{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3.645,"endTime":9.585,"body":"I think I would like to first preface"},{"startTime":3.645,"endTime":9.585,"body":"by saying that there's a lot that cities"},{"startTime":9.585,"endTime":11.995,"body":"can do to manage traffic and pollution."},{"startTime":12.745,"endTime":17.375,"body":"And unfortunately, the things that"},{"startTime":12.745,"endTime":17.375,"body":"are the most effective tend to be"},{"startTime":17.375,"endTime":19.445,"body":"the most politically challenging."},{"startTime":19.797,"endTime":23.377,"body":"Good morning, good afternoon, or good"},{"startTime":19.797,"endTime":23.377,"body":"evening, wherever you are in the world."},{"startTime":23.707,"endTime":27.417,"body":"This is the Climate Confident"},{"startTime":23.707,"endTime":27.417,"body":"podcast, the number one podcast"},{"startTime":27.567,"endTime":31.337,"body":"showcasing best practices in climate"},{"startTime":27.567,"endTime":31.337,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"startTime":31.767,"endTime":33.707,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"startTime":33.867,"endTime":37.637,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"startTime":33.867,"endTime":37.637,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice"},{"startTime":37.787,"endTime":40.147,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"startTime":40.825,"endTime":41.335,"body":"Hi, everyone."},{"startTime":41.335,"endTime":45.055,"body":"Welcome to episode 179 of the"},{"startTime":41.335,"endTime":45.055,"body":"Climate Confident podcast."},{"startTime":45.295,"endTime":49.555,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery, and before we"},{"startTime":45.295,"endTime":49.555,"body":"kick off today's show, I want to take a"},{"startTime":49.555,"endTime":54.925,"body":"brief moment to express my gratitude to"},{"startTime":49.555,"endTime":54.925,"body":"all of this podcast's amazing supporters."},{"startTime":55.465,"endTime":59.485,"body":"Your support has been instrumental in"},{"startTime":55.465,"endTime":59.485,"body":"keeping the podcast going, and I'm really"},{"startTime":59.485,"endTime":61.285,"body":"grateful for each and every one of you."},{"startTime":62.245,"endTime":65.455,"body":"If you're not already a supporter, I'd"},{"startTime":62.245,"endTime":65.455,"body":"like to encourage you to consider joining"},{"startTime":65.455,"endTime":68.995,"body":"our community like-minded individuals"},{"startTime":65.455,"endTime":68.995,"body":"who are passionate about climate."},{"startTime":69.745,"endTime":73.645,"body":"Supporting the podcast is easy and"},{"startTime":69.745,"endTime":73.645,"body":"affordable with option starting as low"},{"startTime":73.645,"endTime":75.565,"body":"as just three euros or dollars a month."},{"startTime":75.985,"endTime":78.925,"body":"That's less than the cost of a"},{"startTime":75.985,"endTime":78.925,"body":"cup of coffee and your support"},{"startTime":79.045,"endTime":81.775,"body":"would make a huge difference in"},{"startTime":79.045,"endTime":81.775,"body":"keeping the show going strong."},{"startTime":82.615,"endTime":85.495,"body":"To become a supporter, simply click"},{"startTime":82.615,"endTime":85.495,"body":"on the supporting and the show"},{"startTime":85.495,"endTime":91.315,"body":"notes of this, or any episode or"},{"startTime":85.495,"endTime":91.315,"body":"visit tiny url.com/climate pod."},{"startTime":92.845,"endTime":93.925,"body":"Now in today's episode."},{"startTime":94.315,"endTime":97.045,"body":"I'm talking to Lina from climate works."},{"startTime":97.045,"endTime":99.085,"body":"I'm going to be talking all things EV."},{"startTime":99.945,"endTime":104.595,"body":"And in coming weeks, I'll be talking to"},{"startTime":99.945,"endTime":104.595,"body":"Larry Seltzer from the conservation fund."},{"startTime":105.045,"endTime":109.985,"body":"Elizabeth Thompson from visions"},{"startTime":105.045,"endTime":109.985,"body":"2030, and Gagen Dillon from Synop."},{"startTime":110.235,"endTime":112.185,"body":"So some great episodes"},{"startTime":110.235,"endTime":112.185,"body":"there to look forward to."},{"startTime":112.605,"endTime":114.645,"body":"Do not touch that dial."},{"startTime":116.115,"endTime":116.475,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":116.475,"endTime":117.975,"body":"Now back to today's episode."},{"startTime":118.325,"endTime":120.065,"body":"And I mentioned, I've talking to Lina."},{"startTime":120.515,"endTime":122.255,"body":"Lina welcome to the podcast."},{"startTime":122.255,"endTime":123.785,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"startTime":124.639,"endTime":125.389,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":125.399,"endTime":127.039,"body":"Thank you so much for having me, Tom."},{"startTime":127.119,"endTime":128.799,"body":"I am Lina Fedirko."},{"startTime":129.219,"endTime":132.839,"body":"I'm an Associate Director on"},{"startTime":129.219,"endTime":132.839,"body":"the Road Transportation team"},{"startTime":132.919,"endTime":134.299,"body":"at Climate Works Foundation."},{"startTime":134.946,"endTime":139.359,"body":"Here at Climate Works, we focus a lot"},{"startTime":134.946,"endTime":139.359,"body":"on global decarbonization of greenhouse"},{"startTime":139.359,"endTime":142.249,"body":"gas emissions across energy sectors."},{"startTime":142.709,"endTime":148.544,"body":"I specifically working on the road"},{"startTime":142.709,"endTime":148.544,"body":"transportation team have spent a lot"},{"startTime":148.544,"endTime":153.264,"body":"of years focusing on decarbonizing"},{"startTime":148.544,"endTime":153.264,"body":"road transportation across all modes."},{"startTime":153.914,"endTime":160.874,"body":"And nowadays I lead two of our initiatives"},{"startTime":153.914,"endTime":160.874,"body":"here at Climate Works, one focusing on EV"},{"startTime":160.894,"endTime":164.204,"body":"battery supply chain sustainability angle."},{"startTime":164.464,"endTime":168.334,"body":"And then the other one focusing on"},{"startTime":164.464,"endTime":168.334,"body":"minerals for the energy transition,"},{"startTime":168.834,"endTime":173.919,"body":"which means that nowadays, I spend a lot"},{"startTime":168.834,"endTime":173.919,"body":"of my time thinking about the physical"},{"startTime":173.929,"endTime":177.259,"body":"material needs of the energy transition."},{"startTime":177.869,"endTime":181.319,"body":"And the last thing I would say is"},{"startTime":177.869,"endTime":181.319,"body":"that my backgrounds in transportation"},{"startTime":181.319,"endTime":187.769,"body":"policy and a lot of my job entails"},{"startTime":181.319,"endTime":187.769,"body":"talking and learning from partners"},{"startTime":187.819,"endTime":190.009,"body":"across the globe about these issues."},{"startTime":190.899,"endTime":191.429,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":191.429,"endTime":193.659,"body":"And how did you get into all this?"},{"startTime":195.112,"endTime":196.792,"body":"Oof, really good question."},{"startTime":197.022,"endTime":201.932,"body":"I actually, This is a, this is a"},{"startTime":197.022,"endTime":201.932,"body":"bit of a long story, but I'll, I'll"},{"startTime":201.932,"endTime":203.912,"body":"give you the abbreviated version."},{"startTime":204.442,"endTime":209.182,"body":"I started my, my journey"},{"startTime":204.442,"endTime":209.182,"body":"in the art world, actually."},{"startTime":209.232,"endTime":212.012,"body":"I studied design for undergrad, obviously."},{"startTime":214.192,"endTime":221.672,"body":"And I very quickly became discouraged with"},{"startTime":214.192,"endTime":221.672,"body":"the material use that I saw across the"},{"startTime":221.672,"endTime":226.302,"body":"design spaces and wanted to do something"},{"startTime":221.672,"endTime":226.302,"body":"different and better for the world."},{"startTime":226.662,"endTime":231.132,"body":"And so I had this idea to to go"},{"startTime":226.662,"endTime":231.132,"body":"to grad school for policy, because"},{"startTime":231.132,"endTime":235.262,"body":"I thought that if I had a policy"},{"startTime":231.132,"endTime":235.262,"body":"degree, I would be able to tell these"},{"startTime":235.262,"endTime":240.562,"body":"design companies how to design better"},{"startTime":235.262,"endTime":240.562,"body":"products, how to think about designing"},{"startTime":240.582,"endTime":242.742,"body":"not for waste, but for recycling."},{"startTime":243.452,"endTime":248.662,"body":"And my one of my very first courses"},{"startTime":243.452,"endTime":248.662,"body":"in grad school was on climate change."},{"startTime":249.022,"endTime":251.882,"body":"And then I was like, okay, there's"},{"startTime":249.022,"endTime":251.882,"body":"nothing else more important that I"},{"startTime":251.882,"endTime":256.082,"body":"could be doing other than climate"},{"startTime":251.882,"endTime":256.082,"body":"climate change kind of policy."},{"startTime":256.122,"endTime":260.032,"body":"And it sort of changed the"},{"startTime":256.122,"endTime":260.032,"body":"trajectory of my life and work."},{"startTime":260.092,"endTime":264.992,"body":"And I got into transportation policy"},{"startTime":260.092,"endTime":264.992,"body":"through a mentor of mine at grad school"},{"startTime":265.032,"endTime":268.722,"body":"that was very passionate about this"},{"startTime":265.032,"endTime":268.722,"body":"topic and sort of pulled me in and"},{"startTime":268.722,"endTime":272.632,"body":"let me see the, the wonders of all the"},{"startTime":268.722,"endTime":272.632,"body":"modes and what you could do with them."},{"startTime":274.017,"endTime":275.287,"body":"Nice, nice, nice."},{"startTime":275.687,"endTime":280.147,"body":"And in the transportation area,"},{"startTime":275.687,"endTime":280.147,"body":"it's, I mean, it's a very broad area."},{"startTime":280.547,"endTime":285.067,"body":"Is there any particular modes of"},{"startTime":280.547,"endTime":285.067,"body":"transportation that you're looking at?"},{"startTime":285.067,"endTime":287.377,"body":"Are you looking across all"},{"startTime":285.067,"endTime":287.377,"body":"modes of transportation?"},{"startTime":289.547,"endTime":290.497,"body":"Great question."},{"startTime":290.767,"endTime":297.501,"body":"So my expertise in the area actually"},{"startTime":290.767,"endTime":297.501,"body":"started looking exclusively at urban"},{"startTime":297.501,"endTime":304.031,"body":"transportation and urban policy that"},{"startTime":297.501,"endTime":304.031,"body":"supports high occupancy movement"},{"startTime":304.051,"endTime":306.141,"body":"of people and goods across cities."},{"startTime":306.501,"endTime":311.561,"body":"And so that really focused"},{"startTime":306.501,"endTime":311.561,"body":"on public transportation non"},{"startTime":311.561,"endTime":313.451,"body":"motorized modes of transportation."},{"startTime":313.511,"endTime":318.321,"body":"It also looked into land use,"},{"startTime":313.511,"endTime":318.321,"body":"the way land use can be used for"},{"startTime":318.371,"endTime":321.681,"body":"public transportation systems to"},{"startTime":318.371,"endTime":321.681,"body":"be profitable, so on and so forth."},{"startTime":322.531,"endTime":327.211,"body":"I did a little bit of work on that in New"},{"startTime":322.531,"endTime":327.211,"body":"York, in New York area, and then it wasn't"},{"startTime":327.211,"endTime":332.646,"body":"until I started working with ClimateWorks,"},{"startTime":327.211,"endTime":332.646,"body":"the road transportation team, that I"},{"startTime":332.646,"endTime":340.536,"body":"started to broaden my sort of expertise"},{"startTime":332.646,"endTime":340.536,"body":"and, and purview in looking into national"},{"startTime":340.536,"endTime":342.996,"body":"level and global transportation policy."},{"startTime":343.386,"endTime":349.476,"body":"And so once I switched from more"},{"startTime":343.386,"endTime":349.476,"body":"local to state, and national level, I"},{"startTime":349.476,"endTime":354.756,"body":"really started to look into policies"},{"startTime":349.476,"endTime":354.756,"body":"that would influence the shift from"},{"startTime":354.816,"endTime":358.106,"body":"internal combustion vehicles to EVs."},{"startTime":358.576,"endTime":362.886,"body":"We also looked into did a lot of work"},{"startTime":358.576,"endTime":362.886,"body":"looking into fuel efficiency standards"},{"startTime":362.886,"endTime":367.486,"body":"and sort of how do we, how do we get"},{"startTime":362.886,"endTime":367.486,"body":"the transportation modes off of oil?"},{"startTime":368.241,"endTime":375.971,"body":"And so, because the largest portion of"},{"startTime":368.241,"endTime":375.971,"body":"road transportation emissions comes from"},{"startTime":376.201,"endTime":382.241,"body":"trucks and passenger light duty vehicles,"},{"startTime":376.201,"endTime":382.241,"body":"it was sort of the main focus that we've"},{"startTime":382.241,"endTime":384.381,"body":"had on the road transportation team."},{"startTime":384.861,"endTime":390.19,"body":"Over the years we have also engaged in"},{"startTime":384.861,"endTime":390.19,"body":"looking at decarbonisation of public"},{"startTime":390.21,"endTime":393.05,"body":"transportation, non motorized modes."},{"startTime":393.09,"endTime":397.34,"body":"And so we've really had our hands"},{"startTime":393.09,"endTime":397.34,"body":"in across the modes, but I would"},{"startTime":397.34,"endTime":402.98,"body":"say the focus has been more where"},{"startTime":397.34,"endTime":402.98,"body":"there's more emissions to be saved."},{"startTime":403.98,"endTime":404.4,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":404.79,"endTime":411.5,"body":"But not for example shipping, not"},{"startTime":404.79,"endTime":411.5,"body":"aviation not rails, specifically road."},{"startTime":412.49,"endTime":414.06,"body":"So very good question."},{"startTime":414.16,"endTime":418.36,"body":"I should have actually explained"},{"startTime":414.16,"endTime":418.36,"body":"that we have two other team"},{"startTime":418.39,"endTime":419.9,"body":"that cover the other modes."},{"startTime":419.94,"endTime":421.05,"body":"So we cover land."},{"startTime":421.295,"endTime":426.545,"body":"We have a team, an aviation team"},{"startTime":421.295,"endTime":426.545,"body":"that covers air travel, and we also"},{"startTime":426.545,"endTime":431.885,"body":"have a maritime shipping team that"},{"startTime":426.545,"endTime":431.885,"body":"specifically looks into decarbonizing"},{"startTime":431.935,"endTime":435.285,"body":"ports, ships, and all of those things."},{"startTime":436.752,"endTime":437.092,"body":"So."},{"startTime":437.852,"endTime":441.482,"body":"Lina, cities around the world"},{"startTime":437.852,"endTime":441.482,"body":"are struggling with traffic"},{"startTime":441.532,"endTime":442.962,"body":"congestion and pollution."},{"startTime":443.582,"endTime":448.302,"body":"What are some innovative"},{"startTime":443.582,"endTime":448.302,"body":"solutions for urban mobility that"},{"startTime":448.302,"endTime":450.692,"body":"you've seen have a real impact?"},{"startTime":452.086,"endTime":452.986,"body":"Great question."},{"startTime":453.206,"endTime":459.146,"body":"I think I would like to first preface"},{"startTime":453.206,"endTime":459.146,"body":"by saying that there's a lot that cities"},{"startTime":459.146,"endTime":461.556,"body":"can do to manage traffic and pollution."},{"startTime":462.306,"endTime":466.936,"body":"And unfortunately, the things that"},{"startTime":462.306,"endTime":466.936,"body":"are the most effective tend to be"},{"startTime":466.936,"endTime":469.006,"body":"the most politically challenging."},{"startTime":469.746,"endTime":470.346,"body":"So,"},{"startTime":470.486,"endTime":472.386,"body":"Kathy Hochul has seen"},{"startTime":470.486,"endTime":472.386,"body":"that recently, hasn't she?"},{"startTime":472.386,"endTime":473.642,"body":"Mm"},{"startTime":473.756,"endTime":474.186,"body":"yes."},{"startTime":474.899,"endTime":476.156,"body":"Mm"},{"startTime":476.941,"endTime":480.851,"body":"on the New York politics of"},{"startTime":476.941,"endTime":480.851,"body":"congestion pricing, which is"},{"startTime":481.191,"endTime":483.211,"body":"so, so, so disappointing to see."},{"startTime":483.661,"endTime":488.671,"body":"And that is exactly the policy lever"},{"startTime":483.661,"endTime":488.671,"body":"that I was going to speak about."},{"startTime":488.931,"endTime":493.471,"body":"One of the most effective ways to"},{"startTime":488.931,"endTime":493.471,"body":"manage traffic pollution, to incentivize"},{"startTime":495.161,"endTime":501.846,"body":"public transport use, and to even re"},{"startTime":495.161,"endTime":501.846,"body":"shift funding going more to expand"},{"startTime":501.856,"endTime":506.356,"body":"public transportation further can"},{"startTime":501.856,"endTime":506.356,"body":"all be accomplished by congestion"},{"startTime":506.356,"endTime":511.416,"body":"pricing or low emission zone as"},{"startTime":506.356,"endTime":511.416,"body":"you've seen in places like London."},{"startTime":512.501,"endTime":518.211,"body":"As we've seen both in London and places"},{"startTime":512.501,"endTime":518.211,"body":"that have tried to implement  similar"},{"startTime":518.211,"endTime":520.201,"body":"policies, it's incredibly difficult."},{"startTime":520.821,"endTime":525.841,"body":"I have a kind of a, a, a quick side"},{"startTime":520.821,"endTime":525.841,"body":"anecdote to share, which is that the"},{"startTime":525.841,"endTime":529.331,"body":"first, I don't know if many people know"},{"startTime":525.841,"endTime":529.331,"body":"this, probably New Yorkers do, but the,"},{"startTime":529.841,"endTime":535.241,"body":"the very first time congestion pricing was"},{"startTime":529.841,"endTime":535.241,"body":"introduced in New York City was in 2007."},{"startTime":536.116,"endTime":536.486,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":536.486,"endTime":538.536,"body":"2007, it was introduced."},{"startTime":538.636,"endTime":543.996,"body":"They tried to get it passed"},{"startTime":538.636,"endTime":543.996,"body":"through state government in 2009."},{"startTime":544.066,"endTime":544.896,"body":"It failed."},{"startTime":544.986,"endTime":546.206,"body":"It didn't get all the votes."},{"startTime":546.716,"endTime":550.436,"body":"And when I was in grad school, a"},{"startTime":546.716,"endTime":550.436,"body":"few subsequent subsequent years"},{"startTime":550.466,"endTime":552.756,"body":"afterwards, I studied why it failed."},{"startTime":553.306,"endTime":560.386,"body":"So it's so, so deeply disappointing for"},{"startTime":553.306,"endTime":560.386,"body":"me to see that now, when it finally passed"},{"startTime":560.496,"endTime":566.826,"body":"a decade later, it's been stalled yet"},{"startTime":560.496,"endTime":566.826,"body":"again, and my sense is that it's largely"},{"startTime":566.826,"endTime":570.866,"body":"due to political reasons because it's"},{"startTime":566.826,"endTime":570.866,"body":"just, you know, it's just difficult."},{"startTime":571.566,"endTime":576.616,"body":"One other piece that I wanted to share"},{"startTime":571.566,"endTime":576.616,"body":"about what, what are kind of some"},{"startTime":576.616,"endTime":580.666,"body":"urban mobility measures that cities can"},{"startTime":576.616,"endTime":580.666,"body":"undertake and somes that are testing"},{"startTime":580.666,"endTime":585.226,"body":"them are 1 is a zero emission zone."},{"startTime":586.126,"endTime":587.836,"body":"So this is something that L."},{"startTime":587.836,"endTime":587.956,"body":"A."},{"startTime":587.966,"endTime":592.406,"body":"has been testing and a couple of other"},{"startTime":587.966,"endTime":592.406,"body":"cities over the last several years."},{"startTime":592.906,"endTime":596.686,"body":"So the goal of a low, of a, either"},{"startTime":592.906,"endTime":596.686,"body":"a low emission or a zero emission"},{"startTime":596.686,"endTime":601.336,"body":"zone is that vehicles that are zero"},{"startTime":596.686,"endTime":601.336,"body":"emission that don't have tailpipes"},{"startTime":601.766,"endTime":604.346,"body":"get preferential access into the zone."},{"startTime":604.876,"endTime":611.716,"body":"And by doing so, you sort of, first of all"},{"startTime":604.876,"endTime":611.716,"body":"start with a zone where the air quality"},{"startTime":611.756,"endTime":616.116,"body":"can see rapid improvements over time, and"},{"startTime":611.756,"endTime":616.116,"body":"then you could sort of build that zone"},{"startTime":616.156,"endTime":619.626,"body":"to expand to greater areas in the city."},{"startTime":620.216,"endTime":627.306,"body":"You are also signaling to commercial"},{"startTime":620.216,"endTime":627.306,"body":"delivery vehicles that they, you're"},{"startTime":627.316,"endTime":631.636,"body":"signaling to the companies that operate"},{"startTime":627.316,"endTime":631.636,"body":"commercial delivery vehicles, that they"},{"startTime":631.636,"endTime":636.036,"body":"need to be  electrifying in order to"},{"startTime":631.636,"endTime":636.036,"body":"have preferential access, curb access"},{"startTime":636.256,"endTime":640.566,"body":"to continue to deliver, their goods and"},{"startTime":636.256,"endTime":640.566,"body":"to maintain sort of business as usual."},{"startTime":641.316,"endTime":646.496,"body":"You are also signaling to other city"},{"startTime":641.316,"endTime":646.496,"body":"departments like the transportation"},{"startTime":646.496,"endTime":652.566,"body":"department that they need to be"},{"startTime":646.496,"endTime":652.566,"body":"thinking about a, a plan to transition"},{"startTime":652.586,"endTime":655.566,"body":"their buses to an electrified fleet."},{"startTime":656.176,"endTime":659.036,"body":"You're also creating an opportunity."},{"startTime":659.236,"endTime":664.696,"body":"For for citizens that are considering"},{"startTime":659.236,"endTime":664.696,"body":"purchasing vehicles or are kind of"},{"startTime":664.706,"endTime":669.786,"body":"weighing the options on the market out"},{"startTime":664.706,"endTime":669.786,"body":"there to think twice about just buying"},{"startTime":669.796,"endTime":675.249,"body":"another  internal combustion vehicle"},{"startTime":669.796,"endTime":675.249,"body":"and to start to kind of subliminally"},{"startTime":675.259,"endTime":679.889,"body":"send them messages about what kind"},{"startTime":675.259,"endTime":679.889,"body":"of benefits they have to gain if they"},{"startTime":679.889,"endTime":682.119,"body":"switch over to a non polluting vehicle."},{"startTime":682.549,"endTime":690.439,"body":"And lastly, it is a great way to"},{"startTime":682.549,"endTime":690.439,"body":"also build out and reinforce the,"},{"startTime":690.589,"endTime":697.909,"body":"the, the flexibility of getting"},{"startTime":690.589,"endTime":697.909,"body":"around by bikes or e scooters or"},{"startTime":697.929,"endTime":702.549,"body":"kind of a a smaller motorized or"},{"startTime":697.929,"endTime":702.549,"body":"non motorized vehicles through that."},{"startTime":703.444,"endTime":707.564,"body":"Okay, and for these low emission"},{"startTime":703.444,"endTime":707.564,"body":"zones, I mean, I know the one in London"},{"startTime":707.564,"endTime":711.714,"body":"quite well that that's all done with"},{"startTime":707.564,"endTime":711.714,"body":"cameras and people are charged the,"},{"startTime":711.724,"endTime":713.974,"body":"the ultra low emissions zone ULEZ."},{"startTime":714.504,"endTime":718.594,"body":"For other cities that are"},{"startTime":714.504,"endTime":718.594,"body":"starting this out, do they go"},{"startTime":718.594,"endTime":721.394,"body":"down a similar technological"},{"startTime":718.594,"endTime":721.394,"body":"route with cameras everywhere?"},{"startTime":721.394,"endTime":724.444,"body":"Or is there, does it"},{"startTime":721.394,"endTime":724.444,"body":"depend from city to city?"},{"startTime":724.644,"endTime":726.044,"body":"You know, how is it implemented?"},{"startTime":726.424,"endTime":728.044,"body":"Are there always charges involved?"},{"startTime":728.074,"endTime":728.654,"body":"That kind of thing."},{"startTime":731.179,"endTime":738.099,"body":"So I'm, I do not have the technical"},{"startTime":731.179,"endTime":738.099,"body":"deep expertise on what are the best ways"},{"startTime":738.149,"endTime":740.779,"body":"to implement the congestion pricing."},{"startTime":741.769,"endTime":746.309,"body":"So from my point of view, I think"},{"startTime":741.769,"endTime":746.309,"body":"cameras with whatever's work,"},{"startTime":746.349,"endTime":749.369,"body":"whatever has been done in London"},{"startTime":746.349,"endTime":749.369,"body":"seems to be working quite well."},{"startTime":749.729,"endTime":752.229,"body":"And I think cities should be"},{"startTime":749.729,"endTime":752.229,"body":"looking to replicate that."},{"startTime":752.729,"endTime":755.559,"body":"Basically not much more to"},{"startTime":752.729,"endTime":755.559,"body":"say on that particular piece."},{"startTime":756.209,"endTime":759.729,"body":"In terms of fees, though, I do"},{"startTime":756.209,"endTime":759.729,"body":"have, I do have an opinion there."},{"startTime":760.089,"endTime":766.614,"body":"And that is congestion pricing"},{"startTime":760.089,"endTime":766.614,"body":"is a great way to signal to the"},{"startTime":766.914,"endTime":774.214,"body":"market about the need to transition"},{"startTime":766.914,"endTime":774.214,"body":"off of oil based transportation"},{"startTime":774.634,"endTime":776.574,"body":"by differentiating the fees."},{"startTime":776.674,"endTime":778.974,"body":"So this is something that"},{"startTime":776.674,"endTime":778.974,"body":"London does quite well."},{"startTime":779.444,"endTime":784.344,"body":"It was not on queue to be adopted by"},{"startTime":779.444,"endTime":784.344,"body":"the New York congestion pricing, but"},{"startTime":784.344,"endTime":788.474,"body":"essentially what you're doing is you're"},{"startTime":784.344,"endTime":788.474,"body":"charging everybody and folks that are"},{"startTime":788.474,"endTime":791.264,"body":"using electric vehicle get charged less."},{"startTime":791.914,"endTime":792.204,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":792.954,"endTime":793.314,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":793.634,"endTime":793.884,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":794.404,"endTime":799.034,"body":"I know there's a low emission"},{"startTime":794.404,"endTime":799.034,"body":"zone here in Seville where I live."},{"startTime":799.474,"endTime":805.094,"body":"And it has been implemented very recently"},{"startTime":799.474,"endTime":805.094,"body":"in the last year, I want to think."},{"startTime":805.614,"endTime":805.984,"body":"But."},{"startTime":806.769,"endTime":807.889,"body":"nobody's been told about it."},{"startTime":808.969,"endTime":813.729,"body":"It shows up on your GPS when you're"},{"startTime":808.969,"endTime":813.729,"body":"driving into the city and it's only"},{"startTime":813.739,"endTime":817.949,"body":"a particular part of the city, which"},{"startTime":813.739,"endTime":817.949,"body":"is like an industrial zone where"},{"startTime":818.859,"endTime":821.839,"body":"very few people go except to go to"},{"startTime":818.859,"endTime":821.839,"body":"work at, you know, 8 in the morning,"},{"startTime":821.839,"endTime":824.809,"body":"they go home and 4 in the afternoon"},{"startTime":821.839,"endTime":824.809,"body":"or whatever the times they work are."},{"startTime":825.334,"endTime":830.814,"body":"And it's, I think it was just rolled"},{"startTime":825.334,"endTime":830.814,"body":"out to, to say, yeah, we've got a low"},{"startTime":830.814,"endTime":834.794,"body":"emissions zone because the way it has"},{"startTime":830.814,"endTime":834.794,"body":"been rolled out and implemented means"},{"startTime":834.794,"endTime":837.314,"body":"it's having zero effect on emissions."},{"startTime":837.344,"endTime":838.854,"body":"I, I would have to suspect."},{"startTime":839.174,"endTime":842.574,"body":"It's, it's low emissions zone"},{"startTime":839.174,"endTime":842.574,"body":"when people are not working there"},{"startTime":842.574,"endTime":843.924,"body":"and it's not a residential area."},{"startTime":843.924,"endTime":845.444,"body":"So people only go there to work."},{"startTime":845.984,"endTime":851.464,"body":"So it, it's, I think, I think they"},{"startTime":845.984,"endTime":851.464,"body":"did it to tick a box somewhere."},{"startTime":852.234,"endTime":852.544,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":854.364,"endTime":856.134,"body":"Its, it could be of things."},{"startTime":856.154,"endTime":861.784,"body":"I think what I've seen from the few"},{"startTime":856.154,"endTime":861.784,"body":"cities that I've spoken with or have"},{"startTime":861.804,"endTime":866.864,"body":"observed and trying to adopt low emission"},{"startTime":861.804,"endTime":866.864,"body":"zone, I know that it's a journey."},{"startTime":867.264,"endTime":871.754,"body":"And a lot of cities actually in the U"},{"startTime":867.264,"endTime":871.754,"body":"S I'm not sure about Europe are also"},{"startTime":871.754,"endTime":873.894,"body":"struggling with what would you call it?"},{"startTime":873.954,"endTime":881.514,"body":"Like a a legal mandate to be able"},{"startTime":873.954,"endTime":881.514,"body":"to regulate entry to specific zones"},{"startTime":881.514,"endTime":883.224,"body":"in the city based on fuel type."},{"startTime":883.684,"endTime":887.644,"body":"So that has actually prohibited"},{"startTime":883.684,"endTime":887.644,"body":"a number of cities to try to"},{"startTime":887.644,"endTime":889.664,"body":"even pilot a zero emission zone."},{"startTime":890.074,"endTime":896.009,"body":"What I suspect in the case of Sevilla"},{"startTime":890.074,"endTime":896.009,"body":"is they are It's probably a kind of"},{"startTime":896.009,"endTime":900.009,"body":"a, a two year process, you know, they"},{"startTime":896.009,"endTime":900.009,"body":"launched and now there's going to be a"},{"startTime":900.009,"endTime":904.549,"body":"series of things that they're going to"},{"startTime":900.009,"endTime":904.549,"body":"do to tinker with what they've done."},{"startTime":904.569,"endTime":908.239,"body":"And then, you know, it sort of"},{"startTime":904.569,"endTime":908.239,"body":"has, has to have phases, right?"},{"startTime":908.239,"endTime":915.179,"body":"Because otherwise you you can inevitably"},{"startTime":908.239,"endTime":915.179,"body":"shock the system in a way that would lead"},{"startTime":915.179,"endTime":920.529,"body":"to, you know, a huge pushback by citizens"},{"startTime":915.179,"endTime":920.529,"body":"or industry or, you know, commercial"},{"startTime":920.529,"endTime":922.359,"body":"vehicles that are trying to access that."},{"startTime":922.919,"endTime":925.049,"body":"So maybe, maybe you'll"},{"startTime":922.919,"endTime":925.049,"body":"be hearing about it."},{"startTime":925.479,"endTime":931.039,"body":"Yeah, hopefully, hopefully it improves"},{"startTime":925.479,"endTime":931.039,"body":"because well, let me ask you, London"},{"startTime":931.039,"endTime":934.769,"body":"seems to be quite successful and"},{"startTime":931.039,"endTime":934.769,"body":"Stockholm as well in their rollouts,"},{"startTime":935.499,"endTime":937.359,"body":"but that's just my impression."},{"startTime":937.369,"endTime":941.599,"body":"Do you have any actual numbers or data"},{"startTime":937.369,"endTime":941.599,"body":"around successful rollouts in any city?"},{"startTime":943.899,"endTime":944.749,"body":"Not at hand."},{"startTime":944.929,"endTime":947.099,"body":"I don't have hard data on these at hand."},{"startTime":948.429,"endTime":948.809,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":949.399,"endTime":957.229,"body":"I will say kind of a tidbit information"},{"startTime":949.399,"endTime":957.229,"body":"that there are, so there is data about"},{"startTime":957.259,"endTime":963.539,"body":"air quality improvements in London,"},{"startTime":957.259,"endTime":963.539,"body":"and that is how the advocates there"},{"startTime":963.549,"endTime":969.079,"body":"have been able to secure an expansion"},{"startTime":963.549,"endTime":969.079,"body":"of the ultra low emission zone."},{"startTime":969.759,"endTime":971.679,"body":"So that was, so that was the initial zone."},{"startTime":971.699,"endTime":976.889,"body":"There was one expansion and then a"},{"startTime":971.699,"endTime":976.889,"body":"few years ago they went after a third"},{"startTime":976.899,"endTime":981.199,"body":"expansion of the zone, which was,"},{"startTime":976.899,"endTime":981.199,"body":"which proved to be the most challenging"},{"startTime":981.969,"endTime":984.239,"body":"despite the air quality improvements."},{"startTime":984.309,"endTime":988.479,"body":"And that, that's where we go back"},{"startTime":984.309,"endTime":988.479,"body":"into, you know, the political will and"},{"startTime":988.479,"endTime":993.454,"body":"kind of making sure that the citizens"},{"startTime":988.479,"endTime":993.454,"body":"understand how they would benefit"},{"startTime":993.464,"endTime":998.184,"body":"from such an, from such a policy that"},{"startTime":993.464,"endTime":998.184,"body":"really kind of prohibited London in"},{"startTime":998.914,"endTime":1002.004,"body":"getting to, to a larger coverage area."},{"startTime":1003.244,"endTime":1003.994,"body":"Sure, sure."},{"startTime":1004.594,"endTime":1011.004,"body":"I mean, behavioral change is always"},{"startTime":1004.594,"endTime":1011.004,"body":"challenging and getting people to change."},{"startTime":1011.854,"endTime":1015.684,"body":"Easy to swap out technology, but"},{"startTime":1011.854,"endTime":1015.684,"body":"in terms of changing people's"},{"startTime":1015.744,"endTime":1017.774,"body":"attitudes, that's always tough."},{"startTime":1019.124,"endTime":1023.514,"body":"What strategies do you think"},{"startTime":1019.124,"endTime":1023.514,"body":"of are the most effective in"},{"startTime":1023.514,"endTime":1025.004,"body":"encouraging this kind of change?"},{"startTime":1027.324,"endTime":1028.794,"body":"That's an excellent question."},{"startTime":1029.424,"endTime":1035.144,"body":"I spent quite a bit of time thinking"},{"startTime":1029.424,"endTime":1035.144,"body":"and even supporting some projects"},{"startTime":1035.144,"endTime":1038.964,"body":"and with funding from Climate Work"},{"startTime":1035.144,"endTime":1038.964,"body":"side on this particular topic."},{"startTime":1040.044,"endTime":1046.414,"body":"One thing that I'll say is that"},{"startTime":1040.044,"endTime":1046.414,"body":"whatever, any any advocate in the space."},{"startTime":1047.329,"endTime":1051.859,"body":"whether you're working at the system"},{"startTime":1047.329,"endTime":1051.859,"body":"change level or at behavior change"},{"startTime":1051.909,"endTime":1057.999,"body":"individual level needs to understand"},{"startTime":1051.909,"endTime":1057.999,"body":"that individual change and system"},{"startTime":1057.999,"endTime":1060.279,"body":"change are two sides of the same coin."},{"startTime":1061.089,"endTime":1066.829,"body":"And what that means is that the"},{"startTime":1061.089,"endTime":1066.829,"body":"system change work will only get"},{"startTime":1066.829,"endTime":1073.084,"body":"us so far before you start to have"},{"startTime":1066.829,"endTime":1073.084,"body":"to shift behaviors and vice versa."},{"startTime":1073.084,"endTime":1080.864,"body":"And so the way I see that  effectively"},{"startTime":1073.084,"endTime":1080.864,"body":"moving forward is you have to both"},{"startTime":1081.304,"endTime":1084.914,"body":"invest in movements and culture creation."},{"startTime":1085.134,"endTime":1091.024,"body":"So one particular case example I"},{"startTime":1085.134,"endTime":1091.024,"body":"have for this is a organization in"},{"startTime":1091.034,"endTime":1094.024,"body":"the Netherlands called BYCS B Y C S."},{"startTime":1095.384,"endTime":1103.624,"body":"And they are working across the globe to"},{"startTime":1095.384,"endTime":1103.624,"body":"support and grow the culture of biking."},{"startTime":1104.244,"endTime":1109.124,"body":"And working with different geographies"},{"startTime":1104.244,"endTime":1109.124,"body":"to unpack what biking means, what"},{"startTime":1109.124,"endTime":1113.154,"body":"are pre preconceptions around that"},{"startTime":1109.124,"endTime":1113.154,"body":"mode of transportation, how it"},{"startTime":1113.154,"endTime":1117.934,"body":"can benefit people in communities,"},{"startTime":1113.154,"endTime":1117.934,"body":"or what are kind of challenges"},{"startTime":1117.934,"endTime":1119.974,"body":"they're working with about that."},{"startTime":1120.614,"endTime":1125.124,"body":"And so that is, that is a way to"},{"startTime":1120.614,"endTime":1125.124,"body":"kind of pull people in and build"},{"startTime":1125.124,"endTime":1128.934,"body":"the culture, which will then sort"},{"startTime":1125.124,"endTime":1128.934,"body":"of incentivize behavior change."},{"startTime":1129.384,"endTime":1133.704,"body":"At the same time as you're doing"},{"startTime":1129.384,"endTime":1133.704,"body":"that, you're also, you also have"},{"startTime":1133.704,"endTime":1139.284,"body":"to be advocating at the city level"},{"startTime":1133.704,"endTime":1139.284,"body":"for the infrastructure that can"},{"startTime":1139.284,"endTime":1141.244,"body":"support this behavior change, right?"},{"startTime":1141.554,"endTime":1145.084,"body":"Just because I am so invested"},{"startTime":1141.554,"endTime":1145.084,"body":"in, I decided to get on the bike."},{"startTime":1145.644,"endTime":1150.594,"body":"You know, I might be riding for a day,"},{"startTime":1145.644,"endTime":1150.594,"body":"but as soon as I get into an issue of"},{"startTime":1150.994,"endTime":1157.474,"body":"unprotected bike lane, my behavior change"},{"startTime":1150.994,"endTime":1157.474,"body":"will immediately be reversed because"},{"startTime":1157.524,"endTime":1160.384,"body":"I'm fearing for my physical safety."},{"startTime":1160.774,"endTime":1163.394,"body":"And so it kind of has to be hand in hand."},{"startTime":1163.404,"endTime":1167.439,"body":"And there's a lot of literature that"},{"startTime":1163.404,"endTime":1167.439,"body":"sort of debates what needs to follow."},{"startTime":1167.509,"endTime":1171.759,"body":"Do we need to actually have the"},{"startTime":1167.509,"endTime":1171.759,"body":"right infrastructure and conditions"},{"startTime":1171.769,"endTime":1176.019,"body":"for the behavior change to happen,"},{"startTime":1171.769,"endTime":1176.019,"body":"or do we need to have the culture"},{"startTime":1176.079,"endTime":1177.589,"body":"and it's somewhere in between."},{"startTime":1178.239,"endTime":1182.779,"body":"And one other example of why, why"},{"startTime":1178.239,"endTime":1182.779,"body":"you kind of need both of those things"},{"startTime":1182.819,"endTime":1191.029,"body":"is a number of years ago, a city,"},{"startTime":1182.819,"endTime":1191.029,"body":"I believe it was in Estonia, a city"},{"startTime":1193.294,"endTime":1199.364,"body":"tested moving to making all"},{"startTime":1193.294,"endTime":1199.364,"body":"public transportation free in"},{"startTime":1199.364,"endTime":1202.874,"body":"order to incentivize more people"},{"startTime":1199.364,"endTime":1202.874,"body":"to use public transportation."},{"startTime":1203.464,"endTime":1205.974,"body":"At first glance, sounds"},{"startTime":1203.464,"endTime":1205.974,"body":"like a great idea, right?"},{"startTime":1205.984,"endTime":1207.404,"body":"Who doesn't love free rides?"},{"startTime":1208.134,"endTime":1215.224,"body":"What they have observed is that the change"},{"startTime":1208.134,"endTime":1215.224,"body":"had very little effect on ridership."},{"startTime":1216.324,"endTime":1222.71,"body":"And so it's and the reason is because"},{"startTime":1216.324,"endTime":1222.71,"body":"the policy change or the, you know,"},{"startTime":1222.71,"endTime":1227.57,"body":"free public transport transit wasn't"},{"startTime":1222.71,"endTime":1227.57,"body":"as successful as they had anticipated"},{"startTime":1228.1,"endTime":1235.41,"body":"is because they had only accounted for"},{"startTime":1228.1,"endTime":1235.41,"body":"kind of the infrastructure side of the"},{"startTime":1235.41,"endTime":1242.44,"body":"behavior change, but they didn't couple"},{"startTime":1235.41,"endTime":1242.44,"body":"it with other kind of forcing mechanisms"},{"startTime":1242.65,"endTime":1245.32,"body":"that would make people want to switch."},{"startTime":1245.755,"endTime":1246.145,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1246.565,"endTime":1250.355,"body":"And so, you know, that that's sort"},{"startTime":1246.565,"endTime":1250.355,"body":"of where you leave lean a little bit"},{"startTime":1250.355,"endTime":1254.355,"body":"more into the individual behavior"},{"startTime":1250.355,"endTime":1254.355,"body":"campaigns or kind of engagement."},{"startTime":1254.79,"endTime":1255.08,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1255.08,"endTime":1258.46,"body":"So it was instead of carrot and stick,"},{"startTime":1255.08,"endTime":1258.46,"body":"it was just carrot and no stick."},{"startTime":1259.415,"endTime":1260.105,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1260.255,"endTime":1260.895,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1261.425,"endTime":1265.955,"body":"I, I did badmouth Seville earlier"},{"startTime":1261.425,"endTime":1265.955,"body":"on the low emissions zone."},{"startTime":1266.245,"endTime":1269.595,"body":"Now maybe it's time to say some"},{"startTime":1266.245,"endTime":1269.595,"body":"good things about the city because"},{"startTime":1269.825,"endTime":1272.625,"body":"you were talking about bike"},{"startTime":1269.825,"endTime":1272.625,"body":"lanes and bike infrastructure."},{"startTime":1272.625,"endTime":1276.575,"body":"And I remember I moved here in 2008"},{"startTime":1272.625,"endTime":1276.575,"body":"and at the time they were rolling"},{"startTime":1276.585,"endTime":1280.185,"body":"out the bike lanes throughout"},{"startTime":1276.585,"endTime":1280.185,"body":"the city and they've expanded out"},{"startTime":1280.185,"endTime":1282.055,"body":"into the outer towns now as well."},{"startTime":1282.605,"endTime":1286.465,"body":"But they were rolling out a bike sharing"},{"startTime":1282.605,"endTime":1286.465,"body":"scheme at the same time and they wouldn't"},{"startTime":1286.535,"endTime":1294.785,"body":"light up the bike sharing new station"},{"startTime":1286.535,"endTime":1294.785,"body":"until it had a protected bike lane on"},{"startTime":1294.805,"endTime":1299.585,"body":"either side of it for, and the bike"},{"startTime":1294.805,"endTime":1299.585,"body":"stations had to be, I think it was 200"},{"startTime":1299.615,"endTime":1302.355,"body":"meters or 500 meters between each one."},{"startTime":1302.515,"endTime":1305.575,"body":"So there was plenty of them and"},{"startTime":1302.515,"endTime":1305.575,"body":"they were all interconnected"},{"startTime":1305.595,"endTime":1307.655,"body":"by protected bike lanes."},{"startTime":1307.675,"endTime":1312.185,"body":"So all of the bike lanes in Seville"},{"startTime":1307.675,"endTime":1312.185,"body":"are physically separated from the road."},{"startTime":1312.485,"endTime":1316.679,"body":"And so if you were driving a car and"},{"startTime":1312.485,"endTime":1316.679,"body":"for whatever reason you wanted to hit"},{"startTime":1316.679,"endTime":1320.259,"body":"someone on a bike, you would actually"},{"startTime":1316.679,"endTime":1320.259,"body":"destroy your car in the attempt to do so."},{"startTime":1320.719,"endTime":1324.529,"body":"So it has, it's made cycling"},{"startTime":1320.719,"endTime":1324.529,"body":"here very, very attractive."},{"startTime":1326.974,"endTime":1335.444,"body":"I have heard about the case study of"},{"startTime":1326.974,"endTime":1335.444,"body":"Seville bike share or a bike lane network."},{"startTime":1362.914,"endTime":1367.564,"body":"I think it's something that many"},{"startTime":1362.914,"endTime":1367.564,"body":"cities look to as an example of"},{"startTime":1367.604,"endTime":1369.2240000000002,"body":"how to do it, how to do it right."},{"startTime":1369.654,"endTime":1374.174,"body":"And I think bike advocates in general,"},{"startTime":1369.654,"endTime":1374.174,"body":"you know, have a deep understanding"},{"startTime":1374.184,"endTime":1379.614,"body":"that unless bike lane is protected,"},{"startTime":1374.184,"endTime":1379.614,"body":"You will never ever be able to"},{"startTime":1379.614,"endTime":1385.164,"body":"capture the same ridership you"},{"startTime":1379.614,"endTime":1385.164,"body":"know, as, as a protected bike lane."},{"startTime":1385.559,"endTime":1385.969,"body":"yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1385.969,"endTime":1390.739,"body":"I mean, parents have zero fear of bringing"},{"startTime":1385.969,"endTime":1390.739,"body":"their kids on protected bike lanes."},{"startTime":1390.749,"endTime":1395.519,"body":"So, and that's how you get the, the uptake"},{"startTime":1390.749,"endTime":1395.519,"body":"of cycling is getting the kids into it."},{"startTime":1395.519,"endTime":1398.919,"body":"So yeah, it makes a lot of sense,"},{"startTime":1395.519,"endTime":1398.919,"body":"but let's talk a little bit"},{"startTime":1398.919,"endTime":1402.7450000000001,"body":"about EVs because that's a topic"},{"startTime":1398.919,"endTime":1402.7450000000001,"body":"that I'm quite passionate about."},{"startTime":1402.795,"endTime":1408.395,"body":"I have been driving a full"},{"startTime":1402.795,"endTime":1408.395,"body":"EV as my main car since 2018."},{"startTime":1409.02,"endTime":1413.56,"body":"Several different ones, but yeah"},{"startTime":1409.02,"endTime":1413.56,"body":"and I've got solar panels on the"},{"startTime":1413.56,"endTime":1417.03,"body":"roof as well, which is even better"},{"startTime":1413.56,"endTime":1417.03,"body":"because I can drive on sunshine."},{"startTime":1417.89,"endTime":1420.26,"body":"Nice and nice and free,"},{"startTime":1417.89,"endTime":1420.26,"body":"free power for the car."},{"startTime":1420.26,"endTime":1420.66,"body":"It's great."},{"startTime":1421.31,"endTime":1427.73,"body":"And I want to think that there's got to"},{"startTime":1421.31,"endTime":1427.73,"body":"be so right at the moment, we're hearing a"},{"startTime":1427.73,"endTime":1432.38,"body":"lot of negative press around EVs as people"},{"startTime":1427.73,"endTime":1432.38,"body":"are pushing back against them, as vested"},{"startTime":1432.38,"endTime":1433.76,"body":"interests are pushing back against them."},{"startTime":1433.76,"endTime":1439.79,"body":"And there is this attitude in the"},{"startTime":1433.76,"endTime":1439.79,"body":"press saying that the sale of EVs"},{"startTime":1439.81,"endTime":1442.94,"body":"is falling, which actually, if"},{"startTime":1439.81,"endTime":1442.94,"body":"you look at the stats is untrue."},{"startTime":1443.5,"endTime":1449.3600000000001,"body":"But talk to me a little, a little"},{"startTime":1443.5,"endTime":1449.3600000000001,"body":"bit about how do we encourage"},{"startTime":1449.39,"endTime":1452.1200000000001,"body":"more people to shift to EVs?"},{"startTime":1453.314,"endTime":1454.794,"body":"That's a very good question."},{"startTime":1456.194,"endTime":1459.384,"body":"And something that."},{"startTime":1460.419,"endTime":1466.079,"body":"We at ClimateWorks phone or on the"},{"startTime":1460.419,"endTime":1466.079,"body":"road transportation team, believe it"},{"startTime":1466.079,"endTime":1470.489,"body":"or not, don't spend that much time"},{"startTime":1466.079,"endTime":1470.489,"body":"talking about, and let me explain why"},{"startTime":1470.699,"endTime":1471.159,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":1471.549,"endTime":1477.0990000000002,"body":"We firmly believe in"},{"startTime":1471.549,"endTime":1477.0990000000002,"body":"the power of regulation."},{"startTime":1477.479,"endTime":1481.949,"body":"So a lot of the work, a lot of you"},{"startTime":1477.479,"endTime":1481.949,"body":"know, things that we fund and the work"},{"startTime":1481.949,"endTime":1486.4840000000002,"body":"that we support, very specifically"},{"startTime":1481.949,"endTime":1486.4840000000002,"body":"focuses on regulatory change."},{"startTime":1487.194,"endTime":1493.824,"body":"And our view is that with the right"},{"startTime":1487.194,"endTime":1493.824,"body":"regulation, the, that is kind of"},{"startTime":1493.824,"endTime":1500.814,"body":"design with a well designed regulation,"},{"startTime":1493.824,"endTime":1500.814,"body":"you can shift the market in such"},{"startTime":1500.814,"endTime":1506.834,"body":"a way where the, it will be an"},{"startTime":1500.814,"endTime":1506.834,"body":"automaker's best interest to appeal"},{"startTime":1506.904,"endTime":1511.574,"body":"to consumer and to make their product"},{"startTime":1506.904,"endTime":1511.574,"body":"competitive for the consumer to buy."},{"startTime":1511.894,"endTime":1520.174,"body":"So in some ways, if you kind of change"},{"startTime":1511.894,"endTime":1520.174,"body":"that market mechanism, then the EVs"},{"startTime":1520.2440000000001,"endTime":1527.5240000000001,"body":"will come to the consumer rather than"},{"startTime":1520.2440000000001,"endTime":1527.5240000000001,"body":"having to continuously incentivize or"},{"startTime":1527.554,"endTime":1529.7640000000001,"body":"encourage consumers to make the switch."},{"startTime":1529.824,"endTime":1535.7740000000001,"body":"I want to kind of unpack that a little bit"},{"startTime":1529.824,"endTime":1535.7740000000001,"body":"because it's, it's something, you know,"},{"startTime":1535.7740000000001,"endTime":1541.534,"body":"we, we talk a lot about with our partners,"},{"startTime":1535.7740000000001,"endTime":1541.534,"body":"kind of the, the dynamic of engaging"},{"startTime":1541.544,"endTime":1545.654,"body":"the general public or trying to convince"},{"startTime":1541.544,"endTime":1545.654,"body":"the general public versus kind of using"},{"startTime":1545.654,"endTime":1547.894,"body":"the regulatory approach to shift change."},{"startTime":1548.7240000000002,"endTime":1554.804,"body":"So one of the things that we, and mostly"},{"startTime":1548.7240000000002,"endTime":1554.804,"body":"now my, my colleagues that work a lot"},{"startTime":1554.814,"endTime":1558.314,"body":"on this, since I stepped away a little"},{"startTime":1554.814,"endTime":1558.314,"body":"bit in the battery and minerals world."},{"startTime":1558.394,"endTime":1566.9940000000001,"body":"But so one of the things that we"},{"startTime":1558.394,"endTime":1566.9940000000001,"body":"advocate for are this thing called"},{"startTime":1567.0140000000001,"endTime":1568.714,"body":"the supply side regulations."},{"startTime":1569.364,"endTime":1574.6290000000001,"body":"And so, a supply side regulation, the"},{"startTime":1569.364,"endTime":1574.6290000000001,"body":"beauty of a supply side regulation"},{"startTime":1574.709,"endTime":1582.5990000000002,"body":"is that effectively, it asks the"},{"startTime":1574.709,"endTime":1582.5990000000002,"body":"industry to deliver a percentage"},{"startTime":1582.6490000000001,"endTime":1587.1490000000001,"body":"of a certain product and to sort of"},{"startTime":1582.6490000000001,"endTime":1587.1490000000001,"body":"increase that percentage over time."},{"startTime":1587.6290000000001,"endTime":1591.569,"body":"So at some point in the future,"},{"startTime":1587.6290000000001,"endTime":1591.569,"body":"they only deliver the product that"},{"startTime":1591.569,"endTime":1593.019,"body":"is mandated by the government."},{"startTime":1593.469,"endTime":1599.457,"body":"So in case of the auto industry, a supply"},{"startTime":1593.469,"endTime":1599.457,"body":"side regulation is an example of one"},{"startTime":1599.487,"endTime":1605.387,"body":"is, for instance, advanced clean trucks"},{"startTime":1599.487,"endTime":1605.387,"body":"rule that was adopted in California."},{"startTime":1605.867,"endTime":1612.257,"body":"And so what it does, it, it asks"},{"startTime":1605.867,"endTime":1612.257,"body":"truck manufacturers to produce a"},{"startTime":1612.257,"endTime":1618.717,"body":"certain, produce and sell, a certain"},{"startTime":1612.257,"endTime":1618.717,"body":"percentage of trucks by a certain date."},{"startTime":1618.747,"endTime":1623.097,"body":"And that, that percentage sort of"},{"startTime":1618.747,"endTime":1623.097,"body":"escalates up until a hundred percent."},{"startTime":1623.137,"endTime":1625.6570000000002,"body":"There's a similar policy"},{"startTime":1623.137,"endTime":1625.6570000000002,"body":"for vehicles as well."},{"startTime":1626.4470000000001,"endTime":1631.107,"body":"And so if you're mandating the"},{"startTime":1626.4470000000001,"endTime":1631.107,"body":"automakers to not just produce, but"},{"startTime":1631.107,"endTime":1636.077,"body":"to also sell these products, what"},{"startTime":1631.107,"endTime":1636.077,"body":"happens is they are incentivized to"},{"startTime":1636.077,"endTime":1642.6870000000001,"body":"shift their marketing budget, which"},{"startTime":1636.077,"endTime":1642.6870000000001,"body":"is incredibly, incredibly high from"},{"startTime":1642.737,"endTime":1650.8220000000001,"body":"exclusively marketing their gasoline"},{"startTime":1642.737,"endTime":1650.8220000000001,"body":"vehicles to also marketing EVs, right?"},{"startTime":1650.852,"endTime":1655.592,"body":"And so if you, if you you know,"},{"startTime":1650.852,"endTime":1655.592,"body":"you follow EVs, you have been"},{"startTime":1655.592,"endTime":1656.892,"body":"following EVs for a long time."},{"startTime":1656.892,"endTime":1659.3020000000001,"body":"You might've noticed that all"},{"startTime":1656.892,"endTime":1659.3020000000001,"body":"of a sudden we have a lot of"},{"startTime":1659.3020000000001,"endTime":1661.742,"body":"commercials about EVs, right?"},{"startTime":1661.7820000000002,"endTime":1665.232,"body":"And it's, it's sort of the, the you"},{"startTime":1661.7820000000002,"endTime":1665.232,"body":"know, it's, it's the thing that will"},{"startTime":1665.242,"endTime":1671.3110000000001,"body":"drive, I think, the consumer more so"},{"startTime":1665.242,"endTime":1671.3110000000001,"body":"than just advocacy campaigns, which I"},{"startTime":1671.3110000000001,"endTime":1673.111,"body":"know some of our partners do as well."},{"startTime":1673.781,"endTime":1679.511,"body":"The other important thing to note"},{"startTime":1673.781,"endTime":1679.511,"body":"here is because automakers or truck"},{"startTime":1679.511,"endTime":1684.8310000000001,"body":"manufacturers are are mandated or"},{"startTime":1679.511,"endTime":1684.8310000000001,"body":"they have to sell the product, right?"},{"startTime":1684.871,"endTime":1688.5910000000001,"body":"It's they have to sell the"},{"startTime":1684.871,"endTime":1688.5910000000001,"body":"EVs, not just produce them."},{"startTime":1688.981,"endTime":1692.241,"body":"They are then also required,"},{"startTime":1688.981,"endTime":1692.241,"body":"well, not required."},{"startTime":1692.251,"endTime":1698.371,"body":"They're sort of incentivized to"},{"startTime":1692.251,"endTime":1698.371,"body":"price their product competitively"},{"startTime":1698.441,"endTime":1699.8310000000001,"body":"with gasoline vehicles."},{"startTime":1700.3010000000002,"endTime":1707.2910000000002,"body":"And so you, what happens is you avoid"},{"startTime":1700.3010000000002,"endTime":1707.2910000000002,"body":"the cost being shifted onto the consumer."},{"startTime":1708.0510000000002,"endTime":1711.701,"body":"And you kind of, close the gap."},{"startTime":1711.741,"endTime":1716.141,"body":"Now, obviously on the industry side"},{"startTime":1711.741,"endTime":1716.141,"body":"and what they'll tell you is, you"},{"startTime":1716.141,"endTime":1717.681,"body":"know, that's really hard to do."},{"startTime":1718.191,"endTime":1720.941,"body":"We're, we're going to be running a loss."},{"startTime":1721.221,"endTime":1724.691,"body":"It's, you know, really hard to make"},{"startTime":1721.221,"endTime":1724.691,"body":"a profit if we're, you know, not"},{"startTime":1724.691,"endTime":1729.141,"body":"pricing products fairly and so on"},{"startTime":1724.691,"endTime":1729.141,"body":"and so forth, but ultimately that"},{"startTime":1729.141,"endTime":1733.351,"body":"is kind of the ratcheting mechanism"},{"startTime":1729.141,"endTime":1733.351,"body":"that we found works extremely well."},{"startTime":1733.361,"endTime":1739.0710000000001,"body":"Now, granted this works well if it"},{"startTime":1733.361,"endTime":1739.0710000000001,"body":"can be implemented, and monitored"},{"startTime":1739.461,"endTime":1744.5610000000001,"body":"adequately as well, which is obviously"},{"startTime":1739.461,"endTime":1744.5610000000001,"body":"the, the core components of regulation."},{"startTime":1745.2060000000001,"endTime":1746.366,"body":"Sure, sure, sure, sure."},{"startTime":1746.366,"endTime":1749.346,"body":"Yeah, we, we had similar regulation"},{"startTime":1746.366,"endTime":1749.346,"body":"here in Europe that came into"},{"startTime":1749.346,"endTime":1751.996,"body":"effect in 2020, I think it was."},{"startTime":1752.306,"endTime":1757.516,"body":"If I remember correctly for EVs, for,"},{"startTime":1752.306,"endTime":1757.516,"body":"for all auto manufacturers, their sales"},{"startTime":1757.546,"endTime":1766.246,"body":"in Europe, their, the average grams"},{"startTime":1757.546,"endTime":1766.246,"body":"CO2 per kilometer had to be less than"},{"startTime":1766.266,"endTime":1771.476,"body":"120 grams CO2 per kilometer across the"},{"startTime":1766.266,"endTime":1771.476,"body":"entir fleet that they sold for that"},{"startTime":1771.486,"endTime":1777.1960000000001,"body":"year and that ratcheted down and for"},{"startTime":1771.486,"endTime":1777.1960000000001,"body":"people who might be unaware what 120g"},{"startTime":1777.556,"endTime":1784.126,"body":"CO2 per kilometer means my car before"},{"startTime":1777.556,"endTime":1784.126,"body":"2018 was a Prius, a Toyota Prius and"},{"startTime":1784.346,"endTime":1789.066,"body":"that car produced 117g CO2 per kilometer."},{"startTime":1789.4160000000002,"endTime":1795.2160000000001,"body":"So the average for the manufacturers"},{"startTime":1789.4160000000002,"endTime":1795.2160000000001,"body":"selling in Europe, starting in 2020 had"},{"startTime":1795.2160000000001,"endTime":1799.9360000000001,"body":"to be just a little bit above a Prius"},{"startTime":1795.2160000000001,"endTime":1799.9360000000001,"body":"across their entire fleet, you know,"},{"startTime":1799.9360000000001,"endTime":1806.1760000000002,"body":"so if they were selling big SUVs, they"},{"startTime":1799.9360000000001,"endTime":1806.1760000000002,"body":"then had to sell, you know, far more EVs"},{"startTime":1806.1960000000001,"endTime":1808.246,"body":"or hybrids to try and bring that down."},{"startTime":1808.556,"endTime":1812.4260000000002,"body":"So it, it's been quite effective and"},{"startTime":1808.556,"endTime":1812.4260000000002,"body":"that number ratchets up and we're,"},{"startTime":1812.506,"endTime":1815.4560000000001,"body":"we're seeing a similar thing now with"},{"startTime":1812.506,"endTime":1815.4560000000001,"body":"buses and heavy goods vehicles in"},{"startTime":1815.4560000000001,"endTime":1819.5910000000001,"body":"Europe, where if I remember correctly,"},{"startTime":1815.4560000000001,"endTime":1819.5910000000001,"body":"I probably don't, but I'll be in the"},{"startTime":1819.5910000000001,"endTime":1824.271,"body":"ballpark by 2030, something like 90"},{"startTime":1819.5910000000001,"endTime":1824.271,"body":"percent of municipal buses have to be"},{"startTime":1824.281,"endTime":1829.971,"body":"zero emissions and by 2035, it's something"},{"startTime":1824.281,"endTime":1829.971,"body":"like 65 percent of heavy goods vehicles"},{"startTime":1829.971,"endTime":1834.211,"body":"have to be zero emissions, ratcheting"},{"startTime":1829.971,"endTime":1834.211,"body":"up to like 90 to 100 percent by 2040."},{"startTime":1834.241,"endTime":1837.501,"body":"So, yeah, those, those kind of"},{"startTime":1834.241,"endTime":1837.501,"body":"mandates obviously are going to"},{"startTime":1837.501,"endTime":1842.0710000000001,"body":"be, we hope they have, they have"},{"startTime":1837.501,"endTime":1842.0710000000001,"body":"been quite successful here so far."},{"startTime":1842.0710000000001,"endTime":1844.8210000000001,"body":"And as it ratchets up, it, it,"},{"startTime":1842.0710000000001,"endTime":1844.8210000000001,"body":"it, it only gets more effective."},{"startTime":1846.4260000000002,"endTime":1847.096,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1847.096,"endTime":1852.146,"body":"And I just wanted to do a quick plug"},{"startTime":1847.096,"endTime":1852.146,"body":"to all of our European partners that"},{"startTime":1852.156,"endTime":1856.556,"body":"have been working tirelessly for over"},{"startTime":1852.156,"endTime":1856.556,"body":"a decade to get to a point where you"},{"startTime":1856.566,"endTime":1861.736,"body":"could have CO2 standards regulation"},{"startTime":1856.566,"endTime":1861.736,"body":"that actually phases out combustion"},{"startTime":1861.736,"endTime":1863.4660000000001,"body":"completely by a certain date."},{"startTime":1863.856,"endTime":1865.1660000000002,"body":"And it was a huge achievement."},{"startTime":1865.1860000000001,"endTime":1871.2160000000001,"body":"And as you know, Tom sitting in"},{"startTime":1865.1860000000001,"endTime":1871.2160000000001,"body":"Europe, it's still being debated and"},{"startTime":1871.246,"endTime":1876.156,"body":"potentially pushed back on, which is"},{"startTime":1871.246,"endTime":1876.156,"body":"kind of excruciating to watch, but"},{"startTime":1879.116,"endTime":1883.116,"body":"Talk to me a little bit, a little bit,"},{"startTime":1879.116,"endTime":1883.116,"body":"though, about the battery supply chains,"},{"startTime":1883.126,"endTime":1887.406,"body":"because you mentioned you're working"},{"startTime":1883.126,"endTime":1887.406,"body":"now a lot in minerals and supply chains."},{"startTime":1887.4160000000002,"endTime":1889.326,"body":"So what's happening there?"},{"startTime":1891.6860000000001,"endTime":1892.906,"body":"Yeah, I'm happy to share."},{"startTime":1892.906,"endTime":1898.746,"body":"So, maybe I'll start with the"},{"startTime":1892.906,"endTime":1898.746,"body":"work that we've, we've been doing"},{"startTime":1898.816,"endTime":1900.046,"body":"on the road transportation team."},{"startTime":1900.136,"endTime":1900.4460000000001,"body":"Effectively."},{"startTime":1902.326,"endTime":1906.986,"body":"You know, a lot of our priority"},{"startTime":1902.326,"endTime":1906.986,"body":"on the team has been focused"},{"startTime":1906.986,"endTime":1908.4360000000001,"body":"on fuel efficiency standards."},{"startTime":1908.4660000000001,"endTime":1913.396,"body":"Globally we work across highest"},{"startTime":1908.4660000000001,"endTime":1913.396,"body":"emission emitting regions of the world."},{"startTime":1913.396,"endTime":1918.726,"body":"So US, EU, China and India"},{"startTime":1913.396,"endTime":1918.726,"body":"and are now building out deep"},{"startTime":1918.726,"endTime":1922.486,"body":"work in emerging economies of"},{"startTime":1918.726,"endTime":1922.486,"body":"the geopolitical global South."},{"startTime":1923.286,"endTime":1928.226,"body":"And we've also been working"},{"startTime":1923.286,"endTime":1928.226,"body":"a lot on EV policy that we've"},{"startTime":1928.296,"endTime":1929.726,"body":"literally just talked about."},{"startTime":1930.776,"endTime":1937.546,"body":"About a couple of years ago, we, once"},{"startTime":1930.776,"endTime":1937.546,"body":"EVs uptake really started to pick up."},{"startTime":1937.586,"endTime":1944.486,"body":"And so this is, you know, 2017,"},{"startTime":1937.586,"endTime":1944.486,"body":"2018, we started to hear bits and"},{"startTime":1944.486,"endTime":1950.4260000000002,"body":"pieces from our partners that there's"},{"startTime":1944.486,"endTime":1950.4260000000002,"body":"something around EV battery supply"},{"startTime":1950.4260000000002,"endTime":1954.396,"body":"chain that might be that is of concern."},{"startTime":1955.006,"endTime":1958.9360000000001,"body":"And that might impede"},{"startTime":1955.006,"endTime":1958.9360000000001,"body":"accelerated EV uptake."},{"startTime":1959.896,"endTime":1963.506,"body":"And so at that point, we're"},{"startTime":1959.896,"endTime":1963.506,"body":"like, oh, there's something"},{"startTime":1963.506,"endTime":1964.7060000000001,"body":"we haven't accounted for."},{"startTime":1964.7060000000001,"endTime":1967.726,"body":"We've been like fighting"},{"startTime":1964.7060000000001,"endTime":1967.726,"body":"oil interests and all these"},{"startTime":1967.746,"endTime":1969.692,"body":"different unproductive interests."},{"startTime":1969.742,"endTime":1971.002,"body":"And now there's something else."},{"startTime":1971.0720000000001,"endTime":1976.207,"body":"And so, from that grew our, EV"},{"startTime":1971.0720000000001,"endTime":1976.207,"body":"battery sustainability initiative"},{"startTime":1976.277,"endTime":1981.807,"body":"and essentially what it did in early"},{"startTime":1976.277,"endTime":1981.807,"body":"days was to try to understand what is"},{"startTime":1981.807,"endTime":1988.1770000000001,"body":"it about the EV battery supply chain"},{"startTime":1981.807,"endTime":1988.1770000000001,"body":"that might be an issue for EV uptake."},{"startTime":1988.787,"endTime":1992.567,"body":"What is it that we can do about it"},{"startTime":1988.787,"endTime":1992.567,"body":"from philanthropic point of view?"},{"startTime":1993.277,"endTime":1999.002,"body":"And, what, How do we need to be,"},{"startTime":1993.277,"endTime":1999.002,"body":"how do we need to think about"},{"startTime":1999.0320000000002,"endTime":2001.142,"body":"and approach this issue area?"},{"startTime":2001.7720000000002,"endTime":2005.332,"body":"And so it became quite clear,"},{"startTime":2001.7720000000002,"endTime":2005.332,"body":"a couple of things became quite"},{"startTime":2005.332,"endTime":2007.5720000000001,"body":"clear out of that work stream."},{"startTime":2008.0720000000001,"endTime":2011.662,"body":"One is that you can't really"},{"startTime":2008.0720000000001,"endTime":2011.662,"body":"talk about EV batteries without"},{"startTime":2011.692,"endTime":2013.3220000000001,"body":"also talking about minerals."},{"startTime":2014.057,"endTime":2018.1770000000001,"body":"Without essentially talking about the"},{"startTime":2014.057,"endTime":2018.1770000000001,"body":"stuff that the batteries is made from."},{"startTime":2018.8970000000002,"endTime":2022.477,"body":"You also can't really talk about EV"},{"startTime":2018.8970000000002,"endTime":2022.477,"body":"batteries without also talking about"},{"startTime":2022.707,"endTime":2027.867,"body":"the incredible lack of transparency in"},{"startTime":2022.707,"endTime":2027.867,"body":"those supply chains, but also pretty"},{"startTime":2027.867,"endTime":2033.304,"body":"much every supply chain in the world"},{"startTime":2027.867,"endTime":2033.304,"body":"is not very transparent which is"},{"startTime":2033.684,"endTime":2038.179,"body":"not a great result of our kind of a"},{"startTime":2033.684,"endTime":2038.179,"body":"globalized Increasingly globalized world."},{"startTime":2039.999,"endTime":2047.8590000000002,"body":"And out of those two recognitions, we sort"},{"startTime":2039.999,"endTime":2047.8590000000002,"body":"of realize that a, we need to be working"},{"startTime":2047.999,"endTime":2054.439,"body":"across issue areas and understanding"},{"startTime":2047.999,"endTime":2054.439,"body":"other perspectives as we try to tackle"},{"startTime":2055.339,"endTime":2058.459,"body":"the EV battery supply chain work, and I'll"},{"startTime":2055.339,"endTime":2058.459,"body":"talk about what that means in a second."},{"startTime":2059.209,"endTime":2064.489,"body":"And then the second is that we really"},{"startTime":2059.209,"endTime":2064.489,"body":"need to be talking about and thinking"},{"startTime":2064.529,"endTime":2069.939,"body":"what conditions need to be in place"},{"startTime":2064.529,"endTime":2069.939,"body":"in order to efficiently recover"},{"startTime":2070.689,"endTime":2075.459,"body":"anything that the EV batteries have"},{"startTime":2070.689,"endTime":2075.459,"body":"inside that is valuable, right?"},{"startTime":2075.469,"endTime":2079.939,"body":"So we, you know, kind of started our"},{"startTime":2075.469,"endTime":2079.939,"body":"conversation talking about design and"},{"startTime":2079.939,"endTime":2086.239,"body":"circular design, and I'm sort of right"},{"startTime":2079.939,"endTime":2086.239,"body":"back at it because effectively we need"},{"startTime":2086.2490000000003,"endTime":2093.309,"body":"to be thinking about how to recycle"},{"startTime":2086.2490000000003,"endTime":2093.309,"body":"these EV batteries before we have a huge"},{"startTime":2093.309,"endTime":2096.734,"body":"surge of them coming to the end of life."},{"startTime":2097.194,"endTime":2101.934,"body":"And so a lot of the EV battery"},{"startTime":2097.194,"endTime":2101.934,"body":"sustainability work focuses on end"},{"startTime":2101.934,"endTime":2104.174,"body":"of life practices and recycling."},{"startTime":2105.014,"endTime":2112.234,"body":"And I would also like to just highlight"},{"startTime":2105.014,"endTime":2112.234,"body":"that it sits within our Drive Electric"},{"startTime":2112.234,"endTime":2116.6440000000002,"body":"campaign, which is an initiative, a"},{"startTime":2112.234,"endTime":2116.6440000000002,"body":"global initiative housed at Climate"},{"startTime":2116.6440000000002,"endTime":2123.014,"body":"Works Foundation that seeks to end"},{"startTime":2116.6440000000002,"endTime":2123.014,"body":"the tailpipe before 2040 across modes."},{"startTime":2123.054,"endTime":2125.584,"body":"And it's a huge kind of a"},{"startTime":2123.054,"endTime":2125.584,"body":"collaborative effort between"},{"startTime":2125.594,"endTime":2128.254,"body":"NGOs and philanthropic partners."},{"startTime":2128.664,"endTime":2131.574,"body":"And so as part of that work,"},{"startTime":2128.664,"endTime":2131.574,"body":"battery sustainability is very"},{"startTime":2131.574,"endTime":2137.264,"body":"much about, you know, recyclability"},{"startTime":2131.574,"endTime":2137.264,"body":"designing for optimal recycling."},{"startTime":2137.574,"endTime":2143.4990000000003,"body":"With that work, we try to advocate"},{"startTime":2137.574,"endTime":2143.4990000000003,"body":"for regulation, of course."},{"startTime":2143.839,"endTime":2148.429,"body":"So one example would be the EU"},{"startTime":2143.839,"endTime":2148.429,"body":"battery law that passed recently."},{"startTime":2148.429,"endTime":2153.189,"body":"So we've supported a number of"},{"startTime":2148.429,"endTime":2153.189,"body":"partners advocating for the strongest"},{"startTime":2153.189,"endTime":2155.2490000000003,"body":"possible EV battery regulation."},{"startTime":2155.2690000000002,"endTime":2159.279,"body":"And for folks that are hearing about"},{"startTime":2155.2690000000002,"endTime":2159.279,"body":"this for the first time, the regulation"},{"startTime":2159.349,"endTime":2165.899,"body":"essentially sets mandated recovery"},{"startTime":2159.349,"endTime":2165.899,"body":"targets for four minerals that are"},{"startTime":2165.989,"endTime":2168.699,"body":"comprised in lithium ion batteries."},{"startTime":2169.079,"endTime":2174.584,"body":"It also mandates human rights due"},{"startTime":2169.079,"endTime":2174.584,"body":"diligence as part of an effort to make"},{"startTime":2174.6040000000003,"endTime":2177.324,"body":"the supply chain more transparent."},{"startTime":2178.1440000000002,"endTime":2183.004,"body":"And so that's sort of one policy"},{"startTime":2178.1440000000002,"endTime":2183.004,"body":"lever that we've advocated for."},{"startTime":2183.024,"endTime":2188.684,"body":"And from our point of view, the"},{"startTime":2183.024,"endTime":2188.684,"body":"optimal future is where all major"},{"startTime":2188.884,"endTime":2192.054,"body":"auto markets have a similar policy."},{"startTime":2192.094,"endTime":2197.944,"body":"And even countries that have a lot"},{"startTime":2192.094,"endTime":2197.944,"body":"of maybe second second use EVs in"},{"startTime":2197.944,"endTime":2202.3540000000003,"body":"their market used EVs also have and"},{"startTime":2197.944,"endTime":2202.3540000000003,"body":"are have the policies on the books"},{"startTime":2202.3540000000003,"endTime":2207.804,"body":"and are prepared to handle the high"},{"startTime":2202.3540000000003,"endTime":2207.804,"body":"and growing volume of EV batteries."},{"startTime":2209.339,"endTime":2214.219,"body":"Now, I want to talk a little bit about the"},{"startTime":2209.339,"endTime":2214.219,"body":"mining piece of it here and sort of the"},{"startTime":2214.219,"endTime":2220.7290000000003,"body":"minerals piece which is for us, it kind"},{"startTime":2214.219,"endTime":2220.7290000000003,"body":"of falls into a separate and complementary"},{"startTime":2220.7490000000003,"endTime":2224.949,"body":"initiative, and which is called the"},{"startTime":2220.7490000000003,"endTime":2224.949,"body":"Minerals for the Energy Transition."},{"startTime":2225.379,"endTime":2232.744,"body":"So that initiative really starts to"},{"startTime":2225.379,"endTime":2232.744,"body":"look into the question of what do we"},{"startTime":2232.774,"endTime":2239.154,"body":"actually do about the fact that many,"},{"startTime":2232.774,"endTime":2239.154,"body":"many raw materials, many more than we"},{"startTime":2239.154,"endTime":2245.384,"body":"have today, are needed to be, to build"},{"startTime":2239.154,"endTime":2245.384,"body":"enough clean technologies in order to"},{"startTime":2245.3940000000002,"endTime":2247.974,"body":"allow us to transition from fossil fuels?"},{"startTime":2248.404,"endTime":2253.974,"body":"And so it's sort of very broad and,"},{"startTime":2248.404,"endTime":2253.974,"body":"or much broader and gets into these"},{"startTime":2254.024,"endTime":2257.094,"body":"more kind of extraction questions."},{"startTime":2261.149,"endTime":2262.039,"body":"What do we need to do?"},{"startTime":2262.039,"endTime":2267.909,"body":"I mean, if, if I look at the minerals"},{"startTime":2262.039,"endTime":2267.909,"body":"requirements for the transition any"},{"startTime":2267.939,"endTime":2272.759,"body":"data I've seen on that says we need"},{"startTime":2267.939,"endTime":2272.759,"body":"far less extraction and mining than we"},{"startTime":2272.759,"endTime":2278.2290000000003,"body":"do, then that's being done currently"},{"startTime":2272.759,"endTime":2278.2290000000003,"body":"for fossil fuels, for example."},{"startTime":2278.754,"endTime":2285.234,"body":"And the other side, I would say, of"},{"startTime":2278.754,"endTime":2285.234,"body":"the the, the extraction and mining"},{"startTime":2285.234,"endTime":2289.204,"body":"that's going to be required for the"},{"startTime":2285.234,"endTime":2289.204,"body":"energy transition is that the vast,"},{"startTime":2289.214,"endTime":2295.474,"body":"vast majority of the minerals that are"},{"startTime":2289.214,"endTime":2295.474,"body":"being extracted will be recyclable,"},{"startTime":2295.484,"endTime":2297.914,"body":"whereas fossil fuels are single use."},{"startTime":2299.994,"endTime":2300.914,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2300.974,"endTime":2302.1240000000003,"body":"And absolutely."},{"startTime":2302.164,"endTime":2306.834,"body":"And I actually want to offer a quick"},{"startTime":2302.164,"endTime":2306.834,"body":"data point here that I do have,"},{"startTime":2307.464,"endTime":2307.764,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":2308.004,"endTime":2309.324,"body":"That will be interesting."},{"startTime":2309.364,"endTime":2314.404,"body":"So there's a report by Energy Transitions"},{"startTime":2309.364,"endTime":2314.404,"body":"Commission that I really, really like."},{"startTime":2314.494,"endTime":2320.3940000000002,"body":"It sort of does a great job synthesizing"},{"startTime":2314.494,"endTime":2320.3940000000002,"body":"the material needs of the energy"},{"startTime":2320.3940000000002,"endTime":2326.434,"body":"transition, kind of slicing and dicing"},{"startTime":2320.3940000000002,"endTime":2326.434,"body":"the needs in a slightly better way"},{"startTime":2326.454,"endTime":2332.344,"body":"or a slightly more, I think, readable"},{"startTime":2326.454,"endTime":2332.344,"body":"way than even the IEA's numbers and"},{"startTime":2332.344,"endTime":2336.424,"body":"they're, they're, the ETC report"},{"startTime":2332.344,"endTime":2336.424,"body":"is a little bit more grounded too."},{"startTime":2336.524,"endTime":2341.194,"body":"So in that report last year, they did"},{"startTime":2336.524,"endTime":2341.194,"body":"this interesting calculation that I"},{"startTime":2341.194,"endTime":2346.594,"body":"really like, which is they estimated"},{"startTime":2341.194,"endTime":2346.594,"body":"the material needs of all clean"},{"startTime":2346.6040000000003,"endTime":2349.814,"body":"energy technologies from now to 2050."},{"startTime":2350.6440000000002,"endTime":2354.974,"body":"And they landed at a number of about 6."},{"startTime":2354.974,"endTime":2357.194,"body":"5 billion tons."},{"startTime":2357.554,"endTime":2359.424,"body":"So basically they're saying 6."},{"startTime":2359.454,"endTime":2365.304,"body":"5 billion tons of all types of"},{"startTime":2359.454,"endTime":2365.304,"body":"raw materials will be needed to"},{"startTime":2365.314,"endTime":2367.954,"body":"build this clean energy future."},{"startTime":2369.364,"endTime":2372.034,"body":"And there's two, two"},{"startTime":2369.364,"endTime":2372.034,"body":"points related to that."},{"startTime":2372.074,"endTime":2375.034,"body":"One is that 75 percent of that is steel."},{"startTime":2375.449,"endTime":2379.629,"body":"We forget how much steel we use"},{"startTime":2375.449,"endTime":2379.629,"body":"and how much steel is actually also"},{"startTime":2379.659,"endTime":2383.489,"body":"a backbone of our, the new energy"},{"startTime":2379.659,"endTime":2383.489,"body":"system we're trying to build."},{"startTime":2384.089,"endTime":2384.439,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2384.469,"endTime":2388.299,"body":"And the other thing to say is"},{"startTime":2384.469,"endTime":2388.299,"body":"that, so we have this like 6."},{"startTime":2388.299,"endTime":2395.989,"body":"5 billion over, you know, from 2022"},{"startTime":2388.299,"endTime":2395.989,"body":"to 2050 compared to 8 billion tons"},{"startTime":2395.989,"endTime":2399.5190000000002,"body":"of coal that is extracted annually."},{"startTime":2400.264,"endTime":2400.974,"body":"annually."},{"startTime":2401.954,"endTime":2403.614,"body":"And that's just coal."},{"startTime":2404.004,"endTime":2404.414,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2404.454,"endTime":2408.614,"body":"That's not taking into account the oil"},{"startTime":2404.454,"endTime":2408.614,"body":"that we pump, the gas that we pump,"},{"startTime":2408.654,"endTime":2410.234,"body":"and kind of all these other pieces."},{"startTime":2410.674,"endTime":2412.944,"body":"So absolutely on that piece."},{"startTime":2413.294,"endTime":2416.264,"body":"And if you look at, you know, I"},{"startTime":2413.294,"endTime":2416.264,"body":"encourage folks to definitely take"},{"startTime":2416.264,"endTime":2419.984,"body":"a look at that report because they"},{"startTime":2416.264,"endTime":2419.984,"body":"also do quite interesting comparisons"},{"startTime":2420.054,"endTime":2426.574,"body":"around water needs land use, and even"},{"startTime":2420.054,"endTime":2426.574,"body":"a comparison in emissions sort of"},{"startTime":2426.844,"endTime":2432.504,"body":"what what level of emissions we need"},{"startTime":2426.844,"endTime":2432.504,"body":"to spend in order to get the savings"},{"startTime":2432.6040000000003,"endTime":2434.6240000000003,"body":"of moving away from fossil fuels."},{"startTime":2434.654,"endTime":2436.8740000000003,"body":"And it's sort of, you know, fascinating."},{"startTime":2437.844,"endTime":2442.7690000000002,"body":"What I wanted to to pick up on in terms"},{"startTime":2437.844,"endTime":2442.7690000000002,"body":"of, you know, what do we do about that?"},{"startTime":2442.799,"endTime":2445.339,"body":"And kind of how do we"},{"startTime":2442.799,"endTime":2445.339,"body":"think about this issue?"},{"startTime":2446.089,"endTime":2452.069,"body":"The mineral space is incredibly messy"},{"startTime":2446.089,"endTime":2452.069,"body":"and complex for a number of reasons."},{"startTime":2452.489,"endTime":2456.389,"body":"And now having worked on it for a couple"},{"startTime":2452.489,"endTime":2456.389,"body":"of years, I'm by no means an expert,"},{"startTime":2456.389,"endTime":2461.359,"body":"but I'm learning, learning every day"},{"startTime":2456.389,"endTime":2461.359,"body":"and trying to find different ways of"},{"startTime":2461.379,"endTime":2463.369,"body":"understanding this very complex issue."},{"startTime":2463.7490000000003,"endTime":2470.794,"body":"And so I wanted to share kind of five"},{"startTime":2463.7490000000003,"endTime":2470.794,"body":"different points about this issue that"},{"startTime":2470.794,"endTime":2475.064,"body":"we need to consider before then I kind"},{"startTime":2470.794,"endTime":2475.064,"body":"of segue into what do we do about it?"},{"startTime":2475.1040000000003,"endTime":2478.164,"body":"Or what do, what do, what does"},{"startTime":2475.1040000000003,"endTime":2478.164,"body":"ClimateWorks think we should do about it?"},{"startTime":2480.074,"endTime":2487.204,"body":"So the first thing to note is that there,"},{"startTime":2480.074,"endTime":2487.204,"body":"the reason we're talking and thinking"},{"startTime":2487.204,"endTime":2495.414,"body":"about minerals today is because of"},{"startTime":2487.204,"endTime":2495.414,"body":"incredible progress that we have made"},{"startTime":2495.864,"endTime":2499.004,"body":"on renewables uptake and EV uptake."},{"startTime":2499.1440000000002,"endTime":2503.094,"body":"Okay, so just a quick kind"},{"startTime":2499.1440000000002,"endTime":2503.094,"body":"of a stat reminder for folks."},{"startTime":2503.434,"endTime":2509.184,"body":"Is that renewable energy sources"},{"startTime":2503.434,"endTime":2509.184,"body":"are now projected to overtake coal"},{"startTime":2509.194,"endTime":2512.674,"body":"for electricity generation by 2025."},{"startTime":2512.884,"endTime":2513.714,"body":"That's huge."},{"startTime":2514.1440000000002,"endTime":2519.634,"body":"And then in a couple of a couple"},{"startTime":2514.1440000000002,"endTime":2519.634,"body":"more years by 2028 renewables are"},{"startTime":2519.634,"endTime":2524.409,"body":"expected to account for 42 percent"},{"startTime":2519.634,"endTime":2524.409,"body":"of global electricity generation."},{"startTime":2524.459,"endTime":2525.209,"body":"That's huge."},{"startTime":2525.709,"endTime":2529.709,"body":"That's way, way, way more than we've"},{"startTime":2525.709,"endTime":2529.709,"body":"achieved, you know, in kind of, since"},{"startTime":2529.709,"endTime":2533.709,"body":"we first learned that climate crisis"},{"startTime":2529.709,"endTime":2533.709,"body":"is an issue in the seventies, right?"},{"startTime":2534.279,"endTime":2538.369,"body":"The other thing is we now have"},{"startTime":2534.279,"endTime":2538.369,"body":"40 million EVs on the road."},{"startTime":2538.879,"endTime":2544.469,"body":"I remember still working at ClimateWorks,"},{"startTime":2538.879,"endTime":2544.469,"body":"you know, eight, seven years ago, when"},{"startTime":2544.469,"endTime":2550.279,"body":"we were keeping an eye out as we were"},{"startTime":2544.469,"endTime":2550.279,"body":"hitting our 1 million of EVs on the road."},{"startTime":2550.959,"endTime":2552.069,"body":"And that was huge."},{"startTime":2552.069,"endTime":2553.319,"body":"It was a huge moment."},{"startTime":2553.859,"endTime":2558.819,"body":"And so we've, we're having, we're"},{"startTime":2553.859,"endTime":2558.819,"body":"having this amazing progress, right?"},{"startTime":2558.859,"endTime":2562.569,"body":"Of course, more is needed and we have"},{"startTime":2558.859,"endTime":2562.569,"body":"to go faster and no one's debating that."},{"startTime":2563.119,"endTime":2567.469,"body":"But so all of a sudden we're"},{"startTime":2563.119,"endTime":2567.469,"body":"building all this stuff."},{"startTime":2567.569,"endTime":2572.359,"body":"And there's a point in which there's"},{"startTime":2567.569,"endTime":2572.359,"body":"a, there's kind of a, a collective"},{"startTime":2572.369,"endTime":2577.809,"body":"awareness that, wait a minute, in order"},{"startTime":2572.369,"endTime":2577.809,"body":"for us to keep building the stuff, the"},{"startTime":2577.809,"endTime":2583.309,"body":"clean technologies, we need to make"},{"startTime":2577.809,"endTime":2583.309,"body":"sure that we're manufacturing them fast"},{"startTime":2583.309,"endTime":2585.649,"body":"enough, right, to be then put in use."},{"startTime":2586.279,"endTime":2590.829,"body":"And then we also need to make sure"},{"startTime":2586.279,"endTime":2590.829,"body":"that we have enough stuff of which"},{"startTime":2590.859,"endTime":2595.089,"body":"clean technologies are made from,"},{"startTime":2590.859,"endTime":2595.089,"body":"which is all these minerals, right?"},{"startTime":2595.719,"endTime":2601.2290000000003,"body":"And so I, sometimes I really want to"},{"startTime":2595.719,"endTime":2601.2290000000003,"body":"point this out because sometimes there's"},{"startTime":2601.2290000000003,"endTime":2606.344,"body":"a, there's the sense of like, You"},{"startTime":2601.2290000000003,"endTime":2606.344,"body":"know, how come we haven't, how come we"},{"startTime":2606.344,"endTime":2607.994,"body":"didn't think about this 10 years ago?"},{"startTime":2608.424,"endTime":2610.954,"body":"Or why aren't we thinking"},{"startTime":2608.424,"endTime":2610.954,"body":"about this 10 years from now?"},{"startTime":2610.964,"endTime":2615.8940000000002,"body":"Well, it's literally, it wasn't top"},{"startTime":2610.964,"endTime":2615.8940000000002,"body":"of anyone's mind because we haven't"},{"startTime":2615.8940000000002,"endTime":2620.6040000000003,"body":"had as much progress as we've had"},{"startTime":2615.8940000000002,"endTime":2620.6040000000003,"body":"on, you know, renewables uptake."},{"startTime":2621.794,"endTime":2623.494,"body":"So, okay."},{"startTime":2623.494,"endTime":2626.974,"body":"So we have all these raw materials"},{"startTime":2623.494,"endTime":2626.974,"body":"that we need in order to keep"},{"startTime":2626.974,"endTime":2628.284,"body":"building clean technologies."},{"startTime":2628.984,"endTime":2632.714,"body":"The second thing that I wanted to"},{"startTime":2628.984,"endTime":2632.714,"body":"point out is that this heightened"},{"startTime":2632.744,"endTime":2639.594,"body":"awareness has created what I call is"},{"startTime":2632.744,"endTime":2639.594,"body":"sort of a, an advocacy convergence."},{"startTime":2640.084,"endTime":2644.824,"body":"It's, it's a convergence across"},{"startTime":2640.084,"endTime":2644.824,"body":"advocacy communities around the"},{"startTime":2644.824,"endTime":2648.634,"body":"question of minerals and it's massive."},{"startTime":2648.714,"endTime":2649.054,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2649.054,"endTime":2655.1040000000003,"body":"So up until now, or up until recently,"},{"startTime":2649.054,"endTime":2655.1040000000003,"body":"you know, even within the climate"},{"startTime":2655.154,"endTime":2658.634,"body":"advocacy community, you have your"},{"startTime":2655.154,"endTime":2658.634,"body":"transportation people, you have your"},{"startTime":2658.694,"endTime":2663.254,"body":"steel people, you have your coal"},{"startTime":2658.694,"endTime":2663.254,"body":"people, you know, and everyone's just"},{"startTime":2663.254,"endTime":2664.904,"body":"kind of doing their thing, right."},{"startTime":2665.334,"endTime":2666.534,"body":"But as soon as you have."},{"startTime":2666.799,"endTime":2671.279,"body":"measurable uptake in renewables,"},{"startTime":2666.799,"endTime":2671.279,"body":"everyone's starting to realize how"},{"startTime":2671.289,"endTime":2675.389,"body":"all of our work intersects, and"},{"startTime":2671.289,"endTime":2675.389,"body":"it's no different for mineral space."},{"startTime":2675.909,"endTime":2681.569,"body":"And the intersection really comes from"},{"startTime":2675.909,"endTime":2681.569,"body":"a number of different thematic areas,"},{"startTime":2681.579,"endTime":2688.766,"body":"such as conservation, human rights,"},{"startTime":2681.579,"endTime":2688.766,"body":"resource governance for minerals,"},{"startTime":2688.8160000000003,"endTime":2694.446,"body":"obviously indigenous rights and kind"},{"startTime":2688.8160000000003,"endTime":2694.446,"body":"of the history there obviously climate"},{"startTime":2694.496,"endTime":2699.596,"body":"advocates ocean conservation folks, land"},{"startTime":2694.496,"endTime":2699.596,"body":"rights folks, deforestation folks, there's"},{"startTime":2699.596,"endTime":2704.676,"body":"just a lot and to kind of put this into"},{"startTime":2699.596,"endTime":2704.676,"body":"into a little bit more of an example."},{"startTime":2704.676,"endTime":2710.301,"body":"So, for instance, You know, conservation"},{"startTime":2704.676,"endTime":2710.301,"body":"and forest preservation advocates"},{"startTime":2710.771,"endTime":2716.631,"body":"might be worried about pressure"},{"startTime":2710.771,"endTime":2716.631,"body":"for new mineral extraction because"},{"startTime":2716.731,"endTime":2722.031,"body":"they have been working for decades"},{"startTime":2716.731,"endTime":2722.031,"body":"to try to conserve nature, right?"},{"startTime":2722.391,"endTime":2725.021,"body":"To conserve the very last"},{"startTime":2722.391,"endTime":2725.021,"body":"places that we have around the"},{"startTime":2725.031,"endTime":2726.621,"body":"world and same with forests."},{"startTime":2726.621,"endTime":2732.117,"body":"And so some of those advocates are"},{"startTime":2726.621,"endTime":2732.117,"body":"fighting deforestation in places like"},{"startTime":2732.117,"endTime":2738.397,"body":"Indonesia, Brazil, are now seeing that"},{"startTime":2732.117,"endTime":2738.397,"body":"forests are, in some cases, being cleared"},{"startTime":2738.407,"endTime":2740.067,"body":"for mining, which is a huge issue."},{"startTime":2740.657,"endTime":2745.292,"body":"In the same way, there's also kind"},{"startTime":2740.657,"endTime":2745.292,"body":"of this recognition from the climate"},{"startTime":2745.322,"endTime":2749.452,"body":"advocates, which are like, wait a"},{"startTime":2745.322,"endTime":2749.452,"body":"minute, we need to lower these emissions."},{"startTime":2749.982,"endTime":2751.232,"body":"So we need the staff."},{"startTime":2751.272,"endTime":2756.192,"body":"And so, you know, they're like trying"},{"startTime":2751.272,"endTime":2756.192,"body":"to understand what is the issue here."},{"startTime":2756.232,"endTime":2760.512,"body":"And so you have these like communities"},{"startTime":2756.232,"endTime":2760.512,"body":"coming together that are starting to"},{"startTime":2760.572,"endTime":2764.852,"body":"have to learn each other's language and"},{"startTime":2760.572,"endTime":2764.852,"body":"have to understand how to work together"},{"startTime":2764.852,"endTime":2770.717,"body":"because no one wants a green on green"},{"startTime":2764.852,"endTime":2770.717,"body":"you know, standoff because obviously"},{"startTime":2770.717,"endTime":2772.127,"body":"the fossil fuels will just keep winning."},{"startTime":2772.717,"endTime":2775.0170000000003,"body":"So let me just go to a few"},{"startTime":2772.717,"endTime":2775.0170000000003,"body":"other points very quickly."},{"startTime":2775.0170000000003,"endTime":2780.407,"body":"So, the other piece to keep in"},{"startTime":2775.0170000000003,"endTime":2780.407,"body":"mind here is the, the geographic"},{"startTime":2780.437,"endTime":2787.607,"body":"geopolitical north and south dynamics"},{"startTime":2780.437,"endTime":2787.607,"body":"and specifically sort of the, the, the"},{"startTime":2787.607,"endTime":2789.667,"body":"recognition of embedded inequality."},{"startTime":2790.0170000000003,"endTime":2795.487,"body":"The reason why this really matters in"},{"startTime":2790.0170000000003,"endTime":2795.487,"body":"the minerals discourse is is kind of"},{"startTime":2795.497,"endTime":2800.837,"body":"the simplified way to describe it is"},{"startTime":2795.497,"endTime":2800.837,"body":"that the wealthy nations such as US"},{"startTime":2800.837,"endTime":2806.077,"body":"and EU are sort of driving the demand"},{"startTime":2800.837,"endTime":2806.077,"body":"for these minerals in a way, right?"},{"startTime":2806.087,"endTime":2807.437,"body":"Of course, China is too."},{"startTime":2807.437,"endTime":2810.547,"body":"They're a huge manufacturing"},{"startTime":2807.437,"endTime":2810.547,"body":"hub for clean technologies."},{"startTime":2811.127,"endTime":2818.692,"body":"But so because they are in this demand"},{"startTime":2811.127,"endTime":2818.692,"body":"structure, they are looking to mineral"},{"startTime":2818.692,"endTime":2824.512,"body":"rich countries, which tend to be in the"},{"startTime":2818.692,"endTime":2824.512,"body":"geopolitical global South to provide"},{"startTime":2824.522,"endTime":2826.492,"body":"these resources for them, right?"},{"startTime":2826.522,"endTime":2831.962,"body":"And so there, there's this recognition"},{"startTime":2826.522,"endTime":2831.962,"body":"from mineral rich countries, some are"},{"startTime":2831.962,"endTime":2836.572,"body":"low income, some are middle income"},{"startTime":2831.962,"endTime":2836.572,"body":"that are like, wait a minute, We don't"},{"startTime":2836.572,"endTime":2839.052,"body":"want to just sell our raw minerals."},{"startTime":2839.072,"endTime":2844.702,"body":"We have been doing that for decades and"},{"startTime":2839.072,"endTime":2844.702,"body":"we are struggling to develop and to secure"},{"startTime":2844.712,"endTime":2846.752,"body":"economic prosperity for our citizens."},{"startTime":2846.782,"endTime":2851.852,"body":"So if we're going to do this transition"},{"startTime":2846.782,"endTime":2851.852,"body":"and if you need our minerals, you kind"},{"startTime":2851.852,"endTime":2859.082,"body":"of the, the wealthy countries, we need"},{"startTime":2851.852,"endTime":2859.082,"body":"to think about how you help us move up"},{"startTime":2859.082,"endTime":2863.734,"body":"the value chain and how you know, the"},{"startTime":2859.082,"endTime":2863.734,"body":"mineral rich countries really want to"},{"startTime":2863.734,"endTime":2869.889,"body":"develop and expand their industrial"},{"startTime":2863.734,"endTime":2869.889,"body":"capacity and they You know, it, it's"},{"startTime":2869.889,"endTime":2874.419,"body":"sort of that conversation doesn't"},{"startTime":2869.889,"endTime":2874.419,"body":"always square with the perspective"},{"startTime":2874.429,"endTime":2876.009,"body":"from, you know, the wealthy West."},{"startTime":2877.466,"endTime":2880.056,"body":"The two other pieces here"},{"startTime":2877.466,"endTime":2880.056,"body":"that are really important."},{"startTime":2880.116,"endTime":2882.976,"body":"One also is the just transition."},{"startTime":2883.776,"endTime":2889.136,"body":"So again, heightened discussions about"},{"startTime":2883.776,"endTime":2889.136,"body":"minerals for the energy transition"},{"startTime":2889.536,"endTime":2894.616,"body":"is putting to the forefront, the"},{"startTime":2889.536,"endTime":2894.616,"body":"framework of just transition."},{"startTime":2894.616,"endTime":2897.416,"body":"Now there's a lot of different"},{"startTime":2894.616,"endTime":2897.416,"body":"definitions of what it means, but"},{"startTime":2897.416,"endTime":2902.516,"body":"inherently what it says is that are"},{"startTime":2897.416,"endTime":2902.516,"body":"we setting the conditions in place to"},{"startTime":2902.516,"endTime":2907.146,"body":"make sure that everyone benefits from"},{"startTime":2902.516,"endTime":2907.146,"body":"the transition, not just the people"},{"startTime":2907.146,"endTime":2909.166,"body":"that are already benefiting from it."},{"startTime":2909.2960000000003,"endTime":2909.626,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2910.176,"endTime":2916.536,"body":"And so of course that plays into the"},{"startTime":2910.176,"endTime":2916.536,"body":"minerals discourse because of frontline"},{"startTime":2916.536,"endTime":2921.131,"body":"mining communities and mineral rich"},{"startTime":2916.536,"endTime":2921.131,"body":"countries that are sort of struggling to"},{"startTime":2921.141,"endTime":2927.521,"body":"retain value from their resources and the"},{"startTime":2921.141,"endTime":2927.521,"body":"very last piece is kind of massive and,"},{"startTime":2927.751,"endTime":2932.681,"body":"blankets all of these other recognitions"},{"startTime":2927.751,"endTime":2932.681,"body":"is sort of the geopolitics of everything."},{"startTime":2933.1910000000003,"endTime":2939.898,"body":"You know, the resource nationalism, the"},{"startTime":2933.1910000000003,"endTime":2939.898,"body":"resource motivated armed conflicts that"},{"startTime":2939.898,"endTime":2944.268,"body":"are kind of surrounding some minerals"},{"startTime":2939.898,"endTime":2944.268,"body":"discourse, trade restrictions, and a"},{"startTime":2944.268,"endTime":2948.744,"body":"lot of different sort of geopolitical"},{"startTime":2944.268,"endTime":2948.744,"body":"levers that are increasing the"},{"startTime":2948.744,"endTime":2953.704,"body":"complexity of this mineral space and"},{"startTime":2948.744,"endTime":2953.704,"body":"are just making it more difficult for"},{"startTime":2953.704,"endTime":2955.424,"body":"folks to figure out what to do next."},{"startTime":2959.404,"endTime":2961.464,"body":"So what do we do next?"},{"startTime":2961.649,"endTime":2964.416,"body":"Ha ha ha ha ha"},{"startTime":2964.484,"endTime":2971.784,"body":"So the way that we see, there's a few"},{"startTime":2964.484,"endTime":2971.784,"body":"things that we see are core components"},{"startTime":2971.794,"endTime":2973.664,"body":"of moving forward in this space."},{"startTime":2973.704,"endTime":2977.994,"body":"And it's something that, you know,"},{"startTime":2973.704,"endTime":2977.994,"body":"ClimateWorks is pursuing and doing so"},{"startTime":2977.994,"endTime":2982.799,"body":"with the a lot of support from our amazing"},{"startTime":2977.994,"endTime":2982.799,"body":"partners that are in the field every day."},{"startTime":2983.529,"endTime":2991.609,"body":"So first and foremost, we really"},{"startTime":2983.529,"endTime":2991.609,"body":"need to be thinking about what does"},{"startTime":2991.7490000000003,"endTime":2994.409,"body":"responsible mineral supply look like."},{"startTime":2995.159,"endTime":3000.989,"body":"There has to be a clear understanding"},{"startTime":2995.159,"endTime":3000.989,"body":"across communities of climate"},{"startTime":3001.029,"endTime":3011.589,"body":"advocates that it is not possible"},{"startTime":3001.029,"endTime":3011.589,"body":"or even acceptable to go after any"},{"startTime":3011.649,"endTime":3013.959,"body":"mineral supply for clean technologies."},{"startTime":3014.469,"endTime":3018.9790000000003,"body":"We very specifically need that"},{"startTime":3014.469,"endTime":3018.9790000000003,"body":"supply to be responsible supply."},{"startTime":3019.129,"endTime":3019.549,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3020.2690000000002,"endTime":3022.909,"body":"And there's a lot of disagreement"},{"startTime":3020.2690000000002,"endTime":3022.909,"body":"about what that means."},{"startTime":3023.384,"endTime":3029.034,"body":"But in very simple terms, responsible"},{"startTime":3023.384,"endTime":3029.034,"body":"mineral supply is not the status quo."},{"startTime":3029.284,"endTime":3035.994,"body":"It's not what we have today, you know,"},{"startTime":3029.284,"endTime":3035.994,"body":"it's, it's supply that is where the"},{"startTime":3035.994,"endTime":3041.904,"body":"resources are extracted in with less harm"},{"startTime":3035.994,"endTime":3041.904,"body":"to the communities, to the environment."},{"startTime":3042.074,"endTime":3044.164,"body":"And not only that, there's a benefit."},{"startTime":3044.399,"endTime":3044.739,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3044.759,"endTime":3049.4990000000003,"body":"There's a, there is a benefit system"},{"startTime":3044.759,"endTime":3049.4990000000003,"body":"that is benefiting the communities."},{"startTime":3049.839,"endTime":3055.429,"body":"There's a, some sort of restoration system"},{"startTime":3049.839,"endTime":3055.429,"body":"that restores the surrounding habitat."},{"startTime":3055.429,"endTime":3057.609,"body":"So it's not just the"},{"startTime":3055.429,"endTime":3057.609,"body":"minimum of reducing harm."},{"startTime":3057.609,"endTime":3059.219,"body":"It's like, how do we make it better?"},{"startTime":3059.2490000000003,"endTime":3059.529,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3059.549,"endTime":3062.759,"body":"Because that is what effectively"},{"startTime":3059.549,"endTime":3062.759,"body":"over long term is going to"},{"startTime":3062.759,"endTime":3064.659,"body":"make this more sustainable."},{"startTime":3065.989,"endTime":3070.299,"body":"And the second piece of this is how"},{"startTime":3065.989,"endTime":3070.299,"body":"do we set the conditions in place"},{"startTime":3070.299,"endTime":3076.949,"body":"to continuously capture the supply"},{"startTime":3070.299,"endTime":3076.949,"body":"that's already in circulation, right?"},{"startTime":3076.949,"endTime":3081.489,"body":"So it's the primary supply of"},{"startTime":3076.949,"endTime":3081.489,"body":"extraction and the secondary supply"},{"startTime":3081.4990000000003,"endTime":3083.159,"body":"that is sort of recycled, right?"},{"startTime":3083.699,"endTime":3086.7490000000003,"body":"And so you have to tackle"},{"startTime":3083.699,"endTime":3086.7490000000003,"body":"those two in tandem."},{"startTime":3087.369,"endTime":3095.379,"body":"And doing so, we will, over time, reduce"},{"startTime":3087.369,"endTime":3095.379,"body":"the reliance on extraction only goes to"},{"startTime":3095.379,"endTime":3099.179,"body":"the point that you mentioned earlier,"},{"startTime":3095.379,"endTime":3099.179,"body":"which is with minerals we really have the"},{"startTime":3099.179,"endTime":3105.339,"body":"opportunity to create something that's"},{"startTime":3099.179,"endTime":3105.339,"body":"truly circular and over time have a,"},{"startTime":3105.409,"endTime":3108.0190000000002,"body":"you know, minerals have a clean energy."},{"startTime":3108.349,"endTime":3111.639,"body":"System that is more"},{"startTime":3108.349,"endTime":3111.639,"body":"circular than not right."},{"startTime":3111.639,"endTime":3112.309,"body":"So maybe we do."},{"startTime":3112.339,"endTime":3114.7690000000002,"body":"We still have a little bit of"},{"startTime":3112.339,"endTime":3114.7690000000002,"body":"extraction, but it's really to fill"},{"startTime":3114.7690000000002,"endTime":3116.389,"body":"some gaps or account for growth."},{"startTime":3116.9990000000003,"endTime":3121.049,"body":"But the vast majority of inputs comes"},{"startTime":3116.9990000000003,"endTime":3121.049,"body":"from From this recycled content."},{"startTime":3121.539,"endTime":3124.7490000000003,"body":"And so that's sort of on the"},{"startTime":3121.539,"endTime":3124.7490000000003,"body":"supply has to be responsible."},{"startTime":3124.859,"endTime":3130.619,"body":"And there has to be streams to feed the"},{"startTime":3124.859,"endTime":3130.619,"body":"supply that are both primary and secondary"},{"startTime":3130.649,"endTime":3136.719,"body":"in order to over time have a sort of a"},{"startTime":3130.649,"endTime":3136.719,"body":"resilient use cycle of these minerals."},{"startTime":3137.094,"endTime":3139.424,"body":"and really benefit from"},{"startTime":3137.094,"endTime":3139.424,"body":"their properties, right?"},{"startTime":3139.454,"endTime":3141.324,"body":"Which the fossil fuels don't really have."},{"startTime":3141.779,"endTime":3141.969,"body":"Yep"},{"startTime":3142.3540000000003,"endTime":3149.954,"body":"The second piece of this work is really"},{"startTime":3142.3540000000003,"endTime":3149.954,"body":"thinking about how to support mineral"},{"startTime":3149.954,"endTime":3156.964,"body":"rich countries that are looking to"},{"startTime":3149.954,"endTime":3156.964,"body":"move up the value chain and how does,"},{"startTime":3157.734,"endTime":3161.6440000000002,"body":"you know, how do we do that in a way"},{"startTime":3157.734,"endTime":3161.6440000000002,"body":"that is kind of durable over time?"},{"startTime":3162.134,"endTime":3165.6240000000003,"body":"So one quick example of that"},{"startTime":3162.134,"endTime":3165.6240000000003,"body":"could be a place like Chile."},{"startTime":3166.194,"endTime":3170.577,"body":"Chile is a major producer of copper"},{"startTime":3166.194,"endTime":3170.577,"body":"and lithium, and they are really"},{"startTime":3170.577,"endTime":3174.757,"body":"looking to benefit and build out"},{"startTime":3170.577,"endTime":3174.757,"body":"and, and, and benefit from their"},{"startTime":3174.757,"endTime":3177.157,"body":"resources to develop further."},{"startTime":3177.917,"endTime":3186.2870000000003,"body":"And Chile is also incredibly constrained"},{"startTime":3177.917,"endTime":3186.2870000000003,"body":"due to their water situation, which is"},{"startTime":3186.297,"endTime":3191.997,"body":"that they are kind of located at a or"},{"startTime":3186.297,"endTime":3191.997,"body":"they have a lot of places where they"},{"startTime":3191.997,"endTime":3194.5170000000003,"body":"extract that are extremely, extremely dry."},{"startTime":3194.5570000000002,"endTime":3197.197,"body":"And so water management"},{"startTime":3194.5570000000002,"endTime":3197.197,"body":"becomes a huge issue here."},{"startTime":3197.707,"endTime":3202.237,"body":"And so the question is, what can"},{"startTime":3197.707,"endTime":3202.237,"body":"philanthropy or can advocates do to"},{"startTime":3202.247,"endTime":3209.247,"body":"help Chile meet their vision, but also"},{"startTime":3202.247,"endTime":3209.247,"body":"do it in a way that thinks about the"},{"startTime":3209.247,"endTime":3213.837,"body":"long terms of sustainability of the"},{"startTime":3209.247,"endTime":3213.837,"body":"supply, meaning that we can't go too"},{"startTime":3213.837,"endTime":3220.1620000000003,"body":"fast, too soon, if it means that it"},{"startTime":3213.837,"endTime":3220.1620000000003,"body":"will put the country at a place of"},{"startTime":3220.202,"endTime":3221.862,"body":"running out of water in the future."},{"startTime":3222.987,"endTime":3224.457,"body":"Sure Sure sure sure sure"},{"startTime":3226.467,"endTime":3231.727,"body":"If I give you a magic wand now"},{"startTime":3226.467,"endTime":3231.727,"body":"that allows you to make one"},{"startTime":3231.747,"endTime":3235.377,"body":"change What would that change be?"},{"startTime":3239.052,"endTime":3240.502,"body":"This feels like a trick question."},{"startTime":3240.647,"endTime":3240.797,"body":"Ha"},{"startTime":3242.952,"endTime":3244.882,"body":"What would that change be?"},{"startTime":3246.212,"endTime":3246.872,"body":"Hmm."},{"startTime":3247.768,"endTime":3253.218,"body":"I think the change would have to"},{"startTime":3247.768,"endTime":3253.218,"body":"be related to the mining industry"},{"startTime":3253.983,"endTime":3254.313,"body":"Okay"},{"startTime":3254.488,"endTime":3255.318,"body":"in some way."},{"startTime":3258.098,"endTime":3267.6820000000002,"body":"I think that we are really in need of"},{"startTime":3258.098,"endTime":3267.6820000000002,"body":"a new mining company, like a new new"},{"startTime":3267.712,"endTime":3275.052,"body":"extraction model or new way a mining"},{"startTime":3267.712,"endTime":3275.052,"body":"company can have a social benefit,"},{"startTime":3276.122,"endTime":3281.762,"body":"which is, which is effectively what we"},{"startTime":3276.122,"endTime":3281.762,"body":"desperately need if we are to transition"},{"startTime":3282.712,"endTime":3285.072,"body":"to clean technologies using minerals."},{"startTime":3285.452,"endTime":3289.222,"body":"We just, we can't do it with the"},{"startTime":3285.452,"endTime":3289.222,"body":"status quo of the mining industry today"},{"startTime":3289.852,"endTime":3293.032,"body":"because we will never get to the energy"},{"startTime":3289.852,"endTime":3293.032,"body":"transition that we're looking for."},{"startTime":3293.062,"endTime":3297.312,"body":"And so I think with a new mining"},{"startTime":3293.062,"endTime":3297.312,"body":"company and a new way to do business"},{"startTime":3297.332,"endTime":3303.352,"body":"and engage and really be, you know,"},{"startTime":3297.332,"endTime":3303.352,"body":"core partners, equal partners to"},{"startTime":3303.352,"endTime":3305.212,"body":"the communities that are impacted."},{"startTime":3306.792,"endTime":3311.422,"body":"If we have that, I think we have"},{"startTime":3306.792,"endTime":3311.422,"body":"a much stronger foundation to"},{"startTime":3311.4320000000002,"endTime":3317.982,"body":"build off of and to see how, what,"},{"startTime":3311.4320000000002,"endTime":3317.982,"body":"and where we can replicate this"},{"startTime":3319.2670000000003,"endTime":3320.442,"body":"Nice Thanks Nice."},{"startTime":3321.802,"endTime":3326.032,"body":"What would be some actionable"},{"startTime":3321.802,"endTime":3326.032,"body":"steps our listeners can take"},{"startTime":3326.042,"endTime":3327.332,"body":"to support the transition?"},{"startTime":3328.745,"endTime":3329.855,"body":"Excellent question."},{"startTime":3330.465,"endTime":3332.585,"body":"For folks that are looking to."},{"startTime":3333.225,"endTime":3338.475,"body":"donate or kind of, monetarily support"},{"startTime":3333.225,"endTime":3338.475,"body":"the energy transition, I would recommend"},{"startTime":3338.495,"endTime":3342.695,"body":"into looking a couple, into a couple"},{"startTime":3338.495,"endTime":3342.695,"body":"of NGOs that we work very closely with."},{"startTime":3343.265,"endTime":3344.555,"body":"And I'll just name three."},{"startTime":3344.565,"endTime":3349.36,"body":"So one is earthworks based in the U S"},{"startTime":3344.565,"endTime":3349.36,"body":"working globally around extractives and"},{"startTime":3349.4900000000002,"endTime":3352.19,"body":"issues both on minerals and fossil fuels."},{"startTime":3352.71,"endTime":3354.44,"body":"Another one is Earth Justice."},{"startTime":3354.4900000000002,"endTime":3355.73,"body":"They're also based in the U."},{"startTime":3355.73,"endTime":3356.12,"body":"S."},{"startTime":3356.17,"endTime":3361.55,"body":"They do a lot of work with indigenous"},{"startTime":3356.17,"endTime":3361.55,"body":"and native peoples in the U."},{"startTime":3361.55,"endTime":3361.78,"body":"S."},{"startTime":3361.81,"endTime":3367.13,"body":"and helping them bring lawsuits against"},{"startTime":3361.81,"endTime":3367.13,"body":"various extractive companies when"},{"startTime":3367.2000000000003,"endTime":3368.88,"body":"the communities have been bypassed."},{"startTime":3369.39,"endTime":3373.93,"body":"And then the third one is Transport and"},{"startTime":3369.39,"endTime":3373.93,"body":"Environment, which is an NGO prolific NGO"},{"startTime":3373.9700000000003,"endTime":3376.2200000000003,"body":"in the EU that we work very closely with."},{"startTime":3376.65,"endTime":3380.62,"body":"I would recommend, you know, if you want"},{"startTime":3376.65,"endTime":3380.62,"body":"to know more information about any of"},{"startTime":3380.62,"endTime":3385.17,"body":"the topics that Tom and I talked about,"},{"startTime":3380.62,"endTime":3385.17,"body":"I would say Transport and Environment"},{"startTime":3385.25,"endTime":3389.01,"body":"has a wealth of information, very"},{"startTime":3385.25,"endTime":3389.01,"body":"readable, great reports that they put"},{"startTime":3389.01,"endTime":3391.46,"body":"out and the other partners do as well."},{"startTime":3392.38,"endTime":3397.59,"body":"I think the other thing that I would"},{"startTime":3392.38,"endTime":3397.59,"body":"like to say maybe and come back to,"},{"startTime":3398.03,"endTime":3402.75,"body":"you know, the behavior change, I think"},{"startTime":3398.03,"endTime":3402.75,"body":"behavior change is very difficult."},{"startTime":3402.78,"endTime":3407.76,"body":"Having personally been navigating that"},{"startTime":3402.78,"endTime":3407.76,"body":"and kind of working in the realm of"},{"startTime":3407.76,"endTime":3412.02,"body":"climate, climate mitigation kind of"},{"startTime":3407.76,"endTime":3412.02,"body":"climate work, it's something that I"},{"startTime":3412.05,"endTime":3417.31,"body":"constantly think about and I know how"},{"startTime":3412.05,"endTime":3417.31,"body":"easy it is to get discouraged from"},{"startTime":3417.31,"endTime":3420.05,"body":"making small changes in everyday life."},{"startTime":3420.4500000000003,"endTime":3423.77,"body":"But I can't overstate the"},{"startTime":3420.4500000000003,"endTime":3423.77,"body":"importance of that work."},{"startTime":3424.27,"endTime":3431.6,"body":"Not only because it is your personal"},{"startTime":3424.27,"endTime":3431.6,"body":"contribution to, you know, the energy"},{"startTime":3431.62,"endTime":3437.377,"body":"transition, but it's also, there's"},{"startTime":3431.62,"endTime":3437.377,"body":"a, Infectiousness that comes with it."},{"startTime":3437.387,"endTime":3444.397,"body":"You know, when you make a change,"},{"startTime":3437.387,"endTime":3444.397,"body":"your friends notice your, your"},{"startTime":3444.407,"endTime":3447.257,"body":"neighbors notice your family notices."},{"startTime":3447.3070000000002,"endTime":3451.997,"body":"And a lot of times, even without"},{"startTime":3447.3070000000002,"endTime":3451.997,"body":"encouraging them to make the change"},{"startTime":3451.997,"endTime":3456.277,"body":"as well, they themselves have a moment"},{"startTime":3451.997,"endTime":3456.277,"body":"in which they can reflect on whether"},{"startTime":3456.277,"endTime":3457.677,"body":"they can do this change as well."},{"startTime":3457.687,"endTime":3461.407,"body":"So that to me is, is very, very important."},{"startTime":3461.742,"endTime":3466.152,"body":"And it, it there's a whole range of"},{"startTime":3461.742,"endTime":3466.152,"body":"things, and I'll just quickly list them."},{"startTime":3466.212,"endTime":3471.982,"body":"Obviously, public transportation switching"},{"startTime":3466.212,"endTime":3471.982,"body":"to EVs, switching to renewable power"},{"startTime":3471.982,"endTime":3476.692,"body":"regeneration for your home or advocating"},{"startTime":3471.982,"endTime":3476.692,"body":"within your building for the same switch."},{"startTime":3476.702,"endTime":3482.792,"body":"If you're able to composting, if you"},{"startTime":3476.702,"endTime":3482.792,"body":"have the means food is a major, food"},{"startTime":3482.792,"endTime":3484.502,"body":"waste is a major source of emissions."},{"startTime":3484.982,"endTime":3490.132,"body":"It's, super difficult to do sometimes"},{"startTime":3484.982,"endTime":3490.132,"body":"in cities, but there's always, there's"},{"startTime":3490.1420000000003,"endTime":3495.502,"body":"always some community garden or kind"},{"startTime":3490.1420000000003,"endTime":3495.502,"body":"of a great set of you know, NGOs"},{"startTime":3495.502,"endTime":3497.072,"body":"or advocates that I think can help."},{"startTime":3497.6420000000003,"endTime":3499.422,"body":"And then another major one is."},{"startTime":3500.047,"endTime":3505.187,"body":"shifting away from plastic as much as"},{"startTime":3500.047,"endTime":3505.187,"body":"possible, especially single use plastic."},{"startTime":3505.217,"endTime":3508.757,"body":"And that was, that has been"},{"startTime":3505.217,"endTime":3508.757,"body":"my kind of journey and focus"},{"startTime":3508.757,"endTime":3509.837,"body":"in the last couple of years."},{"startTime":3509.837,"endTime":3513.107,"body":"And I can tell you that it's"},{"startTime":3509.837,"endTime":3513.107,"body":"very difficult because plastic is"},{"startTime":3513.107,"endTime":3515.297,"body":"everywhere, but it's not impossible."},{"startTime":3515.327,"endTime":3520.172,"body":"And when you find those, those"},{"startTime":3515.327,"endTime":3520.172,"body":"alternatives that are also cost effective,"},{"startTime":3520.192,"endTime":3522.442,"body":"it's, it just feels so much better."},{"startTime":3522.492,"endTime":3525.482,"body":"And ultimately it is the"},{"startTime":3522.492,"endTime":3525.482,"body":"direction we're heading at."},{"startTime":3525.492,"endTime":3531.742,"body":"I know in the EU, EU is looking to phase"},{"startTime":3525.492,"endTime":3531.742,"body":"out plastic for food, I believe by 2030"},{"startTime":3531.742,"endTime":3533.622,"body":"or something like that, which is great."},{"startTime":3533.652,"endTime":3537.842,"body":"And so you'll be already ahead of"},{"startTime":3533.652,"endTime":3537.842,"body":"the curve, but it's just I, I think,"},{"startTime":3538.1620000000003,"endTime":3544.248,"body":"yeah, I can't overstate how much those"},{"startTime":3538.1620000000003,"endTime":3544.248,"body":"personal behavior changes matter."},{"startTime":3544.288,"endTime":3547.718,"body":"And then the last one obviously"},{"startTime":3544.288,"endTime":3547.718,"body":"is trying to have a little bit"},{"startTime":3547.718,"endTime":3552.578,"body":"less meat in your diet, which"},{"startTime":3547.718,"endTime":3552.578,"body":"also goes a very, very long way."},{"startTime":3552.618,"endTime":3557.818,"body":"Actually, I just learned yesterday"},{"startTime":3552.618,"endTime":3557.818,"body":"or the day before yesterday that"},{"startTime":3558.398,"endTime":3562.568,"body":"oysters, clams, and mussels employ"},{"startTime":3558.398,"endTime":3562.568,"body":"some of the most sustainable farming."},{"startTime":3562.568,"endTime":3566.208,"body":"So they're, they're some of the most"},{"startTime":3562.568,"endTime":3566.208,"body":"sustainable seafood that you can eat."},{"startTime":3567.777,"endTime":3568.247,"body":"Good to know."},{"startTime":3568.2670000000003,"endTime":3568.7870000000003,"body":"I like them all."},{"startTime":3568.827,"endTime":3569.247,"body":"That's great."},{"startTime":3569.647,"endTime":3570.077,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":3570.077,"endTime":3572.757,"body":"And I haven't eaten beef since about 2008."},{"startTime":3572.927,"endTime":3575.5370000000003,"body":"I want to think so, or 2009 maybe."},{"startTime":3575.587,"endTime":3575.797,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3575.797,"endTime":3576.927,"body":"But quite a while anyway."},{"startTime":3576.947,"endTime":3577.747,"body":"So that's all good."},{"startTime":3578.597,"endTime":3580.697,"body":"Lina, we're coming towards"},{"startTime":3578.597,"endTime":3580.697,"body":"the end of the podcast now."},{"startTime":3580.777,"endTime":3585.347,"body":"Is there any question I haven't asked that"},{"startTime":3580.777,"endTime":3585.347,"body":"you wish I had or any aspect of this we"},{"startTime":3585.347,"endTime":3588.0570000000002,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"startTime":3585.347,"endTime":3588.0570000000002,"body":"important for people to think about?"},{"startTime":3589.458,"endTime":3590.248,"body":"Yes, there's."},{"startTime":3590.6730000000002,"endTime":3593.103,"body":"There's probably one more"},{"startTime":3590.6730000000002,"endTime":3593.103,"body":"thing I wanted to say."},{"startTime":3593.1530000000002,"endTime":3600.28,"body":"And it's, it's a little bit around,"},{"startTime":3593.1530000000002,"endTime":3600.28,"body":"I wanted to highlight that while we"},{"startTime":3600.28,"endTime":3608.42,"body":"are kind of progressing in the energy"},{"startTime":3600.28,"endTime":3608.42,"body":"transition, climate policy across the"},{"startTime":3608.42,"endTime":3612.4700000000003,"body":"world is very much under attack, right?"},{"startTime":3612.98,"endTime":3620.942,"body":"And so what we think a lot about is not"},{"startTime":3612.98,"endTime":3620.942,"body":"just the changes that are achievable"},{"startTime":3620.972,"endTime":3627.4320000000002,"body":"and that will be better for the climate,"},{"startTime":3620.972,"endTime":3627.4320000000002,"body":"but changes that are durable over time."},{"startTime":3627.692,"endTime":3635.097,"body":"And I think the more, you know,"},{"startTime":3627.692,"endTime":3635.097,"body":"2004 was, is a year of elections."},{"startTime":3635.097,"endTime":3638.5570000000002,"body":"We've already seen many elections"},{"startTime":3635.097,"endTime":3638.5570000000002,"body":"happen and many more are"},{"startTime":3638.5570000000002,"endTime":3640.247,"body":"still slotted for this year."},{"startTime":3640.887,"endTime":3647.847,"body":"And as we see kind of pendulum swings"},{"startTime":3640.887,"endTime":3647.847,"body":"from, you know, slightly more right"},{"startTime":3647.867,"endTime":3650.197,"body":"leaning to left leaning, vice versa."},{"startTime":3650.857,"endTime":3655.613,"body":"Every time that there's a swing,"},{"startTime":3650.857,"endTime":3655.613,"body":"there's a set of risks that"},{"startTime":3655.613,"endTime":3658.373,"body":"come related to climate policy."},{"startTime":3658.9230000000002,"endTime":3664.168,"body":"And I think that it's just really,"},{"startTime":3658.9230000000002,"endTime":3664.168,"body":"really important to keep in mind."},{"startTime":3664.208,"endTime":3671.078,"body":"And I think for, for philanthropy, what"},{"startTime":3664.208,"endTime":3671.078,"body":"we're thinking a lot about is how, how"},{"startTime":3671.078,"endTime":3673.858,"body":"do we get smarter on political policy?"},{"startTime":3674.2580000000003,"endTime":3678.322,"body":"Because the case for climate"},{"startTime":3674.2580000000003,"endTime":3678.322,"body":"policy is going to be more"},{"startTime":3678.322,"endTime":3679.952,"body":"and more difficult over time."},{"startTime":3680.3920000000003,"endTime":3685.587,"body":"So in some ways, you know, the, the"},{"startTime":3680.3920000000003,"endTime":3685.587,"body":"achievements that we've attained in"},{"startTime":3685.587,"endTime":3691.3070000000002,"body":"this last 10 or so years have been"},{"startTime":3685.587,"endTime":3691.3070000000002,"body":"easy because now that the fossil fuels"},{"startTime":3691.637,"endTime":3698.527,"body":"see the threat really materializing"},{"startTime":3691.637,"endTime":3698.527,"body":"in, in a dent in their demand in their"},{"startTime":3698.527,"endTime":3705.447,"body":"full demand, they are going to shift"},{"startTime":3698.527,"endTime":3705.447,"body":"into a whole other gear of pushback"},{"startTime":3706.357,"endTime":3708.477,"body":"and disinformation and misinformation."},{"startTime":3708.477,"endTime":3713.127,"body":"And so I really wanted to highlight"},{"startTime":3708.477,"endTime":3713.127,"body":"that because you know, you reach"},{"startTime":3713.147,"endTime":3716.637,"body":"a lot of people and I think this"},{"startTime":3713.147,"endTime":3716.637,"body":"applies to everybody and not just"},{"startTime":3716.637,"endTime":3718.667,"body":"folks working in the climate field."},{"startTime":3719.42,"endTime":3730.52,"body":"I would encourage folks to maintain kind"},{"startTime":3719.42,"endTime":3730.52,"body":"of a focus and commitment towards the"},{"startTime":3730.52,"endTime":3735.62,"body":"energy transition and the, the idea of"},{"startTime":3730.52,"endTime":3735.62,"body":"what it is that we stand to gain when"},{"startTime":3735.62,"endTime":3741.64,"body":"we do this, which is a world that is not"},{"startTime":3735.62,"endTime":3741.64,"body":"dependent on fossil fuels, because it is"},{"startTime":3741.64,"endTime":3743.71,"body":"going to take a long time to get there."},{"startTime":3743.77,"endTime":3744.68,"body":"Oh, a while."},{"startTime":3744.69,"endTime":3745.58,"body":"It's going to take a while."},{"startTime":3746.01,"endTime":3751.09,"body":"And we are going to need the same"},{"startTime":3746.01,"endTime":3751.09,"body":"and increasing level of energy"},{"startTime":3751.13,"endTime":3753.07,"body":"and enthusiasm across those years."},{"startTime":3754.125,"endTime":3754.3650000000002,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":3754.755,"endTime":3755.0950000000003,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":3755.455,"endTime":3755.965,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":3756.515,"endTime":3757.655,"body":"Lina, it's been really interesting."},{"startTime":3757.655,"endTime":3761.745,"body":"If people would like to know more"},{"startTime":3757.655,"endTime":3761.745,"body":"about yourself or any of the things"},{"startTime":3761.745,"endTime":3764.465,"body":"we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"startTime":3761.745,"endTime":3764.465,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"startTime":3766.48,"endTime":3767.36,"body":"Yes, of course."},{"startTime":3767.59,"endTime":3771.9500000000003,"body":"So I would have folks come"},{"startTime":3767.59,"endTime":3771.9500000000003,"body":"visit the Climate Works page."},{"startTime":3772.44,"endTime":3778.29,"body":"So if you Google Climate Works Foundation,"},{"startTime":3772.44,"endTime":3778.29,"body":"Lina Fedirko, you can find my bio."},{"startTime":3778.35,"endTime":3783.9500000000003,"body":"And on that page, you should have a set of"},{"startTime":3778.35,"endTime":3783.9500000000003,"body":"linked blogs that I've produced over the"},{"startTime":3783.9500000000003,"endTime":3788.5950000000003,"body":"years that speak to a lot of the things"},{"startTime":3783.9500000000003,"endTime":3788.5950000000003,"body":"that Tom and I have discussed today."},{"startTime":3789.455,"endTime":3793.005,"body":"The other thing I wanted to"},{"startTime":3789.455,"endTime":3793.005,"body":"quickly highlight is that we"},{"startTime":3793.045,"endTime":3798.525,"body":"are getting ready to produce a"},{"startTime":3793.045,"endTime":3798.525,"body":"series of minerals focused blogs."},{"startTime":3798.555,"endTime":3802.935,"body":"So these will be upcoming in the"},{"startTime":3798.555,"endTime":3802.935,"body":"latter half of this year, and they"},{"startTime":3802.935,"endTime":3806.705,"body":"will be talking more in depth about"},{"startTime":3802.935,"endTime":3806.705,"body":"the mineral specific issues that"},{"startTime":3806.705,"endTime":3808.765,"body":"I've touched on with, with Tom today."},{"startTime":3809.445,"endTime":3809.805,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":3809.805,"endTime":3810.685,"body":"I look forward to seeing them."},{"startTime":3811.385,"endTime":3811.895,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":3811.925,"endTime":3813.045,"body":"Lina, it's been really interesting."},{"startTime":3813.055,"endTime":3814.875,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"startTime":3813.055,"endTime":3814.875,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"startTime":3816.035,"endTime":3818.015,"body":"Thank you so much for having me, Tom."},{"startTime":3818.055,"endTime":3820.855,"body":"And I look forward to speaking"},{"startTime":3818.055,"endTime":3820.855,"body":"to you again sometime."},{"startTime":3822.627,"endTime":3824.497,"body":"Okay, we've come to the end of the show."},{"startTime":3825.217,"endTime":3826.327,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"startTime":3827.187,"endTime":3831.327,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"startTime":3827.187,"endTime":3831.327,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"startTime":3831.337,"endTime":3835.257,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"startTime":3835.507,"endTime":3838.987,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"startTime":3839.5570000000002,"endTime":3843.297,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"startTime":3839.5570000000002,"endTime":3843.297,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"startTime":3843.3070000000002,"endTime":3847.827,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"startTime":3843.3070000000002,"endTime":3847.827,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"startTime":3848.422,"endTime":3851.382,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"startTime":3848.422,"endTime":3851.382,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"startTime":3851.582,"endTime":3854.252,"body":"It really does help new"},{"startTime":3851.582,"endTime":3854.252,"body":"people to find the show."},{"startTime":3855.212,"endTime":3855.652,"body":"Thanks."},{"startTime":3856.322,"endTime":3857.242,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}