{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.46,"body":"We are roughly"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.46,"body":"thinking about doubling the grid"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2.74,"endTime":6.539,"body":"capacity in anything between seven"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2.74,"endTime":6.539,"body":"and 12 years in many countries."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":6.84,"endTime":12.62,"body":"So the way I think about it, we've built"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":6.84,"endTime":12.62,"body":"a grid in the last hundred years, and now"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":12.72,"endTime":14.42,"body":"we have to build it again in the next 10."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":15.039,"endTime":17.019,"body":"So the challenge is enormous."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":17.139,"endTime":19.209,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":17.139,"endTime":19.209,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":19.219,"endTime":20.719,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":21.039,"endTime":24.769,"body":"This is the Climate Confident"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":21.039,"endTime":24.769,"body":"podcast, the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":24.909,"endTime":28.679,"body":"showcasing best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":24.909,"endTime":28.679,"body":"emission reductions and removals,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":29.109,"endTime":31.049,"body":"and I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.209,"endTime":34.969,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.209,"endTime":34.969,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.129,"endTime":37.489,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":47.268,"endTime":51.408,"body":"Hi everyone, and welcome to a special"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":47.268,"endTime":51.408,"body":"edition of the Climate Confident Podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.798,"endTime":56.968,"body":"Today's episode is sponsored by"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.798,"endTime":56.968,"body":"Siemens and with me on the show today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.048,"endTime":58.568,"body":"I have my special guest, Sabine."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":59.118,"endTime":60.208,"body":"Sabine, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.338,"endTime":62.128,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":63.203,"endTime":63.863,"body":"Hi everyone."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":64.017,"endTime":64.567,"body":"Sabine."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":64.567,"endTime":65.757,"body":"Sabine Erlinghagen."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":65.777,"endTime":68.6,"body":"I'm the global CEO of,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":65.777,"endTime":68.6,"body":"Siemens Grid Software."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.653,"endTime":70.263,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":70.883,"endTime":75.823,"body":"And Sabine, one of the reasons you're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":70.883,"endTime":75.823,"body":"on the podcast today is because Siemens"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":76.103,"endTime":79.823,"body":"recently produced a report, and I have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":76.103,"endTime":79.823,"body":"the name of it here in front of me."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":79.823,"endTime":84.303,"body":"It's the Siemens Infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":79.823,"endTime":84.303,"body":"Transition Monitor 2023 subtitle, the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":84.303,"endTime":86.783,"body":"Great Divide on the Path to Net Zero."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":87.0,"endTime":90.74,"body":"Can you give us an overview of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":87.0,"endTime":90.74,"body":"kind of key findings of the report,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.74,"endTime":94.9,"body":"particularly as they relate to your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.74,"endTime":94.9,"body":"own kind of area of grid infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":94.96,"endTime":96.74,"body":"and renewable energy integration?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":98.195,"endTime":98.475,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":98.795,"endTime":103.795,"body":"I mean, what we did in that report"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":98.795,"endTime":103.795,"body":"is actually interview and ask 1,400"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":103.965,"endTime":108.915,"body":"executives globally to understand"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":103.965,"endTime":108.915,"body":"what are the challenges in the energy"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":108.915,"endTime":112.595,"body":"transition or better in the infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":108.915,"endTime":112.595,"body":"transition more broadly, because it"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":112.595,"endTime":117.693,"body":"touches literally every part of  of"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":112.595,"endTime":117.693,"body":"infrastructure in all countries."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":118.113,"endTime":123.933,"body":"So 1,400 executive basically"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":118.113,"endTime":123.933,"body":"responded to us that they absolutely"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":123.933,"endTime":128.533,"body":"believe that decarbonization path"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":123.933,"endTime":128.533,"body":"is decarbonization strategies and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":128.633,"endTime":132.693,"body":"the right infrastructure are to be a"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":128.633,"endTime":132.693,"body":"competitive advantage going forward."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":133.393,"endTime":137.453,"body":"But also only half of them shared"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":133.393,"endTime":137.453,"body":"that they don't think that their"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":137.653,"endTime":142.363,"body":"countries are yet on a successful path"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":137.653,"endTime":142.363,"body":"to get that competitive advantage."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":142.743,"endTime":147.403,"body":"So there's a lot of work to be"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":142.743,"endTime":147.403,"body":"done, and specifically the area"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":147.473,"endTime":149.953,"body":"that I work in most is, grids."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":150.093,"endTime":153.473,"body":"So electricity grids, both the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":150.093,"endTime":153.473,"body":"transmission grids for the high voltage"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":153.613,"endTime":158.483,"body":"as well as, as far as the distribution"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":153.613,"endTime":158.483,"body":"grids and the numbers of how much"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":158.483,"endTime":163.055,"body":"work there is to be done to make a"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":158.483,"endTime":163.055,"body":"successful energy transition is really"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":163.055,"endTime":166.815,"body":"amazing and, the report sheds quite"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":163.055,"endTime":166.815,"body":"some light on, on the challenges,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":166.835,"endTime":168.815,"body":"but certainly also on some solutions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":169.465,"endTime":170.025,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":170.165,"endTime":174.845,"body":"And I'll put a link for people who are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":170.165,"endTime":174.845,"body":"interested to that report so people can"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":174.845,"endTime":177.028,"body":"have a, a browse uh, in their own time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":177.648,"endTime":182.818,"body":"But can, can you give us an idea for,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":177.648,"endTime":182.818,"body":"well, let, let's, let's talk about, grids"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":182.818,"endTime":185.578,"body":"because that's your area of interest"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":182.818,"endTime":185.578,"body":"and that's, that's what we're, that's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":185.578,"endTime":186.498,"body":"what we're here to talk about today."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":187.048,"endTime":192.418,"body":"I've had guests on the podcast before who"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":187.048,"endTime":192.418,"body":"have referred to the grid as being kind"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":192.418,"endTime":195.258,"body":"of a bottleneck in the energy transition."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":196.448,"endTime":198.708,"body":"Is that something that you'd agree with?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":198.968,"endTime":203.468,"body":"And if so, what do you see as the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":198.968,"endTime":203.468,"body":"most kind of pressing challenges"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":203.468,"endTime":208.168,"body":"currently facing the grid sector in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":203.468,"endTime":208.168,"body":"context of renewable energy expansion?"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":209.243,"endTime":210.778,"body":"I would 100% agree."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":211.255,"endTime":216.178,"body":"And I've, I've said that publicly"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":211.255,"endTime":216.178,"body":"multiple times, and it's an underestimated"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":216.178,"endTime":220.498,"body":"bottleneck because most of the time when"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":216.178,"endTime":220.498,"body":"we think about decarbonization, we think"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":220.498,"endTime":226.098,"body":"about offshore wind or solar panels, or we"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":220.498,"endTime":226.098,"body":"think about how we insulate houses better"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":226.198,"endTime":228.378,"body":"and or do energy reduction measures."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":228.758,"endTime":229.978,"body":"But ultimately."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":231.138,"endTime":234.798,"body":", if you wanna get to clean forms"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":231.138,"endTime":234.798,"body":"of energy, you get away from oil."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":234.798,"endTime":238.158,"body":"You get away from gas for"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":234.798,"endTime":238.158,"body":"heating, for transport, for a"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":238.158,"endTime":241.438,"body":"lot of industrial processes, and"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":238.158,"endTime":241.438,"body":"you replace it by electricity."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":242.258,"endTime":245.038,"body":"But the thing with electricity"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":242.258,"endTime":245.038,"body":"is it's produced somewhere"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":245.038,"endTime":246.438,"body":"and it's consumed elsewhere."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":246.898,"endTime":249.318,"body":"So the grids need to keep up with that."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":249.933,"endTime":254.38,"body":"Just to mention a few numbers,"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":249.933,"endTime":254.38,"body":"we expect that, the energy or"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":254.38,"endTime":261.113,"body":"the electricity consumption to be"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":254.38,"endTime":261.113,"body":"precise will go up threefold by 2050."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":261.63,"endTime":267.05,"body":"And if we only look at grids at the needed"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":261.63,"endTime":267.05,"body":"capacity in the more near term, we expect"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":267.08,"endTime":274.077,"body":"that grids need to double their capacity"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":267.08,"endTime":274.077,"body":"in seven to 12 years in many countries."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":274.267,"endTime":275.967,"body":"So Norway says seven years."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":276.357,"endTime":278.6,"body":"Some other countries say 12."},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":279.23,"endTime":283.507,"body":"Some are a little bit more relaxed, but"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":279.23,"endTime":283.507,"body":"it's all very short times if you think"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":283.507,"endTime":287.693,"body":"about building out infrastructure in"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":283.507,"endTime":287.693,"body":"cities, in places where you don't have"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":287.693,"endTime":291.133,"body":"space where you need permissions, but"},{"speaker":", Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":287.693,"endTime":291.133,"body":"you need supply chain and, and so forth."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":292.378,"endTime":292.668,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":292.928,"endTime":297.348,"body":"And can you, you know, not, not everyone"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":292.928,"endTime":297.348,"body":"who listens to this podcast might be"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":297.608,"endTime":302.468,"body":"as au fait with energy systems and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":297.608,"endTime":302.468,"body":"electricity and grids as as you are."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":302.738,"endTime":306.028,"body":"Just for people listening, could you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":302.738,"endTime":306.028,"body":"kind of differentiate the difference"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":306.028,"endTime":309.388,"body":"between energy and electricity as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":306.028,"endTime":309.388,"body":"you've, as you've mentioned there,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":309.888,"endTime":315.132,"body":"and also talk about how, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":309.888,"endTime":315.132,"body":"primary energy, uh, versus electricity"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":315.242,"endTime":317.412,"body":"differs in terms of the amount required."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":318.722,"endTime":322.895,"body":"I think by and large"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":318.722,"endTime":322.895,"body":"you can put a, a fuel into your car."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":323.055,"endTime":326.535,"body":"I mean, that's the, the easiest thing"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":323.055,"endTime":326.535,"body":"to, to think about the difference, right?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":326.962,"endTime":330.772,"body":"You put the oil into your car in"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":326.962,"endTime":330.772,"body":"the form of gasoline or diesel,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":331.192,"endTime":334.342,"body":"and, and you run your car based"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":331.192,"endTime":334.342,"body":"on a combustion engine, right?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":334.402,"endTime":336.738,"body":"And you produce the energy in that means."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":337.278,"endTime":341.415,"body":"If you have a battery,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":337.278,"endTime":341.415,"body":"you can use electricity."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":341.9,"endTime":344.88,"body":"And that electricity has"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":341.9,"endTime":344.88,"body":"many ways of being produced."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":345.3,"endTime":348.92,"body":"And of course you can also have"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":345.3,"endTime":348.92,"body":"a gas fired or a coal fired power"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":348.92,"endTime":350.92,"body":"plant producing the electricity."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":351.31,"endTime":354.72,"body":"Then it's not green, but with a"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":351.31,"endTime":354.72,"body":"electricity, you have the chance"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":354.86,"endTime":358.727,"body":"of having a green option, which"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":354.86,"endTime":358.727,"body":"you don't have if you run your"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":358.787,"endTime":360.487,"body":"car on, on classical gasoline."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":360.507,"endTime":364.487,"body":"So that's why this transition to"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":360.507,"endTime":364.487,"body":"electricity gives you a green choice,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":365.123,"endTime":369.373,"body":"which is wind, which is solar, which"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":365.123,"endTime":369.373,"body":"is hydro plants and and so forth."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":369.913,"endTime":377.213,"body":"And that's why the pathway to Net"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":369.913,"endTime":377.213,"body":"Zero really relies on, we call it"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":377.213,"endTime":379.253,"body":"the electrification of everything."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":379.393,"endTime":381.213,"body":"So everything running electric."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":381.753,"endTime":386.547,"body":"You see the same discussions on"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":381.753,"endTime":386.547,"body":"heat pump versus, gas heating."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":387.23,"endTime":389.97,"body":"So if it's gas, it's never green."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":390.55,"endTime":392.37,"body":"Or it's natural gas, it's never green."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":392.81,"endTime":394.887,"body":"And with, heat pumps,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":392.81,"endTime":394.887,"body":"you have electricity."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":394.907,"endTime":397.287,"body":"And electricity again,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":394.907,"endTime":397.287,"body":"has a, has a green option."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":397.347,"endTime":401.66,"body":"And, and that's why this form"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":397.347,"endTime":401.66,"body":"of energy gives you an option"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":401.92,"endTime":403.14,"body":"to do it carbon neutral."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":403.7,"endTime":408.55,"body":"Yeah, and electricity is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":403.7,"endTime":408.55,"body":"generally far more efficient than most"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":408.55,"endTime":415.31,"body":"of the other forms of of energy, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":408.55,"endTime":415.31,"body":"so electrification means that actually"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":415.33,"endTime":419.55,"body":"the amount of energy we consume could"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":415.33,"endTime":419.55,"body":"fall significantly while increasing the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":419.55,"endTime":421.12,"body":"amount of electricity consumed, correct?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":421.82,"endTime":424.54,"body":"Yes, that's"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":421.82,"endTime":424.54,"body":"very true because I mean, obviously"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":424.56,"endTime":428.907,"body":"if you  run a gas plant or a coal"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":424.56,"endTime":428.907,"body":"plant, there's a certain loss in"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":428.907,"endTime":433.945,"body":"that process, and the degree of"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":428.907,"endTime":433.945,"body":"efficiency is much lower as if you do"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":433.945,"endTime":436.152,"body":"it directly via the electricity route."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":436.652,"endTime":438.142,"body":"So, that's certainly true."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":438.402,"endTime":442.608,"body":"And the same, by the way, is an argument"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":438.402,"endTime":442.608,"body":"on the hydrogen piece as well, right?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":442.988,"endTime":450.542,"body":"If you would heat let's say a city"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":442.988,"endTime":450.542,"body":"with one with heat pumps and you use"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":450.642,"endTime":456.34,"body":"one windmill for that, if you would"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":450.642,"endTime":456.34,"body":"heat the same city with  hydrogen, you"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":456.34,"endTime":459.9,"body":"would need five windmills for that to"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":456.34,"endTime":459.9,"body":"produce that hydrogen in a green way."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":460.38,"endTime":464.98,"body":"it's the same ratio type of question"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":460.38,"endTime":464.98,"body":"of just getting the efficiency as"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":464.98,"endTime":469.18,"body":"high as possible, with the energy"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":464.98,"endTime":469.18,"body":"hungry world that we live in."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":469.735,"endTime":469.975,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":469.975,"endTime":472.175,"body":"And it's a similar one for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":469.975,"endTime":472.175,"body":"electric vehicles as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":472.255,"endTime":477.615,"body":"I think it's two to three wind turbines"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":472.255,"endTime":477.615,"body":"for a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":477.635,"endTime":481.135,"body":"versus one for a fully electric car."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":481.205,"endTime":484.095,"body":"It's, yeah, it, it's, it's a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":481.205,"endTime":484.095,"body":"fascinating space to watch."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":484.095,"endTime":491.858,"body":"In terms of  management, what are some"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":484.095,"endTime":491.858,"body":"of the best practices emerging, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":491.858,"endTime":496.498,"body":"across the industry for grid management"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":491.858,"endTime":496.498,"body":"in integrating renewables like wind,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":496.508,"endTime":498.898,"body":"solar, and distributed energy sources?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":500.413,"endTime":503.813,"body":"I mean grid management"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":500.413,"endTime":503.813,"body":"In the past, if you imagine what it was,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":503.913,"endTime":508.9,"body":"it was kind of, you know, there are like,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":503.913,"endTime":508.9,"body":"let's say 10 big power plants, where"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":508.9,"endTime":512.7,"body":"you know the characteristic really well"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":508.9,"endTime":512.7,"body":"and they're in your territory, and then"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":512.7,"endTime":517.9,"body":"you distribute that energy to households"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":512.7,"endTime":517.9,"body":"who have very foreseeable patterns of"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":517.9,"endTime":525.51,"body":"consumptions by and so the task was never"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":517.9,"endTime":525.51,"body":"to be underestimated, but compared to"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":525.7,"endTime":532.09,"body":"what it is becoming, it's actually, it"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":525.7,"endTime":532.09,"body":"has been easy compared to that, because"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":532.87,"endTime":539.09,"body":"now we have millions of power plants in"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":532.87,"endTime":539.09,"body":"the distributed energy world with millions"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":539.31,"endTime":545.79,"body":"of solar panels, batteries charging forth"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":539.31,"endTime":545.79,"body":"and back, on, on EVs, in the future."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":546.12,"endTime":551.94,"body":"So the complexity of managing a"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":546.12,"endTime":551.94,"body":"grid is increasing by far is not"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":551.94,"endTime":555.38,"body":"only because of the distributed"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":551.94,"endTime":555.38,"body":"nature, because also because of the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":555.38,"endTime":558.14,"body":"intermittent nature of those resources."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":558.14,"endTime":561.22,"body":"Because obviously the sun is not always"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":558.14,"endTime":561.22,"body":"shining, the wind is not always blowing."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":561.22,"endTime":566.487,"body":"And there's a lot more effort and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":561.22,"endTime":566.487,"body":"management of complexity needed in"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":566.487,"endTime":568.807,"body":"order to still keep those grids stable."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":569.467,"endTime":573.367,"body":"And there's a big focus"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":569.467,"endTime":573.367,"body":"here on distribution grids."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":573.772,"endTime":577.202,"body":"While so far we've been managing"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":573.772,"endTime":577.202,"body":"the transmission grids, which"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":577.202,"endTime":578.402,"body":"is the high voltage lines."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":578.652,"endTime":582.828,"body":"And we've been, the, the distribution"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":578.652,"endTime":582.828,"body":"grids have really been just there"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":582.928,"endTime":587.668,"body":"to distribute and, didn't have a big"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":582.928,"endTime":587.668,"body":"challenge on grid stability or anything."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":616.5780000000001,"endTime":620.038,"body":"But now they are,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":616.5780000000001,"endTime":620.038,"body":"as people have solar panels on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":620.038,"endTime":621.0780000000001,"body":"their roofs and things like that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":621.0780000000001,"endTime":621.7180000000001,"body":"Is that what you're saying?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":622.643,"endTime":623.3030000000001,"body":"Yes, yes."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":623.6030000000001,"endTime":628.09,"body":"So the distribution grids is basically"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":623.6030000000001,"endTime":628.09,"body":"what your homes, or smaller shops or,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":629.1600000000001,"endTime":634.9480000000001,"body":"smaller industrial sites are connected"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":629.1600000000001,"endTime":634.9480000000001,"body":"to, and all of the sudden they come less"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":634.9480000000001,"endTime":639.0150000000001,"body":"predict, they become less predictable, and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":634.9480000000001,"endTime":639.0150000000001,"body":"they become active players in the network."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":639.7550000000001,"endTime":644.335,"body":"And if you think about what this does to"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":639.7550000000001,"endTime":644.335,"body":"grid planning, grid operations, and grid"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":644.335,"endTime":646.8080000000001,"body":"maintenance, it's very, very significant."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":647.522,"endTime":652.4970000000001,"body":"We tend to say that we actually flip"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":647.522,"endTime":652.4970000000001,"body":"the grid on the head from a management"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":652.4970000000001,"endTime":657.4830000000001,"body":"perspective and that basically"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":652.4970000000001,"endTime":657.4830000000001,"body":"shatters all the paradigms that you"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":657.4830000000001,"endTime":659.4830000000001,"body":"had before in how you manage grids."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":659.8230000000001,"endTime":661.643,"body":"And that's a very significant change."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":661.863,"endTime":668.08,"body":"And obviously software can play a big"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":661.863,"endTime":668.08,"body":"role to handle complexity software,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":668.08,"endTime":674.572,"body":"including obviously smart algorithms,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":668.08,"endTime":674.572,"body":"AI, but in the first place, managing"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":674.572,"endTime":679.652,"body":"the grid without software has never"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":674.572,"endTime":679.652,"body":"been possible, but now it's becoming"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":679.7220000000001,"endTime":684.745,"body":"paramount, because the experts are just"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":679.7220000000001,"endTime":684.745,"body":"getting overwhelmed with the amount of"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":684.965,"endTime":687.1080000000001,"body":"information that they need to process."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":688.283,"endTime":688.5730000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":688.793,"endTime":693.7330000000001,"body":"And it, it, it's all down because the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":688.793,"endTime":693.7330000000001,"body":"grids have to be balanced at all times."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":694.5930000000001,"endTime":700.9530000000001,"body":"And as you mentioned earlier, if you have,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":694.5930000000001,"endTime":700.9530000000001,"body":"you know, a grid with  10 power plants,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":701.273,"endTime":703.7130000000001,"body":"uh, and then millions of consumers."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":703.863,"endTime":706.793,"body":"That wasn't too challenging"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":703.863,"endTime":706.793,"body":"because at least you knew that the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":706.793,"endTime":712.4330000000001,"body":"generation side of it was stable"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":706.793,"endTime":712.4330000000001,"body":"and the consumption side of it, the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":712.4330000000001,"endTime":714.753,"body":"demand was variable but predictable."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":714.753,"endTime":718.5530000000001,"body":"But now we've moved to, as you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":714.753,"endTime":718.5530000000001,"body":"said, where you have thousands,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":718.673,"endTime":721.1930000000001,"body":"potentially even more of generators."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":722.248,"endTime":727.3480000000001,"body":"As well as the millions"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":722.248,"endTime":727.3480000000001,"body":"potentially of consumers demand."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":727.768,"endTime":730.548,"body":"And so you've got massive"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":727.768,"endTime":730.548,"body":"variability on both sides."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":731.048,"endTime":734.9480000000001,"body":"And so yeah, I can see"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":731.048,"endTime":734.9480000000001,"body":"how software is vital."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":734.9480000000001,"endTime":736.628,"body":"There's, there's no one who"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":734.9480000000001,"endTime":736.628,"body":"could be flipping enough"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":736.8280000000001,"endTime":739.2280000000001,"body":"switches,  to, to do this manually."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":739.2280000000001,"endTime":741.1880000000001,"body":"So absolutely it has to be done."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":741.605,"endTime":744.9050000000001,"body":"Uh, Where, where do things like"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":741.605,"endTime":744.9050000000001,"body":"interconnects fit in in all this?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":744.9050000000001,"endTime":748.105,"body":"Because as you said, and I've said"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":744.9050000000001,"endTime":748.105,"body":"this before in the podcast, yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":748.125,"endTime":750.825,"body":"The sun isn't always shining and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":748.125,"endTime":750.825,"body":"the wind isn't always blowing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":751.355,"endTime":753.7750000000001,"body":"But it is, the sun is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":751.355,"endTime":753.7750000000001,"body":"always shining, in fact."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":754.0050000000001,"endTime":755.095,"body":"Just maybe not here."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":755.4480000000001,"endTime":757.148,"body":"Uh, And the wind is always blowing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":757.148,"endTime":758.4680000000001,"body":"Again, just maybe not here."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":758.648,"endTime":761.668,"body":"So, you know, how do inter, how"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":758.648,"endTime":761.668,"body":"do interconnects fit into this?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":762.748,"endTime":765.6880000000001,"body":"We had a, a"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":762.748,"endTime":765.6880000000001,"body":"professor from the Potsdam Institute"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":765.748,"endTime":768.6080000000001,"body":"of Climate Change, visiting us."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":768.628,"endTime":771.908,"body":"And he said exactly the same thing"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":768.628,"endTime":771.908,"body":"that what you're alluding to,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":772.2220000000001,"endTime":777.0020000000001,"body":"which in principle it means if you"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":772.2220000000001,"endTime":777.0020000000001,"body":"look at it at a continental scale."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":777.302,"endTime":782.4770000000001,"body":"So for Europe, for the US, for"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":777.302,"endTime":782.4770000000001,"body":"South America and so forth."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":783.047,"endTime":789.46,"body":"Then it's for North America to be"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":783.047,"endTime":789.46,"body":"precise,  then the wind is blowing"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":789.46,"endTime":793.82,"body":"somewhere, always, and the sun"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":789.46,"endTime":793.82,"body":"is out there somewhere, always."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":794.09,"endTime":798.8370000000001,"body":"So, if we look at the systems"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":794.09,"endTime":798.8370000000001,"body":"from a large enough lens and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":798.8370000000001,"endTime":800.517,"body":"we get the coordination across."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":801.3570000000001,"endTime":803.797,"body":"Actually the tasks become,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":801.3570000000001,"endTime":803.797,"body":"becomes much easier."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":804.4570000000001,"endTime":808.517,"body":"And luckily in, in Europe we are"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":804.4570000000001,"endTime":808.517,"body":"pretty well set up for that already."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":808.657,"endTime":813.277,"body":"If you look at the control centers"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":808.657,"endTime":813.277,"body":"for the high voltage lines, they're"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":813.9100000000001,"endTime":818.0100000000001,"body":"actually already having a view"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":813.9100000000001,"endTime":818.0100000000001,"body":"on the entire grid of Europe."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":818.19,"endTime":823.7,"body":"So you can, from Portugal to Ukraine,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":818.19,"endTime":823.7,"body":"you can see the situations in the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":823.7,"endTime":825.9000000000001,"body":"grid and you can see things coming."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":826.57,"endTime":830.1300000000001,"body":"If there's a problem and if that is"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":826.57,"endTime":830.1300000000001,"body":"propagating through the grid across"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":830.7,"endTime":837.412,"body":"countries, and that enables countries"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":830.7,"endTime":837.412,"body":"or individual zones for certain parts"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":837.412,"endTime":839.932,"body":"of the grid to help up each other out."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":840.312,"endTime":844.2120000000001,"body":"It was just with one large grid"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":840.312,"endTime":844.2120000000001,"body":"operator in, in Germany as well,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":844.2120000000001,"endTime":849.5400000000001,"body":"and they said the amount of exchange"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":844.2120000000001,"endTime":849.5400000000001,"body":"that we have today is like unheard"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":849.5400000000001,"endTime":851.3000000000001,"body":"of from what we did in the past."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":851.36,"endTime":853.9000000000001,"body":"In the past we operated"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":851.36,"endTime":853.9000000000001,"body":"our grid and we were fine."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":854.3100000000001,"endTime":858.6700000000001,"body":"Today we are constantly asking for help,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":854.3100000000001,"endTime":858.6700000000001,"body":"left and right, or we are providing help"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":858.7,"endTime":864.95,"body":"left and right, just to keep the overall"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":858.7,"endTime":864.95,"body":"system, stable in an efficient way because"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":865.5600000000001,"endTime":871.47,"body":"that, that's the next, point maybe how"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":865.5600000000001,"endTime":871.47,"body":"to do all of that in without letting"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":871.5300000000001,"endTime":874.07,"body":"the cost explode and it taking for ages."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":874.6750000000001,"endTime":875.205,"body":"Sure, sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":875.205,"endTime":878.8950000000001,"body":"And I'm based in here in Spain,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":875.205,"endTime":878.8950000000001,"body":"and there's the Red Electrica De"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":878.8950000000001,"endTime":880.365,"body":"España who manage the grid here."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":880.365,"endTime":885.485,"body":"And on their website you can see,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":880.365,"endTime":885.485,"body":"you know who they've bought energy in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":885.485,"endTime":888.725,"body":"from, typically France and Portugal,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":885.485,"endTime":888.725,"body":"and who they've sold energy to,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":888.995,"endTime":890.325,"body":"typically, France and Portugal."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":890.325,"endTime":891.845,"body":"Sometimes in Morocco as well, both ways."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":892.2650000000001,"endTime":896.0350000000001,"body":"But in the same day, you can see"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":892.2650000000001,"endTime":896.0350000000001,"body":"that they've sold in, in some part"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":896.0350000000001,"endTime":899.4350000000001,"body":"of the day and they've bought in,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":896.0350000000001,"endTime":899.4350000000001,"body":"they've exported and imported diff"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":899.4350000000001,"endTime":900.6750000000001,"body":"at different times of the same day."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":900.695,"endTime":903.235,"body":"So it's, it's a constant"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":900.695,"endTime":903.235,"body":"kind of juggling match."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":903.355,"endTime":906.5150000000001,"body":"I assume Red Electrica De"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":903.355,"endTime":906.5150000000001,"body":"España is not unusual in that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":906.575,"endTime":908.475,"body":"I'm sure that's the same for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":906.575,"endTime":908.475,"body":"most grid operators, correct?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":909.335,"endTime":910.0350000000001,"body":"That's very true."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":910.095,"endTime":913.0920000000001,"body":"And I mean, there's"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":910.095,"endTime":913.0920000000001,"body":"different, patterns to that."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":913.202,"endTime":917.5450000000001,"body":"Also, if you look at the different"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":913.202,"endTime":917.5450000000001,"body":"seasons in the year, because some"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":917.7750000000001,"endTime":921.745,"body":"countries use electricity for heating,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":917.7750000000001,"endTime":921.745,"body":"then the demand is higher in winter."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":922.1750000000001,"endTime":925.4250000000001,"body":"Some use electricity for cooling"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":922.1750000000001,"endTime":925.4250000000001,"body":"than their demand and so forth."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":925.952,"endTime":931.325,"body":"So there, there are some patterns"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":925.952,"endTime":931.325,"body":"and there's quite a good level of"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":931.325,"endTime":935.575,"body":"coordination among, transmission"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":931.325,"endTime":935.575,"body":"grid operators in Europe already."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":935.7550000000001,"endTime":940.268,"body":"But if you look to the US and some"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":935.7550000000001,"endTime":940.268,"body":"of the the audience might have"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":940.548,"endTime":945.2280000000001,"body":"watched Bill Gates making pretty"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":940.548,"endTime":945.2280000000001,"body":"significant statements about the grids."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":945.4820000000001,"endTime":949.738,"body":"Then the US is not as well"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":945.4820000000001,"endTime":949.738,"body":"coordinated across their own states."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":950.5980000000001,"endTime":956.4820000000001,"body":"And they are benefiting or working"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":950.5980000000001,"endTime":956.4820000000001,"body":"on, from bigger coordination for"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":956.5020000000001,"endTime":960.682,"body":"the sake of higher efficiency in"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":956.5020000000001,"endTime":960.682,"body":"the end, because otherwise you run"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":960.692,"endTime":962.562,"body":"suboptimal as, as you said earlier,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":962.572,"endTime":963.8820000000001,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":964.182,"endTime":968.202,"body":"We all saw what happened in Ercot,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":964.182,"endTime":968.202,"body":"the, the Texas grid a a few years back"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":968.202,"endTime":969.7620000000001,"body":"when the, the, they had the big freeze."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":969.8720000000001,"endTime":970.802,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":971.022,"endTime":972.442,"body":"And that's a very isolated grid."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":973.422,"endTime":973.642,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":973.702,"endTime":979.628,"body":"And, and that's even a funny story because"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":973.702,"endTime":979.628,"body":"Texas did decide to be isolated and not"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":979.6880000000001,"endTime":982.8620000000001,"body":"to interconnect for interesting reasons."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":983.7650000000001,"endTime":987.225,"body":"But that comes at a pretty high cost,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":983.7650000000001,"endTime":987.225,"body":"either it comes with more outages."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":988.065,"endTime":995.668,"body":"Or it comes with a system that you need"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":988.065,"endTime":995.668,"body":"to lay out for every  kind of, extreme"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":996.148,"endTime":997.908,"body":"situation that you could ever think of."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":998.4480000000001,"endTime":1001.4280000000001,"body":"So either it increases the cost"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":998.4480000000001,"endTime":1001.4280000000001,"body":"or it increases the outages."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1001.7280000000001,"endTime":1010.1320000000001,"body":"So the collaborative model between larger"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1001.7280000000001,"endTime":1010.1320000000001,"body":"pieces of the US has its benefits, and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1010.182,"endTime":1012.442,"body":"that's true for US and also for Europe."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1013.2470000000001,"endTime":1015.6270000000001,"body":"And where, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1013.2470000000001,"endTime":1015.6270000000001,"body":"it's not just interconnects"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1015.6270000000001,"endTime":1016.7470000000001,"body":"for, for keeping stability."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1016.927,"endTime":1019.307,"body":"One of the other big"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1016.927,"endTime":1019.307,"body":"levers that grid operators."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1019.647,"endTime":1023.3770000000001,"body":"Grid operators can start using or have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1019.647,"endTime":1023.3770000000001,"body":"been using for, for a number of decades,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1023.3770000000001,"endTime":1025.457,"body":"depending on the type is storage."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1025.557,"endTime":1029.657,"body":"And when I say the, the type you've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1025.557,"endTime":1029.657,"body":"have, you have pumped hydro is one"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1029.657,"endTime":1030.857,"body":"that has been used for many decades."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1031.097,"endTime":1034.697,"body":"I remember there was a pumped hydro"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1031.097,"endTime":1034.697,"body":"station built in Ireland back in the late"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1034.697,"endTime":1039.397,"body":"sixties, early seventies, and I think it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1034.697,"endTime":1039.397,"body":"was 250 megawatt hours in Turlough Hill."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1040.127,"endTime":1041.977,"body":"Built for many millions"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1040.127,"endTime":1041.977,"body":"of pounds back then."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1042.597,"endTime":1046.292,"body":"But now we're starting to see with"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1042.597,"endTime":1046.292,"body":"the likes of lithium ion batteries"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1046.292,"endTime":1049.052,"body":"and I had a, a podcast episode"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1046.292,"endTime":1049.052,"body":"a few weeks back around vanadium"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1049.052,"endTime":1050.292,"body":"flow batteries, for example."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1050.622,"endTime":1054.852,"body":"These kind of things are now starting to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1050.622,"endTime":1054.852,"body":"make themselves felt on the grid as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1054.992,"endTime":1057.732,"body":"How do you see their role"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1054.992,"endTime":1057.732,"body":"in in grid stability?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1059.352,"endTime":1060.832,"body":"I, I think"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1059.352,"endTime":1060.832,"body":"they're absolutely vital."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1061.152,"endTime":1067.4170000000001,"body":"I mean, to what extent and, like what's"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1061.152,"endTime":1067.4170000000001,"body":"the exact mechanism is something that the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1067.617,"endTime":1070.9370000000001,"body":"industry is still figuring out, and also"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1067.617,"endTime":1070.9370000000001,"body":"what's the best technology to do that."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1071.317,"endTime":1075.017,"body":"But you can definitely see that"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1071.317,"endTime":1075.017,"body":"everybody who has pumped hydro is,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1075.357,"endTime":1080.377,"body":"like in a very, comfortable situation"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1075.357,"endTime":1080.377,"body":"because creating pumped hydro these"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1080.377,"endTime":1082.337,"body":"days is a very, very difficult thing."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1082.96,"endTime":1086.18,"body":"So batteries are much"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1082.96,"endTime":1086.18,"body":"more straightforward."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1086.72,"endTime":1090.373,"body":"And if you look at, I mean, we work"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1086.72,"endTime":1090.373,"body":"quite a bit with California ISO"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1090.99,"endTime":1095.463,"body":"and, and they use batteries, quite"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1090.99,"endTime":1095.463,"body":"significantly already in terms of megawatt"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1095.463,"endTime":1097.083,"body":"and megawatt hours, on their grid."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1098.5700000000002,"endTime":1103.98,"body":"Also like anybody is, like everybody"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1098.5700000000002,"endTime":1103.98,"body":"is, is discussing that, and sometimes"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1103.98,"endTime":1107.7,"body":"the regulation is more favorable"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1103.98,"endTime":1107.7,"body":"in order to execute that fast."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1107.7,"endTime":1112.5720000000001,"body":"And sometimes, regulation makes"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1107.7,"endTime":1112.5720000000001,"body":"that much harder because . for"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1112.5720000000001,"endTime":1116.212,"body":"those who are not that into that"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1112.5720000000001,"endTime":1116.212,"body":"much, into grids, a grid operator"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1116.3120000000001,"endTime":1118.012,"body":"by definition is a, is a monopoly."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1118.2720000000002,"endTime":1125.3980000000001,"body":"And they typically cannot run any other"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1118.2720000000002,"endTime":1125.3980000000001,"body":"business model than just providing"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1125.4850000000001,"endTime":1127.5620000000001,"body":"infrastructure and, stable grids."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1128.7450000000001,"endTime":1133.5220000000002,"body":"And, having a commercially,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1128.7450000000001,"endTime":1133.5220000000002,"body":"operated battery is not always"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1133.5220000000002,"endTime":1134.882,"body":"falling into what they can do."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1135.672,"endTime":1136.0220000000002,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1136.382,"endTime":1136.582,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1136.732,"endTime":1137.0220000000002,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1137.082,"endTime":1138.422,"body":"And what about data?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1138.422,"endTime":1142.3020000000001,"body":"Because, you know, data is starting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1138.422,"endTime":1142.3020000000001,"body":"to impact on everything now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1142.5220000000002,"endTime":1147.722,"body":"How, how critical is data utilization"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1142.5220000000002,"endTime":1147.722,"body":"and grid operations, and what innovative"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1148.382,"endTime":1152.3020000000001,"body":"approaches are being adopted to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1148.382,"endTime":1152.3020000000001,"body":"maximize grid efficiency using data?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1153.242,"endTime":1153.5320000000002,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1154.0320000000002,"endTime":1157.512,"body":"I mean, we've been talking a lot now"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1154.0320000000002,"endTime":1157.512,"body":"about transmission grids and the high"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1157.512,"endTime":1161.432,"body":"voltage lines, and that's what people"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1157.512,"endTime":1161.432,"body":"typically think of because that's the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1161.432,"endTime":1165.352,"body":"most visible part of the grid and the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1161.432,"endTime":1165.352,"body":"most impressive maybe, in terms of size."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1166.4450000000002,"endTime":1170.905,"body":"And in the high voltage grids, you have"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1166.4450000000002,"endTime":1170.905,"body":"a lot of data traditionally, and you, you"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1170.905,"endTime":1172.808,"body":"manage your grids, based on that data."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1173.1580000000001,"endTime":1176.137,"body":"Like every minute, every second, 24 7."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1177.4,"endTime":1181.973,"body":"When we now get to distribution"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1177.4,"endTime":1181.973,"body":"grids, which is more than 50% of,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1182.233,"endTime":1186.913,"body":"of the grid, when you, you count it"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1182.233,"endTime":1186.913,"body":"in kilometers, then, that's where"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1186.913,"endTime":1191.473,"body":"the fun starts, let's say because"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1186.913,"endTime":1191.473,"body":"traditionally you don't have any data."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1191.7830000000001,"endTime":1195.193,"body":"Traditionally this is"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1191.7830000000001,"endTime":1195.193,"body":"assumed to be a copper plate."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1195.4930000000002,"endTime":1201.058,"body":"That means   electricity is just flowing"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1195.4930000000002,"endTime":1201.058,"body":"and you don't actually observe the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1201.4180000000001,"endTime":1205.458,"body":"electricity to to flow, so you don't know."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1205.838,"endTime":1211.9080000000001,"body":"You just assume  where like, at which"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1205.838,"endTime":1211.9080000000001,"body":"part of the grid, the grid is loaded."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1212.008,"endTime":1212.468,"body":"How much?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1213.505,"endTime":1216.925,"body":"So for instance, if you boil it down"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1213.505,"endTime":1216.925,"body":"to a transformer that might be at"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1216.925,"endTime":1221.078,"body":"the end of, of your street, then"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1216.925,"endTime":1221.078,"body":"a grid operator wouldn't know how"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1221.078,"endTime":1225.535,"body":"much capacity of that transformer"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1221.078,"endTime":1225.535,"body":"is used at any given point in time."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1226.275,"endTime":1230.7350000000001,"body":"So they might kind of go there,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1226.275,"endTime":1230.7350000000001,"body":"look into it once a year and see"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1230.765,"endTime":1236.16,"body":"like what was the maximum load, but"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1230.765,"endTime":1236.16,"body":"they've no transparency on typically"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1236.16,"endTime":1237.3200000000002,"body":"of, of what's happening there."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1238.22,"endTime":1243.76,"body":"Now, thinking about how I can increase"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1238.22,"endTime":1243.76,"body":"capacity and how I can manage a"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1243.76,"endTime":1248.0800000000002,"body":"grid successfully, which has become"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1243.76,"endTime":1248.0800000000002,"body":"so complicated, I need to know."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1248.4,"endTime":1251.6000000000001,"body":"I cannot just blindly let it flow."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1252.16,"endTime":1254.3600000000001,"body":"I need to know how"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1252.16,"endTime":1254.3600000000001,"body":"loaded my transformer is."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1254.88,"endTime":1259.88,"body":"I need to know whether there's 5%"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1254.88,"endTime":1259.88,"body":"capacity left or 60% of capacity left."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1260.865,"endTime":1262.875,"body":"And, that is where data comes in."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1263.255,"endTime":1268.1950000000002,"body":"So now you need to make sure that you"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1263.255,"endTime":1268.1950000000002,"body":"get the data, you process the data,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1268.375,"endTime":1274.035,"body":"and you make meaningful insights"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1268.375,"endTime":1274.035,"body":"out of that data in order to take"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1275.488,"endTime":1277.588,"body":"decisions for both planning purposes."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1277.608,"endTime":1279.3880000000001,"body":"So where do I need to increase my grid?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1280.0130000000001,"endTime":1285.483,"body":"Or increase the capacity and, but also for"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1280.0130000000001,"endTime":1285.483,"body":"operations purposes, what do I need to do?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1285.483,"endTime":1288.723,"body":"Where do I need to counteract in"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1285.483,"endTime":1288.723,"body":"order to keep that grid stable and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1288.723,"endTime":1291.6200000000001,"body":"to have power flows run efficiently?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1292.96,"endTime":1296.5700000000002,"body":"Okay, and how"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1292.96,"endTime":1296.5700000000002,"body":"are we collecting this data"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1296.79,"endTime":1300.13,"body":"and how do we use that then to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1296.79,"endTime":1300.13,"body":"increase capacity on the grid?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1301.415,"endTime":1303.525,"body":"Great question"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1301.415,"endTime":1303.525,"body":"because there's a traditional"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1303.805,"endTime":1305.685,"body":"approach and, and a new one."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1305.685,"endTime":1309.165,"body":"The traditional approach would take"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1305.685,"endTime":1309.165,"body":"the paradigm that we've always had."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1309.165,"endTime":1311.155,"body":"We put sensors everywhere, right?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1311.525,"endTime":1316.5220000000002,"body":"Every transformer a sensor and, but the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1311.525,"endTime":1316.5220000000002,"body":"thing is this is a very slow approach"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1316.5420000000001,"endTime":1318.5620000000001,"body":"and also a very costly approach."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1319.142,"endTime":1326.0520000000001,"body":"If I take the vast grid that, we have in"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1319.142,"endTime":1326.0520000000001,"body":"a lot of cities, then rolling out sensors"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1326.0520000000001,"endTime":1327.5320000000002,"body":"there and installing them everywhere."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1328.092,"endTime":1332.5420000000001,"body":"I mean, it's a lot of, equipment,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1328.092,"endTime":1332.5420000000001,"body":"it is a lot of logistics."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1332.5720000000001,"endTime":1335.055,"body":"It's a lot of people involved."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1335.682,"endTime":1339.702,"body":"So that, that, that is the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1335.682,"endTime":1339.702,"body":"first reflex of everyone."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1340.4550000000002,"endTime":1343.035,"body":"We would argue that there's"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1340.4550000000002,"endTime":1343.035,"body":"smarter ways of doing that."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1343.7450000000001,"endTime":1347.765,"body":"And we do actually have sensors out"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1343.7450000000001,"endTime":1347.765,"body":"there, which is the smart meters."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1348.3200000000002,"endTime":1348.67,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1348.905,"endTime":1353.565,"body":"Um, and so far we've"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1348.905,"endTime":1353.565,"body":"been completely underusing those sensors."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1354.422,"endTime":1359.6180000000002,"body":"And we've also been underusing the power"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1354.422,"endTime":1359.6180000000002,"body":"of software and the power of artificial"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1359.6180000000002,"endTime":1362.3780000000002,"body":"intelligence to make sense of that data"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1363.348,"endTime":1363.6380000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1365.038,"endTime":1367.098,"body":"The"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1365.038,"endTime":1367.098,"body":"interesting thing is there's"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1367.098,"endTime":1368.4180000000001,"body":"where the paradigms are shifting."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1368.8780000000002,"endTime":1372.778,"body":"You might not be as accurate as"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1368.8780000000002,"endTime":1372.778,"body":"you are in the transmission grid."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1373.438,"endTime":1374.578,"body":"But it also doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1375.038,"endTime":1381.258,"body":"If I don't have transparency at all"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1375.038,"endTime":1381.258,"body":"and I can increase it by 95%, I have"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1381.258,"endTime":1385.738,"body":"95% more and I shouldn't complain"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1381.258,"endTime":1385.738,"body":"about the 5% that I still don't have."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1386.768,"endTime":1391.472,"body":"So that's a really, really"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1386.768,"endTime":1391.472,"body":"interesting discussion these days."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1391.5720000000001,"endTime":1394.7920000000001,"body":"Or also a very interesting"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1391.5720000000001,"endTime":1394.7920000000001,"body":"proposition that we are making to"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1394.7920000000001,"endTime":1399.707,"body":"the market is to really attack the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1394.7920000000001,"endTime":1399.707,"body":"problem of especially low voltage."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1399.887,"endTime":1404.91,"body":"So we go from high to all the way"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1399.887,"endTime":1404.91,"body":"down to low voltage, transparency and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1405.28,"endTime":1410.15,"body":"understand and manage those grids at"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1405.28,"endTime":1410.15,"body":"the lowest voltage levels in a and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1410.15,"endTime":1411.95,"body":"the DERs in a very professional way."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1412.96,"endTime":1413.25,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1413.25,"endTime":1419.53,"body":"And just to kind of give some context,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1413.25,"endTime":1419.53,"body":"can you again, remind people why it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1419.53,"endTime":1423.01,"body":"important to increase the capacities"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1419.53,"endTime":1423.01,"body":"on the grid, how much we need to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1423.17,"endTime":1426.21,"body":"increase it, and by when, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1423.17,"endTime":1426.21,"body":"what kind of the timeframes and, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1426.21,"endTime":1430.6100000000001,"body":"the challenges are, because one of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1426.21,"endTime":1430.6100000000001,"body":"big challenges for infrastructure is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1430.6100000000001,"endTime":1433.3300000000002,"body":"getting regulatory sign off, right?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1434.42,"endTime":1434.64,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1435.22,"endTime":1439.96,"body":"So I mean, we said in the beginning"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1435.22,"endTime":1439.96,"body":"of our conversations, we are roughly"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1439.96,"endTime":1443.8,"body":"thinking about doubling the grid"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1439.96,"endTime":1443.8,"body":"capacity in anything between seven"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1443.98,"endTime":1445.68,"body":"and 12 years in many countries."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1445.98,"endTime":1451.76,"body":"So the way I think about it, we've built"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1445.98,"endTime":1451.76,"body":"a grid in the last hundred years, and now"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1451.8600000000001,"endTime":1453.56,"body":"we have to build it again in the next 10."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1454.18,"endTime":1456.16,"body":"So the challenge is enormous."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1457.2150000000001,"endTime":1462.755,"body":"Now, if I think about doubling capacity,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1457.2150000000001,"endTime":1462.755,"body":"just by putting out more lines, putting"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1462.775,"endTime":1465.1950000000002,"body":"out more cables, it's a huge task."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1466.015,"endTime":1470.755,"body":"But if I think about, Hey, how"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1466.015,"endTime":1470.755,"body":"loaded is my transformer actually?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1471.385,"endTime":1476.482,"body":"Like, oh, I still have 60% capacity"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1471.385,"endTime":1476.482,"body":"as a buffer in my transformer."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1477.837,"endTime":1484.1470000000002,"body":"Maybe I can use a little bit more of"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1477.837,"endTime":1484.1470000000002,"body":"that transformer safely without risking"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1484.1470000000002,"endTime":1486.1870000000001,"body":"grid stability issues or anything."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1486.6770000000001,"endTime":1491.227,"body":"Maybe I can man, like ask"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1486.6770000000001,"endTime":1491.227,"body":"some prosumers as we call 'em."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1491.227,"endTime":1494.107,"body":"So EV drivers, people who"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1491.227,"endTime":1494.107,"body":"have a heat pump and so forth."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1494.317,"endTime":1500.267,"body":"Maybe I can ask them to shift a"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1494.317,"endTime":1500.267,"body":"little bit load to like occupy that"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1500.547,"endTime":1501.987,"body":"transformer still in a safe way."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1502.4070000000002,"endTime":1504.4270000000001,"body":"But the basis for that is transparency."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1504.967,"endTime":1509.642,"body":"So the kind of understanding"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1504.967,"endTime":1509.642,"body":"what's happening in the grid is"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1510.352,"endTime":1513.932,"body":"like, there's a, a saying what you"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1510.352,"endTime":1513.932,"body":"can't measure, you can't manage."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1514.392,"endTime":1516.602,"body":"And that applies to grids as well."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1516.902,"endTime":1521.3220000000001,"body":"So if we have the, the challenge of"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1516.902,"endTime":1521.3220000000001,"body":"doubling grid capacity, we should"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1521.3220000000001,"endTime":1527.202,"body":"better look at where we still have"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1521.3220000000001,"endTime":1527.202,"body":"some capacities left that we are not"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1527.202,"endTime":1532.928,"body":"using, or using as a buffer so far,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1527.202,"endTime":1532.928,"body":"because that's likely the fastest"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1533.4080000000001,"endTime":1534.768,"body":"possible way to increase the capacity."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1535.938,"endTime":1537.8880000000001,"body":"Makes sense, makes sense, and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1538.3780000000002,"endTime":1538.598,"body":"and,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1539.048,"endTime":1539.1280000000002,"body":"on."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1540.058,"endTime":1540.348,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1540.448,"endTime":1543.655,"body":"One more thing because that's,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1540.448,"endTime":1543.655,"body":"a super interesting stat."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1544.055,"endTime":1545.775,"body":"I mean, we talk about decarbonization."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1546.385,"endTime":1553.517,"body":"There is  terawatts, of renewables"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1546.385,"endTime":1553.517,"body":"waiting for being able to connect"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1553.517,"endTime":1555.73,"body":"because of missing, grid capacity."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1556.27,"endTime":1563.637,"body":"So it is not only inefficient, like how"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1556.27,"endTime":1563.637,"body":"do I not spend the money to extend my"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1563.637,"endTime":1566.797,"body":"grid physically, but the speed matters."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1567.057,"endTime":1569.077,"body":"If we have wind parks"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1567.057,"endTime":1569.077,"body":"that are not connected."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1569.097,"endTime":1573.7920000000001,"body":"If we have  PV owners who call"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1569.097,"endTime":1573.7920000000001,"body":"their utilities and, and don't"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1573.852,"endTime":1578.152,"body":"get the connection of their PV on"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1573.852,"endTime":1578.152,"body":"their roof, we are losing momentum."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1578.332,"endTime":1579.592,"body":"We are creating frustration."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1579.692,"endTime":1582.872,"body":"We are diverting the investment"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1579.692,"endTime":1582.872,"body":"and we are really getting back"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1582.872,"endTime":1583.912,"body":"to what you said initially."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1584.172,"endTime":1587.832,"body":"The grids are becoming the bottleneck"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1584.172,"endTime":1587.832,"body":"of the energy transition because"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1587.842,"endTime":1593.352,"body":"those renewables can't connect"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1587.842,"endTime":1593.352,"body":"and factories can't electrify."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1594.285,"endTime":1595.585,"body":"its missing grid connection."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1596.0,"endTime":1597.89,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1596.0,"endTime":1597.89,"body":"no, I saw an example of that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1598.2,"endTime":1600.3300000000002,"body":"just here in Spain recently."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1600.89,"endTime":1604.69,"body":"I go to Cadiz from"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1600.89,"endTime":1604.69,"body":"Seville reasonably often."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1604.72,"endTime":1608.97,"body":"It's about 120 kilometers from from"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1604.72,"endTime":1608.97,"body":"Seville, Cadiz, and on the road"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1608.97,"endTime":1613.97,"body":"there between Seville and Jerez on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1608.97,"endTime":1613.97,"body":"the lefthand side of the motorway."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1614.43,"endTime":1616.6000000000001,"body":"There's a wind park,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1614.43,"endTime":1616.6000000000001,"body":"a brand new wind park."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1616.72,"endTime":1623.16,"body":"It was only built in the last 18 months,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1616.72,"endTime":1623.16,"body":"and they are enormous, enormous turbines."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1623.627,"endTime":1627.16,"body":"There, there's a lot of, wind generation"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1623.627,"endTime":1627.16,"body":"here in the south of Spain particularly,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1627.16,"endTime":1630.68,"body":"Andalucia around the Cadiz area, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1627.16,"endTime":1630.68,"body":"this new wind park or the largest"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1630.8400000000001,"endTime":1632.28,"body":"turbines I've, I've seen, I think."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1633.6200000000001,"endTime":1639.26,"body":"And they were up probably eight months"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1633.6200000000001,"endTime":1639.26,"body":"or so before they started spinning."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1639.72,"endTime":1643.78,"body":"And I'm guessing it was that, I'm guessing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1639.72,"endTime":1643.78,"body":"it took a while to get them connected to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1643.78,"endTime":1647.18,"body":"the grid for whether it was regulatory"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1643.78,"endTime":1647.18,"body":"reasons or whatever, or capacity."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1647.68,"endTime":1650.74,"body":"But I, I passed them yesterday,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1647.68,"endTime":1650.74,"body":"and yesterday the first time"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1650.78,"endTime":1652.22,"body":"I saw them actually spinning."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1652.22,"endTime":1653.18,"body":"So that was great to see."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1654.21,"endTime":1656.5800000000002,"body":"Yeah, I, I would agree."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1656.66,"endTime":1659.6570000000002,"body":"I, that would be my first suspicion"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1656.66,"endTime":1659.6570000000002,"body":"as well, that this was because"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1659.6570000000002,"endTime":1660.737,"body":"of missing grid connections."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1661.037,"endTime":1670.342,"body":"If you look at a major provider of data"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1661.037,"endTime":1670.342,"body":"centers actually, told me that  one out"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1670.342,"endTime":1676.035,"body":"of three criteria for where they locate"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1670.342,"endTime":1676.035,"body":"their data center, was grid connection."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1676.66,"endTime":1676.95,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1678.025,"endTime":1682.702,"body":"So, and I mean,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1678.025,"endTime":1682.702,"body":"data centers with AI, consumes an X"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1682.702,"endTime":1689.777,"body":"fold of energy of electricity then"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1682.702,"endTime":1689.777,"body":"normal data centers, so the the the data"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1689.777,"endTime":1694.4270000000001,"body":"centers like in terms of electricity"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1689.777,"endTime":1694.4270000000001,"body":"consumption, their entire states by"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1694.4470000000001,"endTime":1695.987,"body":"now, if you, if you make the math."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1696.327,"endTime":1696.617,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1696.617,"endTime":1696.817,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1696.817,"endTime":1700.577,"body":"And in fact, I'm a, I, I have a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1696.817,"endTime":1700.577,"body":"background in data center development,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1700.577,"endTime":1704.227,"body":"which is kind of irrelevant to this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1700.577,"endTime":1704.227,"body":"generally, but, one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1704.267,"endTime":1707.827,"body":"I remember thinking about at the time"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1704.267,"endTime":1707.827,"body":"was data centers are a massive battery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1708.327,"endTime":1713.1470000000002,"body":"And so they could take part in demand"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1708.327,"endTime":1713.1470000000002,"body":"response programs quite easily because"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1713.1470000000002,"endTime":1718.892,"body":"they've got generation on-site and they've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1713.1470000000002,"endTime":1718.892,"body":"got batteries on-site, so they could very"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1718.892,"endTime":1723.972,"body":"easily go off grid at times of peak demand"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1718.892,"endTime":1723.972,"body":"and you know, take on board any credits"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1723.972,"endTime":1724.932,"body":"or anything that they get for that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1724.952,"endTime":1727.652,"body":"But like I say, that's, we're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1724.952,"endTime":1727.652,"body":"going way off topic now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1728.432,"endTime":1728.652,"body":". Um."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1728.982,"endTime":1731.472,"body":"It, it, it's an"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1728.982,"endTime":1731.472,"body":"interesting thing though I, because"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1731.592,"endTime":1735.958,"body":"I asked that, person from that"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1731.592,"endTime":1735.958,"body":"big data center company and asked"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1735.988,"endTime":1741.1180000000002,"body":"like, Hey, but you are so big, if"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1735.988,"endTime":1741.1180000000002,"body":"anyone, I mean, why don't you just"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1741.1180000000002,"endTime":1743.1180000000002,"body":"produce your electricity yourself?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1743.605,"endTime":1747.185,"body":"You make yourself autonomous"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1743.605,"endTime":1747.185,"body":"and you, you don't need a grid."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1747.255,"endTime":1750.425,"body":"Like if, if that is one of your"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1747.255,"endTime":1750.425,"body":"biggest bottlenecks and the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1750.425,"endTime":1754.593,"body":"biggest criteria for looking for"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1750.425,"endTime":1754.593,"body":"where to build the next location."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1755.2930000000001,"endTime":1756.423,"body":"And then, she said."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1757.623,"endTime":1758.593,"body":", this is not possible."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1758.733,"endTime":1763.873,"body":"We are consuming so much, and the level"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1758.733,"endTime":1763.873,"body":"of reliability that we need is something"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1763.873,"endTime":1765.353,"body":"that we can't produce ourselves."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1765.713,"endTime":1769.9930000000002,"body":"I mean, yes, you have a backup generator"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1765.713,"endTime":1769.9930000000002,"body":"of course, but that will only get you"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1769.9930000000002,"endTime":1772.23,"body":"through to a certain period of time."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1772.89,"endTime":1777.3500000000001,"body":"And the stability that a proper"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1772.89,"endTime":1777.3500000000001,"body":"and well-managed grid provides"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1777.65,"endTime":1782.5430000000001,"body":"is something that even the, the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1777.65,"endTime":1782.5430000000001,"body":"hyperscalers can't produce themselves."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1782.833,"endTime":1787.623,"body":"So that was a pretty impressive"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1782.833,"endTime":1787.623,"body":"statement because of like, I hear that"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1787.863,"endTime":1791.71,"body":"argument so often, but then we just"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1787.863,"endTime":1791.71,"body":"make ourselves independent, of the grid."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1792.77,"endTime":1799.52,"body":"If even one of the hyperscaler"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1792.77,"endTime":1799.52,"body":"tells you that they can't, then I"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1799.52,"endTime":1803.563,"body":"assume there there is an advantage"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1799.52,"endTime":1803.563,"body":"of public infrastructure and I mean,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1803.563,"endTime":1806.323,"body":"we were talking about Infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1803.563,"endTime":1806.323,"body":"Transition Monitor in the beginning."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1806.803,"endTime":1809.863,"body":"It really is that level"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1806.803,"endTime":1809.863,"body":"of competitive advantage."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1809.923,"endTime":1815.403,"body":"If you have a great infrastructure as a"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1809.923,"endTime":1815.403,"body":"country or as a, as a region, then it,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1815.5030000000002,"endTime":1821.507,"body":"it does matter for attracting, attracting"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1815.5030000000002,"endTime":1821.507,"body":"industry for like creating workplaces."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1822.207,"endTime":1825.627,"body":"So it, I think it's, it is an"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1822.207,"endTime":1825.627,"body":"impor underestimated topic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1826.232,"endTime":1826.5220000000002,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1826.5220000000002,"endTime":1827.002,"body":"Fair enough."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1827.002,"endTime":1827.482,"body":"Fair enough."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1828.342,"endTime":1833.7720000000002,"body":"Can you talk to me a little bit then about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1828.342,"endTime":1833.7720000000002,"body":"the role of cross industrial collaboration"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1833.942,"endTime":1836.0420000000001,"body":"in driving the energy transition?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1836.422,"endTime":1840.722,"body":"And if you have any good examples that you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1836.422,"endTime":1840.722,"body":"can, you can talk to, that'd be fantastic."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1842.902,"endTime":1843.5420000000001,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1843.5420000000001,"endTime":1847.932,"body":"I mean you're touching upon a a great"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1843.5420000000001,"endTime":1847.932,"body":"point 'cause I mean, we've, we've"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1847.932,"endTime":1852.458,"body":"highlighted the challenges, of the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1847.932,"endTime":1852.458,"body":"energy transition, especially on grids,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1852.458,"endTime":1857.018,"body":"especially on bringing transparency to the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1852.458,"endTime":1857.018,"body":"grids, being able to manage grids better."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1857.887,"endTime":1862.0900000000001,"body":"If you look at that, more closely,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1857.887,"endTime":1862.0900000000001,"body":"you actually start to understand"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1863.06,"endTime":1864.79,"body":"how big of a task that is."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1865.207,"endTime":1870.4370000000001,"body":"Just to think about a utility, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1865.207,"endTime":1870.4370000000001,"body":"it's, you ask a utility both to be great"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1870.4370000000001,"endTime":1877.607,"body":"in consumer engagement, great in kind of"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1870.4370000000001,"endTime":1877.607,"body":"communicating to you, to the household to"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1877.607,"endTime":1881.153,"body":"do give me hints for how I save energy."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1882.248,"endTime":1886.595,"body":"And, and, and really have that engagement"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1882.248,"endTime":1886.595,"body":"level on the other hand side, you look"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1886.615,"endTime":1892.915,"body":"for a super stable control room, and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1886.615,"endTime":1892.915,"body":"the pros in running the grid stably,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1892.915,"endTime":1896.795,"body":"understanding every outage, coordinating"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1892.915,"endTime":1896.795,"body":"with the surrounding grid operators."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1897.415,"endTime":1897.635,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1899.287,"endTime":1904.8970000000002,"body":"there's a lot of, kind of the, the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1899.287,"endTime":1904.8970000000002,"body":"task at hand is, is really big to"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1905.1870000000001,"endTime":1911.262,"body":"transition, that way of managing grids"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1905.1870000000001,"endTime":1911.262,"body":"from like marketing in consumer end"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1911.402,"endTime":1913.515,"body":"to, hardcore control room if you like."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1914.165,"endTime":1918.065,"body":"And then if you look at the collaboration"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1914.165,"endTime":1918.065,"body":"between utilities, you have the high"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1918.065,"endTime":1922.105,"body":"voltage needs or the transmission"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1918.065,"endTime":1922.105,"body":"needs to collaborate with distribution."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1922.325,"endTime":1926.665,"body":"The transmission operators need"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1922.325,"endTime":1926.665,"body":"to collaborate across and we"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1926.665,"endTime":1930.585,"body":"as technology providers need to"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1926.665,"endTime":1930.585,"body":"collaborate in order to make it easy"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1930.845,"endTime":1936.125,"body":"for those utilities to  to get their"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1930.845,"endTime":1936.125,"body":"digitalization strategies realized."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1936.698,"endTime":1938.838,"body":"That's why I think we"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1936.698,"endTime":1938.838,"body":"all need to join forces."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1939.3680000000002,"endTime":1944.592,"body":"Like my team is working on that heavily,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1939.3680000000002,"endTime":1944.592,"body":"to really partner and team up and,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1944.682,"endTime":1946.7720000000002,"body":"get the speed into this industry."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1946.892,"endTime":1949.972,"body":"I mean, if anything, this"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1946.892,"endTime":1949.972,"body":"industry has never been fast."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1951.202,"endTime":1958.597,"body":"And,  and you can only get fast if"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1951.202,"endTime":1958.597,"body":"you, if you take out the complexity"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1958.737,"endTime":1963.377,"body":"and, run collectively into one"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1958.737,"endTime":1963.377,"body":"direction and just get certain"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1963.377,"endTime":1966.827,"body":"processes done much, much faster."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1967.8980000000001,"endTime":1968.538,"body":"Cool, cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1969.298,"endTime":1973.338,"body":"Sabine, we're coming towards"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1969.298,"endTime":1973.338,"body":"the end of 2023, and so this is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1973.338,"endTime":1977.498,"body":"kind of the traditional time of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1973.338,"endTime":1977.498,"body":"year for asking for predictions,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1977.798,"endTime":1983.768,"body":"so . What would be your predictions"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1977.798,"endTime":1983.768,"body":"for the grids of 2024 and beyond?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1987.288,"endTime":1990.048,"body":"Look, I,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1987.288,"endTime":1990.048,"body":"I think we are looking at an"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1990.1580000000001,"endTime":1992.0420000000001,"body":"exponential development here."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1992.915,"endTime":1996.575,"body":"And we've just, I mean, in,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1992.915,"endTime":1996.575,"body":"in Corona, we unfortunately"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1996.605,"endTime":1998.4550000000002,"body":"learned what exponential means."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1998.9950000000001,"endTime":2001.4550000000002,"body":"So you don't see nothing"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":1998.9950000000001,"endTime":2001.4550000000002,"body":"until you, it's too late."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2002.362,"endTime":2005.882,"body":"And the same is somehow true for grids."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2006.232,"endTime":2011.5620000000001,"body":"This shifting towards distributed"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2006.232,"endTime":2011.5620000000001,"body":"and renewable energy resources, the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2011.962,"endTime":2013.842,"body":"proliferation of electric vehicles."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2014.582,"endTime":2021.1380000000001,"body":"There will be that inflection point,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2014.582,"endTime":2021.1380000000001,"body":"and we are at it, or nearing it, much"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2021.5520000000001,"endTime":2024.665,"body":"closer than we would intuitively think."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2026.15,"endTime":2030.39,"body":"And then it's very difficult and,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2026.15,"endTime":2030.39,"body":"potentially too late to react."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2030.8970000000002,"endTime":2034.477,"body":"So we already see renewables"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2030.8970000000002,"endTime":2034.477,"body":"not being able to connect."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2034.537,"endTime":2037.643,"body":"We already seeing quality"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2034.537,"endTime":2037.643,"body":"of service going down."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2037.7430000000002,"endTime":2039.723,"body":"We already see rates going up."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2040.457,"endTime":2044.957,"body":"So there's very little time"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2040.457,"endTime":2044.957,"body":"if no time left to react."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2045.5,"endTime":2054.812,"body":"And every estimate on  how DERs, EVs, heat"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2045.5,"endTime":2054.812,"body":"pumps, you name it, have been corrected"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2054.882,"endTime":2057.278,"body":"upwards in the la last couple of years."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2057.898,"endTime":2062.118,"body":"And it's even in a pace of six months"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2057.898,"endTime":2062.118,"body":"now that you're correcting those upwards."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2062.778,"endTime":2066.932,"body":"So I think we will see a"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2062.778,"endTime":2066.932,"body":"dynamic imminently, that,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2068.022,"endTime":2069.362,"body":"we might not have expected."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2070.287,"endTime":2074.627,"body":"and do you think we'll get"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2070.287,"endTime":2074.627,"body":"to triple the renewables by 2030 as the,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2074.647,"endTime":2076.867,"body":"uh, as people are saying we need to?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2078.8070000000002,"endTime":2083.8070000000002,"body":"I am an, uh,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2078.8070000000002,"endTime":2083.8070000000002,"body":"eternal optimist and I do believe in the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2083.8070000000002,"endTime":2089.927,"body":"power of small independent decisions,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2083.8070000000002,"endTime":2089.927,"body":"so I'm not necessarily betting on"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2090.317,"endTime":2094.167,"body":"only on the big wind farms and the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2090.317,"endTime":2094.167,"body":"offshore wind parks and so forth."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2095.2870000000003,"endTime":2096.727,"body":"I think the power of."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2098.012,"endTime":2101.8920000000003,"body":"I mean, I just look out of my window"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2098.012,"endTime":2101.8920000000003,"body":"here and there's still so many roofs"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2101.8920000000003,"endTime":2107.092,"body":"that don't have pv and the, the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2101.8920000000003,"endTime":2107.092,"body":"economics of that I just come back"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2107.122,"endTime":2110.975,"body":"from, Estonia and of all countries."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2111.055,"endTime":2114.175,"body":"I mean, Estonia, that's up in"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2111.055,"endTime":2114.175,"body":"the north there somewhere, right?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2114.42,"endTime":2115.2400000000002,"body":"The Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2115.925,"endTime":2123.978,"body":"yeah, the Baltics"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2115.925,"endTime":2123.978,"body":"and they had in summer, 78% of their,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2124.815,"endTime":2128.725,"body":"electricity in one day, provided by solar,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2128.725,"endTime":2129.005,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2130.122,"endTime":2131.972,"body":"Estonia solar, right?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2132.4320000000002,"endTime":2139.132,"body":"And the, the grid is, has seen an ex"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2132.4320000000002,"endTime":2139.132,"body":"like 15 x increase in connection requests"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2139.132,"endTime":2141.252,"body":"for solar, just wi within two years."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2142.137,"endTime":2149.607,"body":"And it's a lot of independent decisions"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2142.137,"endTime":2149.607,"body":"by independent house owners and so forth."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2149.977,"endTime":2152.997,"body":"So those types of independent"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2149.977,"endTime":2152.997,"body":"decisions can give you a dynamic"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2153.9500000000003,"endTime":2155.4,"body":"that can be extremely fast."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2155.61,"endTime":2158.04,"body":"Think about the iPhone at the time, right?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2158.79,"endTime":2162.73,"body":"Nobody had a smartphone and all of"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2158.79,"endTime":2162.73,"body":"a sudden everybody had smartphone."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2165.0750000000003,"endTime":2168.8450000000003,"body":"Like the investment cycles for cars"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2165.0750000000003,"endTime":2168.8450000000003,"body":"are a little bit longer than for phones"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2169.978,"endTime":2171.558,"body":"but there will be that tipping point."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2172.308,"endTime":2173.638,"body":"Same thing with heat pumps."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2173.638,"endTime":2174.678,"body":"Same thing with solar."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2175.148,"endTime":2176.558,"body":"It's independent decisions."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2176.558,"endTime":2184.112,"body":"And as soon as they make commercial and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2176.558,"endTime":2184.112,"body":"societal sense people act very quickly."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2185.092,"endTime":2191.117,"body":"And, and then you get that kind of"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2185.092,"endTime":2191.117,"body":"exponential growth curve in motion."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2191.257,"endTime":2196.357,"body":"And again, I'm an eternal optimist,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2191.257,"endTime":2196.357,"body":"for people to take the right choices."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2196.997,"endTime":2197.237,"body":"Good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2197.3070000000002,"endTime":2197.877,"body":"Good, good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2198.087,"endTime":2200.277,"body":"We're coming towards the end"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2198.087,"endTime":2200.277,"body":"of the podcast now, Sabine."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2200.297,"endTime":2205.437,"body":"Is there any question I didn't ask that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2200.297,"endTime":2205.437,"body":"you wish I had or any aspect of this we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2205.437,"endTime":2208.117,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2205.437,"endTime":2208.117,"body":"important for people to be aware of?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2210.482,"endTime":2212.9120000000003,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2210.482,"endTime":2212.9120000000003,"body":"we co covered many things."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2213.472,"endTime":2216.832,"body":"I think the thing to maybe to"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2213.472,"endTime":2216.832,"body":"think about is, is speed and"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2217.072,"endTime":2219.362,"body":"collaboration, and what it takes."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2219.622,"endTime":2221.842,"body":"I'm a technology provider,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2219.622,"endTime":2221.842,"body":"so I can't help it."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2222.288,"endTime":2228.083,"body":"So what it takes is really an open"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2222.288,"endTime":2228.083,"body":"approach to technology, a flexible"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2228.363,"endTime":2233.82,"body":"approach, a modular approach to, to"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2228.363,"endTime":2233.82,"body":"everything, from IT to OT to IoT."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2234.34,"endTime":2239.7000000000003,"body":"Because that in, in the end, enables"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2234.34,"endTime":2239.7000000000003,"body":"the power that software can unfold, the"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2239.7000000000003,"endTime":2241.82,"body":"power that digitalization can unfold."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2242.36,"endTime":2247.89,"body":"And if we get an agreement, across"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2242.36,"endTime":2247.89,"body":"vendors, across parties, that"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2248.19,"endTime":2249.9700000000003,"body":"we standardize, we are open,."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2250.61,"endTime":2251.79,"body":"we can click and connect."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2251.87,"endTime":2254.9500000000003,"body":"I mean, we've seen that with a"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2251.87,"endTime":2254.9500000000003,"body":"lot of standards around the world."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2255.697,"endTime":2260.5170000000003,"body":"Then we can be very fast and, if"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2255.697,"endTime":2260.5170000000003,"body":"anything, we don't have is time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2261.977,"endTime":2263.187,"body":"True, true, true."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2263.187,"endTime":2263.747,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2264.2670000000003,"endTime":2265.747,"body":"Sabine, that's been really interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2266.167,"endTime":2269.667,"body":"If people would like to know more"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2266.167,"endTime":2269.667,"body":"about yourself or any of the things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2269.667,"endTime":2272.747,"body":"we discussed on the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2269.667,"endTime":2272.747,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2273.852,"endTime":2275.372,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2273.852,"endTime":2275.372,"body":"the energy transition report"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2275.372,"endTime":2277.132,"body":"is certainly a great one."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2277.252,"endTime":2278.972,"body":"I was fortunate to also share"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2279.035,"endTime":2280.315,"body":"some of my thoughts there."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2281.07,"endTime":2286.783,"body":"And then of course, the Siemens website,"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2281.07,"endTime":2286.783,"body":"and also the accelerator view on that."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2286.783,"endTime":2288.773,"body":"That's our digitalization brand."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2289.363,"endTime":2290.353,"body":"Both are great places."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2290.9,"endTime":2294.06,"body":"And of course LinkedIn, if"},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2290.9,"endTime":2294.06,"body":"you wanna catch me personally."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2294.855,"endTime":2295.0950000000003,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2295.285,"endTime":2298.335,"body":"Fantastic, Sabine, thanks a million"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2295.285,"endTime":2298.335,"body":"for coming on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Sabine Erlinghagen","startTime":2299.42,"endTime":2299.7000000000003,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2301.034,"endTime":2302.904,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2301.034,"endTime":2302.904,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2303.6240000000003,"endTime":2304.734,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2305.594,"endTime":2309.744,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2305.594,"endTime":2309.744,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2309.754,"endTime":2313.664,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2313.914,"endTime":2317.3940000000002,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2317.964,"endTime":2321.704,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2317.964,"endTime":2321.704,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2321.724,"endTime":2326.204,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2321.724,"endTime":2326.204,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2326.834,"endTime":2329.794,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2326.834,"endTime":2329.794,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2329.994,"endTime":2332.524,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2329.994,"endTime":2332.524,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2333.614,"endTime":2334.064,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2334.734,"endTime":2335.654,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}