{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":3.8,"endTime":6.66,"body":"Growing trees works."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":7.77,"endTime":10.8,"body":"We know how to do it and we"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":7.77,"endTime":10.8,"body":"don't even have to do it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":10.82,"endTime":13.89,"body":"We just have to let the tree grow."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":14.169,"endTime":21.899,"body":"The tree sucks in carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":14.169,"endTime":21.899,"body":"from the atmosphere, from the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":21.929,"endTime":23.509,"body":"air, and it becomes the tree."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":24.71,"endTime":27.339,"body":"So, it's a fabulous solution."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":27.959,"endTime":30.029,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":27.959,"endTime":30.029,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.039,"endTime":31.539,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.859,"endTime":35.589,"body":"This is the Climate Confident"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.859,"endTime":35.589,"body":"podcast, the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.729,"endTime":39.499,"body":"showcasing best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.729,"endTime":39.499,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":39.929,"endTime":41.869,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.029,"endTime":45.789,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.029,"endTime":45.789,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.949,"endTime":48.309,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":49.425,"endTime":49.965,"body":"Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":49.965,"endTime":51.775,"body":"Welcome to the Climate Confident Podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.955,"endTime":53.595,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.625,"endTime":58.395,"body":"And with me on the show today, I have my"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.625,"endTime":58.395,"body":"special guest, Professor Valerie Thomas."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":58.725,"endTime":60.345,"body":"Valerie, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.385,"endTime":62.225,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":63.345,"endTime":63.985,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":64.005,"endTime":64.265,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":64.875,"endTime":66.455,"body":"As you said, I'm Valerie Thomas."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":66.495,"endTime":71.825,"body":"I'm a professor at the Georgia Institute"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":66.495,"endTime":71.825,"body":"of Technology in Atlanta, Georgia,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":72.145,"endTime":76.885,"body":"and I'm in industrial and systems"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":72.145,"endTime":76.885,"body":"engineering and in public policy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":77.885,"endTime":78.395,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":79.305,"endTime":82.185,"body":"Georgia Tech has got a great name"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":79.305,"endTime":82.185,"body":"in the, in a tech space, doesn't it?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":84.305,"endTime":88.245,"body":"We agree"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":84.305,"endTime":88.245,"body":"that it has a great name."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":88.345,"endTime":92.795,"body":"We've been ranked, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":88.345,"endTime":92.795,"body":"number one public university in energy."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":92.845,"endTime":96.105,"body":"My school Industrial and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":92.845,"endTime":96.105,"body":"Systems Engineering is the top."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":96.415,"endTime":97.545,"body":"So, yeah, we agree."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":97.555,"endTime":98.005,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":99.025,"endTime":99.355,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":99.355,"endTime":99.825,"body":"No problem."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":100.195,"endTime":102.225,"body":"And how did you get there?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.225,"endTime":105.558,"body":"What's your road to being there now?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":106.653,"endTime":111.233,"body":"Alright, my"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":106.653,"endTime":111.233,"body":"road has been long and winding."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":111.963,"endTime":113.403,"body":"I have a Ph."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":113.473,"endTime":113.983,"body":"D."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":114.013,"endTime":115.793,"body":"in theoretical physics."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":116.173,"endTime":123.764,"body":"I studied grand unified theories, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":116.173,"endTime":123.764,"body":"monopole catalysis of proton decay."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":124.224,"endTime":125.084,"body":"It was great."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":125.314,"endTime":129.267,"body":"And, then I decided to work"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":125.314,"endTime":129.267,"body":"on nuclear arms control."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":129.457,"endTime":131.807,"body":"I did that for quite a few years."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":131.847,"endTime":134.207,"body":"That was super great also."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":134.717,"endTime":140.384,"body":"This was during the Gorbachev era, so,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":134.717,"endTime":140.384,"body":"I got to go to the Soviet Union and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":140.41,"endTime":143.37,"body":"detect radiation from nuclear warheads."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":144.15,"endTime":145.17,"body":"That was really terrific."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":145.19,"endTime":146.69,"body":"Why would you do anything else?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":146.97,"endTime":151.58,"body":"But I decided I wanted to work"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":146.97,"endTime":151.58,"body":"on energy and environment and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":151.67,"endTime":153.61,"body":"Georgia Tech made a place for me."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":153.62,"endTime":156.69,"body":"And so that's what I've been"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":153.62,"endTime":156.69,"body":"doing for quite a while here."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":157.38,"endTime":157.91,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":157.99,"endTime":158.32,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":158.89,"endTime":165.57,"body":"And what kind of areas of study"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":158.89,"endTime":165.57,"body":"are you looking at at the moment?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":167.324,"endTime":172.069,"body":"Okay, I do a big"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":167.324,"endTime":172.069,"body":"range because I look at energy systems,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":172.669,"endTime":178.139,"body":"and then I also work with teams that"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":172.669,"endTime":178.139,"body":"are developing new technologies, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":178.139,"endTime":184.064,"body":"usually my job of that is figure out,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":178.139,"endTime":184.064,"body":"okay, What are the greenhouse gas"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":184.064,"endTime":188.414,"body":"emissions and maybe other environmental"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":184.064,"endTime":188.414,"body":"impacts and how much is it going to cost?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":189.134,"endTime":194.604,"body":"so One of the things I've been"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":189.134,"endTime":194.604,"body":"really happy to work on is"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":194.774,"endTime":198.594,"body":"capturing carbon dioxide from"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":194.774,"endTime":198.594,"body":"the air and making fuel from it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":199.324,"endTime":199.654,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":200.494,"endTime":204.894,"body":"I work on other"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":200.494,"endTime":204.894,"body":"things I work on food waste, like, you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":204.894,"endTime":210.624,"body":"know, getting food that farmers haven't"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":204.894,"endTime":210.624,"body":"been able to sell and getting it to market"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":210.644,"endTime":212.694,"body":"and, you know, how much does that help?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":212.704,"endTime":213.504,"body":"How much does it help?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":213.884,"endTime":218.804,"body":"Working on helping the paper"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":213.884,"endTime":218.804,"body":"industry to be more energy efficient."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":218.804,"endTime":222.804,"body":"It's one of the most energy"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":218.804,"endTime":222.804,"body":"consuming industries that we have."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":223.354,"endTime":224.044,"body":"Hydrogen."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":225.439,"endTime":231.849,"body":"How can we get hydrogen to power vehicles,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":225.439,"endTime":231.849,"body":"you know, trucks where do we get it?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":231.859,"endTime":232.639,"body":"How do we make it?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":232.699,"endTime":233.879,"body":"How do we make it cheap?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":233.909,"endTime":237.169,"body":"How do we make it you know,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":233.909,"endTime":237.169,"body":"environmentally benign"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":237.169,"endTime":238.139,"body":"or at least reasonable?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":238.539,"endTime":239.689,"body":"So that's a few."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":240.404,"endTime":240.794,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":241.484,"endTime":246.354,"body":"Let's dig into the carbon capture"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":241.484,"endTime":246.354,"body":"one because that's what we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":246.354,"endTime":247.814,"body":"talked about on the the intro"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":248.589,"endTime":248.859,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":249.044,"endTime":250.054,"body":"that we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":249.044,"endTime":250.054,"body":"were going to talk about."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":250.444,"endTime":251.444,"body":"Tell me a little bit about it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":251.444,"endTime":255.944,"body":"I mean, it sounds like a bit like sci"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":251.444,"endTime":255.944,"body":"fi and you, you, we've seen, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":255.964,"endTime":260.674,"body":"pictures of some of the facilities"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":255.964,"endTime":260.674,"body":"in Iceland, for example where they"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":260.674,"endTime":263.134,"body":"are capturing carbon from the air."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":263.524,"endTime":267.514,"body":"Can you break it down for us exactly"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":263.524,"endTime":267.514,"body":"what, what does it take to pull"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":267.544,"endTime":268.964,"body":"carbon dioxide out of the air?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":268.964,"endTime":270.734,"body":"And, and why is it so challenging?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":271.749,"endTime":272.089,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":272.439,"endTime":276.309,"body":"So, on the one hand,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":272.439,"endTime":276.309,"body":"it is not challenging."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":276.799,"endTime":283.859,"body":"So, you get you know, some kind of sticky"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":276.799,"endTime":283.859,"body":"material, and you stick it out in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":283.919,"endTime":287.539,"body":"air, and carbon dioxide sticks to it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":288.369,"endTime":290.539,"body":"You've captured carbon"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":288.369,"endTime":290.539,"body":"dioxide from the air."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":291.309,"endTime":291.949,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":292.109,"endTime":296.179,"body":"Now, you want to keep doing"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":292.109,"endTime":296.179,"body":"this to get more carbon dioxide."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":296.179,"endTime":299.709,"body":"So, somehow, you've got to"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":296.179,"endTime":299.709,"body":"scrape that carbon dioxide off."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":301.099,"endTime":302.639,"body":"That's harder."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":302.689,"endTime":306.049,"body":"But you know, we do this in the lab"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":302.689,"endTime":306.049,"body":"and, you know, demonstration plants."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":306.059,"endTime":308.922,"body":"So, we put it in a vacuum."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":308.922,"endTime":312.422,"body":"What you've really got to do is now"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":308.922,"endTime":312.422,"body":"you've just got to heat it up so that"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":312.432,"endTime":317.742,"body":"the carbon dioxide comes off and then"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":312.432,"endTime":317.742,"body":"you suck it out and then it's all"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":317.742,"endTime":319.432,"body":"fresh and ready to get some more."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":320.152,"endTime":321.812,"body":"So, it's not hard."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":322.742,"endTime":323.802,"body":"You do have to heat it up."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":324.322,"endTime":325.762,"body":"That does take energy."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":326.292,"endTime":326.882,"body":"We can do it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":327.152,"endTime":327.812,"body":"however,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":329.852,"endTime":336.442,"body":"it's hard to get anywhere near as"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":329.852,"endTime":336.442,"body":"much as we're shooting out into"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":336.452,"endTime":340.972,"body":"the atmosphere, so it's gotta be"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":336.452,"endTime":340.972,"body":"big, and that makes it expensive."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":341.712,"endTime":342.892,"body":"So, that's why it's tough."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":343.427,"endTime":346.047,"body":"Yeah, because I was"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":343.427,"endTime":346.047,"body":"going to say, I think if I remember"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":346.047,"endTime":351.167,"body":"the numbers correctly, the Climeworks"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":346.047,"endTime":351.167,"body":"facility in Iceland is scaling up"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":351.177,"endTime":355.647,"body":"from 4,000 tons CO2 a year to 10,000."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":356.347,"endTime":363.767,"body":"And 10,000 tons a year is nothing,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":356.347,"endTime":363.767,"body":"nothing, absolutely nothing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":364.087,"endTime":368.087,"body":"We would want to be getting out"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":364.087,"endTime":368.087,"body":"of the atmosphere, something"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":368.117,"endTime":371.357,"body":"like 10 billion tons a year"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":371.817,"endTime":375.117,"body":"really to make a significant difference,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":371.817,"endTime":375.117,"body":"even a billion tons a year would be good"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":375.207,"endTime":376.032,"body":"Would be nice, yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":376.287,"endTime":379.607,"body":"But 10,000 is nothing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":379.607,"endTime":383.847,"body":"So we're orders of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":379.607,"endTime":383.847,"body":"magnitude off right now."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":385.812,"endTime":386.082,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":386.872,"endTime":391.852,"body":"So, absolutely, we're orders"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":386.872,"endTime":391.852,"body":"of magnitude off Why is that?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":391.852,"endTime":392.522,"body":"Well, okay,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":392.552,"endTime":395.492,"body":"we haven't built a whole bunch"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":392.552,"endTime":395.492,"body":"of facilities to do this, but"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":395.552,"endTime":399.122,"body":"there are really good reasons"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":395.552,"endTime":399.122,"body":"not to do this right now."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":399.392,"endTime":402.762,"body":"One, as I was saying"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":399.392,"endTime":402.762,"body":"before, it's expensive."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":403.247,"endTime":408.227,"body":"It's more expensive than a whole bunch"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":403.247,"endTime":408.227,"body":"of other even sort of unpleasant things"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":408.537,"endTime":412.897,"body":"that you could do to reduce the amount"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":408.537,"endTime":412.897,"body":"of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":413.347,"endTime":417.827,"body":"And then second, you get it, what are"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":413.347,"endTime":417.827,"body":"you going to do with the carbon dioxide?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":417.847,"endTime":419.532,"body":"You should do something."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":420.072,"endTime":423.882,"body":"So these projects, like the one"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":420.072,"endTime":423.882,"body":"in Iceland, they're demonstrating"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":423.899,"endTime":430.419,"body":"and testing and trying to scale up"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":423.899,"endTime":430.419,"body":"looking for ways to make it cheaper."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":431.994,"endTime":437.164,"body":"One of the reasons that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":431.994,"endTime":437.164,"body":"it's important to try and capture carbon"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":437.164,"endTime":441.374,"body":"and take it out of the atmosphere is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":437.164,"endTime":441.374,"body":"because there's so much of it there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":441.374,"endTime":447.514,"body":"And if we could flip a switch tomorrow"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":441.374,"endTime":447.514,"body":"and stop burning fossil fuels and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":447.514,"endTime":453.054,"body":"emitting CO2 into the atmosphere, there"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":447.514,"endTime":453.054,"body":"would still be literally hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":453.064,"endTime":459.244,"body":"billions of tons of excess CO2 in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":453.064,"endTime":459.244,"body":"atmosphere from the decades and decades"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":459.244,"endTime":462.824,"body":"and decades of us having put it up there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":463.814,"endTime":471.604,"body":"So getting it out, you know, seems"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":463.814,"endTime":471.604,"body":"like a good idea, but the, the scale"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":471.604,"endTime":473.874,"body":"of the problem, how do we tackle that?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":473.874,"endTime":476.144,"body":"I mean, you've mentioned it's expensive."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":477.054,"endTime":478.254,"body":"It's not just expensive."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":478.254,"endTime":481.184,"body":"It's also, it requires a lot of energy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":481.684,"endTime":488.28,"body":"So can it actually be done really at,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":481.684,"endTime":488.28,"body":"at scale, at the scale we need to do it?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":488.985,"endTime":492.385,"body":"Alright,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":488.985,"endTime":492.385,"body":"depends what you mean by can."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":492.955,"endTime":498.425,"body":"Can we afford to do it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":492.955,"endTime":498.425,"body":"both financially and energy wise?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":498.885,"endTime":500.805,"body":"So, it"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":498.885,"endTime":500.805,"body":"makes no sense to say Ah!"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":500.965,"endTime":505.3,"body":"This is the solution to fossil"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":500.965,"endTime":505.3,"body":"fuel use . Let's just do this."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":505.34,"endTime":505.8,"body":"We can do it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":505.8,"endTime":507.91,"body":"We can just capture it and put it away."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":508.05,"endTime":509.57,"body":"You know, dig a hole."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":509.98,"endTime":515.14,"body":"So, it's one of the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":509.98,"endTime":515.14,"body":"most expensive options."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":515.76,"endTime":519.74,"body":"People have done these integrated"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":515.76,"endTime":519.74,"body":"assessment models where they look at all"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":519.74,"endTime":526.335,"body":"the emissions we expect to be having, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":519.74,"endTime":526.335,"body":"then all the ways you can reduce emissions"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":526.345,"endTime":528.915,"body":"from fossil fuels and other things."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":528.915,"endTime":533.045,"body":"You know, you can have electric vehicles,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":528.915,"endTime":533.045,"body":"you can be more efficient in industry,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":533.375,"endTime":535.691,"body":"you can manage your food system better."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":535.691,"endTime":542.851,"body":"There are a lot of things, and working"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":535.691,"endTime":542.851,"body":"all the way down to try to not get"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":542.881,"endTime":544.711,"body":"the climate to change too much."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":545.991,"endTime":546.971,"body":"You got some extra."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":547.456,"endTime":549.936,"body":"And so that's where people"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":547.456,"endTime":549.936,"body":"look at things like capturing"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":549.936,"endTime":551.916,"body":"carbon dioxide from the air."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":552.586,"endTime":558.886,"body":"Even if we are in that situation of, you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":552.586,"endTime":558.886,"body":"know, we're just doing amazing stuff with"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":559.512,"endTime":564.792,"body":"we sail our ships across the ocean rather"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":559.512,"endTime":564.792,"body":"than using diesel fuel like we do now."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":564.832,"endTime":569.322,"body":"Still, will we build that much?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":569.927,"endTime":570.597,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":571.147,"endTime":571.517,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":571.607,"endTime":572.697,"body":"You asked what could we do."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":574.447,"endTime":577.807,"body":"There are other ways."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":578.177,"endTime":581.787,"body":"There are lots of other ways that"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":578.177,"endTime":581.787,"body":"carbon dioxide comes out of the air."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":582.757,"endTime":588.017,"body":"It does come out naturally,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":582.757,"endTime":588.017,"body":"even if we do nothing."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":589.177,"endTime":595.927,"body":"Over, you know, a good thousand years"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":589.177,"endTime":595.927,"body":"or so, it's going to be absorbed."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":596.472,"endTime":601.822,"body":"in the ocean and the ocean, you know, got"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":596.472,"endTime":601.822,"body":"real acidic and so on because you have"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":601.822,"endTime":605.392,"body":"carbonic acid, but it gets absorbed in"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":601.822,"endTime":605.392,"body":"the ocean and it's in the top layer of"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":605.402,"endTime":611.542,"body":"the ocean and over a really, really long"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":605.402,"endTime":611.542,"body":"time it gets mixed into the deeper ocean."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":611.892,"endTime":616.462,"body":"So the problem will"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":611.892,"endTime":616.462,"body":"handle itself eventually."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":616.827,"endTime":621.337,"body":"The issue is, we're talking thousands"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":616.827,"endTime":621.337,"body":"of years in the future, there may be"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":621.387,"endTime":626.037,"body":"other things that we do not want to"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":621.387,"endTime":626.037,"body":"have happen that will happen if we"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":626.037,"endTime":631.677,"body":"keep that carbon dioxide up in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":626.037,"endTime":631.677,"body":"air, you know, even for 100 years."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":632.507,"endTime":638.633,"body":"So, as a, as a researcher, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":632.507,"endTime":638.633,"body":"working on this because I'm advocating."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":638.713,"endTime":639.683,"body":"Let's go do it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":639.733,"endTime":642.363,"body":"Let's go spend as much"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":639.733,"endTime":642.363,"body":"as we can and do it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":642.663,"endTime":646.903,"body":"It's more, okay, here"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":642.663,"endTime":646.903,"body":"this is, we can do it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":648.673,"endTime":653.903,"body":"What, you know, can we be really"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":648.673,"endTime":653.903,"body":"smart or something and find a way that"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":653.953,"endTime":656.363,"body":"it's suddenly cheaper, much cheaper."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":656.393,"endTime":661.093,"body":"Or there are little side cases we can"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":656.393,"endTime":661.093,"body":"do, or niche applications, or saves"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":661.093,"endTime":664.053,"body":"a lot of energy, or there's something"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":661.093,"endTime":664.053,"body":"about it that people will love and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":664.053,"endTime":665.693,"body":"want to buy it, even if it's expensive."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":665.703,"endTime":667.433,"body":"We're just, just working it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":668.203,"endTime":669.223,"body":"So that's what we're doing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":669.868,"endTime":670.228,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":671.018,"endTime":679.288,"body":"And is it better to try and capture"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":671.018,"endTime":679.288,"body":"it from the air where it already is,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":679.568,"endTime":687.538,"body":"but in very minuscule amounts, 420"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":679.568,"endTime":687.538,"body":"something ppm, or from the flues, for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":687.538,"endTime":696.148,"body":"example, of coal fired power plants or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":687.538,"endTime":696.148,"body":"concrete kilns or metal works or the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":696.148,"endTime":697.848,"body":"paper mills you talked about earlier."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":698.538,"endTime":700.968,"body":"I mean, it's in much higher"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":698.538,"endTime":700.968,"body":"concentration there, so it should"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":700.978,"endTime":702.348,"body":"be easier to capture there, right?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":703.023,"endTime":706.393,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":703.023,"endTime":706.393,"body":"They're different cases and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":706.393,"endTime":707.193,"body":"they're kind of interesting."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":707.213,"endTime":713.623,"body":"So yeah, it's, if you can go at a"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":707.213,"endTime":713.623,"body":"coal plant, there's a lot of carbon"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":713.623,"endTime":717.673,"body":"dioxide coming out the stack, you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":713.623,"endTime":717.673,"body":"know, just go and stick your vacuum"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":717.683,"endTime":722.573,"body":"nozzle in the end of that stack"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":717.683,"endTime":722.573,"body":"and suck up that carbon dioxide."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":722.853,"endTime":723.503,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":724.228,"endTime":728.408,"body":"So it's right there and it's"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":724.228,"endTime":728.408,"body":"at higher concentrations."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":728.448,"endTime":734.348,"body":"That does mean you need less"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":728.448,"endTime":734.348,"body":"energy to, to suck it out there"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":734.348,"endTime":735.708,"body":"and capture it and do your stuff."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":735.928,"endTime":737.328,"body":"And that makes it cheaper also."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":738.138,"endTime":741.298,"body":"So we've looked at that"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":738.138,"endTime":741.298,"body":"actually quite hard."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":741.318,"endTime":743.768,"body":"You know, we thought, okay,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":741.318,"endTime":743.768,"body":"we're going to make biofuels."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":743.768,"endTime":745.738,"body":"We're going to make biofuels"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":743.768,"endTime":745.738,"body":"from carbon dioxide."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":745.788,"endTime":747.358,"body":"It's like a win win situation."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":747.728,"endTime":749.688,"body":"So we're going to put"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":747.728,"endTime":749.688,"body":"our biofuel plant down."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":751.073,"endTime":753.343,"body":"Biofuel plants, you know, they're great."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":753.363,"endTime":754.523,"body":"They can be on concrete."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":754.533,"endTime":755.473,"body":"They can be in the desert."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":755.623,"endTime":760.283,"body":"But if you've got to put it next to a"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":755.623,"endTime":760.283,"body":"coal plant, you've got two problems."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":760.573,"endTime":763.673,"body":"One, there might be other"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":760.573,"endTime":763.673,"body":"things next to the coal plant."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":763.683,"endTime":766.313,"body":"They're, they're not usually way"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":763.683,"endTime":766.313,"body":"out in the middle of nowhere."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":766.823,"endTime":772.063,"body":"And then you have the risk the coal"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":766.823,"endTime":772.063,"body":"plant might shut down in a few years."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":772.793,"endTime":779.343,"body":"And it's such a risk for industry to"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":772.793,"endTime":779.343,"body":"build shiny new advanced technology"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":779.343,"endTime":784.133,"body":"to the old 50 year old coal plant"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":779.343,"endTime":784.133,"body":"that, you know, people are out there"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":784.133,"endTime":786.003,"body":"picketing saying we should shut it down."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":786.443,"endTime":790.453,"body":"So, it's great to get it from a"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":786.443,"endTime":790.453,"body":"coal plant, something like that."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":791.123,"endTime":795.743,"body":"The advantage of getting it from"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":791.123,"endTime":795.743,"body":"the air is you can go to a miserable"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":795.753,"endTime":801.243,"body":"place and, because the air is all the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":795.753,"endTime":801.243,"body":"same, and you put your facility there"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":801.553,"endTime":804.693,"body":"it can bring some economic benefit."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":805.683,"endTime":810.673,"body":"And then the other thing is, yeah, it's,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":805.683,"endTime":810.673,"body":"it's much less concentrated in the air,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":811.623,"endTime":815.94,"body":"but, you know, it's like a hundred times"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":811.623,"endTime":815.94,"body":"less or even more than in that coal plant."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":815.96,"endTime":819.18,"body":"So, but it's not a hundred"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":815.96,"endTime":819.18,"body":"times more expensive, it's not"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":819.18,"endTime":820.6,"body":"a hundred times more energy."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":821.11,"endTime":825.72,"body":"You have to blow the air"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":821.11,"endTime":825.72,"body":"over your sticky stuff."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":826.06,"endTime":830.68,"body":"And so, the less concentrated it is,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":826.06,"endTime":830.68,"body":"the more air you have to blow over"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":830.68,"endTime":832.16,"body":"it in order to get the stuff off."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":832.39,"endTime":837.64,"body":"And so it makes the energy, it's"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":832.39,"endTime":837.64,"body":"like 3, 4 times more, which is"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":837.64,"endTime":840.3,"body":"much more than you want it to"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":837.64,"endTime":840.3,"body":"be, but it's not 100 times more."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":840.34,"endTime":845.39,"body":"So, it's possible that"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":840.34,"endTime":845.39,"body":"it's not completely crazy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":847.555,"endTime":852.335,"body":"Okay, and you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":847.555,"endTime":852.335,"body":"biofuel plants there, what's that about?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":880.58,"endTime":885.6700000000001,"body":"Okay, so, you may"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":880.58,"endTime":885.6700000000001,"body":"have other episodes, your listeners may"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":885.6700000000001,"endTime":893.58,"body":"know about biofuels you know, if you make"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":885.6700000000001,"endTime":893.58,"body":"a fuel using biomass somehow, and it's"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":893.62,"endTime":898.08,"body":"still got carbon in it, but it's carbon"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":893.62,"endTime":898.08,"body":"that the little plants captured from the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":898.08,"endTime":901.4100000000001,"body":"air, so it's kind of capturing the air,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":898.08,"endTime":901.4100000000001,"body":"and then you burn it and release it, so"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":901.4100000000001,"endTime":903.6300000000001,"body":"it's, you know, kind of very natural."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":904.0050000000001,"endTime":906.855,"body":"Not net zero, but, but very,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":904.0050000000001,"endTime":906.855,"body":"you know, kind of natural."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":906.855,"endTime":907.8850000000001,"body":"It's going in the right direction."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":908.315,"endTime":908.725,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":909.225,"endTime":913.985,"body":"And a way, if we could get it to"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":909.225,"endTime":913.985,"body":"work really great, and if we could"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":913.985,"endTime":921.245,"body":"make it cheaply, is grow something"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":913.985,"endTime":921.245,"body":"like bacteria or blue green algae"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":922.2600000000001,"endTime":923.61,"body":"and use that to make your fuel."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":923.7700000000001,"endTime":928.46,"body":"We have one kind that actually"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":923.7700000000001,"endTime":928.46,"body":"makes ethanol on its own."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":928.5200000000001,"endTime":931.34,"body":"It just makes it and it floats"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":928.5200000000001,"endTime":931.34,"body":"out into the water and we"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":931.34,"endTime":932.3100000000001,"body":"collect it and there we have it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":932.59,"endTime":937.1,"body":"But these things, you're growing them"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":932.59,"endTime":937.1,"body":"out in the sun in big plastic bags."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":937.85,"endTime":941.5,"body":"They need, they're little plants,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":937.85,"endTime":941.5,"body":"kind of algae bacteria, they"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":941.5,"endTime":943.5100000000001,"body":"need carbon dioxide to grow."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":944.09,"endTime":947.98,"body":"And it's just not enough to just"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":944.09,"endTime":947.98,"body":"have your pool of water with the air."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":948.2600000000001,"endTime":949.95,"body":"You need to pump in carbon dioxide."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":950.08,"endTime":954.5500000000001,"body":"So the idea is, okay, we can get"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":950.08,"endTime":954.5500000000001,"body":"carbon dioxide from a coal plant or"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":954.5500000000001,"endTime":958.48,"body":"we can just capture it from the air"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":954.5500000000001,"endTime":958.48,"body":"and put it in these concentrators"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":958.48,"endTime":959.37,"body":"and get it to the plants."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":960.5400000000001,"endTime":965.5500000000001,"body":"So the, you know, multiple wonderful"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":960.5400000000001,"endTime":965.5500000000001,"body":"things, if this would all be really"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":965.5600000000001,"endTime":967.7600000000001,"body":"cheap, one is you'd be making fuel."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":967.8000000000001,"endTime":971.57,"body":"So you'd have something to do with the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":967.8000000000001,"endTime":971.57,"body":"carbon dioxide that you've captured and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":971.57,"endTime":977.6,"body":"you can sell it, for a profit and you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":971.57,"endTime":977.6,"body":"know, maybe even sort of transition away"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":977.6,"endTime":982.36,"body":"from things like gasoline So you're doing"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":977.6,"endTime":982.36,"body":"something with the carbon dioxide you're"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":982.36,"endTime":987.6800000000001,"body":"doing it out there n some miserable you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":982.36,"endTime":987.6800000000001,"body":"know hazardous waste site, so it's great."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":988.2180000000001,"endTime":993.4280000000001,"body":"A fun thing that we worked on is, okay,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":988.2180000000001,"endTime":993.4280000000001,"body":"we're going to do this, and we're going"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":993.4280000000001,"endTime":997.4280000000001,"body":"to see if we can do it, and also, what"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":993.4280000000001,"endTime":997.4280000000001,"body":"we looked at, we're trying to make"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":997.498,"endTime":1002.3280000000001,"body":"everything cheaper, so you need energy"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":997.498,"endTime":1002.3280000000001,"body":"to capture carbon dioxide from the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1002.3280000000001,"endTime":1006.888,"body":"air and pop it off of there, but you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1002.3280000000001,"endTime":1006.888,"body":"also need energy to make your biofuel."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1007.668,"endTime":1010.008,"body":"And there's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1007.668,"endTime":1010.008,"body":"waste heat and stuff."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1010.0780000000001,"endTime":1013.508,"body":"So can we kind of put these"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1010.0780000000001,"endTime":1013.508,"body":"together and they share their"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1013.508,"endTime":1015.9780000000001,"body":"waste heat and share the energy?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1016.0880000000001,"endTime":1019.1980000000001,"body":"So that it's kind of like a combined"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1016.0880000000001,"endTime":1019.1980000000001,"body":"heat and power system, except it's"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1019.368,"endTime":1022.298,"body":"combined carbon dioxide and fuel system."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1023.128,"endTime":1024.448,"body":"Can we, can we do that?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1024.508,"endTime":1026.838,"body":"Use less energy and then have less cost."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1027.518,"endTime":1028.208,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1028.628,"endTime":1030.888,"body":"So, you know, end of the story is yes."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1031.328,"endTime":1036.928,"body":"But, getting there is…"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1031.328,"endTime":1036.928,"body":"thing is, these are algae."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1037.368,"endTime":1038.758,"body":"These are blue green algae."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1039.098,"endTime":1040.188,"body":"They're living beings."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1040.188,"endTime":1045.728,"body":"So they're just doing their"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1040.188,"endTime":1045.728,"body":"thing in the daytime and in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1045.728,"endTime":1048.723,"body":"night basically they're sleeping."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1049.673,"endTime":1053.0130000000001,"body":"So they don't want any"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1049.673,"endTime":1053.0130000000001,"body":"carbon dioxide at the night."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1053.5230000000001,"endTime":1055.7530000000002,"body":"They want just carbon dioxide in the day."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1056.213,"endTime":1058.203,"body":"But then we, we sit in our model."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1058.203,"endTime":1062.383,"body":"And in fact, in fact, we're, we've built"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1058.203,"endTime":1062.383,"body":"this huge thing to capture carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1062.383,"endTime":1064.393,"body":"from the air and it's really expensive."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1065.823,"endTime":1071.823,"body":"Do we want to shut it down at night"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1065.823,"endTime":1071.823,"body":"and wait for the algae to wake up and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1071.823,"endTime":1076.0330000000001,"body":"then turn it back on, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1071.823,"endTime":1076.0330000000001,"body":"have this sort of circadian rhythm?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1077.103,"endTime":1080.913,"body":"Or do we wanna keep this big"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1077.103,"endTime":1080.913,"body":"carbon capture going day and night?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1081.2730000000001,"endTime":1085.083,"body":"And then you've got your carbon dioxide,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1081.2730000000001,"endTime":1085.083,"body":"and then you're gonna store the carbon"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1085.083,"endTime":1090.9930000000002,"body":"dioxide by refrigerating it overnight,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1085.083,"endTime":1090.9930000000002,"body":"and then you don't have to build as much"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1091.443,"endTime":1094.733,"body":"capacity to make your biofuel plant."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1094.7730000000001,"endTime":1097.323,"body":"So we, we look to this"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1094.7730000000001,"endTime":1097.323,"body":"up, down and sideways."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1097.333,"endTime":1100.343,"body":"It's sort of some of the stuff I do"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1097.333,"endTime":1100.343,"body":"of, you know, designing it different"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1100.343,"endTime":1104.163,"body":"ways, testing out the cost, testing"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1100.343,"endTime":1104.163,"body":"out well, how much energy do we"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1104.163,"endTime":1106.083,"body":"need to store the carbon dioxide?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1106.083,"endTime":1111.373,"body":"And so, Well, you know, our answer for"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1106.083,"endTime":1111.373,"body":"our system was yeah, you should build your"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1111.383,"endTime":1116.7530000000002,"body":"big carbon capture, store it, and then you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1111.383,"endTime":1116.7530000000002,"body":"just feed it to the blue green algae when"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1116.7530000000002,"endTime":1118.143,"body":"they wake up and they're ready for it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1119.813,"endTime":1124.673,"body":"So it's kind of fun, interesting"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1119.813,"endTime":1124.673,"body":"kind of a braided procedure"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1124.703,"endTime":1126.923,"body":"that we, we, we invented."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1128.4180000000001,"endTime":1135.078,"body":"And the biofuel that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1128.4180000000001,"endTime":1135.078,"body":"comes off that is usable by any"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1135.6280000000002,"endTime":1139.598,"body":"vehicle, I want to think, or industrial"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1135.6280000000002,"endTime":1139.598,"body":"process that would normally use"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1139.788,"endTime":1142.848,"body":"petrol or diesel or similar, no?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1142.858,"endTime":1144.198,"body":"Different biofuels."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1145.038,"endTime":1149.553,"body":"People get the idea there's biofuel,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1145.038,"endTime":1149.553,"body":"and it's a thing, and then you protest"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1149.553,"endTime":1151.333,"body":"against it, and it's made from corn."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1151.5230000000001,"endTime":1153.053,"body":"So there are different biofuels."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1154.233,"endTime":1158.113,"body":"One prominent biofuel is ethanol."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1158.473,"endTime":1160.673,"body":"Ethanol, you know, we can drink it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1160.858,"endTime":1164.6280000000002,"body":"It's, it's a safe and one"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1160.858,"endTime":1164.6280000000002,"body":"way to make it is from corn."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1164.6380000000001,"endTime":1165.978,"body":"We do that in the US."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1165.998,"endTime":1170.948,"body":"One way to make it is from molasses"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1165.998,"endTime":1170.948,"body":"and they do that great in Brazil."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1171.258,"endTime":1173.948,"body":"And however, you don't"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1171.258,"endTime":1173.948,"body":"have to use food stuff."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1173.978,"endTime":1177.498,"body":"You can make it from"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1173.978,"endTime":1177.498,"body":"grasses with more trouble."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1177.6380000000001,"endTime":1182.218,"body":"And yeah, we do have one kind of"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1177.6380000000001,"endTime":1182.218,"body":"blue green algae that just makes it,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1182.3880000000001,"endTime":1186.328,"body":"you know, some people have described"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1182.3880000000001,"endTime":1186.328,"body":"it as it's kind of like livestock,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1186.458,"endTime":1192.413,"body":"you know, it's a no kill process"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1186.458,"endTime":1192.413,"body":"we don't kill the blue green algae."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1192.423,"endTime":1195.703,"body":"They just produce, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1192.423,"endTime":1195.703,"body":"livestock, they produce the fuel."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1195.723,"endTime":1196.363,"body":"So you can do that."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1196.613,"endTime":1200.613,"body":"But, if you don't want ethanol, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1196.613,"endTime":1200.613,"body":"maybe you don't want ethanol because"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1200.623,"endTime":1205.163,"body":"you cannot fly an airplane on ethanol,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1200.623,"endTime":1205.163,"body":"maybe you want, like, kerosene, jet fuel."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1205.813,"endTime":1211.613,"body":"So, then, you would have probably"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1205.813,"endTime":1211.613,"body":"a different thing you're growing."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1211.7630000000001,"endTime":1215.603,"body":"It could be a blue green algae, but"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1211.7630000000001,"endTime":1215.603,"body":"you might be going for just making"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1215.9930000000002,"endTime":1219.2630000000001,"body":"as much algae mass as you can."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1219.593,"endTime":1224.7430000000002,"body":"Some of it has oils in it, and then, then"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1219.593,"endTime":1224.7430000000002,"body":"you know, it is a harvesting process."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1224.7430000000002,"endTime":1226.073,"body":"You are taking the algae."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1226.073,"endTime":1229.2630000000001,"body":"So then you're taking the algae,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1226.073,"endTime":1229.2630000000001,"body":"you're taking it out of there, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1229.2630000000001,"endTime":1233.7830000000001,"body":"then you know, getting the oils out,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1229.2630000000001,"endTime":1233.7830000000001,"body":"and you're making what's called a"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1233.7930000000001,"endTime":1238.683,"body":"bio crude from your biomass material."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1238.683,"endTime":1243.5430000000001,"body":"You're making your bio crude, and with"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1238.683,"endTime":1243.5430000000001,"body":"some upgrading, the little secret sauce"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1243.573,"endTime":1245.843,"body":"that isn't completely  wonderful, yeah."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1246.4930000000002,"endTime":1251.343,"body":"You send it to a petroleum refinery, just"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1246.4930000000002,"endTime":1251.343,"body":"like crude oil, and then you can get you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1251.343,"endTime":1256.0330000000001,"body":"know, your jet fuel, your diesel, your"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1251.343,"endTime":1256.0330000000001,"body":"gasoline, your naphtha, out of there."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1256.313,"endTime":1258.313,"body":"So, there are a variety of options."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1260.213,"endTime":1264.563,"body":"You know, we won't be without fuels"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1260.213,"endTime":1264.563,"body":"even if we are without petroleum."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1266.278,"endTime":1272.858,"body":"Great at what cost, as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1266.278,"endTime":1272.858,"body":"in, you know, if you were to look"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1272.858,"endTime":1278.218,"body":"at it, you're in the US, it was a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1272.858,"endTime":1278.218,"body":"gallon of kerosene today versus a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1278.218,"endTime":1280.788,"body":"gallon of bio kerosene, we'll call it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1281.6680000000001,"endTime":1283.078,"body":"How do they compare price wise?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1283.858,"endTime":1287.018,"body":"Okay, so I"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1283.858,"endTime":1287.018,"body":"am not speaking for any company."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1287.3980000000001,"endTime":1293.258,"body":"And I am hoping I am wrong, but  you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1287.3980000000001,"endTime":1293.258,"body":"know, you're doing really good if"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1293.258,"endTime":1299.818,"body":"you can make an aviation fuel, a"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1293.258,"endTime":1299.818,"body":"bio aviation fuel for $5 a gallon."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1300.3680000000002,"endTime":1303.578,"body":"I have to do the conversion to liters."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1303.588,"endTime":1306.718,"body":"So that's north, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1303.588,"endTime":1306.718,"body":"then I'm talking in dollars too."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1306.718,"endTime":1309.428,"body":"I apologize to everyone"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1306.718,"endTime":1309.428,"body":"listening internationally."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1309.6680000000001,"endTime":1311.478,"body":"So let me just stick with $5 a gallon."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1311.478,"endTime":1314.518,"body":"It might be something"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1311.478,"endTime":1314.518,"body":"like 2 euros a liter."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1315.028,"endTime":1316.358,"body":"And that, that would be good."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1316.518,"endTime":1319.298,"body":"I have seen numbers, definitely"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1316.518,"endTime":1319.298,"body":"seen numbers because I have"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1319.318,"endTime":1323.078,"body":"calculated them personally myself"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1319.318,"endTime":1323.078,"body":"8 to 10 dollars, it could be that."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1323.1180000000002,"endTime":1325.1280000000002,"body":"So it's, it's not a good number."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1325.848,"endTime":1330.958,"body":"So it's not what the aviation"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1325.848,"endTime":1330.958,"body":"industry, for example, wants to see."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1332.328,"endTime":1337.078,"body":"That is, you know, getting off on sort"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1332.328,"endTime":1337.078,"body":"of another topic, that, that is a reason"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1337.558,"endTime":1344.7930000000001,"body":"that there isn't a lot of what's called"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1337.558,"endTime":1344.7930000000001,"body":"sustainable aviation fuel available."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1345.363,"endTime":1351.583,"body":"One is, you know, even, even our local"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1345.363,"endTime":1351.583,"body":"airport, Atlanta, Hartsfield Jackson"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1351.643,"endTime":1354.4930000000002,"body":"International Airport, you know,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1351.643,"endTime":1354.4930000000002,"body":"the busiest airport in the world,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1354.913,"endTime":1356.453,"body":"they need a billion gallons a year."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1356.453,"endTime":1359.353,"body":"So, so to have a drop in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1356.453,"endTime":1359.353,"body":"bucket is a very big bucket."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1359.703,"endTime":1362.433,"body":"But also it is expensive."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1363.213,"endTime":1366.4930000000002,"body":"So the attractiveness is nuanced."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1367.633,"endTime":1368.073,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1368.983,"endTime":1376.103,"body":"And, I mean, we've seen the price of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1368.983,"endTime":1376.103,"body":"solar, you know, drop over 99 percent in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1376.113,"endTime":1382.153,"body":"the last decade and similar for wind, not"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1376.113,"endTime":1382.153,"body":"quite 99%, about 80% in wind and battery"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1382.153,"endTime":1384.373,"body":"storage, again, similar numbers there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1385.353,"endTime":1390.938,"body":"But those are processes that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1385.353,"endTime":1390.938,"body":"are quite easy to scale up"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1390.978,"endTime":1392.768,"body":"and therefore drop the price."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1393.548,"endTime":1400.698,"body":"Would the same kind of learning curve"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1393.548,"endTime":1400.698,"body":"apply to the production of biofuels?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1401.7250000000001,"endTime":1403.285,"body":"It's, it's great."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1403.805,"endTime":1407.935,"body":"And you can say now in"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1403.805,"endTime":1407.935,"body":"retrospect, Oh, that was easy."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1407.9450000000002,"endTime":1410.4850000000001,"body":"They were just well set up for scaling."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1410.9650000000001,"endTime":1414.585,"body":"A decade ago, people didn't know that."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1415.305,"endTime":1422.0,"body":"It's really hard to know"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1415.305,"endTime":1422.0,"body":"what technologies can scale."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1422.0700000000002,"endTime":1423.43,"body":"They don't all work."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1423.46,"endTime":1425.24,"body":"Nuclear has not worked well."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1426.5900000000001,"endTime":1430.75,"body":"Biofuels have not worked well, but"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1426.5900000000001,"endTime":1430.75,"body":"there are different kinds of biofuels."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1431.97,"endTime":1436.67,"body":"Manufacturing something has,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1431.97,"endTime":1436.67,"body":"it's been in the manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1436.67,"endTime":1438.13,"body":"where prices have really dropped."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1438.4750000000001,"endTime":1443.185,"body":"And then there are some other obvious"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1438.4750000000001,"endTime":1443.185,"body":"things, like if you can get a cheap"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1443.4850000000001,"endTime":1448.4650000000001,"body":"feedstock, then your product is"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1443.4850000000001,"endTime":1448.4650000000001,"body":"going to be less expensive than if"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1448.4650000000001,"endTime":1450.435,"body":"you have an expensive feedstock."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1450.855,"endTime":1455.845,"body":"So, you know, if we can get, if we can"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1450.855,"endTime":1455.845,"body":"make algae really cheaply, I mean it"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1455.895,"endTime":1460.4850000000001,"body":"should be really cheap, they just grow all"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1455.895,"endTime":1460.4850000000001,"body":"over people's ponds That's a way to go."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1460.615,"endTime":1467.815,"body":"But getting the production down"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1460.615,"endTime":1467.815,"body":"and scaling it by having a lot of"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1467.835,"endTime":1471.035,"body":"them, yes, it brings costs down."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1471.085,"endTime":1476.775,"body":"And another thing to look at is not"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1471.085,"endTime":1476.775,"body":"just bringing the production costs"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1476.775,"endTime":1480.635,"body":"down, but can we make several products?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1481.755,"endTime":1485.075,"body":"That's what petroleum refineries do."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1485.185,"endTime":1489.375,"body":"In fact, sort of the secret is"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1485.185,"endTime":1489.375,"body":"that's how they make their money."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1490.4650000000001,"endTime":1497.105,"body":"They do not make their money on"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1490.4650000000001,"endTime":1497.105,"body":"gasoline, or even gasoline and diesel."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1497.415,"endTime":1501.415,"body":"It's, well, okay, they're making a lot"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1497.415,"endTime":1501.415,"body":"of gasoline, a lot of diesel, a lot"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1501.435,"endTime":1506.017,"body":"of jet fuel, and chemical feedstocks."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1506.287,"endTime":1509.777,"body":"And it's on these chemical feedstocks"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1506.287,"endTime":1509.777,"body":"that you put your whole business"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1509.777,"endTime":1511.297,"body":"together and it works great."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1511.867,"endTime":1516.867,"body":"So that's kind of the idea with, if we"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1511.867,"endTime":1516.867,"body":"want to capture carbon dioxide from the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1516.877,"endTime":1526.702,"body":"air, make fuels, make chemicals, in a kind"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1516.877,"endTime":1526.702,"body":"of biorefinery, and with multiple efforts,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1526.7720000000002,"endTime":1532.002,"body":"bring the cost down, have multiple"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1526.7720000000002,"endTime":1532.002,"body":"products, refine what you're doing build a"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1532.002,"endTime":1536.242,"body":"lot out, possibly there could be success."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1538.077,"endTime":1538.457,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1538.977,"endTime":1539.477,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1540.257,"endTime":1540.607,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1540.607,"endTime":1547.9270000000001,"body":"I got to wonder the fossil fuel"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1540.607,"endTime":1547.9270000000001,"body":"companies that are out there today, their"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1547.9370000000001,"endTime":1553.1470000000002,"body":"reputations have been destroyed by what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1547.9370000000001,"endTime":1553.1470000000002,"body":"they've done knowingly to the planet."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1554.682,"endTime":1559.582,"body":"If this is possible, why wouldn't one"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1554.682,"endTime":1559.582,"body":"of them try and take it on so that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1559.602,"endTime":1565.5520000000001,"body":"they could try and in some way salvage"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1559.602,"endTime":1565.5520000000001,"body":"what's left of their reputations and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1565.752,"endTime":1569.912,"body":"utilize the refineries that they already"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1565.752,"endTime":1569.912,"body":"have in place so they could do it,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1570.122,"endTime":1572.402,"body":"you know, lower cost than anyone else."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1573.5320000000002,"endTime":1573.7920000000001,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1574.5420000000001,"endTime":1581.387,"body":"Well, There are major companies"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1574.5420000000001,"endTime":1581.387,"body":"that are investigating exactly this,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1581.3970000000002,"endTime":1589.237,"body":"like we have our huge infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1581.3970000000002,"endTime":1589.237,"body":"for making fuels and chemicals, can"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1589.237,"endTime":1592.582,"body":"we just get a different feedstock."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1592.632,"endTime":1598.832,"body":"And so, yes, there's active work on that,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1592.632,"endTime":1598.832,"body":"both for getting, so it's, do you get"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1598.832,"endTime":1603.5520000000001,"body":"your carbon dioxide from the air kind of"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1598.832,"endTime":1603.5520000000001,"body":"mechanically through direct air capture?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1603.7920000000001,"endTime":1609.902,"body":"Do you get your carbon from plants, but"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1603.7920000000001,"endTime":1609.902,"body":"just get a different feedstock and then"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1610.5520000000001,"endTime":1615.852,"body":"shoot it into this already cost reduced"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1610.5520000000001,"endTime":1615.852,"body":"infrastructure we have for making fuel."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1615.872,"endTime":1617.392,"body":"So there's a lot of work on that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1618.012,"endTime":1618.332,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1618.5220000000002,"endTime":1619.512,"body":"and it's kind of hard."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1619.612,"endTime":1623.827,"body":"So there's been efforts that"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1619.612,"endTime":1623.827,"body":"have not come to fruition yet."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1623.977,"endTime":1626.103,"body":"Exactly, they're working on that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1627.008,"endTime":1627.3880000000001,"body":"Super."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1627.438,"endTime":1627.688,"body":"Super."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1627.688,"endTime":1632.153,"body":"And what about other alternatives,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1627.688,"endTime":1632.153,"body":"like growing trees and building"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1632.163,"endTime":1635.5230000000001,"body":"with mass timber, which are kind"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1632.163,"endTime":1635.5230000000001,"body":"of natural ways to capture carbon."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1635.5230000000001,"endTime":1640.913,"body":"How do they compare to the high tech"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1635.5230000000001,"endTime":1640.913,"body":"approaches like direct air capture in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1640.913,"endTime":1643.233,"body":"terms of scalability and effectiveness?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1644.173,"endTime":1644.643,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1645.213,"endTime":1645.973,"body":"Effectiveness."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1646.733,"endTime":1649.593,"body":"Growing trees works."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1650.703,"endTime":1653.733,"body":"We know how to do it and we"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1650.703,"endTime":1653.733,"body":"don't even have to do it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1653.7530000000002,"endTime":1656.823,"body":"We just have to let the tree grow."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1657.103,"endTime":1664.833,"body":"The tree sucks in carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1657.103,"endTime":1664.833,"body":"from the atmosphere, from the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1664.863,"endTime":1666.443,"body":"air, and it becomes the tree."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1667.643,"endTime":1670.2730000000001,"body":"So, it's a fabulous solution."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1670.88,"endTime":1679.48,"body":"Will, just taking the earth as a"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1670.88,"endTime":1679.48,"body":"whole, will we have more trees,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1679.53,"endTime":1681.93,"body":"more tree mass on the planet?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1682.31,"endTime":1684.67,"body":"How can we ensure that?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1684.81,"endTime":1690.8,"body":"How can we make sure that, you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1684.81,"endTime":1690.8,"body":"know, if a forest products company,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1691.49,"endTime":1693.5700000000002,"body":"says here, we're growing trees."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1693.5700000000002,"endTime":1695.06,"body":"We're sequestering carbon."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1695.31,"endTime":1697.88,"body":"Okay, but they're cutting"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1695.31,"endTime":1697.88,"body":"down the other trees here."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1698.31,"endTime":1704.535,"body":"So, so the challenge of growing more"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1698.31,"endTime":1704.535,"body":"trees is we need to get it just like with"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1704.535,"endTime":1707.255,"body":"all these other solutions up to scale."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1708.145,"endTime":1710.425,"body":"There's some great ideas"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1708.145,"endTime":1710.425,"body":"like even in pasture."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1711.2150000000001,"endTime":1714.255,"body":"If, if your listeners have"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1711.2150000000001,"endTime":1714.255,"body":"pasture, consider growing"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1714.255,"endTime":1715.665,"body":"more trees in your pasture."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1715.815,"endTime":1717.415,"body":"Your livestock may enjoy it."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1717.605,"endTime":1721.415,"body":"You'll capture some carbon,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1717.605,"endTime":1721.415,"body":"but that's one or 20 trees."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1721.885,"endTime":1724.825,"body":"So it's a, it's a great option."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1725.4850000000001,"endTime":1734.8500000000001,"body":"It's, it's scalable and you can even"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1725.4850000000001,"endTime":1734.8500000000001,"body":"have successful forest products in a"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1734.8500000000001,"endTime":1737.25,"body":"situation of having more standing biomass."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1737.3700000000001,"endTime":1744.1000000000001,"body":"You can harvest the trees repeatedly and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1737.3700000000001,"endTime":1744.1000000000001,"body":"then, as you mentioned, there's some uses"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1744.2,"endTime":1749.8300000000002,"body":"of trees by people that pretty quickly"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1744.2,"endTime":1749.8300000000002,"body":"put the carbon back in the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1749.88,"endTime":1752.77,"body":"You know, the most obvious one is burning."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1752.78,"endTime":1755.52,"body":"That's what many people"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1752.78,"endTime":1755.52,"body":"worldwide use for cooking."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1755.52,"endTime":1759.46,"body":"They burn the tree and it puts"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1755.52,"endTime":1759.46,"body":"the carbon back in the atmosphere,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1759.46,"endTime":1761.03,"body":"but then the trees regrow."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1761.03,"endTime":1763.26,"body":"It's kind of a closed cycle."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1763.8200000000002,"endTime":1770.015,"body":"However, another thing, that also"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1763.8200000000002,"endTime":1770.015,"body":"humans have been doing for thousands of"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1770.025,"endTime":1774.675,"body":"years is use trees to build our houses."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1774.675,"endTime":1779.065,"body":"You can use trees to build other"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1774.675,"endTime":1779.065,"body":"things like furniture, but the houses"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1779.075,"endTime":1783.9850000000001,"body":"have a, the houses and the buildings,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1779.075,"endTime":1783.9850000000001,"body":"they have a lot of mass in them."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1784.355,"endTime":1789.8700000000001,"body":"And if that's wood, Your"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1784.355,"endTime":1789.8700000000001,"body":"building is sequestering carbon."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1790.71,"endTime":1796.1200000000001,"body":"So, one of the things that we've"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1790.71,"endTime":1796.1200000000001,"body":"looked at recently in fact, in the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1796.3700000000001,"endTime":1803.23,"body":"state of Georgia, where we have a lot"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1796.3700000000001,"endTime":1803.23,"body":"of forest and elsewhere, is can we"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1803.6100000000001,"endTime":1808.31,"body":"use more wood in making buildings."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1808.9,"endTime":1814.38,"body":"Not only relatively small"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1808.9,"endTime":1814.38,"body":"buildings, houses, but big"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1814.38,"endTime":1816.93,"body":"buildings, office buildings."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1817.2,"endTime":1818.56,"body":"And we can."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1819.3300000000002,"endTime":1822.3400000000001,"body":"And there are two benefits to that."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1822.47,"endTime":1828.15,"body":"One is, yeah, you, you have, you've"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1822.47,"endTime":1828.15,"body":"grown your tree, you've, sometimes it's"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1828.17,"endTime":1833.8,"body":"cross laminated timber is used to make it"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1828.17,"endTime":1833.8,"body":"really strong as, as a building material."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1833.8300000000002,"endTime":1834.5900000000001,"body":"So then you've."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1835.22,"endTime":1838.44,"body":"You're, you're keeping carbon"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1835.22,"endTime":1838.44,"body":"in that building for the life of"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1838.47,"endTime":1842.137,"body":"the building, and even sometimes"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1838.47,"endTime":1842.137,"body":"afterwards sometimes that material"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1842.137,"endTime":1843.457,"body":"can be reused in another building."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1843.477,"endTime":1846.207,"body":"So you're, you've got"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1843.477,"endTime":1846.207,"body":"carbon in your building."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1846.217,"endTime":1848.9070000000002,"body":"That's how we're getting"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1846.217,"endTime":1848.9070000000002,"body":"carbon out of the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1848.9070000000002,"endTime":1850.6470000000002,"body":"We're putting it in our building."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1850.977,"endTime":1857.892,"body":"And, Another benefit is that your"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1850.977,"endTime":1857.892,"body":"wood there is substituting for steel."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1857.892,"endTime":1857.992,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1859.2720000000002,"endTime":1862.392,"body":"Steel has"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1859.2720000000002,"endTime":1862.392,"body":"there are a lot of emissions of"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1862.392,"endTime":1864.482,"body":"carbon dioxide in making steel."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1864.892,"endTime":1869.8020000000001,"body":"So, much less than growing a tree and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1864.892,"endTime":1869.8020000000001,"body":"even making the cross laminated timber."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1869.912,"endTime":1875.612,"body":"So you've got two benefits and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1869.912,"endTime":1875.612,"body":"well, I'll just advocate for"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1875.612,"endTime":1877.642,"body":"something we should do more of that."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1877.672,"endTime":1884.3220000000001,"body":"We can have more wood material"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1877.672,"endTime":1884.3220000000001,"body":"in buildings as a really long"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1884.372,"endTime":1890.332,"body":"lasting way of saving the good"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1884.372,"endTime":1890.332,"body":"work that the trees have done."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1891.612,"endTime":1891.962,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1891.962,"endTime":1900.037,"body":"And again with using wood in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1891.962,"endTime":1900.037,"body":"buildings, how well does that scale?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1900.057,"endTime":1904.227,"body":"And if I'm asking that, what I mean"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1900.057,"endTime":1904.227,"body":"by that is, you know, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1904.227,"endTime":1908.267,"body":"yourself, it's, it's fine for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1904.227,"endTime":1908.267,"body":"smaller buildings, like households."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1908.577,"endTime":1912.137,"body":"But you mentioned office buildings,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1908.577,"endTime":1912.137,"body":"are we talking two, three story office"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1912.137,"endTime":1914.377,"body":"buildings or can it go much taller?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1914.6970000000001,"endTime":1921.767,"body":"You know, how, how much can we really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1914.6970000000001,"endTime":1921.767,"body":"substitute wood into larger buildings?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1922.8120000000001,"endTime":1923.182,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1923.8120000000001,"endTime":1926.972,"body":"So here I am slightly beyond my knowledge."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1927.002,"endTime":1931.382,"body":"I do not know what is the maximum size"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1927.002,"endTime":1931.382,"body":"of a building that could be mass timber,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1931.752,"endTime":1937.762,"body":"but there are, you know, 8, 7, 8 story"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1931.752,"endTime":1937.762,"body":"buildings, multiple ones you know, we"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1937.762,"endTime":1942.252,"body":"have really nice buildings down in Ponce"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1937.762,"endTime":1942.252,"body":"City Market in Atlanta mass timber."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1942.512,"endTime":1947.242,"body":"So, these are big"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1942.512,"endTime":1947.242,"body":"commercial scale buildings."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1947.8120000000001,"endTime":1949.092,"body":"Okay, cool."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1949.452,"endTime":1949.692,"body":"Fine."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1951.142,"endTime":1953.662,"body":"kind of left field question."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1955.612,"endTime":1961.012,"body":"If we were to fast forward 50 years"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1955.612,"endTime":1961.012,"body":"into the future, what do you think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1961.012,"endTime":1965.602,"body":"would surprise people the most"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1961.012,"endTime":1965.602,"body":"about how we solved or failed to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1965.602,"endTime":1967.942,"body":"solve our current climate crisis?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1967.942,"endTime":1969.922,"body":"Where do you see the biggest"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1967.942,"endTime":1969.922,"body":"breakthroughs coming from?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1971.068,"endTime":1976.4080000000001,"body":"Okay I was"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1971.068,"endTime":1976.4080000000001,"body":"surprised when solar got so cheap."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1976.6180000000002,"endTime":1979.938,"body":"I was surprised when we figured"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1976.6180000000002,"endTime":1979.938,"body":"out how to do fracking of oil and"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1979.938,"endTime":1981.838,"body":"natural gas so cheap, actually."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1982.088,"endTime":1985.828,"body":"I was surprised by batteries"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1982.088,"endTime":1985.828,"body":"being cheap and wind being cheap."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1986.098,"endTime":1996.088,"body":"So, one is we're gonna be surprised"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1986.098,"endTime":1996.088,"body":"by something else, I don't have the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1996.108,"endTime":2000.998,"body":"prediction of what that is, but the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":1996.108,"endTime":2000.998,"body":"other thing I think will surprise us,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2001.048,"endTime":2009.688,"body":"because it's more obvious to me, is that"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2001.048,"endTime":2009.688,"body":"there will be changes in what people do."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2010.778,"endTime":2016.018,"body":"We get kind of fixed on thinking,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2010.778,"endTime":2016.018,"body":"okay, the way I do it now, first"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2016.018,"endTime":2017.348,"body":"of all, it's probably the best."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2017.548,"endTime":2018.598,"body":"It's the best way."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2018.858,"endTime":2024.238,"body":"And then even if it isn't the best"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2018.858,"endTime":2024.238,"body":"way, how could I possibly do something"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2024.238,"endTime":2027.6180000000002,"body":"differently given my life and my kids"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2024.238,"endTime":2027.6180000000002,"body":"and everything that's happening and the"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2027.6180000000002,"endTime":2029.728,"body":"need for people to drive into their jobs."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2029.738,"endTime":2035.248,"body":"So I think we're going to be surprised"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2029.738,"endTime":2035.248,"body":"that some people will start doing some"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2035.248,"endTime":2043.788,"body":"things that we're really surprised that"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2035.248,"endTime":2043.788,"body":"they do that will be cheap and will just"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2044.348,"endTime":2050.8579999999997,"body":"solve like, let's go for it, a third,"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2044.348,"endTime":2050.8579999999997,"body":"a third of the climate problem will be"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2050.948,"endTime":2057.808,"body":"solved by just a different cool way that"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2050.948,"endTime":2057.808,"body":"people want to go about what they're"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2057.808,"endTime":2061.398,"body":"doing that isn't emitting a lot of carbon."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2063.028,"endTime":2067.045,"body":"Okay, super, great, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2063.028,"endTime":2067.045,"body":"to hear we are coming towards the end"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2067.045,"endTime":2072.375,"body":"of the podcast now, Valerie, is there"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2067.045,"endTime":2072.375,"body":"any question I did not ask that you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2072.375,"endTime":2076.955,"body":"wish I did, or any aspect of this we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2072.375,"endTime":2076.955,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2076.955,"endTime":2079.085,"body":"important to make people aware of?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2079.802,"endTime":2080.862,"body":"Well, all right."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2081.442,"endTime":2083.052,"body":"I work on hard problems."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2083.362,"endTime":2085.1820000000002,"body":"You know, I'm a researcher."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2085.332,"endTime":2086.402,"body":"That's what I do."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2086.402,"endTime":2091.6620000000003,"body":"I work on problems on things that seem"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2086.402,"endTime":2091.6620000000003,"body":"like they're really not going to work."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2091.722,"endTime":2094.342,"body":"Like, Valerie, why are"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2091.722,"endTime":2094.342,"body":"you working on that?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2094.342,"endTime":2095.342,"body":"It's so stupid."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2095.482,"endTime":2098.572,"body":"But you know, I work on these things"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2095.482,"endTime":2098.572,"body":"to, to try to make them better."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2098.9120000000003,"endTime":2105.122,"body":"I do want to underscore that through"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2098.9120000000003,"endTime":2105.122,"body":"working on these really hard things."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2105.622,"endTime":2112.387,"body":"It's made me so much more"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2105.622,"endTime":2112.387,"body":"receptive to just simple stuff."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2113.2670000000003,"endTime":2118.377,"body":"Like you know, rather than we have to"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2113.2670000000003,"endTime":2118.377,"body":"build this, we do need to build this huge"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2118.407,"endTime":2124.3070000000002,"body":"machinery and capture carbon dioxide from"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2118.407,"endTime":2124.3070000000002,"body":"the air and pop it off and try to make"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2124.317,"endTime":2128.527,"body":"biofuels and we're really making sludge"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2124.317,"endTime":2128.527,"body":"and we've got to make our, our fuel out of"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2128.527,"endTime":2137.757,"body":"sludge, just some, just go ahead and you"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2128.527,"endTime":2137.757,"body":"know, I, for instance, just in complete"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2137.757,"endTime":2142.5370000000003,"body":"frustration, I just, I take the bus"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2137.757,"endTime":2142.5370000000003,"body":"and taking the bus is really fun to do."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2142.5370000000003,"endTime":2145.187,"body":"I learn more about my neighborhood"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2142.5370000000003,"endTime":2145.187,"body":"and where the buses are."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2145.717,"endTime":2151.657,"body":"So, there are all these"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2145.717,"endTime":2151.657,"body":"technical solutions work."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2153.577,"endTime":2155.697,"body":"But there's a whole bunch of choices."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2155.937,"endTime":2159.817,"body":"So I'd like to just point out to"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2155.937,"endTime":2159.817,"body":"people, you could do some of them"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2159.817,"endTime":2163.007,"body":"and save some money or get some more"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2159.817,"endTime":2163.007,"body":"exercise, do something like that."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2163.347,"endTime":2164.217,"body":"It's not that bad."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2165.117,"endTime":2165.727,"body":"Okay, great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2166.377,"endTime":2166.737,"body":"Super."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2166.7670000000003,"endTime":2170.297,"body":"Valerie, if people would like to know"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2166.7670000000003,"endTime":2170.297,"body":"more about yourself or any of the things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2170.297,"endTime":2173.347,"body":"we discussed on the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2170.297,"endTime":2173.347,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2174.5570000000002,"endTime":2177.857,"body":"So, I'm"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2174.5570000000002,"endTime":2177.857,"body":"at Georgia Tech and so they"},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2177.867,"endTime":2179.747,"body":"can find my website there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2181.297,"endTime":2181.667,"body":"Super."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2181.967,"endTime":2184.5570000000002,"body":"Shoot me across the link and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2181.967,"endTime":2184.5570000000002,"body":"I'll include it in the show notes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2184.5570000000002,"endTime":2185.797,"body":"so everyone has access to it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2186.027,"endTime":2186.327,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2186.8070000000002,"endTime":2187.087,"body":"Valerie."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2187.087,"endTime":2187.937,"body":"That's been really interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2187.937,"endTime":2189.727,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2187.937,"endTime":2189.727,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2190.707,"endTime":2191.277,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Prof Valerie Thomas","startTime":2191.277,"endTime":2192.727,"body":"This was really fun."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2194.6530000000002,"endTime":2196.523,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2194.6530000000002,"endTime":2196.523,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2197.243,"endTime":2198.353,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2199.213,"endTime":2203.363,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2199.213,"endTime":2203.363,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2203.373,"endTime":2207.283,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2207.533,"endTime":2211.013,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2211.583,"endTime":2215.323,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2211.583,"endTime":2215.323,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2215.343,"endTime":2219.823,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2215.343,"endTime":2219.823,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2220.453,"endTime":2223.413,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2220.453,"endTime":2223.413,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2223.613,"endTime":2226.143,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2223.613,"endTime":2226.143,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2227.233,"endTime":2227.683,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2228.353,"endTime":2229.273,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}