{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":3.638,"endTime":5.968,"body":"When the election's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":3.638,"endTime":5.968,"body":"all over and people are writing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":5.968,"endTime":11.268,"body":"their post election analysis, they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":5.968,"endTime":11.268,"body":"say, well, Trump lost because he"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":11.308,"endTime":13.568,"body":"couldn't get the young vote and he"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":11.308,"endTime":13.568,"body":"couldn't get the young vote because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":13.568,"endTime":15.268,"body":"he was backwards on climate change."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":15.988,"endTime":17.728,"body":"Well, that sends a message to politicians."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":17.848,"endTime":19.918,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":17.848,"endTime":19.918,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":19.928,"endTime":21.428,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":21.748,"endTime":25.478,"body":"This is the Climate Confident"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":21.748,"endTime":25.478,"body":"podcast, the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":25.618,"endTime":29.388,"body":"showcasing best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":25.618,"endTime":29.388,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":29.818,"endTime":31.758,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.918,"endTime":35.678,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.918,"endTime":35.678,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.838,"endTime":38.198,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":39.615,"endTime":40.145,"body":"Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":40.145,"endTime":42.065,"body":"Welcome to the Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.295,"endTime":48.045,"body":"This week, we have a special episode"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.295,"endTime":48.045,"body":"where we are looking into the US's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.375,"endTime":50.865,"body":"upcoming presidential election."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.425,"endTime":54.435,"body":"And with me on the show today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.425,"endTime":54.435,"body":"I have my special guest, Jay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":55.045,"endTime":60.425,"body":"I'm going to read out a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":55.045,"endTime":60.425,"body":"Jay's bio before asking Jay to introduce"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.425,"endTime":64.115,"body":"himself, which is a bit of a departure,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.425,"endTime":64.115,"body":"but I just wanted to set a bit of context."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":64.125,"endTime":66.075,"body":"So, Jay, Dr."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":66.265,"endTime":71.76,"body":"Jay Hakes, has a new book called"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":66.265,"endTime":71.76,"body":"The Presidents And The Planet"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":72.06,"endTime":75.6,"body":"- Climate Change Science And The"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":72.06,"endTime":75.6,"body":"Politics From Eisenhower To Bush."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.64,"endTime":77.7,"body":"So right there, we can"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.64,"endTime":77.7,"body":"kind of see a scope."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":78.15,"endTime":82.26,"body":"This book was published in August"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":78.15,"endTime":82.26,"body":"this year and Jay, according to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":82.26,"endTime":86.12,"body":"his own bio here is an expert on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":82.26,"endTime":86.12,"body":"US energy and environmental policy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.41,"endTime":90.1,"body":"He served as administrator of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.41,"endTime":90.1,"body":"US energy Information Administration"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.1,"endTime":93.49,"body":"during the Clinton administration,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.1,"endTime":93.49,"body":"and as Director for Research and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":93.49,"endTime":98.0,"body":"Policy for President Obama's BP"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":93.49,"endTime":98.0,"body":"Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill Commission."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":98.34,"endTime":102.65,"body":"He also directed the Jimmy Carter"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":98.34,"endTime":102.65,"body":"Presidential Library in Atlanta for 13"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.66,"endTime":106.38,"body":"years, and he's the author of numerous"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.66,"endTime":106.38,"body":"articles and two previous books on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":106.38,"endTime":109.53,"body":"US energy and environmental history."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":110.155,"endTime":112.105,"body":"Jay, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":112.115,"endTime":115.185,"body":"Would you like to introduce"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":112.115,"endTime":115.185,"body":"yourself to everyone listening?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":116.405,"endTime":121.385,"body":"Okay, my name is Jay"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":116.405,"endTime":121.385,"body":"Hakes, and I have a long experience"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":121.395,"endTime":126.715,"body":"as a university professor, as being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":121.395,"endTime":126.715,"body":"somewhat active in politics from time"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":126.715,"endTime":133.868,"body":"to time, doing a lot of nonpartisan"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":126.715,"endTime":133.868,"body":"energy and environmental analysis, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":134.458,"endTime":135.788,"body":"it's a privilege to be on your show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":136.198,"endTime":136.858,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":137.258,"endTime":143.898,"body":"And the reason I wanted to read out your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":137.258,"endTime":143.898,"body":"bio there is because I think this upcoming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":143.938,"endTime":150.933,"body":"US presidential election is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":143.938,"endTime":150.933,"body":"important, even if only through a climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":150.933,"endTime":157.463,"body":"lens because we're coming very close"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":150.933,"endTime":157.463,"body":"to our 2030 commitments here in Europe."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":157.937,"endTime":159.177,"body":"2030 is a big year."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":159.177,"endTime":164.857,"body":"The 2020s are supposed to be the decade"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":159.177,"endTime":164.857,"body":"of action and this incoming president"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":164.887,"endTime":169.637,"body":"will be president from the start"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":164.887,"endTime":169.637,"body":"of 25 right the way through to 29."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":169.647,"endTime":173.667,"body":"So the last half of this decade"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":169.647,"endTime":173.667,"body":"essentially will be under this president."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":174.257,"endTime":181.137,"body":"So, it's hugely, hugely important, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":174.257,"endTime":181.137,"body":"the outcome will dictate a lot, obviously,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":181.137,"endTime":183.947,"body":"of what happens in the US energy space."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":184.457,"endTime":190.947,"body":"And so with Jay having the kind of bio"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":184.457,"endTime":190.947,"body":"that he has, I felt he was an ideal person"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":190.947,"endTime":193.187,"body":"to come on the podcast to discuss this."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":193.187,"endTime":197.377,"body":"Now, I normally don't touch on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":193.187,"endTime":197.377,"body":"political topics on this podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":197.387,"endTime":202.827,"body":"but I think for this one, I think it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":197.387,"endTime":202.827,"body":"is important enough that we do have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":202.827,"endTime":207.157,"body":"this kind of conversation around this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":202.827,"endTime":207.157,"body":"election because it is so important."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":207.737,"endTime":212.247,"body":"And Jay, your work, you've, you've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":207.737,"endTime":212.247,"body":"delved into the history of presidential"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":212.247,"endTime":217.777,"body":"leadership through your books on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":212.247,"endTime":217.777,"body":"climate and energy, given this extensive"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":217.867,"endTime":223.247,"body":"background, how do you think the US"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":217.867,"endTime":223.247,"body":"political system itself, designed"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":223.417,"endTime":228.347,"body":"as long ago as it was, how do you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":223.417,"endTime":228.347,"body":"think it shapes or hinders the US'"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":228.347,"endTime":230.337,"body":"ability to tackle climate change?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":232.667,"endTime":235.672,"body":"Well, a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":232.667,"endTime":235.672,"body":"around the world are used to the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":235.682,"endTime":239.562,"body":"parliamentary system of government,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":235.682,"endTime":239.562,"body":"and usually when a government comes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":239.562,"endTime":243.222,"body":"in, you get a prime minister, they have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":239.562,"endTime":243.222,"body":"a coalition or a party behind them,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":243.222,"endTime":248.825,"body":"and they can pass things by a vote"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":243.222,"endTime":248.825,"body":"of 50, 51 percent will usually do it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":248.825,"endTime":249.085,"body":"hmm."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":249.915,"endTime":250.155,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":250.175,"endTime":253.055,"body":"We have a system"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":250.175,"endTime":253.055,"body":"that's much more complicated and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":253.055,"endTime":258.155,"body":"almost designed to slow down action,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":253.055,"endTime":258.155,"body":"whether it's climate or anything else."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":259.055,"endTime":266.113,"body":"So, I mean, one interesting point in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":259.055,"endTime":266.113,"body":"my book was in 1992 the United States"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":266.123,"endTime":268.483,"body":"had done a lot to support climate."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":268.513,"endTime":271.923,"body":"We had just passed some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":268.513,"endTime":271.923,"body":"appliance efficiency standards."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":271.973,"endTime":275.073,"body":"We had joined the Intergovernmental"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":271.973,"endTime":275.073,"body":"Panel on Climate Change."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":275.703,"endTime":279.253,"body":"We had led the fight to protect"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":275.703,"endTime":279.253,"body":"the ozone layer, which helped"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":279.253,"endTime":280.563,"body":"out on climate a little bit."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":281.233,"endTime":285.677,"body":"So, the next step was to update our"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":281.233,"endTime":285.677,"body":"automobile efficiency standards,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":285.677,"endTime":287.677,"body":"which had become quite weak."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":287.707,"endTime":292.067,"body":"And as you know, right now, transportation"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":287.707,"endTime":292.067,"body":"is one of the big challenges for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":292.657,"endTime":293.987,"body":"dealing with the climate problem."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":295.127,"endTime":300.593,"body":"And it looked like they had the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":295.127,"endTime":300.593,"body":"votes in the Senate to get rid of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":300.593,"endTime":304.903,"body":"filibuster, which meant they had 60"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":300.593,"endTime":304.903,"body":"percent plus one votes, which is what we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":304.953,"endTime":307.063,"body":"require here for a lot of legislation."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":307.863,"endTime":312.04,"body":"And the White House, very"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":307.863,"endTime":312.04,"body":"aggressively fought that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":312.25,"endTime":317.64,"body":"So even though it had the support of most"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":312.25,"endTime":317.64,"body":"members of Congress, it did not pass,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":317.71,"endTime":323.09,"body":"and we didn't get back to automobile"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":317.71,"endTime":323.09,"body":"efficiency standards for another 15 years."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":323.84,"endTime":328.4,"body":"So that's just one example where"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":323.84,"endTime":328.4,"body":"whoever's in the White House, and that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":328.4,"endTime":332.54,"body":"was a case where president Bush had said"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":328.4,"endTime":332.54,"body":"before the election that he was going"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":332.54,"endTime":334.16,"body":"to do something about climate change."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":334.83,"endTime":339.98,"body":"So the stakes are very high and climate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":334.83,"endTime":339.98,"body":"requires a very sustained effort."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":339.98,"endTime":343.69,"body":"It's not kind of like a war you fight for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":339.98,"endTime":343.69,"body":"a few years and then you declare victory."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":343.7,"endTime":346.37,"body":"You have to be improving"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":343.7,"endTime":346.37,"body":"technology every year."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":346.38,"endTime":348.38,"body":"You have to be changing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":346.38,"endTime":348.38,"body":"markets every year."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":349.1,"endTime":352.97,"body":"So if you lose that in a presidential"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":349.1,"endTime":352.97,"body":"election and you get a president"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":352.98,"endTime":356.44,"body":"who's not enthusiastic about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":352.98,"endTime":356.44,"body":"dealing with a climate ,problem."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":356.93,"endTime":359.1,"body":"it's really hard to regain that ground."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":360.95,"endTime":364.69,"body":"And worse still, if you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":360.95,"endTime":364.69,"body":"have a president who decides that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":364.69,"endTime":370.63,"body":"it's all a fraud made by China and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":364.69,"endTime":370.63,"body":"pulls out of the IPCC or pulls out of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":370.64,"endTime":372.79,"body":"the Paris Climate Accord, at least."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":374.35,"endTime":378.2,"body":"Yeah, I mean, those"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":374.35,"endTime":378.2,"body":"statements are so ridiculous."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":378.2,"endTime":383.02,"body":"I mean, you know, if you go back, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":378.2,"endTime":383.02,"body":"era of modern what I call modern climate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":383.02,"endTime":386.73,"body":"science starts really in the 1950s,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":383.02,"endTime":386.73,"body":"and the center of it is in Southern"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":386.73,"endTime":391.66,"body":"California, where you have Roger Abell and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":386.73,"endTime":391.66,"body":"Dave Keeling, and Keeling starts measuring"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":391.66,"endTime":393.63,"body":"the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":394.235,"endTime":401.592,"body":"I don't think China was too involved"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":394.235,"endTime":401.592,"body":"in it at the time but I, I do believe"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":401.642,"endTime":405.722,"body":"that saying that climate change"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":401.642,"endTime":405.722,"body":"science is a hoax has gotten more"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":405.822,"endTime":408.402,"body":"difficult to say with a straight face."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":408.402,"endTime":412.322,"body":"I mean, if you watch the evening news"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":408.402,"endTime":412.322,"body":"and you see the more severe storms,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":412.842,"endTime":417.702,"body":"you see rising sea levels, you see the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":412.842,"endTime":417.702,"body":"fires caused by dehydration of soils."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":418.237,"endTime":422.347,"body":"You see, migration pressures"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":418.237,"endTime":422.347,"body":"that come to a large extent"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":422.427,"endTime":424.937,"body":"from climate related issues."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":425.307,"endTime":426.687,"body":"It's hard to say that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":426.697,"endTime":431.397,"body":"So this time what the opponents of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":426.697,"endTime":431.397,"body":"climate action are arguing, well,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":431.567,"endTime":435.327,"body":"electric cars don't work and solar"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":431.567,"endTime":435.327,"body":"really doesn't work because it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":435.327,"endTime":440.307,"body":"intermittent, which is a whole different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":435.327,"endTime":440.307,"body":"argument and probably equally silly."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":440.327,"endTime":444.527,"body":"But, you know, some people are going to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":440.327,"endTime":444.527,"body":"believe that if you say it often enough."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":444.557,"endTime":444.937,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":445.437,"endTime":450.617,"body":"It's, it's a real stake, not only for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":445.437,"endTime":450.617,"body":"politics, but for, for sort of evidence."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":450.667,"endTime":454.237,"body":"Can you say things that have no"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":450.667,"endTime":454.237,"body":"evidence behind them and still"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":454.417,"endTime":455.957,"body":"convince people that they're true?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":456.362,"endTime":459.622,"body":"Yeah, and I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":456.362,"endTime":459.622,"body":"touched on it there, but another"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":459.672,"endTime":468.352,"body":"aspect of American politics, I think,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":459.672,"endTime":468.352,"body":"is it's so fractured and divided"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":468.922,"endTime":474.392,"body":"that if one side takes a position on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":468.922,"endTime":474.392,"body":"something, the other side typically"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":474.662,"endTime":476.672,"body":"just opposes it on on principle."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":477.312,"endTime":477.682,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":479.093,"endTime":483.673,"body":"Was it Nixon who brought in the Clean"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":479.093,"endTime":483.673,"body":"Water and Air Acts in the 1970s?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":484.153,"endTime":484.693,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":485.003,"endTime":488.053,"body":"Yeah, I think, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":485.003,"endTime":488.053,"body":"when we look at the history, that's one"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":488.063,"endTime":494.187,"body":"of the lessons, because we had for quite"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":488.063,"endTime":494.187,"body":"a long period in this  country a coalition"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":494.187,"endTime":498.557,"body":"between Republicans and Democrats who"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":494.187,"endTime":498.557,"body":"wanted to support the environment."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":498.692,"endTime":504.972,"body":"And the Clean Air Act, for instance, which"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":498.692,"endTime":504.972,"body":"mentioned climate change, passed in 1970."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":505.612,"endTime":510.042,"body":"And it, it was passed on a voice vote"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":505.612,"endTime":510.042,"body":"because it had such overwhelming support"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":510.072,"endTime":512.212,"body":"and it was a very tough, tough bill."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":513.152,"endTime":518.022,"body":"And that continued into the 1980s where"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":513.152,"endTime":518.022,"body":"a lot of the leaders in the Senate on,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":518.122,"endTime":520.022,"body":"on climate change were Republicans."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":520.762,"endTime":524.982,"body":"And in Europe, you had one of the leaders"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":520.762,"endTime":524.982,"body":"on climate change was Margaret Thatcher."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":524.992,"endTime":530.942,"body":"So that Tended in, in the UK in particular"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":524.992,"endTime":530.942,"body":"to sort of take that out of play."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":530.942,"endTime":535.092,"body":"There wasn't a conservative party making"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":530.942,"endTime":535.092,"body":"an extreme argument against climate."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":535.952,"endTime":537.972,"body":"That started to change in the 1990s."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":538.702,"endTime":542.272,"body":"And we're left today where"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":538.702,"endTime":542.272,"body":"the Inflation Reduction Act."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":542.772,"endTime":546.632,"body":"Which is a massive spending bill"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":542.772,"endTime":546.632,"body":"for alternative forms of energy."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":547.382,"endTime":549.292,"body":"Passed on a straight party vote."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":549.592,"endTime":552.662,"body":"There wasn't a single member of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":549.592,"endTime":552.662,"body":"the opposition party who voted for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":552.662,"endTime":556.522,"body":"it, even though the states that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":552.662,"endTime":556.522,"body":"voted against it are getting a lot"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":556.522,"endTime":560.232,"body":"of the benefits with investments"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":556.522,"endTime":560.232,"body":"in solar and all sorts of things."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":560.912,"endTime":564.802,"body":"So, this has been a development"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":560.912,"endTime":564.802,"body":"that we're going to have to see"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":564.802,"endTime":568.682,"body":"whether that's sort of a permanent"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":564.802,"endTime":568.682,"body":"fracture in American society."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":568.732,"endTime":570.832,"body":"Is it an episode we're going through?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":571.202,"endTime":574.737,"body":"But it has immense implications"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":571.202,"endTime":574.737,"body":"for climate action."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":575.647,"endTime":582.397,"body":"And that fracturing, was that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":575.647,"endTime":582.397,"body":"just because the fossil fuel companies"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":582.437,"endTime":588.247,"body":"decided to start lobbying, put serious"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":582.437,"endTime":588.247,"body":"money into lobbying against change?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":590.227,"endTime":595.617,"body":"The heavy lobbying"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":590.227,"endTime":595.617,"body":"started around the period of 1989 and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":595.867,"endTime":600.617,"body":"1990, which was the same time, not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":595.867,"endTime":600.617,"body":"coincidentally, that the Intergovernmental"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":600.677,"endTime":602.447,"body":"Panel on Climate Change was formed."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":602.477,"endTime":607.517,"body":"So, the, the industries that felt"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":602.477,"endTime":607.517,"body":"they would be adversely affected"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":608.207,"endTime":612.957,"body":"started getting very serious and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":608.207,"endTime":612.957,"body":"their lobbyists started to oppose it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":612.987,"endTime":616.767,"body":"So one of the things that they developed,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":612.987,"endTime":616.767,"body":"and they were very clever about it,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":617.277,"endTime":619.707,"body":"was they became against regulation."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":619.927,"endTime":625.777,"body":"Well, people don't like to be regulated,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":619.927,"endTime":625.777,"body":"but, you know, we don't allow people to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":625.777,"endTime":628.217,"body":"throw garbage into their neighbor's yard."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":628.897,"endTime":630.507,"body":"We have reasonable regulations."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":630.507,"endTime":636.557,"body":"We don't allow companies to put"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":630.507,"endTime":636.557,"body":"toxic chemicals into the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":636.572,"endTime":644.732,"body":"Maybe a little bit, but but this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":636.572,"endTime":644.732,"body":"whole anti regulation doctrine"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":644.742,"endTime":646.222,"body":"became almost like a religion."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":646.562,"endTime":648.292,"body":"You know, we're against regulation."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":649.142,"endTime":653.262,"body":"And unfortunately now, it has"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":649.142,"endTime":653.262,"body":"bled over into our Supreme Court."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":653.912,"endTime":660.792,"body":"So until fairly recently, our Supreme"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":653.912,"endTime":660.792,"body":"Court was pretty open to environmental"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":660.992,"endTime":662.942,"body":"regulation and it has now flipped."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":663.647,"endTime":667.757,"body":"Where it's hard to find an environmental"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":663.647,"endTime":667.757,"body":"regulation that they find acceptable."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":667.827,"endTime":672.947,"body":"I mean, this sounds unbelievable,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":667.827,"endTime":672.947,"body":"but it's in a Supreme Court dissent"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":673.007,"endTime":676.977,"body":"that's, that was signed by people who"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":673.007,"endTime":676.977,"body":"are now pretty much running for it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":677.507,"endTime":681.077,"body":"They said that Congress or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":677.507,"endTime":681.077,"body":"the Environmental Protection"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":681.077,"endTime":686.047,"body":"Agency couldn't regulate carbon"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":681.077,"endTime":686.047,"body":"dioxide under the Clean Air Act."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":686.557,"endTime":689.287,"body":"Otherwise they would have to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":686.557,"endTime":689.287,"body":"regulate airborne frisbees."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":690.127,"endTime":697.177,"body":"Now, that's as crazy as saying climate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":690.127,"endTime":697.177,"body":"science is a Chinese hoax, but that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":697.457,"endTime":703.377,"body":"viewpoint now is more or less sort"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":697.457,"endTime":703.377,"body":"of the doctrine of our Supreme Court."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":703.377,"endTime":708.377,"body":"So we face some really tough hurdles,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":703.377,"endTime":708.377,"body":"and one of the things that the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":708.377,"endTime":712.337,"body":"next president will do, presumably,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":708.377,"endTime":712.337,"body":"is probably, you know, appoint a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":712.337,"endTime":714.047,"body":"couple of Supreme Court justices."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":714.587,"endTime":718.437,"body":"And this becomes extremely"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":714.587,"endTime":718.437,"body":"important because the judges"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":718.447,"endTime":719.467,"body":"have lifetime appointments."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":719.987,"endTime":724.677,"body":"And I think a lot of times when people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":719.987,"endTime":724.677,"body":"say, well, maybe I'm not gonna vote they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":724.677,"endTime":729.857,"body":"forget that you, you can't correct correct"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":724.677,"endTime":729.857,"body":"the damage if the president appoints an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":729.867,"endTime":732.437,"body":"anti environmental Supreme Court justice."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":732.607,"endTime":733.487,"body":"We're going to be there for a long time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":734.392,"endTime":735.462,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":735.582,"endTime":736.452,"body":"That's a really good point."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":737.262,"endTime":740.912,"body":"And I mean, you mentioned there"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":737.262,"endTime":740.912,"body":"as well the Inflation Reduction"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":740.912,"endTime":745.272,"body":"Act, which obviously is a major"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":740.912,"endTime":745.272,"body":"milestone in climate policy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":746.227,"endTime":750.547,"body":"How do you see that legislation faring"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":746.227,"endTime":750.547,"body":"in the political landscape, especially"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":750.907,"endTime":754.567,"body":"considering the potential shift in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":750.907,"endTime":754.567,"body":"leadership after the upcoming election?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":754.567,"endTime":760.247,"body":"If Trump became president, would he"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":754.567,"endTime":760.247,"body":"dismantle its progress or would it be"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":760.287,"endTime":763.107,"body":"resilient enough to survive the shift?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":765.187,"endTime":768.427,"body":"Well there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":765.187,"endTime":768.427,"body":"speculation on that today because the,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":768.427,"endTime":773.617,"body":"the, the Inflation Reduction Act, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":768.427,"endTime":773.617,"body":"problem with it is it came so late."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":801.8800000000001,"endTime":804.625,"body":"If it come 10 years ago"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":801.8800000000001,"endTime":804.625,"body":"that would've been good."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":805.205,"endTime":807.2950000000001,"body":"It also doesn't say climate in the title."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":807.325,"endTime":812.495,"body":"So people who don't follow it carefully"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":807.325,"endTime":812.495,"body":"don't see it as a climate bill, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":812.495,"endTime":815.5250000000001,"body":"the spending levels are massive,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":812.495,"endTime":815.5250000000001,"body":"and they're spread all over the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":815.695,"endTime":821.115,"body":"country, and it's seen as an economic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":815.695,"endTime":821.115,"body":"development push in a lot of states"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":821.235,"endTime":823.965,"body":"that are Trump or Republican states."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":824.705,"endTime":828.9050000000001,"body":"So I think there is a feeling"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":824.705,"endTime":828.9050000000001,"body":"that that some of that will"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":829.485,"endTime":835.2120000000001,"body":"survive politically even if the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":829.485,"endTime":835.2120000000001,"body":"Republicans were to win the election."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":836.1120000000001,"endTime":841.4920000000001,"body":"But clearly you would want someone"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":836.1120000000001,"endTime":841.4920000000001,"body":"implementing that act who believed in it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":842.392,"endTime":844.392,"body":"And believed in doing the whole package."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":844.562,"endTime":847.8820000000001,"body":"You know, sometimes people don't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":844.562,"endTime":847.8820000000001,"body":"like this idea all of the above."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":848.4720000000001,"endTime":851.5820000000001,"body":"Some people like solar, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":848.4720000000001,"endTime":851.5820000000001,"body":"they don't like carbon capture."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":851.5920000000001,"endTime":854.3720000000001,"body":"And some people like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":851.5920000000001,"endTime":854.3720000000001,"body":"hydrogen, some people don't."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":855.302,"endTime":859.282,"body":"But the politics of the matter is you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":855.302,"endTime":859.282,"body":"have to do a lot of different things to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":859.282,"endTime":861.4720000000001,"body":"build the coalition to get something done."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":862.202,"endTime":867.022,"body":"And I'm, I'm certainly of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":862.202,"endTime":867.022,"body":"mind that we might invest in a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":867.022,"endTime":868.3620000000001,"body":"few things that don't pay off."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":868.3620000000001,"endTime":870.822,"body":"It's a little bit like venture"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":868.3620000000001,"endTime":870.822,"body":"capitalism, you know, you don't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":870.822,"endTime":872.392,"body":"need every investment to pay off."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":872.392,"endTime":874.392,"body":"You need a few to pay off real big."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":874.392,"endTime":877.1020000000001,"body":"And that's kind of what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":874.392,"endTime":877.1020000000001,"body":"climate technology is like."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":877.912,"endTime":882.1270000000001,"body":"So, there's so many things that we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":877.912,"endTime":882.1270000000001,"body":"need to be working on, but right now"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":882.147,"endTime":886.1070000000001,"body":"the priority probably is batteries,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":882.147,"endTime":886.1070000000001,"body":"because batteries affect the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":886.1070000000001,"endTime":889.3670000000001,"body":"ability of wind and solar to store."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":889.8470000000001,"endTime":893.75,"body":"And it also affects improving the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":889.8470000000001,"endTime":893.75,"body":"range of the electric vehicle."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":894.0600000000001,"endTime":897.57,"body":"You know, we're going to have to get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":894.0600000000001,"endTime":897.57,"body":"longer ranges and quicker recharging"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":898.1400000000001,"endTime":901.2,"body":"to make this a car that everybody's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":898.1400000000001,"endTime":901.2,"body":"going to feel comfortable with."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":902.08,"endTime":905.1500000000001,"body":"So, you know, if we could keep that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":905.5600000000001,"endTime":910.7800000000001,"body":"level of battery, you know, almost a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":905.5600000000001,"endTime":910.7800000000001,"body":"wartime posture that we have to, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":910.7800000000001,"endTime":914.74,"body":"know, give the scientists everything they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":910.7800000000001,"endTime":914.74,"body":"asked for if they're working on batteries."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":915.1800000000001,"endTime":915.9300000000001,"body":"That's a good thing."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":916.22,"endTime":919.94,"body":"Some of it might get wasted, but you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":916.22,"endTime":919.94,"body":"know, at this point we can't quibble"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":920.09,"endTime":922.4350000000001,"body":"because we're so late coming to the fight."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":923.8000000000001,"endTime":924.36,"body":"That's fair."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":924.46,"endTime":924.75,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":925.34,"endTime":930.09,"body":"And could any of it be reversed?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":930.09,"endTime":933.72,"body":"Or, I mean, Trump has promised to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":930.09,"endTime":933.72,"body":"tear it up on day one in office, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":933.72,"endTime":936.19,"body":"he's promised to do so many things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":933.72,"endTime":936.19,"body":"on day one in office he'll have a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":936.46,"endTime":938.24,"body":"very busy first day if he is elected."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":938.62,"endTime":941.37,"body":"But, I mean, could it be reversed?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":941.47,"endTime":942.47,"body":"Theoretically, parts of it?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":943.845,"endTime":947.6450000000001,"body":"Yes what happened is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":943.845,"endTime":947.6450000000001,"body":"the way they passed the Environmental"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":947.6450000000001,"endTime":951.125,"body":"Reduction Act, there's a technicality"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":947.6450000000001,"endTime":951.125,"body":"where you, you can't be filibustered"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":952.0250000000001,"endTime":955.465,"body":"and that's treated as a budget matter."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":956.585,"endTime":960.475,"body":"So if the Republicans retain"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":956.585,"endTime":960.475,"body":"the control of the House and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":960.475,"endTime":961.7750000000001,"body":"that, that's up for grabs."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":961.7750000000001,"endTime":964.8850000000001,"body":"I mean, this isn't just a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":961.7750000000001,"endTime":964.8850000000001,"body":"presidential election, it's a House of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":965.855,"endTime":967.625,"body":"Representatives and Senate election."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":968.2750000000001,"endTime":973.745,"body":"And they get a majority in the Senate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":968.2750000000001,"endTime":973.745,"body":"and all the Republicans combined,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":973.7850000000001,"endTime":975.5150000000001,"body":"which I don't think it's a sure thing."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":976.1450000000001,"endTime":982.1750000000001,"body":"You, you could repeal the whole IRA"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":976.1450000000001,"endTime":982.1750000000001,"body":"or you could repeal parts of it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":982.725,"endTime":986.1850000000001,"body":"I don't think we can predict"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":982.725,"endTime":986.1850000000001,"body":"today what will happen."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":986.215,"endTime":990.625,"body":"I mean, there are a few Republican"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":986.215,"endTime":990.625,"body":"senators who are not up for election"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":990.625,"endTime":995.85,"body":"this time, like Lisa Murkowski from"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":990.625,"endTime":995.85,"body":"Alaska, or Susan Collins from Maine."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":996.3800000000001,"endTime":999.1500000000001,"body":"They might vote with the Democrats"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":996.3800000000001,"endTime":999.1500000000001,"body":"on a few of these issues."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":999.1600000000001,"endTime":1005.2900000000001,"body":"So we really don't know but one can"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":999.1600000000001,"endTime":1005.2900000000001,"body":"imagine a lot of worst case scenarios."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1005.34,"endTime":1010.11,"body":"I mean, right now, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1005.34,"endTime":1010.11,"body":"pretty clear that there's no feasible"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1010.1500000000001,"endTime":1012.62,"body":"way to keep climate change below 1."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1012.98,"endTime":1014.47,"body":"5 degrees centigrade."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1014.47,"endTime":1019.37,"body":"So, I couldn't even hypothetically"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1014.47,"endTime":1019.37,"body":"you know, given the infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1019.4300000000001,"endTime":1022.4100000000001,"body":"that's embedded and even"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1019.4300000000001,"endTime":1022.4100000000001,"body":"taking away the politics."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1022.4200000000001,"endTime":1026.98,"body":"So we're, we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1022.4200000000001,"endTime":1026.98,"body":"keep it below 2.0 centigrade."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1027.86,"endTime":1032.96,"body":"And I think that's feasible both"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1027.86,"endTime":1032.96,"body":"politically and technically, but if"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1032.96,"endTime":1038.06,"body":"there's a setback in the United States,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1032.96,"endTime":1038.06,"body":"because there's a psychological aspect"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1038.06,"endTime":1045.71,"body":"to this as well, you know, if a party"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1038.06,"endTime":1045.71,"body":"votes for the IRA, it's a big deal."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1045.74,"endTime":1047.34,"body":"The other party votes against it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1047.42,"endTime":1049.99,"body":"And the party that votes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1047.42,"endTime":1049.99,"body":"against it wins the election."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1051.16,"endTime":1055.5700000000002,"body":"That sends a pretty strong message"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1051.16,"endTime":1055.5700000000002,"body":"about where the American people are."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1055.77,"endTime":1059.1100000000001,"body":"It doesn't necessarily mean that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1055.77,"endTime":1059.1100000000001,"body":"they don't think climate change"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1059.1200000000001,"endTime":1062.18,"body":"is important, but at least they're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1059.1200000000001,"endTime":1062.18,"body":"not ranking it high enough in their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1062.25,"endTime":1064.54,"body":"priorities that it's affecting the vote."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1065.54,"endTime":1069.46,"body":"And I think the rest of the world"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1065.54,"endTime":1069.46,"body":"looks at what the United States does."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1070.153,"endTime":1073.663,"body":"You know, another way of looking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1070.153,"endTime":1073.663,"body":"at this, you know, from an American"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1073.713,"endTime":1081.173,"body":"posture is, do we compete with the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1073.713,"endTime":1081.173,"body":"Chinese to lead the world on climate?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1081.9930000000002,"endTime":1086.083,"body":"And China is actually meeting some of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1081.9930000000002,"endTime":1086.083,"body":"its climate goals ahead of schedule."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1086.933,"endTime":1094.373,"body":"And I actually, back in 2008,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1086.933,"endTime":1094.373,"body":"gave lectures all over China on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1094.403,"endTime":1098.393,"body":"the technologies that would make"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1094.403,"endTime":1098.393,"body":"a difference for climate change."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1099.2730000000001,"endTime":1102.443,"body":"And I thought their, their main"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1099.2730000000001,"endTime":1102.443,"body":"goal was to reduce their emissions."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1102.733,"endTime":1106.803,"body":"Well, that might have been a goal,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1102.733,"endTime":1106.803,"body":"but their goal was to manufacture"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1106.843,"endTime":1109.943,"body":"the products that people would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1106.843,"endTime":1109.943,"body":"want to buy to protect the climate."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1110.553,"endTime":1116.693,"body":"So I actually did a news conference"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1110.553,"endTime":1116.693,"body":"with the governor of Guangdong province,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1116.7430000000002,"endTime":1121.2630000000001,"body":"which is the big industrial hub of China."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1121.953,"endTime":1124.663,"body":"And most of it was discussing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1121.953,"endTime":1124.663,"body":"LED light bulbs, which were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1124.723,"endTime":1126.788,"body":"kind of a new thing at the time."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1127.1180000000002,"endTime":1130.808,"body":"And he, the guy looked over his staff"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1127.1180000000002,"endTime":1130.808,"body":"and says, now that's LED light bulbs."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1130.838,"endTime":1131.078,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1131.1680000000001,"endTime":1134.558,"body":"Yet, I just given him a lecture"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1131.1680000000001,"endTime":1134.558,"body":"on LED light bulbs to the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1134.858,"endTime":1137.348,"body":"Communist party in the province."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1137.348,"endTime":1142.808,"body":"So China is out there and, and a lot"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1137.348,"endTime":1142.808,"body":"of people who are climate skeptics"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1142.808,"endTime":1144.338,"body":"say, well, China needs to do something."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1144.788,"endTime":1148.448,"body":"Well, China is doing a lot and,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1144.788,"endTime":1148.448,"body":"and they're doing it because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1148.448,"endTime":1149.828,"body":"it's in their economic interest."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1150.278,"endTime":1154.928,"body":"So we're sort of going against"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1150.278,"endTime":1154.928,"body":"our economic interest if we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1155.7830000000001,"endTime":1157.373,"body":"are not on the cutting edge."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1157.373,"endTime":1162.103,"body":"I mean, if you look at the universities"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1157.373,"endTime":1162.103,"body":"we have here, Georgia Tech, MIT,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1162.173,"endTime":1167.613,"body":"Caltech Carnegie Mellon, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1162.173,"endTime":1167.613,"body":"there's just all these great schools"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1167.653,"endTime":1169.0430000000001,"body":"that have these brilliant scientists."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1169.183,"endTime":1173.583,"body":"So there's certainly an ability to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1169.183,"endTime":1173.583,"body":"be the world leader in technology."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1174.233,"endTime":1176.507,"body":"And we don't want to throw that away."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1176.693,"endTime":1181.923,"body":"And I, I was reading"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1176.693,"endTime":1181.923,"body":"recently that China committed to 1,200"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1182.0030000000002,"endTime":1187.443,"body":"gigawatts of renewables by 2030, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1182.0030000000002,"endTime":1187.443,"body":"they've already reached that goal."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1188.0130000000001,"endTime":1189.0130000000001,"body":"So they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1189.0140000000001,"endTime":1191.8990000000001,"body":"I mean, one of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1189.0140000000001,"endTime":1191.8990000000001,"body":"things that I cite a lot of my books"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1191.8990000000001,"endTime":1195.439,"body":"and articles is an MIT report from 2018."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1195.439,"endTime":1200.3890000000001,"body":"It said in the previous 40 years,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1195.439,"endTime":1200.3890000000001,"body":"the price of solar photovoltaic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1200.3990000000001,"endTime":1202.6190000000001,"body":"solar cells have come down 99%."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1203.3890000000001,"endTime":1205.3490000000002,"body":"Now, that's not a typographical error."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1205.459,"endTime":1207.309,"body":"It came down 99%."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1208.1090000000002,"endTime":1212.689,"body":"So, a lot of the arguments about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1208.1090000000002,"endTime":1212.689,"body":"solar was going to wreck our economy"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1212.689,"endTime":1217.329,"body":"and raise everybody's prices, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1212.689,"endTime":1217.329,"body":"know, have turned out not to be true."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1218.3590000000002,"endTime":1223.535,"body":"And technology can solve a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1218.3590000000002,"endTime":1223.535,"body":"problems, and now if we had that same"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1223.535,"endTime":1229.115,"body":"level of even partially with batteries,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1223.535,"endTime":1229.115,"body":"you know, that, that would fill a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1229.115,"endTime":1231.4550000000002,"body":"big hole in, in where we need to go."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1232.055,"endTime":1234.415,"body":"So I, I think there's a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1232.055,"endTime":1234.415,"body":"partnership with China."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1234.415,"endTime":1238.615,"body":"I, I, I think at some point after"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1234.415,"endTime":1238.615,"body":"the election, there needs to be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1238.615,"endTime":1240.555,"body":"an impartial moderator brought in."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1241.175,"endTime":1245.055,"body":"I wrote back when both countries were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1241.175,"endTime":1245.055,"body":"doing nothing a few years ago that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1245.075,"endTime":1249.365,"body":"China and the United States have a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1245.075,"endTime":1249.365,"body":"mutual death pact on climate change."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1250.345,"endTime":1254.345,"body":"Well, now both countries are, are doing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1250.345,"endTime":1254.345,"body":"more than they were there, but they're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1254.345,"endTime":1258.7050000000002,"body":"doing it in a very competitive matter"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1254.345,"endTime":1258.7050000000002,"body":"with a lot of tariffs and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1258.7050000000002,"endTime":1262.415,"body":"And some of these tariffs may be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1258.7050000000002,"endTime":1262.415,"body":"justified, but, you know, try to find"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1262.415,"endTime":1266.155,"body":"a way where you take advantage of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1262.415,"endTime":1266.155,"body":"what China does well, what we do well."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1266.165,"endTime":1269.545,"body":"So both countries   benefit from it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1269.6950000000002,"endTime":1274.265,"body":"And then the world benefits"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1269.6950000000002,"endTime":1274.265,"body":"from reducing carbon emission."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1274.9950000000001,"endTime":1281.185,"body":"yeah, we, we talked a bit"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1274.9950000000001,"endTime":1281.185,"body":"about Trump and some of his possible"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1281.762,"endTime":1286.2920000000001,"body":"policies on day one, but what about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1281.762,"endTime":1286.2920000000001,"body":"the other candidate Kamala Harris?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1287.012,"endTime":1291.7820000000002,"body":"She's rowed back some of her climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1287.012,"endTime":1291.7820000000002,"body":"commitments in the recent weeks and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1291.7820000000002,"endTime":1293.8220000000001,"body":"months since she got on the ticket no?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1296.2820000000002,"endTime":1298.232,"body":"I don't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1296.2820000000002,"endTime":1298.232,"body":"look at it that way."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1298.2920000000001,"endTime":1303.412,"body":"I mean, she comes from California, and I,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1298.2920000000001,"endTime":1303.412,"body":"I'm gonna be going out to California in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1303.5420000000001,"endTime":1305.5420000000001,"body":"a couple of weeks to give some lectures."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1305.602,"endTime":1308.972,"body":"And it's, it's fun to be out there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1305.602,"endTime":1308.972,"body":"because they're on the cutting edge."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1309.0520000000001,"endTime":1311.642,"body":"And so she's been with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1309.0520000000001,"endTime":1311.642,"body":"that issue for a long time."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1312.557,"endTime":1317.297,"body":"And she picked Tim Walz to be her vice"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1312.557,"endTime":1317.297,"body":"presidential candidate and among the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1317.307,"endTime":1322.4170000000001,"body":"American States that aren't on the coast"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1317.307,"endTime":1322.4170000000001,"body":"Minnesota probably has the best policies"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1323.047,"endTime":1324.627,"body":"you know, they're very, very aggressive."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1325.517,"endTime":1330.487,"body":"I think the complaint was she didn't go"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1325.517,"endTime":1330.487,"body":"into it more at the convention, but I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1330.487,"endTime":1336.137,"body":"don't think you can, you know, a political"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1330.487,"endTime":1336.137,"body":"convention is kind of like a circus and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1336.137,"endTime":1341.5220000000002,"body":"people aren't looking for a policy nerd"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1336.137,"endTime":1341.5220000000002,"body":"breaking down  because climate change,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1342.0520000000001,"endTime":1345.952,"body":"as you well know from your program, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1342.0520000000001,"endTime":1345.952,"body":"I know from my research, is complicated."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1346.0620000000001,"endTime":1347.512,"body":"You know, there's no silver bullet."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1348.012,"endTime":1349.472,"body":"There's a lot of silver buckshot."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1350.0220000000002,"endTime":1352.982,"body":"And it can be confusing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1350.0220000000002,"endTime":1352.982,"body":"to the average person."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1353.622,"endTime":1358.962,"body":"But I think she's made clear,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1353.622,"endTime":1358.962,"body":"and I think she feels that Trump"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1358.982,"endTime":1360.5720000000001,"body":"has sort of dug his own hole."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1360.652,"endTime":1364.992,"body":"One thing that's happened this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1360.652,"endTime":1364.992,"body":"time is environmental leaders were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1365.2920000000001,"endTime":1370.2920000000001,"body":"skeptical of Al Gore in 2000 and they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1365.2920000000001,"endTime":1370.2920000000001,"body":"were kind of nitpicking in a way,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1370.332,"endTime":1373.8690000000001,"body":"but they didn't feel he'd gone far"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1370.332,"endTime":1373.8690000000001,"body":"enough, even though he was one of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1373.8690000000001,"endTime":1376.662,"body":"kind of fathers of climate politics."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1377.722,"endTime":1381.622,"body":"And the same thing kind of happened"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1377.722,"endTime":1381.622,"body":"to Hillary Clinton in 2016."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1381.632,"endTime":1384.902,"body":"You had the Jill Stein Green"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1381.632,"endTime":1384.902,"body":"Party and people peeled away."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1385.862,"endTime":1390.547,"body":"What I see happening this time is if you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1385.862,"endTime":1390.547,"body":"look at Climate leaders who have been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1390.547,"endTime":1395.387,"body":"very aggressive in articulating the issue,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1390.547,"endTime":1395.387,"body":"like, say, Bill McKibben, you know, who's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1395.557,"endTime":1401.6970000000001,"body":"very widely respected he's out there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1395.557,"endTime":1401.6970000000001,"body":"saying, you know, I may not agree 100"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1401.727,"endTime":1406.387,"body":"percent with everything the Democrats are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1401.727,"endTime":1406.387,"body":"saying, but the differences are stark,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1406.557,"endTime":1409.297,"body":"so let's get realistic and do that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1409.307,"endTime":1413.3970000000002,"body":"So I see that happening in a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1409.307,"endTime":1413.3970000000002,"body":"somewhat different way this time"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1413.3970000000002,"endTime":1419.117,"body":"than last time, so I think that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1413.3970000000002,"endTime":1419.117,"body":"going to prove helpful to Harris."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1419.117,"endTime":1422.547,"body":"And I think the people that she brought"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1419.117,"endTime":1422.547,"body":"into the administration would be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1423.057,"endTime":1424.717,"body":"people who had experience under Obama."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1425.247,"endTime":1427.327,"body":"You know, people learn as they go on."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1427.327,"endTime":1431.557,"body":"Some of Obama's people that were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1427.327,"endTime":1431.557,"body":"really good, were really good because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1431.557,"endTime":1434.317,"body":"they'd been frustrated they hadn't done"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1431.557,"endTime":1434.317,"body":"more when Bill Clinton was president."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1434.567,"endTime":1439.137,"body":"So they kind of learned from their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1434.567,"endTime":1439.137,"body":"mistakes and they, they moved ahead."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1439.1870000000001,"endTime":1443.017,"body":"So, you know, there's not going to be,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1439.1870000000001,"endTime":1443.017,"body":"it's going to have to be pretty much"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1443.372,"endTime":1448.242,"body":"pedal to the metal for quite a while"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1443.372,"endTime":1448.242,"body":"here again, make up the lost ground."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1448.877,"endTime":1449.257,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1451.1570000000002,"endTime":1457.357,"body":"Not quite an energy related question,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1451.1570000000002,"endTime":1457.357,"body":"but do you think that Harris's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1457.6470000000002,"endTime":1465.707,"body":"following will likely be younger and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1457.6470000000002,"endTime":1465.707,"body":"therefore more climate aware than"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1465.837,"endTime":1469.867,"body":"maybe the people who might be older"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1465.837,"endTime":1469.867,"body":"and more inclined to vote for Trump?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1469.867,"endTime":1471.287,"body":"Or am I misreading that completely?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1471.527,"endTime":1475.587,"body":"Yes the polls are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1471.527,"endTime":1475.587,"body":"showing a rather dramatic change"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1475.597,"endTime":1476.8970000000002,"body":"in the views of young people."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1477.4470000000001,"endTime":1481.607,"body":"They they just weren't relating"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1477.4470000000001,"endTime":1481.607,"body":"to Biden, even though, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1482.117,"endTime":1483.567,"body":"know, life is a little unfair."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1483.597,"endTime":1489.237,"body":"I mean, you go back to 1988, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1483.597,"endTime":1489.237,"body":"who has introduced the major climate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1489.277,"endTime":1490.4170000000001,"body":"bill in the Senate that year?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1490.817,"endTime":1491.837,"body":"Senator Joe Biden."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1492.387,"endTime":1495.4170000000001,"body":"And so he's, he's been on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1492.387,"endTime":1495.4170000000001,"body":"this issue for a while."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1495.967,"endTime":1501.477,"body":"But he's older, you know, and I,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1495.967,"endTime":1501.477,"body":"I have mixed feelings about that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1501.477,"endTime":1506.3970000000002,"body":"I'm 80 years old, you know, so I you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1501.477,"endTime":1506.3970000000002,"body":"know, realize that I can't give four"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1506.3970000000002,"endTime":1509.707,"body":"or five lectures a day like I did when"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1506.3970000000002,"endTime":1509.707,"body":"I was traveling China a few years ago."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1509.707,"endTime":1511.137,"body":"I can get one or two good ones."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1511.6870000000001,"endTime":1515.837,"body":"But he just wasn't getting credit"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1511.6870000000001,"endTime":1515.837,"body":"with people and, and we can talk"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1515.837,"endTime":1520.8970000000002,"body":"more about the IRA, but the IRA"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1515.837,"endTime":1520.8970000000002,"body":"isn't publicly understood that much."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1520.9070000000002,"endTime":1523.9270000000001,"body":"It might be understood by you and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1520.9070000000002,"endTime":1523.9270000000001,"body":"me, but the general public, they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1523.9270000000001,"endTime":1525.527,"body":"don't quite know what it does."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1526.557,"endTime":1532.247,"body":"So a lot of it is optics and photographs"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1526.557,"endTime":1532.247,"body":"and, and Harris is vibrant and she has a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1532.247,"endTime":1538.922,"body":"great smile and she you know, Biden had a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1532.247,"endTime":1538.922,"body":"really tough debate sort of engaging Trump"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1539.0420000000001,"endTime":1542.342,"body":"and she seems to be just the opposite."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1542.342,"endTime":1543.662,"body":"She's very quick on her feet."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1544.482,"endTime":1548.442,"body":"So yeah, the young people are coming into"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1544.482,"endTime":1548.442,"body":"it and they have a different timeframe"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1548.512,"endTime":1553.7820000000002,"body":"because if we change emissions, we're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1548.512,"endTime":1553.7820000000002,"body":"not going to see that much different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1554.092,"endTime":1556.082,"body":"in the climate in the next five years."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1556.182,"endTime":1560.7820000000002,"body":"You know, we have to be thinking how it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1556.182,"endTime":1560.7820000000002,"body":"affects our children or our grandchildren."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1561.487,"endTime":1565.537,"body":"Or if we're young, what's the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1561.487,"endTime":1565.537,"body":"world going to be like in 50 years?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1566.027,"endTime":1572.007,"body":"So, I think there could be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1566.027,"endTime":1572.007,"body":"particularly if it's viewed when the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1572.007,"endTime":1576.727,"body":"election's all over and people are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1572.007,"endTime":1576.727,"body":"writing their post election analysis,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1577.087,"endTime":1580.537,"body":"they say, well, Trump lost because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1577.087,"endTime":1580.537,"body":"he couldn't get the young vote and he"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1580.537,"endTime":1583.387,"body":"couldn't get the young vote because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1580.537,"endTime":1583.387,"body":"he was backwards on climate change."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1584.107,"endTime":1585.847,"body":"Well, that sends a message to politicians."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1585.847,"endTime":1589.987,"body":"Politicians tend to go"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1585.847,"endTime":1589.987,"body":"with the wind a lot."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1590.3220000000001,"endTime":1597.362,"body":"And so if it's perceived that now, hence"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1590.3220000000001,"endTime":1597.362,"body":"forward, to get the younger vote and the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1597.592,"endTime":1603.662,"body":"vote in general, you need to have advanced"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1597.592,"endTime":1603.662,"body":"policies on climate, we've sort of taken a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1603.662,"endTime":1605.752,"body":"fork in the road in a positive direction."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1605.7920000000001,"endTime":1611.862,"body":"So there's a potential here for a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1605.7920000000001,"endTime":1611.862,"body":"real jump forward in our politics."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1612.592,"endTime":1613.102,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1613.372,"endTime":1613.652,"body":"Good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1613.942,"endTime":1614.182,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1614.732,"endTime":1620.5720000000001,"body":"And in, in your view, what are the most"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1614.732,"endTime":1620.5720000000001,"body":"significant points of contention between"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1620.902,"endTime":1625.402,"body":"Harris and Trump on climate issues and how"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1620.902,"endTime":1625.402,"body":"might they influence global perceptions"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1625.402,"endTime":1627.672,"body":"of the US leadership on climate action?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1627.682,"endTime":1634.1670000000001,"body":"Well, you know, with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1627.682,"endTime":1634.1670000000001,"body":"Trump, it's, it's like if people want"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1634.1670000000001,"endTime":1638.71,"body":"to drive polluting,  internal combustion"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1634.1670000000001,"endTime":1638.71,"body":"engines, they have a right to do that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1639.27,"endTime":1640.67,"body":"That's part of freedom."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1640.89,"endTime":1647.04,"body":"Well, you know, I have freedom, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1640.89,"endTime":1647.04,"body":"know, I live in a hurricane prone area."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1647.63,"endTime":1652.674,"body":"So I, don't I have some freedom to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1647.63,"endTime":1652.674,"body":"be protected from climate change?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1653.874,"endTime":1658.314,"body":"And so I, I think that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1653.874,"endTime":1658.314,"body":"is a big part of it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1659.184,"endTime":1664.184,"body":"And You know, I, I think you have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1659.184,"endTime":1664.184,"body":"to embrace new technology and you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1664.184,"endTime":1669.434,"body":"can't say that the market will just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1664.184,"endTime":1669.434,"body":"take care of it because usually for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1669.434,"endTime":1673.5040000000001,"body":"new technology, there's a transition"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1669.434,"endTime":1673.5040000000001,"body":"period like with solar panels at one"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1673.5040000000001,"endTime":1678.404,"body":"point they weren't cost competitive,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1673.5040000000001,"endTime":1678.404,"body":"but you needed to subsidize that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1678.4840000000002,"endTime":1683.094,"body":"And, and right now, I mean, to give"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1678.4840000000002,"endTime":1683.094,"body":"you an example, a personal example,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1683.104,"endTime":1687.174,"body":"I just bought, I, I couldn't get an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1683.104,"endTime":1687.174,"body":"all electric vehicle because I have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1687.174,"endTime":1688.681,"body":"to be able to escape from a hurricane."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1688.681,"endTime":1693.194,"body":"So I brought a plug in, and most"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1688.681,"endTime":1693.194,"body":"of my driving is done all electric."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1694.864,"endTime":1698.114,"body":"So when I was looking at buying it,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1694.864,"endTime":1698.114,"body":"I noticed that there, if I leased"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1698.194,"endTime":1702.374,"body":"it, I didn't want to lease it, but if"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1698.194,"endTime":1702.374,"body":"I leased it, I got a $6,000 rebate."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1703.174,"endTime":1706.634,"body":"And it made it look like it came"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1703.174,"endTime":1706.634,"body":"from the company that sold it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1709.824,"endTime":1712.154,"body":"Well, that was the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1709.824,"endTime":1712.154,"body":"Inflation Reduction Act."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1712.634,"endTime":1718.684,"body":"So, one, most buyers might not even know"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1712.634,"endTime":1718.684,"body":"that that tech credit was available."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1719.414,"endTime":1723.714,"body":"And if they did know it was available,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1719.414,"endTime":1723.714,"body":"they might think it was kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1723.714,"endTime":1725.184,"body":"a gift from the auto company."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1725.4840000000002,"endTime":1729.9940000000001,"body":"No, it was that act that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1725.4840000000002,"endTime":1729.9940000000001,"body":"was passed by the 51 votes."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1729.9940000000001,"endTime":1733.7640000000001,"body":"And let's give those people some credit,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1729.9940000000001,"endTime":1733.7640000000001,"body":"but they're not getting the credit."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1734.4840000000002,"endTime":1738.5140000000001,"body":"So there, there has to be a push"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1734.4840000000002,"endTime":1738.5140000000001,"body":"for technology change and there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1738.5240000000001,"endTime":1744.054,"body":"has to be an acceptance of either"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1738.5240000000001,"endTime":1744.054,"body":"climate tax or climate regulations."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1744.314,"endTime":1750.2440000000001,"body":"You cannot do it just with technology"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1744.314,"endTime":1750.2440000000001,"body":"and just with investments in science."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1751.044,"endTime":1755.594,"body":"You have to have a market pull and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1751.044,"endTime":1755.594,"body":"that market pull can come from taxes,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1755.624,"endTime":1761.054,"body":"which seems to be easier to do in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1755.624,"endTime":1761.054,"body":"Europe and other countries in Japan"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1761.064,"endTime":1762.954,"body":"than it is in the United States."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1762.954,"endTime":1767.154,"body":"Or from regulations and, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1762.954,"endTime":1767.154,"body":"know, auto efficiency regulations,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1767.9940000000001,"endTime":1769.544,"body":"appliance efficiency regulations."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1769.554,"endTime":1770.654,"body":"What's so hard about that?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1771.404,"endTime":1773.324,"body":"You know, we can do that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1773.7440000000001,"endTime":1778.334,"body":"While we've been regulating the efficiency"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1773.7440000000001,"endTime":1778.334,"body":"of cars, acceleration has picked up."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1778.644,"endTime":1780.344,"body":"The cars work better."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1780.7640000000001,"endTime":1783.7740000000001,"body":"You know, it's not like we're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1780.7640000000001,"endTime":1783.7740000000001,"body":"making some huge sacrifice."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1783.924,"endTime":1788.834,"body":"It's just kind of almost like a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1783.924,"endTime":1788.834,"body":"ideological knee jerk reaction"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1788.874,"endTime":1790.174,"body":"oh we're against regulation."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1790.874,"endTime":1797.374,"body":"So I, I, I think that which overlaps"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1790.874,"endTime":1797.374,"body":"with this whole Supreme Court appointment"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1797.4740000000002,"endTime":1802.5040000000001,"body":"issue, which we discussed earlier, it is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1797.4740000000002,"endTime":1802.5040000000001,"body":"really kind of a cutting edge that people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1802.5240000000001,"endTime":1805.064,"body":"have to keep in the front of their minds"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1806.299,"endTime":1806.709,"body":"Fair enough."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1806.739,"endTime":1809.749,"body":"What about the influence"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1806.739,"endTime":1809.749,"body":"of vice presidents?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1809.749,"endTime":1814.449,"body":"I mean, you, you mentioned Tim Walz,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1809.749,"endTime":1814.449,"body":"do vice presidents often play a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1814.449,"endTime":1816.169,"body":"significant role behind the scenes?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1816.339,"endTime":1819.3790000000001,"body":"How do you see the role of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1816.339,"endTime":1819.3790000000001,"body":"vice president candidate shaping"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1819.3890000000001,"endTime":1821.579,"body":"their, the party's climate agenda?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1821.6090000000002,"endTime":1825.659,"body":"Do you think the vice president"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1821.6090000000002,"endTime":1825.659,"body":"picks could sway the outcome or the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1825.659,"endTime":1827.589,"body":"effectiveness of climate policies?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1829.279,"endTime":1832.829,"body":"I think in general"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1829.279,"endTime":1832.829,"body":"people vote for the top of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1832.919,"endTime":1834.509,"body":"ticket, not the vice president."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1835.059,"endTime":1837.3990000000001,"body":"But I've seen exceptions to that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1837.499,"endTime":1841.549,"body":"I was in the room with Clinton's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1837.499,"endTime":1841.549,"body":"campaign manager when the announcement"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1841.549,"endTime":1846.529,"body":"came through in 1992 that Ross"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1841.549,"endTime":1846.529,"body":"Perot had withdrawn from the race."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1846.549,"endTime":1848.8790000000001,"body":"He was a very strong"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1846.549,"endTime":1848.8790000000001,"body":"third party candidate."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1848.8790000000001,"endTime":1850.344,"body":"He eventually came back in."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1851.0140000000001,"endTime":1853.4940000000001,"body":"But this was right about the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1851.0140000000001,"endTime":1853.4940000000001,"body":"time that they announced Al"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1853.4940000000001,"endTime":1854.544,"body":"Gore as the vice president."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1854.584,"endTime":1858.294,"body":"So you had these   guys who"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1854.584,"endTime":1858.294,"body":"were young, quite articulate."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1858.324,"endTime":1862.5140000000001,"body":"They were both from the South, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1858.324,"endTime":1862.5140000000001,"body":"it kind of sent a combined message."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1862.614,"endTime":1865.534,"body":"And Clinton's poll numbers"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1862.614,"endTime":1865.534,"body":"zoomed during that time."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1866.034,"endTime":1871.5720000000001,"body":"Also vice presidents, I can point to a few"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1866.034,"endTime":1871.5720000000001,"body":"times where they were a little ahead of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1871.5720000000001,"endTime":1874.1480000000001,"body":"the president on certain kinds of issues."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1874.698,"endTime":1877.4180000000001,"body":"And then, of course, they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1874.698,"endTime":1877.4180000000001,"body":"may take over as president."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1877.678,"endTime":1884.968,"body":"So I, I, I think you have as stark"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1877.678,"endTime":1884.968,"body":"a difference between Waltz and J."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1884.968,"endTime":1885.088,"body":"D."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1885.1280000000002,"endTime":1888.768,"body":"Vance as you do between Harris and Trump."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1888.818,"endTime":1892.6680000000001,"body":"So it kind of adds to that general mix."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1892.9080000000001,"endTime":1897.848,"body":"If, if one of them had picked a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1892.9080000000001,"endTime":1897.848,"body":"person that was more different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1897.978,"endTime":1899.3880000000001,"body":"in how they approach the issue."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1899.3880000000001,"endTime":1900.728,"body":"I think that would be worth noting."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1900.748,"endTime":1904.338,"body":"But pretty much both sides"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1900.748,"endTime":1904.338,"body":"have kind of shown their cards."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1904.9180000000001,"endTime":1909.258,"body":"And that's a little unusual because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1904.9180000000001,"endTime":1909.258,"body":"both President Bush's just before the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1909.258,"endTime":1915.548,"body":"election made statements that they were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1909.258,"endTime":1915.548,"body":"going to do a lot on climate change."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1915.798,"endTime":1919.928,"body":"So, the second President Bush"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1915.798,"endTime":1919.928,"body":"is sworn into office in 2001"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1920.6280000000002,"endTime":1924.3780000000002,"body":"and he appoints Christine Todd"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1920.6280000000002,"endTime":1924.3780000000002,"body":"Whitman as the head of the EPA."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1925.1380000000001,"endTime":1929.748,"body":"And she starts going back to, to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1925.1380000000001,"endTime":1929.748,"body":"what Bush said during the campaign"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1929.748,"endTime":1930.748,"body":"and starts to implement it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1931.6180000000002,"endTime":1935.428,"body":"Well, she ends up getting fired because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1931.6180000000002,"endTime":1935.428,"body":"Vice President Cheney came in and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1935.428,"endTime":1937.228,"body":"said, No, that's not what we're doing."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1937.968,"endTime":1939.9080000000001,"body":"And she'd say, well, he said"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1937.968,"endTime":1939.9080000000001,"body":"that during the campaign."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1939.978,"endTime":1940.6280000000002,"body":"I don't care."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1940.858,"endTime":1941.678,"body":"We're not doing that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1941.688,"endTime":1946.338,"body":"So the cards don't always get put on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1941.688,"endTime":1946.338,"body":"the table during the election season."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1946.798,"endTime":1949.688,"body":"In this election season, they're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1946.798,"endTime":1949.688,"body":"pretty much on the table and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1950.248,"endTime":1951.588,"body":"what you see is what you get."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1952.089,"endTime":1952.489,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1952.729,"endTime":1953.1490000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1953.209,"endTime":1953.499,"body":"Good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1954.8690000000001,"endTime":1960.664,"body":"Despite the challenges you've seen"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1954.8690000000001,"endTime":1960.664,"body":"a lot in your career, what can gives"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1960.664,"endTime":1964.084,"body":"you hope when it comes to global"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1960.664,"endTime":1964.084,"body":"efforts to combat climate change."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1964.084,"endTime":1968.374,"body":"Are there any emerging trends or leaders"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1964.084,"endTime":1968.374,"body":"that make you optimistic for the future?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1969.2350000000001,"endTime":1972.625,"body":"Well, I think that the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1969.2350000000001,"endTime":1972.625,"body":"leadership has to come from the United"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1972.625,"endTime":1976.472,"body":"States and China, as I mentioned earlier."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1976.472,"endTime":1983.324,"body":"And I think we have to view this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1976.472,"endTime":1983.324,"body":"as an opportunity to prove that the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1983.344,"endTime":1986.2640000000001,"body":"human race is pretty intelligent."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1987.124,"endTime":1990.324,"body":"You know, I, I have this sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1987.124,"endTime":1990.324,"body":"scenario that 50 years from now,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1990.324,"endTime":1994.884,"body":"people will be giving the human"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1990.324,"endTime":1994.884,"body":"race a grade of how they did."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1995.4740000000002,"endTime":1999.7340000000002,"body":"We're not off to a good start,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1995.4740000000002,"endTime":1999.7340000000002,"body":"I would say, but, but there's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":1999.7340000000002,"endTime":2001.144,"body":"an excitement to this challenge."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2001.174,"endTime":2005.834,"body":"I mean, we haven't discussed agriculture"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2001.174,"endTime":2005.834,"body":"today and how we make sure that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2005.924,"endTime":2008.384,"body":"cattle don't emit so much methane."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2009.044,"endTime":2012.372,"body":"And so that's a whole"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2009.044,"endTime":2012.372,"body":"problem in and of itself."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2012.372,"endTime":2017.839,"body":"And then there's, you know, the solar"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2012.372,"endTime":2017.839,"body":"and batteries can do a lot, but maybe"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2017.839,"endTime":2023.1390000000001,"body":"we need some other technologies to deal"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2017.839,"endTime":2023.1390000000001,"body":"with heavy industries like cement and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2023.219,"endTime":2027.509,"body":"you know, how some people say, well,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2023.219,"endTime":2027.509,"body":"we can fly airplanes with batteries."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2027.539,"endTime":2029.289,"body":"Other people say we need biofuels."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2029.8490000000002,"endTime":2031.419,"body":"We'll get a lot of people working on it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2031.429,"endTime":2036.679,"body":"So to move, to try to change this from"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2031.429,"endTime":2036.679,"body":"being a burden that we're shouldering"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2036.679,"endTime":2041.299,"body":"is to say, well, we're using our brains,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2036.679,"endTime":2041.299,"body":"you know, we think we're pretty smart"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2041.3490000000002,"endTime":2043.249,"body":"and we can probably solve these problems."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2043.679,"endTime":2045.509,"body":"We're going to need a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2045.549,"endTime":2048.629,"body":"No one's going to solve all"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2045.549,"endTime":2048.629,"body":"the problems themselves."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2048.639,"endTime":2051.849,"body":"So you're going to have to have a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2048.639,"endTime":2051.849,"body":"team of people, people that understand"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2052.139,"endTime":2056.449,"body":"agriculture, people who understand the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2052.139,"endTime":2056.449,"body":"technology of batteries and all this."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2057.029,"endTime":2059.899,"body":"And, and can make wise, wise decisions."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2060.139,"endTime":2061.569,"body":"Some of these decisions are hard."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2061.609,"endTime":2064.839,"body":"I mean, you know, solar"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2061.609,"endTime":2064.839,"body":"panels take up land."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2065.369,"endTime":2070.814,"body":"So, you know, I have to cut down some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2065.369,"endTime":2070.814,"body":"trees and, you know, have to balance that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2071.054,"endTime":2074.774,"body":"It's not always clear what we should"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2071.054,"endTime":2074.774,"body":"do, but I, I think it would be an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2074.774,"endTime":2078.824,"body":"exciting time and I, I want to be able"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2074.774,"endTime":2078.824,"body":"to look my grandchildren in the eye"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2078.834,"endTime":2081.494,"body":"and and say I, I did the best I could."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2081.814,"endTime":2087.424,"body":"And, and maybe that was quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2081.814,"endTime":2087.424,"body":"or maybe it fell short, but we are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2087.424,"endTime":2089.974,"body":"going to be in the history books."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2090.964,"endTime":2093.024,"body":"It'd be nice to look better than worse."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2095.369,"endTime":2095.849,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2095.959,"endTime":2096.349,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2097.564,"endTime":2101.434,"body":"Bit of a left field question, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2097.564,"endTime":2101.434,"body":"if you could go back in time and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2101.434,"endTime":2107.864,"body":"change one pivotal decision by a US"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2101.434,"endTime":2107.864,"body":"president that negatively impacted"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2107.8740000000003,"endTime":2109.984,"body":"the environment, which would it be?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2110.61,"endTime":2114.64,"body":"Well, I highlight"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2110.61,"endTime":2114.64,"body":"in my book the automobile decision."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2115.2400000000002,"endTime":2119.86,"body":"We've had multiple opportunities to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2115.2400000000002,"endTime":2119.86,"body":"upgrade the automobile standards."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2120.5,"endTime":2124.65,"body":"And I, I think we missed"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2120.5,"endTime":2124.65,"body":"those opportunities and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2124.65,"endTime":2125.98,"body":"we're paying for it today."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2126.25,"endTime":2131.34,"body":"And, you know, if the cars keep"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2126.25,"endTime":2131.34,"body":"getting bigger and higher and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2131.88,"endTime":2136.44,"body":"less aerodynamic, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2131.88,"endTime":2136.44,"body":"can still meet the low standards."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2136.455,"endTime":2142.855,"body":"But I, I think President Bush, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2136.455,"endTime":2142.855,"body":"second President Bush who took office"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2142.895,"endTime":2145.875,"body":"in 1989, that was the turning point."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2146.395,"endTime":2149.965,"body":"And what I've been able to do is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2146.395,"endTime":2149.965,"body":"find in my research, which I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2150.395,"endTime":2155.185,"body":"nobody else has found, that his top"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2150.395,"endTime":2155.185,"body":"staff members were meeting with the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2155.185,"endTime":2158.0750000000003,"body":"climate denial scientists privately."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2158.215,"endTime":2162.0950000000003,"body":"And they were afraid the news media were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2158.215,"endTime":2162.0950000000003,"body":"going to find out,  but  they never did,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2162.3250000000003,"endTime":2168.445,"body":"but I was able to get the White House"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2162.3250000000003,"endTime":2168.445,"body":"records and document what they meant."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2168.445,"endTime":2172.57,"body":"So that was kind of a turning point where"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2168.445,"endTime":2172.57,"body":"a president kind of allied themselves"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2172.64,"endTime":2178.54,"body":"with the industrial groups that wanted to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2172.64,"endTime":2178.54,"body":"slow down the climate train they allied"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2178.54,"endTime":2182.51,"body":"themselves with a lot of scientists"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2178.54,"endTime":2182.51,"body":"who were not the most respected on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2182.52,"endTime":2187.58,"body":"issue, but they were the ones that were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2182.52,"endTime":2187.58,"body":"saying what the industry wanted to hear."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2188.08,"endTime":2191.7200000000003,"body":"Another sponsor of these sciences was the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2188.08,"endTime":2191.7200000000003,"body":"Unification Church, whatever it means."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2191.7200000000003,"endTime":2193.96,"body":"They sometimes worked out of his office."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2194.46,"endTime":2199.9700000000003,"body":"So I, I, I think at the same point we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2194.46,"endTime":2199.9700000000003,"body":"were gaining momentum from having the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2199.9700000000003,"endTime":2204.78,"body":"Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2199.9700000000003,"endTime":2204.78,"body":"and the meeting in Rio in 1992, there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2204.78,"endTime":2206.54,"body":"seemed to be this big step forward."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2207.3,"endTime":2213.02,"body":"Going on as sort of a parallel"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2207.3,"endTime":2213.02,"body":"opposition to that was this emergence"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2213.04,"endTime":2217.17,"body":"of the industrial groups and the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2213.04,"endTime":2217.17,"body":"alliances that they had with with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2217.2400000000002,"endTime":2219.63,"body":"President George Herbert Walker Bush."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2220.805,"endTime":2225.648,"body":"Ok, Cool We are coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2220.805,"endTime":2225.648,"body":"towards the end of the podcast now, Jay,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2225.698,"endTime":2232.168,"body":"is there any question I didn't ask that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2225.698,"endTime":2232.168,"body":"you wish I had or any aspect of this we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2232.168,"endTime":2234.898,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2232.168,"endTime":2234.898,"body":"important for people to think about?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2237.8830000000003,"endTime":2241.953,"body":"I think that you've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2237.8830000000003,"endTime":2241.953,"body":"done a great job, so I, I don't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2241.953,"endTime":2243.863,"body":"have any great questions left."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2243.863,"endTime":2249.393,"body":"I mean, I just think that, I hope that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2243.863,"endTime":2249.393,"body":"young people today will go into the nitty"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2249.393,"endTime":2254.313,"body":"gritty of climate change that it won't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2249.393,"endTime":2254.313,"body":"be just an emotional reaction, but an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2254.313,"endTime":2258.223,"body":"attempt to really understand the science"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2254.313,"endTime":2258.223,"body":"so that we're doing the right things."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2258.753,"endTime":2261.1330000000003,"body":"We're going to waste a little"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2258.753,"endTime":2261.1330000000003,"body":"money along the way, but."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2262.183,"endTime":2264.663,"body":"what money we have needs"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2262.183,"endTime":2264.663,"body":"to be spent officially."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2264.6730000000002,"endTime":2271.713,"body":"So keep an open mind, listen to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2264.6730000000002,"endTime":2271.713,"body":"everybody, and then make a decision"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2271.713,"endTime":2273.863,"body":"that's based on the science."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2273.863,"endTime":2277.023,"body":"I think that's what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2273.863,"endTime":2277.023,"body":"will save us in the end."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2278.308,"endTime":2279.638,"body":"And be sure"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2278.308,"endTime":2279.638,"body":"and get out there and vote."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2281.263,"endTime":2282.803,"body":"Yes, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2284.9030000000002,"endTime":2287.708,"body":"Great, Jay that's been"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2284.9030000000002,"endTime":2287.708,"body":"fascinating, if people would like to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2287.708,"endTime":2291.738,"body":"know more about yourself or any of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2287.708,"endTime":2291.738,"body":"the topics we discussed on the podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2291.738,"endTime":2295.218,"body":"today, or any of your books, for example,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2291.738,"endTime":2295.218,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2297.0080000000003,"endTime":2301.983,"body":"Jay Hakes dot com, it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2297.0080000000003,"endTime":2301.983,"body":"all one word, J A Y H A K E S, and it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2301.983,"endTime":2303.663,"body":"has my schedule of my own, so I'm good."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2304.038,"endTime":2306.418,"body":"Some travel, and it describes the book."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2306.968,"endTime":2308.838,"body":"So that's a pretty good place to start."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2309.268,"endTime":2309.658,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2310.0080000000003,"endTime":2311.138,"body":"Jay, that's been fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2311.308,"endTime":2312.998,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2311.308,"endTime":2312.998,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2314.0280000000002,"endTime":2315.268,"body":"Thanks Tom,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jay Hakes","startTime":2314.0280000000002,"endTime":2315.268,"body":"I really appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2316.793,"endTime":2318.663,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2316.793,"endTime":2318.663,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2319.3830000000003,"endTime":2320.493,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2321.353,"endTime":2325.503,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2321.353,"endTime":2325.503,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2325.513,"endTime":2329.4230000000002,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2329.6730000000002,"endTime":2333.1530000000002,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2333.723,"endTime":2337.463,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2333.723,"endTime":2337.463,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2337.483,"endTime":2341.963,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2337.483,"endTime":2341.963,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2342.593,"endTime":2345.553,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2342.593,"endTime":2345.553,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2345.753,"endTime":2348.283,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2345.753,"endTime":2348.283,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2349.373,"endTime":2349.823,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2350.493,"endTime":2351.413,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}