{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":3.772,"endTime":7.612,"body":"The most important"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":3.772,"endTime":7.612,"body":"thing that we can do as climate activists,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":7.612,"endTime":12.042,"body":"or people who are just concerned about"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":7.612,"endTime":12.042,"body":"climate, is to, to go through those steps,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":12.042,"endTime":15.942,"body":"to recognize that we're not alone, and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":12.042,"endTime":15.942,"body":"even if we're taking small steps that are"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":15.962,"endTime":20.757,"body":"easy for other people to diminish to say,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":15.962,"endTime":20.757,"body":"Oh, that's, that's not going to do any"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":20.757,"endTime":25.427,"body":"good to know that well, yes, it's doing"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":20.757,"endTime":25.427,"body":"good because it's keeping me going to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":25.427,"endTime":30.437,"body":"these meetings or sending these letters to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":25.427,"endTime":30.437,"body":"my representatives or whatever it may be."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.972,"endTime":33.042,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.972,"endTime":33.042,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":33.052,"endTime":34.552,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.872,"endTime":38.602,"body":"This is the Climate Confident"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.872,"endTime":38.602,"body":"podcast, the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":38.742,"endTime":42.512,"body":"showcasing best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":38.742,"endTime":42.512,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.942,"endTime":44.882,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.042,"endTime":48.802,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.042,"endTime":48.802,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.962,"endTime":51.322,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":52.781,"endTime":53.321,"body":"Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.321,"endTime":56.561,"body":"Welcome to episode 163 of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.321,"endTime":56.561,"body":"Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":56.891,"endTime":58.391,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":58.391,"endTime":61.091,"body":"And before we kick off today's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":58.391,"endTime":61.091,"body":"show, I want to take a moment to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.091,"endTime":65.381,"body":"express my gratitude to all of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.091,"endTime":65.381,"body":"this podcast's amazing supporters."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.891,"endTime":68.711,"body":"Your support has been instrumental"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.891,"endTime":68.711,"body":"in keeping the podcast going."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.101,"endTime":72.191,"body":"And I am really grateful for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.101,"endTime":72.191,"body":"each and every one of you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.451,"endTime":76.661,"body":"If you're not already a supporter, I'd"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.451,"endTime":76.661,"body":"like to encourage you to consider joining"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":76.661,"endTime":79.931,"body":"our community of like-minded individuals"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":76.661,"endTime":79.931,"body":"who are passionate about climate."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":80.621,"endTime":83.921,"body":"Supporting the podcast is easy and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":80.621,"endTime":83.921,"body":"affordable with options starting as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":83.921,"endTime":86.261,"body":"low as just three euros or dollars."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.981,"endTime":90.011,"body":"That's less than the cost of a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.981,"endTime":90.011,"body":"cup of coffee and your support."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.191,"endTime":92.831,"body":"We'll make a huge difference in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.191,"endTime":92.831,"body":"keeping the show going strong."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":93.581,"endTime":96.881,"body":"To become a supporter you simply"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":93.581,"endTime":96.881,"body":"click on the support link in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":96.881,"endTime":98.591,"body":"show notes of this or any episode."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":98.891,"endTime":99.401,"body":"Or visit."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":100.031,"endTime":103.181,"body":"Tiny url.com/climate pod."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":104.171,"endTime":104.531,"body":"Now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":104.951,"endTime":106.091,"body":"Without further ado."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":106.361,"endTime":109.141,"body":"With me on the show today, I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":106.361,"endTime":109.141,"body":"have my special guest Laird."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":109.621,"endTime":111.581,"body":"Laird, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":111.581,"endTime":113.051,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":113.676,"endTime":115.036,"body":"thank you so much, Tom."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":115.106,"endTime":115.546,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":115.626,"endTime":120.756,"body":"I am the Graduate Director for"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":115.626,"endTime":120.756,"body":"two graduate programs at Prescott"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":120.776,"endTime":124.526,"body":"College in the United States, a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":120.776,"endTime":124.526,"body":"Master of Science in Resilience and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":124.566,"endTime":129.326,"body":"Sustainable Communities and a Master"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":124.566,"endTime":129.326,"body":"of Science in Environmental Studies."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":130.526,"endTime":130.766,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":131.356,"endTime":131.806,"body":"Superb."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":131.846,"endTime":138.426,"body":"And Laird, how did you get"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":131.846,"endTime":138.426,"body":"into sustainability day one?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":138.446,"endTime":143.876,"body":"Cause it's not a science that has been"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":138.446,"endTime":143.876,"body":"around for a particularly long time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":143.876,"endTime":148.106,"body":"I remember when I was in university,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":143.876,"endTime":148.106,"body":"the closest we had to anything like it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":148.116,"endTime":155.196,"body":"was ecology, and I'm guessing, I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":148.116,"endTime":155.196,"body":"guessing it's an out branch from that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":155.196,"endTime":157.456,"body":"or a branch of that now, maybe not."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":157.546,"endTime":160.096,"body":"Tell me how did you get into"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":157.546,"endTime":160.096,"body":"it and what's your background?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":161.416,"endTime":163.836,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":161.416,"endTime":163.836,"body":"that was certainly the case for me."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":163.836,"endTime":169.571,"body":"I started off as an environmental activist"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":163.836,"endTime":169.571,"body":"way back in the day working in defense"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":169.571,"endTime":175.671,"body":"of ancient forests out in the Pacific"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":169.571,"endTime":175.671,"body":"Northwest, which is my home bioregion."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":176.161,"endTime":179.871,"body":"And for most of my career, I"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":176.161,"endTime":179.871,"body":"was focused primarily on the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":179.871,"endTime":182.091,"body":"preservation of wild spaces."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":182.641,"endTime":190.016,"body":"And it was only when the impacts of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":182.641,"endTime":190.016,"body":"global climate change on those forests"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":190.016,"endTime":194.686,"body":"that I loved so much and I would try to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":190.016,"endTime":194.686,"body":"get out as far as I could, you know, away"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":194.686,"endTime":197.446,"body":"from any human influence that I could."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":197.826,"endTime":202.116,"body":"But before long I was starting to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":197.826,"endTime":202.116,"body":"see the impacts on those forests and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":202.116,"endTime":208.556,"body":"recognizing that the best way to begin"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":202.116,"endTime":208.556,"body":"to defend those forests in this time is"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":208.556,"endTime":214.796,"body":"to begin to work with people in cities"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":208.556,"endTime":214.796,"body":"and reconsider the way that people"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":214.796,"endTime":221.046,"body":"go about their business as usual and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":214.796,"endTime":221.046,"body":"hopefully begin to limit the impacts"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":221.736,"endTime":224.026,"body":"of carbon emissions on the climate."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":224.056,"endTime":233.626,"body":"So I come from that place of a real sense"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":224.056,"endTime":233.626,"body":"of belonging or at least a sense of safety"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":233.696,"endTime":236.036,"body":"that I've always felt in wild spaces."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":236.066,"endTime":239.606,"body":"And I recognize that that is a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":236.066,"endTime":239.606,"body":"privilege, and we can talk about"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":239.606,"endTime":241.566,"body":"that more later if you would like to."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":241.846,"endTime":245.156,"body":"But I feel like I'm still doing the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":241.846,"endTime":245.156,"body":"same work, I've just had to go about"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":245.156,"endTime":247.256,"body":"it in different ways and train people."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":247.606,"endTime":251.956,"body":"Provide the skills and knowledge that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":247.606,"endTime":251.956,"body":"they need to help transform human"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":251.956,"endTime":254.356,"body":"societies one community at a time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":254.906,"endTime":255.226,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":255.226,"endTime":260.906,"body":"And what kind of impacts were you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":255.226,"endTime":260.906,"body":"seeing happen on the old growth"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":260.906,"endTime":262.686,"body":"forests in the Pacific Northwest?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":264.366,"endTime":267.696,"body":"Yeah, we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":264.366,"endTime":267.696,"body":"a lot of impact with die offs of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":267.696,"endTime":272.416,"body":"different species either because of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":267.696,"endTime":272.416,"body":"of drought or because of diseases"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":272.756,"endTime":275.686,"body":"that are able to spread more easily."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":276.376,"endTime":281.806,"body":"And we see this throughout North America"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":276.376,"endTime":281.806,"body":"as well that the the natural spread"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":281.856,"endTime":288.666,"body":"of some blights and other diseases is"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":281.856,"endTime":288.666,"body":"accelerated by the weakening of ecosystems"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":288.706,"endTime":294.186,"body":"due to climate change, due to drought,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":288.706,"endTime":294.186,"body":"so you can travel through northeastern"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":294.186,"endTime":300.756,"body":"Oregon, southeastern Washington and see"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":294.186,"endTime":300.756,"body":"just massive areas, ridge after ridge of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":300.766,"endTime":306.286,"body":"trees that have turned reddish brown as"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":300.766,"endTime":306.286,"body":"they've they're either close to death or"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":306.296,"endTime":311.376,"body":"dying, and it's it has impacts on so many"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":306.296,"endTime":311.376,"body":"species within those forests as well."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":312.046,"endTime":315.976,"body":"So, it's, it's still, for me, it"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":312.046,"endTime":315.976,"body":"started as a form of forest defense."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":315.976,"endTime":320.086,"body":"But over the years, working with"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":315.976,"endTime":320.086,"body":"really inspirational students who"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":320.186,"endTime":324.646,"body":"are addressing different aspects of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":320.186,"endTime":324.646,"body":"the current climate crisis in their"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":324.646,"endTime":329.136,"body":"communities, I've really become excited"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":324.646,"endTime":329.136,"body":"about other aspects of that job."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":329.671,"endTime":331.251,"body":"But that is where it started for me."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":331.461,"endTime":331.931,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":332.411,"endTime":339.031,"body":"And tell me a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":332.411,"endTime":339.031,"body":"how you can work to mitigate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":339.091,"endTime":341.111,"body":"the damage of climate change."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":343.521,"endTime":347.301,"body":"Yeah, well, it is"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":343.521,"endTime":347.301,"body":"as I mentioned, a global problem and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":347.301,"endTime":353.261,"body":"it requires global solutions and those"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":347.301,"endTime":353.261,"body":"global solutions tend to be determined"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":353.621,"endTime":358.171,"body":"at the international level through"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":353.621,"endTime":358.171,"body":"the for example, the COP meetings,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":358.171,"endTime":362.821,"body":"the representatives of different"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":358.171,"endTime":362.821,"body":"governments, as well as increasingly the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":362.981,"endTime":368.251,"body":"representation of large corporations,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":362.981,"endTime":368.251,"body":"and more promising, the representation"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":368.631,"endTime":372.791,"body":"of people who have suffered loss"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":368.631,"endTime":372.791,"body":"and damages from climate change."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":373.091,"endTime":378.991,"body":"So there's that sphere of activity which"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":373.091,"endTime":378.991,"body":"Is absolutely essential to reaching"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":378.991,"endTime":383.911,"body":"agreements on how we can begin to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":378.991,"endTime":383.911,"body":"lessen the effects of climate change."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":384.291,"endTime":391.781,"body":"But as I think we all know, that process"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":384.291,"endTime":391.781,"body":"is inescapably tangled up in larger"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":391.781,"endTime":398.121,"body":"political and economic factors that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":391.781,"endTime":398.121,"body":"really leave us somewhat disempowered."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":398.291,"endTime":403.081,"body":"If we saw that as the only way forward"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":398.291,"endTime":403.081,"body":"we would be spending all of our time"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":403.081,"endTime":407.521,"body":"figuring out how do we try to convince"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":403.081,"endTime":407.521,"body":"this representative from that nation"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":407.521,"endTime":411.941,"body":"to agree to this this fund for loss"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":407.521,"endTime":411.941,"body":"and damages and that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":411.991,"endTime":414.351,"body":"And I'm so glad that we"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":411.991,"endTime":414.351,"body":"have people doing that work."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":414.771,"endTime":416.641,"body":"I'm also so glad that it's not me."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":417.051,"endTime":421.521,"body":"And so instead I get to work with"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":417.051,"endTime":421.521,"body":"students primarily in their own"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":421.551,"endTime":426.061,"body":"communities because there are local"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":421.551,"endTime":426.061,"body":"and regional manifestations of climate"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":426.061,"endTime":431.701,"body":"change and some of the ways that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":426.061,"endTime":431.701,"body":"we can look at local and regional"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":431.701,"endTime":434.691,"body":"responses suggest changes in policy."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":434.996,"endTime":437.796,"body":"Some of them suggest changes in lifestyle."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":438.066,"endTime":442.656,"body":"Some of them require really"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":438.066,"endTime":442.656,"body":"fundamental transformations in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":442.656,"endTime":447.026,"body":"the way that we see ourselves as"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":442.656,"endTime":447.026,"body":"humans living in human cultures."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":447.396,"endTime":453.646,"body":"And those kinds of solutions, adaptation"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":447.396,"endTime":453.646,"body":"solutions, can be very long term."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":454.036,"endTime":459.236,"body":"So at the same time that I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":454.036,"endTime":459.236,"body":"help students identify ways in the short"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":459.266,"endTime":465.171,"body":"term of reducing carbon emissions, we're"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":459.266,"endTime":465.171,"body":"also thinking about what's going to have"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":465.171,"endTime":471.481,"body":"to happen for us to become the kinds"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":465.171,"endTime":471.481,"body":"of communities that, for example, are"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":471.481,"endTime":477.451,"body":"willing to open our doors to other people"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":471.481,"endTime":477.451,"body":"who have been displaced by the impacts"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":477.491,"endTime":484.531,"body":"of our emissions here in North America"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":477.491,"endTime":484.531,"body":"or in Europe or other places as well."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":485.021,"endTime":488.751,"body":"And that really requires, as I said, a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":485.021,"endTime":488.751,"body":"fundamental transformation of how we see"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":488.751,"endTime":491.601,"body":"ourselves in relation to other people."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":491.996,"endTime":500.146,"body":"And what would it mean to create a culture"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":491.996,"endTime":500.146,"body":"that is more welcoming and able to, to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":500.146,"endTime":502.436,"body":"help heal the damage that we've caused."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":502.866,"endTime":505.726,"body":"That's a, that's a huge"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":502.866,"endTime":505.726,"body":"that's a huge project."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":505.856,"endTime":510.466,"body":"It won't take place in my generation,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":505.856,"endTime":510.466,"body":"but if we can take small steps toward"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":510.466,"endTime":515.796,"body":"it and every time I get a new batch"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":510.466,"endTime":515.796,"body":"of students in, and then they go out"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":515.796,"endTime":520.276,"body":"into the world after earning their"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":515.796,"endTime":520.276,"body":"degree, picking up these skills"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":520.276,"endTime":523.846,"body":"and knowledge, they're hopefully"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":520.276,"endTime":523.846,"body":"influencing other people as well."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":524.116,"endTime":529.596,"body":"As a former community organizer, as well"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":524.116,"endTime":529.596,"body":"as an environmental activist, I have to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":529.596,"endTime":534.506,"body":"believe that that's where much of the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":529.596,"endTime":534.506,"body":"change actually occurs, is in the face"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":534.506,"endTime":538.776,"body":"to face interactions that people have"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":534.506,"endTime":538.776,"body":"with other members of their communities."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":539.961,"endTime":543.701,"body":"Fascinating, because"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":539.961,"endTime":543.701,"body":"I come from a, I studied biology"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":543.701,"endTime":547.351,"body":"in university, but I come from a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":543.701,"endTime":547.351,"body":"tech background professionally."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":547.811,"endTime":553.376,"body":"And, you know, for me, I'm used to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":547.811,"endTime":553.376,"body":"changing a line of code here and seeing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":553.376,"endTime":555.796,"body":"an instant response in, in the output."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":556.166,"endTime":561.006,"body":"And you're talking about changes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":556.166,"endTime":561.006,"body":"that'll take decades before they"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":561.006,"endTime":564.156,"body":"start to really show any results."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":564.716,"endTime":568.356,"body":"Changing, I, I've said it many times,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":564.716,"endTime":568.356,"body":"changing technology is easy, changing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":568.356,"endTime":570.906,"body":"people is much, much, much harder."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":571.506,"endTime":579.061,"body":"And you're talking about people being"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":571.506,"endTime":579.061,"body":"welcoming to migrants, for example, which"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":579.061,"endTime":583.111,"body":"is quite a hot political topic at the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":579.061,"endTime":583.111,"body":"moment, because it seemed the tide seems"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":583.111,"endTime":584.931,"body":"to be going in the opposite direction."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":585.431,"endTime":590.851,"body":"How do we make that change so that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":585.431,"endTime":590.851,"body":"people do become more welcoming?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":590.851,"endTime":594.531,"body":"Because the, the numbers are massive."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":594.891,"endTime":598.991,"body":"We saw with the Syrian civil"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":594.891,"endTime":598.991,"body":"war, something like 5 million"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":599.531,"endTime":601.951,"body":"Syrian refugees enter Europe."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":602.866,"endTime":606.076,"body":"And the ripples of that are still,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":602.866,"endTime":606.076,"body":"still being felt, you know, over 10"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":606.086,"endTime":609.936,"body":"years later, and that's 5 million."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":610.946,"endTime":617.566,"body":"We're talking about a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":610.946,"endTime":617.566,"body":"countries in Africa, in Southeast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":617.566,"endTime":622.346,"body":"Asia, in even parts of Latin and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":617.566,"endTime":622.346,"body":"Central America becoming unlivable"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":622.356,"endTime":628.946,"body":"and literally hundreds of millions"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":622.356,"endTime":628.946,"body":"of, of refugees coming to countries"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":628.946,"endTime":632.106,"body":"where the climate is more livable."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":633.306,"endTime":636.366,"body":"How do we deal with those kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":633.306,"endTime":636.366,"body":"numbers and how do we change people to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":636.366,"endTime":639.016,"body":"become, in your terms, more welcoming?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":641.341,"endTime":642.661,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":641.341,"endTime":642.661,"body":"appreciate that question."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":642.661,"endTime":646.431,"body":"There are a couple of things I'd like"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":642.661,"endTime":646.431,"body":"to touch on in answering it, and I'll"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":673.8710000000001,"endTime":678.201,"body":"begin with the technology piece of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":673.8710000000001,"endTime":678.201,"body":"that, because there's no doubt in my"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":678.201,"endTime":684.826,"body":"mind that we need, the advances in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":678.201,"endTime":684.826,"body":"technology that help provide alternatives"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":684.9060000000001,"endTime":688.186,"body":"to fossil fuel produced energy."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":688.6260000000001,"endTime":695.166,"body":"And this is forcing all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":688.6260000000001,"endTime":695.166,"body":"uncomfortable negotiations between"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":695.336,"endTime":698.966,"body":"folks like me who've been in the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":695.336,"endTime":698.966,"body":"environmental movement for a long time"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":699.4060000000001,"endTime":704.671,"body":"where we have to, for example, consider"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":699.4060000000001,"endTime":704.671,"body":"that nuclear energy, which was just a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":704.671,"endTime":710.091,"body":"no brainer 30 years ago, 40 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":704.671,"endTime":710.091,"body":"that because of the, the waste, that's"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":710.091,"endTime":711.681,"body":"not something we should be producing."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":711.961,"endTime":717.071,"body":"And now we have to acknowledge"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":711.961,"endTime":717.071,"body":"the fact that it is an alternative"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":717.091,"endTime":721.4010000000001,"body":"that produces less carbon or,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":717.091,"endTime":721.4010000000001,"body":"or potentially even no carbon."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":721.7610000000001,"endTime":726.8810000000001,"body":"So it's been really interesting to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":721.7610000000001,"endTime":726.8810000000001,"body":"watch my fellow activists go through the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":726.8810000000001,"endTime":732.2410000000001,"body":"contortions that allow us to say, okay,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":726.8810000000001,"endTime":732.2410000000001,"body":"we need some big tech solutions, and also"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":732.2710000000001,"endTime":737.101,"body":"that to have these big tech solutions,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":732.2710000000001,"endTime":737.101,"body":"we need the funding to do that, which"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":737.1310000000001,"endTime":744.291,"body":"means that some solutions are going to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":737.1310000000001,"endTime":744.291,"body":"emerge out of a an economic model that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":745.0310000000001,"endTime":749.7710000000001,"body":"probably at least half of my students"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":745.0310000000001,"endTime":749.7710000000001,"body":"would say this is a dysfunctional model."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":750.0010000000001,"endTime":754.541,"body":"This economic model is in fact"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":750.0010000000001,"endTime":754.541,"body":"at the, at the root of the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":754.541,"endTime":755.851,"body":"problems that we're facing now."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":755.851,"endTime":760.101,"body":"So we need to revise our economy"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":755.851,"endTime":760.101,"body":"our economic practices and visions"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":760.101,"endTime":761.851,"body":"and priorities in addition to that."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":762.171,"endTime":764.8710000000001,"body":"These are two problems that seem"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":762.171,"endTime":764.8710000000001,"body":"to be at odds with each other."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":765.6210000000001,"endTime":771.7510000000001,"body":"And some of my students find themselves"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":765.6210000000001,"endTime":771.7510000000001,"body":"strongly on the Extinction Rebellion"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":771.7510000000001,"endTime":776.601,"body":"side we need to dismantle these processes"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":771.7510000000001,"endTime":776.601,"body":"right now, while other students of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":776.601,"endTime":782.2410000000001,"body":"mine are going to work for government"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":776.601,"endTime":782.2410000000001,"body":"agencies and for corporations and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":782.2410000000001,"endTime":784.221,"body":"looking into technological solutions."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":784.7410000000001,"endTime":787.681,"body":"And sometimes they bang heads."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":788.2510000000001,"endTime":794.5360000000001,"body":"But I do want to suggest that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":788.2510000000001,"endTime":794.5360000000001,"body":"I think both of these well"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":794.556,"endTime":798.056,"body":"intentioned actions are necessary."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":798.296,"endTime":803.346,"body":"And that when we see people trying"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":798.296,"endTime":803.346,"body":"to drive a wedge between people who"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":803.346,"endTime":808.2560000000001,"body":"express their concern and their,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":803.346,"endTime":808.2560000000001,"body":"and take action in different ways,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":808.546,"endTime":810.086,"body":"that's not doing us any good."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":810.6110000000001,"endTime":814.2310000000001,"body":"Michael Mann, who's been in the news"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":810.6110000000001,"endTime":814.2310000000001,"body":"a lot recently, in his book, The New"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":814.2510000000001,"endTime":820.451,"body":"Climate Wars looks deeply into the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":814.2510000000001,"endTime":820.451,"body":"industrial forces that are behind driving"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":820.461,"endTime":826.191,"body":"those wedges between different elements"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":820.461,"endTime":826.191,"body":"of the climate justice community."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":826.191,"endTime":830.1110000000001,"body":"So, I would start by saying that,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":826.191,"endTime":830.1110000000001,"body":"yes, there's an obvious disconnect"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":830.1410000000001,"endTime":834.2810000000001,"body":"between these two ways of approaching"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":830.1410000000001,"endTime":834.2810000000001,"body":"the problem, but if we dwell on the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":834.2810000000001,"endTime":837.841,"body":"differences, we're losing momentum."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":838.671,"endTime":844.221,"body":"Now in terms of how we potentially"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":838.671,"endTime":844.221,"body":"can become the kinds of people who can"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":844.221,"endTime":850.2310000000001,"body":"be welcoming to other people who've"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":844.221,"endTime":850.2310000000001,"body":"been displaced by our own activities,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":851.071,"endTime":856.471,"body":"it requires a an evolution of values,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":851.071,"endTime":856.471,"body":"of course, but even more so in this"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":856.4810000000001,"endTime":862.581,"body":"particular day and age, it requires a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":856.4810000000001,"endTime":862.581,"body":"different approach to communication."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":863.1310000000001,"endTime":868.591,"body":"We are so polarized, certainly in the in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":863.1310000000001,"endTime":868.591,"body":"the US, but I see it in Europe as well."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":868.931,"endTime":874.4810000000001,"body":"And I imagine it's happening in other"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":868.931,"endTime":874.4810000000001,"body":"parts of the world, where we're not"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":874.5010000000001,"endTime":880.1210000000001,"body":"able to find common ground anymore and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":874.5010000000001,"endTime":880.1210000000001,"body":"frequently that very idea of common"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":880.1210000000001,"endTime":884.851,"body":"ground is equivalent to political"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":880.1210000000001,"endTime":884.851,"body":"failure and that's too bad you know,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":884.851,"endTime":888.921,"body":"the old model the democratic model"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":884.851,"endTime":888.921,"body":"where sides would come together"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":888.921,"endTime":894.711,"body":"and make compromises to find common"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":888.921,"endTime":894.711,"body":"ground now it seems almost historic."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":895.0310000000001,"endTime":899.681,"body":"Yeah, we used to do things that way,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":895.0310000000001,"endTime":899.681,"body":"and that was the, that was the engine by"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":899.711,"endTime":906.1610000000001,"body":"which the clumsy mechanism of democracy"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":899.711,"endTime":906.1610000000001,"body":"moved forward in incremental paces."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":906.4810000000001,"endTime":910.3910000000001,"body":"But now we find ourselves not"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":906.4810000000001,"endTime":910.3910000000001,"body":"willing to make those compromises."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":910.8910000000001,"endTime":916.6510000000001,"body":"So when I've done this work with students"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":910.8910000000001,"endTime":916.6510000000001,"body":"myself, and I've taught a course called"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":916.7310000000001,"endTime":921.971,"body":"Communicating Across Differences Around"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":916.7310000000001,"endTime":921.971,"body":"the Resettlement of Syrian Refugees in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":921.971,"endTime":927.4010000000001,"body":"a city in Vermont we started with the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":921.971,"endTime":927.4010000000001,"body":"practice of nonviolent communication."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":928.0210000000001,"endTime":932.0310000000001,"body":"And this is a part of my background"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":928.0210000000001,"endTime":932.0310000000001,"body":"as a community organizer, along"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":932.041,"endTime":933.601,"body":"with consensus facilitation."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":933.9010000000001,"endTime":939.671,"body":"But non violent communication recognizes"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":933.9010000000001,"endTime":939.671,"body":"that a lot of the patterns through"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":939.671,"endTime":946.711,"body":"which we communicate with one another"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":939.671,"endTime":946.711,"body":"are, in fact antithetical to, A, really"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":946.711,"endTime":952.6510000000001,"body":"hearing the other person, B, being"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":946.711,"endTime":952.6510000000001,"body":"able to find empathy for that person."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":953.846,"endTime":958.416,"body":"I can continue to tick these off, but"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":953.846,"endTime":958.416,"body":"to be able to echo back to them what"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":958.416,"endTime":964.2360000000001,"body":"they've said so they know they're"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":958.416,"endTime":964.2360000000001,"body":"being heard and then to express or"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":964.2360000000001,"endTime":969.2660000000001,"body":"to ask questions that may lead toward"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":964.2360000000001,"endTime":969.2660000000001,"body":"another possible way of seeing things."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":969.466,"endTime":974.9960000000001,"body":"It's a long, complicated, and very"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":969.466,"endTime":974.9960000000001,"body":"vulnerable process that people who are"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":974.9960000000001,"endTime":981.3660000000001,"body":"motivated by one upsmanship by the need"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":974.9960000000001,"endTime":981.3660000000001,"body":"to win an argument, they're going to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":981.3660000000001,"endTime":986.1560000000001,"body":"continue to manifest those harmful,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":981.3660000000001,"endTime":986.1560000000001,"body":"I guess, communication patterns."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":986.4860000000001,"endTime":988.726,"body":"But it begins by listening"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":986.4860000000001,"endTime":988.726,"body":"and acknowledging."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":988.7460000000001,"endTime":994.5010000000001,"body":"And so, in the case right now, we've"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":988.7460000000001,"endTime":994.5010000000001,"body":"got a I think a somewhat manufactured"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":994.601,"endTime":1001.3910000000001,"body":"political crisis around immigration"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":994.601,"endTime":1001.3910000000001,"body":"on our southern border and it's easy"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1001.441,"endTime":1005.181,"body":"for people on the various sides of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1001.441,"endTime":1005.181,"body":"the issues just to point fingers and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1005.181,"endTime":1008.601,"body":"say, this is ridiculous, why are they"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1005.181,"endTime":1008.601,"body":"worried about that or whatever it may be."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1008.951,"endTime":1014.566,"body":"And instead what we need to be doing is"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1008.951,"endTime":1014.566,"body":"It's training people to listen and to ask"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1014.6560000000001,"endTime":1017.9960000000001,"body":"the questions and gain trust by doing so."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1018.3860000000001,"endTime":1019.846,"body":"What are your concerns?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1019.846,"endTime":1021.576,"body":"How are you feeling about this?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1021.6260000000001,"endTime":1024.916,"body":"How does it feel to you compared"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1021.6260000000001,"endTime":1024.916,"body":"to the way it felt living in this"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1024.916,"endTime":1026.286,"body":"place where you were younger?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1026.666,"endTime":1030.306,"body":"So that whole first stage"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1026.666,"endTime":1030.306,"body":"is really listening."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1030.651,"endTime":1033.441,"body":"Helping them feel heard and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1030.651,"endTime":1033.441,"body":"helping them understood."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1033.441,"endTime":1038.611,"body":"And then that clears the table for"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1033.441,"endTime":1038.611,"body":"potentially asking those questions"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1038.611,"endTime":1041.231,"body":"that take us into other possibilities."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1041.841,"endTime":1046.106,"body":"When I was doing this work back in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1041.841,"endTime":1046.106,"body":"Vermont with the Syrian refugees, my"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1046.106,"endTime":1052.386,"body":"students and I met with a leader of the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1046.106,"endTime":1052.386,"body":"group that had organized against allowing"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1052.386,"endTime":1054.9160000000002,"body":"Syrian refugees to settle in that city."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1055.4260000000002,"endTime":1060.4560000000001,"body":"And at the end of our listening session"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1055.4260000000002,"endTime":1060.4560000000001,"body":"with him he was, he was in tears."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1060.506,"endTime":1065.086,"body":"And he said you know, I've not"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1060.506,"endTime":1065.086,"body":"felt like anyone has heard me."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1065.106,"endTime":1070.896,"body":"And I feel so often demonized by my"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1065.106,"endTime":1070.896,"body":"neighbors that it's been really painful."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1071.5910000000001,"endTime":1076.771,"body":"And we never really needed to even move"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1071.5910000000001,"endTime":1076.771,"body":"past that point with this gentleman"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1076.771,"endTime":1080.011,"body":"because what we were doing is we"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1076.771,"endTime":1080.011,"body":"were creating a website where we"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1080.011,"endTime":1085.121,"body":"tried to represent as accurately as"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1080.011,"endTime":1085.121,"body":"possible, the different perspectives"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1085.121,"endTime":1091.586,"body":"of people around this issue and his"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1085.121,"endTime":1091.586,"body":"honest feelings, his honest fears."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1091.586,"endTime":1093.326,"body":"That's all we really needed from him."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1093.356,"endTime":1098.096,"body":"But in feeling heard he, he was"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1093.356,"endTime":1098.096,"body":"transformed and, and we were transformed."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1098.096,"endTime":1103.286,"body":"It became impossible then for us to see"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1098.096,"endTime":1103.286,"body":"him in a two dimensional way anymore."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1103.286,"endTime":1107.7060000000001,"body":"This man who had shed tears"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1103.286,"endTime":1107.7060000000001,"body":"with us after this conversation."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1108.626,"endTime":1109.996,"body":"That's not the whole solution."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1109.996,"endTime":1113.786,"body":"That's just where it starts, but"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1109.996,"endTime":1113.786,"body":"it suggests how something that can"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1113.786,"endTime":1118.616,"body":"happen at the personal level or at"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1113.786,"endTime":1118.616,"body":"the community level that begins to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1118.616,"endTime":1123.136,"body":"move us towards a possibility of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1118.616,"endTime":1123.136,"body":"becoming a more welcoming culture."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1123.3310000000001,"endTime":1124.0710000000001,"body":"Sure, sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1124.0710000000001,"endTime":1124.991,"body":"But something like that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1125.021,"endTime":1129.451,"body":"I mean, how do you measure"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1125.021,"endTime":1129.451,"body":"success of a program like that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1129.501,"endTime":1131.501,"body":"And how well does it scale?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1131.641,"endTime":1137.851,"body":"Which is an even bigger issue given, you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1131.641,"endTime":1137.851,"body":"know, the, the, the number of immigrants,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1137.871,"endTime":1141.111,"body":"refugees, whatever, that's going to scale."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1143.616,"endTime":1146.096,"body":"It's a really good"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1143.616,"endTime":1146.096,"body":"question, and I think the scale is a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1146.096,"endTime":1149.636,"body":"part of the problem, and I think that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1146.096,"endTime":1149.636,"body":"the media is a part of the problem,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1149.6760000000002,"endTime":1154.741,"body":"and by that I don't necessarily mean"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1149.6760000000002,"endTime":1154.741,"body":"the corporate media, as much as I'm"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1154.741,"endTime":1156.961,"body":"thinking about social media as well."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1157.411,"endTime":1162.871,"body":"And one of the problems, and I see this,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1157.411,"endTime":1162.871,"body":"I just this past week was leading a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1162.871,"endTime":1168.651,"body":"discussion with my students about ways"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1162.871,"endTime":1168.651,"body":"that they were comfortable engaging in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1168.651,"endTime":1173.511,"body":"their with their communities, and the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1168.651,"endTime":1173.511,"body":"most common response was through social"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1173.511,"endTime":1180.251,"body":"media, and that led to a conversation"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1173.511,"endTime":1180.251,"body":"about the ways in which social media"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1180.251,"endTime":1185.511,"body":"creates, yes, an opportunity for"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1180.251,"endTime":1185.511,"body":"communication, but not the kind of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1185.531,"endTime":1191.5810000000001,"body":"communication that involves being"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1185.531,"endTime":1191.5810000000001,"body":"sensitive to the responses of people who"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1191.5810000000001,"endTime":1194.641,"body":"may question you or may disagree with you."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1194.901,"endTime":1199.231,"body":"It's very different to post your"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1194.901,"endTime":1199.231,"body":"feelings online than it is to actually"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1199.231,"endTime":1203.8110000000001,"body":"go to a community meeting, for"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1199.231,"endTime":1203.8110000000001,"body":"example, about a contentious topic."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1204.251,"endTime":1208.141,"body":"And to really listen and to be able to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1204.251,"endTime":1208.141,"body":"show other people that you've heard them,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1208.461,"endTime":1214.101,"body":"to be able to express your own views,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1208.461,"endTime":1214.101,"body":"not out of a sense of demonstrating"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1214.4660000000001,"endTime":1219.896,"body":"Why you're right or why you're morally"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1214.4660000000001,"endTime":1219.896,"body":"superior, but this is how it looks to me."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1220.136,"endTime":1224.276,"body":"There's actually something almost"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1220.136,"endTime":1224.276,"body":"postmodern about that position of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1225.201,"endTime":1229.371,"body":"being able to see a contentious"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1225.201,"endTime":1229.371,"body":"issue from multiple points of view."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1230.011,"endTime":1234.131,"body":"To admit, for example, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1230.011,"endTime":1234.131,"body":"what this might look like to you if"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1234.131,"endTime":1238.401,"body":"you've had this experience, but based"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1234.131,"endTime":1238.401,"body":"on my experience, it looks like this."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1238.721,"endTime":1244.0510000000002,"body":"So I suppose that's a level of scaling"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1238.721,"endTime":1244.0510000000002,"body":"up right from individual conversations"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1244.0510000000002,"endTime":1245.731,"body":"to going to community meetings."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1246.136,"endTime":1250.2060000000001,"body":"But how that begins to manifest itself"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1246.136,"endTime":1250.2060000000001,"body":"at the, at the national level, at"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1250.2060000000001,"endTime":1255.476,"body":"the international level there are so"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1250.2060000000001,"endTime":1255.476,"body":"many other factors in, in this system"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1255.556,"endTime":1260.9660000000001,"body":"that mitigate against open, honest,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1255.556,"endTime":1260.9660000000001,"body":"vulnerable communication, that I'm"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1260.9660000000001,"endTime":1262.616,"body":"not quite sure what that looks like."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1262.866,"endTime":1268.471,"body":"And so what we see as we did At the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1262.866,"endTime":1268.471,"body":"most recent COP meeting when we finally"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1268.471,"endTime":1273.3010000000002,"body":"were able to see a little progress"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1268.471,"endTime":1273.3010000000002,"body":"towards loss and damages for people"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1273.601,"endTime":1278.211,"body":"whose homes have been devastated by"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1273.601,"endTime":1278.211,"body":"the impacts of climate change, you"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1278.211,"endTime":1279.751,"body":"know, we've created a budget now."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1280.021,"endTime":1281.8410000000001,"body":"It's a tiny step forward."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1282.221,"endTime":1289.701,"body":"And largely that was based, I think, on"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1282.221,"endTime":1289.701,"body":"a response to a civil, I wouldn't call"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1289.701,"endTime":1292.511,"body":"it civil disobedience, but Activism."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1292.5510000000002,"endTime":1294.201,"body":"In your face activism."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1294.516,"endTime":1299.556,"body":"Both at COP, but also around the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1294.516,"endTime":1299.556,"body":"world in capitals and cities and other"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1299.556,"endTime":1306.026,"body":"places, people saying look, we have to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1299.556,"endTime":1306.026,"body":"accept responsibility for what we've"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1306.026,"endTime":1310.546,"body":"done in creating these impacts that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1306.026,"endTime":1310.546,"body":"have harmed or displaced these people."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1310.546,"endTime":1317.776,"body":"It's small steps, and that's one of the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1310.546,"endTime":1317.776,"body":"problems, Tom, is that the pace of damage."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1317.991,"endTime":1324.611,"body":"Being caused by climate change is"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1317.991,"endTime":1324.611,"body":"completely different than the pace of the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1324.611,"endTime":1333.121,"body":"solutions and in leaning on my friendship"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1324.611,"endTime":1333.121,"body":"with climate scientists and policy folks."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1333.516,"endTime":1338.4460000000001,"body":"I have accepted the idea that the most"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1333.516,"endTime":1338.4460000000001,"body":"urgent thing that we could be doing"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1338.4460000000001,"endTime":1340.476,"body":"right now is keep it in the ground."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1340.786,"endTime":1345.4460000000001,"body":"We have to do whatever we can to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1340.786,"endTime":1345.4460000000001,"body":"to lower our carbon emissions and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1345.4460000000001,"endTime":1348.1960000000001,"body":"eventually get to zero carbon emissions."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1348.236,"endTime":1349.896,"body":"That's, that's the urgent work."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1350.246,"endTime":1353.156,"body":"Everything else takes"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1350.246,"endTime":1353.156,"body":"place at a different pace."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1353.606,"endTime":1357.036,"body":"So right now, for example, I'm"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1353.606,"endTime":1357.036,"body":"here in southwest Virginia."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1357.721,"endTime":1362.501,"body":"In the United States where there is"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1357.721,"endTime":1362.501,"body":"a pipeline, a natural gas pipeline"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1362.8310000000001,"endTime":1368.3110000000001,"body":"that is being, that's running from the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1362.8310000000001,"endTime":1368.3110000000001,"body":"hills of West Virginia on down to North"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1368.3310000000001,"endTime":1372.011,"body":"Carolina, right through Right through"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1368.3310000000001,"endTime":1372.011,"body":"the National Forest, where I work as"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1372.011,"endTime":1377.721,"body":"a trail steward right now, and there's"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1372.011,"endTime":1377.721,"body":"strong civil disobedience, strong"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1377.731,"endTime":1382.8310000000001,"body":"resistance to that, people being thrown"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1377.731,"endTime":1382.8310000000001,"body":"in jail every, every day it seems like,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1382.8310000000001,"endTime":1385.231,"body":"some people in jail without bail still."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1385.5810000000001,"endTime":1390.871,"body":"Those are such heroes to me, the,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1385.5810000000001,"endTime":1390.871,"body":"the water protectors, the pipeline"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1390.871,"endTime":1395.8210000000001,"body":"protesters, and one thing I learned"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1390.871,"endTime":1395.8210000000001,"body":"years ago while working in forest"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1395.8210000000001,"endTime":1402.671,"body":"activism was that for agencies to begin"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1395.8210000000001,"endTime":1402.671,"body":"to change the way that they do things."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1402.6860000000001,"endTime":1409.126,"body":"The politicians have to create"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1402.6860000000001,"endTime":1409.126,"body":"different expectations for them."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1409.4160000000002,"endTime":1414.9460000000001,"body":"And the politicians respond to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1409.4160000000002,"endTime":1414.9460000000001,"body":"public displays of outrage, or"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1414.9460000000001,"endTime":1418.9360000000001,"body":"pressure, or lack of campaign"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1414.9460000000001,"endTime":1418.9360000000001,"body":"funding, or whatever it may be."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1418.9360000000001,"endTime":1422.406,"body":"So it's this convoluted loop that's"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1418.9360000000001,"endTime":1422.406,"body":"really unfortunate, and there"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1422.406,"endTime":1428.4660000000001,"body":"are all of these opportunities"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1422.406,"endTime":1428.4660000000001,"body":"for misbehavior in that loop."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1428.8010000000002,"endTime":1434.161,"body":"But it starts with the outrage,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1428.8010000000002,"endTime":1434.161,"body":"impacts the political system, impacts"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1434.161,"endTime":1438.861,"body":"the policies, and then we can get"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1434.161,"endTime":1438.861,"body":"to a place where, for example clear"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1438.861,"endTime":1443.421,"body":"cutting of old growth forests in the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1438.861,"endTime":1443.421,"body":"Pacific Northwest was pretty much came"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1443.421,"endTime":1445.361,"body":"to an end, at least on public lands."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1445.671,"endTime":1449.731,"body":"But that took years, and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1445.671,"endTime":1449.731,"body":"we don't have years now."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1449.901,"endTime":1452.7910000000002,"body":"And in fact, I was just looking"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1449.901,"endTime":1452.7910000000002,"body":"at some reports this morning."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1452.7910000000002,"endTime":1455.601,"body":"We just had the hottest"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1452.7910000000002,"endTime":1455.601,"body":"February on record."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1456.001,"endTime":1456.601,"body":"Over 1."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1456.601,"endTime":1462.8210000000001,"body":"7 degrees Celsius above pre industrial"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1456.601,"endTime":1462.8210000000001,"body":"levels, which gets us past the 1."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1462.8210000000001,"endTime":1468.0410000000002,"body":"5 that we've been using as a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1462.8210000000001,"endTime":1468.0410000000002,"body":"benchmark that we need to stay under."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1468.731,"endTime":1472.971,"body":"And it seems to me, I'm sorry to say"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1468.731,"endTime":1472.971,"body":"it, that because we're not able to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1472.971,"endTime":1477.721,"body":"put on the brakes quickly enough in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1472.971,"endTime":1477.721,"body":"terms of carbon emissions, and we are"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1477.721,"endTime":1480.121,"body":"beginning to move past these benchmarks."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1480.5510000000002,"endTime":1487.3410000000001,"body":"We will continue to see, increasingly"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1480.5510000000002,"endTime":1487.3410000000001,"body":"damaging impacts of climate change,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1487.901,"endTime":1493.411,"body":"which I suppose the best case scenario"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1487.901,"endTime":1493.411,"body":"is that experiencing those impacts"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1493.411,"endTime":1498.681,"body":"will lead people to demand political"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1493.411,"endTime":1498.681,"body":"accountability, political change,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1498.681,"endTime":1500.3210000000001,"body":"but not at the pace that we need."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1500.3210000000001,"endTime":1504.481,"body":"So, More than ever, and I'll just"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1500.3210000000001,"endTime":1504.481,"body":"make a quick transition here."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1504.5510000000002,"endTime":1509.3110000000001,"body":"You know, I've had students dealing"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1504.5510000000002,"endTime":1509.3110000000001,"body":"with the impact of climate anxiety,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1509.621,"endTime":1512.721,"body":"especially over the last few years,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1509.621,"endTime":1512.721,"body":"and it seemed to emerge around the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1512.721,"endTime":1518.441,"body":"same time as the the, the pandemic and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1512.721,"endTime":1518.441,"body":"the kinds of fears and vulnerability"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1518.601,"endTime":1520.211,"body":"people felt during that period."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1520.491,"endTime":1526.2910000000002,"body":"And out of that, we also see this"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1520.491,"endTime":1526.2910000000002,"body":"Sustained feeling of despair and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1526.3010000000002,"endTime":1532.201,"body":"helplessness around a problem that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1526.3010000000002,"endTime":1532.201,"body":"is so vast that the magnitude of the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1532.201,"endTime":1536.131,"body":"problem suggests that there's nothing"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1532.201,"endTime":1536.131,"body":"you can do about this as an individual."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1536.131,"endTime":1540.001,"body":"Sure, you can ride your bike instead of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1536.131,"endTime":1540.001,"body":"driving your car, that sort of thing, but"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1540.0410000000002,"endTime":1542.131,"body":"that's not going to make much difference."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1542.611,"endTime":1547.5510000000002,"body":"Well, in working with students and trying"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1542.611,"endTime":1547.5510000000002,"body":"to help them become more emotionally"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1547.5510000000002,"endTime":1554.951,"body":"resilient as they do this work I turned"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1547.5510000000002,"endTime":1554.951,"body":"to an old mentor, Joanna Macy whose work"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1554.951,"endTime":1558.741,"body":"with Chris Johnstone has been published"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1554.951,"endTime":1558.741,"body":"in a book and an online training called"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1558.761,"endTime":1565.441,"body":"Active Hope, and they make the point"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1558.761,"endTime":1565.441,"body":"early on that hope is a practice in,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1565.451,"endTime":1567.031,"body":"say, the Buddhist sense of the word."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1567.031,"endTime":1568.8210000000001,"body":"It's not something that you just have."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1568.8310000000001,"endTime":1569.961,"body":"I'm a hopeful person."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1570.221,"endTime":1572.971,"body":"It's something that you"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1570.221,"endTime":1572.971,"body":"cultivate over a period of time."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1573.351,"endTime":1579.4160000000002,"body":"And I began to offer these sessions with"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1573.351,"endTime":1579.4160000000002,"body":"my students through colloquia and teach"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1579.4160000000002,"endTime":1583.606,"body":"ins and that sort of thing where we move"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1579.4160000000002,"endTime":1583.606,"body":"through the Act of Hope steps and step"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1583.606,"endTime":1588.026,"body":"one is acknowledging things that you're"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1583.606,"endTime":1588.026,"body":"grateful for because that puts us in a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1588.026,"endTime":1592.476,"body":"position of resilience when we recognize,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1588.026,"endTime":1592.476,"body":"oh, there are some good things in my"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1592.476,"endTime":1594.156,"body":"life and I want to give thanks for those."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1594.526,"endTime":1598.256,"body":"The next step, which is always"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1594.526,"endTime":1598.256,"body":"very jarring is honoring"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1598.326,"endTime":1599.9160000000002,"body":"our pain for the world."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1600.786,"endTime":1605.4460000000001,"body":"It sounds counterintuitive to honor"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1600.786,"endTime":1605.4460000000001,"body":"the pain, but when we recognize that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1605.506,"endTime":1610.236,"body":"the pain that we feel, the grief,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1605.506,"endTime":1610.236,"body":"the anxiety, the anger, is basically"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1610.336,"endTime":1614.586,"body":"a signal, a negative feedback loop"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1610.336,"endTime":1614.586,"body":"from the system that is alerting us"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1614.636,"endTime":1617.2060000000001,"body":"that we need to change our course."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1617.366,"endTime":1622.4160000000002,"body":"It's the warning bell on the Titanic you"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1617.366,"endTime":1622.4160000000002,"body":"know, heading for the iceberg, that we"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1622.4160000000002,"endTime":1627.4360000000001,"body":"recognize, okay, this feels horrible, but"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1622.4160000000002,"endTime":1627.4360000000001,"body":"it serves an absolutely essential function"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1627.4360000000001,"endTime":1629.106,"body":"and I want to honor that function."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1629.536,"endTime":1631.9360000000001,"body":"That's a transitional"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1629.536,"endTime":1631.9360000000001,"body":"step for a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1632.326,"endTime":1635.7060000000001,"body":"The third and the fourth step are"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1632.326,"endTime":1635.7060000000001,"body":"really about how do we move forward."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1635.9560000000001,"endTime":1639.9460000000001,"body":"Seeing with new eyes is the third"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1635.9560000000001,"endTime":1639.9460000000001,"body":"step where we begin to look around"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1639.9460000000001,"endTime":1644.826,"body":"us and find examples of other people"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1639.9460000000001,"endTime":1644.826,"body":"doing the work that needs to be done."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1644.826,"endTime":1646.606,"body":"We take inspiration from them."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1646.606,"endTime":1651.556,"body":"We begin to see ourselves as part of what"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1646.606,"endTime":1651.556,"body":"Paul Hawkins calls the largest social"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1651.556,"endTime":1653.516,"body":"movement in the history of humanity."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1654.006,"endTime":1656.576,"body":"And then the fourth"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1654.006,"endTime":1656.576,"body":"step is to take action."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1656.7060000000001,"endTime":1661.5510000000002,"body":"And those actions can take"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1656.7060000000001,"endTime":1661.5510000000002,"body":"place at very small steps."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1661.781,"endTime":1666.961,"body":"That may not seem like they're likely"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1661.781,"endTime":1666.961,"body":"to have an impact on global carbon"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1666.961,"endTime":1673.431,"body":"emissions, for example but we are"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1666.961,"endTime":1673.431,"body":"empowered when we take action, and that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1673.431,"endTime":1677.901,"body":"empowerment, along with the rest of this"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1673.431,"endTime":1677.901,"body":"process, allows us to keep from being"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1677.901,"endTime":1680.741,"body":"so discouraged that we just disengage."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1681.281,"endTime":1686.471,"body":"So, the most important thing that we can"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1681.281,"endTime":1686.471,"body":"do as climate activists, or people who"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1686.471,"endTime":1690.941,"body":"are just concerned about climate, is to,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1686.471,"endTime":1690.941,"body":"to go through those steps, to recognize"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1690.941,"endTime":1694.8310000000001,"body":"that we're not alone, and even if we're"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1690.941,"endTime":1694.8310000000001,"body":"taking small steps that are easy for"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1694.861,"endTime":1699.246,"body":"other people to diminish to say, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1694.861,"endTime":1699.246,"body":"that's, that's not going to do any good"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1699.576,"endTime":1703.9260000000002,"body":"to know that well, yes, it's doing good"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1699.576,"endTime":1703.9260000000002,"body":"because it's keeping me going to these"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1703.9260000000002,"endTime":1708.646,"body":"meetings or sending these letters to my"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1703.9260000000002,"endTime":1708.646,"body":"representatives or whatever it may be."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1709.111,"endTime":1714.231,"body":"Small scale change, slow change,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1709.111,"endTime":1714.231,"body":"slower than we need, but it needs to be"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1714.231,"endTime":1719.0810000000001,"body":"happening as the other more immediate"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1714.231,"endTime":1719.0810000000001,"body":"types of action are also happening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1719.576,"endTime":1720.286,"body":"Yeah, it's interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1720.746,"endTime":1726.086,"body":"I've published 160 something episodes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1720.746,"endTime":1726.086,"body":"of this podcast and several times the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1726.406,"endTime":1732.9460000000001,"body":"topic of climate anxiety, for example,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1726.406,"endTime":1732.9460000000001,"body":"has come up and I think you're the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1732.9560000000001,"endTime":1740.096,"body":"first, if I'm right, person to talk"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1732.9560000000001,"endTime":1740.096,"body":"about how to self care in that kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1740.096,"endTime":1741.9560000000001,"body":"situation and the steps you should take."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1741.9560000000001,"endTime":1744.076,"body":"And of course it is hugely important."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1744.106,"endTime":1747.516,"body":"One of the reasons I set up this podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1744.106,"endTime":1747.516,"body":"was so that I would be hearing good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1747.516,"endTime":1750.996,"body":"climate news stories at least once a week"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1747.516,"endTime":1750.996,"body":"so that I wouldn't be going into a kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1750.996,"endTime":1754.6860000000001,"body":"a fetal position on the floor with tears"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1750.996,"endTime":1754.6860000000001,"body":"streaming down my face kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1754.6860000000001,"endTime":1757.846,"body":"So kind of, it, it, it, it is interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1757.876,"endTime":1759.906,"body":"I, I understand what you mean as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1759.9660000000001,"endTime":1763.626,"body":"Just doing small steps yourself."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1764.406,"endTime":1764.886,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1764.906,"endTime":1769.366,"body":"It can feel like it doesn't make"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1764.906,"endTime":1769.366,"body":"a difference in the grand scheme"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1769.366,"endTime":1775.671,"body":"of things, but it does to me, or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1769.366,"endTime":1775.671,"body":"it does to you, if you do make"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1775.671,"endTime":1778.101,"body":"those changes or take some steps."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1778.601,"endTime":1780.521,"body":"Yeah, I can see your point."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1780.5510000000002,"endTime":1781.761,"body":"Makes it makes a lot of sense."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1782.595,"endTime":1785.765,"body":"And it also"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1782.595,"endTime":1785.765,"body":"provides opportunities for people to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1785.765,"endTime":1787.9750000000001,"body":"gather together in small communities."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1788.395,"endTime":1792.125,"body":"Having lived in, in small"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1788.395,"endTime":1792.125,"body":"villages and in larger cities."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1792.545,"endTime":1799.105,"body":"I really appreciate the, the notion of,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1792.545,"endTime":1799.105,"body":"of human scale functions, and some of the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1799.105,"endTime":1805.085,"body":"functions that were traditionally provided"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1799.105,"endTime":1805.085,"body":"by human societies have been shunted"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1805.085,"endTime":1811.035,"body":"off as we've moved towards increasing"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1805.085,"endTime":1811.035,"body":"independence in the modern world and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1811.055,"endTime":1816.2050000000002,"body":"Yuval Harari talks about this in the book"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1811.055,"endTime":1816.2050000000002,"body":"Sapiens where we basically made a trade"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1816.2050000000002,"endTime":1820.535,"body":"off at some point for us to be able to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1816.2050000000002,"endTime":1820.535,"body":"leave the little village where our family"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1820.535,"endTime":1824.9750000000001,"body":"had already lived and no longer be seen"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1820.535,"endTime":1824.9750000000001,"body":"as the butcher's son or whatever and to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1824.9850000000001,"endTime":1829.135,"body":"be able to go and find the world that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1824.9850000000001,"endTime":1829.135,"body":"that really makes us or find the life"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1829.145,"endTime":1831.325,"body":"that really makes us feel fulfilled."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1831.675,"endTime":1835.345,"body":"We had to give up some things and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1831.675,"endTime":1835.345,"body":"those things that we've given up."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1835.6950000000002,"endTime":1842.005,"body":"The traditional functions of community"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1835.6950000000002,"endTime":1842.005,"body":"are largely filled in by either"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1842.415,"endTime":1845.325,"body":"the state or the market right now."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1845.405,"endTime":1851.335,"body":"So we seek these I guess these nourishing"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1845.405,"endTime":1851.335,"body":"aspects, whether it's health care whether"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1851.345,"endTime":1857.314,"body":"it is, community relations, whether"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1851.345,"endTime":1857.314,"body":"it's a sense of personal identity."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1857.604,"endTime":1861.534,"body":"We, we, we express our personal"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1857.604,"endTime":1861.534,"body":"identity by what we buy, what"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1861.534,"endTime":1862.7240000000002,"body":"we wear, that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1862.7240000000002,"endTime":1864.374,"body":"So the market has subsumed that."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1864.7540000000001,"endTime":1868.394,"body":"But in fact, when we find ourselves"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1864.7540000000001,"endTime":1868.394,"body":"in times of crisis, and this became,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1868.809,"endTime":1873.179,"body":"very obvious during the pandemic"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1868.809,"endTime":1873.179,"body":"with the emergence of mutual aid"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1873.189,"endTime":1878.3990000000001,"body":"groups around cities, making sure"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1873.189,"endTime":1878.3990000000001,"body":"that folks who were not able to leave"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1878.439,"endTime":1881.839,"body":"their homes were getting food, were"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1878.439,"endTime":1881.839,"body":"getting medicine, that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1881.8490000000002,"endTime":1883.489,"body":"It was so inspiring to me."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1883.8890000000001,"endTime":1888.159,"body":"Finding these opportunities in the time"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1883.8890000000001,"endTime":1888.159,"body":"of crisis to gather together with friends."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1889.289,"endTime":1892.439,"body":"Three friends, five"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1889.289,"endTime":1892.439,"body":"friends, ten, ten friends."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1892.789,"endTime":1898.279,"body":"And, for example, to share our fears"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1892.789,"endTime":1898.279,"body":"and anxieties, to bring them out into"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1898.289,"endTime":1904.259,"body":"the open, where they no longer can just"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1898.289,"endTime":1904.259,"body":"fester within us, and to find out, Oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1904.259,"endTime":1906.3790000000001,"body":"not the only person who feels this way."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1906.784,"endTime":1909.064,"body":"There is a therapeutic function in that."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1909.434,"endTime":1914.0240000000001,"body":"And then to move on where people can"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1909.434,"endTime":1914.0240000000001,"body":"share examples that they know of other"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1914.0240000000001,"endTime":1918.034,"body":"folks who are doing inspiring work,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1914.0240000000001,"endTime":1918.034,"body":"whether that's getting arrested at"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1918.034,"endTime":1922.714,"body":"a pipeline or whether that's going"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1918.034,"endTime":1922.714,"body":"to COP26 or whatever it may be."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1923.554,"endTime":1927.574,"body":"And then recognizing, okay, what"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1923.554,"endTime":1927.574,"body":"can we do together and putting it"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1927.594,"endTime":1932.654,"body":"out there in a way that we are held"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1927.594,"endTime":1932.654,"body":"accountable to it in a different way."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1932.654,"endTime":1936.479,"body":"And it may be something as simple"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1932.654,"endTime":1936.479,"body":"as you know, I'm going to try not"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1936.479,"endTime":1941.069,"body":"to drive my car on Tuesdays and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1936.479,"endTime":1941.069,"body":"Thursdays because I don't need to, or"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1941.429,"endTime":1945.8590000000002,"body":"I'm going to write a letter to this"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1941.429,"endTime":1945.8590000000002,"body":"representative, or whatever that may be."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1946.1190000000001,"endTime":1954.6190000000001,"body":"When we come out of that together we"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1946.1190000000001,"endTime":1954.6190000000001,"body":"are re embedded in the oldest form of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1954.675,"endTime":1959.4740000000002,"body":"human community that strengthens us."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1959.4940000000001,"endTime":1962.454,"body":"We're no longer alone and not being alone."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1962.9840000000002,"endTime":1965.664,"body":"We're no longer disempowered"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1962.9840000000002,"endTime":1965.664,"body":"in the same way."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1966.394,"endTime":1967.824,"body":"It doesn't have to be that many people."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1967.854,"endTime":1972.114,"body":"I've actually heard of folks going"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1967.854,"endTime":1972.114,"body":"through something kind of similar with"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1972.164,"endTime":1977.424,"body":"grief, grief cafes or death cafes or"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1972.164,"endTime":1977.424,"body":"something like that, where people get"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1977.424,"endTime":1982.354,"body":"together to share the experiences that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1977.424,"endTime":1982.354,"body":"they've had over losing a loved one."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1982.669,"endTime":1987.1390000000001,"body":"And they come out of that feeling"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1982.669,"endTime":1987.1390000000001,"body":"supported, feeling stronger."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1987.439,"endTime":1990.569,"body":"So that's a part, that's something that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1987.439,"endTime":1990.569,"body":"can happen, really, in any community,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1990.779,"endTime":1995.009,"body":"if you're willing to be vulnerable"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1990.779,"endTime":1995.009,"body":"enough to reach out to folks and say,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1995.489,"endTime":1999.009,"body":"Listen, I'm feeling really overwhelmed"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1995.489,"endTime":1999.009,"body":"by this and I think it would be great"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1999.009,"endTime":2002.669,"body":"if, if you would join me and a few"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":1999.009,"endTime":2002.669,"body":"friends and we'll go have a cup of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2002.669,"endTime":2005.719,"body":"tea together and reflect on this."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2006.419,"endTime":2008.459,"body":"That's the way that it"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2006.419,"endTime":2008.459,"body":"feels most comfortable."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2008.689,"endTime":2012.529,"body":"The way that I see it, as somebody who's"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2008.689,"endTime":2012.529,"body":"studied the sociology of religion and that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2012.529,"endTime":2018.049,"body":"sort of thing, is these are rituals that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2012.529,"endTime":2018.049,"body":"we do to to ground us and to empower us."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2018.7440000000001,"endTime":2022.584,"body":"So it's kind of group"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2018.7440000000001,"endTime":2022.584,"body":"therapy for climate activists, Climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2022.584,"endTime":2024.404,"body":"Anonymous, if we want to call it that."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2025.569,"endTime":2026.3590000000002,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2026.449,"endTime":2026.8590000000002,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2027.029,"endTime":2027.799,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2027.959,"endTime":2031.429,"body":"And there are multiple"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2027.959,"endTime":2031.429,"body":"opportunities for things like that."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2031.809,"endTime":2036.589,"body":"It can even happen in the first 10 minutes"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2031.809,"endTime":2036.589,"body":"of a meeting for, for another purpose."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2036.6190000000001,"endTime":2040.8490000000002,"body":"Let's just take a few minutes and share"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2036.6190000000001,"endTime":2040.8490000000002,"body":"our, what we're most concerned about."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2041.249,"endTime":2043.8890000000001,"body":"Now let's think of somebody who"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2041.249,"endTime":2043.8890000000001,"body":"inspires us, that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2044.214,"endTime":2044.644,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2045.0240000000001,"endTime":2045.424,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2045.874,"endTime":2049.924,"body":"And of course, if you're doing it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2045.874,"endTime":2049.924,"body":"locally, the solutions you come up"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2049.924,"endTime":2053.524,"body":"with locally will be for local issues."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2054.024,"endTime":2057.774,"body":"And that's empowering as well,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2054.024,"endTime":2057.774,"body":"because if you are solving local"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2057.774,"endTime":2059.174,"body":"issues, you actually see progress."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2060.794,"endTime":2063.784,"body":"Exactly, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2060.794,"endTime":2063.784,"body":"I'll have students who live in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2063.784,"endTime":2068.714,"body":"very large urban areas, and they"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2063.784,"endTime":2068.714,"body":"tend to feel much more disempowered"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2069.459,"endTime":2071.509,"body":"than folks living in smaller towns."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2071.844,"endTime":2075.054,"body":"And in those cases, I'll frequently"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2071.844,"endTime":2075.054,"body":"suggest that they try to identify"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2075.054,"endTime":2076.694,"body":"something at the neighborhood level."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2077.234,"endTime":2082.324,"body":"Because that ability to take action"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2077.234,"endTime":2082.324,"body":"and have an effect is so empowering"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2082.664,"endTime":2085.054,"body":"and can scale up from there."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2085.204,"endTime":2087.234,"body":"And maybe it's not individually anymore."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2087.234,"endTime":2089.954,"body":"Maybe you have several"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2087.234,"endTime":2089.954,"body":"neighborhood communities working"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2089.954,"endTime":2092.044,"body":"together to create a change."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2092.869,"endTime":2096.279,"body":"And, you know, that's one of the, when"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2092.869,"endTime":2096.279,"body":"I think about the skills and knowledge"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2096.649,"endTime":2100.9790000000003,"body":"that people coming through my graduate"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2096.649,"endTime":2100.9790000000003,"body":"program pick up along the way, one"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2100.9790000000003,"endTime":2106.939,"body":"of the things is knowledge about how"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2100.9790000000003,"endTime":2106.939,"body":"policy works in their own communities."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2107.429,"endTime":2111.679,"body":"Obviously, there's international climate"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2107.429,"endTime":2111.679,"body":"policy, which is a whole other issue."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2112.049,"endTime":2117.444,"body":"but let's say, for example, that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2112.049,"endTime":2117.444,"body":"you wanted to take out your lawn"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2117.444,"endTime":2120.934,"body":"and turn your, your front lawn,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2117.444,"endTime":2120.934,"body":"your front yard into a garden."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2121.364,"endTime":2124.204,"body":"What are these zoning ordinances in place?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2124.204,"endTime":2127.1440000000002,"body":"What are the regulations in place that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2124.204,"endTime":2127.1440000000002,"body":"might prevent you from doing that?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2127.544,"endTime":2130.914,"body":"And because my students are all over"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2127.544,"endTime":2130.914,"body":"the world in these online classes,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2131.239,"endTime":2135.089,"body":"they're sharing with each other what"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2131.239,"endTime":2135.089,"body":"they're finding out about those policies."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2135.409,"endTime":2139.4990000000003,"body":"They're seeing first that, hey, the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2135.409,"endTime":2139.4990000000003,"body":"way things are done in my community"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2139.4990000000003,"endTime":2141.239,"body":"is not the only way they can be done."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2141.609,"endTime":2145.779,"body":"Second, they're seeing examples from"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2141.609,"endTime":2145.779,"body":"other students that may be inspiring."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2146.009,"endTime":2149.449,"body":"And third, they're also learning"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2146.009,"endTime":2149.449,"body":"what are the processes by which"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2149.449,"endTime":2152.059,"body":"existing regulations can be changed."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2152.209,"endTime":2154.349,"body":"What, what channels would"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2152.209,"endTime":2154.349,"body":"I have to go through?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2154.759,"endTime":2159.734,"body":"So it's a step by step empowerment"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2154.759,"endTime":2159.734,"body":"to making change at the local level."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2159.994,"endTime":2164.424,"body":"At the national and international"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2159.994,"endTime":2164.424,"body":"level, because we have to rely on"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2164.434,"endTime":2166.8740000000003,"body":"really inefficient political systems."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2167.324,"endTime":2172.134,"body":"It may be that some people decide the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2167.324,"endTime":2172.134,"body":"best thing that they could do is to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2172.134,"endTime":2180.474,"body":"try to restructure or revision the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2172.134,"endTime":2180.474,"body":"political system so that for example,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2181.084,"endTime":2186.164,"body":"personal contributions aren't skewing"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2181.084,"endTime":2186.164,"body":"the system towards people being elected"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2186.164,"endTime":2191.8540000000003,"body":"to those positions who may not have the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2186.164,"endTime":2191.8540000000003,"body":"best interest of constituents at heart."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2192.564,"endTime":2198.694,"body":"So campaign finance reform may not"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2192.564,"endTime":2198.694,"body":"seem like an obvious task for climate"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2198.704,"endTime":2200.8540000000003,"body":"activists, but it very much is."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2201.784,"endTime":2208.014,"body":"And I tell students, you know, trust that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2201.784,"endTime":2208.014,"body":"you are going to feel called individually"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2208.034,"endTime":2210.654,"body":"to a particular kind of action."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2211.204,"endTime":2217.364,"body":"And don't worry too much about whether"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2211.204,"endTime":2217.364,"body":"that focus distracts you from other"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2217.364,"endTime":2218.634,"body":"things that you could be doing."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2218.634,"endTime":2222.264,"body":"Trust that other people are going"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2218.634,"endTime":2222.264,"body":"to be called in those directions."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2222.959,"endTime":2224.839,"body":"Pay attention to what each other's doing."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2224.839,"endTime":2227.129,"body":"Support one another in those actions."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2227.149,"endTime":2228.319,"body":"Be a good ally."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2228.559,"endTime":2235.119,"body":"But, but listen to what feels most"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2228.559,"endTime":2235.119,"body":"urgent to you and and find a way"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2235.119,"endTime":2239.029,"body":"to, to make a change in that area."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2239.549,"endTime":2239.789,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2239.799,"endTime":2240.089,"body":"Laird."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2240.139,"endTime":2241.539,"body":"This has been fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2241.539,"endTime":2245.959,"body":"Most of the episodes I've done in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2241.539,"endTime":2245.959,"body":"podcast, we've been, you know, talking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2245.959,"endTime":2251.259,"body":"about technical solutions, whereas"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2245.959,"endTime":2251.259,"body":"we're really talking more around the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2251.259,"endTime":2259.439,"body":"lines of mental health, if you want,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2251.259,"endTime":2259.439,"body":"and, and moving people's mindset rather"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2259.439,"endTime":2261.879,"body":"than any, any big technical changes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2261.879,"endTime":2264.699,"body":"So it's been a, a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2261.879,"endTime":2264.699,"body":"fascinating conversation."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2265.709,"endTime":2267.789,"body":"As I say, we're coming towards"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2265.709,"endTime":2267.789,"body":"the end of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2267.799,"endTime":2272.669,"body":"So is there any question I didn't ask that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2267.799,"endTime":2272.669,"body":"you wish I did, or any aspect of this we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2272.669,"endTime":2275.799,"body":"haven't covered off that you think it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2272.669,"endTime":2275.799,"body":"important for people to be aware of?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2276.464,"endTime":2281.714,"body":"I think I would return"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2276.464,"endTime":2281.714,"body":"for just a moment to the resettlement of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2281.754,"endTime":2286.364,"body":"people displaced by climate change, which,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2281.754,"endTime":2286.364,"body":"as you mentioned, we're probably looking"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2286.364,"endTime":2290.024,"body":"at hundreds of millions of people by 2050."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2290.919,"endTime":2297.689,"body":"And when we imagine what that might look"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2290.919,"endTime":2297.689,"body":"like to open our own communities to people"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2297.689,"endTime":2303.789,"body":"who've been displaced by the impacts of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2297.689,"endTime":2303.789,"body":"our daily life what would have to change"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2303.959,"endTime":2306.844,"body":"for that to become a welcoming community?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2306.844,"endTime":2310.929,"body":"And we've talked about this a little bit"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2306.844,"endTime":2310.929,"body":"just in terms of the communications in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2310.929,"endTime":2317.609,"body":"a polarized setting, but I guess that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2310.929,"endTime":2317.609,"body":"I would say there are other ways to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2318.259,"endTime":2326.339,"body":"become more functional communities that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2318.259,"endTime":2326.339,"body":"opens the door potentially for making"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2326.339,"endTime":2329.939,"body":"decisions like that, that some people,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2326.339,"endTime":2329.939,"body":"people would find very threatening."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2330.349,"endTime":2335.649,"body":"And a part of that is, is simply to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2330.349,"endTime":2335.649,"body":"function as a community with people"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2335.65,"endTime":2339.524,"body":"that you may disagree with politically."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2340.034,"endTime":2345.064,"body":"I had an experience in a small"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2340.034,"endTime":2345.064,"body":"town, Vermont, where I lived for a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2345.064,"endTime":2350.804,"body":"while, where I was playing bluegrass"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2345.064,"endTime":2350.804,"body":"music weekly at a little jam."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2351.264,"endTime":2357.264,"body":"And the people who would come to that jam"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2351.264,"endTime":2357.264,"body":"came from all different walks of life."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2357.534,"endTime":2362.054,"body":"Carpenters, mechanics, artisans,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2357.534,"endTime":2362.054,"body":"teachers, that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2362.094,"endTime":2363.454,"body":"We played music together."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2363.884,"endTime":2370.134,"body":"And often we didn't even know how much"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2363.884,"endTime":2370.134,"body":"we might disagree about some of the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2370.134,"endTime":2372.594,"body":"fundamental political issues of our time."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2372.964,"endTime":2376.474,"body":"But we function together and there's"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2372.964,"endTime":2376.474,"body":"something about playing music where"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2376.474,"endTime":2384.594,"body":"you're harmonizing or you're filling in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2376.474,"endTime":2384.594,"body":"spaces that is very much an example of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2384.6240000000003,"endTime":2388.064,"body":"people working together as a community."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2388.6440000000002,"endTime":2394.939,"body":"And I became good friends with people who"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2388.6440000000002,"endTime":2394.939,"body":"I would probably not have spoken with if"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2394.939,"endTime":2397.149,"body":"we had started from a place of politics."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2397.619,"endTime":2402.859,"body":"And so I would say at the most basic"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2397.619,"endTime":2402.859,"body":"community level finding opportunities"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2403.459,"endTime":2409.919,"body":"to engage in a friendly fashion with"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2403.459,"endTime":2409.919,"body":"other people who are a part of your"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2409.919,"endTime":2416.529,"body":"community so that it makes it harder"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2409.919,"endTime":2416.529,"body":"for them to see you as the villain."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2416.889,"endTime":2419.469,"body":"And it makes it harder for you"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2416.889,"endTime":2419.469,"body":"to see them as the villain."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2419.859,"endTime":2423.2690000000002,"body":"And instead you see yourself as"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2419.859,"endTime":2423.2690000000002,"body":"two people, working from different"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2423.2690000000002,"endTime":2428.289,"body":"experiences, engaging with"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2423.2690000000002,"endTime":2428.289,"body":"different media, that leads you"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2428.289,"endTime":2430.339,"body":"to come to different solutions."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2430.689,"endTime":2435.089,"body":"But it's a very different situation"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2430.689,"endTime":2435.089,"body":"to say, this person has made a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2435.089,"endTime":2440.169,"body":"different decision than I have, than"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2435.089,"endTime":2440.169,"body":"it is to say, this person is evil."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2440.609,"endTime":2441.009,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2442.2290000000003,"endTime":2447.209,"body":"So I really potlucks are a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2442.2290000000003,"endTime":2447.209,"body":"way, neighborhood potlucks that"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2447.209,"endTime":2448.4790000000003,"body":"might bring people together."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2448.819,"endTime":2454.654,"body":"There are skills that we can learn"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2448.819,"endTime":2454.654,"body":"that allow us to set guidelines in"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2454.654,"endTime":2458.554,"body":"place that help us avoid some of the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2454.654,"endTime":2458.554,"body":"contentious issues that might arise."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2458.994,"endTime":2461.784,"body":"And for some people it's"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2458.994,"endTime":2461.784,"body":"all about being contentious."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2461.784,"endTime":2464.764,"body":"It's like, there's that person,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2461.784,"endTime":2464.764,"body":"look at the hat he's wearing."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2464.764,"endTime":2466.514,"body":"I can, I can tell his politics."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2466.534,"endTime":2467.764,"body":"I'm going to get in his face."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2467.8740000000003,"endTime":2469.974,"body":"That doesn't do anyone any good at all."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2470.344,"endTime":2471.844,"body":"Take off the hat, you know."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2472.134,"endTime":2473.6040000000003,"body":"Sit down next to somebody."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2473.6440000000002,"endTime":2475.284,"body":"Find out what they do for a living."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2475.284,"endTime":2475.784,"body":"Find out."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2476.934,"endTime":2482.384,"body":"You know, something about their family,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2476.934,"endTime":2482.384,"body":"Catherine Hayhoe, climate scientist"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2482.384,"endTime":2486.654,"body":"who wrote the book, Saving Us a couple"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2482.384,"endTime":2486.654,"body":"years ago, because she comes from a"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2486.674,"endTime":2488.8940000000002,"body":"fundamentalist Christian background."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2489.204,"endTime":2490.814,"body":"Her book is really useful."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2491.264,"endTime":2496.284,"body":"Excuse me in providing models of"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2491.264,"endTime":2496.284,"body":"ways for talking with people who"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2496.324,"endTime":2501.474,"body":"are skeptical or antagonistic to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2496.324,"endTime":2501.474,"body":"the the science of climate change."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2501.794,"endTime":2506.184,"body":"I would recommend that book highly and"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2501.794,"endTime":2506.184,"body":"we use it in a couple of our classes."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2506.464,"endTime":2511.039,"body":"We need to, we need to start by being"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2506.464,"endTime":2511.039,"body":"good neighbors, being good family."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2511.319,"endTime":2515.259,"body":"Having conversations that allow us to"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2511.319,"endTime":2515.259,"body":"build real relationships, and then on"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2515.279,"endTime":2521.119,"body":"top of that, we can begin doing the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2515.279,"endTime":2521.119,"body":"work of long term cultural evolution."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2521.349,"endTime":2522.629,"body":"Sure, sure, sure, sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2522.639,"endTime":2523.059,"body":"Fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2523.799,"endTime":2528.419,"body":"Laird, if people would like to know"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2523.799,"endTime":2528.419,"body":"more about yourself or any of the things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2528.419,"endTime":2531.009,"body":"we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2528.419,"endTime":2531.009,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2532.949,"endTime":2536.7290000000003,"body":"Well, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2532.949,"endTime":2536.7290000000003,"body":"probably the page for my graduate"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2536.7290000000003,"endTime":2540.029,"body":"program, the Master of Science"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2536.7290000000003,"endTime":2540.029,"body":"in Resilience and Sustainable"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2540.059,"endTime":2541.699,"body":"Communities at Prescott College."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2542.074,"endTime":2543.824,"body":"They can contact me through that."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2544.274,"endTime":2548.764,"body":"My email is there and I welcome the"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2544.274,"endTime":2548.764,"body":"chance to talk to people individually."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2549.164,"endTime":2552.6040000000003,"body":"I've got a LinkedIn profile as well"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2549.164,"endTime":2552.6040000000003,"body":"if folks just want to know more"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2552.6040000000003,"endTime":2557.094,"body":"and see other podcasts or videos"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2552.6040000000003,"endTime":2557.094,"body":"or that sort of thing that I do."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2557.114,"endTime":2559.494,"body":"But yeah, please send them to that link."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2559.494,"endTime":2560.574,"body":"I'd love to hear from folks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2560.829,"endTime":2563.169,"body":"I'll put those two"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2560.829,"endTime":2563.169,"body":"links here, LinkedIn and that page"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2563.529,"endTime":2566.109,"body":"in the show notes of this episode"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2563.529,"endTime":2566.109,"body":"so people can find them there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2566.5190000000002,"endTime":2567.029,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2567.069,"endTime":2568.219,"body":"Laird, that's been really interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2568.219,"endTime":2569.929,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2568.219,"endTime":2569.929,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2571.264,"endTime":2572.334,"body":"Thanks"},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2571.264,"endTime":2572.334,"body":"for having me, Tom."},{"speaker":"Laird Christensen","startTime":2572.334,"endTime":2572.954,"body":"It's been fun."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2574.554,"endTime":2576.424,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2574.554,"endTime":2576.424,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2577.1440000000002,"endTime":2578.254,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2579.114,"endTime":2583.264,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2579.114,"endTime":2583.264,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2583.274,"endTime":2587.184,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2587.434,"endTime":2590.914,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2591.484,"endTime":2595.224,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2591.484,"endTime":2595.224,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2595.244,"endTime":2599.724,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2595.244,"endTime":2599.724,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2600.3540000000003,"endTime":2603.314,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2600.3540000000003,"endTime":2603.314,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2603.514,"endTime":2606.044,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2603.514,"endTime":2606.044,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2607.134,"endTime":2607.584,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2608.254,"endTime":2609.174,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}