{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":3.596,"endTime":7.746,"body":"if we did nature based"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":3.596,"endTime":7.746,"body":"solutions globally, so that's everyone"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":7.756,"endTime":13.286,"body":"has to play ball, but we could get"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":7.756,"endTime":13.286,"body":"about 10 gigatons worth of CO2 savings."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":13.546,"endTime":17.596,"body":"That's the emissions of the US, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":13.546,"endTime":17.596,"body":"EU and Japan combined from doing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":17.596,"endTime":19.266,"body":"nature based solutions at scale."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":19.836,"endTime":23.916,"body":"So I think we've spent a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":19.836,"endTime":23.916,"body":"kind of looking at climate and mechanical"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":23.916,"endTime":27.716,"body":"tools, but actually mother nature"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":23.916,"endTime":27.716,"body":"has got a pretty big power herself"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":27.832,"endTime":29.932,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":27.832,"endTime":29.932,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":29.932,"endTime":31.462,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.762,"endTime":33.892,"body":"This is the Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.132,"endTime":37.762,"body":"The number one podcast, showcasing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.132,"endTime":37.762,"body":"best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":37.762,"endTime":39.442,"body":"emission, reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":39.832,"endTime":41.722,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":41.931,"endTime":45.711,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":41.931,"endTime":45.711,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.831,"endTime":48.231,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.767,"endTime":53.367,"body":"Hi everyone and welcome to episode"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.767,"endTime":53.367,"body":"136 of the Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.827,"endTime":57.767,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery and before we kick"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.827,"endTime":57.767,"body":"off today's show I want to take a quick"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.767,"endTime":62.347,"body":"moment to express my gratitude to all"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.767,"endTime":62.347,"body":"of this podcast's amazing supporters."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":62.987,"endTime":67.227,"body":"Your support has been instrumental in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":62.987,"endTime":67.227,"body":"keeping the podcast going and I am really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":67.227,"endTime":69.167,"body":"grateful for each and every one of you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":70.057,"endTime":73.797,"body":"If you're not already a supporter I'd"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":70.057,"endTime":73.797,"body":"like to encourage you to consider joining"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.797,"endTime":77.447,"body":"our community of like minded individuals"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.797,"endTime":77.447,"body":"who are passionate about climate."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":78.242,"endTime":81.552,"body":"Supporting the podcast is easy and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":78.242,"endTime":81.552,"body":"affordable with options starting just as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":81.562,"endTime":83.902,"body":"low as three euros or dollars per month."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":84.582,"endTime":87.532,"body":"That's less than the cost of a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":84.582,"endTime":87.532,"body":"cup of coffee and your support"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":87.542,"endTime":91.032,"body":"will make a huge difference in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":87.542,"endTime":91.032,"body":"keeping this show going strong."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":91.722,"endTime":95.682,"body":"To become a supporter simply click on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":91.722,"endTime":95.682,"body":"the support link in the show notes of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":95.682,"endTime":99.392,"body":"this or any episode or visit tinyurl."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":99.422,"endTime":101.542,"body":"com slash climatepod."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.457,"endTime":105.877,"body":"Now, without further ado,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.457,"endTime":105.877,"body":"with me on the show today, I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":105.887,"endTime":107.327,"body":"have my special guest, Peter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":107.707,"endTime":109.537,"body":"Peter, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":109.537,"endTime":111.007,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":111.587,"endTime":112.097,"body":"Hi, Tom."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":112.107,"endTime":113.437,"body":"Yeah, look, great to be here."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":113.997,"endTime":115.454,"body":"Yeah, so my name is Peter Bachmann."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":115.534,"endTime":119.134,"body":"I'm the managing director of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":115.534,"endTime":119.134,"body":"Sustainable Infrastructure division at"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":119.134,"endTime":122.304,"body":"Gresham House, which is a £8 billion"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":119.134,"endTime":122.304,"body":"pound specialist asset manager."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.377,"endTime":123.707,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.707,"endTime":126.617,"body":"Tell us a little bit more about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.707,"endTime":126.617,"body":"Gresham House because I'm not sure a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":126.617,"endTime":130.097,"body":"lot of people, well, possibly a lot"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":126.617,"endTime":130.097,"body":"of people listening to the podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":130.097,"endTime":131.677,"body":"may not have heard of Gresham House."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":131.697,"endTime":132.457,"body":"So what is that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":132.457,"endTime":133.847,"body":"And then tell us a little"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":132.457,"endTime":133.847,"body":"bit about the fund."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":134.974,"endTime":135.344,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":135.354,"endTime":138.914,"body":"So look, Gresham House is listed"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":135.354,"endTime":138.914,"body":"on the London Stock Exchange."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":139.114,"endTime":143.314,"body":"As I mentioned, it has about eight billion"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":139.114,"endTime":143.314,"body":"pounds, all money really coagulating"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":143.324,"endTime":145.714,"body":"around the sustainability thematics."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":145.744,"endTime":149.944,"body":"So for example, we've got Europe's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":145.744,"endTime":149.944,"body":"largest forestry platform."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":150.174,"endTime":152.334,"body":"And actually it's about the fifth"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":150.174,"endTime":152.334,"body":"or sixth largest in the world"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":152.374,"endTime":155.574,"body":"with forests all across Australia,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":152.374,"endTime":155.574,"body":"New Zealand, UK and Ireland."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":156.164,"endTime":158.514,"body":"We've got Europe's largest"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":156.164,"endTime":158.514,"body":"battery storage fund."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":158.654,"endTime":163.346,"body":"So it's a fund created to help invest"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":158.654,"endTime":163.346,"body":"in battery energy storage assets,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":163.346,"endTime":166.256,"body":"which helped the grid regulate"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":163.346,"endTime":166.256,"body":"itself because we've got more solar"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":166.256,"endTime":168.976,"body":"and wind, which unfortunately it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":166.256,"endTime":168.976,"body":"not always sunny and always windy."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":169.616,"endTime":174.856,"body":"We've also got UK's second largest venture"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":169.616,"endTime":174.856,"body":"capital trust platform or VCT, which is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":174.946,"endTime":180.386,"body":"a UK specific tax incentive to forward"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":174.946,"endTime":180.386,"body":"investment into early stage companies."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":180.846,"endTime":184.366,"body":"We've also got quite a large division"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":180.846,"endTime":184.366,"body":"in social and affordable housing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":184.536,"endTime":186.736,"body":"So we've got listed in our listed funds."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":187.646,"endTime":191.056,"body":"We've then got about a billion in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":187.646,"endTime":191.056,"body":"public equities, typically targeting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":191.056,"endTime":195.306,"body":"small cap, micro cap stocks, and then"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":191.056,"endTime":195.306,"body":"my division, which is sustainable"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":195.306,"endTime":199.946,"body":"infrastructure division, and we've"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":195.306,"endTime":199.946,"body":"got two flagship funds, BCF1 and BCF2,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":200.006,"endTime":204.986,"body":"and then now five locally focused and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":200.006,"endTime":204.986,"body":"sidecar vehicles to enable investors to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":204.986,"endTime":209.246,"body":"invest specifically into regions or into"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":204.986,"endTime":209.246,"body":"specific assets that we invested to."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":209.736,"endTime":214.056,"body":"And I guess just to summarize the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":209.736,"endTime":214.056,"body":"strategy of BSEF more generally is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":214.486,"endTime":218.846,"body":"we are fundamentally investing into a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":214.486,"endTime":218.846,"body":"sustained blip structure, which to us are"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":219.126,"endTime":223.346,"body":"profitable, real asset based solutions to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":219.126,"endTime":223.346,"body":"the big environmental and social problems."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":223.806,"endTime":226.976,"body":"This is very much a real asset"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":223.806,"endTime":226.976,"body":"based solution to try to tackle"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":226.976,"endTime":230.306,"body":"these problems because there's a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":226.976,"endTime":230.306,"body":"huge amount of environmental and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":230.306,"endTime":233.066,"body":"social problems that we face, which"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":230.306,"endTime":233.066,"body":"you probably talk about a lot, Tom."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":233.606,"endTime":239.506,"body":"But technology can only do so much and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":233.606,"endTime":239.506,"body":"what we are investing in is the real"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":239.506,"endTime":242.916,"body":"asset solutions, the physical products"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":239.506,"endTime":242.916,"body":"and services that you need to actually"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":242.916,"endTime":244.806,"body":"deliver a more sustainable future."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":246.106,"endTime":247.9,"body":"What kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":246.106,"endTime":247.9,"body":"assets are you referring to?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":249.341,"endTime":250.261,"body":"Yeah, good question."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":250.281,"endTime":253.901,"body":"So we cover assets into"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":250.281,"endTime":253.901,"body":"main six main thematics."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":253.951,"endTime":256.151,"body":"The first one is what we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":253.951,"endTime":256.151,"body":"call resource efficiency."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":256.401,"endTime":260.821,"body":"And by that we are looking at saying"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":256.401,"endTime":260.821,"body":"pretty much everything that we make"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":260.831,"endTime":265.461,"body":"these days uses too much land, too"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":260.831,"endTime":265.461,"body":"much water, too much chemicals and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":265.461,"endTime":269.391,"body":"pesticides, essentially overuses"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":265.461,"endTime":269.391,"body":"our finite resources on this planet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":270.011,"endTime":273.351,"body":"And what we're doing is, for example,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":270.011,"endTime":273.351,"body":"we were building, we have built"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":273.351,"endTime":277.056,"body":"now, pardon me, the world's largest"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":273.351,"endTime":277.056,"body":"fully automated vertical farm."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":277.236,"endTime":279.896,"body":"So if you're listeners that don't"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":277.236,"endTime":279.896,"body":"know what a vertical farm is,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":279.896,"endTime":283.256,"body":"that is a building which basically"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":279.896,"endTime":283.256,"body":"has hydroponic watering systems,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":283.256,"endTime":284.726,"body":"so it recirculates the water."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":285.196,"endTime":288.436,"body":"It has LED lights and it has"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":285.196,"endTime":288.436,"body":"controlled environment in there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":288.846,"endTime":292.646,"body":"And what that allows us to do is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":288.846,"endTime":292.646,"body":"effectively create the perfect"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":292.736,"endTime":294.956,"body":"Tuscan hillside summer conditions."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":295.016,"endTime":298.996,"body":"25, 26 degrees, gentle"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":295.016,"endTime":298.996,"body":"breeze, 75 percent humidity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":299.561,"endTime":300.931,"body":"And plants love to grow in that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":300.981,"endTime":305.541,"body":"And what we enables us to do is to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":300.981,"endTime":305.541,"body":"grow, for example, at our second farm"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":305.541,"endTime":309.911,"body":"up in Norfolk, that can grow in four"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":305.541,"endTime":309.911,"body":"acres, what it would take 1000 to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":309.911,"endTime":312.061,"body":"maybe 2000 acres to grow out the field."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":312.291,"endTime":315.441,"body":"So 250 to 500 times more land efficient."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":315.976,"endTime":319.646,"body":"Because of that hydroponic watering"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":315.976,"endTime":319.646,"body":"system we use about 95, 98 percent"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":319.656,"endTime":321.886,"body":"less water than field grown crops."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":322.516,"endTime":324.386,"body":"We use no chemicals and pesticides."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":324.656,"endTime":327.756,"body":"And then the two really big things that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":324.656,"endTime":327.756,"body":"the supermarkets we're working with love,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":328.016,"endTime":330.056,"body":"one is that they've got food security."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":330.286,"endTime":332.896,"body":"And for any of your listeners in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":330.286,"endTime":332.896,"body":"the UK, you'll have seen this,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":332.946,"endTime":335.536,"body":"the shortages of salad leaves,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":332.946,"endTime":335.536,"body":"for example, over the summer."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":336.396,"endTime":338.696,"body":"That is a thing of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":336.396,"endTime":338.696,"body":"past with vertical farming."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":338.846,"endTime":342.746,"body":"And then finally, because of the way"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":338.846,"endTime":342.746,"body":"that we grow and that we harvest, we get"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":342.746,"endTime":345.576,"body":"about 14 to 21 days longer shelf life."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":346.026,"endTime":349.226,"body":"And so that means that avoids"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":346.026,"endTime":349.226,"body":"that disappointing salad bag that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":349.296,"endTime":351.846,"body":"you probably had as well that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":349.296,"endTime":351.846,"body":"goes off after a couple of days."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":352.466,"endTime":356.389,"body":"But more importantly, it really"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":352.466,"endTime":356.389,"body":"tackles food waste for the that's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":356.389,"endTime":358.049,"body":"a big drag on their profit margins."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":358.759,"endTime":362.679,"body":"Less food waste, longer shelf"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":358.759,"endTime":362.679,"body":"life means less packaging."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":362.689,"endTime":365.479,"body":"Less packaging means less"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":362.689,"endTime":365.479,"body":"plastic into the waste streams."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":365.889,"endTime":369.629,"body":"Less plastic in the waste streams"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":365.889,"endTime":369.629,"body":"means less problems with microplastics."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":370.214,"endTime":373.904,"body":"And microplastics is, yeah the really"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":370.214,"endTime":373.904,"body":"big problem that no one's talking"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":373.904,"endTime":375.924,"body":"about is causing infertility problems."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":376.464,"endTime":380.364,"body":"I've seen some research that says"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":376.464,"endTime":380.364,"body":"that we might be entirely infertile"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":380.824,"endTime":382.784,"body":"as a male race by about 2050."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":383.594,"endTime":385.404,"body":"So that's a pretty scary stat."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":385.584,"endTime":389.294,"body":"And yeah, these are the sorts of things"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":385.584,"endTime":389.294,"body":"that we need to sort of back out of and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":389.294,"endTime":394.504,"body":"say, vertical farming we think could be"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":389.294,"endTime":394.504,"body":"a great example of the future of food."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":394.694,"endTime":397.064,"body":"Currently we're growing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":394.694,"endTime":397.064,"body":"leafy greens and yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":397.664,"endTime":400.974,"body":"We're definitely not going to save the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":397.664,"endTime":400.974,"body":"world by salad bags, but where we're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":400.994,"endTime":405.484,"body":"going to next are soft fruits and then"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":400.994,"endTime":405.484,"body":"we've already started to grow wheat."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":405.824,"endTime":409.234,"body":"But ultimately we want to grow soy,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":405.824,"endTime":409.234,"body":"wheat, and rice and then you can have a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":409.234,"endTime":413.744,"body":"carbohydrate and a protein alternative"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":409.234,"endTime":413.744,"body":"plant based proteins and that's really"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":413.744,"endTime":415.074,"body":"then when you can feed the world."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":415.679,"endTime":417.529,"body":"So that's an example"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":415.679,"endTime":417.529,"body":"of resource efficiency."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":417.999,"endTime":420.879,"body":"Other ones that we are focused"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":417.999,"endTime":420.879,"body":"on are things around, for"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":420.879,"endTime":422.249,"body":"example, digital inclusion."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":422.479,"endTime":426.389,"body":"So not everyone realizes how important"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":422.479,"endTime":426.389,"body":"internet is, but obviously we're doing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":426.389,"endTime":429.729,"body":"this via the power of the internet,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":426.389,"endTime":429.729,"body":"and particularly a lot of rural"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":429.729,"endTime":433.269,"body":"economies and rural populations that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":429.729,"endTime":433.269,"body":"have good access to good internet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":433.439,"endTime":437.049,"body":"So we invest into connecting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":433.439,"endTime":437.049,"body":"up those towns and villages"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":437.049,"endTime":438.169,"body":"that have been left behind."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":438.399,"endTime":440.979,"body":"And that has really tangible"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":438.399,"endTime":440.979,"body":"benefit, yeah, for every..."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":441.449,"endTime":444.929,"body":"one pound that we invest, there's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":441.449,"endTime":444.929,"body":"about 15 pounds back out in terms of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":444.959,"endTime":447.019,"body":"economic, social and environmental value."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":447.259,"endTime":449.349,"body":"So, digital inclusion is quite powerful."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":450.309,"endTime":453.389,"body":"Other interesting things, I'll just talk"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":450.309,"endTime":453.389,"body":"about two more examples of what we do."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":453.399,"endTime":457.369,"body":"One is, we have a business up in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":453.399,"endTime":457.369,"body":"Middlesbrough called Waste Not where it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":457.419,"endTime":460.779,"body":"takes commercial and industrial waste"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":457.419,"endTime":460.779,"body":"that would otherwise be going to landfill."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":461.284,"endTime":465.574,"body":"and turns that into a pellet, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":461.284,"endTime":465.574,"body":"that pellet can directly replace coal"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":465.844,"endTime":467.264,"body":"in the cement and steel industries."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":467.744,"endTime":470.294,"body":"Now, they're two of the most polluting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":467.744,"endTime":470.294,"body":"industries that we have out there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":470.564,"endTime":474.644,"body":"Huge challenges to decarbonize the heat"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":470.564,"endTime":474.644,"body":"process, particularly of cement and steel."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":475.044,"endTime":477.304,"body":"And this pellet can"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":475.044,"endTime":477.304,"body":"directly replace coal there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":477.734,"endTime":482.004,"body":"And that single plant creates"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":477.734,"endTime":482.004,"body":"about 800,000 tons, 800,000"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":482.024,"endTime":484.464,"body":"tons of CO2 avoided every year."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":484.859,"endTime":487.659,"body":"That's about half a million cars off"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":484.859,"endTime":487.659,"body":"the road, so we think that's a pretty"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":487.659,"endTime":491.099,"body":"good example of decarbonisation and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":487.659,"endTime":491.099,"body":"also providing a waste solution."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":491.929,"endTime":495.649,"body":"And then the final one that we have"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":491.929,"endTime":495.649,"body":"invested in is a business called"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":495.689,"endTime":500.159,"body":"the Environment Bank, where we're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":495.689,"endTime":500.159,"body":"building these large 50 to 100"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":500.239,"endTime":502.689,"body":"hectare landscape scale habitat banks."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":502.979,"endTime":506.954,"body":"So essentially turning the least"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":502.979,"endTime":506.954,"body":"productive land, In England, into"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":506.954,"endTime":512.324,"body":"these beautiful woodlands, wetlands,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":506.954,"endTime":512.324,"body":"grassland mosaics, to almost think about"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":512.324,"endTime":515.184,"body":"trying to turn the planet back into"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":512.324,"endTime":515.184,"body":"what it looked like before we came."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":515.644,"endTime":519.184,"body":"And we've created a new asset class around"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":515.644,"endTime":519.184,"body":"investing into these habitat banks, which"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":519.384,"endTime":524.774,"body":"taps into the Environment Act, which"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":519.384,"endTime":524.774,"body":"has come in England, which compels all"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":524.774,"endTime":528.304,"body":"new planning permissions to require at"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":524.774,"endTime":528.304,"body":"least 10 percent biodiversity net gain."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":528.964,"endTime":532.684,"body":"So it's a pretty expansive examples"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":528.964,"endTime":532.684,"body":"of what we think are really highly"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":533.014,"endTime":534.704,"body":"impactful infrastructure based assets,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":535.594,"endTime":536.104,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":536.224,"endTime":540.474,"body":"Interesting How do these make money?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":542.904,"endTime":545.574,"body":"And you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":542.904,"endTime":545.574,"body":"at the core of all of this they have"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":545.574,"endTime":550.324,"body":"to make money Yeah, my motto is if it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":545.574,"endTime":550.324,"body":"not profitable, it's not sustainable."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":550.974,"endTime":555.054,"body":"So for example the vertical farming"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":550.974,"endTime":555.054,"body":"business the key thing there is that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":555.054,"endTime":559.794,"body":"we can sell a product that is at"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":555.054,"endTime":559.794,"body":"or below the price of field grown"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":559.794,"endTime":563.914,"body":"crops, but yet we are 1,900 times"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":559.794,"endTime":563.914,"body":"better from a carbon perspective."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":564.524,"endTime":568.414,"body":"So it has 1,900 times carbon"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":564.524,"endTime":568.414,"body":"benefit against imported field grown"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":568.414,"endTime":572.854,"body":"crops, it has great food security,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":568.414,"endTime":572.854,"body":"it has shelf life extensions."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":573.364,"endTime":576.354,"body":"So it has this product, all these"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":573.364,"endTime":576.354,"body":"sustainability benefits, but it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":576.424,"endTime":578.204,"body":"the same price as field grown crops."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":578.634,"endTime":580.624,"body":"So which one of you in the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":578.634,"endTime":580.624,"body":"supermarket are you going to buy?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":581.084,"endTime":581.264,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":581.304,"endTime":585.404,"body":"And that's where we talk about impact"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":581.304,"endTime":585.404,"body":"can actually drive financial returns."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":585.404,"endTime":587.654,"body":"Because in this case, if you can"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":585.404,"endTime":587.654,"body":"get the economics, right, you could"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":587.674,"endTime":591.164,"body":"be on parity with the alternative,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":587.674,"endTime":591.164,"body":"less sustainable products."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":592.154,"endTime":595.364,"body":"When you have all these sustainability"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":592.154,"endTime":595.364,"body":"benefits, retailers consumers"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":595.364,"endTime":597.904,"body":"are always going to want to buy"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":595.364,"endTime":597.904,"body":"this more sustainable product."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":598.144,"endTime":601.914,"body":"And that's really how we think about"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":598.144,"endTime":601.914,"body":"everything that we do we have to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":601.914,"endTime":605.384,"body":"be able to essentially monetize the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":601.914,"endTime":605.384,"body":"sustainable impact by giving them a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":605.384,"endTime":609.084,"body":"product that is better, provides better"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":605.384,"endTime":609.084,"body":"value, but has all these sustainability"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":609.084,"endTime":613.234,"body":"credentials, but at or below the price"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":609.084,"endTime":613.234,"body":"of the less sustainable alternative."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":613.234,"endTime":617.514,"body":"And I think, you know, we've looked"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":613.234,"endTime":617.514,"body":"at other business models and seen"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":617.514,"endTime":620.364,"body":"other businesses out there that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":617.514,"endTime":620.364,"body":"have tried to charge a significant"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":620.364,"endTime":621.894,"body":"premium for sustainable products."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":621.894,"endTime":627.099,"body":"And I think, that may be okay for a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":621.894,"endTime":627.099,"body":"small early adopter cohort, but that's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":627.099,"endTime":628.569,"body":"not going to get to mass adoption."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":628.989,"endTime":632.449,"body":"And everything that we think about is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":628.989,"endTime":632.449,"body":"how do you get to the stage where every"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":632.449,"endTime":636.939,"body":"single person, like your hairdresser, your"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":632.449,"endTime":636.939,"body":"doctor, your garbage collector, they're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":636.969,"endTime":638.619,"body":"all buying these sustainable products."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":638.629,"endTime":641.279,"body":"And that's really when things"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":638.629,"endTime":641.279,"body":"will make a real difference."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":641.289,"endTime":644.649,"body":"You have to get mass adoption to get"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":641.289,"endTime":644.649,"body":"the level of change that we need."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":645.759,"endTime":646.149,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":647.169,"endTime":654.699,"body":"The vertical farms challenge"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":647.169,"endTime":654.699,"body":"generally is that they are, they"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":654.699,"endTime":658.779,"body":"require lots of energy, right,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":654.699,"endTime":658.779,"body":"to light up all those LED lights."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":659.189,"endTime":662.779,"body":"And that has to date"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":659.189,"endTime":662.779,"body":"limited their rollout."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":662.779,"endTime":665.289,"body":"As far as I can tell, it seems"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":662.779,"endTime":665.289,"body":"to be the main challenge."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":665.719,"endTime":667.029,"body":"How are you dealing with that?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":668.929,"endTime":669.659,"body":"Yeah, you're right."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":669.729,"endTime":673.799,"body":"In the sense that energy is a really big"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":669.729,"endTime":673.799,"body":"part of the cost base for vertical farms."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":701.239,"endTime":706.519,"body":"It's probably in the order of 70, 80"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":701.239,"endTime":706.519,"body":"percent of most vertical farms cost base."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":707.139,"endTime":710.509,"body":"And the reason that we've even been able"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":707.139,"endTime":710.509,"body":"to get to where we are is that when you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":710.509,"endTime":714.6890000000001,"body":"look at the cost of led lights and the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":710.509,"endTime":714.6890000000001,"body":"efficiency of those led lights, they"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":714.6890000000001,"endTime":718.899,"body":"have just plummeted in price and the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":714.6890000000001,"endTime":718.899,"body":"efficiency has just gone up massively."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":719.519,"endTime":722.599,"body":"So even say five years ago, I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":719.519,"endTime":722.599,"body":"would have said that vertical"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":722.599,"endTime":724.979,"body":"farming would have really struggled"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":722.599,"endTime":724.979,"body":"to make the economics work."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":725.0790000000001,"endTime":728.229,"body":"But now with the cost improvements,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":725.0790000000001,"endTime":728.229,"body":"efficiency improvements, the LED lights,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":728.229,"endTime":732.9490000000001,"body":"that has been one aspect of the big"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":728.229,"endTime":732.9490000000001,"body":"helping hand call it that the other part"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":732.9490000000001,"endTime":737.0290000000001,"body":"is that what we're doing is we're funding"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":732.9490000000001,"endTime":737.0290000000001,"body":"either onsite or next door, essentially"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":737.0790000000001,"endTime":741.0590000000001,"body":"our own solar projects and on future"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":737.0790000000001,"endTime":741.0590000000001,"body":"projects, we're going to be putting in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":741.0690000000001,"endTime":743.489,"body":"batteries and wind turbines as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":743.7890000000001,"endTime":746.8090000000001,"body":"So we're looking to generate 100"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":743.7890000000001,"endTime":746.8090000000001,"body":"percent of our energy from renewable"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":746.8090000000001,"endTime":748.729,"body":"sources that we will fund ourselves."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":748.7790000000001,"endTime":752.5290000000001,"body":"And then what that allows us to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":748.7790000000001,"endTime":752.5290000000001,"body":"do is effectively, renewables"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":752.5290000000001,"endTime":753.719,"body":"are coming down in price."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":753.769,"endTime":757.609,"body":"Like you'll have seen the cost of solar"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":753.769,"endTime":757.609,"body":"and wind, not wind as much, but solar"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":757.609,"endTime":759.519,"body":"has come down a lot in recent years."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":760.0690000000001,"endTime":763.3190000000001,"body":"So we have what we think is effectively"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":760.0690000000001,"endTime":763.3190000000001,"body":"declining cost base in vertical"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":763.3190000000001,"endTime":764.8090000000001,"body":"farming with the access to renewables."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":766.774,"endTime":769.7840000000001,"body":"And therefore, we think we're in a pretty"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":766.774,"endTime":769.7840000000001,"body":"good place to actually, we're already"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":769.7840000000001,"endTime":773.5840000000001,"body":"at price parity with field grown crops,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":769.7840000000001,"endTime":773.5840000000001,"body":"but with declining costs in terms of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":774.234,"endTime":778.004,"body":"renewables, efficiency gains in the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":774.234,"endTime":778.004,"body":"LED lights, we think we've actually"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":778.004,"endTime":779.624,"body":"got a declining cost base generally."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":779.974,"endTime":783.724,"body":"Which when you compare to, say, fuel"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":779.974,"endTime":783.724,"body":"grown crops, they've only got upward"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":783.724,"endTime":786.9240000000001,"body":"sloping costs in chemicals, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":783.724,"endTime":786.9240000000001,"body":"people, and land, and things like that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":786.9240000000001,"endTime":790.384,"body":"So, energy is a really big"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":786.9240000000001,"endTime":790.384,"body":"part of how we think about it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":790.504,"endTime":793.8240000000001,"body":"Obviously Gresham House has got a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":790.504,"endTime":793.8240000000001,"body":"huge pedigree in renewable energy."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":793.8240000000001,"endTime":795.0540000000001,"body":"We've got a big battery farm."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":795.0740000000001,"endTime":797.494,"body":"We've got hundreds of megawatts"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":795.0740000000001,"endTime":797.494,"body":"of renewables as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":797.504,"endTime":801.714,"body":"So, I think having that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":797.504,"endTime":801.714,"body":"renewables mindset is really key."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":801.9440000000001,"endTime":803.6640000000001,"body":"I've done 15 years in renewables."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":803.894,"endTime":808.3910000000001,"body":"The founder of vertical Fisher Farms is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":803.894,"endTime":808.3910000000001,"body":"also got a lot of pedigree in renewables,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":808.4010000000001,"endTime":813.721,"body":"so energy is a really key part, but get"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":808.4010000000001,"endTime":813.721,"body":"it right with renewables, you can manage"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":813.721,"endTime":818.3610000000001,"body":"it and actually, we think it'll come to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":813.721,"endTime":818.3610000000001,"body":"our, become part of our advantage over"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":818.3610000000001,"endTime":820.2410000000001,"body":"time as the cost of renewables comes down."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":821.2610000000001,"endTime":821.671,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":821.9810000000001,"endTime":826.7510000000001,"body":"And just to clarify, it's not that you're,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":821.9810000000001,"endTime":826.7510000000001,"body":"it's not that you guys have this vertical"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":826.7510000000001,"endTime":830.1110000000001,"body":"farm, it's that you've invested in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":826.7510000000001,"endTime":830.1110000000001,"body":"someone who has developed it, is that it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":831.696,"endTime":834.1160000000001,"body":"Yeah, so our"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":831.696,"endTime":834.1160000000001,"body":"fund typically takes majority"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":834.1160000000001,"endTime":835.946,"body":"equity stakes in businesses."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":835.956,"endTime":839.416,"body":"So in this case, we have taken with"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":835.956,"endTime":839.416,"body":"majority owner of Fisher Farms."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":839.836,"endTime":843.5160000000001,"body":"But what we've done is we've gone"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":839.836,"endTime":843.5160000000001,"body":"probably earlier than other investors."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":843.5260000000001,"endTime":847.806,"body":"So when Tristan came to us in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":843.5260000000001,"endTime":847.806,"body":"2018, he had been growing leafy"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":847.806,"endTime":849.1060000000001,"body":"greens in a shipping container."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":849.4810000000001,"endTime":854.041,"body":"And from that, we had enough growing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":849.4810000000001,"endTime":854.041,"body":"data to say, actually, yes, let's go"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":854.041,"endTime":857.551,"body":"and build a medium scale commercial"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":854.041,"endTime":857.551,"body":"plant, which is in Staffordshire,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":857.561,"endTime":859.0010000000001,"body":"that's essentially Farm 1."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":859.441,"endTime":862.7710000000001,"body":"And we then use the next few"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":859.441,"endTime":862.7710000000001,"body":"years to go and take that initial"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":862.9010000000001,"endTime":867.341,"body":"idea, call it that, and develop it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":862.9010000000001,"endTime":867.341,"body":"into a fully automated offering."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":867.5310000000001,"endTime":871.6610000000001,"body":"And then based upon the data that we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":867.5310000000001,"endTime":871.6610000000001,"body":"got out of Farm 1, we then built Farm 2,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":871.691,"endTime":873.3610000000001,"body":"which is seven and a half times bigger."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":873.6610000000001,"endTime":876.061,"body":"We think the world's largest"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":873.6610000000001,"endTime":876.061,"body":"fully automated vertical farm."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":876.696,"endTime":881.816,"body":"So we are both funded, but also"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":876.696,"endTime":881.816,"body":"partners because we've gone probably"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":881.846,"endTime":883.326,"body":"earlier than most other investors."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":883.426,"endTime":886.8960000000001,"body":"My own background, I've had a number of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":883.426,"endTime":886.8960000000001,"body":"years as a developer as it has our team."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":886.8960000000001,"endTime":891.7460000000001,"body":"And I think to go and get the change"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":886.8960000000001,"endTime":891.7460000000001,"body":"that we need to be going earlier."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":891.966,"endTime":894.326,"body":"You know, we need to be"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":891.966,"endTime":894.326,"body":"fundamentally taking ideas."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":894.6060000000001,"endTime":896.596,"body":"We need to be building"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":894.6060000000001,"endTime":896.596,"body":"new things from scratch."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":896.596,"endTime":898.816,"body":"That's the only way that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":896.596,"endTime":898.816,"body":"you can claim additionality."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":899.351,"endTime":903.6610000000001,"body":"But we need to be supporting these ideas"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":899.351,"endTime":903.6610000000001,"body":"and structuring them into a way that they"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":903.671,"endTime":908.3910000000001,"body":"then become institutional investable,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":903.671,"endTime":908.3910000000001,"body":"like institutional graded assets."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":908.811,"endTime":911.951,"body":"And then once you get to that, you show"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":908.811,"endTime":911.951,"body":"some track record, that's how you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":911.951,"endTime":915.051,"body":"going to be able to mushroom these"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":911.951,"endTime":915.051,"body":"platform businesses and really scale up."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":915.201,"endTime":919.2610000000001,"body":"So vertical farming, for example, we're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":915.201,"endTime":919.2610000000001,"body":"in the process now of over the next few"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":919.2610000000001,"endTime":923.191,"body":"months, Green Lighting Farm 3, and then"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":919.2610000000001,"endTime":923.191,"body":"we'll probably be looking to do Farms"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":923.191,"endTime":926.801,"body":"4, 5, and 6 into Canada, because that's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":923.191,"endTime":926.801,"body":"another interesting market for us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":926.801,"endTime":929.461,"body":"They've got a huge amount of green"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":926.801,"endTime":929.461,"body":"energy that's on their doorstep"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":929.461,"endTime":931.331,"body":"and at relatively low cost."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":931.971,"endTime":935.711,"body":"So we are very much a partner and,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":931.971,"endTime":935.711,"body":"you know, we have substantial owners."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":935.711,"endTime":936.691,"body":"We sit on the board."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":936.811,"endTime":938.6410000000001,"body":"I sit on the board of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":936.811,"endTime":938.6410000000001,"body":"Fisher Farms, for example."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":939.2610000000001,"endTime":942.591,"body":"Yeah, these are really exciting platforms,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":939.2610000000001,"endTime":942.591,"body":"but they take money and they take"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":942.591,"endTime":946.331,"body":"patience and they take a lot of guidance"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":942.591,"endTime":946.331,"body":"to get them to where they need to be."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":947.2660000000001,"endTime":948.176,"body":"Okay, interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":948.802,"endTime":951.2220000000001,"body":"You mentioned they're fully automated."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":951.5020000000001,"endTime":955.6020000000001,"body":"How big a a factor is that in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":951.5020000000001,"endTime":955.6020000000001,"body":"keeping the cost down as well?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":957.1220000000001,"endTime":957.9820000000001,"body":"It's a big factor."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":958.3420000000001,"endTime":960.552,"body":"You know, we've seen"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":958.3420000000001,"endTime":960.552,"body":"other offerings out there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":960.932,"endTime":962.682,"body":"For example, there's one in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":960.932,"endTime":962.682,"body":"the Middle East that claims"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":962.692,"endTime":963.7420000000001,"body":"to be the world's largest."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":963.7520000000001,"endTime":967.4720000000001,"body":"It's bigger because it's got a huge"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":963.7520000000001,"endTime":967.4720000000001,"body":"amount of space left over for people"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":967.4720000000001,"endTime":968.8820000000001,"body":"to do a lot of the manual work."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":968.9820000000001,"endTime":971.282,"body":"So from seeding to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":968.9820000000001,"endTime":971.282,"body":"harvesting and the like."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":972.322,"endTime":976.797,"body":"With us being fully automated actually"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":972.322,"endTime":976.797,"body":"means that literally every process"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":976.797,"endTime":981.437,"body":"from the seeding, to the tray going"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":976.797,"endTime":981.437,"body":"out into the growing racks, to coming"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":981.4670000000001,"endTime":985.0970000000001,"body":"back into the harvesting reseeding"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":981.4670000000001,"endTime":985.0970000000001,"body":"cleaning, and then going back out."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":985.697,"endTime":988.8370000000001,"body":"Being able to do it fully"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":985.697,"endTime":988.8370000000001,"body":"automated is incredibly efficient"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":989.167,"endTime":990.577,"body":"from a space perspective."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":991.147,"endTime":993.1370000000001,"body":"We move about a thousand trays a day."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":993.537,"endTime":997.3870000000001,"body":"Just to give you some perspective and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":993.537,"endTime":997.3870000000001,"body":"actually one step that you might like Tom"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":997.3870000000001,"endTime":1002.407,"body":"is if we, our trays are about one and a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":997.3870000000001,"endTime":1002.407,"body":"half, two meters by one and a half meters"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1002.407,"endTime":1006.3570000000001,"body":"or so, if you stack them just like on"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1002.407,"endTime":1006.3570000000001,"body":"their side, so not even like lengthwise,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1006.3570000000001,"endTime":1009.047,"body":"just sitting down on their flap sides."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1009.407,"endTime":1013.1170000000001,"body":"If we stacked all of the trays that we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1009.407,"endTime":1013.1170000000001,"body":"have in farm two up, it would actually"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1013.1170000000001,"endTime":1015.167,"body":"be three times the height of the Shard."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1015.7470000000001,"endTime":1020.3570000000001,"body":"So that just kind of gives you a scale"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1015.7470000000001,"endTime":1020.3570000000001,"body":"of quantum that trays that we have in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1020.3570000000001,"endTime":1024.897,"body":"the vertical farm, which we need to move"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1020.3570000000001,"endTime":1024.897,"body":"and we move about a thousand trays a day."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1025.322,"endTime":1028.792,"body":"Just to manage all the different crops"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1025.322,"endTime":1028.792,"body":"that we grow and cycles and moving them"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1028.802,"endTime":1033.802,"body":"from early stage to later stage and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1028.802,"endTime":1033.802,"body":"the like so try to do that with people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1033.962,"endTime":1037.732,"body":"It becomes incredibly complex"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1033.962,"endTime":1037.732,"body":"and I don't actually think"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1038.162,"endTime":1039.282,"body":"that would even be possible."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1039.542,"endTime":1043.162,"body":"You know from logistically trying to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1039.542,"endTime":1043.162,"body":"manage that people movements, the space"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1043.162,"endTime":1046.102,"body":"people need it's incredibly difficult."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1046.212,"endTime":1050.262,"body":"So we think the only way to get"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1046.212,"endTime":1050.262,"body":"vertical farming cost efficient"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1050.282,"endTime":1052.922,"body":"and continue to improve in cost"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1050.282,"endTime":1052.922,"body":"is to have it fully automated"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1054.482,"endTime":1057.087,"body":"And as you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1054.482,"endTime":1057.087,"body":"said, that's leafy greens."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1057.087,"endTime":1059.9470000000001,"body":"What about the challenges of,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1057.087,"endTime":1059.9470000000001,"body":"as you mentioned earlier, the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1059.957,"endTime":1061.727,"body":"soft fruits and the grains?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1063.5320000000002,"endTime":1066.262,"body":"Yeah, so soft fruits"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1063.5320000000002,"endTime":1066.262,"body":"we have grown a number of the different"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1066.262,"endTime":1068.422,"body":"soft fruits at Farm 1 to try them."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1068.462,"endTime":1069.7720000000002,"body":"We can get them to work."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1069.8220000000001,"endTime":1073.012,"body":"We probably, we think that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1069.8220000000001,"endTime":1073.012,"body":"we're just trying to now crack"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1073.012,"endTime":1074.262,"body":"the market with leafy greens."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1074.2720000000002,"endTime":1077.602,"body":"So once we've got that, we'll"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1074.2720000000002,"endTime":1077.602,"body":"probably then go into soft"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1077.602,"endTime":1078.922,"body":"fruits the next year or two."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1080.112,"endTime":1083.182,"body":"We, we've already started to grow"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1080.112,"endTime":1083.182,"body":"in Farm 1 and we can get it to work."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1083.182,"endTime":1086.492,"body":"So we know that it grows from"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1083.182,"endTime":1086.492,"body":"start to finish through that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1086.952,"endTime":1090.082,"body":"In terms of the UK at the moment, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1086.952,"endTime":1090.082,"body":"cost base is probably a little bit too"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1090.082,"endTime":1091.7920000000001,"body":"high in terms of the electricity cost."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1092.252,"endTime":1094.122,"body":"But I mentioned that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1092.252,"endTime":1094.122,"body":"we're looking at Canada."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1094.592,"endTime":1098.922,"body":"In Canada, the power price"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1094.592,"endTime":1098.922,"body":"is about 3p per kilowatt hour"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1098.922,"endTime":1101.992,"body":"versus it's about 25p in the UK."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1101.992,"endTime":1105.732,"body":"So with that kind of quantum"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1101.992,"endTime":1105.732,"body":"difference, we can get soy, wheat and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1105.732,"endTime":1107.5620000000001,"body":"rice to grow economically day one."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1107.732,"endTime":1110.092,"body":"And that's probably what we're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1107.732,"endTime":1110.092,"body":"going to be looking at when"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1110.092,"endTime":1112.002,"body":"we move into to that market."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1112.002,"endTime":1115.402,"body":"So, you know, there's a lot of exciting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1112.002,"endTime":1115.402,"body":"developments now where we can go and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1115.402,"endTime":1119.732,"body":"find access to green energy, but then"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1115.402,"endTime":1119.732,"body":"have some of these low power prices."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1120.5320000000002,"endTime":1124.942,"body":"The, I guess, the accessibility for"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1120.5320000000002,"endTime":1124.942,"body":"this type of soy, wheat, and rice crop,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1124.972,"endTime":1130.012,"body":"then mushrooms immediately and that's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1124.972,"endTime":1130.012,"body":"really what we set out with the vertical"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1130.012,"endTime":1134.0420000000001,"body":"farming business, really to get to a place"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1130.012,"endTime":1134.0420000000001,"body":"where it can do soy, wheat, and rice."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1134.3120000000001,"endTime":1139.5220000000002,"body":"Then you can genuinely replace or at"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1134.3120000000001,"endTime":1139.5220000000002,"body":"least supplement plant based proteins."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1139.5220000000002,"endTime":1144.5320000000002,"body":"And yeah, as you probably know, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1139.5220000000002,"endTime":1144.5320000000002,"body":"dairy industry consumes about 8."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1144.592,"endTime":1147.492,"body":"7 billion people's worth"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1144.592,"endTime":1147.492,"body":"of calories every year."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1147.5320000000002,"endTime":1149.212,"body":"That's just from the cows on this planet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1149.442,"endTime":1153.722,"body":"And if you added up all their burps and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1149.442,"endTime":1153.722,"body":"farts, they're probably about third in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1153.722,"endTime":1156.132,"body":"terms of GHG emissions as a country."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1156.152,"endTime":1160.152,"body":"So, just the emissions of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1156.152,"endTime":1160.152,"body":"cows are behind the US and China."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1160.162,"endTime":1163.0620000000001,"body":"So, you know, we need to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1160.162,"endTime":1163.0620000000001,"body":"start to tackle these things."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1163.0620000000001,"endTime":1167.092,"body":"And that's why I kind of, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1163.0620000000001,"endTime":1167.092,"body":"vertical farming is not the panacea to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1167.092,"endTime":1170.972,"body":"everything, but it certainly can tackle"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1167.092,"endTime":1170.972,"body":"quite a lot of these problems at source."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1171.722,"endTime":1174.8120000000001,"body":"And I think we just have to genuinely"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1171.722,"endTime":1174.8120000000001,"body":"be looking at everything that we can"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1174.8120000000001,"endTime":1176.5520000000001,"body":"do to decarbonize every industry."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1177.012,"endTime":1180.692,"body":"And for me the biggest challenge"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1177.012,"endTime":1180.692,"body":"I see is that nothing is happening"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1180.692,"endTime":1184.977,"body":"fast enough, but there's just not the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1180.692,"endTime":1184.977,"body":"impetus you know, these COP processes"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1184.977,"endTime":1189.1870000000001,"body":"aren't resulting in binding targets or"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1184.977,"endTime":1189.1870000000001,"body":"anything that's compelling real change."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1189.257,"endTime":1192.247,"body":"So, you know, that's the thing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1189.257,"endTime":1192.247,"body":"that I guess, I worry about."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1192.4270000000001,"endTime":1195.727,"body":"But I think that with things like"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1192.4270000000001,"endTime":1195.727,"body":"what we're doing, we are, these are"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1195.727,"endTime":1197.877,"body":"commercially viable without any subsidies."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1198.1470000000002,"endTime":1204.217,"body":"And that's the trick now is to find those"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1198.1470000000002,"endTime":1204.217,"body":"problems with the big enough challenges"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1204.217,"endTime":1207.6670000000001,"body":"and the big enough costs inherent in them."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1207.6670000000001,"endTime":1210.467,"body":"So in such that when you fix"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1207.6670000000001,"endTime":1210.467,"body":"them, there's quite a big reward."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1210.952,"endTime":1214.492,"body":"And that's, I think, how we try to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1210.952,"endTime":1214.492,"body":"think about how do you move forward"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1214.492,"endTime":1217.442,"body":"in this world where we need change,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1214.492,"endTime":1217.442,"body":"but where there isn't perhaps the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1217.442,"endTime":1220.7920000000001,"body":"government incentives or mechanisms"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1217.442,"endTime":1220.7920000000001,"body":"to compel change quick enough."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1221.922,"endTime":1222.082,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1223.152,"endTime":1226.902,"body":"You mentioned as well that the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1223.152,"endTime":1226.902,"body":"vertical farming is hundreds"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1226.902,"endTime":1228.832,"body":"of times more land efficient."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1230.862,"endTime":1234.122,"body":"There's got to be, I mean, one of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1230.862,"endTime":1234.122,"body":"the things I've been saying in talks"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1234.122,"endTime":1237.752,"body":"I've given about vertical farming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1234.122,"endTime":1237.752,"body":"is that it is absolutely necessary,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1237.752,"endTime":1240.5420000000001,"body":"not just vertical farming, but also"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1237.752,"endTime":1240.5420000000001,"body":"the likes of clean meats as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1242.237,"endTime":1248.727,"body":"They're both vitally important so that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1242.237,"endTime":1248.727,"body":"we can return all the land we've taken"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1249.317,"endTime":1256.497,"body":"back to biodiversity and therefore,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1249.317,"endTime":1256.497,"body":"you know, use the land to increase"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1256.517,"endTime":1260.887,"body":"that, I don't know, is it 70 percent"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1256.517,"endTime":1260.887,"body":"of biodiversity we've lost since 1970"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1260.887,"endTime":1262.217,"body":"or something ridiculous like that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1262.4270000000001,"endTime":1263.1870000000001,"body":"That's crazy, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1263.702,"endTime":1266.5520000000001,"body":"So is that something you're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1263.702,"endTime":1266.5520000000001,"body":"thinking about as well rewilding"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1266.5620000000001,"endTime":1267.882,"body":"as George Monbiot puts it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1268.892,"endTime":1272.402,"body":"Yeah and George is a,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1268.892,"endTime":1272.402,"body":"I'm a huge fan of George's thinking."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1272.442,"endTime":1275.612,"body":"So I think you're very much on"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1272.442,"endTime":1275.612,"body":"the right track listening to him."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1276.632,"endTime":1277.2720000000002,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1277.432,"endTime":1278.142,"body":"You know, we..."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1278.5620000000001,"endTime":1283.7920000000001,"body":"vertical farming is a great way to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1278.5620000000001,"endTime":1283.7920000000001,"body":"take a less efficient piece of land"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1283.7920000000001,"endTime":1286.712,"body":"and turn it into something that can"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1283.7920000000001,"endTime":1286.712,"body":"create a huge amount of land efficiency."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1287.0520000000001,"endTime":1290.412,"body":"Because I think the problem that we've"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1287.0520000000001,"endTime":1290.412,"body":"got now is that, for example, the UK is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1290.412,"endTime":1295.2720000000002,"body":"72 percent monoculture in farmland, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1290.412,"endTime":1295.2720000000002,"body":"quite a lot of that was only profitable"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1295.2720000000002,"endTime":1297.402,"body":"or viable because of subsidies."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1297.962,"endTime":1302.0520000000001,"body":"And that isn't the right way of using"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1297.962,"endTime":1302.0520000000001,"body":"land, and we see tons of land out there"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1302.0520000000001,"endTime":1306.4470000000001,"body":"that's huge amount of chemical used to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1302.0520000000001,"endTime":1306.4470000000001,"body":"just get it to be marginally productive."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1306.9370000000001,"endTime":1309.6570000000002,"body":"And what we're thinking about so"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1306.9370000000001,"endTime":1309.6570000000002,"body":"the business that I mentioned, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1309.6570000000002,"endTime":1313.1870000000001,"body":"environment bank, we're taking that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1309.6570000000002,"endTime":1313.1870000000001,"body":"least productive land out there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1313.1870000000001,"endTime":1317.977,"body":"So the stuff that's not growing food"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1313.1870000000001,"endTime":1317.977,"body":"can't really be done it can't you can't"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1317.977,"endTime":1319.347,"body":"really be doing anything else with it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1319.727,"endTime":1321.6870000000001,"body":"And we then turning it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1319.727,"endTime":1321.6870000000001,"body":"into these habitat banks."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1321.707,"endTime":1325.672,"body":"So for us, almost the worse the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1321.707,"endTime":1325.672,"body":"land is to start with, the better"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1325.672,"endTime":1328.5720000000001,"body":"it is from our perspective to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1325.672,"endTime":1328.5720000000001,"body":"create more biodiversity from it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1328.672,"endTime":1330.132,"body":"So absolutely."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1330.132,"endTime":1333.982,"body":"I think in the way that we think this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1330.132,"endTime":1333.982,"body":"is going full circle, so vertical"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1333.992,"endTime":1338.817,"body":"farming will somewhat displace the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1333.992,"endTime":1338.817,"body":"least productive farmland in various"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1338.817,"endTime":1342.457,"body":"countries, because at a point, that least"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1338.817,"endTime":1342.457,"body":"productive farmland won't be able to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1342.457,"endTime":1344.477,"body":"compete with vertical farming to produce."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1344.877,"endTime":1347.987,"body":"But what we can then do is take"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1344.877,"endTime":1347.987,"body":"that least productive land and then"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1348.007,"endTime":1349.4470000000001,"body":"turn it into these habitat banks."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1349.4470000000001,"endTime":1353.857,"body":"And these habitat banks then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1349.4470000000001,"endTime":1353.857,"body":"are a great way to use the land and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1353.867,"endTime":1357.817,"body":"also provides a very good income stream"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1353.867,"endTime":1357.817,"body":"for the landowners and allows them to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1357.827,"endTime":1361.217,"body":"offset some of their incomes that they"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1357.827,"endTime":1361.217,"body":"would otherwise get that they wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1361.217,"endTime":1363.027,"body":"have otherwise got from the land."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1363.027,"endTime":1367.467,"body":"And this is all about trying to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1363.027,"endTime":1367.467,"body":"use our land and all of our finite"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1367.497,"endTime":1369.217,"body":"resources in the most efficient way."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1369.857,"endTime":1374.797,"body":"And I think we can find a way to tap into"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1369.857,"endTime":1374.797,"body":"that and always find the most effective,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1374.797,"endTime":1379.487,"body":"most productive way to use a piece of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1374.797,"endTime":1379.487,"body":"land or a finite resource that's got"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1379.517,"endTime":1383.9370000000001,"body":"to be good for the planet and that's I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1379.517,"endTime":1383.9370000000001,"body":"think that's I think we try to follow"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1385.117,"endTime":1390.617,"body":"And explain how does the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1385.117,"endTime":1390.617,"body":"landowner earn money from this land bank?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1392.257,"endTime":1395.4270000000001,"body":"Yeah, so we would"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1392.257,"endTime":1395.4270000000001,"body":"typically lease the land or sometimes we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1395.4270000000001,"endTime":1400.3970000000002,"body":"buy the land from that farmer And so what"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1395.4270000000001,"endTime":1400.3970000000002,"body":"we typically looking for is 50 to 100"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1400.4370000000001,"endTime":1404.717,"body":"hectare blocks of their farm where perhaps"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1400.4370000000001,"endTime":1404.717,"body":"they weren't doing anything with it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1404.9370000000001,"endTime":1408.8120000000001,"body":"Sometimes you know, we take land that's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1404.9370000000001,"endTime":1408.8120000000001,"body":"got tree stumps and yeah literally"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1408.8120000000001,"endTime":1412.142,"body":"the least productive land and we then"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1408.8120000000001,"endTime":1412.142,"body":"enter into a long term lease with"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1412.142,"endTime":1417.5620000000001,"body":"them and we pay them a fixed annual"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1412.142,"endTime":1417.5620000000001,"body":"rental for that land and then in some"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1417.5620000000001,"endTime":1421.712,"body":"instances we'll pay that landowner to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1417.5620000000001,"endTime":1421.712,"body":"help manage and maintain that habitat"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1421.712,"endTime":1423.332,"body":"bank over the 30 years as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1423.332,"endTime":1426.2720000000002,"body":"So it's a nice income stream for them."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1426.2720000000002,"endTime":1426.722,"body":"It's."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1427.182,"endTime":1430.0420000000001,"body":"We can typically give them substantially"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1427.182,"endTime":1430.0420000000001,"body":"more than what they could otherwise"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1430.102,"endTime":1433.8020000000001,"body":"earn from ELMS or the Environment Land"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1430.102,"endTime":1433.8020000000001,"body":"Management Scheme or other equivalent I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1433.8020000000001,"endTime":1436.2920000000001,"body":"suppose land support schemes out there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1436.702,"endTime":1440.5420000000001,"body":"And ultimately then they, if it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1436.702,"endTime":1440.5420000000001,"body":"a leasehold situation, they then"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1440.582,"endTime":1444.732,"body":"end up at the end of the 30 odd"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1440.582,"endTime":1444.732,"body":"years with a beautiful woodland,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1444.732,"endTime":1446.862,"body":"wetland, grassland mosaic."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1447.112,"endTime":1449.732,"body":"So it's a pretty nice thing for"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1447.112,"endTime":1449.732,"body":"them to have on their estate."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1450.2920000000001,"endTime":1454.4070000000002,"body":"And what we're actually finding now is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1450.2920000000001,"endTime":1454.4070000000002,"body":"that planning authorities, once they"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1454.4070000000002,"endTime":1457.1970000000001,"body":"know that we've got a Habitat Bank,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1454.4070000000002,"endTime":1457.1970000000001,"body":"they're encouraging new development"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1457.207,"endTime":1461.377,"body":"to go alongside those Habitat Banks"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1457.207,"endTime":1461.377,"body":"because then there's going to be 30"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1461.377,"endTime":1463.9170000000001,"body":"plus years of beautiful green space."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1464.287,"endTime":1467.077,"body":"So this isn't that you're going to go"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1464.287,"endTime":1467.077,"body":"kick a football there, but just being"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1467.077,"endTime":1474.087,"body":"close and have access to actually proper"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1467.077,"endTime":1474.087,"body":"grassland wilderness type spaces is great"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1474.097,"endTime":1475.967,"body":"for people's mental health and health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1475.967,"endTime":1480.207,"body":"And the other big thing with these"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1475.967,"endTime":1480.207,"body":"Habitat Banks is that because"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1480.207,"endTime":1483.537,"body":"they're large and concentrated,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1480.207,"endTime":1483.537,"body":"they have a big accelerator benefit."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1483.987,"endTime":1486.637,"body":"So in terms of the amount of flora"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1483.987,"endTime":1486.637,"body":"and fauna growth, you're going to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1486.637,"endTime":1490.237,"body":"get a lot more when you've got 50-100"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1486.637,"endTime":1490.237,"body":"hectares for the birds and insects to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1490.237,"endTime":1493.4470000000001,"body":"come and build their families rather"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1490.237,"endTime":1493.4470000000001,"body":"than small little nature strips,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1493.807,"endTime":1498.387,"body":"which yes, some of the risks that we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1493.807,"endTime":1498.387,"body":"see with BNG not being done at scale."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1499.017,"endTime":1501.477,"body":"Sure, and how are you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1499.017,"endTime":1501.477,"body":"making money off the land banks?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1503.027,"endTime":1507.4270000000001,"body":"So we generate a BNG"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1503.027,"endTime":1507.4270000000001,"body":"unit or Biodiversity Net Gain Unit,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1507.597,"endTime":1512.592,"body":"and that's in accordance with DEFRAs"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1507.597,"endTime":1512.592,"body":"so the UK government department DEFRAs"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1512.622,"endTime":1514.852,"body":"created a BNG metric, DEFRA metric 4."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1514.852,"endTime":1516.512,"body":"0 is currently where we're at."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1516.8220000000001,"endTime":1519.742,"body":"And that basically says, okay,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1516.8220000000001,"endTime":1519.742,"body":"this is what the land is today."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1520.0620000000001,"endTime":1523.162,"body":"This is what we're going to put"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1520.0620000000001,"endTime":1523.162,"body":"into it in terms of interventions."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1523.2720000000002,"endTime":1526.422,"body":"And this is the amount of BNG units"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1523.2720000000002,"endTime":1526.422,"body":"we're going to generate from that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1526.826,"endTime":1530.386,"body":"From that unit that we generate,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1526.826,"endTime":1530.386,"body":"we then sell that to the developers"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1530.4260000000002,"endTime":1532.806,"body":"who are going to need that to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1530.4260000000002,"endTime":1532.806,"body":"meet their planning obligations."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1533.1960000000001,"endTime":1536.006,"body":"Or we can meet, we can sell"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1533.1960000000001,"endTime":1536.006,"body":"it to corporates who want"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1536.006,"endTime":1537.246,"body":"to become nature positive."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1537.576,"endTime":1539.826,"body":"They want to meet some of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1537.576,"endTime":1539.826,"body":"their TNFD obligations."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1540.256,"endTime":1543.636,"body":"Or for example, they're in a regulated"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1540.256,"endTime":1543.636,"body":"asset sector where they're going to have"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1543.636,"endTime":1547.486,"body":"to start, for example, the water companies"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1543.636,"endTime":1547.486,"body":"are going to have to start reporting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1547.486,"endTime":1549.9260000000002,"body":"on their impact on nature by 2025."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1550.336,"endTime":1554.366,"body":"So there's a lot of political and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1550.336,"endTime":1554.366,"body":"regulatory push for corporates to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1554.366,"endTime":1555.856,"body":"start to become nature positive."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1556.326,"endTime":1560.606,"body":"So from that Habitat Bank, we can"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1556.326,"endTime":1560.606,"body":"either create units that help people"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1560.606,"endTime":1563.951,"body":"meet their planning obligations,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1560.606,"endTime":1563.951,"body":"or for corporates to meet their"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1564.231,"endTime":1565.731,"body":"desire to become nature positive."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1566.981,"endTime":1571.0910000000001,"body":"This is a very"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1566.981,"endTime":1571.0910000000001,"body":"immature space as yet, I want to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1571.101,"endTime":1575.901,"body":"think, measuring and reporting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1571.101,"endTime":1575.901,"body":"particularly on biodiversity gains."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1576.5610000000001,"endTime":1579.0410000000002,"body":"How are you tackling that?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1581.7910000000002,"endTime":1584.8310000000001,"body":"So I think we start from"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1581.7910000000002,"endTime":1584.8310000000001,"body":"the fact that we've got this Defra metric,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1584.851,"endTime":1592.021,"body":"which is a scientifically based tool"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1584.851,"endTime":1592.021,"body":"that says As I said, land intervention,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1592.031,"endTime":1596.431,"body":"this is the BNG unit out, and actually"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1592.031,"endTime":1596.431,"body":"the founder of the Environment Bank is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1596.431,"endTime":1599.5410000000002,"body":"a chap called Professor David Hill, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1596.431,"endTime":1599.5410000000002,"body":"he was a big part of the architecture"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1599.5410000000002,"endTime":1603.0410000000002,"body":"group for that BNG tool, and he's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1599.5410000000002,"endTime":1603.0410000000002,"body":"been pushing for government to push"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1603.941,"endTime":1608.611,"body":"BNG into law for the last 15 years,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1603.941,"endTime":1608.611,"body":"so that is the fundamental principle,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1608.611,"endTime":1612.771,"body":"there is a very defined scientific"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1608.611,"endTime":1612.771,"body":"tool to determine How do you get the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1612.771,"endTime":1614.371,"body":"number of BNG units in the first place?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1614.8410000000001,"endTime":1618.941,"body":"And then after that, we're using tools"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1614.8410000000001,"endTime":1618.941,"body":"such as eDNA, which is pretty amazing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1618.951,"endTime":1622.5810000000001,"body":"You literally just take a piece of soil"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1618.951,"endTime":1622.5810000000001,"body":"from a habitat bank and you look at it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1622.5810000000001,"endTime":1626.921,"body":"before you do anything that'll be able to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1622.5810000000001,"endTime":1626.921,"body":"tell you the number of species of animal"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1626.921,"endTime":1628.431,"body":"and plant life that are there today."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1628.721,"endTime":1630.8010000000002,"body":"And then you do periodic"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1628.721,"endTime":1630.8010000000002,"body":"sampling after that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1630.8010000000002,"endTime":1635.001,"body":"And that can tell you the level of plant"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1630.8010000000002,"endTime":1635.001,"body":"life and animal life that's increased."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1635.521,"endTime":1638.641,"body":"And then you can do things like"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1635.521,"endTime":1638.641,"body":"bioacoustics, which are literally, you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1638.651,"endTime":1642.781,"body":"have a special listening tool on site,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1638.651,"endTime":1642.781,"body":"and then that can listen to all sorts"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1642.781,"endTime":1647.381,"body":"of very complex sounds, and that can"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1642.781,"endTime":1647.381,"body":"tell you the level of organic and plant"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1647.381,"endTime":1649.131,"body":"life improvement on a particular site."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1649.131,"endTime":1653.641,"body":"So they're two examples of, I think,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1649.131,"endTime":1653.641,"body":"some pretty robust tools that can"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1653.641,"endTime":1658.5610000000001,"body":"allow you to show, do BNG well, you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1653.641,"endTime":1658.5610000000001,"body":"can really create some huge impact."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1659.411,"endTime":1659.5410000000002,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1659.5410000000002,"endTime":1663.5410000000002,"body":"My stat that I always love to quote is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1659.5410000000002,"endTime":1663.5410000000002,"body":"that there's some great science out there"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1663.5410000000002,"endTime":1668.481,"body":"that says that if we did nature based"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1663.5410000000002,"endTime":1668.481,"body":"solutions globally, so that's everyone"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1668.491,"endTime":1674.021,"body":"has to play ball, but we could get"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1668.491,"endTime":1674.021,"body":"about 10 gigatons worth of CO2 savings."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1674.281,"endTime":1678.3310000000001,"body":"That's the emissions of the US, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1674.281,"endTime":1678.3310000000001,"body":"EU and Japan combined from doing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1678.3310000000001,"endTime":1680.001,"body":"nature based solutions at scale."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1680.5710000000001,"endTime":1684.651,"body":"So I think we've spent a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1680.5710000000001,"endTime":1684.651,"body":"kind of looking at climate and mechanical"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1684.651,"endTime":1688.451,"body":"tools, but actually mother nature"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1684.651,"endTime":1688.451,"body":"has got a pretty big power herself."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1688.491,"endTime":1690.271,"body":"And we should try to harness that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1691.121,"endTime":1695.3210000000001,"body":"And is that 10 gigatons a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1691.121,"endTime":1695.3210000000001,"body":"once off or is that 10 gigatons per annum?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1695.351,"endTime":1696.851,"body":"Every year, per year."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1696.931,"endTime":1700.621,"body":"And the other really cool thing is if we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1696.931,"endTime":1700.621,"body":"could get to that level of biodiversity"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1700.621,"endTime":1704.5610000000001,"body":"protection and enhancement, there's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1700.621,"endTime":1704.5610000000001,"body":"actually a natural cooling effect."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1704.871,"endTime":1706.5610000000001,"body":"They think it's actually up to 0."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1706.5610000000001,"endTime":1711.2160000000001,"body":"5 degrees, which again is pretty mind"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1706.5610000000001,"endTime":1711.2160000000001,"body":"bending because Yeah, there's no chance"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1711.2160000000001,"endTime":1715.006,"body":"we're not going to break 1.5 and I think"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1711.2160000000001,"endTime":1715.006,"body":"it's highly unlikely that we're ever going"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1715.006,"endTime":1717.136,"body":"to even stay below 2 at our current rate."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1717.156,"endTime":1721.056,"body":"So having the prospect that we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1717.156,"endTime":1721.056,"body":"could maybe cool ourselves by half a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1721.056,"endTime":1722.496,"body":"degree is pretty compelling as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1723.881,"endTime":1724.471,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1724.731,"endTime":1725.3010000000002,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1726.0510000000002,"endTime":1728.621,"body":"Peter, we're coming towards"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1726.0510000000002,"endTime":1728.621,"body":"the end of the podcast now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1728.651,"endTime":1733.891,"body":"Is there any question I haven't asked that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1728.651,"endTime":1733.891,"body":"you wish I had or any aspect of this we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1733.891,"endTime":1736.961,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1733.891,"endTime":1736.961,"body":"important for people to be aware of?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1738.5510000000002,"endTime":1739.491,"body":"I think a few things."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1739.491,"endTime":1742.431,"body":"I think we touched on some"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1739.491,"endTime":1742.431,"body":"really big macro thematics and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1742.431,"endTime":1743.901,"body":"some of the specific ideas."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1743.931,"endTime":1748.621,"body":"I think for me, generally,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1743.931,"endTime":1748.621,"body":"nothing's happening fast enough."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1748.871,"endTime":1752.0510000000002,"body":"And I think you and your listeners,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1748.871,"endTime":1752.0510000000002,"body":"anything that we can do to try to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1752.8410000000001,"endTime":1754.861,"body":"accelerate change is really necessary."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1754.861,"endTime":1759.181,"body":"And I think one of the key parts of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1754.861,"endTime":1759.181,"body":"that is really understanding that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1759.191,"endTime":1761.141,"body":"impact can drive financial returns now."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1761.461,"endTime":1765.0710000000001,"body":"And, you know, in the past impact was"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1761.461,"endTime":1765.0710000000001,"body":"almost a dirty word in the financial"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1765.0710000000001,"endTime":1769.101,"body":"investment community, because it meant"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1765.0710000000001,"endTime":1769.101,"body":"you had to sacrifice returns and that's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1769.101,"endTime":1773.506,"body":"never going to get the scale of capital"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1769.101,"endTime":1773.506,"body":"that we need to go and make change happen."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1773.6960000000001,"endTime":1777.4460000000001,"body":"So I guess I want people to understand"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1773.6960000000001,"endTime":1777.4460000000001,"body":"now that hopefully I've given you some"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1777.4460000000001,"endTime":1782.256,"body":"examples where impact can drive returns"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1777.4460000000001,"endTime":1782.256,"body":"and therefore hopefully that paves a way"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1782.266,"endTime":1787.2160000000001,"body":"for the really large pools of capital"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1782.266,"endTime":1787.2160000000001,"body":"to come in and to commit to investing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1787.2160000000001,"endTime":1790.736,"body":"in these sustainable infrastructure type"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1787.2160000000001,"endTime":1790.736,"body":"solutions which can ultimately create"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1791.116,"endTime":1795.486,"body":"tangible real world solutions to these"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1791.116,"endTime":1795.486,"body":"big environmental and social problems."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1795.486,"endTime":1799.886,"body":"And that, for me, is the part"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1795.486,"endTime":1799.886,"body":"that, you know, we just need"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1799.886,"endTime":1801.156,"body":"to get that message out there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1801.2060000000001,"endTime":1804.846,"body":"I think unfortunately, climate,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1801.2060000000001,"endTime":1804.846,"body":"to some extent, has kind of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1805.616,"endTime":1807.076,"body":"hasn't had the best PR firm."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1807.516,"endTime":1811.086,"body":"Things like COVID had a huge amount"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1807.516,"endTime":1811.086,"body":"of air time over the last few years."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1811.116,"endTime":1815.386,"body":"But from a relative perspective, COVID"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1811.116,"endTime":1815.386,"body":"was a speck in the ocean compared to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1815.4260000000002,"endTime":1819.4460000000001,"body":"the problems that we face with climate,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1815.4260000000002,"endTime":1819.4460000000001,"body":"nature, emergencies and social problems."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1819.4560000000001,"endTime":1824.016,"body":"So it's just trying to get it back to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1819.4560000000001,"endTime":1824.016,"body":"front of mind that yes, there is big"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1824.1760000000002,"endTime":1828.326,"body":"problems, but there are also some really"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1824.1760000000002,"endTime":1828.326,"body":"tangible solutions to tackle that today."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1828.846,"endTime":1829.106,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1829.626,"endTime":1829.786,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1829.786,"endTime":1829.9560000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1829.9560000000001,"endTime":1830.1660000000002,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1830.4660000000001,"endTime":1833.906,"body":"In fact, that's why I set up this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1830.4660000000001,"endTime":1833.906,"body":"podcast was to highlight those"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1833.906,"endTime":1835.4660000000001,"body":"solutions for precisely that reason."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1835.4660000000001,"endTime":1836.636,"body":"They're not getting enough airtime."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1836.636,"endTime":1837.616,"body":"So cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1838.556,"endTime":1839.606,"body":"Peter that's been fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1839.606,"endTime":1842.4160000000002,"body":"If people would like to know more"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1839.606,"endTime":1842.4160000000002,"body":"about yourself or any of the things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1842.4160000000002,"endTime":1845.1660000000002,"body":"we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1842.4160000000002,"endTime":1845.1660000000002,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1846.016,"endTime":1849.106,"body":"You can find me on"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1846.016,"endTime":1849.106,"body":"LinkedIn Peter Bachmann on LinkedIn or"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1849.106,"endTime":1853.126,"body":"you can find me through Gresham House"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1849.106,"endTime":1853.126,"body":"website there, but look, I'm always happy"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1853.126,"endTime":1856.2060000000001,"body":"to talk more and I'd love to have a chat"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1853.126,"endTime":1856.2060000000001,"body":"and Tom if you could ever get George on"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1856.396,"endTime":1859.846,"body":"the line, it'd be really cool to talk"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1856.396,"endTime":1859.846,"body":"about some of his ideas because he's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1859.846,"endTime":1864.1760000000002,"body":"got some really good thinking around"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1859.846,"endTime":1864.1760000000002,"body":"alternative proteins and the like."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1864.1760000000002,"endTime":1868.1760000000002,"body":"And that's another thematic that, you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1864.1760000000002,"endTime":1868.1760000000002,"body":"know, we think that in that resource"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1868.1760000000002,"endTime":1871.826,"body":"efficiency topic I mentioned earlier"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1868.1760000000002,"endTime":1871.826,"body":"alternative proteins and essentially"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1871.826,"endTime":1874.9160000000002,"body":"how to decarbonize the food industry"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1871.826,"endTime":1874.9160000000002,"body":"is a really powerful thematic."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1875.136,"endTime":1877.4560000000001,"body":"One that no one's really"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1875.136,"endTime":1877.4560000000001,"body":"tackling enough yet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1878.026,"endTime":1880.576,"body":"But yeah, there's plenty of other"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1878.026,"endTime":1880.576,"body":"places we could deep dive into"},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1880.596,"endTime":1881.806,"body":"at some point in the future, Tom."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1882.7060000000001,"endTime":1883.1660000000002,"body":"Great great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1883.236,"endTime":1884.7060000000001,"body":"Super Peter, that's been fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1884.7060000000001,"endTime":1886.4560000000001,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1884.7060000000001,"endTime":1886.4560000000001,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1887.406,"endTime":1887.906,"body":"My pleasure."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1887.906,"endTime":1888.746,"body":"Thanks for having me, Tom."},{"speaker":"Peter Bachmann","startTime":1888.796,"endTime":1889.246,"body":"Real pleasure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1894.386,"endTime":1896.276,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1894.386,"endTime":1896.276,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1896.9660000000001,"endTime":1898.106,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1898.9460000000001,"endTime":1901.856,"body":"If you'd like to know more about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1898.9460000000001,"endTime":1901.856,"body":"the Climate Confident podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1902.036,"endTime":1907.766,"body":"feel free to drop me an email"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1902.036,"endTime":1907.766,"body":"to Tom raftery@outlook.com."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1908.336,"endTime":1910.766,"body":"Or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1911.3300000000002,"endTime":1915.05,"body":"If you like the show, please, don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1911.3300000000002,"endTime":1915.05,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1915.05,"endTime":1919.5800000000002,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1915.05,"endTime":1919.5800000000002,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1920.21,"endTime":1923.15,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1920.21,"endTime":1923.15,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1923.3600000000001,"endTime":1926.06,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1923.3600000000001,"endTime":1926.06,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1926.96,"endTime":1929.0,"body":"Thanks, catch you all next time."}]}