And that, we now see the, the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1411.192,"endTime":1414.645,"body":"consequences of some of those decisions."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1415.115,"endTime":1419.315,"body":"Some of them being short term, kind of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1415.115,"endTime":1419.315,"body":"disruptions in supply chains on some key"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1419.345,"endTime":1422.105,"body":"parts of the, you know, infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1419.345,"endTime":1422.105,"body":"for minerals of other things."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1422.585,"endTime":1426.815,"body":"But also on the policy side and regulatory"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1422.585,"endTime":1426.815,"body":"side where we have bottlenecks, you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1426.815,"endTime":1430.9750000000001,"body":"know, we have more capacity in renewables"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1426.815,"endTime":1430.9750000000001,"body":"in the United States lined up to come"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1430.9750000000001,"endTime":1435.1100000000001,"body":"online and is currently waiting for"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1430.9750000000001,"endTime":1435.1100000000001,"body":"permission than there is currently"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1435.1100000000001,"endTime":1436.52,"body":"in operation in the United States."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1437.0900000000001,"endTime":1441.5,"body":"We have similar situation in most"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1437.0900000000001,"endTime":1441.5,"body":"developed countries, so part of it"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1441.5,"endTime":1443.42,"body":"gets pretty wonky, pretty quickly."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1443.8400000000001,"endTime":1449.81,"body":"But the reality is find ways to unblock,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1443.8400000000001,"endTime":1449.81,"body":"find ways to cut the red tape, find"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1449.81,"endTime":1452.55,"body":"ways to be able to move this forward"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1449.81,"endTime":1452.55,"body":"in the time that we need because it"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1452.5700000000002,"endTime":1454.66,"body":"is possible, but we need to act now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1455.3,"endTime":1455.47,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1456.305,"endTime":1461.169,"body":"And then you have things like, the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1456.305,"endTime":1461.169,"body":"Biden administration permitting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1461.409,"endTime":1463.509,"body":"new oil and gas fields in Alaska."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1464.229,"endTime":1464.529,"body":"Just"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1464.679,"endTime":1464.949,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1466.179,"endTime":1466.779,"body":"You know, it's,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1467.169,"endTime":1469.3890000000001,"body":"I think it one"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1467.169,"endTime":1469.3890000000001,"body":"step forward, three steps"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1469.3890000000001,"endTime":1469.539,"body":"back."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1469.544,"endTime":1471.069,"body":"The two step . Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1471.1290000000001,"endTime":1475.339,"body":"Or indeed the, the 168 coal fired power"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1471.1290000000001,"endTime":1475.339,"body":"plants that are being considered in China."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1475.759,"endTime":1481.239,"body":"So, there is absolutely both sides"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1475.759,"endTime":1481.239,"body":"of that equation, and I think that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1481.239,"endTime":1485.4750000000001,"body":"it's up to constituents, however they"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1481.239,"endTime":1485.4750000000001,"body":"are able to express their influence,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1485.895,"endTime":1487.665,"body":"and that's not just ordinary folks."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1488.115,"endTime":1492.405,"body":"The faster that the energy system"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1488.115,"endTime":1492.405,"body":"decarbonizes, the less demand for"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1492.405,"endTime":1496.385,"body":"some of these things there are for"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1492.405,"endTime":1496.385,"body":"lower carbon alternatives, to make"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1496.385,"endTime":1499.5990000000002,"body":"sure that they aren't displacing,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1496.385,"endTime":1499.5990000000002,"body":"these things that could come online."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1500.159,"endTime":1502.829,"body":"Again, I'm not gonna speak about"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1500.159,"endTime":1502.829,"body":"the particulars of the Willow"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1503.249,"endTime":1505.559,"body":"kind of project in, in Alaska."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1505.559,"endTime":1506.479,"body":"I don't know enough about it."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1506.819,"endTime":1509.255,"body":"But I think that, obviously"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1506.819,"endTime":1509.255,"body":"lots of people did look at that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1509.255,"endTime":1512.045,"body":"and went, ouch, that's bad."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1512.375,"endTime":1517.385,"body":"and I think that the question is making"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1512.375,"endTime":1517.385,"body":"sure that when we're looking at how to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1517.385,"endTime":1520.835,"body":"make sure we're unblocking the things"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1517.385,"endTime":1520.835,"body":"that we do want, that the pressure"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1520.8400000000001,"endTime":1524.405,"body":"is there to ensure that some of these"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1520.8400000000001,"endTime":1524.405,"body":"regulatory bottlenecks get solved."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1525.65,"endTime":1525.89,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1526.16,"endTime":1526.97,"body":"Yep, yep, yep."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1527.45,"endTime":1532.46,"body":"You referenced that famous William Gibson"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1527.45,"endTime":1532.46,"body":"quote about the future being already here,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1532.46,"endTime":1537.47,"body":"but not being evenly distributed, that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1532.46,"endTime":1537.47,"body":"is a huge issue too, though, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1537.47,"endTime":1539.66,"body":"In, in many aspects."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1539.66,"endTime":1543.487,"body":"I mean, we, you and I live"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1539.66,"endTime":1543.487,"body":"in the developed world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1543.894,"endTime":1546.894,"body":"The countries we live in and come"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1543.894,"endTime":1546.894,"body":"from, we're, we're both immigrants."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1547.164,"endTime":1551.5140000000001,"body":"The countries we've or originated in and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1547.164,"endTime":1551.5140000000001,"body":"live in are, are both responsible for a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1551.519,"endTime":1556.06,"body":"huge number of emissions, historically."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1556.55,"endTime":1560.795,"body":"Whereas as you referenced the, a lot"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1556.55,"endTime":1560.795,"body":"of the developing countries are only"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1560.795,"endTime":1566.525,"body":"starting on their development pathway,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1560.795,"endTime":1566.525,"body":"have very low emissions to date, and yet"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1566.525,"endTime":1569.105,"body":"can we say to them, whoa, hang on a sec."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1569.435,"endTime":1572.525,"body":"Or how do we, how do"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1569.435,"endTime":1572.525,"body":"we square that circle?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1572.525,"endTime":1576.005,"body":"I mean, you've, you've got the whole"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1572.525,"endTime":1576.005,"body":"thing about, uh, giving compensation"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1576.005,"endTime":1577.2050000000002,"body":"to these countries as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1577.21,"endTime":1580.775,"body":"So there's a lot to be"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1577.21,"endTime":1580.775,"body":"figured out yet, isn't there?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1582.175,"endTime":1584.045,"body":"I, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1582.175,"endTime":1584.045,"body":"one of the things that people will be"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1584.045,"endTime":1588.545,"body":"watching, you know, at the next cop, the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1584.045,"endTime":1588.545,"body":"Cop 28 that'll be taking place in Dubai."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1588.545,"endTime":1588.785,"body":"This."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1589.835,"endTime":1594.709,"body":"Is, you know, it'll be a, a stock take,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1589.835,"endTime":1594.709,"body":"the first, in a few years and, and since"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1594.709,"endTime":1598.959,"body":"the Paris Agreement to be able to say,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1594.709,"endTime":1598.959,"body":"what are individual countries doing?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1599.019,"endTime":1600.729,"body":"How are they moving towards these targets?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1601.155,"endTime":1605.535,"body":"There will be a lot of conversations"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1601.155,"endTime":1605.535,"body":"at the fringes of that, where industry"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1605.54,"endTime":1610.855,"body":"talking about how its role needs to change"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1605.54,"endTime":1610.855,"body":"or how things, will shake out from that."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1611.439,"endTime":1616.059,"body":"So, I think that, we saw on COP 27"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1611.439,"endTime":1616.059,"body":"at Sharam Al Sheikh, there was a lot"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1616.064,"endTime":1619.419,"body":"of discussion around loss and damage,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1616.064,"endTime":1619.419,"body":"the responsibility of those people,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1619.509,"endTime":1623.7350000000001,"body":"countries that did do a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1619.509,"endTime":1623.7350000000001,"body":"historical emissions, to those in"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1623.7350000000001,"endTime":1628.885,"body":"particular countries, low long islands,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1623.7350000000001,"endTime":1628.885,"body":"you know, low lying parts of the coast."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1629.315,"endTime":1632.4950000000001,"body":"Where there's high concentrations of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1629.315,"endTime":1632.4950000000001,"body":"people who might, will be of lower"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1632.4950000000001,"endTime":1636.9650000000001,"body":"incomes, what is to be done to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1632.4950000000001,"endTime":1636.9650000000001,"body":"either assist in their and the adaptation,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1637.415,"endTime":1641.135,"body":"necessary in order to be able to cope with"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1637.415,"endTime":1641.135,"body":"some of the things that'll come from that."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1641.2250000000001,"endTime":1645.935,"body":"I think that seeing those voices raised"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1641.2250000000001,"endTime":1645.935,"body":"and be given more credence, both at Cop,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1646.145,"endTime":1649.26,"body":"and by the media will be important to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1646.145,"endTime":1649.26,"body":"make sure that their voices are heard."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1649.8300000000002,"endTime":1654.267,"body":"I think that as well, the technology"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1649.8300000000002,"endTime":1654.267,"body":"transfer, that's necessary in order"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1654.267,"endTime":1661.172,"body":"to make sure that these countries have"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1654.267,"endTime":1661.172,"body":"the ability not just to, be takers of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1661.172,"endTime":1664.442,"body":"some of these technologies, but to be"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1661.172,"endTime":1664.442,"body":"able to have their own stake in helping"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1664.4470000000001,"endTime":1668.432,"body":"to, you know, both deploy and, and"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1664.4470000000001,"endTime":1668.432,"body":"manufacture them potentially in future."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1669.0320000000002,"endTime":1672.762,"body":"Slightly controversially, you may be"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1669.0320000000002,"endTime":1672.762,"body":"aware that the, you know, Indonesia"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1672.762,"endTime":1677.082,"body":"had banned exports of nickel in one"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1672.762,"endTime":1677.082,"body":"of the key strategic metals, that's"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1677.082,"endTime":1678.2820000000002,"body":"part of the energy transition."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1678.642,"endTime":1678.7920000000001,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1679.0320000000002,"endTime":1680.902,"body":", um, in order to be able to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1679.0320000000002,"endTime":1680.902,"body":"foster a battery manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1681.6190000000001,"endTime":1683.3790000000001,"body":"industry in their country."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1683.919,"endTime":1685.539,"body":"It's hard to know what"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1683.919,"endTime":1685.539,"body":"to think about that."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1686.229,"endTime":1691.5720000000001,"body":"But I think it's a manifestation of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1686.229,"endTime":1691.5720000000001,"body":"that, the so-called global South isn't"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1691.692,"endTime":1697.672,"body":"necessarily going to be, willing to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1691.692,"endTime":1697.672,"body":"sit idly by and simply be a provider of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1697.852,"endTime":1699.502,"body":"raw materials to the rest of the world."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1699.922,"endTime":1702.5720000000001,"body":"And I think that's why, the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1699.922,"endTime":1702.5720000000001,"body":"conversations are so important."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1703.442,"endTime":1703.722,"body":"Alright."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1703.972,"endTime":1704.212,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1705.3220000000001,"endTime":1711.2920000000001,"body":"And what role do you see technology"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1705.3220000000001,"endTime":1711.2920000000001,"body":"and innovation playing in this?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1711.2920000000001,"endTime":1714.472,"body":"I mean, you said already"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1711.2920000000001,"endTime":1714.472,"body":"we have the solutions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1714.472,"endTime":1718.7920000000001,"body":"I mean, we have extremely good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1714.472,"endTime":1718.7920000000001,"body":"wind power and solar power."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1718.797,"endTime":1720.592,"body":"The prices are coming down all the time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1720.712,"endTime":1723.922,"body":"A lot of that is through"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1720.712,"endTime":1723.922,"body":"technological advances and the,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1723.922,"endTime":1725.932,"body":"the, the learning curve as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1725.932,"endTime":1729.112,"body":"The experience curve as, as people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1725.932,"endTime":1729.112,"body":"get better and as it scales."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1729.412,"endTime":1730.972,"body":"I mean, there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1729.412,"endTime":1730.972,"body":"a number of factors there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1732.0220000000002,"endTime":1734.5720000000001,"body":"What part does technology"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1732.0220000000002,"endTime":1734.5720000000001,"body":"and innovation play in this?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1735.512,"endTime":1739.172,"body":"I think that while it's,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1735.512,"endTime":1739.172,"body":"it doesn't displace political leadership"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1739.352,"endTime":1743.3020000000001,"body":"and it doesn't displace, the recognition,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1739.352,"endTime":1743.3020000000001,"body":"which I think we're at a greater"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1743.307,"endTime":1747.0220000000002,"body":"point than we ever have been before"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1743.307,"endTime":1747.0220000000002,"body":"about the need to address the problem."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1747.622,"endTime":1751.909,"body":"I think that what technology"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1747.622,"endTime":1751.909,"body":"offers us, is the ability to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1751.909,"endTime":1753.6490000000001,"body":"scale some of these solutions."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1754.009,"endTime":1757.652,"body":"I think that, one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1754.009,"endTime":1757.652,"body":"we've noted over the last few years"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1758.0620000000001,"endTime":1761.242,"body":"is that now it's table stakes, for"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1758.0620000000001,"endTime":1761.242,"body":"people to talk about sustainability."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1761.702,"endTime":1763.402,"body":"I looked at 50 companies last week."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1763.492,"endTime":1769.622,"body":"Everyone from a Middle Eastern airline"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1763.492,"endTime":1769.622,"body":"to a maker of coffee pods to, someone"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1769.622,"endTime":1773.732,"body":"who makes various types of, consumer"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1769.622,"endTime":1773.732,"body":"packaged goods, and they all use"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1773.732,"endTime":1777.5720000000001,"body":"almost exactly the same language"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1773.732,"endTime":1777.5720000000001,"body":"of sustainability is in our dna."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1778.7720000000002,"endTime":1783.212,"body":"So I think for me, and one of the reasons"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1778.7720000000002,"endTime":1783.212,"body":"that I, I've just made the decision to,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1783.3020000000001,"endTime":1787.742,"body":"work with climate tech companies, or"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1783.3020000000001,"endTime":1787.742,"body":"whether they be big or small, is that I,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1787.8020000000001,"endTime":1791.432,"body":"I genuinely believe that, you know, one"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1787.8020000000001,"endTime":1791.432,"body":"of the ways that we're gonna be able to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1791.432,"endTime":1796.712,"body":"move the needle is by finding people who"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1791.432,"endTime":1796.712,"body":"are smart enough to deploy technology"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1796.712,"endTime":1801.842,"body":"and capital to actually make things more"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1796.712,"endTime":1801.842,"body":"efficient, to reduce emissions faster, to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1801.842,"endTime":1806.882,"body":"be able to lower the overall energy burden"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1801.842,"endTime":1806.882,"body":"and be able to look at how we maintain"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1806.882,"endTime":1812.18,"body":"stay within our carbon budget, while also,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1806.882,"endTime":1812.18,"body":"finding ways that are healthier for people"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1812.18,"endTime":1813.6200000000001,"body":"to, you know, ways for people to live."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1814.137,"endTime":1818.577,"body":"And I think that's why, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1814.137,"endTime":1818.577,"body":"such a fascinating, amazing sector,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1818.997,"endTime":1821.077,"body":"to be be able to support and work in."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1821.527,"endTime":1826.1770000000001,"body":"Because I think that when you, you see,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1821.527,"endTime":1826.1770000000001,"body":"you know, we talked earlier about, how"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1826.182,"endTime":1830.367,"body":"the coverage cut through and how, people"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1826.182,"endTime":1830.367,"body":"are thinking about the IPCC report."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1830.997,"endTime":1834.787,"body":"I think one of the other things"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1830.997,"endTime":1834.787,"body":"that's hopeful for me about that is"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1835.317,"endTime":1841.252,"body":"when we see employers, when we see"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1835.317,"endTime":1841.252,"body":"people who have, for voluntary or"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1841.2720000000002,"endTime":1845.5320000000002,"body":"otherwise, leaving some of the big"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1841.2720000000002,"endTime":1845.5320000000002,"body":"tech giants, where are they going?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1846.3120000000001,"endTime":1850.212,"body":"A lot of them are looking for the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1846.3120000000001,"endTime":1850.212,"body":"idea that they could move to a place"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1850.217,"endTime":1853.932,"body":"to work with people where there's"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1850.217,"endTime":1853.932,"body":"purpose and there is not gonna be"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1853.932,"endTime":1857.7720000000002,"body":"any better purpose than to be able"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1853.932,"endTime":1857.7720000000002,"body":"to look your kids in the eye 20 years"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1857.7720000000002,"endTime":1859.0320000000002,"body":"from now and say, this is what I did."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1859.602,"endTime":1859.692,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1859.9550000000002,"endTime":1861.9950000000001,"body":"Not everyone's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1859.9550000000002,"endTime":1861.9950000000001,"body":"able to go work for an ngo."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1861.9950000000001,"endTime":1865.6100000000001,"body":"Not everyone's gonna be able to go and"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1861.9950000000001,"endTime":1865.6100000000001,"body":"be on the front lines holding a placard."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1866.06,"endTime":1869.9,"body":"But a lot of people with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1866.06,"endTime":1869.9,"body":"talent can put that talent to good use."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1870.56,"endTime":1874.827,"body":"And I see, and talk to people anecdotally"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1870.56,"endTime":1874.827,"body":"where they're moving in all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1874.827,"endTime":1879.507,"body":"very surprising parts of old energy,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1874.827,"endTime":1879.507,"body":"other parts of industry, and seeking"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1879.507,"endTime":1883.257,"body":"opportunities to, you know, put their"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1879.507,"endTime":1883.257,"body":"professional skills and talents to use."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1883.797,"endTime":1888.89,"body":"I was talking to the CTO of a large"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1883.797,"endTime":1888.89,"body":"company the other day, who's, kids three"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1888.89,"endTime":1893.595,"body":"years ago, couldn't have cared less what"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1888.89,"endTime":1893.595,"body":"he did and would be bored to tears at"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1893.595,"endTime":1897.015,"body":"Christmas dinner, hearing about, you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1893.595,"endTime":1897.015,"body":"know, what he was doing up to at work."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1897.405,"endTime":1900.795,"body":"Now they're coming to him and"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1897.405,"endTime":1900.795,"body":"saying, how can I actually, you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1900.8,"endTime":1902.175,"body":"know, potentially get involved?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1902.18,"endTime":1905.2050000000002,"body":"I'm doing computer science degree,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1902.18,"endTime":1905.2050000000002,"body":"you know, but is there something"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1905.2050000000002,"endTime":1907.909,"body":"I can be doing, in climate"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1905.2050000000002,"endTime":1907.909,"body":"tech or the energy transition."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1908.3590000000002,"endTime":1912.199,"body":"So there's, there's an interest and I"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1908.3590000000002,"endTime":1912.199,"body":"think the people that are gonna help"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1912.259,"endTime":1916.789,"body":"to actually scale that technology now"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1912.259,"endTime":1916.789,"body":"are more interested than ever in trying"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1916.794,"endTime":1918.049,"body":"to put their skills to use to do that."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1918.049,"endTime":1919.1190000000001,"body":"And I think that's very hopeful,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1919.829,"endTime":1920.914,"body":"Indeed, indeed."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1921.0040000000001,"endTime":1924.5140000000001,"body":"And you mentioned Greta Thunberg"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1921.0040000000001,"endTime":1924.5140000000001,"body":"as well and all the amazing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1924.5140000000001,"endTime":1925.834,"body":"things that she has done."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1926.194,"endTime":1933.5040000000001,"body":"I mean, she's had an incredible success,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1926.194,"endTime":1933.5040000000001,"body":"at raising the profile of climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1934.104,"endTime":1935.9940000000001,"body":"and getting that story out there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1937.164,"endTime":1944.4840000000002,"body":"Oh, how likely is it that we will get"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1937.164,"endTime":1944.4840000000002,"body":"political leaders who are as well able to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1944.804,"endTime":1951.324,"body":"frame the narrative around what we need"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1944.804,"endTime":1951.324,"body":"to do to get to where we need to go to?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1953.904,"endTime":1957.174,"body":"Well, I think that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1953.904,"endTime":1957.174,"body":"the smarter members of our political"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1957.174,"endTime":1960.894,"body":"leadership around the world, will"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1957.174,"endTime":1960.894,"body":"have taken a lesson or a few lessons,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1961.037,"endTime":1964.547,"body":"from Greta Thunberg, cuz again,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1961.037,"endTime":1964.547,"body":"she has, as you say, cut through."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1964.757,"endTime":1970.957,"body":"And as somebody who is very familiar with,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1964.757,"endTime":1970.957,"body":"let's say neuro divergence in my own life"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1970.957,"endTime":1974.4370000000001,"body":"and with the lives of people in my family,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1970.957,"endTime":1974.4370000000001,"body":"I can say it's one of the things I, I"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1974.4370000000001,"endTime":1976.674,"body":"find, so tremendously appealing about her."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1976.674,"endTime":1980.394,"body":"One of her mottos is, we ask the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1976.674,"endTime":1980.394,"body":"difficult questions because that's the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1980.394,"endTime":1982.194,"body":"only way you actually get any progress."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1982.664,"endTime":1986.784,"body":"But I think from a, a broader"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1982.664,"endTime":1986.784,"body":"perspective, the only way we make"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1986.784,"endTime":1990.654,"body":"meaning in the world is through stories,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1986.784,"endTime":1990.654,"body":"the way we make sense of things."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1991.404,"endTime":1995.904,"body":"And I think that when we're talking"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1991.404,"endTime":1995.904,"body":"about narrative, when it comes to change"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1995.964,"endTime":1999.939,"body":"and innovation, you know, we used to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1995.964,"endTime":1999.939,"body":"thinking about stories where there's a"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1999.939,"endTime":2004.299,"body":"good guy, there's a bad guy, and there's"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":1999.939,"endTime":2004.299,"body":"a victim, and we have to help the victim."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2005.069,"endTime":2009.299,"body":"Problem is that all of us at"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2005.069,"endTime":2009.299,"body":"any point are either the victim,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2009.299,"endTime":2010.409,"body":"the villain, or the good guy."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2011.279,"endTime":2015.539,"body":"And so thinking about narrative in a"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2011.279,"endTime":2015.539,"body":"slightly different way, where you're"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2015.539,"endTime":2020.625,"body":"sketching out, this vision of the future"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2015.539,"endTime":2020.625,"body":"where it's a desirable one, where we"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2020.625,"endTime":2022.4850000000001,"body":"all have a stake and can take part."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2023.355,"endTime":2027.4950000000001,"body":"To empathise within the people we're"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2023.355,"endTime":2027.4950000000001,"body":"trying to influence part of that"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2027.4950000000001,"endTime":2031.155,"body":"audience to actually think, what"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2027.4950000000001,"endTime":2031.155,"body":"are the dilemmas that they face?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2031.785,"endTime":2034.665,"body":"How can I actually help"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2031.785,"endTime":2034.665,"body":"them through what I'm doing?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2034.755,"endTime":2035.895,"body":"Work through some of that."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2036.615,"endTime":2041.265,"body":"And then ultimately, you know, if you're"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2036.615,"endTime":2041.265,"body":"particularly a a company, how what you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2041.27,"endTime":2047.505,"body":"are doing is gonna empower and give"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2041.27,"endTime":2047.505,"body":"agency to that audience, to those people"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2047.805,"endTime":2051.645,"body":"so they can see a way forward working"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2047.805,"endTime":2051.645,"body":"together to get to that better future."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2052.335,"endTime":2057.7799999999997,"body":"And I think that leaders could be doing a"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2052.335,"endTime":2057.7799999999997,"body":"lot more to help frame those narratives."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2057.785,"endTime":2061.5299999999997,"body":"And I include people from the IPCC and"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2057.785,"endTime":2061.5299999999997,"body":"the, and the UN Secretary General in that."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2062.07,"endTime":2063.96,"body":"It's, it's great to"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2062.07,"endTime":2063.96,"body":"have a great sound bite."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2064.68,"endTime":2066.0,"body":"It's great to be able to paint a villain."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2066.57,"endTime":2070.47,"body":"But I think to the point about, the"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2066.57,"endTime":2070.47,"body":"compromise process that is, integral"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2070.47,"endTime":2075.18,"body":"to the IPCC and the, the greater UN"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2070.47,"endTime":2075.18,"body":"system, we have to find ways of thinking"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2075.18,"endTime":2080.2000000000003,"body":"about stories where it's not just about"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2075.18,"endTime":2080.2000000000003,"body":"who's the baddie and who's the victim."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2080.925,"endTime":2085.515,"body":"It's about how do we all do this in a"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2080.925,"endTime":2085.515,"body":"way together, which isn't just Saccharin."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2085.985,"endTime":2087.289,"body":"This isn't just, talk."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2087.649,"endTime":2087.739,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2087.9790000000003,"endTime":2090.109,"body":". Um, but actually, actually"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2087.9790000000003,"endTime":2090.109,"body":"can make a difference."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2091.2490000000003,"endTime":2091.5190000000002,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2091.579,"endTime":2091.969,"body":"Super."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2092.719,"endTime":2095.509,"body":"We're coming towards the end"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2092.719,"endTime":2095.509,"body":"of the podcast now, Richard."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2095.509,"endTime":2100.909,"body":"Is there any question that I haven't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2095.509,"endTime":2100.909,"body":"asked that you wish I had or any aspect of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2100.909,"endTime":2104.059,"body":"this we haven't touched on that you think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2100.909,"endTime":2104.059,"body":"it's important for people to think about?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2106.369,"endTime":2107.509,"body":"I suppose the question."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2108.679,"endTime":2117.199,"body":"that I have for you, Tom , is, uh, what do"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2108.679,"endTime":2117.199,"body":"you think people should be reading, paying"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2117.199,"endTime":2118.9990000000003,"body":"more attention to than they aren't today?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2121.279,"endTime":2124.459,"body":"Reading, paying more"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2121.279,"endTime":2124.459,"body":"attention to, um, well, climate news,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2124.464,"endTime":2131.329,"body":"I would say, because, it's hard, it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2124.464,"endTime":2131.329,"body":"hard to find, frankly, and it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2131.329,"endTime":2138.679,"body":"not well reported on, so, if there"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2131.329,"endTime":2138.679,"body":"is a big climate story, it's very"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2138.679,"endTime":2140.959,"body":"rarely on page one of a newspaper."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2140.959,"endTime":2146.389,"body":"It's very rarely the lead story in a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2140.959,"endTime":2146.389,"body":"TV broadcast unless it happens to be,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2146.805,"endTime":2152.3250000000003,"body":"some massive storm has just hit the east"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2146.805,"endTime":2152.3250000000003,"body":"coast of the US or something like that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2152.745,"endTime":2157.965,"body":"And even then, it's rarely uh,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2152.745,"endTime":2157.965,"body":"reported that this is a climate issue."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2157.965,"endTime":2160.875,"body":"It's a weather issue, and there's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2157.965,"endTime":2160.875,"body":"a big difference between the two."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2161.205,"endTime":2161.945,"body":"So I think."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2163.03,"endTime":2167.76,"body":"People should be paying more"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2163.03,"endTime":2167.76,"body":"attention to climate stories."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2167.76,"endTime":2169.26,"body":"Now, we're all busy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2170.2200000000003,"endTime":2171.0,"body":"We're all busy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2171.36,"endTime":2175.92,"body":"And then the, the other side of it is a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2171.36,"endTime":2175.92,"body":"lot of the climate news that's out there"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2176.58,"endTime":2181.59,"body":"is depressing, which I think is a big"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2176.58,"endTime":2181.59,"body":"part of why it doesn't make the headlines"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2181.5950000000003,"endTime":2187.425,"body":"very often because I think news editors"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2181.5950000000003,"endTime":2187.425,"body":"are probably concerned they'll turn off"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2187.425,"endTime":2190.245,"body":"their readership, which is unfortunate."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2190.8450000000003,"endTime":2194.5950000000003,"body":"And one of the reasons I started this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2190.8450000000003,"endTime":2194.5950000000003,"body":"podcast was because I wanted to highlight"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2194.985,"endTime":2197.625,"body":"good news stories outta climate as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2197.63,"endTime":2203.445,"body":"Because if you are only ever hearing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2197.63,"endTime":2203.445,"body":"bad news stories on climate, you'll"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2203.445,"endTime":2207.209,"body":"fall into despair and throw your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2203.445,"endTime":2207.209,"body":"hands up in the air and, just curl"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2207.209,"endTime":2209.2490000000003,"body":"up in a ball and not do anything."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2209.549,"endTime":2213.659,"body":"Whereas, you know, I've published over"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2209.549,"endTime":2213.659,"body":"110 episodes of this podcast now, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2213.659,"endTime":2220.949,"body":"they're all good news stories and, that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2213.659,"endTime":2220.949,"body":"should help educate and inspire at least"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2220.949,"endTime":2223.049,"body":"some people to take action is my hope."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2223.319,"endTime":2226.559,"body":"And if, if for no other"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2223.319,"endTime":2226.559,"body":"reason, then it stops me."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2227.1440000000002,"endTime":2229.724,"body":"You know, hearing these good news"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2227.1440000000002,"endTime":2229.724,"body":"stories every week, it stops me"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2229.754,"endTime":2233.6240000000003,"body":"collapsing into a ball, sobbing on the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2229.754,"endTime":2233.6240000000003,"body":"floor, throwing my hands up in despair."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2234.534,"endTime":2236.964,"body":"Well, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2234.534,"endTime":2236.964,"body":"I can do better than that, but I think"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2236.964,"endTime":2240.204,"body":"that what, what you're doing when I think"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2236.964,"endTime":2240.204,"body":"that that, you know, telling stories like"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2240.204,"endTime":2243.6240000000003,"body":"this, getting them out is, is exactly"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2240.204,"endTime":2243.6240000000003,"body":"for the reasons you've said so important."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2243.6240000000003,"endTime":2246.564,"body":"So I'm really grateful you"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2243.6240000000003,"endTime":2246.564,"body":"were able to bring me on and"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2246.564,"endTime":2247.584,"body":"have this conversation today."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2248.319,"endTime":2249.639,"body":"Oh, thank you, Richard."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2249.639,"endTime":2253.4790000000003,"body":"If people would like to know more"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2249.639,"endTime":2253.4790000000003,"body":"about yourself or any of the topics"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2253.4790000000003,"endTime":2256.539,"body":"we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2253.4790000000003,"endTime":2256.539,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2258.129,"endTime":2260.649,"body":"Best place to find me"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2258.129,"endTime":2260.649,"body":"is on LinkedIn, and you can subscribe"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2260.654,"endTime":2262.359,"body":"to my Week in Climate Tech newsletter."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2262.7490000000003,"endTime":2266.799,"body":"We, usually try to give it a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2262.7490000000003,"endTime":2266.799,"body":"of a light touch, little bit of humor"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2266.799,"endTime":2268.689,"body":"to try to leaven things just slightly."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2269.109,"endTime":2273.109,"body":"If we can face the future with a bit"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2269.109,"endTime":2273.109,"body":"of humor and a bit of humility that I"},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2273.109,"endTime":2274.5190000000002,"body":"think we're, we've got a better shot."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2275.299,"endTime":2275.629,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2275.689,"endTime":2275.989,"body":"Lovely."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2276.199,"endTime":2279.139,"body":"I'll put a link to the newsletter and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2276.199,"endTime":2279.139,"body":"your LinkedIn profile in the show notes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2279.139,"endTime":2280.639,"body":"so everyone can have access to it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2280.669,"endTime":2280.969,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2281.359,"endTime":2283.399,"body":"Richard, thanks a million for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2281.359,"endTime":2283.399,"body":"coming on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Richard Delevan","startTime":2284.569,"endTime":2285.109,"body":"Thank you, Tom."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2286.654,"endTime":2288.544,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2286.654,"endTime":2288.544,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2289.234,"endTime":2290.3740000000003,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2291.214,"endTime":2294.1240000000003,"body":"If you'd like to know more about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2291.214,"endTime":2294.1240000000003,"body":"the Climate Confident podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2294.304,"endTime":2300.034,"body":"feel free to drop me an email"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2294.304,"endTime":2300.034,"body":"to Tom raftery@outlook.com."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2300.6040000000003,"endTime":2303.034,"body":"Or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2303.598,"endTime":2307.318,"body":"If you like the show, please, don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2303.598,"endTime":2307.318,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2307.318,"endTime":2311.848,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2307.318,"endTime":2311.848,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2312.478,"endTime":2315.418,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2312.478,"endTime":2315.418,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2315.628,"endTime":2318.328,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2315.628,"endTime":2318.328,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2319.228,"endTime":2321.268,"body":"Thanks, catch you all next time."}]}