{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":3.633,"endTime":4.843,"body":"People"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":3.633,"endTime":4.843,"body":"are going to be unhoused."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":4.893,"endTime":6.203,"body":"People are going to be displaced."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":6.423,"endTime":9.593,"body":"The seas will rise and the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":6.423,"endTime":9.593,"body":"storms will have an effect."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":9.603,"endTime":12.063,"body":"There'll be many people who"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":9.603,"endTime":12.063,"body":"won't have insurance anymore."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":12.373,"endTime":15.243,"body":"They're all going to need support"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":12.373,"endTime":15.243,"body":"and we need to be prepared to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":15.243,"endTime":19.383,"body":"support them because as we know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":15.243,"endTime":19.383,"body":"nobody else is coming to save us."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":19.403,"endTime":20.273,"body":"It's all up to us."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":20.483,"endTime":22.553,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":20.483,"endTime":22.553,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":22.563,"endTime":24.063,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":24.383,"endTime":28.113,"body":"This is the Climate Confident"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":24.383,"endTime":28.113,"body":"podcast, the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":28.253,"endTime":32.023,"body":"showcasing best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":28.253,"endTime":32.023,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":32.453,"endTime":34.393,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.553,"endTime":38.313,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.553,"endTime":38.313,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":38.473,"endTime":40.833,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":41.723,"endTime":42.263,"body":"Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.293,"endTime":45.413,"body":"Welcome to episode 170 of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.293,"endTime":45.413,"body":"climate confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.953,"endTime":47.393,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":47.393,"endTime":50.123,"body":"And before we kick off today's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":47.393,"endTime":50.123,"body":"show, I want to take a moment to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":50.123,"endTime":54.323,"body":"express my gratitude to all of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":50.123,"endTime":54.323,"body":"this podcast's amazing supporters."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":54.803,"endTime":57.653,"body":"Your support has been instrumental"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":54.803,"endTime":57.653,"body":"in keeping this podcast going."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":58.253,"endTime":60.593,"body":"And I'm really grateful for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":58.253,"endTime":60.593,"body":"each and every one of you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.443,"endTime":65.523,"body":"In today's episode of the podcast, I'm"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.443,"endTime":65.523,"body":"talking to professor Dana R Fisher."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":66.123,"endTime":68.703,"body":"The researcher who coined the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":66.123,"endTime":68.703,"body":"term apocalyptic optimism."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.003,"endTime":70.443,"body":"It's going to be a fascinating episode."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":70.773,"endTime":74.283,"body":"And coming up in future episodes,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":70.773,"endTime":74.283,"body":"I'll be talking to Robin Salukis From"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":74.283,"endTime":78.543,"body":"eAgronom , I'll be talking to Tucker"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":74.283,"endTime":78.543,"body":"Perkins from the propane research"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":78.543,"endTime":81.273,"body":"council and I'll be talking to Siemens."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":81.303,"endTime":83.583,"body":"So some greater episodes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":81.303,"endTime":83.583,"body":"coming up as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":84.44,"endTime":85.37,"body":"Before we kick off."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":85.73,"endTime":86.93,"body":"A quick question for you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":87.593,"endTime":91.703,"body":"Part of today's episode will include"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":87.593,"endTime":91.703,"body":"conversations around climate activism."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":92.243,"endTime":95.573,"body":"And so I would like to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":92.243,"endTime":95.573,"body":"ask you this question."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":97.193,"endTime":103.643,"body":"Do you agree with some of the tactics"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":97.193,"endTime":103.643,"body":"of climate activists, doing things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":103.643,"endTime":109.823,"body":"like throwing soup at paintings,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":103.643,"endTime":109.823,"body":"walking slowly on roads blocking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":109.823,"endTime":116.987,"body":"traffic, protestors gluing themselves"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":109.823,"endTime":116.987,"body":"to doorways blocking doorways."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":117.677,"endTime":119.297,"body":"All of these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":117.677,"endTime":119.297,"body":"things that we've seen."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":120.347,"endTime":124.457,"body":"Are these tactics something you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":120.347,"endTime":124.457,"body":"agree with in the climate movement?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":125.957,"endTime":126.527,"body":"Let me know."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":126.857,"endTime":127.937,"body":"Send me a message."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":128.417,"endTime":131.417,"body":"In the show notes of this and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":128.417,"endTime":131.417,"body":"every episode of the podcast, you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":131.417,"endTime":133.937,"body":"find a, send me a message link."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":134.477,"endTime":135.197,"body":"Click on that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":135.317,"endTime":138.047,"body":"It'll open the messages"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":135.317,"endTime":138.047,"body":"application in your phone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":138.497,"endTime":140.807,"body":"The text messages application"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":138.497,"endTime":140.807,"body":"on your phone or your computer."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":141.317,"endTime":146.117,"body":"Let me know what you think about those"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":141.317,"endTime":146.117,"body":"kinds of tactics in the climate movement."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":147.317,"endTime":147.617,"body":"Anyway."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":149.177,"endTime":150.167,"body":"On with the show today."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":150.527,"endTime":151.667,"body":"With me on the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":151.667,"endTime":154.117,"body":"As I said, I have professor Dana Fisher."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":154.547,"endTime":156.507,"body":"Dana, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":156.507,"endTime":158.037,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":158.752,"endTime":159.882,"body":"Thanks for having me, Tom."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":159.882,"endTime":161.652,"body":"Yeah, I'd be happy to introduce myself."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":162.042,"endTime":162.742,"body":"I'm Dana R."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":162.742,"endTime":163.302,"body":"Fisher."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":163.372,"endTime":167.812,"body":"I am the director of the Center for"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":163.372,"endTime":167.812,"body":"Environment, Community and Equity, and a"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":167.812,"endTime":171.002,"body":"professor in the School of International"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":167.812,"endTime":171.002,"body":"Service at American University."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":171.472,"endTime":174.442,"body":"Most importantly, I think, for our"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":171.472,"endTime":174.442,"body":"conversation, I'm the author of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":174.442,"endTime":175.962,"body":"the new book, Saving Ourselves."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":176.302,"endTime":177.372,"body":"I'm pointing to it now."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":177.392,"endTime":180.772,"body":"From Climate Shocks to Climate Action,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":177.392,"endTime":180.772,"body":"which brings together research I"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":180.772,"endTime":185.192,"body":"have done on climate policymaking"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":180.772,"endTime":185.192,"body":"and activism over the past 25 years."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":185.722,"endTime":188.392,"body":"It's nice that it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":185.722,"endTime":188.392,"body":"conveniently over your shoulder there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":188.392,"endTime":190.312,"body":"That's a nice, happy"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":188.392,"endTime":190.312,"body":"coincidence I got to think."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":191.537,"endTime":192.387,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":192.387,"endTime":193.687,"body":"Completely coincidental."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":194.242,"endTime":194.812,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":195.232,"endTime":202.162,"body":"So tell me Dana, first of all, how did"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":195.232,"endTime":202.162,"body":"you or why did you get into this space?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":204.117,"endTime":207.107,"body":"Well, I mean, originally"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":204.117,"endTime":207.107,"body":"I got into this space of thinking"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":207.107,"endTime":209.077,"body":"about climate change in the 1990s."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":209.077,"endTime":210.597,"body":"So this was a long time ago."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":210.597,"endTime":215.107,"body":"It was before, it was before there was a"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":210.597,"endTime":215.107,"body":"thing that we called the climate crisis."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":215.167,"endTime":218.847,"body":"And most of the work that we were doing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":215.167,"endTime":218.847,"body":"was thinking about what we call the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":218.847,"endTime":223.027,"body":"precautionary principle, which was this"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":218.847,"endTime":223.027,"body":"idea that scientists said that we might"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":223.027,"endTime":227.942,"body":"be living in a warming world in the future"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":223.027,"endTime":227.942,"body":"and our climate system could get out of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":227.942,"endTime":232.802,"body":"whack because of increased concentrations"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":227.942,"endTime":232.802,"body":"of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":233.022,"endTime":235.662,"body":"so we should act in a precautionary way."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":235.702,"endTime":239.832,"body":"And a lot of the discussions back then"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":235.702,"endTime":239.832,"body":"were about concern for the polar bear."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":240.122,"endTime":240.372,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":240.372,"endTime":242.202,"body":"You may remember those those days."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":242.826,"endTime":246.812,"body":"So I originally got involved in"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":242.826,"endTime":246.812,"body":"it because I had worked in the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":246.812,"endTime":249.282,"body":"environmental world for a period of time."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":249.382,"endTime":252.212,"body":"I had gone back to graduate school"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":249.382,"endTime":252.212,"body":"and I really wanted to do something"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":252.212,"endTime":255.547,"body":"policy relevant, that asked some"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":252.212,"endTime":255.547,"body":"really interesting questions."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":255.567,"endTime":261.594,"body":"And at the time, even back in the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":255.567,"endTime":261.594,"body":"1990s, it was really clear that climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":261.594,"endTime":263.454,"body":"change was a tricky, tricky problem."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":263.894,"endTime":268.784,"body":"And it's tricky because it's not just"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":263.894,"endTime":268.784,"body":"about finding an alternative to one"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":268.784,"endTime":272.544,"body":"particular chemical, like was the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":268.784,"endTime":272.544,"body":"issue when we had to deal with ozone"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":272.544,"endTime":276.654,"body":"depletion and just replacing one chemical"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":272.544,"endTime":276.654,"body":"meant that the world would be okay."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":276.934,"endTime":280.654,"body":"This is a tricky problem in that,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":276.934,"endTime":280.654,"body":"greenhouse gases are produced by"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":280.654,"endTime":284.154,"body":"basically all combustion of fossil fuels."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":284.184,"endTime":289.214,"body":"And as a result, and since those are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":284.184,"endTime":289.214,"body":"what fuel most of the industrial world"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":289.224,"endTime":295.454,"body":"today, addressing them will mean changing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":289.224,"endTime":295.454,"body":"our individual lives, our professional"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":295.454,"endTime":299.414,"body":"lives, the way that industry works"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":295.454,"endTime":299.414,"body":"and the way that commerce happens."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":299.414,"endTime":301.344,"body":"And so it's a really tricky problem."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":301.354,"endTime":305.314,"body":"So it seemed like a really good place"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":301.354,"endTime":305.314,"body":"for the budding sociologist that I was"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":305.324,"endTime":306.974,"body":"at the time to start to ask questions."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":307.434,"endTime":308.864,"body":"That's why I got involved in it."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":309.209,"endTime":313.849,"body":"And I stayed involved in it because,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":309.209,"endTime":313.849,"body":"well, because it was really clear early"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":313.849,"endTime":317.809,"body":"on to me that we weren't doing what"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":313.849,"endTime":317.809,"body":"was needed to address the problem."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":317.829,"endTime":318.849,"body":"So things were going to get a lot"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":318.849,"endTime":319.299,"body":"worse."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":319.769,"endTime":324.029,"body":"And as I talk about in the new book, I've"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":319.769,"endTime":324.029,"body":"written so many papers about different"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":324.039,"endTime":326.389,"body":"failed policies at the national level."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":326.729,"endTime":328.189,"body":"You know, I studied the Kyoto protocol."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":328.189,"endTime":328.829,"body":"That was my first"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":328.829,"endTime":329.229,"body":"book."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":329.589,"endTime":331.159,"body":"I studied the Paris agreement."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":331.494,"endTime":334.194,"body":"I studied a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":331.494,"endTime":334.194,"body":"efforts that were voluntary."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":334.194,"endTime":339.244,"body":"I studied efforts that were regulatory"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":334.194,"endTime":339.244,"body":"and now I've been studying efforts that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":339.264,"endTime":343.534,"body":"are more carrots than sticks, which"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":339.264,"endTime":343.534,"body":"means using money to try to encourage"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":343.534,"endTime":347.064,"body":"a transition away from fossil fuels"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":343.534,"endTime":347.064,"body":"towards clean energy, renewable energies."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":347.554,"endTime":351.124,"body":"So it's been a really fruitful place"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":347.554,"endTime":351.124,"body":"for me professionally, but the reason"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":351.124,"endTime":355.524,"body":"I stayed in this world is because I"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":351.124,"endTime":355.524,"body":"really care and because the problem"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":355.524,"endTime":357.184,"body":"is trickier than it ever was before."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":357.214,"endTime":357.544,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":358.489,"endTime":361.949,"body":"And the stakes are higher because we"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":358.489,"endTime":361.949,"body":"are starting to see the effects of the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":361.949,"endTime":365.129,"body":"climate crisis, and it's upon us already,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":361.949,"endTime":365.129,"body":"and it's just going to get worse."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":365.339,"endTime":365.799,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":365.879,"endTime":372.879,"body":"And through all of those books and papers"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":365.879,"endTime":372.879,"body":"and studies which are the policies that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":372.879,"endTime":375.659,"body":"you think have had the greatest impact?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":377.939,"endTime":379.209,"body":"Ooh, well."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":379.829,"endTime":383.059,"body":"I mean, first of all, I think"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":379.829,"endTime":383.059,"body":"policies that have not been"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":383.069,"endTime":385.219,"body":"implemented have not had much of an"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":385.229,"endTime":385.649,"body":"impact."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":385.649,"endTime":389.009,"body":"I mean, we, you know, in the United"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":385.649,"endTime":389.009,"body":"States here, we've been what's the word?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":390.649,"endTime":394.919,"body":"In the United States, we have suffered"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":390.649,"endTime":394.919,"body":"from a number of battles to get"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":395.474,"endTime":399.074,"body":"Policies across the finish line and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":395.474,"endTime":399.074,"body":"the finish line, I define as being"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":399.289,"endTime":399.609,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":400.154,"endTime":404.694,"body":"We struggled through"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":400.154,"endTime":404.694,"body":"experiencing the delay in the clean power"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":404.694,"endTime":409.104,"body":"plan, which was the Obama administration's"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":404.694,"endTime":409.104,"body":"effort to address climate change when"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":409.104,"endTime":410.694,"body":"they couldn't get a policy through the U."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":410.694,"endTime":410.844,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":410.844,"endTime":413.284,"body":"Congress that then got"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":410.844,"endTime":413.284,"body":"stayed in the courts."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":413.284,"endTime":414.934,"body":"And then the Trump"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":413.284,"endTime":414.934,"body":"administration canceled."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":414.934,"endTime":419.944,"body":"So those are not ones that it's it's easy"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":414.934,"endTime":419.944,"body":"to think about celebrating in any way."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":419.944,"endTime":424.274,"body":"I guess what I would have to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":419.944,"endTime":424.274,"body":"say that, you know, I was most"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":424.274,"endTime":425.954,"body":"hopeful about the Paris agreement."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":426.004,"endTime":430.024,"body":"I'm less hopeful now about it because"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":426.004,"endTime":430.024,"body":"we are what many years down the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":430.024,"endTime":433.534,"body":"line here and it still has countries"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":430.024,"endTime":433.534,"body":"have still most of them have not"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":433.574,"endTime":435.944,"body":"yet met their initial commitments."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":436.354,"endTime":440.134,"body":"I'm very hopeful about the Inflation"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":436.354,"endTime":440.134,"body":"Reduction Act, which passed in the United"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":440.134,"endTime":444.944,"body":"States and was the Biden administration's"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":440.134,"endTime":444.944,"body":"effort to address climate change."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":444.944,"endTime":447.584,"body":"And it is the only effort that made"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":444.944,"endTime":447.584,"body":"it through both houses of the U."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":447.584,"endTime":447.704,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":447.704,"endTime":449.334,"body":"Congress and was signed by the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":449.334,"endTime":449.774,"body":"president."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":450.389,"endTime":454.369,"body":"and I think that there's a lot to be"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":450.389,"endTime":454.369,"body":"said for using carrots as in, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":454.369,"endTime":459.469,"body":"money to encourage a transition to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":454.369,"endTime":459.469,"body":"clean energy rather than sticks which"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":459.469,"endTime":462.999,"body":"is basically penalizing those who are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":459.469,"endTime":462.999,"body":"emitting fossil fuels, sorry, that are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":463.009,"endTime":464.899,"body":"burning fossil fuels and emitting carbon."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":465.289,"endTime":469.839,"body":"However, while we should celebrate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":465.289,"endTime":469.839,"body":"the successes there, these incremental"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":469.839,"endTime":473.719,"body":"policies are not sufficient to address"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":469.839,"endTime":473.719,"body":"the climate crisis at the level"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":473.719,"endTime":479.079,"body":"we need to Get us where we need to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":473.719,"endTime":479.079,"body":"go to to limit the climate crisis."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":479.089,"endTime":483.029,"body":"So much more is needed even though"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":479.089,"endTime":483.029,"body":"we can celebrate We should celebrate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":483.029,"endTime":484.699,"body":"for a moment and then we need to keep"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":484.699,"endTime":486.119,"body":"going and get back on the horse"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":487.104,"endTime":490.314,"body":"And how, I mean, the U."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":490.314,"endTime":490.454,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":490.464,"endTime":497.714,"body":"system is particularly, I want"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":490.464,"endTime":497.714,"body":"to say, challenged about climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":497.714,"endTime":500.614,"body":"amongst other things, but we'll stick"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":497.714,"endTime":500.614,"body":"with climate because that's, this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":500.614,"endTime":502.144,"body":"is the Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":503.514,"endTime":504.704,"body":"How do we fix that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":504.764,"endTime":506.734,"body":"Because it's so polarized."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":506.824,"endTime":510.404,"body":"And, I can't understand it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":510.594,"endTime":513.884,"body":"I, I can to an extent, but there's a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":510.594,"endTime":513.884,"body":"lot of money going into it, I think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":513.884,"endTime":515.134,"body":"is, is part of the big problem."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":515.134,"endTime":516.534,"body":"But how, how do we, how do we fix that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":516.534,"endTime":518.754,"body":"Is it fix campaign finance?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":518.754,"endTime":519.424,"body":"Would that do a lot?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":521.269,"endTime":523.259,"body":"Well, I mean I would"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":521.269,"endTime":523.259,"body":"just let me just start by saying that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":523.289,"endTime":525.209,"body":"absolutely the United States is unique."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":553.229,"endTime":557.479,"body":"The United States is you know, the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":553.229,"endTime":557.479,"body":"number one contributor to the climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":557.479,"endTime":561.979,"body":"crisis over the history of the world"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":557.479,"endTime":561.979,"body":"in that we have contributed the most"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":561.979,"endTime":563.6790000000001,"body":"carbon to the atmosphere of any country."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":563.6790000000001,"endTime":565.2890000000001,"body":"So we obviously need to be"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":565.2890000000001,"endTime":566.7890000000001,"body":"addressed, but I would just say that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":566.7890000000001,"endTime":567.3290000000001,"body":"a lot of,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":567.759,"endTime":568.6790000000001,"body":"Congrats on that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":570.109,"endTime":574.379,"body":"I feel so But, at the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":570.109,"endTime":574.379,"body":"same time I think that a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":574.379,"endTime":577.9590000000001,"body":"issues that we experience, and we"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":574.379,"endTime":577.9590000000001,"body":"observe here in the United States,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":577.969,"endTime":582.6690000000001,"body":"you can see in many other countries"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":577.969,"endTime":582.6690000000001,"body":"that are both geographically big."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":582.7990000000001,"endTime":589.089,"body":"So people use public transport to get"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":582.7990000000001,"endTime":589.089,"body":"places as well as have large endowments"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":589.109,"endTime":592.1890000000001,"body":"of fossil fuel resources in house."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":592.1990000000001,"endTime":595.519,"body":"So we see very similar things"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":592.1990000000001,"endTime":595.519,"body":"going on in terms of the flip"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":595.5290000000001,"endTime":598.4390000000001,"body":"flopping in Australia and in Canada."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":598.4590000000001,"endTime":601.859,"body":"So as much as the United States"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":598.4590000000001,"endTime":601.859,"body":"is unique, and we are very"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":601.859,"endTime":604.6890000000001,"body":"proud of that, there are lots of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":601.859,"endTime":604.6890000000001,"body":"similarities that are worth noting."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":604.9390000000001,"endTime":605.6890000000001,"body":"So that's number one."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":605.6890000000001,"endTime":609.9540000000001,"body":"Number two, to respond to your"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":605.6890000000001,"endTime":609.9540000000001,"body":"question about what we need to do."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":609.9540000000001,"endTime":614.0340000000001,"body":"I mean, I think that campaign finance"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":609.9540000000001,"endTime":614.0340000000001,"body":"is absolutely part of the issue."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":614.0540000000001,"endTime":618.264,"body":"I think that number one, pure and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":614.0540000000001,"endTime":618.264,"body":"simple, we need to take corporate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":618.264,"endTime":625.1740000000001,"body":"money out of the electoral process,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":618.264,"endTime":625.1740000000001,"body":"but we also need to stop fossil fuel"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":625.1740000000001,"endTime":630.8240000000001,"body":"interests from being able to continue to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":625.1740000000001,"endTime":630.8240000000001,"body":"capture or we need to limit fossil fuel"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":630.8340000000001,"endTime":633.3140000000001,"body":"interests, access to power and resources."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":633.504,"endTime":634.754,"body":"And that means one."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":635.104,"endTime":638.594,"body":"Fossil fuel interests and other"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":635.104,"endTime":638.594,"body":"economic actors should not be able"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":638.594,"endTime":642.094,"body":"to buy into the political system like"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":638.594,"endTime":642.094,"body":"they do now through campaign finance."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":642.494,"endTime":647.114,"body":"But two is that right now, fossil"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":642.494,"endTime":647.114,"body":"fuels, fossil fuel interests,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":647.134,"endTime":650.594,"body":"fossil fuel companies have"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":647.134,"endTime":650.594,"body":"privileged access to resources."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":650.624,"endTime":654.134,"body":"They get subsidized access"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":650.624,"endTime":654.134,"body":"to public lands to extract."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":654.134,"endTime":660.2040000000001,"body":"So they are basically extracting for"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":654.134,"endTime":660.2040000000001,"body":"a discounted rate and then they do not"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":660.2040000000001,"endTime":661.8040000000001,"body":"have to actually pay for their emissions."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":662.0540000000001,"endTime":663.839,"body":"So that has to stop."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":663.849,"endTime":665.399,"body":"I mean, that has to stop around the world."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":665.399,"endTime":669.609,"body":"It just, it shouldn't just be in the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":665.399,"endTime":669.609,"body":"United States, but those two steps in"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":669.609,"endTime":672.989,"body":"and of themselves, based on the research"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":669.609,"endTime":672.989,"body":"that's been done, and I'm talking about"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":672.989,"endTime":676.6890000000001,"body":"other people's research, not my own, but"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":672.989,"endTime":676.6890000000001,"body":"I build on these findings will have a"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":676.6990000000001,"endTime":681.759,"body":"huge effect on the way the policymaking"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":676.6990000000001,"endTime":681.759,"body":"process works, because even those"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":681.7990000000001,"endTime":685.839,"body":"people who say that they care about"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":681.7990000000001,"endTime":685.839,"body":"climate change when they run for office,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":686.379,"endTime":689.599,"body":"research shows that if they have taken"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":686.379,"endTime":689.599,"body":"funding from fossil fuel interests,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":689.999,"endTime":693.249,"body":"And many, many, you know, and we're"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":689.999,"endTime":693.249,"body":"not talking about just Republicans."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":693.249,"endTime":696.5590000000001,"body":"We're talking about Democrats too, in"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":693.249,"endTime":696.5590000000001,"body":"the United States, those who take money"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":696.5590000000001,"endTime":701.839,"body":"from fossil fuel interests are much"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":696.5590000000001,"endTime":701.839,"body":"more statistically more likely to vote"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":701.879,"endTime":705.5290000000001,"body":"on behalf of the fossil fuel interests"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":701.879,"endTime":705.5290000000001,"body":"rather than the climate pledges that they"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":705.5290000000001,"endTime":706.9290000000001,"body":"made when they were running for office."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":707.4190000000001,"endTime":711.489,"body":"So it's only those who actually commit"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":707.4190000000001,"endTime":711.489,"body":"to what we call a fossil free pledge."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":711.9190000000001,"endTime":714.7890000000001,"body":"And there are a bunch of groups that are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":711.9190000000001,"endTime":714.7890000000001,"body":"trying to get people running for office"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":714.7990000000001,"endTime":717.719,"body":"to take these pledges, to say they won't"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":714.7990000000001,"endTime":717.719,"body":"take money from fossil fuel interests."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":718.2040000000001,"endTime":720.484,"body":"It's only those people who"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":718.2040000000001,"endTime":720.484,"body":"follow through on their promises."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":720.494,"endTime":723.3240000000001,"body":"So we need to take fossil"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":720.494,"endTime":723.3240000000001,"body":"fuel money out of politics."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":723.754,"endTime":725.0640000000001,"body":"Yeah, we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":723.754,"endTime":725.0640000000001,"body":"won't mention Joe Manchin."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":725.464,"endTime":725.964,"body":"How,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":726.274,"endTime":728.3140000000001,"body":"No, we will not"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":726.274,"endTime":728.3140000000001,"body":"mention him, but you know, he"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":728.3140000000001,"endTime":731.114,"body":"obviously is sitting on my shoulder,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":728.3140000000001,"endTime":731.114,"body":"whispering things all the time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":732.224,"endTime":736.7840000000001,"body":"how likely is it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":732.224,"endTime":736.7840000000001,"body":"to get that fossil fuel free"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":736.8240000000001,"endTime":740.0310000000001,"body":"politician pledge  to be bipartisan?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":742.8810000000001,"endTime":743.9910000000001,"body":"Is that a very naive question?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":745.691,"endTime":747.801,"body":"it's not, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":745.691,"endTime":747.801,"body":"it's, it's an important question."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":747.801,"endTime":750.5110000000001,"body":"I mean, but the thing is at this"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":747.801,"endTime":750.5110000000001,"body":"point, given where the Republican"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":750.5110000000001,"endTime":755.471,"body":"party is, the Republican party has"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":750.5110000000001,"endTime":755.471,"body":"gone from being soft on climate."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":755.471,"endTime":755.6510000000001,"body":"To being"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":755.851,"endTime":756.9010000000001,"body":"Full on destroy the climate!"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":756.9010000000001,"endTime":760.2410000000001,"body":"I mean, I guess"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":756.9010000000001,"endTime":760.2410000000001,"body":"I would just say that I would"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":760.311,"endTime":761.601,"body":"say non existent on climate."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":761.601,"endTime":763.471,"body":"I mean, that's probably"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":761.601,"endTime":763.471,"body":"the nicest way I can"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":763.471,"endTime":763.8610000000001,"body":"say it."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":764.1410000000001,"endTime":769.101,"body":"At this point, the platform, the main"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":764.1410000000001,"endTime":769.101,"body":"Republican platform on climate change"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":769.1110000000001,"endTime":773.6510000000001,"body":"is one of misinformation and denial."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":773.6510000000001,"endTime":776.801,"body":"I mean, if we look at what"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":773.6510000000001,"endTime":776.801,"body":"you know, the Trump campaign."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":776.801,"endTime":780.341,"body":"So president Trump, who's running"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":776.801,"endTime":780.341,"body":"for office again, his campaign and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":780.341,"endTime":783.851,"body":"the platform that the Republicans are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":780.341,"endTime":783.851,"body":"pushing out right now is all about"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":783.8710000000001,"endTime":787.571,"body":"extracting more fossil fuels, which is"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":783.8710000000001,"endTime":787.571,"body":"the opposite of what every scientist"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":787.571,"endTime":792.0210000000001,"body":"around the world and the IPCC reports"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":787.571,"endTime":792.0210000000001,"body":"and the United Nations say is necessary."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":792.0210000000001,"endTime":797.301,"body":"So basically right now, the idea of there"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":792.0210000000001,"endTime":797.301,"body":"being a bipartisan agreement about getting"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":797.301,"endTime":801.3910000000001,"body":"fossil fuel money out of politics, it's"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":797.301,"endTime":801.3910000000001,"body":"not, it's not feasible to imagine here."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":801.716,"endTime":807.1260000000001,"body":"What I think provides opportunities"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":801.716,"endTime":807.1260000000001,"body":"for, you know, hope is that at"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":807.1260000000001,"endTime":811.4060000000001,"body":"the local level, we see much"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":807.1260000000001,"endTime":811.4060000000001,"body":"less polarization in our country."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":811.426,"endTime":817.0360000000001,"body":"And we also see much more opportunity"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":811.426,"endTime":817.0360000000001,"body":"for local elections, local elected"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":817.0360000000001,"endTime":820.326,"body":"officials to care about climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":817.0360000000001,"endTime":820.326,"body":"change, because that's where, you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":820.326,"endTime":821.3560000000001,"body":"know, the rubber hits the road."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":821.3560000000001,"endTime":825.1560000000001,"body":"That is where people are experiencing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":821.3560000000001,"endTime":825.1560000000001,"body":"the climate crisis because we are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":825.1560000000001,"endTime":830.1260000000001,"body":"seeing more climate shocks, coming more"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":825.1560000000001,"endTime":830.1260000000001,"body":"frequently and with more severity and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":830.1260000000001,"endTime":831.7460000000001,"body":"they're hitting all over our country."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":831.7460000000001,"endTime":833.7460000000001,"body":"They're hitting all over"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":831.7460000000001,"endTime":833.7460000000001,"body":"countries around the world."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":834.1160000000001,"endTime":839.226,"body":"And so people who are representing local"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":834.1160000000001,"endTime":839.226,"body":"governments and are trying to address"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":839.466,"endTime":843.7560000000001,"body":"and be prepared for issues having to do"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":839.466,"endTime":843.7560000000001,"body":"with severe flooding, severe heat, severe"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":843.7560000000001,"endTime":849.576,"body":"drought, wildfire, they are figuring out"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":843.7560000000001,"endTime":849.576,"body":"how to regulate and to lead in communities"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":849.576,"endTime":850.936,"body":"that are facing those challenges."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":851.086,"endTime":852.6460000000001,"body":"Oh, and then there's also sea level rise,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":852.7860000000001,"endTime":853.0360000000001,"body":"course."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":853.466,"endTime":856.926,"body":"Which, you know, is projected at"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":853.466,"endTime":856.926,"body":"this point to flood out the majority"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":856.926,"endTime":859.2460000000001,"body":"of the state of Florida by 2100."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":859.2560000000001,"endTime":863.4960000000001,"body":"So, you know, so even in states like"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":859.2560000000001,"endTime":863.4960000000001,"body":"Florida where there is no climate,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":863.556,"endTime":866.3660000000001,"body":"you know, you can't even say climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":863.556,"endTime":866.3660000000001,"body":"change in the legislature right now."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":866.7860000000001,"endTime":871.666,"body":"Local leaders are doing a lot to think"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":866.7860000000001,"endTime":871.666,"body":"about what to do about this problem"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":871.676,"endTime":876.2760000000001,"body":"because it is absolutely, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":871.676,"endTime":876.2760000000001,"body":"threatening the people in communities"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":876.2760000000001,"endTime":877.6460000000001,"body":"around the United States and around the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":877.9860000000001,"endTime":879.0060000000001,"body":"yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":879.436,"endTime":883.571,"body":"And, and it, There's another effect as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":879.436,"endTime":883.571,"body":"well, which is starting to be seen now,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":884.041,"endTime":888.3910000000001,"body":"and that is the effect of insurance"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":884.041,"endTime":888.3910000000001,"body":"companies getting out of dodge."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":888.441,"endTime":888.801,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":889.296,"endTime":890.176,"body":"Oh yeah, getting out of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":890.176,"endTime":890.686,"body":"Florida,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":890.8610000000001,"endTime":895.1110000000001,"body":"Florida, Louisiana"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":890.8610000000001,"endTime":895.1110000000001,"body":"Mississippi, Texas, even."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":895.666,"endTime":898.846,"body":"And so the ones that are left"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":895.666,"endTime":898.846,"body":"are pushing up their rates."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":898.8660000000001,"endTime":904.826,"body":"So I've seen cases of homeowners"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":898.8660000000001,"endTime":904.826,"body":"in Louisiana being quoted up to 8,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":904.8960000000001,"endTime":908.186,"body":"000 per annum for home insurance."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":908.6460000000001,"endTime":910.6560000000001,"body":"I mean, it's insane stuff."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":912.096,"endTime":912.7360000000001,"body":"It's insane."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":912.7360000000001,"endTime":915.426,"body":"I mean, what's really interesting"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":912.7360000000001,"endTime":915.426,"body":"about the way this process works, and I"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":915.426,"endTime":919.196,"body":"happen to have a bit of a firsthand hand"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":915.426,"endTime":919.196,"body":"experience with this because I owned"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":919.196,"endTime":922.826,"body":"a house on the Delaware River in New"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":919.196,"endTime":922.826,"body":"Jersey before I moved down here to the D."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":922.826,"endTime":923.086,"body":"C."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":923.086,"endTime":923.6360000000001,"body":"Area."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":924.2860000000001,"endTime":930.4060000000001,"body":"And we actually had bought a house"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":924.2860000000001,"endTime":930.4060000000001,"body":"that was in a 1000 year storm"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":930.4060000000001,"endTime":934.3960000000001,"body":"zone, so it was not in a flood"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":930.4060000000001,"endTime":934.3960000000001,"body":"plain or not in the flood zone."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":934.8660000000001,"endTime":937.4860000000001,"body":"But it then was, it was adjacent to one."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":937.4960000000001,"endTime":941.436,"body":"And then we got hit with a thousand"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":937.4960000000001,"endTime":941.436,"body":"year floods twice in, in less than 12"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":941.436,"endTime":943.3760000000001,"body":"months, which was really super great."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":943.716,"endTime":945.1160000000001,"body":"We lost our kitchen twice."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":945.436,"endTime":950.676,"body":"And in the process of that, we"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":945.436,"endTime":950.676,"body":"became reclassified insurance wise"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":950.686,"endTime":954.6460000000001,"body":"into a flood zone and that had"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":950.686,"endTime":954.6460000000001,"body":"a huge effect on our insurance."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":954.836,"endTime":956.8860000000001,"body":"And this was this was 15 years ago now."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":957.2860000000001,"endTime":960.586,"body":"So that, and that has become a lot"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":957.2860000000001,"endTime":960.586,"body":"more severe because a lot of insurance"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":960.586,"endTime":964.821,"body":"companies are concerned about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":960.586,"endTime":964.821,"body":"the costs that They are going to face"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":964.851,"endTime":969.7310000000001,"body":"because they know that these places"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":964.851,"endTime":969.7310000000001,"body":"that are at risk for extreme weather"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":970.1110000000001,"endTime":973.291,"body":"and climate shocks, that's just going to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":970.1110000000001,"endTime":973.291,"body":"continue and people will be making claims."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":973.301,"endTime":978.7610000000001,"body":"So people who are already living in these"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":973.301,"endTime":978.7610000000001,"body":"areas are facing this crisis firsthand."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":979.1410000000001,"endTime":982.1410000000001,"body":"And the thing I think is the biggest"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":979.1410000000001,"endTime":982.1410000000001,"body":"challenge is many people are going to, you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":982.1410000000001,"endTime":988.081,"body":"know, have to decide whether they relocate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":982.1410000000001,"endTime":988.081,"body":"or they have to basically just, you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":988.081,"endTime":990.1410000000001,"body":"know, go without, reduce their insurance."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":990.171,"endTime":994.4110000000001,"body":"And when the first, or second shocks"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":990.171,"endTime":994.4110000000001,"body":"hit, that's when we're going to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":994.421,"endTime":998.061,"body":"see a huge crisis in areas where"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":994.421,"endTime":998.061,"body":"people are uninsured or don't have"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":998.061,"endTime":999.311,"body":"sufficient insurance for their"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":999.311,"endTime":999.8610000000001,"body":"houses."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1000.2460000000001,"endTime":1001.186,"body":"yeah, it's horrible."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1001.3960000000001,"endTime":1001.7660000000001,"body":"Horrible."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1002.676,"endTime":1007.6160000000001,"body":"Talk to me a little bit about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1002.676,"endTime":1007.6160000000001,"body":"Saving Ourselves book over your shoulder"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1007.6160000000001,"endTime":1011.076,"body":"there because we've skipped through"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1007.6160000000001,"endTime":1011.076,"body":"that we haven't really mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1011.076,"endTime":1012.336,"body":"it and gone into it in any detail."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1012.336,"endTime":1013.666,"body":"What's in the book?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1013.666,"endTime":1014.3960000000001,"body":"What's that about?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1015.941,"endTime":1019.061,"body":"So the book basically"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1015.941,"endTime":1019.061,"body":"brings together these past 25"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1019.061,"endTime":1021.951,"body":"years of research, which has"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1019.061,"endTime":1021.951,"body":"focused on climate policy making."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1021.951,"endTime":1023.471,"body":"We've talked a lot about that."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1024.041,"endTime":1027.261,"body":"And, you know, and I studied climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1024.041,"endTime":1027.261,"body":"policy making at the international level."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1027.271,"endTime":1029.951,"body":"I did international comparisons,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1027.271,"endTime":1029.951,"body":"but then I spent a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1029.961,"endTime":1030.831,"body":"here in the United States."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1031.616,"endTime":1035.276,"body":"You know, looking because there's"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1031.616,"endTime":1035.276,"body":"lots to study, lots of interesting and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1035.276,"endTime":1036.936,"body":"sometimes frustrating things to look at."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1037.006,"endTime":1039.326,"body":"But I also study climate activism."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1039.326,"endTime":1040.966,"body":"I study activism more broadly."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1040.986,"endTime":1044.246,"body":"My last book was called American"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1040.986,"endTime":1044.246,"body":"resistance, then was focusing on all"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1044.246,"endTime":1047.706,"body":"progressive activism during the four"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1044.246,"endTime":1047.706,"body":"years of the Trump administration."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1048.036,"endTime":1051.376,"body":"And so I basically bring together the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1048.036,"endTime":1051.376,"body":"research that I've done around climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1051.526,"endTime":1055.656,"body":"activism with climate policymaking"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1051.526,"endTime":1055.656,"body":"to tell a coherent story about"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1055.906,"endTime":1057.4660000000001,"body":"where we are in the climate crisis."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1057.941,"endTime":1061.611,"body":"So I go back and talk about climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1057.941,"endTime":1061.611,"body":"policy making since, you know, the United"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1061.671,"endTime":1065.671,"body":"Nations Framework Convention on Climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1061.671,"endTime":1065.671,"body":"Change started at the Earth Summit back"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1065.671,"endTime":1070.8310000000001,"body":"in 1992, and I track all of the efforts"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1065.671,"endTime":1070.8310000000001,"body":"internationally to regulate climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1070.8310000000001,"endTime":1075.001,"body":"change and talk about why they've all been"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1070.8310000000001,"endTime":1075.001,"body":"failures, and then I dig down into the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1075.001,"endTime":1081.951,"body":"United States to look at efforts here and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1075.001,"endTime":1081.951,"body":"see why we need to basically accept that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1082.161,"endTime":1086.181,"body":"policymaking is not going to get us where"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1082.161,"endTime":1086.181,"body":"we need to go unless the people start to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1086.181,"endTime":1091.4840000000002,"body":"claim power for themselves, and push back"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1086.181,"endTime":1091.4840000000002,"body":"to require that the state and the market"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1091.4940000000001,"endTime":1092.9840000000002,"body":"do something to address the problem."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1093.2240000000002,"endTime":1097.084,"body":"And so the book is all about thinking"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1093.2240000000002,"endTime":1097.084,"body":"through how we take power back for"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1097.084,"endTime":1100.644,"body":"ourselves, given that the state"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1097.084,"endTime":1100.644,"body":"is not going to come and save us."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1100.644,"endTime":1104.569,"body":"Nobody's swooping in on, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1100.644,"endTime":1104.569,"body":"a white horse to fix this problem."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1104.779,"endTime":1109.1390000000001,"body":"Instead, we're going to have to rise"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1104.779,"endTime":1109.1390000000001,"body":"up, push back against power, push back"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1109.1390000000001,"endTime":1113.339,"body":"against these fossil fuel interests that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1109.1390000000001,"endTime":1113.339,"body":"are vested, and have these privileged"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1113.3790000000001,"endTime":1119.259,"body":"access that I talked about already, and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1113.3790000000001,"endTime":1119.259,"body":"start to push and require that these"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1119.279,"endTime":1122.709,"body":"decision makers do what they need to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1119.279,"endTime":1122.709,"body":"do, or else they're going to lose power."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1123.079,"endTime":1124.489,"body":"And so the whole book is about that."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1124.489,"endTime":1127.929,"body":"So we claim power back for ourselves"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1124.489,"endTime":1127.929,"body":"and then how it will, how it"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1127.929,"endTime":1129.3990000000001,"body":"will look and what we need to do."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1129.954,"endTime":1133.7740000000001,"body":"And I go into a, I go into a little detail"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1129.954,"endTime":1133.7740000000001,"body":"about the different types of activists."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1133.794,"endTime":1139.394,"body":"I talk about this growing and evolving"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1133.794,"endTime":1139.394,"body":"movement that is including a lot more"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1139.394,"endTime":1143.174,"body":"nonviolent civil disobedience than we've"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1139.394,"endTime":1143.174,"body":"seen before in the climate movement."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1143.634,"endTime":1144.7640000000001,"body":"And I talk about what that means."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1145.012,"endTime":1147.262,"body":"Okay, so talk"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1145.012,"endTime":1147.262,"body":"a little bit about that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1147.342,"endTime":1149.512,"body":"How can we claim our power back?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1149.512,"endTime":1155.5520000000001,"body":"Is it throwing soup at paintings"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1149.512,"endTime":1155.5520000000001,"body":"or is it something beyond that,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1155.5520000000001,"endTime":1158.902,"body":"or less than that, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1155.5520000000001,"endTime":1158.902,"body":"where are you on that spectrum?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1160.287,"endTime":1163.204,"body":"So I am an all of the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1160.287,"endTime":1163.204,"body":"above person, So you'd probably have"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1163.204,"endTime":1166.814,"body":"heard of those who are in the all of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1163.204,"endTime":1166.814,"body":"the above energy, you know, strategy."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1166.814,"endTime":1169.2740000000001,"body":"Well, I am an all of the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1166.814,"endTime":1169.2740000000001,"body":"above activism strategy."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1169.2740000000001,"endTime":1171.9940000000001,"body":"So, you know, I've studied"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1169.2740000000001,"endTime":1171.9940000000001,"body":"civic engagement and activism"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1171.9940000000001,"endTime":1173.374,"body":"for my entire career."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1173.664,"endTime":1177.44,"body":"I actually wrote the section on civic"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1173.664,"endTime":1177.44,"body":"engagement and climate activism for the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1177.44,"endTime":1179.779,"body":"most recent IPCC for working group three."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1179.799,"endTime":1182.3790000000001,"body":"So that's kind of my that's my space."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1182.6290000000001,"endTime":1187.579,"body":"And I believe that it is all about people"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1182.6290000000001,"endTime":1187.579,"body":"doing whatever they're comfortable with."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1187.589,"endTime":1191.749,"body":"So we're going to save ourselves by"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1187.589,"endTime":1191.749,"body":"people working in their communities"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1191.759,"endTime":1196.969,"body":"to get community centers, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1191.759,"endTime":1196.969,"body":"to transition to clean energy, to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1196.999,"endTime":1201.3690000000001,"body":"create more resilient communities where"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1196.999,"endTime":1201.3690000000001,"body":"we're actually prepared to support"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1201.3690000000001,"endTime":1203.289,"body":"one another when climate shocks come."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1203.919,"endTime":1208.339,"body":"But also people who want to push"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1203.919,"endTime":1208.339,"body":"for elected officials who don't take"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1208.339,"endTime":1212.189,"body":"fossil fuel money as well as people"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1208.339,"endTime":1212.189,"body":"who might decide that they need to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1212.199,"endTime":1216.419,"body":"throw soup or crazy glue themselves"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1212.199,"endTime":1216.419,"body":"to something so that the media starts"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1216.419,"endTime":1218.499,"body":"to talk more about the climate crisis."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1218.809,"endTime":1222.489,"body":"I think we need all of those people"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1218.809,"endTime":1222.489,"body":"doing all sorts of things because"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1222.489,"endTime":1226.319,"body":"this is a really, really widespread"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1222.489,"endTime":1226.319,"body":"problem and it's going to take all"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1226.319,"endTime":1229.229,"body":"of us to push back against power to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1226.319,"endTime":1229.229,"body":"make the changes that are needed."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1229.699,"endTime":1233.1090000000002,"body":"And what do you say to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1229.699,"endTime":1233.1090000000002,"body":"people who say that throwing soup"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1233.1090000000002,"endTime":1238.039,"body":"at paintings or gluing yourself"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1233.1090000000002,"endTime":1238.039,"body":"to whatever harms the movement?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1239.684,"endTime":1242.0140000000001,"body":"I would say that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1239.684,"endTime":1242.0140000000001,"body":"there's no evidence to support that."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1242.0240000000001,"endTime":1243.954,"body":"And I've actually, I've"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1242.0240000000001,"endTime":1243.954,"body":"written a couple of pieces."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1244.204,"endTime":1248.4740000000002,"body":"Most recently I had a piece that was"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1244.204,"endTime":1248.4740000000002,"body":"in Nature magazine with two colleagues"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1248.4740000000002,"endTime":1250.424,"body":"who also study climate activism."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1250.874,"endTime":1254.624,"body":"And in that piece, we talk about"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1250.874,"endTime":1254.624,"body":"the fact that actually, if you look"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1254.624,"endTime":1259.114,"body":"at the research and you look at the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1254.624,"endTime":1259.114,"body":"data, there is no evidence that these"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1259.144,"endTime":1262.464,"body":"kinds of what we call me, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1259.144,"endTime":1262.464,"body":"to use my air quotes here, my radical"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1262.464,"endTime":1267.169,"body":"tactics, like, Throwing soup,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1262.464,"endTime":1267.169,"body":"blocking traffic, crazy gluing."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1267.449,"endTime":1269.159,"body":"None of those things are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1267.449,"endTime":1269.159,"body":"actually quite radical."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1269.159,"endTime":1273.539,"body":"I mean, if we look at the history of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1269.159,"endTime":1273.539,"body":"social movements, we can see lots more"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1273.539,"endTime":1277.309,"body":"radical tactics that involve violence"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1273.539,"endTime":1277.309,"body":"and involve property destruction."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1277.769,"endTime":1280.6290000000001,"body":"And, you know, in the past, you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1277.769,"endTime":1280.6290000000001,"body":"know, great cases of that are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1280.6290000000001,"endTime":1283.6490000000001,"body":"women's suffrage or the civil rights"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1280.6290000000001,"endTime":1283.6490000000001,"body":"movement here in the United States."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1283.8690000000001,"endTime":1289.659,"body":"Here we have a relatively, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1283.8690000000001,"endTime":1289.659,"body":"tame, you know, radical flank so far."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1290.219,"endTime":1294.089,"body":"And so, so there's, so it's worth"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1290.219,"endTime":1294.089,"body":"noting that, but also evidence in"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1294.089,"endTime":1298.6190000000001,"body":"terms of looking at research so"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1294.089,"endTime":1298.6190000000001,"body":"far into the, you know, people's"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1298.6290000000001,"endTime":1301.009,"body":"opinions about the radical flank."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1301.1290000000001,"endTime":1301.699,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1301.779,"endTime":1304.989,"body":"Some people, and there's been some"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1301.779,"endTime":1304.989,"body":"interesting new research that shows that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1304.989,"endTime":1309.279,"body":"some people are very unsupportive of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1304.989,"endTime":1309.279,"body":"these tactics in these organizations."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1309.289,"endTime":1310.969,"body":"And in response to that, I would say one."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1311.539,"endTime":1313.429,"body":"The radical flank is always unpopular."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1313.449,"endTime":1318.469,"body":"And in my, in my book, I talk about how"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1313.449,"endTime":1318.469,"body":"the civil rights movement was extremely"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1318.469,"endTime":1323.509,"body":"unpopular when they had people who were"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1318.469,"endTime":1323.509,"body":"doing things like sit ins and you know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1323.689,"endTime":1327.929,"body":"blocking things and, you know, doing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1323.689,"endTime":1327.929,"body":"freedom rides where they were basically"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1327.929,"endTime":1332.279,"body":"coming into areas and trying to push"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1327.929,"endTime":1332.279,"body":"for supporting the vote and registering,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1332.289,"endTime":1333.6190000000001,"body":"you know, black Americans to vote."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1333.909,"endTime":1335.799,"body":"All of those things were super unpopular."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1335.809,"endTime":1336.939,"body":"So this is consistent."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1336.939,"endTime":1337.819,"body":"They're going to be unpopular."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1337.829,"endTime":1342.9840000000002,"body":"However, There's no evidence that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1337.829,"endTime":1342.9840000000002,"body":"that unpopularity of the organizations"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1342.9840000000002,"endTime":1346.794,"body":"doing the radical tactics has any"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1342.9840000000002,"endTime":1346.794,"body":"effect on the broader consensus"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1346.794,"endTime":1347.834,"body":"and support for the movement."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1348.174,"endTime":1352.5040000000001,"body":"And in fact, I actually, I just wrote"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1348.174,"endTime":1352.5040000000001,"body":"a piece that summarizes data that I"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1352.5040000000001,"endTime":1356.384,"body":"collected in September from people who are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1352.5040000000001,"endTime":1356.384,"body":"participating in the march to end fossil"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1356.384,"endTime":1360.094,"body":"fuels, which was the largest climate march"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1356.384,"endTime":1360.094,"body":"we've had in the United States since."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1360.4840000000002,"endTime":1364.4940000000001,"body":"The Biden administration took"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1360.4840000000002,"endTime":1364.4940000000001,"body":"office and that had 75, 000 people"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1364.5140000000001,"endTime":1366.7240000000002,"body":"marching in the streets of New"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1364.5140000000001,"endTime":1366.7240000000002,"body":"York City right before the U."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1366.7240000000002,"endTime":1366.864,"body":"N."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1366.884,"endTime":1368.704,"body":"had its meeting around"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1366.884,"endTime":1368.704,"body":"climate change in the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1368.704,"endTime":1369.124,"body":"fall."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1369.964,"endTime":1373.454,"body":"And at that protest, I survey protesters."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1373.454,"endTime":1376.074,"body":"That's one of the things I"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1373.454,"endTime":1376.074,"body":"So we I had a team of people."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1376.314,"endTime":1377.2440000000001,"body":"We went out in the street."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1377.2440000000001,"endTime":1380.834,"body":"We did a random sample of the people"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1377.2440000000001,"endTime":1380.834,"body":"in the crowd and what we asked"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1380.834,"endTime":1385.4740000000002,"body":"them, in addition to all these other"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1380.834,"endTime":1385.4740000000002,"body":"questions, we asked them one, did they"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1385.4740000000002,"endTime":1387.554,"body":"participate in civil disobedience?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1387.554,"endTime":1390.794,"body":"Less than 50 percent of the people in"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1387.554,"endTime":1390.794,"body":"the crowd reported having participated"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1390.794,"endTime":1392.934,"body":"in civil disobedience in the past year."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1393.174,"endTime":1396.2240000000002,"body":"So these are not these, these folks"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1393.174,"endTime":1396.2240000000002,"body":"who are engaging in, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1396.2240000000002,"endTime":1400.144,"body":"radical flank, these are mostly, you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1396.2240000000002,"endTime":1400.144,"body":"know, activists who are doing other"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1400.144,"endTime":1401.7340000000002,"body":"parts of the, all of the above strategy."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1401.904,"endTime":1402.104,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1402.104,"endTime":1402.864,"body":"That was number one."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1403.054,"endTime":1407.7240000000002,"body":"And number two, I said, the question was,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1403.054,"endTime":1407.7240000000002,"body":"do you support organizations that are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1407.7340000000002,"endTime":1411.924,"body":"engaging in nonviolent civil disobedience"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1407.7340000000002,"endTime":1411.924,"body":"such as, and I listed all these things."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1412.7440000000001,"endTime":1416.2640000000001,"body":"sit ins, blockades, throwing food,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1412.7440000000001,"endTime":1416.2640000000001,"body":"you know, et cetera and so forth."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1416.7340000000002,"endTime":1419.634,"body":"And I, so I thought it would be"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1416.7340000000002,"endTime":1419.634,"body":"really interesting to parse out in the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1419.634,"endTime":1424.0240000000001,"body":"movement who was supporting it and who"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1419.634,"endTime":1424.0240000000001,"body":"wasn't, not one person said they didn't"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1424.0240000000001,"endTime":1426.184,"body":"support these organizations and these"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1426.204,"endTime":1430.354,"body":"actions, they were not doing it"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1426.204,"endTime":1430.354,"body":"themselves, but so any claims that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1430.354,"endTime":1433.354,"body":"this is turning off people in the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1430.354,"endTime":1433.354,"body":"movement, there's no evidence of it."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1433.714,"endTime":1435.777,"body":"What there is evidence of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1433.714,"endTime":1435.777,"body":"is the people who weren't"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1435.807,"endTime":1437.567,"body":"supporting climate action anyway."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1437.567,"endTime":1437.607,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1438.1870000000001,"endTime":1438.987,"body":"They don't support it."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1439.007,"endTime":1442.827,"body":"And some people who support climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1439.007,"endTime":1442.827,"body":"action and want to be doing work"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1442.827,"endTime":1446.277,"body":"like investing in electric school"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1442.827,"endTime":1446.277,"body":"buses in their communities, which is"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1446.277,"endTime":1449.3970000000002,"body":"an absolutely wonderful tactic and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1446.277,"endTime":1449.3970000000002,"body":"a wonderful thing for people to be"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1449.3970000000002,"endTime":1449.787,"body":"doing."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1450.087,"endTime":1453.4370000000001,"body":"Those people may not like organizations"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1450.087,"endTime":1453.4370000000001,"body":"that are gluing themselves or throwing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1453.4370000000001,"endTime":1456.807,"body":"food, and that's fine, but there's"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1453.4370000000001,"endTime":1456.807,"body":"no evidence that that's going to keep"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1456.827,"endTime":1460.037,"body":"them from working on their school"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1456.827,"endTime":1460.037,"body":"buses or getting fossil fuels, you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1460.037,"endTime":1461.957,"body":"know, fuel money out of politics."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1462.377,"endTime":1465.4070000000002,"body":"So I think everybody who's making those"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1462.377,"endTime":1465.4070000000002,"body":"claims needs to look at the research."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1465.462,"endTime":1465.912,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1466.192,"endTime":1466.612,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1466.982,"endTime":1474.452,"body":"And how effective is that kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1466.982,"endTime":1474.452,"body":"again, throwing food, gluing, marches."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1474.452,"endTime":1477.722,"body":"Well, not so much marches, let's say, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1474.452,"endTime":1477.722,"body":"go slows where you're slowing traffic,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1477.722,"endTime":1479.192,"body":"blocking traffic, these kinds of things."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1479.5220000000002,"endTime":1481.632,"body":"How, how effective are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1479.5220000000002,"endTime":1481.632,"body":"those kinds of campaigns?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1483.222,"endTime":1486.122,"body":"So those campaigns, I"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1483.222,"endTime":1486.122,"body":"mean so in my book I actually distinguish"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1486.122,"endTime":1487.787,"body":"the radical flank and I break it up."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1487.787,"endTime":1492.1970000000001,"body":"The type of civil disobedience we see"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1487.787,"endTime":1492.1970000000001,"body":"into the groups that I say are shockers."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1492.617,"endTime":1495.6970000000001,"body":"And those are the folks who are doing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1492.617,"endTime":1495.6970000000001,"body":"these kind of performative acts to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1495.6970000000001,"endTime":1497.517,"body":"get attention and get media coverage."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1498.0520000000001,"endTime":1502.982,"body":"And the idea there is that their goal"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1498.0520000000001,"endTime":1502.982,"body":"specifically is to get media coverage"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1503.212,"endTime":1506.412,"body":"so that they have opportunities"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1503.212,"endTime":1506.412,"body":"to talk about the climate crisis"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1506.632,"endTime":1509.102,"body":"on TV, in the media, online."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1509.5420000000001,"endTime":1513.5620000000001,"body":"And to the degree that that is their"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1509.5420000000001,"endTime":1513.5620000000001,"body":"goal, they are absolutely effective."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1513.602,"endTime":1517.152,"body":"I mean, and a great example of that is"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1513.602,"endTime":1517.152,"body":"most recently we saw the folks who threw"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1517.152,"endTime":1523.102,"body":"the pumpkin soup at the Mona Lisa and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1517.152,"endTime":1523.102,"body":"people were, I think the word apoplectic"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1523.102,"endTime":1524.912,"body":"would be a legit way of doing it, right?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1524.912,"endTime":1527.0420000000001,"body":"I mean, people were"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1524.912,"endTime":1527.0420000000001,"body":"very unhappy about this."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1527.0720000000001,"endTime":1530.577,"body":"I mean, I'm not super excited about"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1527.0720000000001,"endTime":1530.577,"body":"seeing people throwing food in that case."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1530.617,"endTime":1535.4370000000001,"body":"I thought the people at the museum were"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1530.617,"endTime":1535.4370000000001,"body":"very effective in kind of closing it"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1535.4370000000001,"endTime":1537.1470000000002,"body":"down really quickly and addressing it."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1537.1470000000002,"endTime":1539.977,"body":"And of course, there was no damage to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1537.1470000000002,"endTime":1539.977,"body":"the painting it is worth noting here."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1540.767,"endTime":1543.277,"body":"But what was really interesting is"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1540.767,"endTime":1543.277,"body":"if you looked at media coverage,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1543.277,"endTime":1546.037,"body":"a great example of this, one of my"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1543.277,"endTime":1546.037,"body":"colleagues posted is if you looked at"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1546.037,"endTime":1550.307,"body":"the front page of the Washington Post"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1546.037,"endTime":1550.307,"body":"website right after that happened."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1550.7920000000001,"endTime":1554.762,"body":"There was a video on one side of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1550.7920000000001,"endTime":1554.762,"body":"these activists throwing soup and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1554.762,"endTime":1557.502,"body":"on the other side it was a list of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1554.762,"endTime":1557.502,"body":"the organization and their demands."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1557.8220000000001,"endTime":1559.7920000000001,"body":"You can't buy that kind of media coverage."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1560.0720000000001,"endTime":1561.512,"body":"So it's super effective."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1561.512,"endTime":1566.512,"body":"I mean another example was the guy who"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1561.512,"endTime":1566.512,"body":"glued his foot to the stadium at the U."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1566.512,"endTime":1566.642,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1566.662,"endTime":1567.992,"body":"Open during the tennis match in the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1567.992,"endTime":1568.402,"body":"fall."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1569.262,"endTime":1570.622,"body":"People were really mad about that."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1570.622,"endTime":1571.7720000000002,"body":"They had to pause play."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1572.0420000000001,"endTime":1574.732,"body":"Didn't affect anybody's ability"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1572.0420000000001,"endTime":1574.732,"body":"to see the whole game or the game"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1574.732,"endTime":1576.8220000000001,"body":"happening, but they had to pause play."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1577.142,"endTime":1579.652,"body":"Well, I ended up being"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1577.142,"endTime":1579.652,"body":"asked to go on TMZ Live."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1580.057,"endTime":1582.787,"body":"For the first time ever to talk"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1580.057,"endTime":1582.787,"body":"about this, which is funny because"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1582.787,"endTime":1584.367,"body":"I was like, is this a joke?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1584.3970000000002,"endTime":1588.297,"body":"I mean, who wants to talk to a sociologist"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1584.3970000000002,"endTime":1588.297,"body":"who studies climate, you know, change"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1588.297,"endTime":1592.587,"body":"and climate activism on this TV show"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1588.297,"endTime":1592.587,"body":"that tends to talk about sports, etc."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1592.587,"endTime":1593.207,"body":"and gossip."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1593.557,"endTime":1596.1570000000002,"body":"But I went on and they said, you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1593.557,"endTime":1596.1570000000002,"body":"know, they said, is this effective?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1596.1570000000002,"endTime":1599.787,"body":"And I said, well, I'm here"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1596.1570000000002,"endTime":1599.787,"body":"on TMZ live talking about it."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1599.787,"endTime":1602.737,"body":"And we ended up talking about climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1599.787,"endTime":1602.737,"body":"policymaking and why these folks"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1602.737,"endTime":1606.007,"body":"were feeling like they had nothing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1602.737,"endTime":1606.007,"body":"else, no other option than to go"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1606.007,"endTime":1608.007,"body":"and disrupt, you know, a sports"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1608.007,"endTime":1608.387,"body":"event."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1608.967,"endTime":1610.622,"body":"So it was, it was very"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1608.967,"endTime":1610.622,"body":"effective in that way."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1610.632,"endTime":1611.492,"body":"So that's number one."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1611.742,"endTime":1614.702,"body":"Number two, you know, I talk about the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1611.742,"endTime":1614.702,"body":"folks that are not the shockers, but the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1614.702,"endTime":1618.5220000000002,"body":"groups that I call disruptors within the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1614.702,"endTime":1618.5220000000002,"body":"radical flank of the climate movement."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1618.5220000000002,"endTime":1622.372,"body":"And those are activists who are using"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1618.5220000000002,"endTime":1622.372,"body":"civil disobedience at specific moments"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1622.612,"endTime":1626.112,"body":"to draw attention to broader campaigns"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1622.612,"endTime":1626.112,"body":"they're doing that work through what we"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1626.112,"endTime":1632.012,"body":"call like insider tactics, like moving"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1626.112,"endTime":1632.012,"body":"money or divestment, as well as doing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1632.012,"endTime":1633.482,"body":"these events to draw attention to it."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1633.482,"endTime":1635.612,"body":"I talk about a couple of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1633.482,"endTime":1635.612,"body":"different examples in the book."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1636.067,"endTime":1638.757,"body":"And those are particularly"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1636.067,"endTime":1638.757,"body":"effective because they basically"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1638.757,"endTime":1642.9170000000001,"body":"have a lot to shine light on when"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1638.757,"endTime":1642.9170000000001,"body":"they get the media attention."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1643.297,"endTime":1646.567,"body":"But I mean, the other thing that I would"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1643.297,"endTime":1646.567,"body":"say about this question of effectiveness"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1646.587,"endTime":1650.9270000000001,"body":"is that we do know that having a"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1646.587,"endTime":1650.9270000000001,"body":"radical flank provides opportunities"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1650.957,"endTime":1656.507,"body":"to draw attention to the movement"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1650.957,"endTime":1656.507,"body":"and is known to increase support for"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1656.507,"endTime":1658.227,"body":"more moderate factions of a movement."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1658.507,"endTime":1661.837,"body":"For example, the action"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1658.507,"endTime":1661.837,"body":"that happened at the U."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1661.837,"endTime":1661.987,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1662.007,"endTime":1662.517,"body":"Open."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1662.967,"endTime":1666.607,"body":"Coco, who was one of the people"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1662.967,"endTime":1666.607,"body":"who was playing, right, the tennis"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1666.607,"endTime":1669.9470000000001,"body":"player, actually said, I don't support"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1666.607,"endTime":1669.9470000000001,"body":"this group, but I think we need to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1669.9470000000001,"endTime":1671.577,"body":"do more on climate change, right?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1671.747,"endTime":1675.587,"body":"She basically spoke legit, you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1671.747,"endTime":1675.587,"body":"know, she provided a textbook case"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1676.037,"endTime":1677.727,"body":"of the way the radical flank works."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1677.9270000000001,"endTime":1679.9370000000001,"body":"People thinking, Hmm, this is an issue."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1679.967,"endTime":1681.727,"body":"I should do something,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1679.967,"endTime":1681.727,"body":"but I don't support them."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1681.957,"endTime":1684.527,"body":"I'm going to go over here and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1681.957,"endTime":1684.527,"body":"do something about the issue."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1684.837,"endTime":1687.547,"body":"And so those are, so it"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1684.837,"endTime":1687.547,"body":"works on individuals."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1687.967,"endTime":1692.377,"body":"But then finally, when we look at whether"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1687.967,"endTime":1692.377,"body":"it works on policymaking, you cannot draw"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1692.4370000000001,"endTime":1696.967,"body":"a straight line between these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1692.4370000000001,"endTime":1696.967,"body":"more radical tactics and decision making."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1697.287,"endTime":1701.317,"body":"But we do, do know from research that it"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1697.287,"endTime":1701.317,"body":"helps to put pressure on policymakers."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1701.567,"endTime":1705.377,"body":"And a good example of that is in the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1701.567,"endTime":1705.377,"body":"United States, the Biden administration,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1705.837,"endTime":1710.117,"body":"after being protested numerous, you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1705.837,"endTime":1710.117,"body":"know, talks through the activists who"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1710.117,"endTime":1712.767,"body":"are doing what we call bird dogging"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1710.117,"endTime":1712.767,"body":"the, the, particularly there's one"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1712.767,"endTime":1716.487,"body":"group that has been going to these"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1712.767,"endTime":1716.487,"body":"events and they, they heckle and yell"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1716.497,"endTime":1719.9370000000001,"body":"at people when they're trying to give"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1716.497,"endTime":1719.9370000000001,"body":"talks to draw attention to climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1719.9370000000001,"endTime":1723.757,"body":"change, the climate crisis, the need"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1719.9370000000001,"endTime":1723.757,"body":"to declare a climate emergency, fossil"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1723.757,"endTime":1725.287,"body":"fuel money in politics, stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1726.1470000000002,"endTime":1728.757,"body":"And in response to that,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1726.1470000000002,"endTime":1728.757,"body":"partially, I mean, there were"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1728.757,"endTime":1729.867,"body":"other, you know, campaign."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1729.9370000000001,"endTime":1732.117,"body":"This was part of a broader"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1729.9370000000001,"endTime":1732.117,"body":"campaign with other groups."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1732.827,"endTime":1736.057,"body":"The administration announced they"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1732.827,"endTime":1736.057,"body":"were going to pause expanding"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1736.127,"endTime":1740.067,"body":"LNG, that's compressed natural gas"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1736.127,"endTime":1740.067,"body":"exports from the United States."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1740.287,"endTime":1744.247,"body":"And when the, when President Biden"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1740.287,"endTime":1744.247,"body":"announced this, he specifically"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1744.247,"endTime":1747.627,"body":"talked about the young people who"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1744.247,"endTime":1747.627,"body":"were very concerned and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1747.6570000000002,"endTime":1751.327,"body":"and were disrupting policymaking"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1747.6570000000002,"endTime":1751.327,"body":"because of their concerns."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1751.327,"endTime":1756.867,"body":"So he actually motioned towards the people"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1751.327,"endTime":1756.867,"body":"who are doing these kinds of actions."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1757.497,"endTime":1759.637,"body":"When he said, we've decided"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1757.497,"endTime":1759.637,"body":"to put a pause on it."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1759.6470000000002,"endTime":1762.587,"body":"Now, there is a rumor that the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1759.6470000000002,"endTime":1762.587,"body":"pause is going to end very soon."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1762.587,"endTime":1767.587,"body":"So, you know, obviously, you know, more"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1762.587,"endTime":1767.587,"body":"activism may be needed to get across the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1767.587,"endTime":1772.347,"body":"finish line in terms of limiting, you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1767.587,"endTime":1772.347,"body":"know, the expansion of natural gas, but"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1772.467,"endTime":1777.797,"body":"there's no question that this type of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1772.467,"endTime":1777.797,"body":"a tactic as part of a broader campaign"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1777.797,"endTime":1779.877,"body":"can be, can be extremely effective."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1779.887,"endTime":1781.827,"body":"And there's evidence"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1779.887,"endTime":1781.827,"body":"even recently about that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1781.852,"endTime":1782.192,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1782.632,"endTime":1782.862,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1782.912,"endTime":1783.092,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1783.092,"endTime":1786.5420000000001,"body":"And I mean, to your earlier point,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1783.092,"endTime":1786.5420000000001,"body":"we got to keep in mind that this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1786.5520000000001,"endTime":1791.472,"body":"is, we, we, we say it's radical,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1786.5520000000001,"endTime":1791.472,"body":"but really it's not radical at all."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1791.472,"endTime":1794.952,"body":"When you think back to some of the other"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1791.472,"endTime":1794.952,"body":"civil disobedience movements, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1794.952,"endTime":1798.0720000000001,"body":"you mentioned that the suffragettes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1794.952,"endTime":1798.0720000000001,"body":"and the suffragettes famously went on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1798.0720000000001,"endTime":1802.262,"body":"a hunger strike, the suffragettes threw"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1798.0720000000001,"endTime":1802.262,"body":"themselves in front of horses and in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1802.262,"endTime":1808.182,"body":"some cases were killed to disrupt races"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1802.262,"endTime":1808.182,"body":"they bombed museums and libraries."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1808.232,"endTime":1810.012,"body":"I mean, that's radical."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1810.012,"endTime":1811.067,"body":"At the height of this."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1811.387,"endTime":1814.527,"body":"Yeah, that's completely, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1811.387,"endTime":1814.527,"body":"interesting because in my, I'm teaching"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1814.527,"endTime":1819.087,"body":"a class on activism right now, and we"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1814.527,"endTime":1819.087,"body":"just read a great account of violence"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1819.097,"endTime":1823.797,"body":"in, in the struggle for women's suffrage"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1819.097,"endTime":1823.797,"body":"and during the height of the movement,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1824.027,"endTime":1826.067,"body":"they were blowing up a building a month."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1827.227,"endTime":1830.6870000000001,"body":"I mean, they, they were, it's just,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1827.227,"endTime":1830.6870000000001,"body":"I mean, I hadn't, I honestly had"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1830.6970000000001,"endTime":1832.6770000000001,"body":"no idea how violent they were."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1832.967,"endTime":1836.487,"body":"And there's an interesting question"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1832.967,"endTime":1836.487,"body":"about the degree to which the diffusion"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1836.487,"endTime":1842.0620000000001,"body":"of these time types of violent acts were"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1836.487,"endTime":1842.0620000000001,"body":"associated with women eventually getting"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1842.262,"endTime":1846.742,"body":"the vote, but it's fascinating to look"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1842.262,"endTime":1846.742,"body":"at the degree to which they got violent."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1846.752,"endTime":1850.7820000000002,"body":"And I, you know, I applaud all"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1846.752,"endTime":1850.7820000000002,"body":"of the folks who are engaging in"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1851.242,"endTime":1855.882,"body":"confrontational activism right now who"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1851.242,"endTime":1855.882,"body":"are staying the course and committing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1855.882,"endTime":1859.862,"body":"to being nonviolent because I think"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1855.882,"endTime":1859.862,"body":"nonviolence is absolutely necessary."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1860.412,"endTime":1864.637,"body":"I do, and I talk about in the book"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1860.412,"endTime":1864.637,"body":"that unfortunately, historically,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1864.637,"endTime":1868.977,"body":"nonviolence ends up being repressed"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1864.637,"endTime":1868.977,"body":"through violent acts from law"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1868.977,"endTime":1870.557,"body":"enforcement and counter movements."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1871.057,"endTime":1874.6770000000001,"body":"And so I expect that we are going"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1871.057,"endTime":1874.6770000000001,"body":"to be seeing violence in the street,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1874.6770000000001,"endTime":1877.487,"body":"but I do not expect that it will"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1874.6770000000001,"endTime":1877.487,"body":"be coming from the activists."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1877.817,"endTime":1880.957,"body":"It will be coming from other channels"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1877.817,"endTime":1880.957,"body":"and we're starting to see repression"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1880.957,"endTime":1884.8970000000002,"body":"ramping up in Europe, in the UK"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1880.957,"endTime":1884.8970000000002,"body":"and here in the United States."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1884.8970000000002,"endTime":1887.617,"body":"So, so it's probably coming quite soon."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1888.267,"endTime":1893.237,"body":"And for people listening"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1888.267,"endTime":1893.237,"body":"who might want to get involved in some"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1893.637,"endTime":1898.4270000000001,"body":"form of activism, whether it's extremely"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1893.637,"endTime":1898.4270000000001,"body":"moderate or whether it's more radical."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1899.403,"endTime":1901.403,"body":"What kind of advice would you give them?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1901.403,"endTime":1902.7630000000001,"body":"What kind of steps should they take?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1902.823,"endTime":1903.413,"body":"How should they do?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1903.453,"endTime":1904.313,"body":"How should they go about it?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1906.017,"endTime":1908.767,"body":"So I end the book with"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1906.017,"endTime":1908.767,"body":"three points that are suggestions"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1908.767,"endTime":1912.557,"body":"for anybody who wants to get involved"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1908.767,"endTime":1912.557,"body":"in helping us save ourselves."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1912.857,"endTime":1915.6870000000001,"body":"Two of them are for folks who want"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1912.857,"endTime":1915.6870000000001,"body":"to get involved in activism, and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1915.6870000000001,"endTime":1916.797,"body":"one is for the general public."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1916.797,"endTime":1920.637,"body":"So the two on activism are, number"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1916.797,"endTime":1920.637,"body":"one, anybody who wants to get"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1920.637,"endTime":1924.1670000000001,"body":"involved in activism needs to think"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1920.637,"endTime":1924.1670000000001,"body":"about how we can create community"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1924.1670000000001,"endTime":1925.807,"body":"and solidarity within the movement."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1926.317,"endTime":1931.527,"body":"At this point, the climate movement still"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1926.317,"endTime":1931.527,"body":"is quite small, and it is quite isolated."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1931.807,"endTime":1935.6570000000002,"body":"What we need to do is think about ways"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1931.807,"endTime":1935.6570000000002,"body":"that the climate movement can connect with"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1935.6870000000001,"endTime":1941.517,"body":"other movements and struggles that are"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1935.6870000000001,"endTime":1941.517,"body":"around justice, equity, against racism"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1941.747,"endTime":1945.727,"body":"for labor, to think about how you can"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1941.747,"endTime":1945.727,"body":"draw those kinds of connections because"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1945.727,"endTime":1949.857,"body":"it's that kind of solidarity and in"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1945.727,"endTime":1949.857,"body":"many cases intersectionality that will"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1949.857,"endTime":1953.6570000000002,"body":"be extremely helpful for expanding the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1949.857,"endTime":1953.6570000000002,"body":"movement and giving the movement strength."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1954.347,"endTime":1954.977,"body":"That's number one."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1954.977,"endTime":1957.9470000000001,"body":"Number two is for those people"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1954.977,"endTime":1957.9470000000001,"body":"who are interested in engaging"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1957.957,"endTime":1961.477,"body":"in more radical, you know, again,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1957.957,"endTime":1961.477,"body":"the air quote, radical tactics."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1961.807,"endTime":1966.977,"body":"I would say that there the movement needs"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1961.807,"endTime":1966.977,"body":"to think about capitalizing on what we"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1966.977,"endTime":1972.137,"body":"call moral shocks, including violence"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1966.977,"endTime":1972.137,"body":"and moral shocks are the actions that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1972.137,"endTime":1976.6770000000001,"body":"will be taken against activists that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1972.137,"endTime":1976.6770000000001,"body":"will offend and shock the general public."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1976.977,"endTime":1979.497,"body":"Because there are lots of people"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1976.977,"endTime":1979.497,"body":"who care about climate change"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1979.497,"endTime":1980.857,"body":"who have not yet mobilized."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1981.352,"endTime":1985.8020000000001,"body":"Who historic, you know, history"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1981.352,"endTime":1985.8020000000001,"body":"and previous research tells us will"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1985.8020000000001,"endTime":1990.832,"body":"mobilize if they are made aware of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1985.8020000000001,"endTime":1990.832,"body":"these kinds of radical or no repressive"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1990.952,"endTime":1994.082,"body":"actions against nonviolent activists."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1994.332,"endTime":1997.012,"body":"There are great examples of this"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1994.332,"endTime":1997.012,"body":"during the civil rights movement."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1997.242,"endTime":2000.892,"body":"More recently, we saw in the United"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":1997.242,"endTime":2000.892,"body":"States after the protests of George"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2000.902,"endTime":2005.432,"body":"Floyd were expanding, the president"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2000.902,"endTime":2005.432,"body":"came in and tear gassed a bunch"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2005.432,"endTime":2009.012,"body":"of nonviolent activists, including"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2005.432,"endTime":2009.012,"body":"members of the media in Washington, D."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2009.012,"endTime":2009.502,"body":"C."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2009.807,"endTime":2012.777,"body":"And the day after that happened,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2009.807,"endTime":2012.777,"body":"when people watch that on national"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2012.777,"endTime":2016.517,"body":"television, there were so many more"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2012.777,"endTime":2016.517,"body":"people in the streets around the country."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2016.517,"endTime":2020.497,"body":"So there was a huge effect to this kind of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2016.517,"endTime":2020.497,"body":"repression and violence against activists."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2020.9070000000002,"endTime":2024.887,"body":"So I think that the activists need"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2020.9070000000002,"endTime":2024.887,"body":"to be prepared for it and they need"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2024.887,"endTime":2028.164,"body":"to be prepared to take a, to take"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2024.887,"endTime":2028.164,"body":"advantage of the violence against"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2028.164,"endTime":2029.9940000000001,"body":"them to help expand the movement."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2030.584,"endTime":2031.364,"body":"And that's number two."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2031.364,"endTime":2034.4840000000002,"body":"And then number three for everybody,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2031.364,"endTime":2034.4840000000002,"body":"you don't need to be an activist."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2034.894,"endTime":2036.814,"body":"You don't need to do any type of activism."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2037.0040000000001,"endTime":2041.194,"body":"What we all need to be doing is we need"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2037.0040000000001,"endTime":2041.194,"body":"to be preparing to create and cultivating"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2041.194,"endTime":2046.7440000000001,"body":"resilience in our communities, because"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2041.194,"endTime":2046.7440000000001,"body":"there's no question that climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2046.7440000000001,"endTime":2050.834,"body":"shocks are going to be coming more"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2046.7440000000001,"endTime":2050.834,"body":"frequently with more severity around"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2050.834,"endTime":2056.504,"body":"the world, because we have not yet"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2050.834,"endTime":2056.504,"body":"limited the increasing concentrations"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2056.514,"endTime":2060.044,"body":"of carbon in our atmosphere, and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2056.514,"endTime":2060.044,"body":"the science is very clear on this."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2060.394,"endTime":2063.364,"body":"That means we're going to be seeing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2060.394,"endTime":2063.364,"body":"more of all of these extreme events that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2063.364,"endTime":2067.074,"body":"we have already been experiencing, and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2063.364,"endTime":2067.074,"body":"I'm sure this summer here in the global"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2067.074,"endTime":2070.384,"body":"north, we're going to see lots of them"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2067.074,"endTime":2070.384,"body":"because we're already here in the D."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2070.384,"endTime":2070.614,"body":"C."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2070.614,"endTime":2071.104,"body":"Area."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2071.124,"endTime":2074.644,"body":"It's we're like a month ahead of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2071.124,"endTime":2074.644,"body":"where we normally are in terms of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2074.644,"endTime":2076.6240000000003,"body":"temperatures and in terms of the seasons."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2077.074,"endTime":2081.694,"body":"So, during that period of time, we need"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2077.074,"endTime":2081.694,"body":"to figure out how to make our communities"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2081.704,"endTime":2084.474,"body":"more capable of withstanding the kind"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2081.704,"endTime":2084.474,"body":"of environmental shocks they're going"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2084.474,"endTime":2089.704,"body":"to experience so that they can handle"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2084.474,"endTime":2089.704,"body":"extreme heat, extreme drought, extreme"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2089.784,"endTime":2094.774,"body":"storms and flooding, but also we need to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2089.784,"endTime":2094.774,"body":"get our communities ready to withstand"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2094.774,"endTime":2098.364,"body":"it and we need to support and create"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2094.774,"endTime":2098.364,"body":"resilience in terms of social resilience."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2098.734,"endTime":2099.944,"body":"People are going to be unhoused."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2099.994,"endTime":2101.304,"body":"People are going to be displaced."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2101.524,"endTime":2104.694,"body":"The seas will rise and the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2101.524,"endTime":2104.694,"body":"storms will have an effect."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2104.704,"endTime":2107.164,"body":"There'll be many people who"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2104.704,"endTime":2107.164,"body":"won't have insurance anymore."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2107.474,"endTime":2110.344,"body":"They're all going to need support"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2107.474,"endTime":2110.344,"body":"and we need to be prepared to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2110.344,"endTime":2114.484,"body":"support them because as we know,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2110.344,"endTime":2114.484,"body":"nobody else is coming to save us."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2114.504,"endTime":2115.3740000000003,"body":"It's all up to us."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2115.464,"endTime":2117.919,"body":"Yeah, yeah"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2115.464,"endTime":2117.919,"body":"yeah, yeah, yeah Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2118.629,"endTime":2121.939,"body":"Dana, we're coming towards the end"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2118.629,"endTime":2121.939,"body":"of the podcast now, is there any"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2121.939,"endTime":2126.089,"body":"question I haven't asked that you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2121.939,"endTime":2126.089,"body":"wish I had or any aspect of this we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2126.089,"endTime":2128.619,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2126.089,"endTime":2128.619,"body":"important for people to think about?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2131.809,"endTime":2134.279,"body":"I think that, well,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2131.809,"endTime":2134.279,"body":"so here's one that's being discussed,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2134.309,"endTime":2135.259,"body":"well, it's being discussed now."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2135.259,"endTime":2138.409,"body":"Let's hope it's still being discussed"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2135.259,"endTime":2138.409,"body":"when we, when the podcast airs."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2138.696,"endTime":2143.126,"body":"There's the next COP meeting, which is"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2138.696,"endTime":2143.126,"body":"the big international meeting that is"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2143.136,"endTime":2147.156,"body":"supposed to move forward the climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2143.136,"endTime":2147.156,"body":"negotiations taking place in fall."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2147.326,"endTime":2149.386,"body":"It'll be the COP 29 meetings."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2149.734,"endTime":2153.264,"body":"So there's a, there's a question that"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2149.734,"endTime":2153.264,"body":"a lot of people are starting to discuss"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2153.264,"endTime":2158.654,"body":"about whether or not it's worth spending"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2153.264,"endTime":2158.654,"body":"money to fly to Azerbaijan to participate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2158.684,"endTime":2163.574,"body":"in climate negotiations that are being"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2158.684,"endTime":2163.574,"body":"run literally by a fossil fuel executive."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2163.8740000000003,"endTime":2168.294,"body":"And I would just say that one thing"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2163.8740000000003,"endTime":2168.294,"body":"that I have said for the past couple of"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2168.294,"endTime":2172.619,"body":"years, but it is even more important this"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2168.294,"endTime":2172.619,"body":"year is that people should not be going."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2172.619,"endTime":2176.169,"body":"There's a call now for companies not to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2172.619,"endTime":2176.169,"body":"go, particularly companies that care about"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2176.169,"endTime":2180.699,"body":"climate change and are working to phase"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2176.169,"endTime":2180.699,"body":"out fossil fuels to move to net zero,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2180.959,"endTime":2185.829,"body":"but other also NGOs, like there is no"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2180.959,"endTime":2185.829,"body":"reason for NGOs to fly around the world,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2185.829,"endTime":2191.099,"body":"to be isolated away from the climate"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2185.829,"endTime":2191.099,"body":"negotiations in a petrol state where"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2191.109,"endTime":2194.709,"body":"they are going to do whatever they do"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2191.109,"endTime":2194.709,"body":"and not listen to NGOs and civil society."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2194.709,"endTime":2197.539,"body":"So that's one thing I would just"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2194.709,"endTime":2197.539,"body":"say that we haven't talked about."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2197.8940000000002,"endTime":2202.844,"body":"And that is going to be an increasingly"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2197.8940000000002,"endTime":2202.844,"body":"big call and big debate as we"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2202.844,"endTime":2206.464,"body":"get closer and closer to the next"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2202.844,"endTime":2206.464,"body":"round of the climate negotiations"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2206.464,"endTime":2207.3540000000003,"body":"that will be taking place."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2207.754,"endTime":2208.164,"body":"Fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2208.544,"endTime":2209.004,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2209.084,"endTime":2209.514,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2209.8940000000002,"endTime":2210.274,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2210.634,"endTime":2214.454,"body":"Dana, if people would like to know more"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2210.634,"endTime":2214.454,"body":"about yourself or any of the things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2214.454,"endTime":2217.284,"body":"we discussed on the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2214.454,"endTime":2217.284,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2218.967,"endTime":2220.797,"body":"If you want to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2218.967,"endTime":2220.797,"body":"know more about me, come to"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2220.797,"endTime":2222.797,"body":"my website, it's danarfisher."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2222.837,"endTime":2223.317,"body":"com."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2223.687,"endTime":2225.147,"body":"That's Fisher without a C."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2225.5570000000002,"endTime":2231.577,"body":"I also am very active on LinkedIn, Blue"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2225.5570000000002,"endTime":2231.577,"body":"Sky, Instagram, and I'm even on TikTok."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2232.297,"endTime":2236.697,"body":"On Instagram, I am the, I am apocalyptic"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2232.297,"endTime":2236.697,"body":"optimist because that is what I am."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2236.697,"endTime":2238.3070000000002,"body":"I'm an apocalyptic optimist."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2238.8070000000002,"endTime":2242.0370000000003,"body":"But I am moving more and more"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2238.8070000000002,"endTime":2242.0370000000003,"body":"away from Twitter slash X."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2242.0370000000003,"endTime":2243.747,"body":"So don't look for me there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2243.997,"endTime":2244.607,"body":"Similar."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2244.837,"endTime":2246.027,"body":"Oh, and"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2244.837,"endTime":2246.027,"body":"the book is available."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2246.027,"endTime":2248.107,"body":"In fact, I so the book is just coming out."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2248.207,"endTime":2251.397,"body":"The audio book will be out by the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2248.207,"endTime":2251.397,"body":"time the podcast airs, but so the"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2251.397,"endTime":2255.0170000000003,"body":"book is available and definitely check"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2251.397,"endTime":2255.0170000000003,"body":"out the book because there are lots,"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2255.117,"endTime":2256.617,"body":"there's lots more to see and read."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2256.7870000000003,"endTime":2258.047,"body":"Available"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2256.7870000000003,"endTime":2258.047,"body":"on Amazon, I'm guessing."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2259.597,"endTime":2260.847,"body":"It's available on Amazon."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2260.847,"endTime":2263.0170000000003,"body":"It's available through"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2260.847,"endTime":2263.0170000000003,"body":"independent bookstores."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2263.217,"endTime":2266.747,"body":"It's available wherever"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2263.217,"endTime":2266.747,"body":"you get your podcasts."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2266.747,"endTime":2271.097,"body":"It's available anywhere you get"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2266.747,"endTime":2271.097,"body":"your digital or audio books as well"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2271.097,"endTime":2271.427,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2271.5570000000002,"endTime":2272.027,"body":"Superb."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2272.077,"endTime":2272.347,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2272.667,"endTime":2273.667,"body":"Dana, that's been fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2273.667,"endTime":2275.347,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2273.667,"endTime":2275.347,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2276.657,"endTime":2278.127,"body":"Thank you"},{"speaker":"Dana R Fisher","startTime":2276.657,"endTime":2278.127,"body":"so much for having me, Tom."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2278.7110000000002,"endTime":2280.581,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2278.7110000000002,"endTime":2280.581,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2281.301,"endTime":2282.411,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2283.271,"endTime":2287.4210000000003,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2283.271,"endTime":2287.4210000000003,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2287.431,"endTime":2291.341,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2291.591,"endTime":2295.071,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2295.641,"endTime":2299.381,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2295.641,"endTime":2299.381,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2299.401,"endTime":2303.881,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2299.401,"endTime":2303.881,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2304.511,"endTime":2307.471,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2304.511,"endTime":2307.471,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2307.6710000000003,"endTime":2310.201,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2307.6710000000003,"endTime":2310.201,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2311.291,"endTime":2311.741,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2312.411,"endTime":2313.331,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}