{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":3.401,"endTime":5.501,"body":"I'm sure your listeners"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":3.401,"endTime":5.501,"body":"are very familiar with their phones,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":5.721,"endTime":10.661,"body":"and your phones do about 500 to"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":5.721,"endTime":10.661,"body":"700 cycles before they reach their"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":10.661,"endTime":13.301,"body":"80% of their initial capacity."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":13.401,"endTime":16.941,"body":"And 80% is typically what's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":13.401,"endTime":16.941,"body":"referred to as the end of life."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":17.641,"endTime":19.831,"body":"Automotive batteries,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":17.641,"endTime":19.831,"body":"they're a little bit better."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":19.831,"endTime":24.311,"body":"Maybe they're getting a thousand"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":19.831,"endTime":24.311,"body":"to 2000 cycles, 2000 rare,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":24.691,"endTime":25.791,"body":"but that's sort of the range."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":26.441,"endTime":32.138,"body":"The batteries that Electrovaya developed"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":26.441,"endTime":32.138,"body":"are getting about nine to 10,000 cycles"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":32.461,"endTime":34.531,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":32.461,"endTime":34.531,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.541,"endTime":36.041,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.361,"endTime":40.091,"body":"This is the Climate Confident"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.361,"endTime":40.091,"body":"podcast, the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":40.231,"endTime":44.001,"body":"showcasing best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":40.231,"endTime":44.001,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":44.431,"endTime":46.371,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":46.531,"endTime":50.291,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":46.531,"endTime":50.291,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":50.451,"endTime":52.811,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.389,"endTime":53.919,"body":"Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.919,"endTime":57.049,"body":"Welcome to episode 140 of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.919,"endTime":57.049,"body":"Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.559,"endTime":60.899,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery and before"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.559,"endTime":60.899,"body":"we kick off today's show, I want to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.899,"endTime":65.049,"body":"take a moment to express my gratitude"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.899,"endTime":65.049,"body":"to all of our amazing supporters."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.839,"endTime":69.599,"body":"Your support has been instrumental in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.839,"endTime":69.599,"body":"keeping the podcast going and I'm really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.599,"endTime":71.449,"body":"grateful for each and every one of you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":72.644,"endTime":75.984,"body":"If you're not already a supporter, I'd"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":72.644,"endTime":75.984,"body":"like to encourage you to consider joining"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.984,"endTime":79.184,"body":"our community of like minded individuals"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.984,"endTime":79.184,"body":"who are passionate about climate."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":80.144,"endTime":83.674,"body":"Supporting the podcast is easy and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":80.144,"endTime":83.674,"body":"affordable with options starting as low"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":83.674,"endTime":85.984,"body":"as just three euros or dollars a month."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.684,"endTime":89.504,"body":"That's less than the cost of a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.684,"endTime":89.504,"body":"cup of coffee and your support"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":89.504,"endTime":92.234,"body":"will make a huge difference in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":89.504,"endTime":92.234,"body":"keeping this show going strong."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":93.094,"endTime":96.784,"body":"To become a supporter, simply click on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":93.094,"endTime":96.784,"body":"the support link in the show notes of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":96.784,"endTime":100.074,"body":"this or any episode, or visit tinyurl."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":100.094,"endTime":102.364,"body":"com slash ClimatePod."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":103.474,"endTime":108.229,"body":"Now, without further ado, with me on the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":103.474,"endTime":108.229,"body":"show today, I have my special guest, Raj."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":108.569,"endTime":110.569,"body":"Raj, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":110.569,"endTime":111.859,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":113.316,"endTime":114.176,"body":"Thanks, Tom."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":114.176,"endTime":114.416,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":114.446,"endTime":117.076,"body":"It's a pleasure being here, first"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":114.446,"endTime":117.076,"body":"of all, and thanks for inviting me."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":117.406,"endTime":119.426,"body":"So my name's Raj Das Gupta."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":119.446,"endTime":123.316,"body":"I'm the CEO here at a Battery"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":119.446,"endTime":123.316,"body":"company called Electrovaya."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":124.006,"endTime":126.006,"body":"And I have a background"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":124.006,"endTime":126.006,"body":"in material science."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":126.226,"endTime":130.956,"body":"I'm very passionate about what"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":126.226,"endTime":130.956,"body":"we do as a company and how we are"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":131.346,"endTime":135.886,"body":"help mitigating climate change"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":131.346,"endTime":135.886,"body":"overall with our, what we make."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":137.231,"endTime":137.521,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":137.701,"endTime":142.761,"body":"And tell me a little bit, Raj, before"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":137.701,"endTime":142.761,"body":"we get into what it is you make, tell"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":142.761,"endTime":146.401,"body":"me a little bit about the why you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":142.761,"endTime":146.401,"body":"make it, you know, what was the, the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":146.401,"endTime":148.601,"body":"genesis behind starting the company?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":149.941,"endTime":153.971,"body":"So Electrovaya has"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":149.941,"endTime":153.971,"body":"been in the lithium ion sphere"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":154.351,"endTime":158.531,"body":"for over two decades, and I would"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":154.351,"endTime":158.531,"body":"say we were one of the pioneering"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":159.006,"endTime":161.516,"body":"technology companies in the sector."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":161.896,"endTime":166.493,"body":"So a lot of firsts, a lot of key"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":161.896,"endTime":166.493,"body":"developments that the company"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":166.873,"endTime":170.303,"body":"was involved with in the early"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":166.873,"endTime":170.303,"body":"days of lithium ion batteries."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":170.363,"endTime":173.733,"body":"So, some of which, quite a bit of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":170.363,"endTime":173.733,"body":"which is before my time at the company."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":173.753,"endTime":179.453,"body":"So I've been with the company for"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":173.753,"endTime":179.453,"body":"15 years, but my father and a very"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":179.453,"endTime":183.723,"body":"close friend, they co-founded the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":179.453,"endTime":183.723,"body":"company a long, long time back."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":184.343,"endTime":189.183,"body":"In the early days Electrovaya"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":184.343,"endTime":189.183,"body":"was one of the early pioneers in"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":189.183,"endTime":190.383,"body":"the lithium ion space in general."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":190.983,"endTime":194.863,"body":"I think we were the first company to"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":190.983,"endTime":194.863,"body":"make pouch lithium ion pouch cells, which"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":194.923,"endTime":199.726,"body":"at the time was being directed towards"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":194.923,"endTime":199.726,"body":"aerospace activities, especially with"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":199.986,"endTime":201.886,"body":"one of our early projects was with NASA."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":202.776,"endTime":207.096,"body":"However, when I joined the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":202.776,"endTime":207.096,"body":"company, the real push was for the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":207.096,"endTime":209.226,"body":"electrification of the automobile."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":209.646,"endTime":213.846,"body":"So that was getting a lot"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":209.646,"endTime":213.846,"body":"of attention globally."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":214.546,"endTime":218.936,"body":"We thought that there was gonna"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":214.546,"endTime":218.936,"body":"be, and this is 2009 for timing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":218.936,"endTime":219.246,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":219.906,"endTime":224.056,"body":"and Obama had just become"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":219.906,"endTime":224.056,"body":"president and there was a target for"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":224.056,"endTime":228.776,"body":"1 million electric cars in the United"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":224.056,"endTime":228.776,"body":"States by 2015, I think it was the target."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":229.676,"endTime":231.95,"body":"And we uh, we, we  we had"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":229.676,"endTime":231.95,"body":"some great partnerships."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":232.0,"endTime":236.355,"body":"So Electrovaya was partnered with"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":232.0,"endTime":236.355,"body":"Chrysler on some plugin hybrid programs"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":237.015,"endTime":238.515,"body":"and everything was very exciting."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":239.265,"endTime":244.755,"body":"What ended up happening was a only,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":239.265,"endTime":244.755,"body":"a really only really, one car company"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":244.825,"endTime":249.915,"body":"took the electrification movement"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":244.825,"endTime":249.915,"body":"very seriously that time and our"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":249.915,"endTime":254.385,"body":"programs with Chrysler ended up"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":249.915,"endTime":254.385,"body":"getting canceled and that, that's fine."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":254.385,"endTime":259.115,"body":"Electrovaya continued the focus though"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":254.385,"endTime":259.115,"body":"on automotive applications where we"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":259.115,"endTime":263.378,"body":"supplied Daimler for, if you've seen"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":259.115,"endTime":263.378,"body":"these those electric smart cars."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":263.378,"endTime":264.458,"body":"They're very small cars."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":265.438,"endTime":270.018,"body":"And with, with Daimler, the, the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":265.438,"endTime":270.018,"body":"premise was we were supplying a safer"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":270.048,"endTime":273.978,"body":"battery that used a ceramic separator."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":274.268,"endTime":279.255,"body":"And that ceramic separator is what"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":274.268,"endTime":279.255,"body":"goes uh, between your positive and"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":279.255,"endTime":284.505,"body":"your negative electrodes in your"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":279.255,"endTime":284.505,"body":"lithium-ion battery, and, in our"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":284.505,"endTime":289.505,"body":"case, the ceramics are stable at high"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":284.505,"endTime":289.505,"body":"temperatures and make the batteries"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":289.535,"endTime":292.065,"body":"much more immune to thermal runaway."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":292.205,"endTime":297.465,"body":"So when you hear in the news batteries"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":292.205,"endTime":297.465,"body":"overheated, it can happen for various"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":297.465,"endTime":299.345,"body":"reasons, external or internal."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":299.845,"endTime":304.825,"body":"But what what's relatively common in,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":299.845,"endTime":304.825,"body":"in, in that terminology is the battery"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":304.825,"endTime":309.345,"body":"overheated means it's technically probably"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":304.825,"endTime":309.345,"body":"caught fire and then the neighboring cell"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":309.575,"endTime":311.905,"body":"also gets overheated and it catches fire."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":312.725,"endTime":313.745,"body":"Why does it catch fire?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":313.815,"endTime":318.905,"body":"It's because that separator in the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":313.815,"endTime":318.905,"body":"battery starts to shrink when it gets to"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":318.905,"endTime":321.505,"body":"about a hundred to 120 degrees Celsius."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":322.125,"endTime":326.745,"body":"And obviously if you gotta shrinking"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":322.125,"endTime":326.745,"body":"separator, you get a cascading"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":327.005,"endTime":328.475,"body":"short circuit, which is a big fire."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":329.055,"endTime":333.815,"body":"In our case, that's definitely mitigated"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":329.055,"endTime":333.815,"body":"to a high degree with a ceramic separator,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":333.815,"endTime":337.375,"body":"which is stable at high temperatures,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":333.815,"endTime":337.375,"body":"and that makes our batteries much safer."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":337.675,"endTime":340.775,"body":"And then to date, any battery"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":337.675,"endTime":340.775,"body":"that we've produced that uses this"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":340.775,"endTime":345.925,"body":"technology has not, we've had zero"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":340.775,"endTime":345.925,"body":"battery safety incidents in any"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":346.435,"endTime":351.415,"body":"including 20,000 cars and let's say"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":346.435,"endTime":351.415,"body":"7,000 material handling vehicles."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":353.075,"endTime":358.915,"body":"But again, 20, 20 17 that Smart car, you"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":353.075,"endTime":358.915,"body":"don't see too many of them good reason."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":359.135,"endTime":360.075,"body":"It didn't sell well."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":360.565,"endTime":365.795,"body":"There was pressure from the automotive"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":360.565,"endTime":365.795,"body":"side to the lower costs, and we were a,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":365.795,"endTime":367.555,"body":"we're a relatively small battery company."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":368.38,"endTime":373.28,"body":"And we were already losing money,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":368.38,"endTime":373.28,"body":"so we were getting squeezed out."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":373.42,"endTime":377.68,"body":"So the company, we, we, we"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":373.42,"endTime":377.68,"body":"decided to make a complete pivot."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":377.9,"endTime":381.12,"body":"We had this technology which"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":377.9,"endTime":381.12,"body":"made the battery safer."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":381.82,"endTime":383.56,"body":"We took advantage of that technology."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":384.85,"endTime":388.79,"body":"And changed the way we made the cells."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":389.05,"endTime":392.87,"body":"We changed the way the electrolytes"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":389.05,"endTime":392.87,"body":"that we could use in the, in the cells."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":393.29,"endTime":396.43,"body":"And the outcome being was a, a"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":393.29,"endTime":396.43,"body":"lithium ion product, which was"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":396.43,"endTime":402.15,"body":"both safer and could also manage"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":396.43,"endTime":402.15,"body":"a, a much larger number of cycles."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":402.805,"endTime":406.525,"body":"So the number of charge discharge"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":402.805,"endTime":406.525,"body":"cycles you can do before"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":406.525,"endTime":407.725,"body":"it reaches its end of life."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":408.345,"endTime":411.615,"body":"Now, putting that in perspective, I'm"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":408.345,"endTime":411.615,"body":"sure your listeners are very familiar with"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":411.615,"endTime":417.815,"body":"their phones, and your phones do about 500"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":411.615,"endTime":417.815,"body":"to 700 cycles before they reach their 80%."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":418.515,"endTime":418.635,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":419.13,"endTime":420.43,"body":"Of their initial capacity."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":420.53,"endTime":424.07,"body":"And 80% is typically what's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":420.53,"endTime":424.07,"body":"referred to as the end of life."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":424.77,"endTime":426.96,"body":"Automotive batteries,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":424.77,"endTime":426.96,"body":"they're a little bit better."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":426.96,"endTime":431.44,"body":"Maybe they're getting a thousand"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":426.96,"endTime":431.44,"body":"to 2000 cycles, 2000 rare,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":431.82,"endTime":432.92,"body":"but that's sort of the range."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":433.57,"endTime":439.266,"body":"The batteries that Electrovaya developed"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":433.57,"endTime":439.266,"body":"are getting about nine to 10,000 cycles,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":439.606,"endTime":444.586,"body":"so four or five times the cycle life"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":439.606,"endTime":444.586,"body":"of typical lithium-ion batteries."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":445.046,"endTime":449.878,"body":"And so we said, okay, we've got this"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":445.046,"endTime":449.878,"body":"very unique technology here,  but"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":449.878,"endTime":451.295,"body":"it's always gonna be more expensive."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":451.305,"endTime":455.175,"body":"We're smaller than the big Korean"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":451.305,"endTime":455.175,"body":"and Chinese battery companies."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":455.185,"endTime":459.015,"body":"Let's not go head to head anymore"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":455.185,"endTime":459.015,"body":"or we won't be in business."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":459.635,"endTime":464.175,"body":"And so we, we looked for applications"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":459.635,"endTime":464.175,"body":"which could take advantage of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":464.175,"endTime":467.175,"body":"that type of performance and"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":464.175,"endTime":467.175,"body":"pay, pay a bit more for it."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":467.795,"endTime":471.151,"body":"And we focused our efforts"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":467.795,"endTime":471.151,"body":"initially on material handling."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":471.211,"endTime":475.321,"body":"So this is your, your warehousing"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":471.211,"endTime":475.321,"body":"applications, things that happen"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":475.341,"endTime":480.081,"body":"behind doors, but these are"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":475.341,"endTime":480.081,"body":"vehicles that are operating 24 7."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":480.811,"endTime":484.901,"body":"Sometimes they're quite quite"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":480.811,"endTime":484.901,"body":"often being used for three shifts."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":485.511,"endTime":489.931,"body":"The typical operations actually"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":485.511,"endTime":489.931,"body":"would have battery swapping in their,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":490.071,"endTime":493.571,"body":"in their operations, they would"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":490.071,"endTime":493.571,"body":"typically swap batteries every shift"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":493.776,"endTime":496.876,"body":"when you say, just clarify,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":493.776,"endTime":496.876,"body":"Raj, when you say material handling,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":496.876,"endTime":498.236,"body":"you're talking forklifts, right?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":499.541,"endTime":500.871,"body":"Primarily forklifts."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":500.931,"endTime":506.391,"body":"That's, that's grown to forklifts"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":500.931,"endTime":506.391,"body":"and robots to quite a high degree."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":506.391,"endTime":509.191,"body":"And now the forklifts themselves"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":506.391,"endTime":509.191,"body":"are turning into robots."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":509.251,"endTime":514.001,"body":"So there's a great deal of transition"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":509.251,"endTime":514.001,"body":"occurring in that sector which is"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":514.001,"endTime":518.471,"body":"also growing tremendously due to,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":514.001,"endTime":518.471,"body":"to everyone ordering everything"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":518.471,"endTime":521.236,"body":"from groceries to diapers online."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":521.576,"endTime":526.02,"body":"So,  that's what we uh, made"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":521.576,"endTime":526.02,"body":"as our initial focus because"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":526.08,"endTime":528.26,"body":"of that heavy duty cycle."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":529.05,"endTime":531.74,"body":"Also, the fact that these are"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":529.05,"endTime":531.74,"body":"vehicles that operate indoors."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":531.895,"endTime":532.185,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":532.84,"endTime":538.11,"body":"So if you go to a"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":532.84,"endTime":538.11,"body":"typical e-commerce company or Walmart"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":539.32,"endTime":543.76,"body":"distribution center, you'll see that they"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":539.32,"endTime":543.76,"body":"will have maybe hundreds, hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":543.76,"endTime":545.72,"body":"vehicles operating in these warehouses."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":546.5,"endTime":550.83,"body":"And these warehouses have fire"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":546.5,"endTime":550.83,"body":"sensitive materials, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":550.83,"endTime":554.773,"body":"So they cannot tolerate"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":550.83,"endTime":554.773,"body":"any sort of safety issue."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":555.353,"endTime":560.013,"body":"And not to say safety issues should be"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":555.353,"endTime":560.013,"body":"tolerated anywhere, it's, it's a, it's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":560.013,"endTime":563.993,"body":"a greatly different scenario, having"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":560.013,"endTime":563.993,"body":"something inside a building, then outside."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":564.293,"endTime":566.713,"body":"So, so that's what we focused on."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":566.733,"endTime":568.793,"body":"We, we have been successful there."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":568.793,"endTime":575.023,"body":"Electrovaya is now supplying I think about"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":568.793,"endTime":575.023,"body":"12 fortune 100 companies today, including"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":575.083,"endTime":577.583,"body":"the largest retailers in the world."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":578.283,"endTime":583.943,"body":"And they see the, fundamentally, the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":578.283,"endTime":583.943,"body":"reason they want this technology is it"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":583.943,"endTime":587.343,"body":"provides them a lower lifecycle cost."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":588.503,"endTime":591.243,"body":"And if it's providing them a"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":588.503,"endTime":591.243,"body":"lower lifecycle cost, that's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":591.243,"endTime":592.923,"body":"because it's, it's lasting longer."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":593.663,"endTime":596.863,"body":"It can handle the high duty"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":593.663,"endTime":596.863,"body":"cycles without degrading."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":597.513,"endTime":600.75,"body":"It also has a higher"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":597.513,"endTime":600.75,"body":"impact on the environment."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":600.78,"endTime":605.553,"body":"Because this this a battery that"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":600.78,"endTime":605.553,"body":"doesn't degrade, if putting it in"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":605.553,"endTime":607.473,"body":"comparison to an electric vehicle."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":607.533,"endTime":610.073,"body":"And Tom, I know you"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":607.533,"endTime":610.073,"body":"drive one, I drive one."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":611.483,"endTime":616.163,"body":"We commute in these vehicles,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":611.483,"endTime":616.163,"body":"but they spend most of the time"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":616.163,"endTime":621.203,"body":"parked maybe in my case, probably"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":616.163,"endTime":621.203,"body":"23 out of 24 hours it's parked."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":622.103,"endTime":625.883,"body":"And if you compare that to a"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":622.103,"endTime":625.883,"body":"material handling vehicle, 23"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":626.103,"endTime":628.043,"body":"out of 24 hours, it's moving."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":628.863,"endTime":633.883,"body":"And so it's a huge amount"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":628.863,"endTime":633.883,"body":"of higher utilization."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":634.343,"endTime":637.883,"body":"And as a result, if you're electrifying"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":634.343,"endTime":637.883,"body":"something, which would've otherwise"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":637.993,"endTime":644.551,"body":"been, powered by an IC engine, your"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":637.993,"endTime":644.551,"body":"impact is substantially better than"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":644.851,"endTime":646.951,"body":"if you're converting a passenger EV."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":647.481,"endTime":650.428,"body":"And even if you're converting"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":647.481,"endTime":650.428,"body":"a vehicle, which would be"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":650.428,"endTime":651.868,"body":"powered by lead acid batteries."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":651.978,"endTime":656.588,"body":"Lead acid batteries are very inefficient"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":651.978,"endTime":656.588,"body":"compared to lithium ion batteries."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":657.088,"endTime":660.208,"body":"You're also having a"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":657.088,"endTime":660.208,"body":"significant GHG impact."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":660.308,"endTime":664.728,"body":"So every battery that Electrovaya"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":660.308,"endTime":664.728,"body":"is making is, a, not going to the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":664.888,"endTime":668.848,"body":"landfill for a very, very long time, or"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":664.888,"endTime":668.848,"body":"recycling for a very, very long time."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":669.428,"endTime":674.488,"body":"And B, it's having a tremendous impact"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":669.428,"endTime":674.488,"body":"just through its operations, just"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":674.488,"endTime":679.368,"body":"through the extensive utilization of the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":674.488,"endTime":679.368,"body":"batteries in those, in those environments."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":680.148,"endTime":685.858,"body":"So, so that's what we've gotten our start"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":680.148,"endTime":685.858,"body":"on which is the material handling sector."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":685.958,"endTime":687.738,"body":"And we're growing rapidly there."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":687.828,"endTime":691.978,"body":"We're partnered with the largest OEM in"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":687.828,"endTime":691.978,"body":"the sector, which is the Toyota group."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":692.703,"endTime":695.363,"body":"But we see opportunities"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":692.703,"endTime":695.363,"body":"elsewhere as, as well."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":695.623,"endTime":700.88,"body":"So, electric buses is a sector"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":695.623,"endTime":700.88,"body":"where we're actively pursuing."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":701.45,"endTime":705.98,"body":"Mining trucks is another one that is"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":701.45,"endTime":705.98,"body":"come to mind recently, that is also"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":706.3,"endTime":709.34,"body":"a 22 hour per day type operation."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":710.16,"endTime":711.79,"body":"And there are a few others as well."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":711.85,"endTime":716.07,"body":"So we're, we're really targeting"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":711.85,"endTime":716.07,"body":"only the super high duty cycle"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":716.765,"endTime":718.615,"body":"sectors, but there are lots of them."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":718.645,"endTime":719.615,"body":"They're drawing quickly."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":720.435,"endTime":724.335,"body":"The electrification movement"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":720.435,"endTime":724.335,"body":"overall is, is unstoppable."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":724.75,"endTime":725.52,"body":"Yeah, no doubt."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":725.58,"endTime":725.96,"body":"No doubt."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":726.99,"endTime":731.6,"body":"It's, I mean, it's fantastic that you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":726.99,"endTime":731.6,"body":"have batteries that last four to five"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":731.6,"endTime":734.52,"body":"times longer than typical EV batteries."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":735.14,"endTime":736.75,"body":"What, what's missing from that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":736.91,"endTime":739.47,"body":"I don't know is the energy density."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":739.89,"endTime":743.91,"body":"How do your batteries compare in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":739.89,"endTime":743.91,"body":"energy density to the likes of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":744.54,"endTime":749.67,"body":"lithium ion batteries, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":744.54,"endTime":749.67,"body":"lithium, iron, phosphate, or whatever"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":749.67,"endTime":751.59,"body":"other chemistries are out there."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":753.87,"endTime":755.57,"body":"So that, that's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":753.87,"endTime":755.57,"body":"a great, great question."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":755.59,"endTime":759.49,"body":"And and there are chemistries"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":755.59,"endTime":759.49,"body":"out there that do get cycle life,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":787.0,"endTime":790.995,"body":"like Electrovaya's technology, and"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":787.0,"endTime":790.995,"body":"that would be lithium titanate."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":791.3950000000001,"endTime":796.3950000000001,"body":"However, that technology gets less"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":791.3950000000001,"endTime":796.3950000000001,"body":"than half the energy density, and as"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":796.4350000000001,"endTime":799.075,"body":"a result, it becomes cost prohibitive."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":800.1300000000001,"endTime":803.1500000000001,"body":"And may not even have the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":800.1300000000001,"endTime":803.1500000000001,"body":"performance attributes to make"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":803.1500000000001,"endTime":804.5500000000001,"body":"certain applications viable."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":805.33,"endTime":808.6700000000001,"body":"In our case, our technology"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":805.33,"endTime":808.6700000000001,"body":"is really that platform."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":808.7,"endTime":813.11,"body":"It's really the separator is"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":808.7,"endTime":813.11,"body":"the main piece, but also the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":813.62,"endTime":820.71,"body":"electrolyte and some nuances in the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":813.62,"endTime":820.71,"body":"assembly process, which makes this"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":820.99,"endTime":822.35,"body":"ultimately a platform technology."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":822.61,"endTime":829.1450000000001,"body":"We can apply it to any cathode, any"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":822.61,"endTime":829.1450000000001,"body":"anode, and get the same, get a benefit"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":829.2950000000001,"endTime":834.7850000000001,"body":"with re with respect to the longevity"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":829.2950000000001,"endTime":834.7850000000001,"body":"and a benefit with respect to safety."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":835.4050000000001,"endTime":840.4250000000001,"body":"So what we're produced right now"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":835.4050000000001,"endTime":840.4250000000001,"body":"is an NMC, graphite based cell."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":841.0250000000001,"endTime":847.0550000000001,"body":"And we focussed on NMC primarily"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":841.0250000000001,"endTime":847.0550000000001,"body":"because our benefits get more"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":847.085,"endTime":848.8950000000001,"body":"accentuated with that chemistry."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":849.3950000000001,"endTime":855.0550000000001,"body":"So that chemistry is the highest, one"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":849.3950000000001,"endTime":855.0550000000001,"body":"of the higher energy density chemistries"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":855.1550000000001,"endTime":860.0150000000001,"body":"out there, which is why it's utilized"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":855.1550000000001,"endTime":860.0150000000001,"body":"in most of the EV applications."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":860.205,"endTime":860.495,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":861.855,"endTime":866.815,"body":"However, it to its detriment"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":861.855,"endTime":866.815,"body":"is, is cycle life and safety, right?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":866.9150000000001,"endTime":870.9050000000001,"body":"So, and we, we fix those two"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":866.9150000000001,"endTime":870.9050000000001,"body":"items with, with our technology."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":871.8050000000001,"endTime":875.9050000000001,"body":"So in terms of the Electrovaya's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":871.8050000000001,"endTime":875.9050000000001,"body":"energy density, it is comparable"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":875.9050000000001,"endTime":879.065,"body":"to any of the other NMC producers."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":879.565,"endTime":883.9050000000001,"body":"The only slight difference is we are"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":879.565,"endTime":883.9050000000001,"body":"using ceramic separators, which are a"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":883.9050000000001,"endTime":892.1500000000001,"body":"bit heavier but the ultimate difference"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":883.9050000000001,"endTime":892.1500000000001,"body":"is maybe 10, 15% in density maximum."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":892.33,"endTime":894.07,"body":"So it's not a big difference."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":894.726,"endTime":895.0160000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":895.836,"endTime":900.176,"body":"It occurs to me as well that another"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":895.836,"endTime":900.176,"body":"potential use would be for the likes of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":900.6260000000001,"endTime":906.3100000000001,"body":"stationary storage for grids, because"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":900.6260000000001,"endTime":906.3100000000001,"body":"again, those kind of batteries are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":906.3100000000001,"endTime":911.815,"body":"gonna need  lots of cycles because"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":906.3100000000001,"endTime":911.815,"body":"they'll be constantly taking in and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":911.815,"endTime":917.9680000000001,"body":"giving out energy to compensate for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":911.815,"endTime":917.9680000000001,"body":"the variability in production of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":917.9680000000001,"endTime":920.4480000000001,"body":"energy from renewables, for example."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":921.0680000000001,"endTime":926.128,"body":"And if they're doing you know, grid"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":921.0680000000001,"endTime":926.128,"body":"services, frequency on, on grids,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":926.128,"endTime":928.9280000000001,"body":"then yeah, they'll be charging"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":926.128,"endTime":928.9280000000001,"body":"and discharging the whole time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":929.0680000000001,"endTime":933.128,"body":"Is that, is that a, a vertical"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":929.0680000000001,"endTime":933.128,"body":"that you're looking into as well?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":934.998,"endTime":936.8180000000001,"body":"You, you make"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":934.998,"endTime":936.8180000000001,"body":"a very good point, Tom."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":936.8380000000001,"endTime":939.298,"body":"So that vertical, you're correct."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":939.918,"endTime":945.028,"body":"The more it's used, the higher the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":939.918,"endTime":945.028,"body":"cycle count, the more useful it is for"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":945.028,"endTime":951.028,"body":"energy storage and and the more, more"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":945.028,"endTime":951.028,"body":"income the the site operators will get."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":951.028,"endTime":951.3480000000001,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":951.528,"endTime":955.918,"body":"So, Technically they need a"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":951.528,"endTime":955.918,"body":"technology which cycles as long as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":955.918,"endTime":956.3580000000001,"body":"possible"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":956.3580000000001,"endTime":956.908,"body":"And is safe."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":956.9780000000001,"endTime":957.638,"body":"And is safe."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":957.8180000000001,"endTime":964.1980000000001,"body":"So, that said if you look at the,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":957.8180000000001,"endTime":964.1980000000001,"body":"at least the grid scale sites for"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":964.1980000000001,"endTime":969.918,"body":"the last 10, 15 years, most of them"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":964.1980000000001,"endTime":969.918,"body":"have been built by developers who are"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":970.158,"endTime":976.488,"body":"responding to RFPs from, from from"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":970.158,"endTime":976.488,"body":"the local constituencies or, or ISOs."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":977.653,"endTime":985.113,"body":"And they tend to go to lower lowest"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":977.653,"endTime":985.113,"body":"CapEx capital cost solutions as opposed"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":985.133,"endTime":987.793,"body":"to lowest lifecycle cost solutions."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":988.523,"endTime":992.1930000000001,"body":"Which is unfortunate because"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":988.523,"endTime":992.1930000000001,"body":"the lifecycle is really what"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":992.1930000000001,"endTime":993.493,"body":"the co is really what matters."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":994.3960000000001,"endTime":998.8660000000001,"body":"We're seeing that mentality start"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":994.3960000000001,"endTime":998.8660000000001,"body":"to shift if, and, and that's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":999.2460000000001,"endTime":1002.5110000000001,"body":"due to, due to lessons learned."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1003.3710000000001,"endTime":1009.061,"body":"So if you, if you walk into some of the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1003.3710000000001,"endTime":1009.061,"body":"big battery recycling sites there's a,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1009.061,"endTime":1014.9910000000001,"body":"there's a great Canadian company Canada,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1009.061,"endTime":1014.9910000000001,"body":"US Company called Lifecycle and I think"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1014.9910000000001,"endTime":1016.9910000000001,"body":"they have operations in, in Europe too."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1017.7810000000001,"endTime":1020.9910000000001,"body":"They, if you walk into one of their"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1017.7810000000001,"endTime":1020.9910000000001,"body":"sites, the most, most batteries"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1020.9910000000001,"endTime":1024.181,"body":"you'll see that are getting recycled"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1020.9910000000001,"endTime":1024.181,"body":"are these grid scale batteries."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1024.591,"endTime":1028.856,"body":"They're reaching their"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1024.591,"endTime":1028.856,"body":"end-of-life much earlier  than"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1028.996,"endTime":1030.686,"body":"than the developers had thought."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1031.2259999999999,"endTime":1035.366,"body":"And that's because they're putting an"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1031.2259999999999,"endTime":1035.366,"body":"automotive battery into energy storage."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1035.946,"endTime":1040.766,"body":"And an automotive battery, you're"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1035.946,"endTime":1040.766,"body":"doing one cycle a week energy storage,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1040.766,"endTime":1042.206,"body":"you're doing one cycle per day."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1042.356,"endTime":1048.541,"body":"It's a nearly in order of magnitude"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1042.356,"endTime":1048.541,"body":"difference in utilization and that's,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1048.541,"endTime":1050.001,"body":"that's what's ending up happening."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1050.021,"endTime":1056.711,"body":"So now we're starting to look at that"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1050.021,"endTime":1056.711,"body":"application in, in more with more focus."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1056.921,"endTime":1062.711,"body":"Again, we're a business, so we"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1056.921,"endTime":1062.711,"body":"wanna sell our currently limited"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1062.721,"endTime":1067.511,"body":"production to the highest costs sale"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1062.721,"endTime":1067.511,"body":"potential and energy storage hasn't"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1067.511,"endTime":1072.3110000000001,"body":"been there, but we believe that's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1067.511,"endTime":1072.3110000000001,"body":"going to change in the coming years."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1072.371,"endTime":1075.3110000000001,"body":"So we're looking at, we're currently"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1072.371,"endTime":1075.3110000000001,"body":"actively looking at projects in"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1075.3110000000001,"endTime":1080.481,"body":"2020, that would require delivering"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1075.3110000000001,"endTime":1080.481,"body":"2027, 2026, that kind of time period."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1081.101,"endTime":1081.711,"body":"Okay, cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1082.451,"endTime":1089.521,"body":"And you know, what is your I wanna"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1082.451,"endTime":1089.521,"body":"say go to market strategy, as in seems"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1089.521,"endTime":1093.0410000000002,"body":"like your technology is phenomenal."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1094.531,"endTime":1101.171,"body":"Loads of cycles, compatible or similar"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1094.531,"endTime":1101.171,"body":"energy density significantly safer."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1101.751,"endTime":1101.971,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1103.606,"endTime":1109.866,"body":"if you could scale this up through"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1103.606,"endTime":1109.866,"body":"partnerships, through licensing, through"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1110.226,"endTime":1115.4660000000001,"body":"whatever would is, is that a path you're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1110.226,"endTime":1115.4660000000001,"body":"planning to follow to try and scale up?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1115.526,"endTime":1117.746,"body":"Or are you just doing it all internally?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1119.423,"endTime":1124.843,"body":"So what we're, what we're"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1119.423,"endTime":1124.843,"body":"seeing is the heavy duty space, the heavy"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1124.843,"endTime":1130.313,"body":"duty market space, which especially if"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1124.843,"endTime":1130.313,"body":"you just look at let's look at some of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1130.313,"endTime":1135.203,"body":"these key sectors, material handling,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1130.313,"endTime":1135.203,"body":"buses in Europe is, is definitely ahead."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1135.5230000000001,"endTime":1138.863,"body":"I just came back from London and"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1135.5230000000001,"endTime":1138.863,"body":"a good percentage of the buses"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1138.963,"endTime":1140.343,"body":"are already electrified there."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1140.403,"endTime":1142.903,"body":"But here, that's still nascent."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1143.223,"endTime":1146.613,"body":"Trucking is definitely, we're"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1143.223,"endTime":1146.613,"body":"just scratching the surface."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1146.613,"endTime":1148.223,"body":"Mining trucks I think is almost none."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1148.723,"endTime":1155.343,"body":"So what we're seeing is huge growth"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1148.723,"endTime":1155.343,"body":"potential in the heavy duty space because"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1155.343,"endTime":1157.183,"body":"they all, it all has to be electrified."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1157.593,"endTime":1164.083,"body":"Heavy duty industries are gonna"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1157.593,"endTime":1164.083,"body":"have a higher GHG impact than per"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1164.113,"endTime":1168.123,"body":"unit, right, per vehicle or per unit"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1164.113,"endTime":1168.123,"body":"kilowatt hour than a, than a car."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1169.0230000000001,"endTime":1172.5230000000001,"body":"But they're a little further behind on,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1169.0230000000001,"endTime":1172.5230000000001,"body":"on the electrification for the most part."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1173.693,"endTime":1175.473,"body":"So, we're not too late."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1175.573,"endTime":1177.833,"body":"So we're, we're building"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1175.573,"endTime":1177.833,"body":"up capacity right now."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1178.083,"endTime":1183.585,"body":"We're building a giga scale plant"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1178.083,"endTime":1183.585,"body":"in New York State, not, not too far"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1183.585,"endTime":1185.825,"body":"from where I'm right now in Toronto."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1186.885,"endTime":1190.535,"body":"And that's going to provide"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1186.885,"endTime":1190.535,"body":"a lot of the capacity growth"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1190.535,"endTime":1192.191,"body":"that we see in the near term."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1193.0910000000001,"endTime":1199.421,"body":"In terms of partnerships, this is a this"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1193.0910000000001,"endTime":1199.421,"body":"technology while we, we figured it out"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1199.761,"endTime":1206.2060000000001,"body":"and we've, we have lots of IP around"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1199.761,"endTime":1206.2060000000001,"body":"it, it's the big battery companies"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1206.306,"endTime":1209.766,"body":"are more, to be honest, more focused"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1206.306,"endTime":1209.766,"body":"on the car market 'cause that's where"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1209.826,"endTime":1212.406,"body":"the, that's the, the largest market."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1212.826,"endTime":1217.1860000000001,"body":"And that market is requiring"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1212.826,"endTime":1217.1860000000001,"body":"different requiring a different"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1217.1860000000001,"endTime":1218.106,"body":"technology ultimately."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1218.106,"endTime":1222.866,"body":"So it requires high energy density"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1218.106,"endTime":1222.866,"body":"and low cost, and the margins are"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1223.096,"endTime":1225.826,"body":"very, very tight in, in that market."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1226.796,"endTime":1229.9360000000001,"body":"And that's not what we, we've"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1226.796,"endTime":1229.9360000000001,"body":"participated in that before."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1230.476,"endTime":1231.766,"body":"It's very, very tough."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1232.156,"endTime":1234.1660000000002,"body":"It's whoever succeeds."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1234.306,"endTime":1234.836,"body":"Well done."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1235.1760000000002,"endTime":1238.586,"body":"But we, we Electrovaya is now"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1235.1760000000002,"endTime":1238.586,"body":"a profitable battery company."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1238.646,"endTime":1242.826,"body":"We, we've now done two quarters"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1238.646,"endTime":1242.826,"body":"back to back making that profits."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1243.366,"endTime":1248.006,"body":"We want to be a a profitable,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1243.366,"endTime":1248.006,"body":"healthy business going forward."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1248.586,"endTime":1252.406,"body":"And if you want to get into the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1248.586,"endTime":1252.406,"body":"automotive space right now, you have to"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1252.406,"endTime":1256.766,"body":"be prepared to lose a lot of money before"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1252.406,"endTime":1256.766,"body":"you eventually it you, you break even."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1257.6660000000002,"endTime":1263.316,"body":"And so our go-to market strategy"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1257.6660000000002,"endTime":1263.316,"body":"for the most part is just grow the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1263.316,"endTime":1267.476,"body":"company as quickly as possibly,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1263.316,"endTime":1267.476,"body":"but in a, in a profitable manner."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1268.2060000000001,"endTime":1269.6660000000002,"body":"And with the market."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1269.9260000000002,"endTime":1271.106,"body":"We don't wanna be ahead of the market."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1271.2060000000001,"endTime":1272.4260000000002,"body":"We wanna be with the market."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1272.886,"endTime":1278.4360000000001,"body":"And I think with all businesses I"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1272.886,"endTime":1278.4360000000001,"body":"think there's a, a certain degree of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1278.986,"endTime":1281.356,"body":"luck and timing that goes with it."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1281.4160000000002,"endTime":1284.4560000000001,"body":"And I think  that wind"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1281.4160000000002,"endTime":1284.4560000000001,"body":"is with us this time."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1284.856,"endTime":1289.576,"body":"Electrovaya has historically been ahead"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1284.856,"endTime":1289.576,"body":"of the market with with technologies."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1289.786,"endTime":1290.376,"body":"Right now."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1290.386,"endTime":1294.156,"body":"We're hitting this one right"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1290.386,"endTime":1294.156,"body":"when it's in its growth curve."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1294.856,"endTime":1300.656,"body":"So, so, I think it's, it's a matter of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1294.856,"endTime":1300.656,"body":"execution, which we have a very smart"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1300.656,"endTime":1302.576,"body":"and able team here at the company."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1303.276,"endTime":1304.616,"body":"So I'm, I'm optimistic."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1305.781,"endTime":1310.835,"body":"Where we see opportunities in terms"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1305.781,"endTime":1310.835,"body":"of partnerships though, that's next"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1310.845,"endTime":1312.515,"body":"generation battery technologies."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1312.9750000000001,"endTime":1317.755,"body":"So we have a, a separate team"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1312.9750000000001,"endTime":1317.755,"body":"at the company working under"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1317.755,"endTime":1321.315,"body":"the banner of Electrovaya Labs,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1317.755,"endTime":1321.315,"body":"actually in a separate building."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1321.9750000000001,"endTime":1326.1950000000002,"body":"And there they're working on"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1321.9750000000001,"endTime":1326.1950000000002,"body":"ceramic separators, but not the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1326.1950000000002,"endTime":1327.275,"body":"ones that we're currently using."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1327.275,"endTime":1331.595,"body":"They're, they're working on ceramic"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1327.275,"endTime":1331.595,"body":"separators for solid state batteries."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1331.6000000000001,"endTime":1331.8,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1333.42,"endTime":1337.26,"body":"And where we see if"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1333.42,"endTime":1337.26,"body":"we're successful with developing that"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1337.26,"endTime":1342.7,"body":"technology, that the scale of which"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1337.26,"endTime":1342.7,"body":"is much higher in potential demand."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1342.72,"endTime":1346.74,"body":"And that's where we would definitely look"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1342.72,"endTime":1346.74,"body":"to, to partner with, with other companies."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1347.21,"endTime":1347.8600000000001,"body":"Sure, sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1347.8600000000001,"endTime":1351.06,"body":"Because that was gonna be my"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1347.8600000000001,"endTime":1351.06,"body":"next question around solid state"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1351.3,"endTime":1355.26,"body":"batteries, because we're starting to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1351.3,"endTime":1355.26,"body":"see more announcements about solid"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1355.26,"endTime":1356.8200000000002,"body":"state batteries coming to market."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1357.0800000000002,"endTime":1360.596,"body":"So my question was gonna be, is it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1357.0800000000002,"endTime":1360.596,"body":"gonna, is it something that you're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1360.596,"endTime":1365.63,"body":"looking at, and obviously it is,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1360.596,"endTime":1365.63,"body":"when do you see that becoming a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1365.63,"endTime":1367.15,"body":"product that that reaches scale?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1369.425,"endTime":1371.285,"body":"So a solid state battery."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1371.395,"endTime":1376.375,"body":"Just, just giving your viewers a idea"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1371.395,"endTime":1376.375,"body":"of what, what it is, is essentially"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1376.795,"endTime":1382.4550000000002,"body":"you're trying to remove two large"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1376.795,"endTime":1382.4550000000002,"body":"parts of the lithium ion battery."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1382.555,"endTime":1388.175,"body":"And that's the liquid electrolyte,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1382.555,"endTime":1388.175,"body":"remove it entirely or vast"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1388.535,"endTime":1391.2150000000001,"body":"majority of which, and the anode."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1391.2150000000001,"endTime":1393.375,"body":"The anode is currently graphite."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1393.435,"endTime":1398.79,"body":"If you remove it, you, you could use"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1393.435,"endTime":1398.79,"body":"lithium metal, which would have a"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1399.38,"endTime":1401.39,"body":"significantly higher energy density."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1402.01,"endTime":1407.43,"body":"So the outcome, the targeted outcome"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1402.01,"endTime":1407.43,"body":"for all, all these players who are"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1407.43,"endTime":1413.23,"body":"seeking the holy grail of battery"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1407.43,"endTime":1413.23,"body":"technology is, is a battery which is"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1413.23,"endTime":1418.56,"body":"effectively double the energy density of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1413.23,"endTime":1418.56,"body":"your current automotive grade battery."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1418.7,"endTime":1421.7530000000002,"body":"So it's a, It's a game"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1418.7,"endTime":1421.7530000000002,"body":"changing battery technology."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1422.133,"endTime":1427.353,"body":"It would double the range of your EVs or"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1422.133,"endTime":1427.353,"body":"half the weight of your battery systems."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1427.5430000000001,"endTime":1428.633,"body":"It's, it's very attractive."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1429.356,"endTime":1434.256,"body":"To date, no one has commercialized solid"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1429.356,"endTime":1434.256,"body":"state batteries to any degree, and there"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1434.256,"endTime":1436.306,"body":"are challenges with the technology."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1436.9660000000001,"endTime":1442.986,"body":"The technology for the most part is"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1436.9660000000001,"endTime":1442.986,"body":"going to rely on a ceramic separator."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1444.0910000000001,"endTime":1448.5710000000001,"body":"'Cause that separator now has"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1444.0910000000001,"endTime":1448.5710000000001,"body":"to operate as the electrolyte."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1449.165,"endTime":1452.775,"body":"Most of the industry and most of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1449.165,"endTime":1452.775,"body":"the research sphere is going the way"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1452.775,"endTime":1457.535,"body":"of ceramics as opposed to polymers"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1452.775,"endTime":1457.535,"body":"because it has higher conductivity."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1458.155,"endTime":1463.435,"body":"And if you've heard the last 20 minutes"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1458.155,"endTime":1463.435,"body":"of our conversation, Electrovaya"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1463.4550000000002,"endTime":1469.165,"body":"is a company that has successfully"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1463.4550000000002,"endTime":1469.165,"body":"commercialized a ceramic separator before."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1470.185,"endTime":1474.9750000000001,"body":"We're the only company that I know of that"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1470.185,"endTime":1474.9750000000001,"body":"is using ceramic separators like that."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1475.675,"endTime":1480.615,"body":"And so the, we're optimistic our"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1475.675,"endTime":1480.615,"body":"approach here can leverage some of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1480.615,"endTime":1483.855,"body":"those lessons that we've developed"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1480.615,"endTime":1483.855,"body":"over the, over the last 10 years."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1485.73,"endTime":1487.55,"body":"So, that's what we're working on."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1487.68,"endTime":1490.67,"body":"We're not ready, it's not"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1487.68,"endTime":1490.67,"body":"ready to be commercialized yet."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1491.0900000000001,"endTime":1495.29,"body":"I can't say with, with r R\u0026D it's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1491.0900000000001,"endTime":1495.29,"body":"very hard to say, oh, we're gonna be"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1495.3500000000001,"endTime":1498.0900000000001,"body":"in production on such and such a day."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1498.6100000000001,"endTime":1501.55,"body":"I know there have been companies"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1498.6100000000001,"endTime":1501.55,"body":"that have made some of those claims"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1501.69,"endTime":1503.24,"body":"and maybe they're, they're ahead."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1503.74,"endTime":1505.16,"body":"But that's where we are."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1505.17,"endTime":1509.7450000000001,"body":"Right now we're targeting sampling"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1505.17,"endTime":1509.7450000000001,"body":"cells, though in a few months."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1509.9550000000002,"endTime":1510.2450000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1510.355,"endTime":1511.165,"body":"Cool, cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1511.865,"endTime":1516.7150000000001,"body":"And in terms of your current"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1511.865,"endTime":1516.7150000000001,"body":"customers, do you have any kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1516.7150000000001,"endTime":1518.515,"body":"case studies that you can speak to?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1518.615,"endTime":1523.4750000000001,"body":"Any kind of successes or wins you can talk"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1518.615,"endTime":1523.4750000000001,"body":"to in terms of, you know, we were using"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1523.905,"endTime":1529.805,"body":"this type of battery or this type of power"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1523.905,"endTime":1529.805,"body":"source for our material handling units."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1530.2250000000001,"endTime":1534.525,"body":"Up until now, we switched to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1530.2250000000001,"endTime":1534.525,"body":"Electrovaya, and now we're X percent"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1534.555,"endTime":1538.085,"body":"more efficient, y percent less"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1534.555,"endTime":1538.085,"body":"greenhouse gases, whatever it is."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1539.43,"endTime":1540.29,"body":"Oh, a good one."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1540.3400000000001,"endTime":1543.23,"body":"Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll think of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1540.3400000000001,"endTime":1543.23,"body":"one, which was actually one of the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1543.23,"endTime":1547.693,"body":"early customers, which was Walmart,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1543.23,"endTime":1547.693,"body":"who effectively saved Electrovaya."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1547.713,"endTime":1552.03,"body":"It was a time the company"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1547.713,"endTime":1552.03,"body":"was, was a bit on the rocks."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1552.4660000000001,"endTime":1556.6860000000001,"body":"2018, we just closed down a lot of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1552.4660000000001,"endTime":1556.6860000000001,"body":"our German operations and we had a"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1556.6860000000001,"endTime":1559.506,"body":"lot of losses to deal with from that."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1560.126,"endTime":1562.386,"body":"But they, they really"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1560.126,"endTime":1562.386,"body":"liked the technology."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1563.403,"endTime":1568.073,"body":"We demonstrated it at a number of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1563.403,"endTime":1568.073,"body":"distribution centers in, in the US"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1568.133,"endTime":1572.163,"body":"and Canada, and then they selected"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1568.133,"endTime":1572.163,"body":"it for one of them in Canada."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1573.073,"endTime":1578.983,"body":"And so what we ended up converting was"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1573.073,"endTime":1578.983,"body":"a site which had approximately 150 of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1578.983,"endTime":1580.703,"body":"these vehicles, these forklift vehicles."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1580.9930000000002,"endTime":1584.1180000000002,"body":"These are not small electric vehicles."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1584.4180000000001,"endTime":1589.8780000000002,"body":"The average capacity on, on one of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1584.4180000000001,"endTime":1589.8780000000002,"body":"these was about 30 to 40 kilowatt"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1589.8780000000002,"endTime":1597.3680000000002,"body":"hours, and they would be having three"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1589.8780000000002,"endTime":1597.3680000000002,"body":"lead acid batteries per vehicle."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1597.568,"endTime":1597.858,"body":"Whoa."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1598.468,"endTime":1603.4550000000002,"body":"So you can imagine"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1598.468,"endTime":1603.4550000000002,"body":"a building with let's say 150"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1604.2350000000001,"endTime":1608.69,"body":"vehicles and 400 and 50 batteries"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1609.71,"endTime":1614.76,"body":"And they would be swapping these out"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1609.71,"endTime":1614.76,"body":"with giant magnetic swapping stations"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1615.5700000000002,"endTime":1620.6000000000001,"body":"which lifting 2000 pound batteries in"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1615.5700000000002,"endTime":1620.6000000000001,"body":"and out of, out of vehicles every shift."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1620.8200000000002,"endTime":1621.1100000000001,"body":"Whoa."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1621.3700000000001,"endTime":1624.6000000000001,"body":"you'd picture a lineup"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1621.3700000000001,"endTime":1624.6000000000001,"body":"of vehicles at the shift change,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1624.94,"endTime":1628.76,"body":"trying to get their, their batteries"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1624.94,"endTime":1628.76,"body":"changed so the next shift could"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1628.9450000000002,"endTime":1630.935,"body":"start with a fresh, fresh battery."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1631.275,"endTime":1635.575,"body":"So the reason they had three batteries"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1631.275,"endTime":1635.575,"body":"per vehicle is they had one driving the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1635.575,"endTime":1640.2350000000001,"body":"vehicle, obviously one ready to go, and"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1635.575,"endTime":1640.2350000000001,"body":"the third one would be getting charged."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1640.2350000000001,"endTime":1640.4750000000001,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1641.005,"endTime":1645.105,"body":"So we went in and we pl we"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1641.005,"endTime":1645.105,"body":"came in with our technology, we said, you"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1645.105,"endTime":1646.865,"body":"know, you can use Electrovaya's battery."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1647.635,"endTime":1652.025,"body":"It'll charge because it's got such long"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1647.635,"endTime":1652.025,"body":"cycle life and And the way we design"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1652.045,"endTime":1657.1950000000002,"body":"the battery, you could charge very"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1652.045,"endTime":1657.1950000000002,"body":"quickly so we could replace a whole"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1657.265,"endTime":1659.555,"body":"shift's worth of use in 20 minutes."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1661.045,"endTime":1665.355,"body":"So very fast charge because the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1661.045,"endTime":1665.355,"body":"longevity is, is there, they don't"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1665.355,"endTime":1667.2350000000001,"body":"need to replace the batteries."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1667.815,"endTime":1670.595,"body":"And so we went with one battery"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1667.815,"endTime":1670.595,"body":"per truck instead of three."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1671.8200000000002,"endTime":1676.8400000000001,"body":"And one other piece before I get go"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1671.8200000000002,"endTime":1676.8400000000001,"body":"further is those three batteries per"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1676.8400000000001,"endTime":1681.72,"body":"vehicle, after five years, or even"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1676.8400000000001,"endTime":1681.72,"body":"less three to five years, they'd have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1681.845,"endTime":1682.335,"body":"Replace"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1682.42,"endTime":1689.23,"body":"to replace all of So"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1682.42,"endTime":1689.23,"body":"these are, this is a fast, degrading"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1689.23,"endTime":1691.8300000000002,"body":"environment for, for any type of battery."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1693.15,"endTime":1700.21,"body":"And so we, we swapped out all the lead"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1693.15,"endTime":1700.21,"body":"acid and we went from three batteries per"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1700.21,"endTime":1707.05,"body":"truck to one, and we went from one charger"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1700.21,"endTime":1707.05,"body":"per truck to 0.5, so half a charger."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1707.69,"endTime":1710.13,"body":"You know, one charger"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1707.69,"endTime":1710.13,"body":"would be shared by, by two."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1711.19,"endTime":1714.77,"body":"And so big, big change"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1711.19,"endTime":1714.77,"body":"in in the operation."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1715.0700000000002,"endTime":1719.47,"body":"The, the charging space went down,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1715.0700000000002,"endTime":1719.47,"body":"the battery changing space went down."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1719.47,"endTime":1724.835,"body":"So there was more space for,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1719.47,"endTime":1724.835,"body":"for other, more, more inventory."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1725.655,"endTime":1731.2250000000001,"body":"And the so their return on investment was"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1725.655,"endTime":1731.2250000000001,"body":"very rapid because the, the main piece"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1731.405,"endTime":1734.4650000000001,"body":"of the cost for them was not the assets."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1735.115,"endTime":1740.175,"body":"It was really that changing operation,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1735.115,"endTime":1740.175,"body":"which would cost a lot of time and and"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1740.325,"endTime":1742.375,"body":"lost productivity for, for the operation."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1742.835,"endTime":1748.375,"body":"In terms of electricity savings the,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1742.835,"endTime":1748.375,"body":"there is, it was a significant electricity"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1748.375,"endTime":1753.415,"body":"savings just because of the efficiency"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1748.375,"endTime":1753.415,"body":"difference between our battery and,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1753.4750000000001,"endTime":1755.175,"body":"and the incumbent lead acid battery."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1755.795,"endTime":1759.915,"body":"So I, they didn't give us the exact"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1755.795,"endTime":1759.915,"body":"numbers, but they were saving thousands"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1759.915,"endTime":1761.4750000000001,"body":"and thousands of dollars per year."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1762.4950000000001,"endTime":1768.02,"body":"In terms of our estimates is there's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1762.4950000000001,"endTime":1768.02,"body":"probably about a 20% electricity"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1768.02,"endTime":1770.7,"body":"savings, which is which is, is big."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1770.765,"endTime":1770.9850000000001,"body":"Mm"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1771.52,"endTime":1775.26,"body":"Uh, and perhaps 20 to 30%."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1775.3600000000001,"endTime":1781.14,"body":"So we don't know exactly, but it, it would"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1775.3600000000001,"endTime":1781.14,"body":"be high because you save and you save"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1781.3600000000001,"endTime":1786.1200000000001,"body":"electricity both on the charging side"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1781.3600000000001,"endTime":1786.1200000000001,"body":"because when you charge these lead acid"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1786.44,"endTime":1791.575,"body":"batteries, only maybe 70% of the electrons"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1786.44,"endTime":1791.575,"body":"make it into the, into the battery."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1791.575,"endTime":1796.605,"body":"Others are going into heat and some"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1791.575,"endTime":1796.605,"body":"hydrogen gas formation, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1797.385,"endTime":1801.765,"body":"And then when the battery's powering"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1797.385,"endTime":1801.765,"body":"the vehicle, again, a lot of the, some"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1801.765,"endTime":1804.885,"body":"of it's going to the motors, but some"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1801.765,"endTime":1804.885,"body":"of the energy's going to heat as well."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1805.345,"endTime":1808.605,"body":"In the li in our case, the lithium"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1805.345,"endTime":1808.605,"body":"ion battery is much more efficient,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1808.605,"endTime":1812.2450000000001,"body":"both on the charging side and on"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1808.605,"endTime":1812.2450000000001,"body":"the discharging side in the truck."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1812.345,"endTime":1814.325,"body":"So, big, big savings there."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1815.065,"endTime":1819.425,"body":"The proudest point though I have is that"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1815.065,"endTime":1819.425,"body":"those batteries have been operating now"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1819.425,"endTime":1827.295,"body":"for five years in, in that incredibly"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1819.425,"endTime":1827.295,"body":"heavy usage environment and after five"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1827.295,"endTime":1832.7350000000001,"body":"years, there's probably been about two"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1827.295,"endTime":1832.7350000000001,"body":"to 3% degradation on the batteries."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1832.7450000000001,"endTime":1832.9650000000001,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1834.435,"endTime":1838.095,"body":"So they're gonna last 10"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1834.435,"endTime":1838.095,"body":"plus years in that type of application."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1838.755,"endTime":1843.255,"body":"So that, that's uh, a real testament"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1838.755,"endTime":1843.255,"body":"to how good this technology is in"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1843.255,"endTime":1844.775,"body":"that, that type of environment."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1845.275,"endTime":1846.4450000000002,"body":"Cool, cool, cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1846.905,"endTime":1849.185,"body":"And where to next for Electrovaya?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1849.2050000000002,"endTime":1851.885,"body":"I mean, you, you've mentioned the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1849.2050000000002,"endTime":1851.885,"body":"gigafactory in New York and you've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1851.885,"endTime":1853.365,"body":"mentioned the, the solid state."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1853.7450000000001,"endTime":1855.565,"body":"Are, are there anything, is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1853.7450000000001,"endTime":1855.565,"body":"there anything else in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1855.565,"endTime":1856.685,"body":"horizon that you're aiming for?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1856.685,"endTime":1858.325,"body":"You know, where do you, where"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1856.685,"endTime":1858.325,"body":"do you expect to be kind"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1858.325,"endTime":1859.285,"body":"of five, 10 years from now?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1860.145,"endTime":1863.405,"body":"So the, the last thing"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1860.145,"endTime":1863.405,"body":"is we're trying to add a lot more."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1864.425,"endTime":1866.4450000000002,"body":"So five, 10 years is a great question."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1866.585,"endTime":1871.8500000000001,"body":"So, I would love to see"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1866.585,"endTime":1871.8500000000001,"body":"continued growth in the material"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1872.0900000000001,"endTime":1873.0900000000001,"body":"handling sector for instance."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1873.0900000000001,"endTime":1875.13,"body":"Right now we're still"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1873.0900000000001,"endTime":1875.13,"body":"scratching the surface."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1875.78,"endTime":1879.64,"body":"We're working with really"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1875.78,"endTime":1879.64,"body":"the big wealthy companies."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1880.02,"endTime":1885.19,"body":"Sooner or later, the mid-size companies"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1880.02,"endTime":1885.19,"body":"are gonna join, join the, the party there."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1885.3300000000002,"endTime":1890.1100000000001,"body":"So I think right now, lithium ion"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1885.3300000000002,"endTime":1890.1100000000001,"body":"batteries and, and our batteries in"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1890.1100000000001,"endTime":1896.9850000000001,"body":"particular penetrating maybe under 10% of"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1890.1100000000001,"endTime":1896.9850000000001,"body":"market share with our OEM partner, and we"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1896.9850000000001,"endTime":1898.7050000000002,"body":"expect that to see that continue to grow."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1899.525,"endTime":1905.285,"body":"I also wanna see if, of course, our, our"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1899.525,"endTime":1905.285,"body":"solutions make our way into transit buses."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1905.285,"endTime":1911.9950000000001,"body":"Transit buses are dear to my heart because"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1905.285,"endTime":1911.9950000000001,"body":"I take the bus a lot and uh, but in, in"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1911.9950000000001,"endTime":1919.851,"body":"North America, we've seen that sector not,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1911.9950000000001,"endTime":1919.851,"body":"not move well to, to lithium ion power."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1920.351,"endTime":1925.2910000000002,"body":"And for the most part, companies"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1920.351,"endTime":1925.2910000000002,"body":"have been utilizing automotive cells"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1926.031,"endTime":1932.2910000000002,"body":"in packs, large packs, and the bus"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1926.031,"endTime":1932.2910000000002,"body":"routes are long, so they need 500"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1932.451,"endTime":1937.411,"body":"kilowatt hour battery systems per"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1932.451,"endTime":1937.411,"body":"bus and they're not faring well."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1938.0710000000001,"endTime":1944.381,"body":"There have been recalls on pretty much"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1938.0710000000001,"endTime":1944.381,"body":"every major bus OEM relating to the"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1944.381,"endTime":1946.941,"body":"battery packs, mostly around safety."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1947.761,"endTime":1956.0610000000001,"body":"And we see that as a sign that,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1947.761,"endTime":1956.0610000000001,"body":"you know, you can't use automotive,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1957.411,"endTime":1960.5910000000001,"body":"the same automotive battery that"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1957.411,"endTime":1960.5910000000001,"body":"you put in your car into a bus."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1960.661,"endTime":1963.271,"body":"It's, it's a different"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1960.661,"endTime":1963.271,"body":"type of application."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1963.731,"endTime":1968.5910000000001,"body":"And so I see that a, as a, a"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1963.731,"endTime":1968.5910000000001,"body":"key potential market for us."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1968.8010000000002,"endTime":1972.778,"body":"We're, we're gonna be delivering"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1968.8010000000002,"endTime":1972.778,"body":"some of our first high voltage"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1972.778,"endTime":1974.218,"body":"systems later this year."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1975.313,"endTime":1979.403,"body":"And I would like to see bus"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1975.313,"endTime":1979.403,"body":"and truck a significant part"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1979.403,"endTime":1981.903,"body":"of our business 25 onwards."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1981.973,"endTime":1983.833,"body":"So that's another piece."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1984.2930000000001,"endTime":1988.7530000000002,"body":"And the third is adding some"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1984.2930000000001,"endTime":1988.7530000000002,"body":"smarts to these batteries, right?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1989.573,"endTime":1990.873,"body":"and we're starting to do that."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1991.688,"endTime":1996.3880000000001,"body":"So right now they just charge in, charge"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1991.688,"endTime":1996.3880000000001,"body":"out, and, and, and that's, that's how"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1996.478,"endTime":2000.948,"body":"we're looking at, we're, we're adding in"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":1996.478,"endTime":2000.948,"body":"some newer functions to the batteries."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2001.6480000000001,"endTime":2003.6680000000001,"body":"One of which would be demand response."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2004.063,"endTime":2004.353,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2004.353,"endTime":2004.633,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2004.9180000000001,"endTime":2008.538,"body":"So we'll be able"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2004.9180000000001,"endTime":2008.538,"body":"to charge these systems with,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2008.905,"endTime":2012.015,"body":"with some level of smarts right."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2012.035,"endTime":2016.2150000000001,"body":"So you can say this battery is already"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2012.035,"endTime":2016.2150000000001,"body":"90%, doesn't need to be charged"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2016.2150000000001,"endTime":2018.375,"body":"further, but battery number three does."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2018.515,"endTime":2020.135,"body":"It's only at this state of charge."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2020.875,"endTime":2027.2250000000001,"body":"And or you getting a step further would be"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2020.875,"endTime":2027.2250000000001,"body":"saying this vehicle is not utilized very"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2027.2250000000001,"endTime":2031.265,"body":"much, but this vehicle is utilized a lot,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2027.2250000000001,"endTime":2031.265,"body":"so let's charge that one at a higher rate."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2031.925,"endTime":2036.665,"body":"So, so that kind of system and"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2031.925,"endTime":2036.665,"body":"taking it a step further would"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2036.685,"endTime":2038.7450000000001,"body":"be a battery to grid, right?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2038.765,"endTime":2041.425,"body":"So you, here, you, in Electrovaya's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2038.765,"endTime":2041.425,"body":"case, you have a battery"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2041.425,"endTime":2042.545,"body":"that doesn't really degrade"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2042.92,"endTime":2043.21,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2043.585,"endTime":2047.645,"body":"or, and so you"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2043.585,"endTime":2047.645,"body":"wanna use that energy storage"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2047.6950000000002,"endTime":2051.435,"body":"asset as much as possible which"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2047.6950000000002,"endTime":2051.435,"body":"would not be the case in your EV"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2051.435,"endTime":2052.4249999999997,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2052.5,"endTime":2057.24,"body":"So, but in this case you do"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2052.5,"endTime":2057.24,"body":"so using it as energy storage when it's,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2057.87,"endTime":2060.6,"body":"when it's charging or parked for sure."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2060.74,"endTime":2064.2799999999997,"body":"And then use it for powering"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2060.74,"endTime":2064.2799999999997,"body":"the vehicle in other times so"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2064.2799999999997,"endTime":2067.68,"body":"that that's the directions we"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2064.2799999999997,"endTime":2067.68,"body":"want to move in as a company."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2068.21,"endTime":2068.5,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2068.5,"endTime":2072.34,"body":"What about other sectors like the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2068.5,"endTime":2072.34,"body":"marine transport sector and the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2072.54,"endTime":2077.77,"body":"aviation sectors because they need"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2072.54,"endTime":2077.77,"body":"safe batteries as well and ones"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2077.77,"endTime":2079.9700000000003,"body":"that, you know, again, cycle a lot."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2081.695,"endTime":2083.315,"body":"So Marine"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2081.695,"endTime":2083.315,"body":"is a good, good one."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2083.355,"endTime":2086.3250000000003,"body":"I have, we haven't looked, you"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2083.355,"endTime":2086.3250000000003,"body":"know, we can't Marine is one we"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2086.3250000000003,"endTime":2087.605,"body":"haven't looked at in a great deal."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2088.225,"endTime":2091.925,"body":"The sector after that we're"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2088.225,"endTime":2091.925,"body":"looking at though is, is mining."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2092.425,"endTime":2092.545,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2093.29,"endTime":2098.83,"body":"mining vehicles operate"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2093.29,"endTime":2098.83,"body":"with huge amounts of diesel same as"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2098.83,"endTime":2100.43,"body":"Marine, but huge amounts of diesel."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2101.14,"endTime":2105.983,"body":"They but unlike Marine, they're"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2101.14,"endTime":2105.983,"body":"operating 20 plus hours per day."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2106.033,"endTime":2106.453,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2106.9230000000002,"endTime":2112.623,"body":"So in, in many cases, and"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2106.9230000000002,"endTime":2112.623,"body":"there the electrification is both gonna"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2112.623,"endTime":2114.263,"body":"have a huge impact on the environment."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2114.763,"endTime":2117.823,"body":"But again, there are not many"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2114.763,"endTime":2117.823,"body":"batteries technologies that"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2117.823,"endTime":2118.9030000000002,"body":"can meet that type of demand."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2118.9230000000002,"endTime":2123.063,"body":"And I think that is one where"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2118.9230000000002,"endTime":2123.063,"body":"we're going to look at more"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2123.063,"endTime":2124.463,"body":"closely in the coming months."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2124.538,"endTime":2124.828,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2124.888,"endTime":2129.948,"body":"And a lot of mines are typically"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2124.888,"endTime":2129.948,"body":"remote, sometimes off grid."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2130.248,"endTime":2135.148,"body":"So if they have local renewable"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2130.248,"endTime":2135.148,"body":"generation sources, coupling that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2135.178,"endTime":2141.518,"body":"with electric mine vehicles makes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2135.178,"endTime":2141.518,"body":"a, a really nice way of extracting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2141.7580000000003,"endTime":2143.438,"body":"minerals, which isn't nearly as damaging."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2144.818,"endTime":2145.308,"body":"Correct."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2145.628,"endTime":2148.828,"body":"Actually, we're talking to one mining"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2145.628,"endTime":2148.828,"body":"company who does extract lithium,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2148.938,"endTime":2149.228,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2149.2980000000002,"endTime":2149.588,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2149.618,"endTime":2149.908,"body":"it's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2150.408,"endTime":2155.908,"body":"coming full circle and they would"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2150.408,"endTime":2155.908,"body":"love to see that become more green."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2156.368,"endTime":2159.223,"body":"And it's not just becoming more green."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2159.253,"endTime":2162.773,"body":"It's a more it's a more"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2159.253,"endTime":2162.773,"body":"efficient operation overall."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2163.073,"endTime":2168.013,"body":"You know, these remote sites,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2163.073,"endTime":2168.013,"body":"trucking in diesel is not efficient."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2168.4030000000002,"endTime":2169.493,"body":"It's very costly."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2170.693,"endTime":2170.983,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2171.093,"endTime":2171.313,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2171.313,"endTime":2171.568,"body":"polluting."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2171.568,"endTime":2171.788,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2171.788,"endTime":2174.988,"body":"the vehicles, the, and the vehicles"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2171.788,"endTime":2174.988,"body":"themselves are actually designed"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2174.988,"endTime":2178.055,"body":"around electric from the get go."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2178.085,"endTime":2180.085,"body":"Sort of like your locomotive trains"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2180.135,"endTime":2180.195,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2180.3650000000002,"endTime":2183.96,"body":"the diesel's there"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2180.3650000000002,"endTime":2183.96,"body":"to power the electric motors?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2184.03,"endTime":2184.25,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2184.52,"endTime":2185.17,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2185.23,"endTime":2185.81,"body":"Yep, yep."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2185.81,"endTime":2186.09,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2186.98,"endTime":2189.29,"body":"We're coming towards the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2186.98,"endTime":2189.29,"body":"end of the podcast now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2189.4500000000003,"endTime":2194.09,"body":"Raj, is there any question I haven't asked"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2189.4500000000003,"endTime":2194.09,"body":"that you wish I had, or any aspect of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2194.09,"endTime":2197.05,"body":"this we haven't touched on that you think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2194.09,"endTime":2197.05,"body":"it's important for people to think about?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2199.79,"endTime":2200.25,"body":"No, no."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2200.25,"endTime":2205.39,"body":"For just as a takeaway, I would say,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2200.25,"endTime":2205.39,"body":"you know, Electrovaya is a interesting"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2206.51,"endTime":2208.7400000000002,"body":"battery technology company in this space."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2209.37,"endTime":2213.71,"body":"And the batteries we're making"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2209.37,"endTime":2213.71,"body":"are, are going to have a tremendous"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2213.87,"endTime":2217.66,"body":"outsized impact on GHG reduction."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2218.31,"endTime":2222.26,"body":"I'm not saying anything negative about"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2218.31,"endTime":2222.26,"body":"the car batteries 'cause that, that's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2222.26,"endTime":2227.82,"body":"important as well, but we're going"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2222.26,"endTime":2227.82,"body":"to have a outsized impact overall."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2228.39,"endTime":2232.4900000000002,"body":"And with this technology"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2228.39,"endTime":2232.4900000000002,"body":"is, is what the world needs."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2232.55,"endTime":2236.89,"body":"We need technologies, which last a long"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2232.55,"endTime":2236.89,"body":"time, which don't make their way into"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2237.17,"endTime":2245.083,"body":"landfill, which can have a, you know,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2237.17,"endTime":2245.083,"body":"a, a much, much higher level of green"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2245.183,"endTime":2248.42,"body":"impact than your, your standard batteries."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2248.655,"endTime":2249.945,"body":"Sure, sure, Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2250.8650000000002,"endTime":2251.8650000000002,"body":"Raj, that's been fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2251.8650000000002,"endTime":2255.8250000000003,"body":"If people would like to know more"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2251.8650000000002,"endTime":2255.8250000000003,"body":"about yourself or any of the things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2255.8250000000003,"endTime":2258.705,"body":"we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2255.8250000000003,"endTime":2258.705,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2260.321,"endTime":2264.771,"body":"Of course our, our website's"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2260.321,"endTime":2264.771,"body":"great to start, so Electrovaya.com."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2264.841,"endTime":2270.971,"body":"We also post some, some good updates"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2264.841,"endTime":2270.971,"body":"on our LinkedIn page as well,"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2271.101,"endTime":2273.1710000000003,"body":"which Electrovaya on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2273.911,"endTime":2279.768,"body":"And hopefully you'll be hearing more"},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2273.911,"endTime":2279.768,"body":"about us and as we do more outreach."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2280.198,"endTime":2280.618,"body":"Superb."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2280.668,"endTime":2282.698,"body":"Great, Raj, that's been fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2282.698,"endTime":2284.338,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2282.698,"endTime":2284.338,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Raj DasGupta","startTime":2285.453,"endTime":2286.343,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2288.839,"endTime":2290.709,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2288.839,"endTime":2290.709,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2291.429,"endTime":2292.539,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2293.399,"endTime":2297.549,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2293.399,"endTime":2297.549,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2297.559,"endTime":2301.469,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2301.719,"endTime":2305.199,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2305.7690000000002,"endTime":2309.509,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2305.7690000000002,"endTime":2309.509,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2309.529,"endTime":2314.009,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2309.529,"endTime":2314.009,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2314.639,"endTime":2317.599,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2314.639,"endTime":2317.599,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2317.799,"endTime":2320.329,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2317.799,"endTime":2320.329,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2321.419,"endTime":2321.869,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2322.539,"endTime":2323.459,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}