{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3.58,"endTime":6.128,"body":"There's a whole lot"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3.58,"endTime":6.128,"body":"of frustration, I think, with the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":6.128,"endTime":9.658,"body":"average person saying, like, we know"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":6.128,"endTime":9.658,"body":"climate change is a problem and we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":9.658,"endTime":11.728,"body":"would like to do something about it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":11.768,"endTime":15.718,"body":"But other than looking towards my"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":11.768,"endTime":15.718,"body":"government and going around and I"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":15.718,"endTime":19.318,"body":"don't know, throwing orange paint on"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":15.718,"endTime":19.318,"body":"Renaissance masters gives you an idea"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":19.318,"endTime":21.258,"body":"of the kind of frustration out there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":21.258,"endTime":22.638,"body":"But that's clearly not the answer."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":22.638,"endTime":24.768,"body":"We need some other kind of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":22.638,"endTime":24.768,"body":"means to make it really easy for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":24.768,"endTime":26.488,"body":"people to take climate action"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":26.608,"endTime":28.678,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":26.608,"endTime":28.678,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":28.688,"endTime":30.188,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.508,"endTime":34.238,"body":"This is the Climate Confident"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.508,"endTime":34.238,"body":"podcast, the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.378,"endTime":38.148,"body":"showcasing best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.378,"endTime":38.148,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":38.578,"endTime":40.518,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":40.678,"endTime":44.438,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":40.678,"endTime":44.438,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":44.598,"endTime":46.958,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":47.547,"endTime":48.117,"body":"Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.177,"endTime":51.507,"body":"Welcome to episode 165 of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.177,"endTime":51.507,"body":"climate confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.777,"endTime":54.777,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.777,"endTime":54.777,"body":"before we kick off today's show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":55.137,"endTime":59.667,"body":"Just a few quick words about what's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":55.137,"endTime":59.667,"body":"coming up in the next couple of weeks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":59.757,"endTime":61.101,"body":"So,  next week."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.371,"endTime":66.081,"body":"April 24th, I'll be talking to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.371,"endTime":66.081,"body":"Daniel Lawse from Verdis Group"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":66.321,"endTime":69.081,"body":"about their ways of helping"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":66.321,"endTime":69.081,"body":"companies reduce their emissions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.531,"endTime":74.091,"body":"The week after I'll be talking to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.531,"endTime":74.091,"body":"Julia Salant from EcoVadis about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":74.091,"endTime":75.411,"body":"what they're doing in the space."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.471,"endTime":80.634,"body":"But today, today, I'm"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.471,"endTime":80.634,"body":"talking to Carbon Is Money."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":80.824,"endTime":83.614,"body":"And we have a really interesting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":80.824,"endTime":83.614,"body":"show for you lined up today where"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":83.614,"endTime":90.094,"body":"we be talking about using carbon"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":83.614,"endTime":90.094,"body":"mitigation as a form of currency."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.467,"endTime":95.687,"body":"So without further ado, my two special"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.467,"endTime":95.687,"body":"guests on the show today are Joe and Paul."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":96.437,"endTime":96.737,"body":"Joe."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":96.737,"endTime":98.657,"body":"And Paul, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":98.687,"endTime":102.167,"body":"Would you like to introduce"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":98.687,"endTime":102.167,"body":"yourselves, with maybe."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.317,"endTime":103.847,"body":"Alphabetic order Joe going first?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":104.554,"endTime":105.124,"body":"Yeah, thanks."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":105.164,"endTime":106.024,"body":"Thanks for having us."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":106.134,"endTime":110.938,"body":"I'm Joe Pretorius founder of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":106.134,"endTime":110.938,"body":"the Carbon Reserve and sponsor"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":110.938,"endTime":112.348,"body":"of the, the Toco initiative."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":113.284,"endTime":113.794,"body":"Thanks, Tom."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":113.794,"endTime":114.644,"body":"Thanks for having us."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":115.314,"endTime":116.724,"body":"You know, my name is Paul Rowett."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":116.744,"endTime":121.924,"body":"I'm currently leading the Carbon Is Money"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":116.744,"endTime":121.924,"body":"movement and currently in Switzerland."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.008,"endTime":123.608,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.648,"endTime":128.228,"body":"So what is the Carbon Is Money movement?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":129.539,"endTime":136.599,"body":"Yeah, so the Carbon Is"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":129.539,"endTime":136.599,"body":"Money movement is a purpose led movement"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":136.609,"endTime":142.319,"body":"to bring communities together behind"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":136.609,"endTime":142.319,"body":"a solution to the climate crisis where"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":142.729,"endTime":149.259,"body":"communities can agree that if removing"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":142.729,"endTime":149.259,"body":"carbon from the atmosphere is a valuable"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":149.349,"endTime":157.304,"body":"activity, and We think about that slightly"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":149.349,"endTime":157.304,"body":"differently, we can base money off it."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":157.564,"endTime":162.164,"body":"And I guess we'll, we'll explore that,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":157.564,"endTime":162.164,"body":"but it's an agreement of exchanging"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":162.164,"endTime":168.194,"body":"value between communities in a slightly"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":162.164,"endTime":168.194,"body":"different way so that we can fix the"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":168.194,"endTime":173.339,"body":"system that is currently creating"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":168.194,"endTime":173.339,"body":"carbon emissions as economies grow."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":173.809,"endTime":176.469,"body":"And it's a more sustainable way for"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":173.809,"endTime":176.469,"body":"us to all move forward together."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":177.654,"endTime":181.544,"body":"Okay, give me, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":177.654,"endTime":181.544,"body":"first of all, before we dig into"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":181.544,"endTime":187.574,"body":"this any deeper, give me a little"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":181.544,"endTime":187.574,"body":"bit of the backstory of why or how"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":187.594,"endTime":189.644,"body":"you came up with this idea, guys."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":191.504,"endTime":192.594,"body":"Okay, I'll take this one."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":192.674,"endTime":195.231,"body":"Yeah, so Paul and myself you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":192.674,"endTime":195.231,"body":"know, we've been sort of tech"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":195.441,"endTime":200.111,"body":"Entrepreneurs invest investors over"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":195.441,"endTime":200.111,"body":"the last sort of 2 to 3 decades."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":200.161,"endTime":205.621,"body":"And, you know, we've come, we've become"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":200.161,"endTime":205.621,"body":"more and more concerned, obviously,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":205.621,"endTime":209.721,"body":"with regards to climate change and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":205.621,"endTime":209.721,"body":"start looking at the underlying data"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":209.721,"endTime":214.841,"body":"and came to the conclusion Tom that you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":209.721,"endTime":214.841,"body":"know, really carbon emissions continue"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":214.841,"endTime":219.581,"body":"to increase every year, despite, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":214.841,"endTime":219.581,"body":"know, last three decades of 28 COPs."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":219.961,"endTime":223.951,"body":"You know, carbon emissions today are,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":219.961,"endTime":223.951,"body":"you know, 60 percent higher than what"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":223.951,"endTime":229.231,"body":"they were in 1990 when we had the first,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":223.951,"endTime":229.231,"body":"you know, first sort of Kyoto Kyoto"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":229.231,"endTime":232.961,"body":"conference and started asking ourselves"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":229.231,"endTime":232.961,"body":"why that you know why that is."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":232.961,"endTime":236.921,"body":"And after a lot of sort of exploration"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":232.961,"endTime":236.921,"body":"and research, basically just came"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":236.921,"endTime":240.861,"body":"down to the conclusion that it's"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":236.921,"endTime":240.861,"body":"inherently an economic, problem is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":240.861,"endTime":245.018,"body":"that, carbon emissions aren't, priced"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":240.861,"endTime":245.018,"body":"correctly, their, their cost to the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":245.018,"endTime":249.508,"body":"environment and their social cost is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":245.018,"endTime":249.508,"body":"not accurately reflected in our economy"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":249.868,"endTime":254.348,"body":"because that's how our capitalist"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":249.868,"endTime":254.348,"body":"economic system has been set up."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":254.348,"endTime":257.618,"body":"It doesn't value environmental,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":254.348,"endTime":257.618,"body":"environmental resources."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":258.138,"endTime":260.938,"body":"And then digging on that further,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":258.138,"endTime":260.938,"body":"then asked ourselves, but you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":260.938,"endTime":265.758,"body":"know, why hasn't the last 28"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":260.938,"endTime":265.758,"body":"COPs sort of produced anything?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":265.758,"endTime":269.768,"body":"And, and that sort of led us down a path"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":265.758,"endTime":269.768,"body":"of investigating the carbon markets,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":269.768,"endTime":273.961,"body":"which, at the face of it sounds like"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":269.768,"endTime":273.961,"body":"a very, very good, very good idea to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":273.961,"endTime":279.171,"body":"create a market for for carbon so that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":273.961,"endTime":279.171,"body":"the market can can find that that price."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":279.581,"endTime":283.801,"body":"But having looked at that market now, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":279.581,"endTime":283.801,"body":"know, you realize that, the volumes in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":283.801,"endTime":285.651,"body":"that markets are still very, very small."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":285.921,"endTime":287.581,"body":"The markets are really fragmented."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":287.621,"endTime":288.491,"body":"They're illiquid."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":288.801,"endTime":291.511,"body":"They're very sort of opaque and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":288.801,"endTime":291.511,"body":"and I mean, if you read enough"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":291.511,"endTime":294.931,"body":"newspapers, you'll know that they"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":291.511,"endTime":294.931,"body":"they soiled with sort of, credibility"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":294.931,"endTime":297.221,"body":"concerns all all over the space."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":297.221,"endTime":302.186,"body":"And that sort of lead to a place where,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":297.221,"endTime":302.186,"body":"you know, three decades of having"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":302.216,"endTime":306.416,"body":"carbon markets and the pricing is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":302.216,"endTime":306.416,"body":"still way too soft to sort of transmit"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":306.416,"endTime":309.826,"body":"the incentives that you need for for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":306.416,"endTime":309.826,"body":"the kind of investment that we're"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":309.826,"endTime":313.996,"body":"going to need in mitigation activities"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":309.826,"endTime":313.996,"body":"and that then, you know, sort of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":313.996,"endTime":317.006,"body":"produces the next question is, okay,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":313.996,"endTime":317.006,"body":"but why are these carbon markets not"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":317.036,"endTime":317.506,"body":"working?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":317.936,"endTime":321.683,"body":"and, you know, we realized that it's"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":317.936,"endTime":321.683,"body":"effectively, you have this sort of strange"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":321.683,"endTime":326.761,"body":"dynamic where they're just very badly"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":321.683,"endTime":326.761,"body":"designed, they're poorly governed, not"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":326.781,"endTime":330.351,"body":"well supported by the governments that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":326.781,"endTime":330.351,"body":"have, you know, that have created them."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":330.351,"endTime":334.551,"body":"And it's a kind of an indictment, I"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":330.351,"endTime":334.551,"body":"guess, on our institutions today that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":334.551,"endTime":337.681,"body":"they've designed these, these carbon"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":334.551,"endTime":337.681,"body":"markets so poorly and given them, they"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":337.681,"endTime":341.311,"body":"haven't, you know, given them the right"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":337.681,"endTime":341.311,"body":"kind of rules or mechanisms to operate."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":341.891,"endTime":347.064,"body":"By because they just haven't been able"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":341.891,"endTime":347.064,"body":"to find, the consensus to to do that."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":347.114,"endTime":349.994,"body":"And we don't actually now think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":347.114,"endTime":349.994,"body":"I mean, the trend is your friend, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":349.994,"endTime":350.734,"body":"28 COPs."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":351.184,"endTime":354.294,"body":"We don't think that they're going to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":351.184,"endTime":354.294,"body":"find the agreement and cooperation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":354.294,"endTime":356.644,"body":"required to, to fix these carbon markets."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":356.644,"endTime":359.894,"body":"And, and that's really what set, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":356.644,"endTime":359.894,"body":"know, Paul and myself off on a journey"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":359.894,"endTime":363.084,"body":"and to say, look, we have to find"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":359.894,"endTime":363.084,"body":"a way to price carbon accurately."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":363.414,"endTime":369.069,"body":"But we can't, we, we simply can't rely on"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":363.414,"endTime":369.069,"body":"the institutions to go and do that for us."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":369.069,"endTime":373.639,"body":"The the carbon emission problem has"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":369.069,"endTime":373.639,"body":"very sort of specific characteristics"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":373.639,"endTime":377.479,"body":"that we think makes it very hard"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":373.639,"endTime":377.479,"body":"for for our institutions to actually"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":377.949,"endTime":379.529,"body":"get to the right kind of solutions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":380.779,"endTime":384.519,"body":"What, what issues"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":380.779,"endTime":384.519,"body":"does it have that make it hard?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":385.179,"endTime":386.719,"body":"Look, I think if"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":385.179,"endTime":386.719,"body":"you look at the way that we've"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":386.729,"endTime":389.799,"body":"dealt with these kind of unpriced"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":386.729,"endTime":389.799,"body":"outcomes in the past, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":390.309,"endTime":394.799,"body":"Tom is like, they typically called"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":390.309,"endTime":394.799,"body":"by economists negative externalities."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":395.059,"endTime":399.439,"body":"And, you know, sort of the way that they"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":395.059,"endTime":399.439,"body":"that the way that they work is the fact"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":399.439,"endTime":404.009,"body":"that a producer or a consumer gets all the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":399.439,"endTime":404.009,"body":"benefits from the emissions but suffers"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":404.039,"endTime":406.219,"body":"none of the social and environmental cost."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":406.219,"endTime":409.089,"body":"We just sort of naturally"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":406.219,"endTime":409.089,"body":"incentivized to to overproduce them."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":409.749,"endTime":412.059,"body":"And the way that we've dealt with"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":409.749,"endTime":412.059,"body":"it in the past is our governments"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":412.059,"endTime":415.536,"body":"have, have either used things like"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":412.059,"endTime":415.536,"body":"taxes to deal with it, or they've"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":415.536,"endTime":419.166,"body":"used legislation, or in some cases,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":415.536,"endTime":419.166,"body":"they've set up these, these sort of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":419.246,"endTime":421.976,"body":"pricing schemes to to deal with it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":423.196,"endTime":424.846,"body":"And in the past, that worked really well."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":424.886,"endTime":429.546,"body":"I mean, if you take the acid rain"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":424.886,"endTime":429.546,"body":"problem in the United States in the late"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":429.586,"endTime":431.616,"body":"eighties, they set up a sulfur market."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":431.616,"endTime":434.456,"body":"And I think within seven to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":431.616,"endTime":434.456,"body":"eight years, they reduced sulfur"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":434.456,"endTime":437.583,"body":"emissions by 82 to 90 percent there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":438.223,"endTime":441.423,"body":"But once you start thinking about"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":438.223,"endTime":441.423,"body":"carbon emissions, you realize it's"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":441.423,"endTime":444.923,"body":"a little bit different from sulfur"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":441.423,"endTime":444.923,"body":"emissions and, you know, an acid rain"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":444.933,"endTime":446.843,"body":"in a number of, a number of factors."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":446.883,"endTime":451.713,"body":"And in the sense that, you know, with"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":446.883,"endTime":451.713,"body":"acid rain, the problem occurs there where"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":451.803,"endTime":454.343,"body":"the sulfur is put in put into the sky."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":454.863,"endTime":457.283,"body":"Where with, you know, carbon"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":454.863,"endTime":457.283,"body":"emissions, that's not the case."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":457.283,"endTime":460.473,"body":"You can have one country polluting"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":457.283,"endTime":460.473,"body":"quite a lot and not suffer"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":460.713,"endTime":464.883,"body":"necessarily the impact of climate"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":460.713,"endTime":464.883,"body":"change as much as another country."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":464.883,"endTime":467.433,"body":"I think, you know, the Maldives"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":464.883,"endTime":467.433,"body":"are, you know, good case in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":467.433,"endTime":467.773,"body":"point."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":468.193,"endTime":470.853,"body":"we can have huge emissions in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":468.193,"endTime":470.853,"body":"industrialized countries like"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":470.863,"endTime":475.353,"body":"India and China and have very"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":470.863,"endTime":475.353,"body":"little emissions in the Maldives."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":475.443,"endTime":478.623,"body":"And the Maldives will probably"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":475.443,"endTime":478.623,"body":"suffer the greatest cost to their"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":478.673,"endTime":480.843,"body":"civilization and their, their economy."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":481.103,"endTime":482.363,"body":"So that's one problem with it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":482.373,"endTime":485.383,"body":"The other problem that you have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":482.373,"endTime":485.383,"body":"is this sort of whole wealth"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":485.383,"endTime":486.783,"body":"distribution that we still have."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":486.843,"endTime":492.118,"body":"So, I mean, rightly so you look at"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":486.843,"endTime":492.118,"body":"developing countries and they point"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":492.338,"endTime":494.818,"body":"to the Western world and say, but"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":492.338,"endTime":494.818,"body":"you guys have gotten rich off the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":494.828,"endTime":498.378,"body":"back of cheap emissions and cheap"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":494.828,"endTime":498.378,"body":"fossil fuels for the last 200 years."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":498.378,"endTime":500.758,"body":"And we're in we're in this"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":498.378,"endTime":500.758,"body":"problem in the first place."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":500.758,"endTime":502.328,"body":"And now you're asking us to curb"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":502.328,"endTime":502.838,"body":"emissions."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":503.298,"endTime":505.388,"body":"I mean, that does seem quite unfair."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":505.398,"endTime":509.808,"body":"If you I think we're to speak to people"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":505.398,"endTime":509.808,"body":"who are still living in in, in poverty."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":510.038,"endTime":514.593,"body":"And so they rightly demand that, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":510.038,"endTime":514.593,"body":"know, they get compensated by it by"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":514.593,"endTime":516.023,"body":"the developed countries for that."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":516.063,"endTime":517.913,"body":"But now the developed"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":516.063,"endTime":517.913,"body":"countries have to figure out."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":517.933,"endTime":522.153,"body":"Okay, you know who's paying the bill"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":517.933,"endTime":522.153,"body":"and how much and try and convince"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":522.153,"endTime":525.153,"body":"their voters of of doing that."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":525.363,"endTime":528.443,"body":"And you overlay all of that that we're"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":525.363,"endTime":528.443,"body":"sitting in this sort of political"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":528.463,"endTime":533.343,"body":"system where, Our governments need to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":528.463,"endTime":533.343,"body":"prioritize their positions over four"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":533.343,"endTime":538.403,"body":"year or five year electoral cycles and,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":533.343,"endTime":538.403,"body":"and they need to balance, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":538.423,"endTime":542.723,"body":"costs of products, which has to do with"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":538.423,"endTime":542.723,"body":"the input cost of energy, protecting"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":542.723,"endTime":547.743,"body":"the jobs, you know, job sector and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":542.723,"endTime":547.743,"body":"unemployment, and then satisfying, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":547.743,"endTime":549.683,"body":"know, all the, all the climate concerns."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":549.693,"endTime":554.913,"body":"And that's a, you take 230 odd"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":549.693,"endTime":554.913,"body":"governments in the UN, all with"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":554.923,"endTime":559.133,"body":"these factors, and I think you can"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":554.923,"endTime":559.133,"body":"see that there's just no chance."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":560.183,"endTime":562.823,"body":"That they figure out out."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":562.933,"endTime":563.863,"body":"How do we do this?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":563.903,"endTime":565.193,"body":"That is that is fair."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":565.203,"endTime":567.783,"body":"And even if I could find the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":565.203,"endTime":567.783,"body":"agreements who polices this."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":568.443,"endTime":571.333,"body":"So, yeah, so that's that's why I think"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":568.443,"endTime":571.333,"body":"that the carbon emission problem and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":571.333,"endTime":572.643,"body":"and and, of course, the fact that it's."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":573.278,"endTime":577.938,"body":"You know, unlike sulfur or unlike"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":573.278,"endTime":577.938,"body":"ozone, I mean, it's the thing"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":577.938,"endTime":579.358,"body":"that drives the economy, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":579.418,"endTime":585.188,"body":"It's the thing that drives you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":579.418,"endTime":585.188,"body":"political and economic power, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":585.188,"endTime":586.778,"body":"know, in, in, in, in the world."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":586.798,"endTime":591.238,"body":"So, yeah, I think that football is going"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":586.798,"endTime":591.238,"body":"to be kicked around for forever unless"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":591.698,"endTime":594.708,"body":"to Paul's point, we can get together as"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":591.698,"endTime":594.708,"body":"a community and solve this ourselves."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":595.248,"endTime":598.348,"body":"So how do we get together"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":595.248,"endTime":598.348,"body":"as a community and solve this ourselves?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":599.068,"endTime":599.378,"body":"question."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":599.428,"endTime":601.298,"body":"well, I'll let Paul"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":599.428,"endTime":601.298,"body":"explain to you how he's trying to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":601.308,"endTime":604.208,"body":"get, you know, these difficulties"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":601.308,"endTime":604.208,"body":"of trying to mobilize people."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":604.208,"endTime":609.418,"body":"But, but, but I think the solution"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":604.208,"endTime":609.418,"body":"that we've come up with is it takes"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":609.418,"endTime":613.138,"body":"a little bit of mental gymnastics"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":609.418,"endTime":613.138,"body":"sometimes for I guess the man in the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":613.138,"endTime":614.548,"body":"street to get their head around it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":614.648,"endTime":620.278,"body":"But we've really come down, we've,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":614.648,"endTime":620.278,"body":"we've really sort of concluded"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":620.278,"endTime":621.288,"body":"the following is that first."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":622.968,"endTime":627.008,"body":"You've got to make it possible for every"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":622.968,"endTime":627.008,"body":"man in the street, every business, every"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":627.958,"endTime":632.408,"body":"enterprise, every economic actor in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":627.958,"endTime":632.408,"body":"this, in this market to be able to take"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":632.961,"endTime":637.124,"body":"climate action every day and to take"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":632.961,"endTime":637.124,"body":"that climate action in an effortless,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":637.224,"endTime":640.534,"body":"low cost, low friction kind of way."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":640.534,"endTime":644.574,"body":"At the moment, I mean, there's a whole"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":640.534,"endTime":644.574,"body":"lot of frustration, I think, with the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":644.574,"endTime":648.104,"body":"average person saying, like, we know"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":644.574,"endTime":648.104,"body":"climate change is a problem and we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":648.104,"endTime":650.174,"body":"would like to do something about it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":650.214,"endTime":654.164,"body":"But other than looking towards my"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":650.214,"endTime":654.164,"body":"government and going around and I"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":654.164,"endTime":658.434,"body":"don't know, throwing orange paint on on"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":654.164,"endTime":658.434,"body":"Renaissance masters you know, gives you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":658.434,"endTime":660.614,"body":"an idea of the kind of frustration out"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":661.154,"endTime":661.304,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":661.304,"endTime":662.684,"body":"But that's clearly not the answer."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":662.684,"endTime":664.814,"body":"We need some other kind of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":662.684,"endTime":664.814,"body":"means to make it really easy for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":664.814,"endTime":666.534,"body":"people to take climate action."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":666.534,"endTime":670.104,"body":"And then secondly, I think we need"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":666.534,"endTime":670.104,"body":"to we need to accept the fact that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":671.298,"endTime":673.568,"body":"because the government's aren't"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":671.298,"endTime":673.568,"body":"going to find this consensus."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":673.998,"endTime":680.678,"body":"We need to move beyond compliance"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":673.998,"endTime":680.678,"body":"and ethics as the major driver for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":680.758,"endTime":685.738,"body":"demand to decarbonize or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":680.758,"endTime":685.738,"body":"to lower carbon carbon emissions."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":686.118,"endTime":690.953,"body":"We need to find an actual use case"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":686.118,"endTime":690.953,"body":"for carbon mitigation outcomes."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":691.073,"endTime":695.673,"body":"So, you know, any sort of outcome that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":691.073,"endTime":695.673,"body":"that comes from carbon emission reduction"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":695.703,"endTime":701.243,"body":"or avoidance or sequestration, we need"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":695.703,"endTime":701.243,"body":"to find an actual everyday utility for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":701.243,"endTime":707.363,"body":"it that is useful in your everyday life"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":701.243,"endTime":707.363,"body":"to to to every person so that we have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":707.723,"endTime":712.243,"body":"real demand and that the source of demand"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":707.723,"endTime":712.243,"body":"needs to be needs to be really large."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":712.243,"endTime":716.303,"body":"And that's that's where we've come"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":712.243,"endTime":716.303,"body":"down to to the conclusion that what we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":716.303,"endTime":720.343,"body":"really should maybe perhaps be doing"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":716.303,"endTime":720.343,"body":"is thinking about regulating our money"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":720.343,"endTime":723.106,"body":"supply on the back of, carbon mitigation."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":723.116,"endTime":727.386,"body":"So have money have our money backed"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":723.116,"endTime":727.386,"body":"by carbon in the way that money used"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":727.396,"endTime":730.156,"body":"to be backed by by gold as an example."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":731.036,"endTime":732.556,"body":"Because what then happens is."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":733.476,"endTime":736.376,"body":"As the economy, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":733.476,"endTime":736.376,"body":"the economy expands, so there's"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":736.416,"endTime":740.236,"body":"the value in the economy and to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":736.416,"endTime":740.236,"body":"represent that expansion and value"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":740.236,"endTime":741.856,"body":"in the economy you need more money."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":742.326,"endTime":747.686,"body":"But if the money is somehow tied back"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":742.326,"endTime":747.686,"body":"to the availability of carbon mitigation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":747.696,"endTime":753.996,"body":"outcomes, then that expansion and economic"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":747.696,"endTime":753.996,"body":"growth transmits a demand signal to to the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":753.996,"endTime":758.816,"body":"producers of carbon mitigation outcomes"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":753.996,"endTime":758.816,"body":"and, you know, reflects there in pricing."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":758.816,"endTime":763.011,"body":"And since and since we already"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":758.816,"endTime":763.011,"body":"have, such a large money market"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":763.271,"endTime":766.391,"body":"effectively because people have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":763.271,"endTime":766.391,"body":"everyday needs for money, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":766.461,"endTime":767.661,"body":"You need it to store value."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":767.961,"endTime":768.981,"body":"You need it to transact"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":769.021,"endTime":769.401,"body":"daily."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":769.901,"endTime":776.721,"body":"If we can channel a portion of, of that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":769.901,"endTime":776.721,"body":"everyday use into a currency backed by"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":776.771,"endTime":781.004,"body":"by carbon mitigation, then you're going"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":776.771,"endTime":781.004,"body":"to be channeling huge amounts of demand."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":781.374,"endTime":786.314,"body":"And that way, every person every day can"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":781.374,"endTime":786.314,"body":"continue with their lives, transacting and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":786.624,"endTime":788.854,"body":"participating as an actor in the economy."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":788.854,"endTime":793.244,"body":"But every sort of contribution that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":788.854,"endTime":793.244,"body":"you make to the economy is now having"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":793.244,"endTime":796.806,"body":"this additional effect that it's"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":793.244,"endTime":796.806,"body":"creating this really positive demand"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":796.896,"endTime":799.166,"body":"signal on on carbon mitigation."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":799.166,"endTime":803.266,"body":"I mean, if you think about, if you think"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":799.166,"endTime":803.266,"body":"about gold just as a, you know, as an"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":803.266,"endTime":808.233,"body":"analogy and an example the world based"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":803.266,"endTime":808.233,"body":"its currency on, supply on gold since"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":808.233,"endTime":813.003,"body":"1971, when we finally moved off the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":808.233,"endTime":813.003,"body":"gold standard in, in totality, right."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":813.003,"endTime":817.263,"body":"And, and what that meant was that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":813.003,"endTime":817.263,"body":"if you think about gold as a, as an"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":817.273,"endTime":822.538,"body":"article, it has no other use case"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":817.273,"endTime":822.538,"body":"really other than as a store of value."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":823.263,"endTime":825.163,"body":"And we have mined gold."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":825.763,"endTime":831.153,"body":"And to this day, people will go kilometers"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":825.763,"endTime":831.153,"body":"under the ground at great expense to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":831.153,"endTime":836.273,"body":"go and retrieve, retrieve gold because"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":831.153,"endTime":836.273,"body":"for years we've, we've said that gold"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":836.273,"endTime":841.139,"body":"is convertible into currency that can"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":836.273,"endTime":841.139,"body":"be, you know, that can be be used."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":841.139,"endTime":845.039,"body":"And up until 1971 it's no, it's no"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":841.139,"endTime":845.039,"body":"surprise that gold mining was the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":845.039,"endTime":848.459,"body":"biggest industry in the biggest industry"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":845.039,"endTime":848.459,"body":"in the world because the world's"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":848.459,"endTime":850.809,"body":"money supply was based off off gold."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":850.989,"endTime":855.089,"body":"Since then, we've gone into, in,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":850.989,"endTime":855.089,"body":"in, into creating our money supply"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":855.089,"endTime":856.709,"body":"off the issue of government debt."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":856.979,"endTime":859.139,"body":"And guess what's the biggest"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":856.979,"endTime":859.139,"body":"industry today in the world?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":859.139,"endTime":860.429,"body":"It's the financial industry."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":860.799,"endTime":864.639,"body":"And we think that sort of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":860.799,"endTime":864.639,"body":"logic, that logic holds."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":864.969,"endTime":869.254,"body":"Just start basing a portion of the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":864.969,"endTime":869.254,"body":"money supply, at least on carbon"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":869.254,"endTime":873.584,"body":"mitigation outcomes, and you will"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":869.254,"endTime":873.584,"body":"create pure and actual demand on the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":873.584,"endTime":876.038,"body":"one side to expand the carbon markets."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":876.098,"endTime":880.438,"body":"And by the same time, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":876.098,"endTime":880.438,"body":"giving everybody the the ability to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":880.438,"endTime":884.218,"body":"at least translate their economic"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":880.438,"endTime":884.218,"body":"activity into into underlying good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":884.853,"endTime":885.323,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":886.733,"endTime":891.633,"body":"How do we do that from"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":886.733,"endTime":891.633,"body":"a practical perspective?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":891.873,"endTime":896.013,"body":"I mean, there, there, there's all"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":891.873,"endTime":896.013,"body":"kinds of potential issues there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":896.013,"endTime":900.343,"body":"I see with, first of all, you have to,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":896.013,"endTime":900.343,"body":"you have to convince governments, and you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":900.343,"endTime":904.973,"body":"have to convince central banks and you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":900.343,"endTime":904.973,"body":"have to convince people on the streets"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":904.973,"endTime":906.933,"body":"and, you know, so on and so on and so on."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":906.933,"endTime":912.153,"body":"But even setting that apart for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":906.933,"endTime":912.153,"body":"a second, just from a practical"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":912.243,"endTime":918.493,"body":"implementation perspective, who's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":912.243,"endTime":918.493,"body":"doing the carbon mitigation, how, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":918.503,"endTime":922.743,"body":"how is that being verified and then"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":918.503,"endTime":922.743,"body":"converted into some form of value?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":925.358,"endTime":925.618,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":925.618,"endTime":928.588,"body":"So the, so the weather carbon, I"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":925.618,"endTime":928.588,"body":"mean, this is where I think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":956.028,"endTime":959.5780000000001,"body":"we can leverage the stuff that the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":956.028,"endTime":959.5780000000001,"body":"carbon markets have, you know, have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":959.5780000000001,"endTime":967.638,"body":"already there's been a lot of work"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":959.5780000000001,"endTime":967.638,"body":"done in terms of creating the practices"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":967.638,"endTime":972.0780000000001,"body":"and, and I guess the methodologies"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":967.638,"endTime":972.0780000000001,"body":"for converting a carbon mitigation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":972.418,"endTime":974.8580000000001,"body":"activity into some kind of commodity."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":975.3580000000001,"endTime":978.038,"body":"And you know, this is work that's"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":975.3580000000001,"endTime":978.038,"body":"been done over the last three decades"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":978.238,"endTime":979.5580000000001,"body":"for the, for the carbon market."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":979.5580000000001,"endTime":983.7230000000001,"body":"So typically how it works is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":979.5580000000001,"endTime":983.7230000000001,"body":"there's there's various different"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":983.7230000000001,"endTime":985.3030000000001,"body":"kinds of projects out there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":985.5630000000001,"endTime":988.8130000000001,"body":"Some of them are nature based, so"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":985.5630000000001,"endTime":988.8130000000001,"body":"things like, you know, reforestation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":988.8130000000001,"endTime":992.1400000000001,"body":"and the cultivation of mangrove"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":988.8130000000001,"endTime":992.1400000000001,"body":"forests and things like that."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":992.6500000000001,"endTime":997.2600000000001,"body":"There are also, carbon technologies"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":992.6500000000001,"endTime":997.2600000000001,"body":"out there like biochar and direct"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":997.2900000000001,"endTime":1000.6400000000001,"body":"air carbon capture where you have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":997.2900000000001,"endTime":1000.6400000000001,"body":"these large, facilities that, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1000.6400000000001,"endTime":1004.2750000000001,"body":"know, actually suck in air and then"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1000.6400000000001,"endTime":1004.2750000000001,"body":"trap, you know, trap the carbon"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1004.695,"endTime":1006.605,"body":"through chemical, chemical processes."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1007.0450000000001,"endTime":1010.475,"body":"And there's a host of, there's a"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1007.0450000000001,"endTime":1010.475,"body":"whole host of range of, of things in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1010.475,"endTime":1015.8050000000001,"body":"between, such as accelerating the path"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1010.475,"endTime":1015.8050000000001,"body":"towards renewable and, and so forth."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1015.8050000000001,"endTime":1021.24,"body":"And then over the last 30 years, these"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1015.8050000000001,"endTime":1021.24,"body":"independent sort of registries and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1021.24,"endTime":1026.04,"body":"bodies have been been created places like"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1021.24,"endTime":1026.04,"body":"Vera and the gold standard and the new"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1026.08,"endTime":1027.9,"body":"registries coming up every, every day."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1028.64,"endTime":1034.98,"body":"And these projects that that aim to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1028.64,"endTime":1034.98,"body":"to remove carbon from, from the air"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1035.05,"endTime":1039.25,"body":"or, or create some kind of mitigation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1035.05,"endTime":1039.25,"body":"outcome, there are methodologies,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1039.37,"endTime":1043.2,"body":"methodologies applied to establish"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1039.37,"endTime":1043.2,"body":"what the baseline is, then there are"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1043.22,"endTime":1047.05,"body":"measurements that get taken by to get"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1043.22,"endTime":1047.05,"body":"taken on a periodic basis, and those"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1047.05,"endTime":1049.61,"body":"are independently verified and audited."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1049.64,"endTime":1055.53,"body":"And once all of these, practices have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1049.64,"endTime":1055.53,"body":"taken place there are effectively these"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1055.53,"endTime":1059.3600000000001,"body":"tradable certificates that are that are"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1055.53,"endTime":1059.3600000000001,"body":"issued and, you know, these certificates"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1059.3600000000001,"endTime":1064.1200000000001,"body":"have a, you know, have a face value"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1059.3600000000001,"endTime":1064.1200000000001,"body":"of, so many tons of carbon dioxide that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1064.1200000000001,"endTime":1069.21,"body":"has been removed in in this particular"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1064.1200000000001,"endTime":1069.21,"body":"year, they have, they come in vintages."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1069.31,"endTime":1076.3600000000001,"body":"So, you know, the 2021 or 2022, 2023,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1069.31,"endTime":1076.3600000000001,"body":"so, you know, every year, these things"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1076.3600000000001,"endTime":1080.06,"body":"get measured, they get recorded, they"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1076.3600000000001,"endTime":1080.06,"body":"get verified, and then they get put"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1080.06,"endTime":1081.76,"body":"into tradable tradable certificates."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1081.76,"endTime":1084.69,"body":"And these are the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1081.76,"endTime":1084.69,"body":"certificates that some of the."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1085.575,"endTime":1085.655,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1086.06,"endTime":1089.18,"body":"Yeah, in the voluntary market, at least"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1086.06,"endTime":1089.18,"body":"some companies who have net zero goals"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1089.18,"endTime":1093.96,"body":"and are buying as, as a means to try"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1089.18,"endTime":1093.96,"body":"and offset their, their footprint."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1093.96,"endTime":1097.394,"body":"So those are the, the source or"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1093.96,"endTime":1097.394,"body":"those, those commodities are there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1097.884,"endTime":1101.404,"body":"I think if you look at that market,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1097.884,"endTime":1101.404,"body":"that market, as I said, to you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1101.414,"endTime":1104.794,"body":"has certain issues at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1101.414,"endTime":1104.794,"body":"and that's because there's very,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1104.794,"endTime":1106.624,"body":"very low demand signal in there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1106.944,"endTime":1110.784,"body":"So the market, the markets aren't very"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1106.944,"endTime":1110.784,"body":"liquid, and they're quite fragmented"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1110.784,"endTime":1112.5140000000001,"body":"in the way that they operate."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1112.5140000000001,"endTime":1114.7340000000002,"body":"And they sort of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1112.5140000000001,"endTime":1114.7340000000002,"body":"all the trading happens in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1114.7340000000002,"endTime":1115.914,"body":"an over the counter basis."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1115.924,"endTime":1120.7240000000002,"body":"So I'm not going to sit here and try"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1115.924,"endTime":1120.7240000000002,"body":"and paper over the fact that there are"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1121.184,"endTime":1125.204,"body":"definitely some actors and some moral"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1121.184,"endTime":1125.204,"body":"hazards in that market at the moment."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1125.204,"endTime":1130.0140000000001,"body":"And, people have acted fraudulently"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1125.204,"endTime":1130.0140000000001,"body":"in the past, but that does not,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1130.044,"endTime":1133.914,"body":"that does not mean to say that the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1130.044,"endTime":1133.914,"body":"market is that the idea of the market"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1133.914,"endTime":1137.904,"body":"is bad or that the mechanisms that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1133.914,"endTime":1137.904,"body":"were created aren't necessarily so."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1137.904,"endTime":1142.044,"body":"I think just because the liquidity"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1137.904,"endTime":1142.044,"body":"is so, so low in that market and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1142.124,"endTime":1147.114,"body":"the demand signal is still so weak"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1142.124,"endTime":1147.114,"body":"it's very hard to find the kind of,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1147.419,"endTime":1151.989,"body":"incentives to attract, let's call it"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1147.419,"endTime":1151.989,"body":"the, you know, the, the appropriate"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1151.989,"endTime":1153.559,"body":"policing that a market needs like that."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1153.559,"endTime":1156.8790000000001,"body":"It needs, it needs transparency"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1153.559,"endTime":1156.8790000000001,"body":"and it needs liquidity."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1156.8890000000001,"endTime":1160.739,"body":"Once it has enough participants on the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1156.8890000000001,"endTime":1160.739,"body":"market, then it's not, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1160.739,"endTime":1165.009,"body":"these concentrated actors that are"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1160.739,"endTime":1165.009,"body":"doing deals over the counter there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1165.009,"endTime":1167.299,"body":"Then I think you, you start"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1165.009,"endTime":1167.299,"body":"improving that market a lot."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1167.309,"endTime":1169.439,"body":"It's like any, any market"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1167.309,"endTime":1169.439,"body":"where it starts, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1169.439,"endTime":1173.299,"body":"I think, you know, you, if you were"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1169.439,"endTime":1173.299,"body":"to, you know, buy penny stocks in 1870"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1173.8590000000002,"endTime":1177.909,"body":"outside, you know, outside a tree on"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1173.8590000000002,"endTime":1177.909,"body":"Wall Street, you know, they suffered"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1177.909,"endTime":1182.309,"body":"the same kind of credibility concerns"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1177.909,"endTime":1182.309,"body":"initially, but you know, as the market"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1182.309,"endTime":1186.159,"body":"becomes more mature you have the ability"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1182.309,"endTime":1186.159,"body":"to get, get rid of the bad actors."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1187.509,"endTime":1194.2740000000001,"body":"Okay, so we've got these"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1187.509,"endTime":1194.2740000000001,"body":"organizations who are removing carbon"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1194.284,"endTime":1199.9840000000002,"body":"somehow, whether it's direct air capture,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1194.284,"endTime":1199.9840000000002,"body":"whether it's enhanced weathering,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1199.9840000000002,"endTime":1202.674,"body":"whether it's whatever, planting trees."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1204.874,"endTime":1211.5240000000001,"body":"We have methodologies to verify that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1204.874,"endTime":1211.5240000000001,"body":"they've done that, but what's next?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1211.534,"endTime":1216.584,"body":"How do we take that from there having"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1211.534,"endTime":1216.584,"body":"done that to turning that into money?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1218.029,"endTime":1218.269,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1218.269,"endTime":1220.239,"body":"So I will, I will give you two solutions."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1220.289,"endTime":1224.049,"body":"The one is the really easy solution"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1220.289,"endTime":1224.049,"body":"practically but very hard to get"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1224.069,"endTime":1225.739,"body":"people, you know, very hard to convince."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1225.739,"endTime":1228.469,"body":"And the second one is, is the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1225.739,"endTime":1228.469,"body":"one that we're proposing and that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1228.509,"endTime":1230.644,"body":"we're busy busy implementing."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1230.694,"endTime":1233.824,"body":"Look, I think practically, if you were"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1230.694,"endTime":1233.824,"body":"to, if you were to look at central"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1233.834,"endTime":1238.0140000000001,"body":"banks across, you know, around the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1233.834,"endTime":1238.0140000000001,"body":"world, they could do this really easily."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1238.4840000000002,"endTime":1241.694,"body":"How they would do this practically"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1238.4840000000002,"endTime":1241.694,"body":"would be to create some kind of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1241.694,"endTime":1245.304,"body":"reserve mechanism where at least"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1241.694,"endTime":1245.304,"body":"a portion of the money supply is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1245.304,"endTime":1247.164,"body":"based on carbon mitigation outcomes."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1247.214,"endTime":1252.0990000000002,"body":"In other words the Federal Reserve"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1247.214,"endTime":1252.0990000000002,"body":"or the, you know, ECB could say to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1252.0990000000002,"endTime":1256.289,"body":"the market, listen, we will buy and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1252.0990000000002,"endTime":1256.289,"body":"hold these carbon credits and carbon"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1256.289,"endTime":1261.039,"body":"allowances on our balance sheet, and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1256.289,"endTime":1261.039,"body":"then they can regulate the money supply"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1261.039,"endTime":1264.539,"body":"in terms of how much they're buying and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1261.039,"endTime":1264.539,"body":"how much they're selling of these, these"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1264.5990000000002,"endTime":1270.3490000000002,"body":"assets so that they can balance economic"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1264.5990000000002,"endTime":1270.3490000000002,"body":"ambitions with environmental goals."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1270.3590000000002,"endTime":1276.529,"body":"So the IPCC has set a specific pathway for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1270.3590000000002,"endTime":1276.529,"body":"mitigation outcome that we can require."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1276.919,"endTime":1282.1290000000001,"body":"And the central banks could effectively"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1276.919,"endTime":1282.1290000000001,"body":"use that as the, you know, as the forward"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1282.1290000000001,"endTime":1285.219,"body":"guidance and saying, this is how much"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1282.1290000000001,"endTime":1285.219,"body":"we're going to, how much we're going to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1285.219,"endTime":1288.499,"body":"buy, and we will issue money liquidity"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1285.219,"endTime":1288.499,"body":"to the market on the back of that."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1288.519,"endTime":1291.44,"body":"So that's, that's kind of a"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1288.519,"endTime":1291.44,"body":"very simple simple application."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1291.46,"endTime":1295.21,"body":"And I think if the central bank of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1291.46,"endTime":1295.21,"body":"the Fed did that tomorrow, you'll"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1295.26,"endTime":1299.17,"body":"see a lot of investment channeling"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1295.26,"endTime":1299.17,"body":"into into these kind of activities."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1299.2,"endTime":1303.31,"body":"The other thing that they could do,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1299.2,"endTime":1303.31,"body":"for instance, is they could maybe, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1303.31,"endTime":1307.997,"body":"know, each of the commercial banks have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1303.31,"endTime":1307.997,"body":"reserve accounts at the federal or the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1308.227,"endTime":1312.207,"body":"central banks today, and those reserve"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1308.227,"endTime":1312.207,"body":"accounts get set at certain minimums"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1312.637,"endTime":1316.727,"body":"to, you know, restrict the amount of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1312.637,"endTime":1316.727,"body":"new loans that the banks can write."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1317.077,"endTime":1321.127,"body":"Another way that they could enforce"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1317.077,"endTime":1321.127,"body":"this was simply to, augment that reserve"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1321.127,"endTime":1324.547,"body":"account to also include carbon credits"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1321.127,"endTime":1324.547,"body":"and saying, look, you know, you need to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1324.557,"endTime":1328.682,"body":"have so many carbon credits and based"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1324.557,"endTime":1328.682,"body":"on that, it's the amount of new debt"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1328.682,"endTime":1330.5520000000001,"body":"that you can issue to the to the market."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1330.8120000000001,"endTime":1333.509,"body":"And I think that will obviously"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1330.8120000000001,"endTime":1333.509,"body":"incentivize, the commercial banks to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1333.509,"endTime":1337.459,"body":"start funding investments into these"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1333.509,"endTime":1337.459,"body":"sustainable, sustainable activities."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1337.8490000000002,"endTime":1341.729,"body":"But as you rightly point out, I"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1337.8490000000002,"endTime":1341.729,"body":"don't think that the central banks"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1341.729,"endTime":1343.6390000000001,"body":"are going to be easily coerced."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1343.6390000000001,"endTime":1346.969,"body":"It's gonna either require a very"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1343.6390000000001,"endTime":1346.969,"body":"brave central bank somewhere to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1346.969,"endTime":1350.519,"body":"take a first mover or secondly,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1346.969,"endTime":1350.519,"body":"they're gonna have to find some"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1350.519,"endTime":1354.569,"body":"kind of inspecie reserve mechanism"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1350.519,"endTime":1354.569,"body":"between, between the central banks."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1354.909,"endTime":1358.5990000000002,"body":"And that is beset with the same"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1354.909,"endTime":1358.5990000000002,"body":"collective sort of action dilemma"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1358.5990000000002,"endTime":1360.909,"body":"that, that we spoke of of earlier."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1360.909,"endTime":1365.084,"body":"So what, what we've decided to do over"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1360.909,"endTime":1365.084,"body":"the last three years is we've just said."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1365.539,"endTime":1369.579,"body":"Look, maybe there's a maybe the right"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1365.539,"endTime":1369.579,"body":"way to do this is just to create an"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1369.6090000000002,"endTime":1374.459,"body":"independent global currency, that is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1369.6090000000002,"endTime":1374.459,"body":"entirely backed by carbon mitigation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1374.519,"endTime":1381.8790000000001,"body":"outcomes and put that in the hands of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1374.519,"endTime":1381.8790000000001,"body":"every person, global citizen out there"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1381.8990000000001,"endTime":1387.1490000000001,"body":"who believes that carbon mitigation has"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1381.8990000000001,"endTime":1387.1490000000001,"body":"has value and ask them to demonstrate"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1387.179,"endTime":1392.409,"body":"that belief by using it as money because"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1387.179,"endTime":1392.409,"body":"money is trust and money is value."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1392.6290000000001,"endTime":1394.769,"body":"A representation of value."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1394.8590000000002,"endTime":1401.439,"body":"So so we have over the last two"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1394.8590000000002,"endTime":1401.439,"body":"years developed the infrastructure to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1401.439,"endTime":1404.435,"body":"power a independent global currency."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1404.895,"endTime":1411.67,"body":"And thereby asking the market to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1404.895,"endTime":1411.67,"body":"effectively drive this process because,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1411.74,"endTime":1415.68,"body":"you know, the more the market decides"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1411.74,"endTime":1415.68,"body":"to use money based on carbon versus"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1416.17,"endTime":1418.72,"body":"let's call it government issued money."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1418.92,"endTime":1423.16,"body":"You are, you are effectively"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1418.92,"endTime":1423.16,"body":"starting to transmit money demand"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1423.2,"endTime":1428.3700000000001,"body":"towards, you know, moral money or"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1423.2,"endTime":1428.3700000000001,"body":"carbon mitigation actions naturally."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1428.4,"endTime":1432.0700000000002,"body":"So what have we done practically"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1428.4,"endTime":1432.0700000000002,"body":"to make that possible?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1432.69,"endTime":1435.28,"body":"So we've created a new currency."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1435.3300000000002,"endTime":1440.5900000000001,"body":"We call it Toco for short internally,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1435.3300000000002,"endTime":1440.5900000000001,"body":"but it's it's really just an"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1440.5900000000001,"endTime":1443.6100000000001,"body":"abbreviations of ton of carbon dioxide."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1443.6100000000001,"endTime":1447.02,"body":"If you if you've got a chemical"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1443.6100000000001,"endTime":1447.02,"body":"background, you'll recognize O."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1447.15,"endTime":1447.31,"body":"C."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1447.3500000000001,"endTime":1447.47,"body":"O."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1447.47,"endTime":1450.5,"body":"Is the molecular formula"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1447.47,"endTime":1450.5,"body":"for carbon dioxide."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1450.5,"endTime":1452.3200000000002,"body":"So we call it the Toco."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1453.05,"endTime":1458.47,"body":"Each unit of that currency represents"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1453.05,"endTime":1458.47,"body":"one ton of carbon dioxide equivalent that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1458.48,"endTime":1462.21,"body":"has been credibly mitigated and verified."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1462.805,"endTime":1468.865,"body":"If all the currency in circulation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1462.805,"endTime":1468.865,"body":"is therefore entirely backed by a"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1468.865,"endTime":1471.415,"body":"portfolio of carbon mitigation assets."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1471.7250000000001,"endTime":1477.295,"body":"And when I mean a portfolio is we buy all"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1471.7250000000001,"endTime":1477.295,"body":"kinds of, we buy the market effectively."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1477.295,"endTime":1480.925,"body":"We buy all kinds of carbon mitigation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1477.295,"endTime":1480.925,"body":"outcomes and house them in a portfolio."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1482.3,"endTime":1485.46,"body":"We've taken that portfolio and that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1482.3,"endTime":1485.46,"body":"portfolio is put in the custody of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1485.46,"endTime":1489.02,"body":"something that we call The Carbon"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1485.46,"endTime":1489.02,"body":"Reserve, which is a nonprofit foundation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1489.0700000000002,"endTime":1490.75,"body":"that we created in Switzerland."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1491.05,"endTime":1497.2,"body":"And that nonprofit independent"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1491.05,"endTime":1497.2,"body":"foundation is effectively mandated to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1497.2,"endTime":1501.91,"body":"maintain this convertibility of the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1497.2,"endTime":1501.91,"body":"currency into the underlying and to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1501.91,"endTime":1506.05,"body":"responsibly try and expand this expand"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1501.91,"endTime":1506.05,"body":"the money supply because they should"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1506.15,"endTime":1509.96,"body":"expand the money supply, obviously"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1506.15,"endTime":1509.96,"body":"you've got a greater, climate impact."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1510.45,"endTime":1514.694,"body":"And and the carbon reserve"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1510.45,"endTime":1514.694,"body":"effectively acts like like an"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1514.694,"endTime":1516.434,"body":"independent central bank, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1516.434,"endTime":1518.2740000000001,"body":"That that runs this this currency."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1518.2740000000001,"endTime":1522.4840000000002,"body":"And it, as I said, maintains the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1518.2740000000001,"endTime":1522.4840000000002,"body":"convertibility of the currency into the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1522.4840000000002,"endTime":1528.304,"body":"underlying, but it also will leverage its"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1522.4840000000002,"endTime":1528.304,"body":"balance sheet to support any sort of risks"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1528.354,"endTime":1532.534,"body":"that might happen on the in the currency"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1528.354,"endTime":1532.534,"body":"and provide liquidity to the market."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1534.0240000000001,"endTime":1538.7440000000001,"body":"And then to support rapid adoption"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1534.0240000000001,"endTime":1538.7440000000001,"body":"we've created a payment system for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1538.7440000000001,"endTime":1542.874,"body":"the currency is sort of peer to peer"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1538.7440000000001,"endTime":1542.874,"body":"payment system that's available to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1542.874,"endTime":1545.9940000000001,"body":"anyone anywhere in the world where"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1542.874,"endTime":1545.9940000000001,"body":"that has an internet connection."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1545.9940000000001,"endTime":1550.3990000000001,"body":"So that makes it immediately possible"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1545.9940000000001,"endTime":1550.3990000000001,"body":"for you via an app that you download"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1550.3990000000001,"endTime":1554.179,"body":"from the app store to immediately"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1550.3990000000001,"endTime":1554.179,"body":"convert some of your current currency"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1554.189,"endTime":1556.8020000000001,"body":"into a currency backed by carbon."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1557.142,"endTime":1561.452,"body":"And then you can use that app or that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1557.142,"endTime":1561.452,"body":"wallet that payment system in the same"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1561.452,"endTime":1566.0520000000001,"body":"way that use a Tap and Go sort of payment"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1561.452,"endTime":1566.0520000000001,"body":"way to go to participating merchants in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1566.0520000000001,"endTime":1570.787,"body":"your community who, you know, are prepared"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1566.0520000000001,"endTime":1570.787,"body":"to accept the currency and you you can"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1570.787,"endTime":1572.987,"body":"pay with the currency at the merchant."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1573.757,"endTime":1577.707,"body":"And therefore, the idea is just simply is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1573.757,"endTime":1577.707,"body":"the more people start using the currency,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1577.867,"endTime":1580.627,"body":"the more currency there is in circulation."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1580.627,"endTime":1583.717,"body":"And the more you know, currency"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1580.627,"endTime":1583.717,"body":"there's in circulation."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1583.717,"endTime":1589.227,"body":"It means the more let's fiat that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1583.717,"endTime":1589.227,"body":"the carbon reserve is receiving."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1589.227,"endTime":1592.837,"body":"So money that it's receiving from"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1589.227,"endTime":1592.837,"body":"people who are exchanging and it can use"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1592.847,"endTime":1597.6870000000001,"body":"that to start buying carbon mitigation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1592.847,"endTime":1597.6870000000001,"body":"assets on the community's behalf and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1597.6870000000001,"endTime":1600.881,"body":"transmit that demand signal there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1601.201,"endTime":1603.751,"body":"So that's that's sort of the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1601.201,"endTime":1603.751,"body":"scheme that we that we did."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1603.751,"endTime":1608.121,"body":"And then in February last year, we,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1603.751,"endTime":1608.121,"body":"we decided to put it into practice"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1608.2910000000002,"endTime":1611.8110000000001,"body":"in a sort of real world experiment."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1611.8410000000001,"endTime":1616.742,"body":"And Paul took this whole sort of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1611.8410000000001,"endTime":1616.742,"body":"concept and took it to his hometown"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1616.742,"endTime":1619.7820000000002,"body":"and, and we actually deployed it"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1616.742,"endTime":1619.7820000000002,"body":"there over the last seven to eight"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1619.7820000000002,"endTime":1623.262,"body":"months to see you know, how, how"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1619.7820000000002,"endTime":1623.262,"body":"does it work in practice effectively?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1623.342,"endTime":1624.192,"body":"And does it work?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1625.4270000000001,"endTime":1626.1970000000001,"body":"Okay, okay, great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1627.767,"endTime":1633.557,"body":"So I guess a couple of questions and I'll"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1627.767,"endTime":1633.557,"body":"come to you, Paul, to tell me about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1633.557,"endTime":1642.967,"body":"the implementation in a sec, but how do"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1633.557,"endTime":1642.967,"body":"people who buy Toco, how do they know"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1643.507,"endTime":1647.454,"body":"that the carbon has actually been removed?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1647.454,"endTime":1653.598,"body":"Because to your point earlier, there have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1647.454,"endTime":1653.598,"body":"been lots of issues with offset schemes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1653.598,"endTime":1660.412,"body":"and things where, you know people planted"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1653.598,"endTime":1660.412,"body":"forests off the back of offsets and then"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1660.412,"endTime":1664.692,"body":"the forest burned down or the forest"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1660.412,"endTime":1664.692,"body":"were going to be planted anyway, or, you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1664.692,"endTime":1667.362,"body":"know, whatever it is, there's all kinds"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1664.692,"endTime":1667.362,"body":"of problems with those kinds of markets."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1667.362,"endTime":1673.082,"body":"So if I buy a Toco today, how do I know"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1667.362,"endTime":1673.082,"body":"that it's actually backed by carbon that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1673.232,"endTime":1674.958,"body":"has been removed from the atmosphere?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1675.348,"endTime":1678.728,"body":"The approach that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1675.348,"endTime":1678.728,"body":"the carbon reserve takes is twofold."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1678.738,"endTime":1681.818,"body":"But I think philosophically, the way that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1678.738,"endTime":1681.818,"body":"we look at the market at the moment is to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1682.028,"endTime":1686.768,"body":"say, yes, we recognize, we recognize that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1682.028,"endTime":1686.768,"body":"there are integrity risks when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1686.768,"endTime":1688.8880000000001,"body":"some of these some of these carbon assets."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1689.438,"endTime":1693.8780000000002,"body":"So the first thing that we do is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1689.438,"endTime":1693.8780000000002,"body":"where we think that we add value"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1694.358,"endTime":1698.588,"body":"and create higher levels of lower"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1694.358,"endTime":1698.588,"body":"levels of risk for the market is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1698.598,"endTime":1706.278,"body":"that the carbon reserve basically"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1698.598,"endTime":1706.278,"body":"buys a portfolio of of assets, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1706.348,"endTime":1713.948,"body":"So that portfolio that portfolio"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1706.348,"endTime":1713.948,"body":"represents all the Tocos in in supply."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1713.988,"endTime":1720.798,"body":"So we're pooling risks that might exist on"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1713.988,"endTime":1720.798,"body":"an individual level into into a portfolio."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1720.848,"endTime":1724.708,"body":"So in the same way that the central bank"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1720.848,"endTime":1724.708,"body":"does that with, you know, the different"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1724.708,"endTime":1726.728,"body":"kinds of debts debt that it buys."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1727.1280000000002,"endTime":1732.077,"body":"So, yes, it is still likely that you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1727.1280000000002,"endTime":1732.077,"body":"might find post the fact of owning a"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1732.2920000000001,"endTime":1737.212,"body":"owning a certain kind of asset that yes,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1732.2920000000001,"endTime":1737.212,"body":"maybe the checks and balances weren't,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1737.2720000000002,"endTime":1741.502,"body":"you know, weren't as great to maybe that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1737.2720000000002,"endTime":1741.502,"body":"the forest in question was never, was"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1741.502,"endTime":1743.882,"body":"never going to be additional, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1743.882,"endTime":1748.152,"body":"But we, but what we think this allows"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1743.882,"endTime":1748.152,"body":"the carbon reserve to do on behalf of the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1748.152,"endTime":1752.502,"body":"community is it can take that knock on"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1748.152,"endTime":1752.502,"body":"that portfolio because it's only, it's not"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1752.502,"endTime":1754.632,"body":"a single asset that anybody is exposed to."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1754.632,"endTime":1755.382,"body":"It's a portfolio."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1755.382,"endTime":1759.6670000000001,"body":"So if there's a single event the carbon"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1755.382,"endTime":1759.6670000000001,"body":"reserve can write that event in its"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1759.6770000000001,"endTime":1764.707,"body":"portfolio and it doesn't really have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1759.6770000000001,"endTime":1764.707,"body":"a meaningful impact on an individual,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1764.757,"endTime":1767.227,"body":"let's call it unit basis of, of the Toco."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1767.247,"endTime":1769.597,"body":"So you're getting the portfolio"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1767.247,"endTime":1769.597,"body":"you know, risk effect."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1770.307,"endTime":1775.3790000000001,"body":"And then the second thing that the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1770.307,"endTime":1775.3790000000001,"body":"carbon reserve does is it looks at all"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1775.3790000000001,"endTime":1780.219,"body":"of these in the assets that it buys, and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1775.3790000000001,"endTime":1780.219,"body":"it does a risk, a fairly comprehensive"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1780.219,"endTime":1781.909,"body":"risk assessment on on the asset."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1782.519,"endTime":1784.069,"body":"And what do I mean by risk assessment?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1784.079,"endTime":1789.719,"body":"So we go and look at, you know, the kind"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1784.079,"endTime":1789.719,"body":"of the type of project that it is, we look"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1789.719,"endTime":1791.729,"body":"at the methodology that has been applied."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1792.0990000000002,"endTime":1794.6290000000001,"body":"We look at, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1792.0990000000002,"endTime":1794.6290000000001,"body":"is the potential for things"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1794.6290000000001,"endTime":1795.829,"body":"like, you know, leakage?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1796.179,"endTime":1799.5990000000002,"body":"What is the potential"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1796.179,"endTime":1799.5990000000002,"body":"for how permanent is it?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1800.0990000000002,"endTime":1801.7740000000001,"body":"You know, how durable You know, is it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1801.934,"endTime":1803.2740000000001,"body":"Take a forest as an example."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1803.554,"endTime":1806.804,"body":"Yes, you can have a forest today, but it"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1803.554,"endTime":1806.804,"body":"can still go up in smoke later, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1806.824,"endTime":1810.614,"body":"That's a, that's, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1806.824,"endTime":1810.614,"body":"a particular risk that sits there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1810.614,"endTime":1814.9840000000002,"body":"But that risk is different from, let's"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1810.614,"endTime":1814.9840000000002,"body":"say, direct air carbon capture, where"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1815.2340000000002,"endTime":1819.214,"body":"that stuff is being, stored in the ground"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1815.2340000000002,"endTime":1819.214,"body":"and in the form of cement or whatever"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1819.214,"endTime":1820.864,"body":"the case, whatever the case might be."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1821.194,"endTime":1824.714,"body":"So we've got, we've got these"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1821.194,"endTime":1824.714,"body":"various dimensions that we look at"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1824.814,"endTime":1829.414,"body":"and we, and we then apply a risk"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1824.814,"endTime":1829.414,"body":"assessment on that on those assets."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1829.4840000000002,"endTime":1831.954,"body":"And what we're trying to do is we sort"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1829.4840000000002,"endTime":1831.954,"body":"of trying to think of it in the same"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1831.954,"endTime":1833.7740000000001,"body":"way that people think about debt today."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1834.134,"endTime":1839.874,"body":"And we write them as either triple A"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1834.134,"endTime":1839.874,"body":"or, you know, triple B or a, or a C"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1839.874,"endTime":1841.954,"body":"or a junk, you know, a junk credit."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1842.5990000000002,"endTime":1845.919,"body":"To say that, yes, there is probably"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1842.5990000000002,"endTime":1845.919,"body":"a mitigation outcome that's being"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1845.919,"endTime":1850.749,"body":"achieved, but there's a risk in that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1845.919,"endTime":1850.749,"body":"the face value is actually the value."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1851.339,"endTime":1855.749,"body":"And then after we've risk rated it, we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1851.339,"endTime":1855.749,"body":"adjust the value of that, that asset."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1855.749,"endTime":1858.969,"body":"So if you were to take, for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1855.749,"endTime":1858.969,"body":"example, let's call it some kind of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1858.989,"endTime":1863.429,"body":"reforestation project in somewhere"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1858.989,"endTime":1863.429,"body":"in South America, as an example."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1864.8890000000001,"endTime":1868.289,"body":"The face value of it might be a ton"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1864.8890000000001,"endTime":1868.289,"body":"of carbon dioxide mitigated, but we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1868.289,"endTime":1874.409,"body":"would only book it into the reserve"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1868.289,"endTime":1874.409,"body":"at 700 kilograms as an example."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1874.699,"endTime":1878.6290000000001,"body":"So apply like a 30 percent"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1874.699,"endTime":1878.6290000000001,"body":"risk discount factor on that."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1878.6490000000001,"endTime":1880.999,"body":"And that's the second level"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1878.6490000000001,"endTime":1880.999,"body":"of protection that that we do."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1880.999,"endTime":1885.434,"body":"So the carbon reserve always holds a,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1880.999,"endTime":1885.434,"body":"it holds a portfolio and B, it holds far"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1885.434,"endTime":1891.044,"body":"more actual credits than what it claims"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1885.434,"endTime":1891.044,"body":"the, the value of those credits in terms"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1891.054,"endTime":1893.7540000000001,"body":"of actual carbon mitigation outcome is."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1894.537,"endTime":1898.377,"body":"We have now also started to see the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1894.537,"endTime":1898.377,"body":"emergence of other companies such as B"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1898.377,"endTime":1903.637,"body":"Zero and Renosta   who are trying to offer"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1898.377,"endTime":1903.637,"body":"a service to the market independent rating"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1903.6970000000001,"endTime":1907.047,"body":"service, because we are aware of course,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1903.6970000000001,"endTime":1907.047,"body":"that that, you know, we're marking our"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1907.047,"endTime":1910.0910000000001,"body":"own marking our own work at the moment."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1910.621,"endTime":1913.7910000000002,"body":"But then we, you know, we take into"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1910.621,"endTime":1913.7910000000002,"body":"account, we look at what what B Zero is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1913.7910000000002,"endTime":1918.011,"body":"done with where we've got assets that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1913.7910000000002,"endTime":1918.011,"body":"they've rated and and other companies."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1918.031,"endTime":1920.711,"body":"But again, our view here"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1918.031,"endTime":1920.711,"body":"is this is where we start."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1921.151,"endTime":1923.261,"body":"It is a little bit of scrambled"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1921.151,"endTime":1923.261,"body":"eggs and not, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1923.261,"endTime":1924.531,"body":"perfectly boiled egg yet."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1924.971,"endTime":1928.171,"body":"But it definitely reduces the risk"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1924.971,"endTime":1928.171,"body":"in the market from where it is now."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1928.171,"endTime":1929.521,"body":"So that's a good move forward."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1929.881,"endTime":1934.411,"body":"And then as we get enough demand into"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1929.881,"endTime":1934.411,"body":"this space, we think then it really"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1934.411,"endTime":1938.011,"body":"becomes possible for the likes of, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1934.411,"endTime":1938.011,"body":"know, maybe even a Standard and Poors"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1938.031,"endTime":1942.411,"body":"or a Moody's to get involved here and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1938.031,"endTime":1942.411,"body":"start rating these assets, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1942.461,"endTime":1946.404,"body":"independently and publishing, it because"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1942.461,"endTime":1946.404,"body":"there would be enough economic incentive"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1946.404,"endTime":1951.394,"body":"for them to do that, and so that will"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1946.404,"endTime":1951.394,"body":"be another enhancement in transparency."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1951.424,"endTime":1953.424,"body":"So, so how do we do this Tom?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1953.654,"endTime":1956.374,"body":"Well, we try to be transparent"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1953.654,"endTime":1956.374,"body":"by publishing the portfolio that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1956.374,"endTime":1959.9740000000002,"body":"we have, by publishing the risk"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1956.374,"endTime":1959.9740000000002,"body":"assessments that we have, by inviting"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1959.9740000000002,"endTime":1963.214,"body":"other parties to come and criticize"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1959.9740000000002,"endTime":1963.214,"body":"those, those risk assessments."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1963.604,"endTime":1965.834,"body":"And we're not saying that we're going"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1963.604,"endTime":1965.834,"body":"to get it perfectly right in this,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1965.914,"endTime":1967.4740000000002,"body":"you know, perfectly right every time."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1967.894,"endTime":1972.124,"body":"But we do think that we, that we're making"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1967.894,"endTime":1972.124,"body":"big steps forward in terms of lowering"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":1972.519,"endTime":1974.279,"body":"lowering the risk from where they're now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1974.584,"endTime":1974.9940000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1975.214,"endTime":1975.594,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1975.684,"endTime":1982.914,"body":"And this is obviously a a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1975.684,"endTime":1982.914,"body":"DLT technology currency."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1983.2440000000001,"endTime":1986.534,"body":"So analogous to, to Bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1987.0140000000001,"endTime":1993.5040000000001,"body":"Bitcoin obviously has lots of issues"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1987.0140000000001,"endTime":1993.5040000000001,"body":"around, for example, Bitcoin mining being"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1993.5140000000001,"endTime":1999.144,"body":"massively energy intensive and also the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1993.5140000000001,"endTime":1999.144,"body":"price of Bitcoin at the moment is at an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1999.144,"endTime":2002.7640000000001,"body":"all time high or close to an all time"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1999.144,"endTime":2002.7640000000001,"body":"high if it's not at an all time high, you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2002.7640000000001,"endTime":2008.034,"body":"know, so it's, it's become a speculative"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2002.7640000000001,"endTime":2008.034,"body":"asset is Toco going to have those kinds"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2008.034,"endTime":2010.204,"body":"of issues is, or will it have a set price?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2010.214,"endTime":2012.034,"body":"How is the price of a Toco set?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2013.9740000000002,"endTime":2014.2540000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2014.2540000000001,"endTime":2018.204,"body":"So, just on the, on the point of, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2014.2540000000001,"endTime":2018.204,"body":"know, we, we don't like really being"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2018.204,"endTime":2023.6770000000001,"body":"compared to, to cryptocurrencies because"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2018.204,"endTime":2023.6770000000001,"body":"we think that DLT one really needs to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2023.6870000000001,"endTime":2028.287,"body":"separate the underlying technology from"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2023.6870000000001,"endTime":2028.287,"body":"from let's call it philosophically the way"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2028.287,"endTime":2030.367,"body":"that you, that you approach a currency."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2030.997,"endTime":2035.357,"body":"In our case, I just want to make clear"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2030.997,"endTime":2035.357,"body":"that we are definitely non anonymous."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2035.8970000000002,"endTime":2040.337,"body":"We have gone through quite extensive"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2035.8970000000002,"endTime":2040.337,"body":"work to make certain that we are fully"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2040.337,"endTime":2045.327,"body":"compliant with all the modern day"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2040.337,"endTime":2045.327,"body":"regulations in terms of KYC and, and AMLA."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2045.327,"endTime":2049.252,"body":"And we, we believe in financial stability"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2045.327,"endTime":2049.252,"body":"and consumer protections and stable"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2049.2619999999997,"endTime":2051.152,"body":"banking and all that good things."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2051.302,"endTime":2056.422,"body":"I'm not personally a fan of crypto because"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2051.302,"endTime":2056.422,"body":"I think any currency that's anonymous, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2056.422,"endTime":2059.822,"body":"know, the large enough scale definitely,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2056.422,"endTime":2059.822,"body":"you know, is imbued with moral hazard."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2060.4519999999998,"endTime":2061.892,"body":"So, so that's the first thing."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2061.892,"endTime":2065.252,"body":"And the second thing that, that,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2061.892,"endTime":2065.252,"body":"that cryptocurrency suffer from is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2065.252,"endTime":2070.7019999999998,"body":"the fact that they decentralized"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2065.252,"endTime":2070.7019999999998,"body":"means that their monetary policy"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2070.7019999999998,"endTime":2072.302,"body":"is effectively algorithmic, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2072.302,"endTime":2073.032,"body":"So it's predictable."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2073.032,"endTime":2077.9120000000003,"body":"You know how the how the central"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2073.032,"endTime":2077.9120000000003,"body":"bank or the decentral bank is going"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2077.9120000000003,"endTime":2079.762,"body":"to, to act because it has an algo."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2080.102,"endTime":2083.862,"body":"And that means that obviously that's"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2080.102,"endTime":2083.862,"body":"perfect for speculative attack."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2083.8920000000003,"endTime":2087.992,"body":"If you know exactly how the other party"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2083.8920000000003,"endTime":2087.992,"body":"is going to to react and you can, you can"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2087.992,"endTime":2091.982,"body":"attack that system and, and that creates,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2087.992,"endTime":2091.982,"body":"you know, that creates the volatility."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2092.272,"endTime":2095.222,"body":"The other problem that things"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2092.272,"endTime":2095.222,"body":"like Bitcoin has is very hard"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2095.252,"endTime":2097.492,"body":"to make it to use it every day."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2097.492,"endTime":2102.092,"body":"It takes 14 minutes now for a"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2097.492,"endTime":2102.092,"body":"Bitcoin block to get get written."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2102.092,"endTime":2104.782,"body":"I'm pretty certain that you would"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2102.092,"endTime":2104.782,"body":"not want to wait that long for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2104.782,"endTime":2106.082,"body":"your transaction to complete."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2106.542,"endTime":2111.1420000000003,"body":"And then thirdly, it's a Proof"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2106.542,"endTime":2111.1420000000003,"body":"of Work mechanism which is highly"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2111.1420000000003,"endTime":2114.052,"body":"energy intensive and not great for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2111.1420000000003,"endTime":2114.052,"body":"the not great for the environment."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2114.812,"endTime":2117.6420000000003,"body":"The one thing that we want to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2114.812,"endTime":2117.6420000000003,"body":"take from that is the kind of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2117.6420000000003,"endTime":2119.062,"body":"demand that this can create."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2119.582,"endTime":2123.872,"body":"So the same way that we've created"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2119.582,"endTime":2123.872,"body":"demand for for Bitcoin miners, we want"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2123.872,"endTime":2125.782,"body":"to go create demand for carbon miners."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2125.822,"endTime":2129.8920000000003,"body":"But where we're different is that A, we're"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2125.822,"endTime":2129.8920000000003,"body":"fully, you know, fully red compliant."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2129.962,"endTime":2131.862,"body":"We're also central, centralized."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2131.9120000000003,"endTime":2134.602,"body":"So it's a everything on"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2131.9120000000003,"endTime":2134.602,"body":"all the actors are known."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2134.602,"endTime":2139.1620000000003,"body":"You've got to go through KYC and AMLA"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2134.602,"endTime":2139.1620000000003,"body":"and then we use flexible monetary policy."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2139.202,"endTime":2142.062,"body":"So the carbon reserve acts in the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2139.202,"endTime":2142.062,"body":"same way that a central bank does."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2142.482,"endTime":2147.832,"body":"In that it will from time to time"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2142.482,"endTime":2147.832,"body":"decide what the exchange rate should be."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2148.612,"endTime":2153.402,"body":"It bases that exchange rate on a number"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2148.612,"endTime":2153.402,"body":"of factors and that exchange rate is based"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2153.402,"endTime":2155.942,"body":"on obviously the value of the underlying."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2155.942,"endTime":2160.1820000000002,"body":"So the carbon, what the price in the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2155.942,"endTime":2160.1820000000002,"body":"carbon market are for these, these"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2160.212,"endTime":2163.895,"body":"assets, the risk discounts that we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2160.212,"endTime":2163.895,"body":"need to apply to ensure one ton."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2164.445,"endTime":2169.1150000000002,"body":"So what the carbon reserve does at the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2164.445,"endTime":2169.1150000000002,"body":"moment is it sets, it sets the exchange"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2169.1150000000002,"endTime":2171.0750000000003,"body":"rate and it defends that exchange rate."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2171.1150000000002,"endTime":2176.065,"body":"So it will buy from the market at that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2171.1150000000002,"endTime":2176.065,"body":"exchange rate to keep the exchange"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2176.065,"endTime":2179.905,"body":"rate there because we want to try"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2176.065,"endTime":2179.905,"body":"and keep the currency, really want"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2179.905,"endTime":2183.715,"body":"to dampen the volatility so that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2179.905,"endTime":2183.715,"body":"it is available for for every day."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2183.715,"endTime":2187.025,"body":"So I think at the moment, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2183.715,"endTime":2187.025,"body":"there's no specific sort of time when it,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2187.055,"endTime":2191.555,"body":"when it changes, but the currency remains"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2187.055,"endTime":2191.555,"body":"fairly stable and pegged to the Euro."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2191.885,"endTime":2195.685,"body":"You know, for quite some, for quite"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2191.885,"endTime":2195.685,"body":"some time, it only just moves when we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2195.685,"endTime":2201.26,"body":"can't buy assets at, the pricing that we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2195.685,"endTime":2201.26,"body":"need to to support support the demand."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2201.29,"endTime":2203.79,"body":"So again, I think Stellenbosch"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2201.29,"endTime":2203.79,"body":"there is instructive."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2203.79,"endTime":2206.46,"body":"We've we saw the currency"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2203.79,"endTime":2206.46,"body":"be broadly stable."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2206.76,"endTime":2213.09,"body":"But it's sort of inched up, you know, 2 to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2206.76,"endTime":2213.09,"body":"3 percent in value sort of every quarter."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2213.13,"endTime":2216.53,"body":"And that's just because as the more"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2213.13,"endTime":2216.53,"body":"demand comes in, you need to start"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2216.53,"endTime":2220.53,"body":"buying higher and higher up the price"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2216.53,"endTime":2220.53,"body":"curve on the carbon carbon assets."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2221.05,"endTime":2223.7000000000003,"body":"Effectively, you gotta you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2221.05,"endTime":2223.7000000000003,"body":"gotta go from panning them."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2223.71,"endTime":2227.915,"body":"Yeah, You know, take the gold analogy, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2223.71,"endTime":2227.915,"body":"know, you initially you buy all the cheap"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2227.925,"endTime":2229.795,"body":"gold that, you know, that's being banned."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2229.795,"endTime":2232.6150000000002,"body":"And then eventually you've got"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2229.795,"endTime":2232.6150000000002,"body":"to go into open groove mines and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2232.925,"endTime":2235.065,"body":"deeper and deeper to, to get there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2235.065,"endTime":2239.155,"body":"And that puts it on an upward"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2235.065,"endTime":2239.155,"body":"curve, but we definitely don't"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2239.185,"endTime":2240.995,"body":"want it to be, to be volatile."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2241.386,"endTime":2241.826,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2242.156,"endTime":2245.976,"body":"So what's the price of one"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2242.156,"endTime":2245.976,"body":"Toco today in Euro or dollar?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2247.425,"endTime":2249.69,"body":"It's about 29 euros a ton."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2249.936,"endTime":2250.366,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2250.896,"endTime":2251.5660000000003,"body":"That sounds low."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2252.2400000000002,"endTime":2254.77,"body":"Yeah, it is, it is low,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2252.2400000000002,"endTime":2254.77,"body":"but I mean, the voluntary carbon, the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2254.77,"endTime":2259.15,"body":"voluntary carbon market prices is, this"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2254.77,"endTime":2259.15,"body":"is the, this is the point that we're"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2259.15,"endTime":2262.7400000000002,"body":"trying to, trying to make is that the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2259.15,"endTime":2262.7400000000002,"body":"voluntary carbon market pricing where"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2262.7400000000002,"endTime":2267.4,"body":"the mitigation activities are taking"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2262.7400000000002,"endTime":2267.4,"body":"place is terribly, I mean, priced."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2267.4,"endTime":2272.545,"body":"I mean, you can buy stuff out there"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2267.4,"endTime":2272.545,"body":"for $3, $4 because, because at the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2272.545,"endTime":2276.8250000000003,"body":"moment, this is the whole point at"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2272.545,"endTime":2276.8250000000003,"body":"the moment, the only demand is based"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2276.8250000000003,"endTime":2278.695,"body":"off an ethical consideration, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2279.085,"endTime":2284.815,"body":"So it creates this dynamic where of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2279.085,"endTime":2284.815,"body":"a race to the bottom, every, every"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2284.815,"endTime":2286.585,"body":"corporate out there wants to report."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2287.415,"endTime":2288.3450000000003,"body":"Net Zero goals."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2288.3450000000003,"endTime":2293.025,"body":"I mean, they can say it as much as they"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2288.3450000000003,"endTime":2293.025,"body":"like, but you know, at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2293.025,"endTime":2297.1150000000002,"body":"day, once, once, once you've gotten into"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2293.025,"endTime":2297.1150000000002,"body":"various boardrooms, and accountings, and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2297.145,"endTime":2301.635,"body":"the CFO and all the decisions have been"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2297.145,"endTime":2301.635,"body":"made, the market is set up at the moment"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2301.635,"endTime":2305.645,"body":"to, to support kind of greenwashing and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2301.635,"endTime":2305.645,"body":"just buying the lowest poorest quality"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2305.645,"endTime":2308.265,"body":"credits that, that you, that you can find."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2308.41,"endTime":2312.297,"body":"And that's what we're trying to fix by"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2308.41,"endTime":2312.297,"body":"creating a significant source of demand"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2312.297,"endTime":2318.5370000000003,"body":"so that we can move, the carbon price from"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2312.297,"endTime":2318.5370000000003,"body":"the 30 euros per tonne now to probably"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2318.5370000000003,"endTime":2323.1710000000003,"body":"about 150 euros a tonne that it should"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2318.5370000000003,"endTime":2323.1710000000003,"body":"be, that should really support the kind of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2323.1710000000003,"endTime":2329.55,"body":"mitigation investments that we need to to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2323.1710000000003,"endTime":2329.55,"body":"decarbonize at decarbonize at, at scale."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2329.8,"endTime":2333.39,"body":"But you know, to do that, we first"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2329.8,"endTime":2333.39,"body":"need to get people to demand,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2333.77,"endTime":2336.39,"body":"to demand to use the currency."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2336.75,"endTime":2340.2200000000003,"body":"And once that demand starts"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2336.75,"endTime":2340.2200000000003,"body":"outstripping the supply, then you'd"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2340.2200000000003,"endTime":2343.4,"body":"be able to transmit that, that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2340.2200000000003,"endTime":2343.4,"body":"price signal into the carbon market."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2343.556,"endTime":2344.176,"body":"Sure, sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2344.696,"endTime":2352.856,"body":"I mean, if I go today and buy 10 Toco,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2344.696,"endTime":2352.856,"body":"€290, that, that, that's great for you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2352.856,"endTime":2354.526,"body":"That's great for me."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2354.806,"endTime":2357.386,"body":"It's great for taking 10"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2354.806,"endTime":2357.386,"body":"tonnes out of the system."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2358.236,"endTime":2365.356,"body":"But to scale it, the reserve needs to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2358.236,"endTime":2365.356,"body":"be buying it at a much higher level."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2366.2960000000003,"endTime":2372.306,"body":"Many, many, many more thousands and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2366.2960000000003,"endTime":2372.306,"body":"eventually billions of tonnes per year."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2373.476,"endTime":2377.866,"body":"Where apart from the likes of me,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2373.476,"endTime":2377.866,"body":"is that money going to come from,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2377.866,"endTime":2381.656,"body":"or has that money come from to date"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2377.866,"endTime":2381.656,"body":"to, to buy the amount of carbon"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2381.656,"endTime":2382.866,"body":"that the reserve has to date?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2385.06,"endTime":2389.315,"body":"The scaling, the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2385.06,"endTime":2389.315,"body":"scaling of putting you and your"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2389.315,"endTime":2392.805,"body":"neighbor and everybody in your"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2389.315,"endTime":2392.805,"body":"community together is incredible."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2394.005,"endTime":2397.025,"body":"If, and I, let me do"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2394.005,"endTime":2397.025,"body":"the mental sum for you."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2398.245,"endTime":2403.8,"body":"If you were, if every European right"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2398.245,"endTime":2403.8,"body":"today that is gainfully employed,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2404.98,"endTime":2410.98,"body":"bought just one cup of coffee with"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2404.98,"endTime":2410.98,"body":"a currency backed in carbon that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2410.98,"endTime":2415.02,"body":"would generate $30 billion in demand."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2415.02,"endTime":2418.25,"body":"That is 15 times the size"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2415.02,"endTime":2418.25,"body":"of the carbon market today."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2420.04,"endTime":2423.38,"body":"That's just the coffee because"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2420.04,"endTime":2423.38,"body":"that's the money that would need to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2423.39,"endTime":2428.57,"body":"be in circulation to, to support,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2423.39,"endTime":2428.57,"body":"to support that, that transaction."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2429.15,"endTime":2433.36,"body":"And If you extend that, if you extend"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2429.15,"endTime":2433.36,"body":"that now, and you said, if you can"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2433.39,"endTime":2442.51,"body":"get the like G20 countries population"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2433.39,"endTime":2442.51,"body":"working population to do somewhere"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2442.51,"endTime":2446.15,"body":"between seven and 10 percent of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2442.51,"endTime":2446.15,"body":"their disposable income in a currency"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2446.15,"endTime":2451.76,"body":"based on, on carbon, then we generate"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2446.15,"endTime":2451.76,"body":"enough demand to take all of it out."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2453.81,"endTime":2454.77,"body":"That's how possible it is."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2454.771,"endTime":2457.26,"body":"It's truly it is truly just imagine."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2457.27,"endTime":2458.3,"body":"It's truly the solution."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2458.3,"endTime":2462.92,"body":"It means you have to do you have the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2458.3,"endTime":2462.92,"body":"only friction that's that's there in your"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2462.92,"endTime":2468.53,"body":"life is to wake up every morning and to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2462.92,"endTime":2468.53,"body":"buy your coffee with a currency based in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2468.53,"endTime":2473.2200000000003,"body":"carbon and maybe pay for your dinner once"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2468.53,"endTime":2473.2200000000003,"body":"a week for a currency based in carbon."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2473.2200000000003,"endTime":2478.33,"body":"And if you and everybody else like you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2473.2200000000003,"endTime":2478.33,"body":"does that we generate more than enough"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2478.33,"endTime":2483.359,"body":"demand that we need to take the carbon"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2478.33,"endTime":2483.359,"body":"out according to the IPCCs pathway."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2487.449,"endTime":2487.879,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2488.359,"endTime":2491.409,"body":"And Paul, talk to me about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2488.359,"endTime":2491.409,"body":"implementation in Switzerland."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2492.069,"endTime":2494.109,"body":"Yeah, Tom,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2492.069,"endTime":2494.109,"body":"I'll, I'll certainly will."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2494.139,"endTime":2498.089,"body":"I just wanted to quickly mention the proof"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2494.139,"endTime":2498.089,"body":"of concept that we ran in Stellenbosch."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2498.459,"endTime":2503.759,"body":"Because often when people hear the"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2498.459,"endTime":2503.759,"body":"concept first for the first time,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2504.129,"endTime":2505.784,"body":"it's kind of, you know, Intangible."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2505.794,"endTime":2506.944,"body":"It's an intangible thought."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2507.294,"endTime":2511.404,"body":"And our first motive for testing"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2507.294,"endTime":2511.404,"body":"in Stellenbosch was to test that"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2511.8740000000003,"endTime":2515.674,"body":"we could get past regulation and"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2511.8740000000003,"endTime":2515.674,"body":"we could create a transactional"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2515.704,"endTime":2520.174,"body":"currency that you could go and buy"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2515.704,"endTime":2520.174,"body":"your daily transactional activities."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2520.224,"endTime":2521.684,"body":"And you could use Toco for those."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2522.204,"endTime":2524.674,"body":"The second was to test the technology."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2524.674,"endTime":2528.399,"body":"So will the technology that we had"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2524.674,"endTime":2528.399,"body":"built, the DLT technology, the app"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2528.399,"endTime":2530.454,"body":"on the phone, will that all work?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2530.774,"endTime":2533.259,"body":"And thirdly will will merchants accept it?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2533.259,"endTime":2534.789,"body":"And will users adopt it?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2534.839,"endTime":2539.129,"body":"And will we be able to create"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2534.839,"endTime":2539.129,"body":"this ecosystem based on  carbon?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2539.719,"endTime":2544.259,"body":"And, and we managed to successfully"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2539.719,"endTime":2544.259,"body":"complete all of those tests."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2544.379,"endTime":2546.819,"body":"And the response was, was"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2544.379,"endTime":2546.819,"body":"really quite phenomenal."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2547.009,"endTime":2551.149,"body":"We had Stellenbosch is a relatively"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2547.009,"endTime":2551.149,"body":"small town in a global context."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2551.199,"endTime":2552.339,"body":"It's a small university town."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2552.339,"endTime":2555.492,"body":"And as Joe said, it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2552.339,"endTime":2555.492,"body":"on my back, back door there."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2555.782,"endTime":2561.362,"body":"And we had roughly 45 percent of"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2555.782,"endTime":2561.362,"body":"the merchants in Stellenbosch in"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2561.362,"endTime":2563.372,"body":"seven months agreed to accept Toco."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2563.882,"endTime":2568.457,"body":"We, as a, as a Toco community"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2563.882,"endTime":2568.457,"body":"used to essentially live our"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2568.457,"endTime":2570.857,"body":"transactional daily lives using Toco."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2570.877,"endTime":2571.927,"body":"We used to do our shopping."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2572.567,"endTime":2579.237,"body":"We used to buy coffee, have lunch,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2572.567,"endTime":2579.237,"body":"we could go out and have beers,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2579.277,"endTime":2582.677,"body":"wine, even nightclubs were accepting"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2579.277,"endTime":2582.677,"body":"Toco, get your hair cut, buy clothes,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2582.717,"endTime":2584.0170000000003,"body":"jewelry, et cetera, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2584.437,"endTime":2587.077,"body":"And the effect was,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2584.437,"endTime":2587.077,"body":"was, was quite amazing."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2587.177,"endTime":2592.317,"body":"We saw that we added a few merchants to"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2587.177,"endTime":2592.317,"body":"start and that attracted a lot of users."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2592.327,"endTime":2595.947,"body":"So we saw a spike in, in users, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2592.327,"endTime":2595.947,"body":"then it attracted a second wave of"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2595.977,"endTime":2597.957,"body":"merchants and then a second wave of users."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2598.0570000000002,"endTime":2603.707,"body":"And each time that became broader and more"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2598.0570000000002,"endTime":2603.707,"body":"diverse in terms of who joined, who joined"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2603.707,"endTime":2610.1620000000003,"body":"Toco the initial kind of early adopters"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2603.707,"endTime":2610.1620000000003,"body":"really scrutinized the concept, really"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2610.442,"endTime":2616.052,"body":"understood the, you know, how the Toco is"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2610.442,"endTime":2616.052,"body":"created, the trustworthiness of the, of"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2616.052,"endTime":2617.862,"body":"the credits that are the underlying asset."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2618.342,"endTime":2623.627,"body":"And once those early adopters started"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2618.342,"endTime":2623.627,"body":"using in habitual way we saw a lot"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2623.657,"endTime":2625.567,"body":"more of the users come on board."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2625.627,"endTime":2630.177,"body":"So much so that towards the end, we were"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2625.627,"endTime":2630.177,"body":"signing, you know, 500, you know, a couple"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2630.177,"endTime":2634.077,"body":"of thousand people a day downloading"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2630.177,"endTime":2634.077,"body":"the app and, and, and using it."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2634.447,"endTime":2638.157,"body":"The interesting thing was that users"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2634.447,"endTime":2638.157,"body":"started to change their buying habits."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2638.407,"endTime":2644.1820000000002,"body":"And they started to, once they understood"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2638.407,"endTime":2644.1820000000002,"body":"the, I guess the positivity and the"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2644.192,"endTime":2648.192,"body":"benefit of spending with Toco, they used"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2644.192,"endTime":2648.192,"body":"to seek out merchants that accepted Toco"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2648.542,"endTime":2652.612,"body":"and kind of, they used to go for their,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2648.542,"endTime":2652.612,"body":"their morning coffee and buy the morning"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2652.612,"endTime":2654.082,"body":"coffee using Toco and feel good about it."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2654.1420000000003,"endTime":2657.652,"body":"You know, walk away sipping their"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2654.1420000000003,"endTime":2657.652,"body":"coffee saying, you know, this was the"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2657.652,"endTime":2661.592,"body":"equivalent of a hundred kilograms of"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2657.652,"endTime":2661.592,"body":"carbon that I'd just created demand for"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2661.592,"endTime":2663.782,"body":"as a result of me, buying this coffee."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2664.232,"endTime":2667.512,"body":"And, and, and that created"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2664.232,"endTime":2667.512,"body":"obviously the demand for merchants."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2667.572,"endTime":2669.692,"body":"We saw merchants accept the currency."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2669.692,"endTime":2673.757,"body":"And in the beginning they would they would"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2669.692,"endTime":2673.757,"body":"off ramp, they would convert back into"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2673.757,"endTime":2676.087,"body":"fiat currency which is, which was obvious."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2676.087,"endTime":2679.967,"body":"We expected that because there's risk"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2676.087,"endTime":2679.967,"body":"in holding a currency that's new."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2680.357,"endTime":2683.657,"body":"But as time went by, merchants"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2680.357,"endTime":2683.657,"body":"started holding the currency more"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2683.917,"endTime":2685.417,"body":"and for longer periods of time."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2685.717,"endTime":2687.937,"body":"And then they also started"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2685.717,"endTime":2687.937,"body":"to use the currency."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2688.007,"endTime":2690.487,"body":"So they started to pay some"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2688.007,"endTime":2690.487,"body":"of their staff using Toco."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2690.507,"endTime":2691.727,"body":"They started to pay their suppliers."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2692.227,"endTime":2695.347,"body":"We had a couple of landlords in town"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2692.227,"endTime":2695.347,"body":"that were accepting rent in Toco."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2695.367,"endTime":2697.447,"body":"In fact our, our landlord."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2697.677,"endTime":2701.357,"body":"I'll never forget when we paid our"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2697.677,"endTime":2701.357,"body":"rent in Toco, it was, I worked it out."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2701.357,"endTime":2705.467,"body":"It was the equivalent of 20 years"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2701.357,"endTime":2705.467,"body":"of my personal carbon footprint"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2705.5170000000003,"endTime":2707.167,"body":"as an average South African."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2708.0370000000003,"endTime":2709.207,"body":"20 years."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2709.257,"endTime":2713.097,"body":"And that was just one, one transaction"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2709.257,"endTime":2713.097,"body":"of about, I think it was the equivalent"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2713.097,"endTime":2716.227,"body":"of about 50, 000 Rand or 250 odd Toco."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2716.637,"endTime":2722.867,"body":"So, at the end of the project we"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2716.637,"endTime":2722.867,"body":"realized that we are sitting on a very"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2722.867,"endTime":2728.947,"body":"tangible solution, and once we can"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2722.867,"endTime":2728.947,"body":"get past the adoption challenge, the"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2729.327,"endTime":2730.707,"body":"technology worked incredibly well."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2730.717,"endTime":2734.997,"body":"We can navigate the the regulation"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2730.717,"endTime":2734.997,"body":"and the regulatory landscape per"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2734.997,"endTime":2736.587,"body":"jurisdiction that we launch in."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2737.0570000000002,"endTime":2741.2870000000003,"body":"And almost, the bigger challenge was to"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2737.0570000000002,"endTime":2741.2870000000003,"body":"create a network effect in communities"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2741.2870000000003,"endTime":2746.097,"body":"around the world where communities are"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2741.2870000000003,"endTime":2746.097,"body":"demanding it, merchants are accepting it."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2746.567,"endTime":2748.077,"body":"The currency has utility."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2748.3070000000002,"endTime":2750.937,"body":"And people are going about"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2748.3070000000002,"endTime":2750.937,"body":"living their, their daily lives"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2750.977,"endTime":2752.377,"body":"as they did in Stellenbosch."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2752.697,"endTime":2754.417,"body":"But now the question"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2752.697,"endTime":2754.417,"body":"is how do we scale it?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2754.5170000000003,"endTime":2756.582,"body":"So with that back context."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2756.922,"endTime":2760.802,"body":"I'll answer your question of"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2756.922,"endTime":2760.802,"body":"what am I doing in Switzerland?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2760.852,"endTime":2765.4320000000002,"body":"So, we decided that we're going"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2760.852,"endTime":2765.4320000000002,"body":"to launch in two places in Europe."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2765.522,"endTime":2769.702,"body":"The first is Switzerland and"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2765.522,"endTime":2769.702,"body":"specifically in some of the Alpine towns."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2769.872,"endTime":2773.512,"body":"So I'm currently sitting in a"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2769.872,"endTime":2773.512,"body":"in a small skiing, predominantly"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2773.512,"endTime":2775.1620000000003,"body":"skiing village called Saas-Fee."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2775.612,"endTime":2778.712,"body":"It sits under the Fee Glacier"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2775.612,"endTime":2778.712,"body":"in the kind of the Saas tile."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2778.772,"endTime":2781.552,"body":"It's quite near Zermatt"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2778.772,"endTime":2781.552,"body":"in the Valais region."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2781.762,"endTime":2787.067,"body":"And Switzerland has a few attributes"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2781.762,"endTime":2787.067,"body":"that's that obviously drew us to choose"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2787.067,"endTime":2788.647,"body":"Switzerland as the initial rollout."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2789.2670000000003,"endTime":2793.317,"body":"Their community and municipal structures"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2789.2670000000003,"endTime":2793.317,"body":"are run very efficiently and we"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2793.317,"endTime":2796.717,"body":"are working with those communities"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2793.317,"endTime":2796.717,"body":"and the cantonal structures to"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2796.717,"endTime":2798.367,"body":"bring Toco to these communities."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2799.147,"endTime":2803.967,"body":"Obviously being on the extremes of climate"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2799.147,"endTime":2803.967,"body":"you know, sitting under a glacier that has"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2803.967,"endTime":2807.337,"body":"been melting for for the past 100 years."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2807.7690000000002,"endTime":2811.2490000000003,"body":"And we heard the other day that"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2807.7690000000002,"endTime":2811.2490000000003,"body":"it's melting at 80 meters per year"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2811.879,"endTime":2817.4990000000003,"body":"brings climate change very, very"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2811.879,"endTime":2817.4990000000003,"body":"close to your daily existence."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2817.529,"endTime":2820.739,"body":"When a lot of people who live in"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2817.529,"endTime":2820.739,"body":"cities around the world think,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2820.759,"endTime":2823.549,"body":"oh, it's getting warmer, you know,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2820.759,"endTime":2823.549,"body":"what's, what's, what's the problem?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2823.579,"endTime":2824.939,"body":"Is climate really changing?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2825.109,"endTime":2826.099,"body":"But here you can see it."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2826.449,"endTime":2831.719,"body":"And Joe, Joe and I have come here quite"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2826.449,"endTime":2831.719,"body":"a lot and you can actually see it year"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2831.719,"endTime":2836.349,"body":"on year the change in the effect of,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2831.719,"endTime":2836.349,"body":"of what the change in climate is doing."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2836.789,"endTime":2840.7690000000002,"body":"And there's a third reason that I won't"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2836.789,"endTime":2840.7690000000002,"body":"elaborate too much on, but safe to"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2840.7690000000002,"endTime":2844.169,"body":"say that it's, it's based in economic"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2840.7690000000002,"endTime":2844.169,"body":"principles and the tragedy of the"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2844.179,"endTime":2848.179,"body":"commons and the story of Eleanor Ostrom,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2844.179,"endTime":2848.179,"body":"which is a story for another day."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2848.609,"endTime":2854.4990000000003,"body":"But we will be, the other the other"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2848.609,"endTime":2854.4990000000003,"body":"location where we are starting Toco is"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2854.529,"endTime":2858.929,"body":"Copenhagen, and that's going to be a"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2854.529,"endTime":2858.929,"body":"much different approach where we'll go"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2858.969,"endTime":2864.309,"body":"for like broad based kind of grassroots"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2858.969,"endTime":2864.309,"body":"broader community launch and not such"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2864.549,"endTime":2866.349,"body":"focus on such smaller communities."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2868.794,"endTime":2873.084,"body":"Later this week, we will be we'll"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2868.794,"endTime":2873.084,"body":"have our first merchant that is"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2873.084,"endTime":2874.8740000000003,"body":"accepting Toco in Switzerland."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2874.934,"endTime":2880.064,"body":"It'll be a coffee shop in Saas Fee and"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2874.934,"endTime":2880.064,"body":"it'll be the first demonstratable case"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2880.084,"endTime":2882.574,"body":"where you can use carbon as money."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2883.054,"endTime":2886.454,"body":"And then we will work to gain the"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2883.054,"endTime":2886.454,"body":"support of the community and the other"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2886.454,"endTime":2890.064,"body":"merchants in this small community so"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2886.454,"endTime":2890.064,"body":"that we can then use it as an example"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2890.084,"endTime":2894.154,"body":"to the surrounding communities and the"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2890.084,"endTime":2894.154,"body":"Canton, which we're meeting next week"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2894.504,"endTime":2897.324,"body":"on what the potential of of this is."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2897.864,"endTime":2902.724,"body":"And then looking towards Copenhagen in"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2897.864,"endTime":2902.724,"body":"April, early April, we launch there."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2903.364,"endTime":2907.524,"body":"And then later the year will be"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2903.364,"endTime":2907.524,"body":"we are aiming to be live in all"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2907.524,"endTime":2909.064,"body":"European countries around the world."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2909.3740000000003,"endTime":2913.664,"body":"And to also bring our technology up"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2909.3740000000003,"endTime":2913.664,"body":"to the point where we can facilitate"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2913.664,"endTime":2918.214,"body":"a lot of this scale through the app"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2913.664,"endTime":2918.214,"body":"and through through technology and"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2918.214,"endTime":2920.884,"body":"not such kind of hands on approach."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2921.1440000000002,"endTime":2924.514,"body":"But we think that the hands"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2921.1440000000002,"endTime":2924.514,"body":"on approach works, especially"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2924.534,"endTime":2925.904,"body":"at the beginning of the story."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":2926.8540000000003,"endTime":2927.464,"body":"So I hope that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2927.524,"endTime":2927.974,"body":"You need it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2927.974,"endTime":2928.714,"body":"Yeah, we need to."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2929.134,"endTime":2933.674,"body":"We are using Switzerland as opposed to,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2929.134,"endTime":2933.674,"body":"I guess, you know, create a European, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2933.674,"endTime":2937.474,"body":"know, European example of Stellenbosch,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2933.674,"endTime":2937.474,"body":"where you have one or two communities"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2937.614,"endTime":2939.714,"body":"that are now using it on a regular basis."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2939.784,"endTime":2942.224,"body":"And it, you know, serves"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2939.784,"endTime":2942.224,"body":"as a social proof."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2942.684,"endTime":2945.534,"body":"Yeah, social proof for the rest"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2942.684,"endTime":2945.534,"body":"of the rest of the country."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2946.054,"endTime":2950.584,"body":"And I think if we can get, you know, if we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2946.054,"endTime":2950.584,"body":"can get fairly meaningful utility out of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2950.594,"endTime":2955.444,"body":"the currency in a place like Switzerland"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2950.594,"endTime":2955.444,"body":"and and then Denmark, where it's a fairly"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2955.444,"endTime":2958.534,"body":"small country, so it's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2955.444,"endTime":2958.534,"body":"easier to get the network effect there"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2958.944,"endTime":2963.804,"body":"earlier then we can, we can use those"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2958.944,"endTime":2963.804,"body":"two models as, you know, as examples"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2963.864,"endTime":2968.674,"body":"for for the rest of the world to say,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2963.864,"endTime":2968.674,"body":"listen the infrastructure is out there."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2968.684,"endTime":2969.464,"body":"It's easy to get."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2969.504,"endTime":2970.744,"body":"Go and organize yourselves."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2970.784,"endTime":2971.114,"body":"Come."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2971.514,"endTime":2975.664,"body":"Let's join, join this movement, start"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2971.514,"endTime":2975.664,"body":"demanding to pay in carbon, get your"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2975.664,"endTime":2979.444,"body":"local merchants that live in your"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2975.664,"endTime":2979.444,"body":"community, get your neighbors, get all"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2979.444,"endTime":2983.174,"body":"of them to start doing this because"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2979.444,"endTime":2983.174,"body":"it will, it leads to a good thing."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2983.684,"endTime":2989.274,"body":"It is a, and if we can get, I think if"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2983.684,"endTime":2989.274,"body":"we can get enough action like that then"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2989.274,"endTime":2994.759,"body":"maybe just Tom, we get ourselves into"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2989.274,"endTime":2994.759,"body":"the position where the ECB or the Federal"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2994.759,"endTime":2999.259,"body":"Reserve of the States, you know, actually"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2994.759,"endTime":2999.259,"body":"take notice and like, we can't have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2999.259,"endTime":3003.799,"body":"these private currencies come and, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":2999.259,"endTime":3003.799,"body":"know, eat our lunch in our, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3003.809,"endTime":3006.059,"body":"our fiat currency dominated landscape."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3006.419,"endTime":3010.2290000000003,"body":"We should step in here and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3006.419,"endTime":3010.2290000000003,"body":"also start backing our currency"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3010.2290000000003,"endTime":3011.849,"body":"with with climate action."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3012.189,"endTime":3015.9990000000003,"body":"And if we if we can get that done,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3012.189,"endTime":3015.9990000000003,"body":"I think that's a hell of a victory."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3016.179,"endTime":3020.649,"body":"So that's sort of I think our,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3016.179,"endTime":3020.649,"body":"you know, our approach is like"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3020.649,"endTime":3024.2490000000003,"body":"we're, you know, we're a nonprofit"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3020.649,"endTime":3024.2490000000003,"body":"sort of driven organization."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3024.4790000000003,"endTime":3026.569,"body":"We know people want to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3024.4790000000003,"endTime":3026.569,"body":"take climate action."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3026.919,"endTime":3028.819,"body":"We're saying there's a"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3026.919,"endTime":3028.819,"body":"way for you to do that."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3030.214,"endTime":3033.214,"body":"Start buying this currency"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3030.214,"endTime":3033.214,"body":"that allows you to do that."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3033.574,"endTime":3035.934,"body":"The second way to do that is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3033.574,"endTime":3035.934,"body":"start convincing the merchants in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3035.934,"endTime":3038.164,"body":"your area to start accepting it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3038.194,"endTime":3041.424,"body":"And let's community for community."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3041.814,"endTime":3044.344,"body":"Where we trust each other and we can"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3041.814,"endTime":3044.344,"body":"look each other in the eye and say,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3044.344,"endTime":3045.884,"body":"look, I believe this is important."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3045.904,"endTime":3047.1040000000003,"body":"You believe this is important."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3047.344,"endTime":3050.844,"body":"So let's just put our money, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3047.344,"endTime":3050.844,"body":"let's put our money where our mouths are"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3052.034,"endTime":3053.804,"body":"and that should be behind decarbonization."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3054.209,"endTime":3054.649,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3055.319,"endTime":3059.259,"body":"Paul, I'm interested because you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3055.319,"endTime":3059.259,"body":"there when you were explaining the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3059.259,"endTime":3064.329,"body":"Stellenbosch and the Swiss ones, you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3059.259,"endTime":3064.329,"body":"mentioned the benefits to the users."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3064.709,"endTime":3071.469,"body":"So if I'm a user, I've got my Toco wallet"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3064.709,"endTime":3071.469,"body":"and I've bought Toco using fiat currency."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3071.989,"endTime":3078.799,"body":"Is the benefit to me solely that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3071.989,"endTime":3078.799,"body":"I am reducing the amount of carbon"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3078.799,"endTime":3081.549,"body":"in the atmosphere or I'm giving"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3078.799,"endTime":3081.549,"body":"a demand signal, is that the only"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3081.549,"endTime":3084.239,"body":"benefit or are there other benefits"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3081.549,"endTime":3084.239,"body":"that I haven't picked up on?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3086.764,"endTime":3089.094,"body":"Primarily,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3086.764,"endTime":3089.094,"body":"that is that is the benefit."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3089.194,"endTime":3091.6240000000003,"body":"We often say internally that"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3089.194,"endTime":3091.6240000000003,"body":"the world probably doesn't need"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3091.6240000000003,"endTime":3094.584,"body":"another currency, but they need"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3091.6240000000003,"endTime":3094.584,"body":"a solution to climate change."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3094.934,"endTime":3098.924,"body":"And there are more than"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3094.934,"endTime":3098.924,"body":"we originally thought."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3098.934,"endTime":3103.534,"body":"There is a huge amount of frustration"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3098.934,"endTime":3103.534,"body":"among people around the world that they"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3103.534,"endTime":3107.964,"body":"see headlines, they get depressed, they"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3103.534,"endTime":3107.964,"body":"can't contribute in a meaningful way."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3108.254,"endTime":3109.834,"body":"They've probably recycled for 10 years."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3109.834,"endTime":3113.364,"body":"And then they read a, an article"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3109.834,"endTime":3113.364,"body":"about how only 10 percent of the"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3113.364,"endTime":3115.384,"body":"recycled plastic is actually useful."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3115.594,"endTime":3121.014,"body":"It's just this, this constant"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3115.594,"endTime":3121.014,"body":"kind of fear and loss of hope and"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3121.434,"endTime":3123.6240000000003,"body":"feeling of, of sheer helplessness."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3124.094,"endTime":3127.154,"body":"And what we saw in Stellenbosch with"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3124.094,"endTime":3127.154,"body":"our users is once they understand"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3127.154,"endTime":3128.034,"body":"the good that they're doing."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3128.634,"endTime":3133.804,"body":"And and let's take individuals carbon"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3128.634,"endTime":3133.804,"body":"footprint out for a second, because that's"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3133.834,"endTime":3137.1440000000002,"body":"not necessarily a meaningful measure,"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3133.834,"endTime":3137.1440000000002,"body":"but some people use it as a meaningful"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3137.1440000000002,"endTime":3144.044,"body":"measure, and it's just the fact of your"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3137.1440000000002,"endTime":3144.044,"body":"daily transactions having this meaningful"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3144.054,"endTime":3150.074,"body":"impact of removing tons of carbon as"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3144.054,"endTime":3150.074,"body":"you continue to spend in a sustained way"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3150.584,"endTime":3154.434,"body":"creates, I don't know what the chemical"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3150.584,"endTime":3154.434,"body":"process in the brain is, but it creates"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3154.434,"endTime":3156.454,"body":"an immense amount of positive energy."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3156.764,"endTime":3160.254,"body":"And I honestly, I, and I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3156.764,"endTime":3160.254,"body":"speaking out of personal experience."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3160.264,"endTime":3164.634,"body":"I used to use all of my daily"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3160.264,"endTime":3164.634,"body":"transactions in Stellenbosch in Toco."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3164.8540000000003,"endTime":3169.084,"body":"And it's, it really is a phenomenal"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3164.8540000000003,"endTime":3169.084,"body":"feeling when you look at your"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3169.1040000000003,"endTime":3170.424,"body":"impact at the end of a week."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3170.714,"endTime":3173.3740000000003,"body":"And you've removed, you"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3170.714,"endTime":3173.3740000000003,"body":"know, 10, 20 tons of carbon."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3173.3740000000003,"endTime":3176.7490000000003,"body":"And I know that as a South"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3173.3740000000003,"endTime":3176.7490000000003,"body":"African, my carbon footprint was"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3176.7490000000003,"endTime":3178.789,"body":"maybe 15 tons on the high end."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3179.239,"endTime":3182.659,"body":"So every week I'm removing a year's"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3179.239,"endTime":3182.659,"body":"worth of my carbon footprint, which"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3183.239,"endTime":3184.219,"body":"it's powerful."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3184.809,"endTime":3187.579,"body":"We had people in Cape"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3184.809,"endTime":3187.579,"body":"Town, which is about 40 kilometers from"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3187.579,"endTime":3192.029,"body":"Stellenbosch, and they, they'd make"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3187.579,"endTime":3192.029,"body":"weekend entertainment decisions to go to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3192.029,"endTime":3196.2490000000003,"body":"Stellenbosch, and to rather go there where"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3192.029,"endTime":3196.2490000000003,"body":"they could spend in, you know, spend,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3196.419,"endTime":3201.469,"body":"spend in carbon and, you know, at least"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3196.419,"endTime":3201.469,"body":"feel that, that you, you're contributing."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3201.819,"endTime":3204.5190000000002,"body":"I think, yeah, so for the consumer,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3201.819,"endTime":3204.5190000000002,"body":"because, you know, money is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3204.5190000000002,"endTime":3207.869,"body":"money, and  it's hard to give,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3204.5190000000002,"endTime":3207.869,"body":"especially when you're a nonprofit."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3208.289,"endTime":3213.049,"body":"It's hard to give some kind of financial,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3208.289,"endTime":3213.049,"body":"you know, financial or other award."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3213.059,"endTime":3215.639,"body":"The rewards are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3213.059,"endTime":3215.639,"body":"just this ability that you can,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3215.7490000000003,"endTime":3218.9990000000003,"body":"you can have a massive impact"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3215.7490000000003,"endTime":3218.9990000000003,"body":"without costing you anything."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3219.529,"endTime":3222.829,"body":"I think for the, for the businesses"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3219.529,"endTime":3222.829,"body":"though and the corporates the Toco is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3222.829,"endTime":3225.469,"body":"going to have potential massive upsides."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3225.609,"endTime":3229.199,"body":"Once it becomes a little bit"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3225.609,"endTime":3229.199,"body":"more established and because what"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3229.2290000000003,"endTime":3232.314,"body":"you are doing is you're making"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3229.2290000000003,"endTime":3232.314,"body":"carbon mitigation fungible."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3232.804,"endTime":3237.344,"body":"So these businesses that do want to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3232.804,"endTime":3237.344,"body":"retire you know, want to retire assets,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3237.554,"endTime":3242.574,"body":"they either need to now have large"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3237.554,"endTime":3242.574,"body":"departments that need to understand"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3242.594,"endTime":3247.064,"body":"every single purchase and then they've"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3242.594,"endTime":3247.064,"body":"got exposure on, on, you know, every"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3247.1040000000003,"endTime":3250.284,"body":"single asset that, you know, every"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3247.1040000000003,"endTime":3250.284,"body":"single asset that, that they buy."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3250.784,"endTime":3253.814,"body":"Where, you know, the carbon reserve,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3250.784,"endTime":3253.814,"body":"I think the Toco is well positioned"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3254.064,"endTime":3257.834,"body":"to to sort of be mitigation as"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3254.064,"endTime":3257.834,"body":"a service, or I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3257.834,"endTime":3258.884,"body":"call it offsetting as a service."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3258.884,"endTime":3260.634,"body":"I don't like the term offsetting."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3261.074,"endTime":3266.684,"body":"But for them, it's useful because,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3261.074,"endTime":3266.684,"body":"yes, the risks for them is lowered"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3266.684,"endTime":3268.1240000000003,"body":"because of the portfolio effect."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3268.654,"endTime":3272.184,"body":"They also just have to ensure that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3268.654,"endTime":3272.184,"body":"there's one there's one counterparty"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3272.184,"endTime":3273.6040000000003,"body":"risk that they need to deal with."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3273.969,"endTime":3277.609,"body":"In terms of the, you know, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3273.969,"endTime":3277.609,"body":"the Carbon Reserve, who has no profit"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3277.609,"endTime":3281.689,"body":"incentive and acts independently and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3277.609,"endTime":3281.689,"body":"has entirely an environmental mandate."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3281.829,"endTime":3284.489,"body":"So that's a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3281.829,"endTime":3284.489,"body":"bells and braces braces for them."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3284.789,"endTime":3287.029,"body":"And then, yeah, they've"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3284.789,"endTime":3287.029,"body":"got this fungible unit."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3287.039,"endTime":3288.049,"body":"That's not just fungible."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3288.049,"endTime":3290.159,"body":"It's also it's also liquid."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3290.609,"endTime":3294.872,"body":"So it's possible for them, to put their"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3290.609,"endTime":3294.872,"body":"if you think about carbon accounting"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3294.872,"endTime":3298.342,"body":"and that going that going forward,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3294.872,"endTime":3298.342,"body":"the Toco, because it's a currency,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3298.342,"endTime":3302.512,"body":"and it's also underlying mitigation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3298.342,"endTime":3302.512,"body":"asset, very easy to book that onto your"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3302.522,"endTime":3306.842,"body":"balance sheet as say, this is how much"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3302.522,"endTime":3306.842,"body":"potential carbon retirements I now have."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3307.232,"endTime":3309.372,"body":"These are my, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3307.232,"endTime":3309.372,"body":"these are my liabilities."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3309.372,"endTime":3313.592,"body":"And you can make the whole neutrality"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3309.372,"endTime":3313.592,"body":"planning, you know, as part of the part"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3313.592,"endTime":3317.492,"body":"of the financial process and have a"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3313.592,"endTime":3317.492,"body":"very low friction way of of gaining that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3317.502,"endTime":3322.592,"body":"and then even better, is once you have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3317.502,"endTime":3322.592,"body":"enough consumers actually using it, they"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3322.592,"endTime":3326.882,"body":"can start earning their mitigation from"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3322.592,"endTime":3326.882,"body":"their consumers because just to start"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3326.882,"endTime":3331.909,"body":"accepting the Toco, in currency and, and,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3326.882,"endTime":3331.909,"body":"and that allows them to build two things."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3331.909,"endTime":3336.179,"body":"I think, you know, they can, they can very"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3331.909,"endTime":3336.179,"body":"successfully transmit their sustainability"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3336.179,"endTime":3339.859,"body":"credentials to the market, but they also"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3336.179,"endTime":3339.859,"body":"build a very deep connection with their"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3339.879,"endTime":3344.009,"body":"consumer because if the consumer is using"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3339.879,"endTime":3344.009,"body":"the Toco, it means that the consumer has"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3344.579,"endTime":3346.799,"body":"belief that the Toco represents a ton."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3347.554,"endTime":3352.504,"body":"And therefore, if the corporate or the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3347.554,"endTime":3352.504,"body":"business is using the Toco to for its"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3352.504,"endTime":3357.434,"body":"retirement, you know, for its retirement"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3352.504,"endTime":3357.434,"body":"needs then there shouldn't be this"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3357.434,"endTime":3361.504,"body":"problem around greenwashing because"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3357.434,"endTime":3361.504,"body":"you've got this nonprofit independent"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3361.504,"endTime":3367.534,"body":"Carbon Reserve, you know, being the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3361.504,"endTime":3367.534,"body":"arbitrage of quality between between the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3367.534,"endTime":3369.774,"body":"consumer's view and the corporate's view."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3369.814,"endTime":3373.5170000000003,"body":"So we think there's a, there's a whole"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3369.814,"endTime":3373.5170000000003,"body":"host of benefits once it gets to a"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3373.5170000000003,"endTime":3377.447,"body":"certain level of size that is really"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3373.5170000000003,"endTime":3377.447,"body":"useful for for corporates as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3377.562,"endTime":3378.022,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3378.032,"endTime":3383.672,"body":"And how long do you see it going from"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3378.032,"endTime":3383.672,"body":"where it is today to it being the size"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3383.6820000000002,"endTime":3385.402,"body":"where it is really useful for corporates?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3386.28,"endTime":3389.83,"body":"Look, I think that,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3386.28,"endTime":3389.83,"body":"I think if we can get, if like"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3389.85,"endTime":3393.594,"body":"Paul said, we're launching now in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3389.85,"endTime":3393.594,"body":"Switzerland and then, into Denmark"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3393.594,"endTime":3394.8940000000002,"body":"and then into the rest of the world."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3395.484,"endTime":3398.994,"body":"I think if you look at the sort"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3395.484,"endTime":3398.994,"body":"of exponential growth that we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3398.994,"endTime":3401.404,"body":"had in in Stellenbosch, right?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3401.404,"endTime":3405.3540000000003,"body":"And I know it's, you know, I know"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3401.404,"endTime":3405.3540000000003,"body":"it's a fairly, fairly small market."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3405.3540000000003,"endTime":3409.564,"body":"But, you know, as Paul said there, I"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3405.3540000000003,"endTime":3409.564,"body":"mean, you know, we were doubling, we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3409.564,"endTime":3411.214,"body":"were doubling signups every month."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3411.619,"endTime":3414.739,"body":"To a point where we were signing,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3411.619,"endTime":3414.739,"body":"you know, literally thousands of"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3414.739,"endTime":3416.949,"body":"people towards the towards the end."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3417.559,"endTime":3421.399,"body":"So I think we're quite confident"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3417.559,"endTime":3421.399,"body":"that if you use, if you have that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3421.419,"endTime":3426.799,"body":"growth, same kind of growth profile"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3421.419,"endTime":3426.799,"body":"that within the next three years,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3426.799,"endTime":3429.759,"body":"we can become  fairly significant."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3430.089,"endTime":3435.709,"body":"And if not fairly significant"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3430.089,"endTime":3435.709,"body":"and probably the biggest buyer in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3435.719,"endTime":3437.429,"body":"the carbon in the carbon market."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3437.4990000000003,"endTime":3443.579,"body":"Because you don't actually need, as I"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3437.4990000000003,"endTime":3443.579,"body":"illustrated with my cup of coffee, because"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3443.579,"endTime":3447.879,"body":"of the way that the carbon mitigation here"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3443.579,"endTime":3447.879,"body":"is used as a, you know, as a transactional"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3447.909,"endTime":3454.134,"body":"thing you know, if you can get up to,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3447.909,"endTime":3454.134,"body":"you know, even 400, 500,000 people just"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3454.134,"endTime":3458.964,"body":"using it habitually every day in a couple"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3454.134,"endTime":3458.964,"body":"of, you know, disconnected communities"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3458.964,"endTime":3463.484,"body":"you're moving billions of dollars"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3458.964,"endTime":3463.484,"body":"towards the towards the carbon market."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3463.484,"endTime":3466.494,"body":"And I think at that point,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3463.484,"endTime":3466.494,"body":"you'll be in range of, you'll"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3466.504,"endTime":3467.6440000000002,"body":"be in range of corporates."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3468.054,"endTime":3471.934,"body":"We are also, interestingly enough, we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3468.054,"endTime":3471.934,"body":"are in various discussion with various"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3471.934,"endTime":3476.564,"body":"sort of large retailers, at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3471.934,"endTime":3476.564,"body":"because they see the, they see the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3476.574,"endTime":3482.404,"body":"benefit of having a intermediary here,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3476.574,"endTime":3482.404,"body":"you know, making, making it more, more"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3482.404,"endTime":3486.234,"body":"fungible and they, and the retailers"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3482.404,"endTime":3486.234,"body":"also, especially like what we're"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3486.234,"endTime":3489.6040000000003,"body":"finding with some of the retailers in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3486.234,"endTime":3489.6040000000003,"body":"Europe, which is really encouraging is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3489.6040000000003,"endTime":3495.544,"body":"that they're not just looking to make"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3489.6040000000003,"endTime":3495.544,"body":"themselves Net Zero, some of the parties"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3495.544,"endTime":3498.954,"body":"that we're talking about are trying to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3495.544,"endTime":3498.954,"body":"figure out how they can use their base"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3499.619,"endTime":3503.889,"body":"and their customer base to leverage"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3499.619,"endTime":3503.889,"body":"and create impact and drive impact."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3503.889,"endTime":3505.959,"body":"So not, let's just look at myself."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3506.039,"endTime":3510.659,"body":"It's how do I use, how do I use my,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3506.039,"endTime":3510.659,"body":"my consumer base to actually make"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3510.659,"endTime":3515.109,"body":"more impact beyond myself as, as the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3510.659,"endTime":3515.109,"body":"corporate citizen, which is a, for us"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3515.109,"endTime":3518.889,"body":"as South Africans is a very heartening"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3515.109,"endTime":3518.889,"body":"conversation to hear that this is"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3518.889,"endTime":3520.419,"body":"what they're, they're thinking of."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3520.5190000000002,"endTime":3523.359,"body":"And and those parties that we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3520.5190000000002,"endTime":3523.359,"body":"are in discussion with definitely"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3523.359,"endTime":3526.9990000000003,"body":"looking at the Toco and going, well,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3523.359,"endTime":3526.9990000000003,"body":"this is very, very interesting."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3527.009,"endTime":3529.719,"body":"They, you know, the way that they"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3527.009,"endTime":3529.719,"body":"think about it is like, can't"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3529.719,"endTime":3531.089,"body":"I use this as my reward scheme."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3531.539,"endTime":3536.419,"body":"So instead of giving points or things"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3531.539,"endTime":3536.419,"body":"like that, why don't I reward people"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3536.419,"endTime":3540.679,"body":"in carbon mitigation and then they"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3536.419,"endTime":3540.679,"body":"can reuse that carbon mitigation, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3540.679,"endTime":3542.959,"body":"know, with me and with me in store."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3542.959,"endTime":3546.319,"body":"And then, I mean, if you just look"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3542.959,"endTime":3546.319,"body":"at the amount of reward points that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3546.319,"endTime":3549.329,"body":"are out there in the world today,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3546.319,"endTime":3549.329,"body":"if you just converted every air"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3549.329,"endTime":3552.009,"body":"mile into a carbon mitigation mile."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3552.694,"endTime":3554.954,"body":"That's not that's another 30x the market."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3555.634,"endTime":3560.174,"body":"We just really just have to reimagine"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3555.634,"endTime":3560.174,"body":"that carbon mitigation is not this"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3560.884,"endTime":3565.524,"body":"thing of cost that we have to go"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3560.884,"endTime":3565.524,"body":"and, you know, pay so we can put"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3565.524,"endTime":3567.054,"body":"some lipstick on the pig here."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3567.384,"endTime":3572.481,"body":"We've got to go think of it as an actual"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3567.384,"endTime":3572.481,"body":"store of value, which it should be because"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3572.611,"endTime":3578.689,"body":"our future, and our ability and our,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3572.611,"endTime":3578.689,"body":"for our civilization to thrive is value"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3579.159,"endTime":3583.739,"body":"and it's intricately tied to, to, to the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3579.159,"endTime":3583.739,"body":"removal of carbon, carbon mitigation."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3583.7690000000002,"endTime":3587.629,"body":"So, so yeah, no, I think, I think"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3583.7690000000002,"endTime":3587.629,"body":"to, to answer your, your question,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3587.629,"endTime":3590.739,"body":"if we plod along here within two"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3587.629,"endTime":3590.739,"body":"years, I think we become significant"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3590.739,"endTime":3594.049,"body":"enough that we start attracting some,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3590.739,"endTime":3594.049,"body":"some larger corporates, which would"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3594.049,"endTime":3595.459,"body":"be a major injection of liquidity."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3596.199,"endTime":3598.399,"body":"And, and then you never,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3596.199,"endTime":3598.399,"body":"you know, you never know."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3598.399,"endTime":3604.579,"body":"I mean, we, we might just have a Damascus"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3598.399,"endTime":3604.579,"body":"moment where Yeah, Elon tweets something"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3604.579,"endTime":3607.759,"body":"and, and \"This is a great currency,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3604.579,"endTime":3607.759,"body":"everybody should get behind it\"."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3607.759,"endTime":3612.339,"body":"I mean, if he's, if he's prepared to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3607.759,"endTime":3612.339,"body":"accept Dogecoin surely you'll be prepared"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3612.389,"endTime":3616.049,"body":"to accept, you know, you know, a coin"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3612.389,"endTime":3616.049,"body":"in carbon based on carbon mitigation."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3616.329,"endTime":3620.319,"body":"Maybe you can even earn some, some"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3616.329,"endTime":3620.319,"body":"tokens by driving an electric car."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3620.379,"endTime":3620.7690000000002,"body":"Who knows?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3620.7690000000002,"endTime":3624.7690000000002,"body":"But you know, if that, if that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3620.7690000000002,"endTime":3624.7690000000002,"body":"happens, that's, you know, obviously"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3624.7690000000002,"endTime":3630.259,"body":"I think what any sort of dual sided"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3624.7690000000002,"endTime":3630.259,"body":"network kind of play is looking for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3630.2690000000002,"endTime":3634.329,"body":"and, and so our approach is going"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3630.2690000000002,"endTime":3634.329,"body":"to be like, you know, like a band."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3634.339,"endTime":3638.279,"body":"We'll, we'll play all the dingy,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3634.339,"endTime":3638.279,"body":"we'll play all the dingy bars and,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3638.469,"endTime":3640.719,"body":"and places and hopefully at some"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3638.469,"endTime":3640.719,"body":"point you're an overnight success."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3640.964,"endTime":3644.384,"body":"Nice, nice, and you, I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3640.964,"endTime":3644.384,"body":"mean, you were talking about talking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3644.384,"endTime":3649.1040000000003,"body":"to retailers, but the example you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3644.384,"endTime":3649.1040000000003,"body":"used was air miles, and it strikes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3649.1040000000003,"endTime":3653.884,"body":"me that the airlines would be an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3649.1040000000003,"endTime":3653.884,"body":"even more, or should be an even more"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3653.904,"endTime":3657.3940000000002,"body":"interested party, given the difficulty"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3653.904,"endTime":3657.3940000000002,"body":"they're having in decarbonizing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3657.734,"endTime":3659.524,"body":"Is that a conversation you're having?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3661.364,"endTime":3663.824,"body":"It's not a conversation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3661.364,"endTime":3663.824,"body":"that we're having at the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3663.824,"endTime":3667.574,"body":"at the moment that it's, and that's,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3663.824,"endTime":3667.574,"body":"but it's definitely a conversation"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3667.574,"endTime":3669.194,"body":"that we, that we want to have."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3669.254,"endTime":3672.194,"body":"The challenge there is just"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3669.254,"endTime":3672.194,"body":"always access and legitimacy."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3672.194,"endTime":3672.404,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3672.464,"endTime":3678.064,"body":"And, and we're, like I said, we"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3672.464,"endTime":3678.064,"body":"know we've, we're both serial sort"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3678.064,"endTime":3682.524,"body":"of tech investors and entrepreneurs"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3678.064,"endTime":3682.524,"body":"over the last two to three decades."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3682.784,"endTime":3683.474,"body":"And, Right."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3683.944,"endTime":3687.814,"body":"I think our approach has always been"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3683.944,"endTime":3687.814,"body":"is don't go sell people an idea."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3687.814,"endTime":3690.444,"body":"Go sell people something that"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3687.814,"endTime":3690.444,"body":"you demonstrated is working."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3690.764,"endTime":3695.554,"body":"And so if we can get, I think those"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3690.764,"endTime":3695.554,"body":"conversations are just much easier to have"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3695.574,"endTime":3701.314,"body":"if we've got, you know, 50,000 50,000, or"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3695.574,"endTime":3701.314,"body":"100,000 people in Switzerland using it,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3701.324,"endTime":3704.9790000000003,"body":"then, you know, then you can go and say,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3701.324,"endTime":3704.9790000000003,"body":"okay, right Swissair, let's have a chat."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3705.359,"endTime":3709.849,"body":"Whereas now, I think you struggle to be"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3705.359,"endTime":3709.849,"body":"probably struggle to get into the door"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3709.849,"endTime":3714.0190000000002,"body":"and to be taken to be taken seriously,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3709.849,"endTime":3714.0190000000002,"body":"especially with a concept such as"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3714.049,"endTime":3720.119,"body":"this, which requires, as I said in the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3714.049,"endTime":3720.119,"body":"beginning, I think some mental dexterity"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3720.129,"endTime":3721.699,"body":"to get your to get your head around."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3721.8740000000003,"endTime":3722.934,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3723.054,"endTime":3723.484,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3723.664,"endTime":3724.094,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3724.904,"endTime":3727.204,"body":"We are coming to the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3724.904,"endTime":3727.204,"body":"end of the podcast now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3727.204,"endTime":3730.054,"body":"In fact, we were coming to the end of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3727.204,"endTime":3730.054,"body":"the podcast about 20 minutes ago, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3731.934,"endTime":3733.174,"body":"the conversation is so interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3733.174,"endTime":3734.084,"body":"I couldn't, I couldn't stop."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3734.084,"endTime":3737.3740000000003,"body":"So we are now coming towards"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3734.084,"endTime":3737.3740000000003,"body":"the end of the podcast, finally."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3737.8540000000003,"endTime":3742.564,"body":"Is there any question I haven't asked that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3737.8540000000003,"endTime":3742.564,"body":"you wish I had or any aspect of this we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3742.564,"endTime":3745.274,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3742.564,"endTime":3745.274,"body":"important for people to be aware of?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3747.118,"endTime":3750.518,"body":"No, I just I just You"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3747.118,"endTime":3750.518,"body":"know, no, just just to reiterate that."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3750.5480000000002,"endTime":3753.078,"body":"Look, if you're in, if you're in"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3750.5480000000002,"endTime":3753.078,"body":"Switzerland and you're listening to"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3753.078,"endTime":3757.228,"body":"this, download the Tocos app from"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3753.078,"endTime":3757.228,"body":"the Apple store or the Google store."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3757.248,"endTime":3758.618,"body":"Start buying your first Tocos."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3758.638,"endTime":3763.0480000000002,"body":"Yes, we don't have a dense big merchant"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3758.638,"endTime":3763.0480000000002,"body":"network there there yet, but walk"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3763.0480000000002,"endTime":3766.608,"body":"down the street to your local coffee"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3763.0480000000002,"endTime":3766.608,"body":"shop and talk to them about it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3766.628,"endTime":3769.888,"body":"See if they can download the app"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3766.628,"endTime":3769.888,"body":"and start start accepting it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3770.198,"endTime":3772.818,"body":"If you're in Denmark and watch"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3770.198,"endTime":3772.818,"body":"out for us, we'll be there"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3772.818,"endTime":3775.088,"body":"in April and and do the same."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3775.563,"endTime":3778.733,"body":"If you're listening to this, you"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3775.563,"endTime":3778.733,"body":"want to bring Toco to your country"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3778.733,"endTime":3781.103,"body":"because we're not regulated there yet."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3781.1530000000002,"endTime":3782.753,"body":"Please go to the carbonismoney."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3782.783,"endTime":3787.713,"body":"org website and register your name there"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3782.783,"endTime":3787.713,"body":"and we'll be in, we'll be in touch."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3787.713,"endTime":3791.453,"body":"We're looking for we have the"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3787.713,"endTime":3791.453,"body":"solution, we can change the world."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3791.793,"endTime":3794.003,"body":"We now just need people"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3791.793,"endTime":3794.003,"body":"to, to help us do it."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3794.223,"endTime":3797.753,"body":"So if you're out there and you're willing"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3794.223,"endTime":3797.753,"body":"to help us please go to carbonismoney."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3797.783,"endTime":3800.703,"body":"org and, and tell us about"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3797.783,"endTime":3800.703,"body":"yourself and we'll be in touch."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3800.733,"endTime":3803.103,"body":"I think that's the only,"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3800.733,"endTime":3803.103,"body":"only thing I wanted to add."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3803.473,"endTime":3803.773,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3803.773,"endTime":3804.933,"body":"Paul, did you want to say something?"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3807.558,"endTime":3808.748,"body":"No, I think Joe said it."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3808.868,"endTime":3812.588,"body":"I think we, we do have the solution"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3808.868,"endTime":3812.588,"body":"and we can do it if we work"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3812.588,"endTime":3814.388,"body":"together as one global community."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3814.608,"endTime":3817.378,"body":"So, yeah, but Joe said that all."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3817.438,"endTime":3821.018,"body":"We are publishing a story where you"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3817.438,"endTime":3821.018,"body":"can follow our, follow our story about"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3821.018,"endTime":3822.5480000000002,"body":"bringing Carbon Is Money to the world."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3822.948,"endTime":3827.848,"body":"So go to YouTube and subscribe to our"},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3822.948,"endTime":3827.848,"body":"channel and you can get access to that."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3828.0080000000003,"endTime":3829.328,"body":"But thanks very much for having us, Tom."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3829.703,"endTime":3830.143,"body":"sure, sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3830.143,"endTime":3830.533,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3830.823,"endTime":3835.213,"body":"My final question is generally, if people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3830.823,"endTime":3835.213,"body":"want to know more about yourselves or any"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3835.213,"endTime":3837.933,"body":"of the things we discussed on the podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3835.213,"endTime":3837.933,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3838.233,"endTime":3839.753,"body":"You've already mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3838.233,"endTime":3839.753,"body":"the YouTube channel."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3839.753,"endTime":3842.083,"body":"I'll link to that in the show"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3839.753,"endTime":3842.083,"body":"notes and the carbonismoney."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3842.523,"endTime":3843.1730000000002,"body":"org website."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3843.913,"endTime":3845.583,"body":"Anything else I should highlight?"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3846.113,"endTime":3846.943,"body":"I think just, yes."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3846.983,"endTime":3852.523,"body":"Just search for the, the Tocos app"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3846.983,"endTime":3852.523,"body":"at the two app stores, the Google"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3852.523,"endTime":3854.543,"body":"app store and the Apple app store."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3854.993,"endTime":3855.263,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3855.9030000000002,"endTime":3856.533,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3856.9030000000002,"endTime":3858.343,"body":"That's been really interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3858.733,"endTime":3862.613,"body":"Joe, Paul, thanks a million for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3858.733,"endTime":3862.613,"body":"coming on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3863.4030000000002,"endTime":3866.873,"body":"Thank you very much for"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3863.4030000000002,"endTime":3866.873,"body":"having us and listening to our story and"},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3866.873,"endTime":3868.613,"body":"for asking such insightful questions."},{"speaker":"Joe Pretorius","startTime":3868.643,"endTime":3869.053,"body":"Thanks Tom."},{"speaker":"Paul Rowett","startTime":3870.098,"endTime":3870.588,"body":"Thank you, Tom."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3871.734,"endTime":3873.6040000000003,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3871.734,"endTime":3873.6040000000003,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3874.324,"endTime":3875.434,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3876.294,"endTime":3880.444,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3876.294,"endTime":3880.444,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3880.454,"endTime":3884.364,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3884.614,"endTime":3888.094,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3888.664,"endTime":3892.404,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3888.664,"endTime":3892.404,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3892.424,"endTime":3896.904,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3892.424,"endTime":3896.904,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3897.534,"endTime":3900.494,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3897.534,"endTime":3900.494,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3900.694,"endTime":3903.224,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3900.694,"endTime":3903.224,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3904.314,"endTime":3904.764,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":3905.434,"endTime":3906.3540000000003,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}